Electric cars operate very quietly, which is one of the strong selling points to drivers who appreciate silence. Visually impaired pedestrians and other road occupants such as bicyclists however, rely on the sound of combustion engines to negotiate safely.
As such, blind advocacy groups have been working with automakers for two years to reach a consensus on whether and how electric cars should be equipped with sounds. Recetnly an agreement was reached.
Automakers will equip their electric cars with audible pedestrian alert signals that will not be driver activated. These chirping sounds would automatically be emitted when the car operates at low speeds to let pedestrians know that it is nearby.
When the first generation Volt goes on sale later this year it will be equipped with a manually activated pedestrian alert, however when the new agreement goes into effect, the sound will have to be automatic. Nissan has equipped the electric LEAF with an automated chirp.
“Bruup, bruup” is how Micky Bly, GM’s executive director for hybrid electric vehicles and batteries imitates the sound that will be made by the Chevy Volt. The manually toggled stalk will sound “like the low tone of a horn, but nonstartling.”
Mark Perry, marketing director for Nissan said the LEAFs’ sound will be revealed to the public next week in Japan. Earlier reports indicated it would sound like the flying cars in the movie Blade Runner. “It’s a little too early to disclose it, but when we do you’ll understand the work that went into it from our audio guys,” said Perry.
The often proposed idea of downloadable ring tones for electric cars cars seems unlikely. ”We do hate the idea of ring tones,” said Chris Danielsen, a spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind, . “We think manufacturers should decide the sound or set of sounds, and drivers should not able to alter them willy-nilly.”
The electric car sound measure is incorporated in the Motor Safety Act of 2010 which was already proposed in congress and is expected to be ratified into law by the end of summer.
A group of auto trade groups in cooperation with the National Federation for the Blind sent a letter to Congress stating the new law would “will help to ensure the safety of pedestrians, especially those who are blind, as an increasing number of hybrid and electric vehicles are sold.”
The new legislation would require the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration to begin drafting the requirements within 18 months and the rule would have to be finalized within three years.
David Strickland who is the director of the NHTSA said his agency is reviewing the agreement which will also be extended to hybrids.
“Our analysis of limited data from 12 states shows that hybrid electric vehicles do have a significantly higher incidence rate of pedestrian crashes than internal combustion engines,” he said.
Source (Detroit News) and (New York Times)
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:01 am)I guess in a post-apocalyptical world when we are all blinded by the flash it will handy..
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1037705/
Can we go back to our regular fuel cell discussions?
+5
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:02 am)These chirping sounds would automatically be emitted when the car operates at low speeds to let pedestrians know that it is nearby.
Ouch.
+23
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:04 am)One more reason to get a GEN1 Volt.
NPNS!
+17
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:07 am)I would like to see that data……
IMHO, this is just more bureaucratic over regulation…..
Maybe this would be important in a few large cities, but in most of the country, how many blind people are out for a stroll?????
-19
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:22 am)(click to show comment)
+39
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:24 am)These days, many cars hardly make any noise at low speeds. Should they make “chirping” sounds as well? What about the deaf people. Should an automatic arm pop out of the hood and give sign language? Like a previous poster said, all the more reason to own a first gen Volt.
+19
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:24 am)These guy,s have it all wrong every body knows what you do is take a playing card and a close pin you clip the card on the fender so the card rubs on the tire any time the car moves ! simple !
Tom
+38
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:26 am)A traffic jam with hundreds of cars imitating Blade Runner within earshot could be maddening.
+54
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:33 am)I understand the reasoning behind this but it makes me a little sad. We are artifically adding sound to vehicles, after manufacturers have spent 100 years making cars quieter.
And now every morning, when I go to work at 5 a.m., my new e-car is going to “beep-beep-beep” it’s way out of my garage. My wife is going to hate that. Then I’m going to slowly “beep-beep-beep” through my neighborhood. My neighbors are going to hate that. This could actually hurt electric car adoption.
+4
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:37 am)I’m wondering what hundreds of cars all chirping in near proximity will sound like and how often the car will chirp. I can see the benefits were beeping is overkill; such as moving slowly though an area where people just walk this way or that (such as though school grounds).
Would it chirp if you are stopped but may start to move soon (such as stopped at traffic lights where people are crossing in front of you)?
+35
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:43 am)So BEV’s and Gen II Volts will have to make noise but your average Lexus will operate just as quietly as a Gen I Volt but not be required to have a noise generator?
Irritating but acceptable if the volume of the slow speed beep is low enough. But there is no way in hell it will be acceptable if it is loud enough for a bicyclist wearing a helmet to hear at any distance. I can just imagine irritating delivery truck back-up beeps multiplying like a plague across the land as we buy our Volt’s and Leaf’s with this warning tone built in…
Maybe the sleep deprived can sue to have the low speed tones outlawed due to the fact that it would infringe upon their right to a peaceful sleep?
+45
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:48 am)It stands to reason that this “Bruup” sound will be emitted by a speaker of some sort…
Good thing I have a wire cutter. =]
+10
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:51 am)What about Hybirds?, they are silent up to 35-40mph?
Seems like a back room washington deal to further hamper EV sales and keep Big Oil alive
+5
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:58 am)Please oh please make it sound like the Jetson’s car!
http://www.entertonement.com/clips/sdgzbvrcwj–Jetsons-CarThe-Jetsons-
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:05 am)They are clearly applying this to both electric and hybrids.
“will help to ensure the safety of pedestrians, especially those who are blind, as an increasing number of hybrid
and electric vehicles are sold.”
Did you read the post? Maybe your coffee is still brewing?
+7
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:11 am)I would suspect they will use a piezoelectric speakers to generate the “chip”. These are much less expensive and more robust for making alert sounds.
But, I will bet that many will find a way to disarm or at least quiet them.
So, will we now have to setup a new govt run program, where you bring your car in and have them verify the decibel range of your electric/hybrid? Kind of like the similiar and useless emissions testing stations that costs us millions to operate every year.
+24
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:13 am)This could be really bad for EVs. One of the great joys of electric cars is their quiet ride. Some kind of artificial noise at low speeds would virtually eliminate the joy of driving the car. For me, the Gen I Volt is now probably the only EV I would want to own.
+29
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:14 am)Sadly, when something new comes along, folks try to make it like the old so they will not have to change. Beepers on EV’s fall into that category. Just how long living in the past will endure is anybodies guess, they still sell ties at Men’s stores.
Maybe we should outlaw head sets and ear plugs because they defeat the idea of EV beepers.
Silence is golden, our urban areas are noisy with sirens, aircraft, trash trucks and street sweepers.
And now our nanny government is going to mandate more noise. Great, just great.
+10
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:16 am)Generating some sort of noise when the electric car is backing up would be my first concern.
No engine noise AND not expecting movement in that direction is when you could catch people, children playing in the driveway, the cat, etc… by surprise.
+34
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:21 am)Are you kidding me!? Like I want to listen to my car act like the garbage truck. EV’s will be the laughing stock of the autos. Hey, dude, where did you get the toy beeper.
Come on, most new cars are so silent you can’t hear them anyway. I had to put my hand on my father in laws hood of his 2009 Altima to know if it was running. He had left it running while walking into the hospital and I noticed his lights were still on. I walked over to the car to see if it was running and had to put my hand on the hood and listen very closely to see if it was idling. Sure enough, it was. But take the point to exemplify just how quiet the modern car is. I do not want some beeping side show.
Hawk
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:26 am)Oh, and I really wonder if the mandate will require that the vehicle has its own decibel monitoring system. This would verify that the car is indeed, emitting a chirp of the correct decibels. If the monitor detects loss or low decibel sound, it would then disable the vehicle!
This sounds extreme, but when you put a bunch of safety dudes in a room and they start discussing all the variables and outcomes, they will always play the “safe card”. They know people will attempt to circumvent the noise generators, and will put something in place to highly discourage the practice.
-7
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:28 am)No. Not kidding at all.
What alerts people/animals that the car is getting ready to move is starter engagement (not necessarilly the engine itself) which will, of course, be absent with the electric car.
+6
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:33 am)Ok no one seams to like the idea of more noise so lets equip those interested with a detector that will give them a warning when ever EV,s are near. ( picture a shock collar for the politicians )
Tom
+13
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:33 am)It’s not going to be a problem. Nobody is going to buy a car that sounds like a garbage truck. (Remember that it is the same government agencies making the rule, and for the same purpose.) When the car starts up in the dealer’s lot to go for the test drive, that will be the end of that buyer’s interest.
It’s sad, as the dream of a quiet car was such a good dream while it lasted, but at least the problem of insufficient supply will be solved. Any one of us who want to sound like a dork will be able to easily find one, and the dealer will be eager to get rid of it.
+4
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:34 am)Most new ICE cars are sufficiently quiet that they cannot be heard under these conditions. Cyclists need to be sure they can be seen by car drivers. The most dangerous situation is at night and I have greatly appreciated seeing blinking LEDs on cyclists back packs or bicycles on the side of the road. I am sure these save lives. However sound will not make any difference. Cyclists on the road side hear vehicles coming all the time. They do not get off the road each time for two logical reasons. One there is very little time to do so, the car speed is much greater and only allows a couple of seconds for the cyclist to react. The second is that the cyclist depends on the driver to avoid him.
If a cyclist wants to cross the road or go into the traffic they must look first, depending on sound would be suicidal as I said most new cars are very quiet now. Adding sound is not going to make any difference to cyclists.
I agree there may be some value for the blind. Blind people do not ride bicycles. Rather than have this sound on at all times at slow speed, I think it would be best if it was integrated with a radar sensor detecting objects/people in the car’s path. I know not all cars have this feature, but a new sound is always more attention-getting than repetitive sounds that may be coming from many cars in the vicinity, most of which are not moving towards the pedestrian.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:37 am)Put cards in the spokes.
Seriously, give it the same pitch and timbre as an ICE and people shouldn’t mind too much. Okay, how ’bout this: Make it the same pitch as the generator motor. Cycle it on and off in reciprocal fashion (it shuts off when the gen motor starts). Volt sounds almost the same all the time.
-15
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:40 am)(click to show comment)
+20
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:42 am)I think this is a real shame.
What I think most people don’t realize is many of the new cars, especially luxury models are extermenly quiet at low speeds. The only time the cars makes much noise is under heavy acceleration. Car makers have spent millions trying to make thier cars quiet and have done a great job of it.
Criusing around areas where there are pedestrians at 30-35mph and these cars are coasting(not under acceleration) they are practically silent and just as quiet as an EV. The only thing you hear are the tires on the pavement.
I ride my bike all the time and I don’t rely on whether I heard a car or not before I turn, I LOOK! I can’t hear any car until it’s right on top of my anyway.
The person driving the car has the obligation to be aware of thier surroundings and not hit people regardless of the propulsion system of the car they are driving.
+9
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:48 am)I don’t understand why we need to have the car make an audible noise. I don’t see why we can’t have a beacon installed in the car and sell a devise to the blind/bikers that vibrates when a car is approaching. Sound is obnoxious, tactile feedback is 100 times better, for instance I would much rather have my phone on vibrate then have everyone around me listen to some stupid ring tone.
+29
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:51 am)On the other hand, people (sighted or not) can be seriously injured by cyclists approaching rapidly but too quietly. Clearly the government should extend the rule to include bicycles.
+8
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:52 am)I think the best idea presented so far is a device that can be carried by the blind person to alert him/her of an approaching vehicle. It would have to be some small radar type device that could differentiate speed and direction to create an alarm. This would work for all vehicles not just EVs. The benefit would be just for the people who wanted it, and not annoying to those who don’t.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:52 am)If my EV has to emit sound, I’ll take one of these set to V8…imagine the confusion it would cause.
http://www.soundracer.se/
+8
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:53 am)I find this need for artificial “noise” needed to be a crock of …..
To add to the quote above… the cars that go by on my street 30 mph or less are VERY QUIET and they are ALL ICE cars. The only noise one hears are the tires ….. maybe.
Trucks tend to be noisier.
As noted most cars built in the last few years are very quiet at low speed….. even on crowded streets.
So…… if this is such a “big deal” then CHIRPY needs to be on all cars.
Now that will sound just great on my quiet street and just think about in a city. (even before everyone goes electric)
+22
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:56 am)I think I speak for many when I say `this is bullshit`
This better not apply in Canada, or I`ll find a way to disable the module myself.
The whole point of an electric car is
1) No gas
2) Great torque
3) No noise
I hate noisy cars as I have to listen to them day in and day out through my window.
An electric car would be so peaceful. But no, we seem to need to make more noise just for the hell of it.
Here`s a thought, cyclists! And I know, it`s a pretty complex one. Probably never thought of before. It`s called looking around to identify your surroundings, including vehicles. Difficult, I know.
Blind people, I totally understand. However, the number of blind people compared to the potential number of EV owners is ridiculously low. How about a simple rfid broadcast?
If you’re blind, you get a free necklace/pocket/whatever RFID receiver that will vibrate when within range of the EV.
Voila. Works for the deaf too.
And hey, even with a car that beeps for the hell of it, it’s not going to stop people from just stepping off the sidewalk in front of you. You as the driver should be alert and ready to stop in any situation.
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:57 am)To be clear,
As others have mentioned, most new cars are very quiet. I don’t see how there’s that much difference in between a Volt and many other new cars cruising at low speeds.
But when the car is shifted into reverse, … you’re going to want some sort of noise happening there.
+9
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:59 am)You people are acting like there is no driver, or the driver is incompetent. Any driver who does not try to avoid hitting pedestrians or is sufficiently clueless that small children may unpredictably walk in front of a moving car should not be allowed to have a license. These small children will not understand or react to the noise generated anyway.
-3
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:02 am)As an added thought to my earlier post about radar in the car detecting pedestrian traffic. If such a sophisticated radar system is developed, not only should it activate the horn, but should automatically apply the brakes.
-16
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:04 am)(click to show comment)
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:05 am)Fortunately i see no news of this happening in europe/england. Have fun with it my american friends!!
+8
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:08 am)YUP YUP and YUP!
PLUS many of the bike riders I pass, with a wide berth, are wearing white earphones anyway.
So maybe a cannon sound or jet aircraft taking off sound will be needed so they could adequately hear my new electric car ( or my current ICE car) when it passes by. (I love the V-8 idea or maybe a Big Diesel truck sound)
BTW it is not really a “Nanny Gov.” but rather lawmakers PRESSURED by some “NANNY VOTERS” who want you to live your life their way because they know what is “best for you”
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:13 am)canehdian, I have not seen a post by you for a long time. I had a response for you that I am not sure if you read it.
“Looks like GM just lost my sale.
I hate onstar as it is and giving it this capability just became a dealbreaker.”
You will have to give permission to the Utility to disrupt your service. The whole program is set up around the concept that you give the utility a time you want your car charged by. The utility then charges your car at times when the cost of electricity is lowest. If you agree to the plan, you can save money. You can always not agree and just pay whatever rate applies. The decision on which days this agreement can be applied can be changed at any time.
The key word here is that the Volt will have this capability, but that does not translate to your being stuck with it.
+7
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:16 am)So rather than ban dangerous drivers, you just want to piss off everyone else? you are also talking about different groups of people.
1. Blind people. unless they have hearing difficulty, they will still hear EV’s because of tyre noise. if they are blind AND have hearing difficulty, they should only use proper pedestrian crossings. As for drivers reversing out of driveways and things, well, that is just poor driving. i ALWAYS reverse in, as the highway code requires on a main road.
2. non blind people. These people can SEE you from a LONG way away. they can also hear your tyre noise. here we teach our children, STOP, LOOK and LISTEN. we also tell them to use pedestrian crossings whenever possible. I know a family whose child was killed by a rubbish truck. It beeped, it had a huge diesel engine, and even a rear view camera. it didn’t stop the kid climbing behind a wheel to hide.
I say don’t put on any beeps, and let darwin take effect.
I would not be at all suprised to find oil money somewhere behind these “consumer groups” worrying about EV noise.
-1
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:18 am)Jim I wrote:
“Maybe this would be important in a few large cities, but in most of the country, how many blind people are out for a stroll?????”
……………………………………………………………………..
Drop the stereotypes and return to reality.
I’m legally blind, live in a small town in the mountains of NC, teach history at the local college, and walk 3 miles each day to try to keep in shape. Even though my Doberman Pinscher is my guide dog I still rely on hearing a car to make sure I’m out of its way.
Before losing my vision I spent 18 years in the retail automotive business. I understand the auto business better than most on this forum. To see comments like many I’ve read today disregarding my safety and the safety of others with visual impairments is insulting at the least.
+6
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:18 am)I agree with you Roy.
There is a “certain amount of responsibility” expected from each driver. In fact are not drivers supposed to be licensed, taken driving classes, taken tests etc. to demonstrate they are competent to reasonably operate a vehicle.
And is this not the requirement for every driver that drives a car on our roads….. or is it being implied that electric car drivers will need to more or fewer driving rules.
Just because a driver starts driving an electric does not mean they have suddenly become incompetent when behind the wheel.
-19
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:18 am)(click to show comment)
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:29 am)It should sound like the interior of the TARDIS when materialized, or better yet, the transporter room from Star Trek the original series.
+6
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:34 am)Everybody here knows you aren’t serious with these idiotic posts. Have your fun little boy, most will just ignore your ploy to bait them. Why don’t you suggest a train whistle while your’re at it!
+5
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:34 am)Nice to hear from someone with actual experience.
Do you cross a road based solely on hearing?
How do you deal with new quiet cars?
Would you think it unreasonable to carry some sort of detector as suggested by some here?
Is your desire for noisier cars just a re-assurance factor or critical?
I am sympathetic to your concerns, but wish clarification to see if some other solution could be better.
+6
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:34 am)If this is SUCH a BIG concern why have you not advocated this add on to all quiet ICE cars too … or… are we detecting a BIAS ( hidden agenda etc) about the VOLT and other electric cars?
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:35 am)Wait, how does the National HIGHWAY traffic safety administration get a say in this? Are blind people walking around on the HIGHWAY? My local taxes pay for my local roads and I want to opt out of this.
If anything there should be a switch in the car so that you decide LOCALLY if you want your car to emit the sound on your roads.
+4
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:36 am)Wait, how does the National HIGHWAY traffic safety administration get a say in this? Are blind people walking around on the HIGHWAY? My local taxes pay for my local roads and I want to opt out of this.
If anything, there should be a switch in the car so that you decide LOCALLY if you want your car to emit the sound on your roads.
+15
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:38 am)Let’s be realistic about this. People choose to take the chance at riding a dangerous 2 wheeled bicycle (without seat belts). It’s not mandated. They choose to bicycle. I ride a Ninja motorcycle (without seat belts or airbags). I know it’s dangerous. This goes without saying.
In the example of people who are blind. It’s far better for the AFB (American Foundation for The Blind) to use an EV sensor system. EV buyers will have no problem with paying $30 more per vehicle to assist with the distribution of sensors. This can be in the form of a cell phone ap that makes the blind persons phone vibrate or chirp. Or an iPod sized clip on. Part of the $30 cost can go to seeing eye dog programs.
Please be fair to millions of EV drivers. No forced beep at low speeds.
=D-Volt
-12
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:40 am)(click to show comment)
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:42 am)to- Wang Hung Lo
OPPS!!!!
Appears I make the mistake LOGIC was being attempted here?????? Now it is all clear.
The joke is on me. :+} Time to move on…
+18
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:43 am)I’m both surprised & disappointed that GM didn’t prevail in convincing the National Federation of the Blind, other carmakers, the ‘gubment’, et al to instead adopt the EXCELLENT Volt Gen 1 alert (also used successfully on EV-1)! I heard/used it during my test drive in NYC —it’s driver actuated by lifting the left lever that has also flashes the car’s high beams as an alert. The high beams flash as the car’s horn “bruups” at a very audible but lower level —it work’s perfectly!
Let’s hope any crazy automatic “chirping” requirement is defeated and the Volt’s driver-actuated high beam/bruup that’s both visible AND audible is eventually adopted instead!
-10
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:46 am)(click to show comment)
+12
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:51 am)Why don’t they turn this around and have the car transmit a wireless (silent) signal that can be picked up by a device the blind person (or cyclist) uses. It will let them know that there is a car coming and from where.
It could be incorporated into their walking cane so they are sure to always have it. This puts the onus on the blind person…as it should on any pedestrian, to pay attention to the area they are in as much as the driver on the road.
Harrier1970
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:52 am)Unfortunately this has happened, I read about this person who killed a whole family in a parking lot because she panicked and hit the accelerator instead of the brake. The loud noise of the accelerating ICE did not save the family.
I hope she at least lost her license.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:52 am)Darn!!! My choice for the mandatory sound was going to be “Flight of the Valkyries” by Wagner (pronounced vahg-ner). Defiantly an attention getter. At least its better than the drone of an ICE.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:53 am)Not sure this is germain only to EV’s, but some of the posts above do open the topic of cars and cyclists co-existing. This is a topic worthy of expanding on, particularly in that we as a society should be encouraging the increased use of bicycles. Personally, I have only owned a road bike for just over a year and I am still a bit afraid to compete with cars on roads. Surprisingly downtown Chicago seems quite bicycle friendly. Seems like the biggest step comes from a mindset that recognizes this co-existence.
+5
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:58 am)Electric vehicles in line at fast food restaurants. Highway and bridge tolls. Inspection stations. Electric taxis. Traffic in cities and on highways. Parking garages. Church parking lots. Funeral prosessions. Campgrounds.
Wait for the beep. Chorus of beeps? http://garfwod.250free.com/beep-20.mp3
=D-Volt
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:59 am)Thoughts……
……why not have the sound system be activated via body heat detection sensors, and what would be its cost…..
…….does the loudness level go up as speed increases/go down as speed decreases……
…….at what speed will the sound system turn off…..
…….can my Volt have for its warning sound Dinah Shore singing “See the USA in your Chevrolet”….
+5
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:08 am)they should also emit CO2 and smoke so the blind and deaf will know they are there. and since smell travels very slowly it will need a canon and a lot of emissions.
why is the world so jam packed with morons.
let us pollute the entire world with noise and add cost and difficulty to EV manufacture..
+7
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:09 am)I’d wonder how many pedestrians are killed or injured at very low speeds? My guess is very few.
The bigger danger would be at higher speeds. Also from what I understand, pedestrians are hit not because the pedestrian doesn’t see the car, but that the driver of the car doesn’t see the pedestrian. Since having the car make a noise this won’t help the driver see the pedestrian, it’s hard to see how this will prevent accidents. Seems like a useless “fell good” solution, meaning that the standard does nothing but allows everyone to pay themselves on the back and proclaim “job well done”.
+12
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:10 am)Oh… and one more thing. If my car is FORCED to make a chipy sound all the time at low speeds, I will not spend $35,000 on it, as a matter of fact, I will not buy it. Do you know what people did when their machines made chirpy sounds in the past? They oiled it so it would be QUIET!
Go find someone else to drive what WAS a beautiful vehicle. I have followed this vehicle since day 1, test drove it (totally awesome) and I have to tell you, this is the last straw for me.
Harrier1970
+5
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:10 am)Lyle, What do you think about this? You have driven an EV for a year now and have test driven the Volt also.
Personally I think if EV’s are mandated to install these systems then ALL cars should have to have them.
Today’s luxury brands are so quiet you don’t hear them until it’s too late for you to get out of the way anyway if you are a pedestrian, and don’t get me started with cyclists because I ride all the time and NEVER make decisions on whether or not I HEAR a car coming, I look.
Time for another movie: “Who’s still trying to kill the electric car?”
+9
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:12 am)70% of a vehicles noise at higher speeds comes from the tires on the road.
+10
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:15 am)So what if the pedestrian is deaf as well? Or sighted and deaf and not looking at the traffic?
I think this solution is overkill for a trivial issue. Is a little chirpy
thing even going to be noticeable in an urban environment or is it just going to add to the noise level?
I think advocates of these audible alarms are pursuing the wrong issues. Unwary pedestrians are being hit daily by regular noisy ICE vehicles. The sound level isn’t the problem.
Anyone know of a scientific study that even indicates that this is really an issue and not just some special interest opinion?
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:16 am)“In the US fifty children are being backed over by vehicles EVERY week. Forty-eight are treated in hospital emergency rooms and at least two children are fatally injured every WEEK. These unthinkable tragedies are happening most often in the driveway of the child’s home and in 70% of the incidents the driver of the vehicle is their parent, grandparent, aunt, uncle or older sibling.”
– source: kids and cars
———————-
50 per week. Can you imagine the impact on that statistic without the sound of a starter engaging and the low rumble of a tailpipe?
+9
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:20 am)Hi everybody, hope this is the beginning of a fantastic weekend for you!
Hey, don’t panic. Of course the manual audio alert signal is best – leaving it up to us to signal pedestrians……But, have you seen the way people drive lately? Cell phones in hand, diddling the laptop in their laps….it’s a real jungle out there. I myself have snuck up on unsuspecting pedestrians in parking garages when the Prius is in electric drive – it’s funny sometimes to just creep up on them ( you know those types who walk STRAIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE OF A PARKING GARAGE instead of along the sides
…….? How about that turkey who nanchelantly strolls in front of your car as you drive through a parking lot just expecting you to see them – gazing at their smartphone with the MP3 player’s earbuds blotting out any possibility he could actually hear you? Still, we do have the blind amongst us and children, and animals, pets and…and…. So we can see the need for this agreement. Before you all ( ya’ll for those in Southern states, and hipster types ) panic and imagine the Volt sounding like your local garbage truck backing up, just remember Tesla voluntarily equipped it’s Roadster with a whirring electric motivation-type sound, and I haven’t heard anyone who has test driven one or own one complain about it.
It would be insane for an EV or EREV to “beep beep beep” as some have quipped. Obviously that would wipe out sales in a jiff. So be assured, the Tesla has a cool sound, most still comment how silent it is running down the highway. Most of us have heard Teslas whir by on videos if we haven’t seen one personally. The industry standard should be similar, and to me —- it’s absolutely a non-issue. My Prius had idiotic beeps for reverse gear which were easily defeated by reading up on the how-tos from other Prius owners. Funny how these little issues pop up to distract us from what’s important – no gasoline usage and cleaner air to breathe.
Next subject?
Oh yeah, there’s this -
Mr. Whitacre is on the board of directors of Exxon/Mobile as we all know. To add to this the first person listed on GM’s board is the head of the Carlyle Group. Daniel F. Akerson,
Managing Director and Head of Global Buyout.
The Carlyle Group is a global alternative asset manager with more than $88.6 billion under management. Google “Carlyle/Riverstone I, Carlyle Riverstone II, and Carlyle Riverstone III for their recent acquisitions and you’ll find not only this very interesting company, Riverstone – who partnered with Carlyle in billions of dollars of investments in oil, gas, crude oil discovery, crude oil drills and equipment and yes, deep water oil platform technologies of all shapes and sizes. Oil and gas are big with Daniel F. Akerson. Be sure to read a few categories of Riverside’s business plan and how they plan to move forward manipulating the energy market and the needs of consumers…. GM’s history of integration with the oil business has been a long and very profitable one for both.
OK, what’s my point? Point being — just look at the hurdles the Volt and any GM EV larger than a Smart has to overcome to come into being – meaning, built in numbers justifying the huge dollars spent developing them. With Mr. Exxon/Mobile at the wheel of GM – and the pandering comments made by Mr. Lutz and other underlings re: “Mr. Whitacre knows we’re the auto professionals and pretty much gives us carte blanche….”. Just how much of that do you really believe?
Seriously, government mandate and competition from Nissan and Toyota are the only things that will begin to turn the behemoth that is GM around – to “about face” the nature of our current world – the dangers of placing our dependence on unfriendly nations and putting our faith in the same-ol’ , same ol’……..Ohhhhl ( as they say in Oklahoma oil country ) or “oil” for the rest of us.
Many of us here ( Lyle? Are you listening? ) have resolved to the fact Volt gen I may never see significant manufacture, and there may, or may not be gens II and III. It all depends upon whose in control of Congress and if the President is lame duck in his second term. Of course GM engineers love to leak out tidbits to us fans about the probables for gen II and further down the road….But as it stands today — We might as well realize a three state deal for celebrities, politicians, athletes and the lucky ( deep-pocketed or connected )few are what we’re in for.
Sorry to lay this all on you on a Saturday. I thought twice about writing this today —-casting a blind eyes to these realities is much more fun…. The chances for our beloved Volt are slim to none. There are, however miracles…Perhaps a ground-shaking disaster or Iranian nuke ( God forbid )…..something on that grand scale can easily turn the tide to a new EV horizon.
I have to admit I have been monitoring Volt videos on YouTube and watching the number of hits videos on Volt receive. The numbers are underwhelming, and it’s disconcerting when I hear of Volt displays where large groups of people aren’t milling about in interest – but one or two people may casually take a look. Special invites of EV fans or gatherings of interested folks comprised of geeky engineer types or curious treehuggers doesn’t a blockbuster Camaro make. Gas prices aren’t that painful right now. We can be assured electric car manufacture is on O.P.E.C.s radar as much as emerging oil markets of China and India. It’s all about price control to assure future profits. A good read of O.P.E.C.’s website reveals they are handily interested in the latest technological and sustainable trends that effect the price they can tack on a barrel of crude.
Sincerely, Jed Clampett
“Black Gold – Texas Tea”
RECHARGE! James
-1
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:28 am)How about instead we electronically tag ALL the blind, deaf, and everyone else at risk? Then put warning receivers in all the vehicles? We can have proximity detect automatically apply brakes…
+4
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:31 am)Me too, Harrier1970!!! (In fact, you & I rode together in NYC, as I’m sure you recall.)
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:35 am)I tend to only view/post on topics that interest me (or in this case, piss me off :p) based on the title from RSS
I understand that point, but there’s one major problem I have with that. The fact still remains that there is the capability to do something to my system without my consent. I am no stranger to this concept, as I am infuriated with beloved big business of Canada doing it to me.
(Long story short, Bell Canada decided to – without notice or consent – enable packet inspection and throttling on internet content that was not theirs. I am with a third party ISP, meaning Bell Canada’s role is to connect me through the telephone wires to them, nothing more. They have no right to do so. But they did.)
So, yes. It’s an opt-in service. ..until they decide that it isn’t. I have zero faith in government regulation after the fiasco above. (The regulatory body, composed of mostly people from the large corporations it regulates, essentially said “A-OK, carry on”)
The bottom line is that I have no need for OnStar, nor do I want it. Yet I’d still be forced to pay for it and have it active.
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:36 am)Not that I think that is acceptable, but how many of those 50 kids are blind or deaf? I think a little extra noise is going to have an effect that’s not measureable. It’s not a solution. It’s a “warm and fuzzy think you are doing something” action.
-3
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:39 am)Surely there is some kind of tone you’d find agreeable?
http://adboo.com/auto/QuindarPushRelease.wav
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:42 am)Has anyone here forgot that 90 percent of drivers have their radios playing. Now the blind guy and the rest of the public can hear loud music with a chirp flute thrown in when driving through neighborhoods, lol friggin stupid law.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:48 am)Thanks for the long and interesting reply. Will comment on the topic of degree of interest in the Volt.
I have seen the Volt on display three times now. First was at the Santa Monica Alternative Vehicle Show. The second 2 were at the L.A. Auto Show. The Volt is always the first or second crowd size favorite for GM.
I was surprised to see a very good looking model giving her once per hour speech at the Equinox disply. Nobody was there to listen. I walked up and listened. I later asked about the price with options. I was the only one there. The biggest draw was the first year the Camaro display. There were two Camaro there. With many cell phone photos being taken.
The Volt had at least 10 people at each hourly speech. The Converj display also had a good number listening each hour.
=D-Volt
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:52 am)add….
Or, you could just “loop” this one up to 15 mph:
http://adboo.com/auto/MA-8-Shirra621003-LiftOff.mp3
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:03 am)A very tough safety-engineering problem. There’s no easy answers. We have chirping traffic lights. We have back-up beeping prime mover standards. All meant to convey presence safely. I assume these committees took into account a herd of VOLTS-LEAFS all beeping asynchronously. No doubt a necessary compromise no one’s happy with.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:06 am)Yep —you can hear the one Harrier1970 & I did during our test drive at 1:00 into this video:
http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt/2011/chevy-volt-engineers-grapple-with-the-sound-of-silence.html
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:17 am)#1
I never thought that I would see the day, but I guess that I have to agree, LOL. +1
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:17 am)It sounds like a deal has been struck, but I hope it can be tweaked over time. I could see the folloowing:
1) A sound for reverse – I was in a grocery store parking lot loading up when a Prius silently pulled out beside me. I caught the movement out of the corner of my eye and it actually kinda startled me. That’s a fair trade off for me. Having a back up signal for what little reverse driving I do compared to living with having backed over a kid is a no brainer.
2) As the price of new technology comes down, a radar type of detector signalling pedestrians In The Volt’s Path could be adopted.
At what speed does the chirping start 4-5mph? and then cuts off at ?????? So there’s a window of speed that the sound will occur. Now just include the radar thingy mentioned above so it happens only when there’s people around and we’re all good.
Has anyone heard this sound yet? Is it possible that the sound won’t be that bad at all and could draw other’s attention to the Volt and other EV’s – hopefully in a positve way.
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:22 am)#12
Amen. +1 Maybe we can jut take the fuse out.
+4
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:22 am)Traffic cop to Volt driver: “I’m gonna have to write you up, your car is too quiet!”.
Aint Gonna Happen Dept.
RECHARGE!
James
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:25 am)It is the blind association that wants a law covering this problem and to say government is legislating more noise is, IMHO, narrow thinking. The amount of noise that is being suggested and adopted is nothing compared to that an ICE produces. The law will no doubt specify that a noise be emitted to warn pedestrians and warn blind people of an approaching vehicle but won’t specify what noise is to be used. As time passes, there will be changes made to overcome what problems it does cause.
What bothers me more is the boom boxes that car owners install and drive down the neighborhood street full blast in the wee hours of the night. And law enforcement has a very difficult time enforcing the law against their use in vehicles.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:32 am)If an audible is going to be required with the forward movement of the car …
Why does the sound have to be anything like a “chirp” or “burrp”.
Why not just let it have the old low pitch (and not too loud) hum of an electric motor that rises in pitch corresponding with the speed of the car, disappearing around 15 mph?
It’s an electric car. Let it sound like an electric car.
Just “un-engineer” the super-quietness out for low speed operation.
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:32 am)#16
Duct tape springs to mind.
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:43 am)#45
That would be me, LOL. And BTW, lose the stupid avatar, or I’m not reading your comments in the future.
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:47 am)Chances are that what you say won’t be a problem either! What little noise made will be insignificant next to problem of the high price of gasoline in the future. Nobody will even think of this bleeping noise then.
I wonder how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot, and you were the blind pedestrian walking down the street!?!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:47 am)The Tesla does not (yet) have a NHTSA-approved beeper, but a garbage truck does. And, once there’s a government mandate, it will be illegal to tamper with or remove it, so anyone who does will be on their own. (The vehicle also may not pass inspection.)
Yes, there will be a negative effect on sales. You can count on it.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:48 am)Wasn’t the idea of EV’s to get rid of pollution, so why more noise pollution?
(The Tesla just became a lot less cool)
(haven’t read all the posts.. has anyone suggested the Road Runner “beep beep”?)
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (11:55 am)#85
Yeah, and Harleys with no mufflers. I’m a 50 year + motorcyclist, and I am really disgusted by same.
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (12:09 pm)Old geezers do this now in ICE cars. Just about two days ago, in Albuquerque, I think. Noise from the engine doesn’t help pedestrians get out of the way. It’s the screams of the first ones hit and those who see it that alerts others! (I’m not making light of this, it’s what really happens.) So, it behooves state governments to have better laws about the subset of old geezers who really are incompetent, and keep them off the road.
Jun 5th, 2010 (12:12 pm)Something more to think about:
“According to a CDC study in 2008
More than 3.4 million Americans are either legally blind or visually impaired. Of those, approximately 1.3 million Americans are legally blind. As of 2010, the US population is just over 300 million, so 1.3 million would equate to roughly 0.3% of the population being legally blind”
The good of the few outweighs the good of the many. Sorry Spock… apparently you Vulcans have it backwards.
chirp chirp chirp
Harrier 1970
-3
Jun 5th, 2010 (12:14 pm)Roy H wrote:
“Nice to hear from someone with actual experience.
Do you cross a road based solely on hearing?
How do you deal with new quiet cars?
Would you think it unreasonable to carry some sort of detector as suggested by some here?
Is your desire for noisier cars just a re-assurance factor or critical?
I am sympathetic to your concerns, but wish clarification to see if some other solution could be better. ”
………………………………………………………………………………………………
Roy H,
Thanks for asking.
1. I use several tools while walking along or crossing a street; my residual vision, my dog (when she’s with me), my hearing, etc. All these factors play a part in my safety. To take away my ability to hear a car would lessen my margin of safety. For me that is unacceptable.
2. I don’t know, I don’t hear them
…No ICE car is that quiet, especially from outside. Many use noise dampeners to keep the inside noise to a minimum but from outside the engine can still be heard. No, it’s not as loud as my glass-pack equipped ’72 Monte Carlo was, but remember I’m listening for cars, so I do hear the quiet ones coming.
3. A detector would be something else to remember and something else to carry. I already carry some combination of my cane, my briefcase or backpack, my radio (instead of a cell phone), and hold onto my dog. Further, no detector will allow me to have the instantaneous feedback of actually hearing the sound of a car. Remember, I can’t look at the screen and see which way the car is coming from, I rely on my ears to tell me that. And of course, if I forget my decector, I’m screwed.
4. Put yourself in my position. Anything that enhances my safety and my day to day functionality is critical. Further I don’t have a desire for a noisier car. Today’s cars make noise, and I don’t want the chirp sound changed to the rumble of my old Monte Carlo. Sometimes I sit on my back deck and listen to all the sounds, the sounds of cars, lawnmowers, etc. I wonder what I would be hearing if not for all these man-made devices that already make noise. If some on this forum are so high and mighty that they don’t want a chirp on their electric car then please go back to using a reel type mower so I don’t have to hear that crazy mower or weedeater run once a week.
I guess what bothers me most is those on this forum who act so irrational over a little chirping noise, even before they’ve heard it. Get real folks. The chirp will likely be no louder than a quiet ICE and will probably be a less obtrusive tone. I’ll be the first to raise Cain if it sounds like a delivery truck. To those idiots who state that they will not buy an electric car if it makes a chirp, how childish can you be? Does your current car not make any noise? To the poster who railed about paying taxes, I pay taxes as well, don’t I have the right to safely use or cross a road partially funded by MY tax dollars? Clip the chirps wires? Can you say lawsuit, I know you can. Really, some of you sound like a bunch of third graders whinning about a spelling test, geez.
-1
Jun 5th, 2010 (12:18 pm)You very stupid americans. Company probly spent million trying to figure out how to make noise. Wasr money and rime. You very stupid americans.
+6
Jun 5th, 2010 (12:21 pm)Here is a good article on this subject – along with the language of the proposed bill:
http://gas2.org/2010/05/20/electric-cars-to-get-alert-sounds-for-blind-elderly-and-child-safety/
I submit to all of you, get out and contact your representative in government and fight this ridiculous requirement. Support the simple, driver activated, alert that GM has already created.
Harrier 1970
+5
Jun 5th, 2010 (12:41 pm)The proximity detector would be in your cane – can I get you to raise your cain for that? It could be designed to tell you the distance (intensity of vibration or sound) and direction.
Since you want to talk about childishness, how about this fine quote of yours:
“…please go back to using a reel type mower so I don’t have to hear that crazy mower or weedeater run once a week”
You point out that it is disturbing to have an uncontrollable noise in your neighborhood… a lawnmower once a week. How irritating! Hmmmm.
you wish to make 99.7% of the people unhappy about a constant noise that will never end in cities…. let me repeat that, IT WILL NEVER END. Beeping, chirping, honking. All day, all night. You are thinking about the odd car in suburbia now… I am thinking about a day when all cars are electric and there are as many as there are today.
CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP
Or, we can say that GM came up with a good compromise that allows for drivers to alert someone who is unaware of their presence (Drivers in New York and Boston will have no problem with this as they already will liberally use their horns
.
Harrier1970
+6
Jun 5th, 2010 (12:48 pm)Uhhhh…. Two thoughts here:
1. Ya’know the chirping sound crosswalks make for visually impaired already? That sound is for them TO WALK TOWARDS!!! If the Electric-Hybrids make a similar sound, won’t it just draw blind people directly into the path of them?!!!
2. I’m pretty sure that “Bruup, bruup” is the sound I already make after a Taco Bell Burrito and Diet Coke.
The sound effects will have NO effect either way on traffic safety.
-7
Jun 5th, 2010 (12:50 pm)I’m surprised and disappointed many here seem almost violently opposed to making the Volt (and other EVs) measurably safer.
+4
Jun 5th, 2010 (12:52 pm)There goes the dream of downtown New York City during rush hour and there is nothing but the sound of the birds.
Now it’s the sound of the birds and the bird sounds from all those cars. It’s going to be ridiculous.
Guess America is going to have too many regulations and restrictions to be even bearable to live in.
Bird sounds. I can hear the people laughing (and bitching) now. Ugh.
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (1:09 pm)That’s the problem, it would NOT be measurably safer. It would be measurably noisier.
The lack of acceptance of the others (blind or not) to consider the suggestions of making a device that the pedestrian can carry/wear, reminds me of the community that was trying to comply with ADA. They proposed a limited number of dial-a-ride buses for physically impaired (free wheel chair accessible taxi service) instead of having to retrofit all the other buses for accessibility. You know what happened, don’t you: proposal denied.
Jun 5th, 2010 (1:10 pm)If we can’t get the Cylon scanner sound, can we at least option for the scanner???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nIanuWIw-Q
-3
Jun 5th, 2010 (1:19 pm)I am amazed that you are getting so many minuses. I gave you a plus one just to balance your rating out, and saw your score go more -2 to -5 even after my +1. Maybe they just don’t like the sound you selected.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+4
Jun 5th, 2010 (1:21 pm)This is very retarded to the umpteenth exponent. Has anyone even tried to measure noise decibles of an oncoming car and compared it to a hybrid or EV? Most likely not but all theese yahoo’s want to make this standard with no measureable metrics to say if it saved a life or not.
Someone needs to make the decible comparison and make the measurement from real world outside! Not in some stupid noise dampened inclosed studio/warehouse. What it will reveal is the ambient noise washes out most and the oncoming car decellerating wil be just as loud or quite as the oncoming EV. Ditto for the accelerating car as tire to asphalt crunches make the same noise.
So screw all the make noise to folks for oncoming cars. The only thing I will accept is what poster carcus2 indicates for backing up. We need to at least have competent drivers. If we have to augment our vehicles because of idiot drivers, then I say we take the license away from the idiot.
+8
Jun 5th, 2010 (1:23 pm)From time to time I walk with a close relative of mine who, although a young man, has become almost totally blind. When walking with him I see that the key to our safety is for car drivers to see us and then to recognize that he can’t see them. To this end, one wears easily visible clothing. Also, the standard white cane is recognized by most drivers and is a great safety aid. Of course, we are also cautious about where to walk, and when.
Perhaps a auto beeper will help in some situations. If so, it needs to be on all cars. Then again, maybe sounding the beep will give the tiny percentage of drivers who feel a sense of entitlement an even greater sense of entitlement so that they become even more of a hazard.
Empathy is a good thing but not a replacement for thinking and doing something effective. The driver-initiated sound in the gen 1 Volt is a good step. Generalized beeping is, I think, going to become yet another background distraction, making it harder for the blind or the sighted to hear and recognize the sounds that are critical.
-16
Jun 5th, 2010 (1:23 pm)(click to show comment)
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (1:29 pm)Yes! My neighbors will love that when I come and go late at night or very early in the morning! Forget cutting the wires: I’m putting in a thousand-watt amplifier!
Or make it sound like a snow plow, so all the half-asleep schoolkids will get their hopes up for nothing.
If they really have to give it a sound, might as well make it sound like… a car. A nice car. Since it’s a Chevy, I vote make it sound like a Corvette.
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (1:54 pm)Let us see how the government can defend the litigation submitted if the artificial noise requirement is greater than the quietest ICE autos.
Equal protection under law.
-10
Jun 5th, 2010 (1:56 pm)(click to show comment)
+5
Jun 5th, 2010 (1:57 pm)I’ve been starting/reading/responding to this type of thread ever since the subject came up. For full disclosure, nobody in my family is blind. I am an avid cyclist and ride more miles than I drive any car. The primary automobile in our family has been an EV for over 10 years now – starting with the EV1 that had the ideal “excuse me” warble that was driver-initiated ONLY when needed. Backing up in a full parking lot? Give it a warble first. Come up behind some clueless idiot walking down the middle of the parking lot? Give it a warble. See a blind person about to step off the curb in front of a quite ICE car? Get your warble out and save him!
OK, so then I read this comment:
“Since the Volt is not really a pure EV like the LEAF (which should have noise maker), the Volt can just Turn On and Rev Up the ICE when moving below 40 mph. Yeah this might defeat some of its mileage (mpg) benefits but it is a small price to pay versus become the human killing machine.”
Hello? Is anybody paying attention? Tens of thousands of lives are cut short every year… from the effects of gasoline consumption for transportation. Burning gasoline kills people. You don’t need to run over a pedestrian to kill them with a car. Just burn gasoline. Less blood to clean off the car, and you don’t have to be there to see it.
So yeah. Burn gasoline to save lives. Perfect!
+7
Jun 5th, 2010 (1:57 pm)Sounds like 99.9% of the people will be punished for the benefit of the 0.1%
I definitely think this idiotic agreement will hurt EV sales.
Also, I live near a stop sign. Am I going to hear chirps all day and all night long?
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (2:12 pm)These are tragic cases that arise from drivers being unable to see what’s behind them and assuming the driveway is clear.
The most promising technology is the backward-looking video now present in some new cars and trucks. That way the driver can respond, not the children.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (2:31 pm)And, I believe available as an option on the Volt and LEAF.
I added one to my pickup for $50 to help with backing up to a trailer to hitch up.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (2:32 pm)The Volt has this video capability
Jun 5th, 2010 (2:35 pm)Right! Did they tell us whether the Volt’s rear-looking camera is standard or optional, Jason?
Jun 5th, 2010 (2:47 pm)I guess some people can’t take a joke.
“Quindar” tones are the beeps we’ve heard during NASA space communications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quindar_tones
+5
Jun 5th, 2010 (2:56 pm)First, why is a blind person on a blog for an electric car they will never get a license to drive?
Second, you seem to take any issue to the most ridiculous conclusions – al la Logans Run or the multitasking, Skynard loving smoker you illustrate above. You are the only person here saying anything about lethal injections. Also, it is disparaging to call someone with down syndrome a “retard.” I would think that someone with a disability would be more understanding of the difficulties that they might face.
What I am saying is that a reasonable solution has already been found that works for the greatest good. One that is not intrusive to the majority of people and allows for those among us who are either not paying attention or who are otherwise disadvantaged to be alerted to danger.
Harrier 1970
Jun 5th, 2010 (3:03 pm)I understood that it was standard but I didn’t see or hear anything official. It was in both of the test cars in NY.
+14
Jun 5th, 2010 (3:09 pm)Great! EV’s don’t have enough to overcome for people to accept them. Now this. They are going to look like toys. Can you imagine someone walking into a show room without knowledge of this and taking it for a test drive. Looking at the salesperson next to them and saying “what the f*** it that?” “Really? It’s going to make that noise all the time? You gotte be kidding me”
This will kill a lot of sales. Makes you wonder who’s really behind this. The commission of the blind or another powerful lobby we are all well aware of…..
I really hope there is a organized protest of this. I will gladly join it both financially and physically
-2
Jun 5th, 2010 (3:13 pm)True that,
If you have a backup camera then you may not need some sort of audible in reverse.
The backup scenario is one that people assume can never happen to them. That’s what I would have thought too — before I backed into a Honda CRX — WHILE I was twisted around in my seat looking out the back glass.
Long story short:
- pouring rain, head down and run out to the car parked on the street , for some reason a tiny crx was parked about 2 feet from my rear bumper. After I pullled back forward to remove the hitch and ball of my Bronco from the Honda’s grill, I re-enacted my twist and look and realized that my rear tire mount had concealed the CRX from view. A “normal” sized car would have been taller/longer but the CRX was just small enough to completely hide behind the spare.
I can imagine Grandma going out to the car and getting distracted by a cell phone call after she’s got the car door closed (sister is back in the hospital), upset, she hurries to back out of the drive, not realizing the grandkids have moved their play to just behind the car.
In an ICE car at least the kids would have 4 or 5 seconds warning when they hear the starter/exhaust. With the electric car, if they’re facing the other direction they’ll never know it’s coming.
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (3:38 pm)My Buick as is many cars…as quiet as a electric car at low speeds… my 63 Ford Fairlane could not be heard even when you opened the hood… This artificial noise is not needed and not wanted. Why put this irritating noise on millions of vehicles when it would be much easier for blind people to obtain a hand held sonar device if they need them. When its raining out most cars cannot be heard.. when there is snow on the ground most cars cannot be heard… a portable sonar device is a much better solution for the small amount of people who need them.
This is not acceptable and will be disabled if put into production.
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (3:44 pm)“Bruup, bruup”…?
I can see the commercial now.
“My Chevy Volt is like an electric car, but with one important difference! My Chevy Volt has GAS!”
This ad brought to you by the award winning Volt Dance Team.
-12
Jun 5th, 2010 (3:46 pm)(click to show comment)
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (3:54 pm)”We do hate the idea of ring tones,” said Chris Danielsen, a spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind, . “We think manufacturers should decide the sound or set of sounds, and drivers should not able to alter them willy-nilly.”
Chris, when you pay for my Chevy Volt, then you can decide what kind of noise it makes. But, as long as I am paying for it, then what you want is irrelevant.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (3:56 pm)NHTSA chief David Strickland told reporters Wednesday that his agency is reviewing the agreement, and wants to be assured that the sound alert “is clearly discernable.”
From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100520/AUTO01/5200432/1148/Carmakers-to-give-quiet-electrics-some-noise#ixzz0q0V1SEk7
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (3:58 pm)Doesn’t the Prius make no noise at slow speed … I think this is a solution that doesn’t have a problem.
Jun 5th, 2010 (4:06 pm)From the California Vehicle Code Division 1- Words and Phrases Defined
Of course the law may be different in your state, but I suspect this is the way the federal government looks at it.
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (4:23 pm)Hear, hear! One of the first things I did when we got our Prius was to turn off the irritating “Beep, Beep, Beep” when backing up. Fortunately the manual told me how to do it, but if it hadn’t I would have found a way.
I will do the same thing, with even more determination, for an automatic low-speed sound of any type, and I suspect a majority of my fellow EV and hybrid owners also will. The result: No automatic warning and no way to give a manual warning except by a horn blast. This proposal is self-defeating.
Jun 5th, 2010 (4:55 pm)Really? You would give up everything an electric vehicle represents, just because of a govt mandated chirp?
Come on guys, put this in perspective. This is not just Volt mandate, it is for ALL electrics and hybrids.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (4:59 pm)Well, I know the first thing to disable on my new Chevy Volt.
Unlike the rest of you, when I took driver’s education back in the 70′s, we were taught that pedestrians have the right of way. The problem today is that most drivers do not practice pedestrians right of way rule.
Its real funny how a lot of drivers these days do not show any coustesy to there fellow drivers or to pedestrians (tail-gaters, cut-offs, run-downs, etc). I wonder if all drivers were given a test on the right of way rules, how many would pass!
Jun 5th, 2010 (5:16 pm)Carcus, that is one determined Grandmother short a few grand-kids! 4 to 5 seconds? My Grandmother gave us less time than that. Hummm?
Long ago here on this splendid Forum I suggested that ICE sounds be available, even with a deep appropriate rumble IF you wanted it. Straight 8…, no problem… . And are there not other electric cars being readied that have motor sounds? (Fisker) The tech is readily available to say, “audit” your surroundings and thus automatically emit caution sounds. No pedestrians, cyclists, grand-kids, no sound.
This reminds me of the history of the early days of auto cars with lads or cars with bells ringing of the approach of the horseless carriage and the like. Hopefully it will not be as silly at such a late date in advanced technology!
The Lads, Zeus and Apollo are whining now. Some annoying silent whistle nearby. Grandmother at work! Hates the Lads she does.
Regards! Higgins and the whining Lads
PS: Is this the original Carcus or some new Carcus?
Jun 5th, 2010 (5:16 pm)Three.
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (5:33 pm)I just read the article. This sucks.
I want quiet. My goal will be to disconnect the noise.
Jun 5th, 2010 (5:36 pm)A lot more here in Lake Woebegone where all the children are above average.
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (5:39 pm)” These chirping sounds would automatically be emitted when the car operates at low speeds”
Just another reason to drive fast and take chances…
Seriously what is the decibel output of a Volt versus a Prius at low speed? Or a bicycle? When I drive around with the windows open I do not want to hear some silly noise every time I slow down.
Most drivers are aware of pedestrians, one with a white cane and a dog gets lots of attention. Really when was the last time that happened?
Yes, I live in the woods, I saw a guy in the city with a white cane once or twice. I have a lot of Wild Turkeys (birds) in my yard. I would prefer to go up my long driveway without upsetting the wildlife. That is just my opinion.
Jun 5th, 2010 (5:42 pm)How about coupling the sound maker w/a proximity laser scanner, and when/if someone steps in front of your car while moving at very low speed, your car will automatically stop and activate the alert signal?
Just an idea. I dont see the need to have this sound on all the time. Just when a dangerous situation becomes possible.
Jun 5th, 2010 (5:46 pm)“Bruup, bruup”
The sound of a flat tire?
Jun 5th, 2010 (5:54 pm)My first thought was to combine it with “FLIR” (Forward Looking Infrared Radar) though I thought it would be too complex, but maybe not? If there is nobody around why activate the noise?
+5
Jun 5th, 2010 (6:00 pm)Can’t they let the Volt and Leaf actually BE for a year or two before making up hypothetical problems?
Did the EV-1 kill any blind people? Are the Tesla’s maiming any bikers??
Seriously, do we need legislation for cars making up .2% of the marketplace?!
+4
Jun 5th, 2010 (6:02 pm)JEC
I think they really mean it. I feel the same way. Burp burp or beep beep is not for me.
I’m glad I had an opportunity to drive a truly awesome car while it was quiet.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (6:21 pm)The question is whether Volts will be as smart as crickets and learn to chirp in unison.
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (6:35 pm)I cannot know what it is like to be visually impaired and have to rely intensively on one’s sense of sound. If the blind, blind advocacy groups, automakers and the government mutually agree this is important, then probably it is.
I also want add I am very impressed with the veracity of comments on this post. Artificial sounds in electric cars must have really struck a chord.
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:07 pm)Hey Higgins,
Still the same . .. although I’ve had to “reinvent” myself a few times due to moderation.
“Carcus” had a better sound to it … nice and clean. But hey, I’m not looking back . . . unless I’m coming out of the garage, of course.
Beeep beeep beeeep beeep ……
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:19 pm)Not here in Florida! They got rid of this type of testing about 10 years ago. Thank God.
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:21 pm)My solution would be to contract with Raytheon and have them install an Active Denial System on my Volt. Don’t hear me coming….ZAP! Guarantee you will get out of my way!
https://www.jnlwp.com/ads.asp
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:32 pm)My observation is that the cyclists don’t care when a car is behind them so what does it matter? I live out in the country, and the road to town is very popular with cyclists. When I come up behind them, they keep going right where they are.
If they are going to pull into traffic relying on their ears only and not turn around to use their eyes it is a Darwin award situation.
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:41 pm)PDNFTT
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:47 pm)I would like to point out this article as to an example of why this is a complete waste of resources and a total load of bull.. http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Pedestrian,_three_others_killed_in_helicopter_crash_in_British_Columbia
about a year ago in canada a helicopter crash landed in a residential area. the helicopter crashed into the street and landed ontop of a pedestrian, killing him, the pedestrian did not hear the helicopter coming and it was speculated this was due to the ipod he was listening to.
If a pedestrian cannot hear a helicopter, which is far noisier than any vehichle what is the benifet to putting noise makers into a car? other than to cause noise poluttion and try to kill the electric car, again!
Jun 5th, 2010 (7:48 pm)A drive through would be the worst! I have a diesel pickup and I have to kill the engine whenever I go through a drive through so we can converse. I look forward to a quiet car.
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:03 pm)Can you imagine that statistic if we ban pickups, vans and SUVs? Nearly all of these back-over cases involve taller vehicles where the driver doesn’t see the kid because of reduced visibility down low.
I ALWAYS back into my parking spot at home. If people did this, the rate would go way down.
+2
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:13 pm)It is probably important to a few people. But does that give them the right to create noise pollution for hundreds of millions of people? Considering that other solutions could be employed (silent transponders in the vehicle that let the blind know that a vehicle is near), I think this ruling is a terrible injustice by a narrow special interest.
If the ruling is not defeated, the beeper will be.
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:20 pm)I thought you were going to get the Jaws “dahh duhh dahh duhh” sound specially downloaded into your car.
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:57 pm)If I listen to a slow Volt will I be able to calculate the temperature?
http://weather.about.com/od/weatherfolklore/f/crickets.htm
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (8:57 pm)We should make every politician have a sound rigged to every move their lips make….
like a bull crapping.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:24 pm)Please don’t be insulted or upset. I don’t believe it’s really anybody’s intention to disregard the safety of the vision-impaired. I do believe, though, that people feel strongly that an annoying sound is NOT the solution.
In fact, imagine yourself trying to safely cross an intersection with ten or fifteen constantly-chirping vehicles moving around slowly. How disorienting and counterproductive will THAT become, in a big hurry?
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:32 pm)I hate to have to point this out, but some of the very WORST drivers out there could give a rat’s (__)__) whether they have a license. Revoking it won’t stop them from driving.
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:36 pm)Oh yeah, I bet you’re still going to LOVE that after being forced to listen to it for a few hundred hours!!
Now if the “pedestrian friendly alert” could be Flight of the Valkyries (or even “La Cucaracha,” like what they did to that dude’s Porsche horn in “Bachelor Party!”)… I’d be OK with that
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:50 pm)I TOTALLY call “non-sequitur” on you!!
Just because people don’t want a repetitive, possibly annoying sound emitted constantly… that has absolutely ZERO bearing on how they feel about safety.
+3
Jun 5th, 2010 (9:53 pm)If it’s really, absolutely necessary, I’m hoping Ford implements this on the Focus. I’ve seen test video for their “imminent collision” detection system that alerts the driver and (if you don’t respond in time, and a crash is going to happen) applies the brakes.
At the same time the alert goes off in the cabin, it can be sent to an exterior speaker.
None of this “every time you drive slowly” bullshit. Just imagine rush-hour.. Not only would it drive you insane, but every car around you. If there’s more than one EV, even worse.
If EV’s become common, imagine rush-hour traffic slowdowns with 75% of the cars equipped with this.
It’s really unnecessary, and there are much better ways to go about this (as I and others have mentioned earlier)
Those who feel they’re at risk should be able to get a detection device. If the main concern is blind people, how about RFID broadcasts from each EV. The cane carried by most blind people can be equipped with two readers and either beep or vibrate in a different manner, to indicate direction of the signal. I.e. if the cane has two RFID readers at either end, it can compare the relative signal strengths for a given unique ID and a processor can provide feedback to determine the direction.
And for the record, I’m not a selfish bastard thinking only of myself. My aunt is legally blind and she agrees with me 100%. To implement something as foolish as this is absurd when there’s an easy solution that can be implemented for those who need assistance.
+1
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:33 pm)Technically, it is a straw man fallacy.
Being a school board member I deal with that one probably most often. You should see some of the ones that parents come up with about us.
+5
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:50 pm)I am not a member of the NFB because I don’t agree with many of their ideals. This organization will be relentless with any legislation they want to push. I would rather have the optional manual soft horn to alert people without startling them and also have a reasonable backup warning. I would rather have loud vehicles comply to noise levels like motorcycles with their baffles removed, insane volume levels of stereos, and vehicles with bad mufflers for example. As a blind traveler it is more difficult to navigate safely with loud noises canceling out other sounds that help orient you. I am much more concerned about the growing number of drivers that are disstracted by all kinds of reasons instead of focusing on driving. We have allready covered that subject in the past. The best way to stop this from happening is to raise cane with your representatives because the NFB is not reasonable when it comes to pushing legislation that they want.
Jun 5th, 2010 (10:50 pm)I really do want the “Theme From JAWS” on my VOLT. I fully intend to make a special CD for the stereo. When I’m at the mall parking lot, I’ll just roll down the windows and crank the stereo up FULL !!!!
Jun 6th, 2010 (12:26 am)Didn’t Maximum Bob say we’d be getting a CD with engine sounds on it with our Volt?
I think that will do the trick.
Seriously though, I’d have to hear this sound in person to see if I find it objectionable.
+2
Jun 6th, 2010 (1:15 am)Dang! I hate it when I do that. I went to give you a +1, but the mouse slipped and it got recorded as -1. I’ll try to make up for that by saying here that yours was a very thoughtful and thought-provoking post. Thank you!
Visually impaired people cannot see us. Children often will not see us. It is our responsibility as drivers not to hit them; we should never assume they are aware of us or that they will get out of our way.
That is precisely why I believe that GM has the correct solution right now in the Volt, and why all vehicles should be required to implement it. A gentle but unique sound when flashing the high beams is a perfect warning. It is audible, visual, natural, and under the control of the person who is required to be in control of the vehicle.
It doesn’t, by itself, handle the problem of backing into toys, kids, or even adults, but a backup camera is the solution there, and the Volt has one of those, too.
+1
Jun 6th, 2010 (3:07 am)There is a VW conversion on my street. It makes a steady whine noise when it drives by. Sounds like an ICE vehicle going in reverse gear.
If a sound must be added to EV and hybrids for slow speed operation. Make it a steady whine or buzz. Not a beep beep, squawk squawk, or blurp blurp. An electric turbine sound that fades at 15 mph is appropriate.
=D-Volt
-3
Jun 6th, 2010 (6:13 am)I would like to remind everyone that GM can use active sound cancellation in the cabin to remove that warning sound.. the cabin speakers emit a “countersound” to cancel out the desired noise, plus the normal sound dampening that the Volt already uses.. the only limitation is that it would not work with the windows open. The Chevy Equinox uses this to dampen the engine noise.
In my opinion you will never hear this sound.
Jun 6th, 2010 (6:32 am)Now that would be cool! Thanks for the link.
+2
Jun 6th, 2010 (6:39 am)Consistent with your comment, the bill calls for consulting with the NFB, the auto makers, the EPA and other government agencies but not for consulting with any individuals or representatives of the general public.
+3
Jun 6th, 2010 (6:42 am)..but you will hear about it from your family and the neighbors
+3
Jun 6th, 2010 (6:44 am)Herm said:
In my opinion you will never hear this sound.
I think the concern of most posters, me included, would be more like fear that neighborhood deed restrictions might someday say: no electric cars allowed
+3
Jun 6th, 2010 (7:33 am)But what of the blind drivers that can’t see cyclist? I think cyclists should wear a backpack that constantly beeps
+1
Jun 6th, 2010 (9:38 am)I think in this case, it’s safe to say it qualifies as both!
Jun 6th, 2010 (9:41 am)That “fin” antenna on top is really gonna need to be up-sized on your Volt, isn’t it
+1
Jun 6th, 2010 (9:45 am)Thanks for your nice comments. And I agree, it would be useful to have something like this on any car! For example, whenever I’m stuck behind somebody at a stoplight that’s turned green, and they’re still zoned out with their cellphone (or whatever) several seconds later. My intent is to nudge them back to consciousness, not necessarily get them all road-raged at me for laying on the horn. I always try to make it as SHORT a blast as possible, but that’s not always easy. A Volt-like “friendly horn” would come in very handy just then.
Spot on… Exactly right!
+2
Jun 6th, 2010 (1:30 pm)This is beyond ridiculos……
I can’t wait to hear all the opinions when there is 15 cars beeping and some blnd guy is froozen in the middle of an intersection because all he can hear is chirping coming from every angle….
Call me an a-hole but i don’t give a shit about the 1 deaf guy i might encounter during my entire ownership of this vehicle. So because it might make it easier for 1 guy in 10 years to hear me coming i gotta drive around beeping forever.
Watch out deaf people cause my chirp will be disabled…. so the 1 time in 10 years we do happen to cross each others pass i’ll be sure to lay into my horn out of respect for you safety.
Our government i so brooken…… No energy policy, 2 wars, economy in shambles and this is what we get.
Jun 6th, 2010 (1:53 pm)Just like daytime running lights are easily turned off, this will be easy to disbale as well.
Jun 6th, 2010 (2:45 pm)That is kind of artificail problem.
Another technical issue – the chirping sound shall be strictly directed ahead of the automobile. 5% of disperse would be acceptable. Nobody talks abbout that. That is supprising.
Jun 6th, 2010 (2:47 pm)Let’s see, do I cut the blue wire, or the red wire?
+1
Jun 6th, 2010 (4:08 pm)Both, remove it entirely
Jun 7th, 2010 (4:22 am)Uh… I don’t think the chirp is for deaf people. They won’t hear it anyway.
Normally I would be calling you an a-hole, but in this case I agree with you.
The neighbors will be happy to hear the chirping when we wake them up late at night while
pulling into the driveway. I will do what ever it takes to disconnect that stupid noise.
I live in the woods. Why the hell am I (and the neighbors) going to want to hear this.
It is really beyond stupid.
Just cure blindness and don’t worry about the very stupid noise.
Jun 7th, 2010 (9:19 am)I think this technology will be helpful for the pedestrians. You see, it was really a problem with these cars, now i think its perfect.
+1
Jun 7th, 2010 (11:35 am)Yes, the oil companies are always advocating for cyclists. Oh, yeah, and the blind, too. D&mn compasionate group, they are.
Jun 7th, 2010 (1:47 pm)Make it sound like a smallblock V8 with a deep, lopey cam. That’ll get the pedestrians out of the way.
+1
Jun 7th, 2010 (1:47 pm)Early autos were required to have flag men walk ahead to ensure the horses wouldn’t be startled. The problem isn’t that blind people can’t hear electric cars. The problem is that they can’t SEE them. Hearing has been their solution and now the solution isn’t as effective. The problem hasn’t changed, only the effectiveness of the solution. I would like it if all those engineers and advocates for the blind would consider all the possible solutions instead of focusing so quickly on this one. I also fear that someone somewhere will get hit by an electric car and the lawyers will win on the basis of product safety. Bingo – quiet vehicles will suddenly be defective. Try enforcing noise ordinances on that guy down the block with the giant woofer in his trunk of the kid on the motorcycle with straight pipes when the courts decree that loud noises really are a safety feature. This really sucks in my opinion
+1
Jun 7th, 2010 (3:28 pm)Sorry Lyle, facts wrong AGAIN!!! (why am I the only one pointing this sh*t out?!?)
As a cyclist and a bike commuter I do not NEED to hear a car to know that it is there. What I do need is my own two eyeballs to LOOK AROUND ME FOR TRAFFIC and ride predictably. God gave us 5 senses, lets use them people.
As for blind people, I really don’t know. How does a blind person avoid being hit by cyclists? Bikes are nearly silent, actually much more so than an electric car. Yes people, open your ears, your quiet electric cars still actually make noise, its less boom boom and more whine whine. But its still there and still can be heard. As for the chirping sound, its the most stupid idea I’ve ever heard of. Who are the congressmen on this committee making these decisions, I want to write an equally derisive letter to them, Lyle shouldn’t bear the brunt of all of my verbal abuse.
Jun 7th, 2010 (4:30 pm)Almost pointless to post on an older topic but I hope maybe some of the auto manufacturers will still be reading this since it generated so many comments.
Note to EREV/BEV manuacturers: Since this is a very Important safety feature, please put this noise generator on it’s very own dedicated electrical circuit, protected by a fuse of course.
Not that I would ever remove the fuse from such an “important” safety feature since someone would be sure to sue me in the case of an accident, even if the noise generator was not a factor. If, however, the fuse had simply blown, maybe during the accident itself, I would certainly have plausible deniability.
Now, on a completely different topic, does anyone know the best way to apply a large enough current across an automotive fuse to cause it to “blow”?
Jun 8th, 2010 (3:45 am)And I thought a garbage truck was annoying! I can only imagine a hot summer morning while I’m sleeping and kids are going to school and adults are doing their 9 to 5…. and every 20 seconds after the garbage man co and wakes me up, a fucking EV/BEV/EREV drives by beeping like the fucking road runner! Insanity!
Jun 8th, 2010 (3:22 pm)Yep, this is mostly more tempest in a teapot FUD that’s been debunked in prior years.
http://www.examiner.com/x-14333-Green-Transportation-Examiner~y2009m7d7-Off-road-enjoyment-with-electric-motorcycles-and-ATVs
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/525/3057/Motorcycle-Article/24-Hours-of-Electricross-Results.aspx
Jun 8th, 2010 (5:29 pm)I thought you were talking about THIS film!:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055894/
I also had to double check that this wasn’t a leftover April fools column. Can you imagine wall to wall cars in traffic all “Brruup Bruuup”ing together? It’ll sound like we’re being invaded by chickens or something. Maybe I’m just not envisioning the sound properly. Which kind of makes sense since how does one envision a sound?
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:19 am)I live in Rural IL. I also hate noise pollution. This will be the first item to be ripped out of the car when I get it. (Weight reduction.)
Jun 23rd, 2010 (7:54 am)Thanks for sharing such an important news here. I think this technology will be helpful for the pedestrians. You see, it was really a problem with these cars, now i think its perfect.