Job one is the term used in the automotive industry referring to the first vehicle off an assembly line that is intended for retail sale.
That Job one Volt is the one we have been patiently waiting for for over three years.
Ward’s Auto interviewed Volt vehicle line director Tony Posawatz, and found out things are on track, as well as some other interesting details.
“The hardware is pretty tight,” Posawatz told Ward’s. “All our testing shows we’re ready to launch at the end of the year.”
He also claimed GM is still planning for a November launch even though GM CEO Ed Whitacre recently said the car would launch in October, corroborating what he had told me in a personal communication earlier this year.
We know from former vice-chairman Bob Lutz that GM will specifically be building four thousand 2011 model year Volts from 4th quarter 2010 through 2nd quarter 2011. An additional four thousand 2012 model year Volts will be produced in the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2011.
Posawatz still would not confirm pricing but said it would be “in the 30,000 range” after the $7500 tax credit.
He also disclosed two interesting comments.
First he said the Volt would be the first GM vehicle to deploy the latest 9th generation OnStar system. Included will be the capability of turning off charging upon request of the local utility company if it finds the grid to be overburdened.
Second he stated that he was confident the Volt’s battery back would last twenty years. He expects the pack to live its first ten years in the vehicle but in some cases to spend its second ten years in post vehicle use. This would include home energy storage, back-up grid storage, and in other transportation applications such as electric scooters.
Source (Ward’s Auto, subscription required)
+12
May 4th, 2010 (6:24 am)From the article:
First he said the Volt would be the first GM vehicle to deploy the latest 9th generation OnStar system. Included will be the capability of turning off charging upon request of the local utility company if it finds the grid to be overburdened.
This is interesting. Let’s say I have the car plugged into something off the grid. Will OnStar tell the car to stop charging? Will the Volt know it is not plugged into the grid, but plugged into another power source?
+3
May 4th, 2010 (6:28 am)Lyle,
When will you be able to take one on the open road for an extended run?–Lee
+2
May 4th, 2010 (6:32 am)37,499 dollars. I got this from a source.
+3
May 4th, 2010 (6:39 am)The twenty year life, either means there will be a significant trade-in value 8-), or GM is planning on leasing the battery, and maintaining ownership 8-(.
+3
May 4th, 2010 (6:40 am)“We know from former vice-chairman Bob Lutz that GM will specifically be building four thousand 2011 model year Volts from 4th quarter 2010 through 2nd quarter 2011. An additional four thousand 2012 model year Volts will be produced in the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2011.”
Wow that stinks…I guess I won’t be getting my Volt for at least a few more years. Especially here in Maine we are not even on the radar rollout I am sure.
+2
May 4th, 2010 (6:44 am)Lyle, you’re getting better than the pure auto magazine guys! Scoop ‘em!
“Second he stated that he was confident the Volt’s battery back would last twenty years.”
It will be interesting to see what happens to these packs in the secondary market. I would not mind having a full-house UPS to not only keep my power “cleaner” (smooth out spikes and surges) but to buy power off-peak for use on-peak.
So again we are getting different messages from different people within GM.
1. What is the real launch date?
2. What is the real MSRP?
I was starting to get a little burned out (especially after learning E85 is not in Gen I) but, we have been getting a bunch of good information and news lately.
It looks like Gen I will be rare and probably collector’s items. The smart move for more ‘normal’ folks would be to wait for Gen II.
Keep up the good work Lyle!
+1
May 4th, 2010 (6:45 am)I hope the first lucky owner gets in the Volt and drives it from Detroit, to Florida, tweeting the whole way. Cornelius is on the way to Florida
+8
May 4th, 2010 (6:48 am)He’ll have to make a lot of stops with only a 250 mile range on a tank of gas.
I know. I know. -1 for me. I will do it myself.
+2
May 4th, 2010 (6:50 am)Well, these things are pretty much what we already knew, but Lyle has a way of making it fresh and exciting. And yes, it is very interesting to imagine where GM is going with the 20 year lifetime. I can imagine that it might significantly reduce the cost (and help with profitability), but I just cannot picture myself going with a lease. I wonder if there will be a buyback agreement or battery trade-in program?
Very stimulating as usual, Lyle.
+3
May 4th, 2010 (6:55 am)Discussed before many times. If GM leases the battery, it’ll kill sales. People don’t want the possibility for the lease to expire and not be renewed (ie. crushed, like EV1.).
+1
May 4th, 2010 (6:57 am)It would not take much coaxing to get me to do that (seriously).
I could even be convinced to deliver a Volt to someone down there if they made the arrangements with a Michigan dealer. But what am I thinking? Anybody doing that would definitely want to drive it themselves.
+25
May 4th, 2010 (6:58 am)Lyle: Second he stated that he was confident the Volt’s battery back would last twenty years. He expects the pack to live its first ten years in the vehicle but in some cases to spend its second ten years in post vehicle use. This would include home energy storage, back-up grid storage, and in other transportation applications such as electric scooters.
Fantastic! Having been responsibile for numerous spacecraft with 15-20 yr batteries operating in the harsh thermal environment of space, I’ve dared to hope GM engineers would apply thermal control techniques and cell reconditioning/balancing methodologies similar to those we’ve used both in deep-space & near-earth missions to achieve very long battery lifetimes.
The GREAT thing about Volt batteries lasting 20 years (even with greatly diminished capacity) is that the Volt itself should be able to remain fully functional for that long —something I’ve hoped for from the very beginning of the design effort because it shows the design is truly robust!
/Every other Volt subsystem/component should easily last 20 yrs —now we can expect that the entire car will still be driveable for at least as long as conventional cars are today, if not longer!
+6
May 4th, 2010 (7:05 am)” in other transportation applications such as electric scooters.”
I want to get one of those scooters that uses the Volts battery pack for power.
Lets just slap electric motor wheels and a set right onto the T-Pack and drive that around. Now that would be quick….
+3
May 4th, 2010 (7:07 am)Interesting about the power company controlling the charger.. you are clueless, get home at 5pm, right at peak power demand time, you plug the Volt in without setting the timer and the power company promptly turns it off.. eventually it starts charging around 7PM and everything ends up well.
+13
May 4th, 2010 (7:07 am)First he said the Volt would be the first GM vehicle to deploy the latest 9th generation OnStar system. Included will be the capability of turning off charging upon request of the local utility company if it finds the grid to be overburdened.
I find this scary. It seems to introduce a whole new kind of unreliability. I can imagine turned off if the grid is overburdened, turned off by mistake, turned off by a software problem, turned off because of a thunderstorm…and with my utility there is not going to anyone who answers the phone who can explain why it has been turned off, or for how long. (Generally we only get automated recorded messages if you call their number.)
While I may be the person who pays for the Volt, it seems more and more like it really belongs to other people, looking out for their own interests. I am hoping this news is just a passing nightmare, and soon I’ll wake up to a sunny day, just a little shaky.
+5
May 4th, 2010 (7:10 am)I just have to believe that GM is going to have a pleasant surprise for us as long as things keep going well. Even Lyle (cagey guy) seems to have accidentally on purpose left out the fact that Volts are now coming off the assembly line. Yes, they are “going slow” with that. But once they have about 200 for testing, they still have about 4 months to produce Volts able to be sold, all before the end of November. That could easily be another 4,000 even at a “go slow” pace. I suspect that they could send some of those out to the three test markets a couple of months early and then at full product launch go nationwide. Maybe even have enough for one car in each show room.
+7
May 4th, 2010 (7:16 am)+1 I know you are not a troll and I got a good laugh
+5
May 4th, 2010 (7:16 am)It’s a cross that I would be willing to bear.
+3
May 4th, 2010 (7:18 am)When GM sells no other car but the Volt in 2011 they will change their minds about how many Volts to make. Or they can be foolish and stop making the Volt altogether and go bankrupt.
NPNS!
+2
May 4th, 2010 (7:19 am)So I’m thinking premium On-Star is going to be a mandatory subscription for the Volt — or essentially mandatory if you want the features of your latest tech plaything to work.
On-Star “Direction & Connections” = $28.90/mo.
http://www.onstar.com/us_english/jsp/plans/index.jsp
+2
May 4th, 2010 (7:24 am)“Posawatz still would not confirm pricing but said it would be “in the 30,000 range” after the $7500 tax credit.”
As they ‘ramp up’ to 4,000 model year 2012 in the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2011, which is a whopping 225 cars per day, it really doesn’t matter what the price is as they will sell them all anyways.
Maybe in calendar 2012 they will have some meaningful production numbers and the price will come down to around 25,000 after rebate. Hopefully I can wait that long and resist leasing a leaf.
May 4th, 2010 (7:25 am)It will know.. if it didn’t it wouldn’t be very smart now would it. But seriously.. It’ll know.
+1
May 4th, 2010 (7:32 am)250 Miles is 3 and a half hours of nonstop driving – 4 hours if you go the speed limit.
+1
May 4th, 2010 (7:32 am)This news makes the Gen I Volt seem like the one to buy. I would really like it to be the last car I buy and if the battery could last 20 years and still have a decent EV range then that would be a real possibility. The problem is going to be getting your hands on one!
+7
May 4th, 2010 (7:38 am)“First he said the Volt would be the first GM vehicle to deploy the latest 9th generation OnStar system. Included will be the capability of turning off charging upon request of the local utility company if it finds the grid to be overburdened.”
_________________________
Wow, good thinking GM! Perhaps an On-Star subscription should be required for other things too:
air conditioners, clothes dryers, jacuzzi tubs, hot tubs, pool pumps, hair dryers . . . . . just think of the possibilities!
/nice to know GM’s on the leading edge of technology: a $30/mo subscription to help you NOT charge your electric car … cool!
May 4th, 2010 (7:41 am)I would be curious to know how.
Is the grid going to send a signal to the plug?
+8
May 4th, 2010 (7:46 am)At this point i’d rather GM just stop talking about the price all together and just tell us an exact day when they will release that information.
I mean maybe i’m crazy but were 6 months away from it being available and we don’t know the price…….
May 4th, 2010 (7:47 am)Nick D said:
250 Miles is 3 and a half hours of nonstop driving – 4 hours if you go the speed limit.
I like your thinking, I wonder what it would be flooring it between groups of cars blocking all lanes?
May 4th, 2010 (7:49 am)If you keep the car more than 10 years, or even buy one second hand, a newer and likely cheaper energy system may be available (EESTOR, hydrogen cell, warp drive
) that will replace the current battery pack. It will be very interesting to see where this all goes. If GM makes this car the very highest quality (as they stated), then it may be worth installing a more efficient replacement to keep it all going. The coverage of this has been a fun ride all by itself.
+2
May 4th, 2010 (7:49 am)“First he said the Volt would be the first GM vehicle to deploy the latest 9th generation OnStar system. Included will be the capability of turning off charging upon request of the local utility company if it finds the grid to be overburdened.”
This seems to be an optional feature that goes along with the SmartGrid technology that is being developed across the nation. In the future, we will pay for electricity according to demand, and will pay more during peak periods than off-peak periods.
Some smart applicances, like water heaters or refrigerators, will reduce or eliminate power draw during these hours based upon the signal it receives from the Utility. As a consumer, you will have the ability to know what the rates are, and adjust you power consumption accordingly (shut off TV, lower heat/AC load, etc.).
In a similar scenario, you could program the Volt to delay charging when the grid is heavily taxed and power prices are high. If you absolutely need the power, you could likely override the program and buy power at the high rates. Again, this is another beauty of E-REV, you can always fall back on liquid fuel during these days when it is grid power is at a premium.
+3
May 4th, 2010 (7:53 am)This is exactly why the car should have flying capabilities.
May 4th, 2010 (8:16 am)A lot of stops, but no hotel room required
May 4th, 2010 (8:17 am)Thanks Nasaman for all those precisions, the debate is then how long shall us keep our Volt/Ampera vs the technological evolutions of the Volt itself and/or the competition.
I have a Canon camera which is still working perfectly after 25 years … but completely useless in our current environment.
BR
JC NPNS
+1
May 4th, 2010 (8:22 am)Don’t you worry,
The after market hackers and geeks will have all sorts of goodies for us
once this has been on the streets for a year or so..
THEN the real fun begins.
Welcome to Car 2.0 !!
+1
May 4th, 2010 (8:24 am)Will be interesting to see what comes standard. And what options are available at what price. I have heard “optional” associated with the back looking camera. Most GM vehicles include OnStar for 12 months. The battery hump between the two front seats could house an optional personal entertainment screen for the rear seats. 8 speaker high amp sound system, optional? Scratch resistant coating on the exterior?
=D-Volt
+17
May 4th, 2010 (8:27 am)Boy oh boy, I hope that GM is pulling a “let’s low-ball the production numbers and then actually produce significantly more vehicles – at least in the second model year”.
I know it’s been a fantastic journey following this vehicle for the last ~3 years, but the thought of waiting *another* 3 or 4 years to actually GET one is just flat depressing.
Looks like I’ll need to adjust that bucket list item from “Buy a new car (Volt)” to “DRIVE the new Volt”. Even the latter is a tad off because we drove pre-production model Volts, but that’s splitting hairs. I can’t believe that I’d now consider a different vehicle with a plug (but not a BEV). Ford? – Did I say that out loud?
Maybe GM will pull off an actual nationwide release in 2011, but even I, the humble site Optimist, is getting more than a little disheartened by these production announcements.
Still praying for an “Under-promise, Over-deliver” move by GM.
I need some coffee.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
+1
May 4th, 2010 (8:28 am)Lets think about this, suppose you have a 10 year old Volt battery and try to sell it.. how much do you think you can get for it?.. probably not much since by that time batteries will be dirt cheap. What I can see happening is 15-20 year old Volts still driving around with the original battery.. AER will have diminished close to 0 so the genset will have to run from the moment you get in the car, but still very usable. Many owners will opt for a rebuild job, and probably end up with a 200 mile AER range that the original Volt never had.
+1
May 4th, 2010 (8:40 am)Having two separate propulsion systems means not being able to charge may be annoying but not a real inconvenience. My guess this is also quite a way down the road. Before a utility would be able to use this feature it would need a smart grid, and AFAIK no utility actually has one. When they do, you’ll probably have all sorts of issues like this to deal with. Where I am now, the utility will give you $100 or something if you allow them to turn off your air conditioning for a few hours during the summer. But in order to do that they have to install a separate wireless receiver at your home.
Anyway, as time goes on and utilities develop more interactive technologies and pricing plans which tie rates to demand, we’ll all have to deal with the resulting complexity. This won’t be anything special.
+4
May 4th, 2010 (8:46 am)With such low production numbers, a few things are certain:
> The first couple hundred will be dished out to friends and supporters of Obama and Schwarzenegger. > Nissan, Toyota, Tesla, Fisker, Fiat, BMW and maybe even Aptera and Phoenix will outpace GM in sales of All-Electrics and Hybrids. GM will play ‘catch-up’ (as they have always done) in 2013. > In spring of next year, instead of a VOLT my family will probably lease a Subaru for 36 months to get us by until GM gets it together on this. > And finally, If Lyle does not get one of the first 10 cars off the line I may not even bother with a VOLT. GM supposidly shook up its management to do things better. That may be true on the manufacturing side, but on marketing…? Not so much.
+1
May 4th, 2010 (8:50 am)Yes these numbers stink up the place, but statik had a great insight when we pointed out that the battery plant wouldn’t be operational until January of 2012. Until then it may be too much to expect more than 8k Volts. FWIW Nissan’s plans are about the same. My guess is that while Nissan is taking reservations it won’t be able to deliver more than 5k cars in the first 2 Qs of 2011.
But my question is whether GM is looking backwards too much. It’s a difficult task. On the one hand dealers need to make payroll and their payments on their mansions so they only care about selling Malibus today. At the same time GM is sitting on a game changer but the “New GM” seems even less likely to look to the future than the “Old GM”.
+1
May 4th, 2010 (8:58 am)From an article in telegraph.co.uk:
Nice eye candy + mention of range anxiety. No mention of Volt as cure for range anxiety.
+2
May 4th, 2010 (9:02 am)Two words: “Faraday Cage.”
+1
May 4th, 2010 (9:06 am)Grid power would have to be about 6x (or 60 cents) to break even with generating electricity from gasoline.
At 60-cents-per-Kwh a bunch of alternatives (Solar, NG generator, etc.) become viable vs buying power from the grid. Also, Armageddon would ensue. It wouldn’t be pretty.
+9
May 4th, 2010 (9:09 am)I’m certainly not a Li-Ion battery expert. However, of the several high-reliability battery chemistries I am familiar with, I can’t think of any that typically exhibit the more-or-less linear decrease in capacity over long time periods —not even in 20 years— that you’re implying by suggesting the AER could drop to close to ZERO.
The Volt’s battery of 288 cells would likely suffer the loss of perhaps 5% or about 15 cells as outright shorts (or as by-passed open cells); and I’d guess the remaining cells might loose as much as 15% of their capacity in 20 years. This could still leave a battery providing a useful AER of about 32 miles, which I think most drivers would be quite satisfied with after 20 yrs of use.
+2
May 4th, 2010 (9:10 am)THe ability for the power company to turn off the Volt when electric demand is high is nothing new. I allowed our local power company to install a programmable thermostat in our house that gives them the ability to turn off our A/C when demand is high. A little green light comes on when the power company has controll. Over the past several years, it has never been a problem or caused discomfort. Basically, they do it on a rolling basis and the A/C stays off for a short period of time. I imagine the Volt scenario to be similiar.
The thermostat that the power company installed has a small antenna wire out the back side and stuffed into the wall cavity. So, I guess the stat is controlled via radio…no reason the Volt would not work the same way…simple technology and would not really require an up to date subscription to OnStar.
Bottom line is that if the radio signal is lost, Volt just resumes charging. Basically a fail safe system.
+1
May 4th, 2010 (9:12 am)I think it would be cheaper to install a switch to disconnect the antennae.
+2
May 4th, 2010 (9:24 am)20 years is a very long time for technology. 20 years is also a very long time for something mechanical to survive.
I am thinking it will become commonplace to purchase a Sears Die-Hard Volt battery replacement at a reasonable cost in 20 years. The replacement will weigh 100 lbs, be 1/20th the size, produce a range of 300 miles and can be recharged in 10 minutes.
Of course, in 20 years, I probably won’t care anymore.
May 4th, 2010 (9:31 am)Loboc said:
Of course, in 20 years, I probably won’t care anymore.
Me neither, I’ll be retired off the residual income from my volt battery. Assuming I can buy one.
May 4th, 2010 (9:34 am)Frequency jammer would work as well
+2
May 4th, 2010 (9:36 am)It’s 1384 miles from Detroit to Miami. Stopping every 250 miles means 5 stops for fuel en route (plus an initial fill before starting). That for a 20+ hour drive.
Compared to my BMW 330 which goes about 400 miles per tank on the highway, you’re only adding 2 more fuel stops. 10-20 minutes extra for the trip at worst? And maybe no difference because filling up the Volt’s 6 gal tank will be faster then the time it takes to wait for 12-14 gal to go into my BMW.
Even a car that can go 500-600 miles on a tank will still need two fuel stops.
I just don’t see how those 2-3 extra fuel stops are even worth discussing.
The Volt will be able to go anywhere in the US there are paved roads and lots of places there aren’t. If you want to go to Deadhorse, AK it will probably be able to make the trip as well as any other sedan (which isn’t saying much, it’s a difficult 500 miles north from Fairbanks) provided you carry a 5-gal can of gas or two — something most vehicles making that trip will have anyway.
+4
May 4th, 2010 (9:39 am)Cheer up, Tag —you still have the honor of being our perennial optimist. But you’re not alone.
It just dawned on me that we’ve got THREE cockeyed optimists here —one is a Shrink (you); another is a Neurologist (Lyle); and the 3rd is a “Space Cadet” (me).
Rub-a-dub-dub, 3 men in a tub!!! If the tub goes down at least we won’t be alone.
PS: All 3 of us have one thing in common —we’ve all test driven a pre-production Volt!
+1
May 4th, 2010 (9:44 am)And what makes you think that HAL will allow that?!? Off to the lithium mines with you, young man! I, for one, wlecome our new automotive overlords…
May 4th, 2010 (9:47 am)So Job One is here. Did I miss about the gas tank size or GM still withhold that info as well with the MSRP?
May 4th, 2010 (9:54 am)Maybe used Volt batteries are the answer for companies like Vectrix, who had a great platform in their maxi-scooter but failed in that their NIMH batteries were too heavy, expensive and inefficient.
I think this would be a good fit. GM? Interested in getting into the two-wheeled business?
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME
+1
May 4th, 2010 (9:55 am)But we’ll all be just as wet.
It does sound a little like one of those jokes that start: a Shrink, a Dr, and a rocket scientist go into a bar…
I know that the Volt *will* be successful, so that provides comfort. God willing, things will play out so that they will eventually be seen on local Dealers’ lots. I just need a little settling time to get things back into their normal level of positive distortion.
Thanks.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
May 4th, 2010 (9:57 am)What other power source? The reality is that 99% of home solar systems are grid-tied. Peak demand is when the sun is shining. That’s why utility companies give rebates for solar. They assume your solar system will provide power to the grid during peak hours.
A non-grid-tied solar system would be much more expensive since you would need a lot of batteries and you may not get rebates from the power company. These are used almost exclusively in remote locations where power lines are not available.
It may not be that far in the future. I believe OnStar uses cellular technology, like text messaging. You can send a text message with a simple email address. I’m imagining this feature would be used on very hot sunny days, in order to prevent rolling blackouts. So you wouldn’t need a precise location for each Volt.
Since most charging will be at night, shutting down the Volt’s charging system remotely only on extremely hot days from perhaps 2-5pm shouldn’t cause a lot more miles on the range extender. By the time EREVs ramp up in numbers, the ability of the power company to throttle the charging probably won’t be far behind.
Bottom line: I think this feature makes a lot of sense. I’m not as worried about over-loading the grid now as I was before.
May 4th, 2010 (9:57 am)I wouldn’t worry. My guess is NO utility has software capable of calling your car’s OnStar phone number to signal it to stop charging. Even if they do, you will have to sign up for it. Also, OnStar is a service YOU THE OWNER have to pay for. Don’t pay for it, don’t sign up for the service at the dealer, no OnStar. Also remember this is essentially a cell phone based service. I have to stand on my deck sometimes to get a signal strong enough to call out. In the confines of my garage on the lower level? Forget it!
+4
May 4th, 2010 (10:02 am)I am amazed at the over reaction in this thread to Electric Utilities’ ability to control charging.This is a solution in search of a problem.
I doubt that GM will need to activate the “Grid Control” system anytime soon. The Volt will have hardly any impact on the electric grid for the next 10 years even if if the Volt becomes a big seller.
+2
May 4th, 2010 (10:04 am)On a hot day when the grid is taxed, the power prices climb. In 2001 in Calif. they climbed to over $1400 per MWh ($1.40 per kWh) wholesale.
If a few power plants trip offline in these conditions, the grid needs non-essential loads to drop off. My viewpoint is I can use gas in the Volt on these days, and save the electricity for hospitals etc.
Note that this typically happens only a handful of days per year, so it still doesn’t economically justify your own solar system (at least not without subsidies).
+3
May 4th, 2010 (10:21 am)Good point nasaman, but you forgot Dan Petit. Although he goes a bit beyond optimist into a completely different realm reserved for the likes of screaming teens for Miley Cyrus or maybe ….Trekkie?
L
L . Love ya Dan – it’s all in jest….
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME
….You’ve all driven a pre-production Volt…..grrrrrrr….. <— green with envy….
+1
May 4th, 2010 (10:26 am)Thanks for the input, I never looked at it that way.
-1
May 4th, 2010 (10:27 am)When plug-ins start selling by the millions, if a lot of people charge them during peak demand hours, there will be problems with the grid. So this is a real problem waiting to happen, and I’m glad they have a solution.
Of course, if plug-ins never sell that much, then we have a different problem…
May 4th, 2010 (10:29 am)Yes, well said, +1.
May 4th, 2010 (10:31 am)Just in case anybody missed it – nobody commented on it yesterday – Wired Magazine is holding a contest, the winners get to go to Warren, Michigan, rap with the Volt team, tour the facility and drive a Volt on GM’s proving grounds….
Go to Wired’s Facebook and Twitter pages or their website for details…
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME
Here’s my chance!!!!! Oh boy!!! ( grin grin )
May 4th, 2010 (10:48 am)Awwww, but not nearly as much fun!
+9
May 4th, 2010 (10:49 am)Worrying the there will be too many electric cars on the grid is like worrying that there will be too many topless hot chicks at the beach.
/yeah, it COULD happen ….
//CJS isn’t here this morning so I’m filling in.
+4
May 4th, 2010 (10:57 am)#6
Actually, I don’t think we’re going to have a whole lot of choice, LOL.
+1
May 4th, 2010 (10:59 am)
May 4th, 2010 (11:04 am)#17
Yeah, me too. +1 to both.
May 4th, 2010 (11:06 am)#18
Amen. +1
May 4th, 2010 (11:11 am)Yes Herm, this is one among a lot of other possible scenarii.
BR
JC NPNS
+1
May 4th, 2010 (11:13 am)What, no more flex-fuel? WKOSIT?? I hadn’t heard, but that’s very disappointing. I also hope GM doesn’t “cheapen” the vehicle too much in Gen 2 by trimming off the battery’s thermal controls and intending it for shorter life. If so, neither version 1 nor 2 appeals to me nearly as much anymore. I think it’s a poor business plan to intend a shorter life to increase your sales later on. Give me quality or give me death!
May 4th, 2010 (11:28 am)Does “back-up grid storage” in the 10 yrs. of “post-vehicle use” here in this article refer possibly to storage of surplus energy on wind and solar farms?
I had read that surplus second-hand lithium ion batteries after going through their 10-yr. warranty in EV’s could then be “put out to pasture” so-to-speak on wind/solar farms. Specifically, the inexpensive batteries could be used by utilities to store surplus energy on-site at wind farms, etc.; with the stored energy then being released to the grid in a steady predictable flow.
George, Sudbury, Canada…go Volt…
+3
May 4th, 2010 (11:33 am)First he said the Volt would be the first GM vehicle to deploy the latest 9th generation OnStar system. Included will be the capability of turning off charging upon request of the local utility company if it finds the grid to be overburdened.
Yet another very big reason why EREVs are superior to BEV. Obviously, utilities need to do this to keep their grids from crashing – this type of smart grid charging is inevitable.
Now, with an EREV, having the charger turned off by the utility doesn’t leave unable to use your car. You just drive and use a bit more gas than you had originally planned. With a BEV, you may have to completely change your plans because your car doesn’t have the charge you need to get where you want to go.
+3
May 4th, 2010 (11:44 am)Yeah. You can mark me down today, but you can’t tell me those production estimates aren’t extremely disappointing. Or, are we all just being ‘psyched’ so when real numbers come out we all ‘get happy’?! You decide.
+1
May 4th, 2010 (11:45 am)You’d be pulling over more frequently than that anyway. What, you weren’t planning to text and drive were you?
May 4th, 2010 (11:47 am)#31
Another reason to wait for Gen 2 (3?), LOL. +1
May 4th, 2010 (11:50 am)So I should be fine for 10 years in a hot climate? Cool!
+1
May 4th, 2010 (11:53 am)I want to buy one now with cash. If GM can’t get one of these to me pretty soon I will have to look elsewhere. GM, please don’t squander the opportunity to own this market by keeping production to tiny volumes!
May 4th, 2010 (11:56 am)More like Version 23.
May 4th, 2010 (11:58 am)#39
Well I gave you a +1 for that, FWIW. Then some others piled on and wiped out the “-1s”. Good job guys!
Unni posted what I thought was a really good commentary yesterday on the need for GM to upgrade its ENTIRE product line ASAP. Even if they DID star churning out 50K Volts/year tomorrow, it wouldn’t be enough to carry the whole corporation.
Someone posted an excellent comment on the most recent sales figures as well. We focus on the Volt here like it was the answer to everything, but the whole picture is quite troublesome IMHO.
+1
May 4th, 2010 (12:03 pm)http://www.hp2g.com
This could solve efficiency problems for our imports along with keeping high-performance sports cars/pickups/SUVs that GM makes all their money on.
I’m going to say it one more time…lightweight this vehicle, THEN you’ll have a real game-changer.
Kurt
+4
May 4th, 2010 (12:05 pm)See, GM? You’re depressing a Shrink!
Find a way to get with the program, and get ‘r done!
+4
May 4th, 2010 (12:05 pm)I am getting a little worried about GM. If they decide to “play games” as to production, price and roll out they will get burned and we will be very disappointed.
As Tagamet noted -
“Boy oh boy, I hope that GM is pulling a “let’s low-ball the production numbers and then actually produce significantly more vehicles – at least in the second model year”.
I know it’s been a fantastic journey following this vehicle for the last ~3 years, but the thought of waiting *another* 3 or 4 years to actually GET one is just flat depressing.
Looks like I’ll need to adjust that bucket list item from “Buy a new car (Volt)” to “DRIVE the new Volt”. Even the latter is a tad off because we drove pre-production model Volts, but that’s splitting hairs. I can’t believe that I’d now consider a different vehicle with a plug (but not a BEV). Ford? – Did I say that out loud?”
I GM believes for one second they will have a free ride getting this car to market with this apparent process … it will be a disaster for them.
I am sure Ford, and other major car companies, will have serious competing vehicles very soon. (they just are not being as public about it as GM) The competition from other builders will not wait for you.
Plus if many on this site get the feeling of being “played” other hybrid options may become the dominate choice of many.
GM we are in your camp. We and many car buyers will reward you if you produce as many VOLTS as possible at a fair price in a reasonable time frame.
+2
May 4th, 2010 (12:08 pm)“We know from former vice-chairman Bob Lutz that GM will specifically be building four thousand 2011 model year Volts from 4th quarter 2010 through 2nd quarter 2011. An additional four thousand 2012 model year Volts will be produced in the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2011.”
_________
So a total of 8,000 volts until 2012. Then, maybe another small run up to 2013 .. . and then, I guess it’ll be time for Gen 2.
I can’t wait. Seriously . . . I can’t wait.
May 4th, 2010 (12:08 pm)#66
And doing an excellent job, IMHO. +1
May 4th, 2010 (12:13 pm)Right now there is power line carrier methods used by utilities to turn off water heaters and A/C systems. It uses the same technology that the remote meter readers use.
GM could have worked out something that reads the carrier and enables the ability to delay charging.
With 2-3 hour charge times, most of us wouldn’t care if the charging was delayed until after midnight.
May 4th, 2010 (12:24 pm)No gas tank size announcement (or MSRP) yet.
+1
May 4th, 2010 (12:42 pm)Man, I hate waiting. Always have. Especially when you are getting close to your destination. The Volt release date in October or November can’t get here soon enough. Time seems to slow to a crawl when you are waiting. I guess it’s an Einstein law of physics thing. I gotta quit looking at the calendar or something.
-1
May 4th, 2010 (12:45 pm)Looks like GM just lost my sale.
I hate onstar as it is and giving it this capability just became a dealbreaker. Unless I can order a volt with the onstar module removed, I’ll be giving my money to Ford on a Focus for sure.
The only one who should have a say in when I plug is in me, by physically plugging in a cable.
May 4th, 2010 (12:58 pm)Hey. Are we back? Database errors kept me away. I missed all you guys.
+2
May 4th, 2010 (1:14 pm)I don’t like the idea of being forced to pay $30 every month that I drive a Volt even if I paid cash for the car. Many will be able to pay and argue how low the cost really is, but it really adds up over the time period I expect to drive my Volt; and it will take a significant bite out of the savings expected from not buying as much gas. I’m not going to call it a deal breaker this far out, but GM has to know that “OnStar required” is extremely unpopular with many of us who would otherwise love the Volt without reservation. I think that a price increase would definitely be a deal breaker.
Someone at GM needs to sit down and figure out whether or not OnStar must be included for Volt ownership (in the first place), and whether they really need $30 a month for it (in the second place). We favor electrification of the automobile, but many of us will resist seeing the automobile move to a business model of a subscription service (OnStar, unfettered, could be the first step down a road which leads to this destination).
It’s hard to imagine how OnStar would actually have to be required to obtain on-board data in an age when we can plug USB fobs into our cars, then connect to a website (or use WIFI communication, blue tooth, WIMAX and perhaps a host of new competing information-carrying technologies which might exist in the 3 or more years most of us will wait to drive a Volt. It looks very much like GM just wants to guarantee some additional income — solely because they can …
+1
May 4th, 2010 (1:24 pm)At the risk of being treated like a troll: in 20 years we will probably be able to buy an EESU from EEStor.
-1
May 4th, 2010 (1:33 pm)… a thought just bounced off my head-thingy as I was ranting above (and edit time was running out):
If, as GM would have us believe, OnStar is primarily a safety feature, couldn’t an insurance company offer a discount in their rates which would mostly subsidize a subscription?
OnStar could be separated out into it’s most basic, safety-feature form, and then let GM try to sell premium use (cell calls, etc) at an additional cost. Insurance might pick up the cost of the most basic version.
How would you feel about buying a car, but paying a monthly fee for your airbags?
+1
May 4th, 2010 (1:39 pm)Onstar and offpeak/utilities.
I now have over a year using off-peak for my AC/heatpump, Hot water. Figured it would be a pain – but wow, the amount of savings is NiCe and no problems except… lol
The heatpump/furnace controls were getting confused when it was running already and it was ordered to switch – causing a error and shutdown. Fixed by turning furnace off and on. Happened 3 times — only an inconvenience since my wife is very* temp sensitive.
upgrade is supposed to fix.
Pre heatpump, my heating bill was running over $2000/yr. We got thru this winter with only $750.
I did the switch when propane hit $2.15 a gal.. Was looking at over $3000 to prepay on propane. (rural farm house, Minnesota)
So, please put up with onstar/offpeak. It will pay off. Unless you only drive 30mi/week…
May 4th, 2010 (1:41 pm)In 20 years, I’m hoping for Diolithium Crystals.
May 4th, 2010 (1:42 pm)You just have to stay tu…. I am SO sorry. That is unforgiveable, but I just could not help myself.
May 4th, 2010 (1:43 pm)I believe the MSRP was provided above at $37k.
Fuel tank has been rumored to be 6.8 gallons (for a year now). This fits the heavy foot scenario in the ‘over 300 miles total range’ equation. If high demand equals 20% less range than moderate driving. Then the total range on liquid fuel is within .2 of a 6.8 gallon tank. Making for a $20 fill-up from completely empty.
I believe it’s the idea of burning no gas unless you want to. Unlike the many hybrids that sip a little each time we drive. Most Volt drivers will have only 2 or 3 gallons of liquid fuel in the tank under normal conditions. Hope this helps.
=D-Volt
+1
May 4th, 2010 (1:46 pm)Welcome to the club guys. Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha! I’m glad for the company actually.
Taxpayers gave GM billions. GM has labored mightily and produced ….. a mouse! The engineers must be ready to slit their wrists. What happened to all the happy talk about millions of copies?
May 4th, 2010 (1:48 pm)Typically OnStar is free for the first year, with the option of signing up for years 2 and 3 at a good discount at purchase time. I’m pretty cheap, but it really is no big deal. The biggest problem is that we don’t use it enough.
May 4th, 2010 (2:02 pm)If most vehicles today carry a 5-gal can of gas or two, with the Volt, I will have to carry 4 or 5.
Sorry if you all disagree, but I would pay for the extra tank.
May 4th, 2010 (2:03 pm)Could Chevy be unhappy with the Gen1 Volt, and want to do the Gen2 before cranking up mfg?
They have overdesigned the battery pack. 8000 cars seems small — more like a prototype run, more like something’s up.
Makes me want the first ones more. Guess its time to find a GM dealer and put down a deposit.
Without knowing the price? hheheh no.
May 4th, 2010 (2:33 pm)I am aware of the rumored. I am just awaitting for the facts to come up in this site. I would figure that GM would announcement about the gas tank size before the MSRP. I don’t really care about the gas size. I just like to have a better guess on the MPG on the CS mode.
May 4th, 2010 (2:45 pm)So another word is that it is too expesivte to use it in the first place. I really don’t like the OnStar that cost money in a time base. I don’t mind to pay a fee that I had use as a service fees. I would not be happy about a $50 fee in one time used. It should be something under $25 and less base on what type of service it use.
+3
May 4th, 2010 (3:12 pm)“Smart Grid” technology is one of those “gee-whiz” solutions waiting for a problem. Sure, it’s fun for the engineers who are developing this whole new communications network and designing intelligence into appliances, but the reality is that if the power company makes it clear that electricity costs more during certain hours, then the “Smart Grid” will magically appear in the form of consumers responding to the financial incentive and using less power during expensive times.
A simple timer on your appliances and electric car can allow you to activate them so that they will turn on at a later time when electricity is cheaper. No OnStar, embedded microprocessors, or communications networks are necessary.
+3
May 4th, 2010 (3:17 pm)Did some research.
On the official site, the cheapest OnStar plan is $199 a year (“before tax”). You pay quite a bit more for “Turn by turn navigation.” For what “turn-by-turn” costs for a year, I can buy two Garmins or TomToms. This is no way to do business, IMO.
Probably “the latest 9th generation OnStar system” is mainly to allow data transmission, such as the on-board Volt data transfer we’ve all been told is necessary (and this assumption is bolstered by the notion that an information-enabled feature like suspending charge on utility demand is part of it).
So, what cost will GM add for this latest-generation OnStar data transmission? Or, will they simply require all premium OnStar services with a Volt? Don’t try to make me buy Cadillac OnStar for a Chevrolet automobile, I’ll be looking at other names.
I wouldn’t be happy with $200 a year for basic OnStar; but I would probably pay it, grudgingly, if it were a requirement for the Volt. WIFI, USB drive or other data connectivity should be an alternative for data transfer (who is buying a Volt near-term without a garage?).
GM, please don’t pooh pooh our displeasure. You are supposed to be repairing a perception problem, not making it worse by exploiting a manufactured connectivity monopoly for your cars.
May 4th, 2010 (3:27 pm)#75
I just checked and you’re up to +2 now, if it makes you feel any better, LOL.
May 4th, 2010 (3:30 pm)#75
I just checked and you’re up to +2 now, if it makes you feel any better, LOL.
BTW, is it just me, or it this thing running really slow today?
-4
May 4th, 2010 (3:41 pm)NO VOLT FOR YOU !
Anyone from Maine -or- New Jersey is certainly NOT worthy of a Chevy Volt in the eyes of GM.
And Yes Lobster head YOU STINK !
May 4th, 2010 (3:52 pm)The 9th generation of OnStar is incredible stuff. I have some questions.>
1) Since Volt is so OnStar-dependent, is a monthly OnStar service charge mandatory with Volt?
2) The smartphone connectivity – does it require my mobile service have the
full meal deal data plan?
3) Ford is going hog wild with it’s newest Sync versions – any chance GM can adopt
the same usability and services – it’s where the market is going y’know?
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME
+1
May 4th, 2010 (4:03 pm)Grrrrr
May 4th, 2010 (4:16 pm)Me, when my number comes up.
Even if it takes me quite a while to get my Volt, I’ll still get a Volt before I have a garage.
May 4th, 2010 (4:19 pm)Can you leave the battery in the Volt for 20 years? Will the range just go down?
I only have a 9 mile commute.. don’t need a 40 mile range. If after 10 years I only get 30 miles on electric that would do for me.
Volt is still looking good … although I would rather have a SUV version.
May 4th, 2010 (4:21 pm)Yup, pretty slow. I hit “refresh” and just wait for quite awhile for an update.
+1
May 4th, 2010 (4:40 pm)[quote]First he said the Volt would be the first GM vehicle to deploy the latest 9th generation OnStar system. Included will be the capability of turning off charging upon request of the local utility company if it finds the grid to be overburdened.[/quote]
Looks like I will need to build a Faraday cage into my garage ;p
May 4th, 2010 (6:01 pm)Dan Petite and one or two others may be feeling a wee bit alone about now. I thought he would have qualified for sure for the optimist club
+1
May 4th, 2010 (6:44 pm)Isn’t quality job one?
+1
May 4th, 2010 (6:48 pm)I just talked to a dealer in Michigan today about buying my Volt from him and driving it back to Florida. Can I jion the optimist club as well?
May the more dilligent shopper win.
Take Care,
TED
May 4th, 2010 (6:50 pm)I’m sorry Michael, but I don’t want to hear about GM engineers hogging all the fun, driving Volts around San Francisco and such. Like we can’t do the driving for their research. I’ll bet the Onstar charge to collect the info from us driving, would be less than their travel expenses and per diems, etc. Not to mention they want us to pay for the Onstar, so they have the fun and collect data from us driving around too.
+1
May 4th, 2010 (6:57 pm)Haa!,
Well it depends on which optimist club you are talking about. If you are a realist-optimist like me, then you have two clubs to choose from, here, and, my company, where about 450 of the best technicians in Austin smile happily to greet me when I get finally able to show up at their shops (three to five times each day, so, yes, I’m spoiled/self-actualized in business). So, for me, there is *no such thing as loneliness*. (Harry Potter, my cat, is just fine for me at home).
The other kind of optimist club is a little more chancy, which is the visionary-optimist club, which may describe many of the feelings here.
The other day, I wanted to know the exact meaning of realist, and, the definition also stated its opposite as “visionary”.
That placed lots of things into perspective for me regarding the group-dynamics here.
It seems that the closer to the top of the thread each day, the more there are the positive visionary comments, which of course collect lots of votes.
Apparently, when the first realistic statement is made, then I become interested in participating, even if it might have a realistic-pessimistic sentence.
It also reminded me of something the great inventor, Thomas Edison said:
“Invention is one percent inspiration (visionary), and 99 percent perspiration” (the hard work to do to make it work) (reality/realism). Thomas Edison was both realist and visionary, and had the funding “up front” to do these projects in the first place.
So, if there is a pessimistic sentence thrown your way from time to time, you can remain confidently silent, or you can think about it for awhile and have a realistic response that clarifies your position in a well grounded way.
(/… just another really long and enjoyable workday today.)
May 4th, 2010 (7:04 pm)Yes, really really slow for me.