Carlos Ghosn is steering his company headlong towards the electrification of the automobile. Nissan will begin retail sales of its LEAF EV at the end of this year and will be competing for US early adopters with the Chevy Volt.
Ghosn has gone on record saying he expects 10% of auto sales to be for electric cars by the year 2020. Consulting firms have been more conservative. A recent study by Deloitte predicts that number would be closer to 2%.
Despite these and several other more conservative estimates, Ghosn is sticking to his guns. According to the Wall Street Journal he is “confident” sales will be at least 10%. He says those that don’t agree with his projections are often driven by car companies who aren’t properly prepared to compete in the segment.
“You see a lot of skepticism in the industry. If a competitor doesn’t have an electric car, they are skeptical. When the public jumps in, they are going to say, ‘Why didn’t we see this earlier?’ ” Ghosn said.
Ghosn says Nissan-Renault has plans to roll out several electric models over the next several years. He actually believes even that pace could be too slow. He worries demand may actually exceed his expecations because sales may skyrocket once the public finally sees these cars in action.
“My biggest worry is that this market is going to grow too fast,” he said “And we will be under capacity.”
As it stands, Nissan is investing $5 billion into building EVs, and plans to sell 50,000 LEAFs globally in 2011 and 2012, and then an additional 500,000 per year starting in 2013. In that third year, the company wil be able to recoup its investment and return a profit, said Ghosn. If the company is not able to sell 500,000 EVs per year from 2013, it will take a loss.
Even with this in mind Ghosn said “I think the risk that Nissan is taking with this vehicle is much lower than any other vehicle we are renewing.”
Ghosn beleives demand will be so great in part because his company is focusing so heavily on creating an extensive public charging infrastructre. He says Nissan is agressively pursuing agreements with goverments and businesses to install public charging in” parking garages, shopping areas, office parks and elsewhere,” so as to eliminate range anxiety and range limitations.
Nissan will also begin selling and install their own 49 kw 200v three-phase chargers in Japan, which can recharge a LEAF to 80 percent capacity in under 30 minutes. 200 units will be deployed through the country. Nisan have also partnered with US based Ecotality via a DOE grant to install fast charging stations throughout the five initial US markets as well.
Ghosn said the US LEAF handraiser list has reached 130,000, and that there are now 13,000 people who have already placed a $99 pre-order. He reported that only consumers are on this list, and not fleet operators.
Ghosn made these remarks in a meeting with reporters. Last week I also requested an interview with Mr. Ghosn. Nissan spokesperson Jessica Reed replied, “Sorry, not at this time.”
Source (Wall Street Journal) and (WSJ)
+35
May 25th, 2010 (6:21 am)Of course. He can’t say this isn’t going to work as he builds over 500,000 of them.
From the article:
“My biggest worry is that this market is going to grow too fast,” he said “And we will be under capacity.”
I worry about this too, but for GMs sake.
The Volt number is very low and I really think it is going to take off. GM won’t be close to prepared to sell 500,000 Volts by 2013. Don’t get me wrong, I want the Volt to sell. But I want GM to be prepared to sell, sell, sell. Not sit on the sidelines and say, “Shoot. We misjudged customer demand.”
+1
May 25th, 2010 (6:33 am)I hope Ghosn is right about his projections of coming EV demand.
Now, lets get prepared for the floodgates to open of “Oh Nissan is going to take over the world with EV’s and GM is unprepared again, blah, blah, blah….” Just because you can throw $100 bucks of your own money for Nissan to keep and sit on, doesn’t impress me a whole lot. Geez, if so many people are anxious to get rid of a $100 dollar bill burning a hole in their pocket…send it to me! LOL! The article says the Leaf won’t be ready until the end of the year, so in essence, the same time the Volt will launch. The Nissan pre-order crowd won’t be getting their cars any faster, will they? Am I missing something?
At the end of the day, I wish Nissan well with their EV endeavors. I really do. But the EREV philosophy employed in the Volt is the only way to go IMO.
+5
May 25th, 2010 (6:36 am)Where to begin???
Ghosn: “I think the risk that Nissan is taking with this vehicle is much lower than any other vehicle we are renewing.”
Personally, I think the biggest risk they are taking is in pushing a BEV with no thermal management for the battery.
Ghosn: Nissan is agressively pursuing agreements with goverments and businesses to install public charging in” parking garages, shopping areas, office parks and elsewhere,” so as to eliminate range anxiety and range limitations.
Wishful thinking? What incentive do cash-strapped governments have to create a recharging network to assist one car manufacturer?
Ghosn: Nissan will also begin selling and install their own 49 kw 200v three-phase chargers in Japan, which can recharge a LEAF to 80 percent capacity in under 30 minutes.
More trouble for the battery pack? Everything I’ve read says that this sort of ultra-fast charge degrades battery life/capacity.
All this said, I have to respect that man for putting his company where his mouth is, so to speak. If he is right, and if the Leaf sells inthe numbers he hopes, the Leaf could be the Model T of the 21st century — a car that changed the auto industry.
But I still won’t go near it. Gimme a Volt!
+7
May 25th, 2010 (6:45 am)All of this would be interesting to just sit back and watch, but I want to buy a Volt!
+23
May 25th, 2010 (6:47 am)As it stands, Nissan is investing $5 billion into building EVs, and plans to sell 50,000 LEAFs globally in 2011 and 2012, and then an additional 500,000 per year starting in 2013
It’s wonderful to hear optimism about electric cars from an important automotive executive.
I wish it was gm, but if that is not to be, it’s great that Nissan is willing to take the lead.
+21
May 25th, 2010 (6:53 am)Last week I also requested an interview with Mr. Ghosn. Nissan spokesperson Jessica Reed replied, “Sorry, not at this time.”
Lyle, please keep trying. Ghosn is still learning who is who in the new world.
May 25th, 2010 (6:55 am)Define “electric vehicle”. Is that just pure BEV’s or does it include plugins like the Volt, and/or hybrids like the Prius?
I think Nissan will be making a EREV soon. I don’t think the market is that big for pure BEV’s.
Is the an industry-wide standard for the high-voltage charger plugs ..SAE??
+1
May 25th, 2010 (7:02 am)Test drive of Leaf test mule in England:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/nissan/7724547/Nissan-Leaf-review.html
+2
May 25th, 2010 (7:02 am)We all know the Deloitte predictions are rubbish. Proven wrong already. I agree with Ghosn, there is enormous pent-up demand. But that demand is for “equivalent price/performance/features”. We all want to get off oil, no pollution or CO2.
+11
May 25th, 2010 (7:03 am)I wish GM had a $99 save your place in line. It would be interesting to see how many Volts would get reserved.
I have my $99 Leaf reservation because I want to get my car ASAP, don’t want to wait until some Oil Shock or middle east war and then it will be impossible to get your hands on a Leaf or Volt. I’d wait a little longer for a Volt over a leaf depending on the price of course. Either car I want a 3 year lease to carry me over till the next Gen.
+7
May 25th, 2010 (7:11 am)GM can’t be concerned about meeting customer demand until it can sell the Volt at a profit. The more it meets customer demand for Gen 1 vehicles the more money GM loses. It is between a rock and a hard place until gen 2 or 3. If Nissan is also losing money on their gen 1 Leaf they will simply lose more money than GM by selling more. So I guess GM and Nissan have to measure the desirability of market share versus the cost to obtain it.
+18
May 25th, 2010 (7:11 am)I hope most car companies aren’t sitting back and watching. But I think most aren’t. I see the Germans waking up, with VW making a big deal with Toshiba’s SCiB battery plant, Mercedes starting from the top down and putting innovative hybrid V-6 systems in S Class (years behind Lexus, but it’s a start), and waving around multiple EV compact Mercedes and SmartEVs at every auto show in Europe. Domestics? Ford seems to be taking the very, v-e-r-y cautious approach and Fiat/Chrysler is just in disarray it seems.
For GM, I borrowed the slogan: “LEAD, FOLLOW OR GET OUT OF THE WAY“. Hopefully I don’t have to amend that to: ” LEAF, FOLLOW OR GET OUT OF THE WAY”.
I say hats off to Ghosn bigtime! In my opinion he is steering Nissan into a situation where it will leapfrog Prius and not GM. Nissan needs to make bold moves in the Japanese market as it has been the slowpoke, borrower of Hybrid Synergy Drive for Altima, like Ford — and just a company with some bright spots, but nothing really stellar, unless you love the 350-370Z, and the slick Infinitys of late. Truly, with this move Nissan could grab large market share of this emerging market. By the time the others catch up, they’ll be on their 3rd generation battery pack – and have all that juicy green goodwill that Toyota has been lapping up for years with Prii.
Really, to forge ahead with electrics at this point is gutsy for sure. But no guts no glory. Nissan will have the crown of first to mass produce plug in electrics forever. What’s that worth?
As for sales – no problemo, just show pictures of U.S. soldiers guarding Baghdad’s Oil Ministry, the BP Oil Catastrophe’s damaged wildlife in Louisiana’s wetlands and toss in a couple shots of brown air hovering over major cities [ The Leaf with plug below those shots ] A picture is worth millions of words — bingo bango bingo! Millions of sales!
( I’ll take my advertising bonus check in large bills, please )
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME
In case you missed it, Nissan agreed to sell the Seattle area’s largest Utility 1000+ Leafs – in turn King County agreed to install over 2200 regular and quick charging stations – and other city’s have followed suit – Phoenix for one…
+7
May 25th, 2010 (7:21 am)Too bad this guy isn’t working for GM that’s the kind of vision and leadership they need. Snooze you lose, I hope Gm is watching. I think Americans are ready for this kind of paradighm shift. The thought of driving and not using gas time has come. I think once it starts its going to explode and those that are ready like Nissan are going to be huge winners. I think those polsters underestimate the segment of people that live and die by gas prices they would jump at the oppurtunity to not have to go out and buy that last tank of cheep gas before it goes up. How many times have seen those long lines of people at gas stations. Imagine the commercials that will be made about the Volt and the Leaf. YOU ALL HAVE WAY UNDERESTMATED THE POWER OF ADVERTISING IN AMERICA. If gas goes over $4.00/gal and stays there this will be huge.
-5
May 25th, 2010 (7:26 am)If Carlos Ghosh is as confident about the styling of the Leaf as much as he is about the sales of the Leaf, then his predictions will be a big failure. I think the Leaf is an ugly car! Most buyers primarily consider the looks of a car before anything else when shopping for a car.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (7:31 am)GM is not telling you this, but with their flex line, they can build all the Volts they want in short order.
+2
May 25th, 2010 (7:31 am)Most buyers primarily consider the looks of a car before anything else when shopping for a car.
What, you want people in lines at the gas station to notice you as you drive by?
-8
May 25th, 2010 (7:34 am)The lead he is taking is to bankruptcy!!
+2
May 25th, 2010 (7:40 am)That’s reality even if you don’t like it!
+5
May 25th, 2010 (7:43 am)When fast charging the battery, by keeping within the 20%- 80% SOC range, no harm to the battery life will occur. It’s about the last 10% that the charge rate has to be slowed down.
I believe Ghosn is right about demand. But only true sales will give the correct picture of how well EV’s will be excepted. Nissan is smart about taking orders in advance of sales. It has given them a better picture of demand. I expect GM to do the same just prior to the Volt’s launch.
Since GM will be selling the Volt world wide, i.e. under the Holden name in Australia and as an Ampera in Europe, etc., I expect to see information come forth on production plants throughout the World. GM won’t be standing by not prepared to ramp up production. The creation of a new production line to build any new model vehicle takes several years. GM already has engineered and built such a production line for the Volt so that they only need to replicate that design. They have engineered the equipment and have lined up tooling companies to manufacturing that tooling, etc. If need be they will be capable of producing sufficient car numbers.
Some time ago, there was an article on automotive manufactures moving away from flexible production lines capable of being changed to different models production equipment. Here, GM is being wise; should the sale of Ev’s impact against ICE vehicles, GM can switch their production lines over to Ev’s. I am not so concerned about their ability to ramp up. I am aware of the low expectation that is being voiced at this time by GM. But that will change as we see the real demand appear. All that needs to be is for GM to be prepared and have plans ready to execute if need be.
Happy trails to you until we meet again.
+5
May 25th, 2010 (7:46 am)The thing you have to admit is that Mr. Ghosn is at present the worlds leading advocate for electric cars. And though I’ve wanted a Volt from day one, I have to admit I’d rather have a BEV if range limitations were not part of the equation. I’m definitely leaning toward a three year lease with the Volt to see how it all shakes out. I think the sky is the limit for the EV revolution and a 40 mile EV range may seem pretty underwhelming a lot quicker than we think.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (7:52 am)I think by 2014 – 90% of car sales will be from cars with a plug. Either EV, EREV or Plug-in Hybrids. The split between the three will be more difficult to predict, but imo EREV could lead if product availability is not an issue.
Only 169 days left until Volt launch date 11/10/2010.
I want my Volt.
The True Dual Fuel Vehicle. TDFV
NPNS!
+11
May 25th, 2010 (7:59 am)In 2002 GM Sold 27,793 Pontiac Azteks.
The Aztek has the dubious distinction of being voted #1 in it’s “100 Ugliest Cars Of All Time”. Time Magazine called it “one of the worst cars ever built”.
So there goes your looks argument, up in smoke. A friend photoshopped the Leaf in black, it didn’t look that bad – seems dark colors do it justice, and many in this world value the “form follows function” rule – and Leaf is very aero —- fishlike —- but aero. Oh vanity vanity – don’t rear your conceited head
. Plus, when I think of cars, I immediately think of women ( I already see Jackson whipping out that infamous “she’s taken” picture……..again ). If the Aztek were a woman, she’d be Dame Edna! If Leaf were a woman, she’d be that girl you were fixed up with by friends, and at first glance, she looked plain, and even a bit awkward, but after the first date, you learned she loved to cook, drink beer and dug the NFL. Suddenly – she was a whole lot more attractive!!!!! L 
L
If GM could sell 127,000 Azteks between 2001-2006, I don’t think the Leaf will have too much trouble winning the public over. Wait ’til you see one silently whisk by you on the freeway and you realize that person is using zeroooooo gas!
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME
Fun Aztek Facts:
* The Aztek was one of the first automobiles to be designed entirely using computerized rapid-prototyping/rapid-visualization tools[citation needed].
* The Aztek’s dashboard was designed by NASA contractor Johnson Controls, and featured Pontiac’s trademark red lighting scheme along with an optional heads-up display.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (8:05 am)I sincerely hope Nissan succeeds.
I like the idea of a pure EV, but I think we are at least several years away for wide adoption.
I see no reason why anyone would say no if the car had a quick charge with significant range.
+4
May 25th, 2010 (8:08 am)Make it nonrefundable. All deposits that are not followed with a Volt sale go directly into Gulf Coast Oil Spill Disaster Relief Fund. I’m in right now.
=D-Volt
+4
May 25th, 2010 (8:09 am)We don’t need $4 gas. We need the public to see and drive electric cars. Once everyone experiences the power and smooth quiet ride, electrics will take off.
It’s the zero-to-one-block-to-zero time that matters most to commuters. Zero-to-60 doesn’t even matter in gridlock. It has to look good and have a descent interior as well. Comfort matters.
I only need 40 to 50miles true AER to do my daily thing. A BEV100 would work for 95% of my needs. I have other vehicles for the rest.
Nissan has made a good effort with LEAF. I need a better-looking, higher-end ride.
Diamond white pearl Volt SS with leather FTW!
May 25th, 2010 (8:22 am)By around 2020, I predict half of all new cars sold will be EREVs. Early adopters will love BEVs, but the mainstram public won’t. BEV’s will remain a niche market, perhaps around 5% of total.
By the way, I use the term “EREV” pretty loosely. Any car that uses electricity as its primary source of fuel, but still runs on gas or biofuels.
+3
May 25th, 2010 (8:30 am)The thing you have to admit is that Mr. Ghosn is at present the worlds leading advocate for . . . Mr. Ghosn ($$$).
+4
May 25th, 2010 (8:33 am)If you notice, that picture of the Aztek looks ALOT like quite a few cars on the road today. I think the Aztek was ahead of its time. Some of the things on the road today make the Aztek look tame. Funny how the domestic offering is treated so differently than those from overseas companies. It looks no worse than an Element, a Cube, the Scion XB box, Subaru Tribeca, Mitsubishi Outlander, the new Acuras are hideous too. Wonder if these companies will be lampooned like Pontiac was??
+5
May 25th, 2010 (8:37 am)“My biggest worry is that this market is going to grow too fast,” he said “And we will be under capacity.”
My biggest worry is that the leaf will be low quality junk and hurt the EV market.
We still know very little about this car.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (8:40 am)Yea, but the big difference is that with $99 , I am in line for a Leaf. I have no way to know when I might get a Volt or how much it cost.
+6
May 25th, 2010 (8:49 am)Here is a scenerio:
You take your Leaf for a drive that is further then the battery range. You use the Leaf Nav system to locate a fast charge station. Once you get there, you find out that you are 4th in line. That is a 2 hour wait with two options; risk being stranded attempting to make it to then next station or wait.
How many people have that much flexibility in there life ?
+3
May 25th, 2010 (8:49 am)Fish “fly” through an even stickier Fluid than the Volt and Leaf have to contend with.
May 25th, 2010 (8:56 am)Let us hope GM is not one of those car companies that state “we did not see this coming” i.e hugh demand for the VOLT.
Build, build, build, 24/7, build.
May 25th, 2010 (9:03 am)#22 – James
I would be interested in seeing how the Leaf does look in black. I was thinking what a butt ugly car, but I think it may look better in black. If the Leaf had a 200 mile range, I would consider it, but the 100 is too short for me to have a Leaf as an only car.
#26 – Dave_G
I hope the outlook for EV or EREV will be that good, just don’t think so. People are resistant to change. I would like to see GM make the Volt more versital. Battery packs in 40/100/200 mile capability along with having the ability to pick from various types of ER options (gasoline, fuel cells of whatever). I also wish the GenSet would be easily removable so I could remove the genset for most of the time and only place it in when I need RANGE.
Cars need a huge change and I am hoping the Volt and Nissan will start that in motion.
May 25th, 2010 (9:04 am)Yes when the Aztek was first out it was the worse looking thing on the road but to day it would look great next to a Cube. Or any of the others you listed.
Why would anyone buy a Cube? But they sell some so yes you can sell ugly cars.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (9:06 am)______________________________________________________________
Nissan’s Carlos Ghosn: +1
Interesting bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ghosn
Nissan’s Jessica Reed (for not granting Lyle and interview with Ghosn): +1
Because Lyle is Ghosn’s alter ego and therefore it may cause an unsafe condition for Lyle to interview his own self.
_______________________________________________________________
+4
May 25th, 2010 (9:08 am)How many early adopters will research the car, determine it fits their needs, get to the front of the line, complete the new new car purchase process; and suddenly become such poor planning disorganized incompetents that they find themselves in this position at a critical time? Repeatedly?
Though I too would like a Volt, I strongly believe that worrying about BEV buyers getting stranded is woefully misplaced. Let them worry about their own trip planning, I’m sure they’ll both know what they need and be much smarter than the average cartoon character doing it. Relax, worry about something that should be worried about.
There’s so much more to worry about. Though I suspect much of that will be worked out also, without me even getting up off the old recliner, yawn.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (9:09 am)Keep pushing for that interview Lyle.
Don’t forget everyone: Lyle drives an EV not an EREV.
From the article:
“Ghosn actually believes even that pace could be too slow. He worries demand may actually exceed his expecations because sales may skyrocket once the public finally sees these cars in action.
“My biggest worry is that this market is going to grow too fast,” he said “And we will be under capacity.”—-end quote
As you know I am at the top of the list for one of these cars in Phoenix and Nissan is installing a fairly extensive charging infrastructure here. Although I would rather have a Volt, I just might buy a Leaf and then sell it when the Volt becomes available. Who knows maybe I could drive the car for next to nothing. After all I will be getting an 18000$ battery pack with a vehicle on top of it for only 25000$.
+5
May 25th, 2010 (9:10 am)As somewhat answered by someone else, charging to 80 percent in under 30 minutes is not a fast charge from the battery cells’ point of view, this is a “2C” charge at most. Some hobby lipos can be charged at up to 5C these days. Not a big deal. The issues are more in the areas of power delivery and charging circuitry (and safety!).
Stopping the charge at about 80 percent saves a lot of time, since this means you only did the “CC” (constant-current) phase and skipped the “CV” (constant-voltage) phase, which takes a long time since the current goes lower and lower as you creep towards 100% full (4.2V/cell). I don’t recall seeing the exact capacity range used by the LEAF, but I’m assuming it also doesn’t use 100% of the battery capacity(?).
And while on the subject, lipos do NOT heat up during charging, even when you kick up the charge rate. If they do heat up you are in big trouble. They can put out heat during discharge, but only under high currents or when they are nearly empty. The charging circuitry may heat up, but not the battery cells themselves. These aren’t NiCds.
+3
May 25th, 2010 (9:12 am)I always admire someone willing to be passionate about a change that can effect the world positively. Sometimes I’m surprised at the skepticism, even on this site. After the horrible continuing oil spill in the gulf, we should all be even more enthusiastic about going electric.
May 25th, 2010 (9:12 am)Nah. The Aztek’s ugly. So is the Leaf. Ahead of the time, yes, but ugly.
James’s argument for the Aztek doesn’t wash either (I really like the SCIB thought, though). 127,000 cars sold in 6 years at that price is a production failure.
The Leaf will sell, just not so much in the US market. In China, Japan, and France drivers just don’t go as far as we do. The Chevrolet Volt and Opel Ampera will be the upmarket choice for primary EV drivers in those countries. In the US, the Leaf will be an endearing, homely, but lovable, 2nd car as long as it’s reliable. Exceptionally useful as a commuter car, GM numbers prove that, but best kept out of sight, in the garage, hidden somewhere behind a bush.
Ultimately, though, the Leaf is not for me since the Volt offers a better choice.
ps. why would Lance Armstrong endorse a car that couldn’t make it past the 2nd leg of the Tour de France?
+5
May 25th, 2010 (9:20 am)Not sure where that’s coming from since he has already risked billions of dollars to put EV’s on the road. Honest criticism of windbags, pump and dumps, unfundable science projects is understood, but this guy has put both his company’s money and his career future on the line for this.
+2
May 25th, 2010 (9:25 am)Hum, I wonder where GM would be today if it hadn’t crushed its electric car program?
+1
May 25th, 2010 (9:32 am)Would be a slam dunk campaign for the Volt, but bad for their profitable vehicles–the big’ns. Never make your key customers feel bad about themselves. However, if used in conjunction w/ ads touting the large hybrids, then you might have something.
+11
May 25th, 2010 (9:32 am)I agree, Rashiid! I was talking recently with a brilliant engineer/scientist I’ve admired greatly for over 40 years, a man who made major contributions to NASA’s original “moon shot” program. He asked me how well I thought the car-buying public will accept the Volt. He then gave me his answer by reminding me that in the 1940s & 50s many locomotive designers and railroad experts were extremely doubtful that the world’s railroad lines would quickly accept the new diesel/electric locomotive over the tried & true steam locomotives then used universally. The new electric architecture, similar to the Volt’s series hybrid design in that the locomotive’s wheels are driven ONLY by electric motors, surprised even the “believers” by virtually replacing the steam engine —and within only about 10 years!
I agree with my cerebral friend/colleague —when even today’s worst EREV skeptics realize the huge advantages of range-extended EVs, the global market will demand
VAST numbers of them within the first few years GM begins marketing the Volt!!!
May 25th, 2010 (9:37 am)What did I hear on 60 Minutes the other night: there are 7 billion people on the planet and 5 billion of them have cell phones. 54 million cell phones sold in the last quarter. More and more, automobiles are leaning towards becoming glorified appliances and as such the pace of adoption will be much faster than most anticipate.
Sure, a car is not a cell phone, but whether it’s personal computers or personal transportation devices, when something is introduced that people want, we glom onto it readily.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (9:38 am)If you that’s all there is to it, we need to sit down and talk. Look closely at the picture in # 12 by RECHARGE! James. If you said that I would be interested in the best looking cars that help us avoid that situation ever again, you’d be absolutely correct.
+4
May 25th, 2010 (9:41 am)What you’re missing is that GM is SEVERELY misjudging demand for the Volt. If you look at the Nintendo Wii, stores couldn’t even keep them in stock, they would get 9 or 10 every few days which would be gone in minutes, and there were so many people that wanted one that it took over 2 years and a mammoth recession to slow demand enough so that supply could finally catch up, and there probably would’ve been many more sales in the mean time if people. Now imagine GM is planning on building around 20,000 Volts a year for the ENTIRE WORLD. Think about how many people in Asia, Europe, and the UK that pay $8/gallon for gas, Latin America, Canada, the yuppies in the US will be clamoring for this kind of technology especially as this oil spill gets worse and worse it’s making more and more anti oil zealots, government fleets, delivery fleets, taxi fleets, the world over, that means that of the 50 million or so cars bought each year, say conservatively 1/0th of those people want an EREV, that’s 5 million sales a year, sorry, 250 people are trying to get their hands on an EREV for every 1 made.
Now what happens if and when another oil shock hits? That’s what Ghosn is saying when he says he’s worried 500,000 won’t be enough.
+3
May 25th, 2010 (9:41 am)And why would Nissan gamble on an endorser that couldn’t do the same, without alledgedly “recharging” (i.e., doping) himself? On that comical level, the 2 are made for each other.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (9:45 am)It was partly humor and partly pointing out that Mr. Ghosn is not promoting LEAFs and other EVs for altruistic motives. He is in business. Lyle, PIA people, and others are advocating EVs for other than self serving reasons. That doesn’t make Ghosn bad, just not so praise worthy as an advocate.
The jury is out on whether he is to praised as a businessman. Time will tell. I think he was against EVs before he was for EVs.
+3
May 25th, 2010 (9:45 am)And they’ll get the battery cells from Pep Boys or buy them on eBay, right? According to LG Chem, battery cell capacity at its plant is enough cells for 50,000 Volt packs a year. And it takes several years to get a new battery plant up and running. Moreover, there are doubtless other parts we know nothing about which are unique to the Volt, and you/we have no idea how easily GM could secure more supply of those parts.
A new product with many unique parts and limited suppliers presents severe logistical hurdles. So no, GM can’t simply change the mix on its one of the two lines at Hamtramck which is suitable for producing cars.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (9:47 am)This over capacity / under capacity is giving me a headache. In my mind, Its over capacity if you can’t make enough. I.E we are at 110%, 10% over capacity. I believe he is afraid he can’t make enough. I wish GM had that fear.
Nissan LEAF = low quality junk? I doubt it. It isn’t positron drive — its been done before.
Crank it up Nissan! Good for you!
+3
May 25th, 2010 (9:47 am)Of course follwing in GM’s footsteps right?
+4
May 25th, 2010 (9:53 am)And the Prius is ugly to many here as well as yourself, however, the well over 2million sold indactes you are wrong.
+3
May 25th, 2010 (10:04 am)Totally agree, not just for Nissan but for all Full 100% Electric vehicles. Be it car or motorcycle, let’s gett off products from the sand lands.
I gave you a +1. My first vote ever.
May 25th, 2010 (10:06 am)I seriously doubt that lack of Volts will be an issue starting next year (2012 model year). Yeah, the first year will be painful.
GM is the largest car company in the world. They got ~18 months to ramp up production. They build One-Million cars before lunch and sweep the cash in after lunch. (Think Dr. Evil’s misconception of the scope of One-Million.)
If anybody is still waiting for a Camaro, they got a whole row of them over at my local Chevy dealer. Oh wait, GM built enough to fill all the orders with some left over. Hmmm… guess that Camaro shortage thing was a blip in the news.
2012 and 2013 will be very interesting if we can keep the world economy from collapsing again (or further, depending on your personal status.) Although the DJIA is not important to me, it’s below 10,000 today which is psychologically bad news.
BTW, the US government just slapped a tax on crude. (To fund ‘clean up efforts’, but, it goes into the general fund anyway.) This is actually fairly politically smart as it’s not a direct tax on gasoline but will have the same effect.
Crisis is good. It will focus our efforts.
+3
May 25th, 2010 (10:13 am)Funny you should say this. I was thinking exactly the same thing last week when I saw an Aztek on the road — hadn’t seen one in years. As for the ugliest current car, I’d vote for the FJ Cruiser.
It’s a confluence of many things that make the timing right. And timing is everything. But from comments here GM needs to be making at least an MPV in addition to the Volt.
The problem is that GM’s management is so timid that, if they did movies, all we’d see from them is James Bond movies. Too many useless focus groups that tell you what you already know and not enough vision to understand the zeitgeist of the world. As Lutz explained the process, the demand estimators looked at the size of the Volt and the cost and came up with the demand. Are you kidding?
If you applied that logic to the installation of solar panels there would be zero home solar systems — they don’t really pencil out — costing 3x more for a commodity that you can’t even see and which you can’t buy if you live in a rental or take with you if you move. But there were more than 16K people willing to do that last year alone. You have to think that there would be 10x to 20x more people ready to pay a far more modest premium for a great car that has the coolest technology which everyone can see and which you can take on any road in the country.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (10:15 am)Does it affect the cost of refined gasoline that we import?.. will it affect our refineries?
May 25th, 2010 (10:17 am)How about a nice lithium ion lawn mower!! Any kid would make a pretty cool go kart out of one!
+1
May 25th, 2010 (10:27 am)I have friends/relatives that love their Azteks and would buy another one. As far as its looks, I think it was ahead of its time. Now you have all of the strange looking Prius’s, Scions, Nissan Cubes, etc. Beauty is in the eye of beerholder, and I dont think anyone can actually generalize what is “good looking” for everyone.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (10:28 am)I don’t think they’re misjudging it, I think they don’t have the courage to act on their suspicions that demand will be higher than they’ve planned for. I get the distinct impression that GM’s corporate culture punishes failures more than it rewards successes. IOW no one is going to get dismissed or demoted because demand exceeds predictions, but you’re out the door if demand falls short of predictions. As a consequence, at GM the term “bold management” is an oxymoron.
This “go slow avoid mistakes” approach is also know as “the road to bankruptcy”.
May 25th, 2010 (10:29 am)127,000 azteks is not a major success. Anyway, I, for one, think that the LEAF will still sell. But I also think that the sheer ugliness of the car will reduce demand. Especially if other companies put better looking EVs on the market. Which could easily happen.
May 25th, 2010 (10:29 am)Probably no Volt and LEAF.. by bringing out an electric car prematurely it probably would have poisoned the market.
May 25th, 2010 (10:29 am)Isn’t LG building a plant in Holland, Michigan? Volt (and hybrid Sonata) batteries should be popping out of there in 2013! Just in time for Volt gen2.
http://gas2.org/2010/03/12/lg-chem-to-build-300-million-battery-plant-in-michigan/
+1
May 25th, 2010 (10:32 am)I don’t find this number to be very significant over the life of the Prius.
Really, what serious competition did it have? Honda came closest and that’s not saying a whole lot.
EREV does need to improve to at least a 5 passenger car. But it will.
40 MPC is nothing to sneeze at when the current Prius gets about 2 MPC and the plugin about 10 MPC. You want off of oil? I totally agree with you as I truly hate those governments in the Middle East. But the Volt will use way less gas than the Prius, and the LEAF is too limited.
May 25th, 2010 (10:34 am)It applies to imports as well as domestically produced oil. At this point it’s just a proposal which will be considered as part of a grab bag of tax issues considered this summer by Congress. Should pass easily. It’s not, however, a very large tax.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (10:35 am)As limiting as the Leaf would be, the people buying it would be the the same type of people who dumped their SUVs in a knee-jerk reaction when gas went over $4 per hall, and traded it in for a compact, fuel efficient, car. The monthly car payment hit they took was more than what they would have paid for fuel on their SUV. When fuel prices went back down again, the population realized how much the small car limited their lifestyle, and people started buying SUVs again.
People are not rational. They make bad choices–especially when you have Nissan Leaf car salesmen making decisions for you. At least with the Volt, you’re not going to be tethered by a charging station when you want to venture for a one hour drive away from home… and one hour is not that far from home. Make that 30 minutes if you want your A/C or heater on.
May 25th, 2010 (10:40 am)i wonder what would be the drag coaff for Aztek ? .
Lot of times Aztek didnt feel like ugly but a poorly executed good thoughts – zdx, x6 all have the kammaback .Aztek was a bit over styled but it was an easy fix. Another problem may be kammaback as it reduces the utility space – so acceptability as a mass market vehicle has limitations unless it can bring a big difference in fuel economy and fuel is expensive.
The real problems i thought with aztek was its build quality and negative attitude towards innovation because 2001 to 2006 big SUVs were selling high and GM never thought of application of new technologies to aztek – May be it was right for it to come as a Saturn and initial trials for a the 2 mode hybrid power train.
The Volt MPV can come really using the Aztek as a platform – stying change to volt style – build quality change – optimize the drag coaff and keep as a low volume seller –
On nissan – last day was reading some other post on nissan’s fast charging infrastructure in Japan (30 minutes charging stations ). I wonder we may hear on leaf fire incidents more (like nano ) because some other post said fast charging creates some fible like growth in li-ion batteries which is the cause of fires.
The guys who say aztek – read this too : “The Aztek had among the highest CSI (Customer Satisfaction Index) scores in its class, and won the appellation of “Most Appealing Entry Sport Utility Vehicle” in 2001 from J.D. Power and Associates, an independent consumer survey organization who noted: “The Aztek scores highest or second highest in every APEAL component measure except exterior styling.”" – from Wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Aztek
+3
May 25th, 2010 (10:43 am)People only resist change when their forced into it.
For example, if someone made a high definition TV that wasn’t capable of playing standard definition content, very few people would buy it. If BluRay players didn’t play DVDs, nobody would buy them.
That’s why EREV will go mainstream in a big way. Nothing forces you to plug in. People can run on gas all the time if they want, just like they do now. But if you do plug in every night, you’ll only have to go to gas station every 3 months. Since most people hate going to the gas station, they’ll usually remember to plug in.
Bottom line: Most people will embrace something new as long as they can revert back to the old way whenever they want, and as long as it doesn’t cost too much more.
May 25th, 2010 (10:45 am)The Camaro bottleneck was typical popular new car release problem. GM had allotted enough long term capacity. But it took them a while to meet the bottled up demand from people waiting for the car. With the Volt, they haven’t allotted enough capacity to meet the demand. It’s a completely different situation.
Yes. GM produces a lot of cars. But you can’t build a Volt on an assembly line meant to build malibus.
A crude oil tax is a fabulous idea. In fact, it’s even better than a gas tax, IMHO, because it affects all uses of oil. Not just transportation. Unfortunately, that does mean it will raise the cost of just about everything…but, hopefully, it will help incentive people to find alternatives. For everything. Not just cars.
However, the current tax under discussion is 32 cents a barrel. You generally get roughly 20 gallons of gasoline per barrel. You do the math.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (11:00 am)Sorry but you are dead wrong. Most people felt and said the same thing for Prius Gen 1, 2, 3 but look, it is a win-win now for the Prius. 50 mpg is very attractive regardless the shape. 100 mp almost nothing is way more attractive.
Me 2 cents
+2
May 25th, 2010 (11:01 am)#3
Me too. +1
+1
May 25th, 2010 (11:01 am)You have to admire the man’s gusto for the electric vehicle market. I just hope for Nissan, and the electric car movement, that his gusto is well placed and will be proven true. I have seriously considered placing a deposit on a Leaf because I don’t think I will get to see a Volt in my “neck of the woods” until 2013. The Leaf would serve me well for daily commutes (20 miles round trip) and short trips to the store and such. Even after retirement the Leaf would be advantageous to me for those short trips around town. I am going to seriously consider it, but I really prefer to own a Volt. I have been participating on this site since 2007 and have been patiently waiting on the Volt but, as time draws closer to the Volt launch I see signs of GM delaying stepping up production. This limited production plan will make it more difficult for someone like me to ever see a Volt except when driven by someone who does not mind paying much higher than sticker price for a Volt. Price gouging will be rampant. That is going to spell doom for the Volt. The bad stink will rise up and haunt the market and will turn off many potential buyers like me.
Time will tell. Maybe GM has a “plan” to handle this, but at this time I can’t see anything they are doing that will help. I see a lot more that will hurt. But we can always hope. Yeah, hope.
May 25th, 2010 (11:01 am)No Thermal management system for the batteries… sort of like Toyota building trucks with no rust protection for their frames…. the bad thing is our government is giving them our taxpayer money while they put a huge tariff on our products shipped to thier market… now they willl rush to market electric cars which may give EV’s a bad name.
May 25th, 2010 (11:02 am)You have to admit its a “ballsy” move.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (11:03 am)ICAM. If they want to find out the real demand, all they have to do is start a waiting list. With a non-refundable deposit.
Then they can get started on adding capacity sooner rather than later.
+4
May 25th, 2010 (11:04 am)I own an Aztek and it’s great. It’s hands-down the most utilitarian car I have ever owned, and other companies have blatantly copied the concept (Honda Element). Also, the Aztek is downright beautful compared to some of the Japanese abominations out there today (Nissan Cube, Honda Element, and ANYTHING with the Scion badge).
+1
May 25th, 2010 (11:08 am)I’m hoping that GM and LG have added capacity that they’re not telling us about. Not for the first year necessarily. But for 2012. After all, long lines at the initial release make a great advertisement. Just as long as they’re not permanent.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (11:08 am)#10
Me too. +1
May 25th, 2010 (11:15 am)“GM produces a lot of cars. But you can’t build a Volt on an assembly line meant to build malibus”
Actually, GM has said publicly that the present line at Hamtramck is capable of building Malibus as well as Volts —I was surprised and assume they have to dramatically alter the way drive trains, wheels, etc, etc are brought up to the line workers assembling the particular car.
Of course, I hope Hamtramck never produces anything BUT Chevy Volt models!
May 25th, 2010 (11:16 am)Don G said:
Since most people hate going to the gas station, they’ll usually remember to plug in.
Hey, I like gas stations, they have the best prices on cigarettes and beer.
May 25th, 2010 (11:19 am)#24
Me too. +1
May 25th, 2010 (11:24 am)In addition to the above very serious points, a guy at work who used to work at an auto plant that did vehicle launches pointed out that if GM built more than 10,000 of a car in one year it would trigger an additional expensive round of compliance testing (crash testing?). FWIW.
May 25th, 2010 (11:25 am)Bingo! That’s the plant which will supply all the cells for the Volt Gen I pack. All 50,000 of those packs. On the good side it is scheduled to come online in January of 2012 (probably not a full capacity though). So GM will not have to wait until 2013.
+2
May 25th, 2010 (11:28 am)Amen +1. Sometimes the most obvious solutions seem to escape the most subtle minds.
+2
May 25th, 2010 (11:30 am)What are you talking about.
I’ve seen many articles about the leaf that say it looks like an ordinary car – not like a g-wiz. That it looks like an every day european car, Peugeots, Fiat’s, Ford’s, Vaxhalls, small BMW’s, etc. It only looks ugly or odd to americans used to seeing 4x4s and pickup trucks that aren’t very streamlined and dominate the roads… and are about as streamlined as a brick.
May 25th, 2010 (11:35 am)Really? Talk about hedging your bets! But the real question is–can they switch over their current Malibu assembly lines to drastically increase Volt production? Unfortunately, I suspect the answer is no. Especially given the part bottleneck that DonC mentioned….
+1
May 25th, 2010 (11:38 am)You haven’t been to youtube then and seen all the videos, and the videos of people demoing it at various locations around the country, and the 2 charge points, and the controls, the dash, the computer / sat nav etc. There’s more videos of the LEAF on youtube than the VOLT!
May 25th, 2010 (11:43 am)Korea right now can supply 50,000 battery packs, no problem.
http://gm-volt.com/2009/04/23/lg-chem-has-begun-battery-plant-construction-for-chevy-volt-cells/
+1
May 25th, 2010 (11:44 am)You HAVENt done your research. I like the VOLT as much as the LEAF.
Nissan have thought of this. The demos on youtube of the console show how many places are available at each of the plugin stations on the satnav AND if they are the low speed / high speed charge port. The highspeed ones would charge it to 80% in 26 minutes (or assumedly 40% in 13 minutes = 40 miles range). So if youre 2 miles from a charge station and see 10 free charge spaces and one in use I think you wont have this problem.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (11:51 am)Think like businessmen – if three-phase chargers can work so quickly, how many diners along interstate 5 will install them and let clients charge for free? Private businesses can quickly build charging infrastructure between large cities, e.g. LA and SF. In this way problems with range of the BEVs is minimized.
+2
May 25th, 2010 (11:56 am)#77
Yeah, we have a friend who has one. The amount of room in the interior is really amazing. Likewise the cargo capacity with the rear seats folded down. The later ones with some or all of the body “cladding” deleted weren’t bad looking at all, IMHO. Certainly no worse that a Cube, Soul, or Scion Xb, as you correctly observe, IMHO. A highly underrated vehicle, if you ask me. All credit to you for the courage of your convictions, LOL +1
+1
May 25th, 2010 (11:59 am)Modern Marvels – on the History Channel – Had a program called “Freight Trains” – They made a point about the “game changer” from Steam to Diesel/Electric. When the first “Serious Diesel /Electric came out on 1939 it single handily ended the age of steam”
I agree will all written above about the Volt being the reason there WILL BE A Shift to Electric Vehicles vs plain Gas powered cars. Gulf oil issues, soon to rise again price of gas, and pollution concerns will encourage folks to keep looking for a viable option. The VOLT is that viable option.
May 25th, 2010 (12:00 pm)#76
Amen. +1
+2
May 25th, 2010 (12:00 pm)totally agree – excellent comment – until now all cars despite the marketing carry 4-7 people and travel on a liquid fuel that costs a lot and is noisy and polluting. The LEAF and VOLT will tear up the rule book. Demand is being seriously underestimated at GM.
May 25th, 2010 (12:01 pm)But they can’t ship the packs to the US cost effectively, which is why they’re building the plant in Michigan. As Tesla found when they tried to import battery packs, you can as a physical matter ship concrete from Wisconsin to New York, but that’s not practical as an economic matter.
Also, you’re assuming that the supply from LG Chem is Korea isn’t already allocated. Any information as to the status on that? (Just curious).
May 25th, 2010 (12:02 pm)Think like a home owner. Don’t stress my power plant by recharging during the day. Before you know it my bill will go up to finance new plant capacity. I don’t want my tax dollars (gov subsidies for charge stations will be out there I’m sure) going towards raising my electric rates.
If you want to charge during the day? You pay for it directly. Reducing dependence on foreign oil can be done at night, off peak, when I’m sleeping. No daytime brown outs for me please.
ps. mind you the tone of this is ultimately positive because I’m taking it for granted that the EV and it’s variations will rule private transportation soon!!!
another ps. Don’t a lot of service stations charge for air? I really don’t think a diner will just give away electrons.
May 25th, 2010 (12:06 pm)I don’t know of anyone asking for cell volume as per Chevrolet.
My point is that production capacity at GM isn’t limited by battery availability. Price vs market demand can easily have Korea allocate more batteries to GM.
+2
May 25th, 2010 (12:09 pm)Here we go again with Pep Boys. There are other battery suppliers besides LG and Pep Boys. LG’s capacity is not that well known especially 18 months into the future. Did we run out of LCD TV’s or refrigerators at some point? I don’t recall that moment in time.
I think that some are severely underestimating GM’s planning, logistical prowess, supplier-arm-twisting-ability and track record. Even in Corvette and Cadillac land (with many unique parts) they don’t drop the ball very often. With a high profile project like Volt, they’d be incredibly stupid and short-sighted to mess it up that badly.
This is not GM’s first rodeo. They are not building an entire new car company, just adding a car to the existing Chevy line. Granted, Volt’s a little different, but, not totally unmanageable.
I am optimistic that all logistical issues are well in hand. Heck, this isn’t even GM’s first electric car!
+3
May 25th, 2010 (12:10 pm)#12
Too bloody right. +1 Great photo, BTW.
The disaster on the gulf coast is just getting started. Pretty soon they will be able to show a photo of an oiled pelican on one hand, and a LEAF on the other, and ask the multiple billion dollar question, “Which would you rather have?”
+1
May 25th, 2010 (12:14 pm)Your wish is my command (
):
+1
May 25th, 2010 (12:17 pm)Nice picture of your wife, my friend.
+3
May 25th, 2010 (12:21 pm)This is what a good looking electric car can look like.
May 25th, 2010 (12:30 pm)Loboc:
“This is not GM’s first rodeo. They are not building an entire new car company, just adding a car to the existing Chevy line. Granted, Volt’s a little different, but, not totally unmanageable.
I am optimistic that all logistical issues are well in hand. Heck, this isn’t even GM’s first electric car!”
Definitely! For the Chevrolet showroom next summer, it may be more important to get the Cruze up to volume. Has anyone read the reviews on that car? It actually gives the Civic a run for it’s money. If GM puts the same quality control into the Cruze as it does in the Volt and Honda does for the Civic, the Cruze will be just as important to the viability of GM as a domestic manufacturer as will be the Volt.
In a Leaf showroom are the Sentra, Altima, and Maxima. In the Prius showroom are the Carolla and Camry. Chevy is finally getting into the game here.
+2
May 25th, 2010 (12:35 pm)I can’t find a single video of LEAF (production version, not Versa mule) on youtube. Got a link?
+3
May 25th, 2010 (12:35 pm)I am taking about real info. Like what is the batt warranty? In fact what is the warranty on the car? What is the real world range? with heat? with AC? In the hills? How has this car been tested? How will cold effect this car or setting in hot parking lot for 2 or 3 weeks?
May 25th, 2010 (12:41 pm)… and perhaps most important of all, Will the pack last more than 5 years? With Nissan’s information embargo, the greatest potential weakness of the LEAF design may not become evident until after half a million units are sold.
-1
May 25th, 2010 (12:50 pm)Checkout the facebook page created for the LEAF.
Go EV!!!
May 25th, 2010 (12:52 pm)I believe that the basic technology for the “solid state” GEN II Volt battery is being developed by Ceramatec in Utah:
http://www.ceramatec.com/technology/ceramic-solid-state-ionic-technologies/advanced-energy-storage/solid-electrolyte-batteries.php
(Full disclosure: The stated goal of Ceramatec in this research has always been to develop economical electric storage units for home use, not vehicles)
If I’m right (and the chemistry pans out), GM may be able to free itself from the current bottleneck imposed by foreign cell suppliers. At the very least, cells would be within a semi-trip, not an ocean voyage.
+3
May 25th, 2010 (1:03 pm)For the record, the picture is that of Margaret Taylor, wife of former president Zachary Taylor (which was downloaded in response to a troll’s suggestion that the troll-pic I use was actually that of my spouse).
I dare not show you guys a picture of my actual wife, I’d have to fight all of you off!
+1
May 25th, 2010 (1:16 pm)I don’t know about you, but if GM were to ever aquire Fisker (something I think they will do someday), I think your looking at the future electric version of the Vette. They are very similar…. particularly the C3′s.
BTW, as a Vette owner, I hate the idea of an electric Vette. If GM wants to do that, retire the Vette and call the new electric something else, like the Karma Stingray or something. Just don’t call it a Vette. But thats just me….
+1
May 25th, 2010 (1:25 pm)You are missing the point. 80% of the drivers will be charging at home at night. But there is the remaining 20% that need to travel longer distances. In fact, all 100% of drivers have to do it from time to time. It looks like you would prefer them to burn oil rather than drive electric. Anyway, businesses will do it for “free”, sort of – the same way Android operating system is “free”, or the same way Seattle airport offers “free” electric charging for long term parking right now… Do you get it now or are you a more serious case?
May 25th, 2010 (1:48 pm)Yep. Too bad they only have sealed lead-acid so far. Ya could get one of those Prii li-ion battery packs though. or this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Li-ion-Lithium-Iron-Phosphate-LiFePO4-battery-12V-40Ah-/230478086129?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35a9907ff1
I have a 36v B&D weed eater. It works as well as any gas one I’ve ever had, but, ya gotta have spare batteries to do the entire yard (1/2 acre). Very convenient and no oil/gas/mixing/hard-starting/pollution to worry about!
May 25th, 2010 (2:01 pm)I agree whole-heartedly.
If they do something ‘Vette-like’ in electric, it should be an entirely new car. Leave the current ‘Vette alone. If the new thing eats all the existing sales, then, let the old ‘Vette die with respect for it’s fire-breathing V-8 heritage. (I am a former owner of a vintage ‘Vette.)
May 25th, 2010 (2:28 pm)Split the difference for now for a smoother transition. Porsche 918 Spyder Hybrid.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (2:45 pm)So I can pat myself on the back as an EV advocate but when Ghosn puts billions on the line, invests his work-life into it, gets his workforce going on it, convinces the board, placates the investors and bondholders, massages the media and hammers out the details to make it work, it’s no fair to acknowledge it because he gets paid? Well alrighty then.
By the way, I don’t think Lyle is any less deserving because ALLCARSE… was sold, or because ads appear on this site. Nor do I believe you are not a terrific guy because you get paid from working. If it’s humor so be it, but regarding the not altruistic angle…I’m certainly willing to let it go if you are.
May 25th, 2010 (3:28 pm)Not that I disagree, but “on the other hand…” there was a recent PBS show about the effects of strip mining for coal in the Appalachians. I suppose one could make a tie between this type of damage and electric vehicles.
Every source of energy has its penalties. Electric is only clean AFTER it gets generated. Eventually the energy ends up as heat, which arguably is a pollutant also. Time to go live in a cave!
+3
May 25th, 2010 (3:33 pm)One often hears this sentence quoted, usually as a put-down. I think it is better stated as “People understand that change has a cos.t” Indeed it does, in money or time or both. Where things are going well people want to be sure that the benefits are greater than that cost.
Where benefits are clearly greater than cost, people are enthusiastic about change. We see that with the iPhone and iPad, neither of which is the lowest cost pathway to do something.
I think that will be true for electric cars also — overall benefit clearly outweighs any incremental cost. Mr. Ghosn (and Nissan) think so too. I hope gm does too, though lately I’m not so sure, but hope springs eternal.
+4
May 25th, 2010 (3:33 pm)One often hears this sentence quoted, usually as a put-down. I think it is better stated as “People understand that change has a cost” Indeed it does, in money or time or both. Where things are going well people want to be sure that the benefits to come are greater than that cost.
Where benefits are clearly greater than cost, people are enthusiastic about change. We see that with the iPhone and iPad, neither of which is the lowest cost pathway to do something.
I think that will be true for electric cars also — overall benefit clearly outweighs any incremental cost. Mr. Ghosn (and Nissan) think so too. I hope gm does too, though lately I’m not so sure, but hope springs eternal.
May 25th, 2010 (3:41 pm)I think when it is clear that EREV is the way to go it will be more likely someone other then GM will buy Fisker. Like Ford or Honda maybe? So they can catch up.
May 25th, 2010 (3:51 pm)If my memory serves me well, the Hamtramck will also be used to assemble the Cadillac DTS.
May 25th, 2010 (3:59 pm)
May 25th, 2010 (4:00 pm)Next time you’re on the freeway take a quick guess at how much electricity will be needed to move 20% of the cars you see.
For today, being green with a parking lot plug is a nice little corporate image thing. Designing a green building and a corporate operating structure is what gets my vote. Fast Company (or some other progressive publisher, I forgot who) had a nice little article on the subject when it compared Verizon to AT&T. Verizon acted first to go green, publicized it later if at all. I’m switching my service to them with my next contract.
The only way I would consider accepting peak charging is if there is a coexisting and offsetting V2G system within the same grid. I’ll have no problem recharging your car off of my battery. I might even be able to make a buck! Using the power generating station during the day just defeats the idea that the loss of energy efficiency of getting the power from the station to your car is offset by balancing the charge when you plug in at night.
May 25th, 2010 (4:11 pm)I have been cursed when it comes to tiny engines. I presently own 5, 3 of which work (well, 2 1/2; the third is a bit temperamental. What am I saying? They are all temperamental to some degree). Yes, I do own some electric yard appliances (not a lawnmower though), but they all require stringing wires, which is not always practical, and never convenient.
I do not believe that any battery powered mower I can afford will do my entire yard on a charge, and spare batteries are likely to be expensive.
Someone is missing a good bet by not coming out with a portable power supply for yard devices. It could be a battery-and-inverter gizmo on rollers which could supply 110V for conventional corded tools, it could be a Li/Ion lawn tractor with built-in inverter which you’d drive to wherever you were working and use a short wire, it could even be a small methanol-type fuel cell of some kind (don’t everybody shoot me at once, lol). Any of these would double as emergency electricity sources, displacing yet another temperamental little gas engine.
May 25th, 2010 (4:18 pm)My Ryobi trimmer isn’t too bad either. But for a kid to have some fun, a little more power is needed. A half kw battery is what, .6 hp? A 1.3kw battery just might work on the kart I made as a kid. I connected a bicycle chain to the motor to the rear axle, lifted up the rear axle to start it up, dropped it and took off! No gas pedal, just a kill switch that I’d hit with my foot. Nuts we were!
What would a kid make today to have a little fun with lithium ion? Maybe we’d seed the makings of the next EV company!
+1
May 25th, 2010 (4:23 pm)#117
I don’t like strip mining any more than I like oil spills. But it is obviously possible to mine coal a lot more responsibly than we do now. It’s largely a matter of cost. Clearly we have a lot of tough decisions to make about our sources of energy and our means of transportation. “Name your poison.” Maybe we can all walk more or ride bikes, half LOL. Or at least devise modes which are a lot more efficient per passenger or ton mile.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (4:31 pm)Consider the situation with photovoltaic cells; they make energy during the day when energy demand is highest. Some kind of incentive (beyond ‘green’ cred) for building-top solar would bolster the grid at the very time EV owners are likely to “opportunity charge” for the trip home. The solar arrays in question wouldn’t even have to be on top of the building where the car is parked.
We don’t have to worry about how to deal with daytime charging anytime soon, either. How long do you think it will take for EVs to attain 20% penetration? Even with wildly successful vehicle rollouts and sales, I can’t imagine it happening much sooner than 20 years from now.
There are all kinds of problems with V2G, not the least of which is the putting of additional stress on the most expensive part of an electric car; not to mention the fact that during evening rush hour, all the EVs would be off-grid.
I’d much rather see a system of grid-tied batteries scaled and professionally managed by the utility itself for the purpose of load-balancing, rather than some involved system to adapt mobile technology with a gazillion parties (which would have it’s own attendant expenses and risks).
May 25th, 2010 (4:37 pm)Electric cars getting better?
New distance record for Lithium Batteries….. Wired.com has reported 624 miles on one charge.
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/05/sanyo-ev-travels-624-miles-on-a-single-charge/
However a this is a Custom Application of a converted gas to electric car.
Looks like the VOLT will still be my choice. It is a lot cheaper, faster, and better looking
May 25th, 2010 (4:47 pm)Hopefully unlike BluRay players, it won’t take until 3rd GEN VOLT until it’s affordable. That’s the real problem is getting the cost down to a comparable sedan ($25K) before 300 mile range BEVs start appearing…
GO EV!!! – Range Anxiety = Oil Dependency
May 25th, 2010 (4:48 pm)I agree that there’s definitely nothing to worry about in the near future. The EV we buy today will be too simple and obsolete for what we can buy in 2020.
We’re putting together the foundation of an oil independent transportation system. Why get it off on the wrong foot?
The Voltage blog on the Columbia University conference put it out there that people are needed now to start developing the EV infrastructure. Smart grids, smart buildings, off residence charging, end of life battery usage, it’s all there.
Why put money into a wasteful system when the goal is to reduce waste?
+2
May 25th, 2010 (4:55 pm)Ummm, no. My years old EV has run, to date, about 98% wind and 2% solar, energy sources with minimal penalties relative to nonrewables, and the motor turns most of the energy into motion and wind, not heat.
@ Noel:
I recently was confronted with the reality that my electric motorcycle uses less gasoline (a bit to make, none to run) than a bicycle does in food production for the energy used to make it go. Meat eating bicyclists use much more gasoline (about 40 mpge) than veggie bicyclists. Pedestrians use even more gasoline than bicyclists, as walking is less efficient than bicycling. All use less gasoline than full gasser automobiles, of course.
The most efficient/least emmission per passenger ranking usually, from best to worst, assuming typical vehicle capacity use, is:
Train (electric drive)
Electric light rail (subway, tram or trolley)
Electric motorcycle (simplifying from all two and three wheelers)
Electric bus
Electric assist bicycle
Electric car
Bicycle (average of meat and veggie eaters)
Hybrid bus (biodiesel/compressed bio-based natural gas/electric drive)
Hybrid (biodiesel/compressed bio-based natural gas/electric drive)
Pedestrian
Herky-jerky shifting, slow off the line, noisy and polluting full gasser
It’s not my fault that reality is sometimes counterintuitive.
On emmissions (using renewables), efficiency, practicality, affordability, individual convenience and autonomy, up front cost, maintenance, operating and lifetime cost, fun, performance and luxury, electric motorcycles win hands down.
I’m still interested in buying a Volt.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (4:56 pm)Me also. I just can’t seem to get mixtures correct for the very small ones. Although, I am a fair engine mechanic and was a model airplane hobbyist for a time.
I have had way better luck with my battery-operated tools. The iRobot Roombas are kind of a disappointment though. They seem to eat batteries.
My next mower will be battery-electric. There are a couple good ones out there now. I got one for my daughter (Homelite) and it’s been great so far.
What I really want is a robotic lawn mower, but, they are way too expensive (same price as a good-sized riding mower!). Besides, I need the exercise.
May 25th, 2010 (5:00 pm)Nope. Right now you couldn’t give me a Leaf. Tomorrow, I have do pick ups and deliveries at four of my customers. If it was the most frequently visited 3, I’d probably make it with the electric range of the Volt or the Leaf. If I go to the fourth one, The Volt would make the round trip and the Leaf would leave me sweating the trip home, begging a plug to top off the charge, or not finishing the trip under it’s own power.
So now I need to use the other car instead of the Leaf. Two cars is more registration cost, more insurance, maybe more property tax, and more space for parking. I’m not going to early adopt something I don’t think will do the job instead waiting for something I KNOW will.
Neither company is going to tell you their entire game plan any more than a football coach is going to hand out his play books to the opposing team.
Best we can do is SWAG whether or not they’re adequately prepared for what happen in the market once the product is available.
May 25th, 2010 (5:02 pm)
May 25th, 2010 (5:05 pm)We didn’t get any of the automation at the Volt plant, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the tooling was set up to work with multiple styles of cars and/or quick change tooling. They are also probably using a catridge system where any cartridge of parts can be brought to a robot feed-up line. Regarding the parts shortage, that’s a whole differen’t issue.
May 25th, 2010 (5:10 pm)Forecast 1998: “While the vehicles in 1998 satisfied the driving requirements of many fleet operators and two car families, the cost of $30,000 to $40,000 (1998) made them expensive. However, this cost was considerably lower when tax credits and incentives were included. Large-volume production and improvements in the production process are expected to reduce prices to the range of current gasoline-powered vehicles.”
Forecast 2020: Delloitte–2%. Nissan–10%
Fact is, forecasting transition ICE to EV is more crystal-ball kind of guessing than standard market research procedures. Case in point. VOLT 2010-2012–8000. Nissan LEAF–???
The wild card is: will a game changing technology make it to market… The iPhone was a game changer. In EV, that could be EEStor, Li-O resolution (or some other electrode chemistry improvement), a methanol or similar HC fuel cell. The point being none of these three wild cards were functional (you could make an argument about the fuel cell) in 1998.
My take is that only a direct EV competitor to ICE is the lowest risk path. That being the VOLT. Which is what this site has been debating for the last week or so. LEAF is NOT a direct ICE competitor.
Recall the consensus being that LEAF buyers are ‘early adopters’ whereas VOLT buyers take zero risks.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (5:23 pm)Here you go…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f48x9baSuF0
757 more videos to view…
GO EV!!! – Range Anxiety = Oil Dependency, plus more oil spills
May 25th, 2010 (5:44 pm)You are certainly much more serious about the discussion than I am. I don’t tend to praise or bash companies (or their CEOs) like many others that come here, and I guess that was my point. Sorry if I hit an unknown nerve. Consider it “let gone.”
May 25th, 2010 (6:05 pm)Why?
An EREV Vette would be awesome. Instant torque. Faster off the line.
For example, let’s say you use a 400 hp AC induction electric motor. That would give you way more usable torque than the current Vette. Faster 0-60. Faster in the 1/4 mile.
But for an EREV Vette, you would probably only need a 180 hp gas engine. That’s all you really need to cruise at 150 miles per hour.
In other words, that huge gas engine in the current Vette is only used for acceleration. If the electric motor handles the acceleration, you would end up with a faster car using a much smaller gas engine.
May 25th, 2010 (6:29 pm)Build it, call it the Chevy Lightning, and then call it “done.” Everybody happy?
May 25th, 2010 (6:37 pm)Getting better, Anon; getting better …
May 25th, 2010 (7:16 pm)As long as the EREV version still looks like a Corvette, I don’t care what they call it.
May 25th, 2010 (7:27 pm)#131
It’s not counterintuitive at all when you stop to think of it. +1
May 25th, 2010 (7:29 pm)Yes, I agree.
GM marketing seems to think the Volt is mostly for tree-huggers and geeks. They’re in for a big surprise.
Of course, if they price it too high, it could be a self-fulfilling prophesy.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (7:38 pm)Think about what you’re saying. Of course here are other battery suppliers. But the batteries from those suppliers use different chemistries. It’s taken GM several years to become comfortable with the LG Chem batteries. Do you really think they’d just substitute batteries from different companies which use different chemistries? Would those batteries even work with the technology as currently deployed in the Volt?
You seem to think that because GM has considerable experience, to say the least, at procurement, that it will be on top of the problem. One there is no evidence of this. Two procurement for new technologies is a completely different ballgame than procurement for existing technologies. Most internal procurement groups at large corporations do an exceptionally poor job at the former. The auto industry and GM may be an exception to this general rule, but it would be an exception. (I don’t know enough about GM to have a real opinion on this question and my guess is that you don’t either, but perhaps you do).
May 25th, 2010 (7:40 pm)You probably know more about supply than anyone else on this board, so what’s your take on that?
May 25th, 2010 (8:04 pm)#119 RB
I guess I have just heard my share of moaning and groaning when things change. It seems we are too reactive. There are time to be reactive and times to be proactive. Who knows how high gasoline will have to go up in price and for how long before the general population accepts EV. I would bet, if the price of a gallon of gas went down to $1.50, hybrids and EVs would fall off the radar and the general public would want their big gas guzzlers back.
I really hope GM and LEAF succeed at this thing. I have always had a thing for electric motors and I have wanted an electric car since I was a kid.
May 25th, 2010 (8:14 pm)If you remind me how I can upload pictures from my computer somewhere, I’ll post pictures for you. I don’t have an account for picture posting anywhere.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (9:20 pm)If we followed Carter’s lead and slowly reduced our petroleum addiction by using alternative transportation systems (including EVs), we wouldn’t be all upset about the gulf oil spill. Why? We wouldn’t need that oil so much and be in such a rush to get it.
Thus, now that we will soon have the option to buy a real EV this Fall (Volt, Leaf, etc.) how about we just close our mouths and speak with our wallets?
It will drive the fear of God into the oil companies and oil countries and a sea of change in the world. Won’t that feel better than the ego boost you get from driving in that fancy luxury car?
If I see a CEO driving a tiny plug-in next year that is laughing out loud behind the glass, I’m going to laugh right along with him / her because they finally understand.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (9:34 pm)GM Marketing is wasting a golden opportunity to run a tv ad for VOLT during the evening news when they are giving the latest updates on the gulf oil spill.
I’m just sayin’……..
May 25th, 2010 (9:36 pm)I doubt that I know more than some people here, but I’d agree that they won’t be able to build more cars than they have parts for. However GM has a way of getting more parts out of it’s suppliers when needed, flexing the GM muscles. Double? Probably not, but maybe 25% more. The question is, will they do it. I think they are doing the baby steps approach as far as the 2010/2011 release goes, but if push comes to shove in the sales battle, they may be able to do more than what people expect. Just my opinion. Lyle would really have to do some investigative reporting to see if GM does have a card up its sleeve or not.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (10:01 pm)The last 4 cars I bought I purchased them for the engine they had in them, not for the car wrapped around it. 3 of them were diesels (Chev Tahoe 6.5L Diesel, Mercedes Diesel, Volkswagen Diesel, and Ford Ranger EV.) The looks of a car is so far down on the list for me. I have my reservation in for my Leaf, I don’t think it is a bad looking car, however, electric drivetrain is #1, I could care less what is wrapped around it.
+1
May 25th, 2010 (10:04 pm)Um. The gulf oil spill is an ecological and economic disaster whether or not we need the oil involved. 11 people died in the initial explosion. Whole communities are devastated. The seafood and fishing industry probably won’t survive. The tourism industry will be hurt. A lot. Countless wild animals are going to die. Miles of seashore and national parks are unsafe to be in.
I could go on…
May 25th, 2010 (10:23 pm)I’m certain V2Grid would be 100% voluntary. Might seem acceptable for people that only do a lot of short range driving. Batteries have life expectancies based on shelf life not just cycles. For millions that use their cars for very short trips each day it may be a great way to get a little more out of the battery before it’s chronological lifetime is up.
May work for people who work at home or a block or two away, retired people or people that have more than one car where one is parked nearly all the time. Time will tell.
The grid will become more involved as the cost of technology decreases and energy saving methods become more granular. At some point enough technology will exist in both cars and transmission circuits that V2Grid will be as simple as sending out a flyer with a signature card, and initializing a software subroutine. I agree that the highest level of electrics will be on the road at commute hours, but all won’t road-borne be at the exact same time.
I would like to be retired at a point in the not too distant future and an EV owner. At ome time in the life span of the battery, using it for an occasional assist to the grid may actually be no more expensive than subsidizing a grid tied battery system with my electric bills. Although whoever inherits that car, or buys it out of probate, may be disappointed. Though they may have enjoyed lower electric rates because of it and it’s hard working kin.
May 25th, 2010 (10:31 pm)A card up their sleeve, in this case, is related to their vision of the future. We have thanked the Volt team many times for that vision. In six months will we thank GM marketing for expanding that vision and involving more and more legions of customers and admirers in it? Time will tell.
May 25th, 2010 (10:35 pm)My apologies. I seem to be humor challenged on this. Can I plead the “fighting off a sinus infection defense”? I’ll turn off the sarcasm generator for a few moments too
May 25th, 2010 (10:49 pm)Sure. Good night. Get some rest for that infection.
May 26th, 2010 (12:03 am)Have patience, flyingfish! Both vehicles will be hitting the market about the same time, which is when knowing the price, and test driving the vehicle will determine the consumers decision to buy and which vehicle. The Volt will have a huge appeal because as Lutz said, it is sexy looking and it will be packed full of goodies that will appeal to the younger crowd. You may be one of them for all I know. As for me, I am hopeful that at my age I will get to own and drive the Volt and see the day when we can begin the road to freedom from foreign oil and a cleaner and quieter environment. To me, the quietness of the electric propulsion system has great appeal!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+2
May 26th, 2010 (1:09 am)I happen to work in the materials management (including procurement) arm of a major aerospace company. Before that, I was in the engineering section of a wireless telecommunications company dealing with suppliers like Motorola, NEC and Panasonic. Before that, I was in the auto parts distribution business for a couple decades. So, yeah, I have a good feel for logistics and planning.
No, you can’t just substitute a different specification cell (chemistry) in the process. But, you can deal with multiple suppliers that use the exact same specifications.
You might be right about the ‘new technology’ concern, but, it’s not so new after 4 years of doing it. Is a 168 panel bulb different for a Ford or a Chevy or even a Cessna? Does it matter if GE or Sylvania or LG makes it? This will become the case for prismatic battery cells very soon if it hasn’t happened already. Other lithium cells, like those used by Tesla, are already commodity items.
As far as suppliers… All that is needed is to supply the specifications (including chemistry) to any qualified supplier and go from there. If they can’t have prototypes in a few months and be in production in less than a year, they aren’t a player.
GM has more than enough time to setup alternate suppliers for battery cells if they haven’t already. This is not a bottleneck in the build process imho.
May 26th, 2010 (3:46 am)I think I’m hearing the rumble of an incipient uprising. Let’s have a poll, Lyle. How many are willing to make a nonrefundable deposit to guarantee a place in line? I’m in with or without DaveK’s suggestion so long as the ante isn’t too high, but I’ll bid higher with it.
+1
May 26th, 2010 (3:47 am)Off Yahoo home page…..
Tue May 25, 4:57 PM
DETROIT, Michigan (AFP) – The first year of production of Nissan’s new electric car Leaf has been sold out, the head of the Japanese automaker, Carlos Ghosn, said Tuesday.
“We have 13,000 orders in the US and 6,000 orders in Japan,” Ghosn said at a news conference in Detroit, the US auto industry capital.
Hopefully those who wanted one, paid their $99 deposit. Now it’s GM’s turn to start taking depsoits!!
GO EV!!! – Range Anxiety = Oil Dependency
May 26th, 2010 (4:08 am)Wow! It boggles the mind to think how fast that car must be going by now if you have been adding kinetic energy to it for years!
(Sorry for the dig. Your post is an excellent one, but Roger is right. All that “motion energy” has long since been converted into heat. The wind, too.)
May 26th, 2010 (4:42 am)Not to mention, when one is driving they are generally not drawing electricity from the grid. I don’t see a V2G issue with fewer grid connected vehicles during rush hour. The bigger issue to me would seem to be daytime connectivity.
Battery wear is a red herring. It issimply not a practical issue for some V2G applications and the higher energy transfer applications needn’t be part of a V2G implentation or could be optional. Jeffhre’s point about calendar battery loss is increasingly relevant as the battery size is increased. So, while most Volt owners might not want their battery used for significant V2G energy transfer, more BEV owners may be interested. The larger issue for me would not be battery life, but rather charge availability. High energy V2G apps could not cycle too much, especially if it were with a BEV.
+1
May 26th, 2010 (5:44 am)The new EV-1 is coming to a street near you. Good thing Nissan has plans on making a lot of these. Owner feedback will be pouring in shortly. Followed by upgrades and more dependable systems. Good going Nissan.
=D-Volt
May 26th, 2010 (7:31 am)In the past GM, has stated there will be no single-source suppliers. Meaning they will always have backups. I don’t know if they still follow this approach. This was about 5 years ago.
May 26th, 2010 (8:15 am)#101
I knew it!
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! LMAO!!!!!
SHE’S MINE I TELL YOU, SHE’S MINE!!!!!!
RECHARGE! James
May 26th, 2010 (9:45 am)Touche. Darn that entropy!
I was just trying to make the point that electric drive is way more efficient than an ICE (or human power (bicycle, walking)) at turning energy into work at the vehicle level, which is not debatable.
Even though it’s not perpetual motion, electric drive still carries the day.
May 26th, 2010 (11:05 am)You don’t need an account to post the picture yourself. There are free hosting services such as tinypic.com (which I use), photobucket and others.
Have a browser open to the Leave a Reply screen on this blog.
Go to http://www.tinypic.com in a separate browser session or tab. Next to “file” use the browse button to select the picture from your hard drive (don’t worry about “tags,” I never use them and the service works fine).
Click “Upload Now.” (You will now be prompted to do the thing where you look at some barely-readable text and type it into a box. This is new. Click “Upload Now” again, on the dialogue box).
Within moments, you will see several strings of text in different fields. You want the one labeled “IMG Code for Forums & Message Boards.” It will look something like this:
[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/2u7y6g6.jpg[/IMG]
Click in the field (so that the string highlights). Click CTRL + C (“C” and “Ctrl” keys at the same time). Switch to your tab or browser session containing the “Leave a Reply” box here. Put the cursor into the comment box and click CTRL + V (“V” and “Ctrl” keys at the same time).
You will note that when I pasted the link at the top that it didn’t turn into a picture! This is because this site will only accept an IMG tag if it is expressed in lower case. Change IMG to img (at the beginning and the end), and you get:
If you will be using the picture in more than one thread, keep a wordpad document where you insert (CTRL +V) the string, along with the filename you uploaded. Then, whenever you want to use the pic again, you can just open the Wordpad doc to copy (CTRL +C) from.
Sorry to be late. I’ll re-post this in the next thread.
May 26th, 2010 (12:29 pm)Great argument. I’m not disagreeing with that. Just retire the Vette and call it something else. The Vette is NOT about just speed and acceleration. Those requirements are easy to solve. Everyone can do it. Just look around. Its about the heritage and culture that has been engineered and grown over the FIFTY EIGHT years Vettes have been built.
I know I won’t win many friends here with this, and truthfully I don’t care. These are discussions about the Volt, which I fully support and will have in the future. It is the direction we need to go. But the tradition of some cars MATTER MORE than others. Period. The Vette is one of the few that this applies to. I would never own or drive an electric Vette. Almost NOONE I know with Vettes would either. Those who entertain the idea are new owners who don’t appreciate the heritage yet. You would expect this from rookies. You certainly expect this from those who haven’t played the game.
It would be like going to aluminun bats in MLB. The new kids would love it. The fans likely wouldn’t care, particularly if the show got better. The older players and old timers would be devastated. Not that it is a bad idea. Just don’t call it major league baseball.
Sorry about the rant. I support the idea of an EREV Chevy sports car. NOT an EREV Corvette. As the parent and protector of the Vette heritage, I would bet GM agrees too.
Back to the Volt….
May 27th, 2010 (4:03 am)No manufacturer makes an identical cell, they all change something.. but as long as the size of the cells and electrical characteristics are met it should be possible for GM to change cell suppliers.. as long as other characteristics such as life and temperature meet the spec. Unfortunately automotive grade lithium cells have not become commodities.. everyone is making cells that are physically different.. a disaster for a company like GM.
There are many battery makers that will make a cell to your spec and design… at least there were when every phone used a different sized cell.
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