People often ask and speculate about whether GM will secretly roll the Volt out earlier than November 2010 in a surprise move.
GM first publicly announced the November 2010 target launch date back in November 2007, when I happened to pick up Bob Lutz mentioning it in the scrum at the 2007 LA Auto Show. This three year soup to nuts target is aggressive for any vehicle, let alone one so complex and dependent on new technology as the Volt, compounded by its need for a heretofore nonexistent mass-production lithium ion battery pack.
It is downright remarkable that considering all the drama GM has been through the date hasn’t changed at all. GM apparently even has a specific day in mid-November when the first car will be launched.
GM has a new board of directors which was installed after they emerged from bankruptcy. This has been headed by Ed Whitacre, former CEO of AT&T, who recently ousted Fritz Henderson.
Currently, according to the New York Times GM is flush with cash. They are said to have a stockpile of $46.2 billion and the board is looking for ways to use it to help achieve profitability as soon as possible.
One idea the new board came up with, according to anonymous sources, was to offer $100 million more for the Volt program in an effort to get the car released sooner than November 2010.
Considering GM has already spend $1 billion developing the car, and around $700 million investing in its manufacturing infrastructure, what’s another $100 million if it could put it in the public hands sooner. Of course, the simple labor of time in ironing out the glitches may not be something money could buy.
In fact, GM VP Jon Lauckner told the New York Times that more money won’t necessarily allow GM to launch the Volt out sooner, but could allow them to build more early prototypes for consumer test drive opportunities.
“We have already reduced the Volt’s development time by about seven months,” Lauckner told the Times. “Our date with destiny is November of 2010, but it could be useful for us to have the money to get some vehicles to consumers earlier than that.”
So will this money be spent, and what exactly does Jon Lauckner mean?
Source (New York Times)
This entry was posted on Wednesday, December 9th, 2009 at 7:23 am and is filed under Launch. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
+75
Dec 9th, 2009 (7:41 am)9 women can’t make a baby in one month, it just doesn’t work that way.
I’ve seen this behavior in managers so many times. They think that throwing people and money at something will always make it go faster. In my experience, the gains are minimal and often the added people slow things down due to lack of knowledge. My advice is that if the people doing the work say they need something, then listen and try to help. If you just wish things could go faster and all you have is money, it’s better to be patient and save your money for when it’s really needed.
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+32
Dec 9th, 2009 (7:44 am)At this point, there is no point to try and speed things up, but it may be possible to plan on higher production levels in 2011.
Certainly higher production volumes are crucial to getting the costs down.
If they have money to throw around they should certainly think about the SUV/EREV and even a pickup EREV.
And of course GEN 2 is the most critical at this point as the GEN 1s will be taken by the early adopters. GEN 2 needs to be ready for the masses.
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+11
Dec 9th, 2009 (7:45 am)Tag is smiling…
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+13
Dec 9th, 2009 (7:47 am)“They are said to have a stockpile of $46.2 billion…’
====================================================
Perhaps they could start paying back the US/Canadian taxpayers…just a thought.
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+14
Dec 9th, 2009 (7:49 am)Remember, every Volt sold with a lifetime of 150,000 miles AER means between $10,000 and $25,000 in US dollars that stay in this country and our economy instead of going overseas. But that is over 10 years or so.
So the electric revolution isn’t going to help fix our economy overnight, it will take years. For now we just to see companies commit to building these cars in enough volume to get the costs down.
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+6
Dec 9th, 2009 (7:52 am)This is what economists call a multiplier effect.
Obama likes to spend money where every $1 spent creats 80 cents in economic activity.
Tax Credits for electric cars made in America not only spur the production and sale of these cars, but keeps the fuel cost in our economy and creating jobs.
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+9
Dec 9th, 2009 (7:54 am)From the article,
In fact, GM VP Jon Lauckner told the New York Times that more money won’t necessarily allow GM to launch the Volt out sooner, but could allow them to build more early prototypes for consumer test drive opportunities.
Pick me! Pick me!. Oh please pick me! Pretty please.
I so want this car. I paid $2.85 for gas yesterday.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (7:54 am)““Our date with destiny is November of 2010, but it could be useful for us to have the money to get some vehicles to consumers earlier than that.”
So will this money be spent, and what exactly does Jon Lauckner mean?”
There is an opening as wide as a Semi for us to cherry pick GM-Volt’s want list.
At least, that’s what I’m hearing
LJTVWOTR! NPNS!
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+10
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:00 am)The $100,000,000 will be better spent on quality components for the Volt. A superior sound system. A leather wrapped steering wheel. A carbon fiber or marbling effect on the center console and inner door panels. Rear view camera “standard” on the Volt. High end GPS antenna. High tech wiper blades…. ect.
Quality is king. Especially on a new model during the first model year. A rush to release during the summer of 2010 is unnecessary.
=D~
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+10
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:03 am)“They are said to have a stockpile of $46.2 billion…’
I remember 2 years ago when Statik was reporting their financial doom 46.2 Billion only lasted a few months. Good to hear that 46.2 Billion isn’t considered inadequate at this point.
If they are going to roll the date back it should either be September 11th or for a real aggressive roll back July 4th.
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:04 am)Clearly the new management sees an excellent incremental opportunity to have a set of additional individuals be realistically, practically, and first-hand-knowledgeable in being able to assist in the public’s education regarding electrification, and, especially with Voltec.
This would be an extremely wise move, since the more reasonable and technically-attentive testers are the exponential information sources that would be needed to compete with the excessively-diverse non-technical “sources” whom really do not have enough of a dedication or technical background.
If, say, a non-technical “source” happens to have unrealistic expectations in light of the breathtakingly efficient and astonishing advancements occurring at GM, then ample responses to correct those expectations and misstatements would be available to those “sources” without GM itself needing to be diverted from this critical mission in any way.
100 million in additional funding for more initial vehicles would also provide editorial opportunities (here on Lyle’s site for “subsites”?) so that there would be a wider “bridge” for readers, and, to focus on educating the public more exponentially for this changeover to electrification.
This would be a very wise and impressive thing for the board to finalize and accomplish.
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+18
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:06 am)Excellent point!
If GM wants to make the Volt happen sooner in a meaningful way to consumers, then the Nov 2010 date is not as important as when I can buy one at my local dealership. If spending an extra $100M can accelerate that, I’m all for it.
Bottom line: Accelerate the rollout, not the initial release.
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+6
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:10 am)The Volt doesn’t need any more advertising. Last I checked there were not any unsold Volts sitting in dealer lots. The Volt needs a commitment to higher volumes in 2011 and more importantly by GEN2 different models, high volumes and lower costs on components.
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+7
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:18 am)Too funny. I was just popping in to write “it takes 9 months to have a baby no matter how many women try to help”. That’s one of my often used expressions at work when dealing with management and schedules. My other one is “reality isn’t effected by what someone writes down on a piece of paper”.
GM should put that cash back in their wallet. If the team says “they’re getting it done as soon as they can” then throwing money at them isn’t going to change anything (and it’s insulting to the team because it implies that they aren’t doing their best).
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:30 am)I’ve noticed that we have gone through about 3 phases with the Volt.
In the first phase, the Volt was greenlighted by the Board, and work began to design the Volt, choose the battery technology, spec parts and find suppliers, etc. I will call this this design phase.
Next we moved into the testing/calibration phase, where components, were tested (remember the Malibu mules), parts were tried, and specialized software was developed. I believe we are at the tail end of this phase.
Now it seems we are moving into the 3rd phase, production . Battery pack production begins in January. Press releases discuss the sums of money spent on various factories to support the Volt. And recently, a PR event at the Hamtramck plant.
At the GM Volt site (don’t want to mention its name, for fear of being put into m…….), there is a video with Jon Lauckner. He mentions that in March/April, they will make PPV’s (product and process validation vehicles) on the line in Hamtramck. With extra funding, I’m sure they could make more of these for select customers to drive prior to the actual release date.
I don’t think $100 million will be well spent, as it likely cannot speed up the critical path tasks by much. But it will be money well spent to create a “Project Driveway” for the Volt.
Initial locales for the Project Driveway – Anywhere but California!
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:32 am)$100,000,000 buys 2,500 Volts at $40,000 each. I’ll take one if their giving the first 2,500 away for free.
NPNS!
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:37 am)It’s not advertising at all. Education is absolutely critical. While yes, everyone knows how to drive any car, this is not about advertising, it is about technical expectations that 99.999 percent of the public still are unaware, and, will just happen to go into the Chevy Store totally clueless.
Because many here are knowledgeable, I doubt that could translate overnight to the next day in November of 2010 when the Volts initially become shipped to dealers, and a clueless buyer suddenly has puzzlement and operational concerns that they are totally unable to express because of insufficiently-wide public education. People then express what they do not understand or are concerned about in the most non-technical ways the best they can. (This is also about the prevention of unnecessary concerns afterwards).
It would not be a good idea to assume the public will just have no transitional expectation questions they are unable to express, just because most people here are excellent at asking the right questions. The general public is not at all close to the technical IQ levels seen here, (of that I am ASE-L1 certified to compliment you regarding) and it would be an unwise thing to expect that they are in all cases.
The Chevy Store service department has enough trouble with explaining ICE-engined vehicular problems to customers. This would be one way to help alleviate and prevent much of the business risk with these entirely new ***ARRAYS*** of new technologies.
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:41 am)I can’t add much to the above, except for this. When management starts thinking this way:
1) Be thankful that they consider this a form of affirmation.
2) Everybody has to be careful that they don’t stir the pot in a destructive way.
So, GM you’ve got a good thing going, keep it up, but DON’T screw it up.
And BTW, I’m really close to 50,000 on the list here, but about 5 on the list at the Ohio dealer, but no matter that what is best for the Volt is what I want. Just hope to MSRP does not skyrocket due to demand, because $40K will pretty much max me out.
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:41 am)I am willing to bet that this money is going to distribution so that the car can be sold in more locations and increase the availability and decrease the amount of time consumers will have to wait to get a Volt.
Sometimes people need a car right away and can’t wait 6-8 weeks for their car to get to the dealer. This is supposed to be GM’s leap frog of the competition and I don’t see them doing well if they just limp into it. Punch it!
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+4
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:43 am)Good points.
I don’t think Obama likes spending money on stimulus projects. He would rather lower interest rates, but that’s already at zero. And remember that the first stimulus contained biggest tax cut in history for the lower 95% of wage earners, so that’s already been done as well. What else is left?
Also, while 80 cents on the dollar is an accurate yield for economic activity, remember that decreased economic activity decreases incomes, which in-turn decreases tax revenues. So not spending money on stimulus could make the deficit worse.
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:47 am)***************************************************************
We really can not make a judgment call on this w/o knowing what’s going on in the Volt’s engineering department. Only GM insiders know if that is possible, and yes it is possible. Many companies in history have successfully sped projects and GM could also be able to do it.
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+4
Dec 9th, 2009 (8:48 am)Re #17, If GM has some smarts (and I’m pretty hopeful they do) they may recognize that they have some potential allies here at GM-Volt.com and they can use us as ambassadors to the public, not just for EV religiousity, but for the quality of GM engineering as a whole. And for that matter, Ford engineering is no slouch either. I sure would love to say the same about Chrysler (I have bought Chrysler mini-vans in an unbroken chain for about 3 vehicles, 15 years?), but it just does not sound good for them.
Anyway, it would be good if GM can mobilize us as part of something bigger than just a pool of customers.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (8:59 am)Yes!
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (9:01 am)I can’t say that I bought gas yesterday since I’m on Vacation in New York, but the last time I bought gas in Canada, it was the equivalent of about $4.50 U.S. a gallon. An earlier launch in Canada would be great. I sure wouldn’t mind an early Project Driveway-style test drive, though…
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (9:02 am)There are at least two key factors affecting the adoption of the Volt; one GM can control directly, the other they can’t. They could spend money to introduce the Volt earlier (whether it’s early releases or actually moving the dates); but they cannot affect the cost of gasoline at the time of introduction. On the one hand, the car gets out sooner, but on the other, it might be best to wait until there is more incentive for buying it ($3 – $4 gas).
I agree that wide-scale rollout is more important than “introduction.”
It may be that GM will consider a Mini-E-like “research lease” program with 1 or 2 thousand “early” units.
Here’s another idea: use the $100 million to directly subsidize early cars (whenever they are launched) to lower purchase price somewhat.
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (9:05 am)I agree, Dave! Plus, I’d keep the November 2010 date. And I’d add standard power seats, an optional solar roof (to cool the interior like Prius does), a sun roof option and/or an electrochromeric roof option, and optional stereo speakers in the “shoulders” of each of the 4 bucket seats with individual volume & on/off controls for each passenger in their center consoles. I’d also replace the headlights, taillights, etc as well as all interior lighting with long-life, low-power LED lighting.
Most of these upscale improvements/options could be developed by GM’s suppliers funded at only a small fraction of the Board’s $100 million.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (9:05 am)The money can be used to speed up the tech training and thus add more locations to sell the Volt… the more cars are out there, the quicker that all the bugs can be stomped out.
Get to work on the Voltec Converj.. and change the name.
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+4
Dec 9th, 2009 (9:06 am)Let’s say GM can successfully get the Volt out about the same time as the Cruze, a question remains. Would it be worth an extra 100 million dollars spent? It could be. The Volt, as a halo car, could get a lot of people in the showroom and although many could not afford the price of the Volt, they could end up buying the Cruze, Malibu or any other GM products.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (9:12 am)There are lots of ways to use that money:
1) Increase production numbers within the existing schedule
2) Put more effort into developing / launching the Ampera and Converj, so that they get to market sooner
3) Evaluate Moller International / Freedom Motors compound rotary ICE as a range extender, to reduce noise and increase efficiency
4) Develop / offer alternative fuel range extenders, like natural gas / hydrogen ICE’s, compressed air rotary engines (Engineair’s dePietro air engine of Australia) and petroleum / alcohol / hydrogen fuel cells
I would do all four.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (9:15 am)But if one woman smokes, she might have a premature baby in 7 months. And the “birthday” is forever recorded as two months earlier, even if the kid wasn’t totally ready at birth.
GM could similarly “launch” the Volt in September or August, and forever record an earlier “birthday”. This might give it some bragging rights – they could sell 100 Volts to the most eager customers (maybe Lyle could get one), and then agree to update the software if there was any final tweaking in that time. I bet the hardware will be set in stone by then.
It might create some buzz, it might put GM in a nice “faster, bolder, more advanced” light.
Who knows.
But it is doable.
Or they could use the $100 million for bonuses, get the people who are working hard to work a bit harder, to get everything ready by August, then let the exhausted engineers take a vacation, and hand things over to the production people. Time is money.
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+9
Dec 9th, 2009 (9:26 am)100 million / 20,000 Volts in 2011 is $5,000 discount. Lets look at the math.
$40,000 – $7,500 tax credit – $5,000 = $27,500 for the First Year Volt.
Wouldnt that be nice.
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+6
Dec 9th, 2009 (9:41 am)“but it could be useful for us to have the money to get some vehicles to consumers earlier than that.”
No… It could be useful to get demonstrator [VOLT] models into the dealer showrooms to generate ORDERS for future vehicles, and to create that elusive by-product called the “Halo-Effect”.
It could be “profitable” if they took some of that piggy bank and pushed forward with Chevy Cruze models and get those into the hands of consumers.
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (9:41 am)************************************************************
I suspect some of these items are already being worked on.
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (9:43 am)There is much to be gained by getting the Volt out there quicker. This is a bona-fide race to the get electric cars into the hands of the first adopters. These adopters will be the primary promoters of the technology and will tolerate the minor changes that this technology brings. The government money will quickly be shut off once they see that the ball is rolling.
There is a limited number of these first adopters who will make their purchases from the Ev’s and Erev’s available at the time. GM needs to be there with a good product to “forever” win the hearts of these first buyers.
I further think that this money will most likely be spent to accelerate the delivery of the parts that make up the Volt as well as get the assembly line staffed, trained, and ready to put these cars together.
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+4
Dec 9th, 2009 (9:51 am)What else is left? LOL
How about tax cuts for small business were it can work? How about stop talking about new mandates for small business? (health care)
We have tried increasing Government WASTE it did not work! How about cutting spending and red tape BS.
A vote for ANY Dem is a vote for Nasty Nancy remember that this year. She took over in 2006 are YOU better off now then you were in 2006?????????????????????
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:04 am)…actually
(figured I’d wade in with a quickie before the thread gets too long, because the ‘GM Cash’ situation is a pretty convuluted affair)
GM has no where near 42.6 billion at the moment…and some that they still have is unavailable in the escrow account…and some of the rest ‘of the rest’ is earmarked to pay back govt loans (which ironically is direct money the gov’t put into the account in the first place just a few months ago)
GM has about 27-29 billion (give or take) to play with still. Not sure what there minimum operating level is now…used to be around 12 billion, might be more like 8-9 billion now they have less kiting to do.
Some of the random ‘one time’ expenses from the 42.6 billion cash since the update on Sept 30:
2.8B Delphi
8.1B earmarked to UST/EDC (1.3 of which paid out Dec 09)
1.0B Canadian pensions
.4 Daewoo sucks
.6 recall of German bridge loan
We still have cash drains coming out of Daewoo, wind-down costs of dead brands, and most importantly (and super-critical to GM’s eventual success of failure) the Opel situation. GM estimates the ‘restructuring’ cost at €3 Billion (4.4ish USD)…but it could run much, much higher. is) north of 10. How much they get out of Europe to offset these costs is still unkown…so they have to be really careful.
Usable cash (after minimum operating levels) is likely in the 19-21 billion dollar range. Still a lot of money…but nothing like saying 42.6.
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:10 am)Project driveway….. Send a Volt to me in Central Alberta, Canada… In the last 4 days….
17 CMs snow (over 7 inches) and temperatures hanging around -24 C (-12 F) …
A Perfect testing ground for the Volt…
AND… I can do side by side comparsions with the 2010 Fusion Hybrid that is currently in my driveway….
Not plugged in overnight and still no troubles starting in the morning…
With it’s wider stance and traction control… this car has been like a tank… goes almost anywhere in the heavy snow without getting stuck..
The only complaint so far… the back up sensors get covered in ice and snow and malfunction when you put the car in reverse.. Luckily there is a reset button on the steering wheel.
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+5
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:13 am)If they want to invest more, it could be put into a broader rollout to more areas in the USA. Get more dealers up and running for service.
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:17 am)I have to agree with corvette guy. Get Volts on the dealer lots for test drives and after say a month or two offer them for sale with full warrenty at a discount of another $7,500.00. I think the general public must get as excited about the Volt as we are
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+4
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:19 am)nasaman #26 Says: “I agree, Dave! Plus, I’d keep the November 2010 date. And I’d add standard power seats, an optional solar roof (to cool the interior like Prius does), a sun roof option and/or an electrochromeric roof option, and optional stereo speakers in the “shoulders” of each of the 4 bucket seats with individual volume & on/off controls for each passenger in their center consoles. I’d also replace the headlights, taillights, etc as well as all interior lighting with long-life, low-power LED lighting.”
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I agree with you, but those will be improvements for the 2012 model. Trying to introduce that many changes on a model that as yet has not been sold to anyone is probably asking a lot for the design teams and the parts companies. I would think that they have reached a “freeze” point for the hardware, unless they find a problem that needs corrected. From all of the reports and videos I have seen lately, it looks like they are just doing final tweaking of software now.
If they want to spend that money, spend it on training the service techs and sales people, so they can eliminate the “limited release area” concept and go with a nationwide rollout for Nov, 2010. Or maybe, produce about 5K more units and sell them to the people on Lyle’s list. The good will and free advertising that would generate for GM would be worth ten times that $100 million spent.
JohnK At #18 said he was about #50,000 on Lyle’s list, but #5 at his Ohio dealer. I am # 1396 on this list, and #1 at Sweeney Chevy in Youngstown, OH. All GM has to do is let me know when and where to send them a deposit check. I am ready and waiting.
So, GM, let’s get it going!!!!
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:22 am)I sure hope the VOLT has more than a 150k mile life.
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:28 am)Is it possible the taxpayers may make out better if the company becomes profitable?
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:30 am)Maybe they could buy $100 million’s worth of hi-octane coffee/Redbull for all the Volt employees?
Seriously though, i’m sure there are area’s where some extra $ could accelerate things. Not so much on the design/testing side, but more on making the plants ready. You can always hire more contractors/extra hands to move/install more equipment and work OT hours. We’ve done weekend projects at GM over holidays that would normally take 2 weeks but we had a lot more ppl than normal and had to pay everyone to work 3 shifts + holiday pay.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:31 am)One of the first things the Obama admin did was extend the up to $7500 tax credit for plug-ins from something like 250K total to 200K per manufacturer. Personally, I think they should have just made it the first 1M regardless of manufacturer but 200K per manufacturer is better than it was. While they have done a lot of “short term” stimilus stuff (too much IMO also) but they have also done more mid to long term stimulus than what we had prior.
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:31 am)The problem with politicians of course is their short sightedness.
Credits to get the Electric car revolution going faster has a huge payback to the economy, but unfortunately it is spread out over many years (every year the Volt will decrease US dollars going overseas to purchase energy and keep that money circulating in our economy).
$1 given to a state government today helps them with their budget deficit but doesn’t create much economic activity.
$1 spent for a cash credit to purchase an American built Electric Car will create jobs now and in 10 years when that electric car is using American electricity instead of Saudi oil.
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:33 am)I thought the battery warranty was for 150,000 miles. But for many people they will only be able to drive 10,000 miles a year electrically.
My plan is to charge at work and achieve well over 15,000 miles AER yearly.
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:42 am)Best thing they could do is give a buyer ready Volt to Lyle as soon as possible. Let him test it for a few months then you’ve got at least 50,000 of us getting first hand info everyday.
Would have to include free service and consultation from GM during this testing.
When the test period is over Lyle could be compensated for his service by presenting him with a brand new Volt. His choice of options, colors etc.
Money well spent !
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Dec 9th, 2009 (10:50 am)I agree, but I don’t think the car needs more content, it just needs better quality. So I would go to my parts suppliers and say, “Give me those Toyota quality parts instead of the usual crap I get. I can afford it now.” It’s all the little tiny components that fail and leave you by the roadside or cause major headaches. It’s all the tiny widgets that GM bought for $1.10 while Toyota pays $1.50 that earns them all those black balls in consumer reports.
Aside from that, I’d use the money to get the rest of the product line up to speed. New Impala anybody? How about an HHR that doesn’t fall apart? Maybe some smaller plug in 2 Mode Hybrids not just in SUVs? How about a better Aveo? Plenty of places to spend money and I think the Volt already gets it’s fair share.
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+5
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:51 am)I think more quality assurance would be best. Nail that J. D. Powers survey the first year!
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:55 am)Use the $100,000 to prepare more dealerships in advance to service the Volts, in more areas thant just California.
If GM doesn’t want to miss some market share from us early adopters – then they need to have the VOLT available to more of the country sooner than what we are reading. The rollout is too slow and the moey could be well spent in other parts of the country
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (10:59 am)When discussing government spending it’s always a good idea to be clear on what we’re talking about. To begin with, we need to understand that government spending invariably has a fiscal multiplier above 1. So saying that Obama likes to spend $1 to get 80 cents of stimulus is completely and impossibly wrong as a factual matter. Mark, Zandi, who was McCain’s economic adviser, estimated the multiplier of several different types of spending. These highest multiplier was 1.73 for an increase in food stamps. All were above 1, and some, like extending unemployment benefits, probably have as high a multiplier as the food stamp program.
By contrast, tax cuts generally have very low multipliers. Again, Zandi estimated that the multiplier for the Bush tax custs as .23, which is a way of saying that you get less than a quarter of spending for every dollar of tax cuts. The exception is for payroll tax cuts, which have an estimated multiplier of 1.29.
Also at issue is whether the money will be spent on imports. This is one reason why the Obama Administration is so in love with weatherization programs — these programs are labor intensive (so a high multiplier), most of the materials are from domestic sources, and the net result is a decrease in the consumption of imports in the out years.
This isn’t to say that tax cuts are bad or that government spending is good. It depends on the situation. But it’s fair to say that the Obama Administration knows exactly what it’s doing on the stimulus. Doubtless it could do much better if not for the political realities — you don’t need to pass an IQ test to be elected to Congress — but it does know how this all works.
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (11:04 am)That’s hilarious – It’s time for a final GM-Volt sponsored Tag v. Statik timeline showdown, fight to the death, charity benefit cagematch.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (11:08 am)pdt: 9 women can’t make a baby in one month, it just doesn’t work that way
======================
Yes but 9 people can make a car 9 times faster than 1
==ALso its not too early to start thinking about an electric pickup truck or SUV (id be happy with 20 miles AER) YO know those things that 50% of the public are stilll buying ,driving, and guzzling gas.
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+4
Dec 9th, 2009 (11:11 am)Even if we are just shifting energy use from one fossil fuel to another (OIL to Coal) At least it OUR energy and not imported. Good newsfore the economy if not for the environment.
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (11:13 am)I think that GM would be well advised to take a tip from Tag and create a July 4th event centered around the Volt. As he says, it could be the start of a new American Independence Day!
Obviously GM isn’t going to start production on that day. It doesn’t have to. It could accomplish the same thing by making a big deal of handing over the keys to some of the test cars (GM is planning on this anyway) to selected consumers. (NOT having them all be resident in California would be a very good things). The vast majority of Americans dislike being dependent on OPEC and would like to see GM succeed. Having a home grown solution — the Volt — that potentially addresses both of these feelings would be a big positive, and then linking the Volt as the American solution to the problem of the dependency on foreign oil to the quintessential American holiday of July 4th would tap into a great reservoir of good will for GM and be an absolute home run.
If GM can position itself as the brand that has the American solution to the problem of the dependency on foreign oil the GM brand will shine, which means GM will sell more of all kinds of vehicles.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (11:13 am)There is a GIANT segment of people spending up to $50,000 on new suvs and trucks that will never have or want an small Eco-box (compact car)in their driveway.
THey have the money Don,t wait for toyota or honda to tap this segment .
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (11:14 am)I agree with you …. I just wonder what the used price of the Volt will be … You know the used one on the dealer lot with only 14 Miles on it.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (11:16 am)I’m fine with November as long the car is perfect. Assuming perfection I would Like Chevrolet to use that Money to build enough cars so that when people do come looking in November there are actual cars for them to see and drive. Every authorized Volt dealer should have several models in diferent colors and trim levels in the show room and on the lot. I think it hurts sales if people have to wait several weeks or months to order or even see the car they want. Though Camaro doesn’t seem to have been hurt by this, People need to see, touch, feel, and Drive Volt because of the cutting edge Technology it has to be sure it is the car for them…I think it will be, but give the dealers enough cars so customers can see them in person. If they can do it a few weeks or even a month or two early, then that’s fine too.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (11:17 am)Not having read all posts, this may already have been said…..
Instead of bumping the intro date ahead (if even possible) use it to increase production capability sooner than planned, and to more quickly broaden the selection of markets where the Volt will be initially sold.
Or, use it to push the Converj to market sooner than currently planned. If the Volt turns out to be the big hit that we all expect it to be in the marketplace, GM would be doing itself a big favor if they could follow it up quickly with the Converj – especially if this could be done before their competition brings out their own EREVs. GM would have such a head start on everybody, it would be similar for them as how the Prius has been for Toyota. They would be the dominant force in the EREV lower price range as well as the highly profitible EREV premium price range.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (11:24 am)Into on September 11th – phenomenol idea!
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+5
Dec 9th, 2009 (11:28 am)Although humorous, comparing a biological process to a gannt chart is a little obtuse. There are ways that this kind of cash can make a real difference in volume, training, quality and inching the roll-out date. And it mostly boils down to the human factor.
Have daily stand-up meetings to keep focus. Get some bright lights for everyone’s homes (it’s the middle of winter, combat depression). Supply free daycare for workers. Provide limo service. If there is a weather event, supply hotel accommodations. Keep workers in the building for lunches by buying lunch. Get some IVRs into the hands of the line workers (keep the goal in everyone’s minds.) Install 240v charging sets for free in their homes. Provide free carpet cleaning and maid service for their homes. Play ‘Eye of the Tiger’ in the break rooms. Play videos of Lyle and others driving Volts with huge grins on their faces. Have some ‘all hands’ meetings run by Whitacre and a professional motivational speaker. Give huge bonus’ for making timeline goals or have a party to celebrate. Make sure you thank their spouses for the extra effort.
Hell, just ask the people what the heck they need to git-er-done and make it happen. (Hint: It’s probably not money.)
Basically anything you can do to increase productivity with the current crew. (Adding crew is usually anti-productivity.) You don’t want to increase hours, you want to increase motivation and productivity.
Rested, motivated workers that are not worried about family, financial, or other personal issues make for a smoother, quicker, better build and implementation.
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (11:36 am)Gsned57: If they are going to roll the date back it should either be September 11th …
________________________________
Volt intro on September 11, 2010; No gas… – phenomenal idea!
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (11:56 am)Use the money to increase initial production so we can get our Volts early.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (12:10 pm)An engineering manager friend working for a Chevy dealership in northern Michigan told me a couple weeks ago they heard a “rumor” the Volt may become available during the 3rd quarter of 2010. Perhaps as a demonstrator car for select dealerships?
Though only a “rumor” I hope GM takes whatever engineering time they need to further refine the Volt’s engineering before distribution begins.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (12:21 pm)They will start paying it back this month from what has been publicized:
http://onthehillblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/gm-announces-it-will-pay-back-govt-loan.html
The article says that “the GAO deemed that scenario “unlikely.” The former chief of the auto task force went farther, saying that $20 billion of the $50 billion given to GM probably won’t be coming back.” Read the whole article for the details. IMHO, GM will repay the loans. That they are using some of the TARP money they received, which is being held in escrow to repay $6.71 billion to the U.S. and approximately $1.4 billion to the Canadian government. Also, good news about Germany giving a $1.3 billion loan to GM. all in all, it looks like GM will continue to be a viable automotive manufacturer.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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+7
Dec 9th, 2009 (12:25 pm)I love this idea.
I think I will paint a giant middle finger on the hood of my Volt when I get it.
And tell those miserable, hateful, murdering people that they can kiss my A$$ because I am not supporting them anymore!!
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-1
Dec 9th, 2009 (12:25 pm)I have an idea for the 100mill….
$100,000,000.00 / $25,000.00 = 4,000
Use the $$$ to have the first 4000 customers “Go Green” by………..
wait for it……….
here it comes…..
…………
Putting a 3.5KW Solar package on the customers roof!!!!
Back to my Kahlua n coffee.
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (12:28 pm)Yeah! Plus 1 for you!!!!
AMEN BROTHA!!!!
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (12:32 pm)But it will stop the bleeding our economy has been feeling from foreign oil. IMHO, it will move faster and begin the curb of over $26 billion per month at current gasoline prices which will not likely remain low in the near future.
CNN is carrying a segment on Green Economy jobs. That sector has been the most rapidly growing job segment. It has been creating jobs and will continue as we make the jump from fossil fuel to electric based economy. This will definitely help the nations economy recover from the recession.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (12:39 pm)I think you may have set a record on the “thumbs-up-o-meter.” Your comment is +29 as I write this, and I bet it goes higher still.
You’re spot on. I hate when this happens at my job. It often causes our processes to LOSE momentum as we bring new resources up to speed – and weed out any newly added deadwood.
I want the Volt to be RIGHT…. not necessarily RIGHT NOW. It’s happening pretty damn fast to begin with.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (12:40 pm)Tag is probably gloating! If so, it’s well earned. Enjoy it!!
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Dec 9th, 2009 (12:51 pm)I’ll agree with you on quality in king! IMHO. that is exactly what GM is giving us. A lot of the items you mentioned may already be on the Volt like the rear view camera.
Many here have expressed their desire to see the Volt come to dealer’s lots early. $100 million is not that much to spend and if it can allow early retail of the Volt, it will help GM compete between with the likes of Nissan.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (12:58 pm)Even if not introduced on 9/11, there ought to be something fairly big that is Volt related on that date! Go Volt, go GM, go USA!
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (1:00 pm)The lower costs of components will come with GEN 2 as higher volumes of cars produced will result in more efficient utilization of factories allowing those reductions in parts prices.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (1:04 pm)It depends on what the money is spent on. Haven’t you have heard the expression ‘your tax dollar has an expensive night on the town in Washington before heading back out to be spent’?
Also lots of the stimulus money went to states allegedly for this or that, but the reality was because the states were running deficits, it is just an accounting entry. So many stimulus dollars just helped states balance sheets but did not create any stimulus much less jobs.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (1:13 pm)Don;
Also this isn’t the type of multiplier the Volt is. If someone is paid $100 to do some Labor installing a new window, then they take that money and go buy something, then yets that all great because it drives some other commerce.
The Volt does that also for the auto workers, dealers etc. But in addition to that kind of economic multiplier the Volt has the additional Multiplier benefits that continue for the life of the car, in that each Volt can displate between $10,000 and $25,000 US Currency leaving the country for imported oil, and that currency stays here and drives economic activity.
Further the faster we get over the hump in EV/EREV development the faster we can move to make all new cars have this benefit.
And this time we need to create an industry that not only American invent but we keep the jobs here.
The eighties and nineties were good more than anything else because of the technolical revolutions of computers, communication, internet, cell phones etc. But as these things become commodities these industries stopped creating and in fact replaced jobs.
You can’t have an economy without jobs. And once again thats the beauty of the Volt and this new technology, not only can it drive economic activity but it addresses our trade imbalance as well (how about instead of importing oil we export volts!).
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Dec 9th, 2009 (1:21 pm)I’m quoting myself because I like this quote.
What better way to deal with our enemies overseas but to defeat them economically (while saving our own economy).
The volt is the first step, but as a nation we need to focus on this direction.
Stop importing Oil!
Export Volts!!
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (1:33 pm)Those new windows also mean lower heating and cooling energy costs each season, which allows the family to spend those dollars on other products and activities that they choose, year after year.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (1:48 pm)Yes but spending $100 to save $100 on your natural gas heating bill isn’t as valuable as saving $100 on your car’s gasoline bill, because that $100 leaves our country and ends up funding terrorists in the middle east. Where do you think the Taliban and all these other terrorist get their bombs and guns? From Iran and other extremists.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (2:07 pm)Spend that money either in advertising success during the launch or at the showrooms to generate sales. By all means ensure you put out a good product but I agree that by itself… more money and more people is a waste. Ask the people running this at the lowest level what they need and get it to them.
so… to recap:
1) advertise success of the Volt program
2) prep the showrooms and be ready to direct the overflow of consumers to other vehicles that are ready to sell now
3) find out what you really need at the lowest levels of Volt production and get that money in their hands.
Red tape is also something that you can do without in this process.
Harrier1970
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Dec 9th, 2009 (2:08 pm)So GM is going to use the untapped portion of the loan, to start paying off the loan. Kind of a crock of “Shaving Cream”. (see youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rpq6u8hYgk)
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (2:12 pm)No. Just no. I’ve had it with our ex-mayor Giuliani exploiting September 11th. We don’t need GM doing the same.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (2:15 pm)Any innovation takes time to get out the wrinkles. During this time the battery maker may squeeze out a few extra mpc and maybe engine engine noise can be fine tuned a little better. There’s so many things that can be tweaked that wouldn’t show up until the gen 2 Volt if given extra time. I think the schedule is very tight right now. The worst thing that could happen is that GM rush the Volt to market with glitches that could be caught with more time.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (2:19 pm)I wonder if the money could allow GM to release subsequent generation Volts sooner. Since later generation Volt should have lower cost batteries, that could allow GM to make a profit from the Volt sooner. (or invest more in energy storage/battery R&D for the same reason.)
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (2:23 pm)I agree 100%. Sept 11th should be off limits to exploitation. This date should live on its own, and any attempt to associate some “supposedly” meaningful corporation maneuver should be off limits. Period.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (2:25 pm)speculation ? nice thought but I don’t think it works that way
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Dec 9th, 2009 (2:27 pm)How did we get into 9/11 again ?
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (2:27 pm)Actually, I bet with $100 million they COULD affect the cost of gasoline temporarily in whatever area they choose to launch in ($100 million buys a notable amount of gasoline or oil). They could create a spot shortage and drive prices up, or make some deals with gas companies to partially pay for gas and drive prices down (Heck, I just remembered they tried something kind of like that offering to buy gas for a year for people who bought their SUVs back at the most recent gas crisis).
Of course, I think either would be a phenomenally bad idea, the former would backfire into a huge public relations nightmare and the latter would be just wrong headed.
Still, I thought I’d make a point that $100 million isn’t a trivial sum and they could do many different things with it.
Personally, I’d put whatever money they have into developing cost reductions for Gen 2. The first one seems to be doing just fine as it is.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (2:30 pm)Please listen to Sergio Marchionne speech to the Peterson Economic Institute, google the web, regarding the EU response to the auto situation. He says that over capacity of 30 million units per year exist of a 94 million world auto capacity. He compares the US biting the bullet and forcing bankruptcy and reorganization in less than a year versus the slow long drawn out bankruptcy and restructuring of the world Steel industry that took 30 years to occur.
Today the US Steel industry in the envy of the World. It is the lowest cost, most modern, and efficient Steel producer, now. Further, the adoption of steel recycling with enlarged high quality tool steel, electric arc furnaces, supplemented with basic steel making with basic oxygen process is startling. The remaining basic steel from ore, is now almost all modern basic oxygen created. But 95+% is recycled from the US scrap pile, that newly industrializing third world countries simply don’t have. Making new steel from 98% steel is cheaper than making steel from 2% iron ore.
People forget that the US addressed the auto industry over capacity problem in NA. GM and Chrysler stockholders were wiped out in the bankruptcy. Thousands of employees and dozens of plants were closed. Essentially thirty years of steel industry pain was condensed into three months of Hell for the NAFTA auto industry. Only Ford was not restructured and is buried in debt, but has not collapsed and may or may not survive without an eventual restructuring.
Marchionne says the EU has not addressed the problem at all. Germany has closed not a single auto plant, opened since WW II. He criticizes the EU countries and said he wishes that they would face the issue forthrightly, like America. Eventually, the EU had to adopt to the Steel industry restructuring, over 30 years and he says they are apparently taking the 30 years of Pain, auto route, on the steel industry model.
But that won’t wash, when American industry rapidly gets healthy, and joins with the emerging world auto industries the combination will completely destroy the crippled EU auto industry.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (2:39 pm)And the underweight preemie will likely have limits on his inteligence, or other bodily functions. Premature release of the VOLT will compromise Volt ‘Quality’ for all time. Or they could take the Tesla approach, and use its early custormers as engineering Beta testers.
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+3
Dec 9th, 2009 (2:47 pm)+1
Tag is grinning. Although I know that the Volt has to be *spot on* and therefore needs to receive all the time they need to birth it, I’ve been a LONG time advocate of the Independence Day release date. It’s just such a great symbolic time to release the car that can start that long journey away from foreign oil. *IF* it’s ready, let it loose! Even if needs a little more real world testing, do a tiny release of some “very near production” models into the capable hands of some of the maniacal fans, er, I mean advocates who reside here! I’m sure we could find some loving homes, with people who would truly love and care for these newborns!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Dec 9th, 2009 (2:53 pm)Whats up with all the + ratings today? (+50 for pdt @ post #1). Not a SINGLE negative post rating, even mine….
Is Lyle randomly giving +1’s to everyone? Even Statik managed to keep his post on the positive side!
Maybe an early Xmas present from Lyle to everyone.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (2:57 pm)Cheez, I think it was the opposite. Because many states can’t run deficits — not to get too technical but they’re a problem because they spend everything the bring in during good times and then cut in bad times which makes the cycle worse — if they didn’t get the money then jobs at the state and local level would end up being cut.
So unless you think that these people would spend nothing of their salary you have to say that the multiplier would be above 1. The higher percentage of their salary they spent the higher the multiplier. We should ask CJS if how much of his salary he spends on booze. He probably would give us a 2.3 multiplier! (Only kidding Captain).
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:01 pm)What it basically means is that they’re saying they don’t need a certain line of credit anymore. Personally, I think that’s a good sign, although possibly too optimistic.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:01 pm)Static, I post earlier, #65; “Incidentally, GM also got a $1.3 billion loan from Germany in support of its European unit.”
http://onthehillblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/gm-announces-it-will-pay-back-govt-loan.html
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (3:05 pm)I’m ready if Static is (lol). The winner gets a Volt and the loser…. well the loser is dead (g).
Seriously, Statik and I have had some really good “go arounds” since back in the days when he stridently insisted that the Volt wouldn’t get beyond vaporware. Then it was “missed goals” or “comfortably under 30K”. Some rounds went to him, but the *best* one will be when the first Volt actually gets into a consumer’s hands.
(and I know that Statik will be smiling too)
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:11 pm)Well said!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:11 pm)A little money to grease the skids and increase production would not be a bad thing. Moving the Date up to July fourth would make Tagament happy, though I agree GM should stay away from national pride and politics. I think they will have enough of a problem with the dark cloud of bailout overhead. Maybe September 16th instead?
I drove the wife to work in the Colorado, lots of snow. She is talking of trading the HHR, if only there was an AWD Voltec HHR Ranchero at a reasonable price…
Really, I just want to see a Volt on the dealer lot.
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+6
Dec 9th, 2009 (3:13 pm)Cut the absolutist BS propaganda. I am sure bin Laden just loves how split apart the USA is becoming and you are doing a stellar job of promoting that split.
We are one country and once you get beyond the talk you will find both parties here are remarkably similar in many ways.
The real news is that electrification will eventually eliminate our need for Middle East oil. Now let’s just not waste that by having a pointless civil war.
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (3:16 pm)tom.
the $1 spent to the state government kept a lot of their employees working rather than joining the unemployment insurance lines.
the $1 spent for a cash credit (i.e. tax rebate) has been doing exactly that.
Remember Obama is pro EV. What he has done doesn’t seem short sighted to me. It has enabled Go Volt! Go Volt!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (3:21 pm)I’d rather they NOT accelerate the rollout numbers because if there is something that needs to be addressed quickly in the initial vehicle release, it should only affect a small number of Volts. If they released 10K Volts and something unforeseen cropped up there’d be a real nightmare to deal with.
Get the creds with a limited, but very public INDEPENDENCE from foreign oil DAY release of a small number of Volts.
JMO
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:24 pm)I’m not understanding why national pride is a bad thing. I’m sure someone can help me understand.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:34 pm)I believe that this country has long been trying to conserve its bio fuel resources by importing those fuels. We need to be wise and not dollar foolish. Natural resources are finite and can easily be replaced; we’ll move from one fuel source to another until usable fuels are exhausted! The good news is the great number of jobs that the green economy is generating; it is the fastest growing employment sector. Fuel sources like the Sun and Wind are basically free for the taking; only an investment in equipment is needed; no waste products of significance; technological advances have been making them competitive with conventional fuel sources.
It appears to me that the country is moving in the right direction now toward a greener economy. We should use all domestic fuel sources available to stem the tide of currency flowing abroad but should continue to excell the use of freer sources of fuel such as solar and wind.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:36 pm)Yes! One per customer please.
NPNS!
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:44 pm)I have long thought that Tagamet’s suggestion to have an Independence Day release of the Volt has tremendous merit!
Independence Day is one of our most important holiday’s; tying the Volt inauguration to July 4th is exactly what GM should do. It would be a bold move!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:49 pm)I don’t see it coming to market any faster. GM is already getting great press from the Volt now . . . why spoil that with the inevitable let down that will happen when the full high price is announced, various problems pop up, losses from vehicle subsidies pile up, etc.
An imagined future vehicle can be perfect. A real vehicle can never live up to the perfectly imagined vehicle.
Don’t get me wrong . . . I greatly look forward to the Volt. But a cold hard reality is gonna smack a lot of people in the back of the head when the real car is launched.
EVs are still not economically practical. Their deployment must be done in a slowly phased in manner. If GM were to crank out a 100,000 Chevy Volts and ship them to dealers, it would be an unmitigated disaster since they are small and way too expensive for most people. The move to EVs is evolutionary (a slow & gradual change), not revolutionary (a violent sharp break from the past).
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:50 pm)If they have ANY cash, the board should pay back the bailout money. This would do more good for the company long term that releasing a car early.
There are still tons of Americans who are pissed about this and refuse to buy a car from GM because of it. If they want any hope of selling to this block of people, start paying it back.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:51 pm)Is that 14 a typo? They’ll have far more than 14 miles on them before they are sold as demo’s!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:52 pm)Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) was born 2 months premature, back in 1835, before they knew how to handle this well. He might have made a success of himself if his intelligence hadn’t been limited.
Albert Einstein was also a preemie – “I sometimes ask myself how it came about that I was the one to develop the theory of relativity. The reason, I think, is that a normal adult never stops to think about problems of space and time. These are things which he thought about as a child. But my intellectual development was slower, as a result of which I began to wonder about space and time only when I had grown up.”
Another “what might have been…”
As long as the lungs don’t fail, they have a good chance.
And a car is not a baby…
If being “first” or early is a factor, I’m just saying it is doable.
“Beta testers” or “first customers” – seems like a fine line. As I said, the “first customers” can be promised full updates to software, etc. at an agreed upon time.
Microsoft always scored analysts points by beating “expectations” – maybe selling the Volt in August will get some buzz. The methodical mid-November “launch” can proceed as planned. They just sell 100 or so early, and get in the history books as first EREV car sold this date. Maybe it will give bragging rights over the Nissan Leaf or whatever is rushed out next year.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (3:53 pm)In parts of the northeast, most home heating is done with #2 heating oil, which I’ve heard is pretty much the same stuff as diesel fuel. In those cases, the new windows would be closely analogous to the Volt.
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-7
Dec 9th, 2009 (4:00 pm)Ciao guys, I am bran-new to this website, but I have been searching for this forum for a very long time and I’m so grateful I finally got here.
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I am not exactly sure about how accurate the data given there is. If some people over here who have xp with these work can have a look and give your feedback in the thread it will be grand and I would extremely treasure it.
Thanks for reading this. You people rock.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:03 pm)I think the plan todate is sound. GM has been saying that they are taking their time and doing it right. 100 million is all wasted if they rush it and get it wrong. November is fine — continue to emphasize “doing it right”.
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+6
Dec 9th, 2009 (4:05 pm)That is really a great summary of how amazingly stupid people can be. They refuse to buy a GM because of the bail-out . . . thus GM will be more likely to fail. And since those people effectively own GM stock (since the government owns GM stock), those people will lose MORE money since the stock the government owns becomes worth less (or perhaps worthless). How amazingly stupid.
I can understand if they bought a non GM car because they like the other car more . . . but to actively discriminate against a GM car is just shooting yourself in the foot.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:10 pm)There’s nothing wrong with national pride. I love the United States. I believe that the US needs GM. Well, actually, we need a domestic auto industry. And, at this point, GM (and Ford) are probably the only domestic auto industry we’re ever going to get. So, we need GM.
I have no problem with GM appealing to our national pride. And a July 4th Volt release would be great PR. Unfortunately, I doubt GM could move up the release date that much without compramising quality. And I think it’s more important that they spend whatever time they think they need in development. (Within reason of course, no car released to the public has ever been perfected. Especially not in the first generation.)
But Sept. 11 is a very difficult memory for a lot of people. Me included. And for a privately owned company to use it as an advertising gimmic would offend a lot of people. If my initial emotional reaction is anything to judge by, any attempt by GM to use it to promote the Volt could backfire big time.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:10 pm)What GM needs to find in favor of increased production is definite verifiable demand for the Volt.
Building out the assembly lines takes time; systems must be checked and debugged so the final product meets quality standards, so the money can not be spent to speed up the production date. Early entry of the Volt can only happen if all the production equipment is fully tested and functional by the release date. I am hopeful but not sure that it can be done by July 4th.
In order for them to commit to higher production quantity, they need to know for sure that the demand is definitely showing to be real! An Independence Day showing of the Volt followed by taking buyers orders for the Volt, would allow them to set a production schedule to fill those orders. these vehicles could be designated as “Independence Day” issued Volts. Perhaps even an “Independence Day” logo on the body.
They could take down-payments for these special edition “Independence Day Volts” which would help their cash flow. These moneys would have to be held in escrow until delivery of the vehicle but would show up on the positive side of their ledger.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:13 pm)Ignoring the 14 mile aspect . . . a used Volt should lose value much SLOWER than an ordinary gas car. Two reasons:
1) Electric motors are much more reliable than mechanical gas motors. Thus, EVs require less maintenance and last longer.
2) As the price of gas continues to go up, up, up. (Which it will.) The value of the Volt’s gas-free first 40 miles will become increasingly more valuable.
We’ve already seen effect #2 . . . the value of old used compact cars went up when gas prices spiked while the value of Hummers and Fordzillas dropped through the floor.
The only wildcard here is the battery. If the batteries wear out faster than anticipated and require replacement, that will devalue the price of the used car. But if the 10,000 mile warranty is transferrable, this really should not be an issue.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:15 pm)I totally agree about 9/11 being off limits and was upset that someone even suggested it. And again I say that the Volt *has* to be spot on, but if it can be birthed on our Nation’s Birthday (even in very limited #’s) I’d certainly celebrate the event.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+4
Dec 9th, 2009 (4:20 pm)Uh . . . just to correct something here. Iran does NOT fund the Taliban nor Al-Qeada. Iran HATES the Taliban & Al-Qeada. Iran is Shiia whereas the Taliban & Al-Qeada are Sunni-extremists. In fact Iran nearly went to war with Afghanistan since the Taliban murdered some diplomats that Iran sent to Afghanistan a few years back.
Except for the fact that it has left them surrounded by US troops, Iran was quite happy to have the USA attack both Iraq and the Taliban & Al-Qeada in Afghanistan. Both of those were huge enemies of Iran.
Americans really need to know these things are else the will be suckered in by politicians pitching really bad wars & foreign policies.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:21 pm)Really????? Obama said that if the stimulus bill was passed we would not have over 7.9% unemployment.
What part of that makes you think “But it’s fair to say that the Obama Administration knows exactly what it’s doing on the stimulus”
????????????????????
This group of clowns has no Idea what they are doing.
Waste is not stimulus.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:21 pm)… and to underscore this, note that we didn’t see any clever ad campaigns linked to Pearl Harbor Day this week — and Pearl Harbor happened over 60 years ago. Some things are just beyond the bounds of good taste, and a commercial emphasis linked to 9/11 is one of them.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:25 pm)Amen!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+2
Dec 9th, 2009 (4:36 pm)At current gasoline prices, we are spending about$26 billion per month on foreign oil!!! So the faster we make the transition to electric vehicles, the better. You are absolutely right that this benefit “addresses our trade imbalance as well (how about instead of importing oil we export volts!).”
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:43 pm)#36 Statik said: How much they get out of Europe to offset these costs is still unknown…so they have to be really careful.
Actually that is older news…and Germany recalled that ‘bridge’ line of credit from GM after Opel went south, which GM repaid.
Loan cancelled:
http://www.bme.eu.com/news/german-anger-over-gm/
Loan repayed:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/industrials/article6929479.ece
GM is now currently soliciting about 2.7 billion Euros of aid from any countries with a Opel or Vauxhell plant (GM says they will put up 600 million Eurs as well).
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/dec2009/gb2009124_896763.htm
Anywhoo, my point was no one has a clue how much the Opel restructure is really going to cost (how could they?), estimates are from 3-3.3 billion EUR at the low end from GM and up to 10 billion EUR at the high end from some analysts.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:44 pm)you can google search all sort of evidience of Iran helping more so in Iraq but also in Afghanastan:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/02/two_views_of_irans_role_in_afg.asp
“Petraeus downplayed the significance of Iran’s support for the Taliban. But previous statements by military officials in Afghanistan have not been so kind. It is clear that Iran is supplying IED’s and antiaircraft weapons to the Taliban, and providing safe haven for senior al Qaeda and Taliban officials – at a minimum”
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:45 pm)The return on these energy saving fixes is much better than the one to one ratio you state. You are correct in that we need to curtail our spending on foreign oil in part because of where some of those dollar go ending up in terrorists hands but more importantly that we see over $26 billion per month leaving our economy rather than bolstering it.
On the other side of the table, not everyone can work in the automotive industry. Home construction needs a boost just like the one the automotive industry got. Those other people need work too.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:45 pm)The $100 mil is motivated at least in part for GM’s contribution to Administration’s recovery goals. The offer is as much to do with recognition of what VOLT means as with accelerating revenue. Put another way, there’s an unknown risk whether VOLT’s relevant in 2012. If that timeline can be pushed up to 2011 that risk is diminished obviously. Moreover, GM’s IPO sizzle is fanned by VOLT’s strong press – to the credit of VOLT leadership. Where would the cash be best placed? I vote for emphasis on American based intellectual property. Getting off OPEC’s treadmill and onto an Asia treadmill doesn’t solve big-buck outflow.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:50 pm)At least they are paying some interest on that amount and they are making good on paying it back!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
P.S. The TARP loans are working to save the automotive industry in the U.S.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (4:50 pm)We have indeed.
Although I have never said it was vaporware…I have always believed the program will see the light of day. Just not so much on the how, what and when, lol.
/happy to lose the ‘last one’ to you though, (=
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Dec 9th, 2009 (5:00 pm)I really hope that we get to actually *meet* someday (hopefully before Gen II). I’m still pulling for a VoltNation II – maybe, er, say July 4, 2010? I can pretty much guarantee a good turnout.
Be well my friend,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Dec 9th, 2009 (5:15 pm)One more reason to go with Tagamet’s excellent idea of An Independence Day Event for the Volt.
July 4th embodies everything this nation stands for. Having the event on September 11th would only recognize terrorism. Better to celebrate our freedom form dependence upon foreign oil. With so much money being spent on foreign oil and not on our economy, or social security balance, or on health care ( just a reminder $26 billion per month at todays gasoline prices), we need to recognize what the EV – Volt represents to everyone, not recognize those who left as with a bad memory.
The shift from carbon based to electric based economy and the freedom or independence from terrorism and foreign oil is what is important. It needs to be a celebratory event, not a vindictive one!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (5:25 pm)Statik,
Well technically speaking you did say “The Volt is vaporware”. See your post on Sept 5, 2008. (pasted below). But, you were repeating what was stated on gmfacsandfiction.com site. Sorry, just couldn’t help myself…
=================================================
This is one of the craziest PR things I have ever seen out of anyone…let alone GM: A whole website to respond to harsh criticisms. Launched fresh today!
http://gmfactsandfiction.com/
Exciting topics include:
gm is looking for a government bailout
gm vehicles are not as fuel efficient as comparable imports
the Volt is vaporware
gm can’t compete
gm still doesn’t make cars that people want to buy
…it’s like they are fighting against the wind
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Dec 9th, 2009 (5:29 pm)LRGVProVolt
Begrudgingly I am going to say your probably right. It just seems wrong, but I do see your point….I hate being wrong!
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Dec 9th, 2009 (5:30 pm)Hell must be freezing over because I find myself agreeing with everything stas peterson and statik are saying. LOL
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Dec 9th, 2009 (5:32 pm)That would be a good question for Lyle to ask..
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Dec 9th, 2009 (5:33 pm)I believe that they stated that they are a significant time ahead of the November 2010 schedule. Even though this may not be the case, in an earlier comment, I suggested that Tagamet’s idea of July 4th Independence Day release had merit.
The more I think about it, an “Independence Day Event for the Volt”. where GM has a nation-wind event showing the Volts at GM authorized dealers and taking buyers orders with a down-payment is the way to spend the $100 million. The Volts that are being tested now can have their software optimized to the latest update so that buyers can experience electric drive and see how well GM has engineered this vehicle. They can then order the car for future delivery with an improvements made along the way to production added. These Volts can be special production editions; “Independence Day Volts” with an emblem on the body to identify this edition.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (5:50 pm)Ah, you’ve been to Wisconsin, then.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:00 pm)OT….
B of A is paying back the govt loans…
http://www.kcra.com/money/21910125/detail.html
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:01 pm)Jaime, you must have not read all the comments before your post.
http://onthehillblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/gm-announces-it-will-pay-back-govt-loan.html
Part of the cash they have is being used to pay back part of the TARP loans. They have said the loans may be paid back four years sooner. This is evidence that the administration plans to save GM may very well be working. IMHO, they will regain the world leading position they once held.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:05 pm)How about using some of the reported $100m GM surplus funds to buy the lithium battery pack for the first Volt buyers, in other words include the battery at no cost for the early adopters. That combined with the federal rebate of $7,500. brings the Volt’s purchase price down to a level that’s far more competitive.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:06 pm)ooops. meant to say carbon based fuels.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:25 pm)Bill R. yesterday discussed something about Dexron VI for motor cooling, (I am supposing for the Volt).
My question is, if anyone knows, is Dexron VI going to be used for cooling the motor as well as performing the functions of forward, neutral, reverse hydraulic functions as well? Does anyone have that answer?
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:25 pm)You obviously are not one of the automotive workers that would be laid off if not for the TARP loans. Just look at what is happening with the Volt as an indication of this administrations success. The administration is right on target with GM.
Go Volt! Go GM! Go Obama!
Happier trails to you ’til we meet again/
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:27 pm)Many people are VERY upset about the bailout. Government Motors, Obama Motors, etc. I personally view it as Union Dollars well spent, however other folks do not see it that way. GM has to provide a good product to win these people over, if they ever can. Sure I would like Red White and Blue Volts. I am very happy that they will be made in America. Someday the bailout will fade away, and the sooner people forget about it the better. I just think that if the Volt warps itself in the flag, people will think Government Motors. Intellectually, we all (trolls excluded) on GM-Volt.com know that the Volt is a great thing and very good for the old USA!
Just my humble opinion, no polls taken.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:28 pm)Now, you want to change the Volt program with $100 mil? 2.5 mil free Volts on the road will do the trick.
Math: with $100,000,000 for the Volt program could GIVE AWAY 2,500,000 Volts (@$40,000 each). Am I missing something or has GM just lost their mind? I mean, it sure would accomplish their goal of converting the car industry to electric…but seriously? Throwing around $100 mil?
How do these companies stay afloat with management like that…oh wait, never mind…
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:28 pm)Maintain present course and speed.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:33 pm)JEC,
Thanks for the research! I really didn’t think I made that up, but as you said technically statik was quoting that “whole website to respond to criticism”(wink). Thank goodness Lyle established this incredible forum within which to hold the debate.
Be well,
Tagamet
/Independence Day or Bust
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:36 pm)When I talked to the Warranty Dept at the Chevy Store here, he said that the Volt warranty would indeed be transferrable.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:40 pm)Ah, that would be; The Volt WRAPS itself in the Flag.
Patriotism is OK, It is just the politics that bother me.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:49 pm)I figured that that was a typo. It happens. Although I wouldn’t suggest a Flag colored Volt, it’d be because I respect the Flag.
The Volt is way beyond politics – the success of this site is proof. We come from ALL political stripes here, but we’re largely united behind the Volt. Granted, sometimes things get a little OT on political topics, but at the end of the day, we *all* look forward to tomorrow’s article from Lyle.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Dec 9th, 2009 (6:52 pm)I was going by the dates that the articles were published. The one I sited was dated Nov. 16th. those that you sited are dated Nov.4th and Nov 24th. I concede that the Paul Kiel may have mistated the info.
I understood your point on your first post. We will just have to wait and see how it all develops.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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+1
Dec 9th, 2009 (6:57 pm)Amen to that Tag!
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+5
Dec 9th, 2009 (7:04 pm)I’m assuming you got this information from one of those news sources devoted to subtly altering realty in order to sell a preconceived narrative. Obama said this? No he didn’t. What you’re referencing is an economic white paper authored by members of the Obama Transition Team in December of 2008. Not only was it written before the magnitude of the recession was clear and before Obama was President, the purpose of the white paper was not to predict the actual unemployment rate but to show, by contrasting the unemployment rates with and without a stimulus package, why “a” stimulus package — not the stimulus package which passed BTW — would be useful. http://otrans.3cdn.net/45593e8ecbd339d074_l3m6bt1te.pdf
What Obama has actually said, after passage of the actual stimulus bill, was that he expected unemployment to reach 10% before the end of this year. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/07/politics/main5224557.shtml
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Dec 9th, 2009 (7:30 pm)errr… math is a good thing friend
100,000,000 divided by 40,000 is… 2,500.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (7:35 pm)Sorry, your just plain wrong
Statistically Speaking, “Premies” on average have lower IQ, worse Health, lower acchievement, and in general suffer on many shorter end of the stick issues.
Maybe thats because of the variety of causes and the relatively high survival rate today, but just because 1 or 2 successful people were premies doen’t mean than on average premies stand a lower chance of success.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (8:06 pm)Well if it is the 4th, thats no good for me, lol. I just cleared those days with the family. WSOP schedule just got leaked a few days ago, and I’ll be playing a warmup tourney on July 1st (event 54), then the Main Event starts July 5th, I’ll be probably go on Day 1B on the 6th. Although if we are taking a poll on a location for VoltNation II… I’ll vote for Vegas, lol.
I’m also going (as always) to the NAIAS in January if your going to head north for a ‘auto road trip’ Not sure what day yet…I’m leaving it open just in case GM schedules something ‘twirlly’
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Dec 9th, 2009 (8:08 pm)Combining the last three sentences of the topic, if $100M were to be used to accomplish something useful for GM, and, Lyle’s question:
So what does getting Volts into the hands of consumers sooner mean?
If every poster here were to be asked to fill out a questionaire as to why they think they would be able to do something useful for GM in getting a Volt sooner, what do you think might be the criteria for GM making available to you a Volt for purchase if there were to be some sort of selection process for only 2,500 Volts?
What might you do to convince GM to process/approve your questionaire ahead of others?
One of the things I’d do is ask an open question. It would be;
“How many ways can I make my ownership of a Volt work in the very best ways for GM?”
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*** THAT’S WHAT I’D DO TO TRY TO GET APPROVED. ****
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What would you do if you wanted and could possibly buy a Volt sooner?
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Dec 9th, 2009 (8:19 pm)Lol…I laughed.
Ok, let me rephrase, I have had a post saying containing the words, “the Volt is vaporware,’ however as I recall that was purely a ‘cut & paste’ scenario direct from GM’s website, indicating their selected topics to debunk, hehe.
I therefore change my official position to I have issued no commentary of my own insinuating that the Volt was not going to happen.
/I see your split hair, and raise you a quarter of a hair. (=
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Dec 9th, 2009 (8:21 pm)Wow, I’d give a kidney to even *see* a live WSOP tourney. My dad, at one point, quit his job working on the railroad to sell the cars he won playing cards. My mom almost left, but that’s another story.
There’s a small chance I could save enough to get to an event like NAIAS. A lot depends on the timing (and the amount of work I can get between now and then. I want to be prepared for *something* “twirly” though!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Dec 9th, 2009 (8:28 pm)I’d write a better Volt song than the one from this week and let them use it.
Well, at least I’d TRY to write a better one.
(Honestly, when I described the song to my wife she pointed out that was totally wrong. She said they should get Bruce Springsteen to do something more along the lines of a “Born in the USA” type song and I have to admit that when I think about it, she’s probably right. Personally, I’d still prefer something techno, though.
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Dec 9th, 2009 (8:30 pm)Aha! I’d also like to say that by copy and pasting JEC’s coments, that I copy and pasted from GM’s facts and fiction site, you also have now said, ‘the Volt is vaporware’
How could you say that Tag? I’m shocked!
(dang I should have lead with this one…stupid edit timeout)
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