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	<title>Comments on: Nissan Taking Shortcut on LEAF Battery: No Thermal Management System</title>
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	<link>http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/28/nissan-taking-shortcut-on-leaf-battery-no-thermal-management-system/</link>
	<description>Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt.</description>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/28/nissan-taking-shortcut-on-leaf-battery-no-thermal-management-system/#comment-176191</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=2802#comment-176191</guid>
		<description>Know how many times the power has gone out in my area in the last 20 years? Once. For about three hours.

I don&#039;t live in a &quot;mild&quot; climate (we get plenty of snow and cold temperatures in Northern Colorado). I&#039;m in a suburban area, like most people in my state. Our power is provided by a rural electric cooperative since we&#039;re technically outside the city.

Generally, electrical power in the US is very reliable. Perhaps you live in an area where multi-day outages are common, but that&#039;s not the case here.

I currently drive a Prius because it&#039;s what I can afford and because the fuel economy is good. If I owned a BEV, I would have to plan some of my trips more carefully (e.g. Boulder to Fort Collins and back is about 100 miles, so I would need to recharge in between).

Worst case? I take the Prius instead. Most families have more than one car.

If your car failing is truly a life or death thing, NO car is acceptable. All cars have the possibility of breaking down. Transmissions, serpentine belts, radiators, and many other items can and do fail on a regular basis. What happens if your BEV runs out of juice and you get stranded? The same thing that happens if your Volt brakes down and you get stranded.

If you want a vehicle that&#039;s more versatile, the Volt might be the choice. But some of us like the idea of a pure BEV that delivers more electric range at a lower price.

The Prius, like the Leaf, uses air cooling for the battery module. The Prius monitors the battery temperature and protects the battery by (for example) reducing charge current at very high temperatures. In the case of the Leaf, this would likely result in sluggish acceleration until the battery pack reaches a more optimal temperature.

Obviously both Tesla and GM feel that a liquid-cooled approach results in better performance. Nissan believes that some performance trade-offs are acceptable to reduce the vehicle&#039;s price.

Remember, though, that maintaining a speed of 65mph requires only about 16kW, which is only 20% of the pack&#039;s rated current. Even if the battery can only deliver 50% of its normal current under adverse conditions, it&#039;s still enough to accelerate (more slowly) up to highway speeds and cruise.

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-172887&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-172887&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ron Hall&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: 
I have limit access to this site, so don’t think I’m rolling over.Your are making points that miss the point of my dscussion. You will obivousily keep arguing down that path, so you win. Your ego needs the boost anyway.In my discussion, electrical power is cut off for a period of time. I look around my neighborhood, I don’t see solar panels on any house. I obviously live in a 3rd world country, because your neighborhood has them everywhere, or is it Mr. Fusion,I forget.Good luck with the Leaf, it sounds like your kind of car. Usefull onlyenough to blow sunshine up mindless peoples a$$es.&#160;&#160;


&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Know how many times the power has gone out in my area in the last 20 years? Once. For about three hours.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t live in a &#8220;mild&#8221; climate (we get plenty of snow and cold temperatures in Northern Colorado). I&#8217;m in a suburban area, like most people in my state. Our power is provided by a rural electric cooperative since we&#8217;re technically outside the city.</p>
<p>Generally, electrical power in the US is very reliable. Perhaps you live in an area where multi-day outages are common, but that&#8217;s not the case here.</p>
<p>I currently drive a Prius because it&#8217;s what I can afford and because the fuel economy is good. If I owned a BEV, I would have to plan some of my trips more carefully (e.g. Boulder to Fort Collins and back is about 100 miles, so I would need to recharge in between).</p>
<p>Worst case? I take the Prius instead. Most families have more than one car.</p>
<p>If your car failing is truly a life or death thing, NO car is acceptable. All cars have the possibility of breaking down. Transmissions, serpentine belts, radiators, and many other items can and do fail on a regular basis. What happens if your BEV runs out of juice and you get stranded? The same thing that happens if your Volt brakes down and you get stranded.</p>
<p>If you want a vehicle that&#8217;s more versatile, the Volt might be the choice. But some of us like the idea of a pure BEV that delivers more electric range at a lower price.</p>
<p>The Prius, like the Leaf, uses air cooling for the battery module. The Prius monitors the battery temperature and protects the battery by (for example) reducing charge current at very high temperatures. In the case of the Leaf, this would likely result in sluggish acceleration until the battery pack reaches a more optimal temperature.</p>
<p>Obviously both Tesla and GM feel that a liquid-cooled approach results in better performance. Nissan believes that some performance trade-offs are acceptable to reduce the vehicle&#8217;s price.</p>
<p>Remember, though, that maintaining a speed of 65mph requires only about 16kW, which is only 20% of the pack&#8217;s rated current. Even if the battery can only deliver 50% of its normal current under adverse conditions, it&#8217;s still enough to accelerate (more slowly) up to highway speeds and cruise.</p>
<blockquote cite="comment-172887">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-172887" rel="nofollow">Ron Hall</a></strong>:<br />
I have limit access to this site, so don’t think I’m rolling over.Your are making points that miss the point of my dscussion. You will obivousily keep arguing down that path, so you win. Your ego needs the boost anyway.In my discussion, electrical power is cut off for a period of time. I look around my neighborhood, I don’t see solar panels on any house. I obviously live in a 3rd world country, because your neighborhood has them everywhere, or is it Mr. Fusion,I forget.Good luck with the Leaf, it sounds like your kind of car. Usefull onlyenough to blow sunshine up mindless peoples a$$es.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: Newark Nissan Oil Change</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/28/nissan-taking-shortcut-on-leaf-battery-no-thermal-management-system/#comment-173596</link>
		<dc:creator>Newark Nissan Oil Change</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=2802#comment-173596</guid>
		<description>Nissan is surely thinking to change the way they design batteries and would probably come up with news one some time soon. similarly the thermal management system would also be looked into as it still is a favorite car manufacturer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nissan is surely thinking to change the way they design batteries and would probably come up with news one some time soon. similarly the thermal management system would also be looked into as it still is a favorite car manufacturer.</p>
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		<title>By: joe</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/28/nissan-taking-shortcut-on-leaf-battery-no-thermal-management-system/#comment-173254</link>
		<dc:creator>joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 01:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=2802#comment-173254</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-172676&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-172676&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;jeffhre&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: 
The ICE, however, will never start automatically when plugged or parked. ICE’s cannot be run without suitable ventilation and clearance from combustibles. A non-stationary unattended ICE is a bad idea. It’s been said that cars are parked 90% of the time and once parked EREV and BEV seem fairly similar.
With a big battery and a plug the same heat an ICE generates can be gained electrically. Though it may affect the longevity of the battery packs.&#160;&#160;


&lt;/blockquote&gt;

While plug-in, the thermal management can be done electrically. No problem there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-172676">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-172676" rel="nofollow">jeffhre</a></strong>:<br />
The ICE, however, will never start automatically when plugged or parked. ICE’s cannot be run without suitable ventilation and clearance from combustibles. A non-stationary unattended ICE is a bad idea. It’s been said that cars are parked 90% of the time and once parked EREV and BEV seem fairly similar.<br />
With a big battery and a plug the same heat an ICE generates can be gained electrically. Though it may affect the longevity of the battery packs.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>While plug-in, the thermal management can be done electrically. No problem there.</p>
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		<title>By: Whistleteeth</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/28/nissan-taking-shortcut-on-leaf-battery-no-thermal-management-system/#comment-173201</link>
		<dc:creator>Whistleteeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=2802#comment-173201</guid>
		<description>Rediculous!  I can drive from the beach in San Francisco where it&#039;s 75 degrees F in February to Lake Tahoe where it&#039;s 20 degrees F in 3 hours with a GM Volt!  It&#039;s why I live in California.  Surf in the morning, snowboard in the after noon.  How could Nissan possibly not manage to compete with that?  Sounds like they&#039;re building a glorified golf cart.  Why would they bother?  And for the record, I don&#039;t lease anything.  I buy, I sell, I don&#039;t borrow.  With Toyota in the news about their big accelerator problems GM is really turning the quality corner as the new leader.  I agree with the very first post on this list &quot;you never get a second chance at a first impression&quot;.  I really believe GM will completely dominate the electric car market if they can sell this car for uner $30K.  For years and years... ideed decades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rediculous!  I can drive from the beach in San Francisco where it&#8217;s 75 degrees F in February to Lake Tahoe where it&#8217;s 20 degrees F in 3 hours with a GM Volt!  It&#8217;s why I live in California.  Surf in the morning, snowboard in the after noon.  How could Nissan possibly not manage to compete with that?  Sounds like they&#8217;re building a glorified golf cart.  Why would they bother?  And for the record, I don&#8217;t lease anything.  I buy, I sell, I don&#8217;t borrow.  With Toyota in the news about their big accelerator problems GM is really turning the quality corner as the new leader.  I agree with the very first post on this list &#8220;you never get a second chance at a first impression&#8221;.  I really believe GM will completely dominate the electric car market if they can sell this car for uner $30K.  For years and years&#8230; ideed decades.</p>
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		<title>By: mark yates</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/28/nissan-taking-shortcut-on-leaf-battery-no-thermal-management-system/#comment-173067</link>
		<dc:creator>mark yates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 17:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=2802#comment-173067</guid>
		<description>Isnt the reason the VOLT has 4 seats is because the battery is T shaped? I dont know the schematics of the LEAF but maybe they put the battery under the seats and boot and made it square? The LEAF doesnt have a fuel tank.
Still think the VOLT is by far the best option - but would prefer to see it with a 0.9 litre 60mpg engine (ala the Smart Car) 1.6 litres is too big for a generator.
Shrink the engine, shrink the fuel tank, lighten the car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isnt the reason the VOLT has 4 seats is because the battery is T shaped? I dont know the schematics of the LEAF but maybe they put the battery under the seats and boot and made it square? The LEAF doesnt have a fuel tank.<br />
Still think the VOLT is by far the best option &#8211; but would prefer to see it with a 0.9 litre 60mpg engine (ala the Smart Car) 1.6 litres is too big for a generator.<br />
Shrink the engine, shrink the fuel tank, lighten the car.</p>
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