Jan 12

Cadillac XTS Platinum Plug-in Hybrid

 


[ad#post_ad]GM has just unveiled a breathtaking luxury sedan concept car powered by the 2-mode plugin hybrid drivetrain. This appears to be the final resting place of the powertrain that was first intended for the Saturn VUE.

The vehicle showcases Cadillac’s new top-of-the line Platinum series, and is considered a luxury sedan of the future.

“The XTS Platinum concept is the next expression of Cadillac’s Art and Science execution philosophy, reflecting our drive to deliver the latest innovations in the most artful manner,” said Bryan Nesbitt, Cadillac general manager. “We envisioned this concept as an automotive personal headquarters, using advanced technology to enable new levels of connectivity and luxury.”

A 3.6 L V-6 Direct Injection engine is mated with the 2-mode plugin hybrid drivetrain to produce a combined 350 horsepower and 295 foot-pounds of torque. It uses a rechargeable 8 kwh lithium ion battery that can be recharged in about 5 hours. Driving can be done in pure electric mode under most driving conditions, with the car’s goal to deplete the battery’s grid-stored energy over a 20 mile range. When extra power is demanded such as during acceleration and hill climbs, the combustion engine can power on.

Fuel economy should work out to be double what a conventional hybrid of this size would achieve.

It is all wheel drive, shares teh Buick LaCrosse platform and uses a Magnetic Ride Control (MRC) system in which all 4 wheels continuously sense the road and adjust for instantaneous and extremely precise body motions.

The stately, luxurious and athletic exterior is conceived of in what Cadillac is calling a progressive art and science design. It is a large bold car similar in size to the DTS, but more stylish and somewhat reminiscent of the Mercedes S-class.

The interior is opulent and spacious and minimizes the use of buttons, blending the display screen into a flowing back-lit organic LED panel.

The XTS series is expected to go into production in 2012. No pricing is known but if you think $40,000 is expensive for a car…

This entry was posted on Tuesday, January 12th, 2010 at 7:28 am and is filed under Cadillac, PHEV. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 175


  1. 1
    Dan Petit

    +13

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dan Petit
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:43 am)

    GM is certainly doing their marketing research extremely well.
    Another incredibly-configured Cadillac for the luxury version of the plug-in Voltec system.
    One may increasingly be astonished by how far ahead of all other OEM’s GM has accelerated with Voltec.
    It’s just completely amazing every day now.


  2. 2
    Loboc

    +11

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Loboc
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:43 am)

    Now we’re talking! Here is where ‘hybrid’ should go into the future. The concept of hybrid in a dual-mode configuration can be very powerful.

    Eventually, these designs will filter down into more affordable Buick and Chevrolet (like Impala) iterations.

    I like it!


  3. 3
    Van

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Van
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:44 am)

    A nice step toward the future. Another step will be the Voltec Caddy.


  4. 4
    CDAVIS

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CDAVIS
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:45 am)

    ______________________________________________________
    GM,
    Please Kill that dang 2-Mode and put in its place Voltec.

    GM developing/manufacturing/supporting/marketing both the 2-Mode platform and Voltec platform represents more – than + on several fronts.

    To win, KEEP IT SIMPLE!
    ______________________________________________________


  5. 5
    Dave K.

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave K.
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:45 am)

    XTS Platinum or the Converj? Which do you choose to own?

    GM is seeking to produce the XTS Platinum to get the most bang on their R&D buck. Although a nice car, may sell in small numbers.

    =D~


  6. 6
    JeremyK

    +7

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JeremyK
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:50 am)

    Having an 8kWh battery pack is significant. I think it shows clearly that GM is going to offer reduced range options to lower the cost of these new plug-in hybrids. I bet this 8kWh pack will show up in other vehicles as well.


  7. 7
    Exp_EngTech

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Exp_EngTech
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:53 am)

    GM,

    Please focus all your remaining resources on bringing electric vehicles to the masses. Not high end vehicles for the “well to do”.

    A VOLTec powered mini van and a commuter BEV would get the average car consumers attention.


  8. 8
    Loboc

    +9

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Loboc
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:00 am)

    CDAVIS: Please Kill that dang 2-Mode and put in its place Voltec

    I like the concept of dual-mode as a compliment to Voltec. For larger vehicles it makes sense to drive the wheels with both electric and gas drives. The R&D is already done.

    To meet CAFE and power (gov’t and customer) needs/wants this is a good way to do it. The requirements for the electric drive are smaller than a full Voltec system this large.


  9. 9
    Neil

    +13

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Neil
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:00 am)

    I think this will sell quite well especially if the final car looks like the concept. And I think it’s a very smart move on GM’s part. If they can sway the Lexus type crowd back to American cars the trickle-down effect is huge.

    First, it leads to greater profits for an American manufacturer leading to more jobs here. Second, it adds fuel for R&D to incorporate the tech for the rest of us. Lastly, putting all your electric eggs in one basket is not the best idea — having a diversity of technology always leads to better ideas in the future and attracts better talent for building those technologies.


  10. 10
    Tagamet

    +8

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:04 am)

    JeremyK: Having an 8kWh battery pack is significant.I think it shows clearly that GM is going to offer reduced range options to lower the cost of these new plug-in hybrids.I bet this 8kWh pack will show up in other vehicles as well.  

    I agree that GM may be seeing this size battery as the “sweet spot” of cost/size. I do wish that it was in more than an upper crust vehicle, but as has already been mentioned, this will trickle down to other, more common vehicles. GM NEEDS a vehicle like this to get some profits rolling in, so they can continue their efforts!
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  11. 11
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:06 am)

    Neil: I think this will sell quite well especially if the final car looks like the concept. And I think it’s a very smart move on GM’s part. If they can sway the Lexus type crowd back to American cars the trickle-down effect is huge.First, it leads to greater profits for an American manufacturer leading to more jobs here. Second, it adds fuel for R&D to incorporate the tech for the rest of us. Lastly, putting all your electric eggs in one basket is not the best idea — having a diversity of technology always leads to better ideas in the future and attracts better talent for building those technologies.  

    Well- said. Our posts crossed, but I was trying to make the same points.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  12. 12
    JohnK

    -6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JohnK
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:13 am)

    It certainly looks impressive, but that is one big honkin’ ICE. Looks like it could single-handedly start global warming :) .


  13. 13
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:16 am)

    It was just on the news that GM announced SEVEN new vehicles at the auto show!
    Honda had a 75 mpg hybrid there that they described as a “favorite”. It looked surprisingly “roomy” – not a tiny car.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    /gotta run. bbl
    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  14. 14
    tom

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    tom
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:18 am)

    Loboc: Here is where ‘hybrid’ should go into the future.

    Personally I think hybrid cars can all have at least 12 miles AER with a 5-7 KWH battery depending on size of car. Other than that I think hybrid tech is wasted, rest of cars should be EREV or BEV.

    Car companies might as well start planning their lineups for 5 years down the road when batteries are much cheaper and lighter than they are now. Thats whats nice about the VOLT. You don’t have to change the car as batteries improve.

    What is it now 440 pounds for 16kwh at $10,000.
    In 2 years 440 pounds 16kwh at $6,000 40 AER
    In 4 years 440 pounds 24kwh at $5,000 60 AER
    in 6 years 440 pounds 40kwh at $4,000 100 AER

    Also EREV cost will come down as the other electric components are reduced in cost.

    The only news I’m waiting for to make the above happen is changing those tax credits to cash at time of purchase.

    Then GM won’t be able to make these cars fast enough.


  15. 15
    JohnK

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JohnK
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:19 am)

    Exp_EngTech: Please focus all your remaining resources on bringing electric vehicles to the masses. Not high end vehicles for the “well to do”.

    I hate to point out the obvious, but $40K just might be considered for “the well to do”. Getting the costs down takes hard work and patience. Gotta recover up front costs and trim down operational manufacturing costs. It will come.


  16. 16
    deyobr

    -2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    deyobr
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:21 am)

    This vehicle looks nice and will get great acceptance on this site but it will be a total faiure in the market. It will compete against the likes of the S-class, 740iL, Lexus LS 460, and Audi A8. All of those vehicles are rear wheel drive architects running on long wheelbases with massive rear luxury seats and cabins. This vehicle is based on a streached version of the same platform that the Chevy Malibu and Buick Lacross are on.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love Cadillac and that is part of my frustration. I really wanted this vehicle to be a real competitor in the ultra luxury space and then leave room for the CTS to move up and compete with the 5-series, A6, and E-class. Then the new ATS will slot in below to compete with the 3-series and C-class with the converj filling the final exotic sports car halo position. As it is, this car is just a very well executed and classy replacement for the current DTS. Nothing more. Just an updated version with a different way of getting the power (V6 vs. V8). It will handle better, but there will be zero cross shopping with the buyers of the target audience. I’m not sure who will buy this and that means it will be a flop.

    Lastly, I love the looks, but something about the front makes me thing of the last generation ford fusion. Something about the way the headlights and fog lights are in line and wrap up the hood slightly.


  17. 17
    Schmeltz

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Schmeltz
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:25 am)

    Tagamet: GM NEEDS a vehicle like this to get some profits rolling in, so they can continue their efforts!

    Yes, agreed. GM does need this vehicle as well as the Converj that has been confirmed for production. When I was little kid, one of my relatives bought a Chrysler New Yorker land yacht decades ago. It had air conditioning and power windows and we all were just dazzled how luxurious this car was. Now, a car without AC and power windows is the exception. These new technologies are going in their rightful place (Cadillac) IMO. I’m glad the Volt is a Chevrolet, but I’m also glad that GM is considering and developing Plug-in Cadillacs.

    Nice Suprise GM…Thank you.


  18. 18
    RB

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    RB
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:27 am)

    9 Neil: … putting all your electric eggs in one basket is not the best idea — having a diversity of technology always leads to better ideas in the future and attracts better talent for building those technologies.  

    It could be that you are right, but for purposes of discussion let me argue the other side. The weakness of gm in recent years has been having too many products, none of them outstanding, and too little focus on any one of them to make it outstanding.

    With that in mind, I’d rather see gm be focused on EREV and be outstanding with its execution, rather than a gm that is sometimes EREV, sometimes BEV, sometimes 2-mode, sometimes 2-mode with plug-in, and then again frequently just ICE. With respect to 2-mode, it is not new. Rather it has so far been too heavy, too complicated, and too expensive to enjoy any sales success.

    So I ask myself, why is gm putting this poorly conceived vehicle out there? And maybe the most sensible answer is that gm is not putting out anything — it is just a concept car for an auto show, just playing around with various ideas, not a commitment to do anything. If so, that is good :)


  19. 19
    joe

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    joe
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:29 am)

    We all know the two-mode is expensive and does not belong in the less expensive vehicles.This transmission will someday find a place in the cheaper vehicles but for now, it just wouldn’t make sense. Well finally, it has found a marketable home. I’m glad GM came to it senses. It would have been a sin to have gotten rid of it. Now, the Cadillac can complete with the best of the best and be the winner in every dept of performance.

    Keep up the good work GM!!


  20. 20
    linkin park

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    linkin park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:29 am)

    man i just love the converj or not this one. this looks good but converj is a twin of chevy volt so i liked it a lot.


  21. 21
    zipdrive

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    zipdrive
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:30 am)

    I believe I have found the car that will replace my 2004 DeVille when, and if, it ever wears out!


  22. 22
    kdawg

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:40 am)

    This car would sell to people looking for luxury, smooth ride, green, but still have lots of power. It also helps GM w/their CAFE.


  23. 23
    nasaman

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nasaman
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:56 am)

    JohnK: It certainly looks impressive, but that is one big honkin’ ICE. Looks like it could single-handedly start global warming .  (Quote)

    Actually, the ICE is pretty modest in size at 3.6 L, powering a car this large.

    This FWD 2-mode drive train has been of great interest to me since GM first announced it at the 2006 LA Auto Show as planned for the Saturn Vue, where they also said a plug-in version would be available. In fact, this same drive train was a major reason I flew to VoltNation 2 yrs ago, where I gave Bob Lutz my 2-page treatise on it in which I strongly advocated a larger Li-Ion battery and at least a 20-mile AER. I’m pleased to see GM apparently agreed and has followed thru —this Platinum XTS concept car would be a stunning replacement for the aging DTS and an excellent flagship car for Cadillac …..an ultimate expression of Cadillac’s Art and Science as they’ve said it.

    At long last GM appears ready to take on Europe’s and Japan’s finest luxury cars —could they again become “the Standard of the World”?


  24. 24
    BillR

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    BillR
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:58 am)

    The 3.6L in the Chevy Malibu puts out about 250 hp. With direct injection in the CTS it is 304 hp. How are they getting this engine to 350 hp? Does this use some mild turbocharging, or are they including some electric power from the 2-mode with the engine to get the 350 hp rating? Interesting possibilities.

    So now combine a large luxurious car with AWD and 350 hp. This gives an excellent ride and spirited performance, without the need for a V8 engine.

    With the 2-mode, the Vue was rated 28/31. This car will likely be in similar territory, since it is probably heavier, yet has a lower frontal area (lower roofline).

    With the plug-in, the battery pack is essentially a 1/2 scale Volt pack, with 8 kWh and 4 kWh usable. This will probably provide about 16 miles blended AER. Therefore, with a single charge every day, and a 40 mile daily drive (365 days per year, 14,600 miles per year), the composite fuel economy should be about 50 mpg [ 40/((40-16)/30)) ].


  25. 25
    Jason M. Hendler

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jason M. Hendler
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (9:03 am)

    It will be interesting to see how this vehicle eventually competes with the Converj.


  26. 26
    deyobr

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    deyobr
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (9:12 am)

    Jason M. Hendler: It will be interesting to see how this vehicle eventually competes with the Converj.  

    Competes with the Converj? Are you serious? It is a four door land yacht and the converj is smaller than the volt and is a coupe. I’m not sure what you mean?


  27. 27
    Van

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Van
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (9:13 am)

    Hi Tom @ 14, I like your thinking! But I do want to quibble about your timeline.

    1 Gen Volt – 16 kwh costing $12,000 in 2012
    2 Gen Volt – 16 kwh costing $6000 in 2015

    The second Generation battery will have twice the energy density (i.e. 250 Wh/kg) and cost half as much as the Generation 1 battery. GM will also enlarge the utilization window from 55% to 70% (11.2 kwh window) for a real world range of 40 AER.

    I also believe the complex and pricy 2 mode will be history with Ford and Toyota hybrid design proving to be superior. Time will tell.


  28. 28
    Eco

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Eco
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (9:30 am)

    Did anyone also hear what Lutz said about gasoline taxes? Why isn’t that up on this page?

    He talked about the benefits of a 25 cent increase per year in the federal gas tax (for 3 years), to incentivize consumers to buy efficient cars.

    I laughed out loud when he said that consumers memory of gasoline prices is 3 weeks long. In just 3 weeks people go from buying Tahoes to buying a Focus to buying an F-150 or Escalade.

    The initial price of the Volt will vary according to the projcted price of a gallon of gas.

    And in the companion story, Iraq is anticipated to attempt to out-export Saudi Arabia in crude oil. Which is good, because I don’t need gas prices to stay over 3.00 a gallon.


  29. 29
    tom

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    tom
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (9:47 am)

    Van: Hi Tom @ 14, I like your thinking! But I do want to quibble about your timeline.
    1 Gen Volt – 16 kwh costing $12,000 in 2012
    2 Gen Volt – 16 kwh costing $6000 in 2015
    The second Generation battery will have twice the energy density (i.e. 250 Wh/kg) and cost half as much as the Generation 1 battery.

    Van;
    Well we are both making guesses here, we only know for sure batteries will continue to give better performance for the money.

    But do you really thing GEN II isn’t until 2015? I have to think your GEN I estimate (2011 not 2012) of $12,000 for 16kwh must be including warranty and startup costs.

    Also you say 2015 will double the energy density to 250 wh/KG, that means 64KG (130 pounds) to get 16kwh so the pack would weigh perhaps 250 pounds, I think at that time they would have options of 40 or 80 mile AER.

    However I am much more optimistic on how fast these things will happen. Once the VOLT has been in production for a couple years, and all the other component prices are down, it won’t take that much to incorporate the latest battery advancements into each model year.

    So I would really like to know what model year GEN II would be, say 2013, but I think every model year starting with 2013 has the potential to incorporate a significant improvement in battery.

    I think this is no different than Moore’s law for computer chips over the last 30 years. Maybe it will be every 12 months, maybe every 18 months, maybe every 24 months, but very frequently GM will be incorporating the latest battery designs and the improvements will be significant.

    There is a marketing/psychological advantage to rolling out an improved battery with every model year, even if it is only incremental improvement. I also think we could see price reductions on these cars every 6 months (to keep people buying instead of waiting for the next model).


  30. 30
    Herm

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Herm
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (9:49 am)

    This is probably the only way for the very-large-luxury-land-barge department to meet CAFE regulations.. the 20 mile AER will appeal to many people and perhaps it can be increased for a relatively modest cost as battery prices continue to improve.

    Most of the stuff would come from the existing parts bin.

    The FWD 2-Mode transmision coupled to the 2.4L Ecotec Equinox engine is probably underpowered for this class of car.. but if you added a new RWD Voltec setup then it would be neat. You could get rid of the transmission tunnel and go back to using huge bench seats in the front.. cool.

    GM needs to develop RWD Voltec eventually.. or RWD will die.

    A new RWD Voltec in the GM parts bin could be very handy for a Voltec Camaro, Corvette and Electrado pickup truck.


  31. 31
    Herm

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Herm
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:01 am)

    nasaman: This FWD 2-mode drive train has been of great interest to me since GM first announced it at the 2006 LA Auto Show as planned for the Saturn Vue, where they also said a plug-in version would be available.

    But this Cadillac is AWD.. how are they implementing that?.. I think the FWD 2-Mode transmission is still dead.


  32. 32
    Van

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Van
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:04 am)

    Hi Tom @ 29, I agree with everything you said.

    Why 2012 rather than 11? Because the Gen 1 Volt introduced in late 2010 will be the 2011 model. They will make 8 to 10 thousand of them.
    Then, for the 2012 model year run, starting late 2011, they say if demand is there, they will make the cars at a rate of 60,000 per year. So Gen 1 becomes available to the average buyer in 2012.

    Why 2015 rather than 2013 for Gen 2? I think the LG battery contract was for 3 years (2011, 2012, and 2013 model years) So I sure can lower my guess for Gen 2 to model year 2014, which should hit the showrooms in late 2013.

    Thanks for the discussion.


  33. 33
    DonC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:05 am)

    Looks nice and the existing Cadillac needed a refresh very badly. In a couple of years both Cadillac and Buick will have very appealing cars.

    I’d consider this car. The Volt is a terrific car and I want one, but it’s small and not very well suited for longer drives. Something like this would work well for that.

    I need to check out the new Honda Tag has mentioned. I like Honda products but so far Honda has managed to not get the hybrids right at all. Hopefully they’ll do better this time around.


  34. 34
    CorvetteGuy

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:06 am)

    Jason M. Hendler: It will be interesting to see how this vehicle eventually competes with the Converj.  (Quote)

    There are Over-50 fat guys like me who enjoy driving their living room sofa down the street. [XTS]

    There are Over-50 fat guys like me who prefer sports cars that turn heads. [Converj]

    I prefer the latter, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t enjoy owning both if I could afford them.

    In fact, the entire Cadillac lineup has been getting better and better in the last 2 years. And future models are even more exciting.

    I’m thinking of making a move across the street. Tough decision. I’ve been a Chevy guy for years.


  35. 35
    Jim I

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim I
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:08 am)

    BillR: The 3.6L in the Chevy Malibu puts out about 250 hp. With direct injection in the CTS it is 304 hp. How are they getting this engine to 350 hp? Does this use some mild turbocharging, or are they including some electric power from the 2-mode with the engine to get the 350 hp rating? Interesting possibilities.</ ].  (Quote)

    =========================

    I just saw this on autoblog:

    “The net combined output of the V6 and hybrid system is listed at 350 horsepower and 295 pound-feet of torque. ”

    So your guess about the 350 HP being a combination of the ICE and electric motor seems correct.

    OK, now to start the contest:

    How much do you think this car will cost? As a “Platinum” model, it will be fully loaded.

    Here is my guess: $80,000

    What do you think?

    :-)


  36. 36
    William

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    William
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:11 am)

    IMO, this is an absolutely gorgeous car! It’s even better than the Converj. I mean, I love the Converj, but I prefer sedans and I wanted one that was the size of the Impala or larger.

    They were talking about double fuel economy of a hybrid of that size. I don’t believe that there has even been a hybrid car that is 200-inches-long or larger, though.

    However, if they can double the DTS fuel economy……

    The DTS (with the 300 hp V8) is currently rated at 15 city, 22 hwy. So, if they can make this car get 30 city, 44 hwy or more, then this will sell like hotcakes and leapfrog the competition.

    So, you can get amazing power, but still get sweet fuel economy! Go for it, GM! Don’t let this concept die…..build it, PLEASE!!!!!!!


  37. 37
    Schmeltz

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Schmeltz
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:22 am)

    CorvetteGuy: I’m thinking of making a move across the street. Tough decision. I’ve been a Chevy guy for years.

    Hi CorvetteGuy:
    In that last comment, did you mean you would be moving to a Cadillac dealership? Would such a move then necessitate a name change here to “CadillacGuy?”


  38. 38
    Rashiid Amul

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Rashiid Amul
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:28 am)

    I just won sometime kind of poker chip gimmick scratch-off from a local dealer who sells Cadillac. Supposedly I won $25,000 in a mailing that I never entered. I totally expect this is a scam. However, I would not mind driving a Chevy. I wonder if I can wait for the Volt to turn up.


  39. 39
    Loboc

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Loboc
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:30 am)

    Eco: In just 3 weeks people go from buying Tahoes to buying a Focus to buying an F-150 or Escalade.

    GM and other manufacturers should tighten up their supply chain and go for a more custom-order-oriented sales approach. In this way, they won’t be caught with an incorrect inventory mix. Having pre-built cars on hand should only be for show-n-order not direct sales.

    I don’t know about other people, but, I take at least a year to decide what I want. It so happened that there was a zone car that matched my needs/wants the last time, but, it would be very cool to have a little plaque saying that the car was ‘Custom Built for Loboc’ on the rocker panel caps :) Kind of like a little custom welcome-mat for your car.


  40. 40
    tom

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    tom
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:32 am)

    Van: 2011 model. They will make 8 to 10 thousand of them.
    Then, for the 2012 model year run, starting late 2011, they say if demand is there, they will make the cars at a rate of 60,000 per year.

    Van @32;
    I think this site proves the demand is there.

    What I guess I’m assuming is they designed this thing (and the software) to easily plop in an improved battery with each model year if one is available. I assume GEN II would incorporate many other improvements in other components perhaps by 2013.

    I am certainly hoping that each model year could see incremental improvements in the batteries. I think that is more important to growing the production volumes then every 3 years making a giant leap, because they need to sell the cars in ever increasing numbers to get the other costs down as well rather than have folks waiting 3 years for the next break through in batteries.


  41. 41
    EVO

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    EVO
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:42 am)

    A plug and AWD with luxury. Nice.

    My Volvo 850 turbo wagon with on demand 4WD weighed around 4,000 pounds and had around 225 horses and felt plenty punchy, so 350 horses sounds ridiculously overpowered to me, but I’m not Joe NASCAR cut someone off in heavy commuter traffic in order to go slower in front of them.


  42. 42
    nasaman

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nasaman
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:48 am)

    Herm: But this Cadillac is AWD.. how are they implementing that?.. I think the FWD 2-Mode transmission is still dead.  (Quote)

    You may be right, Herm — the GM press release makes no mention of 2 mode but does say the concept is AWD. My guess is they will use the FWD 2-mode and add an electric motor/axle or hub motors on the rear to achieve AWD. It’s just a concept car, so the exact drive train architecture may still be undecided at this time.


  43. 43
    RVD

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    RVD
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:49 am)

    Finally a step that makes sense. Chevy is not a brand to carry $40000 price tag, Caddy is


  44. 44
    MuddyRoverRob

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MuddyRoverRob
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:54 am)

    Herm:
    But this Cadillac is AWD.. how are they implementing that?..I think the FWD 2-Mode transmission is still dead.  

    Generally speaking the difference between the AWD and FWD versions of a transmission is simply the addition/deletion of the rear output shaft.

    Seeing AWD available on this car definitely got my attention!


  45. 45
    MuddyRoverRob

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MuddyRoverRob
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (11:15 am)

    nasaman:
    Actually, the ICE is pretty modest in size at 3.6 L, powering a car this large.
    This FWD 2-mode drive train has been of great interest to me since GM first announced it at the 2006 LA Auto Show as planned for the Saturn Vue, where they also said a plug-in version would be available. In fact, this same drive train was a major reason I flew to VoltNation 2 yrs ago, where I gave Bob Lutz my 2-page treatise on it in which I strongly advocated a larger Li-Ion battery and at least a 20-mile AER. I’m pleased to see GM apparently agreed and has followed thru —this Platinum XTS concept car would be a stunning replacement for the aging DTS and an excellent flagship car for Cadillac …..an ultimate expression of Cadillac’s Art and Science as they’ve said it.At long last GM appears ready to take on Europe’s and Japan’s finest luxury cars —could they again become “the Standard of the World”?  

    Agreed Nasaman.

    There is a push on this site (understandably) to have cars do everything on nothing.

    But the engine size thing drives me crazy! They yank out a V8 and put in a mid size modern V6 and people still complain!

    ———————————————————————————

    Don’t get me started on the people who call the Volt’s 1.4 litre genset ‘huge’! All these comments prove is that that person knows absolutely nothing about automotive engines!

    ———————————————————————————

    Sorry for the rant but I really think this sort of comment makes our otherwise excellent commentary look like a bunch of unrealistic loons!

    I’m off to deal with the aftermath of a burst pipe in my basement…


  46. 46
    Noel Park

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (11:27 am)

    I predict that this will be the next big seller for GM, rivaling the 2-mode Tahoe and Silverado for sheer massive volume sales.

    LJGTVWOTR!!


  47. 47
    Gary

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Gary
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (11:29 am)

    Tagamet: Honda had a 75 mpg hybrid there that they described as a “favorite”. It looked surprisingly “roomy” – not a tiny car.

    I assume you’re not talking about this disappointment:

    http://jalopnik.com/5445212/honda-cr+z-122-hp-33-mpg-worst-of-all-worlds?skyline=true&s=i


  48. 48
    Mark Bartosik

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mark Bartosik
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (11:38 am)

    Hey Nasaman – you must be pleased today.
    I remember your posts back then and we met a Volt Nation.

    It’s just a shame the View plugin didn’t get it too rather than getting killed in bankruptcy.

    nasaman:
    Actually, the ICE is pretty modest in size at 3.6 L, powering a car this large.
    This FWD 2-mode drive train has been of great interest to me since GM first announced it at the 2006 LA Auto Show as planned for the Saturn Vue, where they also said a plug-in version would be available. In fact, this same drive train was a major reason I flew to VoltNation 2 yrs ago, where I gave Bob Lutz my 2-page treatise on it in which I strongly advocated a larger Li-Ion battery and at least a 20-mile AER. I’m pleased to see GM apparently agreed and has followed thru —this Platinum XTS concept car would be a stunning replacement for the aging DTS and an excellent flagship car for Cadillac …..an ultimate expression of Cadillac’s Art and Science as they’ve said it.At long last GM appears ready to take on Europe’s and Japan’s finest luxury cars —could they again become “the Standard of the World”?  


  49. 49
    MetrologyFirst

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MetrologyFirst
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (11:57 am)

    tom:
    I think this is no different than Moore’s law for computer chips over the last 30 years.Maybe it will be every 12 months, maybe every 18 months, maybe every 24 months, but very frequently GM will be incorporating the latest battery designs and the improvements will be significant.  

    This is the question, In a nutshell. To everything we spend so much time talking about.

    Do we truely think this is the case? Will battery development follow Moore’s law for chip development? Or not? What about battery production and availability?

    I would love to know what the battery experts say. I have a feeling we may be in for an unfortunate suprise.

    Given this, I think GM’s approach with the Volt, this Cadillac, and with their other hybrid offerings is correct. Their approach does not rely on future battery capability or breakthroughs or nonexistant infrastructure.

    It is enhanced by it.


  50. 50
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:03 pm)

    Gary:
    I assume you’re not talking about this disappointment:http://jalopnik.com/5445212/honda-cr+z-122-hp-33-mpg-worst-of-all-worlds?skyline=true&s=i  

    I was just repeating exactly what was being said on the brief report, but the CR-Z looks familiar. SHRUG.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  51. 51
    Jim in PA

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim in PA
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:09 pm)

    The math doesn’t add up. If the small and aerodynamic Volt gets 40 miles from a 16 KWH battery, then the heavier, larger, and less aerodynamic Caddy will NOT get 20 miles on an 8 KWH battery (unless they are planning on using more of the battery reserve than they will with the Volt.)


  52. 52
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:09 pm)

    MetrologyFirst:
    This is the question, In a nutshell. To everything we spend so much time talking about.Do we truely think this is the case? Will battery development follow Moore’s law for chip development? Or not? What about battery production and availability?I would love to know what the battery experts say. I have a feeling we may be in for an unfortunate suprise.Given this, I think GM’s approach with the Volt, this Cadillac, and with their other hybrid offerings is correct. Their approach does not rely on future battery capability or breakthroughs or nonexistant infrastructure.
    It is enhanced by it.  

    Well said, but (of course) I’m more optimistic about rapid improvements in battery tech. There certainly are quite a few researchers that are leaving academia to start their own battery tech startups.
    I *do* think that GM’s strategy of relying on “givens” rather than advancements, is very prudent – as long as they are allowing wiggle room in designs that allow them to take advantage of break-throughs.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  53. 53
    Mike-o-Matic

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike-o-Matic
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:12 pm)

    MuddyRoverRob: I’m off to deal with the aftermath of a burst pipe in my basement…  

    Ouch, Rob. I hope that in addition to the wetness, this doesn’t make you MuddyBasementRob, too :-(


  54. 54
    Mike-o-Matic

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike-o-Matic
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:13 pm)

    Noel Park: I predict that this will be the next big seller for GM, rivaling the 2-mode Tahoe and Silverado for sheer massive volume sales.LJGTVWOTR!!  

    That’s cold, baby. Stone cold. (and dead-on right, too).


  55. 55
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:14 pm)

    Jim in PA: The math doesn’t add up. If the small and aerodynamic Volt gets 40 miles from a 16 KWH battery, then the heavier, larger, and less aerodynamic Caddy will NOT get 20 miles on an 8 KWH battery (unless they are planning on using more of the battery reserve than they will with the Volt.)  

    Didn’t the wording suggest that the ICE and battery will, at times, work together? I may have misread it (pre-coffee).
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  56. 56
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:17 pm)

    Mike-o-Matic: Noel Park: I predict that this will be the next big seller for GM, rivaling the 2-mode Tahoe and Silverado for sheer massive volume sales.LJGTVWOTR!!

    That’s cold, baby. Stone cold. (and dead-on right, too).

    But it’s a little like selling pencils for $10,000 each. You don’t have to sell *many*. (g)
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  57. 57
    Jim in PA

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim in PA
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:18 pm)

    Here is an off-topic post. I actually posted it just now under yesterday’s story, but I wanted to repost it here in hopes that someone replies. It involves Bob Lutz’s experience with a 28 mile all-eletric range for the Volt in cold weather….

    ————

    The poor cold weather driving range actually does surprise me. It surprises me because the battery shouldn’t know that it’s cold outside if….

    1.) It was pre-heated during the charge-phase,
    2.) It is exothermic as it discharges, so it creates some heat
    3.) It is sufficiently insulated.

    So it seems to me that if you pull the car out of your garage on a cold day and drive your entire trip (as opposed to letting the car sit idle and cold at the mall for a couple of hours in between), then your battery performance shouldn’t suffer. Can someone clear this up for me?


  58. 58
    Tagamet

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:20 pm)

    Mike-o-Matic:
    Ouch, Rob.I hope that in addition to the wetness, this doesn’t make you MuddyBasementRob, too   

    Amen and good luck! I *do* like the fact the Muddy checked in here before going to fix the pipe! Sound priorities.(g).
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  59. 59
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:23 pm)

    Jim in PA: Here is an off-topic post. I actually posted it just now under yesterday’s story, but I wanted to repost it here in hopes that someone replies. It involves Bob Lutz’s experience with a 28 mile all-eletric range for the Volt in cold weather….————The poor cold weather driving range actually does surprise me.It surprises me because the battery shouldn’t know that it’s cold outside if….1.) It was pre-heated during the charge-phase, 2.) It is exothermic as it discharges, so it creates some heat 3.) It is sufficiently insulated.
    So it seems to me that if you pull the car out of your garage on a cold day and drive your entire trip (as opposed to letting the car sit idle and cold at the mall for a couple of hours in between), then your battery performance shouldn’t suffer. Can someone clear this up for me?  

    Maybe it was parked outside, unplugged all night.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  60. 60
    MuddyRoverRob

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MuddyRoverRob
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:26 pm)

    Mike-o-Matic:
    Ouch, Rob.I hope that in addition to the wetness, this doesn’t make you MuddyBasementRob, too   

    Fortunately our ‘igloo’ has a poured concrete floor, the carpet and a lot of the drywall got soaked though!

    It’s about as good as something like this can be, frozen domestic water pipe… so it’s drippy but clean.


  61. 61
    Jeffhre

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:28 pm)

    deyobr: This vehicle looks nice and will get great acceptance on this site but it will be a total faiure in the market. It will compete against the likes of the S-class, 740iL, Lexus LS 460, and Audi A8. All of those vehicles are rear wheel drive architects running on long wheelbases with massive rear luxury seats and cabins. This vehicle is based on a streached version of the same platform that the Chevy Malibu and Buick Lacross are on.

    Recently spending the most money possible for the most opulently wasteful features as possible was considered the height of luxury. Now people are asking for plain bags instead of designer and high end store bags to take their luxury purchases home. Time and again people are quoted as saying,even my friends who don’t have to are cutting back.

    Now it’s 2010 and post economic crisis marketing time. People are actually trying to live within their means even saving money for the first time in a long time, not just spending every dime. There will be a market for rich people who spend money to actually reduce their use of resources. Some buyers will see features that reduce their overall footprints as an additional measure of luxury.

    The new luxury car checklist may read something like, 350 horsepower – check, leather – check, burled wood dash – check, OLED screen – check. And how do we justify such an extravagent purchase in times like these, oh yeah, plug in electric drive – check, it’s worth it because we’re saving the planet.


  62. 62
    MuddyRoverRob

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MuddyRoverRob
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:29 pm)

    Tagamet:
    Amen and good luck! I *do* like the fact the Muddy checked in here before going to fix the pipe! Sound priorities.(g).
    Be well,
    TagametLet’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS   

    LOL!

    The actual pipe break was a few days ago.
    I’m on the repairs!

    That and it was still dark out and I was still on my coffee drip when I commented!


  63. 63
    Van

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Van
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:30 pm)

    Hi Jim in PA @ 57, the result does not surprise me. So we are operating under a different set of expectations. Real world experience with other electrics consistently shows a mileage between 3 miles per kwh and 4.2 miles per kwh. So in the absence of real world independent evaluations of the Volt, my expectation is it will actually deliver 32 miles in EV mode (4 miles per kwh). Thus Mr. Lutz getting 28, and you know all jet pilots are lead footed, comes as no surprise to me. Actually I was encouraged he did that well. :)


  64. 64
    tom

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    tom
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:32 pm)

    Tagamet: I *do* think that GM’s strategy of relying on “givens” rather than advancements, is very prudent – as long as they are allowing wiggle room in designs that allow them to take advantage of break-throughs.

    That is sort of what I’m assuming GM has designed. An improved battery would need an updated battery management software to go with the new battery, but if designed properly, the rest of the software should be compatible. So incremental improvements in batteries hopefully could be included with each model year. I think this is an important point to keep sales growing instead of in spurts with the release of the next ‘breakthrough’.

    Incremental improvements can be in many areas, production automation, miniaturiaztion, new chemistries etc. Design a batter battery, code up the battery management software, and drop it in the next years model.


  65. 65
    Jeffhre

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:38 pm)

    Van: Thus Mr. Lutz getting 28, and you know all jet pilots are lead footed

    Lead footed with 4″ of snow on the ground… there may also be another explanation.


  66. 66
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:45 pm)

    Tagamet: Jim in PA: Here is an off-topic post. I actually posted it just now under yesterday’s story, but I wanted to repost it here in hopes that someone replies. It involves Bob Lutz’s experience with a 28 mile all-eletric range for the Volt in cold weather….————The poor cold weather driving range actually does surprise me.It surprises me because the battery shouldn’t know that it’s cold outside if….1.) It was pre-heated during the charge-phase, 2.) It is exothermic as it discharges, so it creates some heat 3.) It is sufficiently insulated.
    So it seems to me that if you pull the car out of your garage on a cold day and drive your entire trip (as opposed to letting the car sit idle and cold at the mall for a couple of hours in between), then your battery performance shouldn’t suffer. Can someone clear this up for me?

    I also posted some other guesses in yesterday’s thread. I didn’t know if you read that post or not.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  67. 67
    joe obrien

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    joe obrien
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:47 pm)

    Honda had a 75 mpg hybrid?? what one is that?

    Tagamet: Honda had a 75 mpg hybrid


  68. 68
    Noel Park

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:47 pm)

    Tagamet: But it’s a little like selling pencils for $10,000 each. You don’t have to sell *many*. (g)

    #56

    That depends on how many “executives” and “Vice Chairmen” you have on the payroll with 7 figure compensation packages.


  69. 69
    Noel Park

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:49 pm)

    Exp_EngTech: GM,

    Please focus all your remaining resources on bringing electric vehicles to the masses. Not high end vehicles for the “well to do”.

    A VOLTec powered mini van and a commuter BEV would get the average car consumers attention.

    #7

    I agree. they will never sell enough of these to come anywhere near carrying the overhead, IMHO. +1.


  70. 70
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:53 pm)

    Noel Park:
    #56That depends on how many “executives” and “Vice Chairmen” you have on the payroll with 7 figure compensation packages.  

    Since they were given govt funds, that number will be zero. No?
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  71. 71
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:54 pm)

    joe obrien: Honda had a 75 mpg hybrid?? what one is that?

    Tagamet: Honda had a 75 mpg hybrid

    It may have been the CR-z. It was just a short summary, so the models flew by.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  72. 72
    Murray

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Murray
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:55 pm)

    Pretty cool that the 2-mode moves from the Vue to the Cadillac…although it certainly pushes it right on outta my pricing wheelhouse…

    Nice looking concept — hmmm… I remember saying that somewhere before ?


  73. 73
    Jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (12:56 pm)

    tom: I think this is no different than Moore’s law for computer chips over the last 30 years. Maybe it will be every 12 months, maybe every 18 months, maybe every 24 months, but very frequently GM will be incorporating the latest battery designs and the improvements will be significant.

    Batteries have been improving by 4 to 6% a year according to some folks associated with Tesla.


  74. 74
    RB

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    RB
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (1:01 pm)

    34 CorvetteGuy: I’m thinking of making a move across the street. Tough decision. I’ve been a Chevy guy for years.  

    Sounds exciting — hope any change is for the best.
    Keep in mind that you still can be a Volt fan.


  75. 75
    DonC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (1:26 pm)

    Jim in PA: Can someone clear this up for me?

    The limited range isn’t so much about the battery as it is everything else. As the temperature gets colder all the moving parts in the car get a bit “stickier”. This means you have more what we might call drive train losses. Plus the same thing happens with the tires — the tire/road interface gets “stickier”. Finally, cold air is considerably more dense than warmer air, which means drag is significantly increased (the drag equation has a variable for this).

    So in cold weather you end up losing more energy to heating the parts of the car, the road, and the air more. All of which means you have less energy to propel the car to where you want to go. FWIW the same thing happens with a standard ICE vehicle. An EV isn’t really any different in this regard.

    Note that GM never released the EV-1 in a cold weather state. So the Volt is already ahead of the game. But the range will be less regardless of how well the battery is conditioned.


  76. 76
    Neil

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Neil
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (1:30 pm)

    RB: Neil

    I see your point regarding doing one thing and one thing well. I suppose I’m swayed greatly by my profession in the software industry. The ecosystem does well because there are a lot of players with different technologies. When one technology rules there tends to be less innovation and more fragility ironically (see Microsoft).

    One aspect of that is attracting talent. Certainly there are people who do one thing and one thing superbly. But it’s been my experience that the top talent tends to float from technology to technology because they want to keep trying something new and innovative. Having more than one technology roadmap creates an environment where more talent can be attracted and retained. Never guaranteed, though.

    Perhaps the success point for GM will be in working on a small subset of technologies but not all or one.


  77. 77
    Loboc

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Loboc
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (1:33 pm)

    Jim in PA: if you pull the car out of your garage on a cold day and drive your entire trip …, then your battery performance shouldn’t suffer. Can someone clear this up for me?

    I am thinking he actually wanted heat (heated seats and warm air) as well. Heat is no longer ‘free’ when the ICE isn’t running. Also, as someone else already mentioned, Lutz is an ex-pilot. They don’t exactly go slow.

    I am thinking that in my mild to hot area (north Texas), the AER would be 40 or more during my normal commute cycle. We shall see. (That snowstorm was last week’s news. It’s over 50 here now.)

    I certainly hope that some rental companies will get Volts in 2011 model year. I’d like to rent one for a week to see what’s up.


  78. 78
    hayley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    hayley
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (1:44 pm)

    This is a great development. A few years back, I remember having conversations with friends discussing our future luxury cars (haha), we would say “BMW, Lexus, Mercedes…. Cadillac is nice but no way I’d really buy one because those are mostly just monstrous V8 gas guzzlers…” Hopefully this is the beginning of a change in public perception for the Cadillac brand…


  79. 79
    DonC

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (1:46 pm)

    Noel Park: I predict that this will be the next big seller for GM, rivaling the 2-mode Tahoe and Silverado for sheer massive volume sales.

    There aren’t that many buyers for such expensive cars, so you’re right that GM won’t sell these by the boatload. I also suspect that the hybrid drive will be an option not found on the base car.

    This does strike me as being different than the Tahoe and Silverado. Seems to me the problem with those vehicles is that, to begin with, truck guys aren’t that interested in tech. Big engines maybe but not tech. Plus you have to move the needle more if you are going to charge a hefty premium. IOW you’ll get less resistance charging a $15K premium to go from 22 MPG to 35 MPG than to charge $7k and go from 18 MPG to 22 MPG. From a strict fuel saving point of view the latter may be more cost effective, but it doesn’t strike people that way, which is a lesson that GM learned the hard way with all the mild hybrid variations, none of which sold at all.

    Just as a reference point, Mercedes is bringing out a S class sedan using a plug-in parallel hybrid setup in 2013.


  80. 80
    carcus1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    carcus1
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (1:57 pm)

    Nothing says electric car for the common man quite like “Cadillac Platinum”.

    This (obviously) is all “halo”, no volume.

    Contrast GM’s electrification approach vs. Toyota:
    http://www.autospies.com/news/2010-DETROIT-AUTO-SHOW-Toyota-Has-Something-Electric-Up-Its-Sleeve-50994/


  81. 81
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (1:58 pm)

    Dave K.: XTS Platinum or the Converj? Which do you choose to own?

    #5

    Neither, thank you very much.


  82. 82
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (2:00 pm)

    Dave K.: Although a nice car, may sell in small numbers.

    #5

    My thought exactly.


  83. 83
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (2:06 pm)

    Tagamet: Since they were given govt funds, that number will be zero. No?

    #70

    I don’t think so. Do you think that Mr. Lutz is working for $500K? I’m sure that we saw a report on how they had circumvented the salary cap for the Microsoft guy they hired as CFO. I heard Mr. Lutz on the radio this AM talking about the IPO. Don’t worry, that’s when all of these guys will get theirs.

    I’m just saying that cars like these are so nichey (is that a word?) that they make a miniscule contribution the the massive fixed costs of an enterprise the size of GM.


  84. 84
    Loboc

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Loboc
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (2:14 pm)

    Neil: I suppose I’m swayed greatly by my profession in the software industry. The ecosystem does well because there are a lot of players with different technologies. When one technology rules there tends to be less innovation and more fragility ironically

    Ditto that. The more tools you have in your bag-o-tricks, the better you are able to bang in the various configurations of nails. When you come across a different fastener, a hammer (no matter what size) may not work. Being stuck in one technology for too long (like ICE vehicles for 100 years) makes it very difficult to think of some other/better way.

    Personal transportation itself is very last-century. There are better and faster ways to get bodies to their destination and to accomplish work. We need to embrace more public transportation, living closer to the job, and working remotely as well.

    Saving the planet is not all about modifying/keeping an existing paradigm, it’s about going somewhere else for answers. Robotics and communications, for example, may make travel more a virtual than physical thing.

    For now, build me something that gets me there without using gasoline or polluting my air. Oh yeah, a VOLT!


  85. 85
    carcus1

    -4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    carcus1
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (2:15 pm)

    GM’s $40,000 demarcation?

    Does GM have anything with a battery** in it’s current lineup that costs less than $40,000?

    Does GM have anything with a battery** as a concept that looks like it’s going to cost less than $40,000?

    **BEV/PHEV/Hybrid


  86. 86
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (2:21 pm)

    carcus1: Nothing says electric car for the common man quite like “Cadillac Platinum”.
    This (obviously) is all “halo”, no volume.Contrast GM’s electrification approach vs. Toyota:
    http://www.autospies.com/news/2010-DETROIT-AUTO-SHOW-Toyota-Has-Something-Electric-Up-Its-Sleeve-50994/  

    Looks like Toyota has a lot of different options they are working on. Most EXCELLENT! I hope that their success continues.
    Plenty of room in the market for multiple solutions.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  87. 87
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (2:26 pm)

    Noel Park:
    #70I don’t think so.Do you think that Mr. Lutz is working for $500K?I’m sure that we saw a report on how they had circumvented the salary cap for the Microsoft guy they hired as CFO.I heard Mr. Lutz on the radio this AM talking about the IPO.Don’t worry, that’s when all of these guys will get theirs.I’m just saying that cars like these are so nichey (is that a word?) that they make a miniscule contribution the the massive fixed costs of an enterprise the size of GM.  

    Time will tell. We’ll have to see what the Pay Czar does (speaking of massive fixed cost enterprises – the govt qualifies).
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    /My “paste” function just died.


  88. 88
    Herm

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Herm
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (2:28 pm)

    carcus1: Nothing says electric car for the common man quite like “Cadillac Platinum”.
    This (obviously) is all “halo”, no volume.

    Its a Cadillac, it should not be for the common man.


  89. 89
    MuddyRoverRob

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MuddyRoverRob
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (2:47 pm)

    carcus1: Nothing says electric car for the common man quite like “Cadillac Platinum”.
    This (obviously) is all “halo”, no volume.Contrast GM’s electrification approach vs. Toyota:
    http://www.autospies.com/news/2010-DETROIT-AUTO-SHOW-Toyota-Has-Something-Electric-Up-Its-Sleeve-50994/  

    Yup, Toyota see’s it exactly the same way…

    Witness the HS, LXh, GSh and LSh Hybrids… their upmarket Prii.

    It’s just a matter of what order they are presented.

    The low priced GM is coming, just not announced yet.


  90. 90
    Speedy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Speedy
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (2:49 pm)

    The 2nd Generation two mode hybrid system which this is, is cheaper and smaller then the 1st gen two mode.


  91. 91
    carcus1

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    carcus1
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (2:55 pm)

    MuddyRoverRob: The low priced GM is coming, just not announced yet.  

    Well they better hurry up.

    Ford just announced plans for a 2012 hybrid and plug-in hybrid based off their C platform. ( Not to mention that hybrid transaxle and battery assembly are coming in house.)

    /I’d post a press release but someone seems to think that link is “immoderate”.


  92. 92
    Speedy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Speedy
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (3:09 pm)

    Delta II Platforum could have 2nd Gen two mode Hybrid or Voltec System put onto it. I don’t know witch one gm is going too use first.


  93. 93
    EVO

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    EVO
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (3:33 pm)

    I can haz plug and AWD?
    Cat-MaineCoon-Cookie.png

    Good thing I’m not in GM marketing.


  94. 94
    ziv

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ziv
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (4:04 pm)

    I have seen a lot of posts about the coming Lithium shortage, or that Evo is going to hold us hostage with his Lithium reserve potential, so Western Lithium’s last press release came as a pleasant surprise.
    How about we import our Lithium from… Nevada.
    But the fact that Chevron is taking a lead role in this may put some off their feed. LOL
    http://www.westernlithium.com/news-items/4533
    American built EREV’s, fueled by American power companies, using batteries built using American material. I like the sound of that!


  95. 95
    Scooter McClutzky

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Scooter McClutzky
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (4:21 pm)

    It about dang time. They need to stop taking more than three years to churn out these new models.

    Two years from concept to production is MORE than enough in today’s world of supercomputers and Android devices.

    Now get back to work you GM slackers !


  96. 96
    tom

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    tom
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (4:22 pm)

    Loboc: Saving the planet is not all about modifying/keeping an existing paradigm, it’s about going somewhere else for answers. Robotics and communications, for example, may make travel more a virtual than physical thing.

    I see it as exactly the opposite. The communications revolution made it easier to communicate. I expect the auto electrification revolution will eventually make it easier to travel (especially with planes getting blown up by those pesky terrorists).

    Maybe in 10 years they’ll have something akin to what EESTOR is working on, whether by chem batteries of capictors or whatever.

    But wouldn’t it be nice if 500 mile batteries with super fast charge on the highways, and electricity is even cheaper than it is now because of spreading out the charging demand.

    Once tech is unleashed who knows how fast it would go.

    I’d like to drive from Ohio to Yellowstone 2000 miles and have it cost me about 800 kwh at 4 cents or about $32 in fuel costs.

    I expect this technology will lead to more travel not less, but it will take 10 years.


  97. 97
    mitch

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    mitch
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (4:25 pm)

    tom: I see it as exactly the opposite. The communications revolution made it easier to communicate. I expect the auto electrification revolution will eventually make it easier to travel (especially with planes getting blown up by those pesky terrorists).Maybe in 10 years they’ll have something akin to what EESTOR is working on, whether by chem batteries of capictors or whatever.But wouldn’t it be nice if 500 mile batteries with super fast charge on the highways, and electricity is even cheaper than it is now because of spreading out the charging demand.Once tech is unleashed who knows how fast it would go.I’d like to drive from Ohio to Yellowstone 2000 miles and have it cost me about 800 kwh at 4 cents or about $32 in fuel costs. I expect this technology will lead to more travel not less, but it will take 10 years.  (Quote)

    How about as roads are repaved an induction method is installed say every 25 miles that charges your vehicle as you drive over it?


  98. 98
    Blind Guy

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Blind Guy
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (4:30 pm)

    # 94 ZIV I couldn’t agree more! The electrification of vehicles can have a snowball effect in a positive way.


  99. 99
    CorvetteGuy

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (4:36 pm)

    Schmeltz: Hi CorvetteGuy:
    In that last comment, did you mean you would be moving to a Cadillac dealership? Would such a move then necessitate a name change here to “CadillacGuy?”

    I tell ya’ – - – Cadillac is definitely on a roll. I read about them in all of the car mags and all of the reviews are great… I see their cars at the dealership across from us, and yeah… It’s tempting.

    But “CadillacGuy” ? Wasn’t their a movie with that title already? :)


  100. 100
    CaptJackSparrow

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (4:52 pm)

    Late to the party……again….

    Nice car. What’s the price? Anything close to $55,000.00 is Fiskar / Tesla Model S territory.


  101. 101
    William

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    William
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (4:57 pm)

    Hey everyone!

    I created a Facebook group about the Cadillac XTS. Please join if you’re interested:

    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=278176756479&ref=mf

    This is a phenomenal vehicle! GM continues to amaze and surprise us as the days, weeks and months keep going forward.

    They need to build this vehicle “as-is.”

    You see, there’s still a lot of people (including myself) who prefer the larger cars and GM is proving that we don’t necessarily have to sacrifice vehicle size and power in order to gain efficiency.

    I remember when a GM executive, referring to R&D, said, “We’ve got vehicles that will blow you away!” And they were right…..


  102. 102
    CaptJackSparrow

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (5:03 pm)

    carcus1: GM’s $40,000 demarcation?

    Does GM have anything with a battery** in it’s current lineup that costs less than $40,000?

    Does GM have anything with a battery** as a concept that looks like it’s going to cost less than $40,000?

    **BEV/PHEV/Hybrid

    Didn’t they say there was gonna be a BEV version of the Volt? Wasn’t it in the last few recent threads? I can’t remember, but I think they will have a BEV version. No specifics and definately no price.

    I highly doubt it will be less than $40,000.00, that’s jus a skunk pipe dream.

    /puff, puff, GIVE (to carcus1)


  103. 103
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (5:06 pm)

    ziv: I have seen a lot of posts about the coming Lithium shortage, or that Evo is going to hold us hostage with his Lithium reserve potential, so Western Lithium’s last press release came as a pleasant surprise.
    How about we import our Lithium from… Nevada.
    But the fact that Chevron is taking a lead role in this may put some off their feed. LOL
    http://www.westernlithium.com/news-items/4533
    American built EREV’s, fueled by American power companies, using batteries built using American material. I like the sound of that!  

    It may well work out, but the fine print at the end was a bit unsettling. That, and still needing an ok from the Bureau of Land Management to allow the fertilizer processing/sale. Looks similar to the resistance to drilling for our own oil. I certainly hope it works out.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  104. 104
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (5:16 pm)

    EVO: I can haz plug and AWD?
    Good thing I’m not in GM marketing.  

    Cute kitty!

    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  105. 105
    tom

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    tom
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (5:18 pm)

    mitch: How about as roads are repaved an induction method is installed say every 25 miles that charges your vehicle as you drive over it?

    I am intrigued by this tech you mention. Especially as a solution for 18 wheelers.

    In fact long before these current tech were thought of I always thought back in the seventies that highways and mainroads should have a 3rd rail or an over head hot wire, and cars/trucks should have batteries enough to get them in and out of their developments/driveways.

    I’ve always thought electric was the way to go. But I don’t see enough government planning to do our highway system as you suggest, so I think trucks will need to be a combination of CNG and diesel for now and then see where tech takes us in 15 years. But for now we need to work towards all cars being at least 12 miles AER, and expand that minimum AER over time.

    I do suspect the 12 aer prius will do exceptionally well, that why I think the Volt needs a 15-20 mile AER to compete with the prius.


  106. 106
    Blind Guy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Blind Guy
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (5:19 pm)

    #98 CORVETTE GUY I’m not sure, but I think the movie was Cadillac Man with Robin Williams.


  107. 107
    Noel Park

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (5:52 pm)

    Blind Guy: #98 CORVETTE GUY I’m not sure, but I think the movie was Cadillac Man with Robin Williams.

    #105

    Yup. EXTREMELY funny, as I remember it. What else, with Robin Williams playing a car salesman? CorvetteGuy = Robin Williams? Works for me!! Actually, it’s a pretty nice compliment, IMHO. Robin Williams is one of my favorite people.

    Sorry to sound so negative today. I started the day listening to an NPR report on the Detroit Auto Show. They interviewed a woman from Edmunds, who said that the Cruze seemed quite good technically, but that the styling was too timid, and not likely to be a hugely successful Toyota/Honda fighter. She also had a few choice words about the public’s lingering “perceptions” of GM quality, and its intense dislike of the bailouts.

    As if this wasn’t discouraging enough, it was followed by an interview with none other than Bob Lutz, crowing about how he had turned around GM’s product line, and how successful the IPO was going to be as soon as they get the company profitable and its cash flow positive. Fantasy world.

    Beneath the surface I’m a great GM supporter and car owner. But I do get pretty discouraged some times. This whole Cadillac deal is just one more distraction from the existential issue of figuring out how to compete successfully against Toyota/Honda/Hyundai/et al, IMHO. As such, I see it as extremely dangerous. So sorry, but it’s a bit of a tough day for my morale.


  108. 108
    Blind Guy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Blind Guy
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (5:53 pm)

    I am intrigued by the MRC system, magnetic ride controler. It’s sounds like it might be similar to the suspention system Dr. Amar Bose was working on a few years ago. If it is anything like that was, the ride will be incredable! The high cost was a factor in using it, however with this automobile it could definately be another big selling point.


  109. 109
    Mike-o-Matic

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike-o-Matic
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (6:10 pm)

    EVO: I can haz plug and AWD?

    It was only a matter of time before LOLCats showed up here. Unless you count Jack, in which case they arrived long ago.


  110. 110
    Stas Peterson

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Stas Peterson
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (6:18 pm)

    If the Cadillac XTs is indeed a PHEV20, it should be capable of meeting half an average days commute on AER. That would imply a city mpge of perhaps triple digits or very near, and a highway mileage of 45+ mpge. Combined it might be near 60 mpge.

    This is not the drivetrain that was to be released in the Vue or still-born Buick RendezVUE. It is more advanced.

    The ICE has been upgraded with GDI. The dual-mode is conspicuously less powerful than the large, heavy, first generation ones, meant for the three plus ton, trucks and SUVs and to be used in the Vue.

    This appears to be a smaller, lighter, second generation version meant for applications in cars and long promised, judging by the limited power of the electric motors. That second generation was promised by GM, and GM just recently shut down the engineering development group.

    Which I interpret as meaning they have completed the effort for the Second generation, both FWD and RWD, versions as they originally promised to do.

    This XTS has Active suspension, and plenty of power, in addition to the low range torque offered from the electric motors working with the Cadillac originally introduced, High Feature, V6. That engine family is so good that it is now being shared with other GM divisions.

    This XTS has every other technology imaginable, from active cruise control, blind spot avoidance, lane change warning, ECS, and Traction control, backup, and parking assistance, multiple airbags, Haldane electronic XWD, the best four wheel drive system available; and to even LED headlights that turn with the tires on curvy roads.

    In addition, this car has been configured to have Wifi connection to the outside world for both business and pleasure. Not only pickup truck workers, run their office from their vehicle. I’m glad that Cadillac recognizes this.

    I think this is the very model of the premier car of the second decade of the 21st century. I think it makes the 1980s offerings of the boutique German luxury automakers , BMW and Daimler, seem quaint and as obsolescent as a Packard or a Duesenberg of another era.

    Only mighty VW with its deep pocket resources, offers an alternative, in the Audi A8. The XTS, like the A8, can probably accelerate 0-60 in under 6 seconds, and then lose to the A8; but the XTS can still probably return around 60 mpge. Cadillac is bidding to return to the status as the ‘Standard of the World’.

    Wow! Just Wow!


  111. 111
    Speedy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Speedy
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (6:23 pm)

    Stas Peterson: If the Caddillac XTs is indeed a PHEV20, it should be capable of meeting half an average days commute on AER. That would imply a city mpge of behaps triple digits or very near, and a highway mileage of 45+ mpge. Combined it might be near 60 mpge.This is not the drivetrain that was to be released in the Vue or still-born Buick RendezVUE. It is more advanced. The ICE has been upgraded with GDI. The dual-mode is conspicuously less powerful than the large, heavy, first generation ones, meant for the three plus ton, trucks and SUVs and to be used in the Vue. This appears to be a smaller, lighter, second generation version meant for applications in cars and long promised, judging by the limited power of the electric motors. That second generation was promised by GM, and GM just recently shut down the engineering development group. Which I interpret as meaning they have completed the effort for the Second generation, both FWD and RWD, versions as they originally promised to do. This XTS has Active suspension, and plenty of power, in addition to the low range torque offered from the electric motors working with the Cadillac originally introduced, High Feature, V6. That engine family is so good that it is now being shared with other GM divisions. This XTS has every other technology imagineable, from active cruise control, blind spot avoidance, lane change warning, ECS, and Traction control, backup, and parking assistance, multiple airbags, Haldane electronic XWD, the best four wheel drive system available; and to even LED headlights that turn with the tires on curvy roads. In addition, this car has been configured to have Wifi connection to the outside world for both business and pleasure. Not only pickup truck workers, run their office from their vehicle. I’m glad that Cadillac recognizes this. I think this is the very model of the premier car of the second decade of the 21st century. I think it makes the 1980s offerings of the boutique German luxury automakers , BMW and Daimler, seem quaint and as obsolescent as a Packard or a Duesenberg of another era.Only mighty VW with its deep pocket resources, offers an alternative, in the Audi A8. The XTS, like the A8, can probaly accelerate 0-60 in under 6 seconds, and then lose to the A8; but the XTS can still probably return around 60 mpge. Cadillac is bdding to return to the status as the ‘Standard of the World’. Wow! Just Wow!  (Quote)

    This is the 2nd generation Two mode Hybrid System.


  112. 112
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (6:23 pm)

    Noel Park: Beneath the surface I’m a great GM supporter and car owner. But I do get pretty discouraged some times. This whole Cadillac deal is just one more distraction from the existential issue of figuring out how to compete successfully against Toyota/Honda/Hyundai/et al, IMHO. As such, I see it as extremely dangerous. So sorry, but it’s a bit of a tough day for my morale.

    Have faith, Noel. The Volt is just the first step in GM’s journey to becoming fiscally sound. Once we get *it’s* wheels on the road, things will start looking rosier. Contrary to what “some” here would have us all believing, there is room in the market for several solutions to the electrification of transportation. I believe *fervently* that the Volt’s strengths will carve out a major share of the market.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  113. 113
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (6:25 pm)

    Mike-o-Matic:
    It was only a matter of time before LOLCats showed up here.Unless you count Jack, in which case they arrived long ago.  

    And I’ve shown *such* restraint on not posting tons of the boys’ pictures (lol). Smiles are (almost) always therapeutic.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  114. 114
    Retarded Timing

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Retarded Timing
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (6:27 pm)

    I can buy SIX(6) Nissan LEAFs for the kind of jack it gonna take to sit behind the wheelie of the XTS.

    I am NOT a Bank Executive with a swollen wallet after my recent BIG FAT BONUS, so you won’t see me in this anytime soon.

    I would drop the “Platinum” name and just call it the Goldman Sachs Edition


  115. 115
    Unni

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Unni
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (6:43 pm)

    40 k volt and 40k XTS – i will choose and XTS for sure :-)

    My drive every day to office is only 15 miles one way and another 8+ hrs in office, – i they give charging option, i am happy :-)

    With volt i may go to gas station very very rarely. But as of now Its looks GMC Granite is capturing my attention more ( looks like Vibe is getting back through Granite )


  116. 116
    JohnK

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JohnK
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:07 pm)

    Jim in PA: So it seems to me that if you pull the car out of your garage on a cold day and drive your entire trip (as opposed to letting the car sit idle and cold at the mall for a couple of hours in between), then your battery performance shouldn’t suffer. Can someone clear this up for me?

    I can be corrected, but I believe that Bob Lutz lives in an appartment in downtown Detroit. There may not be a covered garage.


  117. 117
    jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:13 pm)

    Noel Park: I’m just saying that cars like these are so nichey (is that a word?) that they make a miniscule contribution the the massive fixed costs of an enterprise the size of GM.

    They help a great deal in squeezing a higher margin out of those fixed costs.


  118. 118
    Stas Peterson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Stas Peterson
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:20 pm)

    Bankruptcy made it almost impossible for GM to lose money. Even in this depressed month of the December 2009 sales, I think GM was highly profitable. But it may have had some wrap losses to finish up the year of Bankruptcy.

    They almost have a license to print money and profits. A heavy fixed cost business makes lots of money when it is leveraged by running its plants at full tilt. GM is doing exactly that right now.


  119. 119
    JohnK

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JohnK
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:34 pm)

    Re: Moore’s Law – IMO apples and oranges.
    1) We don’t WANT Moore’s law to apply. If I have invested $12,000 in a battery that is supposed to last 10 years I don’t want that battery to be compared to a new battery that costs $6,000 in 5 years.
    2) Moore’s law is primarily about hardware that is very leveraged by intellectual property (software and the ability to run it). These batteries are to a large extent raw material related.
    3) Gen 2 batteries for the Volt are supposed to be solid electrolyte as opposed to gel or liquid based. This gives incremental advantages.
    4) If battery progress and/or breakthroughs occur, the Volt technology tends to shield us in that by protecting the battery (environmental controls and duty cycle management) it will last long enough that it protects the investment. But NOT if a new battery comes out every two years that costs 40% less. The Volt is not consumer electronics.


  120. 120
    JohnK

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JohnK
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:39 pm)

    I feel reasonably safe buying a Volt. I will gladly keep my Volt for 10 years. But a LOT of people would like to trade in after 3 or 4 years and they NEED residual value. It makes no difference if you pay cash or lease. You cannot repeal the laws of nature (financial nature in this case).


  121. 121
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:50 pm)

    Tagamet: Have faith, Noel. The Volt is just the first step in GM’s journey to becoming fiscally sound. Once we get *it’s* wheels on the road, things will start looking rosier. Contrary to what “some” here would have us all believing, there is room in the market for several solutions to the electrification of transportation. I believe *fervently* that the Volt’s strengths will carve out a major share of the market.

    jeffhre: They help a great deal in squeezing a higher margin out of those fixed costs.

    Stas Peterson: Bankruptcy made it almost impossible for GM to lose money. Even in this depressed month of the December 2009 sales, I think GM was highly profitable. But it may have had some wrap losses to finish up the year of Bankruptcy.

    They almost have a license to print money and profits. A heavy fixed cost business makes lots of money when it is leveraged by running its plants at full tilt. GM is doing exactly that right now.

    Thanks to all for your positive takes on this. I find your comments very encouraging. As a wise friend of ours is so fond of saying, “From your lips to God’s ears.”


  122. 122
    carcus1

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    carcus1
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:52 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow: Didn’t they say there was gonna be a BEV version of the Volt? Wasn’t it in the last few recent threads? I can’t remember, but I think they will have a BEV version. No specifics and definately no price.
    I highly doubt it will be less than $40,000.00, that’s jus a skunk pipe dream.
    /puff, puff, GIVE (to carcus1)  

    Ha.

    Yeah I commented on that one yesterday and hit a new personal best (-35, woot!)

    So to continue on, . . the price and the weight on a BEV are directly related — the efficiency inversely so. Pretty freakin’ obvious, but I guess some people don’t want to hear it.

    The good news is we’re starting to see some examples of lightweight ICE cars coming from the major manufacturers. The piston version of the IQ is under 2,000 lbs, the piston Fiesta is just over at about 2,200.

    I think the first round of successful (i.e. volume sales) BEV’s will be characterized by the following:

    1. 2+ seating, (two comfortably up front, 1 or 2 more can be crammed in the back)
    2. 20 kwh or less battery
    3. real world range of 80 + mi. (advertised nominal will probably be about 120 mi.)
    4. price (including battery) under $25,000
    5. curb weight: under 2,500#

    We’re not that far away from seeing this type of car, . . . 2012, 13,14 . . . somewhere in there (imo).
    But 2 thru 4 aren’t going to happen without #5.

    The real problem here for the BEV is that the hybrid/efficient ICE version of the same car may very well be getting 60+ mpg and cost a few thousand less on initial purchase. Even at $4.00+ gas I’m afraid the majority of buyers may still opt for the petro version. That decision will largely be hinged on battery life, something we just won’t have solid data on until the cars have been out for at least 4 or 5 years.

    /puff,puff . . . .cough . . . give back to CJS


  123. 123
    jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:53 pm)

    tom: I’ve always thought electric was the way to go. But I don’t see enough government planning to do our highway system as you suggest

    A few folks are planning though ( http://www.solarroadways.com/main.html )


  124. 124
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:57 pm)

    JohnK: The Volt is not consumer electronics.

    Seems to me that that is exactly what the Volt is. I understand that you would rather not see leaps in progress, to protect the investment, but the current pace of research makes spurts probable. JMO. We’ll see. Given the investment in buying a Volt, I’ll be hanging onto mine for a very long time (God willing).
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  125. 125
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (7:59 pm)

    Noel Park: Thanks to all for your positive takes on this. I find your comments very encouraging.

    Keep smiling!
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  126. 126
    Dan Petit

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dan Petit
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:16 pm)

    Jim in PA: Here is an off-topic post. I actually posted it just now under yesterday’s story, but I wanted to repost it here in hopes that someone replies. It involves Bob Lutz’s experience with a 28 mile all-eletric range for the Volt in cold weather….————The poor cold weather driving range actually does surprise me.It surprises me because the battery shouldn’t know that it’s cold outside if….1.) It was pre-heated during the charge-phase, 2.) It is exothermic as it discharges, so it creates some heat 3.) It is sufficiently insulated.
    So it seems to me that if you pull the car out of your garage on a cold day and drive your entire trip (as opposed to letting the car sit idle and cold at the mall for a couple of hours in between), then your battery performance shouldn’t suffer. Can someone clear this up for me?  

    Hey Jim in PA.
    Yes,
    Bob has a jet plane. A 1970 Harrier Jump Jet if I understand correctly. Bob might very well have a heavier (lead) foot than most conservative drivers. But if Bob says 28 electric miles a charge in the cold, he might have been doing slightly higher acceleration “G’s” (lol) than most people, and, if you utilize Bob’s commentary as a benchmark, then, if you are getting less than 28 miles a charge, either OnStar will call you for an adjustment, or, you are driving really waaaaaaaay more “lead footed” than even Bob himself.
    What do you think?

    (This site is soooo much fun!)


  127. 127
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:18 pm)

    MuddyRoverRob: The low priced GM is coming, just not announced yet.

    #89

    Man I hope so.


  128. 128
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:22 pm)

    carcus1: Yeah I commented on that one yesterday and hit a new personal best (-35, woot!)

    #120

    I think that you were at -43 when I gave you a +, so you must have slipped back quite a bit, aka found a few friends, LOL.


  129. 129
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:24 pm)

    carcus1: So to continue on, . . the price and the weight on a BEV are directly related — the efficiency inversely so. Pretty freakin’ obvious, but I guess some people don’t want to hear it.

    #120

    You got that right. Or a PHEV, or an ICE, IMHO. I believe that Colin Chapman would back you up on that.


  130. 130
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:28 pm)

    Tagamet: Seems to me that that is exactly what the Volt is. I understand that you would rather not see leaps in progress, to protect the investment, but the current pace of research makes spurts probable. JMO.

    #122

    Right! Bring it on says I. Kind of like standing in line all night to buy an iphone for $300, LOL. Early adopters get their reward in another life, I guess. Or just from the personal satisfaction of doing their bit to change the world for the better in this case. Which is just another way of saying what you always say, that it’s about a lot more than just the money. +1


  131. 131
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:29 pm)

    Tagamet: Keep smiling!

    #123

    Well you got me started, LOL. Sorry. But thanks. +1


  132. 132
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:31 pm)

    Stas Peterson: Cadillac is bidding to return to the status as the ‘Standard of the World’.

    #109

    God send that it shall be true. +1.


  133. 133
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:34 pm)

    Just trying something:
    Hopefully, Jack and his brother Toby (the twins)
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/Tagamet/VOLTNATION/Bros_bed_0723.jpg

    RATS! Just the link showed up.
    Oh well, OT anyway (g).
    Be well,
    Tagamet


  134. 134
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:44 pm)

    Second try?
    Bros_bed_0723.jpg

    Cool!
    Be well,
    Tagamet


  135. 135
    EVO

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    EVO
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:45 pm)

    Tagamet:
    Cute kitty!Be well,
    TagametLet’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS   

    Ya, I simply used a time machine on your avatar, with the enlarge feature engaged, you know, the sort of procedure that GM engineers do whenever Mr. Lutz says things that start with “It’s simple, you just …”

    BTW, I like how GM’s thinking straight, as this photo shows the connection to both Voltec and the application of dual mode as one possible production solution to the original concept to what is now the Cadlillac XTS Patinum:

    SOO_213Bt_Neenah_WI_7-1966_Ted_Ellis.jpg

    (hint: V16 electric drive, all that’s missing from the puzzle is inexpensive, clean DIESEL).


  136. 136
    carcus1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    carcus1
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:45 pm)

    Noel Park: You got that right. Or a PHEV, or an ICE, IMHO. I believe that Colin Chapman would back you up on that.  

    I must confess, I didn’t know who Colin Chapman was. I’m going to “youtube U”. for a quick study. Seems like a pretty cool dude ….. live fast, die young and all.

    The Secret Life of Colin Chapman
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIQHzTbMgJ0


  137. 137
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:50 pm)

    EVO:
    Ya, I simply used a time machine on your avatar, with the enlarge feature engaged, you know, the sort of procedure that GM engineers do whenever Mr. Lutz says things that start with “It’s simple, you just …”BTW, I like how GM’s thinking straight, as this photo shows the connection to both Voltec and the application of dual mode as one possible production solution to the original concept to what is nowthe Cadlillac XTS Patinum:(hint: V16electric drive, all that’s missing from the puzzle is inexpensive, clean DIESEL).  

    LOL, works for me! Scroll up a few to see a pic of Jack and his twin Bro Toby.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  138. 138
    Dan Petit

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dan Petit
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (8:55 pm)

    Tagamet:
    LOL, works for me! Scroll up a few to see a pic of Jack and his twin Bro Toby.
    Be well,
    TagametLet’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS   

    Looks like a couple of great little buddies. Don’t you have four cats in all Tag?


  139. 139
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (9:06 pm)

    Dan Petit:
    Looks like a couple of great little buddies. Don’t you have four cats in all Tag?  

    Yep, 4 currently. Levi the Alpha male wildcat (just under me on the food-chain), Bubba the beautiful beta-male and then the twins, Toby and Jack. Bubba, Toby and Jack are brothers. My Dear one and I have had at least one cat for the last 38 years – usually 2 or 3.
    Thanks for asking.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  140. 140
    Dan Petit

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dan Petit
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (9:12 pm)

    Tagamet:
    Yep, 4 currently. Levi the Alpha male wildcat (just under me on the food-chain), Bubba the beautiful beta-male and then the twins, Toby and Jack.Bubba, Toby and Jack are brothers. My Dear one and I have had at least one cat for the last 38 years – usually 2 or 3.
    Thanks for asking.

    My cat, HarryPotter-(he-who-disappears-quickly), is a rescue kitty.

    Hey everyone, please consider carefully all the things necessary for you to consider the adopting/rescue of a shelter kitty, and, make him/her a member of your family. (Be very very patient, as they need lots and lots of TLC and patience for them to adapt to your home and to figure out your visual motions and tone of your statements, because they’ve had a very unpredictable set of previous experiences). HarryPotter-(he-who-disappears-quickly) needed about 8 months to adjust.

    Just a suggestion for consideration in the coming prosperous 2010.

    (D.P.)


  141. 141
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (9:18 pm)

    Noel Park: Tagamet: Keep smiling!

    #123

    Well you got me started, LOL. Sorry. But thanks. +1

    I’ll sleep well tonight then (g).
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  142. 142
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (9:34 pm)

    Dan Petit: Hey everyone, please consider carefully all the things necessary for you to rescue a shelter kitty, and, make him/her a member of your family. Just a suggestion for the coming prosperous 2010.

    Absolutely! We’ve never purchased a cat. Most are SPCA critters, some were literally taken from the side of the road having been hit by cars. One was brain damaged from birth (the vet called us rather than just “put it down”. The owners took him to the vet, the vet called us, and we adopted him.) He was ataxic, except he could “swim” along walls in a carpeted room. Since his eyes worked independent of each other, he couldn’t sit still to eat or drink (and couldn’t “see the surface of the water in his bowl). Food coloring helped that and a hand on his rump as a cue eventually let him learn how to eat from a bowl. He always made it to the litter box but then would fall, so had to be “wiped” a lot! He only lasted 2 years but he was a *really* neat cat!
    Cats are VERY interesting people (g).
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  143. 143
    DonC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (9:40 pm)

    carcus1: Yeah I commented on that one yesterday and hit a new personal best (-35, woot!)

    I followed Noel’s lead and gave you a +1 as well. So I guess I messed things up for you a bit. Couldn’t actually figure out what got everyone so riled. Some people just don’t get the “too much coffee on top of a bad hair day” dynamic. LOL


  144. 144
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (9:56 pm)

    From VoltNation I – Lyle and Bob:

    volt_fxd_sm_102.jpg


  145. 145
    BillR

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    BillR
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:13 pm)

    Here is some breaking news:

    “Cadillac retracts promise to produce Converj”

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/cadillac-retracts-promise-to-produce-converj.html


  146. 146
    LRGVProVolt

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LRGVProVolt
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:20 pm)

    #114 JohnK:
    I can be corrected, but I believe that Bob Lutz lives in an appartment in downtown Detroit.There may not be a covered garage.  

    Be assured that the garage is in the basement of the building!

    Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.


  147. 147
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:29 pm)

    BillR: Here is some breaking news:“Cadillac retracts promise to produce Converj”http://www.leftlanenews.com/cadillac-retracts-promise-to-produce-converj.html  

    Thanks for the link, but the author of that piece sure doesn’t sound like he’s sure of *anything*. Every sentence has a qualifier – maybe, perhaps, etc.
    Certainly, the heads of GM need to get their stories straight. To me it reads like the head of Caddy just didn’t like that Lutz made the comment – that that should have come from *him*. JMO. Lots of politics in big orgs.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  148. 148
    Texas

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Texas
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:33 pm)

    The plug-in Prius concept is a good one but does that conflict with Voltec? If Voltec is so great, why put in a mechanical linkage (probably mechanical in the front, electrical in the rear – 4WD)?

    Now, it’s cool to have a plug-in Cadillac but what about the market for this car? Who buys these Cadillacs? Wealthy, elderly, business men, ego types that don’t really want to be bothered with plugging into the wall every night. Why would they want to do more work for such little reward? Fuel costs for these people is pocket change.

    Does the green cred give them enough perceived value to justify the daily chore? I’m guessing a standard, non-plug-in hybrid would be more their speed. They don’t have to do any extra work (plug-in chore) yet can claim they are green.

    OK, I know GM will need a vehicle that can sit next to the Tesla S so maybe a low-volume model (like the proposed concept) will be good for green cred. However, maintaining a 2-mode program will be very expensive.

    I suggest they use Voltec WITH mechanical assist. This will mean the big Cadillac can use the fully designed Voltec drivetrain and all they have to do is add that huge ICE and a standard mechanical transmission to add to the power of the system. Same front wheel drive mechanical system (done) + Volt-size Voltec drive train to power the rear wheels (done).

    There you go. You get to spread out the Voltec development and use existing and proven technology.

    Kill the 2-mode. It’s confusing for customers and adds another expensive development team. Low volume and high costs are not fun.


  149. 149
    JimCars

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JimCars
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:34 pm)

    This car is gonna be amazing! And its coming out this year: http://www.kaycircle.com/index.php?q=What-is-the-Chevy-Volt-release-date


  150. 150
    LRGVProVolt

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LRGVProVolt
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (10:41 pm)

    #118 JohnK: I feel reasonably safe buying a Volt.I will gladly keep my Volt for 10 years.But a LOT of people would like to trade in after 3 or 4 years and they NEED residual value.It makes no difference if you pay cash or lease.You cannot repeal the laws of nature (financial nature in this case).  

    How many years before a car becomes an antique? The Gen 1 Volt will definitely bring a pretty price when it becomes an antique especially if there aren’t many sold. I really hated to say this but GM selling fewer Volts will be loved by car collectors like Jay Leno!

    Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.

    The Cadilac XTS Platinum Plug-In Hybrid is a gem!


  151. [...] 2010 Detroit Auto Show Update: Cadillac XTS Platinum Hybrid Concept Hello there! If you are new here, you might want to subscribe to the RSS feed for updates on this topic.Powered by WP Greet Box WordPress PluginWho is running GM?  Screw who let the dogs out; who let the designers loose?  I’ve never been much of a modern Cadillac man; but look at that car–and it’s a hybrid.  It’s a big car, complete with a 3.6L V-6 hybrid engine.  According to GM-Volt.com, the XTS Platinum is next-generation Cadillac: [...]


  152. 152
    Mike-o-Matic

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike-o-Matic
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (11:41 pm)

    Tagamet: Just trying something:
    Hopefully, Jack and his brother Toby (the twins)

    Handsome felines there, Tag! You’re lucky Jack has a marking on his nose or you’d have trouble telling them apart.


  153. 153
    DonC

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (11:45 pm)

    carcus1: The good news is we’re starting to see some examples of lightweight ICE cars coming from the major manufacturers. The piston version of the IQ is under 2,000 lbs, the piston Fiesta is just over at about 2,200.

    And the Up!Lite is under 700kg. If all vehicles were put on a diet like that we wouldn’t need to worry about a lot of the expensive drive trains.


  154. 154
    DonC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jan 12th, 2010 (11:49 pm)

    BillR: Here is some breaking news:
    “Cadillac retracts promise to produce Converj”

    Shades of the G8? So who is on first base?


  155. 155
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (12:11 am)

    Mike-o-Matic:
    Handsome felines there, Tag!You’re lucky Jack has a marking on his nose or you’d have trouble telling them apart.  

    LOL, good attention to detail – But TOBY has the spot.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  156. 156
    EVO

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    EVO
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (1:27 am)

    ““We want it to be a true luxury driving experience,” Howell said.” leftlanenews

    You don’t get any more true luxury than the strong, completely smooth, linear acceleration and quiet of electric drive. It’s been historically popular with cosmopolitan doctors and discriminating women for that very reason, among others.

    It does takes some getting used to that modern electric drive, assisted or not, can provide performance launches and torque (see Tesla Roadster Sport) and luxury smoothness and quiet (see M-B ML450 and S500, BMW ActiveHybrid X6, Lexus GS 450h hybrids and others) qualities baked right in. It’s not just for efficiency, you know. You do know you have an elegant solution when it provides you improved performance, luxury and efficiency simultaneously, though.

    It’s now clear that we are at the very beginning of what’s possible with modern electric drive and it can only get better.


  157. 157
    Mike-o-Matic

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike-o-Matic
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (1:28 am)

    Tagamet: TOBY has the spot.

    When one gambles, one often loses. I rolled the dice, and guess what happened. Heh heh.


  158. 158
    Speedy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Speedy
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (1:30 am)

    Voltec 1 and Voltec 2 system’s are design for the smaller platforum application’s, Voltec 3 system which is pure electric will be for larger or smaller application’s. Second generation two mode hybrid system, is lighter , smaller and cheaper then the first one . And I belive the engineering is alread done on it.


  159. 159
    Kurt

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kurt
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (2:13 am)

    This is a great platform for performance and larger vehicles. Still more efficient, truly comparable cost, but can hit mainstream, too. Every little bit helps, and it digs further into the vehicle line-up (what I would call a diversified portfolio).
    Now, if someone would just market a non-electric hybrid already! I’m talking CHEAP efficiency with compressed air storage. You get regen braking with air pumped back into pistons upon acceleration. Same gain as a mild electric hybrid, much less cost, less rare earth elements, good for large vehicles, etc. Ford wins if they hit this jackpot first.


  160. 160
    Speedy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Speedy
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (2:27 am)

    Kurt: This is a great platform for performance and larger vehicles. Still more efficient, truly comparable cost, but can hit mainstream, too. Every little bit helps, and it digs further into the vehicle line-up (what I would call a diversified portfolio).Now, if someone would just market a non-electric hybrid already! I’m talking CHEAP efficiency with compressed air storage. You get regen braking with air pumped back into pistons upon acceleration. Same gain as a mild electric hybrid, much less cost, less rare earth elements, good for large vehicles, etc. Ford wins if they hit this jackpot first.  (Quote)

    Gm as well are working on cheap efficiency, non-electric etc.


  161. 161
    Speedy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Speedy
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (2:57 am)

    Just read that the Chevrolet Spark is getting 47 mpg without a hybrid system.


  162. 162
    harrier1970

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    harrier1970
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (3:36 am)

    bland, ugly and comfortably over $40,000.

    Not to be a Debbie Downer but all the cars this will compete against are already ahead in styling and quality perception with the market that GM is going after. This particular project should never have been greenlighted.

    not a bad hybrid system… a step in the right direction as far as that goes but the Volt is still a better answer.


  163. 163
    Speedy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Speedy
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (4:29 am)

    harrier1970: bland, ugly and comfortably over $40,000.Not to be a Debbie Downer but all the cars this will compete against are already ahead in styling and quality perception with the market that GM is going after. This particular project should never have been greenlighted.not a bad hybrid system… a step in the right direction as far as that goes but the Volt is still a better answer.  (Quote)

    you need put glass on.


  164. 164
    Speedy

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Speedy
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (4:42 am)

    Speedy: you need put glass on.  (Quote)


  165. 165
    Speedy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Speedy
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (4:45 am)

    Gm is working on electic-motors for RWD.


  166. 166
    Rashiid Amul

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Rashiid Amul
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (7:18 am)

    It is a nice looking car.


  167. 167
    deyobr

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    deyobr
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (8:42 am)

    Jeffhre: Recently spending the most money possible for the most opulently wasteful features as possible was considered the height of luxury. Now people are asking for plain bags instead of designer and high end store bags to take their luxury purchases home. Time and again people are quoted as saying,even my friends who don’t have to are cutting back.
    Now it’s 2010 and post economic crisis marketing time. People are actually trying to live within their means even saving money for the first time in a long time, not just spending every dime. There will be a market for rich people who spend money to actually reduce their use of resources. Some buyers will see features that reduce their overall footprints as an additional measure of luxury.
    The new luxury car checklist may read something like, 350 horsepower – check, leather – check, burled wood dash – check, OLED screen – check. And how do we justify such an extravagent purchase in times like these, oh yeah, plug in electric drive – check, it’s worth it because we’re saving the planet.  

    Jeffhre

    I don’t disagree entirely, but the one thing that ALL of those large luxury “flagship” cars keep in common is a tank like feel that is created by the more robust rwd platforms. I understand what your saying about the economy, but when it comes down to it – Cadillac doesn’t really need a volume seller here that will be about the same price as the next version of the CTS (that is the current situation with the DTS). They need a halo flagship car that the people you’re talking about can test drive then go by the more reasonable version. I’m still convinced that even if this car is a great car, and I think it will be, they need a car to price somewhere very close to 100k at the top end and start at least above 60k. This car is unlikely to be that high. There just isn’t a lot of money to be had at the kind of margins their going for with this car.

    Again, I am pretty much a radical GM and Cadillac fan, but this car just isn’t going to place GM where it needs to be competitively. You may think that a few of your friends are wanting to downgrade and justify it by getting a hybrid, but once they ride in an inferior car and then realize that BMW, Lexus, MB, and Audi all have luxo cruisers that are hybrids, they may just turn around and go with what is familiar and confidence inspiring.

    I hope not, but I think that is what will happen. This car doesn’t make BMW want to change anything or get worried. When the CTS came out, the world was on notice. When the ATS comes out everyone is going to be throwing it in with the 3-series, C-class, and A4. The XTS however, is going to get shredded in reviews because it is a tweener – more luxurious than any other american car, but too cheap to even pay for the Alacantra trademark so they can move into real luxury territory.


  168. 168
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (11:27 am)

    carcus1: I must confess, I didn’t know who Colin Chapman was.

    #134

    Somebody quoted him here recently on the subject of lightness. I though it was you. Anyway, what a brilliant link. It’s enough to bring tears to an old vintage racer’s eyes. 1


  169. 169
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (11:32 am)

    DonC: And the Up!Lite is under 700kg. If all vehicles were put on a diet like that we wouldn’t need to worry about a lot of the expensive drive trains.

    #151

    True that. +1.


  170. 170
    Harrier1970

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Harrier1970
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (11:38 am)

    This is the kind of vehicle design that GM needs to be working on for the Cadillac brand if they want to get away from the “Grandpa’s car” perception.

    Oh… and when the XTS Platinum does not sell well in California I will try not to say I told you so.


  171. 171
    Harrier1970

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Harrier1970
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (11:40 am)

    This is the kind of vehicle design that GM needs to be working on for the Cadillac brand if they want to get away from the “Grandpa’s car” perception

    http://www.lexus.com/models/GSh/index.html?s_ocid=30688

    Oh… and when the XTS Platinum does not sell well in California I will try not to say I told you so.


  172. 172
    jbfalaska

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jbfalaska
     Says

     

    Jan 13th, 2010 (6:57 pm)

    All there is to say is “wow!!!”

    That’s a heckuva car. As is the Tesla S. As is the Volt. Finally smelling blood in the water on our addiction to foreign oil. Good for America. I’ve the cash and the credit line – Dear Detroit – Ready!


  173. 173
    jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jan 14th, 2010 (1:05 am)

    deyobr: I don’t disagree entirely, but the one thing that ALL of those large luxury “flagship” cars keep in common is a tank like feel that is created by the more robust rwd platforms. I understand what your saying about the economy, but when it comes down to it – Cadillac doesn’t really need a volume seller here that will be about the same price as the next version of the CTS (that is the current situation with the DTS). They need a halo flagship car that the people you’re talking about can test drive then go by the more reasonable version.

    Nicely written; it all depends on what they build into the platform doesn’t it, if it does fall short you are right on the money. I wrote in the next post a little about it. This must be worldclass with all of the high end features and technology or GM should not call it platinum if it is to be a credible offering IMO.


  174. 174
    Stas Peterson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Stas Peterson
     Says

     

    Jan 17th, 2010 (4:26 pm)

    The largest automobile produced for the to market, purportedly wanting large cars, has now been shown to be a candidate for practical ICE downsizing, and PHEV hybridization. With a battery half to three quarters the size of a Volt, and an ICE downsized by.1 liter from 4.7 liters to 3.6 liters, or 24%, what is the practical mileage? I would guess 50-85 mpge, in the city; and 35-40 on the highway for a combined 45-50 mpge. Virtually 100% of the energy displaced to electricity, is not generated by Petroleum, replacing that oil demand in its entirety.

    That represent a 50% or more, reduction in fossil fuel consumed, over the vehicle that it replaces, STS/DTS. The Cadillac XTS will more than hold its own in contributing to breaking the Oil Price Cartel.

    This car brimming with 21st century technical advances; from hybridization and partial electrification, to active suspension, and all the safety advances offered by by XWD, ABS, TC and EDC pus collision avoidance, plus crush zones and rollover protection, and omnipresent airbags, represents a new and valid contender for ‘Standard of the World’.


  175. 175
    buy r4i software

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    buy r4i software
     Says

     

    Jan 19th, 2010 (2:36 am)

    This car is really an awesome I am very happy that I can able to see this car in this post the interior and the desk board of this car is so nice and attractive.The designing of this car is so nice .