GM has just announced what we have all assumed, California will be the first US state to get the Chevy Volt late next year. The automaker has selected and will be selecting other markets as well. GM vice chairman Bob Lutz said in his keynote address, “some other lead markets will be announced in the next few weeks.”
GM is also parterning with three California utilities and EPRI to do a real world Volt demonstration project. They will be using a $30 million DOE grant for the study which will involve providing 100 Chevy Volts for a two year study fleet beginning in early 2011. The vehicles will use OnStar to provide perfromance usage and analytic data in real-time. 500 charging stations will also be installed in business, public, and residential locations.
The three utilities are Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Edison and Sacramento Municipal Utility District. The learning will be used to improve future driver’s ownership experiences with electric cars.
“It is natural that California is the lead market for Volt. Not only is it the largest automotive market, Californians are known to be leaders in adopting groundbreaking new technologies,” said Brent Dewar, GM vice president, Global Chevrolet Brand.
Source (GM)
This entry was posted on Wednesday, December 2nd, 2009 at 10:35 am and is filed under Launch, Marketing. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
+6
Dec 2nd, 2009 (10:39 am)No surprise here.. and its fair: they are eager to be early adopters.
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+11
Dec 2nd, 2009 (10:43 am)No surprise. What was surprising is that they won’t announce the other areas yet.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (10:44 am)That’s great news and I would be anxious to have one of the first 100 test vehicles for coastal California. I already have the one and only license plate THE VOLT and could demo this car from Ventura with weekly trips north to Santa Barbara and south to Thousand Oaks/Weslake. This is the perfect mileage range and conditions for a high profile audience.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (10:50 am)Good news. However, you should reread your post. It is hard to read, or perhaps it was me not drinking any coffee yet.
//Karl
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (10:57 am)Yea, verily. I thought we would get something more definitive than this.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (10:58 am)Great, so can GM NOW set up a PRE-ORDER system? or do they need to hold another press conference to announce the dealerships? When everyone knows what they are going to do, they should just do it already and get the orders rolling.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:01 am)What about the other market areas?
I was under the impression that the entire roll-out plan would be announced today.
Well, let’s see what Lutz has to say in ‘the speech’.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:01 am)Florida? Please?
Lucky stiffs on the West coast…we need some on South East Coast!
GM?
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:04 am)Lyle, when will your dealer list be made visible? I’ve got to believe that some have already applied, but not yet been cleared?
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:14 am)“According to a report from Automotive News, GM is currently in the process of selecting which markets will get first crack at the Volt when it finally goes on sale in just under one year’s time. Chevrolet division President Brent Dewar said that the automaker is looking at a number of factors to determine those unannounced target markets, including the existence of an EV charging infrastructure and available tax credits.”
From auto blog green.
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+16
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:16 am)So the message here is that the Volt requires a lot of work with the utility companies before it is ready for prime time.
I guess I should delay purchasing a Volt then, since the utility infrastructure is not ready…
This is exactly the wrong message for GM to send!
Why does GM keep shooting themselves in the foot?
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+10
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:21 am)Actually, by working with the utility companies, they’re handing an advantage to their competitors. SIne the Volt doesn’t need the infrastructure, and the Leaf, Tesla, etc. does.
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+3
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:32 am)Thanks for your positive response. +1
As always, we’ve got the money saved up. Bring it!
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+4
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:34 am)I’ve cut my electricity use enough over the past 18 months to charge a Volt 66 times a month. But somehow I doubt northern Maine is on GM’s list…
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:35 am)Congrats, Noel Park.
Wow are you lucky. I expect you to give us all rides around the block.
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+10
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:37 am)“Californians are known to be leaders in adopting groundbreaking new technologies,” said Brent Dewar, GM vice president”
Ironically says the man from Detroit, where apparently they are known to not adopt groundbreaking technologies. I know that this is standard PR bs talk, but geez, it makes it sound like the rest of the country is a bunch of ludites or lemmings. Other parts of the country like new technology too.
Am I just getting too easily offended?
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+3
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:38 am)Great for California! Not unexpected since they have been supportive of electric cars for so long.
Here’s hoping for Austin, TX to be one of the other markets selected… The city has a very conservation-minded municipal electric utility that is a driver behind renewable energy and plug-in vehicles: http://www.pluginpartners.org/
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+4
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:41 am)I agree:
the study which will involve providing 100 Chevy Volts for a two year study fleet using OnStar to provide analytic data. 500 charging stations will also be installed in business, public, and residential settings.
This is just icing on the cake.
Maybe it will provide information for cities to make electric cars more attractive in 5 to 10 years – it has little to do with the Volt buyer in 2011, and will only confuse the issue.
If you want to do “studies”, do it quietly. Don’t announce it as if it is important to potential Volt buyers.
The message should be – “have extension cord, will travel.”
Bring the car home, plug it into any outlet overnight, drive 40 miles gasoline-free tomorrow.
(and when the battery is drained, you can drive on gasoline)
I really don’t care if my local zoo is considering putting in “fast chargers” in 2016.
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+6
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:42 am)I’d just like to add that Lyle forgot to highlight the most important/breaking information from GM’s Volt announcement today:
Beginning December 4th at the LA autoshow, “Chevrolet will also introduce a new Volt song designed to educate and entertain consumers….”
/can’t wait
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:42 am)I don’t understand what this means as far as a timetable for when the rest of this country will be able to walk in to a dealership and buy a Volt. Does that mean CA will get Volts before November 2010 before mass rollout? When can I get mine? Late 2010? 2011? 2012? My patience is wearing thin. All I know is that my Ohio Chevy dealer is taking names for a list for when GM allows them to take “Sold Orders”. I just want to know when that will be.
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+3
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:44 am)I beleive there are several reasons for CA to get the first Volts:
1) CA mandated zero emission vehicles years ago (EV1). The Volt approaches a ZEV (partial ZEV or PZEV).
2) So. CA has the worst air quality in the country – they NEED this car.
3) Traffic in CA is very congested, so the Volt is well suited to this type of driving cycle.
4) Incomes are higher in CA than many other regions, so more people can afford to purchase Gen 1 at ~ $40K.
5) CA has passed legislation to reduce GHG emissions.
6) The local utilities will work to provide infrastructure, helping GM possibly get a PZEV rating of some type for the Volt.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:59 am)Fret not, fellow hinterlanders. I offer the following as a public service: You make all the arrangements with a dealership in California, and I will personally drive your new Volt to your home, anywhere in North America. I ask only reimbursement of my airfare to California and from your home.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:02 pm)500 charing stations? I don’t want my Volt blown up and left a charred hunk of metal!
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:03 pm)Just to add to BillR’s list of reasons, all of which are good one:
7) climate means that there is less stress on the vehicle in general and the battery pack in particular. This was the reason why the EV1 was sold primarily in CA. The larger cities like SF or LA or SD just don’t get very hot or very cold and there isn’t a lot of snow and ice.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:07 pm)“I will personally drive your new Volt to your home, anywhere in North America.”
Nice of you to offer, but I want to be the first one putting miles on my Volt. I’m funny that way. It may be 1000 miles until I let my wife drive it.
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+3
Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:10 pm)“leaders in adopting groundbreaking new technologies”, huh?
Well, let’s see – what other places around the nation lead in adopting groundbreaking new technologies, and have the resources to pay for that research and development?
Seattle, WA – Miami, FL – New York, NY – Boston, MA – Dictrict of Columbia – Houston TX. Those are my guesses. (I’m sorry to all those in “flyover country”, but groundbreaking research – into corn production – probably won’t make the cut).
Whether Chicago, IL will be included, just to impress the President – who knows? GM owes the govt big time for the bailout. Time will tell.
In the meantime, let’s all give CA a big hand – as the first state to officially be designated as one of the states to sell the first Volt production run. Congradulations, California !
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+4
Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:19 pm)“They will be using a $30 million DOE grant for the study which will involve providing 100 Chevy Volts for a two year study fleet beginning in early 2011.”
That’s bullsh|t!
Just sell every car to the people!
WTF?
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:20 pm)I live an hour from where the Volts are made, but my SWAG of when I’ll get to drive one is Fall 2011/Spring 2012. So for the next 2 years, I plan to continue to drive my current car and keep saving my cash. By 2012, GM should be on Gen 2/3. I’m looking forward to the continuous improvement.
(I’ll also continue to monitor/contribute to this webpage. I think the California drivers will probably do most of the contributing though)
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:21 pm)lol……ditto here. You can shake my hand and give me the keys but I am going to be the one putting the first miles on it.
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+4
Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:24 pm)Lemme guess, it’s dedicated to OPEC and it’s called “Turn out the lights…..the party’s over”?
YEEEEEHAAAAW!!!!
GO Volt.
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!!!
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+2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:27 pm)How do I sign up? I live in So Cal Edison territory and have 3600 Watts of Solar Panels on my roof top which produces more than 16 KW of power a day even at this time of year. In addition my daily commute is 38 miles round trip. I even have a 240 volt panel in my garage.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:28 pm)#15
Well thanks, bit I fear that it’s a long hard road from this to actually having a car in the garage. If Bob Lutz takes over as you suggested, my name will probably go as far down the list as it’s possible to get, LOL. Rides around the block? You betcha!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:29 pm)Hey Noel, now it’s a matter of WHICH dealer will get them first. I’m gonna make my rounds to the Chevy dealers and put my name on every list if any. Yeah, I can’t afford till Gen 2 but I WANNA TEST DRIVE!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:29 pm)An uninspired decision.
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+3
Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:30 pm)Exactly.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:31 pm)After all the anticipation of being number 112 on a years long waiting list! Kiss my grits GM. You committee run companies never have gotten anything right from the protection of your investors to your non employee GM customers. Goodbye Forever!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:33 pm)#19
Hey, if it’s as successful as “Sure is fine my 409″, or “Shut Down”, it could work. “Little GTO” didn’t hurt either, as least for awhile, LOL. Remember the Honda song in the late ’50s? “You meet the nicest people on a Honda.” It got a LOT of credit for putting Honda on the map.
Alas, I’m so far behind the music scene now that I wouldn’t have a clue who to suggest. Anybody I could think of would be about as up to date as Bob Lutz, hehehe.
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+2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:35 pm)Right!
What’s important here is the message that the general public perceives.
GM doing research with utility companies is fine, as long as its kept quiet.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:49 pm)OT…
I was looking at pics of the Cruze and doesn’t it look like a Mazda 3?
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+3
Dec 2nd, 2009 (12:59 pm)yes. I dont understand why so many of you are up in arms because you won’t be able to get the Volt in 2010. The Leaf will be just as hard to come by as well. It will probably take until 2012 before the majority of the nation has access to the Volt and thats not bad for a brand new technology.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:02 pm)#28
The way I see it, that’s about the soonest most of us in CA can hope for as well. There just won’t be that many to go around, and I doubt that they send them ALL to CA anyway. Maybe the 1st few hundred.
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+4
Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:03 pm)This is just plan petty and absolutely ridiculous. Because your state is not the first one to get a Volt you act like a little girl? Give me a break, you were not likely to purchase the Volt any way. Good riddance.
Edit: Not to mention the so called waiting list you are on has nothing to do with GM, this site belongs to Lyle not GM get over your self.
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+2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:05 pm)The hype machine is starting up. The new Prius plug-in will be in the news in the next few months and maybe we can get some head-to-head runs (Prius vs. Volt).
It will be a great competition where everyone wins. More media will get in on the race and that means more people will be aware of the coming products.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:06 pm)#33
I dunno man, my Chevy dealer just gives me a blank stare every time I ask about a list. They just say “No list until we know when we’re getting cars.” I guess that can change at any time, but that’s all I’m hearing now.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:07 pm)This, well said!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:10 pm)#38
I respectfully disagree. Any ink is good ink in my experience. Plus, if it gives me more places to “opportunity charge”, I’m all for it. If the BEV guys can sell cars, more power to them (no pun intended). I’ll believe it when I see it.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:12 pm)#43
Right! +1
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:12 pm)..like, for example, all the snow there is in Florida.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:13 pm)Amen to that! Austin has ranked as one of the greenest cities in the US for awhile now. Austin Utility has bought Wind power for years, and is building a small solar power farm as well. Although, I do not know if any charging points have been installed here- but then, I unfortunately have not had a need to look yet;-)
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:15 pm)NO I was thinking the same thing. Lets see I get to see Volts everyday here in Milford, Mi. But we are not going to be able to buy one???????
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:16 pm)“GM has just announced we have all assumed, California will be the first US state to get the Chevy Volt late next year…” and the sun will rise in the east tomorrow
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+5
Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:17 pm)______________________________________________________
From Lyle’s Post:
“…They will be using a $30 million DOE grant for the study which will involve providing 100 Chevy Volts for a two year study fleet beginning in early 2011…”
———–
Let’s do some math on that:
100 Chevy Volts X $42,000 Full MSRP = $4,200,000
500 fixed charging stations (installed) X $10,000 = $5,000,000
Total Hard Cost = $9,200,000
DOE Project Funding = $30,000,000
Question: What in the heck is the remaining of my $20,800,000 being used for in this “real world Volt demonstration project”?
______________________________________________________
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:21 pm)It’s for the statistitions/beancounters to collect the data and “Prettify” it in graphs and pie charts in a Power Point presentation all just to show us what we all know already……
We will use less petrol and the grid can take it.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:22 pm)Please also add that Californians are such modest, humble people, nothing like those brash Michiganders
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+2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:29 pm)30 million could be 3,750 more cars with an $8,000 cash credit. Cash Credit is the best way to push the technology. Goverments got to stop burning money by deciding how it should be spent.
The Utility companies can figure this out on their own. The first step is they need to as an industry start replacing all home meters to support the 3 tier charging (night, day, peak). If they start now they can be done with that in 20 years. In fact the government should mandate that within 20 years all utilities provide day/nite/peak rating.
Once folks realize they can save money running their dryer and dishwashers in the evening, we’ll be on our way to lower electric rates. Then once there are many millions of EVs on the roads the utilities can start figuring out how to provide lower rates to cars that let the utility control when the charging is done.
This will all happen on its own, but all that is needed now is to speed the adoption and development affordable EVs. Hence why any money the government can afford to throw around should go to EV Cash credits.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:31 pm)I find it ironic that the state that helped birth and kill the last electric car is first on the list for roll-out of this electric car.
It’s like a bad relationship…
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:32 pm)I’m still trying to find out if we get any.
We’re still hoping…
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:37 pm)I wonder what the other locations are. Will GM follow Nissan and sell cars in areas where public charging infrastructure is being developed – Portland, Seattle, Nashville ?
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+2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:47 pm)Well since the tax credit will be phased out after 250,000 plugins of any kind, I wonder what the rest of the schedule looks like. I’ll pass on the car if I don’t get the tax benefit because California took all of it.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:51 pm)Dude, the first years run will have only ~12,500 and the next years is ~60,000. I doubt the 250,000 will be reached in 2 years. Currenty, I think Tesla is getting these rebates but I heard only 500 have been delivered.
So you’ll be aight with the rebate for 2 years.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:53 pm)In other news, November sales are out. Compared with November last year, Ford’s up .1%. Toyota’s up 2.6%. GM’s down 2%. And Chrysler’s down a whopping 26%. Hyundai’s up 46.. Overall, the sale rate was the highest this year except for the cash for clunker months, and basically was the same as last year.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107104574569772964000280.html?mod=article-outset-box
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/business/02auto.html?scp=2&sq=ford&st=cse
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+2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:57 pm)I have to agree. I am kind of insulted by those remarks. You know, in Ohio, we have flush toilets, and lights with switches ON THE WALL!!!!!
We should also not forget that California also has the highest debt of any state in the nation, so I am sure the state government will be ready to pay for setting up charging stations all over the place. And wasn’t it California that had all the rolling blackouts a few years ago, because they refuse to let any new power stations be built there??? So for sure, we should put the first electric cars in a state where they do not have the available power……..
Sorry, I just think it is a bad way to start the Volt program!
JMHO
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+2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:58 pm)Oh, man, I don’t like the announcement of partnering with the utility companies for a very selfish reason. In my area, if you buy an electric car, the power company REQUIRES you to take schedule E9 which I’ve ranted about before but it roughly translates to being totally screwed by PG&E. Why? Because then they get to pay you nothing for the solar power you’re producing, charge you a fortune for the power you use when it’s dark and you’re home using power (and demand is still pretty low) and give you a tiny little discount on your power in the middle of the night (when there is no demand). Frankly, it would add several thousand dollars per year to the cost of the vehicle if they force me to switch from E7 to E9.
I was hoping the Volt would be treated more like a regular car and I could slip under the radar there.
Bummer.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (1:59 pm)I think the least California should do in response is let the Prius HOV stickers expire, and issue new ones for the Volt. (And other comparable plug-ins as well as BEVs.)
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:06 pm)all you guys have to do is take a flight to LA at the right time and buy your Volt.. then drive it home. Warranty for the first few months might be dicey but this car is being tested and fined tuned to nth degree by GM, you will be fine. Enjoy your parade in your Victory Red Volt all the way back home, you will meet lots of people.
You may even get the extended California battery warranty for all your troubles.
Corvetteman, we can do this right?
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:09 pm)Debt is a nice word. We in CA have a toilet full of $$$ that the high govt mucky mucks regularly flush with the switch on the wall.
The rolloing blackouts is why we need this car……lol. We need the genset to keep my MGD COLD!!!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:10 pm)#54
Why thanks!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:11 pm)Don’t laugh, it just snowed here today in Dallas, TX!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:15 pm)I guess it is time for a new contest!!!
We need some lyrics for the new song!
Sung to the old Chevy See The USA tune:
“See Californ-eye-A in a Chevrolet,
‘Cause the rest of us are just too dumb and poor….
Maybe by thirteen,
Your local dealer will be,
Allowed to get one sent right right to your door!”
That is my start – keep it going!!!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:16 pm)#64
Amen Sister! Preach on!!!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:22 pm)What about the number of cars they will produce for consumer purchase in 2010?
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:24 pm)When we were speculating about a year ago about the order of States in line to get the Volt, I said something to the effect that GM may try to use the Volt’s thunder to bend the hearts and minds of EV1 haters, and go to California first. I also said that this would send the wrong message to the rest of the country: “Oh, another “California Only” car. Big whoop.”
The irony is that GM will never erase the bad taste many Californians have for them over the EV1 debacle. For that, they need at least a generation of successful electric vehicles.
And besides, California always gets the cool stuff.
“It is natural that California is the lead market for Volt. Not only is it the largest automotive market, Californians are known to be leaders in adopting groundbreaking new technologies.”
… just as it’s “natural” for middle America to be staid and untinteresting? Just as it’s “natural” for the deep South to be backward? Once established, these perceptions have a tendancy to be self-fulfilling with no further facts being considered (FULL DISCLOSURE: I live in the deep South. Attention Detractors: Cape Kennedy and Houston want to have a word with you).
Bitter? Just a tad. But then again, it’s not like I can get an early Volt anyway.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:29 pm)Have fun paying your dealer markups Cali!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:31 pm)That is OK with me. It makes sense. My only concern is how fast they expand the market.
A couple years ago I would have bought the Honda natural gas Civic, but it was only available in California and there were no plans to expand that vehicle to other markets. It had a 200 mile range and an in garage charger and would have totally got me off of gas, I just couldn’t buy one because it was only available in California.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:31 pm)If G.M. is concerned about infrastructure, why not follow Nissan. Nissan is contracted to install chargeing stations in 5 major areas of the U.S. in 2010. Does anyone know how many units will receive the full 7500 tax credit? I don’t think alot of people will buy any ev or erev with out the credit.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:38 pm)Is this why they fired Henderson so can can set up a test fleet of 100 cars. What does this mean if its over two years. That they are still testing the volt and it won’t go in to production. Is this the first step to another EV1 . Did Bush and all his oil buddies get to GM right under Obamas’s nose.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:45 pm)Well I have 6020 Watts of solar panels on my roof, so I qualify for 6020 / 3600 = 1.67 Volts (and please don’t hand me a D cell!).
BTW, 16 KWH per day means you’re getting a daily multiplying factor of 4.44 (effective hours), which is quite good for this time of year. I’m getting a factor of about 3.9 due to a winter chimney shadow problem, but it soars up to about 6.5 on sunny summer days. This is in San Jose, CA.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:46 pm)Here’s my beef. I have always heard that the Volt will be available in November 2010. There was never an asterisk saying “limited availability”. In other words, GM has not managed our expectations very well. I have been willing to give this car company one more chance, but if I have to wait two years AFTER Nov. 2010 and can’t promise I won’t jump ship to the latest car technology that is available in my area. That’s not being whiny, it’s a fact.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:46 pm)I think you keep shooting yourself in your foot. You just don’t understand what is happening with the National Grid. There is a coalition of partners to develop the next advancement in our national grid. DOE is part of this group that enables the studies to be done. Charging stations for EVs are only a part of the effort. The creation of a Smart Grid requires careful planning and these studies will help design the equipment. The Federal Government regulates the electrical industry throughout the U.S. with the exception of Texas. the administration sees that the modernization of our infrastructure (electric grid, bridges, dames, roadways) needs to be upgraded and repaired. GM is just taking advantage of the DOE grants as are Nissan with the Leaf, and major cities where the Leaf will initially be marketed. The $30 million grant given to the California utilities mentioned is small compared to what Seattle and other locations received. The whole project is being done to see how the various EVs will impact the grid.
So you see that they are not sending a message at all, other than co-operating with the ongoing study to modernize the national grid.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:47 pm)Actually Seattle should have been first to get the Volt because we are just cooler than $#!+ up here, and smarter than everyone else too.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:53 pm)The 250k limit is per manufacturer so the rebate will be available until GM has sold 250k Volts or other vehicles that qualify. This is why I’ve said Gen II might be a good buy — the cost should be down 10K and you’ll still get the rebate. I don’t think GM has any plans to sell 250k Gen I Volts.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:55 pm)I think it’s primarily about density. Calfornia’s more densely populated, and has the largest auto market in the country. This way they can maximize cars per dealership. That reduces transaction costs. And dealership training costs.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (2:59 pm)E9 is separately metered, isn’t it? IOW the EV is on the E9 schedule on a separate meter and the remainder of the house is on whatever other schedule you have on the existing meter. I’d have to go back and look again but my recollection is that E9 is an cost advantage regardless of whether you have a solar system.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (3:02 pm)Just thought I would wade in here. The 30 million is only to be used for early cars to ‘develop, analyze, and demonstrate’ etc. not infrastructure.
Under terms of the deal GM produces 125 corporate fleet and 500 for consumer and gets the 30 million.. The 100 announced today are part of that first 125. (I’m guessing the other 25 are made up from GM’s previous daliances/PR work in Northern Virginia, DC, etc…maybe a few more to come.) So GM is essentially get paid twice to make them- $48K per copy from the US…and whatever they decided to hock them to the consumer for.
Also, GM has already said that the no added capacity, or earlier production was coming online because of this grant. If anything the government grant threatens the ‘really’ real production start as the first 625ish are special program/captive sales to select buyers in exchange for data swap and promotion.
/government in action
#81 DonC: Re: Rebates — Heck I’m here, might as well comment… not big thing in the grand scheme of things really, but I just thought I would mention that they moved the number on full rebates from 250,000 to 200,000 when they went from industry wide to per-manufacturer. They also dropped the expiry date on the program at the same time, but kept the quarterly scale down of the program past the 200K figure. Q1/Q2@50%, Q3/Q4@25% under revised plan ARPA2009 (which modifies the old EIEA2008)
Anyone still awake after that? My apologies.
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+2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (3:04 pm)Here in Portland, Or.
VOLT? LEAF? VOLT? LEAF? VOLT? LEAF?
COMPLEX SIMPLE COMPLEX SIMPLE COMPLEX SIMPLE
SOME GAS NO GAS SOME GAS NO GAS SOME GAS NO GAS
only car 2nd car only car 2nd car only car 2nd car
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (3:29 pm)Thanks for the report. Are you a little jet lagged? Spelling is bad today.
parterning
perfromance
charing
Thanks
John C. Briggs
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (3:53 pm)Leaf vs. Volt is definitely the big questions! It’s going to come down to price I think. Yes the Volt can be driven all over the place, but the Leaf has plenty of charge to get 95% of Californians anywhere they want to go all day long. 100 purely electric miles is awfully tempting! I’m buying one of these cars next year, we’ll see who makes a more tempting offer!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (3:56 pm)It’s not usually separately metered. I quote from PG&E’s connection rules ( http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_RULES_2.pdf ):
Section A, subpart 6:
“Service to an applicant is normally established at one delivery point, through one meter, and at one voltage class. Other arrangements for service at multiple service delivery points, or for services at more than one voltage class, are permitted only where feasible and with the approval of PG&E.”
So, yeah, technically possible but I’ve not heard of a case where PG&E didn’t want to force the users on to E9 because it’s a much better deal for them. They really hate E7.
In a nutshell, E7 doesn’t correlate as strongly to peak usage, it correlates a little more closely to peak sunshine hours. So, E7 rates are high from noon until 6pm. E9 peak hours are from 2pm to 9pm. Solar peak with DST is about 1pm. In the late summer, I can’t produce enough power to sell after 5pm so I just run on batteries for an hour. Moving peak to 2 pm from noon effectively eliminates the 2 most productive hours (12 to 2) and extends the non-production hours an additional 3 hours. This is horrible. Also the baseline quantity is the same as E7, so if you go over your baseline (which you probably will with the same baseline and an EV) you pay almost exactly the same for power in the off peak as you do with E7 currently.
So, even though I produce the same amount of power, I will be paid significantly less for it, and have to pay significantly more for the power that I use in the evening. (That’s about a 3x multiplier between peak and non-peak).
I also note with some dismay that the wording for E-9 has been revised since the last time I looked at it and it is now REQUIRED for all customers with a BEV or PHEV and optional for NGV. Hmmm, although reading further it also sounds like they may be allowing E9 on a separate meter as they now have a rate A and rate B where rate B is available to customers with a separate meter for the vehicle.
That’s still kind of lame. It will cost me a couple thousand more bucks to put in more wiring and FSE for another meter. But at least it won’t be a recurring cost.
Of course, they may pull all the current time of use rates away after the smart meters come. They’re hinting at that.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (4:17 pm)Thanks for the tax credit info. Sounds like we may as well get comfortable. Maybe I’ll save up and get the Infiniti ev after all.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (4:26 pm)They both are going to be about the same I think.. the Leaf perhaps more because of the larger battery pack.. the genset in the Volt is the cost question.. the ICE part of it probably under $1000 and the generator that it drives plus the controller perhaps $2000 or so ($1k for the 50kw generator and $1k for the controller).. these specialized parts can get expensive when manufactured in low quantities.. could be more.
Nissan setup their own JV to make the batteries so perhaps they get a break on that.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (4:36 pm)#73
Not me kiddo, I can wait them out as long as I have to. I may be an “early adopter”, but not that early, LOL.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (4:45 pm)I don’t think so, but I think the Mazda looks like a Cruze.
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+2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (5:05 pm)I feel the need to completely disagree. Just thinking for myself, of course, I think the range extender concept is REALLY the right way to go, it does not need new infrastructure. And if you need to charge a Leaf, even assuming there is infrastructure, it will take hours.
My wife and I each have a car. If my car was a Leaf that could only go 100 miles, we’d basically have only 1 car that we could take to visit her parents, my parents, her sister, my sister or go into NYC. If her car ever needed service or became damaged we’d both be very limited in where we could go. Obviously if my car was a Volt we could take it anywhere; and we’d have two completely capable cars – no problem if one needed to be in the shop for a while.
When I think about that, I am 100% sure that I would NOT buy a Leaf. I’ll just have to wait for a Volt (or pick one up in California and drive across the country!)
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (5:36 pm)You could always get a loaner from the dealership or just get a rental for the couple of days it takes.. this is the same reasoning the goes into getting a huge pickup truck to haul yard trash to the dump twice a year..
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+2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (5:37 pm)Statik, thanks for the correction. I remembered the 250k. Full details including the phase out period rebates here for anyone interested:
http://action.pluginamerica.org/t/5960/content.jsp?content_KEY=5591
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (5:53 pm)Maybe a future line of GM BEV’s to have a proper charging infrastructure in the first place.
Possibly enhancing the longevity of the Volt battery in the second place. (Utilities are studying the actual absolute carbon reductions and customer-values and must absolutely study daytime demand patterns and possibly the V2G economics that actually might extend Volt battery life in exchange for only the several times per year Volt capacity reserves might be made available to them after 5pm.)
Possibly also in concert with a goal to cut as much carbon as possible as soon as possible because we have run out of time to cut carbon (thirdly).
Fourth: Utilizing all the Voltec intertia as the industry leader in electric motoring to cause as much societal change as possible and infrastructural upgrades as possible (extremely impressive environmental leadership), because the public will rush toward silent electric motoring in both forms, it seems to me. (Just to name a few globally-universal reasons).
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-5
Dec 2nd, 2009 (5:54 pm)Good for Cali, maybe the Volt will help them start to cleanup that massively polluted state.
Don’t you just love those Californians that spend so much time telling others how to be Green when they cannot even cleanup their own backyard.
No wonder California has always been by far the most polluted state in the entire nation and continues to be a world leader in the contamination of previously fertile land. What a freggin joke they are.
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-7
Dec 2nd, 2009 (5:56 pm)“Californians are known to be leaders in adopting groundbreaking new technologies,” said Brent Dewar, GM vice president.
What a load of crap !!!
In my experience, most people from California are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
They flaunt thier self-righteous Green Flags while not practicing what they preach.
There is nothing special about Californians. Give me a break.
Some of the nastiest cites in the US are in the state of California.
When it comes to being Green – they are no different that the rest of the country. They are only more arrogant about it.
They are just a bunch of Liberal Retards, thats all.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:01 pm)I’m not looking forward to that.
When I bought my WRX I had to buy it in Southern CA instead of locally so I wouldn’t have to pay a minimum of 40% markup (just to get it at MSRP). $10k markup on a $24k car. So, for the Volt, that would be about $17k on a $40k car? It’s about 400 miles from Irvine to Silicon valley, takes about 7 hours to drive plus a plane flight down there. Might be making that trip again next year. Sheesh.
Come to think of it, though, I might have bought that just before the dot-com bubble burst. The evil local dealers may not have that kind of pricing power here anymore.
Anyway, I too will wait if I have to. $40k is a stretch, even with the rebate since I still have to pay taxes and licensing based on the whole $40k for the life of the car. I’m certainly not going to pay taxes and licensing based on some outrageous dealer markup for the life of the car!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:03 pm)There is the old saying “there is something rotten in Denmark”, well somthing is wrong with this news. The Volt doesnt need charging stations, it is suppose to be charged in your garage overnight right? That was the promise.
How is GM suppose to fix it’s problems if it can’t produce the Volt now and put it into the hands of eager consumers. A few test vehicles in California does nothing to fix GM’s problems. Sitting on the Volt will only allow competitors to produce better vehicles at lower costs.
Someone needs to investigate why GM is unable to ramp up production and deliver a vehicle today. Sure the Volt uses new technologies, but it isn’t significantly differnt than today’s hybrids. The Volt has been tested, and tested again, so why do we need California utilities to test it more.
If GM is worried about demand on utilities, that is not an issue. The Volt doesn’t draw enough power via a normal 120 plug to do anything to consumption. HDTV’s have created a bigger demand in electrical usage than 10,000 or even 50,000 Volts would ever cause.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:05 pm)Of course the VOLT is coming to California. The electric rates are among the highest and the utilities stand to make a bundle!
http://www.sce.com/CustomerService/billing/tiered-rates/
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+2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:07 pm)YeeeeeHAW!!
I’m feeling all the love here in Kahl-EEEfor-neeia!!!
lol
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:11 pm)Dave, doesn’t E-9 only apply if you’d otherwise be on E-1 (“This experimental schedule applies to electric service to customers for whom Schedule E-1 applies”)? If you’re using E-7 then you can’t use E-9.
You ought to contact the person responsible for the solar net metering. They’re usually very helpful.
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+3
Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:13 pm)Hey, for all you people bashing Californians, I think you’re reading too much into what was said. I read it as “blah blah blah we’ll get more desperately needed CARB credits if we sell these in California as soon as possible blah blah blah”
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:17 pm)Charging stations will run 240 volts at 16 amps. They absolutely ARE RIGHT NOW a big issue REGARDING POWER PLANNING! But there is a way for V2G to be designed to minimize the impact from Volts at home that can temporarily help sell power back for when V2G demand is high for these charging stations, for instance, (and maybe the “at home” Volt could get a power cost break of some kind).
We had 68 days over 100 degrees here in Austin. The grid was ok with that, but when possibly a million cars have the capability to pull 16 amps at 240 volts in five years, then you had better do your homework for what the impacts are to be on the grid.
Designing Infrastructure isn’t some instant thing to pop into reality like adding another outlet to a shop.
Lots of people want the Volt yesterday. I won’t burn myself out by being unrealistic about availability for a year or two here in Texas. I’m just glad they are going somewhere, and, maybe someone who gets one can share their experiences with us here. That will be really neat and just fine with me.
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-1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:20 pm)#102
I’m thinking that, when you go to the dealer to buy a Volt, they will as you to say “California”. If you can’t pronounce it right, “Kahl-EEEfor-neeia”, they’ll know that you are an imposter from another state and not to sell you one of OUR Volts.
I was feeling sort of sorry for our poor deprived colleagues in the other 49 but, after the last few comments, I’m getting over it fast, LOL.
I’m assuming that one will have to get on the “real” waiting list for several months (or years) and/or wait out the “dealer markups” before getting one’s hands on a Volt. Jetting into LAX and picking one up the same day is not going to be an option for a good long time IMHO.
Maybe we can start a cottage industry buying them and exporting them out of state, hehehe. When gas hit $4/gal used Priuses were selling in LA for over MSRP because people didn’t want to wait the 6+ months to get one. Last weekend the local Tojo dealer was advertising $1000 off MSRP and plenty in stock with all packages.
It’s a long worm that has no turning.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:22 pm)I hate to throw gas on the fire, but here goes. There is an article on SPACE.COM about a space based solar energy program that will microwave power to earth. California government and PG&E are actually working on a plan to implement this thing before 2016!
See http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/091202-space-power-beaming.html !!
They must have really good drugs in California.
But no new power stations.
Jeez, I hope my dealer in Ohio gets Volts, then this will be funny, otherwise not so much.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:24 pm)Awww, all the rate schedules say the same thing.
I think they just define the residential customer in Schedule E-1 and then say the rest apply to whomever E-1 applies, meaning those eligible for E-1, not necessarily those actually ON E-1.
But you’re right. I definitely need to talk to the PG&E or CPUC people and figure out where things stand and where they are headed. I really get the feeling that all the Time Of Use schedules will be removed and replaced by Smart Meter Time Of Use where they charge a continuously variable rate at some point in the very near future. Whether or not we can stay grandfathered on the old TOU schedules remains to be seen.
This statement in the E-7 tariff book has always worried me (since I got on E-7 only because some farmers complained about the agriculture rate in E-6 and it went to court. E-7 was re-offered for a limited time while the E-6 rate case was being argued):
“The meters required for this schedule may become obsolete as a result of electric industry restructuring or any other action by the California Public Utilities Commission. Additionally, time-of-use bill savings may be significantly reduced by the adoption of PG&E’s proposals in future rate cases. Therefore, any and all risks of paying the required charges and not receiving commensurate benefits are entirely that of the
customer.”
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:31 pm)I have read some of your comments about “smart grids” and utilities demands, california green, etc.
Since I live here in Texas, and we have excess green wind power, why not sell the Volt here.
For everyone living in other states they might not think of Texas as green, but you would be surprised at the amount of renewable energy we currently produce and will produce in the future.
California isn’t as green as they pretend to be. My roof is packed with solar cells.
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+2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:32 pm)then don’t buy one. If buying a Volt is dictated by being able to get your hands on the first few then you were mostly likely not going to buy one any way.
Prius sold only 18,000 vehicles in 1997 world wide, its first year of production.
In 2002 Toyota sold only 15,556 Prius’s in the US, a 180% increase from the year earlier which took FIVE years to reach from its launch date, yet did I hear people screaming like little girls that they are going to disown Toyota?
By this standard the Volt will be well ahead of the game.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (6:58 pm)– The market has changed profoundly since then.
– Gas is no longer $1 per gallon.
– Both carbon & smog emissions are finally being taken seriously.
5 years reflects the judgement of the task-force of being “too little, too slowly”.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (7:11 pm)Ed Whitacre comes across as a realist and as a bit of a trail blazer. Here’s a question for Ed and the GM board. If all 3500 Chevy dealerships across the USA were given the following stock: 5 Volt, 5 Camaro, and 5 Cruze. Would any of these dealerships have stock remaining after one month?
3500 X 5 = 17,500 (per month per model)
12 X 17,500 = 210,000 (per year per model)
This is a very easy bet to win. Then add volume to meet orders from worldwide markets. Produce these cars in big volume ASAP.
=D~
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (7:17 pm)Hey DaveK,
How about ONE DAY?!!!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (7:18 pm)The Volt wouldnt even be noticed on the Texas grid. The population is exploding, and all those new homes use air conditioners, dryers, TV’s etc. If Texas recieved 100 percent of all the Volts produced in the next five years, maybe they might have an impact.
Texas has excess wind power that utilites do not want to buy, and more is comming on line. The whole Califorina deal is to put DOE money into someone’s pocket, and nothing about green power.
The Volt doesn’t need public charging stations. To create them only makes it appear like the Volt has limited range. The Volt has no range problem.
This is a give away of $30 million in tax payer money to help the California economy. It has nothing to do with Green or with grid capacity. California won’t build new power plants or add green energy, while Texas has excess power and the most aggressive wind power program in the USA.,
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (7:18 pm)Hey john1701a, I was looking at your graph “Prius Personal Data #23″ and noticed a sharp drop off in October. I’m jus curious, what cused the steep decline in mpg? My only experience driving a Prius was a rental and the only thing I can think of killing mpg’s is my wife driving.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (7:24 pm)The same criteria Volt will face, but not until nationwide rollout. The decision to focus on CA the first year will be a problem in this regard. You need a place like MN to prove the robust nature of the design.
Anywho, the drop in October was from it being a much colder month, driving a number of extremely short trips, and carrying bikes on back for a trip up north. I also hadn’t tried grille-blocking yet.
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (7:30 pm)Hmmm. I live in California in the Silicon Valley. I see Tesla’s on the road near me and sat next to a guy at a sushi bar who is an investor in Tesla. He poo-pooed the Volt. Then again, he couldn’t home from Santa Barbara without having to stay overnight part way home because he has no range extender — sucker. I get my power from PG&E. The Fry’s in Sunnyvale has a charging station. My employer has charging stations. I promise to take the Volt to the Palo Alto Concourse d’Elegance. Yeah, I should be high on that list. Make mine Electric Blue.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (7:31 pm)Statik – good comments – and yes, I’m still awake:-) LOL
Basically after a manufacturer sells their first 200,000 EV’s, their customers get a ‘wind-down’ rebate for purchases made during the first year after that 200,000th sale.
So the first 200,000 vehicles get $7,500
And then as many qualifying vehicles that this manufacturer can sell during the next 2 quarters (months 1 to 6), those consumers get $3,750 (50%)
And finally, as many qualifying vehicles that this manufacturer can sell during the next 2 quarters (months 7 to 12), those consumers get $1,875 (25%)
Of course there’s still time for our stellar Washington leadership to make some ’small tweaks’ to this plan!
THE BEST TWEAK THEY COULD MAKE IS TO MAKE THIS AN INSTANT VOUCHER, REDEMABLE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE. This simple change would accellerate the cash payout from the governement, but they’ve blown far more $$$ on programs that have generated ZERO economic activity. For every rebate paid out under this program, a consumer would have:
>Paid much needed sales tax to one of the states
>Done their part to reduce our countries dependancy on foreign oil
>Helped to reduce tailpipe emissions
>Kept more Americans employed
Yes, while I’m on it… Any future US Government auto rebates or vouchers should require that the vehicle be produced here in the US (or the great white north… they count too). If they want to offer a rebate or voucher on vehicles produced in other countries, so be it – but be sure that the allowance is 50% of that paid on a US built model. US production = US jobs = US tax revenue = US GDP = US trade balance. Its all good.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (7:36 pm)Thanks bro!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (7:39 pm)Has anyone considered that someone at GM has concocted a way to generate ‘downstream’ revenue by somehow sharing the ‘charging rates’ with the Electric Utilities they are working with in CA? I’m not saying…. I’m just saying….
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (7:49 pm)While yes, Texas has the most aggressive power development program in the country, my post relates to a five year future look.
I run my business plans 7 years into the future. Utilities run thier plans 10 to 15 and even 30 years into the future. GM runs its business plans 10 to 12 years into the future, I’d bet.
We are fortunate to have corporate insights within this site that are very priveleged compared to any other OEM. The risk regarding that is that it sometimes appears that insufficient “good” comes from these priveleged revelations, but the “good” most certainly is there if you just keep them in mind for about 6 months to a year.
Then, you will recall at that point in the future the advanced thinking of what the management had properly planned (not just for Texas, as you know of course).
The planning contexts regarding what might not immediately make sense for us out here “in the wild”, certainly does make sense for those in charge of billions in assets (especially being constantly under everyone’s microscope). Things GM does absolutely make perfect sense to me if not at first, then certainly as other directly related things develop and become known later.
Other States are the main concerns for GM more likely, but often I talk directly to “people in the know” in related corporations.
Infrastructure is not just capacity to generate electricity, it is mostly everything else, and, we’ve really run out of time to take chances.
Some things can not wisely be told to us publicly for simple reasons of practicality. This is where I especially trust the disclosure-timing of GM management, even as each new revelation generates far more compelling questions by us. I avoid any hard conclusions because the final answers will come when I actually buy the Volt.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (7:55 pm)I heard a report about this on NPR this PM which sort of put this in a different light. Then I came back and read the post again. I’m thinking maybe this 1st 100 will come to CA, and then the real production customer ones will be spread around the country a bit more. I would hope that GM would be wise enough to avoid a bunch of bad feelings because it shipped all of the first ones to us “effete, latte drinking, liberal snobs on the left coast”, LOL. Honestly, I would rather wait a little longer than to stir up a stink like that.
I mean, Bob said, “some other lead markets will be announced in the next few weeks.” So maybe we should just sit tight and see what develops. Anyway, I’m too cheap to pay the “dealer markup”, so I’m not holding my breath.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (7:57 pm)#116
Very cool! Do you tape it up like the NASCAR boys?
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (8:01 pm)CJS,
That ain’t no MGD! I live in Milwaukee, and I drink LOTS of those golden bottles…
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (8:08 pm)“Administrative overhead”
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (8:15 pm)good for china
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (8:17 pm)Global warming my ass. I live in the metroplex as well and it is a full 20 degrees below normal!
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (8:25 pm)hi NP,
We know how it is out here in California. I believe Californian’s will look at the Voltec models as a fad more than just another car to buy. Like a Nano, Beanie Baby, or new energy drink. Wouldn’t be surprised to see wealthy shoppers walk into dealerships and simply place an order for 2 or 3 Volt.
Getting this technology out to the public is as much about GM having the guts to do it. As weighing survey after survey to check the temperature of the market.
Some advice for GM, once you turn the Volt loose. You had better be ready to produce in very high volume. Making fad hungry buyers wait three (plus) months is a major concern. Just think how far ahead GM would be if the Camaro was prepared to ramp up at launch. And maybe the biggest missed opportunity being zero Cruze available during Cash-For-Clunkers. How many would have sold for $13k after rebate. My guess 200,000+.
Hey NP, you going to the auto show this weekend. I plan on being there.
=D~
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (8:36 pm)The knucklehead who thought it was a good idea to get Fritz to resign the day before really needs to get a lesson in timing.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (8:42 pm)Oh? Thanks, I missed that part. Seems like there’s nothing to worry about then. Then I’ll let the people in Cali test it out for me. I agree about the Gen II, I will probably wait for that.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (8:50 pm)Pardon my edit, however I see 100 Volts @ $300,000 a piece. No wonder they are going to California first! Nobody I know could afford them at that price.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (9:13 pm)I wonder how many Volts GM would have to sell before they would be available at list price? 25,000? 50,000? List price Volt available 2013?
Look, another three year wait!
Cheers
Red HHR
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (9:33 pm)Well I don’t know, I think I’m with you on this one, but I’ll have to have another latte and think it over for a while
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+1
Dec 2nd, 2009 (9:48 pm)I think when G.M. and Nissan take their electric cars on tour, they should give Joe Public a spin around a course instead of keeping them behind some roped off area.
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (10:38 pm)Excellent Photoshop work! For a second there, I thought I would have a big ‘O’ when I saw a Red VOLT….!
After reading today’s posts, I’m just a bit more than scared to take any orders on a VOLT. Man! I thought angry Camaro buyers were bad enough when their orders came in 4 months late… but you guys are getting tense!
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-2
Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:43 pm)Well you folks go get your Volts. I am going to keep my 98 Suzuki.
I got 32 miles per gallon over Thanksgiving trips. I am not going to pay $40,000 for a few more miles per gallon. JMHO
Take Care
Arch
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:43 pm)______________________________________________________
#84 Statik Said:
“…Under terms of the deal GM produces 125 corporate fleet and 500 for consumer and gets the 30 million.. The 100 announced today are part of that first 125….”
——-
Statik,
Thanks for that clarification.
I wonder if it ever crossed GM’s mind that there are 500 individuals on this site’s Volt Want List that both would have been willing to purchase a Volt and also gladly volunteer to participate in a real world demonstration study.
______________________________________________________
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Dec 2nd, 2009 (11:47 pm)At that price, they need to roll them out in New York. We’ve got more Billionaires here than anywhere else in the world.
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (12:07 am)They deserve credit for the first, but I don’t see how the state is at fault for the death of the EV1.
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (12:14 am)How is it confusing the issue when most folks don’t know or remember what a Volt is, let alone have any idea about some obscure study of plug ins. It’s not confusing the issue – it’s merely frustrating the faithful.
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (12:18 am)That would be nice but they only have two prototypes, one left hand drive and one right hand drive. If one breaks, the show is over for it’s respective market.
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (12:44 am)It’s all about the battery. I have no doubt GM could crank out Volts just as fast as any other car they make, but without a battery the car is useless.
Toyota was in the same boat with the Prius 18 months ago, and they weren’t dealing with a new battery technology. A Prius sold within hours of arrival at a dealership.
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (12:47 am)Actually in California, we use remote switches that are internet monitored and no flush waterless urinals, whoops gotta go, latte break!!!
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+1
Dec 3rd, 2009 (12:57 am)I agree it’s really inspiring to see the work Austin has done, a true leadership position has been taken. I’d like to see the work of more areas highlighted. Some great changes are methodically taking place. I was also encouraged by the areas chosen by Nissan for the leaf roll-out and I’m sure there are many others.
As LauraM said I’m sure a lot of this is about density, marketing and cost to GM, although anyone with an outlet would be well served with a Volt IMO
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (1:02 am)Colorado offers a full sales tax refund for this vehicle. That’s an additional $3200 tax credit atop of the $7500 federal tax credit. Hope GM knows this. Love to get one sooner than later.
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (1:11 am)California is not so fortunate as it may seem with respect to Volts. An initial batch of a few thousand Volts for a population of 37 million residents, after the end of people cutting back on the purchases of millions of new cars for several years – could only be termed as – - – - basically a statistical insignificance.
There are no highway capable electric cars except for ones that cost over 110 thousand dollars, except for the occasional Ten year old Toyota Rav 4’s which I’ve been told get bid up to about $36,000 when they are available.
A few thousand Volts in this environment will good for a few studies and some internal reviews by GM, and a flurry of publicity. And it will be meaningless for the 36,998,000 Californians who have a chance to hear about the Volt but not buy it.
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (2:03 am)Agreed about making it immediate at time of purchase but they should also make it the first milliion from any manufacturer. This will get 1 million plu-ins on the road much faster and that is a primary goal of the program. NO FRIGGIN $1.5+BILLION OPEN ENDED FREEBIE PER EACH LAZY AZZ MANUFACTURER ($7500 x 200,000 vehicles). Do we really want Honda or worse yet some Chinese manufacturer sitting back copying the risk taking industry leaders and then get the same reward for it. HECK NO! First 1M plug-ins out should get the prize.
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (2:07 am)…and 5 Equinox too.
What do you think CorvetteGuy?
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (2:14 am)In responce to Comment #65, “Go to Los Angeles and buy your Volt there”. OK…but GM might do what Nissan did with their Altima Hybrid-allow only Buyers with LEGAL residences in California to buy their Hybrid (No California Post Office Boxes allowed). I tried to purchase a Nissan Hybrid in San Diego over a year ago, but the Dealership was told by their Nissan supplier not authorize me to purchase the vehicle since I lived in Arizona.
This issue whether Volt Buyers can purchase from other states should be addressed immediately, otherwise there will be more upset people very soon.
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (2:22 am)New York is not the only state to be known for billionaires take for example Bill Gates from Mircrosoft (retired) and the owner of Apple both from Seattle, WA. I bet both of them could afford a Volt piece of cake period!
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (4:51 am)Well that was a nothing announcement. What happened to Seattle, Phoenix, Austin, Atlanta, Charlotte, Washington DC and New York to go along with Sacramento, San Francisco and Los Angeles? That completes the famous “smile strategy”.
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+1
Dec 3rd, 2009 (6:51 am)If the Volt is eventually brought into widespread use in California, how much additional electric power capacity will be needed to charge these vehicles? Where will these new power plants be located? How much additional pollution will these new power plants emit into California’s environment?
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+1
Dec 3rd, 2009 (7:12 am)Here’s some good news. Wind turbine manufacturing is setting up business right here on the coast. Santa Paula is a small town located 20 minutes from Ventura and about 40 minutes from Santa Barbara. About 10 miles inland at the end of a natural wind coridor. The prevailing SW wind blows between 8 mph and 12 mph most days from 10AM to 5PM. Very good for the area.
http://www.vcstar.com/news/2009/jul/01/wind-turbine-company-shores-up-details-on-santa/
=D~
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (7:25 am)Electric cars use a small amount of electricity as a fraction of what is being generated now. Furthermore, the main demand will occur during the early morning hours when there is less demand for air conditioning and most other uses of electricity.
That is, you can relax. There is not a problem. You will not have to get the rest of us to build more power stations to meet the manifold wants of the people of California
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (7:52 am)I agree completely.
Though a huge number of other municipalities have long been striving to emulate Austin. Austin is the nicest place to live also, because Ausinites are extremely technically-thoughtful.
When serving in the Air Force, temporary-duty assignments required my stationing at various bases around the country and around the world for three to 12 weeks at a time. There was this exceptional opportunity to understand the social dynmics of each duty assignment location.
Of all the places in the world I was stationed, I chose Austin TX. to live once my service was fullfilled.
There just was no second or third possibility.
The characteristics of Austin TX on behalf of Volt and GM would indeed reflect most strongly of all, it seems to me, for the corporate mission of GM.
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (1:11 pm)#128
I don’t think so. It’s just frustrating looking at cars you wish you could buy and can’t. Kinda like waiting out the Volt, LOL. We saw the Volt prototype in Santa Monica many months back, so we’re pretty OK with what it’s going to look like. Plus there are about 100 backed up chores at home, as always. Thanks for the thought.
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Dec 3rd, 2009 (1:14 pm)#153
Very cool link. Thanks. I sure hope it works out.
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Dec 4th, 2009 (1:25 pm)While I understand your point, to many engineers, it is not so cut and dry. The power system in the US is very old and becoming more outdated daily. There has been a huge push around the world to overhaul the power grid using modern concepts such as FACTS (Flexible AC Transmission) and HVDC (High Voltage DC Transmission). For some reason, this trend is not getting off the ground in the US and there are serious concerns as to weather our grid can handle car charging. I think the impact of 5-10k cars will be minimal but with 250k+ cars a year added to grid, we will be in for brown/black outs becoming more common place.
I think GM MUST work with the utilities but should keep their mouth shut about it.
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Dec 4th, 2009 (4:49 pm)Don’t forget about the distributed storage capability of the Volt. Charging at night and providing extra capacity to the grid by day. This will help utilities even out their loads and be the real benefit of electric vehicles in the future. It will especially help with using large wind generating capacity, because of it’s intermitent nature.
See: http://www.udel.edu/V2G/docs/KemptonDhanju06-V2G-Wind.pdf
At the end of the day, the volt’s battery only needs enough capacity to get you back to your garage where it can take on a complete charge. Just let me know where they will be sold so I can buy my plane ticket from NC.
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