While the damage to Toyota’s reputation has certainly taken a hit of late due to the widely publicized problems with stuck accelerator pedals on many models, a case could have been made that it was insular event. At the time, it was fortunate for Toyota that the ‘image flagship,’ the Prius, was not involved in the recall. It would seem the other shoe has now dropped as well.
Several hundred drivers have filed complaints that they have experienced delays before the brakes fully activate in the Prius, or that the brakes sometimes became ‘confused’ in certain situations, leading to accidents.
The problems at the company have gotten to the point where Toyota President and professional hermit, Akio Toyoda (who is also the founder’s grandson) left his bunker and made a rare public appearance at a hastily called press conference Friday. Of interest, when Akio tookover the position at Toyota he promised to be the President “closest to the frontliness,” but instead has earned the nickname of “No-show Akio.”
Shockingly, he offer no apology and blamed the previous president and his management team for any and all problems, claiming that everything was perfectly fine now at the ‘new’ Toyota…and the public was just being ridiculous about the whole thing and should move on with it and start buying cars from them again.
Alright, none of that last paragraph is at all true. Mr. Toyoda did exactly what was expected of him; he apologized half a dozen times and promised to fix the problems plaguing the automaker and once regain the trust of the car buying public…while not actually offering anything of real substance.
“We are facing a crisis,” he said. “I offer my apologies for the worries. Many customers are wondering whether their cars are OK.” Mr. Toyoda then promised to strengthen the quality control, and announced a special committee would be formed to ensure Toyota’s return to former glory, and that it would be headed up by himself personally.
However, his rare televised news conference was not without incident. In Japan, it is customary for executives to bow at the start of such a conference, and also when giving a apology. Mr. Toyoda’s bow during the apology portion of the program was received by the local media as being half-hearted and ‘not deep enough’. /the horror
The Toyota president also failed to address the Prius situation directly, and offered no immediate solution or direction to current Prius owners, just that he “has ordered swift action.”
Officially, Toyota has stated that the situation has already been rectified at the factory. Apparently, they retooled the brake mechanism in January and also did a software update to ensure the problem is not a issue going forward. Which is great if you want to buy a new Prius I guess…but not so good if you already own one of the 270,000 odd copies on the road and have been zipping around on bad brakes the last few months (while Toyota has known about the problem) and are still looking for a fix. (The NHTSA has not yet weighed in on the repair procedure, and announced Thursday it was opening a official investigation)
These situations have lead to Toyota taking a lot of heat, both at home and in the US, for acting too slowly. There is also a growing perception that Toyota is only reacting to safety concerns after being taken to task by US and Japanese transportation authorities.
In the US, Toyota has taken blow after blow by the NHSTA Transportation Secretary Ray Lahood, who recently gave Toyota’s share price a 7% haircut by uttering the statement, “my advice is, if anybody owns one of these vehicles, stop driving it.” That statement was later ‘taken back’ by Mr. Lahood, but retractions are nothing like headlines…and the damage was done.
A few days ago, I wrote a piece entitled, Is Toyota’s Pain GM’s Gain? and although this crisis is badly hurting Toyota’s sales now and for the foreseeable future (they posted a 8.7% loss in January with only a few of the days at the end of the month being affected by these recalls) it is still unclear if GM will directly benefit.
Will a customer looking for a Toyota Camry make the jump to a Malibu? Or will they look to another manufacturer? Honda would seem to benefit the most from that scenario. Or will they simply insist on still buying that Camry, but look to postpone that purchase until well after the US Transportation Secretary gives Toyota the rubber stamp of approval and stops saying things like Toyota is “a little safety deaf”? I wager many will fall into that last camp. People don’t need a excuse to not buy a car right now, and many of Toyota’s customers in the end are probably still fairly loyal. (JD Power surveys puts the retention rate at over 60%) I expect the bulk of Toyota’s lost sales to be mostly customers deciding to just not buy. A no win situation for the industry as a whole.
However, coupling Toyota’s damaged brand name with the tarnish that has been put on the Prius’ halo, it will definitely help one car in particular at GM, our own Chevy Volt.
The Prius is purchased for not only how it performs and how much fuel it saves, but also for how it makes you feel, and how you are perceived by your peers. (The ’smugness’ factor if you will) Many cars have come and gone attempting to compete with, and dethrone the Prius…all have failed. In the end, it may be this convergence of events that opens the door enough for another car to someday take over its halo, and the mantle of the car of the future.
/I don’t see why that car can’t be the Volt
This entry was posted on Saturday, February 6th, 2010 at 9:14 am and is filed under Competitors, Op-ed. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
+7
Feb 6th, 2010 (9:19 am)Thanks Statik,
In Belgium, my neighbor has already turned his toyota to his dealer.
JC
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+4
Feb 6th, 2010 (9:30 am)Maybe i’m crazy but that sounded like Statik……..
Statik,
One of your old school articles about the economic status of GM would be good, maybe a Grade on how they managed and emerged from bankruptcy??
It’s amazing the difference a year makes…… Not that long ago when Toyota was taking over the #1 automaker spot and GM was free falling…..
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+8
Feb 6th, 2010 (9:37 am)Most of these Import lovers will look at another import cuz they don’t have a clue how important a strong domestic car industry is to a country bleeding jobs as fast as the USA is. I bought the hype myself a few years ago and purchased a late model toyota tacoma. TUrned out to be the worst rust bucket, poorest designed, and least reliable truck i ever owned. Im glad i kept my GM truck. Been driving GM for 35 years now and never a major repair or breakdown,will keep driving GM.
The only problem i have with my GM silverado is it won’t wear out so i can buy s new one.
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+5
Feb 6th, 2010 (9:40 am)Welcome back Statik…
While this definitely damages the Prius “Brand”, considering that I can’t buy a Volt for another 9 months, and that the Media news cycle is measured in days, not months.. I would assume alot of this “blows over” before the Volt is released in such quantities, that it’s actually a viable alternative…
Now, I DO see this a boon for the Ford Fusion, as it’s pretty much Ford’s “Halo” car, but I’ve heard that Ford is doing a similar fix for it’s brakes.. Its just that hasn’t received as much publicity today..
This all does say, at least to me, that NGMC, REALLY, REALLY needs to get the Volt “right”, even if it takes more time, or a slower release. Any “safety” issues with the Volt, as it’s “new”, will be like “blood in the water” for the media… Hope the GM testing folks are heads down, and “not being” pushed too much by the board.
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+9
Feb 6th, 2010 (9:41 am)However, coupling Toyota’s damaged brand name with the tarnish that has been put on the Prius’ halo, it will definitely help one car in particular at GM, our own Chevy Volt.
It is just not clear what the public’s reaction will be. It could be to shift brands (Toyota to Honda or Ford or GM), which might help Volt On the other hand, it could be to generalize the conclusion (new fangled cars are dangerous so stick with traditional ones), which would hurt Volt.
Or, as you said, it could be to temper the instinct to purchase and just not buy anything until the dust settles. That is what has happened most often with other products.
It is not at all clear that what is happening is going to help the Volt, because there won’t be very many for a long time, so by the time there is a choice the whole affair will be forgotten. Then, how many of those people will someday have the opportunity to buy Volts will have been considering Toyotas anyway?
All in all, it seems unlikely to me that Toyota’s problems will have much influence on Volt one way or another, but if there should be an effect, I see it as a mild negative from the latent fear of errors still present in something so new and different.
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+6
Feb 6th, 2010 (9:43 am)hi JonP #2 …
____________________________
“Many cars have come and gone attempting to compete with, and dethrone the Prius…
…events that opens the door enough for another car to someday take over its halo
…don’t see why that car can’t be the Volt.”
Think about it. Smooth, quiet, high torque electric drive. Stopping to buy 2 or 3 gallons of gasoline each month. The Volt may supersede a few more than just the Prius.
=D~
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+5
Feb 6th, 2010 (9:49 am)Lyle,
I had a early Prius I. On multiple occasions when the weather got in to the high 80’s, the car would go into a go slow mode, and refuse to go over 30 mph. Toyota claimed nothing was wrong, but after numerous calls, towed the vehicle 300 miles to a regional center.
They never acknowledged the problem. The weather cooled and the obvious software problem was fixed the next summer.
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (9:52 am)Well said and this cannot be repeated enough!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+9
Feb 6th, 2010 (9:53 am)Toyota will need years to recover from this, but honestly they will probably never fully recover. The single biggest reason I believe they will never return to their “can’t do no wrong” status is simply because it looks like they hid this problem hoping it would fade out or go away on its own. The general public forgives rather easily when you make a mistake and own up to it quickly, but when you try to deceive people is when Americans write you off to never return and they will take their family and friends with them. Simply put, Toyota has lost the people’s trust and this will be very difficult if not impossible to recover from. Future sales is what will hurt this brand for years to come (not the recall). From my own stand-point, if I had a Toyota that was affected I am a confident enough driver that I would still drive it until I could get it fixed, BUT most people are not us. Most are not car nuts and follow every little thing and know their limits. If my daughters were old enough to drive they would NOT be allowed to touch the Toyota in question because I would fear for their safety as inexperienced drivers. Most of the general public will fall into this category as well whether it is for themselves or a loved one. Is this being blown out of proportion, probably, but this will plague Toyota for years to come just like GM has been plagued by the past even though they should be out of the doghouse because the quality gap between Domestic and Imports is no longer true. GM and Ford are building some of the best vehicles on the planet but some just won’t believe it. So even if Toyotas are safe or become safe, some just won’t believe it. Maybe this evet with Toyota will give GM and Ford a second chance to gain some market share again whether it is justified or not-it is what it is.
Hawk
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (9:54 am)From your lips to God’s ear!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+8
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:00 am)Just a sample of the continuing landslide of bad headlines for Toyota:
U.S. probes Prius brakes
Toyota president apologizes for recalls
S&P may downgrade Toyota
Statement by Toyota President Akio Toyoda
Howes: Toyota finds it’s mortal after all
U.S. officials probe deeper on Toyota recalls
Report: Toyota to recall Prius
Toyota posts $1.7B profit, raises annual forecast
Toyota: Prius had brake design problems
NHTSA seeks detailed records from Toyota pedal maker
LaHood: Toyota is ‘good corporate citizen’
Feds weigh civil case over gas pedal recall
Toyota’s reputation takes a costly hit
Toyota sales off 16% after recalls
Toyota hit by Prius brake complaints
LaHood says he misspoke when he told Toyota owners to stop driving
Toyota denies ignoring warnings, reveals pedal fixes
Toyota executive: Pedal fix too late to prevent backlash
NHTSA considers imposing civil penalty over Toyota recalls
U.S. raised Toyota gas pedal issue in ‘07
Toyota hopes media blitz will reassure customers
Toyota to begin sticky pedal fix, restart production next week
Lentz says Toyota cars are safe on ‘Today’ show
Toyota defends handling of ‘very complex’ issue
Inaba to testify at Toyota hearing Feb. 10
Pedal complaints reach recalled Vibes
Toyota faces scrutiny on recall handling
Toyota to disclose solution to sticking pedals Monday
Toyota shares plunge but may go lower still
Toyota dealers face a public fretting about recalls
Autos-Toyota
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100204/OPINION03/2040354#ixzz0elepzxOK
————————————————————-
I think Toyota is done a as premier car company. I have never seen such a PR mess for an auto company in my life.
Toyota will survive, but it will be a whole new ball game. And with the advent of the Chevy Volt and a whole new way of motoring, it will be an American company that is the winning team.
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+13
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:05 am)I have to differ with those that say that Toyota’s current issues will blow over soon given the 24 hour news cycle. Yes, the cars will be fixed and the events of the last few weeks will be behind us – but the lawsuits will march on (and on and on). People have lost their lives and family members will not be silent. Toyota will have to fight these suits on some level and even settlements “of undisclosed amounts” will reach the news. I wish Toyota no ill, but this is not a short-term event.
All the more reason for the Volt to be “spot on perfect” before release! JMO
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:15 am)Nice job, Statik. I think you should negotiate a larger font for your “credit” at the end! Most of us can tell it’s you within the first paragraph, but not everyone has been around here that long (and your posts have been less frequent – and all the more cherished).
I hope you’re cards run well in Vegas!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:20 am)“Now: should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don’t do one.” -The Narrator (Tyler Durden) Fight Club
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:21 am)+1 I agree.
First Toy has to prove the problems have been fixed. They don’t even have a fix yet for the brakes how can it blow over quickly. Some believe the petal fix will not fix the problem.
Second The lawsuits will go on for some time.
Third lower reasale values.
This will not blow over for years, if ever.
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:22 am)I think Toyota will pull out of its current problems eventually… probably sooner than you think. I don’t know how many of you remember the Ford Pinto, but it had a tendency to explode when rear-ended at even relatively slow speeds. Initially Ford concluded that it would be cheaper to fight victims and their families in court rather than issue a recall and fix the car. Eventually, after many deaths, Ford issued a recall and “fixed” the car. Ford seems to be doing fine now (well, better than GM).
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+19
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:40 am)Possibly quoting from Frank Capra’s “It’s A Wonderful Life”, I consider myself to be a very lucky individual because I have lots of friends and family. Most of them are very affluent and none luckily have suffered employment loss during this economic downturn. Some drive Toyotas, some drive Mercedes, some BMW, Honda, GM, Ford, Nissan and one drives Chrysler.
All of them buy new, or lease their cars/SUVs. I’ve known most of them to trade-in their cars for new models every 3 to 4 years. Interestingly none of them have bought or leased a new car since 2007. I haven’t asked them all, but those I’ve ask why, have all replied the same, “I’m waiting to buy a Volt”. To which I reply, “So am I”. They all seem to think their current car will be technically obsolete when the Volt rolls out in full force. They expect the resale value of current cars to drop drastically and those who leased did so because of this.
So when I hear a company like Toyota say their sales dropped due to bad PR from recalls, I say “keep dreaming”. The Volt even though not on sale yet, has been already taking market share.
The Volt is a game changer!
NPNS!
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:41 am)I think this is the driving thrust of the issue. If it were just a few broken store fronts. Or a handful of close calls on the freeway. The brake and speed control problems wouldn’t damage Toyota significantly. If only it were a matter of replacing the floor mats.
=D~
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+14
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:44 am)Toyota Motors (founded in 1937) adopted the fundamental teachings of W. Edwards Deming, the American “father of total quality” before they began importing cars to the US in the 1950s. Their insistence on manufacturing quality was easily justified by the Japanese cultural characteristic —fear of embarrassment and the related desire to avoid being scrutinized, investigated or analyzed. Toyota’s current accelerator & brake problems must therefore be very emotionally painful to them.
But in my many visits to Japan in connection with their space program I began to realize that their obsession with manufacturing perfection didn’t always include a sufficiently careful analysis/critique of their designs for potential flaws, which might also be related to their cultural desire to avoid being scrutinized or embarrassed.
I’m therefore not too surprised that Toyota overlooked inherent design flaws and/or lack of redundancy in critical components/subsystems like brakes and accelerators. IOW, in spite of their obsession with manufacturing quality, Japanese automotive design shortcomings can result from their lesser emphasis on the extensive redundancies, fail-safe designs and Failure Mode, Effects, and Criticality Analysis (FMECA) needed to identify and avoid potential design flaws. And this is a principle reason I’ve never owned a Japanese car.
PS: I kidded a Japanese engineer about his being “inscrutable” once –he didn’t appreciate the comment!
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:54 am)Toyota’s cultivated image is in freefall.
HEY, I GOT AN IDEA……
They should restart that catchy “Saved By Zero” Advertising Campaign from a couple years back! That would turn the tide.
Video … A driver turns into a Toyota dealership at high speed, taking out a brick wall in the Service Dept.
“Saaaaavveeed………Byyyyyy……..Zeeeeerrroooooooo” !
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+10
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:56 am)People have long memories if they are directly affected by a bad product or bad service.
I will never, ever, buy a Ford product because of an engine problem in a Mercury over 10 years ago. They just didn’t take care of me. I was left hanging with a $5500 repair that could have be handled under warranty. (the car had 20k miles on it). I was told by their service manager that I ‘wasn’t their customer’ because I bought the car in Maryland and moved to Illinois due to my job. It was a nightmare.
There was a fatal accident in my area involving a Toyota ’stuck accelerator’ problem. They crashed upside down in a body of water and all 4 people drowned. Will I buy or ride in a Toyota? No way.
These recalls will haunt Toyota for many years. They will lose sales forever.
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+7
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:08 am)This is the main point. The Pinto hasn’t been in production for 30 years and yet people still remember. The story is being passed down through the generations of car buyers.
This mess with Toyota won’t be forgotten either. Now that the news is more viral because of the Internet, the story will last forever in cyberspace.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:14 am)“While the damage to Toyota’s reputation has certainly taken a hit of late due to the widely publicized problems with stuck accelerator pedals on many models, a case could have been made that it was insular event.”
“INSULAR” EVENT ?!? Wow, Statik, maybe you really ARE in the tank for Toyota ! Let’s see – we had all those Camry engine sludge complaints, which led to a class action lawsuit and renewed scrutiny of Toyo’s infamous “secret warranties” back in 2007, not to mention the numerous Tundra recalls over bed vibrations, steering defects, and now frames rusting to the point parts are falling off their trucks. Jap-lovin’ Consumer Reports even publicly admitted to withdrawing their “automatic endorsement” of new Toyota models ( with NO data ! ) due to the sudden increase in major quality problems – ALL BEFORE THIS “SUDDEN ACCELERATION” issue got it’s first headline ink !
More “hard hitting”, “keeping it real” Statik expose’ work, eh ? Maybe this is why you berated GM for not rushing the Volt into production a few months ago …. maybe you wanted them to take a bite of this TOYO apple ?
Don’t forget your pledge to me, by the way – Volt’s launch by November, public apology to GM and Maximum Bob ! “Insular issue” – who dreamed up that one for you …. Jim Lentz ?
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/26/business/la-fi-toyota-cost26-2009nov26?pg=2
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:19 am)Ford issued a “fix” in 1978 and was sued for a burn accident in 1981 for 2.5 million dollars. That’s DECADES ago.
Maybe not the best example of things blowing over soon.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:26 am)I agree.
There was an upside down Toyota crash mentioned a week ago on one of the nightly news broadcast. I believe it was around Louisville.
The driver was in intensive care, fighting for his life.
On lemon cars / models, I too had a bad experience with a Mercury. Couldn’t keep a head gasket on my 1.9L Tracer Wagon. Otherwise, it was a good car.
People will long remember safety issues and warn others to stay clear. When I was a kid in grade school, there was VW Bug crash / fire not far from where we lived. A young teacher was burned alive in her car. I remember our school bus passing the scene not long after the fire was put out.
Needless to say, years later when I got my drivers license and started looking at used cars, the classic VW Beetle was not on my list.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:27 am)Good post Nasaman.
“But in my many visits to Japan in connection with their space program I began to realize that their obsession with manufacturing perfection didn’t always include a sufficiently careful analysis/critique of their designs for potential flaws, which might also be related to their cultural desire to avoid being scrutinized or embarrassed.”
This is certainly a fiasco for Toyota, I think 99% of people will forget about it in about a year though.
Despite what the perception of Toyota may be, with Toyoda himself heading up a quality control committee, I think Toyota will be quite a bit more of a reliability competitor for GM and Ford than ever because as you said, there’s few things that Japanese hate more than having their work questioned, analyzed and investigated, but if there is one thing worse, it would be having the CEO of Japan’s “admiration of the world” company analyze and investigate you himself and find out you were the one that screwed up! This is a country where people walk in front of a moving subway because of the shame they felt when they didn’t do well enough on a test in school.
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:31 am)Toyota chose to emphasize becoming #1 in the 1990’s, and they let Deming’s influence wane slightly. These problems wouldn’t have happened 15 years ago. Basically the bean counters took over and the engineers were put in the back seat. And this is fairly typical of MBA run corporations of late.
I saw a Pinto spin out on an icy road in Montana back in the late 70’s. The girl lost control, the car spun one and a half times and went into a telephone pole backwards, doing no more than 15 miles an hour. The gas tank just popped like a balloon, gas droplets sprayed everywhere. Luckily the car didn’t explode, but I have no idea how it didn’t do so. Then the doors wouldn’t open so we had to pull them out of a window. Not sure how other cars would have handled a rear end impact like that but I hope most would do better.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:32 am)/I put my OT 2 cents on the Toyota issue in previous post….that’s about all I have to say about that.
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+4
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:33 am)WOW, guido, you must be new here! That’s the kindest explanation I can come up with for your rant about statik wishing the Volt ill. He’s been a supporter (in his unique way) of the Volt forever on this site and is probably more knowledgeable than any 6 of us combined. Yes, he and I have bantered (another kind word)(g) about the realities of the Volt and it’s development, but he keeps me (relatively) grounded, and I drag him away from data induced analysis paralysis.
But NEVER has he been a shill for anyone.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+8
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:36 am)The great Toyota is now getting exposed for what they really are. They’ve had many defects in the past that the public just ignored or did not know about. Many sales were lost by American auto companies for the false perception Toyota held for so long. I hope now many Americans start buying more Malibu’s or Fusion’s. I strongly believe these two cars are superior in every form or shape than the Toyota Camry…. and that’s not to mention some of the other great cars GM and Ford make.
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+4
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:42 am)(bare with me, I’m going wade in on this one…old school like, if you will)
I have a opinion on it (go figure), but we need a base to jump from still. We have had one ’sorta’ quarterly/up to now report since the bankruptcy, but we need another to start doing comps.
There still are a couple of very basic things to determine. Bottom line impact of GM’s well…ugly monthly results since the C11 (despite leading the league in incentives for almost all of those months) and the cost (now and in the future) to keep international operations and core suppliers liquid/funded -versus- the servicing savings on debt, streamlining initiatives, and the new domestic labor deals.
Do I believe they are profitable right now? No way. How bad is it? I don’t know. They have a lot of cash in the bank still, so it is hard to cut through the subterfuge…this is only compounded by the fact they are not a public company now.
I do think the issue of GM’s future and solvency has shifted away from what is happening in North America and what is happening overseas. That is where the battle is being fought.
The biggest question is does it even matter anymore? None of us have a (direct) interest in the company atm (from a shareholder’s prospective) other then those in its employ…and for many us, we only care about getting one car specifically from GM.
To that end (consumers getting the opportunity to buy the Volt) would GM even be allowed to fail in that near of a term, causing us to miss out? Doesn’t feel like it. I think interest in the company is more out of some kind of morbid curiousity of late, rather than implications of what does it mean to us.
I suspect you would be subjected to more GM ‘financial’ pieces from me in the future (provided Lyle keeps me around, lol) when GM files its next report and eventual S-1 (and subsequent quiet period). Until there is real vested interested in the success/failure of the company to the readership (other than the general well being of a American institution) there is no sense pounding that drum too much I figure.
I kind of enjoy the lull, it is going to be a exciting year, and it is nice to have the bulk of the focus on the Volt itself (and the industry it will compete in) rather than GM’s bank balance.
/everything in moderation
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:49 am)#19. On point! Dr. Deming set Japanese (and Ford) management on the right QA path. Deming’s teachings are especially relevant for Whitacre to heed. Forget Toyota. Get GM’s QC house in order. If GM’s board had a spine they’d vote a resolution Whitacre memorize Deming’s 14 key principles and recite them every morning. Principle #10 “Eliminate slogans, exhortations, and targets for the work force asking for zero defects and new levels of productivity. Such exhortations only create adversarial relationships, as the bulk of the causes of low quality and low productivity belong to the system and thus lie beyond the power of the work force.” (Credit-Wikipedia) Principle # 12 “a. Remove barriers that rob the hourly worker of his right to pride of workmanship. The responsibility of supervisors must be changed from sheer numbers to quality. b. Remove barriers that rob people in management and in engineering of their right to pride of workmanship. This means, inter alia,” abolishment of the annual or merit rating and of management by objective.” (Credit-Wikipedia)
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:49 am)#31 me
bare = bear
…I know how the grammar/spelling police are on the lookout for me
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:54 am)Will future Volt buyers now question the car’s safety with its many electronic control systems?
For some a car with less electronics might seem the safer choice.
As a result of Toyota’s problems the way GM educates the public about the Volt’s driver safety features becomes more important than ever before.
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (12:06 pm)This is why it is good not to rush the Volt.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (12:14 pm)I think the key word you left out is “alleged,” as in “alleged to have lost their lives”. When Audi had the unintended acceleration issues they found physical evidence that the driver had his/her foot on the gas pedal, pressing it so hard it suffered damage as they tried to brake. Basically people do mix the pedals up from time to time.
Other than the family in San Diego, which was related to floor mats, the evidence in the other cases seems spotty at best. Maybe I’m too skeptical of human failing, but when you have one 75 year old alleging unintended acceleration of the Prius I’m thinking that it’s more likely human error than a defective car. That could be wrong but the odds would certainly favor that conclusion.
People think software is buggy, and it is, but not nearly as buggy as the human brain in many circumstances.
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (12:30 pm)Alleged is good enough. Toyota has money and lawyers (some) will converge for their piece of the pie.
A big law firm will start a class action suit and work about 1 million billable hours as they hold Toyota’s feet to the fire in endless leagle haggling. In the end, Toyota will pay to end the pain and the lawyers will have to be paid first of course since they have worked so hard on this. The allegedly damaged customers will end up getting a coupon good for $250 off their next full priced Toyota purchase (coupon not good with any other offers). If their lucky the Lawyers will work it out so they get a free oil change too.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (12:32 pm)#31
It matters A LOT to me. First, the Volt, and all that can follow on from it, are going to be a short term phenomenon if GM finally goes belly up. And second, our business is connected to GM in a sort of independent aftermarket way, so its survival is very important to us.
I see the Volt as the canary in the coal mine of the survival of GM. This is at least as much of the reason why I follow this blog so faithfully as is my desire to buy a Volt. From what I see, GM-Volt.com is as good of a window into the survival prospects of GM as can be found.
BTW, I find it very interesting that you, and the media in general in the past few days, refer to the Prius as Toyota’s “image flagship”. Not the Avalon, and evidently not even the mighty Lexus. I agree, and it only points out the tremendous opportunity for GM to do the same with the Volt.
+1 for being here. Any insight on the financial and business condition of GM is deeply appreciated, at least by me.
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (12:34 pm)I listened to the 911 recording of the family of 4 that hit the intersection at 120 mph. The last thing the driver shouted to his wife was “Pray!”. I really thought that you were kidding when you started your post about the omission of the word “alleged”. When testifying before congress the govt official that mis-spoke about “Don’t drive ‘em” (which he has recanted) there was no talk about “alleged” problems. Does Toyota’s reaction to the “alleged” problems support the idea that it’s driver error? If they stopped all sales AND production “just to be safe”, they are *really* safety conscious!
At the very least I hope that we can agree that the deceased are truly dead.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (12:37 pm)How many still remember the Ford Explorer – Firestone problem ? I guess a lot of us do.
But how many Ford buyers today would consider that relevent … ?
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+5
Feb 6th, 2010 (12:44 pm)#39
I heard it too. Pretty chilling. And the driver was a California Highway Patrol officer, who I assume must have been trained in high speed pursuit driving. So I would sort of rule out foot on the throttle by accident in that case. Plus, I would assume that he would have been experienced enough to untangle the floor mat, turn off the engine, and/or shove it in neutral. I mean, they had time to call 911, didn’t they? Something strange is surely going on.
Our local paper carried a story yesterday about a lawsuit against Toyota by the family of a 66 year old woman killed in a Toyota. “Allegedly”, the car was going 100 mph down the street in San Bernardino. She had jammed on the “emergency brake” to try to get it to stop.
Wait for it, the perfect storm is coming.
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (12:46 pm)You not to worry.
The Big man at Toyota say, “So Sorry”
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (12:55 pm)All good. All true, your point is very valid, and many people do have a concern at some level or other.
I think what I was trying to say (somewhat obtusely) is that the near-term concerns are at a much lower level now, and the focus on GM’s internals is considerably lower, to the point where people don’t associate the Volt’s existence/rollout/prospectus with GM’s financials at all anymore. (at least for the most part)
I think without people taking gains and losses on a equity position and with the government’s current role as backstop, the interest in the day-to-day, will/won’t GM succeed, what is their outlook, how will they run their business in the future has been muted to some extent…so your not seeing the almost daily focus it once was here at GM-Volt.com anymore.
Once GM makes it known when they look to go public, and/or when the government indicates it is willing to release GM back into the wild to eventually live or die on its own…it will matter a great deal more to the collective consciousness then.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (1:04 pm)Careful, you only used “allegedly” once, and even then it was in quotes (lol). I’m still a bit stunned and confused about DonC’s post. I know that I tend to over-analyze things (occupational hazard), but is it political correctness run amok? ACLUese? DonC is one of the more knowledgeable folks here (IMO), so it’s not ignorance. I have no idea, and it’s probably not relevant anyway (g).
I try to be pretty quick to take suggestions and change my behavior, but in this case that ain’t gonna happen.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (1:06 pm)But the Japanese press isn’t cutting him ANY slack.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (1:24 pm)Tag, I mean you no disrespect whatsoever, but are you Statik’s brother or a close relative ? The way I’ve got it figured on my scorecard, Statiks endless conspiracy theories and allegations of lies from GM regarding the Volts development have left him with a batting average well south of the Mendoza line. If that kind of rhetoric sends a tingle up and down your leg, so bet it. Be well – G.
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+7
Feb 6th, 2010 (1:45 pm)I find the customer loyalty to Toyota truly amazing. I read through some of the comments on the NYT articles. And people are convinced that it’s the drivers fault. That we don’t educate our drivers well enough. That it’s somehow the government’s fault. It’s CTS’s fault. (Those lousy American worker’s.) Or even GM and Ford’s fault. Anyone but Toyota.
It would be inspiring if it wasn’t so misguided. Not to mention damaging to our country. You know, the one most of those commentators actually live in. At least, IMHO.
So, I don’t have too much hope that the Volt will take over the Prius’s halo. At least not right away. Or that GM will benefit all that much from Toyota’s problems. Don’t get me wrong. The Volt will sell. But it won’t have the cache that the Prius currently does. I hope I’m wrong.
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (1:48 pm)Unfortunately, from what I’ve seen, people are giving Toyota credit for the government mandated production stop.
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (1:51 pm)Blah, Blah, Blah….
Don’t care about Toyota, and have no plans to buy one….
Let’s get back to talking about the Project Driveway for the Volt!!!!!
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (1:51 pm)I suppose it’s possible that we’re twins secretly separated at birth, and given how diametrically opposed he and I have been on most issues, I don’t see your point. It doesn’t follow that *either* of us is a conspiracist. Are you saying that your scorecard has my batting average well south of the Mendoza line too? Help me out here, I don’t know which rhetoric is tingling your leg and it sounds like something I’d want to avoid (eewwww).
Statik is my friend, but we’ve never met. He’s been an asset here for years. The mystery isn’t that I’d defend him, it’s why you’d feel a need to attack him.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (1:52 pm)The problem for Toyota, the way I see it, is that the company completely mismanaged this crisis.
Over the years, Toyota managed to build a reputation with the public that was based on trust. It created a perception in the public mind that what mattered for Toyota was the customer. The bottom line came second. This was in contrast to the domestic auto industry that simply did not care what the customer wanted. On that point I recall a story I read somewhere about how GM managed to milk the goodwill in connection with the Cadillac brand that took years to build. To increase profits GM purposely put on the market lesser quality cars that were much less expensive to build and sold only because they were branded Cadillacs and people bought them on the expectation of receiving a much higher quality products. At the time the bean counters that came up with this brilliant idea were heroes because they managed to increase profits in the short term. The fact that the strategy managed to damage the reputation of the Cadillac brand in the long run did not matter. Today GM is desperately trying to regain the former Cadillac glory.
Toyota managed to do just that. No matter what they do now, people see that the company failed to act on time, did not come clean and is no different than any one else.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (1:56 pm)LOL, I’d vote for that, but I’m the one always yammering about people going off topic! (whispers: but GM is missing the boat if it doesn’t do a project driveway with the Volt!).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (2:08 pm)That Toyota has chosen the route of stonewalling and covering up their problems instead of promptly owning up to them is what I find most disgusting. They’ve worked very hard to blend into American life and culture so well that many people think they ARE an American company.
It’s a weird scenario quite like the plot in the TV show “V” where aliens have come to earth talking peace and friendliness all the while plotting to take over the planet and turn it into a food farm for their own cannibalistic appetites.
But then the truth is exposed….. these guys have been covering up safety issues and problems with product for a number of years! It’s turned out to be a shocking betrayal of the virginal image of truth, honesty and integrity; an image which people used to hold for GM once upon a time….
It was a false image which Toyota enjoyed; they come crashing down hard when they do. Shock, disbelief, feelings of betrayal develop among the masses, manifesting in anger against the one who stole their trust. GM has seen this happen to them. Unfortunately now it’s Toyota’s turn.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (2:38 pm)Well, it may have been decades since the Pinto was in the news, but Ford didn’t have to wait decades for it to blow over. Within a few years Ford’s reputation was substantially repaired. The Taurus was a huge success begining in the mid-80s.
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+5
Feb 6th, 2010 (2:40 pm)Dagwood! Dagwood! Calling Dagwood! I miss you so, and worry about your health now that your personal God has fallen from grace. Please give us a sign that you are ok. Dagwood!
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-3
Feb 6th, 2010 (2:47 pm)It still amazes me how much statik looks like Jeff Goldblum from Jurassic Park…
Anyways…
Hey Toyota people! If you’re turning in your death traps – - forget Honda. Go over to Subaru. Yes. Subaru.
The 2010’s are extremely comfortable, well equipped, great handling AWD vehicles.
I was surprised more than anyone how nice they are. The ’styling’ isn’t mainstream, but if you are open minded, they are really worth a look.
That is… if you are not holding out for a VOLT.
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+5
Feb 6th, 2010 (2:52 pm)Subaru? What about a Malibu? Or an Impala? Or even a Camaro?
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (2:52 pm)I hope that GM is working like crazy to make the Volt one of THE most reliable, high quality cars on the road like the Ford Fusion Hybrid is. That car is getting excellent reviews by Consumer Reports for reliability and quality. It is rated #1 in an Owner’s Satisfaction Survey that I saw …. ahead of the Prius. I bet TONS of nervous Prius owners who can’t wait for the Volt might make the switch to the Fusion Hybrid.
If Ford can build cars with better quality and reliability than the Toyota, then so can GM if they work hard at it. Get ‘er done GM! I hope to see excellent Consumer Reports ratings for the Volt in the next year or so.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (2:54 pm)Now that’s just mean. (funny, but mean. lol)
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (2:57 pm)And the Pinto was hardly comparable to 8 Ford models Plus their flagship. Just saying.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 6th, 2010 (2:58 pm)You are probably right Tag, there is also a new issue of the internet.. the countless hits you get when you google toyota quality will remain there forever.. every single person who had an issue on a Toyota will probably post on it many times for many years.
If we see the Honda Insight start to sell well then we know that the Prius took a hit.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (3:00 pm)Isn’t the Fusion having some problems?
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 6th, 2010 (3:13 pm)Well, of course any of the Chevrolets, but the comparison was that only “Honda” is the best alternative to a Toyota. And I’m not saying Honda is bad. There was a time when we were a 3-Honda-Car family.
But, as Spock once said, “There are always alternatives.”
Oh, did I mention that our ’sister’ dealership has Subaru ?
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Feb 6th, 2010 (3:20 pm)My gravatar?
That is actually Jemaine Clement from Flight of the Conchords. He is one half of New Zealand’s fourth most popular guitar-based digi-bongo acapella-rap-funk-comedy folk duo…and from the HBO show of the same name.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (3:25 pm)Embed links are not one with the site, so here is a clip from Flight of the Conchords as point of reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmDTSQtK20c
Not everyone’s cup of tea for humor, but it is up my alley.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (3:34 pm)People are hyper-critical of hybrids because they’re new technology. People are also hyper-critical of Toyota because their cars have been nearly perfect.
As a Prius 2 owner since 2005, I have experienced this braking “issue” everyone’s talking about. It’s about as minor as it comes. If you’re some kind of Nervous Nellie, you might get a little concerned for about a second and a half. Then you realize you’re driving a car with a slightly different braking feel and you compensate your driving style. It’s no different than the need to feather the brake to keep it in regen mode for maximum efficiency. Just part of getting the most from your Prius.
The accelerator pedal problem might be a little more of a concern, but still, if the accelerator sticks, step on the brakes, put your car in neutral, and pull over.
Obviously, they need to come up with a fix for it, but it’s pretty amazing that we have the world’s #1 automaker in the dock because of something that, for most drivers, should be a minor annoyance.
I hope to own a Volt someday, but that has nothing to do with my confidence in Toyota having been shaken. They’ve always built great cars. And what’s with all the nationalism? Who cares? Both GM and Toyota are global companies, with cars sold and parts shipped in from subs all over the world.
I have two Toyotas, one a Matrix built in Canada, the other a Prius built in Japan. In a few years, I’ll most likely have an American Volt parked next to the Prius. But I would have wanted a Volt no matter where it was made, and if Toyota comes up with a better plug-in hybrid in the future, I’ll buy it.
I’m very happy with the Prius, and I won’t be taking it in for the recall. It’s a fantastic (and roomy midsize) car and still gets 46mpg and drives like it’s brand new after 60,000 miles.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (3:46 pm)Wow.
I know that we have a lot of dyed in the wool Volt folks here, but I hope that it never goes this far.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (3:48 pm)#67
Tell that to the dead. See Tagamet’s comment at #39
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (3:53 pm)I think Corvetteguy got a new job.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (3:58 pm)I deal w/Japanese engineers a lot, and you can’t tell them they’re wrong or made a mistake. Well you can, but they will tell you that you’re wrong (or do some other kind of spin). Eventually after several phone calls, meetings, and 50 emails, you may get them to admit their error. If you can last that long. I think its just their culture. The “shocking” news stories of the actions of Toyota don’t surprise me that much.
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-5
Feb 6th, 2010 (4:11 pm)Unless someone can prove to me brake failure (of both standard and parking brakes), gear selector failure, or ignition switch failure, there is utterly no excuse for anyone hitting an intersection at 120 MPH and killing people except for human error. The exclamation of “Pray!” on the 911 call says it all.
I have only this to say: “If you had time to dial 911, hit the gear selector, brakes, or ignition switch. Just pick one, Doofus!”
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (4:17 pm)And you believe that the driver, who happened to be a State Policeman, didn’t try any of those options?
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 6th, 2010 (4:17 pm)The family you’re talking about died because the dealer put floor mats from one car into a different car. That said, yes the floor mats are a problem, and there is probably a 1:500,000,000 chance that it could lead to a horrible crash. But the floor mats have already been recalled. You’re conflating the floor mat problem with a problem with a sticky accelerator pedal.
Whether the sticky accelerator problem has lead to any actual deaths is an open question AFAIK. In this regard, the National Highway Review Commission found that “the only defect trend related to vehicle speed control in the subject vehicles involved the potential for accelerator pedals to become trapped near the floor by out-of-position or inappropriate floor mat installations,” So alleged would be the right word, at least at this time. I’m not sure why you’re so certain that a sticky accelerator pedal has caused any deaths.
As a FYI, the state trooper who died may have died because of his training. Most people whose accelerator pedal was stuck in the on position would ordinarily shift the car into neutral. He didn’t do that because the California Hwy Patrol trains their officers not to do this, for reasons which are not entirely clear to me but which have something to do with losing control of the vehicle.
One system which might be worthwhile adding would be an auto shut-off of the throttle if the automatic breaking system is engaged. In our newer car if the system senses you are closing too fast on another car or object it engages the breaks and tightens the seat belts. (It might automatically cut the throttle but it’s hard for me to say, the episode is usually unexpected and it’s very brief). You’d think they could automatically negate the throttle at the same time.
The media focus on the possible unintended acceleration problems strikes me as a good example of how the human mind is incapable of rationally accessing risk in some situations. Most of the time it’s pretty good, but it greatly overemphasizes small new risks while ignoring existing large risks. We know that 4500 people die in SUV rollovers each year, as opposed to four people dying in only one year because of floor mats, and that half of all farm deaths are caused by tractor rollovers. Yet people don’t give that risk a thought, despite the fact that its much larger, that it’s certain rather than possible, and that it’s certainly preventable. Hence we’re still waiting for the recall on SUVs.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (4:29 pm)#70
Or he’d better start looking, LOL +1
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (4:30 pm)That’s an apt description but in reality the customers would get the free oil change (value $19.95) and the lawyers would get tens of millions “for all their hard work.”
However, while we are on this topic, there are conservative economists who argue that product liability lawsuits are the perfect market based solution to defective products. In this view, companies should be free to knowingly put defective products into the market, even if those defective products will cause severe death or injury. The theory is that lawsuits will fairly value the cost of death or injury, so if it’s cheaper for a company to sell defective products and pay damages than to ensure the products are safe that’s the correct market based solution. One of the leading proponents of this was James Miller, Ronald Reagan’s head of OMB.
On the other end of the spectrum are those who think that no is responsible for their decisions. When air bags were still an option, there were plenty of lawsuits where people consciously declined the air bag option because it was too expensive and then sued when they were in an accident and suffered an injury which could have been prevented by the airbag, the theory being that the company should have forced them to make the right decision.
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-2
Feb 6th, 2010 (4:33 pm)#73
Well it’s nice to see that someone’s taking up the slack for Dagwood! +1
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Feb 6th, 2010 (4:34 pm)#74
You got that right. One’s as bad as the other. Dead is dead.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (4:38 pm)I thought this was a post by Lyle until I read, “Shockingly, he offer no apology and blamed the previous president and his management team for any and all problems, claiming that everything was perfectly fine now at the ‘new’ Toyota…and the public was just being ridiculous about the whole thing and should move on with it and start buying cars from them again.”
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (4:41 pm)At one point I thought to myself that It would have been amazing if all of this news hit just as GM was announcing that Volts are being delivered to dealers. Then I had to sit down to think about the ramifications and consequences – wow. Does everyone think 10,000 Volts the first year will satisfy demand? Will Toyota recover by November and sell as many Prius’ as they can make?
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Feb 6th, 2010 (4:55 pm)I thought the floor mats were in the trunk?
Article
—————————
All four people in the car died. “There was no evidence that they attempted to hit the brake or slow down,” he said. “Honestly, my reaction is, ‘Wow.”‘
Two weeks later, an investigator from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration visited Southlake to inspect the car, accompanied by a Toyota engineer. Page said one factor they immediately ruled out was the floor mats, which were in the trunk.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (4:59 pm)Whenever the title says, Op-Ed, look to the bottom of the post and it says who wrote it (unless Lyle forgets, which is rare). If it’s talking about business, it’s usually Statik.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:06 pm)Just so I understand, you’re saying that the only safety problem of concern with Toyota’s is the floor mats? Excuse me, I mean alleged problems, but I need to be sure that that’s what you’re saying.
The confabulation was my fault, in that I read it in someone else’s post. My bad.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:07 pm)I think ppl that drive SUV’s are at least somewhat aware of a rollover problem (due to the media (and common sense)), but Toyota drivers were clueless about these problems until someone blew the whistle. Now its up to the Toyota owner to weigh the risks, and it is good that they know the risk is there, and can make a choice about it.
Regarding tractors, how many of us drive them on a regular basis? If I did, I would be aware of their danger. (see juggling chainsaws)
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:11 pm)I’m sure that you mean alleged dead….
Who was it that was posting just yesterday about trying to see the positives??? (g)
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:13 pm)From a USA Today article:
A brake-override system or “smart pedals” can slow a vehicle even if a gas pedal sticks or if it’s depressed by a driver at the wrong time. The system works simply: When brakes are pressed at the same time a gas pedal is engaged, the electronic signal propelling the car is interrupted, and the car automatically is slowed to idle.
The technology is on all Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Nissan, Infiniti, Audi and Volkswagen models. U.S. automakers, Volvo and Honda are among those without the system. [Author's Note: they system is also available in Chrysler vehicles.]
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (5:19 pm)Toyota made a mistake. They are now paying for it. And rightly so. I am sure Toyota and the rest of the auto makers will have meetings this week talking about what went wrong for the perennial Consumer Reports darling.
Can we all agree on this?
Make a mistake. Pay for it. This system has worked for over a million years now. And society is better off for it. We know what we should and shouldn’t do. We understand what is acceptable and what is verboten.
The TARP bail outs:
Greedy people bit off more than they could chew. They realized they were in very dangerous waters. Took the risk. And were rewarded with bail outs? On the tax payers dime?
I am pleased that the “new” GM is again doing well. For years they built behemoth vehicles as Honda, Toyota, and the Korean manufactures churned out efficient vehicles. The public gravitated to the Asian market. And rightly so. Seemed the Asians had a lock on the automotive market.
Quality has returned to American car making. I drive a Honda. But all the owners of new American cars that I speak with are happy with them. I have spoken with facilities management at work and asked them to consider buying American for our work fleet. They favor Nissan and Toyota for some reason.
Surfs up again GM. Don’t be timid. Do the right thing and paddle hard.
=D~
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:27 pm)I would strongly suggest you take it in for the recall repair. Why? Because even if you are not concerned, you should be for its next customer and resale value.
Hawk
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:35 pm)They may be. I have been associated with a few of them (not by any of my doing, they just told me I was in ) My problem is that it seems that the actual consumers who may have been cheated or wronged in some way really don’t benefit much from the massive class action suits.
The lawyers seem to do pretty well, however.
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (5:36 pm)You can bet it will be on every car from now on.. and forget about driving around with one foot on the brake pedal and the other foot on the gas pedal. My dad learned to drive late in his life and he picked up this bad habit from another late learner family member.. its a quick way to drive a car but can potentially ruin the brakes.
Also forget about heel-and-toe sports driving.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel-and-toe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-foot_braking
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:37 pm)What i’m saying is that the only verified deaths have been linked to floor mats. Do you have an example where an investigation has concluded that a sticky accelerator have been linked to a death or a serious injury? All I’ve seen suggests that sticky accelerators have been ruled OUT as the cause.
Is that the ONLY safety issue with Toyota? Hardly. What I’m saying is that a big safety issue for Toyota and other companies, including GM and Ford, is SUV rollovers, and that focusing on a sticky throttle which may or may not have caused an accident while ignoring the known rollover problem which has caused thousands of serious injuries and deaths is misguided.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (5:39 pm)Many of us don’t want to see US companies go under for good and surrender the auto market to the Japanese and others.
Our country cannot survive if we don’t manufacture things. Manufacturing is moving overseas at an alarming rate. Some of us just want to slow this process down as much as possible.
Obviously the country as a whole, as represented by our government, feels the same way as evidenced by the recent bail out of GM by the Government.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:44 pm)The problem is that the sticky throttle issue can jump out and run my wife into a crash at no fault of her own. When my wife drives the kids around town at normal speeds her chances of a rollover are almost non-existant.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:44 pm)Yeah, the whole class action thing is a joke. There should be some rule that limits the attorneys fees to a multiple of the recovery enjoyed by the class member who received the most.
The other party that sometimes makes out is the company. They structure the settlement so you have to buy something more in order to recover. Kind of like a giant free advertising scheme.
Sort of unrelated, but shareholder lawsuits are similar. It’s why the judge in NY refused to accept the SEC’s settlement with BoA. Basically the SEC was saying that unnamed managers misled the shareholders, victimizing them, and that “therefore” the remedy would be to have the shareholders pay a fine. The judge had trouble following the SEC’s “logic”.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:47 pm)What engineer likes to be told they are wrong?.. as a young engineer I really appreciated it when an old tech told me it was impossible to build this gizmo as designed.. it helped that he almost whacked me on the head when he said that
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:52 pm)Feb 06, 2010 9:51 AM PST
Toyota preparing to announce Prius fix next week
DETROIT (AP) — Toyota has told dealers it’s preparing a plan to repair the brakes on thousands of hybrid Prius cars in the U.S.
The problem isn’t related to separate recalls involving millions of Toyota’s with defective gas pedals and floor mats that could cause unintended acceleration.
http://www.cbs8.com/global/story.asp?s=11944378
=D~
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:54 pm)I think the difference is, if your a 25 year old drunk leaving a bar and you take a turn at 40mph and your SUV rolls, no one will be suprised. But most ppl expect their cars to do the basic funtions like, push on the gas the car goes, push on the brake it stops. You can be the best driver in the world, but if your car doesn’t do the basic funtions, your life is at risk.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (5:58 pm)I dont think so, the reputation was based on the reliability and year-after-year trouble free operation of their cars.. the generation that grew up in the ‘70 experienced the horrid cars that the Big 3 were putting out and went overboard to Honda/Toyota.. but it has been 40 years and eventually that generation will pass.. and both Ford and GM are now competing globally in terms of value and quality. Ford has built a good Prius fighter and GM is working on the Volt.
I really doubt any competent adult believes a corporation gives a hoot about their well being.
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+4
Feb 6th, 2010 (5:58 pm)According to business week, GM and Ford both “have break override units on some models.” Honda does not offer it at all. Hyundai and BMW both have it.
http://news.businessweek.com/article.asp?documentKey=1376-KXC6BG1A1I4H-19
And according to the Washington Post, “General Motors installs brake override in all of its cars in which it is possible for the engine at full throttle to overwhelm the brakes. ”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/28/AR2010012803971.html
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:59 pm)There is an old expression:
“Don’t buy life insurance. Check your brakes.”
So true. And applies to life at many levels.
=D~
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Feb 6th, 2010 (5:59 pm)All I’m saying is that floor mats have been determined to be a cause of unintended acceleration but that there has not been a similar conclusion about a sticky accelerator pedal. It may be an occupational hazard, but from experience I know that people will swear on a stack of bibles that something happened when it didn’t. They’re not being intentionally deceptive, they just have it wrong.
I keep coming back to this, but when people claimed that the Audis were accelerating even when they were vigorously stomping on the break pedal, forensic evidence from the crash showed that the driver was stomping on the gas pedal not the break pedal. That didn’t of course help Audi. I just think people are more prone to failure than electronics. So when someone says that “I was stomping on the break and the car kept accelerating” my reaction, based on what studies have show, is to assume they confused the pedals. Could be wrong but it seems to me that this is the most likely cause.
It may be that since the accident in such big news where I am that there has been a lot more coverage of the floor mat issue. It seems very probable that the mat did cause the crash.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (6:04 pm)They may or may not have been ruled out as the cause to *that* particular accident, but they are serious enough *to Toyota* to stop mfg and sales of an awful lot of vehicles. Would they have taken such a radical approach if the problem was only a floor mat?
The Toyota website recognizes that they are two separate issues that both need to be addressed.
Separately from the recall for sticking accelerator pedals, Toyota is in the process of recalling vehicles to address rare instances in which floor mats have trapped the accelerator pedal in certain Toyota and Lexus models (announced November 25, 2009), and is already notifying customers about how it will fix this issue. In the case of vehicles covered by both recalls, it is Toyota’s intention to remedy both at the same time.
Normally, I like to hang out here most of the time, but I bounced over there to get their spin on the alleged problem. If the spirit moves me, I’ll check out how many people are allegedly dead or allegedly injured by Toyota’s documented accelerator issue.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (6:06 pm)@blacksun
You are misinformed. The Prius brake problem only pertains to the 200 Gen3 cars. Your Gen2 is unaffected by THIS particular issue.
WOT
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+3
Feb 6th, 2010 (6:07 pm)Blacksun’s comment was mild compared to some of the suggestions I saw on the NY times comments section. At least he’s not suggesting that the nation apologize to Toyota for failing to teach our kids how to drive.
Honestly, I was shocked.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (6:11 pm)Maybe those were the floor mats that should have been in the car. From the official final Sheriff’s Report:
The accelerator pedal became trapped either in the grooves of the mat or underneath it. The size of the mat with relation to the size of the floor board, did not allow room for easy manipulation to clear the pedal (the SUV mat is much larger than the sedan mat).
I’m just guessing, but based on the report from an earlier driver of the same car who reported that the accelerator had gotten stuck by a very heavy floor mat, it seems likely that the dealer was using heavy duty mats in the loaners in order to protect their interiors.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (6:14 pm)This is what I read on this subject..
Apparently the gear selector is blocked out in that car, during certain times.. another electronically controlled device.
The ignition switch is a button, had to be pressed for 3 seconds for it to shut off the car.. allegedly the driver did not know this.
The brakes were burned to the point that they could not slow down the car anymore.. this is a result of building a car with brakes that are too small (this side of a race car) and an engine that is way too big (as all cars today have). The driver should have stomped on the brakes hard enough to stop the car, apparently he kept modulating them to slow down the car until they overheated and failed completely.
My solution?.. stomp on the brakes until the car stops, have everyone get out and if the engine is still running then have the car come up against a solid barrier that will hold it.
I really think this was a throttle failure, most likely electronic since most adult males would have noticed if the carpet was interfering and adjusted it. Perhaps the driver panicked with all the screaming and praying.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (6:17 pm)30 years later Ford is doing well. There were some bleak years in between.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (6:19 pm)Making an emergency move to avoid hitting something or someone or having a tire blow out can lead to a rollover in an SUV at even modest speeds. I’m not suggesting that a sticky accelerator is a good thing, I’m just suggesting that changing the design and introducing rollover protection for SUVs, which we know would have saved thousands of lives, would be a better use of resources than focusing on a sticky throttle issue which may or may not have caused any serious injuries or death.
It’s just a cost/benefit analysis.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (6:20 pm)Speaking of rollovers, Toyota didn’t recommend any of its vehicles for the IIHS’s new roof strength test. (It apparently helps prevent fatalities in the event of a rollover.) They claimed that the testing was too expensive.
As a result, they got zero cars on the IIHS’s list of top safety picks this year.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/19/toyota-says-safety-report-is-misleading/?scp=6&sq=rollovers%20toyota&st=cse
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/18/ford-and-vw-lead-in-top-safety-picks/
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+6
Feb 6th, 2010 (6:28 pm)BLACK SUN says: And what’s with all the nationalism? Who cares?
———————————————————————————–
That takes the prize as the most ignorant statement of the day.
Every good job we send overseas by buying foreign made products is one less taxpaying job in our country. Just look at our national debt!
ARE YOU AWARE OF THE AWFUL UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBERS in the USA?
And if you think there any true “free enterpise” left anwhere in the world you are wrong. The Japanese have become the a powerful economic force not by making quality products, but by a calculated prohibition of foreign products being sold in their home market.
I find it shameful that you and many other Americans are so irresponsible and uncaring about your fellow countrymen and neighbors who need jobs and are hurting badly.
With freedom comes repsonsibility. Freedom does not mean doing anything you please just because it suits you.
I suggest anyone contemplating a new car to visit your Buick, Ford, Chevy, et.al. dealer. You will see the quality is as good or better than any foreign make.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (6:37 pm)yeah, strangely quiet, isn’t he?
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Feb 6th, 2010 (6:40 pm)My son says he likes the Silver Ice Metallic color Volt.
Wife likes Viridian Joule. She describes the color she wants as a greenish silver.
I like White Diamond Tri-Coat.
__________________________________
What has Frank Weber been up to?
=D~
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (6:44 pm)Since you’re mentioning the doofus word
Hey doofus, the car doesn’t have an ignition switch, it has a button. And pushing it once while driving is ignored by the computer.
Hey doofus, he hit the brakes, as evidenced by the rotors being melted by the sheer heat.
Hey doofus, the car ignores being put in neutral while driving.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (6:50 pm)Nope. Same job. Internet & Fleet Sales. But the big boss did pick up 2 new franchises: Subaru and Suzuki — so now all the eggs are not in just the GM basket….. and I get 3X workload for 1X paycheck.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (6:50 pm)Maybe if less people expected car manufacturers to be the bearers of halos – this would not be a huge calamity. Think of the number of moving vehicle hours driven accident free from mechanical failure. It is likely that this present culture is so peaked to tear apart private sector flaws that this incident has spiraled into a fiasco.
In my opinion this is not the way Volt should find its way to the top. But the fickle, viperous media is quick to turn on those it deems unsupportive of the agenda. Looks like Toyota became the darling which in present culture means they will soon be made the villain. Why is this? Mostly to prop up the shrinking media coffers. As they discover they are no longer the gatekeeper of news and information – they scramble ever faster to generate scarifying scenarios hoping to keep the proletariat glued to the tube and papers.
I am still a strong admirer of Toyota’s decision for the Prius. It alone has proven to skeptical bankers and auto execs that there is a healthy apetite out there for hybrid, conscientious vehicles. The Prius has created a market for the Volt. It is now the time for Volt to pick up where Prius falls short.
It is a bright future for GM and the world’s first EREV.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (6:59 pm)Some sort of record! Third time today I’ve been “shocked and stunned” – and I’m a shrink that had clients whose stories would curl and uncurl your hair! It’s never dull here at gm-volt.com, but today has been pretty impressive.
Thanks for sharing – and I STILL hope that we never reach blacksun status.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 6th, 2010 (7:17 pm)“The T battery represents about one gallon of liquid fuel, or about 40 miles.” Frank Weber
http://www.gmeurope.tv/index.php?mo=0903FrankWeberAmpera_en&channel=opel
=D~
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Feb 6th, 2010 (7:27 pm)I believe that the whole problem with Toyota can be directly attributed to the Jerry Springer show.
If you look back a few years you will find that as jerry’s vewership rose in popularity toy’s sales rose at a shockingly similar rate.
As the median north American iq declined toy’s sales climbed. Perhaps this can be accounted for by the use of subliminal message’s which left a permenant scar on those poor poor people. That would also explain the confounding brand loyalty to toy these same people are showing now. There are so many people infected now that they no longer need Jerry which led to his semi-retirement from tv.
Evil conspiracy, or random coinsidense?
What do u think?
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Feb 6th, 2010 (7:36 pm)The conundrum of the confluence of regenerative transfer to frictional retardation of vehicular inertia whilst intersecting irregularities of the coefficient of friction due to variable road surfaces and pedal pressure will be a problem in more automobiles…
That being said I would like to see more testing to see a reproducible result. You never know when a child may dart out. In my experience the breaking on the Prius feels different. However it is no worse. That is a gen II though.
Many folks feel that this is just an government orchestration to force people to buy cars from Government Motors.
I of course hope that the Volt will be a better car than the Prius, I will ponder the implications of buying a car from Government Motors, however, so far I plan to try. It may a bit of a stretch to get my wife to go along. I think availability will be a key issue. Unless she see it in front of her, it does not exist.
I am not saying Toyota’s are perfect, I do not think they are. The Prius is the fuel mileage champ, and that will be unchanged till the Volt comes out, en mass, available at the local dealer.
I think even Statik may agree to some extent, GM has become Government Motors
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Feb 6th, 2010 (8:08 pm)Really, I have never read or even heard this before. All the experts agree that this is one of the first things you should do. Put the car into neutral if the accellerator sticks. Could you please back up this statement with a credible link?
hawk
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (8:19 pm)Completely off topic, but hell, when else would I get the chance to post this?
Thought of you, Statik, when I saw this ad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xanuq8Hz00
And the man himself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX8eeIit-js&feature=related
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Feb 6th, 2010 (8:20 pm)From what I read here a dealer installs oversize floormats and a family unfortunately dies. I feel sympathy and sorrow. I looked at the all weather floormats in our Prius and they are nowhere near the accelerator. My wive loves those floormats, and I was thinking of buying a set of all weather mats for the HHR. I do not think we Volt fans should belittle Toyota until more evidence actual problems surface.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (8:21 pm)I think the expectation of a single short period of bad press will alter the image of Toyota as making reliable cars is overblown. Look how many years GM put out poor quality vehicles and still enjoyed return customers. Remember how Ford was known – Fix or repair daily – and how Chevy was known – shove it or leave it – but remained atop the market. I owned a 1957 Chevy and it was a truly great car, so even though my 1978 Malibu was a total lemon, I still bought new cars from GM in 86, 91, and 93. But in 2004, I bought my first Toyota and it has been trouble free for 6 years. I have not had to replace the AC compressor like I did on my last three GM vehicles. I have not had to replace my radiator, like I did on my 91 twice. And I have not gone through three transmissions like I did with my 91. To compare the problems people actually experienced with GM products over the years with these problems unsound. Now the exploding Pinto was a problem.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (8:37 pm)This is the proposed procedure to deal with a Toyota stuck accelerator – from the Toyota website:
What if you experience a sticking accelerator pedal while driving?
Each circumstance may vary, and drivers must use their best judgment, but Toyota recommends taking the following actions:
• If you need to stop immediately, the vehicle can be controlled by stepping on the brake pedal with both feet using firm and steady pressure. Do not pump the brake pedal as it will deplete the vacuum utilized for the power brake assist.
• Shift the transmission gear selector to the Neutral (N) position and use the brakes to make a controlled stop at the side of the road and turn off the engine.
• If unable to put the vehicle in Neutral, turn the engine OFF. This will not cause loss of steering or braking control, but the power assist to these systems will be lost.
o If the vehicle is equipped with an Engine Start/Stop button, firmly and steadily push the button for at least three seconds to turn off the engine. Do NOT tap the Engine Start/Stop button.
o If the vehicle is equipped with a conventional key-ignition, turn the ignition key to the ACC position to turn off the engine. Do NOT remove the key from the ignition as this will lock the steering wheel.
HTH,
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 6th, 2010 (9:00 pm)Glad to see Rhys is still working.
Your right though…not many opportunities at all to post those…but heck, it is not like we are going to annoy the author of the piece with a mild threadjack late in the game, (=
I remember having a good chuckle when I first saw Jemaine in a Outback Steakhouse commercial after seeing FoTC at the Comedy Festival a few months before. (Although the dubious Australia/New Zealand thing not withstanding)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6tuSHyCXkU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb-LjF-pLNM
/its like our own club
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (9:10 pm)The reason the Toyota stroy has traction is because 1) this country suddenly has decided that it can’t survive unless it can produce at least some services (like manufacturing stuff – widgets) 2) It’s so unusual or anything bad to be said about either Toyota or Lexus.
Man bites dog. I don’t get the claim that Toyoda offered “nothing of substance.” Perhaps Toyoda was supposed to offer refunds or something? Something that has never been done before. LaHood was just stupid, a common condition for anyone in this braindead administration. An admin of “corpses” apparently, according to our illiterate President.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (9:20 pm)The more software in your car the more software problems you can expect. The Volt already has software problems as you can see in ‘Chevy Volt Test Drive, The Video December 8th, 2009′ at 6:25 someone from GM said ‘my screen is frozen’. I hope GM does not use software from Microsoft.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (9:21 pm)If I have a hero it is Niel Armstrong, The man with the help of this nation set his foot on the moon. I expect that will be remembered a thousand years from now.
I was a bit disappointed with the cancellation of the revival of maned space exploration, however…
Is the Volt Obama’s moonshot???
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Feb 6th, 2010 (9:29 pm)A) that’d be software almost a year old.
B) all the more reason to have a substantial fleet of Volt’s being tested “in the wild”
C) didn’t you post this over a month ago?
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 6th, 2010 (9:31 pm)He didn’t include the words “a day.”
I hope to be saving a gallon a day this time next year.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (9:39 pm)I hope GM is going to surprise us and give the Volt a little more 0-60 mph performance than we are expecting … when Performance mode is selected.
I think that little bit of extra performance could really be something that makes the Volt stand out vs. the competition. A 0-60 mph time of 7.5 seconds would be pretty good for a “green car”. Maybe it’s fairly easy to do it by tweaking the control software. A 7.5 second 0-60 would be way better than the Prius. It’s also a good bit better than the Ford Fusion hybrid. Ford better work on that for the 2011 model.
I think people would like to have the best of both worlds. Electric car Performance mode (a la the Tesla Roadster) if you want to impress your friends on the weekends and frugal Economy mode when you are just sitting in traffic commuting to work and you have to go slow anyway.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (9:44 pm)I know better than to ask (lol), but do you see President Obama as responsible for the Volt?
In any case, I don’t think that they are mutually exclusive (manned space exploration and the Volt). Both *should* happen. I just don’t understand the reasoning for not funding a shuttle replacement. Shrug, what do I know.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 6th, 2010 (9:57 pm)hi Matthew B #130 …
No he didn’t. His statement is from about a year ago. Mr. Weber was assisting a fellow with a demo drive of an early Voltec test car. Remember the one with the orange emergency stop on the dash? He described the fact that having the car heater on would cost a mile or two of initial battery range. The Volt has come a long was since then.
Mr. Weber is one of the more up front and believable members of the GM team.
exact wording: http://garfwod.250free.com/Volt%20drive%20Weber.mp3
=D~
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Feb 6th, 2010 (10:08 pm)I know they said that they tweaked the acceleration downward with the software, so I don’t see why your suggestions couldn’t be implemented. I admit to being a little disappointed when they announced that they had limited the startup velocity. People have already posited that the software would be hacked pretty quickly. It’d be a darn site better to have the mfg do it.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:15 pm)Last year I test drove a Prius. Crash rating had me concerned. Chose the Chevy HHR and it has performed wonderfully. All the negative Toyota news has only supported the decision to continue to put my trust in GM quality.
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:24 pm)Thanks for the link, but I really need to get my hearing checked. I listened to it twice and it sounds like Frank is saying that the 40 miles is “one-quarter of a gallon”. I can’t have heard that right. Wouldn’t that would mean that the *post* AER mileage would be 160 mpg?
I need to check my meds AND get some sleep (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 6th, 2010 (10:25 pm)I do not think we know what is in the “surprise” transmission yet. If it is a two mode whatever there could be the possibility that the gas engine could kick in to give more acceleration as alluded by the lady in the last GM video.
In my mind the Volt is an electric car first, and a hybrid second. Could that change with the flip of a switch?
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Feb 6th, 2010 (10:26 pm)hi Tag #136 …
“You can run 40 miles with about a gallon”
Even way back then I believe he danced around the “sport” mode setting.
+1 for optimism.
=D~
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Feb 6th, 2010 (10:26 pm)That’s excellent feedback. Word-of-mouth is the best advertising there is IMHO.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 6th, 2010 (10:31 pm)The USA can survive just fine without manufacturing. American companies build product wherever it is most profitable to do so.
That’s capitalism.
Manufacturing televisions and most other electronics, most clothing, more than half the cars, etc are all done outside the US. Some of it is done by US companies and the finished product imported (such as cars made in Mexico and Canada).
Without even looking it up, I’ll wager that GM builds and sells more cars outside the US than inside.
Trying to force companies to keep jobs in the US is an (expensive) illusion.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (10:32 pm)LOL, did you listen to it? What did he say that I mis-heard?
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (10:34 pm)Good Question Tag, I will turn it around. Do you think the Volt would have survived without government intervention? If GM had collapsed where would the Volt be? Could some other manufacturer picked up the pieces, would it then be American? It may have been a simple union bailout, but some credit must be given.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (10:36 pm)I can’t remember that I post this before. You are right that testing is important. However with a lot of complex software you cannot test it completely as the number of possible situations is just too big. But at least the most critical software (acceleration, brakes) need to be tested very well.
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Feb 6th, 2010 (10:40 pm)Hmm, I happen to like making things. Not to say paper pushers don’t have their place, however paper represents things. If there are no things being made, eventually there will be no need to push paper, or electrons. We must make things that people will want.
Cheers
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Feb 6th, 2010 (10:45 pm)*Personally*, I think that the Volt project was one of the best assets that GM owned. As such it would have been sold. No idea if it would be American, but I do believe that it would BE.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 6th, 2010 (10:59 pm)At the time I felt the same way, save the taxpayer money and sell the Volt project to Tesla or somebody. But really, would they have had the resources to pull it of? A more logical choice could have been Hyundai? Would it really have been the same Volt?
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:15 pm)No idea if it’d be the same Volt, but it’s the way capitalism works. I think you know that I’m kinda fond of the Volt, but I’ve never been “for” the government bailout of GM. So the bottom line to your recast question is “No, I don’t credit President Obama with the Volt”.
BTW, wasn’t it congress that passed the bailout?
I KNEW I shouldn’t step on the slippery political slope. How about we both celebrate the fact that the Volt is coming soon. “Success has many fathers,….”
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+2
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:27 pm)Very much agreed!
Cheers
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+1
Feb 6th, 2010 (11:30 pm)THANK YOU! You brought a smile to this old dude’s face.
Night all, see you tomorrow.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’ * * * Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Feb 7th, 2010 (12:05 am)Friday February 5, 2010, 6:48 pm EST
CEO Lloyd Blankfein receives $9 million stock bonus for 2009
NEW YORK (AP) — Goldman Sachs Group Inc. CEO Lloyd Blankfein is getting a $9 million stock bonus for 2009, a modest payday by Wall Street standards that appears aimed at quelling criticism of the bank’s compensation practices.
Blankfein’s bonus was less than some had expected.
____________________________________
$9,000,000 bonus seems reasonable.
=D~
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Feb 7th, 2010 (12:42 am)I hope the Volt doesn’t drive and feel like every other GM car I’ve driven. I can’t stand the loose handling and delayed response. I’m renting an Impala and not only does it thirst for almost double the gas as my *late Civic Hy, but it’s view and “comforts” suck. I love the Volt for it’s technology, but it better be a good driving experience and not a frickin’ boat.
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-5
Feb 7th, 2010 (1:06 am)Matthew B,
I said “unless someone can prove brake malfunction….”
I happen to own a Prius, and put it in neutral while driving yesterday. Works just fine. You have to hold the shift lever for a second or two, same with the ignition button.
I’d like to see documentation on the “melted rotors.” Somehow I doubt it. Brakes in good condition will stop any car even under full acceleration. There’s more to the story.
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+1
Feb 7th, 2010 (1:54 am)Ever herd of a brake torque? I guess youvenever owned a high performance vehicle before or you would never make such a silly statement. I smell a troll!
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Feb 7th, 2010 (1:58 am)There are roughly 32 kWh of energy in a gallon of gas. The Volt uses 8 kWh to go 40 miles, Ergo, the Volt uses the kWh equivalent of 1/4 gallon of gas to go 40 miles.
That is all true but it has nothing to do with an MPG number which the Volt will use. That number, and the 230 MPG number GM threw out last year, was based on methodology which measured the actual amount of gasoline used. For that first 40 miles or so that would be zero.
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