The Detroit-Hamtramck or D-HAM assembly plant is the GM facility where the Chevrolet Volt will be built when it goes on sale at the end of the year.
The Detroit Free Press ran an article about the plant and its manager Teri Quigley, which included some interesting facts.
The first Volt came off the line on March 31st, and last week overall three cars were built. The plan is to build nearly 500 pre-production Volts over the coming months before transitioning to the salable units, the building of which will start in November.
Besides the Volt, which won’t have its own separate assembly line, the plant will also be used to produce the Cadillac DTS and Buick Lucerne.
Quigley told the reporter she is seeing intense interest in the plant and demand for tours.
“I’m expecting that we will have all different kinds of visits,” she said. “I think it will be five times as many people as normal at the onset.”
The plant has an 1100 person workforce and is currently running one shift per day. Quigley hopes future demand for the Volt will eventually push the plant to a second shift.
She noted that her team began “quietly preparing” for the Volt in late 2008, a time of dark days for GM. In 2007 there were even rumors of the plants closure. Now the mood is positive after the plant got a $336 million investment to prepare for the Volt.
Quigley was very excited about the first pre-production Volt build, which went very well.
“It was a heart-pumping moment,” she said. “It’s real — we’ve been looking at this thing for a long time.”
She is also optimistic about the prospects for the future.
“It’s really, really great that we’ve got this Volt in our system. It’s real. We can touch them and feel them and do our job on them,” she said. “The desire to succeed is there.”
It is believed the D-HAM plant has a maximum capacity of about 200,000 cars per year, though GM won’t officially confirm that. ”We won’t publicly discuss line rates or production capacity for any of our facilities,” said GM spokesperson Rob Peterson.
Source (Detroit Free Press)
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (6:26 am)Hey Go Volt!!
They tell us, it has 300 mile range on a full tank of gas + full charge, if the tank capacity is 8 gallons and it gives 50 miles a gallon on gas alone (i.e battery fully depleted) shouldn’t it be 440 miles 50 * 8 + 40 (battery miles) = 440
Also, any news on next gen volt? range, cost, etc….
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (6:36 am)“It is believed the D-HAM plant has a maximum capacity of about 200,000 cars per year, though GM won’t officially confirm that. ”We won’t publicly discuss line rates or production capacity for any of our facilities,” said GM spokesperson Rob Peterson.”
I thought they had in the past and had said each one of the 3 lines at the plant has a max capacity of around 60K. The comment that the Volt won’t have it’s own lean seems a little disturbing. I hope this is only for 2010 or that puts another question mark on GM’s ramp-up plans.
Apr 9th, 2010 (6:40 am)Can’t edit. Should have been:
The comment that the Volt won’t have it’s own line…
+17
Apr 9th, 2010 (6:45 am)So I wonder if they put a few gallons of gas in the tank or stop and charge the batteries somehow to drive them off the production line.
Kinda breaks your heart to know that all the Volts we have seen so far will be crashed, crushed or otherwise disposed of. They are way too good looking for that.
Too bad they don’t have an “Adopt a PreProduction Volt” program.
Congrats to everyone at DHAM!
GO VOLT!
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (6:47 am)Keep those Volts rolling off the line!
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (6:52 am)GM management may limit numbers, but at least Ms. Quigley seems all set to go and willing to put on a second shift to meet demand. This again suggests production limited by battery availability.
+23
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:06 am)So where are all the “this is just more GM vaporware” people now????
THE VOLT IS REAL!!!
Now I just have to figure out how to get one into my garage………………
Have Plug – Ready For EREV
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:08 am)So, from the picture, the painted black roof is still at least an option. Anybody have any confirmation that a black glass roof will be available as an option?
Good question in post (4) whether they drive off the line under gasoline or battery power. It’d be a more complete system test if the engine were running the generator which powered the car off the line.
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:10 am)This just means the tooling can handle multiple styles. I believe GM also adopted the cartridge system, similiar to what Japan is/was doing, where a cartridge of parts is parked next to the line for assembly by a robot or manually. I personally don’t think this is a smart way to go, and I think the Japanese have started to change back. I think Ford is not even going to try this type of system.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:13 am)I don’t remember anybody limiting production of the first emission controlled cars of the 70s, just because they were afraid that 80s and 90s cars would make them seem like pieces of garbage.
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:16 am)DOes anyone know if there is any carbon fibre in the volt. Would be a good place to start using it.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:16 am)I’m not sure, but in looking at the full article, it appears that Ms. Quigley may be the one driving that first Volt off the line. See her picture top right side of Detroit Press article.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100408/BUSINESS01/4080442/&template=fullarticle
Good for her. So who are the other guys in the passenger seats? I’ll bet four people don’t drive every car off every assembly line.
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:19 am)Possibly a “production mix” is happening, of different other types of vehicles for the same line Volt is on, so that the line is still kept “in the money” with vehicles that can be sold right away.
If that is the case, it would suggest a production line flexibility that could be utilized based on product demand to ensure cash flow.
Five times as many requests for tours would certainly include “the competition” (lol).
(Producing Volts outside of the visiting hour might be the thing to do if not already the case).
(“Register” for your free tickets early! lol).
I agree with DonC, that there is an underestimation of the demand for Volt.
Especially if that $7500 tax credit can, for example, be applied to GM’s loan debt directly, and, those of us on the Chevy Store wait list can benefit via a lease for a year or two. Then conventionally refinance at a preset residual that takes into account 100 percent of the payment principle if the lease factor is low enough. (Lease factor is similar to APR, but it is generally set higher than what a conventional secured loan interest rate would be). Currently, I have been paying .0675%, and, of my $348 payment I just made, $333 was toward principal, leaving a $2028 balance (6 more payments) on a vehicle that still will retail for $12,000 if I can work the logistics to use all that as a down payment. (Lease buyout to be available at any time would also be motivational).
One thing I know, that of my 65 hour work week, 20 hours of it will be going toward explaining to the general public all about Volt. This, as I see it, would have anyone else buying a Volt doing the same thing (but not so many hours).
What I am getting at, is that first Volt buyers will be doing work, real work, to thoroughly “earn” that $7,500. So, it would not be at all fair for anyone to say that $7500 to be a “giveaway” of any sort by any means.
In formally justifying if there were to be a $10,000 total immediate incentive here, I would certainly certify that the Volt owner, if highly “visible” for the public to be educated during his/her normal work hours, after work hours, be invited to events, Volt parties, Volt speaking engagements, Business group meetings, and on and on, using a very significant amount of their time, then, that the more fair incentive for a public participation policy from the new Volt owner, the incentive to properly compensate for that would actually be that $10,000 figure, (which would be a bargain), just as is being done up there in Canada.
I estimate that Volt questions to the owner will prevail for at least 18 months after acquisition, (as had happened to me with *only* just the new *styling* of the 05 Element). But with Volt, the questions will be three times as many, for five times as long for the amount of time for each encounter with the entranced public.
I am
***very glad***
that the Volt looks just like a Malibu, and has a reserved look to it.
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:19 am)Why do they need 4 people to drive that car off the line?
Go VOLT!
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:22 am)The Volt concept had some composites to reduce weight but the decision was made to use steel in the production car to reduce costs. I don’t remember hearing about any significant composites in the production car.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:27 am)Wow 500 volts that will be crushed. They are serious about getting this correct ! I cant even conceive of that.
Tom
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:29 am)Is that the sharkfin antenna? God I hope so. The Jetsons-style one on the Volt at the Auto Show was .. uh, not attractive.
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:31 am)Dan P said:
What I am getting at, is that first Volt buyers will be doing work, real work, to thoroughly “earn” that $7,500. So, it would not be at all fair for anyone to say that $7500 to be a “giveaway” of any sort by any means.
How long does it take to say I only buy gas every month or two, and then I can only pack in about 2 gallons?
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:31 am)The corvette is loaded with it .
Tom
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:33 am)I don’t really think they will be crushed. More likely if something like that is to occur, disassembled to study wear patterns. Crushing is not secure enough anyway. Recycling to refurbish the parts would be more like the way to go, but not any crushing certainly.
It would be too expensive to carefully dispose of all these newly patented parts and to maintain security of some randomized sets of parts that people might even try to get access to because they were once a Volt. Factory Refurbishing would be the thing to do, and, take the Factory-Refinished parts and market them through the supply chain as “factory refurbished” for usage in the Chevy Store Parts Departments as a “shot in the arm” for their inventories.
I say:
“WASTE NOTHING”.
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:36 am)Sounds like it may be a reasonable process for planned low volume models. What does it mean for the Volt, however? Will they just move one of the models to another line when they want to ramp up to 60K? How cheap and easy is it to do this?
-31
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:38 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:40 am)The Corvette assembly line uses one line with all variations of the Vette, Z06, ZR1, covertible, and coupe. Plant tours are open to the public.
To see some of the assembly process, see the “Tour and Delivery Options” video in the Chevrolet Channel at the following link:
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/videos.html
Note, using just one shift, they produce about 35,000 Corvettes per year.
+9
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:40 am)Good morning John. Glad you’re here to add your positive perspective on the morning’s news.
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:41 am)True, if you want a $50+K Volt.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:43 am)A range of 400 miles (or more) on fuel after the battery has been depleted is what I’m hoping for; I routinely drive more than 300 miles in an average weekend when the weather is good, so the fewer times I need to stop for fuel, the better.
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:44 am)Working the “devil out of the details” for very serious justifications on behalf of policy makers is what I am addressing here, not an overly-simplified marketing aspect at all at this time.
+17
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:55 am)With apologies to Frankie Laine…….
Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’,
That crude price is swollen,
Keep them Volt’s a rollin’, Rawhide !
Don’t try to understand ‘em,
Just scrimp and save and buy ‘em.
Wishin’ my Volt was by my side.
My heart’s calculatin’,
My E-REV will be waitin’
Waiting at the end of my drive.
Move ‘em out, head ‘em up,
Head ‘em up, move ‘em on.
Move ‘em out, head ‘em up:
Rawhide !
Cut ‘em out, ride ‘em in,
Ride ‘em in, cut ‘em out,
Cut ‘em out, ride ‘em in:
Rawhide!
Hah! Hah!
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:58 am)The push for 5,000 per month here was the key to success for Prius back when it was new.
Why wouldn’t you want the same for Volt?
+3
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:07 am)Just said good morning. Didn’t necessarily disagree with your second statement.
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:07 am)Well I just hope any such “cartridge” system doesn’t cause them to accidentally put an ICE in the Volt instead of the electric motor, or a T-shaped battery in a Cadillac instead of a Volt.
join thE REVolution
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:14 am)The volts go rolling one bye one hurrah. Hurrah
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:15 am)I know. But “push” means making sure there is no settling for the status quo. If enthusiasts really want Volt to success, they must now transform to proactive supporters. Reactive blogging isn’t enough. History clearly shows the importance of pushing the automaker. Remember the “too little, too slowly” and all the money still being lost.
Don’t let the opportunity slip by.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:19 am)LOL I love it. I think a song like that would go over big with all the young whipper snappers out there.
-38
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:29 am)(click to show comment)
+4
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:32 am)I’m ready to buy my black Volt as soon as it is available.
+5
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:33 am)_______________________________________________________________
From Lyle’s Article:
“…The first Volt came off the line on March 31st…Quigley was very excited about the first pre-production Volt build, which went very well…“It’s really, really great that we’ve got this Volt in our system. It’s real. We can touch them and feel them and do our job on them,” she said. “The desire to succeed is there.”…”
———————————————–
+1 for GM’s Teri Quigley!
Bio: http://198.208.187.166/volt/people/bios/quigley.html
Click on the Volt photo at the top of Lyle’s article for a larger photo…the more I see this car, the more I like the looks of it!
Is that a photovoltaic roof I see on the Volt???
GM should make a PV Volt roof standard…the cost of PV has gone way way down and it would put the Volt high up on the “cool” scale…just the added free press buzz of “GM includes a photovoltaic roof as standard equipment on the Volt” pays for itself. Yes I know, a PV roof will not be large enough to fully charge the Volt battery but a PV roof would be excellent for cabin climate control (while the car is parked during the summer months) and the math indicates a Volt PV roof could extend the Volt’s electric driving range by ~2 miles.
_____________________________________________________________
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:38 am)The Volt is a whole new design. The first emission controlled cars of the 70s were existing designs with modified emission systems.
The first Volts for sale will be the 2011 model year. GM said they will make around 10,000 of these. They also said they will make around 60,000 of the 2012 Volt. This all makes sense to me. It seems like a typical production ramp up.
The real question is this: How many 2013 Volts will GM make? We’ve heard the battery plant has limited capacity, and this is why they didn’t do the Converj as a production model. Will GM hold production at 60,000 units per year? Or will they continue to ramp up production and add new Voltec models? To me, this is the BIG question.
+23
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:43 am)Personal note to Teri Quigley, plant manager
Hi Teri,
On behalf of myself and all the regulars here at GM-Volt.com,
Thank you, and every single one of your 1100 member team for your quality, craftsmanship and dedication to the 2011 – 2015 Chevy Volt!
We love you guys and stand behind your hard work and sense of purpose.
USA! USA! Sincerely, ALL OF US HERE AT GM-VOLT.com
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:50 am)Dan Petit said:
“Currently, I have been paying .0675%, and, of my $348 payment I just made, $333 was toward principal, leaving a $2028 balance (6 more payments) on a vehicle that still will retail for $12,000 if I can work the logistics to use all that as a down payment. (Lease buyout to be available at any time would also be motivational).”
Could you please educate all us newbies to the leasing thing on this.
Question:
1)How do you know the vehicle will retail for 12000 in 6 months. (Educated guess because it’s only 6 months from now??)
2) How does the residual value left on the vehicle at the end of the lease payments compare with this 12000$ estimated retail value.
Relative to the following statement you made=”if I can work the logistics to use all that as a down payment.”
Not sure I understand.
3) The residual value of the loan is the pre determined purchase price on the vehicle at the end of the lease. Correct??
+3
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:56 am)Typically GM plants are built to build 60 units per hour.When you build more than that , the operators spend an inordinate amount of time walking.
Surely there are not three lines in the plant. All these units are built on the same line. I don’t know what the line rate is now but if they are going to build six next week that will be approximately one per hour.
The way they would accomplish that is Buick Cad, Buick Cad space space Volt space space and the same operators will accomplish their task on the Volt. I am estimating the ratio of Buicks and Cad as well as the # of spaces.
Then assume you are going to built 20 Buicks, 20 Cads and 20 Volts per hour the spacing would be Buick, Cad, Volt repeat.That is assuming the acceleration curve has been completed on the Volt.
To get more volume, the first shift could increase to sixty, the second started and then eventually a third shift could operate. Then, if you need more, a new plant could be refurbished.
GM would try to get max volume from each plant to keep the fixed costs as low as possible.
-6
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:02 am)Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha! Your “Precious” is just a few months away from being yesterday’s technology. Get over it.
+6
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:05 am)That’s a nice sentiment which I’m sured is shared by many. +1.
+7
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:06 am)Obviously you haven’t read the test drive reports. All test drives have been done with 3 passengers (~400lbs) and I haven’t heard any negatives on performance. Aside from me, but I learned how to drive on the Autostradas of Italy, so I don’t count.
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:07 am)There is no way that GM will “refurbish” any of those parts. Too much liability. Most will be crash tested, some pried apart weld by weld, some used for training in the training centers and some possibly donated to schools. Also, vin # ! will be the first salable unit.
By the way, crushing is accomplished by plant security escorting the unit and watch it being placed in the shredder at the recycler.
+4
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:08 am)We definitely agree on this.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:09 am)The batteries should be charged before they are loaded into the car.
I wonder if the Volt will go to the dealerships without ever having gasoline in the fuel system?
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:10 am)That’s pretty good. Gave me a good laugh. And it sure as heck beats the “Volt Song”!
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:14 am)Maybe they’ve learned from hindsight?
I’ve owned one of those cars and it ran like crap. My next vehicle was one of the first EFI vehicles and it ran SOOOO much better.
+4
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:18 am)Look at is this way. At least GM designed the Volt as compared to some some other manufacturer, which will go unnamed, which just stole the body design of the Rocky Mountain Institute Hypercar and used it for its hybrid. Or was that just a design “coincidence”? LOL
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:21 am)I’ve used a “certified disposer” that crushes and then shreds large things including prototype cars. He ensures the security of the shredded material all the way to a nearby steel mill. His entire business is based on being trusted by companies, including one of the big three, to ensure the complete destruction of products.
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:21 am)I read that there are some cars, maybe now even in a museum, which were destined to be crushed but were saved by enthusiasts. I think the common currency in these rescues was, well, currency. It made for interesting reading. Do you know what I’m talking about?
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:25 am)No, the early Prius design was based on the PNGV work started by the Clinton adminstration:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNGV
+15
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:29 am)=================================
My point is that there were many many people that said there would never be a Volt built by GM, and now that is proven to be false. Can you at least agree to that?
As far as quantity? I want them to be building 10,000 per month! But they have to start with unit #1. And they said they would be on track to have a Volt ready for sale to a lucky buyer by November, 2010. As far as I can tell, it looks to me like they are going to make it, and for that I give them a lot of credit.
And for the body style change you mentioned – I had a long talk with Bob Boniface about that. The concept car was based on ideas put forth at that time. The long hood and forward placement of the front wheels was done because of how they thought the electric motor, ICE, generator, and control electronics would have to be placed. Once GM decided to actually produce the car, all the engineering and aerodynamics were done for real. And that is why the car looks like it does now.
I am sure you will be inclined to place some other nonsensical downward spin on it, but the fact is that GM did what they said they were going to do back in January, 2007 – to build an electric car with extended range capabilities.
Having driven the car, all I want to say is GREAT JOB GM VOLT TEAM!!!!
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:42 am)Haven’t read that book or comment, but I have accompanied plant protection to watch the shredding. Not saying that at some point in time there hasn’t been an abuse of a policy by some person without integrity.
+4
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:42 am)———
You mean like actually buying one ? Increasing demand is how to make this happen, rather than pushing on the supply side.
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:47 am)meanwhile some China news:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4479
The Chinese government will give $9k to purchasers of BEVs, only catch is they must be made in China.
I think this means the output of Chinese lipo factories is going to be spoken for.
Heck, they can probably build a whole long range BEV for not much more than that.
Friends, this whole thing has become unstoppable.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:51 am)Lipo batteries are shipped and stored at half charge, that prolongs their shelf life. No gasoline in the new Volts.. why?.. those few gallons are expensive, it adds up
+4
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:52 am)I hear ya, Jim ! We all know that the minute this program starts to falter, the “pragmatists” would be back in force. I don’t want to sound off till the saleable production starts, but GM and Maximum Bob have got to be feeling pretty good these days. The entire country should be proud of this huge step forward – indeed a moonshot !
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:53 am)Tex-Arl said:
Not saying that at some point in time there hasn’t been an abuse of a policy by some person without integrity.
Or with!
I don’t know any examples off the top of my head, but I understand there are a few nice collector cars around because of some of those trips to the crusher being detoured.
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:58 am)Not so, true it did motivate Toyota to invent the Prius but the US Gov kept foreigners out of that program. GM, Ford and Chrysler all came out with very high mpg diesel hybrids, but never did anything with them. Billions$$ were spent.
It scared the beejezus out of Toyota and Honda, they were afraid to be locked out of the US market and thus developed (and produced) their own tech.
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:03 am)Well said!
I’m sad to say my initial reaction was more ‘snarky’ than yours.
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:12 am)Easy, because its the first Volt off the actual production line – they probably had some competition for those seats. I’ll bet the first one for actual customer delivery might have more than one person in it as well.
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:35 am)This is just great news in general. Producing other cars on the line is very good idea since they aren’t going to be using it to capacity for Volt’s for a long time – spread those fixed costs out. Its cool to see that other car right behind the Volt.
Production tooling, the first cars are coming off the line verifying their assembly process….just great. I wish GM had a little counter on their webpage showing how many have rolled off so far – hint, hint GM.
I hope GM offers something like that, even if its just to cool the interior (like the Prius) – but I don’t see anything that looks like solar cell structure in there – just reflections of things on the ceiling that you can see in the windshield as well.
It would be interesting to see what this vehicle is painted like from the side – the mirrors appear to be two-tone (half black/half silver). That black roof does look nice…I’ve never wanted a black car (for all the drawbacks – heat and showing every speck of dust), but the Volt looks fantastic in black.
+6
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:39 am)#2
Not to worry. The opposite hand to “If we build it, they will come” is “If we come, they will build it”.
+7
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:43 am)That’s funny. I have a Mercedes E class and I’d replace it tomorrow if I could get my hands on a Volt!
MarkFLL – #1800 Want list
-18
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:47 am)(click to show comment)
+6
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:53 am)Since you’re so interested in upping GM’s production numbers–does that mean you’d buy one given the chance?
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:59 am)TexArl Hello, I lived in Arlington from 65-80 and was wondering if you might know if there has been any vehicles rolling off the lines at the GM plant there?
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:00 am)No. But considering what happened with the Corvair, it probably would have been a good idea for them to do so.
It would have been an even better idea for them to take their time to iron out the problems before they put the car on the market. Like they’re clearly doing with the Volt. But I don’t blame GM for taking extra precautions.
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:02 am)I may have the facts wrong, but wasn’t there a point between there and here when the auto market took a 40% haircut?
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:05 am)In other news…..
The EV Price wars have begun!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/06/i-miev-japanese-buyers-fl_n_526959.html
“Proud i-MiEV buyer Chitoshi Okunuki, 72, placed an advance order at a higher price in August and was thrilled at Mitsubishi’s decision Tuesday to cut the price by 620,000 yen ($6,700). That came the same day rival Nissan Motor Co. announced it will take orders for its own electric car, the Leaf.”
GO EV!!!!!!
YeeeeeeHawwwwww!!! Lets gitterdone!
+3
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:07 am)I think they should offer a few to a couple of museums. They could make some money off of them, and it’s cheap advertising.
+7
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:11 am)Well geez. I’d say the point of his comment is that the Volt exists, and the Vaporware detractors can go take a hike. It seemed like a pretty clear comment to me. Quantity of production and changes in appearance in no way bolster a “Vapor Ware” argument. GM 1, detractors 0.
+4
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:11 am)I understand. What I’m trying to say is that we can agree and we can disagree, but we can do that agreeably. Some of us get passionate at times, but you can be passionate without being angry or calling people names. Maybe if we continually recognize civil discourse it could encourage more of the same. Whenever I encounter someone that I refer to as “an angry young man,” I wonder if no one has ever been nice to him. Most of the candidates for that designation here have *some* worthwhile things to say. I’d just like to encourage them to say it more positively.
John’s point is that we have to push GM. Since we already know that many at GM read this site regularly, we can push them without yelling at them. ‘Nough said?
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:15 am)Hey that’s a gooder idear!
Lemme give my opinion on why the first builds will not be available to peeps. The first 500 or so are “Calibration builds”. From my experience on an assembly / production floor, these builds are no where close to clean or acceptable, By design they will be flawed simply because it’s never right the first few times, or few hundred times depending on the quantity of parts. If it’s right the first time? Somethings wrong IMHO. So sure, the first few hundred are going to get mushed most likely. Better mushed than get sued!
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:16 am)What happened with the Corvair? Besides making Ralph Nader world famous and killing GM’s appetite for putting advanced concepts in production vehicles, I meant to say.
Hey, I just read a great quote. “Your grandchildren will likely find it incredible–or even sinful–that you burned up a gallon of gasoline to go fetch a pack of cigarettes!”
–Paul B. MacCready Jr., Phd, aeronautical engineer and inventor
…And congratulations Volt team!
+10
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:18 am)Sorry, this comment fails on so many levels. Boy oh boy, the Vapor Ware guys need to just admit they were wrong already. GM is offering a 40 mile AER vehicle with on-board range extender. And within the approximate price range of a conventional car/SUV With NO competition from other companies offering a similar product. GM wins. And I’ve got to admit, trying to call something Vapor Ware just because you think production levels should be higher suggests that you don’t know what the term Vapor Ware means.
+8
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:21 am)Funny… I heard it.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:41 am)I would gladly pay well over the sticker price for a car they are just going to throw away just to have one of the first Volts. Maybe they can raffle or auction every 5th preproduction Volt to make even more money to put back into the factory or for Volt 2.0. What do you guys think of this?
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:44 am)I just want the day to come when I can walk into a dealer with cash in hand and buy a Volt. If GM can’t make these cars available soon they will have squandered an incredible opportunity! All other manufacturers are on the bandwagon and moving more quickly.
+8
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:55 am)Since everyone else is commenting, I will add my 2 cents.
The way I look at it, the volt is exactly what it was years ago.
What was the purpose of the Volt Concept? What was the significance of the Volt concept?
Is the significance that you had a somewhat light looking shell that had styling cues from the Camaro? Does this matter? I would argue it does not. In reality, the styling was no big deal. Especially from the rear end. If you wrapped this around a true muscle car, people would yawn.
The significance is that it had a battery/electric motor that would go 40 miles and then a generator to kick in to keep you moving. That is the only significant feature or essence of the Volt from years ago and that is exactly what they are producing.
Score: GM, +100 – VaporWare trolls or pessimists in general, 0
On top of actually producing the Volt concept as described, it looks like they will make the Nov 2010 date too.
GM, +200 – VaporWare trolls or pessimists in general, 0
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:57 am)Hey Gayler, I would have to disagree with this assessment. Other than Nissan (which was a surprise to everyone over the last 6 months), GM is way ahead of the other big auto players with an EV/EREV.
The only other big auto industry players that comes to mind with a vehicle they’ve been showing and talking about getting into “customer’s hands” next year is Toyota and Mitsubishi and that is only a couple of hundred for Toyota and small numbers for Mitsu – i.e. PR project’s (Toyota just wants to sell hybrid’s where they have a dominant marketshare). GM is going to make 10,000 Volt’s next year, other than Nissan, GM will put the rest of the big auto players to shame (cause most of those other big auto makers probably wish this EV/EREV thing would go away).
+12
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:59 am)Its been a while since I have felt a need to post anything but today two things seem to need saying on my part.
First, I think at least some of the preproduction Volts should end up in the hands of dealers as demo Volts, test drive Volts, or whatever name they get saddled with. But NOT for sale!
Second, I will be most happy to own a Volt {Chevy} built on the same line and by the same people that build the Caddy and the Lucerne.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:08 pm)lol….
I didn’t hear it but I “read” it…BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!!!
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:14 pm)Well of course silly guy/gal?
All “Concept” cars are never what they come out to be once it has been refined.
I guess that’s why it’s always a difficult decision on if a product goes to production…..or not. Maybe car mfgr’s should show concepts after refinement? JMHO, it is rather disappointing when something visual catches you but then later it’s not.
-17
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:20 pm)(click to show comment)
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:22 pm)Absolutely. This is part of quality control that need to be done. But it won’t matter for a museum.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:25 pm)You seem to have a lot of good available info. What was that price again?
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:27 pm)OMG….lol
Off topic!!!
Check this out. Remember back in the days when there were prisoner “Chain gangs” doing field manual labor and sh|t like that? Well, apparently somebody came up with a good idea to make prisoners very useful….
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20001942-54.html
Or
http://missionzero.org/categories/12-Transportation/saved_entries/5850-It-s-Friday-Prisoners-forced-to-pedal-to-watch-TV-could-we-charge-up-electric-cars-this-way-w-video-
WOW!!! Somebody give that Sheriff a raise!!!
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:29 pm)That’s why I said that was a “Gooder idear” Miss LauraM.
XOXO
+3
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:31 pm)…then you shouldn’t be buying any electric car that contains an ever evolving (and improving) LiIon battery. Yet another troll attempt debunked! Boy, today is a busy day…
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:33 pm)Excellent point! GM please send a non-crash-tested pre-production Volt to the newly established, Jeffhre’s Auto Museum. Thank You.
-6
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:41 pm)Who said I will buy? If anything I am going to lease or better yet wait. Obviously, buying 1st gen battery makes no sense. I want to see the *actual* mileage, when temp is 0F (heater on) or +100F (AC on). I want to see how capacity is affected after 1 year. I want to see the *actual* electricity cost per mile. I want to see maintenance hurdles and other issues.
None of that is confirmed yet. Risk is HUGE and I am not taking it. No rush, no hurry. I can wait.
-15
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:42 pm)(click to show comment)
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:49 pm)FTFY
See #63 for original.
+5
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:51 pm)I guess you will never buy a computer. Keep waiting, they will get better.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (12:58 pm)Have fun with this today…yawn. This would have been interesting for discussion the summer of ’06. Could have even been relevant to policy issues in ’07. Though that’s being somewhat generous, because buyers with real money on the line will be sitting down at desks and dining room tables this summer and deciding for themselves.
-11
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:02 pm)(click to show comment)
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:04 pm)LOL. Well, that’s basically it. From what I understand, they rushed it onto the market before it was ready. And that backfired–big time.
GM’s taking its time with the Volt. As frustrating as that can be at time. I can understand why. This time, they want everything to be perfect. Well, nothing’s perfect. But as perfect as possible.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:04 pm)No doubt, CJS. Joe Arpaio knows how it should be done. He’s been pioneering great ideas like this for years. I wish they’d adopt some of his strategies here in the moo-juice state. Instead of hyper-costly prisons, they could make the inmates live in igloos they built themselves, surrounded by razor-wire topped cyclone fence, and moats.
Sorry for perpetuating an OT post all, but I agree strongly with it!
-16
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:05 pm)(click to show comment)
+10
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:07 pm)You’re not a very technologically savvy troll, are you? It’s almost as if you don’t understand that the Volt genset is a backup device, and that the Volt is a pure electric car ALREADY. In fact, it is a BEV with a much more advanced battery and thermal management system than the LEAF. As a BEV it is superior in every imaginable way, right down to shaving off the excess battery capacity that 75% of people will never use. But if your idea of transportation “freedom” is a Nissan Leaf and its 50-mile leash to your garage, then you go for it. Just don’t forget to renew your AAA membership for towing.
-11
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:08 pm)(click to show comment)
-12
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:13 pm)(click to show comment)
-12
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:17 pm)(click to show comment)
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:21 pm)LOL. You might have some competition from some other museums. And GM might render it inoperable first in order to prevent copying. The same way they did with the EV1….
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:22 pm)===========================
Sorry RVD, but I could say the car will only cost $20K and you could say the car will cost $60K. But until I see a price list published by GM, everything else is just speculation………
So jeffhre is correct in his statement!
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:22 pm)Ohhhhhhhhhh. Nice. Hadn’t heard that one before.
+5
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:24 pm)Oh gawd, the misinformation today is staggering. Numerous US-made cars have in excess of 70% American components, and the remaining 30% is often from Mexico or overseas. And as of 2009, more than 80% of the Chinese car parts sold in the US are replacement parts, not manufacturer components. (http://www.smartmoney.com/Spending/Autos/Are-Chinese-Car-Parts-Safe/) . It is still possible to buy a majority “American” car… like the Volt.
-10
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:24 pm)(click to show comment)
+5
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:24 pm)What caused “troll day” at gm-volt.com today????
As much fun as it is, I think it is time for the rest of us to implement Tagamet’s rule:
PDNFTT
Where is Tag today??? And nasaman has been kind of quiet as well………
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:26 pm)Yes–they build all the large SUV type vehicles-like the Tahoe, Suburban, Escalade etc. They are one of the top rated plants in quality. They are running flat out.
By the way, they have only one production line.
-11
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:28 pm)(click to show comment)
+12
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:28 pm)Given that 75% of Americans drive less than 40 miles a day, there is no oil leash on the average day. And what will YOU do when you have need to drive more than 50 miles from your house in your Leaf? Haha. That is when your ideological purity crumbles to dust and you go pick up a car at Avis. Another troll FAIL.
-5
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:30 pm)Agreed.
However, any published price that includes the subtraction of any rebate in any form is not the actual price. Doing so shows dishonesty. Nissan published their price before the rebates. Let’s see where this goes shall we?
+5
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:33 pm)Not really.
I spent almost $3000 on my first 8088 based computer. What a piece of crap. I could have waited a few years and got one 10 times faster for $1000. I needed it to do some programming so in reality, it was worth every penny and I would do it again.
Same thing here. If you want to drive a cool electric car now it will cost you $40,000 and it will be worth every penny if thats what you want. It is similar in price to many semi-luxury cars. Really no big deal for the tens of thousands who will buy them.
There are always people who think it is too much $. Many people will not even buy a new car of any type because it is a waste of $. Good for them. But for those who do buy the Volt, it will be worth every penny.
The shady tactic is using hyperbole (obsolete intermediate overpriced technology) to describe the state-of-the-art Chevy volt.
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:34 pm)Sorry..
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:38 pm)Dude, I almost want to send homie (or lady) a post card with a 10$ Starbucks gift card saying “Good Job!”. That’s got to be the most productive / best idea for 2010!!!
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:39 pm)Occasionally I’ve seen some magazine or other get a hold of a pre-produciton whatever and use it for some kind of race project or something. It would be cool if one of the preproduction Volts wound up in some project like that rather than just be smooshed.
Oh, also electricity is cheaper than gas as they always point out. It would probably make sense to charge the batteries somewhat before they leave the battery plant and before they go into the car. I think they said something about that on the NatGeo special about the Volts they had been making on the semi-manual assembly line… but I don’t quite remember.
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:42 pm)Dag burnit nuclearboy, you know I have a limited vocab.
Going to google now…..
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:42 pm)With an anemic 4000 units until Spring 2011 a second shift is a long ways off. Sure. Go ahead and confirm the line’s set up and ready to go. But once this near-term milestone is reached this summer-why the hedge? At this point, does GM doubt 10,000 VOLTs 2010 made are salable?
Maybe we need some of that old GM swag. Build them and we’ll sell them – no messing around. And if a few of the 2010 10,000 VOLTs were hanging around in early 2011 – no harm no foul.
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:44 pm)Answer to 1.
I take meticulous care of all my vehicles. So, I already have at least two interested parties at that price. As well, here in Austin, Honda’s are really popular with the 75,000 University Students in the 30 mile range, which adds another 1,000 bucks to the high retail value in NADA, so the 12,000 dollar figure is actually low now, but correct for 6 months away.
Answer to 2.
The devil is in the details. The lease terms can be just about anywhere. Presetting all numbers so that in effect, the lease is a higher APR note for the first 12 months. The equity of the 12,000 dollars comes off of the capitalized cost of the funding, same as a down payment, but I have locked in the end buyout cost to me. Capitalization principal paid down would be net of a higher equivalent of a comparable APR, but what we are talking about here is to be able to utilize the $7,500 tax incentive, and, in my case, the $12,000 “down payment” “in and out”/”pass through retail sale to my own buyer that I bring to the table at the time my Volt arrives (and I have what, several hours to get everything coordinated for the “in and out” part of the transaction. ($7,500 and $12,000).
The goal is to have a $19,500 application of both capital and tax incentive to reduce the lease capitalization of the Volt to a very low number. Then, at any time, or a year, or whenever, convert the preset value over to a conventional auto loan with GMAC.
Essentially, at the end of the lease year or two, you might be converting about $15,000 over to a conventional loan of 5 years, for instance, at a cost of $300 a month. (Net out gasoline savings of $150 a month, and you have changed the entire dynamics of the Auto Industry, and the American economy (even if you only have a 10 percent down payment) because you have a situation where all of a sudden, tens of thousands of more people can afford Volts.
Answer to 3.)
The capitalized cost is what principal you are financing, and, if, lets say, you have a Volt for $36,000 including the extended warranty and taxes. I go for the lease of a year to get the $7,500 able to be applied (if it can work that way). That leaves 28,500 dollars needing to be capitalized if I did not have an “in and out” “pass-through” car of mine to immediately sell to my preexisting buyer who is ready with their funding to buy. Otherwise, you might have a “first payment” which is like a down payment.
If I do have that buyer ready and waiting for my current vehicle for when my Volt to comes in, and the buyer brings the $12,000 plus sales tax to the table at the same moment that my Volt comes in, then, my need for capitalization is $28,500 less $12,000, and less the sales tax on $12,000 (about $740 more saved here in Texas). So, (if it can work this way), Post Tax Incentive net cost ($7,500 from the $36,000) is $28,500. Then, less $12,740 is a capitalized cost need of only about $15,760 in this particular case. A buyout at any time would need to incorporate the capital funds acquisition costs (how much it cost the lessor to get the funding together and all their overhead in their doing all that, added back up into the figure).
The capital acquisition costs and filing fees and the lessors overhead might cost something like (in my estimation) something like $1200 just to get the capital acquired and paperwork done, then, you have to add the lease-factor (the normally higher monthly cost of the money) too.
While funding 15,760 dollars for a year (plus something like $1500 estimated), (with a balloon payment at the end) this way might use up something like $2500 of the value of the $7500 tax incentive net of the interest you would pay in that year for conventional financing, I still think it would be an outstanding net savings of that $5,000, since we are talking about a higher total value of the Volt in the first place.
If GMAC were to run those leases, then it would benefit the GM affiliates as well.
+8
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:44 pm)I don’t get this idea of “freedom” associated with an automobile. Bottom line, you need a gas station, or you need an electric outlet. One or the other.
The point is to use whichever is the most convenient in everyday life. And, to me, the Volt gives you the best of both world.
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:50 pm)OK, I getit…
“hyperbole “:
n.
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hyperbole
Well, I learn something new almost every day.
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:51 pm)Easy. One to steer the car, and 3 to swing the very large golf club!
Ta-dump. Thank you, thank you, I’ll be here all evening. Remember to tip your waitress.
+3
Apr 9th, 2010 (1:55 pm)If you know history, the Corvair was considered “Unsafe at Any Speed” by Ralph Nader. This was during the heyday of wanting to destroy anything made in America. GM made a disastrous
decision and hired a investigation of Nader. The Federal Government later stated the the Corvair had an equivalent accident rate as the competition. Of course, it was too late. Having ridden in the Monza, it was hot and I loved it.
This was during the time that NBC paid to have the C-Ring that holds the axle in – removed and the vehicle driven in a parking lot to get their film of the “Sorry” vehicles GM makes.
Further, NBC paid to have a Chevy pickup with “Saddle Tanks” wired with incinderary devices and filmed in a staged accident. GM found the pickup and sued NBC. NBC paid a large amount and apoligized on TV. Of course the damage was done and American manufaturing headed off shore.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (2:05 pm)I would be willing to bet the occupants are
+Plant manager
+Chairman of the Shop Committee
+Production Supt.
+Driver to roll test.
Someone asked “Would they fuel the Volt?”. Certainly–how else would you run the engine to verify quality?
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (2:10 pm)==========================
I am just as guilty………..
Apr 9th, 2010 (2:17 pm)It’s a great analogy. I spent $6k on my first computer, which would be like $12k in today’s money.
And I compared Volt battery costs to the Apple Lisa memory costs some post a year or so, ago. I have an Apple Lisa (2/10), as well. That was a little cheaper than the original Lisa which cost ~$10k when new (~$20k in today’s dollars!), which was more than many new cars cost at the time (still true today)! The multiprocessor J and K series HP workstations I used to work on cost $50k or $60k (for the K series, they’d go up much higher than that) about 15 years ago and those have all been supplanted by $2k linux systems, now, which are more powerful. Go back a decade or two farther than that and the costs for computers were truly astronomical, in the millions.
The only difference I see in the analogy is the time axis, thanks to Moore’s law (more like Moore’s self-fulling-prophecy).
Oh, I found my Lisa posts:
Apr 9th, 2010 (2:19 pm)I am not sure I understand but are you saying you are going to put 12K down on a lease?
That is not a good idea. As an insurance agent (for the last 29 years) let me explain why it is always best to put as little down on a lease as you can. The lease company owns the car not you. You must name them as addational insured and regestered owner on your insurance policy. The insurance company must pay the lease company not you.
Lets look at what happens if someone steals the car or it is totaled. Your insurance company will make an offer to settle to the owner of the car (the lease company) they will most likely take the offer and that will be it. You will not get a refund of any money for your unused lease. So if the car is totaled 1 year after you get it, you will have paid $12,000 down + what ever the monthly lease payments are $350 or $16,200 to drive the car for one year.
I hope this helps.
+3
Apr 9th, 2010 (2:19 pm)Well, there are lots of things that I might want to say, but I will keep this down a little. First, I have not read today’s positings yet. I AM very pleased about the mention of plant tours (I am one who has made inquiries on behalf of myself and anyone here). I am also surprized that there is not a dedicated line for Volts. This makes me very curious about how you can “go slow” to test the assembly process without slowing down the line and affecting the Caddies and the Lucerne’s.
But on a personal note, the last six weekends I have been making trips to Ohio because my 93 year old Dad had a heart attack and this called for greatly increased time and attention. He left this world Thursday morning (and I hope that he is in a better world). So, one more of these trips will be made this weekend before the pattern of life returns to normal. This pattern has caused me to have a minimal participation on the weekends and then tend to make up for it during the week. But then who knows what is normal any more? I AM thankful for this group, and while it is not quite as personal as some traditional friendships, I truly do feel a personal kinship with the folks here. Thanks to Lyle and to all of you.
Apr 9th, 2010 (2:23 pm)Pleas by Volt. Volt is good car produk for amercan people. It’s better than nissan. Gas will still be good for you and you need for car it. Car has good use of gas and hi miles on gallon, much better car.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (2:26 pm)I am very sorry about your loss. It is never easy to lose your dad.
Apr 9th, 2010 (2:33 pm)Thanks for this info Tex-Arl – it allows the rest of us to gain some insight into this world I just do not know.
Apr 9th, 2010 (2:45 pm)WOW the more I think about this the lease company would make out even better. They would get the $7,500 government welfare ck plus your $ 12,000 plus your monthly payments plus the $ 30,000 the insurance company would pay if the vehicle is totaled. Great deal if your the lease company. All that money would go to the lease company you could try to get some back from them, good luck with that.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (3:03 pm)Sorry about your Dad.
Best
-6
Apr 9th, 2010 (3:15 pm)The freedom from oil…
The freedom from sand lands dependency…
It’s what everyone here has always wanted to be, free from the above yet the product and the company ensures you will continue to be dependent. I would restrain if they came out and said they would eventually increase the battery range and decrease the internal cumbustion dependency, but that is NOT the case as indicated in the link I provided from this forum.
Many times you or others post that “if your out of charge, you just simply use gas….” or “you don’t need to charge everyday, you can forget and you keep going….”. That’s the mental dissoultion to “range anxiety” which IS your cord to the source you wish to disconnect. Continuing to advertise as stated means you will stay addicted and dependent. Therfore independence is what this product will not offer by design.
-6
Apr 9th, 2010 (3:30 pm)You’re assuming a single vehicle household. We all know the more than average cars a houshold has and it 2 or more. Whathappens to the Volt past 40 miles? It burns gas. What happens to a 100 mile range EV after 40 miles? You still use electrons. After 50 miles? you still use electrons, the Volt starts to pollute and out comes your cord to the sand lands.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (3:41 pm)“It’s real. We can touch them and feel them and do our job on them,..”
This is the best quote I have seen so far from Voltdom. If it’s a personal thing to the builders you get a better product.
(Sparrow: Voltdom ain’t on that google thinger. I just made it up. hahahahahah! Oh wait. It is now. Voltdom – the land where Volts are built.)
+3
Apr 9th, 2010 (3:42 pm)How much oil will a Leaf use after 70 to 100 miles when it is on the back of a tow truck?
Example
Lets see 10 miles for the tow truck to get to dead leaf and 70 miles home thats 80 miles at about 6 MPG so about 13 gal of gas for leaf.
So that won’t work!
And how is useing a 2nd car (ICE) for long trips better then useing a Volt for all driving?
Apr 9th, 2010 (3:46 pm)Given the amount of time I’ve spent in auto plants, I’m a bit embarrassed to not understand the “walking” comment. Perhaps it is because the lines are a bit different that what I’ve seen.
I’ve been in Ford and Chrysler auto plants, where they made only one type of car on each line. The lines perhaps were a bit more automated than one where the lines made multiple types of cars. This was also 15-20 years ago so things certainly have changed a bit.
I’ve also been inside Freightliner and PACCAR plants. In those the line started and stopped with the trucks stationary at each station. They moved a well under 60 units an hour. Particularly with Frieghtliner, each truck was different with the orders all mixed up… I.E. trucking company A’s units, then B’s, then a one off, back to A and so on.
Is it that the lines don’t stop in between and operators have to keep up?
-6
Apr 9th, 2010 (3:47 pm)Comparing car to a computer is ridiculous. Cars do not follow Moore’s Law. Cars are not $500 items. We do not upgrade cars every 2 years.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (3:50 pm)After 50 miles, you’re past the point of no return. Ya can’t get back to your charging station. Unless you drive in circles just like you talk?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
(Sorry guys. pdnftt. I know.)
I once had a manager that couldn’t spell anonymous either. He made me put an alias in the system that he could remember. True story.
-12
Apr 9th, 2010 (3:54 pm)(click to show comment)
Apr 9th, 2010 (3:59 pm)Interesting. I wonder if the car starts out at 50% charge, what would it be once it goes across the country?
The biggest obstacle to doing that would be the inability to do a final systems test that included firing up the ICE.
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:03 pm)The Volt is a computer on wheels. Heck, it’s an entire computer farm on wheels. And, lots of people upgrade their cars every 2-3 years. Where in trolldom is this stuff coming from?
(Sparrow: Trolldom ain’t on that google thinger either!)
Edit: Oh crap. It *IS* on that google thinger. http://www.trollforest.com/
-10
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:04 pm)(click to show comment)
-8
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:10 pm)Well, once the conversation resorts to pointing out minuscule typographical errors…….then it’s like a childish name calling. No logic here.
+3
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:12 pm)No car is ever built exactly the same as the concept that was first presented. The Volt is no exception, the reasons why they had to tweak the concept were well documented over time. So what is YOUR point ?
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:13 pm)=============================
I am truly sorry to hear about your dad. The loss never goes away completely, but the good memories will soon make you feel better. I wish you and you family well.
Jim
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:14 pm)So, Volts come with 4 people?
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:15 pm)The 70′s cars are a result of regulation. The auto makers were forced by emission regulations to produce cars that required far more complexity than the state of the art was capable of doing reliably. Once computing power capable of operating the fuel & ignition systems, cars vastly improved.
I don’t think anyone made a car from 1973-1983 that was graceful to drive from cold start to steady state operation. Certainly not any one that I’m familiar with.
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:17 pm)43%, but who’s quibbling of a few percent
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:18 pm)Wow. Great Trolls showing today !
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:25 pm)Must be. So far, I haven’t seen one with less than four in it in any of the videos. Probably make it easier to get away with driving in the HOV lane.
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:37 pm)lol
Think they Photoshopped the Flintstone feet away?
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:41 pm)Lemming see. What did they mean by that?
I can see the critical part. The thinking, not so much.
(crap. now they’re talking to each other. i’m outofa job.)
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:44 pm)When an operator walks to a car, he is carrying parts, tools, screws etc. He can place only so many parts in his (her) hands effectively. If possible, you should not design that job so that the parts have to be disposed of because then you have to pick them back up. So that is non productive work. Also if possible, only one walking trip should be made per unit.
This sounds very cut and dried but it is a goal. Years ago, some studies indicated that this was optimised at around 60 units per hour.
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:45 pm)HI Laura,
You always have great ideas!
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:55 pm)They also have a habit of being hacked on by engineers who want to try out ideas for the next version. Since they are going to be destroyed anyway, they are economically a good testbed vs. dedicated a sell-able unit later.
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:56 pm)Re #159–Forgot to say that the line moves all the time if on a chain. If it is a guided vehicle line, the guided vehicle can be programmed to stop.
An operation will form a triangle on a moving line.To the unit, along with the unit, and back to home to repeat.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:57 pm)I’m so sorry to hear about the loss of your dad. Six weeks is quite an ordeal. My heartfelt thoughts to you.
Apr 9th, 2010 (4:58 pm)Huge… big time huge.
I was hopeful for the Volt when it started but I was a bit scared that it wouldn’t.
GM doesn’t go this far and then quit without at least trying to sell them. November is a long wait, but at this point it is going to happen.
Apr 9th, 2010 (5:00 pm)He may not get it….
Apr 9th, 2010 (5:11 pm)My take? The first car off the line means this program is real…
There are the naysayers, and their prognostications are shown to be wrong.
There are the Japanese car fanboys, and they are realizing that Tokyo is following, not leading for the first time in two decades. It isn’t a pleasant place for them to be and they are lashing out.
There are the BEV purists who resent that the Volt has an ICE.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (5:25 pm)My second vehicle is a F350 diesel. It gets 17 MPG. I try to limit the amount that I drive it to when I’m hauling something bigger than a car can handle.
If I have a Volt, when I road trip I will still get… well we have to wait for that part to know what the exact MPG is…. but it is WAY better than 17 MPG. I’m sure at least double if not tripple.
If I had a Leaf, I would be stuck with 17 MPG if any time I had to go more than 45 miles from home
Apr 9th, 2010 (5:32 pm)“Thinking out of the Box” to make an entirely new type of Leasing
product. That is what lawyers (on your side and my side) are for, so that somehow, that $7,500 can be
brought to bear no matter what happens.
Yes, historically, leases are not a good idea. But that does not mean you can never change the terms. Nearly all the terms.
You have this great new car called the Volt.
If any Insurance Company or Lease Company is not “asleep at the [Volt] switch”, they will pick up a sharpened pencil and get to do some new things (such as ***THINK***) of new ways they can do business and make a better LEASE product. Otherwise, we’ll just wait til the price comes down, and do business with our local credit union. Then, any intellectually-disinterested lease companies lose an excellent opportunity as they should.
My whole position on all of this in this thread is to stimulate lease companies to think about new sorts of lease products. Maybe GMAC will do this, to make some sort of transitional lease product. It would be crazy for them to not work to produce attractive lease products.
I always have to make new curriculum products for shops. All “hard to fix” problems that come into any of the 190 shops I’ve already taught become **my** problem also to diagnose. From many of those, come my new curricula.
Too many times in America, is this implicitness that intellectual workmanship is a bad thing to have to do, and, we should all just “veg out”, and leave all the creative problem solving to someone else. (To our ultimate loss of jobs, that no administration can ever cure without technical training with a properly motivated populace).
Again, my posts today are a call to Leasing companies to examine closely what Nissan has done.
But, do it far, far better, so that they can immediately capture this future market to offer an attractive option for buyers of EV’s and EREV’s. This is especially if there is a way to formulate that $7,500 incentive, and do it in an “open development” manner just as GM has done with the Volt, so that the lessor knows exactly what he or she is or is not getting within the terms.
They only have a two year window to make a product that will help us get into our Volts. (Then adapt after they have made their money and experienced all the lessons they have learned about electrified vehicles).
Apr 9th, 2010 (5:32 pm)Thanks for both parts of the explanation.
The Freightliner plant used a chain, but it started and stopped, moving each vehicle up to the next assembly station and waiting until they were all ready before going on.
ps… why the down votes? (I’m not implying that you were the one doing them Tex)
Apr 9th, 2010 (5:33 pm)Trolls are rare, entertaining and probably serve an important purpose.
Sincere criticism can be a very important resource for fine-tuning a product or service.
Trolls seem to occupy less than 5% of the space of this site.
If true that would mean fans seem to occupy 95% or more.
If GM can get this kind of support in the general population,
VOLT will be the most successful car in history.
GO VOLT!
Apr 9th, 2010 (5:41 pm)P.S. to my above post.
Change “lessor” in the fourth to last line to “lessee”.
Apr 9th, 2010 (5:42 pm)How true, and a great way to say it. +1
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (5:49 pm)In my experience, there are many more GM trolls in the general population. Bashing GM is as much fun as bashing big oil and Walmart for some.
GM already had an image problem going into the car-pocalypse and I think the bailout has turned even more people against them. Hopefully there are some others who are reconsidering their Japanese purchases to balance this out.
I for one have spent my lifetime trying to support GM and will not stop now.
Apr 9th, 2010 (5:52 pm)Hi Old Man. Great to hear from you, and great comment.
Apr 9th, 2010 (5:54 pm)Ha!!
I see what you mean, Starcast. But I think you underestimate competition and fairness when there is something that can make lease companies attempt to compete in a different way than they ever did before. If they can’t see a very highly lucrative and fair-to-the-lessee opportunity here, then, I think that you are correct, they need to just not bother. We’ll just wait for our Credit Union OK on a Volt when we are ready.
Apr 9th, 2010 (6:00 pm)That completely misses the leaf operating paradyme. At present the Leaf will only be sold in areas with plans and funding for an operational charging infrastructure. Combined with GPS and touchscreen maps, folks will know when and where they can go beyond 45 miles.
+3
Apr 9th, 2010 (6:03 pm)The problem with your logic is that it is divorced from reality.
Basically you are arguing that you only need the limited range of the electrics and you can balance your life around this range. If you use any oil, you have a problem with your logic.
Its all a matter of degree. I would say that your Nissan leaf is an oil and energy wasting product. Much oil is used to build and deliver these things. If you want to get off of oil, just stop driving. Balance your life around that. Problem solved. Now you are truly using no oil.
If you buy a leaf or other electric vehicle, you are using oil and other valuable resources. A real purist would walk on wooden shoes and not complain.
By the way, you will not run out of battery power when walking. There are many fast recharge stations (McDonalds) all along your path.
In the real world where most of us live, people will buy cars that can do what they need to do. Most will not put up with the Leaf and its limitations so they will be forced to get a gasser. The best choice they have for saving gas will be the triple digit mpg Volt.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (6:11 pm)I’ve been wondering what the big deal has been about the tank size. Many times we have heard it is being sized for 300 miles and they had to build 80 pre-production cars and drive them a million miles to figure that out. I mean its only a gas tank, whats it matter if it is a little oversize? Then your comment made me think that this all came from upper management as a directive to the engineers. “Don’t make it over 300 miles because it will compete more directly with our standard ICE cars!” So the engineers want to make it as close as possible without going over the limit. The problem is that if it does really well in CS mode, many people who couldn’t care a rats ass about emissions or oil imports would just buy it because they liked it, and probably not even bother to plug it in. If GM is loosing money on it then they would at least like to limit the market to “greenies”.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (6:17 pm)How about a whole bunch of electric race cars?
Apr 9th, 2010 (6:18 pm)Perhaps a good point rhetorically, but not an answer to the question. If the Volt has been leap frogged then you’re talking about price. If we’re not talking about price then we should be talking about self flying nuclear powered cars.
If the Volt can beat EV’s in it’s class based on price then you have a point. Without price, rather than stopping at the Moore’ Law digression, you may as well be debating the thorium content of the moons of the Alpha Centauri System in the furture of Chinese electricity generation.
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:02 pm)What may work out well for GM regarding the Volt is that many of the anti-bailout folks wouldn’t have bought any form of an electric vehicle anyway.
Some of the right wingers (myself included) want the electric car for energy independence / national security reasons. But were weird & rare.
Far greater in number are those who want the Volt for environmental reasons. And fortunately for GM, those folks are much less angry over the whole bailout.
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:06 pm)Thanks for making my point even stronger.
There is Volt infrastructure in my neighborhood now. It is called my garage and my place of employment. They are 27 miles apart and I can do my daily trips without using a drop of gasoline. The moment I can buy the car, it is ready to serve me.
I’m 105 miles from one of the places where the LEAF is going to get infrastructure. I’m sure it’s going to expand, but at this time the charging stations are farther away than the range of the LEAF.
So we have maybe someday vs. a real solution with the Volt.
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:17 pm)Got to get out from under the bridge today…
http://www.speedace.info/electric_cars.htm
Now, about that lease.
The Beauty of a Volt…
American Leadership
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:18 pm)So the leaf will only be limited appeal because of the range limitation ? It will only be availible to areas where electrical power can be had ? When will the whole country be right for the Leaf ?
Not all people live in Metro area’s, some of us live in rural area’s where a potential drive of 200 miles is not uncommon. When will I be comfortable with the Leaf without having a gasoline car to back it up ?
+8
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:19 pm)My deepest condolences John.
We are indeed a family here.
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:21 pm)Your comments are always well thought out and clearly stated. But this time I’m not sure which of the above paragraphs is offered to support your underlying premise. The 1st paragraph would lead me to think the Leaf serves you well and there is no point to the Volt range extender.
The 2nd paragraph leads me to think the Volt would be your only choice, which leaves the Leaf not quite ready for the consumers waiting hands. So uh, which one is right?
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:27 pm)I am very sorry to hear this news. My Dad died at a similar age in 2001. If you are like me, you will never entirely get over it — fathers are forever — and in fact it will affect you more and longer than you think it will. The other side is that, as Jim said above, over time the pain diminishes and you enjoy even more your memories of the good times.
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:28 pm)About the same time the Ford Focus EV gets 400 miles to a charge and is 80% recharged in 20 minutes. Or a next generation Hummer is seen as the perfect vehicle…for New Yorkers.
Apr 9th, 2010 (7:29 pm)For my typical daily drive, either the Volt or LEAF would work well.
On days with a little extra, the LEAF would be superior from the perspective that it would still be gasoline free.
On days with a lot extra, the LEAF would not serve me. The nearest charging station _to be installed at a future date_ will be 105 miles away, beyond the car’s range. The Volt would do just fine – other than burning some gasoline.
With a LEAF, I’d be relegated to running my diesel burner vs. just driving there in a much more efficient Volt.
+3
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:23 pm)Lyle… I wonder if we can have a counter set up to reflect the number of Volts made?
I think it would be interesting to know how many miles are on the Volts?
Thanks for all the good posts about the Chevrolet Volt progress … this is history in the making.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:25 pm)Real sorry to hear that, JohnK… May I offer my sincere condolences.
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:27 pm)I cannot read your body language, is your answer never ?
+4
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:36 pm)You can be the guy that gets GM to tell him exactly how many Volts have been built everyday. Good Luck. =)
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:39 pm)Lyle, it’s always a little surreal to see you post down here in the “peanut gallery.” LOL! However I like it when e-journalists follow up with their readers, so thanks for checking in.
Oh, and I agree, they’re not gonna give up that information anytime soon … hehheh. Though it would be cool to “virtually” see the Volts comin’ off the line one by one.
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:42 pm)I’m very sorry about your loss! It’s times like this when words just can’t express just *how* sorry. I haven’t read past your post yet, but I know others here will have already shared their grief too. When any of us here has a loss, we all feel it. I’ll continue to pray for you and your family, as I know others here will. In tough times, I’m sure that your immediate family members can draw support from each other, and you know that your extended family *here* is pulling for you, too.
As hard as things get sometimes, I do know that everything is happening according to His Plan and that in the end, it will be ok.
God Bless you and yours,
Tagamet
The mountain tops are glorious;
But it’s in the valleys I grow.
-Jane Eggleston
+6
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:48 pm)Ahmadinejad: Iran has ‘fully mastered’ nuclear technology
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/04/09/iran.nuclear/index.html?hpt=T2
As he spoke, a crowd chanted “God is great” and “Death to America.”
World’s largest oil exporters:
Country …………………….. millions of barrels per day
Saudi Arabia ……………… 8.65
Russia ……………………….. 6.57
Norway ……………………… 2.54
Iran ……………………… 2.52
United Arab Emirates . 2.52
Venezuela …………………. 2.2
It’s not that hard to connect the dots. Foreign oil will kill us…
+4
Apr 9th, 2010 (8:52 pm)I’ve been watching all the troll feeding, and I’m coming out with a new food line – Troll Watchers. If we can’t lose the trolls, at least maybe we can shrink them….
Be well,
Tagamet
Apr 9th, 2010 (9:23 pm)I found that very curious too. It makes no sense for your comment to garner -1′s.
I voted you up one.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:05 pm)Didn’t you know that each seat has pedals hooked up to the generator? Only with 4 people pedaling can you get 230 Miles Per Gallon (of coffee).
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:11 pm)I’m very sorry for your loss. Please allow me to reflect some gratitude back to you.
An elder statesman in my office passed away in the latter half of last year. George was 88 years young and a bomber pilot during WWII. He was a man of notable integrity, standing out from an era enrobed in it. He led a proud, productive, and full life throughout. I miss my friend and mentor. It is good to remember. Thus, I thank you for bringing a saddened smile to me as I read your comment.
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:12 pm)Some Negative Nancies on here amongst all the Positive Pollies.
Glad to see the Volt coming to life, myself.
You know, there were quite a few drawbacks to the first iPhone too! One of which was the price!! Today, I own one. They fixed what I had issues with, including price, and I love it! It’s the first generation. If it was easy to make these, they’d have been made already!!
Perhaps Volt 3.0 will win over the general public much like the 3GS.
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:13 pm)The Museum of Modern Art in NYC – which has objects of modern design already in its collection, and the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC would be two excellent museums to receive a 2011 Chevy Volt.
-10
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:15 pm)(click to show comment)
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:20 pm)John, I’ve been gone all day and am just catching up. I got as far as your post #132 and I can’t wait until I read the next 70 posts before replying. So I will probably repeat what has already been written by others, sorry.
First of all, my sympathy on the passing of your father. We pray for peace and strength for you and your family. At age 93 you have had a great number of years together. I’m sure you have many fond memories, cherish them.
Second, there are a great number of folks here that know exactly what you mean by, “feel a personal kinship with the folks here.” Many days I feel ours are “as personal as [any] traditional friendships.” Last month my wife and I had dinner with Tag and his wife in PA, just because. Our only connection prior to that was on this site. I call that friendship.
Third, don’t try to read the rest of the posts today, you don’t need the hassle.
Hang in there, and remember, we’re here for you man!
-8
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:21 pm)Your a hack and alarmist. Nothing could be further from the truth. Oil is the lifeblood of our economy and has been for 100 years and will be for another 100 years at least.
Your sound like an old demented kook.
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:32 pm)Quigley told the reporter she is seeing intense interest in the plant and demand for tours.
“I’m expecting that we will have all different kinds of visits,” she said. “I think it will be five times as many people as normal at the onset.”
“all different kinds of visits”, Japanese, German, Chinese, Korean ….
I think it would be in GM’s best interest to disallow ANY tours for at least a year!
As I understand it Hamtramck has 4 production lines, 3 of which will be active with Volt, Cadillac DTS and Buick Lucerne. The statement “the Volt, which won’t have its own separate assembly line” doesn’t make sense. I thought flexible assembly lines were limited to variations in one model or similar models. It would make more sense to me that workers could be assigned to whichever assembly line was needed at the moment. 60,000 cars on one assembly line is about 1 car every 2 minutes for a single shift.
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:32 pm)By design the Volt will end up after a long trip at the 25% charge point, thats the whole point of the genset.
I am sure the final test will be to suck out all the un-needed gasoline.
-8
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:32 pm)If it takes GM this long to crank out a few thousand Volts by the end of the year Nissan will bury them with 500,000 LEAFS that they will be unleashing soon. Since almost no new technology is in the Volt why does it take GM almost four(4) freggin years to get production line going ??? Nissan, Ford, VW, Mercedes, BMW and other are getting their EVs out the door in much less time and much higher quality (well better quality is expected anyways). A lot of potential sales have been lost by letting the comp catch up. After 80 billion dollars of taxpayer bailout money GM is still losing money (4+ billion since exiting bankruptcy). This is a failed and still failing company. Also they are cooking their books to try and show a profit this year. SMOKE AND MIRRORS ! Put them all behind bars…its called FRAUD and its AGAINST THE LAW !!!
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:33 pm)Jeez, the Volt/Prius comparisons just don’t stop do they! You got to put the hose down and step away from the pump. Next week you’re going to pumping the gas I’m going to use in a year with a Volt. Go get a ticket and stand in line for the Volt plant tour. Watch the future of driving in the US being built.
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:34 pm)I think that’s fixed.
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:46 pm)what planet are YOU living on ?
+1
Apr 9th, 2010 (10:50 pm)We have to remember we have GM to thank for the concept that we need to own an automobile to have “freedom” – freedom to move about the country ( Sorry Soutwestern Airlines ), freedom to go when we want, where we want. Remember, it was the very real conspiracy of GM, Phillips Petroleum and Firestone tires to get Americans out of electric streetcars, then diesel buses and into good ol’ GM cars and trucks to find our “freedom”.
Laura is 100% right that this freedom has come at great costs. Costs to national security, costs of countless lives in wars and international policing, costs of breathing fresh air not laced with carbon monoxide, probably costs of global warming and personal expenses of credit and loss, not to mention the thousands each year who lose their life to an automobile accident. So true, I wouldn’t call this real “freedom”.
Three quarters of a century later we are here – there is no going back, the infrastructure is in place and the total human mindset is one of mobility and a freedom to move about at our leisure when we want. Our homes our designed around this fact of living as are our towns – and even our nation. Since this is mere fact of life, we have for our generation, this epic chance to turn wrongs into major rights. The Volt is such a right. The Volt gives everyone the ability to be free from oil and also free to travel to the coasts and back if one so wishes. The ironies are staggering, being that GM masterminded our dependency on the automobile in the first place, then showed us in the nineties it could make them ( EV – 1 ) non-dependent on oil, yet crushed them in front of our very eyes.
People agreed with one another today that my mantra, ” IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME” re: GM + Volt, was flawed in that it should be: ” IF WE COME, THEY WILL BUILD IT”.**** I wholeheartedly disagree. **** My point behind the line is that GM has piled tons of resources into proving to Americans and the world that it can redeem itself while making the world more free from all of the above – now they have to put that where their mouths are, and just build them in volumes and let us buy them. And WE WILL BUY THEM.
It’s a NIKE, ” JUST DO IT ” call to order. Business success revolves around bold moves. We who have watched history long to see freedom from cars and trucks that brought us more into slavery than we’d like to admit ( except when we pay our car payments each month ). If we are going to have cars, why not have ones that get us closer to those perennial promises of freedom car companies have served us up in TV commercials for decades? Remember the running wild mustangs for Mustang and the “See the USA in your Chevrolet” campaigns?
Roll back that DVD “Who Killed The Electric Car” to the part where people gathered in front of GM offices in California where EV-1s were held waiting to be crushed, and held up a giant check for millions of dollars to purchase the cars right then and there. So now can you understand why just HAVING THE MONEY IN HAND AND WANTING TO BUY A VOLT WILL NOT INSURE IT IS BUILT IN NUMBERS?
Here at this link is evidence that ” If we buy them, they will build them” is not the mantra we need to collectively chant: http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=815
So today there is due cause to be hopeful and optimistic GM will reverse this legacy of selling us freedom yet SELLING US OUT into bondage. If they do, it will be a GREAT DAY for them, and a step closer to realized freedom for us.
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME.
+2
Apr 9th, 2010 (11:45 pm)It is called “Earth.”
Apr 10th, 2010 (12:11 am)I fully agree with you that it is bad for the customer to pay a large amount up front when leasing. I’m not sure the $7,500 part is bad for the customer. In the first place, as Nissan has demonstrated, that can be applied to reduce my monthly payments. In the second place, if (heaven forbid) I were to total my Volt early in the lease, I won’t have done much to reduce use of oil, so I don’t deserve to get much of the $7,500 credit. The leasing company, on the other hand, has plunked down one big chunk of change up front in an attempt (admittedly financially motivated) to move us toward an EV future, so they do deserve the credit.
Apr 10th, 2010 (1:08 am)For my point of view you can take the above fairly literally. When the technology exists to make either of the above seem reasonable, a Leaf like car will make sense for rural needs. I’m really not good at reading tea leaves so I can’t give time frames too well, but as a performance measure, if powertrains are developed that are efficient enough to make Hummer trucks make sense in Manhatan, vs abundant transit solutions, or if EV’s get about three times their current range at a reasonable price compared to an ICE, then vehicles with the efficiency of EV’s and the versatility of big trucks and SUV’s become possible for people who need more range and or capacity.
Or if batteries get cheaper, lighter and more durable this charge system becomes commonplace…
The direction this leads to is unknown. The solutions are unknown, (except to a gentleman who frequented this site named Michael Robinson). We will see EREVs, and EVs, smarter grids, and cleaner electricity generation. How is still up in the air. And as now, no one vehicle will fit everyones needs then either. So that’s my body language, leaning over a broken crystal ball
Apr 10th, 2010 (1:31 am)Looks like a dead link at 215, I thought I had fixed that.
Apr 10th, 2010 (1:45 am)The latest specs posted by GM (2010-03-28) list two ranges, an “EV range” and an “Extended range”. The cautionary part of this is the EV range, which they state is “up to 40 (based on EPA city cycle) actual mileage may vary depending on driving habits/conditions, weather and battery age.”
GM has been saying “up to 40″ all along, so that didn’t surprise me, but I was a bit dismayed by the “battery age” qualifier, since I had bought into the theory that they would start at 50% discharge range and increase it with battery age to maintain the driving range. I’m also thinking a bit more about the “city” qualifier, since I suspect that regen in city driving may result in smaller start/stop losses than the wind resistance losses at freeway speeds. i.e. I suspect city mileage in EV mode may be better than freeway mileage.
Net of these factors: Don’t count on 40 miles EV mode on the freeway.
Now for the good news part. I am sure they mean the “Extended range” to be after the battery is depleted, and they state that to be “300 miles on a full tank of gasoline”. So freeway range (at least starting from home) will be more than 300 miles. They do not say the Volt has an 8 gallon fuel tank; that size is “TBD”. So they are not telling us anything at all about mileage in CS mode. It might be 50 MPG, though I think it will be less than that, and it could be even more. What they clearly seem to be saying is that once they know the CS mode mileage they are going to size the gas tank to give a 300 mile range.
I know there are strong advocates here for going 500 miles on a tank of gas. I’m not one of them. If I’m going to travel 500 miles in a day, I’m going to stop several times during the trip. Furthermore, for safety’s sake, I’m going to be hoping that the people I share the road with will also take a break every few hours. 300 miles at 75 MPH is four hours. That’s not too often to stop for gas.
“But,” the argument goes, “why not have a bigger tank? You can fill it every 300 miles if you want to, and I don’t have to. That way we’re both happy.” Sorry, I won’t be happy. In addition to my safety concern above about your driving, the truth is that if I’m on a long trip I’ve probably got a lot of luggage. I don’t want to be forced to carry several extra empty gallon jugs in my trunk just so you can have your dream range. (Not literally empty jugs, of course, but GM would have to raise the bottom of the trunk space up to allow for the oversized tank.)
Come to think of it, if you want extra range, why don’t you really carry extra gas cans in the back. Now we can all be happy.
Apr 10th, 2010 (2:14 am)In addition to the excellent points above that I agree with about gasoline range, remember that one of the goals of the Volt is to not use gas often. That means stale gas is certainly a concern.
More gallons of gasoline means that the time any one gallon spends in the tank is longer. A small tank will cycle the gasoline through quicker.
+3
Apr 10th, 2010 (7:30 am)I’m a little late to the thread, but I just wanted to add my condolences. I’m never sure how to identify with another person’s pain…but sometimes it is just best to say that I am sorry for your loss and mean it.
/No matter the age, your dad is still your dad. Sorry my friend.
-2
Apr 10th, 2010 (7:56 am)Until November tours are by invitation only. After November tours will be open to schools, enthusiasts, auto media etc.
I am surprised that there will be any tours. After November we will be able to see how a line designed to produce a car every 2 minutes takes 1/2 hour. Are the assemblers paid to work 2 minutes, and then stand around for 28 minutes while an engineer inspects their work? I don’t really believe that, I think they will build Volts for 2 days per month with the workers spending the rest of the month on the DTS and Lucerne lines. This being the case maybe they will allow tours only on those 2 days per month so people can actually see Volts being built.
+1
Apr 10th, 2010 (7:58 am)I want to off my heartfelt thanks to everyone on behalf of your condolences regarding the loss of my dad. I wasn’t sure about mentioning personal off topic things – it was more to explain what some might see as very uneven interest in current Volt events. But your sentiments are most appreciated and it DOES seem that this group has evolved into a real extended family (and I sure would like to meet some of you wonderful people in the flesh). As Koz said, he had a very productive life (also a veteran of WWII), and drew people together, even more intensely in the last six weeks. Thanks to Starcast, Tex_arl, Jim I, DaveP, Lyle, RB, Mike-O-Matic, Tagamet, Koz, Michael and to those that just read and don’t post. BTW, the Volt drives were right in the middle of this and I can’t tell you what a comforting diversion that was. I submitted an entry that was short, and “not as complete” as I wanted, but every time I read it it choked me up with emotion so I sent it in as it was. But frankly, the stories that were written were as good as being there. Thanks so much guys (and gals) for EVERYTHING.
Apr 10th, 2010 (8:02 am)Statik, our posts crossed otherwise I would have mentioned you in my post of thanks. Thanks, man.
Apr 10th, 2010 (8:10 am)“Besides the Volt, which won’t have its own separate assembly line, the plant will also be used to produce the Cadillac DTS and Buick Lucerne.”
There are 4 assembly lines at Hamtramck, so it would make sense that 3 are for the 3 vehicles and the 4th is unused. I just realized a reasonable explanation, the Volt line will probably produce Amperas as well, so that explains the above statement.
Apr 10th, 2010 (12:15 pm)Ever since you made your post John, I wanted to say something, but wasn’t quite sure how to put it. Statik summed up my feelings well. In spite of a few trolls, this site is starting to come together with a core group of decent people pulling for a common goal.
Yes, it is best to say, John, I’m sorry for your loss and I mean it.
Apr 10th, 2010 (1:19 pm)I’m so sorry to hear that. My grandmother died a few years ago at 94. I still miss her, but I know it’s much harder on my mother. It’s not the sort of think you ever get over. But it does get better.
-3
Apr 10th, 2010 (1:21 pm)They won’t start building sellable units until November, which means that there won’t be an inventory built up.
What’s wrong GM, not expecting much demand? It will be interesting when people go to their so-called authorized Volt dealerships only to be turned away and told that the only Volt is the showroom demo car and it aint for sale.
If you were going to do it this way GM, then you should have taken preorders and announced that the first year model will only be built to people who preordered.
Knuckleheads.
Apr 10th, 2010 (7:52 pm)I wonder how’s that possibly done.
Apr 10th, 2010 (10:08 pm)@ John K.
I feel deeply for your loss, while the pain you are going through is a very personal thing, I can say the support I got from members here after the loss of my life partner going on two years ago was nothing short of incredible.
I honestly feel that this is the Volt family, here at Lyle’s site. The posters here helped get me through a VERY difficult period in my life, and I KNOW they, we, will help you through this.
As Laura says, “It is in the valleys we grow”.
God Bless you, and yours, JohnK.
-4
Apr 10th, 2010 (11:58 pm)hehehe
Well said, and double over.
This place is a proto-cult. This is how cults get started – when people are in more for the social networking and mental support aspect, as opposed to critical thinking and discovery. Where everyone says “good night” and “see you tomorrow” before they log off.
And of course a lot of people here are somehow related to GM – probably the largest failure in US corporate history.
Apr 11th, 2010 (5:00 pm)Don’t hold your breath. These guys at the GM have done magic moves before.. If you haven’t seen Who Killed The Electric Car? documentary – you really don’t know better half of it. Very interesting indeed… and sad. Perfectly good EV 1 cars were ALL collected back destroyed although promises were made.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
Apr 12th, 2010 (1:20 am)Proto-cults yeah. And don’t forget other places that do wierd stuff like say good night. Like places of business, offices, clubs, gyms and fitness programs, youth activities and families. Or OMG places where people might say, see you later, like bars and coffee shops and places with other insidious activities, that fool everyone by seemingly promoting an everyday routine that fosters ordinary courtesy. Yep good thing you figured it out before it gets out of hand. Did ya call Homeland Security yet?