Apr 22

Zenn/EEStor Update

 

[ad#post_ad]What better a topic for Earth Day?  The Zenn Motors/EEStor Inc. saga has entered a new chapter, and its not 7 or 11…yet.

For years we have heard the secretive Texas start-up called EEStor has been working to develop a new form of energy storage based on their newly-invented barite-based material. This material is said to be formed into small ultracapacitor components which are then stacked like cubes into batteries of any desired size. These batteries (EESUs) would have several times the energy density of lithium-ion cells at a fraction of the volume, mass and cost, with a functionally unlimited lifetime and ability to fully charge in a few minutes.

Zenn is the Canadian company headed by CEO Ian Clifford that through its 10.7% ownership in EEStor and exclusivity agreement would put these batteries into electric cars, and has helped fan the flames of enthusiasm in the unseen technology.

Last summer Clifford told GM-Volt in an exclusive interview that EEStor would be unveiling their decade-in-the making EESUs imminently and would be in production by the end of 2009. That date came and went without a press release or proof of function.  Though on Earth Day 2009, EEStor announced its powder had met permittivity milestone goals.

By late 2009 Zenn announced it was shutting down electric car production entirely to instead focus on producing EESU-powered drivetrains that it would begin selling to large automakers, in an Intel-inside like scenario. Since 2006 Zenn had been producing and selling low speed electric neighborhood vehicles. At this point Zenn has announced they closed their production facility, sold off the last of their inventory and laid-off 15 plant related employees.

At last month’s Zenn Annual General Meeting, Clifford and company revealed no details but still made the claim there were no technological hurdles and that EEStor-powered ZENNergy drivetrain systems would be on their way. They also claimed sufficient cash and low enough burn rate to sustain them through 2010.

New reports also claim EEStor founder Dick Weir has just stated in an interview “People say we’re late. We’re not late! Zenn put out some things but we didn’t authorize those statements.”

Will this or could this technology ever see the light of day?

High level GM sources have just recently told GM-Volt they tried in earnest to do some fact finding discussion with EEStor but “never got anything substantive from them.”

Others on the EEStor fan site EEStory speculate military contracting powerhouse Lockheed Martin, with whom EEStor has a military application agreement, might be secretly mass-producing the game-changing EESUs at its high security Lufkin facility instead of at EEStor’s strip mall store in Cedar Park Texas.

According to Lockheed spokesperson Craig VenBebber this is not the case either.

“Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control has no plans (nor had any plans) to produce EESUs,” he told GM-Volt.

Further speculation suggest that EESUs may be a secret component of a new electric grid load stabilizing technology Lockheed is developing and calls SEESuite.  Asked if this is technology includes EESUs, VanBebber says “none whatsoever.”

We would all love to see limitless range electric cars powered by cheap indelible US-made super batteries, and it is fair to say hope is still alive, but the world’s patience is wearing thin.
[ad#postbottom]

This entry was posted on Thursday, April 22nd, 2010 at 7:55 am and is filed under EEStor. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 93


  1. 1
    rvd

    +7

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    rvd
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:01 am)

    Did I miss smth? Where is the news?
    Why give eescam much needed publicity?


  2. 2
    drivin98

    +10

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    drivin98
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:04 am)

    “People say we’re late. We’re not late! Zenn put out some things but we didn’t authorize those statements.”

    Of course, he could have come out and said so months ago. It’s not like he didn’t know it was out there. Not late my @$$….


  3. 3
    Michael

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Michael
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:08 am)

    Lyle, have you ever hear the expression “stirring the pot?”


  4. 4
    Sasparilla

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Sasparilla
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:09 am)

    Yawn…


  5. 5
    Jim in PA

    +10

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim in PA
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:14 am)

    Pump and dump, baby! Pump and dump! Everything is going as planned!


  6. 6
    ejj

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ejj
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:16 am)

    THAT WAS NOT AN UPDATE OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER.


  7. 7
    IQ130

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    IQ130
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:17 am)

    “We would all love to see limitless range electric cars powered by cheap indelible US-made super batteries, and it is fair to say hope is still alive, but the world’s patience is wearing thin.”

    I guess we have to be more patient.


  8. 8
    JohnK

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JohnK
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:29 am)

    #7 “I guess we have to be more patient.”

    As GM would say, “Stay Tuned.” (sorry, I couldn’t help myself).

    LJGTVWOTR. (NMST)


  9. 9
    Baltimore17

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Baltimore17
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:38 am)

    I guess every generation of technology needs its own 100 MPG carburetor and the conspiracy theories necessary to keep them in the news.


  10. 10
    Loboc

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Loboc
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:41 am)

    Sigh…

    This ‘story’ has to go away until there is something to report.


  11. 11
    maharguitar

    +20

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    maharguitar
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:44 am)

    The only problem with EESTOR being a scam is that they aren’t asking anyone for money. If they are scammers, they are really bad at it.

    The Wright brothers sat on their technology for five years between 1903-1908. The press and the flying machine community constantly claimed that they were a fraud because, if they had anything they would surely be showing people. The Wrights, however, had a great distrust of people especially the press and bankers. As we all know, the Wrights actually did have the goods. So, it is not unheard of for a company to behave the way EESTOR is and still be legit. I’m inclined, however, to think that the Wrights are the exception that proves the rule.

    Since EESTOR is not asking me to invest, it doesn’t really matter if they have the technology or not. If they do than they could have an important discovery but that discovery would still be important five years from now since no one else is even close to anything with the same performance. If they don’t, it’s their time and money that they are wasting.


  12. 12
    CorvetteGuy

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:47 am)

    And in other hopeful news… Lyle, have you given any thought to publishing “EV & Hybrid Magazine” ? You have conquered the Internet realm with this site and educated tens of thousands… It’s time to hit the newsstands and educate millions! You can do it!

    Oh, and Happy Earth Day. Everyone wear your hemp tie to work. ;)


  13. 13
    Gsned57

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Gsned57
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:48 am)

    To me EESTOR is the reason the volt is so perfect. Cutting edge technology is always so promising in the lab like HFC’s and CIGS or a flat out scam like EESTOR. GM is using the technology that is available and not cost prohibitive today and engineering it into the best vehicle that can be sold today at a reasonable cost (GM it better be reasonable). There is always going to be something better down the road when you talk about technology but at some point you gotta just work with what you have and do the best you can. Otherwise you wait that perpetual 5-15 years for mass production of a science that isn’t easily engineered into something mass producible.


  14. 14
    RB

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    RB
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:49 am)

    EEstor lab sighted in Area 51. Pictures fuzzy. New ones soon. :)


  15. 15
    The P.E.

    +25

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    The P.E.
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:53 am)

    I would remind everyone that “No news from EEstor” is a reportable item. Today is the anniversary of what I see as their biggest announcement to date, (i.e. the permittivity results)

    Dr. Dennis deserves more courtesy than the tone that is coming out in these posts.


  16. 16
    Michael

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Michael
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:54 am)

    CorvetteGuy: Oh, and Happy Earth Day. Everyone wear your hemp tie to work. ;)

    Only in California.


  17. 17
    John S.

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    John S.
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:58 am)

    It must be a slooww electrica car news day to bring up eestor. I don’t know what more that can be said about them and I have run out of jokes about them. There will always be those that beleive in perpetual motion machines, the easter bunny, and that the Cubs will ever win the World seriers but that doesn’t make it news.

    I wish those who beleive well, but, even if the Cubs do win the worlds series, perpetual motion is proven possible, and the easter bunny leaves me painted eggs, eestor will still be a fairy tale. I would love to have a easter bunny egg on my face on this one, but that will not be the case because it is eestor that is the fairy tale.


  18. 18
    RogerE333

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    RogerE333
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:00 am)

    It’s always a nice fantasy that Joe Sixpack is going to invent a new technology in his garage and beat all those evil corporations, but I think those days are long past. Developing many of these technologies takes millions of dollars of specialized equipment and some very smart people.

    I’m reminded of the guy 30+ years ago with the electric car powered by thousands of AA batteries (some of you probably know the story better). He claimed it would generate more power than it used. It drove around in circles then stopped right where standard physics said it would. Supposedly it turned out that the guy’s EE knowledge was a bit hazy, he didn’t know the difference between a peak and RMS voltage measurements for an AC or pulsed signal. So that mistake was why he thought he had invented a perpetual motion machine.

    Still I wish these people the best, I just hope they are spending only their own money.

    Oh wait, they are in Texas? Obviously GW Bush and a band of renegade ex-CIA operatives are sabotaging their work!! I have proof but I can’t show it!


  19. 19
    nasaman

    -2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nasaman
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:06 am)

    maharguitar, post #11:: The only problem with EESTOR being a scam is that they aren’t asking anyone for money. If they are scammers, they are really bad at it.
    The Wright brothers sat on their technology for five years between 1903-1908. The press and the flying machine community constantly claimed that they were a fraud because, if they had anything they would surely be showing people. The Wrights, however, had a great distrust of people especially the press and bankers. As we all know, the Wrights actually did have the goods. So, it is not unheard of for a company to behave the way EESTOR is and still be legit. I’m inclined, however, to think that the Wrights are the exception that proves the rule. Since EESTOR is not asking me to invest, it doesn’t really matter if they have the technology or not. If they do than they could have an important discovery but that discovery would still be important five years from now since no one else is even close to anything with the same performance. If they don’t, it’s their time and money that they are wasting.  

    Well said. I can relate to the EESTOR (and Wright brother’s) plights! Having been a few years “ahead of the art”, instead of simply at “the state of the art” more than once, I can testify that it’s a heady but frightening plight to be in when seemingly everyone doubts you’ll succeed! :(


  20. 20
    Rashiid Amul

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Rashiid Amul
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:10 am)

    Thank you for the article.
    I think we all wish EEStor was for real.
    But they don’t even give us a taste of good news every now and then.
    It is extremely difficult to believe anything about this company other than bankruptcy.

    Scam or no scam? I say scam.

    Have a nice day all.


  21. 21
    Tom C

    +7

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tom C
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:16 am)

    Can we all say
    “VAPORWARE”
    All talk about a product with no hard facts or hardware to show prof of it


  22. 22
    Jim in PA

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim in PA
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:22 am)

    Gsned57: There is always going to be something better down the road when you talk about technology but at some point you gotta just work with what you have

    You’d think that everyone reading your comment would realize this as owners of computers. The minute you walk out of the store with a PC it’s already outdated and slow compared to what the store will be stocking in 3 months. And yet we all realize that it’s not the end of the world to just buy one already and accept the inevitable.


  23. 23
    Roy H

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Roy H
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:31 am)

    There are at least 3 very promising variations on Lithium batteries that promise 3 times energy density and lower cost. I would like to see blogs on these, and follow progress. One is Y Cui’s silicon nanowire anode, another is Dr. Nazar’s sulfur cathode, and finally Planar Technologies electrolyte. Since all of these are making similar claims, I wonder if they could be combined.


  24. 24
    Vonhumperdink

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Vonhumperdink
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:32 am)

    Lyle, Get ready for Baghead, EEventually and the cadre fanboyz to attack you personally.

    You just burst their buble, including Baghead’s that EESCAM has been delivering EESUs to Lockheed Martin.

    Cheers,
    Vonhumperdink


  25. 25
    Cook

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Cook
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:38 am)

    maharguitar: The only problem with EESTOR being a scam is that they aren’t asking anyone for money. If they are scammers, they are really bad at it. The Wright brothers sat on their technology for five years between 1903-1908. The press and the flying machine community constantly claimed that they were a fraud because, if they had anything they would surely be showing people. The Wrights, however, had a great distrust of people especially the press and bankers. As we all know, the Wrights actually did have the goods. So, it is not unheard of for a company to behave the way EESTOR is and still be legit. I’m inclined, however, to think that the Wrights are the exception that proves the rule.Since EESTOR is not asking me to invest, it doesn’t really matter if they have the technology or not. If they do than they could have an important discovery but that discovery would still be important five years from now since no one else is even close to anything with the same performance. If they don’t, it’s their time and money that they are wasting.  (Quote)

    I hate to let you in on a little secret but they have asked for money just not from individual pawns like you or me, what do you think they are doing with ZENN and Lockheed, they are taking them for all they can. Just look how well ZENN is doing now and on top of that EESTOR now throws them under the buss, do you think ZENN pulled those promises out of there bacside? Lets be real here, what are EESTORS operating cost to have space at a strip mall and submit a few meaningless patents. My guess is they have received more than enough money to do this. As far as the Wright brothers are concerend they did it in secrect with there own money!! EESTOR is nothing but a scam, I have a better chance of seeing streets of gold.


  26. 26
    ThombDBhomb

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ThombDBhomb
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:38 am)

    Lyle’s writing skills have improved since the inception of this blog


  27. 27
    Mark A

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mark A
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:45 am)

    **THIS JUST IN**

    EEstor still hasn’t made any announcements.

    Sorry, couldn’t resist :-)


  28. 28
    Mike-o-Matic

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike-o-Matic
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:49 am)

    To those who feel this story doesn’t provide the full daily RDA of Vitamins “E” and “I” (entertainment and information, respectively), you’re all certainly welcome to start your own websites and see if GM, Lockheed, EEStor, et. al, return YOUR phone calls, and have nothing but complete, truthful, and publicly-disclosable information to share with you.

    Good luck with that.


  29. 29
    DonC

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:54 am)

    maharguitar: The only problem with EESTOR being a scam is that they aren’t asking anyone for money. If they are scammers, they are really bad at it.

    Or more clever than you are. Here is how the cycle has been working. EESTOR gets money from Zenn. EESTOR puts out a press release which suggests a technological breakthrough or progress on its product. Since Zenn is publicly traded and has an exclusive marketing rights for EESTOR technology, Zenn insiders dump, er sell, shares to people like you and I. Repeat cycle.

    I don’t know if EESTOR is a scam or if its technology has any value or not, but it does appear that the public statements, announcements, and leaks from both EESTOR and Zenn are designed to maximize the price of Zenn securities.


  30. 30
    Mike-o-Matic

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike-o-Matic
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:54 am)

    Vonhumperdink: You just burst their buble

    http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:-kL2oYYzSIjDWM:http://2fm.rte.ie/blogs/will_leahy_news/Michael%2520Buble.jpg/img
    “OW… that hurts!”


  31. 31
    Vonhumperdink

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Vonhumperdink
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (9:59 am)

    Mike-o-Matic: “OW… that hurts!”  (Quote)

    I must have hurt one of the fanboys feelings, or could it be Baghead hiding under a fake name?
    TOO BAD!!!
    Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!


  32. 32
    Mike-o-Matic

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike-o-Matic
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (10:02 am)

    Vonhumperdink: I must have hurt someones feelings.

    Is it painful, being humor-impaired?


  33. 33
    Dave G

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave G
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (10:11 am)

    From the article: High level GM sources have just recently told GM-Volt they tried in earnest to do some fact finding discussion with EEStor but “never got anything substantive from them.”

    Hey Lyle, You’re actually starting to sound like a news reporter! Keep up the great site.


  34. 34
    Ed Sasha

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ed Sasha
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (10:11 am)

    DonC:
    …Zenn insiders dump, er sell, shares to people like you and I. Repeat cycle.

    If that were the case we would have seen ZENN insider trades reported. No buys, no sells lately, except for one small at-market buy earlier this year. Got any other ideas to support your position?


  35. 35
    APC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    APC
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (10:24 am)

    The way I see it- people spend tons of money on the lottery for a 1 in 100,000,000 chance of a return on investment. Even as flaky as EESTOR seems to be, your odds are probably better placing bets with them than with powerball. If it goes nowhere, you’re out some play money. If it takes off, WIN! I just hope no one put their house up for it.


  36. 36
    Mike-o-Matic

    -2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike-o-Matic
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (10:28 am)

    Vonhumperdink: I must have hurt one of the fanboys feelings, or could it be Baghead hiding under a fake name?
    TOO BAD!!!
    Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    Nice ninja edit.


  37. 37
    Jim I

    +8

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim I
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (10:29 am)

    Lyle,

    Thanks for the laugh today!!!!

    You forgot to mention one very important item – Who invented the compounds for the EEStor units!

    I have an exclusive photograph, that I have been permitted to reveal, right here at gm-volt.com.

    Yeti.jpg

    The Yeti knows and sees all!!!!!

    You read and saw it here first, because inquiring minds want to know…………..

    :-)


  38. 38
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (10:31 am)

    ThombDBhomb: Lyle’s writing skills have improved since the inception of this blog

    #26

    Great to “see” you man. +1 for that. Where ya been? Don’t be a stranger.

    Great comments today guys. Thomb’s comment on Lyle’s writing (reporting?) skills apply as well to all of the bloggers here. We all just seem to get more literate every day, LOL. Well, with a few well known exceptions from under the bridge maybe. Although they provide some useful comic relief IMHO, so it’s all good.


  39. 39
    D Greenwood

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    D Greenwood
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (10:43 am)

    If you charge a Volt for to long, like plugging it in and forgetting for a few days, does it deminish the life of the battery like in other batteries or will it shut off when fully charged? Thanks


  40. 40
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (10:45 am)

    OT, but there was a pretty extensive piece on PBS last night about the state of GM, the “loan” paybacks, and prospects for the future. The did a pretty long interview with a Detroit News reporter. I doubt if any of it was new to any of you guys, but still useful, IMHO.

    The most interesting thing was that the background video was of Mr. Whitacre and a gaggle of GM employees grouped around a Volt. It was as striking an illustration as I have seen of the priceless “halo” value of the Volt to GM at so many levels.


  41. 41
    fredevad

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    fredevad
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (11:03 am)

    Just to fuel the conspiracy theories:
    Does Lyle know something that we don’t and is under a gag order about it?


  42. 42
    Eco_Turbo

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Eco_Turbo
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (11:08 am)

    Gag me with a spoon.


  43. 43
    Exp_EngTech

    +16

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Exp_EngTech
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (11:16 am)

    With the public demonstration of EEStor imminent, I can now confess that I am the “Lockheed Saucer” Test Pilot.

    green_flying_saucer_6.jpg


  44. 44
    Roy H

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Roy H
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (11:25 am)

    D Greenwood:
    If you charge a Volt for to long, like plugging it in and forgetting for a few days, does it deminish the life of the battery like in other batteries or will it shut off when fully charged? Thanks

    The Volt has very sophisticated and flexible battery charging. When plugged in it will stop charging at about 80%. It can be programmed to start charging at any time. It can also be set to charge at different rates.


  45. 45
    ziv

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ziv
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (11:27 am)

    I just saw an article regarding a Voltec MPV5 that GM is touting in Beijing.
    Wheelbase is similar, about 3/5 of an inch longer. The MPV5 is 7″ longer overall, 7″ taller, 3″ wider, has a 32 mile AER, has a 482 km range in CS mode. Interesting!
    Article was ambiguous on timing.
    I bet tomorrow’s blog here will be on the possible new addition to the GM EREV lineup. 2 Voltec models mean that the $7500 tax credit will last twice as long!
    Rats, I thought my first entry had been deleted but it is up on my computer. Sorry about the double post if it doesn’t go away.


  46. 46
    RogerE333

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    RogerE333
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (11:37 am)

    D Greenwood: If you charge a Volt for to long, like plugging it in and forgetting for a few days, does it deminish the life of the battery like in other batteries or will it shut off when fully charged? Thanks  (Quote)

    Don’t worry about this — “left it plugged in too long” is an issue for trickle-charging NiCd and NiMH batteries, but this is totally different from lithium batteries as used in the Volt. For lithium the voltages for x% charged are well known — for 100% full, lipos are charged up to 4.2V/cell. For the 80% full as used with the Volt, I don’t know the exact voltage, but safe to say GM does (easy enough to get the value off of a charge graph).

    Due to the costs involved, I’m sure GM had put a LOT of effort into making it nearly impossible to damage your batteries. Although I’m sure someone will find a way to do it after the car is released.

    Sorry for the off-topic post.


  47. 47
    Dave G

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave G
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (11:42 am)

    From the article: We would all love to see limitless range electric cars powered by cheap indelible US-made super batteries, …

    Not me.

    For an EREV, anything more than 100 miles AER would be over-kill.

    For a pure BEV, most people would want to use it like they use a regular car today. So it would have to go 200-300 miles on a charge, and for longer trips, people would want to fast-charge it in 10 minutes. Sounds great – until you calculate how much power that would take. That much power can vaporize things, big things like hands and arms. It’s not a spark, its an explosion. So now you have to connect that kind of power to a car with snow dripping all over it. No new technology will solve this problem. It’s inherently unsafe. You won’t catch me within 100 feet of that.

    So the dream of pure BEVs everywhere – when you do the math, it turns into a nightmare.

    For me, EREVs and sustainable bio-fuels are the way to go.

    If all passenger vehicles were EREVs, and everyone only charged at night, that would replace 80% of our gasoline consumption. If people with long commutes can plug in at work, 90% of gasoline is replaced. So we’re only talking about replacing 10-20% of gasoline consumption with sustainable bio-fuels. We can do that without any affect on food supply.

    So there’s a solution that completely eliminates gasoline, is 100% carbon neutral, and has no affect on food supply. And this is all using our current infrastructure of regular 110 volt outlets and liquid fuel filling stations (which means it has the greatest chance of success).

    That’s my dream. What’s not to like?


  48. 48
    Roy H

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Roy H
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (11:46 am)

    This is definitely an OT day. So does anyone know how or when we might find out how many Leafs were ordered?


  49. 49
    statik

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    statik
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (11:47 am)

    Random note: GM has put up some new photos and did a rework of the sites. Here is the front page.

    /note the ditty under the tagline

    update.JPG
    http://www.chevrolet.com/pages/open/default/future/volt.do?evar1=eml_ch_adhoc_hr_0410_voltphoto


  50. 50
    Streetlight

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Streetlight
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (11:53 am)

    Being a founder-inventor-product designer having faced (and overcome) monumental barriers; I sort of identify with EEStor challenge. In my case, fortunately our (team sport) product sparkled when we were invaded by the media. Lots of free ink. Just a great experience.

    EEStor on the other hand used the media to add sizzle to its financing needs. Alas, this report which pours cold water, bodes ill. I can understand maybe as much as anyone the need for IP (intellectual property) security. (The saying is – invent a new mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door; My experience: Invent a new mouse trap and all the crooks will greet you at your door.) Whatever… I believe EEStor does have real IP. But can it be commercialized without having to give up huge chunks of equity to raise cash?

    The obvious is EEStor and Zenn must commiserate. But for whatever reason that’s not happened. Its Zenn who’s fate is at stake. I’ll bet there’s jillions of both private and VC cash awaiting Zenn to give up its exclusive rights. So here is free advise to both: You must, repeat- must, at all costs stay clear of litigation.


  51. 51
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (12:00 pm)

    Eco_Turbo: Gag me with a spoon.

    #42

    Where is Moon Unit Zappa, now that we need her, LOL. And yesterday somebody invoked Sheik Yerbouti. I guess I have to say it again, what a literate group. Frank must be smiling somewhere. +1


  52. 52
    Noel Park

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (12:03 pm)

    Exp_EngTech: With the public demonstration of EEStor imminent, I can now confess that I am the “Lockheed Saucer” Test Pilot.

    #43

    I rest my case. LOL. Literally. Thanks. +1


  53. 53
    Chevonly

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Chevonly
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (12:25 pm)

    We will provide more smoke in the future but we are searching for a supplier for the mirror, this will be the last stage before production of the EE-Stor perp machine and machination devise. As a side note professor OZ is still behind the curtain doing more research on how to get out of the strip mall in Texas where the R and D was done on this earth shakin technology. Let the PR blitz continue and they will keep the carrot in motion in front of us and not really have to produce or prove anything, and as far as the glorified golf carts that Zenn produced I doubt if they will be missed. I for one will stick with GM at least they have been more than open on the progress and timetable with the Volt.


  54. 54
    Sammyn

    -3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Sammyn
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (12:33 pm)

    There is nothing unusual in taking 5 or 6 years to commercialize a new technology. Bloom Energy has been working on their technology for nine years.


  55. 55
    DonC

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (12:37 pm)

    Ed Sasha: If that were the case we would have seen ZENN insider trades reported. No buys, no sells lately, except for one small at-market buy earlier this year. Got any other ideas to support your position?  

    Obviously unfamiliar with all the ways to run a pump and dump. Hopefully you don’t own stock.

    Ian Clifford is a piece of work. In fact he may be one of the few people in the world who can make Elon Musk look like a straight shooter. For amusement purposes only, have a gander at this video clip from September of 2007. Here Ian more or less says that Zenn will have the EESTOR product by the end of 2007 because EESTOR has announced that PRODUCTION units were going to be delivered to Zen by the end of the year and that EESTOR “appears to be on track”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1rpkLLRK8c (The true fun starts at 4:55 but you can watch the entire comedy for background). In 2008, he claimed that EESTOR delivery of EESU was “imminent” and that the famed “CityZenn” would be available by the end of 2008. Ha ha.

    Every time Zenn wants to do a stock offering EESTOR comes out with a press release. Nice how by acting “independently” Zenn always gets the benefit but never has to make any claims itself — Ian Clifford just has to confirm the existence of the BS or rumors coming out of EESTOR.


  56. 56
    RogerE333

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    RogerE333
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (1:04 pm)

    Dave G: So there’s a solution that completely eliminates gasoline, is 100% carbon neutral, and has no affect on food supply. And this is all using our current infrastructure of regular 110 volt outlets and liquid fuel filling stations (which means it has the greatest chance of success).
    That’s my dream. What’s not to like?

    That’s a nice dream all right, but I think I’d rather solve the electrical problem instead. If we had individual connectors to each battery it would be a trivial, safe thing. OK, nobody wants to hookup 288 connectors, but it shows the problem is solvable. You are overstating the dangers I think.

    If someone can add up all the fuel (whether regular or bio) used by the farmers in hauling stuff around and growing the crops, and prove that there would be a net positive fuel output, then I’m interested. The American farming system is incredibly fuel-intensive, and it takes a LOT of fuel to drive big trucks all over the countryside.

    As for algae or viruses doing magical things, there still has to be energy input into the system — they can’t create energy out of “nothing”. Conservation of energy and all that.

    Call me a pessimist or a realist, I’d like to see the money put into battery and solar cell improvements. These two technolgies exist now, are well-proven, don’t violate any laws of physics, and are very close to solving our current problems, they just need to be a bit better.

    ..or we can just wait for EESTOR to appear! (back on topic)


  57. 57
    GMVolt#1

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    GMVolt#1
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (1:15 pm)

    Sammyn: There is nothing unusual that it it takes 5 or 6 years to commercialize a new technology, that’s pretty average. Bloom Energy has been working on their technology for nine years.  

    Bloom Energy has a product, Dick/EEStor has no functional product.
    Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers woke up and realized Dick’s BS.

    Imagine if GM believed Dick’s BS and held up production of the Volt for the EESU?
    GM would be in the same sinking boat with Zenn Motor Corp..

    KP is out!
    LM is out!
    GM is out!


  58. 58
    sparks

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    sparks
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (2:02 pm)

    Agree completely. Although I’m a big doubter, I’ve been wondering what exactly happened to the EESTOR end-of-2009 deadline, but haven’t had the time to do any digging. So I was grateful immediately upon seeing Lyle’s post title, and enjoyed getting an instant update on the (lack of) progress. So Dr. Dennis, thank you for keeping tabs on this.

    The P.E.: I would remind everyone that “No news from EEstor” is a reportable item.Today is the anniversary of what I see as their biggest announcement to date, (i.e. the permittivity results)Dr. Dennis deserves more courtesy than the tone that is coming out in these posts.  


  59. 59
    RogerE333

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    RogerE333
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (3:03 pm)

    Dave G: For a pure BEV, most people would want to use it like they use a regular car today. So it would have to go 200-300 miles on a charge, and for longer trips, people would want to fast-charge it in 10 minutes. Sounds great – until you calculate how much power that would take. That much power can vaporize things, big things like hands and arms. It’s not a spark, its an explosion. So now you have to connect that kind of power to a car with snow dripping all over it. No new technology will solve this problem. It’s inherently unsafe. You won’t catch me within 100 feet of that.

    You make it sound as if the line is “hot” when it is plugged in. There is no reason for that to be the case. Geez, my $20 lipo charger starts the charge with a very low current and slowly ramps it up to the chosen current level. If anything weird happens, such as a battery internal short or whatever, the current is instantly shut off. OK this is only charging several cells and not 288, but I definitely don’t think it’s a case of, “No new technology will solve this problem.”. People have been dealing with these levels of voltage and current for what, 100 years? Although admittedly not at the consumer level.

    I am reminded of Thomas Edison saying over and over how incredibly unsafe AC power was, mainly because he was promoting DC. Guess which we all have in our houses now? I’m sure a few people a year get electrocuted, but oh well, Darwin award and all that.

    It *is* a lot of power, in total, but I think a solution can be found, perhaps as simple as having more, lower-powered connectors, and implementing it in such a way that it’s not a hassle. A solution is certainly not as pie-in-the-sky as algae, viruses, nanotubes, etc. which people seem to throw around as if they exist outside somebody’s laboratory.


  60. 60
    Itching4it

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Itching4it
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (5:28 pm)

    Dave G:
    Sounds great – until you calculate how much power that would take. That much power can vaporize things, big things like hands and arms. It’s not a spark, its an explosion. So now you have to connect that kind of power to a car with snow dripping all over it. No new technology will solve this problem. It’s inherently unsafe.  

    I wish people would stop saying things like this. Scare tactics don’t help and they are a warped and myopic vision based only slightly on science.

    In the first place, the “spark or explosion”, “connect that kind of power”, and “snow dripping” problems have already been solved at a lower, but still potentially dangerous, amperage by the J1772 connector that the Volt uses. There is no power transfer until after the system has verified that the connection is solid and has no leakage. There are no exposed terminals.

    Would I suggest using a J1772 connector to transfer 500 kW? Of course not! The connector would have to be huge and the massive cable required would be extremely heavy. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible, only that you have to break out of the gas pump mentality to solve the problem. Someone suggested a few days ago, “think car wash”, and that sounds like a great solution. I envision an EV rolling into the “car boost” where a blast of hot air cleans and dries the undercarriage. On a signal from the machine, the car opens a bay and drops two metal bars down to contact metal bars in the car boost that are moving along with it. The continuity and leakage checks are made and the current starts flowing.

    No explosion, no human limbs anywhere near the action, no problem.


  61. 61
    Bob G

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Bob G
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (5:29 pm)

    Dave G:
    Not me.For an EREV, anything more than 100 miles AER would be over-kill.For a pure BEV, most people would want to use it like they use a regular car today.So it would have to go 200-300 miles on a charge, and for longer trips, people would want to fast-charge it in 10 minutes.Sounds great – until you calculate how much power that would take.That much power can vaporize things, big things like hands and arms.It’s not a spark, its an explosion.So now you have to connect that kind of power to a car with snow dripping all over it.No new technology will solve this problem.It’s inherently unsafe.You won’t catch me within 100 feet of that.So the dream of pure BEVs everywhere – when you do the math, it turns into a nightmare.For me, EREVs and sustainable bio-fuels are the way to go.If all passenger vehicles were EREVs, and everyone only charged at night, that would replace 80% of our gasoline consumption.If people with long commutes can plug in at work, 90% of gasoline is replaced.So we’re only talking about replacing 10-20% of gasoline consumption with sustainable bio-fuels.We can do that without any affect on food supply.So there’s a solution that completely eliminates gasoline, is 100% carbon neutral, and has no affect on food supply.And this is all using our current infrastructure of regular 110 volt outlets and liquid fuel filling stations (which means it has the greatest chance of success).That’s my dream.What’s not to like?  

    We safely transfer far more energy in liquid form at gas stations every day. Making the connection safely is the trivial part. For example, you could just drive the car onto some bus bars. But storing enough energy on site to charge many vehicles quickly and developing batteries that will accept a quick charge are more challenging engineering (and cost) problems to solve.

    I have no doubt that these problems will get solved, but in the mean time I agree that EREV and bio-fuels are the best available technologies.


  62. 62
    T-Bone

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    T-Bone
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (5:30 pm)

    Dick Weir is an old man. He’s in his 70s. Old men don’t work as quick as young men. If he’s not pulling our legs, he still will take a lot longer than anyone expected to get the EESU up and running. Just ask any woman married to a 70 year old guy.


  63. 63
    Except

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Except
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (5:58 pm)

    DonC:
    Or more clever than you are. Here is how the cycle has been working. EESTOR gets money from Zenn. EESTOR puts out a press release which suggests a technological breakthrough or progress on its product. Since Zenn is publicly traded and has an exclusive marketing rights for EESTOR technology, Zenn insiders dump, er sell, shares to people like you and I.

    Except ZMC insiders have not been selling shares. The only insider share sale of any size was in connection with Ian Clifford’s divorce – other than that, they’re all holding onto their shares.


  64. 64
    Itching4it

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Itching4it
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (7:32 pm)

    Bob G:
    We safely transfer far more energy in liquid form at gas stations every day. Making the connection safely is the trivial part. For example, you could just drive the car onto some bus bars. But storing enough energy on site to charge many vehicles quickly and developing batteries that will accept a quick charge are more challenging engineering (and cost) problems to solve.

    I have no doubt that these problems will get solved, but in the mean time I agree that EREV and bio-fuels are the best available technologies.  

    It sounds like you and I are thinking alike, but I have some disagreement with your conclusions.

    First, I don’t think the filling stations need to store energy on site. I see no problem with having a multi-megawatt high tension line drop to a station located next to a freeway outside town. After all, it will be used only by people making long trips, not for driving around locally.

    Second, Dave G’s post was saying, in effect, “even if EESTOR is real,” so by postulate there is no problem inside the vehicle with fast charging. How’s that for an easy answer to a “challenging engineering problem” . [grin]

    Finally, I am much less sanguine than you about bio-fuels as a currently “best available technology”. Corn-based isn’t going to hack it, biomass is inherently limited, switchgrass may be coming but it isn’t here.

    My conclusion: EREV is the answer at present.


  65. 65
    Volt45

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Volt45
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:23 pm)

    For a pure BEV, most people would want to use it like they use a regular car today. So it would have to go 200-300 miles on a charge, and for longer trips, people would want to fast-charge it in 10 minutes. Sounds great – until you calculate how much power that would take. That much power can vaporize things, big things like hands and arms. It’s not a spark, its an explosion. So now you have to connect that kind of power to a car with snow dripping all over it. No new technology will solve this problem. It’s inherently unsafe. You won’t catch me within 100 feet of that.

    DaveG,
    I’ve wanted to ask you this for a long time.
    What if your vehicle had, say, 6 batteries with 6 connectors, all engineered for dryness and safety. Maybe they could connect automatically underneath. And if 6 isn’t enough say 12 or 24… I know it would be an expensive infrastructure change, but I’m just wondering if that would solve the technical issue of charging a poweful BEV.
    Just spitballing here…


  66. 66
    Dave G

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave G
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:26 pm)

    RogerE333: As for algae or viruses doing magical things, there still has to be energy input into the system — they can’t create energy out of “nothing”. Conservation of energy and all that.

    The energy comes from sunlight. That’s what makes algae double its size and weight every day.

    By the way, where do you think all the oil we pump out of the ground came from? 99% of it came from ancient algae. Fossil fuels are basically energy from ancient sunlight.


  67. 67
    Dave G

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave G
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:29 pm)

    Bob G: We safely transfer far more energy in liquid form at gas stations every day. Making the connection safely is the trivial part. For example, you could just drive the car onto some bus bars.

    Ka-boom! You won’t catch me within 100 feet of that.


  68. 68
    Dave G

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave G
     Says

     

    Apr 22nd, 2010 (8:39 pm)

    RogerE333: You make it sound as if the line is “hot” when it is plugged in. There is no reason for that to be the case.

    I’m assuming the fast charger would check for shorts and slowly ramp up the power, but there can still be snow or water inside the connector that doesn’t short until full power is being transferred.

    Look, I’ve been a EE for 25 years, and I’m saying that there is no safe solution to this. Transferring lower amounts of power is OK, but fast charging a BEV-300 in 10 minutes is inherently dangerous.


  69. 69
    Randy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Randy
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (6:55 am)

    The big problem may be figuring out how to keep the asians from stealing the technology and mass producing(pirating) their invention. that may take some time.


  70. 70
    Bill Marsh

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Bill Marsh
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (7:23 am)

    Technically they aren’t ‘batteries’. I think, at this point, that the EESTOR Ultracapacitor is the new ‘cold fusion’. Too bad.


  71. 71
    RogerE333

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    RogerE333
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (9:03 am)

    Dave G: I’m assuming the fast charger would check for shorts and slowly ramp up the power, but there can still be snow or water inside the connector that doesn’t short until full power is being transferred.Look, I’ve been a EE for 25 years, and I’m saying that there is no safe solution to this. Transferring lower amounts of power is OK, but fast charging a BEV-300 in 10 minutes is inherently dangerous.  (Quote)

    OK, as someone else mentioned, one possibility although not perfect, is simply to have more connectors. Imagine an ugly plug and fat cable with 10 pairs of connectors. Now each pair is charging about 28 batteries in series (thinking of the Volt here), which is fairly trivial and safe. Each and every connector now stays under 120 volts. If you’re charging at a 1C rate for a 20-25 minute charge time, that’s around 15 amps. Is this still dangerous?

    If you’ve ever known someone burned by a gasoline fire you’d be saying that was unsafe and “I’ll never put that crazy stuff in my car”. Although the one example guy I am thinking of was using it to light a brush fire, so Darwin award and all that again…

    And elsewhere, yes I know that fossil fuels are basically sunlight energy from long ago. But is this algae scheme really that much better than simple solar cells which just sit there without babying and produce electricity?

    I often think it might be cool to have a detached solar panel, perhaps 2 m^2 for a Volt, and move it during the day a couple times to keep it tracking the sun. The solar panel on the roof may sound good and have the “look at me, I’m so green” factor, but the projected area/cosine thing hurts. The main problem with the separate panel is that it may “disappear” during the day.


  72. 72
    Jim

    -3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (9:57 am)

    Vonhumperdink: Wrights are the exception that proves the rule. Since EESTOR is not asking me to invest, it doesn’t really matter if they have the technology or not. If they do than they could have an important discovery but that discovery would still be important five years from now since no one else is even close to anything with the same performance. If they don’t, it’s their

    Do you think Lockheed Martin, a company that deals very much with top secret, classified material, is going to come out and say “Oh yeah, we’ve been using those for months now. We’re even making them right in that building over there.” Ummmm, no.


  73. 73
    Tall Pete

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tall Pete
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (10:55 am)

    rvd: Did I miss smth? Where is the news?
    Why give eescam much needed publicity?  

    Your avatar is quite interesting for somebody following gm-volt. Just saying.


  74. 74
    Tall Pete

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tall Pete
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (10:58 am)

    maharguitar: Since EESTOR is not asking me to invest, it doesn’t really matter if they have the technology or not. If they do than they could have an important discovery but that discovery would still be important five years from now since no one else is even close to anything with the same performance. If they don’t, it’s their time and money that they are wasting.

    Well said.


  75. 75
    Tall Pete

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tall Pete
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (11:01 am)

    The P.E.: Dr. Dennis deserves more courtesy than the tone that is coming out in these posts.

    Again, totally agree.


  76. 76
    Dave G

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave G
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (1:59 pm)

    RogerE333: Imagine an ugly plug and fat cable with 10 pairs of connectors.

    Think chain reaction.

    Instead of 500,000 watts on a single pair, you have 50,000 watts on 10 pairs. 50,000 watts is still a lot of power. It may not cause an explosion, but it would cause a very big spark, enough to melt metal plastic and for an inch or two around it.

    So in order to make that work, you would need enough space around each pair, which would probably end up being a huge connector.


  77. 77
    Dave G

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave G
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (2:07 pm)

    RogerE333: you’ve ever known someone burned by a gasoline fire you’d be saying that was unsafe and “I’ll never put that crazy stuff in my car”. Although the one example guy I am thinking of was using it to light a brush fire, so Darwin award and all that again…

    Gasoline doesn’t explode if you happen to mix a little bit of water with it when you’re fueling. In fact, contrary to what we see on TV, it’s not easy to get gasoline to explode.

    Yes, gasoline is very flammable, but there are ways to control that.

    So it’s definitely possible to dispense gasoline and other liquid fuels safely.


  78. 78
    Dave G

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave G
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (2:21 pm)

    RogerE333: And elsewhere, yes I know that fossil fuels are basically sunlight energy from long ago. But is this algae scheme really that much better than simple solar cells which just sit there without babying and produce electricity?

    Algae can be used to make liquid fuels. Liquid fuels have the advantage that you can dispense a lot of energy in a short period of time safely. We also have a huge infrastructure of liquid fuel filling stations. And its not hard to design cars that run on both fossil and bio-fuels (e.g. diesel/bio-diesel, or gasoline/E85), so that allows for a seamless transition.

    For solar electric power plants, I think solar-thermal holds more promise than photo-voltaics. With solar thermal, it’s a lot easier to store energy and then use that later when the sun is not shining.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower


  79. 79
    kent beuchert

    -3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kent beuchert
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (3:53 pm)

    Believe it or not, but technology doesn’t advance because the “world has patience.”
    In fact, I can’t think of a single major advancement that occurred “on time.” That’s why they call it an advancement – because it ventures into new territory. The only projects that ever get dione on time are those that have been done thosands of time before. EEStor is not building a house here, they’re moving into uncharted waters. Nor do I really think that the guys in Austin are
    concerned because some yokel on some website has his patience “wearing thin.” Someday I’d like to ask these folks how one concocts a deadline for an invention. How can you set a deadline when you don’t know what the solution to the problem is, or even if there is one?


  80. 80
    r weaver

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    r weaver
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (4:01 pm)

    Thanks for the information.
    If it was old or “non” news to others etc. it was a good update for me. Like T Edison stated about looking for a working filament for his light bulb… “We know what does not work” So at least we know what this group is not doing. I also am aware that when there is “good” news about this we will read about it here first.


  81. 81
    BSlensman

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    BSlensman
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (4:21 pm)

    kent beuchert: Believe it or not, but technology doesn’t advance because the “world has patience.”In fact, I can’t think of a single major advancement that occurred “on time.” That’s why they call it an advancement – because it ventures into new territory. The only projects that ever get dione on time are those that have been done thosands of time before. EEStor is not building a house here, they’re moving into uncharted waters. Nor do I really think that the guys in Austin areconcerned because some yokel on some website has his patience “wearing thin.” Someday I’d like to ask these folks how one concocts a deadline for an invention. How can you set a deadline when you don’t know what the solution to the problem is, or even if there is one?  (Quote)

    Lensman, Peddle your BS at the eescamstory.com.
    Ian Clifford’s patient must be “wearing thin” for him to lie the last 4 years EEscam’s reveal was “IMMINENT”.


  82. 82
    DaveP

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DaveP
     Says

     

    Apr 23rd, 2010 (5:25 pm)

    Soooo the news is… there’s still no news. Oh, wait, Zenn is likely to run out of money before the end of the year. That’s new news.
    Sorry, but EEStor has either scam or “Engineer that knows enough to be dangerous but not enough to be useful” written all over it.
    I’ll summarize. As far as capacitors go, anybody can do high voltage, anybody can do high permittivity. Nobody has done both at the same time because the fields saturate. These guys claim there’s no need to show a prototype since the real hurdle is the manufacturing but I have to completely disagree. The real hurdle is being able to build such a thing AT ALL, not to manufacture it in bulk. If you can’t or won’t build a prototype of something never before shown to exist (or worse, frequently shown to NOT work), there’s something probably wrong with your engineering and definitely something terribly wrong with your investors.

    Nothing to see here, just move along, folks. We should continue to ignore these guys until they show up with some kind of working anything.


  83. 83
    Manny

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Manny
     Says

     

    Apr 24th, 2010 (7:38 am)

    EEstor’ claims is hype, but ultracapacitors do exist and are made by other companies.


  84. 84
    Darius

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Darius
     Says

     

    Apr 25th, 2010 (3:54 pm)

    Thank you Lyly. Perfect article and good discussion.

    To Dave,

    Charger issue is solved 100 years ago. The electric trains are operating at the same capacity level and no wories with voltage or capacity. I should remaind you that EEstor voltage level 3500 V. At this voltage level there is no any problems of transfering 500 kW DC power.


  85. 85
    concernedaboutlies

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    concernedaboutlies
     Says

     

    Apr 25th, 2010 (4:13 pm)

    Darius: Thank you Lyly. Perfect article and good discussion.To Dave, I should remaind you that EEstor voltage level 3500 V.  (Quote)

    I should remind you no one has witnessed any EEStor voltage level outside Dick Weir’s fantasy world and that is a fact!


  86. 86
    solo

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    solo
     Says

     

    Apr 25th, 2010 (5:43 pm)

    It’s time to pull the plug on this pig and call in the federal investigators. Can you say “Tilley Foundation?”.


  87. 87
    Darius

    -4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Darius
     Says

     

    Apr 26th, 2010 (2:44 am)

    concernedaboutlies:
    I should remind you no one has witnessed any EEStor voltage level outside Dick Weir’s fantasy world and that is a fact!  

    I have no problems with that. I have not invested any money into EEstor. Let them dream. Sometimes dreams come truth.


  88. 88
    concernedaboutlies

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    concernedaboutlies
     Says

     

    Apr 26th, 2010 (8:23 am)

    Darius:
    I have no problems with that. I have not invested any money into EEstor. Let them dream. Sometimes dreams come truth.  

    I’m dreaming with Moe, Larry, and Curly Ultracapacitors Inc. They claim their capacitor output voltage is 7,000 volts, double EEStor’s. I have seen the “data”.


  89. 89
    RogerE333

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    RogerE333
     Says

     

    Apr 26th, 2010 (9:17 am)

    Dave G: Think chain reaction.Instead of 500,000 watts on a single pair, you have 50,000 watts on 10 pairs. 50,000 watts is still a lot of power. It may not cause an explosion, but it would cause a very big spark, enough to melt metal plastic and for an inch or two around it.So in order to make that work, you would need enough space around each pair, which would probably end up being a huge connector.  (Quote)

    500,000 watts? Yikes, now I agree that would be scary. For a 1C rate on the Volt battery (recharging in under 30 minutes) I get about 18,000 W max. Divide that into 10 connectors and each is 1800 W.

    In any case the Leaf’s native port is apparently 60 KW, we will see how many people get arms and hands blown off by that very soon(?). Again, the connector is not “hot” until a safe connection is verified. Were you electrocuted as a child? I can remember trying to “start” a 120V plug by putting a key into it, but I only did that once!

    We will also see how many millions of gallons of algae-based fuel are created this year. I’m a bit skeptical on it, but that’s just me.


  90. 90
    Fred

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Fred
     Says

     

    Apr 26th, 2010 (12:26 pm)

    I cannot believe people are still buying this nonsense. Were they never told about the “Emperor has not clothes” story as children?

    Some things never change. Death, taxes, sucker born every minute.


  91. 91
    eewierdo

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    eewierdo
     Says

     

    Apr 26th, 2010 (12:47 pm)

    Tune in Tomorrow EVcast.com 4/27/10 ~1:00 PM EST.
    http://www.evcast.com/members/evcast
    There will be an EESTor/Zenn segment tomorrow @ EVcast.com 4/27/10 ~1:00 PM EST which Baghead and the cadre of fanboyz will not like.


  92. 92
    crf

    -2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    crf
     Says

     

    Apr 27th, 2010 (4:04 pm)

    I tell you Eestor’s not dead …
    It’s just pining for the Fords.


  93. 93
    EEBaloney

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    EEBaloney
     Says

     

    Apr 28th, 2010 (7:08 pm)

    crf: I tell you Eestor’s not dead …It’s just pining for the Fords.  (Quote)

    You’re correct EEStor is not dead, Dick and the 7 Weirs plus one will be milking investor for another 19 years.

    muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!