In January, GM unveiled its new flagship Cadillac luxury sedan, called the XTS. It was shown as a plug-in hybrid concept mating a 3.5 L V-6 engine to GMs’ 2-mode plugin hybrid drivetrain. This drivetrain has been under development since 2006 and is functioning well in prototypes, including one this author test drove. It includes an 8 kw lithium-ion battery and the potential to travel 20 miles up to in EV mode when fully charged.
Recently, inside reports confirmed by Bob Lutz indicated that GM’s first electric Caddy concept, the Converj, had been cancelled. The Converj was a stylish but compact 4 seater that relied on an amped-up Voltec drivetrain, similar to the Volt’s, for up to 40 miles electric driving.
According to new reports citing inside sources the plugin XTS has been greenlighted for production.
Apparently GM’s rationale for killing the Converj and approving the plugin XTS is simple, profit.
It is speculated that GM will not make money on early units of the Chevy Volt, and may sell them at a loss. The new technology may be too expensive to allow the cars to be sold affordably for profit. The same would be true for the Converj. Furthermore, it is reported that GM isn’t sure there is enough global demand for 3 Voltec vehicles; Volt, Ampera, and Converj.
The 2-mode plugin drivetrain has half the battery expense and is built off the 2-mode hybrid system already in production. It could appeal to the luxury-green crowd much as competitors such as the Mercedes plugin S class, slated for production, and be profitable.
Also it would have been a difficult engineering challenge for GM to give the Converj the power and smoothness expected of a luxury Cadillac using the Voltec propulsion system. The 2-mode drivetrain can utilize the gas engine when high power is required.
Source (MotorTrend)
This entry was posted on Tuesday, March 30th, 2010 at 7:02 am and is filed under Cadillac, Converj, PHEV, Voltec. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+5
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:11 am)“Furthermore, it is reported that GM isn’t sure there is enough global demand for 3 Voltec vehicles; Volt, Ampera, and Converj.”
Say it isn’t so.
If they can get the economics right, I think there will be plenty of global demand — especially if the EVs that will be coming to market about the same time don’t catch on for whatever reason, be it cost, range anxiety, long charging time, failure to deliver specified range or something unforeseen.
+6
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:16 am)I own a 2004 Cadillac Deville. It is the best car I have ever owned. The XTS is the one I want to replace it when the time comes.
But my car has many more years and lots more mile to go, so it might be a while. Maybe for retirement.
That is one sweeet looking car by the way. GM knows how to style automobiles.
+7
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:21 am)“Also it would have been a difficult engineering challenge for GM to give the Converj the power and smoothness expected of a luxury Cadillac using the Voltec propulsion system. The 2-mode drivetrain can utilize the gas engine when high power is required.”
Hmmm? Am i the only one who thinks this statement does not make a lot of sense?
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:23 am)Its about time.. very nicely written article, good summing up of the issues. This will work if GM ONLY offers it with the 2 Mode plug-in transmission.. larger/cheaper battery packs can always be added later.. perhaps make the pack size optional?
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:24 am)I believe this is the big market for GM.
Truly Voltec is the ultimate in fuel efficiency, however, it does seem somewhat limited to smaller vehicles. I see this plug-in 2-mode being used in larger cars, trucks, and SUV’s (RWD option for large trucks and SUV’s).
So GM uses the same cells as the Volt pack (in fact, it’s a 1/2 sized Volt pack). The power electronics are identical to the Volt (see Lyle’s test drive of the plug-in Vue). And the Volt’s drivetrain is a derivative of the 2-mode. All this commonality leads to lower cost manufacturing.
The other advantage for this arrangement is performance. Although the Volt has good performance, it is a small car. The XTS with Voltec may be somewhat underpowered. With the 3.6L engine combined with electric motor, the potential power is 375 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque. Yet with up to 20 miles AER, driving 40 miles per day, estimating 40 mpg hwy, this car could receive an EPA sticker of 80 mpg!
Not to mention, the XTS is truly a beautiful car!
+2
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:24 am)From Gas friendly to gas free…….
Good plan GM, different strokes for different folks….
I’m happy the Volt is almost here and this seems to be the dawn of the electrification of the automobile, but i don’t think GM should go “all in” on the Voltec powertrain for every car either.
+3
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:27 am)The statement “It includes an 8 kw lithium-ion battery” indicates a power output of 8kw (analogous to the horsepower output of a combustion engine automobile) where as I believe it was meant to infer an energy capacity of 8kwh (analogous to the fuel tank capacity of a combustion engine automobile). Just a pet peave of mine.
Hope this helps to avoid confusion for those reading the article.
Have a super day!
P.S.
This is found throughout most journalism (that report on battery specifications, anyway) and makes it difficult to discern what the true specifications of the product are.
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:28 am)Its an issue with the batteries, apparently they are limited to an output of around 150hp.. and if you halve the pack capacity you also halve the power output down to 75hp.. thus you use the 2 Mode transmission in which the engine can directly power the wheels along with the electric motors. Better batteries are available, probably not tested enough to suit GM production quality standards.
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:28 am)I’m very happy to see the Plug-in Cadillac XTS going to production. Great looking car and great idea to implement. Although I still part ways with GM over the killing of the Converj. They never gave the car a chance. They had the drivetrain already engineered. Need more power? Then either add cells to the pack or advertise a lower AER like 20 miles (that is what the XTS is achieving and that is called acceptable). I also struggle to understand how they could lose money on the Converj when it won’t be providing a larger battery pack than the Volt? Someone needs to reconcile that for me.
I guess we can only hope GM has something better in mind than the Converj.
+4
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:33 am)The problem with a 20 mile hybrid on an upscale model is buyers won’t (IMHO) bother themselves with actually plugging it in. 40 miles makes sense, 20 miles doesn’t really. This is why I suspect the plug-in Prius will also be a big fail.
40 mile Converj was a better idea.
+4
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:44 am)I know right? I have to believe there is enough demand for three Voltec vehicles globally, especially if they market it properly! Why is GM so pessimistic about their own products?
join thE REVolution
+2
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:48 am)I disagree, 20 miles can still be quite useful. On Thursday I am moving to CA and my commute is going to be around 20 miles (plus or minus 2 on the route). I have no problem with plugging in every night for my 20 mile commute. With the Volt at 40 miles I will still plug in every night. Not much difference for me, the real downside is that I will be using gas in the XTS, if I could go electric only until I get low on battery then I’d be thrilled with it.
+4
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:53 am)Count me as one of the confused. How would it not be economically feasible to sell a more expensive vehicle with the same drivetrain? Couldn’t the price be raised high enough for the “luxury” status to turn a (small) profit on the system? If they needed more power, why not put in a larger engine and adjust the software limits to give more grunt in EV mode? I can see where they might want to re-tune some aspects of the drivetrain, but how could that make it so much more expensive that it isn’t worth the investment?
I think 2-mode is a fine system but it is very bulky… and doesn’t have the expansive potential that Voltec does. I was really hoping to see GM push hard to incorporate Voltec across most of their lineup but it sure looks like they are content to compartmentalize it. I applaud their effort to make the tech accessible to the average customer (though I’m not sure how > $30K vehicles really manage that goal) but they really should do what they can to get it into the hands of customers who can foot the actual cost of the system.
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:56 am)While you might be willing to plug in your car every night, I am willing to wager (figuratively speaking) that the majority of actually XTS-buying people aren’t.
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:59 am)Plug-in laziness can be solved with an automatic wireless power recharging scheme.. there are already companies talking about selling these systems for the coming BEVs.
The plug-in premium for the XTS will be less than $10k (my guess), will buyers go for it?. Over at the engineering forum we think the cost of the 2 Mode transmission is close to the cost of a 6 speed automatic transmission.. but you have to add the cost of the battery and control electronics to the total. About $6k for the cells and the rest for the packaging and electronics.
-2
Mar 30th, 2010 (8:03 am)I agree with drivin98, 20 miles AER is not impressive. That’s only 10 miles round-trip. After 20 minutes, you’re using gas again. Cmon, Chevy – if you want to make a caddie, don’t go cheap. Oh well, back to back to bankruptcy court for GM.
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (8:09 am)I like this new hybrid Cadillac. I’m still wondering about the 2 mode Saturn Vue concept – does GM still plan to build a small 2 mode SUV? Let’s get on with the electrification of autos!!!
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (8:16 am)Not sure I understand GM’s logic in continuing the two mode model when you’re pouring so much dough into the Voltec system. I say time to drop the two mode & go right for the series. Baby steps are for children!
I want my series hybrid Hummer/ Pickup etc. Something I can actually use. Maybe even convert my 09 GMC one ton crew cab pickup!
Mar 30th, 2010 (8:29 am)I found this link, pertaining to the XTS, as well:
http://gas2.org/2010/03/26/gm-working-on-twin-turbo-v6-for-upcoming-cadillac-xts/
Apparently, GM is working on a 3.0L Twin-Turbo V6 engine for the XTS, as well. This engine could produce up to 435 horsepower AND have greater fuel economy than Ford’s 3.5L EcoBoost in the Taurus SHO (365 hp).
What if they manage 435 HP and 30 MPG HWY???? THAT WOULD BE AMAZING!!!!!
Anyway, this is great news! I created a fan group on Facebook (“Cadillac XTS Fans”) and it has generated modest interest. I am glad that GM is building this car!
+3
Mar 30th, 2010 (8:35 am)If unemployment was not approaching 17% in many states of the country, they would happily build them all.
-1
Mar 30th, 2010 (8:45 am)Not necessarily true. You can halve the storage capacity and still have the same output rate. The issue is that it’s not enough HP for a Caddy.
I drove a 300 Chrysler 3.6HO for the first time this weekend. Maybe V-8 is no longer needed. That puppy had some power for a 4000+ car with a V-6.
+3
Mar 30th, 2010 (8:55 am)I think you have it wrong. If anyone bothers to buy a plug in hybrid vehicle, no matter how much electric range it gets they will damn sure plug it in every night. They have self-selected themselves as willing plug-in customers simply because they were willing to pay more to buy the plug-in. They will not be forgetting. Plus their On-star, i-phone capable car might just be calling them up to remind them if they forget to plug in when they get home at night!!
Mar 30th, 2010 (9:04 am)Not so if you use the same cells the Volt is using. Perhaps GM will use different cells. I reality we dont have the specs on the LG cells, its all guessing.
Mar 30th, 2010 (9:32 am)A very cool Caddy! The more plug-ins the better.
+2
Mar 30th, 2010 (9:37 am)The XTS seems like a great car if it has a plug. Otherwise it will be something of an also ran to the new stuff that Audi is coming out with. Cadillac has improved its lineup but it still has some work to do. The plug would help a great deal.
I’m not completely convinced by the reasons for killing the Converj. I get why adding “amenities” might pork it out so much as to make the performance less that what the brand wants to stand behind. The Volt performance would already be borderline by this standard. But the cost argument doesn’t strike me as compelling. Cost is a function of volume. If you limit production, or don’t move a drive train to several platforms, then the cost will always be “too high”. It’s sort of a chicken and egg problem. Volume is low so costs are high. Costs are high so volume is low. The only way to really break the cycle is to do what Nissan is doing with EVs — go for it. GM is playing with other peoples money — our money. I’d like to see them be more aggressive on the EV side rather than go back to the cautious approach which ended in bankruptcy.
Hopefully the perceived need for an IPO is not driving these decisions. If so then the results will be disappointing.
Mar 30th, 2010 (9:43 am)Putting the Converj aside, now we know where GM is taking the Saturn Vue 2-mode technology that they already developed and nearly had in production (Saturn Vue 2-mode) – and thank goodness they didn’t just decide to bury it after they spent all that money developing and killing it at the last moment when Saturn was cut.
It seems like a good application of the 2-mode, and since its suitable for larger vehicles (than Volt size) lets hope they put it in a small SUV (Buick Enclave and/or Equinox are screaming for this) as well so GM could be a market leader there too.
All that said, GM is crazy for not having a Cadillac 2 seat premium sports/convertable using Voltec as the base (same class as those Mercedes 2 seaters). I have a feeling GM will start spreading the Voltec around as we get into Generation 2 and beyond, when they can hopefully start making some money on this stuff.
Mar 30th, 2010 (9:51 am)You are assuming the cells determine the maximum amps delivered, and that is not true, at least until they are right at their current output limit. The load on the motor determines the amp draw. So, for example, you could have a battery capable of delivering 100 amps, but the car only draws 50 amps under the hardest acceleration. As long as this is true the battery can be cut in half and only the range will suffer. I am sure the Volt batteries are way under-stressed in terms of current draw. If we knew the series/parallel arrangement of the battery we could figure all this out.
In electric model airplane terms (what I am used to), the propeller determines the amp draw. Going to a larger or smaller capacity battery has no effect on the amps UNLESS the battery becomes small enough to become the limiting factor. A power system where the battery is the limiting factor would be a very poor design.
Back on-topic, I just can’t get excited about Caddies in general, but that is just me. Different strokes, and all…
Mar 30th, 2010 (9:56 am)What is the point?
Vehicles that are low-volume and extremely expensive are not what an automaker attempting to recover from bankruptcy should be pursuing. What business gain is there beyond halo, which does nothing to help with the upcoming MPG requirements.
Vehicles an automaker can sell a lot of at a reasonable profit should be the goal. How does this technology configured for a large & powerful vehicle achieve that?
Mar 30th, 2010 (9:56 am)I think the point is that they can’t get the economics right, so it was the end of the internal conversation.
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:05 am)Leaf pricing is out:
$32,780…$25,280 with incentives.
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:06 am)…and orders open April 20
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:09 am)WOW! That’s a MUCH better price than the $40K in Japan. That was starting to scare me, LOL!
Now GM should undercut them and price the Volt at $29,995 (22,495 after tax credits)!
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:09 am)Herm is onto something that may be too subtle for many of us at first go around. Battery cells can be connected together in series or in parallel or in a combination. If cells are connected in parallel, then any cells added simply add to range (capacity). But if cells are added in series then the power output is increased. If the Volt requires all 288 cells to be in series to get enough power to drive the traction motor, then cutting the number of cells in half does not cut the range, just the power available. I just assumed (silly me) that most of the cells were arranged in a parallel fashion with the power electronics converting the voltage to whatever was needed. That may not be the case. If that is the case then it is not at all easy to change the range of the Volt because it would have to come in increments of 40 miles AER, a big granularity. The technology may be more limited than what it seems. The Volt may simply be highly optimized for one application. I hope that is not the case though.
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:10 am)Ditty from the site:
Nissan LEAF™ pricing
The Nissan LEAF will be available for purchase or lease in select markets this December. Later this spring, Nissan will begin accepting reservations at NissanUSA.com. For complete details, read the recent pricing announcement.
Read the complete announcement
Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP)
After tax savings, net as low as $25,2801
MSRP $32,7802 with Federal tax savings from $0 to $7,5003
MSRP includes three years of complimentary roadside assistance.
State and local incentives may further decrease the cost4:
$5,000 statewide rebate in California
$5,000 tax credit in Georgia
$1,500 tax credit in Oregon
Carpool-lane access in some states, including California
Lease Offer
$349 per month1 for 36 months after $1,999 initial payment
Trim Levels
The Nissan LEAF™ will have two trim levels available: the SV and the SL.
The SV trim level includes an advanced navigation system and Internet/smart phone connectivity to the vehicle.
The SL trim level adds several convenience features, including rearview monitor, solar panel spoiler, fog lights, and automatic headlights for an additional $940 (MSRP).
Charging Dock Cost
Nissan has announced it will be offering personal charging docks, which operate on a 220-volt supply, in tandem with the purchase process. Nissan is providing these home-charging stations, which will be built and installed by AeroVironment, as part of a one-stop shopping process that includes a home assessment and installation of the dock. The average cost for the home charger plus installation will be $2,200. Chargers and installation will be eligible for a 50 percent federal tax credit up to $2,0005.
Exclusive Offer
The Nissan LEAF™ is the sole vehicle available through The EV Project, led by EV infrastructure provider eTec. As part of this program, eTec will be providing free home charging stations and installation for up to 4,700 Nissan LEAF™ owners6.
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/pricing.jsp?intcmp=Princing_Details.EV_Micro.Home.P2.Leaf.
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:11 am)Except for the grill, the rest of the car looks great. I just don’t get the retro grills GM has been putting on cars since 2000.
The ‘vette is the only GM car that has maintained NO GRILL and I love it.
I owned a 91 Trans Am with NO GRILL and also loved it … very sleek.
If GM made the new Camaro with NO GRILL I’d buy one in a flash.
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:11 am)- 10 times (or more) profit per unit
- 1/10 the transportation overhead
- 1/10 the sales overhead
- 80 Mpg seems pretty good
Just because Hyundai does low-profit-high-volume sales does not mean that every car maker needs to follow their business model. Cadillac competes in a lower-volume higher-profit world.
I don’t see this as a halo car. It’s a direct replacement for DTS.
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:13 am)Yahoo advertisement:
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/?dcn=1&dcp=omd.47299074.&dcc=36098632.223563682
MSRP 32780 after tax credit. The same as Volt’s speculated price?
PS. I’ve been in the exploded Moscow station just a week ago at about explosion time. Oh my… How sad that you guys support that terrorists by calling them “freedom fighters” or “separatists” (c) AP. You look so reasonable in other cases…
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:15 am)I will not be in line …..I have range anxiety.
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:15 am)statik
oops, you were faster
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:17 am)in #33, an EE will correct me in that adding cells in parallel DOES also increase the power available, because the amperage can increase, the internal resistance decreases, etc. When adding cells in series, the voltages are added together and the amperage rating will stay the same, but the power available will increase. What I was getting at is that to get more power to the traction motor the voltage is what acts as the throttle even though it is voltage times amperage that is power delivered. The battery pack may be inherently designed such that a large number of cells are required just to deliver the needed power to the traction motor.
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:18 am)It still cracks me up that an Internet squatter is sitting on Nissan.com. Lol.
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:21 am)I have no life, lol. That and I have been waiting for a looooong time for pricing on a EV you can actually ‘buy and have serviced locally with four seats’
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:24 am)Came to post this info and Statik beat me to it. Thanks Statik!
Affordable EV transportation is almost here. Imagine how competitive the prices will be in 2012 and beyond. Still plan on buying in 2012, hopefully a Volt!
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:25 am)At that price the Volt would have unlimited orders until the credit runs out.
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:26 am)That may be but great information! This is much more aggressive than I expected. At these prices Nissan will “turn over” many many Leafs. (Couldn’t help myself). Thanks for the cite.
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:28 am)Know the feeling, i was on top of world trade center as a tourist 2 days before it came down.
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:32 am)This is one of the issue I don’t like. Why can’t you just plug in to 110v or a 220v (dryer hookup). Why do you have to spend $2000 for a hookup? What if you move every 3-4 years for your job or whatever, you have to pay $2000 every time you move.
This is the ONLY thing I don’t like about the plug in experience. It should be able to plug in to regular 110 or 220v.
Doesn’t the volt also require a special station for 220v?
Guess i’ll just charge at 110. Thats still plenty of time to charge the volt.
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:32 am)That pricing is really aggressive on Nissan’s part – they are pricing to sell alot of Leaf’s. That’s alot lower than I thought they would do. Wow, I’m litterally stunned.
They must be serious about making alot of them so they can get costs down.
It’ll be interesting to see what GM does, but with a low rate production in the pipe for the first year at least, I would bet on around ~$40k for the Volt’s price for the first year, JMHO of course.
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:33 am)#30
“May you live in interesting times.” +1
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:38 am)This is definitely affordable. Now the ball is in GM’s court …
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:44 am)You can still charge it at 110. The station is just a option.
It is true the Leaf has a much larger pack to charge, but for many people/most situations plugging into a standard outlet will be sufficiant. As they say most Americans travel less than 40 miles a day. You highly unlikely to be doing anywhere near a full charge very often.
Personally, I’m still going to fast charge. (Not likely I’ll have Nissan hook it up though. I know where the Home Depot is, lol)
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:46 am)#37
I don’t see anybody calling them that. How about “religious fanatics” or “insurgents” (probably too generous as well). It’s hard to know what is worse, blowing up innocent civilians, or brainwashing 18 year old girls into committing suicide to do so. I have a feeling that, when these guys get to stand before Allah, they are going to be disappointed to find out that He is not so happy about how they have been prostituting his religion. JMHO.
I think that there is widespread sympathy and sadness for our Russian friends in America today. I could fell and empathize with the terror of the poor souls who had to take the metro to work today, as they were interviewed on NPR this AM.
There has to be a better way, whether it be in Iraq, Afghanistan or Chechnya. We had better get to figuring it out, if we want to survive as a species. Again, JMHO.
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:47 am)I agree with the statements about low volume vehicles as it might apply to Chevy, but applying that standard to Cadillac seems misplaced. What does Cadillac sell other than high priced low volume vehicles? Isn’t the point of Cadillac to compete with low volume high priced, but profitable, vehicles from the likes of BMW and Mercedes?
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:48 am)#46
Same answer as #52
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:48 am)The full press release w/quotes follows:
NISSAN DELIVERS AFFORDABLE SOLUTIONS FOR PURCHASE, LEASE OF ALL-ELECTRIC NISSAN LEAF
As low as $25,280 ($32,780 MSRP minus up to $7,500 federal tax credit)
Lease world’s first mass-marketed EV for $349 per month
FRANKLIN, Tenn. (March 30, 2010) – Nissan North America, Inc. (NNA) today announced U.S. pricing for the 2011 Nissan LEAF electric vehicle, which becomes available for purchase or lease at Nissan dealers in select markets in December and nationwide in 2011. Nissan will begin taking consumer reservations for the Nissan LEAF April 20.
Including the $7,500 federal tax credit for which the Nissan LEAF will be fully eligible, the consumer’s after-tax net value of the vehicle will be $25,280. The Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price *(MSRP) for the 2011 all-electric, zero-emission Nissan LEAF is $32,780, which includes three years of roadside assistance. Additionally, there is an array of state and local incentives that may further defray the costs and increase the benefits of owning and charging a Nissan LEAF – such as a $5,000 statewide tax rebate in California; a $5,000 tax credit in Georgia; a $1,500 tax credit in Oregon; and carpool-lane access in some states, including California.
As a result of aggressive pricing and the availability of the $7,500 federal tax credit whose benefit is immediately included, Nissan will be able to offer a monthly lease payment beginning at $349, not including state or local incentives, which could further reduce the net cost of the Nissan LEAF.
“Imagine the possibility of never needing to go to a gas station again. Or of paying less than $3 for 100 miles behind the wheel. Or of creating zero emissions while driving,” said Brian Carolin, senior vice president, Sales and Marketing, NNA. “Nissan leads the industry by offering the first affordable, zero-emission vehicle for the mass market. Nissan LEAF truly is in a class by itself.”
The vehicle at the SV trim level is well-equipped with a variety of standard features, including an advanced navigation system and Internet/smart phone connectivity to the vehicle, enabling pre-heat/pre-cool and charging control. Nissan LEAF is equipped with energy-efficient LED headlights and makes extensive use of recycled and recyclable materials, such as seat fabric, instrument panel materials, and front- and rear-bumper fascias. Other standard amenities include Bluetooth connectivity; Intelligent-key with push button start; Sirius/XM satellite radio capabilities and roadside assistance. Safety features include vehicle dynamic control (stability control), traction control and six airbags. The SL trim level, available for an additional $940 (MSRP), adds features including rearview monitor, solar panel spoiler, fog lights, and automatic headlights.
Reservations and Purchase
In order to ensure a one-stop-shop customer experience, Nissan is carefully managing the purchase process from the first step, when consumers sign up on NissanUSA.com, until the customer takes the Nissan LEAF home and plugs it into a personal charging dock.
• Nissan begins accepting reservations on April 20 first from people who have signed up on NissanUSA.com, and, after a brief introductory period, to all interested consumers.
• Consumers will be required to pay a $99 reservation fee, which is fully refundable.
• Reserving a Nissan LEAF ensures consumers a place in line when Nissan begins taking firm orders in August, as well as access to special, upcoming Nissan LEAF events.
• Rollout to select markets begins in December, with nationwide availability in 2011.
Charging Equipment
In tandem with the purchase process, Nissan will offer personal charging docks, which operate on a 220-volt supply, as well as their installation. Nissan is providing these home-charging stations, which will be built and installed by AeroVironment, as part of a one-stop-shop process that includes a home assessment.
• The average cost for the charging dock plus installation will be $2,200.
• Charging dock and installation are eligible for a 50 percent federal tax credit up to $2,000.
Using current national electricity averages, Nissan LEAF will cost less than $3 to “fill up.”
• Nissan LEAF also will be the sole vehicle available as part of The EV Project, which is led by EV infrastructure provider eTec, a division of ECOtality, and will provide free home-charging stations and installation for up to 4,700 Nissan LEAF owners in those markets.
In North America, Nissan’s operations include automotive design, engineering, consumer and corporate financing, sales and marketing, distribution and manufacturing. Nissan is dedicated to improving the environment under the Nissan Green Program 2010, whose key priorities are reducing CO2 emissions, cutting other emissions and increasing recycling. More information on the Nissan LEAF and zero emissions can be found at http://www.NissanUsa.com.
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/news.jsp?item=30#/news
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:52 am)Nissan Leaf lease for 36 months is 35 months at $350 month and $1650 down = $10,050.
I didn’t see anything on the lease option that limited to 36,000 miles or anything like that.
I wonder if there is no limit?
If you drive 50 miles a day on average thats over 18,000 miles a year, you could drive 54,000 miles for $10,000 and a small amount of electricity.
+2
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:54 am)So if Nissan will have a means to reserve a Leaf run by Nissan USA, then how come GM does not?
I thought that state laws required the sales to be done through the dealers, not directly by the manufacturer. If GM is at all wondering about demand and it is legal to have a reservation list, then why not simply open a reservation list? Of course this requires an announcement of pricing. Better still open an official list to those on the the “Want List” here first!
-1
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:55 am)Further to #52
I would just hasten to add that Russia has no monopoly on this stuff, as witness those idiots in our own heartland yesterday.
A proper name for all of the above sort of eludes me. “Lunatics acting under cover of religion” maybe? Our local paper had a headline this AM calling them a “Christian militia”. How’s that for inappropriate Dimitri? Nobody ever taught me anything like that in Sunday school.
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:57 am)I AM IMPRESSED.
GM, please don’t drop the ball now! You have 1 shot at getting this right!
-4
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:59 am)Breaking news:
Nissan Leaf, $32780 in the US before government rebate.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/03/breaking-nissan-prices-all-electric-leaf-at-32780-in-us/1
Mar 30th, 2010 (10:59 am)So the Nissan Leaf, for about $12 a day you can lease a car and pay for the electricity.
When gas is $6 a gallon you could alternatively afford 2 gallons of gas and drive an average car 60 miles.
So for some people (that drive 60-70 miles a day), the Nissan Leaf would be the same as having an ICE car for FREE but only having to pay for the gas. And people keep saying these cars are too expensive.
Certainly they aren’t for everyone, but as the technology matures they will be.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:00 am)#55 statik:
Oh man, I can feel the earth wobbling on it’s axis. Big changes are coming. Beware of the dreaded Carlos Ghosn. +1
+2
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:03 am)One day I may own a Caddy… the best there is… but until then I will have to settle for Buick.
It would be nice to see the Voltec incorporated in a CUV that has the utility of a mini van.. like seats that come out to save weight and make large cargo volume. I hope GM doesn’t forget about galvanized metal bodies , stainless steel exhaust and alloy brakes… these are some of the things that make my Buick so good.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:04 am)I showed my wife the picture of the LEAF. The price is right, but the car is too small. She is leasing a Nissan Altima SL now. First car she will look at when the lease is up will be the VOLT. I’m hoping it is at least as large inside as the Altima. If not, she might go for the Equinox.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:05 am)Back to the Cadillac, LOL. If anybody cares at this point, since the Leaf just sucked all of the air out of the room.
My response is “Meh”. If GM can build a few of these and make a few bucks, more power to them.
I personally am not interested.
LJGTVWOTR!! NMST!
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:08 am)No idea what GM engineers chose to do, but there are many ways to skin a cat. The usual large pouch lipo cell intended for automotive usage is around 15-20Ah of capacity, with a nominal voltage of around 3.5VDC for the lithium manganese spinel cell that GM chose. Each cell has an energy content of 3.5V * 20A for one hour, thus 70wh.. we know the Volt has a 16,000 wh pack thus we need about 230 of these cells. All these numbers change if they use 15Ah cells and so on.
Arrange all the cells in series, you will end up with about 800VDC.. pretty unlikely high voltage but possible.. lets say you split it up into 3 packs of 76 cells each (in series = 266VDC with a capacity of 20Ah), then you arrange those 3 packs in parallel.. now you still have a reasonable 266VDC but with an increased capacity of 60Ah. We know the motor is capable of consuming 112kw continuously, it would drain 8kwh out of the battery in 4.3 minutes and the genset would have to start up. You have drained the batteries to half their charge level at a 7C rate (C does not stand for Centigrade, its just a dimensionless discharge rating for lipos).. as many of you that fly model airplanes now that is a good conservative discharge rate that will not overheat the batteries, but still it is at the upper end of a conservative design. Apparently 7C is the upper limit of the LG cells and that sounds reasonable.. contrast this with the 30C upper limit of A123 lipo cells and know you know the disappointment many of us felt when GM chose LG. A123 cells could be used in the Volt or in a top fuel dragster pumping out 1000s of hp, very versatile cells.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:14 am)OK, here is the EE rebuttal
Just a back-of-envelope calculation here, with some total guesstimates, mainly on how the Volt battery is hooked up.
ASSUMING:
288 cells
16 kWH total, 8 kWH used
connected as 48S6P for 185 volts at half-full
(36S8P also adds up to 288, hmm)
40 miles with 8 kWH at 60 mph means a current draw of 65 A
then guess a worst-case acceleration draw of double that, 130 A
cell capacity comes out to 14.4 AH (Capt Jack used a different voltage and got 15 AH, I used half-full)
typical boring LiMn cells can deliver 20C, so 288 A
6 cells in parallel can deliver (in theory) 1728 A
So the pack in this example can in theory put out over 10X the maximum possible current draw of the motor. Of course the wiring is a possible limiting factor but I’m sure they’ll make it large enough to do the job (and for 130 A, not 1728 A!).
Hopefully this stops any urban legends from getting started. The main guess here is how the pack is hooked up, but 48S6P and 185 V seems reasonable at least. The 20C output level is very conservative, by the way, whether the battery tabs can handle 288 A is another question!
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:25 am)Shhh!.. dont say it too loud but your home insurance provider wont like it if your installation is not up to code. I know how to wire it up but I would still hesitate to do it just for that reason.. nothing wrong with a slow charge overnight at 110V for me.
Expect the dryer hook up adapters to start showing up on Ebay soon.. $75 my guess.
The era of BEV 2.0 has started (Tesla was 1.0), the ball is now in GMs court.
So what color will your Leaf be?
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:28 am)This is the big one.
After a few years Nissan will probably be selling in the low $20k’s (without the credit) and they’ll still be making money.
Once buyers realize the financial/convenience advantage of no gas, no oil changes and very little maintenance, I expect sales to steadily gain momentum. GM and all the other major players will be forced to react . . . like it or not.
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:29 am)Black is the only acceptable color for a car.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:30 am)Sheez it looks like both of us need sharper pencils and better back of envelopes
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:35 am)Ugh… I’m glad somebody likes it. I think Cadillac went completely fugly once they went with the sharp angle styling.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:35 am)Good choice!, also very easy to match if you have to touch up the paint.. you know it does not look dignified to camp out at a nissan dealership to hand in the deposit on April 20th.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:36 am)For $125 I can pull a permit, wire it myself, have it inspected and it will be completely up to code.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:42 am)Not to get too wound around the axle on this but even if the batteries are rated for only 7C (probably due to the tabs, not the chemistry), and we cut the battery in half, making it 48S3P (so same voltage), the battery could still put out 300 A. Still more than enough for the guesswork maximum draw.
I think the main point I want to emphasize is that the internal chemistry and makeup of the batteries may be black magic, but once you get outside of that it’s just volts, amps, watts, etc. Basic electricity stuff, no magic involved.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:42 am)Very well said Noel.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:45 am)My guess would be for 3 parallel strings. One series string of 288 cells would range from 800V to 1200V. Two strings would be 144 in series with 400V to 600V working range.. maybe. Three strings would be 96 series cells with 270V to 400V working range. That is a very good working range. They could have a bidirectional converter to run with ~450V on the motor bus and use 600V transistors.
Below 270V the current starts getting too high to be practical to deal with. Not the cell current, since it is divided between many cells if you parallel further – but the current in the main wires, the current in the boost inductor and the boost transistor / diode pair.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:47 am)The Leaf and the Volt are about the same size. If anything, on the inside the Leaf seemed a bit larger. Basically if one is too small the other one will likewise be too small.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:48 am)April 20th is not the day to camp out at the dealer, it is the day to “reserve” online:
* Nissan begins accepting reservations on April 20 first from people who have signed up on NissanUSA.com, and, after a brief introductory period, to all interested consumers.
* Consumers will be required to pay a $99 reservation fee, which is fully refundable.
* Reserving a Nissan LEAF ensures consumers a place in line when Nissan begins taking firm orders in August, as well as access to special, upcoming Nissan LEAF events.
* Rollout to select markets begins in December, with nationwide availability in 2011.
But keep in mind: “2 Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price. Dealer sets price.”
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:50 am)I agree with that, but I am actually surprised they are being discharged at a 7C rate.. that is pretty high for batteries intended to last 10-15 years. For all we know the genset will have to run even when the batteries are not fully depleted to support that level of power. Otherwise the pack will be (half) drained in 4.3 minutes at 100mph.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:52 am)Looks a lot like a Versa.. do we have firm dimension numbers on the Leaf?
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:53 am)He is no squatter. His surname is Nissan, and he was in the computer business selling computers under the name “Nissan Computers” before Datsun changed their name to Nissan.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:54 am)As they say in the trade, I don’t think that’s a choice Nissan will allow you to make. AFAIK to buy or lease the car the charger has to be installed and the install has to be certified.
Mar 30th, 2010 (11:55 am)The Prius is up-converting to 500V I believe, so you are probably right.
Mar 30th, 2010 (12:03 pm)Not sure how “firm” these are, but the dimensions are:
length: 175.0 in.
height: 59.1 in.
width: 69.7 in.
wheel base: 106.3 in.
As compared to the Volt:
Length: 170 in.
Height: 52.6 in.
Width: 70.5 in.
Wheelbase: 105.7 in.
+1
Mar 30th, 2010 (12:04 pm)This morning’s FoxBusiness featured an interview with (CEO) Kelly Blue Book (KBB). The topic being hybrids. KBB noted 27 hybrids in production. That “this is the year of the hybrid.”
Fox highlighted live shots of two Porsche hybrids (that’s right) – a 911 Carrera hybrid and what I think is a Panamera. This underscores Lyle’s posting, unquestionably GM marketing plays catch-up. The 911 having but a single-seat with drive train hardware dominating the interior.
Obviously this is a scramble for bragging rights – Porsche claiming its 911 hybrid actually outperforming its ICE version. BTW: That 911 exposed 1″+ (25+ mm) bus bar cables in the interior. That’s huge power a WAGuess — 200+ V – 3 phase at 1000+ amps. GM has nothing near that – except maybe its former diesel electric locomotives.
Mar 30th, 2010 (12:04 pm)Sort of. The motor in the Volt is an induction motor. It is not operated like a motor running on a fixed frequency line. The voltage and frequency applied can be independently varied under computer control. At less than full power any given power / torque can be produced over a range, but only one combination gives peak efficiency. The motor will assuredly be operated at the combination that results in peak efficiency below maximum power.
The “optimum” voltage for any given motor is with a non-reentrant design. A reentrant winding is where a coil is made up from several passes back through the same slot with the same wire. A non-reentrant winding is done where an individual strand only passes through each slot once. Since a non-reentrant winding only is in the slot once, the wire can be made from square wire and space isn’t wasted between strands. There is also less space used up for insulation.
For a motor around the size of the one in the volt, this is in the 300-400V range. Under that and the motor becomes a compromise in that the number of slots used must be cut. Above that, and the designer will switch to two turns per coil instead of just one.
That is pretty well assured with a 40 mile range. After all, that is 40 minutes to dead on the freeway, not all that fast of a discharge.
Li-ion batteries aren’t as good as NiMH, but they still have a pretty good discharge rate.
Mar 30th, 2010 (12:18 pm)Did Coda just go out of business with this announcement?.. I wonder how much it would cost to bump up the range to 150 miles?
This low a price will put the Leaf in reach of people with no idea of how an electric car works.. perhaps we will see more stranded Leaf drivers on the side of the road after all. What was the Leafs possible production rate again?
+3
Mar 30th, 2010 (12:19 pm)I read an article about this on yahoo finance. According to them, GM was looking to price the Volt at $35,000 before rebates, so it would be $27,500 after the rebate. But they may lower it in response to Nissan’s pricing.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nissan-electric-car-to-cost-apf-3270595876.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode=
Personally, I would gladly spend the extra $2500 for the range extender. But that’s just me.
Mar 30th, 2010 (12:19 pm)The main reason for the up-convert on the Prius is due to the motor design. The Prius batteries are in the 200V range, and that’s just too low for efficient induction motors of the size needed.
The motor can be done at that low of a voltage, but it suffers efficiency penalties.
I’d expect the Volt to do something similar, with a sliding bus voltage based on power output.
Mar 30th, 2010 (12:29 pm)Condolences to Russian friend Dmitrii (#37) for those horrible terrorist bombings of the Moscow subway.
However, they provide an opportunity for electric-car fans to think about dangers of the various types of electricity generation which will have to be increased to provide for the switchover from oil.
These subway bombs could easily have been nuclear weapons if Russian boss Putin (and the Chinese) continue to block US efforts to have the UN penalize Iran for its nuclear program. Iran has spent billions to make almost-pure Uranium 235 which will get them to within 90% of having a nuclear bomb. (The design and construction are relatively easy.) When they have it, they can do a trillion dollars worth of damage and kill a million people with one bomb. Yet Putin is more interested in the relatively few rubles Russia can make off trade with Iran. What blindness!
Even stupider is Putin’s insistence on helping Iran develop nuclear power plants. True, the Uranium fuel is not purified enough to be of bomb grade, but the waste includes Plutonium which can also be used to make a nuclear weapon. And Plutonium, being a separate element, can be separated relatively easily by using ordinary chemical methods.
Does he really want to give the weirdos running Iran the power to make weapons, one of which can destroy his whole capital? And if they don’t use it themselves, run the danger of one of those bombs “accidently” falling into the hands of the kind of people who didn’t hesitate to destroy the World Trade Center?
Electric-car fans should be aware that nuclear plants are, in their own way, more dangerous than oil-based fuel for cars or coal fuel for electricity.
Mar 30th, 2010 (12:38 pm)If I get correctly, Leaf would cost 20K $ in Atlanta (after tax credits)? Wow!
But Nissan battery has no over-heating/cooling protection… how long is the guaranty on the battery pack? I wonder, will it die at -40 C (-40 F) temperature?
Associated Press is.
Funny, in 1996 we gave Chechen province independence. Shortly after that number of terrorist attacks increased. In 2000 Chechnya was made part of Federation – again – to stop murders, kidnapping and drug mass production.
And they say they are killing people because this is their fight for “freedom”…
Mar 30th, 2010 (12:40 pm)#76
Thanks for your kind words. Such things are heartbreaking, whether they happen in New York, London, Madrid, Moscow, Baghdad, Islamabad, Mumbai, or Kabul. The list goes on forever, Darfur, Mogadishu, Nairobi…………………. It is always the innocent and the defenseless who are killed and injured, and for what? There has to be a better way.
Mar 30th, 2010 (12:44 pm)I think pricing the Volt at $35K would be stupid. GM can sell them at $40K. If they set the price too low then dealers will jack up the price above MSRP and the Chevy brand will take a hit. The EV-1 was a PR fiasco. GM doesn’t need another.
GM will only have 10K units to sell. It’s best bet is to make MSRP close to market price, whatever that is. It would be different if GM was planning to manufacture 100,000 Volts.
In this regard, Nissan’s business case requires that it sell 100,000 – 150,000 Leafs a year. The Leaf’s pricing is based on this target. GM has taken a completely different approach. It’s gone down the low volume trail in order to minimize exposure. At this point in time it’s probably too late for GM to try and match Nissan on the price front. The volumes are simply too different.
Mar 30th, 2010 (12:45 pm)#89
I agree. It’s me too. I”ll bet that there’s a few more of us out there too, LOL. +1
Mar 30th, 2010 (12:49 pm)So much for the XTS, LMAO.
Mar 30th, 2010 (1:07 pm)Well we will hopefully know soon enough, they can’t keep the design secret forever!
My experience is mostly with motors you can hold in your hand (model airplanes), but yes, going to a higher voltage lowers the current and lets you use smaller wires. Same stuff is true in the world of r/c.
Mar 30th, 2010 (1:08 pm)The problem is that GM went down a path which isn’t going to allow them to immediately compete with Nissan. I think of it as the lack of a “vision thing”. The fact is that the only reason we’re seeing a Volt is because of Bob Lutz. I think highly of Lutz (we disagree on this but no big deal), but he really missed the change in attitudes. His idea was to put enough Volts in showrooms so people would come by and end up with a Malubu or Equinox. In this scenario making a limited number of Volts made sense. It would minimize the downside, allow GM to slowly move up the learning curve, and give the Chevy brand a boost by putting an EV in most showrooms.
The problem is that he missed the societal value changes. People are truly fed up with terrorism and OPEC. They don’t want to buy gas. So if you want to tell OPOEC to kiss off and you want an EV, you’re not going to decide that, if you can’t get a Volt, you’ll settle for an Equinox (except if you’re CorvetteGuy). What you’ll do is try and find an available EV.
So the choice may not be between buying a Leaf or spending $2500 for a Volt. Given the projected production numbers for the Volt, the choice will likely be between buying a Leaf or an Equinox, or not buying anything.
Mar 30th, 2010 (1:16 pm)I would be very surprised if GM was actual considering $35K and even more surprised if they lowered in response to this for the very reason you state. I think it more likely they will choose $37,499 instead of $40K as their response. To people that see the ER of the EV as essential won’t care that much what the cost differential is above the Leaf. I would expect the Prius cost differential to be more of a concern for these buyers.
Mar 30th, 2010 (2:04 pm)Well I certainly agree that unemployment is out of control, but I think they’re still underestimating demand.
Besides, 17% unemployment still leaves 83% of the world who can buy this car! (Okay, that math is admittedly way too optimistic and simple, but I think GM is equally overboard on their pessimism)
Mar 30th, 2010 (2:48 pm)To complete wrecking this nice XTS thread…
My analysis above must have been incorrect as far as my guess at a peak load, since that would only be 32 horsepower, vs. the 149 the electric motor supposedly can do. So the load at full on acceleration must be more like 8-10X what is used when rolling along at a constant nice speed (I used 60mph), and not double. In any case, 149 hp is a lot of juice, you wouldn’t keep it running at that level for very long!
But still it stands that if the motor is in any way limited by the battery’s output capability, that would be a poor design.
I’ve never heard of higher current rates decreasing the lifetime of the battery, so long as they are under the battery’s rating, and it doesn’t heat up. My LiMns are a few years old and rated for 20C, so 7C seems very conservative. I think we are all still learning, and about the time everything is understood, the battery companies reformulate their chemistry yet again so we have to start over.
Mar 30th, 2010 (3:15 pm)So, if we’re all good going OT, here’s the latest Cadillac scoop from the NY autoshow.
2011 Cadillac CTS-V Sport Wagon
6.2 liter supercharged V-8
556 Hp, 551 ft-lb torque, 0-60 in 4 sec.
starting at $61k
As they say, something for mom to get the groceries in.
Mar 30th, 2010 (4:32 pm)17%? Where does that number come from? With the exception of Michigan the states with the highest unemployment have rates closer to 7% than to 17%. But yes, absent government intervention generally, and in the car industry specifically, the unemployment rate in Michigan would probably be 27%.
So far in this recovery what we’ve seen is normal growth only. Since companies largely sold off their inventories in 2009, at some point they will have to rebuild those inventories. As that happens we may have a big surprise on the upside (employed not unemployed). Potentially it could be dramatic.
Mar 30th, 2010 (4:35 pm)Herm:
I think that’s exactly right. With the current LG cells the Volt is probably capable of using the maximum power available from the battery, so half the battery will also mean half the horsepower.
Mar 30th, 2010 (4:58 pm)Well I will just say I respectfully disagree, and leave it at that. If a new Volt is running at the ragged edge of what the batteries can provide, then there is no way those batteries will ever last for 10 years.
Mar 30th, 2010 (7:48 pm)17% is the unofficial average, including those too discouraged to actively look for work.
That number has usually only been highlighted by CNNMSNBCABCNBCCBSNPRPBSNYTimesWashPostLATimesNewsweekTime during these recent periods:
1981 – 1993
2001 – 2009
Apr 1st, 2010 (6:51 am)Bill, you’ve summarized the Plug-in XTS beautifully! I only want to add my endorsement of this car (and a comment or two). It was two years ago at VoltNation when I gave Bob Lutz 20 copies of a 2-page technical treatise embodying essentially this same drive train concept in a smaller vehicle, the plug-in Saturn Vue. It had GM’s excellent 3.6-liter V6 fitted to their FWD 2-Mode transmission with twin electric motors having a total of 150hp. If they decided to fit the 3.6L V6 with twin turbos for the XTS application, this could potentially boost its power to 375hp. And pairing this with the 150hp electric motors could provide as much as 525hp on tap!
This Plug-in XTS could be driven in EV-only mode around town, in V6 mode on the highway, or as a parallel hybrid with well over 500hp available! So you could get extremely high mpg around town in the pollution-free EV mode, regenerative braking and neck-snapping torque under all driving conditions, city or highway! Now that’s a fantastic drive train! And I agree the car’s design is simply gorgeous and its interior seems as posh as a Rolls or Bentley. Fantastic!