It is hard to believe how far they have come. Just four and a half years ago Aptera (then Accelerated Composites) introduced us to a three wheel, 330 MPG hybrid concept, priced at around $20,000. At the time of the announcement, the prototype was “approximately half completed,” but would be fully completed in a couple months, with production up to 1,500 cars in the first year, and full production running in 2 to 3 years.
Well, I guess they haven’t come that far after all.
Aptera starting taking customer’s deposits long ago, promising deliveries in late 2008. When that didn’t happen, they reassured customers that everything was still OK with the company, but production had been pushed back to October 2009. They also noted that customer’s deposits were safely tucked in a escrow account, fully refundable if requested. However, they were also offering customers the ‘opportunity’ to convert to a non-refundable deposit (that they could use as they pleased) in exchange for some future incentives discounts. Lucky day!
As we know, no vehicles were produced by October 2009, and Aptera, possibly punch drunk from missed deadlines at the time, just issued a more ambiguous ‘it is coming sometime in 2010′ release. That is until now. Finally, those locked in deposit holders will get a date they can expect their cars! Right? Nope.
Production is now scheduled for 11 months after…wait for it…after they go through a couple more rounds of funding. /behold the white flag has been waved
Related to the funding issue, Aptera originally sought some $75 million in ATVM loans, and had reportedly been turned down because of its 3 wheeled configuration that made it ineligible. But thanks to couple self-interested members of Congress, that benchmark was changed, and now Aptera has now come back to the table, but with a $184 million dollar request fresh in hand. I am assuming they have now realized it is expensive to build cars.
The new loan application is a long shot at best, there is still the sticky point of being considered viable for the term of the loan, which at 25 years, is probably 20+ years too long, even by Aptera’s own admission. According to CEO Paul Wilbur, “Aptera can only compete thanks to federal loans,” and those funds should get them through the next five years. /foot meet bullet
As for the car itself, this week we got a look at the new-new production intent Aptera 2e, a freshly reshaped homogeneous blob of its former self. This new, less appealing version of its former self also now apparently only gets 200Wh/mile, up from a estimated 80 Wh/mile.
Current information gleaned from the demonstration drive (no test drives please…come back in May) in Carlsbad, CA this week put the expected range at 100 miles from a 20 kWh pack from A123; but then again maybe it will get “nearly 200 miles” according to a conflicting press release from electric motor producer Remy International a day later. This is the kind of thing we have grown to expect following this car.
Looking for insight into the specifications, pricing and delivery of the 2e, you will find that
Aptera’s site is mostly full of tidbits like “…two carefully placed cup holders will welcome even the most enormous cup of Joe,” however it does reference the fact the car will offer “over 100 miles per charge” if you dig deep enough into the reservation system.
Currently, I am at a loss as to the reason for this car to exist at all. It made marginal sense when it was to come to market as a relatively inexpensive 2 seat alternative to the Tesla roadster in 2008, but now with the Nissan Leaf committed to delivering its own 100 mile BEV to customers later this year at $25,000 (after rebates), and with the Chevy Volt/Mitsubishi i-MiEV both also moving product in North America in 2011 ahead of the 2e, why would one buy a Aptera 2e? Maybe to cement your Über-nerd status with your peers at UC Berkeley? Seems like a small demographic to sell to.
If Star Trek is a good indicator of the future, at least the 2e will be in production by the year 2250. /sounds about right to me
-9
Apr 18th, 2010 (6:20 am)If you value your life, don’t buy one! This is a coffin on wheels! The savings on gas mileage is not worth it!
+11
Apr 18th, 2010 (6:31 am)Coffin on wheels? Have you seen crash test footage or are you just talking out your, ah, hat? Since it hasn’t been crash tested I can only assume the latter.
Regardless, main post is reasonably accurate and the people that have been following this car from the beginning place the bulk of the blame for the late (or non-existent) delivery and loss in efficiency at the feet of the crew from Detroit brought in to (supposedly) bring this car to market. The BOD though should bear an equal share of the blame though IMHO.
It always was going to be a niche car but now it looks like the only ones that will ever make it to the streets are the prototypes already built. Alas.
I’m sure most of the Volt-interested would turn up their noses in disdain at the very thought of the (original, non-bloated) Aptera, but for those who value efficiency in form and function, it was a beauty.
+2
Apr 18th, 2010 (6:42 am)So…does this mean it’s a 3-legged EV-1 WITH direct competition?
+3
Apr 18th, 2010 (6:49 am)Sad. Just sad. A few years ago they seemed very legit and on the up and up! What happened there? Did they just grossly underestimate how expensive it is to actually start a car company?
+5
Apr 18th, 2010 (6:52 am)From the video and photos I have seen the Aptera body is very durable. The problem with Aptera is that they painted themselves into a corner. The three wheel design should function well on clean dry pavement. But is not well suited for ice, snow, or sand. The Federal tax credit doesn’t apply to 3 wheelers. The windows on the Aptera didn’t open until recent design changes. The initial price target of the Aptera has risen. And finally, as Statik mentioned, there are several new conventional looking 100 mile electric cars soon to be available. Is the public ready to drive to work and to the grocery store in a futuristic styled car? Parking? Drive through fast food windows? The inline 2 passenger VW is a better fit.
=D-Volt
+3
Apr 18th, 2010 (7:05 am)Aptera’s model 2h is what has always interested me:
“This plug-in electric hybrid will give you similar energy efficiency benefit of the 2e, but with the opportunity to travel a distance of up to 350 miles. It can travel over 50 miles on electricity alone or engage its low emissions gasoline generator to achieve its full range.”
I was never interested in the 2e. I will never buy a pure BEV.
+3
Apr 18th, 2010 (7:14 am)Yes, I agree, +1.
Yes, I believe so. The current fashion statement seems to be something that looks like a big truck. That’s been around for a while, so the pendulum will probably start to swing the other way. We’re due for a change. Smaller sleeker cars will become sexy again.
+3
Apr 18th, 2010 (7:22 am)Statik’s best line….”I am at a loss as to the reason for this car to exist at all.”
Agreed. The Aptera is an impractical waste of time and money for the great majority of people. This “thing” is no safer than one of those powered parachute / paraplane contraptions.
It could be tough to put snow chains on that rear drive wheel !
I’d like to see how it handles an encounter with a deer at 50 MPH.
+4
Apr 18th, 2010 (7:30 am)Gee Statik, don’t hold back – Tell us how you really feel about this…………….
IMHO, it is an interesting design project, but not very useful for a large part of the country, where we have snow!!!!
+6
Apr 18th, 2010 (7:32 am)Take a look at this crash:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWYPa-Aqt_E
and then see the interview with the race car driver afterward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB3tOVAPxxo
It’s not the size of the car that matters, it’s the ability of the car to absorb impact in a crash, and the strength of the frame around the passenger compartment. Aptera is said to excel in both areas.
Note that in general, cars that are safer for passengers are damaged more in a crash. The car crumples, falls apart, etc. All this tends to absorb the impact, so the passenger has less injuries. The concept of a sturdy car being better in a crash is flat-out wrong.
+3
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:00 am)I’m going to tiptoe as light as I can with this critisizm… Lyle does a great job with this site and GM ought to hand him the keys to the first consumer ready car off the line. And here it comes… But I don’t like to read articles like this on the GM-Volt site as it has nothing directly related to the Volt. Sure I suppose if it has wheels, batteries or an engine it is indirectly related somehow but there are plenty of more open forum sites for such articles. Now I realize it has got to be tough to come up with some titillating Volt news each and every day but if articles like this make it in then it becomes easier to have another and another and pretty soon this site is just like Autoblog Green or Allcarselectric which are great electric/hybrid car sites but not Volt specific.
Go ahead and neg the crap out of me for these comments but I would like this site to stay Volt specific because that is why I come here. But of course it isn’t my site so… I’m sure Lyle has a plan as to what to do with this site once the Volts start rolling into peoples hands. I think there will be still plenty of viability with this site for future Volt news, updates to current Volts, Volt owners forums, aftermarket Volt product advertising etc. and that this site can stay 100% Volt without losing viewership and in fact gain viewership when Volt becomes mainstream.
+4
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:01 am)Are you sure? I think it is front wheel drive, which would make it much better in adverse weather conditions and also help regenerative braking.
They also state that the car passes all crash tests and safety specs for 4 wheel cars.
I haven’t seen snow chains on anything but a truck for 30 years and I live in Canada.
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:01 am)I don’t see this car, er vehicle, ever making it to market. Unless it is like the three-wheel cycles – very limited production. Maybe someone for whom this is a 4th or 5th car just as a weekend toy.
+17
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:08 am)It is just another EV. All EV’s will have a place in the market. The guy that would buy an Aptera is probably saying why would anyone buy a Volt when they can get an Aptera. Each one on the road is another gas car not requireing imported oil to move about the planet. It may not be the car for me but I welcome each and every one that will be made.
Take Care,
TED
+6
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:11 am)I think is was a big mistake on Aptera’s part to go after a loan with a 25 year term. This is clearly a niche car and not aimed at mainstream buyers. The original concept was low volume to serve this unique market, and low cost by not having opening windows and conforming to 4-wheel safety regulations. The new CEO decided to transform this into a car with wider appeal by upgrading many features. It does make it a better car, but the original purchasers were content with the original design. I think they should not have tried to go after the mainstream market. Still I like the car and hope they pull it off.
+6
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:14 am)The Aptera(ish) design along with VW’s Up!Lite are the two I’d most like to see in production.
Designed properly, I think these innovative clean sheet designs can provide acceptable safety, above avarage performance, and a level of efficiency that we haven’t seen anything close to yet — regardless of the propulsion (electric, ICE, or hybrid).
/assuming old school mindset doesn’t eff them up on the way to production
+2
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:19 am)According to Autoblog Green the newer design can now hold 4 suitcases and 2 bags of golf clubs. Getting obese like a large number of other cars on the road.
Take Care,
TED
+1
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:20 am)I’d like to see the full specifications of everything in it. The proportion of glass area could make it apparently too hot to get into for here in the Southwest. I used to fly small airplanes when I was going for my pilot’s license here in Austin. One thing is for sure, those small planes did not have air conditioning, and, when you flew in the Summer (8 months of the year here regarding solar radiant heating of a small cabin), you got into it when it was 140 degrees inside and not even realizing it was that hot inside. It stayed above 110 degrees (due to the latent heat of the interior) for at least the first 15 minutes before you actually made it to the runway. During takeoff, there began to be enough air flow to purge some of the heat. After getting up above 1500 feet, the air began to become somewhat “cooler” in the low 90’s.
For a car to be a daily driver though, that would not be a good or safe scenario if there is no A/C and there is “stop and go” traffic for you to deal with. Add that there were 68 days of 100-109 degree afternoons here last Summer for instance. So, the specs and cabin HVAC systems are important.
I have not heard anything about cabin ventilation, heating, or about other things like windshield wipers and other safety items. It seems interesting enough that it might be fun to drive on a nice 63 degree sunny day, (once at least anyway).
+5
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:28 am)It’s a valid design concept and I’m disappointed the Aptera is probably not going to happen. Designing with three wheels allows huge weight savings you cannot get when you are designing a car with all it’s federal crash regulations. Going for low weight and low drag is where it’s at. You can truly make it happen with a three wheeled electric vehicle. If someone (VW?, BMW) would come out with one I would seriously consider it for purchase.
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:40 am)Got the magnifying glass out, and, there apparently looks like what seems to be the tops of wiper blades just at the lower edge of the front glass area.
Anyone got the specs on it? Just curious.
+7
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:50 am)What is your basis for this statement? Look at the crash videos in post #10.
It’s front wheel drive, but the general issue about handling in the snow with 3 wheels is still an open question.
Probably better than most cars. Composites are very strong. The frame around the passenger compartment is similar to a race car. The crumple zone inthe front is well engineered. And with the shape of the Aptera, the deer would tend to slide over it more, reducing impact.
Apr 18th, 2010 (9:00 am)Many interesting ideas on both pro and con side as usual from this community. I would just urge a bit of compassion. It DOES go to show that starting up a car company is NOT an easy proposition. Clearly the Nissan Leaf is not in this category? ..It’s not is it? After all they have very deep pockets. They could not possibly flop. They will be able to deliver on promises. What is a little goal like 500,000 vehicles in one year? Oops, and I was urging a positive attitude. Sorry. Tag, help…
+2
Apr 18th, 2010 (9:00 am)For me? Static, Good update! Cool concept. GM should buy this company up and crank these things out in the millions. They would be cheap, made here with advanced materials, perfect transportation for million and millions in the South and West, for starters. Cutting edge technology for and from the world’s only Uber power.
People’s Green Car!
+9
Apr 18th, 2010 (9:03 am)New for the 2010 are roll down windows, larger doors, a lower sill, an opening hood to check fuel levels, five-mph bumpers and a revised suspension. Even with all these production-friendly changes, the coefficient of drag is still freakishly low – less than 0.15. To put that in perspective, a Prius’s Cd is 0.25 (though a streamlined Tatra T77 is 0.215, and that was in 1934). We poked our snout into the interior and not only did it look “real,” it also looked nice, with an iDrive-type controller and a medium-sized navigation screen and four HVAC vents. The trunk is pretty large, capable of holding four medium-sized bags and two sets of golf clubs. While still technically classified as a motorcycle, the Aptera 2e will pass all of the more than 700 car safety standards required by the NHTSA. A motorcycle only has to pass 38.
Take Care,
TED
+3
Apr 18th, 2010 (9:07 am)To be precise, there is really only one “Coffin Car”.
That was the “Drag-U-La” custom car built for the “The Munsters” mid 60’s TV show. It was also used in the “Munster, Go Home!” movie of 1966. I remember the movie scene of the race where a rear tire is blown (sabotage) and Herman spins out / nearly crashes. He stuffs the hole in the tire with rags and blows it back up with his mouth ! Funny stuff for a kid….
+2
Apr 18th, 2010 (9:08 am)Aptera served its purpose. It set a realistic baseline for range / efficiency that could be achieved in a vehicle with minimal utility. With that baseline, policy makers could then see the realistic tradeoffs between range / efficiency and utility. Two seaters on three wheels achieve this much, making four or more seaters with Y range / efficiency acceptable.
It no longer matters if Aptera gets built – the right products/producers already have funding – GM, Ford, Nissan, Tesla and Fisker.
The new management at Aptera appear to be making moves intended to kill this product, so let it die.
Apr 18th, 2010 (9:10 am)If Aptera has engineered their cars to this degree, then maybe that explains why they are having trouble getting a product to market. That in itself would make a car economically hard to be successful. But I seriously doubt that the Aptera cars are designed the same as an Indy car.
+7
Apr 18th, 2010 (9:15 am)To answer the safety question….
Composite body structures provide an impact-resistant exterior that is lighter than steel but three times as strong. Front crash zones incorporate race car technology that absorbs and deflects energy to keep the cabin from harm. Integrated high-strength aluminum door beams transfer crash loads into the body and away from the cabin. And a complement of driver and passenger air bags is incorporated to ensure that each passenger is always secure.
Static you missed it this time. Well maybe not the timing thing but the concept.
Take Care,
TED
-3
Apr 18th, 2010 (9:25 am)#1 Joe has it right.
The Aptera’s Standard Features should include 3 fold down handles on each side.
For your pallbearers.
+1
Apr 18th, 2010 (10:00 am)Don’t forget the price will be between 20 and 40k. (Huh?) And at 200wh/mile its the same efficiency as the volt getting 40 miles from 8kwh.
+1
Apr 18th, 2010 (10:01 am)It is sad that this awesome aero body desgin is surrounded by problems other than itself…..provideing it passes the crash safety tests . While this vehicle will probably only appeal to a nich market base, any vehicle that helps reduce our imported oil addiction is a good thing.
Apr 18th, 2010 (10:23 am)Sounds like you’re living in the past in more ways than one.
-1
Apr 18th, 2010 (10:42 am)I like the two extremes in the top picture…the “I’m a dork, beat me up for my lunch money” Aptera in the foreground… and the infinitely more manly 4×4 in the background,
+3
Apr 18th, 2010 (10:43 am)If apera was 4 wheeled , i would have gone for that, I think some big manufacturer should come up with a 4 wheeled aptera competitor/aquare aptera . I saw that some company called li -ion motors have a 4 wheeled design but i remember reading their product /quality is very bad and the company changes names multiple times but i liked the design.
May be GM /Ford also should move on similar lines for a low cost, high efficiency , Safe ,all season vehicle.
+2
Apr 18th, 2010 (10:46 am)Remember all those funny black & white films of flying contraptions about the time the Wright brothers were testing the first airplane? This Aptera vehicle kinda reminds me of those.
+1
Apr 18th, 2010 (10:47 am)If this does get 200 miles from 20kWh pack, and you can recharge it to 80 % of full in 30 minutes, as you will be able to do with the Leaf battery, giving it a 360 mile range if you can arrange for a half-hour break, and it costs between 20 and 30 k$, then isn’t this car truly the force to be reckoned with? You wanna be green, believe global warming is real, this is the car/er, reverse trike/ for you. Looking better and better.
Apr 18th, 2010 (10:50 am)You have to be very discerning when digesting manufacturer’s statements. I believe they’ve said that it is “designed” to or “would” pass 4-wheel crash tests. This is very different than actually doing the tests via 3rd party or approved methodology and passing.
Apr 18th, 2010 (11:09 am)“If Star Trek is a good indicator of the future, at least the 2e will be in production by the year 2250. /sounds about right to me…”
Don’t you mean “Stardate 1083.7″ ?
+9
Apr 18th, 2010 (11:09 am)Haven’t had time to read every post , as Sunday morning is busy over here – readying everyone for church and today, the Tulip Festival…yay!…
Statik had many points right on in the article, but I can’t help but see a couple errs based on opinion and bias. All-in-all it is a sad sad story. The Aptera was a safe, clever, efficient and always strikingly ahead of it’s time vehicle. Great for short trips and commutes with aerodynamics and an angle on safety that we may never see again.
For those who’ve stated the Aptera is/was a deathtrap. You only pointed out your unfamiliarity with Aptera’s technology and the tragic history of the company. For anyone who has ever watched a Formula One or Indycar race and seen a car fly two stories high upside down at 200 mph, slam into a barrier and other cars – then scrape to a mangled halt in a trail of tiny bits of carbon fiber and titanium – with nary a piece of the car left larger than a bedroom side table, and “MIRACULOUSLY” the driver walks away nearly unscathed….. This was the technology inherent in the original Aptera – composite construction over a tubular racing safety cage stronger than any conventional, heavy, lumbering steel and plastic compact.
The original iterations of the development Apteras had the drag coefficient of ONE DODGE RAM PICKUP TRUCK’S MIRROR! – And less drag than Lance Armstrong on his bike! That was why the car was shaped this way. The most aerodynamic shape on planet Earth is a raindrop, or teardrop. Look to nature to see how God shaped sea creatures and birds who move with speed and need hydrodynamic or aero efficiency to survive. This is why Aptera was SO EFFICIENT and SO CLEVER.
Today, I’ll agree with Statik – it’s a shell of it’s former self – so sad. I wanted one of these so bad before the two founders and inventors of the company were tossed out by the Detroit suits the Aptera board “recruited” to save the company.
They threw out the entire quick-startup – develop-on-the-run new philosophy that made Aptera exciting and new. Instead they slowly sank in dagger after dagger which eventually killed this excellent little electric 2.5 seater. Instead of following the founder’s lead, they tried to REDESIGN THE ENTIRE CAR INTO SOMETHING IT NEVER WAS INTENDED TO BE. It’s been painful to watch.
Wired Magazine said, ” The irony is that Aptera spent time and money reworking the 2e to make it more appealing to the mainstream when it had little chance of appealing to the mainstream to begin with. The Aptera has always been a niche car.” ~ I couldn’t agree more.
That “THING” in the photos – with it’s ill-fitting hood, it’s hulky mirrors, it’s lack of detail at the rear and it’s totally changed profile to make it bigger, taller inside with roll-down windows and airbags – The ugly new interior which looks cheap and out of a Yugo —- ( sigh ) it’s just sad sad sad.
Go to Jaylenosgarage.com and click on “Green Garage” to watch Jay examine in detail, and then drive the Aptera 2e the way it’s fans remember it….and you may understand what it was, why it was revolutionary and why this story sucks so badly.
It’s dying because the shirts have delayed it’s release for years upon years – taken deposits, hidden the truth, and just plain made bad choices at every single turn. Now they sit with a product that has zero chance of competing with large company products more mainstream and practical for possibly the same amount of dough! So I agree – it has zero chance at success, and I agree with many who feel that Wilbur is only holding out to profit from the millions he possibly could receive from the government – then scrap the company like has Saleen and American Specialty Cars.
My prediction is an easy one. Paul Wilbur is a sleazebag egomaniac. The poor depositors will not recieve a penny in return for their saint-like patience and faith, and, of course Aptera will not recieve any funding if Congress has half a brain.
I can’t believe I resorted to name-calling. Shame on me. I have to go now and ask forgiveness from the Lord for my indescretion, and pray Wilbur and his crew, wherever they may be, reach out for redemption and humility as well. Perhaps in yet another miracle, the wingless bird, Aptera will someway, somehow, sometime fly again.
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME.
Apr 18th, 2010 (11:18 am)Aptera could overcome a multitude of problems by switching to a “Kit Car” business model. And, in my opinion, would make the car much more attractive on price. I’m sure all if the tax benefits would disappear, but if you could get an electric car kit for $15,000 I think they would sell very well.
+2
Apr 18th, 2010 (11:24 am)That was the best episode of Munsters ever. I downloaded a copy of it to my iPhone just for laughs. The Munsters family T-Bucket was very cool too!
+2
Apr 18th, 2010 (11:24 am)I personally am humbled by Aptera’s bold venture in this extremely difficult territory. Let’s hope their technological breakthroughs are rewarded, and we see the benefits in future vehicles. Their energy and optimism is an inspiration, and I am not ready to label them a failure.
+4
Apr 18th, 2010 (11:52 am)Many misconceptions of the Aptera are being bantied about today. Since I’ve followed the story from near the beginning, I’ll fill you in on some fact, not fiction.
1) Someone pointed out that the government subsidy loans do not cover three-wheeled vehicles. That is not true. Congress reversed that stipulation which opened up Aptera to the possibility that Uncle Sam could bail them out.
2)The original iteration of the concept and first drivable prototype were rear wheel drive. The rear wheel was belt driven. As the project proceeded – it became apparent to the Aptera’s inventors that a front engine, front drive layout was necessary to meet performance requirements – such as wet weather handling and volume of the cargo area (large enough for two full-size surfboards, btw). The wheels were powered by a more conventional type gearset driving BOTH front wheels. The result was amazing grip and manueverabilty.
3)The statements in the article and in posts that nerds with pocket protectors and geeks obsessed with the latest-greatest uber futurama gizmos could only be this car’s market — are quite apparently stuck in a time warp. Look to history. I’m only 50 years young, but I’ve seen the Tucker’s, Duesenbergs and EV-1s along with many others, the forward-thinking, wonderful engineering of days gone by – fall by the wayside due to such narrow thinking. Try to open your mind to what your mental parameters are of human transportation, OK? Try to envision what cars will be like, look like 50 years from now – then ask yourself, “Why will they differ from what we’re comfortable with now?” Then look again at the Aptera and possibly have the guts to get behind out-of-the-box thinking. Look, you’re halfway there already, being a fan of the Voltec’s revolutionary drive system.
4)The premise that the Aptera 2e was primitive and archaic is just plain foolish. Quite the opposite, the car couldn’t be more futuristic and high tech. I won’t sit here and go into mega detail, but it would behoove you to do a little reading and research – I’d start with the Jay Leno test drive at jaylenosgarage.com, as it is entertaining and enlightening to anyone even slightly interested in electric vehicles and technology. It’s well worth the time. After that, Google some articles, Popular Mechanics and Popular Science would be good places to start.
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME.
Apr 18th, 2010 (12:16 pm)Lets see, silly people gave big chunks of hard earned money as a deposit on a car from a company that never built a car. The non car company then borrowed hard earned money from tax payers to re-design the car to actually run like a car. The non car company is now looking for more silly people to invest big bucks to get the redesigned car like thing into production. The non car company is making empty promises the first silly people who put down a deposit. These silly people actually believe they can get their deposit back upon request.
I bet this company is based in …… CALIFORNIA. Here in the mid west, we call this business a pyramid scheme!
+2
Apr 18th, 2010 (12:43 pm)Aptera created a road vehicle with excellent aerodynamics — something very important for efficient, fast transportation — and for that they should be commended.
With an EV or EREV you can regain some of the energy lost to accelerate a heavy mass with regenerative breaking during deceleration. You can also greatly reduce friction losses in a car by removing the ICE, mechanical linkages, using low rolling resistance tires, and other more efficient moving parts. However when traveling at highway speeds there is no way to regain the losses due to aerodynamics. An aerodynamic shape is of upmost importance in an efficient EV or EREV and Aptera set a very high standard in this regard. That should not be diminished.
+3
Apr 18th, 2010 (12:51 pm)Hey there “whipper snapper”, I’ve got something special for you….
http://rob767.tripod.com/hlaugh.wav
Apr 18th, 2010 (12:52 pm)Nice post statik. Always good to keep up with the wider world
On a slightly related note, I received an email yesterday telling me Nissan would be sending me an email on Tuesday (4/20) that would invite me to make a deposit on a LEAF. As Tag would (not) say, stay tuned.
Apr 18th, 2010 (1:09 pm)I have a feeling you will eat those words in about ten years.
Apr 18th, 2010 (1:34 pm)I’m with Carcus, Ted, and James on this one: the Aptera could be one very interesting vehicle. For all those who are always talking 0-60 times, with a decent driver train the Aptera would probably smoke the Tesla. Next to it the Corvette would be your grandfather’s car. With respect to handling, in tests a three wheel car with the single wheel in the back had a slight understeer and generally outperformed four wheel vehicles (a single wheel in the front created oversteer, not so good).
On the other hand, the drawbacks which no one has mentioned are (1) the vehicle is as wide as a Hummer so it’s a tight fit in a garage; (2) the wheel covers make fixing a flat not so easy; and (3) the extended wheels might (hard to say with no real world experience) be difficult for other drivers or the driver of the Aptera to see.
Having been in one I’d also say that the road is really right in your face — sort of like a gocart –so you’d have to have some large ones to go 80 MPH.
But to go back to Carcus’ point, at 1700 pounds — and with a ridiculously low Cd — the Aptera is a very interesting vehicle from a technological standpoint. My guess is that if both the Volt and the Aptera were available in the market the Aptera buyers would be more educated and far more technologically oriented. The Aptera also represents a different level of flamboyance. It’s hard not to notice it. In the parking lot where they were demoing it a small boy started yelling when he saw it and asked his parents: “Is that a car?”. IOW the “Look At Me” quotient is very very very high.
+2
Apr 18th, 2010 (1:41 pm)Statik — The point about Paul Wilbur shotting himself in the foot was hilarious and also quite true. But criticizing Bilbray for getting the loans extended to three wheel vehicles not so much. First, representatives are supposed to represent their districts not a wider constituency. (Ever wonder why it is that the federal credits for EVs seems designed exactly for the Volt? Could that be because it came out of the office of the representative who was married to the chief lobbyist for GM?). He did what he should have done. Secondly, giving loans based on whether a vehicle had three or four wheels never made any sense in the first place.
Apr 18th, 2010 (1:53 pm)i tend to disagree with the post where it questions whether there is any reason for the aptera to exist. after all, look at the number of internal combustion automobiles on the market. you could just as easily ask “why are there so many?” the answer is simple: different people want different stuff, and from the vendor standpoint it is a matter of finding your market segment.
i agree with your comment that there is a place for aptera in the market. however, it is clearly a different segment than that for the volt. the buyer of the aptera is buying a *second* car for purposes of daily commuting to and from work. aptera is not intended to be the only vehicle that you would own.
geographically, i think that the aptera is primarily for drivers in southern latitudes. it is telling that aptera will only take deposits from people who live in california. i doubt that the aptera design is adapted to working in more northern climates where the battery can be exposed to cold temperatures. i suspect that the aptera will do ok in warmer temperatures because the battery is air cooled so it gets forced air while being operated and the roof has solar panels to power a cooling fan when the vehicle is not being operated.
all that said, i suspect that the aptera is not subjected to anywhere near as rigorous a testing regime as is the volt. when it comes to new technology, the extra testing can reduce customer risk with regard to issues like driving range, operation and battery life.
Apr 18th, 2010 (2:04 pm)from what i have seen, the aptera has solar panels in the roof that power the hvac system. by using solar power, the hvac can be operated even when the car is turned off. the purpose is to maintain the interior cabin temperature within a temperature range to help control the temperature of the battery pack.
Apr 18th, 2010 (2:06 pm)I’ve been following the progress of the Aptera for some time now. Seems like they are being left behind. Even with the radical low drag design, the range isn’t substantially better than others, it a 2 seater, is expensive, and isn’t a complete replacement in capability for a conventional 2 seater, never mind a mainstream family car.
It’s only going to be available in southern CA initially. There’s not even a hint of when it will be available nationally.
Apr 18th, 2010 (2:13 pm)the aptera is still a niche car but some of the changes were changes that had to be made in my opinion. for example, the original aptera had stationary windows. this might have been great for aerodynamics, but a car with windows that don’t open is simply not practical. what do you do when you have to pay a toll at a toll booth? open the door?
the original car was apparently quite low. regardless of who you might think the target market should be for this car, i doubt that 20 year olds are that market. it is not practical to expect middle aged drivers to routinely slip in and out of a low-slung car on a daily basis.
there is invariably some conflict between what is optimal from an engineering standpoint and what is optimal from a marketing standpoint. i suspect that aptera is struggling to work out the balance.
Apr 18th, 2010 (2:34 pm)I am surprised, in my experience perception of speed is relative to height above ground. I relate well to the go-cart reference, but the Aptera looks higher than small cars and more like full sized or CUV.
Apr 18th, 2010 (3:14 pm)If there was 100 watts of panel there, that could certainly get some strong ventilation maintained with lots of air exchanges per minute. But 100 watts would not be running a 1,000 watt electric refrigerant compressor, though. But a complete interior air volume exchange every minute would help. If it had low-e glass, that would be an additional benefit as well, to reduce latent heat buildup in the interior surfaces from sunlight.
(If a decent wattage solar panel is in fact incorporated into it, it would be interesting to know the wattage of it, and, replacement cost if damaged by hail or other problem).
Apr 18th, 2010 (3:46 pm)according to information on the apteraforum site, the solar panels can produce between 100-150 watts/hr. i don’t know whether the cooling system drives a compressor or whether it just drives a fan when the vehicle is turned off. i only heard a comment from an aptera person who was explaining that solar panels drive the cooling system when the vehicle is turned off (this might have been during the jay leno interview). intuitively, i doubt that they would be driving a compressor with the vehicle turned off, or if they did, i suspect that they would limit the duty cycle.
+1
Apr 18th, 2010 (4:03 pm)I agree with Dave G… I don’t see myself ever buying a pure electric BEV until the infrastructure is in place. All this talk of the Leaf recharging to 80% in 30 minutes always ignores the fact that you can only get that with a 480Volt three phase charging station…which doesn’t exist. At least not where I live or where I need to go.
I know it’s a chicken and egg scenario, but until those charging stations magically appear I’m not going to be stuck on the side of the road with a dead battery. I’ve come home with my gasoline cars on the flatbed more times than I care to remember and it’s not a fun time at all.
Apr 18th, 2010 (4:05 pm)Do you mean a LREV (Limited Range Electric Vehicle)?
Apr 18th, 2010 (4:23 pm)Investment promoters are known for technological looseness in their descriptions.
150 peak watts is really not usually attainable statistically due to orientations, heat resistance in the panel (I studied 3 different types of panels, each very different and slightly less to far less than their packaging listed. One was rated at 60 watts and got 40 on a very clear and cool day, one was listed as 30 and put out 24 side by side to the previous. And, finally, an Amphorous panel rated at 15 watts put out 13.7 watts).
Duty cycling an electric AC compressor will not be efficient. I’d bet if pressed, I’m sure they would admit that their “cooling system” is really only a ventilation to minimize accumulation of very high heat, as I’d described above. But thanks for the research. (/try to get that test drive scheduled).
Apr 18th, 2010 (5:25 pm)But, The mass of a car is a good first order indicator of safety and this thing does not match up well in mass compared to what it might encounter (crash or be crashed into by) on the road.
Apr 18th, 2010 (5:32 pm)Hey dude, it is front-wheel drive not rwd and it has a tire pressure monitoring system built in. Those tires guards/drapes are removable so tires can be changed. I bet chains can be put on in snowy weather if you keep the guards off.
Apr 18th, 2010 (5:51 pm)I don’t buy the “mine’s bigger” argument. Most fatal crashes involve stationary objects or large (e.g. 18-wheel) trucks. The mass of any passenger vehicle is trivial compared to these.
Apr 18th, 2010 (6:06 pm)According to State Farm statistics, and they care because they have a financial stake in the matter, you are safer in a heavier vehicle.
A quick Google search shows edmonds agrees as well.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/121346/article.html
+1
Apr 18th, 2010 (6:26 pm)I had hoped the Aptera would succeed.
No other car on the road looks like it and some people really like to drive
something different.
Oh well. I wasn’t planning on buying one anyway, but I do think it looks cool.
Apr 18th, 2010 (7:40 pm)I for one am all for cars like the Aptera models. I also wish that the Govt would eliminate the safety standards for cars altogether. If you want to test cars, great. Just tell us which ones are safe and let us decide what to buy. We are smart enough to evaluate our own risk factors. If they did that, Aptera could build this thing with four wheels and call it a car and it might have actually hit the road by now. In addition, many other small and lightweight (read – fuel efficient) vehicles would be available.
The mandated safety standards have a logic problem. I can ride a cheap motorcycle with Chinese tires and no helmet in the rain and that is totally legal. But, if I want four wheels and weather protection, I must be in a heavy car with air bags and untold other mandated safety requirements. Cars would be cheaper if these requirements were dropped.
As someone who used to drive a motorcycle in rush hour around the 8 lane death strip known as the DC capital beltway, I know a little about dealing with my own risks. At this stage in my life, I opt for a safer car because I have the money to pay for it. My point is that the decision should be mine to make.
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:08 pm)Me too.
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:12 pm)Off topic, the WSJ has an on-line article today saying the 230 Volt mpg number (remember Fritz Henderson?), as well as an even higher number from Nissan for Leaf, will be erased by the final EPA standard, due out presently.
+1
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:28 pm)it’s all fine and well to wish that there were no regulations but the reason why there are regulations is that people saw the problems that occurred when there weren’t regulations. even at that, automobiles and motorcycles are two different things, so the regulations are different.
if you get into a major accident in a motorcycle, you’re probably toast. however, the motorcycle is relatively light (compared to an automobile) so collateral damage is likely to be somewhat limited.
if you get into an major accident in an automobile, with passengers, the safety features are likely to be the difference between a bunch of people living or dying – especially when your automobile full of passengers hits another automobile full of passengers. automobiles are also a lot heavier than motorcycles, so the prospects of collateral damage are much greater.
if you want an automobile with no safety features because you are certain that you think that you “are smart enough to evaluate (y)our own risk factors”, then you are welcome to do so as long as you keep it on a private track. however, if you want to take it on public roads, you don’t have a right to evaluate the “risk factors” to which you decide to expose other people.
that’s why there are regulations, because when you are on public thoroughfares you are dealing with more than just your own risks.
-6
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:40 pm)You are all stupid americana. This another stupid american car company.
+1
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:53 pm)I think the Aptera is too odd looking to be successful in the US, witness all the coments from the usually forward thinking members of this forum.. but it could be produced in small quantities in a similar way the Tesla Roadster is made.
Many small companies could spring up to make electric cars, just order all the components from vendors and assemble them.. after all there are no emissions, that right there takes off a large swath of regulations that manufacturers have to follow. The Aptera is not even a car, so it just has to contend with regulations that apply to motorcycles. Of course the US gov could change the rules the moment the Detroit 3 start complaining. Aptera is taking a regulatory risk if they come too close to what a car is.
Motorcycles are popular in India and China, I would not be surprised if similar enclosed motorcycles do not become popular in those countries
Apr 18th, 2010 (8:54 pm)It’s an interesting design, but nothing that would be accepted among the general public. Glad to see there are still companies thinking outside the box. It’s too bad this one isn’t making good to their customers.
The Volt is perfect for the early adopter as well as the general public. It’s a practical use of the technology in my opinion.
Apr 18th, 2010 (9:00 pm)The reason we have so many regulations is that government will always grow, and they have to justify their jobs.
Think of the Aptera as a motorcycle with some car safety features.. A Honda Goldwing weighs 1000lbs and has a 1.8l 6 cylinder engine..
http://www.honda.ca/MCPE/Motorcycle/Models/Specifications?Type=Touring&Year=2010&Model=GL1800AD10&L=E&colour=0
Apr 18th, 2010 (9:32 pm)what do you think would happen if that 1,000 lb motorcycle with a single rider got into a collision with a 4,600 lb mercedes benz s550 with 4 passengers? you can keep your motorcycle and i’ll take the ‘benz.
there is a big difference between an aptera and a motorcycle because the aptera is designed with a passenger cage and crumple zones (at least according to aptera) that provide protection to passengers. you don’t have that kind of stuff on a motorcycle.
Apr 19th, 2010 (12:16 am)This is outdated OLD NEWS! Bring on the VOLT NEWS !!!
With the Nissan LEAF announced @ $25K, this vehicle died!
Unfortunately, no one told the company TRYING to make it!!!
GO EV!!! (With a major manufacturer!!!)
+1
Apr 19th, 2010 (12:26 am)No problem. There is a great new video from Plug-In America with several different test drives. Also a good rundown of the features including the vehicle pre-heat. There is a cite from autobloggreen which says the test drives were probably taken a few months ago, but just looking at the background everything is way too green for a few months ago. Then everything was quite brown.
Assuming the test drives were recent, which seems likely since I don’t think PIA would sit on them without reason, a good guess would be either last Monday or the Monday before that. Those were the only days in the last few weeks where you would have seen overnight rain and temperatures consistent with what people were wearing.
Interesting Volt news such as more details about the charger (based on the Braun shaver) and the production vehicle will have much thicker glass than the integration vehicles.
Apr 19th, 2010 (12:43 am)That’s not what your cite says. It says heavier CARS are safer for TEENAGE drivers. It also says that SUVs, which are heavier still, are very UNSAFE for teenage drivers. So no, it doesn’t say heavier is better. In fact what it says is that newer safety equipment like side curtain airbags are the most important consideration.
There is no real correlation between mass and safety. The type of vehicle is more important than size, which is why pickups are just about the least safe vehicles on the road. Plus if what you were claiming were true, if heavier was intrinsically safer, Europe, which has much lighter vehicles. would have more traffic deaths per mile than NA, where vehicles are heavier. In fact the opposite is true. It is true that, all things being equal, more mass is better than less mass, but all things are never equal, so mass just becomes one of many considerations.
Painting with way too broad a brush.
Apr 19th, 2010 (1:24 am)Ever see a Corvette get hit head on? I did. The car shell literally exploded into many little pieces like a bomb went off. The driver was unhurt. That’s because the exploding fiberglass absorbed to collision energy. Just because it has an unusual shape and construction does not make the Aptera anymore a death trap then a “plastic body” Corvette. That said, I prefer a Volt
Apr 19th, 2010 (3:58 am)200 wh/mi????…. that’s no better than a Chevy Volt!!!! That HAS to be wrong surely.
With the all important obsession on a super low Cd and all the design compromises that entails, if they’re energy consumption is no better than a Volt or Leaf…. why bother to drive around in something that looks so retarded?
WTF don’t they cut the BS and start producing cars? It will only EVER be a low volume niche vehicle and any number of small British sports car manufacturers have shown that it’s possible to start turning out rolling chassis without waiting till VC round # 20 before a SINGLE production cars rolls off the line..
It’s just way too much BS guys!
Apr 19th, 2010 (5:53 am)Your reading what you want to hear. The article makes it clear that mass is an important factor just like my original post that said mass is a first order factor. Of course there are other factors. But, all things being equall, mass wins.
I would much rather be in my 4000 Lb equinox (which also has more safety features than this airplane cockpit has) than the Aptera in almost any accident. Crash them together and the Equinox will win.
Apr 19th, 2010 (8:11 am)The Aptera has a solar array on it’s roof that operates cooling fans in the interior lest the temperature inside reaches a set point. This issue was confronted in the design at the outset. One other geek fact: Notice the two large vents to either side of the rear license plate – they were much larger in the original ( non-screwed up ) version, and they exhausted warm cabin air out the rear. Test results revealed that the warm exiting air actually helped reduced any tiny amount of turbulence remaining off the tail and literally improved total coefficient of drag!
Perhaps private aircraft manufacturers could learn a thing or two from the Aptera originators, as they themselves are private pilots.
See? The more we learn about the Aptera – the more fascinating it gets.
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME.
Apr 19th, 2010 (8:31 am)The whole rolldown window issue killed the Aptera, IMO. It created massive arguments between it’s founders and developers and the Detroit crew who stepped in to “SAVE” the company, caused epic delays, and eventually became the sticking point that ousted Aptera’s pioneers.
First,you’ll notice in newer prototypes (not the totally re-done hunk of garbage that you see in the above photo) that there is a sliding plexi window at the base of the window frame. This was large enough to pay tolls or communicate through – and the all-important task of getting your drive-thru burger was as easy as flipping up the extremely lightweight door and grabbing your grub.
To address the step-in egress issue – Look, exotic sportscar fans have stooped, scrunched and twisted into their cars for ages. Look no further than Lotus/Tesla – You have to be in good shape to pinch yourself into one and they are not comfy. The Aptera 2e wasn’t nearly as awkward to get in and out of as people suggest. It wasn’t a car for the masses. The typical Aptera guy( me ) does not look like the BEFORE picture on those whiz-bang diet commercials. That guy will go buy a Fusion hybrid or may even join a gym and buy a Volt.
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME.
Apr 19th, 2010 (10:13 am)Are we sure this isn’t just a Terrafugia “street-legal airplane” with the wings taken off??? Hard to believe I’m the first to notice this similarity (I did a word search).
http://www.terrafugia.com/
I’m not against an exotic airplane-y vehicle, but I need room for my model airplanes inside, and if it’s going to be expensive I may as well buy a real airplane. The Yuneec electric plane which flew at Oshkosh last year looks pretty sweet. Basically an r/c model scaled up!
Apr 19th, 2010 (10:47 am)DOA, IMHO. RIP.
Apr 19th, 2010 (12:18 pm)AS an insurance agent – it is litlle better than a motorcycle. I just witnessed a man crushed to death in a minivan between two Pickups. And he was stopped at a light in a 30 mile an hour zone.
In the real world size matters for safety – I would never be caught in a Smart car or this aptera thining I am safe
Apr 19th, 2010 (7:17 pm)A most polarizing post this day- must say that I did not care for it. It is not that some part of it was not true- but some was not, and mainly, it just sounded like you do not like the Aptera and went out of you way to make it look bad- falls short of the standard usually associated with GM-Volt.com.
Will Aptera succeed, even with a Government loan? I have no idea- but I think they deserve a shot at it, for reasons already expounded upon in responses above. For a first car, I would, until a fast-charging infrastructure is built, prefer a Volt- but as a second car, an Aptera would suit me just fine.
Apr 21st, 2010 (10:40 pm)I have no interest in the Aptera, which is overpriced, bizarre-looking, ineligible for fed tax credit, and continually reneging on promises and predictions. But your post is disgusting. Childish, dripping with sarcasm, over the top, and generally tiresome. If you have such confidence in the Volt, fine, focus on the Volt and its merits………………… By the way, Volt afficionados shouldn’t be so cocky: the mpg figure was nonsense, and the price is utterly unrealistic even for most people in the upper-middle income range. The same people, that is, who have flocked to the Prius and apparently will continue doing so.
Apr 25th, 2010 (9:42 am)Hi,
I am a $500 depositor on an Aptera. I am also interested in the Leaf and the Volt. We need a change from what we all drive on the highways of the future as well as the highways of today. The only way we will arrive at the best design or designs is to have many different configurations on the road. One size does not fit all and having lots of options is a good thing. The one thing about the Aptera is the aerodynamics, a drastic departure from the current norm. Will it work out? Who knows, but let’s try all the options and may the best cars win!
Zak
Apr 29th, 2010 (5:56 pm)Really love the idea. Hope plus size clothing information could assist someone there.