Feb 18

Chevy Volt Gas Engine Will Run Every 60 Days No Matter What

 

[ad#post_ad]Many people who fancy buying and driving a Volt plan to use little or no gasoline.  Since the car will accommodate up to 80% of the population’s driving needs purely on electricity, GM has to prepare for an engine that may be rarely or never used.

A similar concern is the possibility of old gas becoming stale.

GM is using a pressurized zero evaporation gas tank to keep the gas fresh.

“It’s like shrink-wrapping your food,” engineer Trent Warnke told Ward’s Auto. “It keeps the fuel from aging.”

GM will also recommend low gas using consumers only fill their tanks halfway to prevent spoilage.

In addition, the car will have a special algorithm in its control software to ensure the gas engine runs at least once every 60 days to keep things circulating.

The engine will only run while the car is in motion, and will only do so for about 10 minutes. This is sufficient time for the control unit to perform some diagnostic checks as well.

Thus far, the 80 or so pre-production Volts have endured over 500,000 collective miles of test driving, with one car having completed 66,000 miles.

Starting in May, 300 more pre-production or validation vehicles will be built on the full-scale Detroit Hamtramck assembly line. These will be used for testing by engineers, consumers, and the media.

The first saleable car is scheduled to be built on November 1.

Peak all electric range occurs when driving between 45 and 50 mph.

Source (Ward’s Auto, subscription only)

This entry was posted on Thursday, February 18th, 2010 at 8:23 am and is filed under Generator, Prototypes. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 154


  1. 1
    Herm

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:27 am)

    ahh.. finally we get some information. That and a sealed tank should prevent problems.. but only buy Top Tier gasoline.

    http://www.toptiergas.com/

    48mph is the average speed of the EPAs Hwy cycle.. so the Volt has been optimized for that.


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    Randy

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:38 am)

    Just when things are going good my electric bill goes up 40% PRev paid 9c KWH now its 14c
    thats the equiv of gas going right to $4 a gallon


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    BillR

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:39 am)

    I think GM is looking for a home run here.

    Besides returning excellent fuel mileage, the environmental impact of this vehicle is also being minimized. So 230 mpg in urban driving (based on EPA methodology), a gas tank with no evaporative emissions, and a small ICE that is used on an infrequent basis.

    I wonder what kind of rating this will give the Volt, something like a near-zero emissions vehicle?

    Also,

    “GM will also recommend low gas using consumers only fill their tanks halfway to prevent spoilage.”

    Lyle- I know the gas tank capacity is still a mystery, but perhaps you can find out how many gallons is halfway?


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    JeffB

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:41 am)

    Interesting news…wonder how the magic number of 60 days was determined?


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    Gsned57

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:42 am)

    10 minutes of ICE every 60 days. I can certainly live with that. Seems often enough to make sense and infrequent enough not to piss people off when it happens.

    It’s nice to finally be able to tell people for sure how the gas doesn’t get stale in the tank. I was asked just yesterday “what about the gas going stale if you don’t use it” when telling a coworker about the car I’m waiting to buy (and why he should wait too).


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    VOLTinME

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:44 am)

    (click to show comment)


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    prowler

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:44 am)

    Randy: Just when things are going good my electric bill goes up 40% PRev paid 9c KWH now its 14cthats the equiv of gas going right to $4 a gallon  (Quote)

    if 10 cent electricity translates to 2 cents/mile, then 14 cent electricity translates to 2.8 cents/mile. Compared to a 20 mpg car, that’s the equivalent of 56 cents/gallon gas.


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    Exp_EngTech

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:45 am)

    Ahhh yes. …. but will this 60 day interval be precise?
    Can I set my watch to it ?

    “The engine will only run while the car is in motion….”

    There goes some of the fun.
    I was hoping the thing would fire up at 3:00AM …. (auto test CD player…throttle…).


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    Guy Incognito

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:47 am)

    A 60 day exercise cycle for the ICE is a good idea.


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    Dan Petit

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:48 am)

    A label on the gas tank cap and fuel filler door listing the actual brands/grades to use might be helpful. In my old Winnebago Brave (circa 1991/Chevy chassis), the fuel must be “regular” 87 octane for both the (terrific) 454 cid V-8, and, also regular grade 87 octane for the Onan 4 KW Generator as well. (Both engines draw from the same tank). Both are still running absolutely perfectly even today. The (completely carbon-offset*) 454* has 78,000 gently-driven miles, and, the Onan* has an always-perfectly-run 2,488 clock hours on the Hobbs Meter hour clock.) I use only Shell 87 gasoline.
    Not bad for a 20 year old motorhome and Onan Generator. (/*carbon offsetting is via 384 100 watt CFL’s given away).

    /running late for work at 7:45am local. have a good day everyone.


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    zipdrive

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:48 am)

    Remember how just a couple short years ago the fur was flying on this site debating issues like this?

    Now we are finally getting answers… and the doubters and non-believers have all but gone away!

    The Chevy Volt is REAL!


  12. 12
    Todd

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:51 am)

    I’m still perplexed by this idea of gas going stale. I ride my motorcycle for about eight months out of the year. The other four it sets in my garage. I’ll go out and start it once a month and let it run for awhile to warm up the oil, evaporate any water and allow gas to flow through the fuel system, bit I have never added gasoline or additives to it. The gasoline has never gumbed up or caused any type of problem. My lawnmower gets the brunt of bad treatment though. After about mid October I don’t use it until March or April. It sets outside, no gas additives or anything and come spring it starts right back up without any problem. I’ve done this for more years than I have fingers and toes. This is not a complaint about the engine starting up on the Volt. I think that is needed and having it automated is the way to go. I just have never had any problems with gasoline going stale and I don’t think it’ll be a problem with the Volt at all.


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    Michael

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:55 am)

    A couple weeks ago (Feb. 5) we were discussing the GM 2011 Model Year Ordering Guide that included the Volt. Several talked about contact with their local dealers. I finally received a response (said he tried earlier but typed my email wrong). Here’s the response I got:

    The Volt information that you outlined in your e-mail is correct, based on the information I have. I am certain we will receive an initial allocation for production of the Volt, as soon as they are orderable from Chevrolet. As far as order placement, my best guess would be sometime in the July to August timeframe.

    Regarding a waiting list, we have frankly had a few who have expressed mild interest in the new Volt. As far as deposits, I prefer to wait until near the ordering timeframe, rather than tie up client’s money.

    Information wise, clients such as yourself,have as much information as the retailers have at this point. I have no idea as to pricing (only rumors), package content, or anything else…I wish I had more to communicate.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:58 am)

    VOLTinME: “Peak all electric range occurs when driving between 45 and 50 mph.”What exactly does this mean? If I go 55mph the gas engine kicks in?  (Quote)

    Slow down buddy and look at what your saying…

    PEAK ALL ELECTRIC RANGE OCCURS

    That means if you drive it in that speed range – you will go further than if you drive in a different speed range. This is somewhat common sense – If you drive 80MPH you will have a smaller electric range than if you drive 50MPH.

    This car will drive all electric to top speed.


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    Todd

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:01 am)

    VOLTinME: “Peak all electric range occurs when driving between 45 and 50 mph.”What exactly does this mean? If I go 55mph the gas engine kicks in?  (Quote)

    Simple, just like an ICE has an RPM range at which it is most efficent an electric motor does to. The car will get the most mileage out of the battery if driven between 45 and 50 miles per hour. This means if you drive 35mph all the way to work, you may not get a full 40 miles out of the battery, but if your commute is 45mph then you might get 43 miles out of the battery. The 45~50mph is the speed at which the motor and all the electroncis are most efficent. It does not mean that the ICE will come on at 55mph. The ICE will only come on when the system detects the batteries need assistance. This will be after 40 miles or possibly on hard hill climbs. My commute is 15 miles at speeds between 35 and 45. I expect I’ll easily be able to drive to and from work without using a drop of gasoline, except for when the ICE fires up for 10 minutes every other month.


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    Brian

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:05 am)

    (click to show comment)


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    JeffB

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:07 am)

    Michael: A couple weeks ago (Feb. 5) we were discussing the GM 2011 Model Year Ordering Guide that included the Volt. Several talked about contact with their local dealers. I finally received a response (said he tried earlier but typed my email wrong). Here’s the response I got:The Volt information that you outlined in your e-mail is correct, based on the information I have. I am certain we will receive an initial allocation for production of the Volt, as soon as they are orderable from Chevrolet. As far as order placement, my best guess would be sometime in the July to August timeframe. Regarding a waiting list, we have frankly had a few who have expressed mild interest in the new Volt. As far as deposits, I prefer to wait until near the ordering timeframe, rather than tie up client’s money. Information wise, clients such as yourself,have as much information as the retailers have at this point. I have no idea as to pricing (only rumors), package content, or anything else…I wish I had more to communicate.  (Quote)

    No talk of “limited quantity” premium…a deal breaker for me. :) I’m waiting to Gen 2 or 3 anyways unless I win one or something similar. Even then I’m not sure…my need for a new vehicle is low.


  18. 18
    lh_newbie

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:15 am)

    An average of 5 mins per month? Yeah, that totally rocks.

    I was thinking about how much a solar array would be to power a Volt for my daily commute (which is about 75% of my total mileage) of 16 miles per day. If 8KwH can run it 40 miles – we can assume 4KwH will safely run 16 miles (being conservative). So I’d need a solar array to kick out 4KwH per day to be “net neutral”. Due to my relatively poor roof orientation, I get 71% solar efficiency. In my area and with my orientation – I’d need a 1.1Kw array – so it’d cost me ~ $6.5K to run 16 solar miles per day! :)

    Over a 10 year period, we’re talking 11 cents per mile for “fuel charges” (5.5 cents/mi over 20 years). My little Ford Ranger costs me 14 cents/mile at $2.50/gal. That’s kindof amazing – powering a car with the sun has a lower fuel cost than a traditional ICE. Who’d have thought?


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:20 am)

    What about those odd people who won’t fill the car with any gas? Will it still run or will this be a problem?


  20. 20
    Dave K.

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:24 am)

    During the live feed meeting of yesterday. Was able to ask Andrew about traction control and the Fuel Max tires. Have three more questions. Octane requirment for the ICE? If the center stack can be used while wearing gloves. And if the generic capacitive touch “click” sound can be operator changed to a tone of some sort.

    The issue of “stale gas” is silly. Last year we went into this topic in detail. The verdict being that typical brand name gasoline will have no problems for at least 6 months. This number applies to shelved gasoline (no mixing or sloshing). Sloshed fuel lasts longer.

    Sounds like the Volt will perform very well. Especially in moderate climates.

    =D-Volt

    BTW: Just for fun. Have a look at this link. Compare the older cars 0-60 times with the 8.8 second 0-60 of the Volt. You’ll be surprised at the list of cars that are on par.
    http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60_Quarter_Mile_Times/F_0-60times.html


  21. 21
    Jon

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:26 am)

    Brian: I hate to rain on anybodies parade but, State and local governments are not going to make it easy for you to buy this car. We are all ready seeing this in an article from the NYtimes about fees and inspections for installations of recharge hardware in homes and businesses. They want to track record and tax your eletrical useage. They are not going to give up there oil revenue. If they are not careful they will kill the market.  (Quote)

    So, use the 110v charger that doesn’t require an install and thus won’t be tracked. Ease up on the big-brother talk when they haven’t decided and can’t accomplish it yet. They have been talking about doing the tracking with a smart-grid, but so far the grid is as dumb now as it has been since it was first put up. At least put up a link to this article so that we can follow your wonderful lead and believe everything we read on the web.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:29 am)

    Herm: ahh.. finally we get some information. That and a sealed tank should prevent problems.. but only buy Top Tier gasoline.http://www.toptiergas.com/48mph is the average speed of the EPAs Hwy cycle.. so the Volt has been optimized for that.  

    I’m sorry but I fail to see where GM recommends “Top Tier gasoline .”


  23. 23
    Todd

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:34 am)

    Brian: I hate to rain on anybodies parade but, State and local governments are not going to make it easy for you to buy this car. We are all ready seeing this in an article from the NYtimes about fees and inspections for installations of recharge hardware in homes and businesses. They want to track record and tax your eletrical useage. They are not going to give up there oil revenue. If they are not careful they will kill the electric car market.  (Quote)

    NY – I remember a state back east that shot up taxes on the wealthy (around 2004) figuring they would make a killing off the rich folks. Instead, over a period of 3 to 4 years enough of the rich folks moved out of the state to where the state was bringing in less in taxes than they were before the new taxes on the wealthy went into effect. I understand that the city’s and states will suffer a loss on gasonline taxes but they will need to watch just how much they charge on other taxes for electric cars. If they are not careful they will cause exactly what happened above. People will move to lower cost states or let’s be politically correct – more electric car friendly states :^) Why do you think Texas is one of the four fastest growing states in the union? Our taxes are fairly low in most cases, cost of living is fairly low and people can actually afford houses here. Oh, and we have jobs people. We have lots of work here – unemployment is only 4.5% and actually dropped from December’s numbers. Now I just have to wait for my Volt!


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:34 am)

    VOLTinME: “Peak all electric range occurs when driving between 45 and 50 mph.”What exactly does this mean?If I go 55mph the gas engine kicks in?  

    The gas engine kicks in only when the battery is depleted 70%. I believe this is what we were told.


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    CorvetteGuy

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:37 am)

    “The first saleable car is scheduled to be built on November 1.”

    And, my General Manager tells me “March next year” will be the absolute earliest our dealership will even see one… “If we’re lucky”. — So we are not at the top of the CA list. Try ‘Hollyweird’.


  26. 26
    William

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:40 am)

    I live in rural Missouri, and the roads I drive on average speed limits between 55-60 mph. If the peak all-electric range occurs between 45-50 mph, I am wondering what kind of electric range I would get out of the Volt at driving at the higher speeds. Possibly 30-35 miles?

    I mean, I’m not a “heavy-foot” driver and I gradually accelerate, so I should probably get decent range out of the Volt, right?

    My current car is a 2008 Chevy Impala (a much larger car), rated at 29 mpg hwy, but I get in the low to mid 30s on the highway, easy.

    I hope GM brings the Volt to the rural areas because it would be good to test it with consumers and see how it performs in the rural areas. Not all of America lives in the cities and suburbia, you know?

    We country folk would like to experience this technological marvel, as well!


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    CorvetteGuy

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:41 am)

    ccombs: What about those odd people who won’t fill the car with any gas? Will it still run or will this be a problem?

    If that condition is picked up by sensors, I’m sure the display will flash the “idiot light”. :)


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:43 am)

    Exp_EngTech: Ahhh yes. …. but will this 60 day interval be precise?
    Can I set my watch to it ?“The engine will only run while the car is in motion….”There goes some of the fun.
    I was hoping the thing would fire up at 3:00AM …. (auto test CD player…throttle…).  

    Yea, start at 3:00AM, exactly in 60 days while parked in the garage when you are sleeping or while someone is working on it with the hood opened. That would be a dumb design.


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    Blind Guy

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:46 am)

    Starting in May, 300 more pre-production or validation vehicles will be built on the full-scale Detroit Hamtramck
    assembly line
    . These will be used for testing by engineers, consumers, and the media.

    The part of this statement that intrigues me is who are the “consumers” going to be and will their role be like a project driveway?


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:52 am)

    joe:
    Yea, start at 3:00AM, parked in the garage while you are sleeping or while someone is working on it with the hood opened. That would be a dumb design.  

    Todd: I’m still perplexed by this idea of gas going stale. I ride my motorcycle for about eight months out of the year. The other four it sets in my garage. I’ll go out and start it once a month and let it run for awhile to warm up the oil, evaporate any water and allow gas to flow through the fuel system, bit I have never added gasoline or additives to it. The gasoline has never gumbed up or caused any type of problem. My lawnmower gets the brunt of bad treatment though. After about mid October I don’t use it until March or April. It sets outside, no gas additives or anything and come spring it starts right back up without any problem. I’ve done this for more years than I have fingers and toes. This is not a complaint about the engine starting up on the Volt. I think that is needed and having it automated is the way to go. I just have never had any problems with gasoline going stale and I don’t think it’ll be a problem with the Volt at all.  

    GM has to make the Volt idiot-proof. Otherwise, you will find someone who will complain.


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    BLDude

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:55 am)

    BillR: I think GM is looking for a home run here.Besides returning excellent fuel mileage, the environmental impact of this vehicle is also being minimized.So 230 mpg in urban driving (based on EPA methodology), a gas tank with no evaporative emissions, and a small ICE that is used on an infrequent basis.I wonder what kind of rating this will give the Volt, something like a near-zero emissions vehicle?
    Also,“GM will also recommend low gas using consumers only fill their tanks halfway to prevent spoilage.”Lyle- I know the gas tank capacity is still a mystery, but perhaps you can find out how many gallons is halfway?  

    Yeah, we don’t need to know the entire gas tank capacity. Just tell us what the half full amount is. ;)


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:58 am)

    ccombs: What about those odd people who won’t fill the car with any gas? Will it still run or will this be a problem?  

    Yea, it will run on fumes from the gas tank. LOL


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    Exp_EngTech

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:02 am)

    And what about that horn?
    Shouldn’t that be tested every 60 days…..automatically?
    That’s a safety item.

    There ought to be a law….. heh, heh…


  34. 34
    nasaman

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:14 am)

    For those “never use a drop of gas” Volt owners, assuming the tank holds 6 gals & the ICE runs 10 min (1/6 hr) every 2 months…

    At 50mpg and 50mph in CS mode, the ICE would use ~1gal/hr, or only ~1/6th gal in 10min every 2 months. This means it would take ~6 yrs to empty a 6 gal tank, so the gas would still have ample time to go stale if the car were never driven beyond its AER, as could be the case for many owners.

    This is one more reason I continue to believe GM would be wise to divide the tank into 2 parts, with the smaller part (say 4 gals) being the main tank & the larger part (say 8 gals) being the “spare” tank* —which except for extended travel would remain empty. The spare tank could then be opened & filled for long trips by a dash-mounted solenoid. Benefits… 1) fresher gas (4 gal tank); 2) >600mi range (12 gal total).

    * Remember, even the cheap original VW Beetle had a spare tank — it’s easy/cheap to do!


  35. 35
    Gary

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:15 am)

    Randy: Just when things are going good my electric bill goes up 40% PRev paid 9c KWHnow its 14c
    thats the equiv of gas going right to $4 a gallon  

    I don’t think so. That’s closer to 40 miles for way less than $1.50.


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    Blind Guy

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:17 am)

    ccombs
    : What about those odd people who won’t fill the car with any gas?

    Not putting any gas iin the tank is a bad idea. The gas in your tank acts like a natural coolant for the pump inside the tank, so if you keep your tank near empty your pump runs warmer and could shorten it’s lifespan. I think with some vehicles if you allow the tank to empty, it can be a problem getting the flow of gas back to normal, at least that’s what I’ve heard on Car Talk.


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    prowler

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:30 am)

    Blind Guy: ccombs: What about those odd people who won’t fill the car with any gas? </P

    Are you calling me odd? (actually, that’s OK)

    However, GM didn’t say what would happen if I leave the tank empty. If I only use it 20 miles/day max, why even put gas in?

    -ALL SPARKZZ


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:47 am)

    Michael: Information wise, clients such as yourself,have as much information as the retailers have at this point. I have no idea as to pricing (only rumors), package content, or anything else…I wish I had more to communicate.

    It sounds like you either have a very honest dealer or else one who is very indifferent. At any rate you have information and that is a good thing.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:00 am)

    I have left gas sitting in a gas can in my garage for 3-4 years at a time for lawn mowing purposes. I have yet to have a problem with it going stale and that’s not hermetically sealed or anything. I think this is more for the diagnostic functionality and keeping things circulating than for the stale gas problem. I think most people will drive beyond their AER at least once every 2 months anyway, like probably 90%.


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    Mike-o-Matic

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:03 am)

    Exp_EngTech: And what about that horn?
    Shouldn’t that be tested every 60 days…..automatically?
    That’s a safety item.There ought to be a law….. heh, heh…  

    Shut yo mouth! Got enough nanny government…


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    Mike-o-Matic

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:08 am)

    Ten minutes or so, every two months. That’s actually a lot less than I expected.

    As for the “never put in any gas” people, maybe they’d be better served with an EV with more than 40 miles of “real-world” AER anyway?


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:10 am)

    Todd: I’m still perplexed by this idea of gas going stale.

    I no longer cut my own grass, but my experience with the lawn mower is pretty similar. The snow blower however ALWAYS gives trouble the first time it is used for the winter. I usually try to run the thing dry at the end of the season. And then I dump all old gas (into the car) and get a fresh can full. Does not seem to matter. I’ve noticed that sometimes I will try to start it for a good while, then go inside for a good long while, then go back and try again. The first time it starts there is a cloud of white smoke. From then on it starts very quickly. I’m guessing that the gas dries and leaves a gummy residue that has to be dissolved, but only guessing.


  43. 43
    kdawg

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:20 am)

    My suggestion: Give the driver a warning, or countdown, that the engine is going to kick on to circulate things. If his battery is at 99%, he wont be expecting the engine to kick on, and that may suprise him.


  44. 44
    Jim I

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:26 am)

    Blind Guy: Starting in May, 300 more pre-production or validation vehicles will be built on the full-scale Detroit Hamtramck
    assembly line
    . These will be used for testing by engineers, consumers, and the media. The part of this statement that intrigues me is who are the “consumers” going to be and will their role be like a project driveway?  

    ===========================

    I was wondering exactly the same thing!

    It could be a Project Driveway, or it could be that these units will go to dealers to be used only for test drives.

    Now the next question would be, will they limit those to the “limited release areas”, or will they be all of the USA and Canada?

    Hey GM!!! We are here and ready to buy…………………

    :-)

    NPNS


  45. 45
    Jim I

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:29 am)

    JohnK:
    I no longer cut my own grass, but my experience with the lawn mower is pretty similar.The snow blower however ALWAYS gives trouble the first time it is used for the winter.I usually try to run the thing dry at the end of the season.And then I dump all old gas (into the car) and get a fresh can full.Does not seem to matter.I’ve noticed that sometimes I will try to start it for a good while, then go inside for a good long while, then go back and try again.The first time it starts there is a cloud of white smoke.From then on it starts very quickly.I’m guessing that the gas dries and leaves a gummy residue that has to be dissolved, but only guessing.  

    ============================

    I always thought the white smoke when the mower is started up for the first time was oil burning off that had settled in the cylinder over the winter….


  46. 46
    LeoK

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:36 am)

    Michael: A couple weeks ago (Feb. 5) we were discussing the GM 2011 Model Year Ordering Guide that included the Volt. Several talked about contact with their local dealers. I finally received a response (said he tried earlier but typed my email wrong). Here’s the response I got:The Volt information that you outlined in your e-mail is correct, based on the information I have. I am certain we will receive an initial allocation for production of the Volt, as soon as they are orderable from Chevrolet. As far as order placement, my best guess would be sometime in the July to August timeframe. Regarding a waiting list, we have frankly had a few who have expressed mild interest in the new Volt. As far as deposits, I prefer to wait until near the ordering timeframe, rather than tie up client’s money. Information wise, clients such as yourself,have as much information as the retailers have at this point. I have no idea as to pricing (only rumors), package content, or anything else…I wish I had more to communicate.  (Quote)

    Michael, +1 for sharing. Also +1 to the sales person for being honest. I suggest you continue to stay in touch with them.


  47. 47
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:39 am)

    prowler Says
     
    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:30 am)
    block quote
    Blind Guy
    : ccombs: What about those odd people who won’t fill the car with any gas? </P

    block quote end

    Are you calling me odd? (actually, that’s OK)

    However, GM didn’t say what would happen if I leave the tank empty. If I only use it 20 miles/day max, why even put gas in?

    -ALL SPARKZZ  

    For those "Odd People" who don't want to put gas in their Volt, please consider buying a bev and leave more Volts for others Ha Ha. BTW Prowler don't you own a Tesla Roadster? If so, what can you tell me about your car's battery life expectancy and warranty because we mmight consider a bev but theres no way we could afford a Tesla. I know Teslas performance far exceeds others bevs, but if you have any other insight to share about bevs I would appreciate your experience. Thanks


  48. 48
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:44 am)

    Dave K.: The issue of “stale gas” is silly. Last year we went into this topic in detail. The verdict being that typical brand name gasoline will have no problems for at least 6 months. This number applies to shelved gasoline (no mixing or sloshing). Sloshed fuel lasts longer.(Quote)

    DaveK, I believe the issue of stale gas came up in yesterdays discussion of E85 ethanol. Unlike petroleum based gasoline, ethanol does have a shelf life – and that could cause issues…. although it seems GM has that covered with the “pressurized zero evaporation gas tank to keep the gas fresh.”


  49. 49
    LeoK

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:48 am)

    Blind Guy: Starting in May, 300 more pre-production or validation vehicles will be built on the full-scale Detroit Hamtramckassembly line. These will be used for testing by engineers, consumers, and the media.The part of this statement that intrigues me is who are the “consumers” going to be and will their role be like a project driveway?  (Quote)

    GM … there is a gentleman in NY named Lyle that has his hand up to be one of your ‘consumers’! Please….

    Pretty please…..

    Please, mother, may I?…..


  50. 50
    Herm

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:48 am)

    joe:
    22
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:29 am)
    Herm: ahh.. finally we get some information. That and a sealed tank should prevent problems.. but only buy Top Tier gasoline.http://www.toptiergas.com/48mph is the average speed of the EPAs Hwy cycle.. so the Volt has been optimized for that.  
    I’m sorry but I fail to see where GM recommends “Top Tier gasoline .”  

    You failed to see that because they did not, my whole post is just a general statement from ME.. dont put cheapo corner store gas in the Volts tank, it may sit there for several years, again.. another statement from me.


  51. 51
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:49 am)

    Randy: Just when things are going good my electric bill goes up 40% PRev paid 9c KWH now its 14cthats the equiv of gas going right to $4 a gallon  (Quote)

    At least, your money stays in the US. That’s a major difference.


  52. 52
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:52 am)

    We live in Tucson and have gravel and desert plants with no grass to mow, however if we did I would buy an electric mower and not worry about my gas gumming up the engine.


  53. 53
    MuddyRoverRob

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (11:57 am)

    prowler:
    Are you calling me odd? (actually, that’s OK)However, GM didn’t say what would happen if I leave the tank empty. If I only use it 20 miles/day max, why even put gas in?-ALL SPARKZZ  

    If someone is dead set against ever using any gas at all then they should screw their head on straight and buy a BEV, NOT a Volt.

    For those of us who live in the real world the genset will fire up at least a couple times a week as we exceed the AER while we are doing our day to day running about, more often in the winter.

    —————————————————————————————

    Now Prowler, we get that you are a rich guy, you have a Tesla that pretty much defines you as such. Good for you! Really, I’m glad you have done very well for yourself!

    I’m also glad your Tesla is working well for you but I have a question. Do you drive the Tesla to the office in the morning, park it outside unplugged for 8 hours at 20F and then drive it home without issue? If so then just maybe I’m underestimating the BEV as a ‘breed’.

    I somehow bet that $100k sports car sits plugged-in in a nice warm parking garage at home and at the office.


  54. 54
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (12:00 pm)

    Exp_EngTech: And what about that horn?Shouldn’t that be tested every 60 days…..automatically?That’s a safety item.There ought to be a law….. heh, heh…  (Quote)

    I don’t think it’s such a good idea ;-)

    I once had a horn that didn’t work. The problem is that I found out when I needed to use it :-( Not good, not good…


  55. 55
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (12:03 pm)

    JohnK:
    I no longer cut my own grass, but my experience with the lawn mower is pretty similar.The snow blower however ALWAYS gives trouble the first time it is used for the winter.I usually try to run the thing dry at the end of the season.And then I dump all old gas (into the car) and get a fresh can full.Does not seem to matter.I’ve noticed that sometimes I will try to start it for a good while, then go inside for a good long while, then go back and try again.The first time it starts there is a cloud of white smoke.From then on it starts very quickly.I’m guessing that the gas dries and leaves a gummy residue that has to be dissolved, but only guessing.  

    Yep, there is stuff called Sta-Bil that keeps the varnish in the fuel from ‘gumming up the works’.

    It works great, before I started using it I had to rebuild my gas trimmers carb almost every spring. I’m picky on how an engine runs.


  56. 56
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (12:04 pm)

    LeoK:
    Michael, +1 for sharing.Also +1 to the sales person for being honest.I suggest you continue to stay in touch with them.  

    That’s my plan. My exact words to him in reply were, “I would like to maintain an open dialog on the progress of getting any generation 1 Volts to New Mexico. I have more than a ‘mild interest’ in the Volt and want to make sure that I have the opportunity to seriously evaluate the possibility to obtain one.”


  57. 57
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (12:10 pm)

    prowler: However, GM didn’t say what would happen if I leave the tank empty. If I only use it 20 miles/day max, why even put gas in?

    To allow the car to run the generator every once in a while for maintenance purposes.


  58. 58
    DonC

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (12:12 pm)

    Todd: I remember a state back east that shot up taxes on the wealthy (around 2004) figuring they would make a killing off the rich folks. Instead, over a period of 3 to 4 years enough of the rich folks moved out of the state to where the state was bringing in less in taxes than they were before the new taxes on the wealthy went into effect.

    WOW. I’m assuming you heard that in one of those chain emails that fly around the internets. Best not to open those actually. Not only is the content rank, they are a primary way spammers get your email address.


  59. 59
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (12:17 pm)

    prowler: However, GM didn’t say what would happen if I leave the tank empty. If I only use it 20 miles/day max, why even put gas in?

    The engine has to run periodically and you’d want enough gas in the tank to allow for this.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (12:22 pm)

    nasaman: This is one more reason I continue to believe GM would be wise to divide the tank into 2 parts, with the smaller part (say 4 gals) being the main tank & the larger part (say 8 gals) being the “spare” tank* —which except for extended travel would remain empty

    You are like a dog with a bone on this one! LOL You are just giving up.

    It’s not a bad idea but my guess is that we’re too late in the design process for this type of change.


  61. 61
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (12:36 pm)

    VOLTinME: “Peak all electric range occurs when driving between 45 and 50 mph.”What exactly does this mean? If I go 55mph the gas engine kicks in?  (Quote)

    I didnt understand at first… but it probably means you’ll get the most mile per gallon/kw at this speed >40 mile electric range and best milage on the petrol generator.


  62. 62
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (12:37 pm)

    “GM is using a pressurized zero evaporation gas tank to keep the gas fresh.”

    The design of the fuel tank may be less trivial than we’ve assumed (during discussions of capacity). If the pressurization is constant, it may be a couple of PSI’s higher than the highest-expected atmospheric pressure at sea level. At lowest-expected atmospheric pressure on top of Pike’s Peak (to pick a location completely at random ;-) ), this might amount to an appreciable difference; requiring heavier construction and greater attention to overall shape than a typical gas tank. How is the pressure released at the gas pump? How is it restored afterwards? If the pressure is not constant (varied to be always higher than the atmospheric pressure), what performs the tank’s pressure regulation?

    It’s good to know that the potential problem of stale gas has been anticipated. Just another reason why a true competitor to the Volt may be a long time in coming.


  63. 63
    Li-ion

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (12:39 pm)

    The cng Bi-fuel chevrolet had a program where it would switch over to gasoline once every 60 days if not used, it would switch back to cng on the firts decell.


  64. 64
    Allan

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (1:12 pm)

    The reason you would put SOME gas in it is the whole POINT! Otherwise, you may as well wait for a pure electric car to hit the market. And they will be available.

    I do anticipate traveling more than 40 miles on certain days, or having erratic driving reduce my electric mileage. I’m looking forward to that instant TORQUE!

    prowler:
    Are you calling me odd? (actually, that’s OK)However, GM didn’t say what would happen if I leave the tank empty. If I only use it 20 miles/day max, why even put gas in?-ALL SPARKZZ  


  65. 65
    omnimoeish

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (1:17 pm)

    Now Prowler, we get that you are a rich guy, you have a Tesla that pretty much defines you as such. Good for you! Really, I’m glad you have done very well for yourself!

    I’m also glad your Tesla is working well for you but I have a question. Do you drive the Tesla to the office in the morning, park it outside unplugged for 8 hours at 20F and then drive it home without issue? If so then just maybe I’m underestimating the BEV as a ‘breed’.

    I somehow bet that $100k sports car sits plugged-in in a nice warm parking garage at home and at the office.
    MuddyRoverRob: omnimoe

    He has it parked in the garage at home (I’ve seen pictures of it in the forums), but it’s got a freakin’ 200+ range and he only drives it 20 miles a day. Even under the coldest conditions in Virgina, or Maryland or wherever he lives, he would never have range problems.


  66. 66
    DaV8or

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (1:26 pm)

    VOLTinME: “Peak all electric range occurs when driving between 45 and 50 mph.”What exactly does this mean?If I go 55mph the gas engine kicks in?  

    It means that if you want your 40 miles of range, you have to drive in this speed zone. Most of us who use the freeway to get to work will never get 40 miles of AER.


  67. 67
    Tex-arl

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (1:40 pm)

    Dan Petit—Are you out there or did that plane take you out this morning?

    Humor me – reread # 23 from Todd. (Ha)


  68. 68
    jeffhre

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (1:46 pm)

    DonC: The engine has to run periodically and you’d want enough gas in the tank to allow for this.

    In this case…

    Exp_EngTech: And what about that horn?
    Shouldn’t that be tested every 60 days…..automatically?
    That’s a safety item.
    There ought to be a law….. heh, heh…

    There is a law…every time a government employee takes the wheel of a vehicle, ship or craft they are required to go through a checklist that includes the horn.

    Although some of nasamans colleagues may see an incredibly involved checklist process, but no horn. All depends.


  69. 69
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (1:53 pm)

    Tex-arl: Dan Petit—Are you out there or did that plane take you out this morning?Humor me – reread # 23 from Todd. (Ha)  

    Dan said he was running late for work at 7:45am his time. Besides, it was DonC that had an issue with comment #23, not Dan.


  70. 70
    Herm

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (2:04 pm)

    DaV8or:
    66
     

    DaV8or Says
     
    Feb 18th, 2010 (1:26 pm)
    VOLTinME: “Peak all electric range occurs when driving between 45 and 50 mph.”What exactly does this mean?If I go 55mph the gas engine kicks in?  
    It means that if you want your 40 miles of range, you have to drive in this speed zone. Most of us who use the freeway to get to work will never get 40 miles of AER.  

    I think thats exactly what it means, but they were polite about it. Electrics have a different way to get maximun range unlike ICE powered cars, as an example a Tesla gets maximum range (400+ miles) at a speed of 18mph.. and its probably the same for the Volt.

    See the Tesla blog for the technical reasons:

    http://www.teslamotors.com/blog4/?p=70

    My guess that the Volt will actually get better range at 20 or 35mph than it does at 55mph.. but you better keep it at that speed if you actually want those 40 miles of all electric range.

    My predictions:

    1.Volts range at 20mph average is 60 miles
    2.Volts range at 48mph average is 40 miles
    3. range in both city and hwy driving will be very close to each other, around 1 mile difference.
    4. since people tend to drive the same day to day, range will be very predictable from day to day.. an advantage of electric power.. just keep an eye on the odometer and you will know when the genset will kick in.


  71. 71
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (2:12 pm)

    Jackson: “GM is using a pressurized zero evaporation gas tank to keep the gas fresh.”
    The design of the fuel tank may be less trivial than we’ve assumed (during discussions of capacity). If the pressurization is constant, it may be a couple of PSI’s higher than the highest-expected atmospheric pressure at sea level. At lowest-expected atmospheric pressure on top of Pike’s Peak (to pick a location completely at random ), this might amount to an appreciable difference; requiring heavier construction and greater attention to overall shape than a typical gas tank. How is the pressure released at the gas pump? How is it restored afterwards? If the pressure is not constant (varied to be always higher than the atmospheric pressure), what performs the tank’s pressure regulation?
    It’s good to know that the potential problem of stale gas has been anticipated. Just another reason why a true competitor to the Volt may be a long time in coming.  

    Are we going to get a faceful of gasoline when we try to refill it at the gas station?.. probably not a good idea to be smoking then :)


  72. 72
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (2:19 pm)

    nasaman:
    #34  
    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:14 am)
    For those “never use a drop of gas” Volt owners, assuming the tank holds 6 gals & the ICE runs 10 min (1/6 hr) every 2 months…
    At 50mpg and 50mph in CS mode, the ICE would use ~1gal/hr, or only ~1/6th gal in 10min every 2 months. This means it would take ~6 yrs to empty a 6 gal tank, so the gas would still have ample time to go stale if the car were never driven beyond its AER, as could be the case for many owners.

    This may be the reason that GM recommends you keep the tank only half full.. that complementary full tank of gas the dealer gives you may be the first and last time gas is put in the car.

    Some later generations of the Volt may even use a dealer replaced canister of LPG to fuel the genset.. for those people that never exceed the AER.


  73. 73
    CorvetteGuy

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (2:33 pm)

    “And, my General Manager tells me “March next year” will be the absolute earliest our dealership will even see one… “If we’re lucky”. — So we are not at the top of the CA list. Try ‘Hollyweird’. ”

    Tough room today! You guys are marking me down for this one?

    It has been well established, or at least highly agreed upon, that if ANY VOLTs make it to a showroom before Dec. 31st of this year, that (in Kah-Lee-Forn-Yah) good ol’ Ahhnold will be there for a few press photos, and the person taking delivery will most likely be a personal friend of his, if not the “Governator” himself getting one.

    The Bay Area and Hollywood Dealers will get first dibs on allocations for California. I am confident of that. I’m only now getting agreement from the General Manager and the owner of the dealership here.

    But if I had 50,000 VOLTs to sell to Lyle’s list, I would definitely let you know.


  74. 74
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (2:42 pm)

    LeoK:
    # 48
     Feb 18th, 2010 (11:44 am)
    Dave K.: The issue of “stale gas” is silly. Last year we went into this topic in detail. The verdict being that typical brand name gasoline will have no problems for at least 6 months. This number applies to shelved gasoline (no mixing or sloshing). Sloshed fuel lasts longer.(Quote)
    DaveK, I believe the issue of stale gas came up in yesterdays discussion of E85 ethanol. Unlike petroleum based gasoline, ethanol does have a shelf life – and that could cause issues…. although it seems GM has that covered with the “pressurized zero evaporation gas tank to keep the gas fresh.”  

    Mostly is the moisture problem with ethanol, it has to be kept sealed or it will suck up water from the air.. the methanol fuel used in model airplane engines has the same problem. As long as the tank is kept perfectly sealed it should be good for a long time. Here is an alarmist site:

    http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html


  75. 75
    RB

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (2:42 pm)

    32 joe: Yea, it will run on fumes from the gas tank. LOL  

    Clarifying just a bit, the fumes from the gas tank in the car in the adjacent lane…. (LOL)


  76. 76
    Biodieseljeep

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (2:45 pm)

    Been meaning to post this song for a while, from my children’s favorite CD “Here Comes Science” from They Might Be Giants:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAv6M1Bai0c


  77. 77
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (2:47 pm)

    Herm #70 Says: “4. since people tend to drive the same day to day, range will be very predictable from day to day.. an advantage of electric power.. just keep an eye on the odometer and you will know when the genset will kick in.”

    =============================================

    Or, you could take a look at the really cool display screens that show battery SOC status and ICE status…………………

    Can’t wait to actually see some of those!!!!!

    NPNS


  78. 78
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (2:47 pm)

    Li-ion:
    # 63  
    Feb 18th, 2010 (12:39 pm)
    The cng Bi-fuel chevrolet had a program where it would switch over to gasoline once every 60 days if not used, it would switch back to cng on the firts decell.  

    Interesting, so GM does have experience on keeping gasoline from going stale.


  79. 79
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (2:51 pm)

    70 Herm:
    1.Volts range at 20mph average is 60 miles
    2.Volts range at 48mph average is 40 miles

    So long as “average” implies a sustained, steady mph I think Herm has excellent numbers.


  80. 80
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (2:51 pm)

    Biodieseljeep: Been meaning to post this song for a while, from my children’s favorite CD “Here Comes Science” from They Might Be Giants:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAv6M1Bai0c  

    =============================

    Still not as great an achievement as the famous Volt Dancers!!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvwTMZNWGuk

    ;-)


  81. 81
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    Feb 18th, 2010 (2:59 pm)

    73 CorvetteGuy: “And, my General Manager tells me “March next year” will be the absolute earliest our dealership will even see one… “If we’re lucky”.

    I’m going to be optimistic and forecast that you will get a steady stream well before March. GM will make 1000 Volts/month in the first year. These will be sold through 100 dealers, I project, and yours will be one of them, mainly because you work there and are interested. Your dealership is going to get 1 Volt in December and start getting about 10/month beginning in January. Yes, the 1st couple of months are going to go mainly to the governator and his TV and movie friends, but then they will flow to you and others in the regular channel.

    Just wait and see :)


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    theirish1

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (3:05 pm)

    Similar to a previous poster, this is the latest response I have gotten from a large dealer here in the midwest:

    “I wanted to thank you for your interest in a Chevy Volt. I can’t tell you a whole lot, but I do know that production is scheduled to start 4th quarter of this year. Production for the first year will be very limited (probably around 10,000 units) & will be very hard to find in the midwest. Until we have further information implying we will be getting some units we will not start a waiting list. Sorry but this is all the information that my GM representative has for us at this time.”


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    RB

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (3:06 pm)

    80 Jim I: Still not as great an achievement as the famous Volt Dancers!!!!

    Thanks for the post. It reminds me that I liked the song, and I liked the dancers :)


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (3:12 pm)

    Blind Guy: The part of this statement that intrigues me is who are the “consumers” going to be and will their role be like a project driveway?

    I was wondering the same thing.
    Be well,
    Tagamet


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    EVO

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (3:21 pm)

    1. I was glad to hear that the Volt will use its charging time and/or ICE for at vehicle heating applications, regardless of AER, kind of a practical no brainer as an ICE produces 75% heat and 25% power. Now this on board occasional automatic self maintenance to keep the engine in good running operation, very practical and thoughtful. Wow, the Volt is just sounding more and more like an engineering class act. GM should be be proud of this baby and more nuturing of its growth and success than the average mom.

    Please note my correct use of its, with no apostrophe for the possesive.

    2. What type of vehicles do princesses support?

    All types of EVs. of course.

    If Disney had a pair, they would do demos of the Volt with all their hero/heroine characters for a cross marketing barter with GM. You know that Mulan would launch it in Sport Mode and use Low to do one foot driving on a snake shaped race course.

    6a0120a635cd9d970c0120a8a3c4d0970b-pi


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    Noel Park

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (3:23 pm)

    joe: GM has to make the Volt idiot-proof. Otherwise, you will find someone who will complain.

    #30

    I’m sure that’s how they see it, but frankly this sort of insults my intelligence. I used to remember to change my oil before an “idiot light” started coming on to remind me. How about a sticker on the sun visor that says “Start the engine every 60 days”? Or a simple idiot light driven by the clock that says the same? I just get really bored with cars, and all sorts of other appliances, adding gee-whiz features just to show they can. KISS.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (3:25 pm)

    Tagamet: Blind Guy: The part of this statement that intrigues me is who are the “consumers” going to be and will their role be like a project driveway?

    I was wondering the same thing.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Probably not me, LOL. I think I’m somewhere on Bob Lutz’s “Do Not Drive” list. Along with a few others whom I’m too polite to name, hahaha.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (3:28 pm)

    EVO: Please note my correct use of its, with no apostrophe for the possesive.

    Good job! +1 I’m looking over my shoulder now every time I use “its” or “it’s”. Gotta look good here, LOL.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (3:32 pm)

    RB:
    I’m going to be optimistic and forecast that you will get a steady stream well before March.GM will make 1000 Volts/month in the first year.These will be sold through 100 dealers, I project, and yours will be one of them, mainly because you work there and are interested.Your dealership is going to get 1 Volt in December and start getting about 10/month beginning in January.Yes, the 1st couple of months are going to go mainly to the governator and his TV and movie friends, but then they will flow to you and others in the regular channel.Just wait and see   

    Nice optimism! +1
    Be well
    Tagamet


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (3:39 pm)

    Tagamet: RB:
    I’m going to be optimistic and forecast that you will get a steady stream well before March.GM will make 1000 Volts/month in the first year.These will be sold through 100 dealers, I project, and yours will be one of them, mainly because you work there and are interested.Your dealership is going to get 1 Volt in December and start getting about 10/month beginning in January.Yes, the 1st couple of months are going to go mainly to the governator and his TV and movie friends, but then they will flow to you and others in the regular channel.Just wait and see

    Nice optimism! +1
    Be well
    Tagamet

    Yeah, really. You actually jump started me to go back and give him a +1 too. +1 to you too.

    Did you notice that he even had something nice to say about the Volt dancers? He must have gotten up in the RIGHT side of the bed today, as opposed to whoever it was that got up on the wrong side yesterday, LOL.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (3:46 pm)

    #84 Tagamet Blind Guy
    : The part of this statement that intrigues me is who are the “consumers” going to be and will their role be like a project driveway?

    block quote end

    I was wondering the same thing.

    If people on this list are being considered, I think the majority would say that Lyle and you Tag and hopefully a few others should be top on that list. GM please make it so!
    BTW Tagamet, I was wondering if your alias has a meaning you would care to share with us?


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (3:57 pm)

    As a person who owns a whole bunch of vehicles I can tell you right now that gas getting stale gumming up and causing injector problems is a major concern to keep the gas fresh is a huge deal. If you only use the volt for 40 miles or less a day, it’s a good idea just to keep quarter of a tank, but there is another alternative to keep your gas fresh. Although I would recommend keeping a full tank and using seafoam which is a additive to gasoline not only does it keep your injector injectors clean it also keeps the gas from going stale a bottle of seafoam from Napa runs about five dollars. On another topic anybody who runs out and gets licenses to add a charging station in your garage is foolish if you go out and pay attention to every law book you’re never ever to get anything done and giving half your income to the government is never a wise idea. I will agree that as more and more electric vehicles hit the highways government is going to find a way to tax you more. If you love big taxes and big government you must love this new administration, if you don’t like big taxes and big government in November the county have a chance to change who that. Constitutional conservative


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (4:10 pm)

    hi Leo K #48 …

    LeoK: DaveK, I believe the issue of stale gas came up in yesterdays discussion of E85 ethanol. Unlike petroleum based gasoline, ethanol does have a shelf life – and that could cause issues….

    Gasoline placed in a sealed container and stored (not sloshed) remains fresh for 6 months. It then discolors to brown, but is still usable for a time. E85 will keep for just 90 days if unsealed. As E85 absorbs water twice as fast as gasoline. If your E85 absorbs enough water it will layer.

    The first year Volt is unable to run on E85.
    Voltec models have a sealed system.
    The fuel will be sloshed during Volt operation.

    My normal driving cycle will run the ICE between 5 to 30 minutes per month. Add the periodic unexpected use of the Volt. Gasoline going “stale” isn’t an issue.

    =D-Volt


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (4:24 pm)

    Herm: joe

    Thanks for the clarification. I thought maybe you read it somewhere that GM required such fuel for the Volt.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (4:35 pm)

    jeff j:
    # 92
     Feb 18th, 2010 (3:57 pm)
    As a person who owns a whole bunch of vehicles I can tell you right now that gas getting stale gumming up and causing injector problems is a major concern to keep the gas fresh is a huge deal.

    Jeff, what are you seeing with fuel injected engines and bad gas?.. carburated engine I can see suffering from bad gas and gumming up.. but fuel injected cars use essentially (if in good repair) sealed systems that never gum up.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (4:59 pm)

    Opel seems taking the volt power-train but with reduction of a EV range of 4 kms they managed to make a mid size car (problem is still 4-seat upper mid-size concept vehicle ) with Co-efficient of drag 0.22 and it looks more production ready and not a cc of volt/converj.

    Wondering we get it as a Buick :-)


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (5:10 pm)

    Nothing surprising about this 60 day event. I had stated in the past that my plans was to run the engine some at least once a month just to keep it in good working order. A short trip to the country to visit family or friends would always require some gasoline usage since nearly all of them live 50 to 65 miles from me. So what is new?


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (5:26 pm)

    Exp_EngTech: Ahhh yes. …. but will this 60 day interval be precise?Can I set my watch to it ?“The engine will only run while the car is in motion….”There goes some of the fun.I was hoping the thing would fire up at 3:00AM …. (auto test CD player…throttle…).  (Quote)


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (5:26 pm)

    Funny!!! :)


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (5:39 pm)

    Blind Guy: prowler Says
     
    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:30 am)
    block quote
    Blind Guy
    : ccombs: What about those odd people who won’t fill the car with any gas? </Pblock quote endAre you calling me odd? (actually, that’s OK)However, GM didn’t say what would happen if I leave the tank empty. If I only use it 20 miles/day max, why even put gas in?-ALL SPARKZZ   For those “Odd People” who don’t want to put gas in their Volt, please consider buying a bev and leave more Volts for others Ha Ha.BTW Prowler don’t you own a Tesla Roadster?If so, what can you tell me about your car’s battery life expectancy and warranty because we mmight consider a bev but theres no way we could afford a Tesla.I know Teslas performance far exceeds others bevs, but if you have any other insight to share about bevs I would appreciate your experience.Thanks  

    First of all, this new site is driving me crazy – I tried Private Messaging to you, but your link in this message isn’t working and I can’t find you in the member list. If you can figure it out, PM your Email address to me and I’ll answer your specific questions on battery realities.

    I would actually like GM to answer this question for 2 reasons:

    1. I don’t believe it’s atypical for a family to have 2 cars where one is the long-distance car and the other is a local “work and errand car”. My wife works less than a mile away, usually walks, but needs a car for unpleasant days (and there’s safety issues involved) and for general local use – grocery shopping, gym, visiting, local errands. In this mode, the second car will NEVER see more than 40 miles per day. This does not seem out of the normal given GM’s statistic that “78% of cars are driven less than 40 miles per day”. If I want an electric car (for whatever reason) will the Volt be a no-compromise all-electric car if it never hits its AER? (and if, for some unforeseen reason I need to go further, there’s nothing stopping me from putting gas in the tank, is there?)

    2. I’m asking the extreme-limit question to get the total answer. Yes, the Tesla Roadster is ALL-ELECTRIC and I followed its development closely enough to think I know the question to ask. Is the Volt REALLY all-electric up to 40 miles? Is the passenger heat ALL ELECTRIC, or does the engine kick in? Will it operate in ALL-ELECTRIC MODE down to -40, or does the engine kick in? Does the battery conditioning drain the battery/range, or does the engine kick in? There’s been a lot of theorizing on this board that the engine will assist the motor when performance is needed – IS THIS TRUE? Bottom line: if I drain the gas, will the car operate any differently within its all-electric range? This is NOWHERE NEAR being answered.

    3. (who says an engineer can count) – it’s amusing watching the extreme reactions to simple questions on this site. How this simple question brings up inappropriate comments about my personal situation is absolutely amazing! (Post 53: “Now Prowler, we get that you are a rich guy, you have a Tesla that pretty much defines you as such.”)

    PM me for more.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (5:41 pm)

    BTW: Price of Mobile premium here in Santa Barbara is $3.39 per gallon. Crude is up 7% on the week. Expect to see a 5 cent per gallon price hike at your local provider this weekend.

    =D-Volt


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (5:48 pm)

    Allan: prowler

    Allan: The reason you would put SOME gas in it is the whole POINT! Otherwise, you may as well wait for a pure electric car to hit the market. And they will be available.
    I do anticipate traveling more than 40 miles on certain days, or having erratic driving reduce my electric mileage. I’m looking forward to that instant TORQUE!
      

    Why “wait” for an all electric car when the Volt IS an all-electric car up to it’s AER (40 miles as the EPA rates it). If I NEVER need to go more than 20 miles per day (actually, Mrs. prowler) WHY DO I NEED ANYTHING ELSE?


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (5:57 pm)

    prowler: There’s been a lot of theorizing on this board that the engine will assist the motor when performance is needed – IS THIS TRUE? Bottom line: if I drain the gas, will the car operate any differently within its all-electric range? This is NOWHERE NEAR being answered.

    Video clips regarding the Volt shine a bit on light on this. The ICE is not used at all until the T battery drains to customer depletion (the CD point). Initial battery range has been described as 32 to 40+ miles per house wall charge. When the Volt is in CS (ICE) mode. The ICE provides electricity directly to the electric motor. This measure has been described as “just enough”. No extra ICE energy is directed to the battery at all. The brake regen always flows directly to the battery as recharge. And never directly to the electric motor.

    The only time the ICE and battery work together is after the battery has been drained to CD point. And this is only under the heaviest of demands or work loads. Such as being to the floor on a steep hill climb. Each climb is followed with brake regen. Especially when operating with the shift lever in L (strongest regen). Which prepares the T battery for another hill climb assist if needed.

    =D-Volt


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (6:07 pm)

    Dave K.: BTW: Price of … premium here …=D-Volt  (Quote)

    1. Put the lowest octane rating your vehicle is designed for (see your owner’s manual or fuel refill area) so you don’t gouge yourself. Did anyone say the Volt REQUIRED premium?

    “A common misconception is that power output or fuel mileage can be improved by burning higher octane fuel than a particular engine was designed for. ”

    2. If you live at a high elevation/altitude, get an EV.

    “United States, in the Rocky Mountain (high altitude) states, 85 AKI is the minimum octane, and 91 AKI is the maximum octane available in fuel. The reason for this is that in higher-altitude areas, a typical naturally-aspirated engine draws in less air mass per cycle due to the reduced density of the atmosphere. This directly translates to less fuel and reduced absolute compression in the cylinder, therefore deterring knock. It is safe to fill up a carbureted car that normally takes 87 AKI fuel at sea level with 85 AKI fuel in the mountains, but at sea level the fuel may cause damage to the engine. A disadvantage to this strategy is that most turbocharged vehicles are unable to produce full power, even when using the “premium” 91 AKI fuel. ”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating#Effects_of_octane_rating

    Sigh, every day I’m reminded of things I forgot years ago when I switched from a turbocharged herky jerky full gasser vehicle (my next step is to just start calling them herky jerkys) that required premium (and liked to pop its turbo plug when hooned) to a better performing EV.

    3. That seems a weirdly high mph for maximum AER. They have me scratching my head on that one. Is is gear ratioed for an actual max speed of 250 mph, but they have it speed limited to less than 100 mph, or what? The aero doesn’t look sleeker than a starfighter or fighting falcon. That must be some amazing electric motor they’re using. Anyone have any insight on this? BTW, congratulations to General (electric) Motors for finally making what their own name is.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (6:08 pm)

    Or, you could take a look at the really cool display screens that show battery SOC status and ICE status…………………Can’t wait to actually see some of those!!!!!NPNS  

    here’s my favorite electric display:

    100_0686.jpg?t=1266534405


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (6:22 pm)

    Noel Park:
    Yeah, really.You actually jump started me to go back and give him a +1 too.+1 to you too.Did you notice that he even had something nice to say about the Volt dancers?He must have gotten up in the RIGHT side of the bed today, as opposed to whoever it was that got up on the wrong side yesterday, LOL.  

    You’re probably right regarding the genuine shift to optimism on his part (but just to be safe, I sent him a Private Message about checking his meds)(just kidding)
    Be well,
    Tagamet


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (6:33 pm)

    Dave K.: BTW: Crude is up 7% on the week. Expect to see a 5 cent per gallon price hike at your local provider this weekend.=D-Volt  (Quote)

    My advice? Don’t become a day trader in oil or gasoline futures derivatives combination strategies.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602081&sid=aYEIK4yTRrk4


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (6:41 pm)

    Michael:
    Dan said he was running late for work at 7:45am his time.Besides, it was DonC that had an issue with comment #23, not Dan.  

    Hey Micheal,

    Just got in at 5:10pm local time. Thanks for the thoughtful concern. I did see a thick vertical column of black smoke on the horizon this morning (about three miles away I had guessed), as I was driving toward my first shop appointment. But when I got to my fourth shop appointment for the morning, the tech there had a picture of another different calamity on internet news, and explained what had happened.
    Maybe we could try to be more attentive if we think someone needs assistance, but, all too often, there is not a reaching out by those who need help. This is anther sad occurence regarding a plane. I hope no one else was harmed.

    For Todd re: stale gas:

    There really is a huge huge difference between gasolines that the consumer has no idea about. If ever there was “pennywise and a ton of foolishness”, it is falling for the “commodity brokers” advertising toward the sense of thrift in all of us. There are so many good things in the Top Tier gasolines that you really ought to find out about that prevent stale conditions and sludging all over the place, and ***lower fuel economy after all****, never worth the “savings”!!!.

    In some Corvettes, on the valve cover, it says “Use Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil”. I think that the fuel tank door in a Voltec vehicle ought to specify what brand and octane also “to maintain warranties”.

    The simple difference is where you buy it. TV media who hawk the “cheapest gasoline locations in town” for when the price goes up are not doing consumers ***any*** favors. Once someone gets into the habit of getting cheap gas, (Walmart gas is the worst I’ve ever seen by far), and they keep on getting it, they are going to really pay the price later on, as well as with it immediately in their tanks, as the PCM retards the timing to prevent Nitrous Oxides. (The engine PCM knows, of course, that you are using cheap gas.) So, you always get less distance to the dollar anyway in addition to the sludging and carbon buildup everywhere anyway. Pennywise and ton foolish is what cheap gas is.

    Just get Shell 87, and stay with it. (Get a Shell credit or debit card and save that exact difference anyways compared to those terrible bad gasolines. They give you a better discount that way anyway!!)
    Then everything will stay fine as far as a quality of gas is concerned.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (6:47 pm)

    Dan Petit: …Just get Shell…  (Quote)

    Are you Dutch, by any chance?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dutch_Shell#Human_rights_concerns

    Just being my usual provocative self.

    ;)


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (6:50 pm)

    EVO: My advice? Don’t become a day trader in oil or gasoline futures derivatives combination strategies.

    #106

    Taken. +1


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (7:02 pm)

    Noel Park: #106Taken. +1  (Quote)

    Well, I did last all day this time before I got snarky on folks not doing research or thinking things through. I had to do something to balance out the saccharine princesses in #85.

    :(


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (7:06 pm)

    EVO:
    Are you Dutch, by any chance?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dutch_Shell#Human_rights_concernsJust being my usual provocative self.   

    “I’m glad you asked that question” LOL.

    No, I’m of Canadian French heritage. Back on topic: It’s only just about what gasoline is best for Voltec vehicles. If Exxon, for example, has the best natural gas reserves for a greater percentage of municipal power mix with more natural gas (as opposed to nasty nasty coal), fired grid electricity (for 120volt/240volt residential home power to recharge the Voltec vehicles), then let us try to somehow move to get more of our Voltec energy that way if possible.

    If we work to promote what is best for us all from the strengths and assets available from people and companies, then what has happened in the past may somehow be given a chance to be offset.
    Open mindedness to work with the very best of what any person or company has to offer always pays back a far better measure for the public good.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (7:16 pm)

    Blind Guy: If people on this list are being considered, I think the majority would say that Lyle and you Tag and hopefully a few others should be top on that list. GM please make it so!
    BTW Tagamet, I was wondering if your alias has a meaning you would care to share with us?

    Hi…. I’ve been staring at the cursor following “Hi” forEVER, wondering why in the world I’m so uncomfortable calling you “Blindguy”! I’ve worked very closely with special-ability people for decades, and have *never* been uncomfortable with them (breaking the news to parents is a whole other story). I guess your handle (to me) has a certain intimacy that just doesn’t “fit” with “hi”. Obviously, that’s a problem *I* own (and will think about at length tonight). It’s way more than cool that you are as demonstrably comfortable with life. I know I’m WAY OT, but just thought that I’d share.
    Back to the answer (yet still apparently avoiding a salutation)(lol). It’s incredibly kind of you to lump me “up there” with Lyle, but I’m just one of the folks here. Granted a very vocal, incredibly prescient, and persistently “over the top” “reason be damned” optimistic guy, but still just one of the guys. Lyle is obviously the remarkable “Father of the movement”, with more energy than Howie Mandel on crack.
    Regarding my “handle”, originally, way back when computer programs came on magnetic tape and smoke signals were far faster than email, the only place to actually interact with people in “molassified” real-time, there were chat rooms. Given my irrepressible (often embarrassing) sense of humor, I chose “shrinkwrap” as my handle. I’m a shrink and we were rapping – get it? (g) Before too long I found many downsides to having people I don’t know, aware almost immediately that I was a shrink. I’ll skip over the many anecdotes. About that time a prescription medication came out called “Tagamet”. It was also about that time that I really enjoyed online fantasy role playing games. Since the medication was expensive and prescription only, very few people had heard of it. To me, it had a kind of medieval Knights of old “ring” to it, so I er, stole it. The fact that it’s a medication for stomach distress fit my vocation pretty well too (g).
    Sorry for the very long-winded reply, but Hey, I’m a shrink, and sometimes I even get stuck on “Hi”.
    Be well,
    Tagamet


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (7:27 pm)

    90 Noel Park: Did you notice that he even had something nice to say about the Volt dancers? He must have gotten up in the RIGHT side of the bed today, as opposed to whoever it was that got up on the wrong side yesterday, LOL.  

    Very observant (and correct as always) Thanks, LOL RB


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (7:28 pm)

    Herm:
    Mostly is the moisture problem with ethanol, it has to be kept sealed or it will suck up water from the air.. the methanol fuel used in model airplane engines has the same problem. As long as the tank is kept perfectly sealed it should be good for a long time. Here is an alarmist site:http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html  

    Hey Herm,
    Yes, if the tank is kept sealed, but, occasionally, people sometimes after fueling, fail to turn the gas cap to “click” three times (for the right torque on the seal), (setting off the check engine light after a few miles to ten miles), especially when the cold wind is blowing during refueling, and the driver becomes inattentive to the procedure and just wants to get inside out of the bitter cold.

    There will have to be immediate software testing for that (“fuel tank pressure not achieved” as sensed) when the “percent fuel in tank” data parameter shows at least a slight increase in fuel added.

    “Please tighten the fuel cap three clicks” ought to be displayed on the driver’s instrument display when getting home.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (7:30 pm)

    #112 Tagamet
    Sorry I didn’t mean to put you on the spot. My first/X wife use to use that medication, so now I will try not to think of her when I hear your post LOL.


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    Blind Guy

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (7:43 pm)

    #99 Prowler “battery realities”
    Well I like to learn new things and I wasn’t aware of the members list until I investigated more after your reply to me. I might be registered now I think. It may take me some time to learn how to navigate that portion of this site. Gotta cook dinner for my wife and I for now.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (7:44 pm)

    Dan Petit:… Maybe we could try to be more attentive if we think someone needs assistance, but, all too often, there is not a reaching out by those who need help. This is anther sad occurence regarding a plane. I hope no one else was harmed…

    Hey Dan,
    Even in the midst of that tragedy with the plane flying into the IRS bldg, there were heroes. A bunch of workers in the adjoining lot were installing glass when the plane hit. They jumped in their truck and pulled it up to the smoking bldg and with “arm” on the truck rescued people from the second and third floors!
    Be well,
    Tagamet


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (7:49 pm)

    Blind Guy: #112TagametSorry I didn’t mean to put you on the spot.My first/X wife use to use that medication, so now I will try not to think of her when I hear your post LOL.  

    That’s a good “teachable moment” for the discussion about “things happening together are not necessarily cause and effect”. I’m sure she would have needed the medication anyway (wink).
    Be well,
    T a g a m e t


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (7:55 pm)

    Tagamet:
    About that time a prescription medication came out called “Tagamet”. The fact that it’s a medication for stomach distress fit my vocation pretty well too (g). Sorry for the very long-winded reply, but Hey, I’m a shrink, and sometimes I even get stuck on “Hi”.
    Be well,
    Tagamet  

    I was waiting all day for your reply on the moniker. I knew what the med was, took it as a prescription for a while back then, and actually mentally connected it to your vocation. Then I couldn’t figure how to connect ulcer medication to your current optimism. Be well, be very well!


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:05 pm)

    Michael:
    I was waiting all day for your reply on the moniker.I knew what the med was, took it as a prescription for a while back then, and actually mentally connected it to your vocation.Then I couldn’t figure how to connect ulcer medication to your current optimism.Be well, be very well!  

    Sorry for the delayed response. It never occurred to me that it’d be of interest! The truth of the matter is that it holds NO relationship to my optimism, although I’ve been known to cause dyspepsia. (lol)
    You be very well too,
    Tagamet


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:06 pm)

    Tagamet: I’ve been staring at the cursor following “Hi” forEVER, wondering why in the world I’m so uncomfortable calling you “Blindguy”

    I dunno. Could be because this is a car fan site and you’re talking about buying cars and you’re envisioning a “blind guy” behind the wheel of a car? Or perhaps you’re uncomfortable thinking of a fellow Volt aficionado as being “blind” since that suggest we’re blind to reality? LOL


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:25 pm)

    DonC:
    I dunno. Could be because this is a car fan site and you’re talking about buying cars and you’re envisioning a “blind guy” behind the wheel of a car? Or perhaps you’re uncomfortable thinking of a fellow Volt aficionado as being “blind” since that suggest we’re blind to reality? LOL  

    Nope, I’m pretty sure neither of those hits the mark. I’m leaning toward the idea that I’ve always been emotionally “close” to the folks I’ve worked with for so long. I know that I’ve witnessed incredibly callous behavior from people who don’t know how Blessed they are, toward people who are cruising though life with incredible challenges. If I was walking in the mall and heard someone yell “HEY BLIND GUY!”, my wife would probably be posting my bail. (I say “probably” because it’d depend on her mood)
    Be well,
    Tagamet


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:30 pm)

    It’s great to see this information… 66000 miles in less than a year… that’s a lot of driving…
    I hope they are putting the stainless steel exhaust , galvanized metal and no rust brake parts like they did in my Buick…. if they do these cars will be lasting a lot longer than we are used to.
    Maybe stale gas will make it obvious that we can do without the ICE. Make the ICE optional… the savings could either lower the price or be for a larger battery… say …instead of 40 miles… 60 to 100 miles…. this would include just about all commuters.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:30 pm)

    EVO: 1. I was glad to hear that the Volt will use its charging time and/or ICE for at vehicle heating applications, regardless of AER, kind of a practical no brainer as an ICE produces 75% heat and 25% power. Now this on board occasional automatic self maintenance to keep the engine in good running operation, very practical and thoughtful. Wow, the Volt is just sounding more and more like an engineering class act. GM should be be proud of this baby and more nuturing of its growth and success than the average mom.Please note my correct use of its, with no apostrophe for the possesive.2. What type of vehicles do princesses support?All types of EVs. of course.If Disney had a pair, they would do demos of the Volt with all their hero/heroine characters for a cross marketing barter with GM. You know that Mulan would launch it in Sport Mode and use Low to do one foot driving on a snake shaped race course.   (Quote)

    I always thought it would be cool if Disney rebuilt its Autopia in “Futureland,” with its smelly stinky lawn-mower engine cars, with little Volts and maybe Leafs, Focuses, too. My daughters love those stupid little cars! I thought GM would have the most to gain from that kind of cross promotion (and Disney, too).


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:40 pm)

    “Starting in May, 300 more pre-production or validation vehicles will be built on the full-scale Detroit Hamtramck assembly line. These will be used for testing by engineers, consumers, and the media.”

    VoltNationS with test drives! Yes Please!


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:46 pm)

    Volt45:
    I always thought it would be cool if Disney rebuilt its Autopia in “Futureland,” with its smelly stinky lawn-mower engine cars, with little Volts and maybe Leafs, Focuses, too.My daughters love those stupid little cars!I thought GM would have the most to gain from that kind of cross promotion (and Disney, too).  

    I’m afraid I have to disagree with you on this one. Just think of all the potential law suits for whiplash, when the kids tramp down on the pedal and that instant torque kicks in! Granted, the kids would be SMILING a lot (lol)
    Be well,
    Tagamet


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:46 pm)

    Related to Gas usage etc.

    Some numbers regarding the Opel Flexstreem.
    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/02/flextreme-20100218.html#more

    Might give us some idea of fuel consumption for the Volt in CS mode.
    The above article states, “Average gasoline fuel consumption is estimated at 1.6 L/100 km (147 mpg US), with CO2 emissions of less than 40 g/km.”

    These figures are an extrapolation from the Flexstreem data but could give us an idea at least for the Voltec EREV system.
    Assuming the above calculation (1.6L/100Km) is using the first 100km = 100km -60km(Electric only) =40km @1.6 Litres of fuel = 2.5 x 1.6

    = 4Litres/100km or 68MPG Imp, 55MPG US – Now that’s impressive…

    Hopefully they’re not using funny figures like that 230MPG nonsense.


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    Red HHR

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (8:47 pm)

    Tagamet: I’ve been known to cause dyspepsia. (lol)

    Had to look that one up, guess I have been lucky. I would rather take apart multiple carburetors with small orifices and clean the “wax” out because it has sat to long without being run…

    Interesting story today, GM is going to get it right!


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:17 pm)

    prowler: Why “wait” for an all electric car when the Volt IS an all-electric car up to it’s AER (40 miles as the EPA rates it). If I NEVER need to go more than 20 miles per day (actually, Mrs. prowler) WHY DO I NEED ANYTHING ELSE?  

    Just put some gas in it, OK?


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:35 pm)

    Redeye: prowler: Why “wait” for an all electric car when the Volt IS an all-electric car up to it’s AER (40 miles as the EPA rates it). If I NEVER need to go more than 20 miles per day (actually, Mrs. prowler) WHY DO I NEED ANYTHING ELSE?

    Redeye: Just put some gas in it, OK?

    LOL, not THAT’S an elegant solution! Well done.
    Be well,
    Tagamet


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:36 pm)

    Red HHR: “Starting in May, 300 more pre-production or validation vehicles will be built on the full-scale Detroit Hamtramck assembly line. These will be used for testing by engineers, consumers, and the media.”

    This actually worries me. I am SURE that I read several places where the assembly line was to start in March. I wonder if it will be run in March and April, but still in preproduction mode and then in May the cars will be considered suitable for customers. It might be worth searching the archives for past postings on this. Also, for normal cars, the model year changeover hiatus is usually in June I believe. So technically Volts that are made after June will be 2011. I would like to think that even if the line at Hamtramck is running slowly up until Dec 1, that it would be ready for high volume production by Dec. And I would think that by Dec. 1, even running at slow speed they would have built about 8000-10000. But what do I know? I DID correspond with a GM rep by email to try to arrange for plant tours and my response was, yes we are thinking about plant tours, but it is still too early, check back with us in May.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:37 pm)

    Blind Guy: #99 Prowler “battery realities”Well I like to learn new things and I wasn’t aware of the members list until I investigated more after your reply to me.I might be registered now I think.It may take me some time to learn how to navigate that portion of this site.Gotta cook dinner for my wife and I for now.  

    sent you a private Email. let me know if you don’t get it (either here or PM me)


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (9:45 pm)

    Dave K.:
    Video clips regarding the Volt shine a bit on light on this. The ICE is not used at all until the T battery drains to customer depletion (the CD point). Initial battery range has been described as 32 to 40+ miles per house wall charge. When the Volt is in CS (ICE) mode. The ICE provides electricity directly to the electric motor. This measure has been described as “just enough”. No extra ICE energy is directed to the battery at all. The brake regen always flows directly to the battery as recharge. And never directly to the electric motor.The only time the ICE and battery work together is after the battery has been drained to CD point. And this is only under the heaviest of demands or work loads. Such as being to the floor on a steep hill climb. Each climb is followed with brake regen. Especially when operating with the shift lever in L (strongest regen). Which prepares the T battery for another hill climb assist if needed.=D-Volt  

    You’re interpreting the source material pretty much the same way that I am. I’m don’t know where all the discussion and theories come from, such as “there’s a transmission that allows the ICE to run in parallel mode when needed”. LOTS of assumptions and theories made on this Board. What I’m trying to find out is if there’s a definitive source from GM that says pretty much what you (we) are saying: THE ONLY TIME THAT THE ICE RUNS DURING THE AER MODE IS ONCE EVERY 60 DAYS FOR 10 MINUTES. ***ARE THERE ANY OTHER EXCEPTIONS???***


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:04 pm)

    I’ve seen several people mention PM, private email or private message, today. I’ve not heard this discussed here before. Can anyone enlighten me on the process to send a PM to someone else on this blog?


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:06 pm)

    Michael: I’ve seen several people mention PM, private email or private message, today.I’ve not heard this discussed here before.Can anyone enlighten me on the process to send a PM to someone else on this blog?  

    You used to be able to click on their name in any of their posts and go into their profile and pick “Private Message” or “Private Email”. The only way I can get it to work now is to click on “Forum” at the top, go into “Member List”, type the name into the search, click on the result and then pick “Private Message”.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:23 pm)

    Tagamet: I’m afraid I have to disagree with you on this one. Just think of all the potential law suits for whiplash, when the kids tramp down on the pedal and that instant torque kicks in! Granted, the kids would be SMILING a lot (lol)Be well,Tagamet  (Quote)

    Heh. If they have the instant torque of your average bumper car… no problemo…


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    Michael

     

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    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:36 pm)

    prowler:
    You used to be able to click on their name in any of their posts and go into their profile and pick “Private Message” or “Private Email”. The only way I can get it to work now is to click on “Forum” at the top, go into “Member List”, type the name into the search, click on the result and then pick “Private Message”.  

    Prowler thanks. I just found that route. Now, I have a new problem, I’m a victim of identity
    confusion. I’ve been posting comments here for a long time using just “Michael.” It turns out when I registered for the forum, I chose a user name of “Sojourner,” but never used it here. I probably can’t change that, and would only confuse the issue here. I guess we can cross that bridge if private messaging gets more important. Again thanks for the reply.


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    Feb 18th, 2010 (10:50 pm)

    Volt45:
    Heh.If they have the instant torque of your average bumper car… no problemo…  

    Uncontested. You *do* know that I was joshing, right? Actually, Disney should have an “amusement” for adults with Volts and BEVs! Eventually, they’d be relegated to an older section of the park like “Frontier World” or something reflecting the major turning points in history.

    Be well,
    Tagamet


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    Mike-o-Matic

     

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    Feb 19th, 2010 (12:31 am)

    Michael: I’ve been posting comments here for a long time using just “Michael.” It turns out when I registered for the forum, I chose a user name of “Sojourner,” but never used it here.

    I’ve got the same problem, Michael. I’m “Mike-o-Matic” here but “omaticman” on the forum. Too bad they’re not 100% integrated.

    Regards,
    The Other Mike


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    Feb 19th, 2010 (12:51 am)

    Prowler
    Thanks for the info. It may take me a while to figure out how to use some of the features available in the forum. For now I will stick to conversing here. Thx. again


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    ProfessorGordon

     

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    Feb 19th, 2010 (1:25 am)

    Tagamet:
    Regarding my “handle”, originally, way back when computer programs came on magnetic tape and smoke signals were far faster than email, the only place to actually interact with people in “molassified” real-time, there were chat rooms. Given my irrepressible (often embarrassing) sense of humor, I chose “shrinkwrap” as my handle. I’m a shrink and we were rapping – get it? (g)Before too long I found many downsides to having people I don’t know, aware almost immediately that I was a shrink. I’ll skip over the many anecdotes. About that time a prescription medication came out called “Tagamet”. It was also about that time that I really enjoyed online fantasy role playing games. Since the medication was expensive and prescription only, very few people had heard of it. To me, it had a kind of medieval Knights of old “ring” to it, so I er, stole it. The fact that it’s a medication for stomach distress fit my vocation pretty well too (g).
    Sorry for the very long-winded reply, but Hey, I’m a shrink, and sometimes I even get stuck on “Hi”.
    Be well,
    Tagamet  

    Thanks for explaining your tag, Tag. I have often wondered.

    …and if you read this, you’re up too late! :)


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    Feb 19th, 2010 (2:09 am)

    hi prowler #132 …

    prowler: I’m don’t know where all the discussion and theories come from, such as “there’s a transmission that allows the ICE to run in parallel mode when needed”. LOTS of assumptions and theories

    I know some of the “engine drives the wheels” comments are from sharp shooting trolls. It’s really not a big deal. Once people demo Volt technology. Getting back into a spark to gas to differential to wheels vehicle will seem stone age.

    =D-Volt

    BTW: I appreciate the thoughts, ideas, and effort being displayed by the regulars and visitors to gm volt dot com. A great bunch of people. Battery powered daily drivers in our garages. The high power charge cord may be optional. The EREV smile is not.


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    Feb 19th, 2010 (2:48 am)

    Brian: I hate to rain on anybodies parade but, State and local governments are not going to make it easy for you to buy this car.We are all ready seeing this in an article from the NYtimes about fees and inspections for installations of recharge hardware in homes and businesses.They want to track record and tax your eletrical useage.They are not going to give up there oil revenue.If they are not careful they will kill the electric car market.  

    You can’t DIY electrical in NY, can you?

    If they try it here, I’m registering a Hebby Dolt…. and my extra power use is for my grow lamps…


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    Feb 19th, 2010 (2:54 am)

    Todd: I’m still perplexed by this idea of gas going stale. .  

    Do you live where winters are really cold? Cold slows the degradation. Around here gasoline is noticeably “bad” after 3 months. Mandatory E10 only makes it worse.

    Gas goes bad for two reasons:

    Oxidation: If air can get in, then the oxygen combines with components in the fuel. This reduces the volatility and forms varnishes that gums up fuel systems. Oxidation makes a major hit on octane rating.

    Volatile loss: Lighter components evaporate away making cold starts hard.

    If the fuel is stored in tight metal containers neither happens. I wish all cars had shifted to airtight fuel systems with quick connect fuel inlets. There is no technical reason not to, and environmental, safety and longevity benefits if they did.


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    Feb 19th, 2010 (3:04 am)

    Herm:
    Some later generations of the Volt may even use a dealer replaced canister of LPG to fuel the genset.. for those people that never exceed the AER.  

    Hey, that’s a really good idea. LPG never goes stale. A LPG version of the Volt would be perfect for people who only rarely use the engine.


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    Feb 19th, 2010 (11:07 am)

    Well duh! This is no different than any gas tank made since 1998 when OBD 2 went into effect. Loss of fuel from the tank eats into gas mileage since MPG is miles traveled /fuel put in, not the fuel stuffed through the carburetor/injectors.

    That was one of the things checked at my last emissions test. While the car in front of me was being dynoed, the attendant had my gas cap hooked to a tester to see if it leaked. OBD 2 cars’ fuel tanks have a charcoal filter hooked to the vent. I captures the fuel vapors. The next time the car is run air is sucked through the canister to drive the vapors into the throttle body. If you leave your gas cap off and drive around you will get a service engine light.

    Why can’t GM build a real EV with and 80 or more mile range? With that you would not need a engine or fuel tank in your dailt driver.


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    Feb 19th, 2010 (12:20 pm)

    Volt45: I always thought it would be cool if Disney rebuilt its Autopia in “Futureland,” with its smelly stinky lawn-mower engine cars, with little Volts and maybe Leafs, Focuses, too. My daughters love those stupid little cars! I thought GM would have the most to gain from that kind of cross promotion (and Disney, too).  (Quote)

    Tagamet: I’m afraid I have to disagree with you on this one. Just think of all the potential law suits for whiplash, when the kids tramp down on the pedal and that instant torque kicks in! Granted, the kids would be SMILING a lot (lol)Be well,Tagamet  (Quote)

    Volt45: Heh. If they have the instant torque of your average bumper car… no problemo…  (Quote)

    What you both are looking for is Pole Position Raceway, 5 locations, or another indoor electric karting venue:

    http://www.polepositionraceway.com/

    These are NOT bumper cars and ARE performance carts. Volt45, make sure you kids wear full safety gear, are big and tough enough, and have professional race training before you put them in these.

    GM could do an mini EV RacerRama, since electric vehicles are NO LONGER the vehicle of the future, but rather the vehicle of the present. In that case, I’d suggest Warner Brothers for the cross marketing a la Speed Racer. DO NOT PUT IT IN TOONTOWN.


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    Feb 19th, 2010 (12:33 pm)

    nasaman: This is one more reason I continue to believe GM would be wise to divide the tank into 2 parts, with the smaller part (say 4 gals) being the main tank & the larger part (say 8 gals) being the “spare” tank* —which except for extended travel would remain empty. The spare tank could then be opened & filled for long trips by a dash-mounted solenoid. Benefits… 1) fresher gas (4 gal tank); 2) >600mi range (12 gal total).

    * Remember, even the cheap original VW Beetle had a spare tank — it’s easy/cheap to do!

    Herm: Some later generations of the Volt may even use a dealer replaced canister of LPG to fuel the genset.. for those people that never exceed the AER.

    Matthew B: Hey, that’s a really good idea. LPG never goes stale. A LPG version of the Volt would be perfect for people who only rarely use the engine.

    Sorry for the late response, but I was having trouble posting, yesterday.

    This might actually be the one reason why we should have two gas tanks; one easily filled at the gas pump for normal extended-range driving, and a reserve cylinder of propane or CNG re-filled at the dealer as a time-unlimited ‘emergency reserve.’


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    Feb 19th, 2010 (1:49 pm)

    EVO: What you both are looking for is Pole Position Raceway, 5 locations, or another indoor electric karting venue:http://www.polepositionraceway.com/These are NOT bumper cars and ARE performance carts. Volt45, make sure you kids wear full safety gear, are big and tough enough, and have professional race training before you put them in these.GM could do an mini EV RacerRama, since electric vehicles are NO LONGER the vehicle of the future, but rather the vehicle of the present. In that case, I’d suggest Warner Brothers for the cross marketing a la Speed Racer. DO NOT PUT IT IN TOONTOWN.  (Quote)

    Checked it out and it looks really fun! I grew up in Corona, CA.
    Thanks for the tip!


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    Feb 20th, 2010 (2:27 am)

    Jackson:
    Sorry for the late response, but I was having trouble posting, yesterday.This might actually be the one reason why we should have two gas tanks; one easily filled at the gas pump for normal extended-range driving, and a reserve cylinder of propane or CNG re-filled at the dealer as a time-unlimited ‘emergency reserve.’  

    I think PRICE is major factor for ICE. The solution shall be as cheep as possible. Propane and spare tanks could add some extra cost.


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    Feb 20th, 2010 (2:39 am)

    Todd:
    Simple, just like an ICE has an RPM range at which it is most efficent an electric motor does to. The car will get the most mileage out of the battery if driven between 45 and 50 miles per hour. This means if you drive 35mph all the way to work, you may not get a full 40 miles out of the battery, but if your commute is 45mph then you might get 43 miles out of the battery. The 45~50mph is the speed at which the motor and all the electroncis are most efficent. It does not mean that the ICE will come on at 55mph. The ICE will only come on when the system detects the batteries need assistance. This will be after 40 miles or possibly on hard hill climbs. My commute is 15 miles at speeds between 35 and 45. I expect I’ll easily be able to drive to and from work without using a drop of gasoline, except for when the ICE fires up for 10 minutes every other month.  

    There is different story with electric drive. The slower you drive the less power per mile you consume. But major power consumption for the city driving conditions comes from stops/starts and acceleration.


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    Feb 20th, 2010 (7:19 pm)

    GM is sure getting this one right.

    CHEVY VOLT: American-made, American-FUELED. Ready for one in this garage.


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    Engineer

     

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    Feb 21st, 2010 (2:43 pm)

    OH I am so giddy about this car now, its coming out soon and its gonna be awesome!