Cadillac Converj
Aside from the Chevy Volt which it could be argued isn’t a hybrid, GM has not released any public plans to produce a strong hybrid sedan.
At present the company produces 2-mode hybrid trucks including the Tahoe, Escalade, and Sierra models. These vehicles have a 25% higher fuel efficiency than their non hybrid counterparts, yet their $10,000 price premiums have resulted in very limited sales.
GM recently announced they were investing in their own dedicated electric motor assembly plant, which would produce the motors for the next generation of 2 mode hybrids.
Vice Chairman Tom Stephens told Automotive News that the next generation would be the first to appear in rear wheel drive sedans.
Though Stephens did not say which models weer slated to get the powertrain, he did say they would utilize a new GM designed electric motor that;s 25% smaller and 20% more powerful than the ones curently found in the 2-mode trucks.
“The new motor will be lighter,” said Stephens. “It will be more affordable.”
These attributes he said would make it better-suited for a sedan.
Automotive analyst named Jim Hall concluded the vehicle most likely to get the new hybrid drivetrain will be the next generation Cadillac CTS and the new upcoming smaller Cadillac ATS .
The ATS is expected to go on sale in 2011, and the next generation CTS is scheduled for 2012.
The new compact and affordable hybrid powertrains won’t appear until 2013.
GM has not yet released images of the ATS which will be about theh same size as a Honda Accord, and share styling cues with the Voltec-powered Converj.
“We’re finalizing the four-door showcar of the ATS first,” a source told Edmunds Inside Line. “Then we’ll follow quickly after with a wagon, a coupe and a convertible.”
Source (Automotive News)
This entry was posted on Wednesday, February 10th, 2010 at 8:01 am and is filed under Cadillac, Hybrid. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+11
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:08 am)Smaller engine + more power, soon every car will look outdated if there is not some electicity pushing the wheels.
Can’t wait to see it…
NPNS
+7
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:09 am)“We’re finalizing the four-door showcar of the ATS first,”
Hope the Cadillac ATS is what GM is publicly showing while quietly working on the Voltec Orlando.
=D~
+8
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:13 am)These new cars all sound like they will be very attractive.
The only little blemish in these announcements is that it seems that gm is doing a little bit of everything now, all over the place, when it comes to drive trains. I hope they still have time, and maybe even more importantly the corporate focus, to do each one of them well.
In the past it has sometimes seemed like the limitations or flaws in anything were explained with the response that it was so but then there was the something else. One hopes that was the old gm, and the new gm of the future will be different. With that hope, for today I’m going to be an optimist.
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:14 am)Off topic, but of interest to faithful readers of this blog:
Check out the interview with GM’s Pete Savagian, director of the electric motors.
http://autos.aol.com/article/gm-electric-strategy
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:14 am)I concur.
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:41 am)May be its a nicer idea to have a GMC graphite (tall roof ) urban cross over counter part with a hybrid powertrain than having another sedan. They can use the principles of “mercedes bionic car” to make it a aerodynamic cadiallac and use 2 mode power train.
That will be pushing the envelope than having another sedan. The problem with GM designers are they never push the envelope to an extend it has utility also. They mostly value only the visual aesthetics and not the usefullness
NB:mercedes bionic car was boxy and still had a Cd of .19 ( same as EV1 ).
+7
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:45 am)It is good to hear that GM will be designing and producing their own electric motors.
+9
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:53 am)I am going to make a prediction that in a few years, all of GM’s 2-modes will be plugins.
The 2-mode is mostly a benefit for city driving, with only slight improvements seen in hwy mpg. Still, the composite mpg increases by about 25%.
However, since the 2-mode is somewhat expensive, the cost-to-reward ratio may not be great enough to justify just a 2-mode hybrid.
Now let’s look at a plugin 2-mode. GM is already purchasing batteries from LG Chem, and the pack for the plugin Vue was essentially a 1/2 sized Volt pack using the same cells. This increases volume for many of the parts found in the GM battery packs, thus the price for the packs gets more reasonable.
However, the mileage rating for plugin 2-mode will likely be about twice that of a non-hybrid offering (versus a 25% increase for the 2-mode hybrid).
Let’s look at the Chevy Tahoe 4WD. Its rated 15/21 or 17 mpg with the standard V8 engine. The hybrid version is rated 21/22 or 21 mpg composite. As stated, this is about a 25% increase in fuel economy.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
Now let’s examine a plugin with an 8 kWh (4 kWh usable) battery pack. Assuming only 3.5 miles per kWh, the 4 kWh provides 14 miles of blended electric range. For driving 40 miles per day on average, this equates to 26 miles under gasoline power, at 21 mpg, or 1.24 gallons. This equates to 32 mpg, or almost twice that of the non-hybrid version.
So if you are going to spend the money for 2-mode, only to get a 25% increase in mpg, it would make sense to spend a little more to get double your mpg.
I think there is even more potential for the plugin, as Li-Ion is more efficient, the bigger battery can capture more regen energy, and the larger battery will provide more energy to the motors, so all electric operational range will increase. See this link for more on GM’s battery packs.
http://archives.media.gm.com/volt/eflex/docs/battery_102.pdf
Note that the 2-mode’s NiMH battery can only supply 35 kW, with a storage capacity of 2.1 kWh, while the plugin can supply 55 kW, with a usable capacity of 4 kWh.
So I see GM’s future hybrid offerings to be the BAS+ hybrid for small cars, plugin 2-modes for larger vehicles, and Voltec.
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:58 am)It is not the 2 mode system and the price associated with it that is a failure, rather it is the marketing behind it that is failing. I’ve wrote of this before but the problem I see is that once you decide you want a two mode you have very little choices left. Rather than it being an option itself it is more like a separate model with very limited option choices. Go to Chevrolet’s web site and use their build your own function and you will see what I mean. You get to pick a color and little else after picking the hybrid. Even still if they made it in the Suburban there would be one in my garage right now to replace my 03 Suburban but I am not going to downsize to a Tahoe so I wait…
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:08 am)I don’t know why GM ‘wastes’ money on 2 mode and other new product developements. I think they should concentrate on voltec and BEV platforms for all new non commercial vehicles.
Expand their current technological headstart and control the market.
They are just afraid gas will stay under $3 a gallon. Lets see where gas prices go when Israel attacks Iran any, perhaps any day now.
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:13 am)As always, Americans get lulled to sleep when nothing bad has happened for a long time. Its been 9 years since 9/11 attacks. The 2008 Oil price surge was not a result of some single event, but just from overheated economies, and the world economy still hasn’t recovered.
Being complacement just because nothing bad has happened for 9 years isn’t too smart.
There are so many things that could drive gas prices up overnight as well as in the long run.
I just don’t see how the 2-mode hybrids or any hybrids make any sense. If you are going to pay extra for that, you might as well pay extra for EREV.
+3
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:34 am)What you seem concerned about is exactly what was lacking with the old GM. To be a leader and beat the competition, GM has to do a lot of everything.
+3
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:47 am)I am sold. If they build it I will buy it. In an Avalanche please!
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:48 am)Are there two “tom w” ‘s or do you just normally reply to yourself?
(just curios)
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:49 am)“GM has not yet released images of the ATS which will be about theh same size as a Honda Accord, and share styling cues with the Voltec-powered Converj.”
Anything that looks like the Converj is a + in my book.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:59 am)Great way to start the day – reading the posts and seeing someone *choose* to be an optimist at post #3 and a concurrence at #5!
THANKS.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:00 am)As poorly as GM’s current large 2-mode hybrids have sold in the marketplace, they have the potential to save the driver more money on gas than if the same powertain was put into a small car. It would be disappointing if the next generation 2-mode system will go mostly into smaller vehicles. When it comes to saving gas, I guess it’s more customer perception than reality.
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/07/23/greenlings-where-are-the-most-important-mpg-increases-at-the-u/
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:15 am)It’s the old “This is my brother Darryl and this is my *other* brother Darryl” bit. Anyway, tom w has replied to himself before. I think he’s just passionate.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:17 am)Still supporting “me too” and “look like” same category vehicles ?
I too rendered a 2011 Colorado based on equinox but its not same category vehicle ( one is CUV and other is a light truck ).
don’t know why image didn’t show up : http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qPgANC-uO8U/S3D4QlEg5VI/AAAAAAAAAHw/vpuHZ0hQs5E/s1600-h/2011_chevrolet_colorado.JPG
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:17 am)+1 Amen to that! Beautiful car.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:18 am)Tom w…
There is no conspiracy, you are right of course 2-mode is a transitional technology.
Here is the basic issue, currently automotive electric drive motors are expensive. To have one powerful enough to tow a camper or commercial trailer is REALLY expensive. The 2-mode system is a decent compromise, it can run full EV for short distances but you still have the V8 to tow/haul the loads at (although still too expensive) an achievable price.
Yes, as our focused friend EVO will likely point out those huge mining haul trucks are full electric drive, (the largest trucks in the world) they are also many million dollars each.
I don’t have that sort of coin… do you?
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:19 am)Absolutely.
+1
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:21 am)A standard non plug Hybrid is old news, very old. Market has already been saturated and GM’s last attempts show that their hybrids sales sucked. This just sounds like a desperate attempt to catchup in the now old market. Why even try? The market will be hit with small BEV’s and GM is coming out with a small hybrid, and on a caddy to boot!?!?!? Makes no sense. Spend money to lose money in this? IMHO waste of money.
-2
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:23 am)IMHO, the consumer that wants a hybrid is looking to save money and doesn’t have big money to spend on any caddy hybrid. Just the caddy nameplate screams overpriced.
WTF are they thinking?
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:25 am)One word…
Lexus.
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:28 am)Gm has to invest in different technologies if they want to compete. Hopefully, there will be synergies between this and Voltech.
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:34 am)Tag — Indeed you have taught us well
+3
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:38 am)Indeed so. And, gm needs to be the best (or at least close to the best) in each one of them.
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:39 am)I’ve also done this before, and so has Statik. I take his cue and start with “me” when “replying” to myself. I do this when I think of one more thing right after the “Edit” button disappears.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:44 am)off topic but interesting…
DIY electric car platform.
http://www.trexa.com/
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:54 am)I’d like anything fuel efficient that looked like the Converj. (stick a hampster wheel in it, it still looks good).
I’d also like to see a Voltec version of the Cadillac CTS Coupe
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:54 am)I’ve also done it occasionally. Mainly to correct or clarify a previous post.
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:57 am)I suspect everyone except GM and a few people here refer to the Volt as a hybrid. So there isn’t a “direct connection” between the gasoline motor and drivetrain, so what. The gasoline engine is still providing the power to make the thing move after the battery runs out.
I’m reminded of my sister having to proofread GM’s brochures and PR stuff in the 90′s, working for a small printing company. She had to ignore GM’s use of “employes” [sic] instead of “employees”. They thought it would be special to spell that word differently. Maybe they still do. Drove my sister nuts as a proofreader though.
I also cannot get interested in Cadillacs. I can only think of the huge floaty boats my aunt drove in the ’70s and ’80s. Sorry.
+4
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:58 am)Neither have I.
+5
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:00 am)Where I work they layed everyone off so I am used to talking to myself.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:02 am)Weren’t most standard cars kind of like boats in the 70′s & 80′s? (yes, i know there are plenty of exceptions)
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:03 am)Edit button doesn’t show up for me, so I don’t know if because needs newer version of browser or what?
So only way to edit or add on is a second post.
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:15 am)I am a little bit confused and would not mind some explanation.
Seems like the “2-mode” vehicles are all fairly expensive and not so popular.
1) Does the 2-mode roughly compare to the drive arrangement of the Prius (only more heavy duty)?
2) The 2-mode transmission seems to have 2 electric motors buried inside the transmission. Are these two motors the electric traction motors in such vehicles or are they simply a CVT?
3) The plant that is to build electric motors seems to be set to manufacture only the electric motors for the 2-mode, not for the Volt?
Some elaboration would be appreciated.
LJGTVWOTR – NMST
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:16 am)What browser do you use? I find that it can be spotty with Internet Explorer.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:17 am)Off topic:
I know this is off topic but we just went past the 4 FOOT mark of snow in our yard from the last two storms, and its still going strong. This is insane….off to shovel….again.
+4
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:17 am)Ya, I know what you mean… I just can’t get interested in those cheap Toyota’s Honda’s or Nissan’s… their bodywork was as thin as paper in the 70′s… total rust buckets…
Oh… what?? Things can change over time??? Say it isn’t so!
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:21 am)“Little steps, for little feet” (lol). I haven’t been the best model the last couple of days, but others have definitely taken up the slack. Reminds me a little of the Borg Collective – Resistance is futile!
Thanks,
Be well,
Tagamet
/prepare for the forces of Darkness to redouble their efforts!
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:25 am)1) yes.
2) The 2-mode trans is (as I understand) a fairly normal 4 speed auto trans with two electric drive motors integrated into it. Using an already tow rated transmission makes a lot of sense to me for truck use.
3) This one is a little vague, but it appears that the longer term vision is to do most drive motor manufacturing will be in-house.
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:27 am)That was our December here… keep your back straight!
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:30 am)#2
Amen. +1
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:32 am)I was just replying to someones question and have no problem with it. Sorry if it came off as being critical.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:35 am)Haha, I know.
But I just see that Cadillac grille and start having childhood flashbacks.
As for big boats in the 70′s and 80′s, no — I drove VW Beetles!
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:36 am)Looks like today’s “cubit” theme for the day. (g)
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:37 am)I agree with you but there is one thing that needs to be known to all. BillR has a writeup on how the “New Transmission” Power split thingy works AND it shows that the ICE will (at least from what I understand) drive the vehicle. THAT is why the Volt will have at least 4 clutches that I know of in the tranny.
Does anyone have the link to BillR’s great write up?
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:40 am)/has to take sweater off here in CA and roll windows down in the car. Kicks back in the sun drinkin Kahlua & Coffee…..
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:40 am)You’re right. Firefox works much better for me (here).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:41 am)Carcus1 has already been all over that one. That’s his “wet dream car”.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:42 am)#24
Sorry guys, but I have to largely agree. I guess he just described me, LOL. +1 I have zero interest in a Cadillac.
#25
I dunno, but my sense of it here in SoCal is that they don’t sell very many. Greenwashing on the part of both Lexus and the buyers, IMHO.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:43 am)It is becoming more and more evident that most of us will be waiting for a Volt until the 2013 model year. The GM official alluding the the Volt as a “halo” car – a draw into showrooms to buy Cruzes and ’12 Impalas built upon the Cruze platform.
It’s not about reading tea leaves any longer. GM and Bob Lutz have been very plain about this “dribble the Volt out over two years” approach. My Grandma (bless her heart) used to always tell me that ACTIONS speak much louder than WORDS. We can see the U.S. Auto industry is piddling along, nearly being dragged into electrification. Ford has stuck it’s finger in the pie with a non-plug in version of Toyota’s system, but has not been shy that their strategy to comply with 2016 C.A.F.E. standards is smaller vehicles range-wide powered by four cylinder turbocharged engines with direct ignition. Chrysler just can’t plain afford to electrify unless the market surely shows a strong trend towards demanding such. GM, our great hope, is now showing it’s hand rather strongly with it’s announcements of late and this tentative-at-best “rollout” of the Volt, which will look more like a dog and pony show than anything else. Expect fast talking young sales staff steering you towards that Cruze or smaller-platformed, direct injected, aluminum blocked, turbocharged ICE powered 19th century beast parked elsewhere on the lot.
It’s fun to dream. And Lyle, I think that is mainly what this website is all about. It gives us starry-eyed optimists a chance to dream and be teased and teased until we’ll all just go out and buy that plug-in Prius (after they download good stoppage software and make ‘em with headlights you don’t have to remove the ENTIRE FRONT OF THE CAR and/or dish out $1200 to replace just after your warranty has expired.
This whole dream is rather sad though – because more and more it smells of GM’s engenious way to garner more stimulus money. After all, we have to keep those United Auto Workers busy at those battery and electric motor plants, don’t we?
GM has the Voltec technology. Why on Earth should they dance ( hopefully not the Volt dance! ) around and around announcing this hybrid strategy and that? We know, and fully understand the sheer cost and total investment it’s taken to get the Voltec platform ready for prime-time. We know and understand ( Watch Jay Leno’s test drive on level roads with optimum weather ) that few will see 40 miles in EV mode – and we’ll even bow our heads and be happy with 25 EV miles with no A/C or radio playing…. We’re willing to BELIEVE.
Here’s the Leno link – I picked this link because the one on jaylenosgarage.com cannot be fast fwd’d – this way you can ffwd to the part where he drives the car and you can spot the dash graphic and info in EV mode.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/jay-lenos-garage-chevy-volt.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/tag/chevy-volt&usg=__75z3MOlsh4GSmeI2P1pgUQeg_cs=&h=607&w=1075&sz=499&hl=en&start=19&itbs=1&tbnid=ApLwPiL7cAuhXM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DChevy%2BVolt%2Bmodel%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D18
GM, please allow me to ditch the Prius and BELIEVE in American innovation leadership in industry once again. GM help me to have faith that my country can get off of foreign oil dependency and built technology that leads the world other than weaponry.
Before you slam the messenger here, I want a Volt, BAD. I just am being the realist here, and as your voice of reason – am asking you all to pressure GM to do what is right.
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:44 am)#38
Good man! Hey Tag, you started another trend. Check it out. +1
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:47 am)Yeah but their very L8 in the game dude. Do they really want to play catchup in this arena? Do they even stand a chance? Cad’s almost always will cost more, I think….lol. Haven’t looked it up because being a broke azzed trailer park maggot there’s no reason too.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:48 am)Damn dude, my ADD kicked in on that one. Got Cliff’s Notes?
+3
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:51 am)#54
I dunno, that actually doesn’t sound so bad to me.
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:55 am)Amen! +1 AND +1.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:58 am)There are a lot of people who are willing to spend a considerable amount of money to reduce their carbon footprint, and/or make themselves less dependent on oil. Hence the Tesla roadster. Plus the whole trade in a BMW for a Prius phenomenon.
Therefore, why not Cadillac? They won’t have to sell in volume to make it profitable. That said, I think the Converj would probably sell better than the ATS.
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:59 am)Of course ALL empirical research shows that “optimists” are less realistic than “pessimists”. (Has to be some evolutionary reason for the other 50% of the population). LOL
Kidding aside, it’s best to be a pessimist before embarking on a significant endeavor and an optimist during and after you’re committed.
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:00 pm)2011 through 2015 and beyond will introduce some great cars from GM and others. I sure hope the economy is going strong by then, cuz it still sucks right now. Especially here in Calif.
+5
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:05 pm)Innovation takes time. GM has compressed the product cycle as it is to meet the November 2010 deadline. I don’t blame them for wanting to tread slowly. Look what happened to Toyota when they moved too fast and didn’t do enough testing. And GM doesn’t have generations of fanboys to fall back on.
And, yes, that means they’re going to want to sell other cars in the meantime. They have too if they want to stay in business.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:10 pm)With the largest proving grounds (Milford) of any mfr.. by far.. GM will be the ones who can test new technologies keeping the pains of new technolgy to a minimum… new technolgy is always a challenge but progress isn’t easy… and it’s great to see so much new technology… exciting times… and it may just spur our economy… if these products are anything like the EV1 I rented in LA in 2000… a lot of people are going to be pleasantly surprised!
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:12 pm)Noel Park @ 53
Until the CTS arrived I agreed with you.
I see LOTS of the Lexus hybrids running about here, I can’t talk to other places.
-2
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:15 pm)#54
I dunno, that actually doesn’t sound so bad to me.
Noel, you’re kidding right?
Basically GM, Ford and Chrysler are going ICE, direct-injected, turbocharged engines to meet 2016 C.A.F.E. standards. This whole Volt parade is just that. Read where GM is really spending the lion’s share of their money and it’s in Crossover SUVs and updates of it’s known brands on smaller platforms. As for me I WILL NOT BUY A CRUZE.
I’d hope the majority of folks here day-after-day want to get off imported oil – which leads to compromised national security and, of course, black lung. lol.
Last night I watched as Bill O’Reilly and John Stossel sat around bloviating how EVs only make the “greenie” feel better, but the coal-fired power plants will supplant any tailpipe emissions with coal’s.
We’ll have to endure a few more years of that drivel from people who think of themselves as educated. But wait until that shining day when my wind turbine and solar panels juice up my PHEV and I can go from A to B clean and mean.
+9
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:17 pm)Hi James,
Are you new here or are you revising history? I’d like to assume the former. Lyle saw a Concept Volt and started/maintained the effort to have it become a reality instead of going the way of most concept cars – nowhere. For years now, he and most of us here have done little else BUT “encourage” GM in their efforts to actually get the wheels on the road. That day is finally drawing near and *now* you voice concerns about GM’s actions? There is a very valid reason for a gradual rollout of this bleeding edge vehicle and it’s been discussed here at length. Most of us are not “happy” about waiting a day longer than we have to, but most of us understand and *don’t* want the Volt to suffer a fatal injury due to impatience.
Cutting to the chase: we ARE watching GM’s actions. We ARE continuing to cheer on their efforts (you’d say pressure them). The vast majority of the folks here (myself excluded) are very reasonable in their expectations.
If you see a need for “a voice of reason” or haven’t seen “actions” that validate the Volt efforts (notice the huge battery assembly plant?), then you just haven’t been paying attention. Welcome to the forum.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:20 pm)Only IF (how do you make it bigger?) the Cad Hybrid gets equal to or the same 50MPG as the Prius, maybe even 45MPG Otherwise, it’s a lost cause as a Hybrid. It’s already bad enough that the Volt will not get anywhere close to the 50MPG in CS mode but to then come out with a higher class hybrid and get even less? That’s asking for another BK if you ask me.
But whadoIknow. That’s JMHO
+4
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:26 pm)All things in life are done in steps.
Why is it that you cannot get it through your head that burning less gas is a good thing.
Is electric drive coming? YES!
Is it reasonable to think that they can convert the entire fleet at once? Not a chance.
These new efficient engines can be the range extenders in follow up Voltec generations.
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:28 pm)It’s gonna suck more in June…
http://www.modbee.com/local/story/1040842.html
Approx 486 jobs lost there and over 200 more up here where I am (govt), that I know of for June.
CA sucks right now bro.
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:30 pm)Fuel efficiency in regular cars is a very good thing. And it also helps us reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Batteries are expensive. And they have limitations. And the Volt is new technology. There’s no reason not to invest in alternatives that are cheaper right now. And that can, hopefully, apply to trucks as well as cars.
I want the Volt to succeed as much as you do. But, realistically, it’s not ready for mainstream adoption. And won’t be for another five years at the very earliest. Direct injected-turbocharged engines are ready for mainstream adoption right now.
Then don’t watch Fox news.
+3
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:32 pm)Ditto here. If sh|t get’s worse here it’s gonna have to be a Cruze as my next car and the Volt will just be my pipe dream.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:38 pm)No Tagamet, I’m not new. Been here observing from the onset.
I read this site every day. I think Lyle is a standup guy, a great nuerosurgeon and just plain cool as heck.
I just hear all the optimism, and although it’s contageous, I think we all need to listen to what GM is saying and more importantly see what it is doing.
GM even going there, naming the Volt a “halo car” is disturbing due to the fact that it suggests GM has no plans of a mass production Volt. Halo cars are Vipers and Shelby GT500KRs. In other words, high cost, low production lures into the showroom. I made a few offers to local dealers to get a GT500 Shelby Mustang only to watch the exhorbitant dealer gouging as they laughingly shouted “Supply and demand!”.
If 10-12,000 Volts can be shipped out in 2011 – I can’t see why 60-80,000 cannot to meet demand. There is no logic behind a slow rollout. It will create animosity and doubt in the market. Believe me, when a dealer laughs in your face as he dangles a Volt in front of you for $20,000 over invoice, it won’t creat warm fuzzies for GM. People will just go buy a Prius.
Another message that promotes is: “We’re just not sure this technology is ready to roll”. I’ve followed every test and every stage. If it isn’t ready for prime time, what sense does it make to dribble them out a few thousand at a time?!
It doesn’t.
The money GM has invested in retooling Hamtramck and building their battery facility are a mere drop in the proverbial bucket compared to what they are spending preparing the next gen SUV!
The thrust is towards more of the same – and the Voltec seems a mere pet project. Tout battery packs and electric motors, but dig down and build those Tahoes, right? Show me a two-mode Tahoe owner who gets over 17mpg and I’ll show you some great swampland in Louisiana. Do you REALLY get excited about a 22 mpg Tahoe?!
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:43 pm)I didn’t think you were being critical. I just gave my reason for replying to myself a a suggestion of why Tom W replied to himself. Turns out I was correct and I agree that Firefox works well.
Be well Tag. I appreciate you Man!
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:50 pm)HI CJS,
The MPG in CS mode won’t be tested until this spring. Just sayin.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:51 pm)I agree with this philosophy most of the time, but since I don’t know if I will ever get a Volt (pessimistic), I’ve decided to be totally optimistic on its performance and success. If I live long enough, and my 401k/IRA doesn’t totally tank again, I intend to use as much as $30k of it to buy a Volt (finance/tax credit for the rest).
+3
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:54 pm)Well said. +1.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:54 pm)The Lexus hybrids don’t get the same MPG as the Prius. And they still sell. When people look at a luxury car, they’re looking at a number of things. MPG matters. But so does performance, size, finish, interior, looks. Etc.
Feb 10th, 2010 (12:59 pm)THANKS! Appreciation really floats my boat! (g). You made my week.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (1:04 pm)I didn’t think you were being critical either.
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (1:16 pm)So I guess I’ll rule out “he’s new here”. If the optimism here is contagious, you need to get back in line for another dose! Maybe you’re “optimism-resistant”.
Re halo cars: The Prius has long been seen as a halo car. Hasn’t it been mass produced? Didn’t they roll it out in Japan first? Wasn’t it’s release here small at first? I know there was a 6 month waiting period. Seems like they did ok until recently….
Re the money GM has invested: Are you forgetting the Billion dollars in R&D for the Volt – or are you just ignoring it.
Someone has already replied well to the reasoning for the slow rollout (and if you’ve been here you’ve read it many times). GM only gets ONE SHOT with the Volt. When there are Ghosts in the machine (and there WILL be ghosts), they will need to be addressed promptly and with great customer service. That WILL be possible with a 10K limited rollout. 60,000 vehicles – not so much.
I don’t know anyone here who agrees with anyone else on every point. I guess our single point of agreement will be that Lyle is a great guy.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (1:17 pm)As to the idea that the slow roll-out will cause people to “just go and buy a Prius;” I do not think we have kicked it around recently. First, I expect folks looking at the Volt might go to other plug-ins but not strong hybrids. I agree with the NPNS (no plug no sale) mindset.
Now for the Prius PHV to actually be an option, several things must occur. The Volt’s slow roll-out seems scheduled over the 2011 model year (Nov 2010 to Nov 2011) with up to 60,000 being supplied for the 2012 model year “if there is demand.” Now the Prius PHV is not expected to be available until the 2012 model year, with a production estimate between 20,000 and 30,000.
Bottom line, I do not see the slow roll out as causing a loss of customers to strong hybrids, but in 2012, folks will have choices other than the Volt. So I think they should up their first year production target to 20,000, and establish a reputation before being challenged by the other big boys.
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (1:18 pm)Now THAT’S the spirit! (and exactly my plan too!)
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (1:19 pm)Hey Tag, Lyle should post a bet board ranging from 30MPG to 60MPG and have peeps bet on what they think the CS mode MPG will be.
5 Bucks a box and one box per person on their guess.
Sound like a good idea? Winner take all!
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (1:23 pm)Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the Lexus hybrid get ONE mpg better than the non-hybrid Lexus? AND it costs more AND YET people still buy it! I think that the actual “green” value of a Caddy with AER would be a huge selling point – and GM could make some money on them.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+4
Feb 10th, 2010 (1:25 pm)With the many automotive “software recalls” in the news lately I believe GM is doing the right thing for us by taking extra time rolling out the Volt.
To me optimizing the Volt’s driver and passenger safety is more important than rushing the production volumes.
This may have already been answered on another thread but does the Volt have any manual overrides or mechanical redundancy to brake, steer and stop the car in the event of a software glitch?
Feb 10th, 2010 (1:34 pm)Forgive me for being cynical on this, but Lexus owners I have encountered seem to get them as status symbols. (No offense to any Lexus owners reading this.) I guess that’s included in “looks.”
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (1:41 pm)There was a lot of entertainment value in the thread of replying to oneself. And Tag, make no mistake you are a real anchor for this site. A day without you would be a lost day.
Seems logical that Cadillac should do something with hybrids. The 2-mode aspect does seem to be a less spirited kind of product, but I don’t really claim to understand the luxury product line. The Converj though would be nice to see what they do with.
We have to remain patient though to see our beloved Volt.
Chins up everyone!
LJGTVWOTR – NMST
Feb 10th, 2010 (1:41 pm)Thanks, LauraM. I appreciate it (and really dislike my Edgy side)(g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (1:43 pm)Cool idea, but why did you stop the range at 60?? (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (2:01 pm)I think a lot of luxury cars are primarily status symbols. That doesn’t mean that GM shouldn’t take advantage of people’s willingness to spend on status symbols.
Toyota probably made a lot of money off those hybrid Lexuses. And with all the problems they’ve been having lately (I believe that at least one hybrid lexus was included in the recall) it gives GM an opening to do the same with Cadillac.
Feb 10th, 2010 (2:07 pm)Hey JohnK,
That’s awfully kind of you to say! I really enjoy the site and all of the folks here (though sometimes being a shrink helps)(lol). If I’m missing early in the day, I got called to work and will be on late. If I’m missing altogether for days at a time, assume I’m hospitalized, but will return. That’s just how it goes with us old folks – not a problem (g).
Thanks again!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (2:14 pm)Since they’re in the show-car stage now, it’ll be a while before this new Caddy hits the street (if ever). Most concepts are just that: concepts.
I’m from Missouri (really). Show me the beef.
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (2:17 pm)Very well said +1. I hope James reads it.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (2:24 pm)You have an Edgy side?
Seriously, you’re one of the most optimistic and considerate people I’ve ever met. On or offline. And you’re genuine about it, which is rare. You’re one of the reasons this site generally stays cordial even when we talk about certain hot button areas of disagreement.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (2:27 pm)The redundancy question was raised by nasaman quite a ways back – long before any of the current “issues”, but recently several people *have* asked whether the Volt will have an over-ride built in. If it’s been answered, I missed it. If it hasn’t been answered, it seems like something that Lyle could find out for us. The info is probably available on “the site that shall remain unnamed”, but I don’t go there.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (2:32 pm)Soooo true about concept cars. That’s why it’s so amazing that one man’s efforts – with a website for crying out loud – has made such a difference with the Volt.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (2:32 pm)Well, I’m the last person to defend Toyota. But they did come out with a “Lexus Prius” last year that gets 35 mpg city and 34 mpg highway. It’s not great. But I believe it’s a significant improvement on most luxury cars.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q2/2010_lexus_hs250h_hybrid-short_take_road_test
But, obviously, it’s no competition for the converj. If GM decides to make them.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (2:37 pm)So, what’s your opinion of the Nissan Altima Hybrid? It’s been out since 2007 and still is only available in 7 states. How much reputational harm has that done to Nissan?
As to the logic of a phased rollout, it makes plenty of sense when viewed from a resource standpoint. With a phased rollout, fewer dealer sales & service staff need to be trained before the car can be sold. Fewer spare parts are needed in regional depots. Local advertising is cheaper than national. It is less expensive for GM to do regional rollouts v. national/international. And of they will be selling all they can make then why should they spend more than necessary?
BTW I don’t live in an early rollout area so I have to wait just like most people.
-3
Feb 10th, 2010 (2:38 pm)Why! Just get the VOLT completed and out in the market. NO! EV1 tricks or is, the big oil industry still running production decisions at the “New GM”????
Don’t need NO Cadillac Hybrid, Yet! Just the VOLT thank you.
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (2:43 pm)A converj would blow the Lexus hybrids away. At least IMHO. The two mode–maybe, maybe not. But there’s enough margin in the Caddy’s to make it worth trying. With Toyota’s recent troubles, I think there’s a lot of room there for another manufacturer. On every front.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (2:53 pm)I opine that the 2012 (model year) Volt will roll out with the other 2012s (late summer 2011). The 2011 Volt is really a half-model-year roll out.
I also think the the entire ‘demand’ for Volt is air at this point. All we have is a bunch of guys (and one gal) saying there is a 51,000 unit demand. However, when the rubber hits the road at the dealership, I am thinking that this demand will not be there. GM knows this and is keeping production low to get some real numbers on their spreadsheets. On the other hand, they may be way off and have demand in the millions. There is no way to tell ahead of time since it is a unique item.
Remember that the first run (10,000 units) is 10x what Tesla has built in their entire life. There are no other electric drive cars available in the US to gauge demand.
The entire industry is moving from a ‘push’ model to a demand model. In previous years, they all pushed product out in way greater numbers than actual demand (thus the major losses when they had to subsidize the sales). The Fiat guy is right. Build them when they are sold, not, build them and they will come.
With modern build techniques, it is now possible to custom-build each car for the end owner. I think we will see more custom builds kind of like the way Dell builds computers. Check off the options you want online and pick up the product (or have it delivered) when it is ready a week or so later.
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:02 pm)There is no doubt that they are late to the game.
But does that mean they shouldn’t try?
There was a time when people would say That’s the Cadillac of ‘whatever’. They need to get that shine back, and to do that they need to cover the top end market with excellent product. The ATS needs to be perfect.
GM, production directive number one MUST be;
“Perfect is good enough, until we can do better.”
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:02 pm)Jeepers! I’m starting to sense a theme here!(lol). Seriously, the kind thoughts make my heart sing. It’s so much easier to be negative in almost any area, but especially on a forum where people are basically anonymous. Granted, the “regulars” each has a distinct persona, myself included. LauraM, for example, is also genuine, and intelligent, well-read, walks-the-walk, and passionate (which is well controlled). I can’t WAIT for VoltNation II to see the reaction when people find out that I’m really a rather large female truck driver, with 17 tatoos and no sense of humor. (just kidding!).
Actually, I have a really difficult time handling such high praise (for which I can obviously blame my mother – that’s what shrinks DO). Ahhh, humor is such a good tool to deal with sooo many situations! I see that I’m now rambling, so I’ll close with
thanks again !
Be well,
Tagamet
/this took >20 minutes to type. Such a struggle.
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+4
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:14 pm)Nice wording! And it needs to be applied to every flavor of GM vehicle – especially the Volt.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:14 pm)You are absolutely right.
Each and every Land Rover is built in the UK to a recipe.
The Defender line was the coolest thing!
I factory ordered my Subaru.
Obviously dealers make ‘bulk’ orders of the most common options, but factory orders have always been there.
I think that it likely to become the normal way to buy a car. The dealer ‘just’ has demo’s and you ‘order’ yours.
I bet that most people would ‘like’ to track the birth of their car. Just imagine a website where you could get pictures of your new Volt (or other model) under construction! Modern factories are clean places, a well run process would have no issues with ‘showing off’ for the customers!
CorvetteGuy (or other car dealer) am I way off on this?
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:15 pm)Because IMHO with the weight of the Volt (~3900lbs) that is close to “Over Unity” in the production of power for motion for the small L4.
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:15 pm)We’ve met. You describe yourself perfectly, my friend.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:22 pm)Well now you’re just getting rational on me. Just a little more Kahlua and you’ll agree with me (g). Besides, the small L4 won’t have the losses it would if it was powering a traditional vehicle. It’s generating JUICE for the efficient electric motor. JMO.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:22 pm)That’s kind of lame MPG for a hybrid. I wonder why it’s so much less than the 50MPG Pri? More Power maybe? I’m gonna attribute some of the loss to all the gadgetry crap they throw on these Hybrid cars.
Here’s some research they did on these “Forced Features” and look who comes out on top as the biggest hitter on trying to “Hide” cost with the features…
http://www.hybridcenter.org/hybrid-scorecard/
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:23 pm)Its interesting.
I commented on someone in yesterdays thread about “why Toyota is taking so much flack right now. I said its because they are #1 (2nd last post)
interstingly, the phenomenon of picking on the mighty T is so hard for american journalist to resist it even fills articles about Honda recalls.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35320665/ns/business-autos//
While a large artice, only the first 3 paragraphs relate to the Honda recall…EVERYTHING else is about Toyota’s woes.
great whites to blood. the media loves to topple the #1
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:27 pm)BUSTED! (pun intended). Thanks for remaining silent all this time (Your wife and child are still fine and will remain so, if you behave. They send their love).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
-1
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:36 pm)I doubt this will come to fruition but it would be interesting to see how these handle.
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:36 pm)+1 on that……lol
I guess it’s best to stay #2. I’ve always heard the saying, It’s hard to get to #1, it’s even more difficult to stay there.
I’ll stay in my trailer park thank you….
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:48 pm)OT: CNN is suggesting that the REAL problem with the accelerators has not been addressed yet. They suggest that it is the control electronics that is the real issue. Link: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/08/toyota.recalls/index.html?hpt=Sbin
They are pretty much down on Toyota. Sounds a lot like the media used to be about GM about 20 years ago.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:49 pm)I think it’s mostly about “performance” and size. Apparently, people have higher expectations for the luxury cars. Basically, there are more rich people willing to pay to be “green,” than are wiling to make other sacrifices.
On the other hand, it explains the whole trading in a BMW for a hybrid phenomenon. There just isn’t an expensive car out there that has as good mpg. The only environmentally friendly expensive car is the Tesla. And the Tesla roadster isn’t for everyone.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (3:51 pm)This is way cheaper than that Liebherr T282B mining dump truck, but it’ll take a while to get your camper to where you want. On the plus side, though, you can then put it up high in a tree, out of reach of the bears.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/05/toyota-diesel-electric-hybrid-forklift.php
Feb 10th, 2010 (4:04 pm)No, I’m not kidding. They will not be able to produce enough Volts to support a company the size of GM for several (many?) years. As LauraM and many others have pointed out over and over, they need a full range of products to stay in business. What you described sounded about an order of magnitude better than what they have on offer now. So we need it all including, but not limited to, the Volt. And Lord willing, the entire EREV range. Including the pickemup truck, Captain.
Feb 10th, 2010 (4:07 pm)#69
Thanks. +1
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (4:08 pm)Loboc #102, real demand for Volt?
Well, I suggest that everybody at least send an email to the closest few Chevy dealers near you asking about the Volt. If one out of 5 seems to know something about it or reply with anything specific then it might be worth a visit to that dealership and let them know about your interest. My nephew got on his dealer’s list for only $100. I am number 2 in line at the dealer not too far from where I live. I feel pretty good about that. If you are not in California, Mich, or DC it still might be worth it – at least at the email level. I really think there will be more good news on the roll-out. But still – hang on and keep your spirits up.
Feb 10th, 2010 (4:17 pm)All good suggestions! I was a little concerned at the end there that you were about to say “stay tuned”! (lol) Well done.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (4:21 pm)I chatted with a rep online and gave them my number to call me. Nobody called.
Feb 10th, 2010 (4:23 pm)#102
I totally agree. +1 Any I’m no child of the computer/internet age, LMAO.
In the 60s, people used to custom order cars all the time, and that’s when it was done with adding machines, Frieden calculators, paper order forms, the phone, and the U.S. Mail, LOL.
You checked the boxes you wanted, gave them a deposit, waited 6-8 weeks, and got exactly the car you wanted. I would be totally happy to do that today. Would it be easier with modern information technology? I assume so.
+2
Feb 10th, 2010 (4:31 pm)All of the talk about “why not produce more units” – it may be out of GM’s hands. This is a new car. The traction motor most likely is not a standard item. So the supplier may have difficulty cranking up the volume. Same for some of the electronic components. And the parts all have to come together. Orchestrating this for something entirely new is probably pretty tricky. And for quality to be under control the real problems may not show up until manufacturing speed hits high volume. I’m guessing that final assembly is probably the easiest part of the volume proposition. Ramping up parts from outside vendors could be quite a challenge (and testing them for being within specs).
Feb 10th, 2010 (4:37 pm)It was my third go around till I got a satisfactory response.
First time was exchange of emails.
Second time was visit to dealer – clueless
Third time – sent emails to 4 dealers (not the one previously contacted)
Then went to dealer that had exchanged emails (from last batch).
Feb 10th, 2010 (4:44 pm)I would not want to be responsible for giving you a bout of depression.
Feb 10th, 2010 (5:25 pm)Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Feb 10th, 2010 (5:36 pm)Won’t work for me either.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Feb 10th, 2010 (6:18 pm)Your idea is great but not exactly practical, especially in a down economy. I’m sure the cost to keep a factory open with capacity for 10,000 + units a year is VERY HIGH. Now, if REAL demand for the VOLT turns out be be small because everyone is out of work, then the ‘build-to-order’ model would be very costly to GM. [and we still believe they are losing money on each unit still.... right?]
If demand were incredibly HIGH in a strong economy, that plan makes more sense. But, in the long run, I think it will always make more sense for GM, or any brand, just to build as many as is possible and then just sell them to the dealers, and let them take the hit [read big losses] if the demand isn’t there.
The dealer can afford to sit on inventory longer than the manufacturer…. in my opinion.
Feb 10th, 2010 (6:47 pm)That’d be a heck of a fall after all the kind words today.
Thanks,
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (7:27 pm)I see your point but was looking at it from the other direction and not just for the Volt.
It would be pretty interesting to see the cost numbers.
/Statik?
Feb 10th, 2010 (7:47 pm)The topic of Volt unit “volume” keeps coming up over and over. GM will produce about 4000 per month starting November 2010. GM reps have mentioned this at least 5 or 6 times. The first 4000 could be sold right here in about 10 minutes via pre order.
There are two ways GM could make this low volume work for them. One is to raise the price by $8k to $10k per Volt. The other is to adapt lease only availability.
I am very interested in Volt ownership. But either of these events would quickly redirect my purchase elsewhere.
With the continued push toward multi-mode hybrid. Wonder what’s cooking in the planning room?
=D~
Feb 10th, 2010 (7:59 pm)Our car dealer had an adding machine, but you had to go to the city to see one of those calculators. Given that the new car’s cost was in the mid 4-digit range, the math wasn’t too tough though. I remember sitting very quietly and watching my dad buy a brand new Chevy. They even filled up the tank with gas. Later on, I remember grumbling when the cost of a gallon of gas broke through the 50 cent range. (talk about a bitter sweet smile…)
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:04 pm)Sitting here trying to tune my PC to see if I can get a red Volt into focus, then if I can get such a car into focus, I will zoom in to view the sticker. I will check MSRP and options. Will also check for dealer markup… Stay Tuned….
Cheers
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:08 pm)Here we go again. Where have we heard this before…?
Associated Press – 02/10/10 7:33 EST
WASHINGTON – The Obama administration on Wednesday slapped new sanctions on several affiliates of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps amid stepped-up efforts to get U.N. penalties against Tehran because of its nuclear and missile programs.
The Treasury Department said it was freezing the assets in U.S. jurisdictions of Revolutionary Guard Gen. Rostam Qasemi and four subsidiaries of a previously penalized construction firm that he runs over their alleged involvement in producing and spreading weapons of mass destruction.
____________________________
If something negative results from this issue. I wouldn’t be shocked (and awed).
=D~
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:15 pm)Argh. Attempting to be funny, or are you just bored?(very small “g”).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:16 pm)For me, MPG is king. If this thing gets better MPG than the Prius in my driveway, or the Volt that might be in my driveway in year or two, then it’s a win.
However, not all hybrid buyers are like me. Someone buys the Lexus 450h and their Lexus hybrid sedan. I’m not quite sure who, but somebody does.
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:29 pm)A little of both Tag,
I did find this on enclavefourm.net…
Red, no sticker though. Yesterday it was bait and switch.
Look at a Volt buy a Cruze. Today it is, bait and switch.
Look at a Volt buy a Caddy…
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:41 pm)“Oh yee of little faith”
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:48 pm)Oh well, I guess it is good to have a choice…
Do you rember the little Monkey that lived under the hood of the Volt?
Feb 10th, 2010 (8:52 pm)Oh Oh,
Forgot to include Monkey!
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:10 pm)hi Red HHR # 138 …
This isn’t bait and switch. The people involved in Volt production have continually mentioned the November 2010 date as the start of production. Recently two managers mentioned the possibility of getting the Volt production line started sooner. Can you blame them? If I were a manager at NGMCO. I would definitely be asking the floor bosses if we could pick it up a little.
It all will come down to price and availability. The wild cards being two. What will the competition offer in January of 2011? Or, if GM surprises us with a Dodgesque triple play of offerings.
If this is the case. Watch GMCO stock to move higher by at least 15% and to continue on to double in 12 months time.
It’s all right here. Which way to go?
=D~
BTW: You could move to India and buy a Cruze right now.
http://www.chevycruze.in/
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:11 pm)One of us needs to check their meds. and I honestly don’t know which. Maybe both? (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
/ Did we *see* this monkey?
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:14 pm)Well I guess it is time for my meds, I just needed a Volt fix.
The little Monkey was part of the ICE on an early Volt prototype…
The Volt HAS come a long way. I was just wonder if the Monkey survived?
Cheers
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:17 pm)Tag……. you win the cuppie doll prize for the most posts in the last week.
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:24 pm)Glad the tech is using stenographer’s tape and not the cheap stuff.
=D~
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:25 pm)Yup Dave,
I sure hope Lyle is right on the price, I do enjoy his chats with Ed! He sounds so very optimistic. Speaking of optimism, I want to climb aboard Tag’s train…
Cheers
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:30 pm)If he had used the cheap stuff that whole Volt concept thing would have fell apart.
Cheers
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:30 pm)Now just how does one find THAT out (seriously) – or were you just guessing? I didn’t *intentionally* go for quantity over quality, but sometimes that’s the way it turns out. The clinical term, BTW, is logorrhea. Fortunately it curable.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:33 pm)OK, now I’m genuinely concerned that I can *see* the monkey…. (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (9:59 pm)LOL, *another* convert??? There’s always room for more on the Opto-Train!
Is there a way to *save* today’s posts for my scrapbook? No need, I’m sure to remember it.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:07 pm)MRBob @ 43,
You should check out the interview FME III posted at #4.
Sounds like there is no doubt: GM is dead serious about electrifying its fleet.
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:10 pm)Thanks for that link, FME III .
Feb 10th, 2010 (10:24 pm)Did you notice that there are 115 comments following that article? An interesting read.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:10 pm)Wait…what are we talking about?
If we are talking about shots of your car, and the factory as it is being built…that is in no way going to happen. (so many reasons why) If you want to track it you’ll have to do it the old fashion way. These are some of the likely event codes that you as a customer can follow:
1000 Order On Hold at Dealership
1100 Order Placed at Dealership
1101 Order Entered into System
1102 Order Entered via Web
2000 Order Accepted
2001 Order Generated to Dealer
2005 Order Replaced with Prospec Order
2030 Order Edited
2050 Order Changed
2500 Order Preferenced (or “Picked Up” or “Imaged”)
3000 Order Accepted by Production Control
3100 Order Available to be Sequenced
3300 Order Scheduled for Production
3400 Order Broadcast (Internal Plant Order Produced)
3800 Vehicle Produced
4000 Vehicle Available to Ship
4104 Bailment Invoice Created
4B00 Bayed (“B”, not
4106 Bailment Released
4150 Vehicle Invoiced (Dealer Billed)
4200 Vehicle Shipped
4300 Intermediate Delivery
4V03 4V03 Estimated Delivery Date
4800 Rail Ramp Unload
5000 Vehicle at Dealer
6000 Vehicle Delivered to Customer
9000 Order Cancelled
Now if your handy/crafty, you can check these online, or pester your dealership…or better yet, just harass them directly at the toll free number (1-800-222-1020)…but thats all your going to get I’m afraid.
If we are talking about whether or not GM is going to build them on a need basis or rather go back to ‘push inventory’ and just pound them out as quickly as the can to make take a shot at cost effectiveness….that is very much ‘old GM.’
I’m sure Corvette Guy is more than used to this scenario, but I don’t see that happening too much anymore (at least not like it was), and it is likely not going to happen with the Volt. GM wants that magic 50 days inventory level, they aren’t going to want to see the Volt reported as a three digit number. (imo)
GM has accepted that losses on the Volt are very possible, I don’t see them pushing to overstock as a solution. We are likely going to see it re-badged/re-packaged to hell before that comes to pass anyway. Ampera, Converj, MPV-7/Buick ?, etc. (imo) We are only talking one small line at DHAM anyway, GM would probably be satisfied putting out 30K on a ongoing basis after the initial rush…we aren’t talking about 15K Cobalts, these vehicles are 40-70Kish.
Besides that 10K early number (which is actually more like 8k atm) is a internal control, thats what GM is attempting to produce…I don’t think they are concered with this run selling. I imagine the RP6 and (likely) single onsies for dealers will eat up the bulk of year 1. MY2 is where the ‘can we sell them’ (and for a profit) worries creep in.
I’m not sure if that was off on a tangent or not. /shrug
Sidenote: There is a thousand reasons why the ATS will not be out in 2011…I don’t know how that rumor got started (MT?), but it would be nice of GM to shoot it down.
ATS will ride on Alpha architecture, which (like CorvetteGuy was mentioning), GM would like to sell a bunch off this one line (and they will at some point), which is a problem to do in 2011 because:
A) it doesn’t exist (there is a deal with the UAW to put it in Lordstown I believe – the Alpha is based off the now defunct KAPPA (LDS anyway) and the Zeta (RWD global) – which I think would be a logistical nightmare to get to market in 2011
B) the volume on the Alpha line will come from also carrying the new CTS as well, which is still relatively young, but on a dying line (Sigma) that will be shuttered out when the Alpha CTS begins. The ATS will go up against the BMW 3-series, and a LWB version of the Alpha will underpin the new CTS, which moves up the scale/class to 5-series land. (Where the heck does the XTS go in this? I dunno. Already obsolete?)
C) The real volume compliment however comes from the next gen Camaro moving to the Alpha in 2014-ish. Camaro currently outsells the entire Cadillac family of cars by almost 2 to 1. The Zeta it currently rides on was envisioned as the underpinnings of a huge family of cars, and quite frankly it has turned out to be too expensive for the Camaro, and it has not benefitted from the advantages of scale as was intended…because there was none (and the Zeta is now considered too bulky/clumsy for a sportscar of the future).
D) CAFE – part of the reason for the Alpha program is to get the product in line as it ramps up to 2016…no worries for 2011
/winner longest post of the thread
Feb 10th, 2010 (11:52 pm)And most fact-filled! What’s an RP6?
Thanks.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****No More “Stay Tuned”!
Feb 11th, 2010 (12:21 am)Happens
thanks
Feb 11th, 2010 (12:24 am)I was thinking pragmatically to myself, sure, obviously. But then I realized that the photos could be done. Information like where it came from when and who were the folks getting the car built and to you would often be highly appreciated.
It’s like when your kids are born in hospitals, it gets a bit messy, but most dads wouldn’t trade the experience. Except the disclaimer for the birth of your Volt would be longer than your sale contract. For 99.9 percent of people it wouldn’t matter though. It’s that .1% and their lawyers that are the reason that it’s so unlikely to ever be done.
Feb 11th, 2010 (12:27 am)The Camaro is General Motors most profitable car line in North America. The Zeta platform is proven and very robust due to its design. Most Camaros sold are V8 models loaded, and the profits are more than GM every could dream of. They could sell 10K every month if they could build them, and turn a pretty penny on each. Some buyers want a big strong platform like Zeta that can take a lot of abuse.
Feb 11th, 2010 (6:32 am)Build more Voltec vehicles.
We need all cars to be this way.
Feb 11th, 2010 (8:56 am)Sorry about that…it was late/I was sleepy, way to much lingo in my post. RP6 are pre-orders before production begins
Feb 11th, 2010 (3:23 pm)#106
My son bought a Mini a couple of years ago, and they did just exactly that. Tracked it all the way from England. Pretty cool. +1