The first pre-production Chevrolet Volt to be built on production line tools at the Detroit assembly plant rolled off the assembly line today.
This vehicle is the first of several hundred PPV (Process, Product Validation) that will be built at the Detroit-Hamtramck plant prior to going into retail production in the fourth quarter.
Theses cars, also known as validation builds, are important because they let the automaker know how the high volume process works and enables them to iron out any snags. They use this process to ensure the tools have been properly built, the factory properly arranged, and the workers effectively trained.
The building process itself was first developed earlier this year at GM’s Warren technical center where the 80 IV (integration vehicles) were made. One quarter of those cars have been used for crash tests so far, and the remaining ones have logged well over half a million collective miles of testing.
Like everything else it seems in the Volt program, since its inception, the first full scale assembly line build has gone remarkably well too.
“Never seen a first, pre-production build go as smoothly as this one,” said Andrew Farah, Volt chief engineer.
This first car and many more will be kept by GM for testing. The first car builds go very slowly. This PPV number 1 though rolling off the line today, first began production on Monday. At peak production this plant is capable of building 200,000 cars per year. There is some evidence GM has projected a production limit of 50,000 to 60,000 cars per year initially.
However, Chevrolet marketing manager John Hughes has said GM is committed to build to demand.
“We believe initially we’ll have much greater demand than we have supply,” Hughes told NBC News NY. However GM “can dramatically increase production if demand is there.”
By its production today GM has met another landmark goal of building the first full scale production line Chevrolet Volt in the first quarter of 2010.
Some of the limelight of this news is shared by Nissan announcing its Leaf EV price at $32,780 (plus $2200 for 220V charger), causing some to speculate it has undercut the Volt. However, the Volt is a very different car, not to mention its price has never been released.
Hughes refused to say when GM will release the Volt’s price.
He did say “it takes all kinds of EVs at different price points to meet the needs of consumers, just as there are all different types of SUVs at different prices.”
Source (USA Today) and (NBC News)
+6
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:08 am)Exciting News, I hope they have the demand and they can keep up!
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:09 am)Good morning everyone!
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:11 am)Another milestone, getting closer to November every day. Exciting times!
+3
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:12 am)What a great day. I have to confess that the past three years of reading this blog have provided a real education on how the auto industry goes about its businesses.
I found this quote to be interesting: “We believe initially we’ll have much greater demand than we have supply,” Hughes told NBC News NY. However GM “can dramatically increase production if demand is there.”
As much as I like to hear this, I also wonder: If GM loses money on every Volt, as has often been avowed, how can it afford to dramaticaly increase production?
+13
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:23 am)Great new it comes as Holiday Present for Pesach holiday that represents freedom and liberation – in this case freedom from oil abuse.
+3
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:25 am)What color was it?
Don’t get all excited of the pic of the Volt in front of the Hamtramck sign: it’s the production-concept mockup that was rolled out 18 months ago.
$2,200 for the Leaf’s 220V charger? I have to believe that electronics that expensive are already in the Volt’s on-board charger. I sure hope that the Volt’s wall-mounted 220V “charger” is just a smart interface running, at most, a couple of hundred bucks.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:26 am)Now that product validation vehicles are being built. Wonder if this means the interior texture designing is complete? Will GM mate a brown baseball stitch saddle interior with the white diamond tri coat exterior? What color and design options are available for the center control stack? Hope to see images soon.
=D-Volt
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:28 am)GREAT!!!!!!! Time to start a fan club. …….
Tom
+4
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:29 am)I just can not wait to find out the price, and the gas mileage of the Volt in the ICE mode. To me, these two items will dictate how huge of a success the Volt will be!
+7
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:29 am)For every 230 MPG Volt they sell, they can sell a lot of high-profit V-8 Corvettes and Camaros and still meet the pending corporate average fuel economy requirements. Net, GM makes more profit than if they hadn’t sold that Volt.
+54
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:31 am)I just got home at about 2AM today after a spectacular experience driving a Volt in NYC and spending 1 on 1 time with several key GM people, including Bob Boniface and John Hughes, who Lyle quotes above. Thanks to you all for your contest votes!
As Lyle’s lead-in article says, “At peak production this plant is capable of building 200,000 cars per year. There is some evidence GM has projected a production limit of 50,000 to 60,000 cars per year initially. However, Chevrolet marketing manager John Hughes has said GM is committed to build to demand.”
Based on my driving experience this Monday, I can assure everyone GM should easily sell the 200,000 cars/year they say they can produce! As Dan Petit suggested from his test drive in Houston, the car instantly seemed very familiar, almost as if it somehow adapted itself to my driving needs, desires & skills!. THE VOLT IS BY FAR THE EASIEST TO DRIVE, THE MOST RESPONSIVE & THE MOST EXCITING CAR I’VE EVER DRIVEN!!! There will be much more to share after I “settle back to earth” in a day or so, including a discussion of the 26 questions I gave to GM’s John Hughes & others (in printed form and verbally).
+5
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:33 am)THIS is the REAL THING guys and gals.
+7
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:34 am)The biggest cost of the Volt is the overhead to develop it. The more Volts they build the more they can spread the development costs around and the overall cost per units comes down.
Therefore the more they build the more likely they come closer to break even or in a few years maybe even profit.
+7
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:41 am)Great news. I hope somehow GM is able to undercut the 35,000 price for the Leaf which would get it under 30,000 with the rebate. And I hope the demand exceeds their wildest expectations and the electric car era is born.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:47 am)Nasaman, I look forward to reading your full report!
26 questions?! Did they answer them all?
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:49 am)Good morning everyone!
If the volt works as well as it has been suggested the word will spread like wild fire, there’ll be no problem in attaining a 200,000 + production line in no time. We’ll all get a chance to test drive and see for ourselves if the cost will be worth it. Nothing like a test drives to get your wallet out.
Hallelujah! The day of reckoning is coming.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:52 am)Thanks Nasaman. I really look forward to reading it.
+25
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:59 am)This is a good day for most people.
But for all those who cried vaporware for the past few years,…
…Well, I guess they’ll have to suck it up and admit they were wrong.
+5
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:12 am)______________________________________________________
From Lyle’s Article:
“…By its production today GM has met another landmark goal of building the first full scale production line Chevrolet Volt in the first quarter of 2010…”
———————————–
Way to go GM Voltec Team!!!
______________________________________________________
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:15 am)Thanks nasaman. Looking forward to your future postings! And, congratulations to you and all the others who were given the opportunity to drive a Volt.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:15 am)If GM builds 50,000 Volts per year, and annual US car sales are still at a low 10 million units per year, this is only one Volt per every 200 sales (1/2 of one percent). It certainly does seem, based on early driving reviews by Nasaman and Dan Petit, that GM should be able to sell more.
However, the limiting factor that I see is battery production. GM can make large numbers of ICE’s, 2-mode’s, sheet metal, etc. However, I’m not sure how many battery packs they can make in Brownstown. Also factor into this equation that the Ampera will go on sale next year, and it may source its battery pack from Brownstown as well.
It will be interesting to see how GM responds to high demand for the Volt.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:20 am)________________________________________________________
#11 nasaman said:
”I just got home at about 2AM today after a spectacular experience driving a Volt in NYC…There will be much more to share after I “settle back to earth in a day or so…”
————————–
We all look forward to your detailed report…spare not details!
__________________________________________________________
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:20 am)GM should expect to spread the development costs for the Volt over time in that the technology developed will go into many models. As long as they can at least recoup the production cost for each car, I see no reason why they shouldn’t match production to demand and dominate the market. Am I missing something?
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:23 am)Nice nice, very nice.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:27 am)Great news GM! Make them great!
Really looking forward to reading the driving impressions of our friends and family here. Let us know all of your impressions – good or bad.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:30 am)Another good day for EV fans.
Hope the price and mpg are competitive. If so it will really invigorate the EV market.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:47 am)That is impressive, Nasaman, that you went prepared with the fact finding mission;
looking fwd to your full report!
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:48 am)It reminds me of an old SNL skit where they have some guys selling “used cars” out in a stadium parking lot during a game. Anyway they ask “How can we afford to sell cars at a loss like this?” “Volume”
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:48 am)The good news just keeps coming and coming.
Is there a forum post where the test drive winners have their comments? Should probably have a separate section for test drive impressions.
+8
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:48 am)Who said GM would never get this far ?
And the Volt will never be built ?
+5
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:50 am)Nasaman, can’t wait to hear the questions, I’m sure they were well thought out. I just hope the answers from GM are equally thought out and meaningful.
join thE REVolution
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:54 am)OT: AP story this morning on the Leaf price reports that GM “was looking at pricing the Volt…. around $35,000. It would cost $27,500 with the tax credit. But GM executives have said they are trying to lower the price.”
GM’s Rob Peterson said the Leaf price “will have some infuence on our pricing decisions.”
Didn’t Posawatz say at some point that the price would be “well below” $40k. I’d say that $35k qualifies as “well below.”
+4
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:01 am)Slightly off topic comment… With the 1st Pre-Production Volt rolling off today and the LEAF announcement yesterday. I made a friendly bet (2 beers and dinner) with a guy in my office that before we die we will pay $1 for a gallon of gas again.
I know at 1st that seems crazy, but I made the observation that if you believe in the laws of economics (As we engineers believe in F=MA, 1st law of thermodynamics, etc.) that you have to believe over time consumers will want an EV, BEV, etc. and that gasoline demand will go DOWN. That won’t happen soon, but as gas goes UP demand for LEAF, Volt, Infinite EV, etc. will go UP. I think once people drive an EV/BEV style car the idea of traditional cars will not be appealing. The noise, shifting of gears, maintanence, reliability of all the menchanical moving parts will become unappealing. It’s like comparing our traditional wired phone line with cell phone service. I haven’t had “wired” phone sevice in 5 years personally.
My question to this highly intellegent well informed Blog/Message Board. In 10 – 15 years what will a gallon of gas cost…? Note I said in 10 – 15 not 4 or 5 years…..
Awesome week for EV/BEV
Go Volt
+7
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:05 am)Great news about the validation builds. After watching the TV special about the Volt being built on the pre-production facility line I truly appreciate the benefits of the standard production line. Building cars is very complicated and difficult.
I am, however, continually bothered by statements like this one quoted by the lead in article, namely, “We believe initially we’ll have much greater demand than we have supply,” Hughes told NBC News NY. However GM “can dramatically increase production if demand is there.”
When you take it apart it’s basically contradictory. Look at the first part: “We believe initially we’ll have much greater demand than we have supply”. OK, GM will not build enough cars to satisfy demand. Then look at the second part: “However, GM can dramatically increase production if demand is there”. Huh? Since he just said demand would be there, in fact he said that demand would be so great as to outstrip supply, what’s up with the “if demand is there” statement. I’ve seen this type of statement before and it just seems contradictory on its face. Maybe they can’t make more at first? Maybe they think demand will quickly fade?
I have no idea what these statements mean, though my sense is it’s along the lines of “We’e not really committed to making many of these, so we’re not making many, but in order to chill you out we’ll tell you that we can make more later”.
+12
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:08 am)“There is some evidence GM has projected a production limit of 50,000 to 60,000 cars per year initially.”
Chevy Camaro sales passed 60,000 not too long ago and has been the biggest seller here other than trucks. And I should point out that most of those sold were about $35,000 SS/RS V8′s.
I can’t wait to start delivering VOLT’s! [ I am required to do a delivery test drive with every purchase. Eat your heart out...
]
+4
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:08 am)Hi from Chile everyone. I’ve been bouncing around South America, but still keeping track of my GM-Volt.com news. What a huge day. The first Volt off of the Hamtramck assy line! And i’m glad to hear GM is going to build on demand. That makes our chances of getting a Volt that much better. If they come anywhere near the Nissan Leaf price, that would be amazing.
+4
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:10 am)Wow, and after yesterday I had almost resigned myself to buying a Leaf in 2011. Maybe I can hold out till 2012 and there will be Volts in Ohio.
+17
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:12 am)=================================
At the test drive on Monday, they would not say what the actual CS mode MPG would be. What they did say was we would be very happy with the number………..
And for those that cried foul about the 230 number, they said they just used the test that the government gave them, and that was the number that ended up. But mostly, what they are saying is that it will be very much an individual number, based on driving patterns and conditions. If you only use one gallon of gas per year, but drive 11,000 miles all electric, what would you say your mileage is? That is the difficulty they are facing.
They are very aware of the pricing issue. Again, they could not talk about where it will end up, but they know that demand will be tied very closely to the price. They do not want to price it out of the marketplace, but they do not want to lose money forever on this project either.
A few other things to note:
They were asking if statik would be there. I am not sure, but I think they had a bucket of warm tar and some feathers hidden behind one of the doors somewhere with his name on it!
They are very impressed with nasaman.
Jim Campbell seemed really surprised and very happy that we would come in from all over the country, just for a short test ride in the Volt. We all told him that this is how much we want this vehicle to be a success, and that we are all ready to buy! We also told them that we thought they were way off in what the demand would be for this car. Someone mentioned that they better prepare for three shifts at the Volt assembly plant…..
Much more to come in the report I sent to Lyle!
It was really great to meet the other gm-volt.com people!!!
+3
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:17 am)Are you talking in today’s dollars (we might be facing a lot of inflation in a few years)?
Gas prices will always swing wildly. Increase and Decrease in short term demands have huge impacts on price. Long term the prices can only go up and much faster than inflation. Thats just a fact. There is less and less easy to get at oil, and that cheaper oil can only be added at a slower rate then the current huge oil fields decline. Estimates are that at least 4 million barrels/per day of production are lost to aging fields and need to be replaced.
So the cost of oil recovery will continue to go up ‘over time’. So even though a glut of oil in the short run can drop prices, the average prices will continue up.
Everyone should note that in 2008 when oil ‘peaked’ at $159 a barrel, it was just short lived, the average price for the entire year was around $80 a barrel. This year as demand is picking up again world wide, we will see the highest average per barrel for the entire year.
This year we will see the highest average gas prices for a calendar year, and that is even without major hurricanes or wars which of course would make them even higher.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:20 am)There’s a book about turning oil into salt. Basically, make oil a non-issue and the price will plummet. I believe that gasoline will someday be very low, but, the timeframe of 10-15 years is too short. I’m thinking more like 25 years.
If we started today (which we apparently have
) , it will take a couple decades to replace the fleet with EVs and other alternative fuel vehicles.
+5
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:21 am)Wow, guys —I didn’t expect quite this much anticipation! I need to say that I have NO formal response to my 26 questions, and GM people all made it clear I couldn’t expect one. One GM person even said they couldn’t ever remember (re: other new cars) being told so many times by management that they could NOT answer questions (except for those based on already-released information). However, I’ve formed a few opinions/educated guesses based on their reactions to certain questions that I want to share here.
Also, Lyle has suggested that —rather than posting my test drive report in the comments section of this or another topic— that I instead write up my own full guest post that he’ll publish. I presume this would be under a separate topic, and possibly also include the opinions of other GM-Volt.com test drivers. So try to be patient –you’ll hear all about it within a few days!
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:21 am)Think about it this way. Suppose you spend a million dollars on a cookie factory. Then the factory can make cookies at $3 a box (including labor and ingredients) that you can sell for $4 a box. If you take into account all costs, you will “lose money” on every box sold because the factory cost so much. But you are still better off every time you sell a box of cookies, because that is another dollar in the bank, and if you should sell more than a million….
That’s how GM is with the Volt. There are considerable development expenses, and the margin on the car is not nearly as much as on a fully optioned Cadillac. Still, even if it is not enough to cover all the sunk costs, corporate overhead, and legacy expenses. for every Volt sold, GM will take in more more than it costs to build, and that margin improves gm’s financials.
+4
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:23 am)Hmm, I think there is an implied timescale there –
“We believe initially we’ll have much greater demand than we have supply,”
…the first 6-12 months
“can dramatically increase production if demand is there.”
…after 2-3 years.
Remember other hot cars like the New Beetle and new Thunderbird which sold like crazy then quickly cooled off. I hate to say it, but a Toyota-like fiasco also could occur which throws a damper on sales. I guarantee there will at least be minor annoying issues, which will be quickly fixed by software updates. Best to not flood the market until these things settle down.
Cool news from DHAM. It must be frustrating for the workers to work in slow motion for months, but it is all part of the job I suppose.
Still hoping for some kind of local Volt test program with Detroit Edison or something. I have $30K saved up, guys.
+3
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:33 am)I sincerely hope you’re dead wrong on this one. At one point, I believe it will be quite tempting to increase taxes on oil just to make sure that BEV and EREV remain attractive or become more attractive. Oil should be kept for heating purposes, tire manufacturing, airplane fuel and the likes. If enough people come to care about the environment, it might be politically acceptable to raise taxes and subsidize green cars more.
+10
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:36 am)One more thing I forgot to mention:
I was told directly that this site is read regularly by many people at GM, and that they take what we have to say very seriously!
I was very impressed by that, and find it reassuring that GM wants to make this car meet our needs!!!!!
and BTW, Bob Boniface said if I really wanted a Gen-1, I could always just drive to Detroit to buy one. That sounds great, but I am just concerned about getting local service……
+4
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:36 am)Great news and nice comeback to yesterdays Leaf news – keep it coming GM.
I think the biggest river to cross in getting Volt production up above 50,000 will be whether they have battery capacity for that (as BillR said – its truly the long pole in the production tent as Toyota learned trying to increase Prius Production) and, especially – whether top management has the appetite for this or not.
50,000 cars a year is an expensive marketing campaign (this is what Ford has done with its Hybrids, it makes 25,000 Escape Hybrids and 25,000 Fusion Hybrids a year way below demand, but looks good doing it.), but 200,000 or 500,000 a year and you can start to change the world. I guess we’re going to see if the current top GM execs (who weren’t the top execs that started this program) have the guts for this or not – I hope they do and if they do they’ll need more than 200,000 a year capacity JMHO of course, the market for the Volt will be bigger than the Leaf.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:37 am)It seems contradictory, you’re right. But I guess what he meant to say was : “However, GM can dramatically increase production if LONG TERM HIGH demand is there”.
Short term, demand will far exceed supply, obviously. What they have to figure out is if the ‘general population’ is buying into that EREV/BEV wave that early adopters will initiate. If so, then they will ramp up as fast they can. IMHO.
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:46 am)I agree with you but if I had to guess (I am bad a it) $2.00 because of all the taxes I don’t think we will see $1.00 but with with more nuke power, NG for trucks and electric cars I can see after the price shooting up again to over $5.00 that it will come back down to around $2.00 or lower.
+3
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:55 am)So much wonderful news! I guess all I need now is the names and addresses of all East Cost Chevrolet Dealers who will be the first to sell the Volt. The nearest to me will earn my business.
I promise I’ll only buy one for now.
GO-GM-VOLT
NPNS!
-1
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:00 am)I agree with you here – this is called covering your @$$ in case the execs aren’t really serious about changing the world (Nissan, fortunately is in a hurry to do just that and this may push/pull GM along faster than the original GM plan).
Unfortunately, GM has a long history of starting great ideas/projects and then after the execs that started them are gone, having the new execs kill those radical ideas – either directly or through financial neglect (EV1 and Saturn are just two of many that come to mind). Hopefully the new execs will embrace this vehicle and idea (get off oil).
Now, probably (just a guess) for at least year or two they are stuck with their initial planned battery production limits (for some reason, as Toyota has shown with the Prius, it takes a long time to ramp up battery production compared to the vehicles themselves), but for 2013 they should be able to go way beyond 50,000 if they decide they want to, by deciding now. If they’re still calling for 50,000 Volts in 2013 that won’t be a good sign. Its going to be interesting.
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:09 am)Re Nasa-engr #33 What will be the price of Gasoline in 10 years?
What they can sell it for. Law of Supply and Demand.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:09 am)Both myself and Lyle were originally going to go, but unfortunately it got all logistically messed up with the dates, and our schedules. And it ended up neither of us made it out…which was a shame.
I am however still willing to make a appearance in Detroit in exchange for the use of any unused GM Tiger Box tickets they don’t need. I am ‘in town’ a good dozen or so times over the course of the baseball season…including the home opener against the Indians on the 9th of next month. /et le hint
+3
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:19 am)#8
I think this is one, LOL!
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:20 am)Re Jim-1 #45 Question about service.
If you buy it, you will be able to get it serviced by Mr. Goodwrench at your Chevy Dealer wherever that may be.
Years ago, lots of people went to Detroit and picked their new vehicle up at the factory to avoid the transportation cost. They combined it with a vacation.
+3
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:20 am)statik:
You are shameless……………………
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:23 am)========================
But what are they going to know about the battery pack, that generator, and all those new control electronics? If they have the training, then I am fine with it, but if not, the thought of having to truck it back to Michigan is kind of scary…………..
JMHO
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:24 am)#36
Nice to hear from you pal. Don’t be a stranger. Best regards. +1
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:31 am)Whatever the volume will be, I can guarantee it will revolutionize the auto industry much the way the 2nd Gen Prius changed the way we look at Hybrids. The Volt with it’s powerful and smooth acceleration, high class design and solid workmanship will look pretty good. I think it will be similar to the 2nd Gen Prius also in that it was kind of cool at first, but then when gas prices started shooting up, it became harder and harder to get.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:32 am)“The building process itself was first developed earlier this year at GM’s Warren technical center where the 80 IV (integration vehicles) were made. One quarter of those cars have been used for crash tests so far ….”
R.I.P.
+7
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:33 am)Great news! There’s no way they won’t meet that November deadline now.
If they can move this fast on setting up initial production, they can probably add capacity rather quickly if they need to. At least I hope they can…
+9
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:38 am)I’m sure I’ll be voted down for saying this… As much as I love the Volt, I sometimes think that some of us love the Volt so much that we start making exaggerated statements like these. Porsche fans would say the same thing about their cars. I think driving the Volt is exciting to people like us… I sure as hell would have loved to test drive the Volt in New York, but calling the experience almost next to Godly seems a little excessive. Many non-car or non-Volt fans will go: “meh, it’s nice… but not the best thing since sex” like some people here would think. Sort of like how some people are die-hard fans of products made by Bose, Apple, or Monster Cable. Those manufacturers have the most brilliant marketing departments on the planet: Bose speakers are outclassed by speakers costing half, Macs are prone to crashing as much as my Windows XP computer (seriously–we have both at work), and magical speaker wire blends… give me a break! We all have to “settle back to earth” here, people.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:41 am)Go Tribe!
+3
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:43 am)The problem is that oil is used for a lot of things other than just driving. Or even transportation. And even when it comes to transportation–no one has yet come up with a workable EREV or BEV truck. Or even minivan. Much less an airplane. The world has already depleted much of its easily accessible oil supplies. (Many of the current oil fields would go offline at below $50 a barrel.) And demand is accelerating in developing countries. So I think it will stay relatively expensive for the next 10 – 15 years.
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:54 am)/sacrilege
…but does not make it topical enough for me to post these
Hastily Made Cleveland Tourism Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY
Hastily Made Cleveland Tourism Video (2):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:58 am)There’s nothing wrong with fandom. You need ardent fans for any product to really catch on. And just because most people don’t love it as much as the fans do doesn’t mean that they won’t a)buy it, and b)enjoy it, and c) find it very useful. I don’t love my wii fit as much as some people do, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t provide a useful workout at odd hours of the night when I need one. (I have strange exercise habits.)
+4
Mar 31st, 2010 (11:09 am)Apparently you haven’t read many of my past comments here —I’ve been extremely critical of the Volt design in many respects, so I was genuinely surprised when it was so superior to my own new GM vehicle —in important ways I’ve never experienced before!
Mar 31st, 2010 (11:38 am)#61 Gary Many non-car or non-Volt fans
will go: “meh, it’s nice… but not the best thing since sex” like some people here would think. Sort of like how some people are die-hard fans of products
made by Bose, Apple, or Monster Cable. Those manufacturers have the most brilliant marketing departments on the planet: Bose speakers are outclassed by
speakers costing half, Macs are prone to crashing as much as my Windows XP computer (seriously–we have both at work), and magical speaker wire blends…
give me a break! We all have to “settle back to earth” here, people.
(Quote)
So Gary, if you decide to buy a Volt will you resent it for having a Bose sound system? The system will be tuned for the Volt and use something like half the power and about half the weight of a conventional sound system while still giving superb sound quality. I love my Bose products, but like CJS I would like the option of not having to buy a lot of bells and whistles if I would rather have a basic ev. Which would be more affordable for more people.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (11:39 am)If you have a relatively new GM vehicle, then your impression of the Volt’s supriority is indeed remarkable.
Of course, you drove what is essentially a hand-built car. Let’s hope that when the production line is spitting out scores or hundreds of Volts per day that they are just as impressive.
And, if they are indeed that impressive, it will help quell concerns about paying a lot of money for “a Chevy.”
It will be interesting to compare the Volt overall package to the Leaf in terms of interior, fit and finish, handling, acceleration and overall refinement.
+4
Mar 31st, 2010 (11:40 am)Anyone else notice that Tagamet is MIA?
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (11:45 am)I’m typing this on a blackberry at the doctors office (see, I AM a die hard volt fan as well), but I hope that volt drivers don’t get the holier-than-thou reputation that prius drivers “enjoy”.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (11:46 am)I hope we now get to see a production version of the car without those temp front and rear lamps. I am also hoping we get to see each of the colors being offered now shown on a built car (as well as the interior colors and variations).
+8
Mar 31st, 2010 (11:54 am)I picture him in a Volt at the show with the windows up and the door locked, refusing to leave. (And he doesn’t have his smartphone.)
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:05 pm)An exciting day with great postings to read and enjoy. Thanks for the updates!
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:08 pm)You mean, besides these plug in trucks and vans?
http://www.pluginamerica.org/vehicles/#Commercial-Vehicles
and these plug in airplanes, with six commercial choices available right this second?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_aircraft
5 seconds on a search engine does wonders for your knowledge base.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:21 pm)#70 I’m typing this on a blackberry at the doctors office (see, I AM a die hard volt fan as well), but I hope that volt drivers don’t get the holier-than-thou
reputation that prius drivers “enjoy”
The fact that Prius owners enjoy getting great gas mileage and might have a smile to show their satisfaction should not be confused as an “Holier then Thou” additude. I think there will be a lot of people that buy electric drive vehicles that will have a big smile on their faces for all the reasons that electrics are superior and theres nothing wrong with that additude. I hope your doctor visit isn’t anything serious .
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:23 pm)“Go Tribe”????? to the basement???
Go Tigers!! (not tiger :>)
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:24 pm)That price includes professional installation, and is an average total expense which I believe assumes having to add a 220V circuit and run wiring. I expect the Volt wall unit price is likely to add up to a bit less, but almost as much, under the same assumptions. One difference though – Nissan has contracted with a company which apparently has the exclusive right to install the unit. I haven’t heard anything about GM pulling a sly trick like that.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:25 pm)We don’t have to completely eliminate oil use, how about just imported oil to keep the money in our economy.
EVs
some elec buses, some trucks with CNG or whatever, replace home heating oil.
Just need to keep money in our economy and create jobs, that most important thing or our country is going down the tubes fast.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:27 pm)That’s pretty amazing if they work out. Given the battery constraints with cars, I’m shocked.
That said, I’m highly skeptical of the Chinese electric aircraft planes. But maybe that’s because I want to be. If it’s true, we’re going to have to bail out Boeing. And Lockheed Martin. And possibly Gulfstream. But, more importantly, it means the technology transfer to China is complete. And that scares me. A lot.
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:31 pm)Well, I have to say that my local Chevy salesman seems to be quite on the ball. If anyone wants to know the particulars (they are taking orders) then send me a PM.
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:40 pm)Wow, always something to comment on…
2-3 years to spool up an assembly line? They could start a new line faster than that.
I believe everyone who *WANTS a Volt will be able to get one in ’11. (*You may have to drive to get one, suffer the indignity of a waiting-list, need to know a friendly dealer.)
I just bought a Snickers bar out of the machine at work.. $.75. $1 gas? nope. $2 sounds about right if* demand drops thru floor — expect to pay a per-mile road tax ‘tho. Since the road tax is bundled with gas you should add the road tax to future gas prices.
lousloot was not invited to drive volt
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:45 pm)I believe that he went to NYC for the Volt drive.
+3
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:51 pm)So I talked to some people for a while about that, with my version being buying one in DC and driving it to NC, and they said there would not be any problem with getting service in NC, that they were well aware that buyers would be driving all over the country, and that they intended to be sure that we all had a good experience wherever we went. Nothing on the record, of course, but consistent with what we’ve been hearing from Dan Petit.
So, go and get it as soon as you can.
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:54 pm)#63
Forever, IMHO. The present $3/gal is just a plateau on the upward trend, again IMHO. I would take the bet against ever seeing $1 again any day in the week. All the more reason for:
LJGTVWOTR!! NMST!
Before it’s too late.
+4
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:54 pm)As a GA pilot and owner of a kit airplane, none of these “6 commerically available” things impressed me as being desirable to the general public. They ARE impressive as being a start into the field, but these are for the most part Ultralights or MotorGliders (with the emphasis on glider).
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:54 pm)Sure did. Lookin’ forward to his report as much as I am to Nasaman’s.
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:57 pm)I understand, yet what they said was that it would be ok. I took that to mean that they would provide your local dealer with parts and support as needed. It’s a risk, but it could be true.
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:57 pm)BTW, the subject of airplanes and airfoils is of interest to me, (see #85) and there ARE things you can do to a car to improve aerodynamics. I had to look up some of them last night, but the refresher was good. I could relay some of this if there is interest.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:58 pm)#70
When I get my Volt, I’m gonna spend my days looking down my nose at Prius drivers, LOL. “Holier than a Prius driver.” Why not, we will deserve it!
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (12:58 pm)I’m not sure how intelligent or well informed I can claim to be, but here’s a wild guess:
a) 96% of all cars built between now and 2015 will depend primarily or fully on gas or diesel.
b) 40% of those cars will still be on the road in 2022.
c) Many cars built between 2015 and 2022 will still use gas or diesel.
d) Conclusion: Less than half the vehicles on the road in 2022 will be electric or hydrogen.
So I don’t think lack of gas vehicles will depress the cost of gas significantly. I suspect the biggest imponderables may be:
1) Will a Democrat or Republican be elected president in 2016?
2) By 2020 will most Americans believe global warming is real, or a hoax?
Without saying whether my answers to these questions are expected or desired or both, I will predict much higher gas taxes in 2022, continued inflation in general, higher oil prices, and thus an average gasoline price of $7.00.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:00 pm)Well, if we find cheap preferable substitutes for all the uses, and the saudis still have readily accessible oil, it could happen. But for that to happen, people would have had to of stopped using to the point where finding a gas station that still carries gas rather than the substitute would be a problem.
I agree that that’s not likely in the next 20 years. And by that time, I doubt there will be any readily accessible oil left. But you never know…
By the way, I’ve been seeing a lot of corn-based plastics around. And I was if anyone here knows how they balance out compared to regular plastic ? Since corn based ethanol is such a disaster, is it the same for the plastic? Or do they actually make sense?
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:06 pm)Another red letter day, BTW. Congratulations to GM, Dr. Dennis, and all you die hard bloggers. What fun to be a tiny bit of something positive in history.
What was that funny little car we were talking about yesterday? Brief? Schmief? I dunno.
LJGTVWOTR!! NMST!
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:10 pm)“We believe initially we’ll have much greater demand than we have supply,” Hughes told NBC News NY. However GM “can dramatically increase production if demand is there.”
I especially liked that line. Now launch it at a reasonable price, make the 2nd Gen Volt even lower priced, give all apartment/condo dwellers a place to plug-in, and next thing you know, you got (in Frank Weber’s words) a “paradigm shift” in transportation.
Go Volt! George, Sudbury, Canada
+4
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:12 pm)Just got back from doing some chores and had some spare time to kill at Borders. While I was there I looked at the Consumer Reports ratings of the best and worst cars. I swear, Consumer Reports really have something against GM. If they could, they would destroy GM. It makes me wonder what ratings they will give the Volt and the Chevy Cruze when they come out. I’m sure it’ll be negative. They don’t want their darling Toyota to get beaten.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:15 pm)The key question is if they will still lose money on each car if the demand is that much higher. Economies of scale keep kicking in to very high volumes of production and will drive down costs.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:16 pm)Following link to WSJ site shows their reviewer in NYC at Pier 92, same place as Lyle’s group.
http://online.wsj.com/video/test-driving-chevy-hybrid-the-volt/623033AA-2106-4757-BE48-0F22F721F0F8.html?mod=WSJ_hps_videocarousel_3
Note the reviewer says “oh my” when his gm minder presses the “sport” button.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:23 pm)I hope you get your own front page post
*hint* *hint*
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:25 pm)I think Sasparilla has summed up my concerns. I just get a feeling that this is one more example of GM having a super idea and then just not following through. Yeah they’ll make some cars, but if they had some conviction they could end up dramatically changing the industry. At the end of the day they’ll be talking about how great it was to do an IPO a year early rather than how great it was to lead an automotive revolution.
Compare GM’s approach to Nissan’s and it seems obvious that one company has a vision and one doesn’t. This is not only sad, but given that GM has essentially been given a free ride at taxpayer’s expense, it would be nice to see some bold moves rather than the cautious moves which caused them to end up in bankruptcy in the first place. If they fail then they fail and the IPO gets delayed. Big deal. Here’s an idea. Rather than sending billions to Germany to prop up Opel maybe they could make a hundred thousand more Volts.
In some ways it would be better if they just didn’t do anything at all rather than walking up to the door but not having the courage to walk through it.
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:27 pm)A good chunk of the development cost died with the rest of the debt tied to the “old” GM.
+3
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:32 pm)Guess you got over the tire size, the grill, and the plug on one side only! LOL
Seriously, no doubt you can do a test drive without letting stars get in your eyes. It will be absolutely great to read what you have to say!
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:35 pm)I agree wholeheartedly. What I’d like to see is NO use taxes on electric cars for a while. Jack up the petroleum use taxes to keep collecting the same revenue until electric cars hit mainstream.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:44 pm)#91
Well I dunno, not to restate the obvious, but it takes a lot of diesel fuel to grow, harvest and ship corn. So even that’s not a free lunch. By the end of the day it wouldn’t surprise me much if it took as much oil as it would to just make petro based plastic in the first place.
Mar 31st, 2010 (1:49 pm)X2…
I’m awaiting the update. I hope he’s just out enjoying the sights in NYC.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (2:08 pm)=======================
All I know is that Tag showed up really early for his test drive, and was gone by the time I got there. which was about 10:00 AM. I did happen to notice that the Hustler Strip Club was right across the street from Pier 92. I hope he did not give in to temptation, as we may never see or hear from him again…..
Of course that may be part of “enjoying the sights in NYC” !!!!
Mar 31st, 2010 (2:23 pm)#90
Alas, I can only agree. Which is exactly why LJGTVWOTR!! is so critically important.
Mar 31st, 2010 (2:25 pm)Hmmm… it does have a nice ring to it…
-1
Mar 31st, 2010 (2:26 pm)what is taking so long for a final decision on MPG?
Mar 31st, 2010 (2:31 pm)They could probably add a second line inside of a year (admitted swag). The problem isn’t the car or most components. The bottleneck could be batteries. From LG Chem’s announcement, they are only planning capacity for 60K worth of Volt battery cells per year and that is in 2012.
Mar 31st, 2010 (2:35 pm)What I would like to see is the Government stop useing taxes to force people to do what they want them to do. Taxes should only be to raise the money needed to run the government.
But thats just me. I am so crazy I even like personal responsibility, States rights and Property rights, So what do I know?
T (axed)
E (nough)
A (lready)
Ya I like that too.
Mar 31st, 2010 (2:35 pm)In all honesty, when I read that Bose was going to be doing the sound system, I wasn’t too impressed, although it wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me.
The reason why I brought up the Bose and Apple in my previous post is that I was waiting for a big Grand Opening sale at Best Buy where they were giving away a $500 gift card. One guy was bragging about his $400 Bose noise-cancelling headphones (that he was wearing at a the time–which made him look like a tool) that he had hooked up to his iPod touch or iPhone, and he talked about how much the liked gadgets and had all sort of Mac stuff, MacBooks, etc.
Hey, technology can be great. My fiancee has an iPhone and it is indeed slick and truly useful in her life, but she isn’t a person who bought it to show off. She didn’t fall for Apple’s marketing now she wants an iMac and everything else Apple like some people.
I hope that Volt drivers don’t get the reputation of being a bunch of crazies. Fans, yes. Crazies no.
-2
Mar 31st, 2010 (2:39 pm)As most people know, all reviews are opinions. While I can not wait for everyone’s reviews, everyone should remember that these reviews are based on a “short” test drive of a pre-production vehicle(s). The long term reviews of production Volts will provide the most info on real customer experience.
I’m talking about the day-to-day positive & negative experience of driving/owning the Volt. Since there is a focus on the positive aspects right now, possible negative (depending on your point of view) comments could be…
- “The electrical charge cord has become difficult to connect only after a year of use, but it beats stopping at a gas station”
- “I only got 32 miles in my Volt on a charge today, but it beats the time my LEAF stopped on a busy highway. I can not recall the last time my “ICE only vehicle” stopped due to lack of fuel. Even then, it only took a little bit of gas…not a tow.”
- “I just ran over a medium sized rock in my Volt. I hope it did not damage the battery pack housing…or worse the battery cells or electronics. I dread taking it to the dealer for service since I highly doubt my insurance/warranty would cover it. I remember reading on gm-volt.com that battery pack is an EXPENSIVE part. Since the Volt is new type of vehicle, it would be tough (or impossible) to find used or aftermarket parts. Even if it is just damage to the battery housing, I would imagine that the dealer will not repair the just the housing which means replacing the entire battery pack. I should have listened to the advice from my accountant…wait for the generation 3 Volt.”
Mar 31st, 2010 (2:50 pm)It’s definitely not a free lunch. The question is, is it better? And I can’t find any literature on that. I’m sure there’s some advantage in terms of getting the technology ready if we find substitutes for oil for the growing, harvesting, and shipping. But other than that?
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (3:05 pm)I doubt that the US government is willing to bankroll GM taking chances. Right now they want to be able to tell voters that they cashed out of GM at a profit. Preferably before the elections.
They didn’t really have a choice about the Germany thing. Opel has technology that GM needs. And, if GM were to simply transfer the technology to their US operations, that would have taken time, that GM didn’t have. And there might be other difficulties that I don’t know about. Also, instead of liquidation, the German government would forced a technology transfer that would have hurt GM. Besides, they need access to the European market to maintain economies of scale and remain competitive. And that would be difficult without Opel.
The German government was willing to bankroll a Canadian/Russian takeover where the odds were pretty much stacked against success, IMHO. But when it came to GM, they wanted the US taxpayer to foot the bill. Meanwhile the US government let their auto companies have an exemption from our cafe standards….
Mar 31st, 2010 (3:08 pm)They can add capacity if they need to. Or import from Korea. Which wouldn’t be my first choice. But at least it’s an option.
+3
Mar 31st, 2010 (3:21 pm)It is hard to compete with petroleum-based polymers. I worked for a while for a company that teamed up with DuPont to produce propanediol (a monomer that can be used to produce polymers) from a fermentation process that I think was competitive.
Nuclear energy is the future. It’s advantages are overwhelming. We can save the oil for plastics, and our farmland for FOOD.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (3:25 pm)Thanks for the link to the Wall Street Journal Volt test drive video – It was pretty much uneventful and had no new information, of course, but what surprises me is the press’s abundance of misinformation. Such as if you skip ahead to WSJ’s report on Leaf’s pricing announcement, they quote the Volt’s initial price of, “I want to say 45 to 50 thousand dollars” and says it’s “alot more expensive than the Leaf”. The reporter then ends the piece with reinforcing the market will tell if the range limits of a pure EV will limit it’s success, and how many feel the Leaf’s abilities are less than Prius, and “EVEN the Chevy Volt”.
Come on, WSJ, lots of people read your editorials and they weigh heavily on people’s mindsets moving forward. Get your facts straight.
I hope GM doesn’t make a big splashy announcement of Volt’s price, then dribble out a few thousand that dealers gouge up to $60,000 and that, in turn, becomes “news”.
All-in-all, today can be counted as good news, for sure, coupled to the news just out that Toyota will be selling it’s Hybrid Synergy system for use in Mazda vehicles. This not only guarantees more competition and less petroleum usage by drivers , but IMO poses more reasons to GM brass to keep up the pressure by building Volts as fast as they can.
Nasa Eng? Gas at a buck per gallon in 15 years?!! Sorry, it’ll never happen. Most experts around the globe peg peak oil at 2012 – 2015, some have it as early as next year. Since China and India, and other countrys have projected larger increases in oil demand over the next 20 years, and supplies are waning, simple economics would dictate that the price of a gallon of crude is only going to go up up and up. ICE usage has such momentum in getting goods and services, airline passengers and ships from point A to B – there is ZERO WAY – that juggernaut of oil demand is going to spool down nearly that quickly in 15-20 years. I predict the price of crude then will still be much higher then that it is today even with the adoption of electric cars and trucks over that same time period.
Note: I also noticed the Obama administration went back on another of it’s election promises again and approved near-offshore drilling for Virginia’s coast and Florida. They also nicked Alaska’s crude production at the same time (?!) possibly tipping a “because we can” hat to Sarah baby.
Is it too late to get in on your two beers and dinner bet?
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (3:26 pm)That’s the thing, it takes much longer to setup additional battery production capacity than a new line for vehicle production.
The example is Toyota, back in 2007 they were already short of Prius’s and wanted to increase production. Increasing the cars was no problem, however they couldn’t get additional battery capacity in place until the 2010 model year. For the 2010 model year capacity went from ~300,000 a year to ~450,000, but they had to wait 2+ years to do that even though they desperately wanted to do it earlier.
I doubt LG Chem’s Korea would have a bunch (50k volt batteries a year etc.) of extra automotive battery capacity available to just turn on if GM needs it. In the battery world it seems they build the capacity they need and run it at 100%, cause its really expensive. If GM wants to be able to stay with or beat Nissan, they need to be planning for the additional battery production capacity now (preferably earlier – i.e. Nissan already has that 150,000 car + battery capacity being built for the Leaf in the US). GM can do this, but it’ll be a big change from their original game plan.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens – I’m hoping GM goes for it, but it’ll be a big decision.
I think this will be guaranteed to an extent, at least for 2011 since they’ll only make 10,000 Volts and it’ll be the same situation for the Leaf, I’m sure they won’t make near demand next year for either vehicle – and there will be gouging. Such is life.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (3:36 pm)This is such great news, particularly about the smoothness of the integration of the pre-production assembly line. In engineering, the smoother the initial going, the fewer the iterations it takes to get something right. And, under those smooth conditions, each iteration step has fewer unintended side-effects so there’s faster convergence to a solid product.
As for the volume, I’m convinced it’s going to be higher than expected. As I’ve been saying for a while, the Volt is like an insurance policy against gas price spikes. If gas is high, the user will charge up more. If gas is cheap, then he’ll charge less. With the Volt, there’s no more worries about prices spikes and gas lines, because with the Volt, there are two fueling options.
Add to that all the other benefits of the Volt and we have a real winner.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (3:41 pm)There is no possible way that the US government will be able to cash out of GM this year, much less this year before the elections. Can’t happen. But it really doesn’t matter. It has cashed out with a huge profit from bailing out the banks and that hasn’t quieted the criticism.
As for Opel, from what I understand it’s Opel that needs the patents from GM, not the other way around. One sticking point for GM — and a bug hurdle in the sale — is that it didn’t, and doesn’t, want to do a technology transfer. Can’t blame it for that. If push comes to shove Germany will not let all those jobs disappear. GM just needs to push. And my point is that GM should not be using US taxpayer money to protect German jobs at the same time it’s saying it doesn’t have enough resources for the Converj or more Volt production. If they use US taxpayer money to shutter operations then that’s what they have to do. But if the Germans aren’t interested in the jobs I don’t see why we should be. To some extent I can’t believe the specifics of the bail out didn’t make that clear, but that was probably because no one believed it would happen.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (3:47 pm)You didn’t drive it. I did. Nasaman is telling us the truth.
I will also have a report in a later post.
The event was an all-day affair, with different groups of people arriving at different times. I didn’t get to see Tagamet, I think he came early.
We were told that this car was on it’s way down the Hamtramck assembly line at the very moment we were standing there. We also learned (finally) how to pronounce Hamtramck.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (3:49 pm)The corn based plastic claims to be more environmentally friendly. Reduces air pollution. Cleaner to produce. Biodegradable. Healthier to use. Etc. I don’t know if its true or not, but if we can replace Oil for energy, then we can use corn to make plastic.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (3:56 pm)I once saw this word mashup definition:
hubrid: The feeling that Prius owners have about their car.
So how about this one:
EREVerent: The religious experience of first driving a Volt.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (3:57 pm)Great tag-line. Well done!
Bob did say that it would be “comparable to [other] hybrids.”
Hi, Jim I; it was great meeting you in NYC!
Mar 31st, 2010 (3:59 pm)Well done.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (4:04 pm)By “…after 2-3 years” I meant they would wait that long to decide whether or not to open the spigot. I didn’t say it would take 2-3 years to open the spigot. Then again, building cars is a bit more involved than making doughnuts, safe to say. And as others have noted the battery production could be a bottleneck (or not).
With all the craziness and incompetence in this world, I’m personally amazed that any cars get built, with all of the thousands of parts involved. But I’m sure there are a lot of disaster stories we never hear about, landfills filled with defective car parts, etc.
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (4:07 pm)I thought the piece was fine. It’s a video discussion not a written piece, so you can’t apply the same standards as you would to the paper. Some comments, like the stray remark about “even the Chevy Volt” has to be understood in context. I’m not sure they meant anything about it other than the Leaf would have less range than the Prius. The idea that the Volt might cost $45K or even $50K seems a bit far fetched, but the gist of her point, which was that Nissan seemed to be trying to make a BEV an affordable alternative to the Prius rather than a more expensive semi-luxury car, is right on the mark. (Although I’d look at production numbers as well as price).
I have no idea if Obama had a pledge about offshore oil development. It was clear well before the election that he was willing to accept offshore oil development so long as it was part of a more general effort aimed at reducing the nations’s reliance on foreign oil. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/01/AR2008080103199.html. So it seems strange that anyone would be too terribly surprised by this announcement. Not drilling in Bristol Bay has less to do with Sarah Palin being from Alaska — does she ever go there anymore? — than it does with the fact that Bristol Bay is the single largest source of seafood in America. No one wants oil which isn’t fish oil with their fish.
As a FYI, there is a web site, which won a Pulitzer Prize for its election coverage, that tracks his record on campaign promises about energy: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/energy/
Mar 31st, 2010 (4:26 pm)Really??? Like in a factory pickup!
Mar 31st, 2010 (4:43 pm)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8fkbEuCQss
I know many here despise any political talk here on GM-Volt, but as the U.S. governement, it’s standards, laws and regulations are strong motivators and perpetuators of the entire Voltec and 2-mode hybrid direction GM and others are undertaking, I must respond to DonC’s post.
Whenever an Obama supporter denies a current administration move as a reversal of campaign promises, I like to use video of the President himself, in his own words, in public and to the world – as a rebuttal, since it’s hard to argue with the man’s words on video tape.
Here he is in Florida during his campaign, and remember, todays announcement allows for drilling as close as 50 miles from Florida’s eastern Gulf Coast beaches. Also remember during the campaign how Nancy Pelosi spoke strongly with other leaders of her party that no drilling would EVER be allowed under their watch, within 100 miles of America’s coastlines. Now if someone disputes this – however much I DO NOT WANT to put politics into this forum – I will present the evidence of those promises just so we know the truth and not what a pundit wrote or spoke in the media somewhere. Facts are facts.
You can fast fwd to the last third of the video to see his position on drilling off the Florida coastline. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8fkbEuCQss
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME.
Mar 31st, 2010 (4:47 pm)I Nasaman, I envy you, I’m just in the middle of some microeconomic computations about BEV and EREVs in Europe (but they can be easily transposed to North America).
If the fiscal aspects of the thing do not pervert the whole picture, there will be more demand than expected because economic gains for the consumers (if they behave intelligently) may be be huge.
Thanks to you for having given us your first magnificent impression.
JC NPNS
Mar 31st, 2010 (4:58 pm)It is not like tag to be quiet, unless his computer crashes. So what is he up too? My *guess*, the Tonight Show with Jay Leno…
The Beauty of a Volt…
Peace & Quiet
Mar 31st, 2010 (5:01 pm)Many congratulations to all involved.
The Beauty of a Volt…
Peace
Mar 31st, 2010 (5:03 pm)Awesome news. The Volt is about to take on the world in just a few more months. I hope that GM is working hard on all their testing and tweaking in these last couple of months. They better make sure that the Volt isn’t going to have issues like the Prius has had.
I hope GM also has some of their best marketing and sales people working on the launch. I’d like to see GM have lots of advertising to let people know that the Volt is available, but don’t OVERDO it. Overkill is not good. I bet the car is going to be good enough that “word of mouth” alone is going to sell a lot of Volts in 2011.
I hope GM really has the ability to ramp up production fast because there could end up being a LOT of people on waiting lists. Those customers might not want to wait too long you know. Never know what the competition might put on the market while a customer is waiting for their Volt.
I think if GM prices it right, people are going to realize that the Volt is the best electric car to get vs. the Nissan Leaf, the Ford Focus electric, etc. A lot of people might not like living with the uncertainty of only 100 miles of electric range unless there are adequate quick chargers in their area. Volt owners won’t have to worry about that stuff … no matter where you drive your Volt.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (5:23 pm)I think drilling for domestic sourced oil is bad news, since the uninformed general public will look to this as some kind of answer to achieving lower gas prices or reducing our dependence on foreign oil sources.
The widely accepted answer is that offshore drilling, and even Alaskan drilling, if it were to be approved, will not even dent the price of a gallon or in any way reduce our strong dependency on foreign oil importation as it exists today.
It’s bad news for us who foresee a cleaner, more peaceful, quieter and less smog-ridden world of Electric cars EREVS and sustainable energy.
Further investigation online will find that today’s decision to allow ( 50 miles ) offshore drilling in several states was this administration’s carrot to the Republican party to gain it’s backing on future Cap & Trade legislation.
http://blogs.barrons.com/stockstowatchtoday/2010/03/31/obama-drills-baby-cap-and-trade-is-back/?mod=rss_BOLBlog
To quote Barack Obama in 2008 – ” These proposals ( John McCain and Republicans like Florida’s Crist to end the federal mandates on offshore drilling ) only worsen our addiction to oil and put off needed investment in clean, renewable energy ” ” It’s not the kind of change the American people are looking for ”
I did not say it. Obama did.
And it’s NOT the kind of change we need to see less dependence on foreign oil by Americans realizing how addicted we are outside sources of petroleum and how Big Oil controls American oil refinery output with the skill of a virtuoso violinist – to control prices and keep them high. It’s not the kind of change we need to see Americans buying Volts and hybrid cars, placing solar panels on their roofs to charge them, and bringing our Armies and Navies home from abroad.
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME.
Mar 31st, 2010 (5:31 pm)Really? But why? If that’s the case, I hope LG has a contingency plan…
Mar 31st, 2010 (5:38 pm)I hope he’s alright.
Mar 31st, 2010 (5:48 pm)#122
Works for me. I think that’s what happened to nasaman, LOL. +1
Mar 31st, 2010 (6:02 pm)Not this coming election. But the next one. And even for this election–it would help to have a date set up. No. It wouldn’t quiet the criticism. But it might sway some marginal voters. And that’s what elections are all about. I have no problem with the government holding onto GM for another couple of years. But there are a lot of people who do.
But the German government wasn’t giving them a choice. Why else would they have even contemplated the “sale” to Magna? Or the Saab sale. They weren’t getting any money for either of them. Bankruptcy should have let them liquidate if they wanted to. But they didn’t. There is a reason for that.
I’m sure GM tried to push. There is a reason they took so long to make the announcement. The German government refused. And, to be fair, they also have jobs at Daimler and Volkswagen to worry about. And everyone knows there’s overcapacity in the European market. Although that didn’t seem to phase them when it was the Russians doing the takeover. I think GM should have liquidated Opel. But they probably weren’t given that option.
GM does have the resources to announce more Volt production. But if you were them, why would you announce that? They want waiting lists. The more waiting lists, the more hype. The more hype, the more people are interested. It’s good marketing strategy.
Mar 31st, 2010 (6:03 pm)You will surely loose your bet if it doesn’t include an inflation clause. However, your thinking is flawed. First oil will still be much in demand for plastics, synthetics, and lubricants. Second easy oil is already running out and harder to get at oil will be increasingly expensive. Third, if everybody, including long haul trucks go battery power (as I believe it will happen), then all gas stations will go out of business. Gasoline will become a rare hard to get item for powering antique cars.
-10
Mar 31st, 2010 (6:12 pm)(click to show comment)
+4
Mar 31st, 2010 (6:21 pm)I’ve spoken to Tagamet. He is ALIVE!
Mar 31st, 2010 (6:46 pm)“Sneak Peak at the VOLT” is now on CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2010/03/31/dnt.chevy.volt.testdrive.cnn?hpt=T2
Unsure of when the video was shot but Lutz re-states VOLT will be about $40k and that GM will not make ANY money on the VOLT. He also said the VOLT makes sense when gas is $4 to $5.
I’m pretty disappointed in the video and the framing of the issue by CNN. But am still excited about the long term success of the VOLTEC platform and of EREV in general.
+7
Mar 31st, 2010 (6:49 pm)Yes, rumors of my demise have been (slightly) exaggerated (g). Sorry for the dearth of posts, but hit a rough patch of road that I hope will be in the rear-view mirror by mid April.
Please understand that I’d have posted by now if able. Lots to say about the ride.
BBS,
Be well,
Tagamet
PS The Hustler “theatre” didn’t open until 6 pm (g). I was home by then. Honest
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:03 pm)How can anyone make the statement that it takes longer to build a battery plant than an assembly plant? Where are the facts on that.
GM has been building batteries for as long as they have been in autos.
Delco may not be “manufacturing” batteries but they still merchandise them .
If the technology is available (it is) it is simply a process of spending the money to build the facility.
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:04 pm)Dan Petit’s test drive review definitely deserved a guest post !
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:12 pm)#141
One more time. Bob Lutz, LOL. 10-88. Next case.
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:15 pm)Now that was funny!
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:16 pm)Thanks for the CNN test drive video link. Contrary to DonC’s opinion, I’d have to say video TV and netvid reviews carry alot more weight than he may believe. It’s not a world where something has to be in print to be considered viable, anymore.
CNN has many viewers, so even though the “crack reporter” was truly trying to paint Mr. Lutz into a corner ( at whatever time this interview was done ? ), she failed in that, while Mr. Lutz quoted a then-believed price for Volt at $40,000 and no government subsidy was mentioned – still the very last PUNCH of the piece was this woman looking at the dash readout saying she just got 968 miles per gallon and the unabated reaction that came to her face! LOL. I think that’s the lasting message many will take from it, but admittedly the $40k price proclamation will be quoted by the masses until we learn it’s true MSRP.
I was wondering why several of the people who said they wouldn’t be able to make the test drive on the day Lyle posted the contest actually did, but for the extensive reasons they gave why they would not be able to participate. My guess is the allure of real contact with our beloved Volt was just too strong! …Glad to see Tag is truly ok after his test drive in NYC! Let’s all pray collectively that his rough patch of road smoothes out sooner than later!
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME.
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:19 pm)I hope he is ok also. This is VERY strange for Tag to be sans post.
Come on Tag, a little ping will make us feel better.
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:21 pm)Ok, I just saw the post. Whewwww…..had me worried.
Welcome back Tag.
Mar 31st, 2010 (7:26 pm)Sounds to me like you made a wise bet, since you will never have to pay off, and you can only win or “die”
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:05 pm)Welcome back guy! Can’t wait to hear more about the butterfly breadth or whatever you were talking about!
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:11 pm)While I would have appreciated a guest post, the truth is that us techs write a lot better when we have the context or “flavor” of what is already present on the minds of those that post. The first fifty or so posts set the tone and detail theme, and then, if there is something that can be contributed based on questions or comments, then that is when I happen to write best.
Also, I thought it important to let other test drivers have their say on their day.
The effect of the Volt drive on me has validated many dozens of things regarding electrification.
Just that one drive has let me be content that GM is so
*********vastly********
ahead of all other OEM’s.
The only OEM that is in really serious marketing trouble, from how I see it, is Ford Motor.
Not that I would want them to be in such a position, but, if they really are doing something more serious than I currently understand that they are, then now would be the time for them to attempt to share.
The only thing I ever saw on the TV regarding Ford Motor, is that when one of their vehicles was being advertised, there was this square “EV” button that was being pressed.
You just do not do that sort of thing without some credible descriptions of what that “EV” button stands for, and, more importantly, what their credible plans are if we are to be shown an “EV” button on a dash.
In any case, my workload is so full nowadays, I have to speed read lots of the thread to see if there is anything I could really help with a comment.
I think it’s also really impressive how the thread has sharpened the technical focus as the Volt comes closer and closer to our driveways. You will all most certainly fall in love with your Volts. (And, I do mean *all* readers and posters here. LOL.) (The very biggest laughs for us all will be when the biggest naysayers say they were wrong! And, we will all be just as happy for them too.)
+2
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:27 pm)Anyone see the price of gas today? Projections are $100 per barrel by Christmas. Volt demand is there. Hope they build many – many – many.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:37 pm)A markid change in your avatar. Now that is one cool cat!
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:39 pm)Hope all will be well… Cats ok?
If you took their pics down because of some comment… well…
don’t take this the wrong way, but they’re much cuter than you :p
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:43 pm)That wasn’t my point. My point was that when two journalists are chatting somewhat informally it’s unnatural to judge the conversation by the same standard which you’d apply to a formal written work. IOW I thought you were being harsh.
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:45 pm)Wow it is RED! Hope to see more of it.
Glad Tag is OK, hope to hear more from him.
The Beauty of a Volt…
Peace
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:45 pm)Remember when Mythbusters looked into this one possibility?
> http://green.autoblog.com/2009/10/22/video-mythbusters-test-golf-ball-like-dimpling-effect-on-fuel-e/
I’d be interested in seeing what you’ve got…
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:48 pm)Well the Transit Connect EV launches this year and they probably have the most successful hybrid program after Toyota.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:57 pm)If these are among the worst possible problems that can possibly be dreamt up, problems so seemingly banal…
Game over >> Volt enters the winner’s circle.
Mar 31st, 2010 (8:58 pm)That WSJ Video is slow to load on My computer, however the Volt Monkey was in the Video. Cool! I could not tell if it was a two-mode transmission.
I was bit disappointed to see exposed lug nuts. Why no hub caps these days?
The Beauty of a Volt…
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:25 pm)It may or may not be an option as Saprilla enumerated. If it is an option, it will most likely be an even worse option in the future than it is today. If creating battery cell capacity were easy or quick, then I would expect LG to start production here by the end of this year or at least 2011. Their plan is 2012. That kind of shows the timeframes. GM has clearly committed to a max of 60K Volt sized packs for the near term. To ramp up significantly beyond that looks like a 2 year lead time.
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:30 pm)Another sneak peak test drive. The GM rep in the video says 300 miles combined on a full charge and full tank of gas. http://www.fastcompany.com/1600732/test-driving-the-chevy-volt
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (9:55 pm)Ah yes, the scenic Pier 92 …
I was extremely bummed out to have missed you. Are you sure you weren’t just trying to avoid giving me free Psychiatric advice?
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:06 pm)Any way we can do a post on the test drives by our Volt clan?
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:16 pm)Alas, the red one was a Cruze.
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:24 pm)You are right, thought it looked a little different.
Picture about halfway down.
http://chevrolet.posterous.com/
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:29 pm)I will post something in the forums, the Design forum seems appropriate.
Mar 31st, 2010 (10:47 pm)Well, that’s cool. It’s nice to hear the update. I’m not sure what that really means from a practical standpoint, but it’s good that the new factory is working.
Speaking of which, for those of you who missed the National Geographic episode of Ultimate Factories last week on the Volt factory, it airs again tomorrow. April 1st, and that’s no joke.
Mar 31st, 2010 (11:01 pm)Gm better WAKE UP QUICK, and release there car before they loose a majority of sales to the cheaper all electric Nissan which i believe comes out in December!
Mar 31st, 2010 (11:31 pm)Put down a deposit today. Dealer said “maybe December” Here in N Calif.
+1
Mar 31st, 2010 (11:39 pm)Forgive the newbie post. I’ve been lurking in the shadows for the last couple of years, reading post after post and getting excited about the upcoming release of the Volt. I realize this is seriously off-topic, but I really wanted to know how one posts as a regular poster (complete with avatar) rather than a guest poster. I’ve applied to the forums, but I don’t think that is the same thing.
Anyway, I wanted to say hello to everybody. I hope to own a Volt oneday, should my finances allow it. It looks to be a sweet car, and the green aspects of it would merely be a positive bonus for me. As much as I love my Fit, when I get more paid down on it, and I can afford the change, I will happily trade it for a Volt!
Mar 31st, 2010 (11:59 pm)Don’t forget about the electric Focus.
Gas here in Chile is 635 Chilean dollars per liter. Doing the rough math in my head that’s about $5 US per gallon. It was pretty much the same in Argentina last week. I really see a market for the Volt down here. On a side note, today I walked thru a Chevy dealer lot and drueled over some Cruze’s.
Apr 1st, 2010 (12:10 am)Welcome Krahnos. Glad you decided to weigh in as all opinions are generally honored on this site and many of us at times agree to disagree. All the while we are most all, VoltNation – a band of brothers and sisters who are just plain excited about the possibility of America leading the way to cleaner air to breathe and less turmoil on Earth based upon a deep ending our deep dependency on fossil fuels – especially, as for this site, in transportation. I hope you added yourself to the unofficial waiting list Lyle organized on this site.
There’s no point in which one becomes an official poster here — in fact, I also “lurked in the shadows” here alot, since ’07 – only posting here and there, every few weeks or so. Nobody knew who I was, which was sometimes an advantage to getting my opinon across…lol.
Just write your posts in the lower box and be sure to add your email address which Lyle does not use for any marketing or record-keeping purpose. As for your avatar, I cheated, and just clicked on someone else’s avatar which brought me to Gravatar.com where I read how to proceed in making avatars that will follow me if I wish to post at any site – I actually selected quite a few choices, and bang, the current one just shows up automatically when I post – that’s all there is to it?
Hope to see you here often. The more the merrier, your opinion is always appreciated and ( hopefully ) treated with respect. There is alot of dignity on this site (rare), which is precisely why I opted, like you, to start posting here myself.
Cheers!
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME.
Apr 1st, 2010 (12:11 am)
Apr 1st, 2010 (12:22 am)Thanks James! It’s exciting to live in these times, when America once again has the opportunity to lead in technological advancements. I, like many others, have written off American automobile engineering as garbage that falls apart after a couple of years, and to only purchase Japanese products. It’s as if my generation has been conditioned to only accept the Rising Sun as the ultimate in anything from entertainment to electronics, to cars. It heartens me to know that there are those in America that are working to turn things around, and I know that my next car will be American engineered and made.
I’m still on the sidelines as it were. I cannot afford to be an early adopter, but I am hoping that by 2013 there will still be some government subsidies left and I can afford to trade to a car as advanced as the Volt, and move up from my Honda Fit. I’ll try to be active in these forums, since I read them on a daily basis, even though I ask myself sometimes why I bother ^_^.
Thank you, James, for your warm welcome!
Apr 1st, 2010 (1:46 am)Welcome Krahnos.
I also drive a Fit, which is a fine little car for what it is; having been among those fortunate enough to drive the prototype Volt, I can tell you that there is NO COMPARISON! The Volt is the best handling, most sure-footed car I ever drove.
It is scary quiet at all speeds I was able to achieve on the small course, and regardless of acceleration (which can be very considerable in “Sport” mode). As a longtime fan of Classical music, I can hardly wait to hear soft passages without cranking up the volume.
Lyle is collecting reports from all of us, and I expect these will appear several to a post. I don’t want to give too much away now, but when appropriate I have more pictures, videos and impressions to share.
Apr 1st, 2010 (1:50 am)NASA-Eng ##3,
I too have been saying that for years. mostly to deaf, dumb, and blind people who think gasoline prices can only go up. (Just like house prices!)
Even though the evidence is that there are decadal OIL PRICE SPIKES, that are self correcting. There are not enduring overall oil price rises, except for the first OPEC oil disruption which established their dominance, one which resulted in the gas lines we all remember.
The oil price SPIKES, create a global recession which reduces demand, and after a few months prices generally collapse to about where they were. Except that the urge to find substitutes is increased. Over forty years we have gotten much closer.
Cars ahve gotten smaller, and more fuel economical. But that does not remove the need for petroleum. Synthetic substitutes for oil have been developed. After all what is bio-fuel but synthetic manufactured fuel? And that has grown to about 10-15% of the world’s supply.
Conversions of other fossil fuels like Coal-to-Liquid, CTL, and Gas-to-Liquid GTL, have made solid and liquid bases into liquid oil. More oil was looked for and found.
But none were as final as the arrival of the electric car era. The Saudis’ feel threatened and well they should. They are the low cost producers but the price of oil is so inflated, and so far removed from the basic cost of production that it makes it economic for these other sources of supply to evolve into profitable sources, and claim market share.
There are literally thousands of years of oil left, and soon the world will want a whole lot less of it, at anywhere near current prices.
So OIL PRICES will eventually UN-SPIKE and collapse. Your estimate is likely correct. It is possible we may have another OIL PRICE SPIKE with the next 3-5 years; but it wiil be the dying gasp of the OIL Cartel dynosaur. Most likely we have seen the last gasp already early last year.
Most definitely in 10 years or so, the UNSPIKE will have occurred.
+1
Apr 1st, 2010 (2:14 am)LauraM, I really like your posts and usually give them a +1 as they are thoughtful and informative. However I have small disagreements with a couple of points to-day.
About GM not selling Opel, I could only believe GM was pressured by the government to put Opel on the block to start with. It was bad enough that they had to drop Oldsmobile a few years ago, then Pontiac and Saturn during bankruptcy. But these losses could be somewhat mitigated by trying to move loyal customers to the remaining brands. They have no such option in Europe, losing Opel would essentially mean giving up on the European market, which would have been a disaster.
Expanding battery production. Certainly setting up a new facility as is being done takes a lot of planning and time, but expanding on what is already built is far easier. However there are risks that are very hard to evaluate. The battery industry is in a state of rapid evolution, and I am sure GM is continuing to evaluate new chemistries and processes as they appear. First, I believe that the new plant is owned by LG, not GM so GM’s roll is in the committed orders to LG. LG then decides if they want expand the plant already on the way or import more from Korea. Gm could even decide to buy batteries from A123 if LG cannot meet demand. I think GM has been very smart not to get into manufacturing their own batteries at this time, and should be able to ramp up their packaging plant quickly if required. Meanwhile they will prepare for the next generation in battery technology. Given the uncertainties in the market and the possibilities in battery tech, I would think that GM would put off any further major investment as long as possible.
Apr 1st, 2010 (11:28 am)GM needed to drop Oldsmobile. Even though it cost over a billion dollars, it was one of the best decisions Rick Wagoner ever made. If he had had the nerve to drop Pontiac, Saturn, and Hummer, he might have been able to rescue GM without government help. (Although I personally think that that would have been just delaying the inevitable–the legacy costs were just too big.). But they were losing money on all three brands.
I agree that GM wanted to keep Opel. For access to the European market. For the design studio, etc. Even though it’s now losing more money than their North American operations. I even said that in past #113. But given the choice between “selling” it for no money and giving away technology in the process, or liquidation, I think they would have been better of with liquidation. But they weren’t allowed to do that. Which is why the German government won the standoff.
But as American, I think it’s unfair that the US taxpayer had to support the overcapacity in Germany in order to keep GM viable. The German government should have done that.
I agree again. My main point about the batteries was that I hope LG’s low capacity won’t limit GM’s ability to add capacity with the Volt. I would love A123 to get to produce the extra cells. (Preferably in their new Michigan facility.) But I’m not sure A123 would have them ready in time if GM needs to ramp up production. And I’m not sure if their cells would work in the battery pack GM developed with the LG cells.
Apr 1st, 2010 (12:25 pm)As to the why, I don’t know – I’d only be guessing, but perhaps the production facilities for these kinds of batteries are more akin to semiconductor production than making metal parts? Its expensive, absolutely clean inside and takes a long time to build.
As far as LG having a contingency plan – it would be GM that needs the contingency plan, their the ones that work with LG to make sure they have enough capacity to come online when they’ll need it.
Another example here is Ford. After they released their Escape Hybrid and before Bill Ford Jr. stepped down as CEO, they wanted to make and sell alot of them – however they couldn’t increase production capacity because they couldn’t get increased battery production capacity and I believe it was close to 2 years of wanting to do that.
At some point Bill Ford Jr. stepped down and the new executive suite decided to not try to sell to demand with their Escape Hybrid – they’d sell 25,000 a year no matter the demand and that’s what they did (to this day still even though demand is higher). The Fusion Hybrid is only 25,000 a year as well I believe. They’re essentially very good PR campaigns for Ford. After a couple of years Ford publicly said they could get more batteries to sell more Escape Hybrids but didn’t want to since they could make more on the regular Escape’s that rolled down the same production line (the calculation the new management made).
But to get back to the main point, Ford and Toyota have both run into issues regarding not being able to spool battery production up limiting them from increasing associated vehicle production (essentially until a new factory is made, which takes a couple of years, to give them that capacity). They both expected to rev up capacity like have with their regular vehicles in the past and were surprised when they couldn’t.
Now admittedly this was with Nickel Metal Hydride battery production and maybe Li will be different, but I wouldn’t bet on that at all. If GM wants to be in this, they need to be mapping increased production out ASAP – the game all changed earlier this week, GM is the only other manufacturer that has a chance to really compete with Nissan early on (from a production level standpoint), now we’ll get to see if they are going to try to (I think Wangoner would have done it, but I don’t have a feel for the current top executive – the decision will probably feel very risky).
Apr 1st, 2010 (1:03 pm)Really? Bill Ford is a dedicated environmentalist. And he’s still chairman of the board. So that surprises me. Besides, if demand exceeds supply, and they don’t want to make them because the margin isn’t that great–there’s a simple solution–raise the price.
I hope he will too. They have to know at this point that there’s a lot of demand for this car.
Apr 1st, 2010 (1:33 pm)Yeah, the reason for the Ford decision was that Bill Ford Jr. was basically forced out of the CEO position because they weren’t making money at the time and somebody else more profit only focused put in. Bill Ford Jr. is still Chairman of the Board, but lost alot of the power to change things when he was forced out of the CEO spot.
My only fear with GM is that the new leadership will be too focused on the shorter term profit view of things (profits admittedly won’t be big on the Volt for quite a while, even with alot of scale) and miss the vision part (i.e. where they’ll be in 5-10 years if they just let Nissan go by itself and take over the EV market like Toyota did with the Prius in the Hybrid market).
I am sure you’re right, I’m sure they know there will be alot of demand – but its the shorter term (shorter sighted?) profit thing that often makes decisions with these guys (and why the EV1 was cut back before it was even put into production).
Apr 1st, 2010 (3:52 pm)I didn’t know he was forced out. I thought he left voluntarily since he wasn’t doing a very good job of, well, managing. From all reports, he’s just “too nice.” And nobody listened to him. Or took him seriously. I’m pretty sure he was the one who picked Mulally…
Ford wasn’t just losing money though. They were on the verge of bankruptcy. And Alan Mulally’s done an amazing job of a turnaround. And actually keeping Ford in business. I have to give him credit for that. It’s too bad about the Ford hybrids though. (Although I haven’t heard of any major waiting lists.) You’d think the gas crisis would have changed his mind…
Profits might not be big, but as long as they’re cash flow positive, GM would be well advised to make as many as they can. I doubt they’re stealing sales from any other GM models. As far as the EV1–it would have cost them billions, and it would have been a decade before they caught on due to higher gas prices. Sometimes you have to look at fiscal reality.
Apr 1st, 2010 (6:28 pm)Good progress. Most admirable is the adherence to a time line goal. This is exactly what GM has promised to do throughout the Volt production process – and they have met those promises so far. In the face of economic stress, naysayers, new technology, doubters and adversarial public – this company has not faltered in their course to introducing the world’s first ER-EV automobile.
Congratulations to the entire company for sticking with the program through the thin and the VERY thin… You guys are doing great things. Thank you.
Apr 1st, 2010 (8:09 pm)Selling the first few hundred or so Volts to the government, is exactly what GM needs to do.
It’s been said that giving these to the government first will put them in a situation to get abused. Then, create a bad rep by the drivers, which could potentially harm sales in the private market. Well, this is true, and is actually a very good thing.
Think about it. In order to finalize the best product possible, GM needs to put it in the hands of the most abusive and incompetent people on Earth. Our Government.
The obvious abuse and lack of care the government workers will give them, will inevitibly be the best feedback to recieve in order to build a car that can take the normal day to day driving of the average American who treats there own property like garbage. If the Volt can withstand the US Government, it’ll be a success in real life for the rest of us.
It’s not much unlike the HUMVEE. As ex-military, I can honestly say, if it can withstand the abuse of a bunch of young testosterone driven video game addicts, racing through the Iraqi desert… well, you get my point.
Apr 1st, 2010 (9:16 pm)I just posted some info in the Design Forum.
Apr 1st, 2010 (10:25 pm)A123′s nanophosphate batteries are a different chemistry than LG’s polymer manganese, and certainly would not be a drop-in replacement. However GM did spend a lot of time evaluating them and performance would be close to equal, so I do not think it would be a big engineering exercise for GM to bring out packs with A123′s version. A123 is building its Michigan factory largely on government money without a clear sales case. They are hoping that if they have the batteries, then they can sell them, so I think they will be in an excellent position to sell batteries to GM.
Apr 1st, 2010 (11:41 pm)Yes, there is a bit of a “bubble” here. Read the comments on test drives posted on other websites and you’ll find all sorts of aggravating and ignorant statements. Paraphrasing a number of comments, “this is a car only the super rich can afford to buy”, “40 mile range is a joke, they should triple that and sell it under $10k”, “no resale value – who’d want to buy a 3 yr old car and have to spend $5k for new batteries?”, “these are worse polluters than gas engines because they run on coal”, “electricity is more expensive than gas”, and of course knee-jerk Obama/GM bailout/rebate tirades. I’m afraid the amount of ignorance based on preconceived ideas (most are unfavorable) about electric cars will take time, and marketing to overcome. A surge in gas prices would help too – not that I’m wishing for it. That’ll happen all by itself.