Comments on: GM Doubling Size and Capability of Electric Vehicle Battery Lab http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/12/gm-doubling-size-and-capability-of-electric-vehicle-battery-lab/ Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 14:39:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: rudioneil http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/12/gm-doubling-size-and-capability-of-electric-vehicle-battery-lab/#comment-188853 rudioneil Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:22:07 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=3559#comment-188853 The quicker companies start upping their EV efforts the better. The world won't wait forever, and the sooner EV usage becomes ubiquitous then the sooner mother nature can start sewing herself back together again - EV is just the shot in the arm that she needs. I know that sounds a little pious and didactic but it's true. The quicker companies start upping their EV efforts the better. The world won’t wait forever, and the sooner EV usage becomes ubiquitous then the sooner mother nature can start sewing herself back together again – EV is just the shot in the arm that she needs. I know that sounds a little pious and didactic but it’s true.

]]> By: Roy H http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/12/gm-doubling-size-and-capability-of-electric-vehicle-battery-lab/#comment-188574 Roy H Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:35:08 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=3559#comment-188574 Although GM will eventually get into manufacturing their own cells, I think this is to evaluate more of the new chemistries being announced frequently. They are very thorough in their research and won't choose the next chemistry on vendor hype. Don't forget it took them 3 years to decide that LG Chem was the best. Just based on my limited knowledge, I thought it was obvious, but this is only by reading, and certainly there are many important points like performance at different temperatures that are not available just by searching the web. That said, I hope they take a good look at my current favorite, Dr. Nazar's Lithium Sulfur battery http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2009/05/canadian-research-team-reports-major-breakthrough-in-lithium-battery-technology?cmpid=WNL-Friday-May22-2009 As far as I can tell, this has got every feature you would want, much higher energy density, very high cycle life, non-toxic cheap materials, high power, wide temperature range. But this is still in the lab and needs to be developed into a commercial reality. Although GM will eventually get into manufacturing their own cells, I think this is to evaluate more of the new chemistries being announced frequently. They are very thorough in their research and won’t choose the next chemistry on vendor hype. Don’t forget it took them 3 years to decide that LG Chem was the best. Just based on my limited knowledge, I thought it was obvious, but this is only by reading, and certainly there are many important points like performance at different temperatures that are not available just by searching the web. That said, I hope they take a good look at my current favorite, Dr. Nazar’s Lithium Sulfur battery
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2009/05/canadian-research-team-reports-major-breakthrough-in-lithium-battery-technology?cmpid=WNL-Friday-May22-2009
As far as I can tell, this has got every feature you would want, much higher energy density, very high cycle life, non-toxic cheap materials, high power, wide temperature range. But this is still in the lab and needs to be developed into a commercial reality.

]]> By: pjkPA http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/12/gm-doubling-size-and-capability-of-electric-vehicle-battery-lab/#comment-188560 pjkPA Tue, 13 Apr 2010 23:43:06 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=3559#comment-188560 Good to see the increased capacity... more employees... etc... what about making your own batteries? and Motors? I've been saying it since 2000 when I rented a EV1 .... once enough people drive a electric driveline people will choose the electric for it's simplicity ... no transmission effortless power.... when GM starts putting in the hydrogen fuel cell ... it will put the ICE out of business. Good to see the increased capacity… more employees… etc… what about making your own batteries? and Motors?
I’ve been saying it since 2000 when I rented a EV1 …. once enough people drive a electric driveline people will choose the electric for it’s simplicity … no transmission effortless power…. when GM starts putting in the hydrogen fuel cell … it will put the ICE out of business.

]]> By: RogerE333 http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/12/gm-doubling-size-and-capability-of-electric-vehicle-battery-lab/#comment-188493 RogerE333 Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:28:34 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=3559#comment-188493 <blockquote cite="comment-188251"> <strong><a href="#comment-188251" rel="nofollow">BillR</a></strong>: I believe the Volt’s battery pack is supposed to weigh in at about 400 lbs (180 kg), but does anyone know how much the cells weigh?The reason I ask, is that the production cells seem to be performing better than initially anticipated. See this recent <a href="http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/12/gm-doubling-size-and-capability-of-electric-vehicle-battery-lab/#" rel="nofollow"></A> from CPI;<a href="http://www.electricdrive.org/index.php?ht=a/GetDocumentAction/i/15307" rel="nofollow">http://www.electricdrive.org/index.php?ht=a/GetDocumentAction/i/15307</A>On slide 2, it is stated that production cells are providing ~200 Wh/kg (energy storage) and 3000 W/kg (power). So if only 80 kg of the 180 kg battery pack weight is for cells, this equates to a 16 kWh battery pack. However, the power available from these cells is 240 kW!!It is possible that the pack may contain more than 80 kg of cells, yielding a pack with more than the 16 kWh of energy originally spec’d.I think working with LG Chem/CPI, along with verification in the lab has helped to push the Li-Ion batteries to new levels of performance. Certainly will be interesting to see the final performance for the Volt’s battery pack!  <a title="Click here or select text to quote comment" href="void(null)" rel="nofollow">(Quote)</A> </blockquote> Just a SWAG, but I'd guess the weight of the actual cells is under half the weight of the pack. There is a lot of "other stuff" there -- thick shell, insulation, connectors, heat transfer apparatus, balancing circuitry, wiring, etc. So 80/180 sounds about right to me. I'm sure the Volt's existing cells can deliver power way in excess of what will ever be required. The load determines the current draw, not the battery, unless the battery is a limiting factor, which would be a poor design. Plugging a 100 watt bulb into a 20 amp circuit at home doesn't make the bulb pull 20 amps. Hobby lithiums have reached the point (35-40C discharge) where if you used them at their full possible current draw, they would be empty in under 2 minutes. The battery current should never be a limiting factor for electric vehicles, even at the current technology level, unless perhaps you are an electric drag racer. So while higher discharge currents are always nice, what we have now should be good enough. I just wish I could get some of these CPI cells for model airplane use! Although I generally fly much smaller models.

BillR: I believe the Volt’s battery pack is supposed to weigh in at about 400 lbs (180 kg), but does anyone know how much the cells weigh?The reason I ask, is that the production cells seem to be performing better than initially anticipated. See this recent from CPI;http://www.electricdrive.org/index.php?ht=a/GetDocumentAction/i/15307On slide 2, it is stated that production cells are providing ~200 Wh/kg (energy storage) and 3000 W/kg (power). So if only 80 kg of the 180 kg battery pack weight is for cells, this equates to a 16 kWh battery pack. However, the power available from these cells is 240 kW!!It is possible that the pack may contain more than 80 kg of cells, yielding a pack with more than the 16 kWh of energy originally spec’d.I think working with LG Chem/CPI, along with verification in the lab has helped to push the Li-Ion batteries to new levels of performance. Certainly will be interesting to see the final performance for the Volt’s battery pack!  (Quote)

Just a SWAG, but I’d guess the weight of the actual cells is under half the weight of the pack. There is a lot of “other stuff” there — thick shell, insulation, connectors, heat transfer apparatus, balancing circuitry, wiring, etc. So 80/180 sounds about right to me.

I’m sure the Volt’s existing cells can deliver power way in excess of what will ever be required. The load determines the current draw, not the battery, unless the battery is a limiting factor, which would be a poor design. Plugging a 100 watt bulb into a 20 amp circuit at home doesn’t make the bulb pull 20 amps. Hobby lithiums have reached the point (35-40C discharge) where if you used them at their full possible current draw, they would be empty in under 2 minutes. The battery current should never be a limiting factor for electric vehicles, even at the current technology level, unless perhaps you are an electric drag racer. So while higher discharge currents are always nice, what we have now should be good enough.

I just wish I could get some of these CPI cells for model airplane use! Although I generally fly much smaller models.

]]> By: Streetlight http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/12/gm-doubling-size-and-capability-of-electric-vehicle-battery-lab/#comment-188421 Streetlight Tue, 13 Apr 2010 16:03:53 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=3559#comment-188421 I was convinced looking at the first lab photos that 30,000 sq.ft. was rather tight. This is more like what it should be than some sort of statement. Otherwise, if a statement is being made its that Leadership is ramping up playing catch-up. I was convinced looking at the first lab photos that 30,000 sq.ft. was rather tight. This is more like what it should be than some sort of statement. Otherwise, if a statement is being made its that Leadership is ramping up playing catch-up.

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