If you are reading this post, please watch the 3:39 minute video below. After watching the video please share it with everyone you know either by email, Twitter, facebook or any other means.
This is a micro-documentary I have produced that strives to send a clear message to everyone who sees it why they might want to drive an electric car.
You may not agree with everything in the video, but hopefully there is something in it for everyone. You might not think its great or even very good, but at least its better than the Chevy Volt dance!
If we can get this video to “go viral” there’s a chance millions of people could get this message.
If you are the creative type, feel free to make your own.
Thanks for your support.
This entry was posted on Tuesday, January 19th, 2010 at 6:46 am and is filed under Video. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+8
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:55 am)Very nice.. perhaps also mention that oil has more important uses for manufacturing, growing and distributing food.. oil shortages have great potential to impact our lives.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:05 am)Would only add that traffic pollution costs us additional billions in health care and an immeasurable loss in quality of life. Drive electric.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:08 am)Lyle, I am almost speechless. It is beyond good. Very moving. Keep it up.
LJGTVWOTR
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:11 am)Covers all the points for me, other than the fact I think we are fast approaching peak cars as well.
The EV will eventually rule, and the EREV is a very important step in that process.
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:22 am)Good work, Lyle!
But my only problem with all of this is that if we raise awareness to the “masses” before these cars are available in quantity, aren’t we just going raise the frustration level??
+10
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:32 am)I hate to cast the first stone, but to me this video implies unless we start driving electric cars the earth will explode (as shown by the graphic at marker 2:36). This why EV supporters are often viewed as “extremists” and “crazies” (kind of like how Glenn Beck associates Obama’s presidency to Armageddon). Even if the idea of man-made global warning was accepted by everyone, very few agree that electric cars are the solution (perhaps a small part at best).
Having said that, the video is well done and will certainly prompt more people to look into EVs further. If it is not too late, I would suggest an edit to the video to remove the references to Armageddon.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:34 am)Great video Lyle.
Now all you have to do is get us some cars
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:38 am)What the hell is a cubic pound? How can you 20 pounds of anything from burning one gallon of gasoline which weighs much less than 20 lbs.?
+11
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:45 am)Ok, one gallon of gasoline puts 19 pounds of CO2 into the air, even though the gallon of gas only weighs 6 pounds. Do a little homework and look for the explanation on the internet – it may take a few tries. I think Wikki has a decent one. The gist of it is that one atom of carbon combines with two atoms of oxygen. Each atom of oxygen weighs more than the one atom of carbon.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:49 am)Lyle, this video is BRILLIANT! ….It should circle the globe in NO time and it will certainly raise public awareness of the coming availability of the world’s first truly practical electric car —the Chevy Volt!
+10
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:50 am)I agree with the message, but some of the claims seem a bit partisan. These days there is a large fraction of the population that will ignore the entire message because of appearance of political bias.
Also, at time 2:20, where do I get one of them “cubic tons”? All of my scales are circular, and won’t measure cubic weights.. B-)
Have a great day!
WVhybrid
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:51 am)In a related issue, loss of manufacturing jobs may one day have consequences similar to the loss of independence caused by dependence on foreign natural resources. The Volt actually helps with this issue also.
+14
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:55 am)Personally I think it is a bit self serving. To me it seems to say drive an electric car and save the world. Driving an electric car is not a silver bullet to the worlds problems.
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:58 am)Electric cars (or plug-in hybrids) can partially address peak oil and global warming, but they would not alleviate traffic congestion. Also driving cars supports a lifestyle of inadequate exercise. We need to also build an infrastructure that encourages walking and bicycling.
In answer to Jeff’s second question, most of the weight of gasoline is carbon. Carbon has an atomic weight of 12. When burned each atom of carbon combines with 2 atoms of oxygen (atomic weight 16) from the atmosphere to produce carbon dioxide with a molecular weight of 44.
Good film – I hope the Volt is a winner.
-45
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:59 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:03 am)Thanks JohnK, you’re right of course. But I still don’t know what a cubic pound is? Still a very good video.
If electric vehicles are successful, I believe it will be because they will become more economical to operate rather than less polluting.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:04 am)The beginning of the presentation reminded me of a funny observation.
The guy who invented the wheel was smart. The guy who invented the other three was a genius.
+30
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:05 am)And why would you want to buy a 100% imported car that runs on 75% imported fuel(prius)unless you have a grudge against the american economy
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:08 am)Lyle said, “You may not agree with everything in the video, but hopefully there is something in it for everyone.” and I’d like to add that: There are three integral parts to our nation’s quest for energy independence they are: (1) Energy conservation….(2) The electrification of the automobile through means of solar and wind energy….(3) And the mind set of our population. Oil is not an endless resource! Use it wisely and only where necessary!
Good Job Kyle
+8
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:10 am)Nice video except for a couple of factual errors:
1. No such thing as “cubic pounds” or cubic of any weight.
2. Carbon dioxide increase lags global temperature, as any one that knows anything about data analysis can see by looking at the data.
And by now we know that the “most experts” that claim that global warming is caused by human activities are a bunch of crooks.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:13 am)OOPS, Good job Lyle
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:28 am)Lyle, you continue to amaze… I’m not sure how you do it – but THANK YOU for doing it! The video is brilliant – the music bed is captivating and a good choice – and this will get viewers!
Sure, a few facts could be disclosed clearer – but you stated “You may not agree with everything in the video, but hopefully there is something in it for everyone…..”
You also opened the door … “If your the creative type, feel free to make your own.” OK creative types … consider this Lyle’s challenge … let’s see your stuff!
Go GM. Go VOLT. Bring it on…..
-11
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:37 am)(click to show comment)
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:46 am)Of course the Volt is a silver bullet. It is the silver bullet that, once fired (no pun intended), it represents what we can do to save our butts (,) lots of gasoline money if that is your only mantra, lots of pollution if that’s also your (wise health) preference, lots of money not having to do brake jobs and other maintenance, especially if you’re fed up with $1500 brake jobs (for going to the wrong place in the first place), and on and on.
We can’t entirely stop what is going to happen in the environment, but we all **must** **sincerely try** to get on the same page regarding understanding it **exactly** without all the crappy denial. Read Science Daily every day. It is also highly reputed.
Then, *PLEASE* hold back on making conclusions for about three months to avoid provincial, circular views that remain chronically-outdated. (The Science Daily site format allows for excellent and quick and convenient research for the best current and balanced views on the environment, and everything else science (except Voltec of course)).
Volt is a philosophy. It’s a new way of doing
*********************
* EVERYTHING. *
*********************
Lyle, the video is
*****************
* Superb!!!!! *
*****************
Send it over to PBS!! (Maybe Ed can get ExxonMobil to sponsor it for us!!!!) They may need to slow the text change rate down a bit for people to read on their big new wide screens.
+27
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:52 am)This is ridiculouos on many levels. Where will the insanity stop?
Allmost all of my tools are harmful to humans.
My wifes hair dryer is harmful to humans.
Most candy is harmful to humans.
Insectacides are harmful to humans.
Kitchen knives are harmful to humans.
The fact that my roof is 20 feet high and I must go up their occassionally is harmful to humans.
My lawnmower is harmful to humans.
The list can go on forever.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:04 am)Hi Lyle, I agree that your video is very good, but here are some comments for your consideration in an effort to make it even better.
I read more slowly than most, so the speed of the video was a little too quick for me, so consider having each page stay on the screen a little longer.
I am not a fan of AGW, and I am not alone. So I see its inclusion as a “blue” flag, which by that I mean I react with the thought this is liberal propaganda, not a rational argument.
Is the average car mileage 20.3 or 23? I thought it was 23.
That’s it. Thanks Lyle for all you do to foster a better future for all.
-11
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:05 am)(click to show comment)
+8
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:06 am)Well, you probably wouldn’t buy it regardless, hater. But I would buy a Volt because I don’t like the Toyota bait-and-switch tactics. Sure the Prius STARTS AT $22K, but that’s for a base model 3 generations old (II not V). Only people with moths in their wallets will buy that. If you actually build one with the latest tech and features, the price is very close to the Volt, but you still can’t plug in the Prius. Unless of course you want to void the warranty and do a $10K 3rd party plug-in conversion. Oh wait, now the Prius is MORE expensive than the Volt. And still won’t be as fun to drive.
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:07 am)Excellent Job, Lyle! I KNEW you had some extra time on your hands (g). It must have been an incredible challenge just to sort through all the issues impacted by the electrification of transportation! Maybe your next effort could be in 3D and IMAX compatible.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:07 am)Dear Mr. Whitacre,
Please buy the rights to Lyle’s video above, and, if it is OK with GM, and, if it is OK with the ExxxonMobil board, in a mutual GM/ExxonMobil effort, put that video in front of everyone on the planet in all the various languages in a PSA (public service announcement), and,
pay Lyle ten times the price of a Volt for it please.
(Include the Volt itself for the eleventh value as well).
Sincerely,
Dan Petit
Austin Texas.
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:11 am)Nicely done video Lyle. Where in the world do you get the time to do all of this?
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:18 am)Nice grass roots video Lyle. Here’s one of my favorites. Running time about 20 minutes.
http://www.storyofstuff.com/
=D~
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:21 am)Just curious, but what is the weather like in your world?
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-9
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:21 am)I’ll come back and watch it when I have time to sit through the nonsense at the start of the video. Please get rid of that stuff and get to the point!
+12
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:23 am)EVs run on electricity. Wind and solar are ways of producing electricity without relying on fossil fuels. Thus, they are very much linked in the quest to both reduce greenhouse emmisions and/or reduce the reliance on non-renewable fuel sources / create domestic power.
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:23 am)Nice marketing! (but I’d be afraid they’d change the sound track to the Volt song) (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:38 am)Sheez, what ignorance.. please spend a few minutes at the Toyota web site. The Volt cant compete with the Prius on cost, the Prius has been in continuous improvement and production for 13 years.. Give GM a chance to catch up.
Hint: all the Priuses sold today are the same generation, Gen III
+4
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:39 am)Hi RB,
Although I think that we share a very similar political bent, when *I* watched the video, I found myself noticing ways that Lyle was trying to avoid political posturing. One example – he mentions the rise in CO2,but does NOT label it anthropomorphic. Cleaner air isn’t a Democrat or Republican issue – I think that they both breathe the same air – at least until they reach Washington, DC (g).
I just don’t see how a lot of the beneficial results of the Volt can even be mentioned without it “feeling” like it leans one way or the other. Tough job – glad Lyle took it on. JMO (and I respect yours too).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-4
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:39 am)Products are always being recalled for safety related issues.
They are either discontinued or improved to eliminate or lower the safety concern.
Allow me to reiterate. “Automakers need to stop making a product that is harmful to humans since there are alternatives they can make that will do the same job without or less harmful impact.” Other products that are harmful, and yes that includes cigarettes, should not be mass produced if there are safer alternatives. If someone wants to smoke maybe they should roll it up themselves. Having to go through the trouble of growing your own tobacco to smoke would possibly discourage people from smoking.
NPNS!
-6
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:40 am)This video is a total Joke!!
Real scientists don’t have to Fake their results !!!
If you base the Volt on getting off middle east oil that is fair !
But Don’t Lie to the people about Global warming Hoax!!
Mt Saint Helens blew out in 10 min what the USA can produces in CO2 in Hundred years.
Sorry Lyle this video is based on a LIE !!!
+6
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:42 am)It would be easy to pile on with more accolades for Lyles’s video – easy because it was well done. But if Lyles is looking for feedback and constructive critisizm then I would point out the following. That is that when a message has multiple points, especially multiple controversial points, it is most likely that someone will disagree with one of them. Human nature being what it is, people (myself included) will tend to focus on the one(s) they disagree with and the whole message ends up not being effective or at least less effective than it could have been.
Perhaps it would be better to put together multiple messages that focus on only one point. Those that disagree will just ignore that particular message. But the message(s) they do agree with they will pay attention to. So put together a video that focuses on the environment/global warming. As well as one for air quality, national defense/trade imbalance, peak oil etc. This would be my advice for GM as well. Go ahead and put together different messages and be careful about where you put out those messages. Perhaps skip the global warming one in an oil drillers trade magazine! Go with the globabl warming ad in the Seattle paper and the made here/national security type piece in the Detroit paper etc.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:42 am)Pretty good effort Lyle. (Way better than mine. Which is none.)
Overall, I think the video is a little too political. However, you have covered most of the points that would lead one to consider going electric. I think it would be better to push the mechanical attributes more (smooth, no shifting, quiet, etc). Maybe part II?
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:43 am)I still say Lyle will be mentioned when the history books detail the transformation of transportation from gas to electric. Thanks again Lyle for your heroic efforts.
+7
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:44 am)My last comment still applies.
For every sharp knife there is a duller one.
For every chainsaw there is a dull hand saw.
For many good products, there is a safer version.
The idea that the production of a gasoline car or a battery car that is not good enough should lead to a lawsuit is still ridiculous by most peoples common sense standards. Discussions like that make this site appear to be monitored by loons.
By the way Lyle, Great idea to make a video.
+7
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:45 am)Geez that is dumb. Do you need water? Is it dangerous? Using your logic I would ask you to submerge your head in the toilet for 10 minutes and we can prove if it is dangerous! Let us know how it turns out!
+7
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:50 am)Nice video, it will certainly affect people concerned with our planet, environment, oil dependency, and such stuff…
…but am I the only one who likes the Volt because it is so COOL and HIGH TECH? I don’t care how many elks I save driving it – I just want to ride in true 21th century style, not using a steam- pardon, petrol- engine.
When will we see a Volt commercial with emphasis on coolness, high-techness, user friendlyness (doesn’t need to fill it up every week)? Then mention “andyouwillbesavingtheplanetalso” in the last second of the clip
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:51 am)The video link will not work for me. Anyone else having problems? I tried to find it on youtube … is it there?
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:51 am)Just a side note: Sharp knives are safer than dull ones, assuming you are concentrating on what you are doing at the time. You are more likely to slip and cut yourself on a dull knife. Any knife needs to be at least sharp enough to cut what you want it to, and if it’s that sharp, it’s sharp enough to cut you if you slip. A sharp knife will cut through what you intend to cut without skiping or sliding.
If you aren’t paying attention when cutting something with a knife, perhaps you should just put the knife down altogether.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:55 am)You just noticed? Sorry, I had to say that or my head would explode (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:55 am)Nothing is ever true all of the time.
Anyway, now we are really off track.
I will focus back on how great of an idea it was for Lyle to make a video.
Good idea!
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:58 am)______________________________________________________
Great video…
Lyle’s: “If your the creative type, feel free to make your own”…sounds like a Volt videoThrowdown Challenge me!
_____________________________________________________
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:59 am)Granted. The majority of the time sharp knives are safer than dull ones. In addition to the above, you have to put a lot more pressure on a dull knife, making it much more likely to slip violently and cause damage. Ask a chef.
The same can be said about handsaws, the majority of time. I’ll take mine super sharp, thanks.
Back to our regularly scheduled video…
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:03 am)True, but I can’t think of anything the average American can do that is more significant to help our country. The average American can’t run for president and solve the worlds problems, but he can choose for his transportation a mode that creates jobs for americans and helps reduce imported oil.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:05 am)OK, if it is a choice between buying the Volt and giving your kids an education and teaching them good values and morals, I don’t know, thats a tough one. I think buying the Volt is still more important.
+7
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:13 am)No, it’s not a silver bullet, but it is a signifigant piece of the puzzle. Elevtric vehicles open the door to a more diversified soure of transportation power. As an engineer I would expect that you would understand that there is no silver bullet, and every solution is going to have pieces that need to be put together. Putting the Volt down because it’s not a silver bullet is a weak argument. It’s a piece of the puzzle, and a very important one.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:14 am)Love the music, Lyle.
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:14 am)I’ve been visiting this site almost since it’s inception and I still never see this talked about, so here it is.
A roomba like device designed so that once you pull into your garage robotically with a cord attached finds an under chasis charge port and connects itself. If you can make a roomba for 200 dollars that finds it’s way to a charging dock you can make this for the Volt. For a reasonable amount. Then you never have to worry about forgetting to plug it every time you come home.
I think I’ll repeat this every day.
John
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:14 am)A little of topic
From the Maryland Energy Admin.
The Gov’s plans:
Incentivize the Purchase of Plug-in Electric Vehicles
Create a credit against the State vehicle excise tax for the purchase of plug-in electric vehicles (new generation of electric vehicles are expected to come on the market beginning in the fall of 2010, including the Chevy Volt, and electric vehicles by Chrysler, Nissan, Ford and Toyota.) The tax credit would be for 3 years and would be capped at $2,000 per vehicle. Exemptions would be limited to one per individual and 10 per business entity. Fiscal cost estimated to be $279,000 in FY 2011. Loss of revenue to Transportation Trust Fund will be offset with funds raised under the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative. Electric vehicles will provide enormous and far-reaching environmental, economic, national security and health benefits to our citizens. Electric vehicles will reduce petroleum use and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, lower fuel costs, improve air quality, and increase the State’s and country’s energy independence.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:15 am)I liked the video except for the “global warming” mention….IF you have to mention that all….I’d say “climate change”….
Also, in sending this off to my friends/family they might think that the Volt is an all electric vehicle….The video should IMHO clearly state the expected electric range (as well as expected gas range)….
Thanks for putting the video together….nice job….I hope to get a Volt in Florida….
-2
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:15 am)Need to clairify what 20 cubic pounds and 5.5 cubic tons actually represents…..irt emissions.
Might want to add a brief slide (with graph as well) showing the following:
World Population:
Modern Man–(20,000 years 0 to 1 billion)
1830 – 1 Billion
———————–(97 years 1 to 2 billion)
1927 – 2 Billion
———————–(33 years 2 to 3 billion)
1960 – 3 Billion
———————–(14 years 3 to 4 billion)
1974 – 4 Billion
———————–(13 years 4 to 5 billion)
1987 – 5 Billion
———————–(12 years 5 to 6 billion)
1999 – 6 Billion
———————–(12 years 6 to 7 billion)
2011 – 7 Billion
———————-(and on to 8 & 9 billion)
(nearly 4 billion added since just 1960)
-13
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:17 am)(click to show comment)
-9
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:17 am)This video is slick and effective, however, General Motors is one the most polluting companies on the face of the planet. GM testified in front of Congress to not set emission reduction standards. As noble as your efforts were, the fox is guarding the henhouse.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:18 am)I’d like to think that changing to electric cars will solve all our problems, until I saw a documentary on coal mining. People in the coal mining states in the Appalachian Mountains are literally dieing due to coal pollution caused by “mountain topping” mining techniques, let alone the destruction of the mountains themselves. And, since we still get the majority of US coal from those mountains, I’m dubious about changing from oil to coal.
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:18 am)Lyle – Who can we get to make an informative video about the gas guzzlers we drive today and global excessiveness regarding the world’s oil supply?
Some Old Lady – Well my 13 year old grandson does the videos on the youtube. He made a funny video about a cat that really makes me smile everytime I see it.
Lyle – Perfect, bring him on board and let’s get this done ASAP!!!
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:19 am)Frustration is demand.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:19 am)I agree with Van about the AGW reference and also have similar thoughts about the solar and wind references. As soon as you put a political tilt to a piece like this, you lose a lot of folks. Electric vehicles have positive aspects even if the power comes from coal and nukes – which it probably will.
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:21 am)I think he was kidding…
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:22 am)Speaking of faking results.
That volcano info is bogus.
http://greyfalcon.net/carbon2
And we know it’s fossil carbon due to it’s lack of C14 carbon isotopes.
http://greyfalcon.net/c14
Yes there is a lag. However that would only be relevant if you bought into the false assumption that climate can only be controlled by 1 variable at a time.
Now when you add multiple variables it starts to make more sense:
http://greyfalcon.net/climate2
+4
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:27 am)Nice video- glad you included the peak oil graphs and middle east factor. I saw a great map of how the US bases are concentrated around the major oil fields in iraq. The most patriotic thing we can do is quit buying oil. Especially as batteries improve, electric is a clear winner. I’m glad to see GM committed to vehicles that can run without emissions and be fueled entirely from domestic sources. (And clean ones at that).
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:28 am)A very real solution is to retrofit your existing car into an advanced battery/electric motor. I hope new businesses that take this opportunity seriously and start springing up all over.
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:30 am)Great Video …
I do drive a PHEV and am eagerly awaiting my Pure Electric.
Steve
http://www.goldenoldy.org
The Sustainable Museum of Sustainable Transportation
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:32 am)I’m convinced (and have been for a long, long time). So, where do I get one?
-2
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:32 am)Why do we need to tell people what to do? Can’t they think through the issue for themselves and freely make a choice that works for them? I’d rather be wrong because I made a bad choice than have no freedom to choose at all. Is it just me? I hope this site gets back to informing rather than compelling. Just the facts please. Then, LOL, we can get back to arguing about which facts are true!
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:33 am)For credibility, you might want to edit ‘cubic pounds’ since there isn’t anything like that.
Also for credibility, you might want to tone down the relationship between co2 and climate change since many scientists to NOT agree on this and it may become a polarizing point. IMO, focus on America’s energy independence, that’s objective.
-2
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:34 am)Don’t confuse what the car is for consumers – it’s a plugin hybrid.
Ppoint out that the car “has” a petrol engine to let you do long journeys as you would normally!
I would add this:
“You could never charge it … if you want… but when electricity costs 1/5th of what gasoline does, and the car can run silently… what would you do?”
Also point out the grid has excess “night-time” capacity for 40million cars” to be charged.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:38 am)I applaud the effort in putting this video together. Lets hope they can get the cost down a bit to make it affordable to the masses. I would hate for Chevy to put this out of the reach of the typical consumer, and yes $30,000 + is out of the reach for the typical consumer. Anything in the $20,000 – $30,000 is a much better market.
Please do not fail me, Chevy.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:39 am)I know first-hand the damage that coal mining does to the environment and to the miners, but shifting transportation to electricity does not require additional coal plants – especially in the near-term. By the time the Volt and others are widely in use, there will be cleaner alternatives available to generate the extra electric power required. Given the wealth of coal available in the northeast US, I hope that cleaner, safer use of coal is among them.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:41 am)well…how to start this..
I come from Iceland an im looking forward to the electrical-car revolution but is it as green as people say.
In Iceland most of our electricity comes from geothermal heating but from were comes the electric in the US.
I dont think that im an envirormentalist but lets just say that im against newclear-power…..but anyhow….may the electrical-car be here soon and not later then yesterday….
best regards to you all..Helgi
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:42 am)Well the “market” is a Price setting mechanism.
And if the Price of something is made artificially low.
Either due to subsidies (Warfare)
Or due to unpaid externalities (Pollution & National Security Risk)
Then a Price setting mechanism is incapable of pointing towards an accurate result.
So how in the world can we expect the “Market” to handle this sort of thing by itself?
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:48 am)The Auto Law Suit was not my idea, but I don’t think I’m the only one who supports the State of California in their quest to protect the people and the environment.
Read about the pre-existing cases.
http://www.calcleancars.org/legal/auto_claims.pdf
http://www.calcleancars.org/legal/auto_claims.pdf
NPNS!
-9
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:51 am)This video looks like a bad powerpoint presentation from 10 years ago. I’d love to be able to drive an electric car, but I’m realistic enough to admit that they are not yet practical.
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:54 am)The video is right. But it looks to damn like a marketing video, that could come from GM. It will be hard for people to believe it. And the price, that people have to pay for the electrical car, will be high in the beginning.
I believe, it is the driving performance of electrical cars, that will lead to their breakthrough, not their “greenness”.
Kai
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:56 am)That was a lot of work Lyle, and the video may not go ‘viral’ on YouTube to get enough exposure.
I’ve been saying, you have enough ‘content’ for a major magazine publication:
Get it on the news stands of New York, San Francisco, Hollywood, Dallas, and Atlanta.
That would really get the word out.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:59 am)Just for the record, the number of registered vehicles in the U.S. has declined for each of the past three years. Using your analogy, if that trend continues, we will all be walking.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:04 am)Lyle, please fix “cubic pounds” and “cubic tons”. It’s lame.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:04 am)Generally, I liked it… the animation’s awfully jerky (PowerPoint?), but otherwise, a good video.
You might mention China. Not only are they rapidly driving up the consumption of oil (along with India), but they have realized there’s no catching up to the rest of the world on petrol-powered cars. So they’ve vowed to be #1 in electric vehicles. They already have a plug-in hybrid in full production, the BYD F3DM, which can go 60 miles on battery power alone (but the like Prius, can’t run battery-only at high speeds), and sells for $21,900. Warren Buffett liked them so much, he bought 10% of the company. They have 10,000 auto and battery engineers working on these technologies. BYD is planning to enter the US market in 2011. And this is just one… every Chinese automaker is working on both hybrid and full electric vehicles.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:04 am)I think it was great. Until I got to the part about “Global Warming”
I will not forward this to anyone. GW is a joke, just look out side. We had a very cold year in 2009 and record cold all over the world this winter.
GW give me a break. We do not fake GW to get us to change to electric. It only make us who support electric cars look out of touch.
We need stop supporting people who hate us by buying their oil. That’s the only reason.
Sorry GW is fake with out it, that was a great video.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:06 am)Very true! Although, they’re kind of unnecessary on a unicycle
Nice work Lyle!
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:06 am)RB “Given that GM is now a virtual government entity, you cannot watch this (visually) impressive video without the sense of a deep political bias.”
It’s too late now to undo the “bailouts”. What has been done by our inept government has been done….and has only made the economic situation worse in the long run….but….the GOOD NEWS is that GM has said it wants to re-pay us taxpayers. OK….the only way that can happen is if they sell cars.
The good news is….GM HAS been building a much, much better product of late. I think GM and the UAW finally “get it”….nothing is more important than QUALITY. I had all but given up on GM, switching to Subaru….because I need RELIABILITY…..I do not have time for break downs. The Subaru has been fantastic…..But last year t I also picked up an 09 Chevy…mostly for work….and have put 50K miles on it in only 17 months. It also has been impressive….no major problems of any kind. This, combined with the fact that GM has seen fit to “go the distance” with the technological milestone we know as the Volt has made me decide to give GM a “second chance”. If the quality of the Volt is top notch….I think GM and the Volt can make it…in spite of the horrible economy.
Good Video Lyle….in spite of the AGW stuff.
-4
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:10 am)Hey, just an FYI from a real people…
I will think about electric transportation when we can move 15-40 people on my “capitalist” work teams, hauling a 6000 pound trailer, about 80,000 miles per year. BTW, our funding for community youth development and volunteer work comes from Republican donations. A-hem…
Also, do let us know when Obama and all the other greenies rides to work in an electric car (no more big black Suburbans and Cadillacs, he has not earned it! I wish I could buy one of his used trucks.
I like my (2) OLD 4×4 Suburbans, and 15 pass. van with a trailer. We can do all kinds of good for the environment, including recycle our plastic, aluminum, paper, oil, and tires. I will never pay $30,000 for a hybrid anything. LESS technology for us please, simple, NO computerized stuff. We will maintain fix them ourselves.
Mike, Arizona
+7
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:12 am)This is an excellent video. It makes a very strong case for evolving into electric cars.
However, I would be careful about tying Volt’s success to belief in man-made global warming. That is a topic that is highly politicized and there is a very large segment of the population that does not believe in it. Which means a large group of buyer will dismiss the core message that electification is the direction we all need to pursue.
Yesterday I saw a video by the man who created the Weather Channel. He is a meterologist with 55 years of experience. His presentation illustrated the theory that global warming is normal and comes in cycles, some of which are tied to solar activity. Reasonable people do disagree with man-made global warming.
However, it is impossible to disagree with the fact that all this exhaust causes very serious health problems and the explosion of cars you forecast will only make things terribly worse. And, of course, the foreign oil point is also irrefuteable.
So why go into the global warming argument? There is plenty of great rationale for electric cars without straying into areas that can be debated. No need to alienate a large portion of the buying market.
Actually one of the great appeals of the Volt for me is that it is a duel-fuel car. I have gasoline and electricity in my home. If I lose either one, I can still get by on the other. Why not have the same assurances that my car will continue to operate if I lost one or the other?
I have recounted a few times on this site our experience in Atlanta when gas supplies were interrupted with no indication of when they would return. We had very long lines and intermittent violence at the pumps. That experience convinced me that Voltec is the best idea of all. Actually living through a gasoline shortage will make a convert out of you when nothing else will.
And shortages can come in many ways. Just the demand for cars you forecast will almost certainly create shortages that dramatically drive up prices to levels we have never seen. And that becomes another great, and hard to refute, case for Volt.
Lyle, you are amazing. I am sure everyone here agrees with that. And we dont know how you support this site as you do and still practice your craft.
Please keep up the great work!
Go VOLT!
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:12 am)Yeah, yeah, the cubic pounds thing is a boo-boo. We get it.
And as for AGW being a myth, I lean (strongly) that way myself. But this video is designed to appeal to the general public. Therefore I can see why Lyle would make mention of that. Besides, he did say “most experts believe,” which, while also debatable, at least indicates there is dissent.
Personally, the national security angle hits home a lot harder with me…
Edit: Minor cleanup, added bold.
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:14 am)#58
Excellent! Very encouraging. +1
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:15 am)The criticism of EVs has been that they simply move pollution from the tailpipe to the smokestack. So a cleaner grid would be one part of the solution. Out of curiosity, if the video showed a nuclear power plant would that generate a different reaction? To me it wouldn’t matter but I’m thinking for some people it would make a difference. If so I’d suggest that Lyle add that to the mix in his video.
On the market front, GM is doing quite well. Its sales are down but that’s just a reflection of having fewer brands. The remaining brands are doing either very well or decently with the exception of Cadillac, which is suffering from the lack of a top end model (hence the very nice XTS introduced at the Detroit Auto Show).
My view is that product drives sales. Nothing more complicated than that. It’s why Ford is doing so much better — it stopped messing around looking for silver bullets and started cranking out better vehicles. I’d look to Buick as the best indicator of whether sales follow product quality. It has the Enclave, the LaCrosse, and soon the new Regal. Those are all nice vehicles, and this lineup should do well.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:17 am)Another thing… it’s not entirely fair to compare the Volt to the Prius. I drive a Prius (2003 model), and it’s a great car. Most people miss the point that the Prius was originally designed to be a green vehicle — low pollution levels were the original driving factor, high mileage was just one means to that end. But it’s still a gasoline vehicle; the electricity it uses is the energy wasted by other vehicles, but it still comes from gasoline.
The Volt will be a fundamental shift toward electric vehicles. Today, you do need gasoline backup… today’s batteries don’t charge fast enough to make “Volt Stations” practical (15-30 minutes or more for a full charge on most Li-ion and NiMh chemistries, though some new anode and cathode materials are bringing this down to a potential of 5 minutes).
Comparing prices, consider that the Volt is moving to Li-ion, but specifically an improved cell that hopefully won’t die after 3 years and/or 500 charges, as most cellphone and laptop batteries do. Li-ion in general can offer twice the energy density of NiMh… Toyota is also experimenting with Li-ion cells, now, in a plug-in version of the Prius (undergoing fleet testing sometime this year).
But for some people (for example, each and every one who is CONSTANTLY harping on the death of the EV-1), this will be all or nearly all electric in practice, without the need to compromise on range. So really, see how the price compares to electric vehicles (Toyota was selling the RAV4-EV, the one Ed Begley Jr. drives, for $42,000, but they were subsidizing it, even at that price). If Toyota makes a version of the Prius that plugs in AND offers a functional all-EV range, then the door’s open for direct comparisons.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:20 am)#63
True that. +1 “Be careful what you ask for, you might get it.” It is just another huge problem which we have to solve to make all of this work. To its everlasting credit, the Obama EPA is currently taking a very hard look at these practices, which have been left to run amok for the last 8 years.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:22 am)#65
Well said! +1
-11
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:25 am)(click to show comment)
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:26 am)#78
And best regards to you. I really love the world wide participation here. Many thanks for your comments. Come back soon. +1
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:28 am)Ok the video was good until global warming was mentioned as a fact. So many bought into the lie to the point now we have to start to tax carbon emissions! Carbon… Big oil owners and World Order folks realize people are trying to make a change so they figure out a way to tax it. Wow, loss of revenue if your car gets 60+ MPG or you dont use gas at all. They will find a way to tax you, trying to remove yourself from investing in Terrorist OPEC nations.
Those “Global Warming” emails were not “hacked”. Scientist(s) released them to avoid FOIA hearings.
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:29 am)#24
Yeah, heavy on the “crappy denial” +1 The “crappy denial” here scares me to death. At times like this I am ready to believe that man will doom himself in the end.
-14
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:30 am)(click to show comment)
+7
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:32 am)#90
Nothing like a perfectly appropriate screen name, LOL.
I owe you all an apology. I am so used to clicking + that I did it here by accident. “-1″
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:32 am)John,
There are a couple issues with your idea.
As I see it a garage tends to be cold and wet (mine is at least) so the robot will need to be fully ‘weather sealed’ this will add to the cost
A ‘Roomba’ is not very powerful (I have one) there is no way it has the motor power to drag a power cord under a car and plug it in so you would need to upgrade the entire drive system again adding to the cost.
Honestly, just get in the habit of parking your Volt (I like saying that!) plugging it in and then unloading the groceries. It’s easier cheaper and more reliable.
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:34 am)#79
Well said. Outstanding! +1
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:39 am)I would love to see GM prosper. I have a Toyota Prius today.. my first non-US-made, non-US-branded car. I’d be really happy to go back to an American-made car, but only when they stop looking backwards and start looking forward. Volt IS looking forward, even if it’s not quite perfect out of the gate.
Sure they did. In fact, they were doing this in Europe for quite some time… I never understood why Fords seemed so much better in Germany than in the USA. Was I just homesick? I don’t think so.
Toyota and Honda build cars that should give you pretty trouble free service for 200,000 miles or more. There’s absolutely no reason GM or Ford can’t do that. When I get that, it’s awfully hard to justify buying a car that only goes half as far. Sure, some people are into the “new every three years” thing, and if that’s the only kind of car US makers want to make, I guess I’ll just have to look East again. But my Prius only has 120,000 miles on it, and it’s only kinda-sorta middle aged… should be going in for its first scheduled tune-up soon. My Fiero died at 87,000 miles, my Lynx died at 105,000 miles, my Talon TSi died at 94,000 miles, my Explorer died at 114,000 miles, though I did sell my ’61 T-Bird at over 120,000 miles.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:40 am)I love how people like to tout natialism when the companies only use nationalism to sell cars and line their pockets.
GM has stated that China is the next emerging market and will be building cars with that in mind and I can garuntee that the US market will become second. Just look at the New Sail car built by GM and China, it sells for 8500 dollars. Too bad they couldnt have built a car like that for the US Market.
As for my being a hater, nope I just use the same measure that most people do what is the best value for my money and guess what Toyota quality and price point is far better than that of GM.
Recently I have heard good things about Ford and will be looking at the Ford Fusion Hybrid since they have reached the quality level of toyota in recent years. But in the end the Car companies care about nothing but their bottom line so I will do the same, guard my bottom line.
+5
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:41 am)if you’re talking about John Coleman he didn’t actually start the weather channel but that’s beside the point. The point would be that he’s not a scientist he’s a TV personality, and one with a somewhat whacky personality at that, unless you think that a old guy dancing around on your TV screen is normal.
People need to get over thinking there is a controversy about global warming. There isn’t. When 95% of the serious scientific community agrees that something is true it probably is. It might not be true of course, science is hardly infallible, but if you have to bet the smart money would be on the scientists who publish in peer reviewed publications rather than on blowhard political pundits.
Let’s just look at the facts. We KNOW that releasing greenhouse gases into the atmosphere increases temperatures. That’s a fact you can reproduce in the laboratory. And we KNOW that burning fossil fuels releases greenhouse gases. That’s a second fact. Do you not agree these are facts? They are really incontrovertible, so the conclusion has to be that the direction of the impact is clear and we only have to determine the magnitude of that impact.
Determining the magnitude of the impact is the messy part. Obviously it is somewhat limited and can be cancelled by other events. For example, a volcanic eruption the size of Mount Tambora will cool the surface of the earth by up to 5 C, which is far more than the effects of the release of greenhouse gased from fossil fuels. Moreover, all the particulate pollution which frequently accompanies the burning of many fossil fuels cools rather than heats the planet. And of course there is a sun cycle, the one Coleman talks about. But the existence of all these things doesn’t disprove the basic tenet that releasing greenhouse gases increases the earth’s temperature.
But you know what, it really doesn’t matter. As Lyle’s video points out, there are many other reasons to avoid oil. National defense and national security. Check. Terrorism. Check. Health. Check. Economic growth. Check. Whatever floats your boat. If you don’t like one reason there are plenty of others to think about.
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:43 am)Good video; not what I was expecting (I thought it would be about an actual drive/ride from inside a BEV/EREV) but nevertheless a nice watch. However I’d suggest to be more careful to inform viewers that the GM corporation is not responsible for the content or affiliated with the production of any of your videos, Lyle. That said, it was 500% better than that dance fiasco of a video.
-5
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:45 am)According to Richard Dawkins “Greatest Show on Earth” p. 367
“We’ve been land animals for about 400 million years, and we’ve walked on our hind legs for only about the last 1 per cent [sic] of that time. For 99 per cent of our time on land, we’ve had a more-or-less horizontal backbone and walked on four legs.”
So 1 percent of 400 million is 4 million years, contrasted with your statement of humans travelling by foot for 1 million years. To be precise, you’d have to say we traveled by foot 400 million years, albeit on all fours. If you stated we’ve traveled on hind legs for 4 million years that would be okay too. But your 1 million years is way off the mark.
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:48 am)Perhaps. But making your own, would for many folks, add to the ritual of smoking and deepen the addiction.
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:51 am)Until the Volt costs $20,000 or less, there’s no way I could ever afford one. I can’t afford $700+ per month car payments right now on one of these cars. I’d be much more inclined to buy a brand new Hyundai Accent or Hyundai Elantra or something. Better bang for the buck and a fraction of the price.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:55 am)I have to echo and elaborate on those saying to go lighter on the global warming issue. It has more risk than reward. In fact anyone who watched the entire video can figure out the BIGGEST weakness in the argument.
If we’ve already burned half of the oil that is in the ground, and here we are the last couple years starting a cooling trend, then how much more harm can it do to burn the other half of the oil thats in the ground. The obvious answers is not enough to make any difference in the big picture.
Talking about Global warming just muddies the water when there are easily provable issues that justify going 100% BEV/EREV. And another year or 2 of cooling trend can risk losing all of the inertia we have gained for EVs if people think its about Global Warming. So I really recommend dropping all the global warming (replace with pollution), and FOCUS on economic and GEOPOLITCAL issues.
All the wars and human misery fighting over oil is reason enough.
Exporting american dollars and jobs for the imported oil when we could use that money to create jobs here instead of terrorists over there is reason enough.
The message really needs to be made crystal clear and without dispute. Only a moron can argue that Japan didn’t invade China and Germany the Crimea for their OIL. No one can argue that we are fighting wars and keeping carrier strike groups on constant patrol to keep the oil lanes open. No one can argue that our economy collapses if the flow of oil stops or the prices skyrocket. I could go on and on but I think the message needs to be Economic and Geopolitical, drop the climate change hocus pocus.
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:57 am)An inductive device would be more elegant and less likely to break.
I have several Roombas and they are not the most reliable tools (toys?) I have owned.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:58 am)You clearly have not the slightest understanding of what’s meant by global warming. There hasn’t been remotely enough warming to affect regular weather cycles… some winters are cold, some less so. Factors like El Niño/La Niña (the southern oscillation) have a far more profound effect on the weather of the day.
Global warming is an average, over years, and over the world. One obvious sign is that most glaciers are shrinking. Another is the fact that vast stretches of the Arctic Ocean are becoming navigable in the summer.
Another factor is weather. Global warming today has far more effect on the severity of the weather you see than the kind of whether. All weather is ultimately driven by heat energy. Most heat in the system, more evaporation, stronger winds, etc. So you might see more rain or more snow, larger storms, stronger winds. It doesn’t mean you get to have a beach party on Cape Cod in January.
Global warming is very, very real. Deny it at your peril. However, your point is also just as valid… we really do want to get away from oil that’s controlled by foreign countries. Even if the folks of the Middle East were our very best friends, we as a country are foolish to give them that level of control over our economy. And they’re not.. it’s not even the people of the Middle East in charge, it’s a relatively few Shieks and Kings and other questionable types, not people who share many of the American values. Particularly little things like Freedom and Democracy.
As oil becomes less important, their power will fade.
This is a good reason that freedom from oil should not be a partisan issue… it’s good for everyone in the USA. Even those who don’t believe in science.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:02 pm)Very well said DonC.
The thing that drives me up the wall, personally, is when someone grabs onto one piece of the complex global climate puzzle and runs with it. Prime example would be the whole sun cycle thing. To think that educated scientists who spend their entire careers working on this line of research haven’t taken these things into account already is naive.
I’ve personally worked with some of the climate models out there, looked into the science and math behind them, and I can say without doubt that they take into account WAY more things than anyone outside the serious scientific climate research community would even dream were part of the puzzle.
Climate change is a theory the way evolution is a theory, which is the way gravity is a theory or relativity is a theory. The amount of peer reviewed scientific evidence is overwhelming. To a scientist, and established theory is more like what the layperson would consider practically indisputable.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:06 pm)Today I had to pickup my son’s friend for school. His parents called and asked if we could. When I got there, the child’s dad was behind his 6-7 month old Chevy Silverado Crew Cab cursing it to hell. Why? Because his 6-7 month old car poured out all his tranny fluid on his driveway and down the drain with the rain.
Although he was positive the repair was going to be under warranty, he swore up an down to never buy a Chevy product again.
Incident’s like these that I “know” of make it difficult for me to purchase a GM product. GM has been building cars for years and years, IMHO, there’s no reason this happened. Now coming into such new tech like the Volt, it’s even more disconcerting.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:07 pm)“Presently the scientific consensus on climate change is that human activity is very likely the cause for the rapid increase in global average temperatures over the past several decades.[25]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change
+5
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:08 pm)Tom,
It’s been a while since this chestnut has surfaced!
You are referring to the non-aerodynamic no rear seat headroom Camaro-like mock up styling exercise right?
It might just be time to grow up a little and realize that most people do not want a car that stands way out from the crowd. They would have sold a few of the showcar bodied cars but I for one would not have bought one. I don’t think I’m alone in this.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:09 pm)Are you kidding? I think it is 95% of people don’t know how to think critically in this world is more like it.
There are all kinds of things that large amounts of people are very sure of themselves, but they are totally wrong.
There are still people who think socialism is a good idea judging by the last election. It works ok if some countries are socialist as long as there are enough capitalist countries left to create innovation (one of the problem with our health care system is it is innovating TOO fast and that is driving costs up, but those socialist countries that never innovate can benefit from our discoveries).
People just grab onto idealogies that feel right and don’t think things through. That is always something that irks me is democrats or republicans that just buy the whole ideology without thinking it through.
Rush Limbaugh for instance drives me crazy. He’ll make perfect sense one moment talking about we need a society that promotes innovation, rewarding hard work, freedom, or may other things, then in the next minute he’s talking some total nonsense that we can solve our energy problem by lowering taxes or something (he is not a big proponent of EVs).
I can’t stand either party.
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:15 pm)Eventually, those cars will be electric (or at least non-gasoline) as well. I would concentrate on another option: E85. You can displace a bunch of foreign oil by burning USA-produced alcohol/methanol.
One of the main points of an electric car is to avoid using foreign oil.
Everyone can contribute to reducing foreign oil consumption. Buying an electric car, for now, will be a higher-end way to accomplish the goals. Conservation and using other alternatives will also help.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:17 pm)While I have unbounded respect for Richard Dawkins, I have to point out the fallacy in your argument. The quote was “we humans”… yes, our ancestors have traveled by foot for a good 400 million years, give or take. But not as humans.
If you want modern humans, it’s only been about 200,000 years. If you want to go all the way back to Homo Erectus, then it’s been as long as 1.8 million years. He used tools, lived in social groups, but probably lacked modern human-like speech. Two steps back, you get Homo Habilis, the first of the “Homo” genus, at about 2.4 million years ago. He looked far more ape-like, but used simple stone tools.
But I don’t think he was trying to be paleoanthropologically correct here.
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:20 pm)#41 RonR64 – VERY well said.
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:21 pm)Hey Lyle… One more thing…
It would be really cool if you would submit an ‘op-ed’ piece of your own to those magazines the give you on an airline flight… I forget the names, but each airline has a captive audience, many of whom are professionals and/or decision makers, and the information in your video (turned into a nice article which also plugs GM-Volt.com) would also get the word out.
Just a thought.
-2
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:22 pm)I’m sorry, but this video is nothing but liberal propaganda. This video will do more to chase people away from the Volt than to draw them to it.
The lure of better technology and the promise of less or zero dollars spent at the gas pump are far more enticing than these ‘fear tactics.’
I have long been a fan of the Volt, Tesla, and other offerings, but not because the world is going to go up in flames if I don’t buy one. I want a zero emission vehicle which performs equal to or better than today’s best cars and, frankly, the sooner I never have to pay for gasoline again, the better.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:23 pm)I gotta ask a stupid question and yeah, i’m late on it…..
In the previous thread that GM will make a profit and the cost will be low 30′s, then whay the hell limit the production? If you’re in the market to make $$$ why limit yourself to a meager 10,000 the first year?
Yeah yeah, I know new tech but if it’s the car to save your ass, then save your ass.
Or are they afraid it will be over promised and under deliver?
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:24 pm)Very good video.
But I am afraid if I will start to spread this video it will be too hypocritical
PS. I always wondered why global warning is considered as a bad thing. Temperature outside of my house is -25C (-18F) now and still decreasing. It is freezing out there.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:25 pm)Not to diminish Lyle’s piece, but I would like to see one also along this line.
LJGTVWOTR
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:25 pm)Love the music track, which one was that again?
Ok Nice that the long awaited GM-Volt is coming out, just the Car?
What about a small van, or small cab truck? Then again for us to do our part do we need to to make these cheaper, are you all and do I mean all the maufactures selling cars that use oil, gasoline to other markets which will be far greater than 170 mill. By this Video, I say you will have a greater problem on your hands, if these are not cheaper so you can swamp the market.
One can’t promote the useage of Global Warming to us, while selling to much larger markets somewhere else.
The Electric car was invented along time ago, just suppressed.
Still I like the design, just how useful to the regular Joe’s lke us, except on date night.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:26 pm)lol……
Then why “Showcase” it like they did? In all honesty, it looks like the good ol “bait n switch”.
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:31 pm)“There are still people who think socialism is a good idea judging by the last election. It works ok if some countries are socialist as long as there are enough capitalist countries left to create innovation (one of the problem with our health care system is it is innovating TOO fast and that is driving costs up, but those socialist countries that never innovate can benefit from our discoveries).”
Socialism is not a concrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and programme; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalisation (usually in the form of economic planning), but sometimes oppose each other. A dividing feature of the socialist movement is the split between reformists and revolutionaries on how a socialist economy should be established. Some socialists advocate complete nationalisation of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
If market socialism doesn’t work, explain why China is kicking our butt. What’s clear is that any blunt-instrument ideology that ignores facts on the ground, and anyone attempting to speak, judge, or rule on those terms, is doomed to failure. I’d like to see more people discussing more details of where market economy works best and where socialism works best, and where blends of various ideologies can be seen working well. If all we do is throw blunt instruments at each other, we all look stupid and we learn nothing.
Its historically obvious why pure capitalism needs rails and socialist protections, and it’s historically obvious why pure socialism in the form of communism needs opportunistic paths for people to succeed without the full burden of total command and control because of the issues of corruption and incomplete and timely knowledge. Even in our country you will see massive command and control in the corporatist organization. Why doesn’t anybody sneeze at that???
+6
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:35 pm)It *should* be tough to extrapolate from an issue with one vehicle, of one model, of thousands of copies of that vehicle, of the many models fielded by a company – and draw the conclusion that you shouldn’t buy any vehicles from that company. I know it’s a natural thing to do so, but you have a TINY piece of a much larger population and are generalizing to condemn the whole population. It’s a little like having one bad date and saying that you’ll never again have anything to do with females.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:36 pm)I don’t think there’s such a thing as “cubic pounds” or “cubic tons”.
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:37 pm)May I also add (128) performance. EV’s are capable of performance comparable to (better than?) ICE’s.
-10
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:38 pm)(click to show comment)
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:40 pm)#106
My S-10 is going strong at 218K miles and my wife’s Impala ditto at 127K.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:50 pm)Because they can’t know what they don’t know. Until they get a significant # of wheels on the road and gather tons of data, they shouldn’t risk exposing promising tech to the bad PR of recalling a bazzillion Volts. JMO, but look at how a SINGLE bad transmission caused a reaction.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:50 pm)If you understand evolution, you really can’t say “we” as being distinctly Homo sapien, or Homo etc as there was never a time along the lineage where we could distinguish “us” from our ancestors. Each generation looked very much like the previous generation. It is only now that we look back and create arbitrary categories and name them for our understanding. The video says “for 1,000,000 years man has traveled by foot”. I won’t bother with the culturally insensitive use of the word “man” instead of the more correct term “human”, but I took the word “man” to mean “we” and went from there. My argument is not fallacious at all unless you can cite the specific fallacy I employed, however we all may be suffering from semantics. I was simply trying to offer some info to try and shore up the video so that it is factually correct and uses the most correct terminology and years. From what I can find, Homo erectus is not part of our ancestory but a distant cousin, so bringing up that species is irrelevant. Cheers! I love this topic, however. http://humanorigins.si.edu/ha/a_tree.html
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:53 pm)#108
Naaaahhh, this is America. Blowhard political pundits trump scientists who publish in peer reviewed publications every time.
Poor old Dr. Dennis. No good deed goes unpunished. Too much truth will get you in trouble every time, LOL.
BTW, +1
+6
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:54 pm)>> And by now we know that the “most experts” that claim that global warming is caused by human activities are a bunch of crooks.
This is called PROJECTION: Whereby the Oil industry, and coal industry attempt to steal the future from Real Viable Solutions to Global Warming, as the Antarctic Ice Sheets crack, in essence CROOKS.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:54 pm)Good video. It’s just too soon to start a viral campaign. All the EV makers will be sold out as soon as they deliver and there will be long wait lists. All this with no public awareness campaign or advertising. It’s when sales start to slow and manufacturers are up to speed that you have to go after the general public. Right now, this just builds frustration and way more demand than there is supply. Too many high priced and limited supply EVs will build the public perception that EVs are just a rich elite person’s toy.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:56 pm)Maybe. But plain water vapor has a much more effective greenhouse effect than CO2. The issue is whether humankind is causing an effect not whether CO2 levels and global temperature have a graphical relationship.
In most people’s minds, pollution is a much easier issue to grasp and ‘fix’. The causality is similar, but, the ability to get people to change is much higher when they can actually see that their air is turning brown and their water tastes funny.
Convincing someone that +2 degrees in temperature rise is a big deal (which it could be if it is a trend) is a way harder sell. I’m a fairly well educated individual and I’m not convinced that man’s CO2 emissions are doing any harm at all. I *am* convinced that putting tons of particulates and other pollutants into the air, water, and earth is bad.
CO2 is a naturally-occurring gas. Petrochemical vapors, complex compounds, non-biodegradable plastics, and other man-made pollutants are not naturally-occurring and are causing massive destruction of our environment.
+5
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:58 pm)Really extraordinary assortment of trolls today.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (12:59 pm)We all appreciate very much your video. Well done. G/W: There are cogent arguments both sides. Whatever… as an engineer my approach has always been – why take chances? If G/W is real it’ll be too late; and, if its more a cyclical deal no harm, no foul. I have seen first hand pollution damage.
A relative as a kid lost an eye about 1920 swimming in a wholly polluted Delaware River (Phila. Pa.) I remember the same Delaware c. WWII being just like a sewer, maybe worse. Now the river’s relatively clean. This is how unbridled pollution screwed-up our rivers before 1900. A few miles up from Washington’s Crossing I spent many summers at Treasure Island Boy Scout camp – the Delaware then was perfectly clean and gorgeous about a mile wide.
On the other hand, this well could have been a video concerning overpopulation. For as Asia Westernizes demand exponentially outstrips supply.
The oil reserve limitations however cannot be refuted. Can anyone doubt OPEC would dump down to the last drop if they thought the electric car would be the dominating mode of transportation in ten years. One set of experts believe EV’s will make up 0.33% of 2015 car sales. That’s a very long ways off from EV’s dominating anything. Nonetheless, you can bet the farm OPEC will increase supply – not so much because EV’s are in big time production – but on news of a EV breakthrough; A 1000 mile range Li-ion battery.
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:00 pm)Howdy Captain, Long time no chat!
It was a CAR SHOW prop after all… “Showcasing” is pretty much what these things are about, right?
Over the years pretty much every car company has built concept cars with no production intent whatsoever, they are simply to create ‘buzz’ to bring attention to that companies production product.
The original Volt concept was exactly that.
-9
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:00 pm)At $40,000 plus TAX and Lic.,easily be closer to $50,000 out the door… ha, the Volt is only for the rich..Hopefully some car manufacture will come out with something similar for the middle class.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:06 pm)To think that educated scientists who spend their entire careers working on this line of research would pass off as fact an opinion printed in a magazine is naive.
Oh wait…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1244067/Climate-change-based-cold-facts.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Ramesh-turns-heat-on-Pachauri-over-glacier-melt-scare/articleshow/5474586.cms
+5
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:07 pm)The best reason for electric cars? Almost anything can be turned into electricity. This includes the wind, damed up water, the sun, natural gas, coal, gasoline, Hydrogen, ethanol, rotting landfills and yes, even crap can be turned into electricity. Electricity is also easy to distribute since most every home has an outlet.
The key has always been the storage of electricity in a vehicle so that it is lightweight, cost effective and has a lot of range. We are approaching this and the small gasoline engine is a good stop gap measure to use so that electric vehicles become more common. This will spur their growth, leading to more competition and a higher degree of innovation towards a better storage system for electricity.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:07 pm)Yeah, but evolution is only a theory….. (just kidding DonC)
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-13
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:08 pm)(click to show comment)
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:11 pm)Tag, I have worked in a production facility for many years. When a problem is found it’s almost too late as over 8,000 have already been built. In this case the problem was not found till after the buyer experienced it. That’s part of mass production. When you make one mistake, it continues through till someone finds it, by then products are on the shelf. In this guys case it’s the second time his new car is going in for repair. I didn’t bother asking what the other time was. He was a little too pissed off.
I consider my 96 Saturn SL2 “luck of the draw” in that I have had little problems other than my recent starter intermittent issue. I’ll keep fixing it till the engine blows or tranny dies. Till then, as long as I have no car pmt on it it’s perfectly fine.
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:11 pm)I race cars. Save the oil for that! Well, I guess that’s “special” fuel at $12 per gallon. Kidding aside, has anyone done a study on the pollution effects of mining rare earth to produce magnets? Are magnets recyclable? They better be from the looks of the problems with rare earth production in China (where most rare earth comes from). Every technology has it’s problems, electric, hydrogen, nuclear. The worst problem is short-sighted thinking. As long as there is a total environmental plan for electric ie, byproducts of mfg., impact of waste and scrap, battery pollution, etc., then we can say it is good for Mother Earth.
If it’s a full speed “we gotta get to market and deal with that later” strategy, then we are in for more heartache. Be good to Mother.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:12 pm)Again, to think that climatologists haven’t taken water vapor into account is naive. This is well understood, and is taken into account in climate models.
CO2 is naturally occurring, but taking a massive amount that was sequestered underground and releasing it in a short period of time will have an unnatural effect.
+5
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:14 pm)I would simply ask why GM is not a solution provider when in fact they are preparing to release the highest mileage production vehicle and/or the most practical electric vehicle for mass consumption.
These thousands of electric garage cars are great but I have never even seen one. They are of little to no significance on the grand scale.
If GM is such a bad actor and of course all of the other companies are better, where in the world are their electric cars. Why can’t I get an electric Toyota, BMW or Peugeot today. These come from countries with high gas prices and ample electricity. If GM is a capitalist pig company for not producing electric cars, what are these other companies. Capitalist Hogs?
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:26 pm)You have a coupe good points, Baker made a very decent electric car in the early 1900′s
A hybrid by at least one definition is a car with both mechanical and electric drive, the Volt only has electric drive so is not technically a hybrid.
I believe that most people will not buy a BEV because of range anxiety issues, I won’t.
The Volt is the first and only electric car that I would even consider.
The Fisker is still vaporware and even if it see’s the light of day it’ll be out of my price range.
A supposedly 100 mile (160 km) ranged BEV at 20c is one thing, it’ll be MUCH less at -25c with the heater blowing hard with stiff bearings and generally sticky cold metal bits. I WILL NOT put my wife at risk with something that cannot be quickly refueled and likely could run out of fuel. (In this case battery charge) In the depths of the winter cold I expect that the Volt will run it’s engine a good part of the time.
I’m normally a pretty positive person but in winter the gas tank is half empty. This is range anxiety in a nutshell.
There is not a chance in ‘heck’ that I would consider any BEV, I am not alone.
Crediting GM for a move that the entire auto industry made is giving them a lot of respect! I had no idea you were such a fan Eric!
We’ll call you GM-Eric from now on!
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:27 pm)The water vapor feedback is very poorly understood by the UN panel and they admit so in their report.
“In spite of these improvements, there has been no apparent narrowing of the uncertainty range associated with cloud feedbacks in current climate change simulations. A straight-forward approach of model validation is not sufficient to constrain the models efficiently and a more dedicated approach is needed.”
They apparently assumed cloud cover would not change in their original report on the subject. They pass this off as scientific consensus.
-10
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:27 pm)(click to show comment)
-12
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:29 pm)(click to show comment)
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:29 pm)Haha! I see you’ve been down that road a time or two.
The gorilla in the room that car companies don’t want to talk about is the reason to own a car in the first place. If it wasn’t for the post WWII break in traditional built environment promoted by GM beginning at the Futurama Exhibit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74cO9X4NMb4 most of us would not need cars. We bought the Futurama idea hook line and sinker and it was simply a marketing idea GM dreamed up because people didn’t want cars because they didn’t have anywhere to drive them, and the places to drive them were too congested with trolleys, street cars, buses, trains, pedestrians, and horses. GM invented the need of the car, and forced us into single family detached houses on suburban tracks through zoning and federal restrictions on home loans to only this type of housing. Now we’re paying for it big time. What GM needs to do is get into housing and build nice walkable urban places. For more info read http://www.amazon.com/Option-Urbanism-Investing-American-Dream/dp/1597261378
I’m not so much anti-car, but I’m not anti-pedestrian and anti-mass transit either. The transportation mix we have due to our built environment is the real problem and it needs to be fixed faster than it is. Hope to see most of ya’ll living dowtown some day, riding the rail out to the beautiful countryside while you read a nice book, and renting a car for the weekend joy ride. Our country has become quite illiterate because we are slaves to the wheel.
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:33 pm)I agree with most of this but, ever the optimist, I don’t think that there will *BE* a slow down in sales anytime soon. Low productions and high demand will suck up the available Volts for at least a year – probably 2 years. By that time, assuming that the Volt warrants it, word of mouth will increase demand exponentially. JMO.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:35 pm)Lyle, Good video but I think you should have taken a different tack. Repubs will just dismiss it as environmentalism once you who flaming globes. Just focus on the money-where it goes to support terrorism and where it could go, which is locally to make jobs.
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:36 pm)It does sound wrong. But according to the Google calculator:
1 cubic pound = 0.093324833 kg3 and 1 cubic (short) ton = 746 598 664 kg3
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:38 pm)All of science is not perfect, nor are all scientists. The scientific process is iterative, and the debate and challenge/defence of one’s work is an integral part. One must look to the entire body of knowledge as a whole. I could find lots of examples where science has stumbled along the way, but that’s not the point.
There will always be debate surrounding the forefront of scientific enquiry. It is this process that allows science to weed out the bad and retain the good over time. This is why, after a large amount of recearch has been done science can be so confident. Science is not infallable, mistakes are made and corrected over time, but that’s not a good enough excuse to throw out the entire body of work. While there is still debate surrounding climate modeling, the body of knowledge surrounding the mechanisms of climate change is sizeable and well varified. We may not know precicely the magnitude or timeline of the effects, but we do know that there are effects happening. Effects that are signifigant enough to cause alarm.
Your microwave works. Your car runs. Your lightbulbs turn on. Advances in medical technology are successful at healing people who could not be healed before. All due to scientific recearch. All testaments to the fact that scientists, as a whole, are capable of finding objective truth.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:44 pm)You’ll be lucky if there’s one to test drive, IMHO.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:46 pm)Do you really believe that GM “forced us into single family detached houses on suburban tracks through zoning and federal restrictions on home loans to only this type of housing.” Maybe it’s just because I’ve always lived in rural/small town areas (as did my parents and grandparents), Our country is huge and a lot of people live outside of *small* towns. In Penna, when there is a home game at Penn State, IT becomes the third largest city in the state. I’m having a hard time “seeing it”.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:47 pm)What effect has happened. The temperatures we see now and the weather patterns are all within the norms of history.
A small group of scientists have tried to deny this and hype the weather patterns but lets face it, there is no real change.
Temperatures were warmer in the 1930s (and the middle ages)
Hurricains were worse in the 1950s and have been really calm lately. Even Katrina was not really a big hurricain it just happened to overun a poorly maintained levy into a poor city. The hurricain damage was small compared to the flooding.
The polar bear population has doubled since the 1970s.
These are all issues that the scientists are trumpeting. Everything is blamed on man made global warming. They have overplayed their hand and lost the scientific method. Now they must pay with a skeptical public and more and more skeptical scientists. The warmists have a 10-15 year head start but the tide will change as more and more research will come out to show that the theories have no statistical significance.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:49 pm)The video is interesting and well done. However, the statements regarding the cause of global warming are certainly questionable.
An excellent report offering the science on the other side of the issue may be found at:
http://www.nipccreport.org/frontmatter.html
My desire to drive a Volt stems from the fact that oil is a finite commodity and we must lessen our dependence on it as soon as possible.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:50 pm)Tagamet is right. Rural communities have always been the way in this countries. We tried city living and found that we had to lock our doors, put bars on the windows, and put up with crime, noise, and rude neighboors. Add to that high taxes and poor performing schools and many intellegent people flee the cities. That has nothing to do with GM.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:50 pm)Your excellent message is lost in poor video quality. When people outside of the inner core view it, it appears cheap and made on Windows Movie Maker. Find someone with the appropriate video editing software and remake this video. It will never go viral when the quality undermines anything positive you are putting out.
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:55 pm)Great Video Lyle……..Your enthusiasm for ev’s is contagious
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:56 pm)Funny, I don’t read nearly the same level of incompetence in that statement as you seem to.
They are saying that they haven’t been able to constrain the uncertainty any further, and need a more dedicated model validation to do so. This is not the same as saying it’s poorly understood.
A scientist could be 99% confident and still say there’s more work to be done. There is a huge discrepancy between what scientists generally consider error and uncertainty, and what laypeople percieve as uncertainty. The truth of cutting edge science is not black and white, there is always uncertainty. That’s the nature of the business. Scientists know this, but laypeople see uncertainty and assume it’s much larger than it really is. In an established field, scientists are often debating about semantics that are invisible to the general public, that do not necessarily affect the overal validity of the general theory.
For a scientist to say “this model didn’t work as well as we’d hoped, we need to try something slightly different” isn’t an admission of failure, it’s just a step in the process.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (1:58 pm)That’s the point! Why pump out 8K vehicles with a problem and then pump out ANOTHER 8K with the same problem while waiting for the issue to be discovered?
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:02 pm)I basically agree. However, I don’t believe that these concepts are ‘well understood’ or that I am naive.
I don’t agree that is there is proven causality between mankind’s emissions and any effect on global temperature. I work with computers and they aren’t all that smart. You can push a model to say whatever you want it to say.
As soon as a climatologist can tell me what the exact temperature on my back porch will be on October 25, 2010 at 7:03am, then, I will believe that their computer model is complex enough to extrapolate 20 years into the future from a mere 30 years of data.
And the hockey-stick graph in Lyle’s presentation has been disavowed. It was put together from core-sample and measured data that don’t have anything to do with each other.
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:05 pm)They said poorly understood. And they are prone to overplay their hand.
The bottom line in many peoples mind is that this issue is not worthy of the resources that are beinig lined up to fight it. As humans we must assess our risks and try to minimize them. Worrying about things that are not the most risk significant is a waste of money.
There is no proof that the climate has changed outside of normal bounds.
There is no proof that the climate will change outside of normal bounds. The models quite frankly are very rudimentary when it comes to a true global energy balance.
There is no proof that higher temperatures will spell gloom and doom for mankind. Temperatures were apparently warmer in the middle ages and we made out just fine.
An ice age is far more problematic than warming. Look at the species in the tropics compared to the species at the poles.
Thank God for greenhouse gases blanketing the earth. Without them we would quickly go into an ice age.
Over the last 150 years, for every 10,000 air molecules, we now have 1 additional CO2 molecule. For that, we are supposed to spend untold Trillions.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:06 pm)(Sadly) *uncontested*.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:07 pm)Being an naturally selfish person why would I want to convince my friends to want an electric car? That would just introduce more competition for the 1st year Volt than I already have, wouldn’t it?
Nice job tho. You do need to drop the references to ‘Global Warming’ as ‘science’ is very much clouded about the cause and effects of the current 150 year (.6F) warming trend. FYI, the correlation between rise in CO2 and temperature over the last 100 years is something like .17, meaning the correlation is almost non-existent. There’s a much higher correlation between temperature rise & fall and increase/decrease in low level cloudiness (.83) during the last 30 years. While there are some effects on climate from human activity, I do not think it is (or will be) as severe as the AGW crowd would have you believe.
+6
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:10 pm)I’m a car guy and a tech guy and I want a Volt. I have been reading this site for a long while but think it is a major mistake to try to convince/scare anyone into buying a Volt by invoking Global Warning. If I thought GM was doing this (instead of one individual) it would negatively affect my desire for a Volt.
Please layoff this tactic as the Volt can stand on it’s own.
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:14 pm)Gasoline will not be cheap much longer.There is a simple law to explain that : supply and demand.
The current course of action, i.e. burn all the oil you can, is unsustainable in the long term.
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:14 pm)Pretty good presentation, except there is no such thing as a “Cubic Pound” or “Cubic Ton” ~ fix these mixed up units and your sci-cred will be improved.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:15 pm)Ho boy. Ok. The first thing to understand is that weather patterns and climate aren’t the same thing. I don’t mean to be condesending, but that’s very basic to the understanding of climate change. When I see someone relate weather to climate my first thought is, this person needs to go back and gain a much better understanding of what he/she is talking about.
There was a good post a while earlier on this as well.
The current global temperature isn’t the only factor, also important is the rate of change. The severity of one hurricane isn’t as important as the global frequency and severity of extreme weather events on average. You are assuming that Polar Bear populations are entirely dependant on temperature. They are not. There are a host of factors affecting polar bear populations.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:22 pm)Thats bs and you know it. Keep watching Fake news…
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:27 pm)obviously. But over the past 20 years every warm day has been evidence of global warming.
The warmists spent a great deal of effort to prove 1998 was warmer than the 1930s. That has been shown to be a fraud. The 1930s were slightly warmer. We had dust bowls.
When 1988 was warmer, that was global warming. When the 1930s are warmer, that is a weather variation.
Do you see the trend here. It is the warmist who want to claim that things have been steady for millenia and now want to claim that weather is global warming. The hockey stick is the best example. Micheal Mann had to eliminate past variations to show that the recent warming is significant. It is when you ignore what is happening now and look at the larger record that you see that nothing too significant is happening. It has happened before. I am looking at the big picture. I think the warmists are using the weather to prove their point.
We will agree to disagree here.
We can agree that Lyle had a good idea on the video. I hope he succeeds in promoting electric cars.
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:29 pm)The evolution of man image at the start is wrong.
It did not take 1 million years for man to evolve from the apes. It took 15 million years. Man’s history is 15 million years long. This is an important distinction.
-2
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:35 pm)Which Volt are we talking about? Bob Lutz announced at the Detroit auto show that GM is looking at releasing a all electric version that of course doesn’t have the gas engine and related components. In my opinion this will obsolete the first version that is inefficient and requires the driver to lug around all of the gas components even if they are rarely used….
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:40 pm)Interesting point. However, I think it buttresses the other side moreso than AGW. Given that the rate of temperature change has been much higher in the past (both for increasing and decreasing temperatures) both the recent past (1700-1750) temps decreased at a rate of over 2C/decade) when CO2 levels were not increasing I don’t think it provides a lot of support for the CO2 is the cause of the current warming.
Actually I think the current warming is a combination of human effects, primarily land use changes of a broad scale (growth of cities into megalopolises and conversion of prairie/forest to farms) and natural cycles (ongoing recovery from the Little Ice Age). I doubt CO2 (at least the levels we can put into the air ourselves) has had or will have a significant effect. It will have some, but not much.
-2
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:40 pm)I can see that we will have to agree to disagree. I am concerned though, that you seem to be lumping all credible scientists into the group “the warmists”. This, like many of your arguments, are simplistic. I don’t say this to be condesending, just that they don’t take into account the complexity that is inherent in this issue. There is a lot of uncertainty on the forefront of climate recearch and modeling recearch, that is normal, and that is due to the great deal of complexity surrounding the science and what we understand of it thus far. You are expecting science to be able to give you a precise black and white answer where there is none. But that’s ok. Behind the uncertainty is a host of good, solid validated recearch and evidence to help guide you through the uncertainty.
I suggest you refrain from taking that uncertainly and using it to throw out decades of good science. There are a lot of good people out there doing good work, just trying to find the truth. I suggest you learn more about the science, and not just pop science and media pseudo science floating out there, but learn enough of the real science, pro and con, to make an educated judgement.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:42 pm)Given the Government’s tendency to go green right now, and the fact that the Government owns I think 60% or so of GM, why are they wasting time on building GM’s long list of ICE cars? Make every car electric drive now. If you say performance would be a problem for the Camaro, Mustang, and Saab Turbo types, I think Tesla has proven otherwise.
-3
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:42 pm)2 much horse pucky. CO2 does not cause global heating; the more the better. But electric cars are still great. Unfortunately, the Volt is barely electric. The TeslaMotors Model S is a far better car and deal.
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:43 pm)#140
“Too true to be funny”, as my old always Daddy used to say. +1
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:47 pm)#143
Sad but true. +1
+8
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:55 pm)The Volt is essentially coal and nuclear powered.
Want to do something for energy independence? – support nuclear power.
Want to limit CO2 emissions?- quit breathing or support nuclear power.
CO2 is not a pollutant. Mercury and sulfur emissions are a different story.
They do not come from nuclear power plants.
All windmills and solar cell installations are capitally redundant until these new batteries allow us to effectively store their energy. The cart is way in front of the horse.
If we had a national campaign to build nuclear power plants – the price of oil would quickly stabilize, unemployment would decrease, electric rates could stabilize and US manufacturers could have unlimited access to clean energy. But no, we would rather rave like Greeniacs and tilt at windmills.
Before you start, nukes can supply all our power – not just base load. And the only reason they are expensive is because of us, our irrational fear, and our KOW-TOW to moronic environmentalists.
Sorry for the rant.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:58 pm)Except that, if the rate of chance is significantly increasing, we could be within historic norms today, and well outside of them faster than we expect. Thus, rate of change becomes more important as an indicator today than temperature.
The more we reduce the planet’s natural capacity to deal with CO2, the more the CO2 we release from sequestration has an effect. Natural cycles are certainly working in the background as well. It’s tied together, though you make a good point illustrating why this is such a complex issue. The overall effect is what’s important, because it directly affects our survivability as a species.
Regardless where the science takes us on this issue, on issues that determine whether or not we can continue to survive on our own planet, my reaction is to ramp up research, figure it out, and hedge my bets towards survival in the meantime. In this case, there is enough evidence to be concerned, and while the research and debate goes on, decreasing our CO2 emissions is a good hedge against that concern.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (2:59 pm)It’s impossible to discuss this video, which brings up many “reasons” to buy the car without discussing all the problems that this car, and all cars supposedly solve. That’s not trolling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet). If the video was about the car itself, then I would agree, but it’s not.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:00 pm)I’ll repeat again what I said in #113:
“If we’ve already burned half of the oil that is in the ground, and here we are the last couple years starting a cooling trend, then how much more harm can it do to burn the other half of the oil thats in the ground. The obvious answers is not enough to make any difference in the big picture”
I keep thinking this simple statement should be enough to make everyone realize that global warming from burning OIL in the big picture is not relevant. I wish people would stop talking about it, and maybe it will just go away.
The issues to discuss are the economic and geopolitical issues of our importing of oil and what we are going to do about it. We need to stop importing Oil as fast as we can.
If we do this as was pointed out by someone, we cannot be fooled as our enemies counter this by pumping oil as fast as they can to fool us into thinking we don’t need to act.
We need to act. We need to focus on this as a nation. We probably might even need to risk a recall or two on the VOLT, just get it out there.
We need to stop sending our money to buy our enegy but use it to invest and create jobs here.
We need to stop fighting wars to protect the importing of oil (by stopping the importing of oil).
There is a lot more that we need to do but a 5 year plan to stop supporting oil would be awfully nice.
And to the people who keep saying we shouldn’t even be driving cars I say fooey. Driving and going different places is a real joy of modern life, and I look forward to doing it guilt free one day.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:01 pm)Dang.
Trollsville today, sup wit dat?
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:03 pm)Tell you what : I have a Nissan Altima 2008. Recently, I received a letter from Nissan stating that a few ‘incidents’ happened to some owners related to the transmission, some of which causing a huge repair ($$) sometimes AFTER the warranty was over. These things happen, not only to GM. It’s hard to have a 0% defect rate on any part of a car. You can only wish for a low number. That’s why we have warranties.
+4
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:09 pm)I think this thread proves that introducing evolution, AGW, and green power into this topic is a really bad idea. Keep the message on track – energy independence, etc.
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:12 pm)In the real world I have 3 degrees and do energy balances as a senior level scientist every day. Real science. Not the kind of politically driven “already know the answer” science done by the small group of warmist who control the data sets, manipulate the data, loose the original data, and continually make over the top statements about a scientific consensus (all the while stifling oppsostion to their view in the real world of science). There are good people doing science out there and that is why we are now hearing more and more about problems with the official AGW theories touted by our Govts.
+9
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:13 pm)I noticed gas prices are hovering at just under $3.00/gal. Looks like the sh|t is going up.
I don’t care how anyone else looks at it. I want an EV simply because I am tired of spending my hard earned $$$ on OPEC juice. It’s not because I want to “save the planet” or don’t want to contribute funds to countries that I want us dead. I want to get of and stay off my dependency on OPEC juice for transportation. This is just me but it all start with one person. As long as I can get off of the Opec juice the rest will fall into place.
I just want to get off the gas price rollercoaster.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:13 pm)Repeating yourself doesn’t make it any more true. The fact that it’s a “simple statement” means you’re trying to sum up a very complex line of research into a single simplistic statement. Those statements are inherently false, since they fail to recognize the very real complex nature of the issue.
There are lots of reasons to buy a Volt outside of climate change. Air pollution is one. Geopolitical and economic are another. Sovereignty and energy independence is another. There are others. Stopping needless war, creating jobs at home. All are real, all are valid. So for some it’s a hedge against climate change. That’s good too. There is no need to put down one reason and proclaim that others are more important. Having a vehicle that effectively helps solve many of these concerns in one fell swoop is a monumental achievement. It should be seen as such.
No matter what your concern, the General has an elixir that will cure you! Only this time it’s real, and not just … well, let’s just say oil.
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:14 pm)I agree, but I think you have to allow some time for companies to perfect the components and manufacturing processes. Give them a few years.
But I certainly think it would be awesome to just say that a time line line
Calendar 2013 10% of new cars sold must be 12 miles AER
Calendar 2014 20% of new cars sold must be 12 miles AER
Calendar 2015 40% of new cars sold must be 12 miles AER
Calendar 2016 75% of new cars sold must be 12 miles AER
Calendar 2017 90% of new cars sold must be 12 miles AER
Now the above regulation allows consumers to choose the amount of AER they want, and if they want EREV/BEV etc.
Also need plan to convert some 18 wheelers to CNG and get homes converted from fuel oil.
It also will create enough innovation to make it all affordable. It will give car owners freedom from energy spikes and shortages.
And while a nice plan like that is laid out it gives utilities a timeline to plan long range for energy needs, and building of renewable and nuclear power capability.
And of course it will lead to lots of jobs, freedom from Oil and a Nobel Peace Prize for Dr. Dennis (if Al Gore gets one Lyle should get two).
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:14 pm)The Model S is expected to cost $57,500 compared to the Volt at $40,000. “Fill-ups” take a minimum of 45-minutes. 5-minute “battery swaps” involve investing in a second battery pack (the most expensive part of the vehicle) and having that battery pack at a pre-planned waypoint on your trip. Range is 300 miles. When you are out, you need a tow truck and a charge.
The most important feature of the Volt, the range extender, is the key to public acceptance. Without it, you will always have range anxiety- even with a 300 mile pack built into a $57,500 car.
45-minute charges and 5-minute battery swaps are band-aids for range anxiety. They don’t solve the problem. If you run out of battery power, where will you stop to get a charge? The infrastructure is not here. They tried that in the 90′s. It didn’t work out. Where is the infrastructure for 5-minute battery swaps? Who pays for this second battery pack? Again- a band-aid. And an impractical one at that.
The Volt solves the problem of range anxiety and vehicle cost by giving the car just enough battery capacity to get where most people need to go. And for those that drive over 40 miles or over 300 miles, the range extender is there for unlimited range (so long as there’s a 5-minute gas station fill up on your route). No worries, no anxiety, no inconvenience, no extra hidden costs, no additional infrastructure required.
Pure electrics had their chance. People rejected them. Now it’s time to see how people react to EREVs.
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:16 pm)Boo rang! Lyle make wideo only tell have truth! Truth is oil from mother country and friendly East is best way for to travel with. So what if man ride horse 5 sousand year?? Now we have nice black gold to give horse break! Please to peeples here… do not blieve this lie of electric car. It steal importants resource (likes lithiums) from mother earth.
And remembers this truth – globe will fire burn from to use mountain coal, not clean good oil! Mountain coal make hotter air and melting ice glaser cubes. Good you all to fight on global burning – (this our secret plan;) GM Volt bad car for many reason… make hair stand up from electric shock. Make no sound to run donw little animal! Need have plug in wall, so how far can drive? And not to believe capitalist GM toy company to Obama and friend! They not love Karl.
Please keep nice SUV. Nice pickup truck. Nice big Caddy (no EV.) So I don’t hav to as signment Siberia. Please.
Ние трябва да убие тъп американски лос и катеричка!
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:19 pm)Crooks? But what did they steal? Would someone please explain to me why the entire mainstream scientific community would want people to believe in climate change if it wasn’t a real concern? What do they have to gain from it? Their collective investment in energy savings lightbulbs will pay off?
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:19 pm)“Driving and going different places is a real joy of modern life, and I look forward to doing it guilt free one day. ”
I agree with the “going different places” part, but if you told the driving public that they had the option of having a driver at no additional cost, it would be interesting to see the percentage of takers. Only true driving enthusiasts actually enjoy driving every day to the exclusion of other more productive and enjoyable activities. The rest of the driving public drive because they have no other choice because of the built environment.
79% of the US population lives in urban areas. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census/cps2k.htm
If the built environment was not artificially constrained by outmoded zoning and finance laws, and the commoditization of real estate, you’d see a mass exodus of car ownership by choice. Wall Street does not generally understand mixed-use development. It’s not one of the 19 standard real estate commodities.
Right now, people don’t actually have a choice of what type of environment in which to live because walkable mass-transit supported urbanism is nonexistent in most areas.
Again, I’m not knocking the car itself, but beware of the environmentalist gorilla in the room. The environmentalist solution is not in the form of another car. The auto industry may have it’s environmental audience disappear because they made the next logical step.
That’s why I would promote the car as being high tech, fast and fuel efficient and lose the green bs.
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:22 pm)I disagree. I think it is inherently true. There are 2 claims that are constantly made and they contradict each other.
1) we’ve already burned half the oil in the ground
2) burning the other half is very very bad
If #1 is true, then #2 is not. Now if you argue that as Lyle had in the video there will soon be a billion cars, and the 2 billion cars and we’ll burn more and more Oil forever, then yes at some point something bad will result, at some POINT.
We don’t need Carbon Credits we just need common sense. It is quite obvious that renewables and Nuclear energy are far cheaper and problem free in the long run. The problem is the short sighted nature of people that prefer to burn a ‘cheap’ fuel instead of building something that requires no fuel. And then to get the ‘cheap’ fuels they’ll invade countries to get the fuel.
We need to work on renewables and new generations of cheap/safe nuclear power.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:25 pm)Millions.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7007891/The-curious-case-of-the-expanding-environmental-group-with-falling-income.html
Pachauri ‘was making public comments on a dispute involving factual claims by the IPCC at the same time that he was negotiating for funding to his home institution justified by those very same claims’
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:30 pm)Lyle, I’m highly impressed.
I guess you will read these posts for feedback, and if so I hope this little feedback will be helpful….
1) The “cubic pound” and “cubic ton” is wrong.
Weight is in pounds, tons, or metric tons, so please drop the “cubic”.
2) The burning earth makes a good point, but skeptics love to point at such things and call it fear mongering.
3) Maybe you can get some footage with/from GM of a Volt car accelerating into the distance. This could be used at the end. My ideal footage would be custom shot from the inside of the Volt in the desert looking out of the front window too see the same sort of picture as in the opening picture. Then cut to the view from the road watching the Volt disappear into the distance. I don’t see a problem it a little corporate help.
My comments shouldn’t detract from this being a fantastic job!
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:37 pm)All true. But wait… where can I buy an electric car that’s affordable (15-25K)? I see lot’s of advertising lately but none are actually for sale, again, at what I’d call a reasonable price. I’d love to buy one but can’t afford the >40K I’ve seen on some. Get them out there and people will buy them. Eventually prices will come down, but there has to be something available to get things started.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:39 pm)My friend’s Toyota Carolla is in the shop every time I turn around. It’s had to be towed twice in the past six months. I don’t remember what the specific problems were since it’s not my car. But these things happen with mass produced products.
+4
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:41 pm)The REAL reason for buying a VOLT is the hope that someday, Wolf Blitzer will be sent back to the middle east to do another of his (mind-numbing-from-total-boredom) reports on CNN showing a few Saudi Oil Princes “sobbing like little girls” over the lack of demand for their stinking oil.
-2
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:48 pm)The video doesn’t show much of the Evolt. Pitty. Other video’s show that GM didn’t get the ultimate point of making a good electrical car:
The key is simplicity:
- only 2 (or 4) electric motors in the wheels (no gearbox needed, no drive axels needed, minimal maintenance)
- simple modular (plug compatible for easy maintenance) generator:
. diesel motor: charges at optimum power [on or off], no complcated controls needed
. fuel cell
. extra charged battery pack
. (future) micro nuclear power cell
- small brakes, only for low speeds
+4
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:49 pm)OK. Maybe he had something to gain. And there are probably some other people who got rich off the process. (Although these are highly intelligent people who probably could have found other easier ways to make money. ) But there are too many activists involved to think they all got rich off of this.
And how did they get the entire mainstream scientific community on board? They couldn’t have bought off all of them. There just isn’t that enough money involved.
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:50 pm)On ABG right now…
$40,000. That’s the potential price we’ve heard for the first-gen Chevrolet Volt for ages, and it’s the number we get again, now that the recent “low 30s” price rumor has been put to rest. Again.
General Motors spokesman Dave Darovitz confirmed to Green Car Reports that GM CEO Ed Whitacre’s recent statement that the Volt would be priced “in the low 30s” and be profitable was misleading/inaccurate. The reality is that the car will cost around $40,000, and a possible $7,500 tax credit from the federal government would move the price into the low 30s. Specifically, Darovitz confirmed to GCR that, GM “has not officially announced final Volt pricing, a price in the low 30′s after a $7,500 tax credit is in the range of possibilities.” We knew that. Why would we think it was anything else?
—————————————————————————————————-
So I am going to beat my drum on this again. at $40,000.00 it is not for the mass general public Pat Q. Public. Not many now can afford to buy a $40,000.00 car. Yes it will be $40,000.00. For all intents and purposes, when you sign the purchase papers and drive off the lot, you will have paid FULL price for the car. If you are like the vast majority of Americans, you will finance the car. This means you will have financed that $7500 and that value is amortized in your loan. Sure you will get the $7500 back the next year but it is still being amortized in your loan.
You’re purchase price will NEVER be $40,000.00 – $7,500.00 = $32,500.00
The $32,500.00 is what GM claims as “low 30′s”.
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:55 pm)Yeah, but till it happens to you, it’s easy to say that. I got burned on my 2002 Ford POS Explorer. Many little probs till two tranny jobs just made the car unaffordable. Henceforth, I will not ever buy or look at a ford again.
+6
Jan 19th, 2010 (3:58 pm)If that is the case, then I want to reiterate that I meant no offence. I was surprised that your arguments had the sound of pop science, and was genuinely trying to be helpful, but such is the way with the internet. Sometimes what we mean to get across fails to come across how we wanted.
I would like to state for the record that I’m not a hard core “warmest” or AGW advocate by any stretch. I appreciate that there is debate and uncertainty. I appreciate that we don’t yet have all the answers, and that our models still make a lot of assumptions that are proving inaccurate. I also appreciate that there is bad science out there, much of which ends up in mainstream media, and all of which I do my best to avoid. I also appreciate that science is a wholly human endeavor, which is fallible. Nevertheless, I believe that the scientific method is the best tool we have, as a civilization, to observe and learn about the world around us. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Through science we can understand what, if anything, is actually going on, and the effects our technology is having on the only world we have to live on. That is the goal.
I see enough evidence, outside of the mainstream media, to support the idea that there is a reason to be concerned. Given the consequences if taht evidence is correct, I’ll hedge my bets with reducing our CO2 until the research and models are more conclusive.
+5
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:06 pm)Funny, my Dad’s Ford Bronco II was as solid and reliable as they come. My Uncle’s Taurus on the other hand… yeesh.
I’m with LauraM on this one. Some models are crap, some are great, even from the same manufcturer. Writing off an entire company based on an experience with one car from one model in that companies entire lineup is a bit extreme.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:08 pm)I doubt that’s going to happen. They already have enough accumulated wealth and investments for them to live very well for a very long time. Regardless of the price of oil. It will reduce the amount of money they can give to their extremists. They might have to cut down a bit on other luxuries. And, it will impact the quality of life of some of the less well connected. But the Saudi royal family won’t be starving anytime soon.
The cumulative transfer of wealth to the middle east has permanent consequences. The sooner we stop it, the better. But there’s nothing we can do about what we’ve already spent.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:12 pm)Shoot. I was leaning your way until you diminished your opinions with name-calling.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:12 pm)The quality of this video is horrible. It’s choppy as hell and the graphics are lame. The music stinks too. The message is good, but thats about it. There is no way this video is going viral. Better luck next time…
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:15 pm)There is no such things as “inherently true” in the real world. There is evidence. The evidence supports a very complex set of relationships.
Besides, your argument is flawed. If we’ve burned one half, and are still alive to tell about it, that certainly has no bearing on how we will fare after the second half is burned. You can be sitting in your garage idling your car, burn through half a tank and be fine, and be dead by the time the rest of the tank is burnt.
Our collective common sense is notoriously bad at dealing with complex issues, and flat out wrong in many cases.
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:16 pm)Some days are like that, I guess. Otherwise, some interesting discussion.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+5
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:18 pm)I agree.
It is so disheartening to see so many people lobbying against the scientific community. These people try very hard to stay neutral, if only the rest of us could come even CLOSE to their example. History is full of examples of quality scientific findings that are at odds with each other. This has ALWAYS been part of the process, isolating variables and impacts of processes not well understood. This is why the full body of work needs to be examined, rather than cherry-picking a few studies that you don’t agree with. I know many fantastic scientists, including a few nobel prize winners. 99.9% of these people only want the truth. They would do the work for free. How they will be viewed by history is far more important than money.
Science has uncertainty at its core. The question is: what does it cost to reduce the uncertainty, and what does it cost not to.
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:20 pm)We must be the family that get’s crap cars. My dad’s Mercury Lynx had the same probs. He was a faithfull For buyer so after it was paid off, he bought another one, Ford Escort. Same thing. Nuttin but probs, driver seat bolts kept coming loose, heat/ac controlls kept getting stuck and the sunroof kept leaking. Not to mention the carburators kept having issues. He always maintained it. Did the oils n filter and air filter changes regularly and had it serviced. I swore to myself I’d never buy a Ford, but I did. Turned out to be a crap 2002 Explorer.
Sorry ladies n Gents, personal statistics out weigh the rest. on this one.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:23 pm)Hi,
Energy independence is only one of the flavors of ice cream available here. Granted, it’s a very popular flavor.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:27 pm)#108 Don C.
So we agree.
Its best not to pick an issue on which there is substantial disagreement and try to use it as a reason to buy a Volt. Global warming has been highly politicized and there is considerable disagreement on the issue. It is therefore not the best ammunition to use in Volt marketing. Especially when there are so many other very compelling reasons on which everyone can readily agree.
GM should endeavor sell Voltec cars to every driver, regardless of policital leaning or their opinions regarding the climate.
Thats really all I was trying to say. And apparently rather poorly.
My appologies.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:31 pm)Well, see, now you’re building up a body of evidence. That’s a bit more reasonable than a single isolated incident (I said a bit). The fallacy that remains though, is the assumption that a product line can never improve.
I’m not advocating Ford, just saying that it’s more reasonable to take each model for what it is, and do your homework before buying (admitedly a much easier thing to do in the information age), which is applicable to many things in life. You could be missing out on a great car, or great something else.
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:34 pm)Video is OK
Starting it out with man came from apes will make a lot of Christians upset as they believe in creation.
Christians make up for a lot of the US who would get this car.
I would leave that out and it will not affect sales.
You don’t want to equate a car with Darwin and Christianity
Bill
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:40 pm)Oh no… we’ve just been through climate change, let’s not get on to evolution too. I’ll be here all night!
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:45 pm)I too am not a Ford fan because of a bad experience with a blown engine.
Once you get a lemon, that one time kills your confidence for a long time.
On the other hand, the Cougar was pretty nice. And the new Mercury/Lincoln stuff is looking mighty fine. Be interesting to see what Ford does in the electric arena.
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:48 pm)I didn’t know Lyle was such a flamer.
Most of the claims in the video are arguable, some are false.
There are lots of good reasons to buy a Volt, and for our country to pursue energy independence (incl utilitizing every source we can: nat gas, solar, wind, conv oil drilling, etc).
But this video doesn’t do a good job of outlining those reasons.
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:50 pm)Lots of horror stories from both Ford and GM.. strangely enough rarely from Toyota (and they fix it) and sometimes from Honda (their recent hybrid battery problems).
I think the only solution is to only buy cars that have been in production for 2-3 year, and do research. GM would do a lot to burnish its reputation by offering a 10 year/100k miles bumper to bumper warranty on ALL their cars. Ford does not have the money to do this.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:54 pm)Very well said, thank you for that. I have several close friends who are active recearchers, though no one with a Nobel Prize (yet). They are all good people, passionate and dedicated to thier work, just looking for the truth.
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:56 pm)LOL, I’d give a buck and a quarter to see that video! +1
Then again, maybe they’ll end up on the list of countries to whom we send aid…
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (4:56 pm)I wonder where they are on the Focus BEV. Leno has one of them. When are they coming out with one for Pat Q. Public?
Strangely, I think the “Focus” platform was from the Escort/Lynx. But I could be wrong.
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:01 pm)We won’t know for sure until this spring.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:07 pm)lol……yeah, that’s true.
But I think that’s “close enough for government work….”
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:17 pm)OUCH! (lol) too close to the truth!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:25 pm)They just want to have a job, and the easy to way to get is by being alarmists.. but perhaps some of them are true believers, also dont discount peer pressure.
It will be a horrible blow to science if we do go into another ice age soon.
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:30 pm)I’ve read maybe half of the comments, but have to jump in on Anthropogenic Global Warming:
The Volt doesn’t need a Climate Change argument in order to justify itself (as the rest of Lyle’s video abundantly demonstrates). Let’s just leave it alone. the AGW crowd already has their halo car: the Prius. If True Believers want to connect the dots for the Volt, let them; but let’s not push ourselves onboard the already-crowded bandwagon.
The idea some have put forward in this thread, that “the debate is over,” and that denial of AGW is “crappy” or morally repugnant, is the single greatest flaw in this belief system (for without denial or inquiry, we are at the level of a belief system, and not Science; which is at it’s core about asking questions and testing assertions).
The fact is, the climate of the Earth is always changing. It has changed throughout it’s history, and won’t stop now due to the efforts of Man. Let’s be very clear: the assertion that we can do anything to climate by controlling our emissions is actually an assertion that we can cause climate change; not that we have caused it. Our knowledge and abilities are not sufficient to cause, or likely discern any clear-cut relationships in a system that has so many variables.
It is possible that “Global Warming” will follow “Global Cooling” onto the heap if abandoned theories. Given the efforts to end debate on the issue prematurely, and to use it for political ends, there is likely to be a great public backlash should that happen. One of the greatests assets of the Volt is it’s ability to stand on it’s own outside the fray of Global Warming, and I strongly believe that we should only support it that way.
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:32 pm)#223
Yeah, I for example still believe that the earth is flat. I mean, it sure looks flat from where I’m standing. I don’t see any !@#$%^ curve. I’m totally sick of this hysteria from these “roundists”. That’s why I don’t travel much. I sure don’t want to fall off the edge.
-3
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:33 pm)Dear Lyle,
Thanks for the effort but I, as a Christian, can’t in good conscience send this video out to anyone. Call it a “pet peeve:” if you’d like (and then move on, I don’t care for yet another discussion about Darwinism now), but I am rather annoyed at the monkey-into-man thing in the beginning. You don’t have to agree with me but I just think there’s no point in alienating anybody on something like that with a video about the Volt.
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:33 pm)Whoa, there. There are lots of problems with Toyotas and Hondas as well.
These just get less press. Rusting, transmissions, etc. The biggest complaint I hear from import drivers are these $500 “routine maintenance” visits. That’s funny.
I guess it depends on what you define as a “repair” vs “maintenance”.
The point is, in 2010, EVERYONE makes very good vehicles. Period.
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:40 pm)Just a moment. Who is going to send us aid? Have any of you every checked out http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Up, up, and AWAY.
Hawk
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:44 pm)Herm,
Not to be picky, but you REALLY need to get an understanding of what science means to the people who choose that field. It is not at all about finding an easy way to have a job. That’s funny. And I’ve never met one scientist who is an alarmist. EVER. The uneducated and distracted media takes care of that. Real scientists are not “believers”. Nothing more to say about that one. And the peer pressure argument is also REALLY funny. Really.
And it will not be a horrible blow to “science” if we have another ice age. It will be catastrophic to humans, period. If that happens, the scientists will be dead, just like everyone else.
Science…. is not the enemy. Science does not have an agenda. Science is the search for truth. Whatever it may be.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:44 pm)… should have read:
“The fact is, the climate of the Earth is always changing. It has changed throughout it’s history, and won’t stop now due to the efforts of Man. Let’s be very clear: the assertion that we can do anything to climate by controlling our emissions is actually an assertion that we can cause climate change; not that we have caused it. Our knowledge and abilities are not sufficient to cause change (or likely discern any clear-cut relationships) in a system that has so many variables.”
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:51 pm)I have to get outta here today. This thread’s driving me nuts…….
-2
Jan 19th, 2010 (5:59 pm)Well said. Thank you
Hawk
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:00 pm)Lyle,
Just getting around to watching the video.
First let me say that I hope people don’t watch the video and then go to http://www.gm-volt.com today since there are many disagreements going on.
My 2 cents. The Video is a great idea. I think there is room for another type of video that would focus on the Chevy Volt and the things that have sold cars for years.
The car is quick off the line, quiet, nimble, and very efficient. The maintenance is low and it is a chick magnet (ok maybe not the chick magnet thing). Then a quick note about getting off foreign oil (a crying Sheik in the background) and helping the environment.
Maybe this is a challenge to other Volt addicts with a creative touch.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:04 pm)hi haley 242 …
Many people are spiritual while not necessarily being religious. I consider myself spiritual and I choose to love Christ as a personal friend. Throughout our lifetime society has placed layer after layer of “filters” in front of our eyes. This may have started very early in life when a parent said, “I don’t like someone because…”. Or when a club you found yourself involved in took an anti stance against another.
Standing beside our personal beliefs and ideas is the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
________________________
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
________________________
Free exercise of religion of choice, freedom of speech, freedom to assemble, and freedom of the press. This extends to courtroom issues. And the ability to voice an opinion for or against the nation going to war.
I don’t see Lyle’s post, as presented, being anything more than his right to say his piece. Do I agree with 100% of it. Maybe not. Will it effect my buying a Volt or not? No. Do I feel it’s good artistic work by an inspired individual? Yes, very good.
God bless America. Where a citizen can speak as they wish.
=D~
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:05 pm)That is true, new cars are very reliable.. still if you buy anything but a Hyundai or a Toyota I always recommend you get a good extended warranty.
I believe the VW diesels are the ones with “regular maintenance” bills of $500.. ouch!
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:09 pm)Sure its a chick magnet, they just dont shave their legs
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:12 pm)Great vieo ..but the spoiled idiots in US will always demand this/that range 5 big people in the car & all that ..It looks like other nations in Europe, China, Brazil & other countries will lead the EV revolution ..these are the same people who demand all this in a car dont have 2 nickels to rub with …Credit is tuff to get ..world will move to EV ..
Look at France Germany & other countries generate lot of power from nuclear but here the same ole crap ..but but the danger of radiation ..same with the EV adoption here in US but but but
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:16 pm)The vast majority of Christians believe in evolution. If God is eternal, then why not take 3 billion years to create people?
I think the main people challenging evolution are engineers that can’t believe God would create something using a very a different method than they would. Seems a little arrogant if you ask me…
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:20 pm)#213
Alas, you might as well talk to the wall for all of the good you are going to do trying to convince these guys. If I wanted to hear rants about global warming, evolution, and nuclear power, I’d be listening to talk radio instead of coming here.
Anyway, nice to see your name hear. Bloggers have been wondering where you were. +1
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:25 pm)#247
I agree. One of the more irritating that I can remember. +1
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:26 pm)In Europe, most people live in multi-family dwellings. Garages and driveways are much less common. So EV adoption in Europe will probably lag the U.S.
As for nuclear power, the U.S. lags behind other nations because we have coal. The U.S. has been called the Saudi Arabia of coal. Before climate change became a hot topic, there was little reason to make nuclear power a larger part of the mix.
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:29 pm)Yes, well said. +1
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:31 pm)Come on, get on board.
http://tobefree.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/climatology_dees.jpg
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:38 pm)As we see from the comments – the AGW issue is FAR TOO POLARIZING to be of use to Volt marketing. Considering the polls on climate (lowest concern) vs. important issues to consumers – AGW is a sure loser. What the video should do is drop the climate business and focus on energy independence, security, manufacturing jobs, clean air, and some mention of sustainability. That’s enough politics.
People are concerned about jobs, and economy. I strongly suggest a re-edit to focus on how new GM plants in Michigan create jobs, and how owning a vehicle that NEVER has to use gasoline will save money. The only scare should be the price of oil going up. Otherwise its great to see promotion for Volt – a socially responsible, groundbreaking vehicle!
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:39 pm)Late to the party. Excellent video Lyle.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:44 pm)I’m a huge backer of the Volt and hope to own one in the not too distant future. I’m a backer of the electrification of the auto. But this BS about anthropogenic global warming has got to stop. It’s a total fraud set up by a bunch you stand to make a killing off of the carbon offset trading. We should pursue energy independance for security and standard of living reasons. We should pursue Nuclear Power in a large way so we can meet our demands for electrical energy without bankrupting the country. Solar and Wind are mickey mouse technology. As I speak California is getting pounded by furious storms. Where’s all the energy from the solar power going to come from. The sun hasn’t been out in my area for at least 5 days.
Go Volt!
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:51 pm)A little more constructive critic….
It is preaching to the choir, how about a bunch of shots of cool electric cars. I know that either means lifting footage or a lot of time and effort to shoot new footage, when I saw the picture in the desert I was hoping for moving pictures of the Volt, now that would get views.
Jan 19th, 2010 (6:55 pm)Personally, I would be bothered a lot more by a lot of little things going wrong with the car than than one big one. One big problem can happen to anyone. The guy on the factory line wasn’t feeling well. There was a problem en route. A mechanic made a mistake while doing a tune-up or an oil change. Some prankster thought it would be funny if they damaged my car. A lot of little problems says there was something wrong with the factory.
That said, I think that Ford has made huge strides in quality in the past few years. But I completely understand why you don’t want to give them another chance. That’s why the misteps of the 70s have had such lasting consequences. And Toyota’s recent quality issues may hurt them for years to come. Even if they fix all the issues right away for all future vehicles.
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:01 pm)Evolution RULES!
Deal with it.
If an asteroid is headed for Earth as a global killer and we have the means to divert it, should we NOT because it is God’s will to send it to us?
-1
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:06 pm)I don’t know if global warming is real or not because I’m not a climatologist, I have my suspicions but don’t have adequate and reliable information for a frame of reference.
What are your credentials?
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:13 pm)hi truthguy 262 …
You make a good point. What if the 100v outlet is out of service for a few days?
As the electrification of travel grows and expands. People will adjust to a new way of thinking. And do things in a new way. Once corporate America owns the Fiskers and Converj of the world. These will be the new Generals in the movement to facilitate free workplace charging. Once more workplace charging comes into being. The average “Joe Volt” will have at least two opportunities to charge his vehicle each day. At the start of his day Joe may have some charge remaining from yesterdays free workplace charge. Joe then charges for a few hours (30 cents or so) before driving to work. Where he again tops off his charge for free.
Who wins in this system?
A better question: Does anyone loose in this system?
Joe Volt drives a car which provides the newest electronic entertainment and NAV features. Four leather seats. Very acceptable 273 lb-ft of torque. A top speed of just over 100 mph. The ability to drive (even when 110v home power goes out) using E85 fuel or common gasoline. His car is smooth and quiet. His garage is not filled with exhaust smoke. Engine service cost is placed on the back burner because the engine is rarely used. He gets a tax credit from his state of residence and from the federal government in DC. He won’t be racing to get in front of you at the Mobile station pump. He buys little or no gasoline so your Yukon may be fueled at a lower price. Joe daily drives his electric car and provides real consumer feedback to make the next Volt (possibly your next car) even better.
More people then choose to own electric drive vehicles. Business, theaters, and supermarkets provide free recharge parking. People shop longer as their vehicle juices up. Businesses make more profit and contribute to cleaner air and reduced ambient city noise.
The reason the above statement refers to “vehicles” rather than to “cars”. Is that a large percent of people who frequent gm volt dot com have expressed interest in an electric drive truck line.
=D~
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:15 pm)I think this is a good point. Many of us environmentalists are failing to focus on the common ground. While the video does mention foreign oil, many conservatives ignore anything mentioning Global Warming.
I believe this entire country needs to rally around the reduction of Oil imports. Even the “Drill, Drill, Drill” mantra will only delay the inevitable. No more oil.
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:16 pm)I could go into wikipedia and edit that out and substitue my own reality.
I really wish people would not cite wikipedia
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:17 pm)I’m a big believer in the scientific method myself. I think scientists should be like good detectives. They just follow the EVIDENCE wherever it might lead … whether you LIKE where it leads or not. Then, once the original scientist publishes his findings, several other REPUTABLE scientists repeat the same things the original scientist did.
When a large number of scientists repeat the same procedures and get the same results, that is as close to “truth” as you can get. Peer reviewed double blind scientific tests and “meta analyis”, etc. Science is always evolving though. Some areas of science is more “settled” than others. That’s why scientists have jobs. So they can discover new things in those “unsettled” areas and get a solid understanding of it. Make the “unsettled science” more settled.
One area I hope the scientists work HARD on in the next 10-20 years is ENERGY STORAGE. I want them to bring to the automotive industry the best energy storage solutions possible. Whether that’s “lithium air” batteries or hydrogen fuel cells or whatever. It’s something that is BADLY needed. I’d rather see the scientists find a replacement for the internal combustion engine in today’s cars than go to the moon again or to Mars. We have stuff we need to take care of here on planet Earth first. The extraterrestrials will be impressed with us humans once we make the switch to electrified transportation and more “clean energy”.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:21 pm)Do you know what it costs to build good mass transit? Denver’s trying to build a light rail system that won’t come close to being a real substitute for a car. And the estimated price tag is 7.5 billion. And it keeps on going up. Meanwhile, a guy I talked to from Denver told me that, since it doesn’t have an express track, it doubled his transit time from the bus he’d previously used. (They canceled it after they got the light rail on line.) So he’s started driving to work.
.
In New York, we’re currently building the second avenue subway. It’s one extra line attached to an already functional subway system, which we desperately need. Estimated price tag? 16 billion. And then you have to pay for the upkeep, and to actually run the subway. Which isn’t cheap.
I’m all in favor building more mass transit. As a method of transportation, I prefer it to driving. But, with the way this country is set up, we need the electric car. ASAP. It has to be part of the solution.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:30 pm)… what if there were Helium 3 on the Moon, which would make fusion energy much easier to produce? No, you wouldn’t have a fusion powered car, but you’d have more electricity to charge it with. It can be dangerous to exclude one branch of inquiry or make one research effort stand in some kind of queue based on results. You never know where the next vital “aha” will come from. And yes, that includes Climate research.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:40 pm)They put up light rail here. Now all the low life muthaf#$%^& can move around. Don’t get me wrong, there’s plenty riders who are great people. It’s the scumbags that ruin it for everyone. The ones who smoke pot in there and curse every other word in their limited vocabulary and use words that only THEY can say but we can’t. Not a method to transport your kids that’s for sure. I’ve taken it a few times and every time there’s one or a few of those muthaf%#%%^& in there and someone pan handling.
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:42 pm)Hawk,
A) It was a joke
B) I go to that site every now and again, but it always gives me a headache.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:43 pm)Even if there is Helium 3 on the moon for fusion power, we would need a super cheap way to mine it and get it back to Earth. Every ounce of weight on a rocket or the shuttle is expensive. Maybe if they can hurry up and invent that “space elevator” out of the carbon nanotubes we get into space cheaper.
I’m hoping that this laser beam kind of fusion energy works that the national labs are working on. It’s still a long ways off in the future though … as usual. Our grandkids might have fusion power plants someday maybe. Who knows?
http://www.newsweek.com/id/222792
https://lasers.llnl.gov/
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:47 pm)It’s probably useless to get drawn into a discussion of global warming. At least in terms of actually convincing anyone. But I wanted to hear (well, actually, read) the response. I find the discussion here more civil, respectful, and informative than anywhere else. Regardless of the topic.
However, I’ve never listened to talk radio….
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:48 pm)Now—–if GM can only make it affordable. We can all juump on the band wagon
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:55 pm)Jackson at 240.
I see denial as a far different thing than inquiry.
Inquiry is honest, welcome, inspired very often, and enlightening, even though often opposed to any line of thought.
If inquiry is what you mean, then I agree with much of what you say.
But, Jackson,
Let me explain what I experience daily regarding denial.
In my business, denial is too often dishonest, intellectually lazy, often accompanied by deep dysfunctionalism, and causes the poor vehicle owner to really get the screw with “historical”-only referencing.
We have to remain up to date with these latest change findings (*whatever* those findings are) from *decent sources* who provide the accurate descriptive **weight** to what they are representing.
I am not saying at all that AGW debate is closed at all, I just want people to be as *updated as possible* (in recommending Science Daily).
Newer and newer, and clearer and clearer revelations of each mechanism of change can either reinforce or diminish the various covariables for the more truer pictures of each covariable. Currency of research is that which causes actions and public policy to be more likely properly directed, and more efficiently directed.
(Not just a refusal to direct anything at all, even at a no costing solution, with just simple public awareness sometimes). (Just knowing what is likely coming is a right of the public to know and at least get some scientific basis for in thier planning of their lives).
The thread today was really interesting. Lots of thought and sincere opinion was placed today. I liked reading it a lot.
I don’t see any sincere thoughtfulness, pro or con, as adverse at all.
(Just that if sometimes, if the source of a post (not yours) happens to be something “talk radio”-based instead of something concretely informed over a long time, like from Science Daily, well, I think the video above did a very good thing to have set the stage for open discussion today.
Thank you for your post.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:55 pm)I think the fact that my refrigerator works, is proof enough that science has some validity.
You have a point about peer pressure. But for it to get to that point, there had to be some evidence in the first place. Like others have said, there is always a margin for error. But I’d rather hedge my bets by reducing carbon output. Even a 30% chance of the destruction of life as we know it on earth is reason enough to invest trillions. At least, IMHO.
Jan 19th, 2010 (7:56 pm)Rx: Take two aspirins and a friend to bed. (g).
At least it’s very clear that people find this site a comfortable place in which to express their views!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+2
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:04 pm)There are a number of reasons. Mainly, if the icebergs melt, the sea level rises, we’ll lose land mass. Also, warmer temperatures favor mosquitoes, which carry diseases. And other pests, which could eat crops. And it probably increases the likelihood of more hurricanes, tsunamis, etc.
Basically, we’ve adapted our civilization to the way the earth is right now. Changing it to adapt to a new steady state will cost trillions. Which many poorer nations flat out don’t have. And that new steady state won’t be as favorable to us humans. For many reasons.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:13 pm)That’s *always* my first thought when I see a wiki reference.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:16 pm)I agree.
About 1/3 of the population thinks climate change is a hoax.
Another 1/3 think it’s real, but won’t affect people that much.
And 1/3 think climate change will seriously affect the planet, and should be dealt with immediately.
So roughly 2/3 of the population doesn’t care about climate change. With those demographics, you’ll never get anything done. All you’ll get is lip service.
By contrast, Energy Independence is an umbrella that encompasses concerns about:
• funding terrorists though oil money
• military casualties associated with oil
• America’s influence in the world
• foreign oil’s affect on our economy
• peak oil
• climate change
• and people who just hate big oil
Add that up and you have a significant majority. Things will get done.
So Energy Independence should be the goal. We should all unite behind that.
-5
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:19 pm)Not true, GM (Obama Motors) will soon manufacture them in mehico or canadia like they do most of their vehicles now.
I hope its more reliable than GMs cars have been in the past.
If so, in 15 years I may have one, but we have never and will never buy a new car. Entirely too much depreciation.
But we cant afford $40K for a car anyway, especially one that will only go 40 miles on a charge.
We currently own a Toyota with 275K on it, and 3 Volkswagen turbodiesels that get 42-49 mpg every tank. Plus they will do 80 mph for 13 hours on 15 gallons of diesel.
Ain’t no ‘lectric car ever gonna do that.
+3
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:23 pm)Well-said. I think people discount the benefits we’ve enjoyed that can be attributed to the space program. A pet peeve is the phrase “spending our money in space when we need to spend it HERE”. I don’t think that astronauts even take a wallet or purse along in space – all the money is spent here.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:24 pm)#276
Well it’s actually good, maybe even necessary to state the truth, unpopular as it might be. It’s just that it’s so exhausting seeing all this stuff. All credit to you for intestinal fortitude. +1
-8
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:28 pm)Lets see, i can spend $40K on an electric car that will need $6k worth of replacement batteries every few years, or I can spend $4K on a nice used Honda,Toyota,Volkswagen etc that will get 35-45 mpg.
Which do you think normal people will do?
Oh and the global warming thing….
Its been going on for millions of years, it was called the Ice Age, remember????
You think Americans are polluting the earth?
Travel to China or mehico city.
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:30 pm)#278
Same response to you as to LauraM at #286. You’re a better man than I am, LOL. +1
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:41 pm)Hi Dan,
You have an incredibly high tolerance for chaos. Do you have 16 kids? That would explain it (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:48 pm)It was snowing here in the California high desert for short while.
Regarding Mickey Mouse, when Robert Iger and company over in Burbank (Disney) filled out his taxes, it showed in the multiples of billions earned ( http://corporate.disney.go.com/media/investors/form_10k_fy2008.pdf ).
And regarding wind, more was likely newly installed during the year than any other form electricity generation, up from 42% of all newly installed capacity in 2008.
“The growth in 2008 channeled an investment of some $17 billion into the economy, positioning wind power as one of the leading sources of new power generation in the country along with natural gas. The new wind projects completed in 2008 account for about 42% of the entire new power-producing capacity added nationally during the year, according to initial estimates…AWEA expects over 5,000 MW of new capacity to be commissioned in 2009.” ( http://www.awea.org/publications/reports/AWEA-Annual-Wind-Report-2009.pdf )
Update 10/2009 – in 2009 to over 5,800 MW and the total installed
capacity in the U.S. to over 31,100 MW overall.
Over 5,000 MW more are under construction for
completion this year or next year.
Bottom line – It’s good to be Mickey Mouse!
-7
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:52 pm)Sorry but the BYD E5 is a superior electric car in every way possible, superior warranty, superior batter (range around 200 miles vs. Volt’s 40 miles), larger car space, and it’s already in production and being sold, will come to the US soon and for $10,000 less than this Gov’t Motor crap.
Oh you also ignored the fact that in the early electric cars were invented before gasoline cars.
“Between 1832 and 1839 (the exact year is uncertain), Robert Anderson of Scotland invented the first crude electric carriage. A small-scale electric car was designed by Professor Stratingh of Groningen, Holland, and built by his assistant Christopher Becker in 1835. Practical and more successful electric road vehicles were invented by both American Thomas Davenport and Scotsmen Robert Davidson around 1842. Both inventors were the first to use non-rechargeable electric cells. Frenchmen Gaston Plante invented a better storage battery in 1865 and his fellow countrymen Camille Faure improved the storage battery in 1881. This improved-capacity storage battery paved the way for electric vehicles to flourish.”
Jan 19th, 2010 (8:52 pm)Lyle- We need to convert the U.S. Electric power plants to clean burning Natural Gas. This will allow us to make this change from oil even more effective.
Joe
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:00 pm)To Tagament
Thanks for the reply. I fully understood your joke, but I don’t think you understood mine. We send money to countries all the time, but we are constantly spending far more money than we take in from tax revenue, so we borrow from other countries, China mostly, to make up the difference in our deficit, adding to our massive debt, and incredible interest payments. But when politicians speak they refer to the U.S. as a very rich country even though we are swimming in debt levels not seen since WWII as a percentage of GDP. Very scary at many different levels. If we don’t turn things around quickly, we may very well lose our “mighty dollar” reserve status within the next 10-15 years. Holy Moly. As if this thread wasn’t already complicated enough
Hawk
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:03 pm)+4
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:18 pm)While that debt clock website also makes my head hurt, any spending on research and development is good IMHO. NASA. DOE. NIST. Etc. These are investments in America’s future, IMHO. And we need to do more of that.
I just wish we did more to ensure that at least some of the benefits of that R&D went to the United States. Unlike, say optoelectronics. The DOD spent millions on the basic research. But the manufacturing base, and most of the commercial R&D is being set up in Asia.
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:21 pm)NOPE! I fully understood your point the first time – and I share your concerns.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:24 pm)Is that a great looking, er, ….car, or what!?!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-3
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:27 pm)Serious Carmakers create good reputation, and have not interest to change the name of their cars.
Nissan Quest since 1993
Honda Odyssey since 1994
Toyota Sienna since 1998
Unreliable Carmakers like GM, create bad reputation, and change frequently the name of their models, to deceive buyers.
Pontiac Transport
Oldsmobile Silhouette
Chevrolet Lumina Minivan
Pontiac Montana Minivan
Chevrolet Venture
Chevrolet Uplander
I had a Pontiac transport and got reed of it, now I’m struggling with a Chevy Venture, with problems after problems, break lines corroded, cylinder head gasket replaced, not able to replace the spark plugs, hard to replace the air filter, I bought it cheap but is costing me a fortune in repair and service fees.
They would sell some GM-Volts, if they will change the name of this car every 2 years.
GM = Deception = Bad Reputation.
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:29 pm)Less than 50% of US electricity comes from coal, and that percentage is dropping. In California, 40% of electricity comes from renewable sources (wind, solar, geothermal, hydro) with that percentage steadily rising as more renewables come online, and only 20% from coal, with that percentage steadily dropping.
Also, coal fired power plants use efficiency boosting devices too big for mobile use, the efficiency is much higher than internal combustion engines. Combined with the very high efficiency of the power grid and EVs, and the CO2 emissions caused by EVs running on coal are actually less than the CO2 emissions from gassers.
So, is it better to have a transportation system 100% reliant on oil, or one that is less than 50% (and dropping!) reliant on coal?
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:32 pm)Man Lyle…
Well done, I like the vid, I am on the fence about GW though, but best of all, look all the troll addresses that you can block from this.
Sheer genius!
on a different front, seems like Toyota’s sudden acceleration problem may not be floor mat related.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-avalon-displays-unintended-acceleration-without-floor-mat.html
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:48 pm)It was a good video until the global warming BS.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:51 pm)Well, actually our interest costs went down this past year even though we issued a record amount of debt. Flight to safety has its advantages. At least for the federal government.
Of course, that’s a temporary situation, and when it ends…Unfortunately, we still aren’t taking our debt seriously. Public or private. The recent credit crisis wasn’t enough of a reality check apparently. The US savings rate is now a gargantuan 5%.
Worse, our manufacturing base is practically history. We still don’t have a viable substitute for oil, and the price is going back up. Al Queda’s still there. And still trying to kill us. And China’s using our money to outspend us on R&D. Our companies are handing them our taxpayer funded R&D with on a silver platter because they think they stand a chance in the Chinese market. Or at least investors do, and that helps their stock price. And we still don’t have the political will to actually tackle any of our real problems.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:54 pm)I was going to read all of the posts before issuing my own but yours hits the spot. Spot on! +1. I couldn’t have refuted mikeinatl’s post better!
It’s amazing how Lyle’s simple but effective video solicited so much emotion. Its shows the wide disparity in commentators views. Some are so vehemently against what the overwhelming number of scientists document what’s happening to our atmosphere, and others feel that it would cause so many to ignore the video, and ignor everything else as you point out. So many point a negative eye towards scientists and politicians, the very ones who are attempting to solve the meriad of problems facing the world. There is such a disparity between the rich and poor, and the have and have-nots of the world that I often wonder if mankind will exist in a century from now. Hopefully, the future will be changed by what we do today; each and every one of us; if we can keep a rational mind, each one of us can make a difference. As Lyle suggests in this video, one way would be a drive on electric car! Perhaps if we can stop bickering among ourselves, we can make our planet a better place to live on and begin to expand out into outerspace to find new places to live. (I would guess many will think I’m a little extreme on this point.
)
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
P.S. Lyle, IMHO, don’t change one thing in the video. It is just fine as is! You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time. But not all of the people all of the time! You have done well, to preface it with the conditional statement – “You may not agree with everything in the video” – and use of conditional words in the video. At any rate, you garnered plenty of criticism both positive and negative to make what changes you feel need to be made.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jan 19th, 2010 (9:55 pm)Wow, it could get really, really quiet here(g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:13 pm)Wow…Wow…Wow..I even started dance with the music…Wow..it is great.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:37 pm)… there’s 90% of our problem, right there.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:39 pm)If your business is hauling around that many people for 80K miles per year, you should seriously consider getting a hybrid bus. The fuel savings would be substantial, it would pay for itself in a short time then you’d be saving big bucks. Maintenance costs tend to be lower on hybrids, too. As to “not paying $30K for a hybrid”, well, I only paid $22K for a new one, and a new Suburban costs well above $30K….
If you really need those Suburbans for your business and charitable work. that’s fine, no need to apologize, but please understand that a majority of big gas guzzling SUV drivers don’t really need that size, they are just showing off their wealth, trying to intimidate other drivers, and falling for the false notion that “Big and Heavy” always mean “safer”. (heavy vehicles can be hard to control thus accident prone, SUVs are rollover prone and rollover accidents have the highest incidence of fatalities).
Obama didn’t choose the Presidential vehicles, the Secret Service did, and their priority is protecting the President from racist loons and delusional ranters and jihadist crazies out to bring down our government. Not surprising they chose cars they could armor-plate.
As for “no computerized stuff” I can’t help but notice that this appears on the Internet, the very epitome of high tech and computerization.
+6
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:56 pm)You do not have to believe in global warming to realize oil is going to run out, or the oceans are acidifying from sequestering billions of tons of carbon released through increases in C02. We can kill the oceans that produce 70% of the oxygen we breath with all our carbon releases. But Noooo we do not effect the weather or climate.
We have burned up the stored carbon of earth that took 300 million years to bury in one hundred year span . But no way that will effect any of the planetary feedback loops. You got to be a total brain dead moron to think we are not fouling our own nest. The electric car is a major positive for an egocentric hubris filled population of Television motivated sports fans. And I include myself along with the rest of you.
+4
Jan 19th, 2010 (10:57 pm)I found it refreshing to find a site where greenies and tecchies, conservatives and liberals, Americans and non-Americans could all agree on one real, technological project … the Volt.
There are so many other venues for Global Warming to be expounded in exclusion of any other point of view. Let’s not add another. Anthropogenic Global Warming is one of the few subjects which has the power to divide us (if only temporarily).
Let’s especially not make the Volt itself into yet another rallying point for the populist “save the planet” religion. Yes, I hear those of you who are dismissing criticism of Global Warming as an attack on Science. The problem is less one of the Science, but more how it is being used: as a social crowbar to force limited economies, to deny the fruits of a technological society to a greater extent, to stifle individual freedom and diminish quality of life. No one is calling Al Gore or Michael Moore scientists. The true scientists seem to fall into two camps: “We need more research,” vs “It’s already too late.” Not much left over for the social engineers to use; so they’ve basically made up their own ideology (and shouted down all opponents).
Let the Prius continue to be the car for people who like to watch commercials which feature a whole world made out of happy babies in plant suits, and let the Volt remain the rallying point for our consensus: “We need to electrify the car for our own security, and because it produces the greatest benefit for the greatest number of people.”
-2
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:01 pm)Not bad but a little too much misinformation. I’m all for the Volt but we don’t need this kind of misinformation to sell a good product. This type of “tree hugger” propaganda will only serve to drive away those it is trying to attract.
But then again I’m a mechanical engineer so I guess most people who don’t understand the science behind the vague numbers and such will be all “ooh and ahh.”
But seriously the people this is aimed at are already sold. All this will do is drive away the doubters. Please don’t kill the Volt before it hits the ground with this type of misinformation.
Electrical to mechanical energy conversion is very efficient. Electrical energy can be more efficiently generated from the “grid.” Those are the facts so stick to them. The rest is just liberal propaganda that will work against electric vehicles penetrating the mainstream.
+1
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:09 pm)Well, the Volt doesn’t have a transmission to leak, just a powerful electric motor with an extraordinarily wide power band that never needs shifting. That applies to other electric vehicles, too.
But it might not be fair to judge Chevy on just one incident, as all manufacturers have an occasional lemon slip through quality control. It’s only a concern if it becomes a common problem, or if far too many defects slip past the QC inspectors.
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:09 pm)I’m sure you meant “you have to be a total brain dead moron to think we are not fouling our own nest.”… (g)
Be well,
Tagamet
/night all
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:11 pm)Very important message that is effectively communicated.
ICE’s causing hearing loss, asthma, and cancer are important factors not to overlook in the argument for electric cars. Many average consumers might not accept climate change after the email scandal.
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:13 pm)At least we have something to turn around. In Q-4 of ’08 when President Bush started the recovery process/TARP/bailouts and more that everyone seems to choose to berate as the worst decisions ever, it wasn’t clear that there would be any assets, valuations or economic activities remaining to begin a turn around with.
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:15 pm)Wow, that would make a great commercial! Not.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The ***VOLTS’*** Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:35 pm)Not really relevant to the Volt, as it uses an AC induction motor that doesn’t use rare earth magnets. But to answer your question, “rare earth” elements aren’t quite as rare as the name suggests, and yes, the magnets that use them are re-usable and technically recyclable.
Jan 19th, 2010 (11:57 pm)I drive a 1998 Chevy S-10 Electric. One that escaped the great electric car crushing by GM. Its a great vehicle, but GM won’t let me buy new batteries for it. Not til Bob Lutz is fired and GM shows they will back up their products will I buy another GM product. I will wait til
Ford comes out with there electric vehicles. I would prefer an electric full size van anyway.
Pat
+3
Jan 20th, 2010 (12:11 am)ABSO-FREEKIN-LUTELY!!!!!!!!!
That is my first ever all caps typing in my life. Before you discount what I just said here is my brief video/online history:
1981 is when I first played a video game, “Pong” was in a video table at an Italian restaurant in Norwalk CT on the Post Rd(I’ve since forgotten the name but the spumoni was excellent on my 11 year old toungue). In 1992 I used a hollowed out Pac Man video table at a local cafe to dial into “SF NET” while living in the Upper Haight of San Francisco CA. Oddly enough they both cost 25 cents per session; although the Pong was more fun. I have been around a long time(internet wise) my friends(as in when AFK meant Away From Keyboard long) and the GM-VOLT ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This video should be the flippin’ commercial.
Think of it… If the car has a battery who cares where the energy comes from??!!! The ICE is just a range extender, the energy stored in your battery can come from whatever the local resident chooses. Nukes? Go get some. Wind? Do it. Ocean swell? Good on ya. Solar? Fer cryin’ out loud put it on your roof!!
How many ways can you spell freedom?
I repeat my earlier transgression, it used to be frowned upon to go all caps(AKA screaming in the olden times of 1992).
GM-VOLT ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 20th, 2010 (12:20 am)All right. I tried not to respond to this comment. But it’s late enough in the thread that I doubt anyone will notice.
So…FYI…those “socialist countries” with “socialized medicine” innovate a great deal. It’s just that the US consumer picks up most of the price tag for that innovation. Look up Roche, Sanofi Aventis, Novartis, and AstraZeneca.
They do locate some of their R&D here. But that’s so that they can benefit from the NIH. On the other hand, they do their manufacturing in Europe. (As do “our” companies.) As a result, we have a $10 billion dollar net trade deficit in pharmaceuticals even though the vast majority of their profits come from the US consumer, and most of the basic research is funded by the US taxpayer through the NIH.
Jan 20th, 2010 (12:30 am)Cubic pounds and cubic tons are not units of measure. You mean pounds and tons. Some experts may believe that atmospheric carbon dioxide is contributing to higher global average temperatures, but at least 90% of temperature fluctuation is due to external factors.
Electric cars are very cool technology, but they are not economically viable yet, and they definitely will not have a significant influence on global average temperatures. They could improve air quality in cities.
If you think the cool technology is worth the extra bucks then buy one.
Jan 20th, 2010 (12:35 am)Awww, c’mon, just let the man have his dream.
Besides, they’re real good at spending that money, too. And frivolously. And how!
Jan 20th, 2010 (12:41 am)Does anyone remember pogue or fisher? I have read from people disclaiming their systems and sighting theoretical laws of thermal dynamics. We also believed that engines needed to run at 14.7 or richer mixtures, which Chrysler blew out of the water in the seventies with lean burn. Also, as we have now seen, vehicles with wide band air fuel ratio sensors are running upwards of 26 to one. The whole idea of fuel ecomony is a myth and people are sheep. Henry ford said that his cars would do better than 50 mpg by the end of the forties. What about the suzuki that gets 53 or the Chevy montana that gets close to the same but won’t be sold here because of epa bs. More research needs to expose the truth…that Petrolium is naturally occurring and necessary to lubricate tectonic plate movement as well as insulate the core (in as well as outflow of heat). As a car guy, just think of what oil does in an engine. It lubricates and insulates. By the way, how naive do they think we are? There were no dinosaurs in the ocean and the bodies of fish do not seep into the core of the earth to become raw fossil fuel. Wake up, do the research on your own, and change what you do and support.
Jan 20th, 2010 (1:23 am)Nice clip Lyle if there is a similar way to advertise the Volt like that media clip maybe more people would get it though you would have to put it in an easy to understandable details so it’s not so complex for the average person to understand it so they know and can find out why it’s so important to drive an electric vehicle and get away from fossil fuels way to go Lyle your the man!
Jan 20th, 2010 (2:03 am)A lot of excellent points, but the dots are not connected on how they relate to the issues at hand.
Actually I think the result is as much and likely more FMVSS than EPA. Along with what are considered a minimal level of amenities by US consumers that make vehicles heavier and power hungry.
Jan 20th, 2010 (2:42 am)Something similar happened in San Jose California when they installed light rail. Ridership was well below what they planned, and most riders had simply switched from busses, so revenue shortages and increased maintenance costs forced reduction in bus services for that transit district. It didn’t get people out of their cars, even though part of the light rail line went down the middle of a freeway in plain sight of drivers stuck in the worst daily traffic jam in the whole valley. Worse, portions of the light rail are on city streets where it interferes with traffic and causes frequent accidents.
A better public transit solution is one that doesn’t force riders to wait, it waits for them, and takes them quickly to their destination without unnecessary stops or transfers, runs 24/7, is cheaper to install and a lot less expensive to operate. It is called “Personal Rapid Transit” or PRT. See:
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/prtquick.htm
Jan 20th, 2010 (3:20 am)Of course not, an electric car doesn’t burn diesel. But then again, your VW Turbodiesels won’t either! You see, 80 mph for 13 hours would be 1,040 miles, but 15 gallons at 49 mpg is only 735 miles. Methinks you miscalculated.
Just wait. Improved batteries are now under development that could increase battery capacity 5x to 20x, resulting in “thousand mile per charge” EVs.
Jan 20th, 2010 (3:44 am)I hope GM bring some quality into Volt …in the past it has been a problem ..from all big three …Quality from Honda, Toyota etc is much better ..I own now 2 civics ..with very little maintenance ..Had a pontiac what a piece of crap ..The big 3 have to compete on quality quality cars ..not on how good the ads are ..Ever see ads from Honda – very rarely? but people still buy their cars primarily cuz of their quality product ..Koreans are catching up now ..
-4
Jan 20th, 2010 (3:52 am)Nice.. first GM buys up streetcars in LA and stops them so people would have to ride cars and buses. Next GM bribes Congress to spend vast sums on the Interstate system rather than on railroads. Then GM KILLS the electric car by refusing to do anything with it. Only when President Obama FIRED the CEO did GM change its tune.. and now it pretends that it INVENTED the electric car, and did so out of PATRIOTIC reasons… when the fact is that GM was dragged into doing this kicking and screaming.
Secondly, it’s well known that GM build crappy cars that break down several times in the first six months of ownership. Saturn, their classy division, was kept as far away from the Volt as possible. And the batteries they selected are obsolete and bulky. So my advice is, wait till Toyota comes out with an electric car. If you’re really in a hurry, buy the Smart car or get a used Prius converted. I wouldn’t waste my money on an ethically challenged American corporation.
Jan 20th, 2010 (5:01 am)This music… is unmistakably TIESTO…
Original music title “”"Delerium – Innocente”"” – (Tiesto mix)
As for the video… not bad… and as for the Chevy Volt…
I think it’s a step in a good and eventually viable direction… because the massive direction that we are currently going in with fossil fuels (with hardly any deviation) is environmentally devastating. Those who vehemently argue different have some sort of profit margin or (personal interest) at stake — It is very sad that we have so many self-serving individuals,,, ones who would sell or step on their brother or sister for a few pieces of copper (money) or a little personal recognition.
What is completely amazing is that we’ve only run on this stuff (petroleum based fuels) for a little over a hundred years and look how much of a hold the universal industry has… you have to figure that many who depend on the economy revolving around gasoline cars are beginning to worry… which I believe is why we have so much backlash against anything that takes away from someones wallet… It’s a very very sad shame actually. Hopefully we don’t mess up everything before we get it right… and hopefully the electric car (maybe the Chevy VOLT to start) will begin a new (more sustainable) direction in commuting.
Jan 20th, 2010 (6:42 am)I told GM all what should be done when i worked for them on the EV-1
finally they are listening to me.
We have to get the battery infrastructure in place as well.
we have to use the 123 batteries made by MIT back in the last century.
nano lithium (iron) phosphate ,make them in the USA not Taiwan or Japan or China at a reasonable price for the general public.
THEN get off the freaking political crap and put Americans back to work instead of all the dumb ass excuses.
I helped build the first EV-1 in secret for GM ..so now quit stalling
and sell me one (if GM is reading this you owe me one!)
+1
Jan 20th, 2010 (6:57 am)Look guys when i worked for GM way back last century i built hi tech stuff that still is the state of the art and no country in the world could out do us …if the present CEO can’t hack it, hire me i will work for nothing ….oh yeah by the way GM you cut off my health insurance and my taxes are bailing you guys out ,so far to the tune of $1.6 trillion dollars (from congress to all the car companies for a whole bunch of past years)… so here is my challenge to GM >>>get off your butt and beat the Japanese ,Chinese and Taiwan .Give me a great electric car please . P.s. i am still paying money to GM.
Jan 20th, 2010 (7:16 am)Great video. I do like Nuclearboy’s idea of a crying sheik.
+3
Jan 20th, 2010 (8:06 am)FYI, nice video but the Mannian ‘hockey stick’ graph you show has been totally discredited (over five years ago) by the National Academy of Sciences (and others). It is not an accurate or even semi-accurate portrayal of earth’s past temperatures (or future either).
Earth’s climate system is an open, complex, non-linear, chaotic system (see IPCC, AR 4). As Lorenz showed in his 1962 work on Chaotic Systems, it is impossible to predict the future state of such a system (even the near future) unless you know the initial state of every variable and understand ALL the processes affecting the system to a degree of precision that we can never achieve with the earth’s climate. There is much that we still don’t know about the climate system and the processes affecting it. Nir Shaviv, an Israeli Astro Physicist, has opined that the earth’s climate system is more complex than the quantum interactions at the subatomic level.
-1
Jan 20th, 2010 (9:36 am)If every iceburg in the world melted, it would not raise sea levels one millimeter.
Jan 20th, 2010 (9:48 am)Hi Bill Marsh, you need the hockey stick to push the liberal puck toward the goal. AGW is a hoax in my opinion so including it in the video is counter-productive because it becomes the focus rather than driving electric.
On the other hand I think including the need for more renewable energy sources is solid, not because they reduce CO2 emmissions, but because they reduce use of fossil fuel which pollutes the air. And yes, I think we should be building nuclear generation, but until the Government orders the shipment of all our spent fuel to their fuel storage and reprocessing facility, it is not going to happen.
Jan 20th, 2010 (10:34 am)Of course that’s wouldn’t be the commercial, but that is the principle behind the efficiency advantage of electric cars vs. IC. So that would be the basis of the advertising.
Not the fallacy of man made global warming. Depite what people or liberal “experts” believe and preach there is no scientific data showing global warming is man made.
Please stay away from the tree hugging angles or half of the country will stay away from EV’s on principle alone.
I’m probably the lone conservative in here. I’m all for the Volt but the Al Gore selling points ain’t gonna work.
+1
Jan 20th, 2010 (11:31 am)PUT IT ON THE MARKET ALREADY!!! if you make them available AND AFFORDABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, we will buy them. i promise. i would love to be able to take the solar power from the roof of my house and use it to power my electric car.
Jan 20th, 2010 (11:32 am)Great video!!!
Can the ability to harness and store electricity exceed or at least meet the current energy capacity of the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE)
What with the national promotion by T.Boone Pickens on the use of US natural gas (of which he is a major stockholder), will the foreseeable future really continue to be with the ICE (next 10 years), or with a viable, affordable, strictly electrical vehicle?
Only time will tell, but it seems to me, that so much of the automobile industry is hopelessly connected to the ICE, due to the mileage limitations currently available, that totally electrical options for personal vehicle transportation, is really a very long time off. I truly hope that is not the case–but reality keeps staring down the opportunity for the future.
Jan 20th, 2010 (11:37 am)I agree its bad, It may be a nice idea to pass his coordinates to chevy customer service through the twitter (http://twitter.com/GMCustomerSvc ).
Problems do happen, Its how they handle it and how they can comfort the user. I agree that the discomfort of the problem keep away a person from buying that brand. The perception depends on how the company handles the case also. Lets see how chevy handles it and how its diffenrent than old GM ( please keep us update )
Jan 20th, 2010 (11:46 am)Yikes Shawn, your asking for it with that one.
Define iceberg.
-1
Jan 20th, 2010 (12:07 pm)This latest version of the volt is not the one I signed up for seems like 2 yrs ago. That version was bad ass. This is not an unattractive car but for the kind of money they are going to want for it, i want the bad ass model,
-3
Jan 20th, 2010 (12:19 pm)OMG..Come on..
The Volt gets TERRIBLE milage per gallon…unimpressive miles per KW.
This is just another piece of JUNK that GM is trying to FORCE us to buy.
Let’s get Congress to fund $7500 of this crap…NO THANKS.
WE OWN YOU GM…BUILD US WHAT WE NEED….NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO FORCE DOWN OUT THROATS!!!!!
JERKS
-2
Jan 20th, 2010 (12:27 pm)Hmmmmm…. I’m frustrated because I’ve waited patiently to buy this vehicle while the release date seems to be forever pushed forward. When can I buy this car? I should have been done by now.
+1
Jan 20th, 2010 (12:33 pm)In my humble opinion man make global warming is bull poop. I believe the future is in electric cars but the moment you start talking about global warming you are going to tick a lot of people off. I happen to be driving my second hybrid vehicle and when the Volt is available I will switch to that. But the reason I drive hybrids and plan to drive electrics has nothing to do with global warming.
Global warming is a scam if you link the Volt with global warming you are linking the Volt with a scam.
Jan 20th, 2010 (1:27 pm)It all makes sense, except after watching Who Killed The Electric Car and seeing how GM killed it’s EV1 in 1999 for specious reasons, I probably will by a Ford electric car and not support GM. GM could have led the way. I bought a Ford Fusion hybridand love it and I’ll probably buy Ford’s electric car in 2011.
-1
Jan 20th, 2010 (1:41 pm)Don’t forget GM was a big part of killing the first electric car. Will they do it again? And I agree with mmooney; Ford has an electric focus coming out in the next few years (2012?) I would look at that first. Also don’t forget GM partnered with the oil companies to kill its first version, and then sold the battery rights to Standard Oil. So tell me GM why should I trust you this time?
+1
Jan 20th, 2010 (2:07 pm)Another good point; GM has sent a lot of their jobs to Mexico and other countries, and they have let their employees go and brought people in from India to replace them. I have also purchased 2 new vehicles from GM and we have had nothing but problems with both of them. I’m sorry but I will never buy a new GM vehicle again. I really don’t concider GM any more an American car company than I do Honda or Toyota.
Jan 20th, 2010 (4:02 pm)I was originally very interested in the Volt. In fact, I still am but I agree with Bob, The 35 -45k price tag really pushes me away from it. I would much rather buy american (especially in these times) but one thing this country is learing is to not over extend yourself and a 600-800 dollar car payment is a little more then over extending. And thats a doozey even for me and I make in the 70-80k range a year (granted im not married and am single income).
I will diligently await the day that I can afford one but im not going to kill myself to make a huge car payment when the economy is in the state it is. I wish they would have made a cheaper base model version for those of us who are looking to get in a little cheaper and want to still support the american economy.
Jeremy Ryan Miller
(PS the average income for the typical american house hold is between 55-80k a year so if I cant afford it then the majority of american house holds cant either)
Jan 20th, 2010 (4:26 pm)Hi Lyle.
This is nicely done. But I have one huge problem with it, and one small problem.
First the small problem. I don’t know what a cubic pound of carbon dioxide is. A pound is a not something that is easily or reliably cubed.
Now the big problem. Americans are not at war in the middle east because of the oil. We are at war because of some maniacs who attacked us. If Americans wanted the oil, we could have bought it for one tenth the price we are spending on the wars. Moreover, war in the middle east only pushes the price of oil higher. We all know this, and we went to war anyway. Even if we confiscated all of the oil in Iraq, it still wouldn’t pay for the war. So, spreading the message that we are there for the oil is hateful to Americans, and spreads hate for America all around the world. Moreover again, no-one who voted for the war, did it for the express purpose of getting at the oil. Please don’t subscribe to that nonsense. You are just encouraging the “death to America” chanters to spread their angry message louder. I respectfully ask that you consider removing the message about the 1 trillion dollar war as a reason for the Volt. The Volt has great reasons, but the war is not one of them. The trade deficit, the pollution, global warming, geopolitics of anger in the middle east, the opportunity for good jobs, a rebirth of manufacturing excellence in Detroit, cheaper transport, quieter, safer travel, etc etc, are good reasons. Stopping the importation of oil is good for the American economy, and I am all for stopping the war, but unfortunately they are not directly connected.
Jan 20th, 2010 (4:59 pm)Hi Dave,
I agree with all of the above. I realize that he can say whatever he wishes under the law, but I just personally didn’t find this to be his strongest work thus far. I also don’t agree with 100% of the video, which is the reason that I, for one, won’t redistribute this video. I don’t want to “put my name to,” so to speak, something that isn’t representative of my preferences.
+1
Jan 20th, 2010 (5:49 pm)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfO5Zfqc-zI
This is what the climate change is all about. DO NOT BE FOOLED.
-1
Jan 20th, 2010 (6:59 pm)Problem #1. The Chevy Volt is projected to retail at $44,000. All of the average people that can afford one have lost their high paying union job or are next in line to loose their job when this car fails to meet expected sales projections. That leaves Doctors, Lawyers and Wall Street professionals as the customer base. People like me won’t be driving one and I represent about 99% of the United States population. Problem #2. The Chinese are going to import cheap cars beginning in 2013. That is if the world doesn’t end December 21st 2012. They now have a Plug In Hybrid that out performs the Chevy Volt by traveling 60 miles before using the gas engine with plans to build another model that goes 100 miles before using gas power. Problem #3. India will start selling cars in America made by TATA Motors. The Nano sells for $2500 dollars in India. Faced with this kind of competition in the very near future, there is no way GM Ford or Chrysler will be able to survive. Unless they can keep their company’s going by laying off another 50% of the workforce and cater to millionaires only. Most of us aren’t millionaires and you can’t pay for a Chevy Volt or a Toyota Prius on Wal Mart wages. Most of us will be lucky to have a job of any kind 5 years from now let alone being able to pay a $800 monthly car payment for the next 5 years without defaulting on the loan. Then we would have to listen to a bunch of crap about how the Banks gave car loans to people that couldn’t afford them. I live in the REAL WORLD. Where do you live?
Jan 20th, 2010 (7:28 pm)The projected cost of in the low 30′s less the $7500 incentive assures the first few years of the Volt is already sold out.
If I can get one I will but will be OK with waiting till a utilitarian version like the Granite comes out.
This video doesn’t mention creating Hydrogen with solar power.
Hydrogen fuel cell electrics are the future.
+1
Jan 20th, 2010 (9:44 pm)nice video Lyle, it makes me wonder what would happen with a collaborative video compilation amongst all gm-volt readers? … aka electronic collaboration and contribution from multiple sources, starting with discussion leading to storyboarding followed by video submissions from across the country and ending with some (semi-)professional editing donated by a skilled member?
Jan 21st, 2010 (12:05 am)Ok, let us get some facts straight.
1. Honda and toyota are not made any better thatn Chevys or Fords. As a matter of fact ask yourself how many 1985 hondas or toyotas are still on the road and how many Chevys and Fords. Infact my 2007 Silverado has almost 50,000 miles and only oil changes and just did new tires, also my brakes have over 50% of the original pads left.
2. I am a smog Technician in California and I fail Japanese cars every day all day. As a matter of fact I faliled a 2004 BMW M3 today with High emissions, another POS 2003 Mitsubishi that is smokimg out the tailpipe at 72000 miles and a Camry.
3.Now,Let us Do some math.
Camry $35000, with an average of (wishful thinking)25 mpg and an average of 40000 miles in 3 years at $4 a gallon, is now $41,400, not including tax license blah blah and Toyota does not limit co2 or any other outgasses from their factories. So now you are paying the same if not more more and you are not done yet.
4. The average commute in LA is 24 miles round trip. with adding trips to the grocery store, the mall for my wife and dinner out at Dennys We still will NEVER need to go to the gas station and give those Rat finks any more money.
5. Back to the math…Volt $44000 (high estimate) minus 7500 tax break = $36500. And incase you didn’t understand how the tax break works it comes off your gross income not out of any tax payers pocket. WIN WIN
+1
Jan 21st, 2010 (4:54 am)Don’t by a Volt. Buy a Tesla Model S. Its much better for only a little more money and its pure electric. None of this hybrid crap.
Jan 21st, 2010 (6:30 am)Hi haley 350 …
Fair enough. I don’t plan on posting the video on other sites and emailings. Not because of content. It’s because I still don’t know what New GM and the Volt are about. About 1/2 the information I wish to know concerning the Volt is still presented as “planned”, “rumored”, “will be released closer to a later date…” . I don’t have a problem with this. It’s just how it is.
So not enough for me to stand on the street corner holding a GO GM VOLT sign.
When the CEO mentioned price a few days ago. It could be interpreted as anywhere from an after tax-credit range of $26,000 to $34,000. There is still the possibility of lease as far as we know. Just not enough information at this time.
=D~
Jan 21st, 2010 (10:37 am)Ugg. That “music” is HORRIBLE! So repetitive I had to mute it after 10 seconds. drone drone drone drone
Jan 21st, 2010 (5:34 pm)OK, so far down that nobody will ever read this…
Nice video although probably some copyright infractions in there (but who’s counting).
The “smug green” stuff always bothers me, when someone someday claims their Volt or other electric vehicle is “green” or “non-polluting”, I’ll say, “You do realize that 70% of our electricity is made from fossil fuels, right?”. If solar/wind/hemp/etc were so wonderful and cheap — we would already be using them.
Nice one showing the Arabs and then the former WTC, that will go over really well! Yikes.
As far as global warming, well I have no kids and will be dead in 50 years or less, so after that I honestly don’t care! I just want a Volt as a cool techie toy. Give me credit for honesty at least.
Jan 21st, 2010 (11:52 pm)Remember that permanent magnets can be man made, they do not have to be mined from the earth.
Jan 23rd, 2010 (7:39 am)***LOL*** / (really loud LOL).
Tag,
That’s the best compliment I’ve ever gotten. Seriously.
No kids. (Nor wife. No-one would put up with me in my house! lol).
But, sometimes, I’m needed by overworked technicians (about 850) by now, whom I consider all to be my friends, who need my help through the tough problems, and to systematically organize thier diagnotic processes.
Thank you again for your very kind and highly astute compliment.
Dan in Austin TX.
Jan 23rd, 2010 (8:03 am)Jakson at #309,
I think one of the messages that Lyle was trying to convey is that we have used all sorts of leverages to get anything and everything out of the ground, for which many expect no consequences whatsoever.
Mercury in fish from coal burning has consequences that are proven, and the list goes on and on.
Even where I can prove to a technician right before his very eyes that a battery in a car is ok to start it, but not ok to run software, still, twenty percent have a need to not believe the test equipment. This may be because they are financially in a situation where there is a perception that only selling a battery will not meet financial obligations for the day. (Although I had not yet revealed the other two or three more serious problems that would indeed go far toward the financial responsibilities of the day, if properly explained to the customer as an exact set of proposed servicing priorities.).
There were people in the fifties that complained against being told to “not be a litterbug” and throw trash out of their cars onto the highway. (So they kept defiantly doing it anyway until fines were introduced to help stop the “buttheads” from starting grass fires at the side of the road).
It’s exactly the same thing where coal fired power is set up for cheapie-electricity in order to allow the industrialization of non-essential product manufacturers to produce “junk” to sell worldwide, and, as a consequence, to disperse mercury worldwide at the same time.
They are trashing the planet, as allowed and certainly promoted by “free trade” and “free market” pulblic policies that also are universally-bankrupting. The religion of “free market/let the market decide” has set up the most corrupt of public policies as well as internal-national-security corrupt policies.
Jan 23rd, 2010 (8:24 am)Hey Jon,
There are several things about natural gas and automotive and truck propulsion that ought to be kept in mind.
Natural gas is natural. It is not refined. It has impurities. One being carbon dioxide, another being sulphur (dioxide?), but sulphur anyway.
Do this extremely simple experiment for yourself.
If you have a gas stove in the kitchen, just go an turn it on in the morning for ten mornings in a row (For about a minute if you have electric ignition, which will finally get the street random mixture of gasses up to the burner. Pilot flame types will have the street random mixture there for you to view immediately). You will notice different colors of the flame each and every morning. On mornings where there is a lot of natural gas usage (cold weather/other homes using lots of it for heating), you may notice that the flame is not that blue color completely. You may notice yellow, and even orange.
These are different other gasses coming through, causing a slight or not as slight amount of carbon monoxide to be produced. That is why you never heat your home with natural gas burners on the stove.
Natural gas for electricity production is a good idea as opposed to coal, of course, but, it is insufficiently consistent in its composite gas content to be tolerated by motorists behind a truck, say, when it puts out sulphur compounds that not only stink, but, accelerate the onset of cumulative damage to lungs from increased exposure to sulphur compound “insults” as they are called in medicine. (But it’s ok just for cooking usually if someone in the house has asthma).
Thanks for your post.
Jan 23rd, 2010 (10:50 am)I love the Volt concept,,,HOWEVER,,,I, as many americans and others around the world can only dream of purchasing a rich man’s toy like this. We, are stuck with older vehicles which only get around 17 mph at best,,,,,we would like to help save the planet,,,so we buy 5 energy saving light bulbs (which I have done)..How do EVs help when most will not be able to afford them?…. Good Luck with the project!
Jan 24th, 2010 (7:40 am)The video leaves out the reality of electric use now, namely it is not wind and solar that will drive these cars, most electricity companies use coal (e.g. Alabama Power Co.) which is not clean and has a large carbon footprint albeit much better than oil any day. Let’s keep truth in the equation.
Secondly, the batteries will last 8-10 years(?), and then we will have a ?nonrecyclable waste and a another $10,000 cost for a replacement battery.
But yes, I have my name in to buy a Volt
Jan 25th, 2010 (10:11 am)Don’t get me wrong I am not putting the Volt down, I am putting the video down. As I said it appears to be too self serving, as well as telling the viewer that if they do buy the volt then the world will be ok.
And yes, I love the Volt I think it’s a fantastic bit of engineering. I was mainly criticizing the video however, the Volt has plenty of merit to its name. It is also a very big stepping stone for the industry.
-1
Jan 25th, 2010 (10:59 am)Don’t give up on the internal combustion engine yet. There is new technology coming out that will change how many people look at the “old” way of propelling a vehicle.
As for me, I look at some of these little glorified golfcarts that pass as cars, and consider how Government Motors want to put us into them. It’s like the perfect storm: The government mandates what kind of cars they want us to buy, and can manipulate the safety and fuel standards to whatever makes that happen. It’s just another way to achieve a dubious goal the current regime has…population control. So, have a nice day!
Jan 25th, 2010 (4:08 pm)Surely you aren’t referring to the Volt as a golf cart, if so, you are more uninformed about this car then you are your politics.
Jan 25th, 2010 (11:27 pm)I must respectfully disagree. Storing electrical energy by electrolysing water, compressing the hydrogen gas for storage, then using a fuel cell to produce electricity is only 24% efficient. Using a charger and batteries is 85% efficient, more than 3x better than using hydrogen! Even if we used one battery to store that solar electricity and used that battery to charge an EV, the overall efficiency is still 72%, still 3x more efficient than using hydrogen. Do you really want to have to pay for 3x more of those expensive solar panels?
While almost all automakers will have an EV or plug-in hybrid within 3 years. No H2 fuel cell cars will be available for sale before 2015, even then only if the costs can be substantially reduced and more hydrogen refueling built. Improved battery technology now under development might render H2 fuel cell vehicles obsolete before they arrive.
Both GM and Ford have changed their hydrogen programs, the hew plan is for plug-in hybrids like the Volt using H2 fuel cell as a range extender only. That way, most local driving can be done on much cheaper electricity, they can use a less powerful but cheaper fuel cell, and since the fuel cell will be used much less it will last longer.
Jan 31st, 2010 (12:37 pm)this video presents some interesting data, but keep in mind that people always have to question the accuracy and the source of data [although not withstanding the details of the data presented, the overall conclusion is a sensible one to me even though i don't think that anyone really knows with any degree of certainty how a real global warming scenario will actually play out].
as to the major thrust of the video, i would say that the only people who would actually be more inclined to by an EV are those who had already decided to do so anyway.
the way that you sell an EV to the general public is the same way that you sell any product: by identifying attributes that buyers value in an automobile and then identifying on what attributes the EV performs better than an internal combustion engine. for example, low end torque is better in an EV, an EV is (most likely) quieter, maybe an EV requires less maintenance…these are the kinds of things that a typically buyer will find more compelling.
as to the Volt specifically, the EREV implementation is the right decision; you can’t put too much faith in the range projections for EVs because there are too many conditions under which the actual range may vary – and if you guess wrong and run out of electricity in an EV-only vehicle, you could find yourself in considerable difficulty. furthermore, few people really own an EV-only vehicle as an only vehicle: as a practical matter, it can only be, at best, a second vehicle. however, the Volt can be the only car that you own. this is an important feature that makes the Volt a more practical vehicle than any of the proposed EV-only options.
Jan 31st, 2010 (1:03 pm)I just love this video. I’m glad I could watch it again.
It’s really exceptional, Lyle. I think we just got hit with a large number of mixed views. I still think it ought to be sent over to lots of PBS station managers as a PSA.
Thanks for your hard work in making it.
(I’ll hang out here for twenty minutes if you have a response).
Dan.
+1
Mar 26th, 2010 (9:47 pm)The biggest problem here is that NO ONE is making an AFFORDABLE electric car. Take for instance the car you’re advertising. It went from a reasonable price to the outlandish price of $40,000 before it was completed. And they’ve changed the whole style of it as well from a futuristic design to just another little family car. (They all look the same anymore!) I’m all for the electric car phenomenon, but I think I’ll wait for a cheaper brand. Nice video, but maybe suggest alternative electric cars instead of just the Chevy Volt. The Ford Focus EV is due out next year. (2011) The Nissan Leaf is said to be going for $30,000 and should be on the market again this year. Hell… Tesla is only going for just over $100,000. (Yeah… I’ll just get two of those to go please!)