Upon taking the helm, GM CEO and Chairman Ed Whitacre recognized the tremendous value and importance of the Chevrolet Volt.
He has admitted he wanted the Volts to roll out prior to the planned launch date of November 2010, even in small numbers. In an exclusive one to one interview with him, Mr. Whitacre told GM-Volt “I did ask them (the Volt team) ‘If I gave you another billion dollars could you get it out sooner? They said no because its all about testing.”
Even though full scale rollout couldn’t be done, Whitacre still wanted at least a few cars to get in the hands of the public early on. “We’re going to have a few out early,” he said
However, the Detroit Press has just learned that the company is becoming fearful about even letting a few cars into the public early.
Though some executives still want it to happen there are apparently obstacles. The plan has “a number of problems, and the car isn’t one of them” one source told the Free Press.
The Volt team is concerned the cars will still need routine “tweaks and changes” that go on right until rollout, that early cars won’t have in place. The could result in creating public misunderstandings that could lead to a public relations problem. The Volt is after all GM’s most important public relation move in decades.
Some executives therefore don’t want to chance any potential for a flawed launch and are strongly considering sandbagging the early Volt plan.
“There’s a lot of hard work that needs to be done between now and November, but the team remains on target to deliver,” GM spokesman Rob Peterson told the Free Press.
Source (Detroit Free Press)
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:07 am)So then then car isn’t really ready, is that what they are saying?
If the software can be upgraded via OnStar, what would be the problem???
If they released the early production vehicles to the right people (meaning us here at gm-volt.com), there would be no misunderstanding about how the car is supposed to work……
NPNS
+40
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:07 am)GM’s patience in wanting to get this car right has been admirable. I concur that it would be a strategic error to release a few early cars that have known flaws.
First impressions are lasting impressions — maybe not among EV partisans, but certainly among the general public.
To rush the car now would be very like the old GM management.
Let’s get the Volt’s wheels on the road, but let’s first get them in order.
+17
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:08 am)I think this is just another example of Ed getting “Ed-ucated” about the Volt. First, he thought it was a glorified golf cart. Then, he thought you could just trot these babies out ahead of schedule. My guess is that he’s finding out it is neither one.
+6
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:12 am)P.S. If they still launch in November, they will still be able to boast that the car came out on time.
I see no PR penalty for holding back on the early release. except among we fanactics who examine every turn of the screw.
However, if the car had been ready for early release, GM certainly mioght have received valuable feedback leading up to the actual launch.
+7
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:22 am)Beta test, beta test! GM-Volt.com formal beta test program.
Real world. Real results.
Oh, and do it by 7/4/2010 to make some extra happy.
+5
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:25 am)I don’t agree that it would be a mistake. A project driveway early release to some well screened testers should not be the PR nighmare that some would suggest.
Unless the changeover to CS mode or some other hardware/software situation really isn’t working correctly yet. But that is not what we are being told by the engineers. If the government crash testing is done, and they are at a hardware “freeze” point with the Volt, why not let the car have some real world testing done by end users in the field. Then, if there is some tweaking that needs to be done, they would have the time to get it done and installed before the first “for sale” models hit the showrooms in November.
I, for one, would be quite thrilled to put a Volt through a test for a month or two!!!! This has to be about twenty times I have made this shameless attempt!
Come on, GM – Go for it!!!!
NPNS
+20
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:35 am)First impressions are a big deal and the automotive press (and the press in general) like to heap on a magnify problems.
Be careful GM. By this time next year no one will care when the car was released but those initial review articles will still be on the web.
Get it right. November will be here soon enough.
+3
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:44 am)GM said they wanted to hold back on the Cruze until the transmission felt right. Wonder what the main concern is with the Volt? Did something turn up during the cold weather test period? Or is the late release of the Leaf combined with concerns of reverse engineering the issue?
Oh the drama
=D-Volt
+5
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:48 am)Why rush the thing? Doesn’t make any sense to me. Keep your schedule and don’t force it.
+6
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:58 am)No problems here not rushing the Volt. We want this as near perfect as possible. We have waited this long, and we all want to see this succeed!
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:03 am)The test engineers are hogging all the fun, I say. After two or three months of driving it around and not buying any gas, I think people will get the idea. They’ll forgive a lot for a car that uses no gas. Evey talk of delay gives me the political shakes. If NASA had been this way we would have never made it to the Moon!
+5
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:20 am)After reading the original article which is absolutely riddled with modifiers such as ” may this” and “might that”, I don’t know whether this info is a head fake or a double head fake. Heck, it may just be true and I don’t want to believe it – Naw.
If they are going to beta test with even a few staunch “believers”, I think they would be running out of time to do so very quickly. At least, if they were actually hoping to collect data. On the other hand, how else are they going to DETERMINE the tweaks necessary *without* gathering significant *real world* data? Mr. W’s quote just says “It’s all about testing”. Hmmmm (g)
I know that they have to get the order right – 1. Make sure that the Volt is as close to perfect as possible. 2. Then release it for sale. But the clock is ticking… It’s March now, 4 months to the best date possible for a release of a few for sale on “End-Dependence Day” (copyright CJS). Or that date could still be the start of a few months of beta testing – not as dramatic, but it still “works”, I guess.
The shrink in me sees this article as a strategic leak of misinformation by GM (or I read too many mysteries).
I still see the best of both worlds happening. Significant beta testing in consumer’s hands, to find and allow the tweaks. Then a full fledged release for sale. The faithful have waited patiently – and we’ll obviously need to wait to see how GM actually decides to play it’s cards..
Be well (and be patient),
Tagamet
+5
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:34 am)I don’t see the benefit to GM in releasing any Volts early to consumers, and that’s especially true if they are thinking of releasing them for testing and feedback purposes. Almost by definition, testers will find problems. Why would GM want their customers to find those problems? Loyal or not, they will inevitably ramble on about their experiences–both positive and NEGATIVE–in various forums and the press. That sounds like a PR nightmare to me. And remember also that the Volt isn’t some experimental vehicle to test some dubious technology, like Project Driveway is, it’s actually going on sale THIS YEAR.
There are literally thousands of GM employees all around the world that could do real-world testing, so let them do it if GM feels the need to get some Volts out there early.
+14
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:51 am)I’m so sick of buying gasoline. First it’s the line. Then it’s the hole shotter that needs to drive around the pump to back in front of you. Then it’s the 10 minute Slurpy and hotdog driver that sets his fill nozzle rate to “maybe sometime this month”.
Once these EREV vehicles reach the consumer. There will be no turning back.
=D-Volt
+15
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:56 am)Guys, you are forgetting that Volts are being driven virtually 24/7 as we speak, by real people. Their feedback to GM is at least as valuable as ours would be if we were doing the testing! I’m real sure they know a whole lot more about the development process and the need for final “tweaking” before the rollout than we do. Let’s just keep hoping that all goes well and the rollout stays on time for November.
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:58 am)Tweeks or not, I strongly feel some early NFS releases to the dealers so they can begin the education needed for this vehicle is critical.
Any salesperson worthy of the name, will happily explain the latest mods to be in the actual Volt, and how the actual Volt will be even better than the demo model the customer is driving.
GM, for real world testing and exploding order lists, give the post independence day models to the dealers. After actual release you can always ask for them back, cough, cough.
One to one hands on training and education is what’s needed for the Voltec driving experience. Hell I bet Corvette Man would even offer to drive his dealerships one down from Warren. He might want a tour of the battery lab though lol.
Regards from down under.
LJGTVWOTR
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:03 am)If you really want to gain a *renewed* sense of appreciation of what a great site we have here, read some of the 50+ comments posted by readers of the Detroit Free Press article.
Be well and thankful!,
Tagamet
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:07 am)If they wanted to release some to a few consumers who could use it like crazy, but also had another car in case the Volt had to go back or be tweaked some, I would definitely do that. I am so excited about the step closer to not sending money to people that hate us…can’t wait for the day of the news report that the Middle East is having trouble finding buyers for their oil reserves. Wishful thinking???
-2
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:07 am)The reason given seems sound to me – I would file it under “why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.
But that being the case, why could GM not get it right earlier? I do not want to naysay the folks who have left and are leaving, but just as Toyota’s safety and reliability culture needs refocused, it would seem GM has a way to go in order to walk the talk of being lean and efficient.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:08 am)“If you want it to ship, shoot the engineer(s)”
(An old phrase/proverb from R&D )
I sure hope they’re not going to wait on the engineers to be done “tweaking”. Good engineers are never done tweaking. That’s why engineers are not the only people on these kinds of projects.
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:16 am)Actually, I believe GM is making a big mistake by not getting at least a few hundred of these out early.
First, automotive engineers think like automotive engineers. That is a good thing, but also a bad thing. You can develop the smoothest, quietest, best performing EV on the planet, but if the wife thinks it’s cramped, hard to get into, too confusing, or lacking convenient cupholders for the morning coffee, it can be a deal breaker.
The other aspect is trying to anticipate the worst. I can’t remember the exact expression, but it’s something like “It’s impossible to make something foolproof, because they keep making better fools.”
Now I’m not advocating for finding fools to take the early Volts, but what I am saying is that by putting more Volt’s in the hands of consumers, it is possible to discover problems/issues that weren’t anticipated by the Volt Team.
I personally think GM should take applications from GM-Volt enthusiasts, as well as maybe some of their best customers around the US, and let us test these puppies for about 5 or 6 months before the initial launch. I’m sure this will only provide more improved press, as well as helping to find glitches that they hadn’t anticipated.
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:16 am)I have my deposit waiting, let them roll out…
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:36 am)I have to disagree with you on this one. By definition, GM employee feedback WILL differ from that of someone who walked in off the street to test drive a Volt. Their perceptions of what is or is not an issue is going to differ because of their vested interest and, more importantly, what’s significant and what’s not. They are much more likely to notice something and respond by thinking “Oh, that’s something that such and such dept will deal with downstream”. We don’t KNOW the sequence of which dept deals with which issues, and THEY may well not be “looking at” things that, for lack of a better term, a more “normal” customer might see as an issue.
Admittedly, our group isn’t “disinterested” either, but I think that we hold an advantage over a random selection of people, because we want to see the Volt succeed. Therefore we *would* point out the little things (quietly), all the while talking up the great points to family and our communities. JMO.
Be well,
Tagamet
+3
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:38 am)They are building a few hundred before roll out so someone will be driving them early.Why not put those testers in the hands of guys like Lyle to evaluate,and insist on editing any public comment about them until roll out. (you don,t want your competition to know everything you are doing)
+8
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:39 am)Maybe they are re-evaluating the driver-side floor mats…
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:43 am)I vote for that
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:52 am)Good points especially concerning how users never use your product like the engineers think they will. But they need to do this in a hurry. If they wait much longer they may get valuable feedback but it will be too late in the process.
Then again they don’t have a lot of cars to work with, so any car that went to a user would be one less test car in the hands of an engineer. If that’s the choice I’d stay with the engineer. You’ll get better testing with the engineer overall because they’re more aware of what they’re doing and what they’re looking for.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:59 am)It’s absolutely amazing that anyone would think that a car that uses no gas would for any reason not be successful. The only valid reasons IMO is if the car didn’t move when you pushed the accelerator, or stop when you pushed the brake. If the engineers are having these types of problems, then we are in big trouble. Notice I said “we”, meaning the buying public has a problem, not GM.
+4
Mar 1st, 2010 (10:01 am)On the other side…. I believe that all the Chevy dealerships that will be selling the Volt should get some extensive training on the Volt as to not to discourage people from buying the car. And I am not just talking about the service departments.
Even with my 2010 Fusion Hybrid… almost half the sales people I talked to … knew less about the car than I did… and that does not make for a good sales pitch when you are correcting the sales person.
GM… you have to step up to the plate and make sure that ALL the Chevy dealerships have their sales staff fully trained so they know at least as much as all the faithful readers here.
Mar 1st, 2010 (10:09 am)off topic – But is there any on fixing the bug in the new version of the site that hides the first letter of every line in the comments? Its getting really annoying having to guess the word!
-12
Mar 1st, 2010 (10:20 am)(click to show comment)
+15
Mar 1st, 2010 (10:21 am)Capt. Kirk “Scottiee, I need the Volt’s cs mode working so we can get to earth before the Nissan’s do.”
Scottie “Captain, I need until November 1st. or the batteries could crap out.”
Kirk “Bones go down there and give Scottie a hand.”
Bones “Captain, I’m just a country doctor, not an electrical engineer.”
Kirk “Yes, but maybe you could tell him when the engine feels right.”
Scottie “Captain, with all due respect, I could get the engines goin faster if you just let me tweek them myself.”
October 1st.
Scottie “Captain, the Volt’s cs mode is working perfectly now!”
Kirk “Scottie, your a miracle worker! Now let’s get to Earth and save man kind!”
The Beginning
+14
Mar 1st, 2010 (10:26 am)Okay… Let me have one of the first VOLTs off the line.
Need to call me back in for a ‘firmware update’? No problem. Happy to do so.
Need to call me back in to fix a sticking accelerator pedal? That’s okay too. I’m good.
Want to download all kinds of data from my OnStar account for analysis? Sure. Go for it.
As long as I can drive my VOLT by my local gas station and mentally wave my middle finger at Saudi Oil Sheiks, Texas Oil Barons, Crazy Venezualan and Iranian Dictators, I don’t give a rats what minor inconveniences I have to deal with.
It would still be worth it.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (10:31 am)I read an article about the Equinox and while praising the vehicle, the author chides GM for always botching up their first gen vehicles when the competition doesn’t and then they surprise everyone with a decent 2nd gen but by then it’s too late. That is the old GM of course (let’s hope) and maybe the Volt won’t turn out that way. I am just saying this because it seems like customer feedback is key to making a nice vehicle for GM.
If I were GM I would take like 50 of these Volts (they have like 300 by now, no?) and put them in the hands of average people FOR A WEEK OR TWO. That’s not going to put you behind schedule, but you still get valuable feedback on what they think could be tweaked. Ask them not to tell anyone else about the experience, or post anything online etc.
If there is an issue with the car needing to be tweaked, I am guessing it’s the engine “missed gear” rev that the bloggers were talking about, or something similar, and they are still tweaking that they are embarrassed about.
+6
Mar 1st, 2010 (10:31 am)I’m not sure how GM sticking to their official announced November delivery date is back pedaling?
+5
Mar 1st, 2010 (10:33 am)In my experience, this is always the case. The sales guys don’t know every technical detail (such as ‘where is the emergency jack?’). Educated consumers know what they want and have already examined all the options.
The last two new cars I bought, I was shopping for a sales guy, not a car. I already knew what car I wanted, what it should cost, what my financing options were, etc. etc. The sales guy was needed to expedite the process.
+3
Mar 1st, 2010 (10:40 am)They can always give it early to some people, but with strict NDAs. That way they get all the feedback – without any PR problems …
+4
Mar 1st, 2010 (10:42 am)To most of GM, this is just another launch. We are lucky they are keeping us in the loop as to progress.
I didn’t even know that there was a new Taurus for 2010 until I saw one on the road. And I subscribe to several car magazines. You just don’t know what it is until you see one in person.
If I were GM, I would keep this car under close NDA wraps right up until the last minute. There is technology here that the competition would love to see well before launch. Has anyone outside GM even seen under the hood yet?
As far as ‘non car people’ driving the thing. GM has plenty of housewives and other folks in their organization that are not that savvy about automobiles and design. I would think that they have several thousands that would drive a Volt for a couple weeks and give some detailed feedback on what works and what doesn’t.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (10:43 am)You are SO RIGHT!!!
Sorry to our dealership friends here on this site.
Maybe your and your dealership are good and take care of your customers but in my 43 years I’ve yet to come across a dealership that doesn’t feel like you are being stalked by vampires. (not the pretty kind)
The last new car we bought is our Subaru, fantastic car… brutally bad dealer ‘service’.
They are VERY nice at the Land Rover dealership but ‘rape’ you at the till… $30 for a ‘flipping’ oil filter…
I bought the Malibu privately, so have only been to the dealer to get a few dealer only parts.
Interestingly the guy at the GM dealer parts counter said “I’m sorry” when I told him I had a ’98 Malibu… strange, mine runs fine with no major issues…
(Needed a replacement Power steering hose.)
Dealer training on all models for both sales AND service with very strict controls on ‘dealer markup’ and fair treatment of customers with their after purchase service are absolutely critical for the long term success of GM.
Because right now the entire industry (all makes) have overwhelmingly bad service.
There may well be a few good dealers out there, I just have never met one.
+10
Mar 1st, 2010 (10:58 am)Exactly. I think GM is making the right decision. They should do all the beta testing they can before releasing them to the general public. When the actual Volt is released to the public, it won’t be perfect either. No first gen product ever is. But it will, hopefully, have a lot less bugs than it would if they did a pre-release.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:12 am)Oh, that’s good… +10 (Now I’ll have to back-date some emails and make it look like *I* came up with the term
“Buy and electric car and celebrate End-Dependence Day!”
I didn’t mind seeing Toyota taking a few hits on quality, but I believe there has been too much “piling on” and that it is making the GM team nervous. ALL new / innovative products will have minor bugs, but we can’t let that stop progress towards the critical goal of independence from foreign oil. The software team has a really tough challenge to make a hybrid conventional/regenerative braking system “feel” *exactly* like conventional, wear prone, brakes.
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:16 am)I hate to say I told you so, but I warned CorvetteGuy and Nasaman about getting on the transporter pad at the same time.
EDIT: LOL, I just saw Blind Guy’s post. Hehheh, two ST references in one thread, how delightfully corny.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:16 am)GM, I will personally de-bug your car…even buy a flyswatter. Will test it for free, keep capricious notes and never do anything but praise you to the press.
Jacksonville, Florida, a perfect testing ground!
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:18 am)EVERY day someone buys an electric car is End-Dependence Day! Nice!
(Tag stole the phrase from me before I even had a chance to come up with it… )
+3
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:22 am)@ CapJack + Tagamet both: That’s frickin’ inspired, my friends. We need to latch onto this slogan. SO DOES GM.
+4
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:22 am)Let’s see, a car that can do your lowest MPG driving senarios with grid power, has the potential to sell power to the grid while you are working or sleeping, has the potential to power your house during a power outage with gasoline, and people think it might not sell because the cupholders are in the wrong place, or the back seat is too hard. Not to mention that in all likelyhood, what we are talking about here is whether 250,000 people want one, but they are sold out, or 198,000 want one after they are sold out.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:29 am)Is getting a few 300 mile range VOLTS out 90 days earlier more important than ‘…“tweaks and changes” ..’ and upping fuel capacity? Indeed, anything increasing range towards the 600 mile goal (GM’s original stated goal) – say 500 mile range ensures 6 digit production following first sales. In other words, PR releases do not trump range increases. (And reliability confidence.)
-5
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:33 am)So if our computers can update via the web and our cell phones and our Kindles can update OTA using 3G connections, why can’t they update the Volt the software via a link to OnStar? Obviously never update when the car is being driven and only update with the permission of the driver, but updating software is a rather reliable process for almost every piece of software now. Can GM really not figure that piece out?
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:46 am)For a very long time, I’ve been pressing for the symbolism of Independence (from oil) Day, but Captn Jack gets credit for the “End-Dependence Day” word-smith genius.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!! NPNS!
+3
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:51 am)Software updates can be seamless, if you are lucky.
The problem is that it doesn’t always work properly.
I’m STILL recovering from a terribly bad ‘upgrade’ to my Android based HTC Dream over a month ago.
The first Volts SHOULD be very well monitored hands on.
Want to make a good impression? Setup a first gen Volt support team who drive out to the customer and do the upgrade/data collection onsite.
+4
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:53 am)All I’d add to your post is that that is your opinion. Apparently, some folks share it, some don’t. Personally, I think a trouble free 300 miles beats the snot out of 600 miles of annoyances. JMO.
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:56 am)OT So, I’m wondering if for gen. 2 or 3 if there is a way to get a reasonable flow of fresh outside air without lowering windowsand without using HVAC or even a fan. If it can be designed to open windows without affecting the air drag would probably be the most desireable. If there is a way to get a comfortable flow of air in a vent without affecting drag too much would be nice to help save electricity and extend electric only range. A PV panel on the roof could power a vent fan but that would raise the price more then some people would like.
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (12:16 pm)Yes, this has to do with marketing the Volt.
Because the only thing cooler than Steve McQueen in LeMans is electric drive:
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1042988_tag-heuer-and-tesla-team-up-for-special-one-off-roadster
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (12:34 pm)The connection for those who don’t know how to play connect the dots. Look at the watch on Steve McQueen’s wrist:
+7
Mar 1st, 2010 (12:37 pm)Top priority: get it right. It’s Nissan who ought to worry about consequences of rushing to be first out of the gate — the LEAF needs the spotlight to itself for its best chance of market penetration among EVangelical buyers. Once the Volt debuts, it will be autumn for the LEAF.
+7
Mar 1st, 2010 (12:39 pm)I know we are all excited and want VOLTEC ASAP.
But as we all know, this is a whole new paradigm in automotive transportation.
I applaud GM for not rushing it out, but instead taking all the time needed to get it right.
There is a WHOLE LOT riding on this. For GM. And for our Nation.
GM has now become the WORLD LEADER in electric car technology!
(Makes me very proud of GM for the first time in a LONG time.)
VOLT HAS TO BE RIGHT WHEN IT IS LAUNCHED!
Those next few months will fly by…
-4
Mar 1st, 2010 (12:43 pm)Tagamet #51- AMPERA which is a VOLT identical just completed a 370 mile trip over several hours. This trip was widely reported per Euro press. Here the VOLT barely gets 300 miles. Why is that? What’s more, this trip was acclaimed as a EV ER groundbreaking event. Trouble free. Whereas VOLT has been in distance testing for some time now. There can be absolutely no doubt GM Leadership is sandbagging VOLT range. Likely for [partially] marketing reasons and [partially] accounting reasons. But in no way for reliability reasons.
Mar 1st, 2010 (12:44 pm)This should be a political speach. I’d vote for the guy who says this in a debate, as long as he kept his campaign promises.
Mar 1st, 2010 (12:55 pm)I’ll vote for that. Couldn’t agree more. But it will be hard to respect the NDA since everybody will ask you questions about that mystery car you are driving. So it should be a Positive Disclosure Agreement for those who will ask questions ;- )
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (12:59 pm)#7
I have to put in with you there. +1
I used to be all hot for the sort of pre-release, GM-Volt.com blogger, beta testing idea. I volunteered about 100 times, as have so many others here, LOL.
In light of the current Tojo fiasco, I have now come to believe that discretion is, alas, the better part of valor. One could almost get the idea that GM saw this coming.
As Rashiid has said so many times, they’ve gotta get it right the first time. Patience!
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:03 pm)Uncontested. All I was saying is that for some of us, the range in a tank-full of fuel isn’t as important an issue as it is for others. Few of us are blessed with an iron bladder like nasaman’s, or we need to stretch our legs every few hours. Don’t discount the Baby Boomer Bubble. (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:05 pm)Worse : it would ge a strategic error to release a few early cars with unknown flaws that testing might help find.
+6
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:07 pm)We all like to say, “Oooh, let me test it, I won’t complain about a few bugs!!”, but when your wife and kids are killed in a crash due to a software glitch in regen braking we’ll see if there are any complaints. That’s the whole problem — liability. Don’t think that the 80 (or whatever) test Volts won’t be crushed at the end of the test program. Maybe they will keep one for a museum if we’re lucky, but you can bet it will be made undrivable.
And sadly, if someone got into a serious crash which was 100% their fault, don’t think they wouldn’t file a lawsuit blaming the prototype nature of the vehicle for the crash.
So don’t hold your breath about getting to be a Volt tester unless you work for GM. The months will go by quickly anyway.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:09 pm)#54
My man! thanks. +1
My wife dragged me to see “Crazy Heart” this weekend, which I ended up really enjoying. If nothing else, the T-Bone Burnett sound track is beautiful and worth the price of admission, as always. We were just talking this AM about how much it reminded me of “Junior Bonner”. Especially the opening sequences, where Jr. Bonner was driving across new Mexico in his clapped out 1961 Caddy convertible, and the Jeff Bridges character is driving across same in his clapped out 1978 Suburban. A nice homage to old GM vehicles, if nothing else.
One of my favorite movie lines, which I have quoted about 1000 times, is from “Le Mans”. the McQueen charcters said:
“When you’re out there on the track, that’s life. Everything else is just waiting.”
+7
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:20 pm)Um… that’s a *not*!
For those of us in IT/IS, we still cringe if a user has auto-update for Microsoft’s Tuesday mess.
In my company, we don’t allow Microsoft ‘automatic’ updates. They are controlled-released after testing in the lab.
For Volt, it should be a ‘come to the dealer for service’ thing rather than a ‘slam your computer with an update’ thing. At least for the first couple of years. If they don’t do updates now in another car (I don’t think I have seen where OnStar ‘updates’ anything.) then they shouldn’t launch it with Volt.
I am thinking that there are thousands of lines of code in these computers that hasn’t been live-tested for hundreds of thousands of miles. It’s a ‘yikes’ moment when you release your version 1.0 code out into the wild.
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:25 pm)#14
I resemble that remark, LOL! +1
At least I gave up the slurpies, since my blood sugar got so bad, if that makes you feel any better.
+3
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:25 pm)I thought the “posted” range for the volt was 40 AER plus ~300 in CS – 340mi vs 370mi is not that big a deal to me also I think the details in the Ampera road trip indicated that the crew stopped once for fuel during the trip.
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:26 pm)#51
Amen. +1
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:33 pm)#55
Very good! +1
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:38 pm)#65
You got that right! +1
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:43 pm)“The plan has “a number of problems, and the car isn’t one of them” one source told the Free Press.”
This is what the Volt faithful need to take from this article.
+5
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:47 pm)You work for Microsoft, don’t you?
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:55 pm)Off Topic response…
Loboc,
I’ve spent a good part of my career managing patching (Mostly Servers) and you are not wrong. Corporate networks and applications can be pretty sensitive. (Please read old and too expensive/impossible to update!)
Although I’ll tip my hat to MS just a bit, I haven’t had any problems with patches in quite a while. A few years back… I had to have a full lab of production clone machines that I individually could test patches on. It’s much less of an issue now.
For the record though, home users; turn ON the auto patching for god sakes!
The risk of some form of virii damaging your machine is MUCH higher than any risk of damage from patches. More than 90% of virus infections are for issues that there are fixes for that were just not applied! Pretty hard to complain about lost data when the fix had been issued long before you ran across the problem!
+4
Mar 1st, 2010 (1:59 pm)Visit the Mac forums after an iPhone update. Wide-scale updating via OnStar, automatically? The horror! The horror!
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (2:09 pm)Given this reasoning, GM would never conduct a program where totally untested technology would be placed in the hands of civilians. And *surely*, not if the fuel was highly combustible AND held in a fuel tank at pressures of 5000 psi to 10000 psi! They’d have to be clueless.
Or maybe not…
Equinox Fuel Cell is an electric vehicle powered by the GM fourth-generation fuel cell system, our most advanced fuel cell propulsion system to date. The electric motor traction system will provide the vehicle with instantaneous torque, smooth acceleration and quiet performance.
Although these vehicles aren’t available to purchase, they’re already receiving recognition from Green Car Journal. The Chevy Equinox Fuel Cell was given its 2008 Green Car Vision Award®,3 the first time the magazine has recognized a limited production vehicle for its forward-thinking technologies. The Equinox Fuel Cell won the award over several nominees, including the Honda FCX Clarity and Toyota Prius Plug-In.
-Project Driveway
Sorry, I got carried away.
Be well,
Tagamet
+3
Mar 1st, 2010 (2:09 pm)GM is doing it right… We can wait for a proper vehicle … let the Milford proving grounds do a proper job… Buick didn’t get to be the most reliable brand by rushing things.
Mar 1st, 2010 (2:16 pm)I have not had time to read all the comments, so forgive me if I repeat someone’s earlier comment.
What about the several hundred GM talked about releasing to the “public” this summer for testing. I understood that those would be given to employees, certain “groups” and some to the “general public”. I define the general public like Dr. Dennins and myself, to name just two examples. Of course, there are many on this web-site that are deserving of that honor (much more than myself). But, you know what I mean.
So, what about that, GM? I am ready, willing and able to test a Volt. As are many of us here.
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (2:30 pm)Get it right GM- We’ve come so far… I can wait when it’s 100%
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (2:31 pm)I’ll probably wait for 2.0 anyway. I want the E-85 version.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (2:55 pm)In other news, Tesla is now offering to lease the roadster. The payments start at $1658 a month, but there are all sorts of other fees involved including, but limited to, a $12,453 a signing payment.
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2010/tc20100225_189974.htm
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (2:58 pm)..and it’s safe to assume all those Equinox FC vehicles have been rounded up and crushed by now, to avoid any future liability issues.
As others have mentioned, GM has plenty of possible testers outside of the engineers. Give one to a blonde secretary for a real test (that will get me in trouble I can tell).
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (3:20 pm)The longer they wait to release the Volt the longer their Sales stagnate. The populous is waiting for the Volt. If GM can move the release month ahead a month or two, it should be because they are ahead of schedule not because they want to have the public test for them. Any new product could have real or misconceived bugs. Have faith in your engineers GM. If they say it’s ready then it’s ready.
NPNS!
+9
Mar 1st, 2010 (3:26 pm)Onstar currently is NOT involved with software/firmware updates, and it is no anticipated to do so on the Volt. (not sure where you’re getting this bad data)
These types of updates require an electrically controlled vehicle state that is best managed in the service bay. This is because of the multiple networked modules being used must ALL be updated in a precise sequence controlled by specialized hardware and software.
When I last updated my 2-mode hybrid Tahoe it took nearly 60 minutes while it reflashed (in order of occurrence) – Motor Control Module 1, Motor Control Module 2, Battery Energy Control Module, Electronic Brake Control Module, Accessory Power Module, Power Steering Module, Air-Conditioning Control Module, Engine Control Module, and finally the Hybrid Control Processor.
GM has carefully planned this sequence in order to prevent conflicts that can occur when software is updated in one or more modules but not in others. So they are ALL brought up to the latest calibrations in a sequence designed to prevent such conflicts or performance issues.
Then afterwards, there a numerous required “relearn” and “reset” processes that must be completed by the technician (after clearing any false DTCs set during the process), and monitoring that specific diagnostic routines have all RUN, and PASSED.All this before putting the 2-mode hybrid back on the road.
It wont be much different for the Volt. Onstar will not be able to accomplish these tasks.
GM wont release the Volt to public consumption until completing their due diligence with respect to software. It cant be any other way.
HTH
WOT
Mar 1st, 2010 (4:02 pm)Wow, sad/sorry to see your post received a “-1″. I honestly never check the numbers on my posts since they tend to be realistic (or negative, choose your term). I also have never +’d or -’d anyone else’s posts.
I thought the point of downgrading someone was to get rid of really dumb or off-topic posts, not simply posts you disagree with?
I disagree with the guy who recently said a heavy car and a light car would use the same amount of electricity, since that goes against basic F=ma physics, but I didn’t rate him down for it. Oh well.
Mar 1st, 2010 (4:11 pm)That’s pretty much my understanding of their use. I’d probably add abusive verbiage as a reason to downgrade too, but not an opinion with which I disagree. I know that some hand out +’s if they agree strongly – it just saves typing.
Be well,
Tagamet
+4
Mar 1st, 2010 (4:13 pm)I don’t get all this passion over more range. I definitely need a break every four or five hours when I’m on a long trip. And I really don’t want some hulking 16 gallon gas tank eating into my trunk space. Too many trips to the gas station? What a laugh. If I didn’t take the Volt on any long journeys, I expect I’d have to fill my 8 gallon tank maybe once a month … or once a quarter. … Once a year? Oh, the joys of being retired! I can’t wait!
Mar 1st, 2010 (4:27 pm)There’s only one problem with this logical argument – it doen’t make much sense. If those
fearful executives think they are guaranteeing a flawless launch be going later rather than a little earlier, I’d say they must be seeing an awful lot of tweaking going on these days. Those tweaks surely would be electronic in nature, and thus can’t be a big economic issue.
+4
Mar 1st, 2010 (4:43 pm)The Volt uses state of the art technology and no one has ever made such type of car before so I think it is wise to take enough time to test the Volt thoroughly.
Mar 1st, 2010 (4:45 pm)Which can only mean that it comes from Marketing, or from high up in the “Adminosphere.”*
Probably somebody is scared of what’s happening to Toyota; rightly or wrongly:
“The plan has ‘a number of problems, and the car isn’t one of them’”
Never underestimate the power of hidden Corporate politics, or the predilection of Marketing to eschew logic (in any company). On the other hand, Sales is something of a black art, not much amenable to logic; so perhaps we’d better withhold judgment.
That just leaves Corporate politics; to which I can only say “who knows?” Maybe they are afraid of losing control of the technology prematurely, or maybe Ed needs to remind the engineers who is in charge. We can really only speculate, here.
*Adminosphere: that strata of any organization from which ideas and directives fall, most of which burn up on re-entry
EDIT: Just thought of something. Such a program would allow time/distance measuring of CS-mode mpg. Could they be that afraid of releasing this figure early?
Mar 1st, 2010 (5:01 pm)… and here’s an idea of a less conspiratorial nature:
Maybe after the recent winter testing program, they’d like to do more extensive summer testing before sending the Volt ‘down the chute’ in any capacity. 2010 hot weather testing would have scarcely begun by the time early “Project Driveway” Volts could roll out: a late-inning hot-weather issue would appear during the pre-release program instead, where it would attract much more unwanted attention.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (5:19 pm)I also don’t get the range anxiety (not enough gas tank capacity). I’d be happy if it went 225 or so miles since I also don’t go for long trips that often. If I stop every 2 hours for rest (and fuel) that’s less than 125 miles. My current truck only goes 325 or so. That’s way more than enough.
Plus, an extra 10gal of gas is about 65 pounds ya really don’t need for every day.
Now, if there was room, and the tank had a bladder so the gas wouldn’t slosh around, then I might go for a tank I could carry 2 gallons most of the time and 16 gallons for long trips.
It just doesn’t make sense for all this extra engineering though for the 1% of owners that want more tank and less trunk space. That’s what aftermarket tanks are for.
+5
Mar 1st, 2010 (5:31 pm)I am perfectly okay with waiting until November.
The last thing GM needs is more bad press.
Mar 1st, 2010 (5:39 pm)I’m not sure if you can believe in the “New GM” or not. This Volt project has been an in an out project for GM for some unknown reason ($$$$$) for some time now. We sure don’t know what is told us, that is in deed, what it is. How much does Ed Whitacre really want to see the Volt out early. I’m sure he is going to bed dreaming ($$$$) about it.
Just keep on track and get a good vehicle out and quit trying to play to the public on this Volt issue. People will get tired of it. SOON! I know I am.
Mar 1st, 2010 (5:58 pm)#80
Sorry, but I’m waiting for the rebate. Or maybe 0% apr, LOL. +1 for eagle eye.
Mar 1st, 2010 (6:15 pm)Let’s not mislead people. Don’t forget the need to cycle the engine every 60 days. You’ll still need gas for that. Let alone the gas needs for the battery preheat in the winter months!
Go EV!!!
Mar 1st, 2010 (6:22 pm)GM is right to make sure it ready. Get it right the first time.
Much as I’d like to have one to tool around in, I can see their point in not having a bunch of “Experts” experimenting & messing with them just yet.
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:01 pm)pKI03 #67/Itching4it #86: The NY TIMES reports the AMPERA trip as 560 km. (349 miles) while several media reports 600 km. Its still not clear if AMPERA stopped to take on more fuel. My best guess based on these same reports that no fuel stops were made. Google maps shows 360 miles. Its quite winding. From Google its a gorgeous drive. True a few couldn’t care less whether range is 300, 340 or more. Well… after reading lots of media on this drive – its the range that’s a big deal – a very big deal. One last quick point, range is tied directly to number of charges to durability. A 40 mile drive daily requires daily charges. Doing 300 miles a week beyond the 40 mile EV decreases the need for charges. Here’s the point — the driver has a choice of when to charge. This is vital to volume sales.
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:37 pm)*If* I had a Volt for a day, I would drive it to the dealer and try to buy one.
I would say to my favorite sales guy, “Hey I want to buy a Volt!”
He might reply, “How about a nice Camaro today!” I would say “Naw, I want a Volt like that one!” I would then point to the Volt I drove in. He would say “What! Where is my boss? We have no Volts!” He would then run off and find the boss. The boss would of course say, We have no Volts, and won’t have any for a long time. Then my salesman would ask the boss where did that Red Volt come from? The boss would say….
All the shirts would gather around the Red Volt and say how nice it is. You know, they did the same thing when my HHR came in. They had never seen a red hhr before. So it would be fun to have them see a red Volt. I think that would be almost as fun as driving past a gas station.
Cheers
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:39 pm)I hear talk about regenerative braking I was curious is there any reason why the suspension travel can’t be used to generate usable power.
+2
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:41 pm)Interesting info.
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:42 pm)You know, GM would not let me drive a early Volt. I would have to open up the hood and see if the Monkey is still there.
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:44 pm)We’re 24 hours closer than my last post. Glad the number of ticks are fewer now.
CHEVY VOLT: AMERICAN-MADE, AMERICAN-FUELED. God bless this country.
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:51 pm)Or the Tesla Credit Card points!
Be well,
Tagamet
Mar 1st, 2010 (7:59 pm)The key is to whom do early release cars go? If they are supporters, early adopters and EV enthusiasts – early release should be considered like an IT hardware /software beta release. You WANT friendly people to drive your cars and tell you what they like, dislike, don’t understand, request, etc.
A problem with PR arrives only if these people are hounded by press or they go to the press out of school. Which is why we have non-disclosure agreements for products in development. I think they should minimally release cars to GM employees and dealers and instruct them NOT to talk to the press.
Mr. Whitacre wants the early buzz to assist his launch. This can be done and the information returned from beta drivers may actually improve the official launch. Getting consumer opinion on new products is always valuable. Getting user opinions on game changing technology is a necessity for a successful launch.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:09 pm)It’s not at all tough to do, but you totally lost me on this one. I can choose to charge, or not to charge, regardless of the gas tank size. Right now, I choose not to charge my Jeep at all, but of course, it’s AER is zero. And I can still choose to spend ten minutes to get gasoline, if I need it. Just to be clear, you’re belief is that gasoline range is “vital to volume sales“?
Be well,
Tagamet
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:14 pm)Shocks that can do this exist as prototypes.
Maybe for the next generation as an option, for now it’s complicated enough!
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:24 pm)#106
Yeah, me too, but I was too embarrassed to mention it, LOL. Thanks. +1
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:24 pm)When you’re right, you’re really right!
Be well,
Tagamet
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:29 pm)I’m glad you posted, because *I* was embarrassed. I just figured that he’d help me out (then again, I’m an optimist)(g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:30 pm)#106
If they can do that, maybe they can run the ride height up and down too and save the spoiler/tailpipe. They have some now that adjust the damping via some sort of magnetic material in the fluid or some such wizardry. So why not?
Have you ever seen how they change flats on a Citroen DS or SM? They have a little steel tube strut that fits into a jack point on the side of the car. No jack. You run the suspension up to the top of its travel, stick in the strut, and run it back down to the bottom. Viola, the wheels on the side with the strut are in the air. Actually, those hydraulic actuators function as the springs/shocks, so there’s not much new under the sun.
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:49 pm)Plus they were interconnected, when one went up another went down. That would give a very smooth ride. Never been anything better over frost heaves. Expensive, yes. Complicated, Very.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (8:55 pm)Yes, take the time and get it right. No margin for serious issues like those Toyota has brought on itself – in terms of quality and the subsequent PR miscues.
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:10 pm)I think GM is making the right choice. They have nothing really to gain by delaying the release a couple months and everything to lose.
Given the Toyota recall the last thing you would want in the news is a recall notice right around the time of the full release. It won’t really matter that the cars only went to beta testers, the conservative talk shows and news agencies will start talking about how the Volt doesn’t work and is severely flawed. If that starts it is very difficult to change public perception even on facts (personally I think its impossible to get facts from any news agency these days).
Windows Vista suffered from this when it came out. The original release was so terrible it did not matter that most of the major issues were resolved later. By the time the major issues were fixed, Microsoft was trying to distance itself from the name in their marketing campaigns while trying to still sell the product. Eventually Microsoft had to build Windows 7 in a rush (which still uses the Vista Kernal) with a few minor changes.
We have all waited years for the release, a couple months longer is not going to make a big difference.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:24 pm)I definitely think GM can benefit from the feedback of a few carefully-selected beta testers.
For example, I am an electrical engineer with 20 years experience in aerospace electrical systems. Because I have wanted an electric car for many years (I’m even thinking about building my own.), I’d be willing to offer my services for FREE to GM as a Volt beta tester. Included would be:
- I would honor an NDA. Having experience with military programs, I know how to keep my mouth shut.
- I would be willing to execute rigorous test regimes and report the results per GM’s specifications.
- I would understand that the vehicle will have glitches. It may even go “Toyota” on me. With the proper “flight test” safety systems (i.e., emergency stop button) and reasonable access to GM engineer’s advice, I’d be willing to indemnify GM.
Why? Even though currently employed, I would still enjoy the privilege of contributing to the development of a revolutionary vehicle. In return, GM will get feedback and test data that they can use to ensure the success of the Volt launch.
+4
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:38 pm)Since when is on target, back-pedaling? I am amazed at anyone who can successfully predict/plan a launch date years in the future and not have it slip. The Volt team has never wavered from the November 2010 date. Did Tesla meet their date? How about Fisker? Coda? Tata’s Indica EV? Nobody has met their announced date yet.
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:46 pm)Let’s face the reality of the big picture. The 2011 model year is already sold out. The first 8000 are collectors items.
GM will catch traction with the Volt during the first full year of production (2012 model year). It will be wise for GM to offer Volt to State governments. And to also make the Volt widely available at Alamo, Hertz, Budget, and Avis.
For many, this will be the first time they have driven a GM product in years.
=D-Volt
Mar 1st, 2010 (9:47 pm)ATTENTION GM! I told Bob G not to tell you all that stuff about me and he BLABBED! You can’t trust the guy!
And he LIED about the engineer part – I’m a shrink, so I can REALLY keep a confidence!
I hope I warned you in time!
Tagamet
+1
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:20 pm)Take your time, get it right GM. What’s a few months anyway?
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:24 pm)Hell, if they were really worried I’d give them another year. Although I wouldn’t like it I would understand it if they wanted to make it perfect.
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:24 pm)November is around the corner… Why rush it?
Eugene
p.s. Audi is talking EREV for its A1 model. They plan to use a Wankel rotary engine for genset.
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:39 pm)Off Topic alert
I have not read all the comments so if this is redundant, sorry.
HybridCars is reporting from unnamed sources that GM has dropped the
Voltec Caddy, and in the same story indicates the Volt might have too big
a battery.
Mar 1st, 2010 (11:57 pm)I have to get an egg commercial over the info I want to read. WTF
Mar 2nd, 2010 (12:02 am)Hahaha. That is wrong! Didn’t you take an oath as a shrink to “do no harm”? Wow lmao that’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all day!
Mar 2nd, 2010 (12:02 am)How the heck, *at this point* could the Volt’s battery be “too big”?? AER 60 wouldn’t be a problem! I’m pretty sure it fits IN the car…
Be well,
Tagamet
Mar 2nd, 2010 (12:05 am)Harm? What harm? (g) I’m hoping that Bob feels that way too!
Be well,
Tagamet
Mar 2nd, 2010 (12:18 am)Lol you could ask bob if he needs any ointment for that BURN
Mar 2nd, 2010 (1:14 am)Nice catch! I doubt the battery is too small, meaning too energy limited. I’d suspect what they’re saying is that the battery needed to produce the acceleration times they’d want would be too expensive.
I’m fine with the decision to cancel. I’d rather GM concentrate on a more affordable EV than on a high priced low volume Caddy. Fisker and Audi can do the high cost low volume thing.
Liked the design though.
+2
Mar 2nd, 2010 (2:10 am)Can anyone spell “TOYOTA”? Do you think that maybe their recent troubles with the very simple issues of “drive by wire” accelerators in plain old ICE cars might be raising some caution flags with GMs engineers. The Volt is to a Camry about like a 767 is to a Sopwith Camel. They have an awful lot of software to verify and now a lot of very nervous lawyers that weren’t nearly so nervous two months ago.
Mar 2nd, 2010 (4:56 pm)I’m surprised that no one has brought up the obvious problems- that the first production Volt has not come off the assembly line yet. You HAVE to appreciate that there can be any number of problems associated with startup of manufacturing. This would not be a problem with the car, but with making the car. I can easily picture also that even after the first 2oo come off, that at least 3 months of additional testing is needed before releasing any to the public.
Mar 3rd, 2010 (7:42 pm)GM should wait until they are 100% ready before releasing this critical — and some might say radical — new platform. This is their shot to redeem themselves and a lot is riding on it. The public is largely uneducated about most things, especially what a Volt is, how it works, what makes it different. All it would take is one cable news talking head bashing GM (“government motors” to some) based on a sensationalized, half-true rumor of a test car’s performance to put a serious dent in the public perception of the Volt. Better they get it right than risk giving the nay-sayers ammunition. I would like one of these right now too, but I can wait.
P.S. My wife was not sure what made the Volt different than a Prius. She also had no idea what a “range extender” or “Extended Range Electric Vehicle” was. She does know what a “gas powered electric generator” is. We bought one at Home Depot! Also, “extended range” made the car sound very limited to her, whereas she does not think a “traditional” ICE powered car is limited at all. GM has some customer education issues to overcome I think.