Flint Engine Plant Equipment Being Installed
With each passing day, week, and month the excitement builds as the Chevy Volt eases towards mass production later this year.
Earlier this month GM opened its dedicated battery assembly plant capable of producing enough packs to build tens of thousands of Chevy volt’s per year.
Another critical component of the car is its gas-engine range-extending generator.
The engine will be a 4 cylinder 1.4 L Ecotec powerplant, which will also be put to use in the Chevy Cruze. That car with a turbocharger is expected to acheve up to 40 MPG on the highway.
These engines will be built in Flint Michigan at a facility called Flint Engine South.
This week that plant began installing the equipment that will be used to build the engines, and will be ready to start mass prodution in about six months.
“We have a lot of work to do, but we’re getting there. We should be able to start running parts in July,” said Paul Matney a team leader on the production line.
Chevrolet Volt assembly will begin in Detroit-Hamtramck in March, so the inital three to four months of preproduction validation builds will have to reply on engines imported from Austria, until the Flint facility is fully up and running.
Old equipment is still currently being moved out and most of the new equipment has yet to arrive. The facility is currently producing the 3.6 L V-6 engines in use in the Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse, GM Acadia and Cadillac CTS.
“Our goal is to get this up and running as fast as possible,” said GM spokesman Tom Wickham about the new tooling.
GM is investing $202 million to retool the plant to produce the Volt and Cruze engines.
Source (MLive)
This entry was posted on Sunday, January 24th, 2010 at 8:33 am and is filed under Generator, Production. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+28
Jan 24th, 2010 (8:37 am)Indy 500, 2015….
“Gentlemen…..Start Your Generators!”
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (8:48 am)It sounds like the facility is changing over from building the V6′s to these new I4s. I hope they are still gaining some jobs up there and not just changing engine types.
+4
Jan 24th, 2010 (8:58 am)Here’s even more reason to get Volts off the assembly line and into US garages:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8476395.stm
+6
Jan 24th, 2010 (8:59 am)” Quality Quality Quality”
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:01 am)The news that GM will be building the Cruze and Volt internal combustion engines at Flint Engine South is old news. I did not see where it said GM would be building the 53 KW electrical power generators also at that plant. Did I miss it?
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:02 am)So if they are retooling for the new engines, where are they going to build the generators? You know the thing with all the copper wire windings.
+5
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:04 am)These stories of more oil being found (or maybe more oil being found) are factors that help keep oil prices lower. This will unfortunately make the Volt a tougher sell.
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:34 am)Reminder:
Back on the 16th there was the following thread on GM producing electric motors….
http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/16/gm-to-open-electric-motor-plant/
….another older related thread….
http://gm-volt.com/2009/11/09/engineering-design-of-the-chevy-volts-two-electric-motors/
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:37 am)OPEC member’s quotas are based on reserves. This is why there is so much skepticism about actual reserves in countries like Saudi Arabia that don’t allow outsiders access to study or verify their reserves. Under these circumstances, I find it hard to believe the USGS numbers when Venezuela doesn’t.
+3
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:39 am)The new oil is more difficult to recover so the price will go up.
The electric heat in the Volt will cause the range to go down, as the heat is not a byproduct of burning oil. So I wonder if the Volt could have a wood pellet heat option.
It would be cool to have a little hearth where that big lever shifty thing is. I truly think that shifty thing is just taking up space for future expansion.
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:39 am)On Sunday January 24, 2010, 8:01 am EST
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran planned next year’s budget based on an oil price of $60 per barrel, nearly double the price from the last year, the official news agency reported on Sunday, indicating rising optimism over energy prices.
Last year, the parliament approved a budget based on $37.5 per barrel for the fiscal year ending in March, reflecting the steep drop in prices that severely impacted the economy. About 80 percent of Iran’s foreign revenue comes from oil exports.
=D~
+2
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:40 am)These stories are poor attempts created to discourage the manufacture of oil displacing products like the Volt. What does it mean to a Volt owner if gas goes to $1 per gallon? They’ll end up spending even less on gas each year.
NPNS!
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:41 am)The Volt’s electric generator and traction motor are currently being built by a supplier. In the future, GM plans to bring electric motor/generator production in-house.
More info here:
http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/16/gm-to-open-electric-motor-plant/
+5
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:42 am)“Flint Engine Plant Begins Installing Equipment to Build Chevy Volt Engines”
Like the rythm of Ravel’s Bolero, the Volt development pulses inexorably forward…ahhh…Bo Derek…ooops, excuse me, I mean the Volt production will be a beautiful thing.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:01 am)It’s not about me or you, it’s about us. Dependance on foreign oil affects us all.
If gas goes down below $2 / gallon and stays there for any length of time, alternative transportation will take a huge hit, and companies will be reluctant to invest in this again.
+23
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:04 am)And so begins the rebirth of the great state of Michigan.
Has America finally turned a corner regarding its foolish obsession with foreign cars?
We MUST produce the things we need for living on our own soil or we will be doomed as a nation.
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:13 am)+1 my friend. Got a chuckle out of that!
Does anyone know if they will continue to make the 3.6 L
engines for the Lambdas in this factory or will they moved to another facility? Just curious.
+2
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:14 am)or
“Gentlemen….. Press ‘START!’” (lol)
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+2
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:17 am)I’d definitely join you in that wish!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:24 am)The problem is for the Volt sales guy who loses his ability to show any financial benefit of owning the Volt.
At $1 per gallon, the Volt would simply become a toy for green people. The typical customer sees the Volt as a Cruze with a $20,000 electric option that would allow him to save 1 gallon of gas per driving day. That won’t sell.
$1 gas is not coming back, however, and the math will be different. Gas price will be a factor on the adoption of EV’s.
+2
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:29 am)At this point, lower gas prices aren’t quite the threat they once were – so much has been invested in R&D. The odds of gas prices ACTUALLY going sub-$2/gal probably make it moot anyway. With the mood of the nation, I think people will still buy them. JMO
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+3
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:32 am)Electrification has a lot of benefits unrelated to the cost of fuel.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:34 am)I hope you are right but my non-scientific informal pols of movers and shakers in my area tells me that electrics will not be an easy sell to the general population. There is some skepticism in general and then there are the financial issues.
There will be plenty of magazine articles spelling out the additional costs for electrics and EREVs and the time for payback. If gas were $2 per gallon, you would never recoup the initial cost in the life of a typical car. This will be widely publicized and many will be affected.
The Volts limited numbers will sell anyway for two years. I am thinking more in the long term when production is ramped up and GM is wishing to move more than 100,000 units per year.
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:36 am)Our posts passed each other. I agree completely. I am just giving my opinion based on the reality that I observe in my area. Not everyone cares about some of the other benefits.
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:36 am)Ahhh, fond memories of Bo’s slow motion run on the beach. Truly a film classic. Let’s look forward to the day when the launch of the Volt is seen as a point in history that’s truly memorable too – and it won’t be LONG!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:36 am)LOL, I love this wood pellet heat option
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:38 am)Hi Dave G, thanks for the link. Clearly the traction motor (111 kw) is an MG (motor generator) set, acting as a motor driving the wheels, and acting as a generator when during deceleration, the wheels drive the motor, generating power to put back into the battery, hence “regenerated power” from braking.
But info on the 53 kw Generator turned by the ICE is not easy to find, at least by me.
If we assume the generator is used to bring the ICE up to speed, acting as a starter motor, then it too is another MG set.
Totally changing subjects now, and complete off topic and perhaps off planet, I have come up with a new motto for Volt.com. “GCUAPO”
Are you ready (and my apologies to another of our posters who I partially stole this from):
Get Charged Up And Press On.
Go Volt
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:39 am)I totally agree, but I just can’t imagine OPEC opening the floodgates to reduce price for more than a year. Even when they agree on quotas, members cheat.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:58 am)There is some great information about the Volt at the Washington Auto Show today. Several great videos to view. Twitter probably has the same.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
-1
Jan 24th, 2010 (11:16 am)The Orinoco field mentioned in Venezuela is tar sands. The article says it’s great because it’s got more “oil” than Saudi Arabia.. But I think that’s a little misleading. We don’t want tar, we want the light sweet crude! That’s the good stuff. The middle east is king of liquid crude reserves and they always will be.
This is a last resort, it’s the worst possible source of oil. The fact that these deposits are being called sagnificant really underscores the situation we are facing. I dont think anyone would be excited to cook dump trucks full of dirt unless they had scoured the globe for more of the good stuff, and come up empty.
I’m 100% on board the electric future. Go volt!!
Jan 24th, 2010 (11:33 am)Only if we are stupid enough to allow that to happen. Give me the Volt any day!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+2
Jan 24th, 2010 (11:34 am)I wonder if the Volt’s Electric Drive System could be tweaked to provide the minimum MPH to be used as a Pace Car at Indy.
Back in 1979, I purchased one of the Mustang Indy Pace Car replicas that Ford cranked out. Mine had the Turbo 2.3L 4 cylinder but Ford also built some with the 302 V8.
At the time as I recall, the actual custom built V8 Pace Car’s used had to be able to maintain 125 MPH around the track.
If technically possible, I can think of no better place to showcase the “electrification of the automobile” than as a Pace Car at Indy in 2011.
Perhaps Lyle could start a petition drive.
Jan 24th, 2010 (11:51 am)I agree Tag In fact I think the trend to EV is unstoppable now!
Did you see the video on Facebook about OnStar and what the new electronic interface means to the industry? There’s one by Nick Poder and another by ARtvLive.com that recognizes OnStar’s new technology that is charging how we interface with our car. It is coming out on the Volt first which will get customers into the show room.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (11:52 am)It’d probably be the single best way to get rid of the “golf cart” mentality re electric vehicles. I thought that I’d read here that the max speed was slightly over 100 mph, but that may be a software limited cap. Anyone know?
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 24th, 2010 (11:59 am)I spend 98% of my online time here, so I don’t “do” Facebook (lol). I’d like to read the posts you mention though, so is there a way for you to post a link here? (the other 2% of my internet time is either following links from here or reading emails).
TIA,
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:05 pm)The Volt with a “wood pellet” heat option. That is hilarious !
You could use OnStar to monitor for “clinkers” in the fire pot and send you a text.
Did you know that the Volvo C30 Electric prototype has an Ethanol heater ? I am not kidding.
I remember that Volkswagen offered optional “White Gas” / Coleman Fuel” heaters in the old days.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:06 pm)Like Laura has said many times to comments like yours, there’s more to consider than just the price of gasoline. The long term effects of pollution on our health, the cost of maintaining petroleum supply lines to the U.S., and the cost of vehicle maintenance are a few that most be factored in. I hate to say this about Americans but we are often short sighted in our decisions. The cost-factor of electric power for the Volt will far outweigh the cost of gasoline IMHO anyway you look at it.
The Volt will get market penetration in a very short time! did you view the videos from the Wahington DC Auto show on OnStar. If you haven’t go to:
http://www.facebook.com/chevroletvolt?v=wall
There are several videos but the one I referenced is by ArtvLive.com. What the Volt offers its owner is new inter-connectivity to their vehicle.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:11 pm)Sorry! I ment to include it in the comment;
http://www.facebook.com/chevroletvolt?v=wall
It’s the one by ARtvLive.com on Facebook.com about three quaters of the way down the page. Also there are several other good videos to view.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:18 pm)The electric motor/generator of the Volt can not produce sufficient revoltutions for it to reach 125mph. I saw somewhere that the motor has a top speed of about 110 mph.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:19 pm)I wonder what it will take to get NASCAR to go down this path? It would go a long way to get attention on EV’s. I can see it now, commentators speculating about which team will have the advantange under various circumstances because X has BEV, but Y has a range extender, and who can afford a stop for a battery swap, etc.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:19 pm)32K didn’t stop people from buying the Prius… which only gets 26mpg in the winter months. The VOLT will still have a all electric range of approx. 30 miles which is still more than enough for most of the commuters and myself. It’s certainly good to hear about so many other mfrs who are clambering to catch the VOLT. Now all we have to do is set up solar cell/wind /hydro plants to generate the hydrogen for the fuel cells … then we will really make a dent in OIL. If the VOLT with the ICE gets 40 miles all electric… what does a VOLT without the ICE get? How much can they cut the cost with the savings of removing the ICE?
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:21 pm)Good … I like it!… I did hear talk of a all electric race … this is getting interesting!
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:27 pm)One of my step brothers has a furnace that burns corn. A miniature version of that would work.
-1
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:31 pm)They took the governor off a EV1 and it went 200mph… I drove one for 150 miles … at 80mph …it was like going 50 in most cars. Effortless power … no transmission… no gasoline… etc ..etc. and remember… GM is the one heading this revolution right here.. in the US! And also remember… the VOLT will be kept out of all other major auto markets of the world while they come here freely and dump their products.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:33 pm)An electric car race would be as quiet as a golf tournament.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:37 pm)Here’s quarterly data from the US Energy Information Agency: http://tonto.eia.doe.go
Jan-March 2008
World Oil Demand: 86.86 Million Barrels/Day
World Oil Supply: 85.76 Million Barrels/Day
Average Price of Regular: $3.16
April-June 2008
World Oil Demand: 86.31 Million Barrels/Day
World Oil Supply: 85.62 Million Barrels/Day
Average Price of Regular $3.88:
July-Sept 2008
World Oil Demand: 85.28 Million Barrels/Day
World Oil Supply: 85.26 Million Barrels/Day
Average Price of Regular: $3.89
Oct-Dec 2008
World Oil Demand: 84.58 Million Barrels/Day
World Oil Supply: 84.91 Million Barrels/Day
Average Price of Regular: $2.32
Jan-March 2009
World Oil Demand: 83.40 Million Barrels/Day
World Oil Supply: 83.46 Million Barrels/Day
Average Price of Regular: $1.94
April-June 2009
World Oil Demand: 83.67 Million Barrels/Day
World Oil Supply: 83.54 Million Barrels/Day
Average Price of Regular: $2.40
July-Sept 2009
World Oil Demand: 84.31 Million Barrels/Day
World Oil Supply: 84.45 Million Barrels/Day
Average Price of Regular: $2.69
The quarterly average price of gasoline peaked in the 3rd Quarter of CY2008 at $3.89/gallon for reformulated regular grade.. For this quarter, world demand was 85.28 Million Barrels day, and world supply was 85.26 Million Barrels a day. (Note Demand actually peaked in the 1st Quarter of CY2008). However, by the first quarter of CY2009 (six months time) world daily demand dropped to 83.40 Million Barrels a day, (a difference of only 1.87 Million Barrel/day) and the price of regular gasoline for that quarter dropped to $1.94/gallon (a difference of $1.95/gallon).
Today, Chinese, Japanese, European and American automotive manufactures all have plans to offer EVs, EREVs and Hybrids. So the question is, how fast will these vehicles penetrate the market, and what will it do to the world daily demand for oil? From the data above, a difference of only 2% (1.87 Million Barrels a day) can cause a price crash. Will the market price of oil will stay high over the next 5 years?
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:49 pm)If EREV or BEV racing were to occur, the “pitting” process could be quite hairy.
I can imagine mandatory “sound systems” on board each car so drivers / pit crews can hear the other cars when close.
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:52 pm)Agreed. We should have done something long term about our energy problems starting in the early 70′s when it became clear that Oil could cause big problems for our economy. If I were king for a day I would raise the federal gas tax a little to ensure that our country starts to steer towards other sources of energy.
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:54 pm)Yup, saw that about the Volvo, plus I had an old VW bus with the gas heater. never used it though. I would keep an ice scrapper in the defrost vent, and would use it to scrape the inside of the windshield.
I consider the heater on the Prius, “tepid” it does not blow much in the way of warm air unless I go up a long hill. It is a good thing I keep it in a garage on a frosty morning.
So why not heat with wood pellets? warm & green. Top it off everyday when plugging in. Then in the summer remove the little furnace and replace it with a large ice cube, of the cool variety.
Jan 24th, 2010 (12:57 pm)Thanks! Nice videos.
Soon. Very soon (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 24th, 2010 (1:09 pm)I road in a stock car… when the engine starts you can’t hear anything but the extremely loud engine anyway… let alone the car next to you… electrics do make enough noise…especially if they are high performance… sort of like the whine of a jet engine. .. I’d like to see how they do against the ICE in a race.
Jan 24th, 2010 (1:12 pm)I was surfing the net looking for info on electric motor suppliers to GM (in regard to a few posts above) and I ran across this article on a recent announcement from the government and Pres. Obama on grants for electric vehicle advancement: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2009/08/68496247/1
and in the article is a link to a complete listing of DOE grants:
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/recovery/pdfs/battery_awardee_list.pdf
This gives me very mixed feelings. Guys, these are handouts. They are in the Billions of dollars. With that kind of money flying around it seems like GM could charge $10,000 for a Volt and make a profit. Also there is a $100 million grant for Nissan Leaf’s. Here I thought that the free market was blessing us with this technology.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (1:13 pm)As VOLT enters production this forum turns to who’s doing what where. There’s the new battery mfg. facility, the electric motor plant just announced, and now the ER ICE plant. We cheer GM keeping these jobs in Mich. … Whitacre would be elected Gov if he activates ready-to-go Fremont Mummi plant and its 6000 skilled in California. Regarding the ER ICE – With the Cruze (needs a better name-sounds like something hard and scaly) turbo doing 40 mpg, certainly VOLT does better. Note to GM leadership: it’ll be oohs & ahhs with a 500+ mile range. And that’s absolutely achievable with this engine.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (1:22 pm)10% official unemployment and deepest recession since the great depression. Yet the crude is 4 times the price considered expensive a decade ago.
What part of that looks cheap to you ?
Jan 24th, 2010 (1:27 pm)So the engine for the Volt is kind of an off the shelf item used for the Cruze. In the future, if the numbers justify it, will there be a new engine built from the ground up for the Volt and if so, what would the ideal be? Or, is this engine 90% already there in terms of whats needed ie: horsepower, weight, etc?
Thanks.
Jan 24th, 2010 (1:32 pm)If the second generation Volt can comes down in price, about $5,000, and does about 60 MPG in the ICE mode, I believe it will be a huge success no matter how low the gas prices gets. As we already know, if anything, it will go up rather than go down. in price.
Jan 24th, 2010 (1:37 pm)What caused prices to fall are not just demand destruction – it was also the credit squeeze. And then there was the speculative aspect of it. As the recession hit – the traders saw the writing on the wall and shorted oil.
For those who are not aware of peak oil check out Jeff Rubin’s book “Why Your World Is About to Get a Whole Lot Smaller: Oil and the End of Globalization”.
Everytime the oil prices go high – it will cause a recession driving down the prices. So we will have a highly variable gas price in the future (with higher low points and average).
http://netenergy.theoildrum.com/node/5304
http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5574
Jan 24th, 2010 (1:38 pm)Oil is still a cheap source of energy compared to other sources. A gallon of gas has over 33 KWh of potential and you can carry it in a plastic jug and buy it for less than $3 (compares to the price of bottled water). Nothing really compares to some of the properties of oil.
Of course there are other considerations. But from a pure energy standpoint, oil is pretty impressive.
Remember, all of the hoopla with the Volt (400 Lbs of battery, possibly 8-10K a piece) is simply to save 1 gallon of gas per day of driving.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (1:50 pm)True. Oil is a unique natural resource – that makes it all the more tragic that it is burnt …
Hmmmm not really. If price was the only consideration we would all be driving Kia/ Hyundai.
Volt or Leaf will not make economic sense for quite sometime (just as Luxus/BMW don’t). Currently it is essentially tool to achieve larger ideological objectives like
- Reduce foreign oil consumption and transfer of wealth
- Reduce Environmental impact
Until peak oil forces OECD countries to ration gas – people who are not worried about larger ideological questions won’t bother with volt or leaf.
Jan 24th, 2010 (1:52 pm)That depends on your current vehicle’s mpg. My Jeep gets ~20 mpg, so I’d save, on average, 2 gallons per day – TWICE as much
Multiply that by 365 days/year. Then multiply that by the number of EREV’s on the road ten years from now. Granted, the initial impact is small, but if we don’t start *somewhere* we’ll never wean our country away from gasoline. (and yes, gas *is* impressive).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:02 pm)With a 10 to 15 minute recharge time after every 40 miles or so, it would be a long race day. Especially for 500 miles.
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:22 pm)Well, if I were that salesman (and I’m not a salesman by any stretch), I’d probably say something like:
“…Well, will gas be a $1 a gallon next week? Next month? Next year?”
A Volt purchase is an investment in the mitigation of oil price volatility: which will only get worse with time, whatever the price on any given day.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:24 pm)Id like to see that same 16KW pack in a silverado giving it what 20Miles ER since the truck in not twice as heavy as the volt it should get at least half the MilesPerCharge.
+10
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:28 pm)I know I will. I will buy because I hate those bastards from 9-11.
I hate their scumbag governments who turn a blind eye to the things going on in their own country. I hate how they treat their own women.
I love this country and want to see us succeed without the use of middle eastern oil.
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:30 pm)Audience: “ooOOoo.” (clap clap clap)
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:31 pm)Here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrHXdM9f13k
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:32 pm)As much as I would love to see this happen, I can’t imagine it being the case for a couple of decades. An Indy 500 on BEV would be very interesting but unlikely anytime soon.
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:36 pm)Price of oil goes up
Price of batteries goes down
People start switching to electric cars
Demand for oil goes down
Price of oil goes down
Some people switch back to ICE cars
Price of batteries continues to lower
Eventually it makes more financial sense to buy EVs.
(note: a lot of this back & forth, up & down could be controlled by the Government w/a gas tax to control the price of oil and/or continued incentives for EVs)
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:39 pm)If the Prius has gone more than a mile or two, you ought to have ample heat. You might have a stuck-open thermostat, or, the coolant proportion may not be quite right if it is slightly too thick for your climate area. (I think someone else described that problem last year). The inlet to the radiator ought **not** be hot or warm when the temperature guage *first* starts to move up.
If the thermostat is stuck open, it could ruin the catalytic converter by causing it to not “light up” soon enough. (The heat of the coolant may be “thrown away” too soon out the radiator, preventing heat from building up in the exhaust ultimately, for the needed heat at 675 degrees soon enought to cause the catalyst to light up). And, it would waste lots of gas.
Regarding the engine plant: The new engine production equipment looks really impressive, and, is another solid benchmark towards production day.
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:42 pm)That’s what people said in the summer of 2008. We have to realize that gas prices are volatile.
And even if gas prices never go below $2/gal again, the fact that they could affects the amount of investment in alternative transportation. For example, would you invest 1/3 of your retirement account in alternative transportation? If there was a floor tax (minimum price) on oil or gas, would that affect your decision?
The amount of R&D investment we have so far is only the beginning – a drop in the bucket. To make EREVs go mainstream, we’ll need a lot more investment. And for investors, the risk of low gas prices is far from a moot point…
Exactly!
If EREVs catch on in a big way, then other countries will follow, and world oil demand will decrease, which could easily lead to cheap gas again, which could slow the pace of EREV adoption.
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:42 pm)That was really fun to watch. Thanks for posting that.
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:44 pm)Lyle updates us on Hamtramck (thank you) as follows
Chevrolet Volt assembly will begin in Detroit-Hamtramck in March, so the inital three to four months of preproduction validation builds will have to reply on engines imported from Austria, until the Flint facility is fully up and running.
Old equipment is still currently being moved out and most of the new equipment has yet to arrive. The facility is currently producing the 3.6 L V-6 engines in use in the Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse, GM Acadia and Cadillac CTS.
Is there enough time between now and then to get Hamtramck upfitted and tested so that it can build Volts in March? On a production line with so many new components and necessarily new modes of assembly, it seems like a short time to me.
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:44 pm)OT, but maybe they will build engines for this in Flint too
The GMC Granite Concept and the Audi A8 were awarded top honors at the 2010 EyesOn Design Awards at the North American International Auto Show (NAIAS).
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:46 pm)I would like to see some kind of EREV racing league. Real technology gains might be made by solving some of these practical aspects. I’d expect the generators to run all the time, and be limited by kwh output; this would force battery technology to advance for competitive advantage. Possibly a car would receive a jolt from a connector to help battery reserve for a few miles’ worth of power whenever the car pits for new rubber. This would make for a quick sprint when exiting the pits before settling back ‘into a groove.’
Take a look at kdawg’s video (#66). How long would it be before someone compared one of these electric racing league cars against an all-ice NASCAR racer on a track somewhere?
“Win on Sunday, sell on Monday.”
… I wonder if a Le Mans start would include unplugging the car?
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:47 pm)I also found this interesting. Maybe an EREV Truck?
(Sorry Noel, they will prob still final-assembly them in Mexico)
——————————
GM Plans Multi-Million Dollar Refresh to Truck Lineup
GM has approved a major update of its full-size pickups, an overhaul that had been delayed during last year’s bankruptcy.
GM plans to spend several hundred million dollars updating the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups. The trucks, which were last updated in 2006, are two or three years away from showrooms.
“Trucks are still a huge portion of the market. Not everyone can drive a (Chevrolet) Cruze,” auto analyst Aaron Bragman, told The Detroit News. “There is still a lot of money to be made. You’ve got to keep your products fresh or competitors will eat your lunch.”
Read a news report here: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100114/BIZ/1140419/1001/biz
Jan 24th, 2010 (2:56 pm)Electrify the track. Have each car dangle copper DC brushes that touch the track. Voilà! 100% scale SLOT CARS.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (3:09 pm)Yes, exactly. If we didn’t have to import oil, and there were no environmental issues, then oil would be great. If only there was some other fuel that had the benefits of oil without the problems…
Well, there is! It’s called cellulosic ethanol, and its real now:
http://www.coskata.com/facilities/?source=568A3D3C-AACF-4D95-B297-7264DD2C17B5
The problem is that only 35% of current gasoline consumption can be replaced without affecting our food supply.
Hmmm, if only there was something else that had the potential to replace 65% of our gasoline consumption…
1-2 gallons per day may not sound like much, but it ends up being around 80% of our current gasoline consumption. And by 2020, batteries should cost 1/4 of what they do today. EREVs are going to be a BIG deal.
Jan 24th, 2010 (3:09 pm)I’m sorry, but the thought of an electric car with a fire onboard for heat just strikes me as absurd. The 21st century needs help from 2010 BC?
It seems to me that the answer is Co-Generation, a generator makes electricity for the car and heat for the driver. In cold weather, you run the engine constantly (and incidentally, this is just what the Volt is said to do).
A wood-pellet burner might be something which could be developed for a camper or RV (as an alternative to bottled gas), but I just can’t see it in a small to medium size car.
Jan 24th, 2010 (3:12 pm)I would guess that this might make passing more difficult.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (3:15 pm)OK. Good News. Now can anyone tell me how to pronounce “Hamtramck”?
Jan 24th, 2010 (3:20 pm)Even if the timetable for electrification of the automobile outstrips even our wildest imaginations, it will still take years before EV penetration begins to affect gas prices. Don’t forget that oil is used for a great many things, and ICE powered cars will likely remain mainstream alternatives for decades.
Jan 24th, 2010 (3:28 pm)There is no governor on the Volt motor/genreator. The top speed of the Volt is limited by the motor and can only go around 110 mph max. GM limits the motor to 100 mph by software.
The only major market in the world that keeps GM out is Japan and GM has not mentioned them in the slate of foreign markets for the Volt.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (3:37 pm)Not having any idea I think the thing for us to do is to say “Hamtram” and pretend that it is insider slang
Jan 24th, 2010 (3:37 pm)I hear you, my friend. Very Soon; Amen!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (3:40 pm)Okay, how’s this for a practical EV-heating suggestion? Bear with me for a moment: Imagine carefully measuring the amount of thermal energy that has to be removed from a glass of water to lower it’s temperature from 33 to 32 degrees. The glass is still filled with water, even though 32 degrees Fahrenheit is the liquid’s freezing point. You would have to remove about 200 times as much thermal energy to turn water at 32 degrees into ice at 32 degrees. The energy tied up in phase change is far greater than merely heating or cooling a substance within a single phase.
There are many materials which change phases at relatively warm temperatures, including room temperature. These include some salts, waxes and liquid solutions.
Suppose you had a block of this phase-change material in your car, with passages through it to increase surface area. When the car is plugged in, a small resistance heater could store thermal energy as the phase change in the block. When driving, air would be directed through the passages to pick up heat energy, as the material’s state gradually changes to it’s ‘cold’ phase.
In an EREV, the conventional heater could use the engine’s waste heat to re-warm the phase-change block to provide warmth when the engine stops (as it will as you drive).
Just a thought.
Jan 24th, 2010 (3:51 pm)Jackson, I’m guessing the quips about the on-board pellet stove was a joke, whadayathink?
Jan 24th, 2010 (3:52 pm)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamtramck,_Michigan
Next question will be:
What’s a paczki and how do you pronounce it?
Jan 24th, 2010 (3:58 pm)Not sure whether you had seen these videos yet, PJK, or that you wanted to go to the track and see an EV race an ICE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXqYbNEiW0Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fmy4tWvr8c
White Zomby is awesome.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jan 24th, 2010 (4:06 pm)We were told (some time ago), that a future generation Volt would have a ground-up designed-for-EREV engine which has a displacement closer to 1 liter. I don’t recall any news on this, recently. Priority for this may depend on how big a problem CS-mode mpg is (or isn’t).
When Li/Ion cells are made which are capable of enduring many more cycles, the buffer zone between what the driver demands and the generator supplies can be enlarged; allowing a smaller engine to come closer to the car’s average power requirement. This may be the limiting factor.
Jan 24th, 2010 (4:28 pm)These electric race cars have drop in batteries that the pit crews can exchange very fast!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
-8
Jan 24th, 2010 (4:38 pm)This doesn’t make a whole lot of sense from a cost standpoint. Must be some union coerced deal to save a couple of jobs in USA. Good to hear GM will soon be building more large manufacturing plants in China. This is where ALL future cost-effective plants should go. Obama just trying to save some fat lazy union slob job that’s all. Politics sucks egg. Good business decisions are made in China these days. The sooner you American realize this the better for your own survival. At least some people within GM realize this and have announce future GM growth in China.
Please be advised that China recently overtook the US as the world’s largest car sales market. This will only increase. Deal with it. Trying to protect a couple of union jobs is not good business sense, just an unwise and temporary move for political gain. Peace out.
Jan 24th, 2010 (4:41 pm)deleted
Jan 24th, 2010 (4:44 pm)I thought so at first, but the discussion got pretty long for a joke. Sometimes it can be hard to tell when someone is joking around here.
There are still people who show up here touting hydrogen if you can believe it; and most of them sound heart-attack serious, too.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (4:45 pm)I agree. Moving forward, gasoline will likely rise in price and batteries will likely fall in price. Hopefully our government has a plan to make electricity cheap and abundant and from our own sources.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (4:51 pm)Seem to me that the Volt is idea in this situation. Perchance the price of gasoline skyrockets, we can use electricity from the grid. But if gasoline drops to $1.00 (!?!) so be it, 78% of the driving population will never burn any gasoline and those that exceed 40 mile per day get to drive that extra mileage at very good cost! Give me the Volt over an ICE any day. The price of the Volt beginning with GEN II will be realistic and affordable for the average person IMHO.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jan 24th, 2010 (4:56 pm)Intersting quote from Toyota…. 2015.. hmmm….
—————————————–
Toyota today at the Detroit auto show unveiled the FT-CH hybrid electric concept that likely will become a smaller version of its iconic Prius hybrid sedan.
It will also launch a new lithium-ion battery plug-in electric car in the United States in 2012, said Jim Lentz, president of Toyota Motor Sales.
To cover all technology bases, Lentz said Toyota is “fully committed” to bringing a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle to market by 2015.
+5
Jan 24th, 2010 (5:04 pm)I hope they pour all of their money into that one….
Jan 24th, 2010 (5:14 pm)http://www.eaaev.org/eaalinks.html#organizations
is a good website for all sorts of information. Under EV Related Organizations, they list the National Electric Drag Racing Association (NEDRA):
http://www.nedra.com/
The races they sanction appear to be short distance such as quarter mile, etc. However, see this site about electric racers as Le Manns:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/05/electric-car-makes-le-mans-racing-greener/
Read and enjoy.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jan 24th, 2010 (5:19 pm)… it is when the $5 per day is going into the pocket of a hostile adversary. President Obama should skim .05% of the defense budget to offer even better purchase incentives on EV.
Or, should we buy another 10,000 shrapnel jackets at $1000 each ($10 million)?
=D~
Jan 24th, 2010 (5:25 pm)I posted this a number of times in previous articles/posts.
http://www.rasertech.com/motors-and-drives/products/drive-systems/series-phev-drive-system
The video shows what looks like a Sierra truck. I hope that GM follows this track in updating these trucks.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jan 24th, 2010 (5:30 pm)You make a good point. We should start making a list so when the subject comes up, we’ll know it’s a joke:
1. On-board pellet stove.
2. Hydrogen
3. Ethanol
4.
Jan 24th, 2010 (5:35 pm)Ham-tram-ick
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio-medlineplus.pl?ggham01v.wav=Hamtramck
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jan 24th, 2010 (5:37 pm)How does the coskata process have anything to do with food supplies? It processes landfill waste!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 24th, 2010 (5:47 pm)Isn’t that the process which has an organism that not only eats just about anything to produce ethanol, but, can also reproduce itself?
What are the handling precautions, if any, for something like that?
Can we warrant that it will only prefer landfill waste and not us as well? Just because **we** want it to do some specific task does not necessarily mean it will *only* be specific to affecting those specific things!!
Has anyone begun to ask those sorts questions at all?
Or are we so arrogant regarding this engineered organism, that “no questions need be asked as to it’s biological safety to other organisms, our food crops, our livestock, and, not excluding ourselves” as well, if it is capable of evolving?
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (5:54 pm)One would wonder where your from!?! Sure we all should invest in Chinese companies and take our dividends to the bank. Your definitely not a union worker, and I doubt if your an American!
But thanks for the post anyways; I’m sure your statement will aggravate enough Americans to wake up and unit to bring this country back on its feet, re-establish manufacturing through new automotive initiatives, and the new green industries of the future.
China of course will be a strong economic force merely because of its over 1 billion populations. They are selling over 2,000 cars a day to a nation just emerging industrial economy. What U.S. citizens need to realize, starts with knowing that buying American made products and demanding that what we buy is American Made. We will of course demand quality merchandise. IMHO, GM has made great strides in producing a quality vehicles. The Volt appears to be on the road to being one of them.
So keep up your inane comments if you like. This is one blog that will tolerate them.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jan 24th, 2010 (6:01 pm)Wow, that would be a sweet movie when it becomes self-aware.
Jan 24th, 2010 (6:08 pm)I’m not 100% schooled in the process, but it was my understanding that it uses an enzyme – not an organism. All the questions you ask are serious issues, many of which have been raised with nanotech advances.
I’ll have to do some more reading, but my point was that it’s unrelated to food stocks.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (6:10 pm)LRGVProVolt Says: “China of course will be a strong economic force merely because of its over 1 billion populations. They are selling over 2,000 cars a day to a nation just emerging industrial economy. What U.S. citizens need to realize, starts with knowing that buying American made products and demanding that what we buy is American Made. We will of course demand quality merchandise. IMHO, GM has made great strides in producing a quality vehicles. The Volt appears to be on the road to being one of them.”
It depends, when quality is perceived as being approximately equal, the majority of Americans will go with the less expensive product. Remember in the late 80s when Wal-mart had a Made in the USA campaign? They sold all kind of merchandise that was made in the USA that was reasonably priced. But they were able to sell similar quality Chinese products for just a little less, so what did Americans choose to purchase? Unfortunately in a Market Economy, price does matter.
Cheers!
Jan 24th, 2010 (6:10 pm)Self awareness isn’t the point (nor necessary). Altering DNA of any living thing to that extreme power causes automatic functioning in ways unanticipated to anything else untested, which is everything else.
Add the fact that life evolves continuously, and, you may potentially end up with a situation that the normal “checks and balances” in evolutionary interrelationships within the biosphere have the potential of being violated on quite a deadly scale.
Jan 24th, 2010 (6:19 pm)Yes,
That’s the **represented** limitation (that is untested) that it will remain in a closed system. But information has not been forthcoming that that is the case.
Ethanol is alchohol.
But that does not mean that somehow it can become increasingly tolerant of live existence within it as a finished product.
Extremeophyles, for example, live even in a vacuum or at boiling temperatures. I believe that the thread a few months ago said that “it can reproduce”.
Jan 24th, 2010 (6:26 pm)Dan,
I was wrong about the enzyme use in the Costkata process – it uses a “proprietary organism”, but elsewhere it describes it as “naturally occurring”. Their site is:
http://www.coskata.com/process/index.asp?source=8899FC75-FF8B-4AF6-9B9F-3AE7524E59FE
LMK if you can figure it out for sure.
Thanks.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 24th, 2010 (7:12 pm)Burning wood pellets in a modified Volt with a biomass heater is absurd. It makes far more sense to use field corn.
One of the advantages is that your Volt will smell like a movie theatre concession stand.
Yum !
Jan 24th, 2010 (7:23 pm)Why not just keep it simple and throw a can of Sterno in the cup-holder. There are cup holders in the back seat too, so it’d be dual climate control.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 24th, 2010 (7:30 pm)Maybe I’m missing something, but if the organism hasn’t been modified to be used in the process, and is already out in nature, why would using it to produce alcohol pose a danger?
Be well,
Tagamet
/extremeophyles are really impressive and some believe that they may have been the first life on Earth.
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 24th, 2010 (7:34 pm)Apparently, from the limited description of thier patented microorganism,
it is far more able to tolerate both chemical toxins to it, as well as a mitigated resilience to its historical evolutionary predator, which is a bacterial virus infection. To which the patented organism has a “greatly mitigated (reduced) susceptibility”.
It was unclear however, (presumably since there is a patent pending), what biohazard could be potentially posed by it.
The process is said to operate the patented microorganism at lower pressures and temperatures than conventional fermentation process microorganisms, which are very prone to the degredation from a viral infection of those conventional fermentaion organisms. And, as a result, the fermenter tank of the conventional fermentation organisms must be purged and washed out of those damaged conventional microorganisms infected with the viral phage.
The mitigated (greatly reduced) susceptability to that evolutionary predator to it is what I had been talking about above, where there ought to be some accounting of the potential of the patented organism to evolve “in place” in the final stage, and, possibly be discharged into the final product.
(The first stage of the process is a very high temperature vaporization of just about anything with hydrogen and carbon molecules in it.) So, it may mean that the patented bacterium may not be able to act upon (digest) something at
STP, “Standard Temperature and Pressure”,
but I would certainly want to know that these questions are ansered clearly, and, ***any*** possible concern of any of those scientists working on it (even though the original version of the organism “has been used for decades”) is disclosed and defined in all manner of ways regarding safety, OSHA, MHSS, (Materials Handling Safety Sheet), and on and on.
For something apparently this revolutionary to recycle nearly everything landfill-bound that has hydrogen or carbon in its molecular structure, the microorganism needs at least some baseline checking by independent qualified other scientists for an evolutionary rate to tolerate STP as well as for any affinity to evolve to become a non-controllable detriment outside of its intended containment. Especially, having now, the DNA for a far higher resilience against it’s evolutionary predator. We would not want to be digested by another version of MRSA, if that were even remotely possible. If the altered organism is not now being studied for safety, then some agency has dropped the ball on this really badly.
And, all this explained to us in simple language.
Jan 24th, 2010 (7:38 pm)I think USA don’t have lithium….. you and me (I’m Portuguese) will be dependent on lithium for bateries and also some oil for the generator, but I still buy a volt ups….a Opel Ampera as soon as possible.
Jan 24th, 2010 (7:46 pm)Our posts crossed.
It certainly has been greatly modified from the natural one, which makes it patentable.
(Remember the GE song “We bring good things to life” also meant their winning the Supreme Court fight wherein it was ruled that life could be patented).
The context of the first life on earth in genetics might actually have a more deadly predatory effect, such as dinosaurs eating people. “Eat or be eaten” also applies to us if we are not getting enough nutrients, little organisms can detect our weakened tissues and begin to cause us trouble on the microscopic end as well.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (8:07 pm)In order to replace 35% of our gas consumption using the Coskata process, 15% of the biomass would have to come from energy crops:
http://www.coskata.com/ethanol/index.asp?source=D77DE2FB-67A8-4D6B-81B5-B138725EFB70
Energy crops can grow on idle farmland, or they can also grow on land that is not suitable for farming, since energy crops are basically big weeds.
Here’s the point: Anything beyond 35% would start to affect our food supply. So ethanol is only a partial solution. But the combination of ethanol and EREVs provides a solution that can completely replace gasoline. And that’s using our existing infrastructure of 110 volt outlets and liquid fuel filling stations.
Jan 24th, 2010 (8:15 pm)…no matter how inferior the American products are.
And I’m not saying they all are but “buy American” just to do it is stupid. You buy whatever is the best value for YOU. Buying American just to buy American, even if the product is inferior AND more expensive tells the manufacturer, “keep producing inferior, over priced merchanise, and we’ll reward your lack of insight, engineering prowess, and competitiveness by buying regardless.”
Or better yet why don’t we just subsidize every American product by taxing imports?
Oh wait we tried that 80 years ago in the form of the Hawley Smoot tarriff and resulted in a global Great Depression as imports and exports dropped by 50%.
Yeah, buy American if the product is a better, or even as good, a value for YOU!
Jan 24th, 2010 (8:19 pm)Tag,
Thanks greatly for that link. I wouldn’t have found it otherwise.
Dan.
Jan 24th, 2010 (8:33 pm)Although I agree that all of the organisms used to produce ethanol must be risk assessed, I’m far more concerned about the ones in which the organism has been genetically modified by man. *THAT* scares the bejeebers outta me. This organism does have a natural resistance to viral infections that kill OTHER microorganisms in the fermentation process – but it’s not been modified. If it had a great potential to do harm, that harm would have shown itself, well, naturally.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 24th, 2010 (8:42 pm)Certainly price matters but when the quality is equal, as you say, and price is only a little less, we should buy American. On a grand scale, we have proven that by not buying home made products, we have destroyed a large part of our manufacturing base. Stay with the philosophy of lowest price, or go back to it, and we will become a second rate nation. We already have a less effective health care system compared to Canada, England, and France with more and more citizens unable to afford health care. More people unemployed and lossing or having lost their homes is a prime example of the lack of jobs because we could get it cheaper from some other country. Was it worth it? I don’t think so! I’m through buying foreign goods. Starting with the Volt as my next vehicle – if and when I can afford one.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jan 24th, 2010 (8:49 pm)A naturally-occurring organism isn’t patentable, as I recall. A newly *discovered* organism is a natrually-occuring one. But what we may also need to consider is that *place and time* also come into play.
The ebola bacteria was not a danger until it was accidentally encountered and it came into contact with people.
And, although any organism that has been altered (which is an eaily-accomplished form of DNA change), there can be an extremely unlikely or even an unexpectedly unfortunate *placement* of that change that may possibly yeild highly unintended consequences.
All I am saying is that I have insufficient confidence that enough is known and disclosed regarding something that is as apparently as extremely beneficial as this is. This is a down side of “Trade Secrets Protections” Laws, but still, the owners of the “proprietary organism” ought to be more up front about the thoroughness of their safety testing at least.
+2
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:00 pm)…so…
… If the ethanol-producing germ ‘gets out’ and spreads like wildfire…
Then now we know why Zombies lurch around stupidly. They’re drunk!!
(stepping out for a moment to put more wood pellets into my super-eco-sustainable mobile electrical turbine generating thing-y).
Mmm, popcorn.
What was this thread supposed to be about, again?
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:09 pm)I been in studying International Trade nearly all my life. The down fall of American Industry began with the attempt to maintain corporate profits by manufacturing off-shore and our nations trade policy to negotiate trade agreements with developing or poor nations looking for American companies to set up shop where labor rates were extremely low. Much of this effort was based upon America maintaining supremacy in a Global Economy. Our nation hasn’t been able to keep that position. Japanese and Korean automotive manufacturers are an example; they have been able to make better quality cars in the past and have taken away U.S, car makers market share. At first the quality wasn’t there: but in time, they were able to learn how to make their vehicles better. So yes, buyers of course bought foreign cars – price was right and quality mattered. But no where was there a sense of where we would end up being; being without much of our manufacturing base.
The American automotive industry with the major three companies, and the various U.S. parts suppliers represent a large part of what remains of American manufacturing. To retain it is vital to the interests of the nation. I am happy to see that GM is now producing attractive, affordable, and quality vehicles. When it comes time to roll out the Vote, I hope that GM will be able to up the production to meet demand. The paradigm change by GM that the Vote represents shows a new vigor in the company. They promise to deliver quality vehicles, and we should all support them now.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:11 pm)Sounds like the “U” in some Toyota FUD to me …
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:17 pm)Its probably that he has the Prius in the automatic climate control mode.. or a similar setting, check in the Prius forums.
The Prius has an electrically assisted heating mode that will get the blown air quite toasty right away, but it lowers your mileage.. so they have a mode that prevents that and gives you tepid air instead of hot. AC and Heating has a large effect on the Prius mileage, combine that with the thick winter air, winter blend gasoline and you get those reports of poor (relatively) Prius mileage in the winter.
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:31 pm)No fire, its a catalytic reaction, flameless.
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:35 pm)What is the foreign producer is an enemy building an army to one day challenge your countrymen on the battlefield (ie China).
Jan 24th, 2010 (9:40 pm)Beats me! I got lost around the corn pellets. I think the only thing we DIDN’T discuss is the SCOTUS decision. There’s always tomorrow’s topic.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:06 pm)They gasify (burn with oxygen and steam in a blow thru process) carbon based waste at high temperatures to generate synthesis gas (hydrogen and CO, syngas, town gas, illumination gas) this is fed to a sealed vat with organisms (yeast) that eat it and make ethanol.. supposedly in a continuous process the ethanol is filtered out of the mash and then distilled to further dry it. Hopefully the process will be economically viable, we should know in a couple of years.
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:27 pm)It could be but more likely limited by the power generated by the genset. From the Tesla charts it appears you need about 85kw to sustain 125mph. Since the genset can only provide 50kw then you need to beef that up.
Boost the 1.4l engine to 140hp (105kw), probably by letting it rev up, and perhaps increase the size and/or cooling of the generator so that it can output enough power to sustain the main motor at the 85kw level. The main motor is already rated for 112kw so it should be ok.. but the motor may have to be rewound to get the right rpm/voltage relationship. Perhaps get rid of the second motor winding used for brake regen. Dont forget the special oxygen-free copper wire use to rewind the motor
20 years from now, kids will be doing this to 2010 Volts. Probably easier than hopping up a 1960′s muscle car..
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:31 pm)Gosh, I can’t believe that I actually know the answers to such things. I guess it is a benefit of living in the Detroit area for about 30 years. Hamtramck: ham-tram-ick. Paczki: poonch-ski, a jelly filled donut (ok, so custard has also become accepted) that originated in the Polish community. These donuts are extra rich, having more egg yolks than normal. They were meant to be served on only one day, Fat Tuesday, the day before Ash Wednesday, the first day of lent. During Lent the Catholic community was supposed to forego anything that is a treat (like donuts), so any ingredients used for such things had to be used up before Lent started, thus the decadent donuts. Personally, I find that they don’t taste all that good, but the pastries have become popular all over the Detroit area, not just in the Polish community. And not just on Fat Tuesday.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (10:48 pm)While the decisions are certainly up to the “YOUs” to make. It should be noted and noted and reiterated that there is value in purchasing decisions beyond the “YOUs’” noses. It is not just price and product. The further the money goes the less chance it will come back to the “YOU”. So a dollar spent on a product built down the is not the same as a dollar spent on a product built halfway around the world, even if the product and price are identical. This is particularly true if the country of origin has systemic policy and culture to inhibit your local manufacturer from selling there. A smart “YOU” should know this and place some value on where the dollar spent is going.
+1
Jan 24th, 2010 (11:41 pm)Funny, Mark, tariffs, taxes on imports, barriers to foreign goods, don’t work? Tell that to China, Germany, Mexico, Japan, the whole of South America, and more. So carrying Mark’s statements to fruition, Free Trade, the mantra tried for 20 years has done beautifully for America? Sure, let’s celebrate the trade deficit with a bottle of imported champagne. Foolish he mentions properly. Foolish to ignore facts for mantra and dogma. I suppose he’ll carry his Rush Limbaugh ditto thoughts forward to say our subsidizing the entire world with our money to protect oil and the Middle-East over one major addiction was also a great thing.
CHEVY VOLT: American-Made, American-FUELED. Nearly here now. Can’t wait to put another quality built American car in my garage. I add, to help the security of our nation and fiscal responsibility of our nation helped with the purchase.
Jan 24th, 2010 (11:42 pm)Yup, it is in automatic mode, and I live on a bit of a hill. so the engine is not on much. I think the electric heat is about 600watts. I will have to figure out if it is on or not. I definitely like the HHR when it is Zero out. The Prius heat reminds me of a great lump of cast iron, like a Cummings diesel. It does not really heat up until going up a hill.
Yes, the pellet stove was tongue in cheek. A bit of Red Green there. Fringe for sure. I wonder what they will come up with for those zero degree days.
I do like the idea of popcorn eating zombie Volt drivers though.
Cheers
Jan 25th, 2010 (12:38 am)There will be a governor because the tires aren’t rated for the speed that the motor could provide. That’s invariably the reason for the speed limits on EVs.
Also note that, other than the tires, the limiting factor here is the battery. Quite unlike an engine, which usually can’t provide even its rated output, a motor can provide several times its rated output for short periods.
Jan 25th, 2010 (1:11 am)I did say in my post that GM limits the top speed to 100 mph which is done through electronic control circuitry. I stand corrected on them using a governor. After reading your post, I checked Wikipedia “Electric Locomotives” and discovered that the electric control is called a “governor”. I stand corrected on that point.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+5
Jan 25th, 2010 (6:27 am)[quote]tariffs, taxes on imports, barriers to foreign goods, don’t work?[/quote]
Yes. Good example is our national (my home country is not USA) automaker VAZ. It is still making the same cars it made 30 years ago. It is alive because of:
a) government initiatives (donations, credit&tax benefits, and so on);
b) taxes on import;
c) patriotic feelings of population.
Sounds familiar?
But, despite poor quality and design, and unreasonably high price, their cars are number one in sales in 2009. If you are interested, number two is Chevrolet (Lacetti) and number three is Ford (Focus); both assembled in plants at Sankt-Petersburg. Reno (Logan), Hyundai (Accent) and KIA (Spectra) are lurking behind.
Your government spends too much money on wars and on trying to be the world political leader, which you are uncapable now because of economy reasons. As far as I can see, most of americans still see the world through Cold War stereotypes (imperialistic ones).
The same economic policies lead to collapse of Soviet Union in 1991. In 90-th Russia had recession twice hard as Great Depression in USA. Will the same happen to USA?
PS. If you ask me why do I support USA-economy (by buying Chevrolet car), which is politically hostile to us (if believe what your government say and do) – I prefer western culture and economic model over asian one (communist type seems bigger evil to me).
PPS. I am expecting to get lots of minuses from local patriots
+1
Jan 25th, 2010 (6:48 am)+ 1 for Dmitrii. Thanks for posting.
+1
Jan 25th, 2010 (7:21 am)+1 for Dmitri from me as well.
Jan 25th, 2010 (8:00 am)What a load of overhyped rubbish. This all sounds like a peak oil bash (the US releasing this estimate) – or a reason they’re passing round Washington to “liberate” Venzuala!!
1. These are oil sands (worse than Canadian oil sands), not pure oil – so they have a terrible EROEI. Well done the BBC (sarcasm off) for highlighting this point!
2. Venezuala (quite rightly) wont let foreign oil companies in to steal most of the oil – paying them pittance for it.
Expect this “oil” to stay in the ground and not be exploited for decades to come.
Jan 25th, 2010 (9:55 am)Sorry,
I should have mentioned my thoughts were if you don’t want money going to Saudi Arabia, how do you feel about money going to Venezuela and Chavez?
Jan 25th, 2010 (1:12 pm)#3
Thanks for the interesting link. +1 How can that be bad? Any discovery of more oil supplies has to delay the terrible day of reckoning, right? I know that a lot of people don’t like Hugo (understatement of the year, LOL), but I have to confess to laughing at watching the little b*****d spit in the eye of “The Colossus of the North” once in awhile, hehehe. A little humility never hurt anybody, including us IMHO.
Jan 25th, 2010 (1:16 pm)#16
God send that it shall be true! +1
Jan 25th, 2010 (1:20 pm)#21
All true. +1
Jan 25th, 2010 (1:29 pm)#39
All they have to do is change the final drive ratio. We do it all the time. Trade off acceleration for top speed. Believe you me, they can make it go 125 mph if they want to. No problem.
“KERS” was just starting to produce results by the end of the F1 season, but it looks like it might be dropped this year. Even so, it has clearly proven that there is a place for these technologies in racing.
Great idea, Tagamet, et al.
Jan 25th, 2010 (1:33 pm)#140 & #141
Me to. And +1 to both of you as well. Always cool to hear from Dimitrii.
Jan 25th, 2010 (1:38 pm)#46
VERY interesting. Thanks. +1
statik has been saying some version of this from the beginning. A very small decline in demand at the margin can crash the price. BRING IT ON!!
LJGTVWOTR!!
Jan 25th, 2010 (1:43 pm)#49
Watch the carbon monoxide, LOL. By the time you crack the window enough to let the CO out, you will freeze anyway. Every year in LA people asphyxiate from trying to heat their living spaces with charcoal hibachis or unvented gas heaters. Maybe if you put a chimney through the roof, but that wouldn’t do much for the Cd, LOL.
Jan 25th, 2010 (1:50 pm)#59
Nice comment. +1
Jan 25th, 2010 (1:52 pm)#61
That’s where Chevy kicks their butts with the “range extender”, LOL. No better example of how much better it is than a pure EV!
Jan 25th, 2010 (2:07 pm)#108
Too true. Alas, “stupid is as stupid does”, which is exactly why we are in the fix we are today.
Jan 25th, 2010 (2:15 pm)#124
“Ham-tram-ick”, LOL +1 Oh no, sorry, it was “Flint South”.
Jan 25th, 2010 (7:52 pm)#139
Very likely IMHO, if we do not change our ways. I note that you are now at +4, so not too many “-” from the local patriots, LOL. Well said.
Jan 25th, 2010 (8:19 pm)It can and will crash the price but not for long. Production will be adjusted and it will always settle above $50/barrell from here on out unless demand continues to fall. The flip side is not so elastic. A spike in demand cannot be met easily by an increase in supply beyond a decreasing max. Once demand goes above that price will skyrocket and won’t come down until demand does. Unfortunately that ceiling is shrinking and will hold down the world economy with a series of recessions unless we can substitute an alternate energy source for the shortfall. In this scenario, the Volt is a good TCO deal vs comps no matter how you slice the numbers.