[ad#post_ad]The diminutive jellybean-shaped 4 seat 47 kw (54 hp) Mitsubishi iMiEV pure electric car isn’t talked about as much since Nissan unveiled its Leaf program.
However, Mitsubishi has continued forward with the production program and intends to build as many as 30,000 vehicles per year over the next three years. The output for this fiscal year beginning in April is 9000 vehicles.
Today marks a significant turning point in the car’s history. For the first time an actual official European price tag has been issued for the vehicle.
When it goes on sale in the UK on January 1, 2011, it will sell for £38,699 including a 17.5% VAT (value added tax). Granted there is a £5000 government tax credit, however the full price after the credit still translates to $50,754 (£33,699).
The iMiEV has an 80 mile range and top speed of 80 mph.
The car will be sold to people in the UK the same way any conventional car would. There is no lease option nor separate battery lease.
Apparently there are already 150 pre-orders.
The iMiEV has been on sale in Japan since July, and there it costs 4.59 million Yen ($51,000).
“The North American version of the vehicle goes on sale in Fall of 2011,” Mitsubishi spokesperson Maurice Durand told GM-Volt. “Pricing (in the US) has not yet been announced.”
Suddenly under $40,000 for a Volt sounds like a very good deal indeed.
Source (Mitsubishi)
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This entry was posted on Tuesday, March 23rd, 2010 at 1:28 pm and is filed under BEV, Competitors. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+3
Mar 23rd, 2010 (1:42 pm)Take two, they’re small!
Mar 23rd, 2010 (1:42 pm)What is the 0-60mph time for this golf cart?
+8
Mar 23rd, 2010 (1:42 pm)I think they pay almost $6 a gallon for gasoline in the UK. I imagine that is a factor.
+5
Mar 23rd, 2010 (1:45 pm)So am I the only one who dreams of buying a white Mitsubishi and then putting the pre-1945 “rising sun” as large as possible on each side (maybe the front and back also)? I think it would look sweet, although somewhat politically incorrect.
This urge probably comes from my general interest in WW2 aircraft.
+21
Mar 23rd, 2010 (1:47 pm)This is what GM was counting on, they have pioneered such a powerful technology they can capture more market share than anyone else.
They will have the most usable daily range for the EV crowd, the lowest initial cost for an EV, and will capture the perhaps “upscale” hybrid users. GM really did their homework here.
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (1:56 pm)£33,699 = $50,690 which includes the 17.5% VAT (tax on everything) and doesn’t include the £5,000 ($7,518) the gvmnt will knock off.
Real price = $43,172 in the UK
Fixed.
+9
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:01 pm)This makes the Volt look like a No Brainer and sucess for GM. I look forward to seeing it compete with the likes of this Mitsu and the Leaf.
+14
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:02 pm)Once again, a vehicle manufacturer other than GM makes the Volt look even better. Keep up the good work, GM. Good PR getting all these other companies to price their electrics so much higher than the Volt. Must have taken a lot of work on Bob Lutz’s part. All kidding aside, this does look good for the Volt. Now, if GM doesn’t decide to raise their price on the Volt to “compete” against these higher priced EVs. Just remember, GM, your main competition is going to be the Toyota Prius and the Ford Fusion Hybrid.
-1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:03 pm)I love this little car, and I am understanding from the high price tag that Mitsu thinks that a lot of other people do too.
That is, I read into the high price that Mitsu has the expectation of a strong initial UK demand from people who have the money and are willing to pay a premium price, while on the Mitsu side there being some factors that limit available volume to relatively small numbers.
+7
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:07 pm)Look for one with a “0″ in the VIN.
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:09 pm)Does that cost include VAT or any other taxes? Given the current exchange rate, taxes, etc, usually (for computer hardware at least) the price in GBP is close to the price in USD (a $999 MacBook in the US is 815GBP, or 1.25GBP per dollar after factoring in taxes). The math for the iMEV would be from 38,000 GBP to $48,000.
+13
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:10 pm)If I get a Tesla Model S for $50K, that looks like a hell of a deal.
-3
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:17 pm)“What is the 0-60mph time for this golf cart?”
A comment like this makes you sound uninformed.
+4
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:31 pm)That Tesla might actually be fun to drive too, especially with no passengers.
+5
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:31 pm)Mitsubishi is clearly taking whatever profits it can get in the near term, while hurting its long-term chances of success by giving the general public the impression that the i-miev is too expensive. That leads me to believe that Mitsubishi sees this as a novelty project, not a significant future profit center for the company. If GM goes the same route with the Volt, it will be a very bad sign for the future of the program IMHO.
+4
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:33 pm)DOA, IMHO.
+7
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:39 pm)EREV’s with smaller AER and smaller prices is starting to look like pure genius now…IMHO.
+4
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:47 pm)On my many business trips to the UK, it seems that all consumer goods are the same numerical price as in the US. As an example, a pair of Jeans that cost $40 US would cost GBP 40.
Cars, in general, are similar. A car in the U.S. (Washington D.C. area) that cost $17500 new is closer to GBP 15,250.
Using that kind of ratio as a guesstimate puts the Mitsu in the low to mid 40′s before the tax credit.
JMHO
+2
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:49 pm)Now we see what large battery BEVs will truly cost. They simply aren’t ready for prime time with 20-teens technology.
Come back with the glorified golf carts in 2020 when battery prices are a magnitude cheaper. Until then both Mitsu and Nisan wil do fine to quietly crush them; but leave a few for the the quacks, to forestall a new “Who killed the EV1? movie sequel.
+13
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:54 pm)That’s a bunch of money for something that I can only drive locally.
The Volt is looking better and better all the time.
+3
Mar 23rd, 2010 (2:56 pm)While I find all variations of alternative powertrains (BEVs, EREVs, hybrids, etc.) interesting, the hybrids and EREVs remain the ones with the fewest “compromises” at this time.
Mar 23rd, 2010 (3:20 pm)Way too much for that BEV. Nissan will announce the Leaf price within the next couple of weeks. My bet is the Leaf will be 30 to 35k USD.
+2
Mar 23rd, 2010 (3:21 pm)Also if you’re driving into London there’s a not insignificant “Congestion Charge” that I’d imagine would be waived for the iMiev.
+4
Mar 23rd, 2010 (3:23 pm)Not really, I certainly don’t want to drive round a 54hp car. Been there, done that!
+2
Mar 23rd, 2010 (3:39 pm)If the ‘pure electric’ MIEV is $58,000…. (Holy Generators, Batman!!!) What chance is there really for a $19,995.00 All-Electric Chevy Cruze? I think it’s gonna be a lonnnnnnnnnggggggggg wait.
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (3:46 pm)You realize that by the time you can get one they will be closer to $100k?
+3
Mar 23rd, 2010 (3:57 pm)HOLY RIPOFF BATMAN!!!!!
+14
Mar 23rd, 2010 (4:14 pm)“Suddenly under $40,000 for a Volt sounds like a very good deal indeed.”
Yes sir, Chevrolet has always been the average folks’ car, and I think the Volt will be a bargain at 40K, ($32,500 with the federal rebate).
Consider what you get: ie. a REAL CAR that you can drive anywhere, anytime, any distance, with NO concern about running out of juice. Drive as usual. Simply plug it in when you get home and your next 40 miles are gas-free. And since almost 80% of Americans routinely drive less than 40 miles a day, they will use no gas at all for most of their driving. The Volt is light years ahead of anything else out there for the price.
The Volt is the real watershed vehicle. Any pure electric car like the one above is just a toy, or a rich man’s plaything, or on EXTRA car that you keep parked next to your real car.
With the Volt, GM has the right idea for the future of motoring.
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (4:57 pm)HOLY “WTF” BATMAN!!!!
That’s a lot of aluminum can’s and plastic bottles for me to recycle!!
lol…. really, i’ll wait for the US price to be announced.
Yup, it would be parked next to my 96 Saturn SL2 with GREEN oxidized peeling paint and non working power windows with a leaking sunroof and disabled power door locks because the switches “flap”. It’s a “LAMBOGREENIE”!!!!!
Mar 23rd, 2010 (5:07 pm)Have seen this price associated with the iMiEV for over a year now. Thought it had to be a working R&D number with the actual sticker being closer to $35k. Mitsubishi obviously isn’t looking to break sales volume records. The rumored price on the Leaf may be a solid number. This being $30k after State and Federal credits. If the Leaf, iMiEV, and Volt sell at a higher price AND a high rate. What becomes of the hybrid car market? The only advantage I see the iMiEV and Leaf have over the Volt is on insurance price. Lighter cars insure for less.
BTW: Assorted lithium stocks made a good move today. I am currently deep into health care and energy delivery. Will sit lithium out. Health care stocks have done well this week.
=D-Volt
iMiEV L.A. 09′
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (5:08 pm)Yes. The Tesla rep at the Detroit auto show remarked that the first year of the Model S would all be “limited editions” with special loaded packages that would sell for around $80,000.
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (5:23 pm)Is the range of this “Jelly Bean” car really 80 MPC? I though it was at least 100MPC.
Top speed of 80 doesn’t bother me. Like I’ve said before, i’m lucky to hit 55mph for 2 minutes on my 9.5 mile commute.
Anyway, I like both the “Jelly Bean” (iMiEV) car and the “Catfish” car (Leaf). Both will do perfectly fine for my tasks. I’ll wait for the US price to be announced before I get excited……or depressed.
I live in CA so I think we “Kahl-eeee-forneeeans” are lucky bcause of this additional rebate or whateva it’s called: http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project/cvrp-eligible-vehicles
/Broke azz CA…..
Mar 23rd, 2010 (5:26 pm)OT(?) but breaking news – link – http://www.greenchipstocks.com/articles/electric-car-conversions/778
News about ALTe, a company that plans to do large scale conversions of ICE vehicles to electric vehicles. It made its debut at the 2010 National Truck Equipment Association Work Truck Show and Green Truck Summit, March 11 in St. Louis. Per the article “this is big news”. The company will be Michigan based and calls for a manufacturing plant in Auburn Hills, MI, that will employ 1000. They will be offering Ford F150 conversions. On the board is Thomas LaSorda (former President and CEO of Chrysler Group) and Steven Landry (former EVP of Chrysler North American Sales and Marketing).
+3
Mar 23rd, 2010 (5:32 pm)What is up, has someone started a contest to see who can build the ugliest electric car? First the Leaf, then the Fiat, and now this brick with headlights. Next thing you know they will be bringing back the Edsel.
-7
Mar 23rd, 2010 (5:42 pm)This site seems to be anti ANY electric vehicle that ISN’T a Volt.
The price released is BEFORE the rebate, not after as you’ve INVENTED!
So after the government rebate the price becomes £28,699 ($43,152.34 USD)
+8
Mar 23rd, 2010 (5:44 pm)The soon to be “Built in Indiana” THINK City looks like the bargain to me.
I’ve read speculation that it will be around $20,000 after the $7500 tax credit is applied (time will tell though). I climbed inside this car at the Elkhart, Indiana manufacturing site press conference back in January. The THINK City is well engineered and built.
110+ mile range. Enerdel’s 24 kW pack (they own 31% of THINK now).
Enerdel is located down the road in Indianapolis.
A 50kW motor (for 75 mph top speed), air bags, meets all US and EURO crash specs.
THINK is already working with AeroVironment on Level 3 fast charging (15 minutes to 80%).
A TeleMatic interface to remotely monitor and control charging & cabin pre-conditioning.
And now the best part…..
Expect the price of this car to always be competitive. The local suppliers here in northern Indiana know how to wring out their costs from decades of working with the RV Industry.
+2
Mar 23rd, 2010 (5:46 pm)#33
Well that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
+2
Mar 23rd, 2010 (5:48 pm)More power to them if they can do it. +1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (5:49 pm)#35
DOA, IMHO.
+3
Mar 23rd, 2010 (5:57 pm)It sure looks like they are going for the money, not as much for looks (from the American style preferences are concerned). Practically-minded Europeans vote with their Euros for practicality firstly anyways.
But, as someone above mentioned that gasoline is above $6 a gallon on the other side of the pond, the economics of 80 miles ER compared to a 27 mpg auto might save a Euro buyer something like 18 bucks a day if they needed to drive the entire range, and, for a five day work week (plus weekend mileages), that savings alone might go very far to make the payment due to gas savings for those who need to drive very high daily miles there.
You can always reduce your BEV price, but it is difficult to increase it once listed.
Having 150 deposits already does not surprise me at all, since the cost of petrol over there is the main drive toward electrification.
Good for them. This sends just the right message, that there is a “pot of gold” in electrification for those that do it right, and back their products as well as GM does.
Great topic today.
+3
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:12 pm)That is the most ‘ovaloid’ shape I’ve ever seen in a vehicle; “Jelly Bean” is right!
Not all that bad looking, but by golly you sure get a lot more car for your money with the Volt. Only the Volt will allow you to take a cross-country cruise. Batteries are going to have to get WAY cheaper to make pure EV vehicles competitive.
+2
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:15 pm)See what I mean? Too much crap is on cars nowadays. Trim levels force you to buy sh|t you don’t want.
Just a basic car will do for regular commuters. Just give me…
No Power Windows
No Power Adjust Seats
No Power Side view mirrors
No Power Sunroof (Actually No Sunroof at all!!)
No Power Door Locks
No Power Trunk lock
No Radio (Remember that fiasco? – Get an iPod)
No Heated Seats
No GPS (My Phone has one and it WORKs!)
No OnStar!!!
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:22 pm)Regardless of the price anyone sayz, it’s what is signed on the purchase contract on that day. when you roll off of that lot you have PAID FULL price.
But, don’t forget California has a $5,000.00 rebate for a BEV to double dip: http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project/cvrp-eligible-vehicles
Of course the Jelly Bean car is not listed yet but it will when it get’s closer to US rollout, same with Tesla Model’S’.
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:25 pm)If manufacturers build the car you’re looking for. It will be called the reduced weight “racing edition” and cost 10% more. A good reason to own a motorcycle.
It sure looks like the city streets of 2012 and beyond will be much more quiet than today. Even if just 1 in 4 proposed EV are produced and sold.
=D-Volt
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:30 pm)Ummm… yeah… I would guess that you probably ARE the only one dreaming of this. Just a hunch.
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:32 pm)I’ve been watching this car. It was my first choice for a BEV. Too much has happened to them and the battery might be just a lease only. but it’s probably too early to say stil. They need to hurry up and get their car on the road. They had a pretyy good concept car a few years back. It was the Th!mk OX but it looks like they changed it to Th!nk O: http://www.thinkev.com/content/view/full/885
I guess it’s better than a slow OX…..lol
/still, the Th!nk city will still work for me too…
+2
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:32 pm)Other ‘MSRP’ UK prices:
Cruze £12,795 – £16,045 — which ‘would be’ $19–24K
Ford Focus £17,870 – £27,575 — which ‘would be’ $26-40K
Toyota Prius £19,504 – £22,610 — which ‘would be’ $29-34K
Corvette £48,000 — which ‘would be’ $72K
/just saying
——————–
If you have never kicked any tires anywhere in Europe then the conversion can be a tricky thing to get your head around.
Rule of thumb is that a Euro = USD straight (no currency conversion…I know, you really, really want to…but you can’t). Therefore a £ is a factor of 1.12. Then less the VAT of 17.5%. (You also have to consider that a car’s MSRP is generally priced much higher out of the gate because the average incentive per car is much higher in Europe than in the US)
£33,699, probably translates out to about the same number in the US
If anyone thinks that whenever the Opel Ampera makes its debut in the UK is going to be priced at £26,000 to give a straight exchange shot of $39,000 in USD, then they have a surprise coming.
+2
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:43 pm)The race continues! Auto makers surge forward, introducing model after model that make my Aztek finally look like the cool, attractive car on the block!
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:45 pm)The $7500 Federal Tax Credit.
The $5000 California Rebate.
I betcha THINK’s web site is getting some California customer traffic these days.
-3
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:54 pm)Brits can afford this car be cause they have free h ealth ca re but we can’t because we don’t
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:54 pm)And half of the 50,000+ buyers on the Leaf List is from “Kahl-eee-fornee-ya”.
+3
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:55 pm)Or as the article changes, £38,699 still probably equals about the same in USD, lol. I’m only commenting on the method, not the value of the price itself.
—-
Half the ‘interwebs’ are putting out £38,699 less £5,000. Others are saying it is £33,699, then £5,000.
From Mitsu themselves: “For orders delivered to the customer from January 1st 2011, to coincide with the UK government’s recently announced Consumer Incentive Scheme, the price has been set at £33,699 including VAT. The government grant will be worth £5,000 off the purchase price of qualifying electric and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles.”
– translate as you will
Other random UK-US price anomalies:
Tesla Roadster Base Pricing in UK: £86,950
Tesla Roadster Vase Pricing un US: $101,500
http://www.teslamotors.com/buy/selectlocation.php?buy_country=reset
Mar 23rd, 2010 (6:58 pm)Just curious… and I am ignorant of their policy there……Do employed individuals pay for healtcare benefits or is it free but their employer has to pay for it?
/remember, I haven’t a clue and since you brought it up, I was just wondering.
Mar 23rd, 2010 (7:16 pm)Do they really expect people to pay that kind of money ?
Until we see $100/kwh battery costs, I believe BEVs’ will remain a dead end…
Mar 23rd, 2010 (7:32 pm)I’d go with statik’s pricing guesses. The UK–>US price is somewhat hard to do. Currency exchange deflates the price. VAT and the higher cost of distribution inflate it. A straight across pound for dollar conversion is probably too little. I’d inflate the UK price by 15% and call it a day.
This may be academic because the iMiev is not likely bound for NA. The battery pack is just too small at 16 kWh. It might be large enough to work in other places but not in NA. Just not enough juice for the distances, drive cycles, and driving conditions.
Mar 23rd, 2010 (7:34 pm)“Suddenly under $40,000 for a Volt sounds like a very good deal indeed.”
Oh, Oh, Volt price creep…
+4
Mar 23rd, 2010 (7:37 pm)The UK is single provider as opposed to Canada which is single payer. Within the UK the Welsh, English, and Scots have their own systems. It’s “free” for everyone but in reality everyone pays because the costs are covered by general taxation. (There really isn’t a free lunch).
Mar 23rd, 2010 (7:47 pm)Ahnuld says….
“Hear me now und believe me later, buy zis Kar !
“Rump of Rino, grill of Kaatfish…”
“Embrace the Kaatfish, it is your fuuuture!”
+3
Mar 23rd, 2010 (8:08 pm)Even with the higher fuel prices in Europe, a $35,000-$45,000 urban commuter is priced too high for broad acceptance.
Reminding us how expensive those large battery packs are. And most likely tipping off a major reason GM is planning a slow rollout for Volt, and talking alot lately about “smaller packs” in 2 mode hybrids.
I’m only praying that GM sticks to a price for the Volt that is achievable for a middle-class type buyer – Like me!
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME
Mar 23rd, 2010 (8:10 pm)What’s fixed? What about congestion charges, or lack of them?
Mar 23rd, 2010 (8:30 pm)Lets cut the driving range down so they save $10.00 a day. Then compare it to that 27 mpg ICE. In ten years minus oil changes oxygen sensors, brake pads and rotors, minus congestion charges and add the gummnt credit and it’s, it’s…dang it’s free!!!
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (8:35 pm)Seems like GM shouldn’t release the Volt for at least a year or two. By then, it’ll seem like they are *giving* it away! (lol). (If you’re listening, GM, I really AM kidding!)
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (8:38 pm)I noticed more than one article today – So I have to make a comment regarding one of our daily posters remarks earlier that he is seriously contemplating buying a new Dodge Magnum R/T as his next car.
ARE YOU KIDDING?!!! Your choices are a Dodge Magnum V8 vs. a Volt?!!!! Huh?!!
The Magnum flies in the face of everything we all are hoping for in the Volt. It’s a huge, heavy behemoth of decades long past. Even though it has a Hemi inside, I don’t think the Magnum, much less the R/T version is a wise choice as a collector car investment. The Magnum and 300C ( Challenger too ) are 3 generations past Mercedes E class chassis underneath with the aerodynamics of a brick. To me, a great example of how American car companies lagged behind, and to this day try to capitalize on nostalgia over substance by selling outdated, dirty, expensive, innefficient retro-themed cars to middle-aged Americans muddled by memories of yore.
So hmmmm….Volt? Magnum?…Magnum? Volt? This might typify how literaly confused the domestic auto buying public is as of 2010.
TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!
RECHARGE! James
+2
Mar 23rd, 2010 (8:54 pm)I just realized the Leaf looks a lot like Jar-jar Binks.
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (8:58 pm)Uh, maybe he needs a truck.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
Mar 23rd, 2010 (9:24 pm)They stopped making the Magnum a few years ago… If he found one on a dealers lot there is likely one heck of a deal to be had… can buy a lot of nice safe Canadian gas for the savings…
Mar 23rd, 2010 (9:28 pm)Thank you Statik.
Lyle did the same thing to the Leaf the other day.
Plus I notice that when the Volt price is quoted it tends to include the rebate while the Leaf and the iMiEV don’t.
Let’s just keep it consistent, ok? With all the double-standards a casual observer might easily think that many around here don’t believe the Volt compares favourably to the competition on its own merit.
Mar 23rd, 2010 (9:51 pm)If one backs off on the ideals just a little and then adds in a bit of penny pinching there are some really incredible deals to be had on the Chryco lots.
The Neighbor got a Journey R/T and it its a really nice fully loaded little AWD CUV for just a hair over $30k cdn.
The Brother in law bought a Charger and really likes the car, it’s quiet and powerful. I don’t have finance details.
Both are decent on fuel.
Of course we would ideally all like to have a Volt, the hard reality is that for at least 2 years there will not be enough Volts just for the people on the list!
There is little point in criticizing another, they are making their own decisions with their own circumstances.
Mar 23rd, 2010 (9:53 pm)Good point.
It is certainly a consideration if you happen to travel the CCZ zone a lot…which is pretty much like saying anywhere in central-west London. If you are inside the city during business hours throughout the week your going to pay $12-$13 bucks a day if I remember correctly. (That is all pretty much moot if you live inside the zone however.)
It is very regional though. I don’t believe anywhere else in the UK has adopted this? I could be wrong. Maybe someone else more familar could fill that info in.
You could easy rack up $10,000+ over the life of a car. That being said if you are comparing EV-X to EV-Y…both would have this advantage.
Mar 23rd, 2010 (9:57 pm)If they could get the price down a little it could replace the spare tire in my pickup.
Mar 23rd, 2010 (9:58 pm)iMiev, Toyota IQ, Smart EV, THINKcity, Fiat 500EV all make sense for narrow roads of European cities and villages. I hope the price comes way down so we can see large numbers of these clean, cute little machines silently traversing the cobblestone streets, traffic circles and crowded urban settings of Europe’s population centers clearing the air. Blue tec Diesel-electric EREVs make more sense there also.
As for us, horror to think of the aftermath of a 2 car collision – Suburban, Expedition, Sequoia or even a minivan vs. one of these itty bitty appliances.
RECHARGE! James
IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME.
+2
Mar 23rd, 2010 (11:03 pm)As Lyle said, “Suddenly under $40,000 for a Volt sounds like a very good deal indeed.”
As I’ve argued on more than one prior post here, a 40-mile AER EREV like the Volt is inherently less costly to manufacture than a 100-mile AER BEV. And I continue to strongly suspect that the several automakers introducing BEVs are secretly hard at work developing EREVs that they can sell at much more competitive MSRPs. The delay is not only the added complexity —its also very much due to the perilous task of avoiding horrendous law suits from GM’s intellectual rights attorneys! But you can be sure the world’s car makers haven’t failed to realize both the inherent huge practical advantages AND the large cost savings the Voltec design has over the BEV architecture —for many years to come!
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (11:06 pm)Since the Volt gets 66 miles range (EPA city cycle) using 8kwh of battery the iMiev should get 106 miles of range using 12.8kwh (80% DoD of the 16kwh battery). The EPA derates those mileages by around 22-30% to account for more aggressive and faster modern driving.. this brings the Volt down to 46 miles range and the iMiev down to 74 miles “real life” range.
74 miles “real life” range should be good for a large proportion of US drivers.
Mar 23rd, 2010 (11:14 pm)Throw this into your calculator… the price includes 17.5% VAT… if you buy the car with a VAT registered business you claim that 17.5% back which effectively means a 17.5% discount for business purchasers.
Either way, production volume is so small there will be more demand than supply for the next few years… so all the price whingers will never get a look in.
+1
Mar 23rd, 2010 (11:19 pm)If my grandpa saw you, he might start shooting on instinct before he realized why he was shooting :0
Mar 23rd, 2010 (11:23 pm)The ICE and suporting subsystems in the Volt cost probably around $2k.. no idea on the cost of the 50kw generator and controller.. all this is added to the cost of making an EREV.
Development of such a beast is probably more expensive since the EPA gets involved when you use a pollution spewing engine, more testing is required, more software expenses etc.
So the EREV premium is probably around $4k, that would buy you about an extra 6kwh of battery capacity at current costs.. thus a Volt BEV with a 22kwh pack should cost about the same as an Volt EREV. As the cost of batteries drop in the future then that $4k will buy you an extra 20kwh worth of batteries. Its unlikely the cost of the genset will drop since that is a mature tech.
Mar 23rd, 2010 (11:42 pm)I love the games being played.
Take Care
Arch
+1
Mar 24th, 2010 (12:15 am)Hey Arch! Long time, no see. Good to have you back.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
Mar 24th, 2010 (12:32 am)Perhaps in a decade or so. But I think it will be a steady drop until that point.
Mar 24th, 2010 (12:34 am)I agree with the 12.8 kWh estimate for useful power. Plus the iMiev is lighter. That’s a plus. But the problem is the Volt will struggle to get 40 miles on the US06 drive cycle, which is a realistic drive cycle for NA. Add heating and cooling and some windy weather and the Volt might end up more in the mid to upper 20s, for some part of the year.
That’s OK for the Volt because with the genset it doesn’t matter all that much. But with an EV a few days like this and you’ll have a lot of unhappy people. The mini-E has a 35 kWh battery pack, and Lyle has found it to be borderline adequate. Half that is not going to cut it in NA, which is why Mitsubishi has no plans to bring the car to NA.
+1
Mar 24th, 2010 (12:36 am)I’m not sure Mark Reuss got the memo …
Mar 24th, 2010 (12:40 am)I’d think the cost was higher because the genset makes the entire system far more complicated on many fronts. This may be the reason Reuss said that EVs had an advantage in the longer run. (Like monitoring and calling for oil changes once a year). But the great advantage of EREV is that you remove range as a consideration. That’s worth a lot IMHO.
-1
Mar 24th, 2010 (12:45 am)Looking at the price of this vehicle, you have to wonder how GM can succeed in long term by reducing the price to below 40K? Just as Lutz suggested, they will always be losing money, always. No wonder GM insider doesn’t like this project.
Mar 24th, 2010 (1:03 am)That’s what I found too. It’s not exact, but close. I use the base price of the Civic hybrid and Prius in the UK (~£20k) vs $23-24 and came up with a pre-credit price of about £33,699 (the quote from Mitsu suggests this) means ~$40k in US or about the same price as the Volt. As you put it, anyone who has paid attention to the UK/US price conversion in cars knows not to expect the Ampera to cost £26k.
Given the iMIEV is intended to be in relatively low volume production (esp the current batch), it’s definitely not indicative of BEV prices when in the same volume as the Volt. People should wait for the Leaf pricing to be announced (plus ideally also the Volt pricing) before judging price differences.
Also, I don’t really get all the obsession with the Volt beating BEV prices. Even if the Volt does, to be a true success, it will have to target mainstream vehicles (like current hybrids are doing). Given people here are highly convinced that BEVs are niche vehicles, beating BEVs in price will not guarantee Volt success. Sure it may mean the Volt can cannibalize some BEV sales, but doesn’t really guarantee the Volt (or other plug-ins) will reach mainstream.
Mar 24th, 2010 (1:47 am)God what a joke.
Thank GOD for the VOLT!
Mar 24th, 2010 (6:22 am)Thanks Statik, my computations are in line with yours, I’m saving up to 30,000 € to buy my Ampera, hoping that 5,000 will be left over after incentives.
Best regards,
JC NPNS
Mar 24th, 2010 (6:23 am)Not surprising. Cars are very expensive in the UK. Especially when allowing for the exchange of currencies.
+1
Mar 24th, 2010 (6:31 am)I sincerly doubt the Volt will ever lose money if you exclude the research and development. Sure when you spend a couple billion to develop a car, you can argue the first 5 or 6 cars cost hundreds of millions, but thats a pretty weak arguement. The money the Volt is ‘losing’ is an investment in the future of the company, and a pretty small investment compared to some of their other science projects (Fuel Cells, 2 mode hybrid etc.).
At least wait until they have their production volumes above 5,000 per month with their own battery assembly and electronic control lines in full swing to determine if the Volt is losing money. By 2012 I think they will be able to sell the Volt for 30,000 or less and still make a profit. As long as the Government Rebate is in effect (200,000 cars?) they will be making money on each Volt. After 200,000 cars we’ll have to see how far down the cost of the components have come, but I would think by then EREV/BEVs will be close enough in price to comparable ICE cars that the gas savings will make up the rest of the difference.
Mar 24th, 2010 (6:37 am)Hi Nasaman,
I’m in the process to compute (under some stringent assumption) what are the microeconomic advantages to use a BEV in replacement of an ICE car, and I added a virtual Volt in my computations.
It all depends on the mileage you do and on the economic paradigm that is used.
For both scenarii, with western European data assuming equal material costs (the gain in simplicity of Evs and EREV being compensated by the cost of the battery or the consumer chosing to keep his material cost identical betewwen his former ICE car and is new BEV or EREV) , the gain of the consumer on the total ownership cost is estimated to vary between 20 and 45 %, if he charges his battery during the night, it is even better if an intelligent V2G scheme is used.
A Betterplace scheme model with conservative assumptions show no very significative gain for the consumer, so why bother with the constraints of an EV ?
best regards,
JC NPNS
That means
Mar 24th, 2010 (7:19 am)THey would have to pay me $58’000 to drive something that looks like that.
Mar 24th, 2010 (8:42 am)150 pre-orders?
Makes you wonder how many Mitsubishi competitors are in these pre-orders.
If you look at the car industry for the last 100 years its amazing how close all the car companies technology and designs are. Realistically after a 100 years you should see much more diversity such as the Prius. You could not have designed a better system of copying each other.
If you took the names off the cars and asked the average consumer who the manufacture and what is the model one would be very hard pressed to get even 12% accuracy.
Same goes for the Gasoline companies look how close their prices are to one another. After 100 years of making Petro one would believe that the profit and cost difference would be much more dramatic between companies.
So much for free and open markets.
Mar 24th, 2010 (9:11 am)FIRST THE LEAF KNOW THIS,COME ON JAPAN LOL LOL!!
Mar 24th, 2010 (10:24 am)#50
Amen. +1
Mar 24th, 2010 (10:30 am)With gas at $7 a gallon there, and rising, it’s affordable. Here in America, not really. The Volt has the hands down edge.
Mar 24th, 2010 (10:34 am)#75
Hell, I might, come to that. +1
Mar 24th, 2010 (10:36 am)#78
Ditto. +1 “The King of Links”
Mar 24th, 2010 (10:39 am)#81
LOL +1 Watch it, you’ll be down at the bottom of the list with me.
Mar 24th, 2010 (5:16 pm)$58K? EVs are dead if pricing continues to be that high.
Mar 25th, 2010 (7:41 am)Stupid car, stupid price, stupid buyers. Nothing like conning the public using obsolete and discredited environmental arguments. At least they’re fleecing morons. That’s good news.
Mar 26th, 2010 (5:57 pm)For comparison. This is the price the new Tesla Model S will sell UNDER. Look at that car compared to the iMiEV. Who knows how to make EVs??