Advanced Mechanical Products (AMP) is a company out of Cincinnati Ohio that specializes in producing all-electric conversions of GM vehicles. They have been producing electric versions of the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky since 2007.
The company has just annoucend and plan to unveil a new all electric Chevy Equinox conversion based on the current 2010 model.
AMP has signed a deal with REMY motors, a company that already supplies GM with its 2-mode hybrid electric motors, and is in fact using two of those same motors, the HVH250, for the conversion.
They motors will sit side by side, each turning one of the rear wheels, with no transmission, and have a combined peak power of 200kw. They are powered by a 37 kwh lithium-ion battery pack that enables the car to go from 0 to 60 in under 8 seconds and can reach a top speed of 90 mph. It will reportedly have a 150 mile driving range.
Steve Burns, CEO of Advanced Mechanical Products, said, “In a growing electric vehicle market, we believe AMP has clearly established itself as a pioneer. Not only will AMP be the first to reach the market, but we will also be breaking the mold in terms of what the public expects from an all-electric vehicle.”
“Pre-conversion, the Chevy Equinox is an outstanding vehicle in its own right – winner of the Consumer Digest Best Buy award and a five-star frontal and side-impact crash safety ratings. This vehicle is truly a modern day car, with all the features and stringent safety requirements the Chevy Equinox is extolled for. We are thrilled to bring our next 100% electric vehicle platform to market, as this latest offering is a clear display of our true passion for, and an unyielding commitment to, the environment and sustainability,” Burns added.
Burns told GM-Volt that the batteries are air-cooled, will have 80% capacity after 100,000 miles, and that the battery warranty is 3 years. Burns would not disclose the battery vendor at this time.
Through a local GM dealer AMP is currently taking orders for the vehicle, and they plan to begin deliveries in June of this year.
“We will be selling nationwide,” Burns added.
The price is expected to be under $50,000 after government tax credits.
Source (AMP)
+5
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:13 am)Nice! I hope Chevy brings out a hybrid version of this vehicle too. I would love to have one in a four wheel drive version.
+7
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:13 am)Most excellent! The more the merrier. I’m a little concerned about the battery warranty and the air cooled battery, but welcome aboard!
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:14 am)Thanks Lyle.
So how long to charge it? Did I miss it?
150 miles isn’t far, but it is better than 40.
I would buy this vehicle as a primary commuter. I could probably get 100 real miles out of the 150 miles.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:32 am)Assuming 70% utilization of the 37 KWH battery, that would mean it gets 6 miles per KWH, highly unlikely. A more reasonable estimated range for the 25 KWH would be between 3 miles and 4 miles per kwh, or 75 to 100 miles. And that seem too small of a range for a BEV. As I understand it, the conversion removes the engine, and thus it has no range extender.
+6
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:36 am)When aftermarket firms start doing these conversions like this with the help of GM suppliers, it is yet another benchmark for electrification and the venture capital funding of it.
Where 78% of commuters need less than 40 miles AER per day, a 150 mile AER might suggest propulsion only with electric heating, without an electric A/C compressor involved for the distance figure, not inclusive of the market down here in the Southwest. But still, that conversion might also include an electric A/C compressor conversion also, since GM has set the standards.
These would be some other great questions to ask.
Once the Volt price is announced in about 10 weeks, the starting-line gunshot will be heard, and venture capital will know precisely what they can and can not do.
If you thought that electrification advancement has been breathtaking for the last three years, it won’t be long before your head might be spinning also with the excitement.
There’s a pot of investment gold out there for the rightful taking in the saving of the motorist lots of gasoline money, and for all the properly-earned and resulting social benefits directly relating.
I’ll be buying a little NewGM stock when it becomes available too.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:44 am)Uncontested!
I’ve always found that head spinning issues are only problematic, if the body is *counter* rotating (g)
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:56 am)Wouldn’t the reduced weight (no engine, transmission, et.al.) have a positive effect on the AER? It *does* seem like the advertised EV ranges are almost universally significantly less than advertised though.
Anyone know what the price of these vehicles is from GM *without* the conversion? Just trying to get a sense for the difference. I assume that GM sells them the vehicle sans motor, transmission, etc though, so it’d be a really rough guess as to the EV “premium”.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+4
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:57 am)The Equinox would be a great vehicle to make a plug-in. It hits the sweet spot for size, style, performance, etc. But….
“The price is expected to be under $50,000 after government tax credits.”
Ouch. Suddenly the Volt sounds like a bargain.
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:59 am)GM is covering all bases and making all the right moves!
This vehicle will have many uses. Among the best uses, will be as a commuter vehicle…..needed in areas like the DC area.
+3
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:08 am)yawn. Another conversion lacking everything that will be in a well thought out production electric:
1) regenerative braking
2) battery cooling system
3) ideal battery placement (handling)
4) ideal charge-port placement
5) a real warrentee backed by a real auto company.
etc etc. Conversions are great personal projects, but a poor business model. Conversions of non-hybrid cars w/o regen breaking makes even less sense.
And what will this company do in 5 years when there are many EREV type vehicles to buy in show-rooms with warenteees from real companies.
+20
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:11 am)GM needs to look at the top selling vehicles and start developing Voltec/E-REV cars for those buyers first.
First focus on (within next 2 years):
Volt – four door sedan like Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, and Ford Fusion;
Voltec Cadillac Converj (sedan version) – four door luxury sports sedan;
Voltec Equinox – small SUV like Ford Escape and Chevy Equinox;
Voltec Cadillac Provoq – small luxury SUV;
Spark full electric 100+ miles – small commuter cars.
Next focus on (within next 5 years):
Voltec Silverado – Full size truck like F150 and Chevy Silverado;
Voltec Tahoe – Large SUV.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:28 am)With only a three year battery warranty, it seems likely that they’re going to use 100% of the available battery capacity.
+3
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:29 am)To go along further with my comment at no. 8, if AMP or GM for that matter would pursue this architecture as say a Cadllac SRX rather than an Equinox, now you’re talking an entirily different ball game. A $50 grand asking price wouldn’t be so easily out of the question for a Cadillac customer. I like the idea of an Equinox EV but a Cadillac SRX EV makes more sense IMO.
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:35 am)I wonder if you could get the rebate on a used car fitted with the electric motor.
The Equinox is stated to cost 50K and they note it is 25K for the base vehicle from GM and then 25K to rip out the ICE/Tranny and install the Batteries/Motor.
If they worked with used Equinox models (say a 2004) that have a worn out ICE, that might cut 15-20K off the price. Of course then you get a “used” electric vehicle.
+4
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:38 am)The AMP website discusses a 25K Equinox with a 25K conversion for a 50K car. They also note that they remove the Engine and Tranny.
The Equinoxes start at about 22.5K (I did not look it up but I do own one). 25K gets you a few options that are nice.
Apparently no empty shell from GM to AMP. The buyer is buying a 4 cyl engine and tranny that is taken out and I assume sold for parts by AMP.
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:42 am)Joe, In this case GM isn’t involved. AMP is buying the Equinox from a dealer. GM isn’t selling them the vehicle!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:42 am)4 door, drop the motor & transmission, add a few more kwh for a 100+ mile range….. I’m listening!!!! Houston (GM) are you?
+3
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:42 am)_______________________________________________________
BEV Chevy Equinox vs. Tesla Model S.
Which is the better BEV buy (for those willing to live w/ limited range)?
_______________________________________________________
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:48 am)$22600 to 29900 http://www.chevrolet.com/equinox2010/build-your-own/
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:53 am)Also, The Equinox is a heavy vehicle. It is supposedly very rigid and does very well in a rollover (Very wide pillars). Its almost 4000 Lbs with the 4 cyl and tranny in. These are not huge components. Even without the engine, this is relatively heavy.
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:56 am)Schmeltz, the prices for a Cadilac SRX conversion would be more than $50,000 since the MSRP for it is higher than the Equinox. AMP is likely buying the least expensive Equinox model; MSRP around $23,000 while the Cadilac SRX, $34,000. AMP is going for conversion of a very popular vehicle.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:04 am)Depends on the reliability of the battery, both as supplied and maintained. Equinox would be a more useful vehicle.
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:05 am)It’s great to see another startup company electrifying cars! The 2010 Equinox is a CUV very similar to the 2010 VUE and I believe AMP will find this conversion to be very popular. (BTW, they are now doing Pontiac Solstice and Saturn SKY, not Saturn VUE, conversions.)*
* http://www.ampelectricvehicles.com/home.aspx
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:06 am)Not to be difficult, but modern engines just don’t wear out anywhere near that fast.
Unless that 2004 was driven as a taxi there would likely be nothing wrong with an engine that new. At 6 years old that engine would have ‘maybe’ 120000km on it.
My lowest mileage car (1997 Land Rover Discovery 4.0 V8) has 150000 km on it and it’s only issue is a leaky valve cover. The 2002 Subaru has 225000km, it needs spark plugs. (next weedend!)
The 1998 Malibu has 240000km on it, runs just fine thank you.
However it’s pretty obvious we are getting to the point were we need a new car in the next couple years!
What one would gain from using a 2004-ish car is you would get it cheaper because of normal depreciation, and the leftover dog smell.
Otherwise the 2004 car, assuming it wasn’t abused would be just fine.
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:07 am)Thanks for all the info! It seems a shame for GM to make a complete functional vehicle, only to have MORE labor added to the process ripping it apart. GM and AMP ought to work something out for GM to provide the vehicle without the parts that would be removed by AMP, they’d both save $ and labor, and maybe AMP could sell the EV for less. I’m probably missing something, but I’m a simple guy.
I don’t see why a used Equinox couldn’t be used though – it wouldn’t differ physically from one off the line, would it?
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:10 am)Sorry nuclearboy, the rebate applies only to new car purchases.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:12 am)My thoughts exactly. If GM or another major manufacturer starts making this type of vehicle these guys couldn’t possibly compete. Then the venture capitalists don’t get their return. Maybe they count on getting all they would get in less than five years.
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:13 am)Thanks, MRR!
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:13 am)I can tell you one thing. The new Equinox is an AMAZING vehicle. I just got mine and of Dec, AWD with the better engine, and it is really something to drive. Given its size, weight and height, it is nimble, more than enough power unless you are drag racing, incredibly quiet, stable and responsive. It handles better than some cars I tested. and the cargo space is flippin huge. Even with the rear seat slid forward (it moves about 8″) you can park a 6′+ person with plenty of space.
as an all electric it would be awesome as long as the handling characteristics of weight distribution are not affected. I would pay that much, but only if the battery management system was more volt like
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:14 am)I know we can’t afford it but it is interesting to compare this approach to others. I wonder if they will strap the battery pack to the underside and lower clearance or stuff it in the engine compartment. either way I think most people will want a longer battery warranty for that much investment.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:16 am)You may very well have a point there LRGVProvolt. I guess that leads me back to my original sentiment at no. 8…the Volt is a bargain compared to any all-electric brethren, even if you still need to burn a little gas occasionally. It’s looking more and more like Lutz and Laukner knew what they were talking about when they started to brainstorm the EREV concept.
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:19 am)Hi NM,
Any thoughts on the air cooled battery and short warranty for the battery? Sounds like they are TRYING to keep the cost down, and maybe hoping that advances in tech over the next 3 years might justify a “short-term” approach? I don’t think that I like the approach, but like you, welcome more players.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:21 am)From the article : “Burns told GM-Volt that the batteries are air-cooled, will have 80% capacity after 100,000 miles, and that the battery warranty is 3 years.”
How can he know that ? And giving a 3 year warranty doesn’t give you any confidence that you will have 80% capacity in 8 to 10 years
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:27 am)Glad to hear such a positive review of a new GM vehicle!
Thanks.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+3
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:30 am)Hi, Tag! I share your concern about the 3 yr battery warranty. It would seem AMP wants its customers to share the risks of battery degradation with them. One thing that makes that ALMOST acceptable to me is that they say individual cells are replaceable.
BTW, my VUE and the Equinox are both FWD vehicles and I’d be very tempted to see if AMP could install the two RWD motors, battery & control electronics WITHOUT removing the existing ICE drive train —this would make the vehicle an EREV of sorts, give the owner 4WD when/if needed to pull a boat, etc, and remove any range anxiety or being stranded concerns. What think you?
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:31 am)Conversions will never compete with production vehicles. This is more like custom work than production. (build one by one to order).
That said, some people will want a custom car and be willing to spend the extra dough. In my youth, custom vans were all the rage.
I don’t see this as being a high-volume venture.
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:38 am)Yep – I’d start buying shares in Lithium ion battery companies, unless this demand is already priced into the shares! There’s 6 or so NASDAQ ones. Hope the demand really starts to take off now
+3
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:39 am)Do I get partial credit for posting a link to a news article about this the other day? (Same day as a link to an article on Ms Gray leaving GM).
Anyway, I really am curious about the arrangements between this company and GM. I have to believe that they are not just buying the cars retail with ICE’s and then discarding the ICE. And I would say that these guys are not really competing with GM, but helping with credibilty, albeit at arms length. Maybe GM has been counting on deals like this for some time, thus the harping on “infrastructure”?
The vehicle looks pretty good. I’m still stuck on the range extender though.
-11
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:40 am)(click to show comment)
-2
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:40 am)Everyone realizes that we’re talking about a $50k Conversion + Vehicle, right? $50k is the conversion cost only. So add up the costs and reach your own conclusions about how many of these will be sold. (For reference maybe statik will tell us how many cars sold for $80+ last year).
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:41 am)An interesting dilemma for GM. Another company is taking your car and modifying it to be all electric. Does GM even entertain the idea of just selling AMP the car minus the engine and transmission? On the one hand GM gets some free R&D and if the Electric Equinox takes off GM could at some point buy out AMP or at least continue making money selling car shells. AMP is taking the risk and doing all the upfront work. On the other hand your “Brand” is now in the hands of a 3rd party to some extent.
I would think GM is tempted, but it has the potential to go badly if AMP doesn’t make a good product.
It just seems a waist to build a car only to disassemble half of it and do the conversion.
My guess is with Toyota having all their problems GM will play it safe and not want to promote 3rd party electric conversions. I can’t see them wanting their cars modified to that extent without their own engineering staff involved.
I thought some company called Magna took the Ford Fusion and made it all electric, but then went back to Ford and basically said lets build this car together? And I thought Ford was teaming with them to do what I described?
Either Way it’s a good sign that Electic transporation is getting traction.
+4
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:42 am)I checked into this company a while back:
http://ampelectricvehicles.com/home.aspx
I thought that when I first looked, they wanted a new vehicle, and they kept all parts taken out during the conversion. The web site now states they will take a used vehicle as well, but they still keep the parts.
My problem with the idea then, as it still is, is that Amp will warranty their parts, but it does not state that GM will provide warranty on any other part of the vehicle, once it has been modified. They talk about negotiations on this topic, but nothing definite. That, along with the idea of a $25K conversion with only a three year warranty from Amp made it seem like a bad deal to me.
So you end up with an overpriced car, it has a bad warranty, no national service in place, and you still have range anxiety!
I think I will still wait for a Volt! But I won’t wait forever………..
NPNS
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:46 am)Per #40. Whoops, autobloggreen changed the story. Crossing out a few words like “customer provides the Equinox” does make a difference! So the price is $50k including the vehicle. That’s actually pretty good.
I regret the error …. LOL
-9
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:47 am)First problem with this infomercial is what the thing will cost. Is that $50,000 plus for simply a CONVERSION of your vehicle, or is it the vehicle itself?
This does show that, in a free market, as long as there are morons out there willling to
buy an inferior mode of transport, and have money to “prove” they are environmentally
responsible (nevermind that their effect on the environment will be zilch, compared with their effect on their neighbors’s opinion, the true reason for wasting such money), then some company will jump in and produce a vehicle before battery technology is capable of practicality.
A free market’s mode of operation is to provide services demanded by the consumer. Even if
the consumer is wrongheaded and wants to waste their money. Hey, it’s their money. Right?
I’m strongly in favor of electric vehicles and predict that as soon as a practical and affordable battery technology appears, the gas powered vehicle becomes a museum piece. But I’m not in favor of meaningless junk like this, that meets the needs of nobody, at least not in terms of functionality. It’s all theater, nothing but theater.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:51 am)Yeah I noticed this careful wording as well. I think the “100,000 miles” part is only if you do it in 1 year or less. I wish this small company well, but they seem to be taking off-the-shelf parts, bolting them together, and hoping for the best. Certainly they don’t have GM’s testing capabilities. If things work well over time they’ll take credit for it. If things don’t work so well, they’ll just fold up shop and start a new company.
So yes they were careful to NOT say “80% capacity after 3 years”. I have 100+ hobby lipo batteries and they all become pretty tired after 3 years. They still work, but the capacity and current delivery abilities (less an issue for cars) are just not there after a few years. The good news is that lipo battery prices should be coming down over time due to mass production. So hopefully in 2014 you’d be able to find a replacement battery for your Equinox conversion.
I think this is mostly a toy for people with more money than sense, like the ones who buy a $60K boat and spend another $60K customizing it, then sell it for $20K after a couple years. The rest of us will have to wait for the mass-produced products.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:53 am)The best thing about it is the size of the vehicle. Most of the EV options will be in the compact category for a while and many would prefer a larger car. The downside, as many have stated, is the price and much lower quality of engineering and battery life to name a few. But it is great there are people doing this kind of thing. It is an indication of the rapid growth in the awareness of the superiority of electric transpotation.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:53 am)I would agree with you about the Volt being the better choice compared to a conversion. They are very expensive and will only appeal to affluent buyers who want an Equinox that is electrified and don’t want to wait for GM to build one. I like many believe there is a market for both EREVs and BEVs. Likewise companies like AMP who are making conversions will have a short term market by offering SUV,s and trucks. To date the only company I know of that is building a truck is Phoenix MotorCars: they are building an electric SUT from a Korean chassis, not stripping out the ICE as AMP is doing.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+4
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:56 am)Dont Forget the Voltec Corvette!!!!!
+4
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:01 am)Randy Randy Randy… sigh…
Please explain the good business economics of building each EV-1 (in the 90′s) for ~$80k and selling them for ~$30k.
Cold hard costs killed the EV-1, nothing else.
Yes, they screwed up the public perception when they ‘crushed’ them, but make no mistake the same fate awaits Lyle’s Mini…
They were a limited time closed end lease, the people who leased them knew this, it’s long past time to grow up and get over it.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:02 am)A little correction Lyle. You said- “They have been producing electric versions of the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky since 2007.” actually, they have yet to deliver a car to a customer. Even now, all you can do is get a reservation for the “Founder’s Series” They appear to be just yet another electric car company that is all talk and little results. If they ever get it together, I might consider converting my Solstice, but so far I’m not impressed.
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:11 am)They are just giving you information about the battery. If used for 100,000 miles, the battery would only be able to charge to 80% of the original capacity. You would have to drive 33,000+ miles each of the three years to reach that state. They are only telling you that they will guaranty the battery for three years. That has nothing to do with the rate at which the battery reaches 80% charge capability.
I will agree with you about the risk anyone buying this vehicle is taking with regard to the battery. More information is needed before we can really make a determination about the battery they are using; like what is the replacement cost; what type of chemistry it uses.
I am not in the market for a $50,000 + or _ vehicle, so I definitely wouldn’t consider it. If I were able to afford it, I most likely wouldn’t buy it because AMP (although they manufacture motors) by nature of rebuilding the Equinox would invalidate the GM warranty. I wonder what type of warranty they are giving with the it’s sale?
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:24 am)They limited their liability. If they’re all destroyed, GM doesn’t have to do recalls and supply parts for the next 10 years.
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:25 am)Another couple tidbits from the full article:
“AMP intends to have a formal unveiling, with demonstrations available, at the New York Auto Show, which commences on April 2, 2010.” And “The Company will begin taking orders at its opening event and expects the fully-converted vehicle to be available for a June 2010 delivery.”
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:28 am)-Decent Range
-Good Power
-Decent Warranty (3 year 36k on my ICE)
-Little high on price, but not too bad considering they have to buy the ICE version then convert.
-Good practical vehicle.
-6 hour recharge time at 220v30a
Not a potential buyer, but a decent option for the people that can afford a 50k car.
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:28 am)They are purchasing the vehicle form a dealer and making the conversion: $25,000 for the vehicle and another $25,000 for the conversion.
http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Electric-Car-Production-Underway-In-Blue-Ash/4Chvy9TiQE65MDWtpDy6SA.cspx
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:39 am)That’s an interesting suggestion! I’d wonder about being able to completely disengage the tranny, so that there was no drag on the AER. The electric power seems easy enough to engage/disengage, but I don’t know about the ICE. I don’t know how long that they have been developing this vehicle, but once the paradigm of the EREV was out there, it probably would have at least occurred to them to *try* your setup. Sounds pretty neat to me, but I’m no rocket scientist (lol).
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:40 am)Another couple tidbits from an EcoGeek interview about the Solstice/Sky conversions:
“First customer vehicle will be delivered this month. Our goal is to convert 1000 vehicles this year.” And, “Although the Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice are no longer in production, there are still over 100,000 of them on the road. We have enough advanced orders from people with used SKY’s and Solstices that we have begun production”
In reality, they realized trhey need a new platform for new car conversions. IMO
http://www.ecogeek.org/ecogeeks/3055-ecogeek-of-the-week-ceo-of-amp-electric-vehicles
It appears that all the range and acceleration information quoted is actually for the Sky. Although it is quoted in the Equinox press release, it looks like the think they can meet those numbers. Just ‘cuz?
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:44 am)The Prius plugin conversions have pretty much followed the pattern you describe. Low volume, high price (10K). People who have had them done seem sold, but that may change once mass produced numbers are available.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:50 am)#10
I’m not gonna any “conversion”, that’s for sure.
Still I wonder if they have figured out some way to retrofit the regen braking, maybe as part of the motor/controls package? The regen brakes don’t act on the wheels, right? They are part of the driveline, kind of more like a “Jake Brake”, only feeding some of the energy back instead of just wasting it, I think. So maybe that could work.
I’m just thinking out loud though. I wouldn’t buy one, regen or not.
Plus, the Equinox is too big and too heavy for my EV taste, and the aero has to be a disaster for an EV. I agree that the quoted range sounds VERY optimistic.
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:52 am)+1/2 for the early post and +1/2 for the EREV support!
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:53 am)#41 NASA-Eng; I agree +1; I don’t think a car pulled off the line 1/2 built would pass the gvmt’s road-worthiness standards. The insurance companies too. Too much risk for too little reward, a shame but such is life.
Good for them ‘tho!
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:56 am)Good point, Tag, that the tranny needs to be fully disengaged. I know my VUE can be towed behind a motorhome with all 4 wheels down & they claim the transmission doesn’t add to the drag.
-4
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:56 am)Gm obviously gained a huge following of people who still think losing 50k a car is good business and still wear bell bottoms, tie dyed shirt because they haven’t realized that we are oh about 20-30 YEARS beyond that..
still mad at that big kid in kindergarten too?
froma PR move yeah it was bad, but jesus man..come to the SECOND decade of the NEW MILLENIUM…
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:57 am)#20
AND, the battery pack almost certainly weighs more than the engine.
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:57 am)From the article I put in comment #57:
Yes, we do have regenerative braking. It works in conjuction with the hydraulic braking system. We do not modify the factory hydraulic braking system, only add some asssited braking via regenerative braking from the motors.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:01 pm)I gave you some time after I read that first post (lol). “Facts” are so slippery sometimes. Especially so *these* days!
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:12 pm)Right. Another company (that is not a car company with any history of actually making cars) is breaking the known capabilities of EV’s. The other company that comes to mind is Tesla Motors with their “vaporware’ S sedan.
So let’s see. We all know that 4miles/kWhr is a somewhat realistic number for electric range under good conditions. So using 100% of the 37 kWhr battery would yield a range of 148 miles. Okay fine but we also know that cylcing the battery this deeply will kill it quickly. No way it will achieve 100,000 miles with 80% capacity.
Now GM is using a about 60% of the Volt battery to claim a more realistic 40 mile range and a realistic 10 year battery life in the vehicle.
So companies like AMP should stop trying to fool us.
What they mean is 150 mile driving range under good conditions assuming you drain the battery completely*.
Then they should have the following disclaimer.
*Draining battery beyond 60% regularly voids battery warranty. Actual range when staying with battery warranty limits is more like 88 miles.
I commend GM on being honest about the Volt. They could easily claim it has a 70 mile range and then add the note I wrote above.
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:13 pm)I’d like to know more about a company that would try to pull off something like that. Do you have a source I could check?
Thanks in advance,
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:15 pm)AMP will convert a Pontiac Soltice/Saturn Sky.. and now a Chevy Equinox. How about something that is FWD? I wish I could take them any car to convert (or maybe you can). How about converting something like a Pontaic G6 GTP?
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:18 pm)Tag, see my reference in comment #53.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/02/prweb3648544.htm
and from the EcoGeek interview, date Feb. 2, 2010
http://www.ecogeek.org/ecogeeks/3055-ecogeek-of-the-week-ceo-of-amp-electric-vehicles
“First customer vehicle will be delivered this month. Our goal is to convert 1000 vehicles this year.”
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:23 pm)So the NYC Auto Show is in the first week of April??? Anyone else see an opportunity for VoltNation 2.1? The Austin event may turn out to be V 2.0 (or 1.5). LYLE? (my cheeks hurt from smiling at the thought).
Be well and excited!
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:30 pm)I saw an article on this on ABG. I think it’s a kickass idea BUT!
You have to pay for the “Donor” car THEN ALSO pay for the conversion. Total approx cost is $50,000.00
If GM were smart, they can just sell them (AMP) the “Shell” of the car. That should reduce the cost somewhat.
JIMHO
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:34 pm)Pretty funny. I had read the autoblog article yesterday and couldn’t figure out why anyone would spend so much on an EV with a three year battery warranty. Today I checked and say the clarification/correction. But I don’t think of these as slippery facts, just “updates”.
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:36 pm)But wouldn’t it potentially be a 3 year $50K vehicle? I’d love the whole idea of it, if it had a track record or the testing facilities of GM. Way out of my price range though.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
-7
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:43 pm)Yeah, it’s too bad they didn’t make the EV-1 asset instead, by building more of them, advertising them, leveraging economies of scale, and as a result have a $15k E-REV available by now.
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:47 pm)This car by AMP would be a good candidate for a “Trailer Genset”, likr the T-Zero had….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Acp_tzero_DSC00467.jpg
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:49 pm)Amp attended the North American International Auto Show in January of 2010. In lieu of having a stationary display on Electric Avenue, Amp brought its X-Prize 100% Electric Sky Roadster and gave test drives to the Press on Press days.
Car magazine tests of the stock Saturn Sky dinged it on acceleration and relativity low mpg. The AMP car obviously gets around these issues.
=D-Volt
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (12:49 pm)You seem to be saying that these classic, time-tested, items of clothing are somehow outdated? Seriously?? Were you raised by wolves?
I’m sorry. I need to be more tolerant of the diversity within our group. (lol).
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 26th, 2010 (1:02 pm)Thanks! I’d posted the request for info in response to post #50, so I hadn’t gotten to yours yet.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 26th, 2010 (1:04 pm)I bet you haven’t read all the responses (lol).
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 26th, 2010 (1:10 pm)I’m not saying that that outcome is impossible, but I’m still trying to think of a good synonym…
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+4
Feb 26th, 2010 (1:37 pm)This is a quote from the PR release link from post #70, and I think it says it all:
“Forward-Looking Statements
Certain statements contained in this press release may constitute “forward-looking statements”. Forward-looking statements provide current expectations of future events based on certain assumptions and include any statement that does not directly relate to any historical or current fact. Actual results may differ materially from those indicated by such forward-looking statements as a result of various important factors as disclosed in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission located at their website (http://www.sec.gov). In addition to these factors, actual future performance, outcomes, and results may differ materially because of more general factors including (without limitation) general industry and market conditions and growth rates, economic conditions, and governmental and public policy changes. The forward-looking statements included in this press release represent the Company’s views as of the date of this press release and these views could change. However, while the Company may elect to update these forward-looking statements at some point in the future, the Company specifically disclaims any obligation to do so. These forward-looking statements should not be relied upon as representing the Company’s views as of any date subsequent to the date of the press release.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-2
Feb 26th, 2010 (1:38 pm)You forgot a Voltec Minivan with a 50″x98″ footprint in the cargo box (with the kid-friendly seats removed), so that I can haul plywood, MDF, and drywall for home-improvement projects. I have to specify this dimension, because the minivans that I’ve measured are just under this dimension, which leads me to wonder if the cargo-carrying capacity is being deliberately neutered to preserve manufacturer’s profits on commercial vehicles. I have to measure a few more before I’m sure, though. If the vehicle can’t haul this cargo, I don’t have enough kids to make the bigger vehicle worthwhile.
Also, I’m just not interested in the Tahoe or anything SUV-like. They just doesn’t suit my needs: since I’m short so the height is a negative, I have no need for off-road capability, I have no need for heavy towing, and the internal cargo per ton of gross-vehicle-weight seems to be way better with a minivan. Also, the looks of SUV-like vehicles just don’t suit my personal taste.
The Silverado is just too damn big for my needs. I have a compact pickup truck at the moment, and it’s bigger than I need, and can haul heavier loads than I need — except that hauling 2-3 sheets plywood and MDF is awkward in the 6′ bed. Any vehicle bigger than a compact pickup truck is off the list — even the Colorado is borderline too-big.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (1:41 pm)Well of course not, silly guy….
Feb 26th, 2010 (1:44 pm)-3 year run time – no (battery will last longer then 3 years, maybe 5-7 years)
-Over priced option comparied to ICE’s – yes.
-Vast market potential – absolutly no
-Nice seeing people try and to do stuff like this – Awsome!
I like the statement this represents, where electric cars dont have to be small cramped compacts all the time. This gets people out of the go-cart quotes you hear on the news when discussing electric cars.
Feb 26th, 2010 (1:44 pm)#65
Thanks. +1
Feb 26th, 2010 (1:44 pm)Hey, I was just enjoying the laugh! (g)
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+3
Feb 26th, 2010 (1:49 pm)When looking at the Coda website the conclusion has to be that Coda is definitely adopting some of the things suggested here. One fun advantage of the Coda is “flipping gas pumps the bird”, but my fav is they’re calling the release date of the car “End Dependence Day”. Clever. They are also banging on how the US imports so much oil from foreign sources and how much that importation taxes the economy. As shown by the opening Flash, which stars a big honking black plug coming down on and stomping out fuel pumps, the message is definitely not one of green love and songbirds.
I give the marketing five thumbs up.
Feb 26th, 2010 (1:53 pm)Hey, I told/gave that slogan to someone here that wanted the Volt roll out to be done on July 4th. I was robbed again!
Was it Tag I told about that slogan? It was a while back, maybe a month or two ago.
lol…..they probably are peekin in on this site.
Feb 26th, 2010 (1:58 pm)#82
Thanks. +1
I guess I’m a little slow on the uptake (in case you haven’t noticed, LOL) but now the thing becomes a bit clearer. All along I was wondering, “What are these guys thinking, there’s no business case here?” Maybe there is, but it’s about VC, IPOs, U.S. Gov’t technology “loans”, ASF. Get the $$ on the front end, and don’t worry so much about actually building any cars. Can anybody say EEstor?
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (2:05 pm)That’s what I’m talking about. +1
Even better, Spark EREV. 60+ AER and 80 mpg on the “range extender” That’s my commuter dream. And AER/gas mileage bragging rights rule.
-6
Feb 26th, 2010 (2:16 pm)It must be a pretty big slap in the fact that people have been calling GM on the carpet for 10 years about not making EVs and it’s gotten to the point where there are all of these random companies no one has ever heard of doing it for them and selling them for more than GM can sell them for by ripping the power train out GM insists on selling. The whole thing is so symbolic to me. Hopefully GM gets it now.
+3
Feb 26th, 2010 (2:22 pm)People have been making electric cars in garages for decades now. There is always room for some little guy to make a few odd cars. That has nothing to do with GM decision to not mass produce EVs when gas was 1.50 a gallon and the government mandate was dropped.
Remember, GM only built the EV1 because the Govt said they had too. Once the mandate was dropped by the Govt, GM wisely stopped.
Feb 26th, 2010 (2:25 pm)Intriguing idea. Perhaps this would also allow them to get by with a smaller battery / range.
I would much rather see GM step up with a real EREV version. Combining the AMP proposal with your suggestion shows GM how it could be done.
Frankly, this third-party rebuilding stuff doesn’t much interest me.
Feb 26th, 2010 (2:33 pm)lol….
It’s really not affordable to tell you the truth. Unless you already own the car and paid it off completely. I think the best fit for them as well as GM is to order the car from GM as a “Shell” then mount the EV package. Sounds like a win/win for both and should be less on the pocketbook. By how much? Who knows…
Feb 26th, 2010 (2:33 pm)Air-cooled batteries? Sounds alot like the Nissan Leaf offering.
This concept MIGHT just catch on in mild climate driving!!!
GO EV !!!
Feb 26th, 2010 (2:43 pm)Perhaps AMP is counting on the resale of 1000 brand new Equinox engines and transmissions to help keep both ends of the wolf from meeting at the door, or whatever …
Feb 26th, 2010 (2:54 pm)AMP won’t be around long. Coda is advertising 8 years 100K mile battery warranty.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/02/26/coda-chooses-goodness-mfg-as-agency-of-record-ads-will-start-th/
Feb 26th, 2010 (2:55 pm)+5 (my family votes this time)
PS If the minivans are too small, what about a tow hitch and small trailer? It’s a bit of work but so is removing seats, no?
Feb 26th, 2010 (2:58 pm)Sorry, Captn,
I’m sure I’d remember if you’d said anything THAT clever (lol) Seriously though, A) when I read it in DonC’s post I didn’t remember seeing it before (AND thought that it was clever), but B) I forget my wife’s name at the moment (g), So it may well be my weak memory, and most certainly would *not* be due to any weakness of wit on your part.
(whispers: Do you think he bought that? (/I) (lol)
It certainly DOES make one think that they may visit this site! Smart folks – here *and* there.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
/Short life intrusion. bbs. Hmm, better to say *brief* life intrusion.
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (2:59 pm)GM is still building their “core competencies”, that is, control electronics, electric motors, and automotive batteries. Opel has announced a BEV for Europe. I don’t think they would be interested in assuming extra risk while building up someone else’s brand.
Feb 26th, 2010 (3:09 pm)http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/automobiles/07TYPES.html
We have only years until the updated song:
My EV drivetrain is red hot…. Your EV drivetrain ain’t doodly-squat. Rinse and repeat.
Feb 26th, 2010 (3:12 pm)What a thrill that General Motors is finally developing a General core competency in electric Motors. It only took a century or so for them to start living up to their name.
Feb 26th, 2010 (3:22 pm)EVO, EVO, EVO…You were doing so *well* at polishing off the sharp edges!…(sigh) Patience, Tag. Patience….(g)
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
-5
Feb 26th, 2010 (3:46 pm)I know AMP is a different entity, but I’m sure GM is collaborating with them. You could say GM is helping the after market which will speed the electrification of electric cars… that’s all I’m saying.
Feb 26th, 2010 (3:46 pm)Equinox Gliders is a nice idea
This may reduce AMP’s/final cost also and they should be able to choose the breaking components from Hybrid Vue/hybrid Malibu / 2 mode ones (regenerative breaking) for better regeneration.
-2
Feb 26th, 2010 (3:48 pm)hi omnimoeish #92 …
It’s more about the mindset of the former GM. And lobbying by the big oil companies. At 14/10 mpg and $4 per gallon for gasoline. Hummer cost $20 an hour in fuel. I haven’t checked the cost of insurance. Would expect a big number for an 8000 lb vehicle. Good to fight wars with, but very expensive to own.
=D-Volt
Feb 26th, 2010 (3:50 pm)Not to cast aspersions on our favorite shrink, but our mutual friend “Jackson” recalls the clever Cap’n quip.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (3:59 pm)Emailed GM a year ago and offered my services as Volt test driver. Mentioned my age and driving record. Clean criminal history. My excitement and high interest in the Volt. Current (and former) vehicles I have owned. Family status and home ownership (garage). Said that I would provide the time needed and honest feedback at no cost. No reply from GM.
Interested consumers need some sort of demo program soon. Getting that ‘GM is late again’ feeling. Most car shoppers will demo an electric car before buying another 6 cylinder gas burner. Not saying all will buy electric. Just saying interest is very high regarding demo drives.
=D-Volt
+3
Feb 26th, 2010 (4:14 pm)They actually started living up to that name back in the 1940s, during the early days of diesel-electric locomotives:
http://www.angelfire.com/il2/burlingtonzephyrs/EMD.html
+3
Feb 26th, 2010 (4:15 pm)Wow. They are miles ahead of any other OEM, Nissan too IMHO, and they still can’t get any props from some corners.
Feb 26th, 2010 (4:15 pm)+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (4:32 pm)+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (4:44 pm)CR must have been driving with the brake on. They averaged 21 mpg. The car rates 22/32 on the EPA tests. I have never seen average mileage on a tank below 25. Even in winter with remote starts and driving in snow.
Good testing boys. You are really credible now.
Feb 26th, 2010 (4:50 pm)They are not saying they can achieve 100,000 miles while using only 80% SOC. They are saying that after 100,000 miles the battery will be able to charge no more than the 80% level. All batteries loose the ability the charge to the level when brand new.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Feb 26th, 2010 (4:51 pm)CR MPG is always below EPA. For example, Prius is 44 MPG CR and 50 MPG EPA. They use their own test cycle.
Feb 26th, 2010 (4:51 pm)I don’t think so. As I quoted and stated in post #57:
When GM dropped Saturn and then Pontiac, it eliminated the platform that AMP had their whole business plan wrapped up in. They needed something else if they were going to use new cars to convert. What’s *interesting* is that they choose another GM vehicle, the Equinox.
Feb 26th, 2010 (4:57 pm)They also say that the purpose of the Volt engine is to charge the battery “when needed”. Color me unimpressed. At least they understood that the Volt drive train works differently than that of other hybrid’s.
+4
Feb 26th, 2010 (4:58 pm)Your intolerance and arrogance are unbelievable. Just because someone else has different priorities than you doesn’t make them a “moron” or “wrongheaded.” And just because you don’t like this BEV doesn’t make it an “inferior mode of transport,” “meaningless junk,” or a “waste of money.” I’m sure that you spend money on things that others would also find foolish.
The fact is that this BEV will fit some people’s lifestyles nicely. It doesn’t need to be all things to all people.
Furthermore, if you understood how products are developed in free markets, you’d be thanking the early adopters for buying these vehicles, because they are paying for the research that will make the future versions “practical and affordable.”
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (4:59 pm)I’ve been staying out of the Volt pricing threads of the last two days. It’s just that trying to peer into the crystal ball of auto market pricing and price points is best left to the professional bean counters and prognosticators who have much better data than any of us have the time or inclination to peruse.
All of us can agree – marketing the Volt is GM’s big challenge. Yet assuming it will be a “hard sell” or difficult to market is a wrong assumption IMO. The problem with the graphs and statements, with predictions and reasoning is — it’s all fuzzy numbers vs. what consumers worldwide are truly willing to evolve into. Ask any 100 Prius owners why they purchased their vehicles, often moving up and down their price demographic , and you’ll hear 50 different stories.
There are demographics I personally would go for, if I were GM. Women being the first. Women seem to be the least informed as to a new type of electric-gasoline category-to-be. I admire Ford’s latest TV ad campaign showing close-ups of women in their Fusion hybrid or Escort compact talking plainly about how it goes and how they can have their nails done for all the gas money they save.
I’d venture to say the Volt needs similar down-to-earth advertising, no more dances, cutesie childish cartoon paper cut-outs, etc., and even the latest Volt info video is a bit “high school science class informational”, i.e. to capture the mainstream public’s interest.
Lastly, the figures displayed featured January sales numbers – when gas prices are lowest. Show the hybrid sales in June and July when prices are highest. Hybrid sales seem to follow a steady line directly related to the price of a gallon of gas. Remember how you had to get on a waiting list for a Prius for three months during the 2008 gas “crisis”? Regional gas prices very wildly as well. I live in Seattle, the closest U.S. market for Alaskan crude, yet the third highest gas prices in the USA, right behind southern California and Hawaii.
The AMP Equinox is not exciting in the least to me. For the price – I’d much rather wait for the Prius plug-in. America is huge. EVs can only hope to prosper as commuters and for people who live in smaller nuclear communities. THIS IS WHY THE VOLT IS SO REVOLUTIONARY. Range is not an issue. $40-$60k for an EV is foolish. IMO Tesla can not possibly think they’ll sell many Model S’s outside the wealthy celeb/green crowd. The Model S is supposed to be the bridge between the discontinued sports car and an “affordable” $25,000 EV.
I also agree with those who are tentative about an air-cooled lithium battery pack.
RECHARGE! James
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:01 pm)I did that more than once and got dizzy just catching up after my first post. Sometimes, it just pays to have more than one person answer the same questions. Then we can take a pole on which answers are most popular.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:10 pm)Yes, there are people who will buy this vehicle. They and we may even find that they made a smart decision if the price of gasoline hits over $5.00 per gallon much sooner than many predict. Won’t we all look silly if that happens.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:22 pm)#107
Not really. The warfighter is a completely different vehicle. The H2 is a tarted up C3500/2500 mongrel, and the H3 is a duded up Trailblazer. Other than the name, there’s no commonality with the military version. Expensive to own? I have to put in with you there.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:22 pm)Just back from a face to face talk with my condo association. We discussed the currently available charging outlets. And the use of licensed installers to move forward with legal compliance. The first thing she said to me was, “I am interested in an electric car to get back and forth to work”. She also said that her son just bought an Insight and that the shift to electric drive cars has been brought up in meetings. The process is “in the works”. I mentioned that several EV will be available in 2012 for about $25k. She was pleasantly surprised.
=D-Volt
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:24 pm)#110
Thanks for the AWESOME link. +1 How times have changed, alas.
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:26 pm)Dave K.: Good to fight wars with, but very expensive to own.
http://garfwod.250free.com/hummer.mpeg
=D-Volt
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:26 pm)They obviously didn’t do any mpg-relevant testing at all, since GM would have had to provide a vehicle/disclose CS mpg ratings; neither of which they are likely to have supplied to Consumer Distorts.
My theory is that they got the figure from a consultant (whom we know better as john1701a, or perhaps caucus1).
Credibility is theirs to lose when the real CS-mode mpg figures come out, I suppose (though in fairness this entry beats their prior Volt listing in last year’s Cars issue, which featured a pic of the 2007 concept Volt).
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:27 pm)Right on Zak. For more information on the history of EMD, go to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro-Motive_Diesel
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:41 pm)I think these guys go out and buy cars and then test them. Thats how they stay independent. I would just suggest that they are not good at testing.
I guess it is possible to get this type of poor mileage. You just continue to run quarter miles and get the engine shifting at 5000+ rpms. One of the auto performance type magazines rated the Equinox and complained that they had to floor it everywhere they went in order to make it move. They reported test mileage under 20. Most of us don’t drive like this.
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:48 pm)That’s correct. CR does their own testing with cars they purchase on the open market. Since the Volt hasn’t been released for sale yet, they haven’t tested it, so many of the stats are blank.
The interesting thing is that CR chose to put the Volt in their 2010 car issue, even though the Volt is a 2011 year model, and won’t be available in most places until 2011. So that tells me that CR is very interested in the Volt…
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:49 pm)lol…..a pink hummer?
Hey, now that they are going to close the doors on the Hummer brand, it’s going to be a “collectors item”!!!
You know it will be.
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:56 pm)If the leaf is closer to $40,000 than Nissan would like us to believe, and if AMP comes down in price, these two are more natural competitors than the Volt vs Leaf.
(Except that Nissan has a nice new factory courtesy of Uncle Sam.)
Then there’s Coda and Tesla, et al.
The most natural competitor of the Volt should be Fisker’s future lineup.
BEVs to BEVs, EREVs to EREVs.
Feb 26th, 2010 (5:56 pm)To be clear, Consumer Reports has no MPG ratings at all for the Volt. The 21 MPG figure was what they tested for the Equinox 4-cyl.
Feb 26th, 2010 (6:02 pm)Good. Overnight charging for condos will only increase the market for EREVs.
-7
Feb 26th, 2010 (6:31 pm)If you can spend $50k for a car …then not meant for general public …so those with $$$$ to spend go ahead buy it …On the other issue, GM just like the old GM ..not hungry for buisness… they cud have brought the Volt 4-5 months earlier & beat the competition but GM as usual taking their time test test test …& as Lutz says GM will not make $$ on Volt …
+2
Feb 26th, 2010 (6:55 pm)I want to believe GM is “The New GM”. I want to see new quality standards. Some of their newest products like Cadillac’s CTS and Chevrolet’s Malibu and Equinox show some improvements in interior materials and fit and finish. That said, the reports of water leaks in new Acadias causing numerous electrical problems concerns me greatly, esp. looking forward to buying a Volt – my first new GM product in decades.
I say TEST TEST TEST and TEST some more! Videos on the Chevy Volt website of them water testing it, and driving rigorously over cobblestones and potholes, in rain and heat and on the shake table warm my heart. I want GM to test the H, E, double hockey sticks out of the thing. However long that may take. A new platform and tech like this needs to be well tested, not perfect but well tested indeed.
We can all pray GM avoids what Toyota is experiencing now – long enough to see the EREV bloom into several models – and even TRUCKS!
We can dream.
RECHARGE! James
I want to believe
Feb 26th, 2010 (7:26 pm)Who is Jackson? Just curious.(lol). I’m supposed to believe a schizophrenic, dead white guy, who poses as dead presidents, instead of my memor…uh, my mem… what were we talking about?
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 26th, 2010 (7:35 pm)Would love to see the Equinox in some form of production vehicle from GM with minimum 20 mile all electric range and AWD – the Toyota Highlander hybrid will go down the street quickly.
Feb 26th, 2010 (7:42 pm)This is the same reasoning that led me to believe that *initial* AER of 40 and the suggested “end of life” AER of 40, MAY mean that they were being conservative when they announced the former. I know, it may be software adjusted to “nurse” the early battery life, but it’s possible that through testing they may have become more confident and loosened that initial AER up a bit.
JMO.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 26th, 2010 (7:48 pm)They ALSO hid the technology, put the specs into storage, and did not file patents until a few years ago. Had they filed patents back then the patent protection would be lost right about now when they are just reaching commercial value. Pretty smart thinking in my mind.
Feb 26th, 2010 (7:51 pm)I also thought that their description was “less than crystal clear”. Since most of the folks here are more than a bit above the curve on these things, we pick up on these things, but that’s all the MORE reason for them to be so clear that there is little room for misunderstanding.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:01 pm)Although I totally agree with <b.most of your comment, I have to say that I disagree with the first sentence. His arrogance and intolerance are very believable (g).
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:15 pm)#131
No so fast. I heard yesterday the they have a couple of more potential buyers lined up. And no, I’m not making this up. I suggested Spyker, but they may be a bit preoccupied with SAAB. So I dunno, maybe Zenn? Roger Penske? Cerberus? Or who were the Swedish guys who were going to buy SAAB but bailed? Magna and the Russians? That might work, LOL.
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:20 pm)Hi James,
Really well written and sage comments in your post. The one leeeetle part where you say,
“There are demographics I personally would go for, if I were GM. Women being the first. Women seem to be the least informed as to a new type of electric-gasoline category-to-be. I admire Ford’s latest TV ad campaign showing close-ups of women in their Fusion hybrid or Escort compact talking plainly about how it goes and how they can have their nails done for all the gas money they save.”
has the tiniest possibility of being ill-received by women. I suspect that the majority of folks here are male, but who knows how many people who “lurk” here are female. Actually, I know that it’s largely a non-issue here, but if you said the same thing at a party, you might want to duck and cover (g). JMO and trying to help.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:26 pm)That’s another good spin to put on it. It’s VERY tough to catch up on missed posts, when every reply takes you back to the “bottom” and you have go back and try to find the spot you left off. It’s even harder when you can’t *remember* the post you just left! (lol)
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:31 pm)That sounds really promising! Way to be proactive!
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay
Feb 26th, 2010 (8:50 pm)Amen on all points! Regarding that last sentence: granted that sometimes facts (like GM’s history) make belief a bit problematic, but even then all it takes is a little more effort on our part. Personally, I believe that over the history of humanity (and I feel like I’ve been around to witness most of it)(lol), the vast majority of the evidence supports the premise that the power of belief is darn near indestructible.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:21 pm)“Through a local GM dealer AMP is currently taking orders for the vehicle, and they plan to begin deliveries in June of this year.”
—-
Warning: Somewhat trivial post
I wanted to wait for this thread to get a little older before mentioning this, as I am not keen to ‘rock the boat’ in the comments. I just figured I would mention this in case anyone out there reads this and is hot to order one of these thinking they will be driving one before the kids get out of school.
I seriously doubt you can ‘order’ a Equinox and get a conversion by June by these guys…it is virtually impossible. (You’d likely have to find a stock donor that was somewhat suitable and drop it on their doorstep…and even then, pretty sketchy)
For starters, the Equinox custom order program is north of 70 days right now. They are still filling some pre Christmas shutdown orders at the assembly plant this week, which is more than double what they want it to be.
Secondly, (and coincidentally) I was actually talking to some people from Magna today and they mentioned that they shut down the supply/parts line today for some Equinox components due to supplier issues (actually, they shut it down yesterday…everyone worked a half day and then they got sent home). So lets say if GM needed roof racks made at Magna today…didn’t happen.
Not saying that is a long term/major problem…or that GM even knows about it yet, but it is no secret they are having trouble filling Equinox orders as it stands, and the line is only as strong as the weakest link. Just saying it is highly doubtful the backlog/supply issue is clearly up any time soon.
You very well might just order a Equinox straight and barely get it by June, depending on the options.
Feb 26th, 2010 (9:47 pm)Oopsie.
On the other hand, why does it seem so plausible that Consumer Distorts would perpetrate such an egregious “spec” for the Volt?
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:03 pm)For those of you who’ve been reading and posting on this blog for the past couple of years, here’s some new developments from Stanford University’s Yi Cui … a cutting edge battery research guy.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/02/yang-20100226.html#more
Time flies doesn’t it? It’s already nearly March 2010 with just 7-8 months to go before the Volt launch. It seems like just yesterday that Lyle interviewed Dr. Cui about his “nanowire batteries” back in December of 2007.
http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/21/gm-voltcom-interview-with-dr-cui-inventor-of-silicon-nanowire-lithium-ion-battery-breakthrough/
Lyle should try to interview him again to see how his research is going. I’d like to know if there is a realistic chance of getting vastly improved batteries into future versions of the Volt in the next 5 years.
I’d like to know if upcoming batteries will be good enough so that we can get quick charging, 500+ miles of range so we can get rid of the IC engine altogether. Will the “batteries of the future” be super reliable and easily last 10-15 years with no degradation in performance?
There’s several questions I’d like to ask him actually. Dr. Cui is definitely one of the top battery researchers out there. He got some pretty big grants to do his research with. He probably has a pretty good idea of what the future of electric cars is going to like already.
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:04 pm)You want a BEV SUV or pickup truck see link.
http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/
You want conversion see link.
http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/Order
I’ll wait for the Volt.
NPNS!
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:15 pm)Thanks Tag. I certainly would not speak quite as bluntly about the female demographic at a party. But here in this room, I hope everyone knows I’m not a sexist or a neandrthal.
I think everyone from every gender, race and income bracket needs to learn an EXTENDED RANGE , EV/Gas option is on the table. Communicating this is the trick.
I really do admire Ford’s new ad campaign and I think sales numbers will reflect it’s effectiveness in the marketplace. A plain-speak approach is not only for women – heck, no! It works for everyone. Glitzy, graphical shots of cars whizzing around just doesn’t hack it anymore, in my opinion. Just notice how Toyota sold over 1 million Prius in America. The first gen car was shown in a jungle ( rainforest ) remember? With monkeys climbing all around it. The second gen focused on ads showing it spinning along through cities almost above the other cars and rif raff. Very interesting stuff. Of course the 3rd gen advertising is again focused on the good green earth, as I’m sure you’ve all seen those ads with people representing the sun and greenery of “Mother Earth”. Of course gas prices weren’t of much concern when those ads were paid for. One very cool ad campaign that never saw the light of day was the Blue Man Group for the 3rd gen Prius, but you can find it on YouTube.
GM could focus their sales of Volts in regions where gas is most expensive – which, of course, includes SEATTLE! – I had to get in a plug!
RECHARGE! James
Feb 26th, 2010 (10:34 pm)I looked at the Phoenix electric truck as a possible replacement for my 1995 Toyota SR-5 T100. You have the electric range anxiety factor, the air-cooled lithium factor, and the fact that it is an oddball Korean truck with the batteries slung underneath nearly dragging the ground in a setup that appears hacked together. I first thought it was a pre-production unit that the final issue would have a polished, water-safe, sealed battery pack, but no — that’s it. Kind of looks like a garage project to me.
RECHARGE! James
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:04 pm)Thanks for the research link and the stroll down memory lane. It’d be great to get some “inside” info from any of the cutting edge researchers in the battery tech research field, and it’s obviously relevant. Seems to me that the most advanced research approaches are almost by definition the ones farthest away from implementation though. For example the article you linked to first showed very impressive advances, but they had improved the number of cycles they’d reached to 20. The relatively large volumetric shifts also have negative impacts on implementation, as does the brittle dentrification that’s been plaguing graphite nano-tech batteries. The MIT “modern technology” website and free newsletter is also a *great* resource reporting current research in several areas. One of the strengths of its information is that many, many of the researchers are described as “Professor Whats_his_name” has just founded a private, venture capital funded company in order to *implement* his research. To me that means that they are probably getting closer to the point where we will actually *see* the fruits of their labors.
Too bad Denise Gray just left GM, but maybe Lyle would have access to someone in *any* of the transportation electrification (battery) fields, to get a sense for what’s coming down the pike!
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay
Feb 26th, 2010 (11:25 pm)Sorry James, I didn’t really mean to say that you’d actually DO that – just (as usual) trying to be funny. I also like the Ford ads with “real people”, who obviously just *love* driving their vehicles!
I think it’d be *hysterical* (and effective) for GM to do a series of ads where there is a small video camera clipped to the visor, focused on the face of the driver – where the drivers are ALL people who have never driven (or even heard much about) an electric vehicle! Just capture that first “EV smile”. (you might need to “beep out” some expletives, but that’s also a good thing)(lol). I think it’d almost immediately eliminate the “golf cart” impression held by many potential buyers. Yes, it’d also promote *other* EV’s, but a) that’s a good thing, and b) it’d be like the Liberty Mutual ads that show a series of people who see other people doing little good deeds, and then they pass them on. It’s really not about *insurance*, it’s about feeling good (for very good reasons). JMO.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay
Feb 27th, 2010 (1:10 am)Night all.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 27th, 2010 (5:10 am)This is a very sophisticated and low cost conversion.. you will end with a BEV SUV at about the same cost if you bought a regular (larger) SUV.. minus the gas expensed off course.
Two motors in one housing, no differential used.
Why not leave the ICE in and replace the transmission/driveshaft with a generator?.. Probably the changes in the ICE would bring in the EPA and require extensive and expensive testing.. and perhaps they use the space under the hood for the battery. One advantage is that they could keep the existing AC system intact. They also get to keep the ICE, transmission, driveshaft and differential.. probably worth about $10k when they resell it.
Interesting they can provide all this for only $37.5k (plus your car and minus the $7500 rebate). Are they using commodity laptop cells like Tesla?.. Large LiFe prismatic cells from China?.. or something in-between.
+4
Feb 27th, 2010 (5:40 am)I did not forget the minivan. I would like to see Voltec in ALL GM cars along with the option of full EV, but that is probably 20+ years away.
I was saying that GM should START with the top selling vehicles and provide Voltec GM’s to the masses. I am sorry that a large truck or SUV does not meet your needs but America buys more of these vehicles than any other type of vehicle. Ford F150 has been the top selling vehicle for 28 consecutive years. WOW! When gas prices were not a concern, people were buying mostly Trucks and SUV’s. These types of vehicles need to be a top priority for GM’s Voltec program, unfortunately technology is not quite there yet (maybe in 5 years?)
Over the next 2-5 years, GM can bring out Voltec sedans (GM Volt and Cadillac Converj-4dr) and Voltec small SUV’s (Chevy Equinox and Cadillac Provoq). Eventually, they could make all GM cars Voltec and EV.
Feb 27th, 2010 (9:37 am)Now this is what I’m looking for! The next couple years are going to be very interesting… eventually we will get to the all electric hydrogen fuel cell…
Mar 2nd, 2010 (3:52 am)I wonder? Will this vehicle be more worth it than a Leaf? Yes or No? As in electric range.