Nov 25
GM Teams With National Federation for the Blind to Develop Safe Sound Alert For Electric Vehicles
Electric cars are silent-running which for many people is a very good thing. It can potentially lead to some risk to the visually-impaired and other pedestrians however as some studies show.
A study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration published in September reveled bicyclists and pedestrians are struck at a significantly higher rate by hybrid as opposed to conventional cars.
GM has created a special pedestrian alert signal for the Chevy Volt. ”It is an active system,” says Chief engineer Andrew Farah, meaning the driver must activate it. Passive systems produce a sound at all times. The Volt pedestrian alert sound is a light volume horn-like sound similar to the chirp of some cars keyless entry indicators. ”It has to be automotive,” says Farah referring to the quality of the tone.
The fist generation Chevy Volt will not be equipped with a passive alert system. Competitor Nissan has reportedly developed a system for its upcoming LEAF EV which sounds like a floating car from the Bladerunner movie. GM is looking at the possibility of passive alert for future Volt generations. Other electric automakers such as Tesla remain uncertain.
Today GM has announced that they formed a partnership with the National Federation for the Blind to identify what will be a “safe level of sound” for alerting visually impaired and other pedestrians to the approach of a silent running EV.
Meetings have begun earlier this year and are also aimed at protecting runners, cyclists, and children.
“We have significant background in the area of pedestrian alerts dating to our work on our first electric car, the EV1,” Farah said, “The most important thing is to listen to the people who will interact with these vehicles in everyday life.”
Deborah Kent Stein, who chairs the NFB’s Committee on Automobile and Pedestrian Safety, said, “A recent report from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) demonstrated that the silent operation of hybrid vehicles is an issue for all pedestrians, not just the blind. In certain situations, electric or hybrid vehicles are twice as likely to be involved in collisions with pedestrians. The NFB looks forward to working with the safety agency in the crafting of appropriate standards establishing an acceptable level of minimum vehicle sound.”
“The National Federation of the Blind appreciates the opportunity to work with General Motors on this problem,” said Dr. Marc Maurer, president of the National Federation of the Blind. “We urge all automobile manufacturers to work with the blind in designing vehicle sounds to alert us to the approach, speed and direction of vehicles so that both drivers and pedestrians can safely use America’s roadways.”
A low-level low-speed vehicular sound for EVs may be inevitable, though no formal federal regulations currently exist. Future legislation may arise in concert with input from the Society of Automotive engineers to develop a national standard.
A lack of consensus and standards among automakers could conceivably result in a virtual cacophony of discordant sounds once streets become filled with EVs from various automakers. Thus all cars should produce similar sounds, likely ruling-out the possibility of customizable “car tones,” as some pundits have speculated about.
Like it or not, the sound of silence appears to be on its way.
Below is GM’s video on the sound of the Volt:
This entry was posted on Wednesday, November 25th, 2009 at 8:01 am and is filed under Features, Safety. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+3
Nov 25th, 2009 (8:11 am)Hear Hear! I want my Volt to sound like those hover boards in Back to the Future! Lol.
In all seriousness…I suppose it’s good and necessary to think about safety…although I’d be more supportive of a headset for the blind that would make noises when any car approaches, rather than adding to the noise pollution we already deal with in large uban areas…
LJGTVWOTR
+5
Nov 25th, 2009 (8:12 am)I still don’t see the problem here.
No matter what you do, there are noises coming from the vehicle such as a/c motors, p/s pumps, tire noise and not to mention the entertainment system.
This is not a new problem. Caddys or limos are very quiet already.
I am not in favor of more noise pollution. If this is truly needed, we need a standard asap.
+2
Nov 25th, 2009 (8:14 am)How about the Road Runner sound? “BEEP BEEP.”
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (8:14 am)Sound enabled at low speed by default, we can manually disable it through easy reach button. It reenables itself when you reach highway speeds, so you don’t forget to put it back on once at destination.
NPNS
+6
Nov 25th, 2009 (8:15 am)“GM has created a special pedestrian alert signal for the Chevy Volt
. ”It is an active system,” says Chief engineer Andrew Farah, meaning the driver must activate it.”
I would imagine in a few years the government will mandate a passive system but thank you GM for looking into making it an active system. I want my silent car to be silent.
My 86 Vanagon played La Cucaracha when it first started up (that was done at the factory not aftermarket) so maybe if I get to pick my tune for the active system I’ll download that tune and bring myself back!
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (8:17 am)I agree. Cars make noise already. If you are tuned in, as you should be if you are blind, you can pick these things up. If not, then I would not reccomend crossing a street alone.
+6
Nov 25th, 2009 (8:22 am)I believe I might have an interesting set of ideas to contribute for these problems.
How about radio receiving sensors in canes for the blind, where, as a quiet vehicle of any type comes near, and, at what speed, then there could be a vibration set up in the handle so that the blind individual could actually sense the closeness and speed of any vehicle “inbound” toward the cane. (Possibly even a sense of the direction by having the antenna inside of it attenuated perpendicularly or not (weaker signal), so that the blind pedestrian may actually “feel the inbound vehicular direction front-back or side to side” at least.) (Helpful for highly reflective/echoing sounds off of concentrated sets of big buildings in downtown areas).
If I had a Volt, I would buy the transmitter part of it myself for such a system, especially where there are roads that have signage for “Blind Pedestrians”.
The pulsewidth of the vibration could be set up to indicate distance, and, the strength of the vibration could be set up to indicate speed. These two things together could begin to form a new “language” for the blind, where all kinds of other information could be gradually added over the years as a new way to “let the blind ‘see’”. I think these sorts of directions would be additionally more helpful for all manner of quiet vehicles.
+4
Nov 25th, 2009 (9:16 am)Sound enabled at low speeds – I’d hate to live near a stop sign !
Nov 25th, 2009 (9:22 am)“The fist generation Chevy Volt will not be equipped with a passive alert system.”
Another reason to long for the first ones.
“A lack of consensus and standards among automakers could conceivably result in a virtual cacophony of discordant sounds once streets become filled with EVs from various automakers. Thus all cars should produce similar sounds, likely ruling-out the possibility of customizable “car tones,” as some pundits have speculated about.”
First of all, I see no reason why artificially added sound need be omnidirectional. It ought to be more effective, in fact, to just place a small speaker at each front corner, angled out to that side.
Keep in mind that when the government gets involved with safety sounds, what you get is “BEEP … BEEP … BEEP …” How will a city-full of OSHA backup-style beepers sound? Establish standards for allowable sounds that prevent excessively loud (or soft) or inappropriate sounds, and let discordancy ensue. It will not kill anyone in government to allow some individual expression. I promise. A little bit of discord is the sound of freedom.
Nov 25th, 2009 (9:23 am)Meet George Jetson…..dah-ta,dah-ta,dah-ta,dah-ta,dah-ta,dah-ta!!!! If it is passive and too loud, people will figure out a way to disable it…..
+3
Nov 25th, 2009 (9:27 am)However noble the idea is for informing others of your surroundings it does not replace the fact that the people driving the cars would still be oblivious! Some of the loudest most obnoxious cars out there have more accidents and speed more often.
Personally what I see is it becoming an annoyance, I don’t want my car honking or making noises at anyone. Because something tells me when my car does do something like that I might be hard pressed to explain to someone very quickly why my car is doing that.
And sometimes, you don’t need to let people know you’re there.
+14
Nov 25th, 2009 (9:29 am)Yesterday we were concerned about the noise of the generator. And, today we are concerned in case the Volt is too quiet?
OK then.
Just build it already !!!!!
LJGTVWOTR
Has Plug? Have Sale.
Nov 25th, 2009 (9:36 am)Wonder full Video, I like it.
One of the right steps by Volt team than going to a Hollywood studio and making a science fiction sound. Thanks to them to be realistic.
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (9:36 am)… would be for other sounds like a blindfold for sighted people which lights up to tell them a car is coming. I can’t picture the blind people I’ve known going for that. A beeping cane or a little belt-clip box would be another matter; but I would foresee a problem getting them into the hands of all those who need it. Blindness, in addition to the obvious problems, can often be something of a financial catastrophe.
No transmitter/receiver concept will address the sighted bicyclists and pedestrians also mentioned in the article.
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (9:46 am)DO this car not have a horn? Absence of sound opens other possibilities,give the driver a choice of sounds say like a very expensive sports car that can be selected or downloaded.
+4
Nov 25th, 2009 (9:48 am)I agree with loboc and nuclearboy here. If this was a huge problem the Prius would be knocking off people (especially kids) left and right. Admittedly the *driver* needs to be a bit more cautious, but a passive noise machine would defeat one of the nicest features of electric driving (and possibly diminish demand)
I like Dan’s solution, but I think it’s a solution in search of a real world problem. Maybe all cars should have his system installed to help out the blind.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Nov 25th, 2009 (9:56 am)Surely a transmitter/receiver setup absolutely could help the sighted of course, but there are gradations of awareness and sensory capabilities.
The blind need more assistance (and choices of help) than the sighted by far. The sighted are responsible for their own safety awareness more than can be the visually impaired.
There can be a really terrific sensory language developed for what you could call a “Harmonics cane”.
You can vary the various pulses in duration, strength, interval, (like Morse Code), and on and on and on.
.
Nov 25th, 2009 (9:57 am)It is my nature to be caring about the disadvantaged but this may be a problem best left up to the driver. I really do not want my Volt chirping nearly constantly everytime I drive in the downtown area of a major city. An alert if something/sombody is directly and close to your front bumper or rear bumper while in reverse. More to alert the driver than the pedistrian.
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:10 am)Another idea is if there is telemetry sent out from Volt anyway (to GM), how about when it is in proximity to a sight-impaired receiver, it might be set up to be bidirectional in that the Volt would transmit its location and, a recorded voice in the cane tells the person that a Volt is coming from the right or left or front right, front left, back left, back right, verbally. (They make speakers so small, one could fit into the top of it).
With all the packaging of all manner of electronics into everything nowadays (singing birthday cards, for instance), there certainly ought to be really effective sets of ways to do all this seamlessly.
+2
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:15 am)If this has to be done, which I really don’t think is necessary, then I want it to be able to customize it!
How about Mr. T saying “Get out da way, FOOL!!!”
OK, joke time is over….
I am a bit confused as to why every car will have to have a sensor, with all that associated cost and maintenance being the responsibility of the driver. Then the lawyers get involved when there is an accident, and you get sued in court because your alert sensor failed and you bumped someone that walked out in front of your car. Shouldn’t it be the responsibility of the person that is walking to be able to safely cross the street???? They should be required to have some type of sensor to know there is a vehicle stopped at the intersection, not the other way around…..
This is political correctness gone insane!
JMHO
+2
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:18 am)Ditto. I’m against noise pollution. It’s an annoyance and that’s all. Let’s find a better idea to improve things. This is not an improvement whatsoever.
+3
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:19 am)This has to be the dunmbest and stupidest waste of money conceivable. What about Deaf people?
There is a better technical approach.
I think I’ll contact the gentelman to offer an engineers perspective for solving the problem for BOTH Deaf and Blind people. While simultaneously not destroying the new found serenity offered by reductions in Noise levels, by Electrifcation of Ground Transport for the rest of the population.
Why must we always interfere with the satisfactions of the majority, for a partial attempt to placate a minority? Its not always necessary if you simply T-H-I-N-K.
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:25 am)Purely anecdotal, but now that I am driving a scooter, I do depend on my ears to gauge the traffic around me. Expect to read my obit regarding my scooter and a Prius I did not hear coming.
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:28 am)The hypermilers turn off their ICE motors, what about those cars.
GM has it right, an soft “horn” for the non-motorist.
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:28 am)GM: Great concept, well implemented!
I agree that the sound should be “automotive”, fairly subdued and activated only by the driver. Where I live many of the highways have narrow bicycling lanes on the right side and many cyclists use them as well as ride on the extreme right of the roadways that do not have designated bike lanes. Here, passing a cyclist on the road is a MUCH more common event than approaching seeing-impaired persons in parking lots or crosswalks.
And as much as I always want to alert cyclists as I approach, I never do because (as a cyclist myself) I know even a just quick tap on my horn can be worse than doing nothing because it’s startling! ….and it might even cause the cyclist to loose control & accidently swerve into me! This subdued yet instantly recognizable Volt alert seems to me to be the perfect compromise for alerting both cyclists and pedestrians! I’d definitely use it often!
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:28 am)I’m sure they can make it so it won’t add a dime to the cost.
And, I’d bet they won’t need to have artificial sounds made either.
If Volt has any outgoing telemetry at all, a simple repeating subroutine with basic info could be sent out like your cell phone does. Or, your cell phone could do it for you too, on its own, you being a Volt driver being in your Volt.
Not a difficult thing to do, just a difficult thing to industry-standardize.
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:36 am)These transmitter/telemetry/receiver/noise-maker ideas are all well and good, however, I think that all that time and effort could be spent better on collision avoidance systems.
You don’t need telemetry and/or transmit/receive if you just use SONAR. If bats can do it, surely we can figure out a way.
For that matter, just get these unfortunate people some dogs. Way cheaper than modifying every car on the road.
Oh, sorry, It’s not PC to call disabled people ‘unfortunate’. There’s so many lawyers per-capita that we can’t even speak our mind any more. Jeez.
+2
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:40 am)Its the drivers responsibility NOT to hit a pedestrian. Whether they are driving a silent EV or a V8 with blow headers it doesn’t matter.
Bottom line, if you run over someone, its your fault.
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:42 am)You could have cell phones say “car coming” with a quickly-pulsing vibrate, instead of ringing (for a phone call), when there is a quiet vehicle coming near, and, a setting on the phone is enabled.
+3
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:51 am)LJGTVWOTR!!
‘Nuff said.
Tagamet
+2
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:01 am)It’s called crosswalks. They have chirping sounds when it’s ok to cross.
Any blind person (in all my years I don’t think I’ve ever seen a blind person walking around with their seeing eye dog) that is trying to jaywalk is probably going to be hit by someone else anyway.
Besides, as other have mentioned, the Volt is still going to be making tire noise. Pretty much any of the engines in today’s new cars are silent compared with their tire noise at low speed. I can’t even tell when the engine is running in my Honda when I’m INSIDE.
THIS IS STUPID.
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:09 am)Current hybrid cars make a distinctive whine associated with the switching frequency of the inverters in the drive system. I am able to tell if a car coming down the road is a hybrid without looking because I notice that sound. I’ve heard the term “silent” for the Volt, but unless they have made the switching frequency above audible it will make the same sound.
I would expect a vision impaired person should have even better ability to pick up the audible cues the Volt or any other Hybrid makes.
+3
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:15 am)As I’ve said before, cure blindness.
Everyone will be happy then.
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:22 am)Or the General Lee horn.
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:28 am)I also concur. This makes me think of the whole “locking the barn door after the cow’s been stolen” reaction. Electric/silent cars have been on the horizon for years – why is it suddenly an emergency now?
Please don’t think I’m attempting to be disrespectful, but if we’re not careful, we’ll see companies kowtow to the “needs”/demands of everyone and we’ll wind up driving 5mph vehicles made of soft material (to not hurt anyone if it bumps into them) or have no vehicles at all.
If needed, hopefully companies will produce a few examples of how having forced users to do certain things (seat belt interlock, automatic seat belts, etc.) backfired in the past.
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:30 am)The “Theme from JAWS” works every time!
Happy Turkey Day everybody!
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:37 am)#2
I agree completely. You have said it all on this issue, IMHO. Next case.
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:42 am)The problem as written.
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:45 am)I’m a recent convert on this issue. I thought that it would be absurd to have a car make a fake noise to let people know that it was coming. However, the other day as I was taking my 3 y/o son to preschool, a seemingly parked prius started moving in the parking lot. There was a little lady behind the wheel, and while she didn’t hit us, or really even get close, it was startling nonetheless.
I think that the car should emit a constant few decibels of mostly white noise when engaged to drive that are only audible within 10 or 15 feet of the vehicle. The small honks on the video are wrong.
+2
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:46 am)Question of the day:
Which would be more of a hazard at a crosswalk:
The unattentive deaf person, the hard of hearing blind person, or the average person with iPod headphones on?
Discuss.
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:48 am)Interesting topic – I give kudos to GM for reaching out the National Federation of the Blind on this. To be selfish, we all want our silent EV to remain silent…. but, especially at Thanksgiving time, we can each step back and be thankful that we have our senses (or at least most of them… most of the time…. awe, I’m trying to be serious here…). There are those folks without the benefit of sight who are out and about doing their best to be involved in our everyday society. The stuff we take for granted (seeing traffic lights, visualizing the next cross-walk, watching life go by), is a distant dream for many. These folks rely on a super sensitized sense of smell, hearing, and touch to make up for the lack of vision.
I don’t think the solution needs to be an overzelous sound that will irritate the masses – but if GM can work with this organization, they can perhaps form a new universal sound that can be applied to all future EV’s.
I also love the idea at #7 by Dan Petit… a cane that emits vibration based on certain inputs could be lifechanging – it could even incorporate GPS to signal upcoming changes in grade, curbs, etc.
Be thankful for all we take for granted!
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:53 am)Another positive that’ll help pull GM’s image out of the sewer.
Speaking of the LEAF, Nissan was showing the car at a nearby city yesterday, and I stopped in to check things out.
The setting was at a shopping mall, just outside one of the entrances to a Macy’s store, where a LEAF was situated, surrounded around its perimeter by a rope just out of reach, and protected by a security guard positioned within the rope. The guard prevented anyone from laying a finger on the car.
Next to the car was a small, open sided tent where a single page promo on the LEAF was available, and where T-shirts were being passed out to interested prospects. There were perhaps seven or eight Nissan reps floating around the area.
I stopped in at 1:45 PM. The store traffic – people walking in and out – mainly glanced at the car with few stopping to check it out. Perhaps it was too early in the day (the car was there until 9:00PM) for it seemed the Nissan reps were not very busy with people when I was there.
The LEAF looked bigger than I imagined; in between an Altima and a Sentra in size, I would say. It was painted a striking clearcoated light metallic blue. Body panel fit seemed very good. The interior seemed roomy and the white upholstery on the comfortable looking seats looked like leather although it was in reality a recycled plastic material.
On the dash’s center was a screen which had a mapquest-type map image — in the center of the map was the location of the car, with its present-time 360º available range highlighted in a lighter shade than the area beyond. I suppose as the car is driven the map zooms in or the lighter shaded zone diminishes in size.
Looking underneath the car, the undercarriage was totally flat from front to behind the rear wheels, hiding the innards from view. Very low ground clearance.
The rep I talked to was one of the several young 20-ish females Nissan had there. She answered my questions rather well, although she described the Volt as a ‘hybrid kind of like a Prius, and not a real electric powered car’. She said the sales price is as of yet undetermined, but should be under $30K; as to what makes it better than the old GM EV1 she said it seats 4 instead of 2; and admitted that its heater would reduce its range from 100 miles down to perhaps 80 miles.
Apparently the car did move under its own power according to the security guard, but whether or not it was actually road-worthy, I don’t know.
In summing up the visit, the LEAF show model looked finished and capable; it looks better close up than it does when you move away from it. Unfortunately for it though, it is an EV with limited range needing long periods of downtime while it recharges. Realistically, I don’t see very many people committing a chunk of their liquid assets for a car that has such compromises.
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:56 am)AMEN, just walk or drive through San Francisco, you will see 90% of the pedestrians with white plugs in their ears
this effort is wasteful and will only cause deployment delays, why not put scoops on the cars like they used to have 100 years ago to just scoop up pedestrians instead of running them over
Nov 25th, 2009 (11:59 am)Dan,
What if our blind friend is sitting at a sidewalk cafe having a coffee and his phone keeps jumping off the table every time a Volt/EV goes by?
They would turn off that ‘feature’ in very short order.
The driver activated ‘soft’ horn is a better, easier and cheaper solution.
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (12:02 pm)but they still won’t be able to HEAR the damn electric cars, LOL
Nov 25th, 2009 (12:02 pm)This solution is more or less laid out in (mostly) conservative Steven Landsburg’s book “More Sex is Safer Sex”. We know empirically that drivers hit pedestrians because they don’t see them. This doesn’t mean that they can’t physically see them, it means that they’re not expecting them so they don’t process what they’re seeing (if you change No Parking signs to Stop signs drivers don’t even notice). The solution is to have more pedestrians. For example, as a pedestrian you’re safer in areas like NY City where there are a lot of other pedestrians because drivers are looking for you. (More people are killed in NY but the risk is statistically lower).
This sound thing sounds fine (sic) but it probably won’t make any difference. For example, Nasaman is probably looking for cyclists so he won’t run them over, nor will he do that thing where he goes in front of them and then makes a right turn at so short a distance that the cyclists can’t stop before hitting the side of his car. (I’ve seen the that a few times).
Farrah alludes to new technology that warns the driver when there is a pedestrian near the vehicle — Volvo just came out with it. This seems a far better way to go. Unless of course you think drivers are trying to hit blind people, in which case I guess it would just alert them that the target was in the zone.
Nov 25th, 2009 (12:02 pm)FYI
Volt on Today show. Not sure if this link will work outside of GM.
http://communicator.gm.com/v5/sites/features/2009/newsline/video/today.wmv
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (12:06 pm)I think we need to do a study on this.. this next spring GM should offer 10,000- 50,000 Volts on sale or lease to a specially selected group of people distributes across the US.. at the same time GM can gather data on the vexing home charging infrastructure problem. This is urgently needed.
I will volunteer to participate.
Nov 25th, 2009 (12:15 pm)They found a way to “cure” deafness with cochlear implants. At least for some people. And, it’s extremely controversial. The deaf community feels that it’s an affront to their culture. So, I wouldn’t assume the blind community would welcome a cure with open arms…
Nov 25th, 2009 (12:17 pm)I think the cell phone feature is a great idea if it’s technically feasable. The blind person would turn the feature back on when they have to cross the street. The driver will look out regardless. And they’ll probably blow the horn if they see someone. But this way, the blind person can have the same added protection they would if they could hear the car.
Nov 25th, 2009 (12:21 pm)It’s annoying!!!
It seems like they are trying to work with what is already in the vehicle ( That is they don’t want to add any more parts) to get a result. Given that, using the one part of the car designed to be loud and annoying was stupid. They should just rev up the radiator fan.
In future version a universal tone like a door bell or music or fan noise would be better. You can’t rely on the blind to have receiver modules.
Nov 25th, 2009 (12:24 pm)The video is well done and I like the way GM approached the problem, by making it optional and part of the horn system, instead of adding more equipment tailored to a pedestrian alert. The cynic inside me wants to know where the money leads for the pedestrian incident study. Who stands to benefit from selling something that a government report and potential future mandate support? Additionally, I think the statistics are skewed and should be compared against population density. It is possible that pedestrian incidents occur in and around urban areas where there has also been an even more significant increase in hybrid vehicles. The rate of pedestrian incidents is probably the same, just more hybrids in the sample vehicle population.
Nov 25th, 2009 (12:39 pm)My GEM E-4 (2005) came with a non-cancelling turn signal switch. For under $10 I added a Radio Shack electronic alert in parallel with each front turn signal bulb. Now I don’t forget to reset the turn indicator after a turn and anyone on the sidewalk is alerted to my intention to turn even if they don’t know I’m there because they didn’t hear me. It is a great audible signal for pedestrian safety.
Nov 25th, 2009 (12:45 pm)Honesty time: Could there be just a small component of “Hey, look everybody; our new Volt is so quiet, blind people need help to tell it’s there!” to this announcement? Maybe just a teeny smidgen?
It doesn’t take much money to change how an existing horn is electrically driven to produce a quieter, modulated sound (and the extra button doesn’t either). At least not compared to what might be mandated later, and on all manufacturers pretty much equally.
I don’t feel it’s all that “obvious” that a passive sound must be “automotive.” Were early horseless carriages required to make whip and whinney noises?
While I tend to side with the “let silent stay silent” folks, I have to admit that you can’t hear tire noise and other existing EV sounds against the ‘roar’ of an urban setting. I agree with those who say a passive sound closer to white noise makes more sense than anything sounding like a horn or tone, however soft. That urban ‘roar’ comes from millions of ICE vehicles running. You don’t want to replace it (eventually) with the ‘screech’ of millions of low speed EVs and EREVs.
Nov 25th, 2009 (12:47 pm)The several points being: (Besides the “off” button, and, maybe ” ‘auto/on’ with movement”.)
The first:
Whatever you can do for free, software wise, then offer it.
(And, while GM has already likely thought of this one, it doesn’t hurt to openly discuss multiple solutions that are utilized all at the same time at no cost to Volt owners).
The second,
Whatever you already have or have access to, then see if it can be used in such a way as to offer one or a dozen more methods to accomplish a goal. (Thinking out of the box).
You don’t have to utilize something that is offered for free, it’s just there if it makes sense to use and is easy to use, and is just as cheap as “free” to use.
Nov 25th, 2009 (12:50 pm)You’re absolutely right about the tight knit Deaf community. I honestly don’t know if the Blind community has the same sense of culture. My daughter is an interpreter for the deaf and she’s experienced the whole cochlear implant controversy (she did her Masters paper on it) and it was a real eye-opener to me how intensely they identify with their deafness.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Nov 25th, 2009 (1:08 pm)Hey Tag,
I really agree that an “eye opener” occurs with the hearing impaired more than visually impaired.
I have a hunch that part of the reason may be that the hearing impaired do not have as strong an indication of conversational-involvement from the person communicating to them as perhaps do the visually impaired whom can hear. Intonation, is extremely yielding of meaning, and, it can be a lot of work for the hearing impaired to form a deep sense that you are working hard enough to communicate. (Signing for technology is even more difficult).
It’s indeed very frustrating for the hearing impaired to understand technological reasons for auto servicing needs, when because they are unable to hear the audible warning signs that immediate attention to something is imperative. Then, most sadly of all, something very expensive happens to their vehicle.
Nov 25th, 2009 (1:15 pm)I honestly had no idea.
I would love to read Tag’s daughter’s thesis on this.
I am really taken aback. Maybe because I have never been deaf or blind….just stupid. I don’t think there is a cure for stupid.
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (1:16 pm)#54
No, but at the beginning in the UK you had to have a person with a red flag walking out ahead to avoid scaring people’s horses. And it was several years on before they raised the speed limit from 10 mph to 20 mph. Change is scary.
+3
Nov 25th, 2009 (1:17 pm)The more I think about this, the more stupid it sounds to me (in my humble and apparently selfish and non-caring opinion) add some little sound device to the car for the benefit of blind people. The cars already have a very effective device. Its called the horn.
Thinking realistically, how many blind people do you see that need to be notified that you are coming. I drive in a densly populated area and quite frankly can only remember seeing a blind person once or twice out walking around alone. In these instances, there was no need for a noise because they were not in my way and just walking along the sidewalk. In the rare instance that a blind person seems to need some attention getting noise from me, I would toot the horn (as I would for any other pedestrian who is acting like they are blind). I am thinking 5 or less horn toots for the life of the car based on my 3+ decades of driving.
For such a small issue, the horn is fine and more effective anyway. In addition, its already in place.
For those who live next to the school for the blind and feel the need for a more pleasant tone of some sort so they do not scare the bejesus out of any blind people, a dealer installed option should be made available. Problem solved.
Nov 25th, 2009 (1:17 pm)Dan,
Believe it or not there is an enormous amount of “intonation” and even sarcasm in American Sign Language. I suspect that the sensory demands on language – spoken and signed – is a large part of their sense of Culture. They can go so far as “shunning” people who actually choose to get a cochlear implant. They don’t see themselves as “impaired” and therefore resent any effort to “fix” them.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Nov 25th, 2009 (1:17 pm)I predict blind people will hear the sound and think that it’s a new crosswalk sound and cross in front of Volt drivers. It will accomplish the exact opposite of what it’s meant for.
Nov 25th, 2009 (1:26 pm)That’s another surprise for me (that an implant operation would have some shunning occurring). Maybe silence is “golden” in the sense that there may be some very advantageous aspects to a “noiseless”/”soundless” consciousness that’s just plain peaceful.
(Possibly underrated to some extent or by a great extent by us, the hearing).
Nov 25th, 2009 (1:27 pm)Not in any sense stupid – just uninformed. For that there’s education and as such it’s a perfectly “curable” condition (we all need it).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Nov 25th, 2009 (1:47 pm)If it really is a problem, they simply need to add a humming of some sort at low speeds, as some suggested like the hover boards from Back to the Future.
No need for beeping or chirping or anything like that.
Nov 25th, 2009 (2:05 pm)I agree as well, until a large part of the cars are EV, this should not be a concern.
This is more a PR thing then anything else…
Nov 25th, 2009 (2:19 pm)Wouldn’t it be simpler and more reliable to put a proximity laser scaner on the front of the car, that would stop the car if an obstruction is detected? This way, you are not relying on a person hear a sound and then react. What if they have headphones on, or are just hard of hearing. There would also be benifits to using a PLS to stop you car regarding fender benders, unseen objects, and possibly deer.
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (2:30 pm)If the blind don’t have a sighted guide or service animal, what are they doing, wandering about blind? Shades of Mr Magoo!
And cyclists – don’t get me started. They ignore every traffic law, and even common sense, as they go the wrong way in traffic, weave in and out of the cars, and sometimes ride BETWEEN cars on the dividing line between lanes. No wonder they get hurt.
Anyone who tries to invent a foolproof system usually underestimates the creativity of complete fools. That goes for the Volt, too.
BTW, I want to download “Achy Breaky Heart” into the sound system – at high volume – just to annoy the cyclists. Or my preference – speed-linked steam locomotive sound effects, complete with a loud steam whistle. THAT would get everyone’s attention.
Nov 25th, 2009 (2:53 pm)… and many more.
GM take note. I emphatically believe that Jim I (#20) is correct when he says:
“If this has to be done, which I really don’t think is necessary, then I want it to be able to customize it!”
Nov 25th, 2009 (3:27 pm)Tag:
If a deaf person feels they are not impaired, that is fine with me. But then I also think it is wrong to expect everyone else to be forced to make special concessions for their “non-impairment”!
The ADA forced just about every city in the USA to dig up every street corner to make them wheelchair accessible, which sounds like an excellent idea. But it cost billions of dollars for a very small minority, and an even smaller amount of those that actually use the new walkways. I would rather have seen that money spent buying new books or hiring new teachers for our children or hiring some new policemen / firemen to protect us.
JHMO
PS: Have a great Thanksgiving everyone!!!
Nov 25th, 2009 (3:51 pm)I would highly suspect that you will not have any customizable sounds.
You want persons to be able to discriminate the sound of a car, versus the sound of someones boombox/radio booming out what ever.
I sounds fun, but seriously, if they mandate this, then it needs to follow a specific guideline. When it comes to safety, you have to be very specific, otherwise bad things can happen.
Nov 25th, 2009 (3:55 pm)Jim I
I understand all about the Americans with Disabilities Act. It’s the current law of the land. If it upsets you that physically challenged people have the temerity to ask for access to buildings, change the law.
Have a Happy (and grateful) Thanksgiving!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Nov 25th, 2009 (4:13 pm)One thing I would have liked in the report is how this horn chirp sounds INSIDE the Volt. Is it something the driver will hear? If not, its easier to convince them that its a good thing to have on their cars.
Also, this car is just one VOLT sitting still. I’m sure we can all envision a time when VOLTs and electric cars will be the predominant type of cars on the road.
Imagine dozens or even hundreds of cars within earshot, all making this horn chirping noise. At that point the sound may cease to be an effective tool for the deaf AND drive everybody crazy, too.
I think the tone should be one standardized noise that all electric cars make and something that is an effective aid for the deaf but does not add to noise pollution.
You would think it could be quieter than existing ICE engine noise and still be effective.
+3
Nov 25th, 2009 (4:22 pm)After reading a lot of the comments here I have one thought. These people need to spend time with people who have disabilities. Walk a few miles in their shoes and you’ll sing a different tune. It’s pure selfishness to put all the burden on the disabled.
Nov 25th, 2009 (4:29 pm)On Sound
#1. Take a Caddy. Measure Sound 1′ in all directions at Idle. Measure Sound 5′ in all directions (180 degree arch in the direction of travel) at 10 mph and 25 mph.
#2. Require all new cars to produce the same Volume of sound at those distance in audible range of humans (lets say 5kHz to 10kHz)
Maybe insist on a certain tone (a Whirl or Warble… heh). Point speakers -away- from inside of car. Its entirely possible that at 5-10kHz the sound will be barely audible -inside- the car.
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (4:32 pm)Isn’t it the DRIVERS responsibility not to run down pedestrians? Today’s new cars are so quiet unless they are under heavy acceleration anyway. A blind person wouldn’t hear a 2010 Lexus that was coasting at idle going 25mph any less than they would hear a Volt. This is completely a waste of time and an example of “political correctness” overruling reason.
Nov 25th, 2009 (4:34 pm)Tag, sorry, you’re wrong and Rashiid is correct. Education is the cure for ignorant. There is no cure for stupid!
Having said that, I think we all agree Rashiid is NOT stupid.
Nov 25th, 2009 (4:36 pm)Errr… when did it become a right to use sidewalks and get into buildings? A right that superseeds using a benefit/cost approach?
However, since people are a little lazy
~1.6 million use Wheelchairs, and reduced curbhieghts also assist ~ 6million who use permanent braces, canes or walkers.
Even if we assume 1,000 dollars per person (over a lifetime, this is a small amount) to redo the streets, thats a fund of over 7 billion. Considering that street corners will likely be there for a long long time (without a noticable increase in maintaince costs due to being wheelchair accessable) the amount per person likely falls into the 400-500 dollar range. Seems very reasonble spending to me.
Nov 25th, 2009 (4:58 pm)In all seriousness; everyone here wants to avoid hitting a pedestrian. I don’t know of anyone who enjoys a good lawsuit, let alone an increase in their auto insurance rates; but that’s not what this is about.
It’s about all of the carmakers trying to cover their azzes and protect themselves from a class-action after the first pedestrian kisses the windshield on an electric vehicle.
I’m sure there will be more accidents with “normal-hearing” people than with any blind or hearing-impaired persons. People are just plain stupid. It will either be the driver; not watching the road, or the totally-oblivious pedestrian in the parking lot jumping out in front of the oncoming car.
I’m just offended that some tiny little “rights group” is going to force their will on the auto industry and have them add $1000 worth of technology to the price of the car – which in reality will not be the solution to the problem.
Drive safe, people! That’s all there is to it.
+1
Nov 25th, 2009 (5:25 pm)We have been over this many times. Frankly, I’d almost rather argue about politics – JUST KIDDING! Or read the inspiring contributions of the trolls, LOL.
Anyway, let me just join the chorus of Happy Thanksgiving to all. Starting with Dr. Dennis, the GM Volt team, and all of you awesome bloggers. To all of our valued friends around the world, whether you celebrate the holiday or not, very best regards. I include Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and even our fun little trolls. What the hey, it’s the Holiday seanson, so even Bob Lutz.
Think of it, this time next year I guess we will all be reporting Volt signtings “OTR”. And maybe reporting on how much, if any, the dealers are adding to the MSRP stickers. Let alone the status of the Leaf, Fisker, Tesla, Project Better Place, Aptera, the BEV Focus, and who knows what all else. Pretty exciting times.
LJGTVWOTR!! NPNS!
Nov 25th, 2009 (5:29 pm)70% of the noise an average car makes come from its wheels on the road.
Nov 25th, 2009 (5:30 pm)I would be less noisy than conventional cars and doesn’t need to emit below 5mph and above 35mph.
Nov 25th, 2009 (6:13 pm)And I volunteer to deliver them one at a time.
Nov 25th, 2009 (7:18 pm)There are apparently only two of these cars: one right hand drive and one left hand drive. Both with white interiors. I don’t envy the people responsible for the tours with these babies. On the other hand the Leaf interior is considerably nicer than what we’re seeing in the Volt. GM really needs to do some work inside.
I sort of thought the blue T shirts and blonde hair on the Nissan crew were supposed to echo the car. Pretty weird actually. One of the slightly older blondes (probably 28) is the product manager and she definitely knows her stuff. Someone asked her about battery safety and she more or less went off — in a good way — including a comment that all that the battery would produce was non-toxic air at a temperature of 60 degrees F. I asked her whether the charger was J1711 compliant and she sort of laughed and said “I think you mean J1772, don’t you.”
Nov 25th, 2009 (7:38 pm)If the retail price goes up beyond the msrp at this time next year, wouldn’t that be possibly perceived as “scroogelike”. I don’t think that will happen, because: I’ll bet that 2010 will be the very best year of automotive sales ever, due to an exceptional economy, and, pent up demand.
Customers in the 161 shops I advise are bringing in cars that have been fairly well taken care of, but, still, when the economy heats up next Spring, I think people will just go ahead and just go get new vehicles anyway, in record numbers (especially commercial accounts, whose commercial operations managers in charge of their maintenance schedules and overdue repairs have been abysmally-dismal in their recommended preventive maintenance and needed repair approvals for all shops to do the overdue preventive maintenance, as I have witnessed in all shops). (It’s also just one of those feelings I get every four or five years about any number of various things).
Anyway, have a really enjoyable Thanksgiving everyone!!
Nov 25th, 2009 (8:50 pm)True however, nearly everyone has some form of temporary disability at some time. From slight injury to disorientation to recovery from broken limbs o a couple days in a wheelchai or on crutches. Maybe that takes the cost benefit analysis lower, dunno.
Anyway, when I was a kid I saw a lot of otherwise capable people locked out of productive lives by a seemingly endless series of barriers large and small, and thought ADA was a good and long overdue idea. Seems a lot better than having smart, organized and motivated people spending their entire lives waiting for the next Social Security check.
Oh, and how many backs are not thrown out, days are not lost at work, ICE cars are not left idling and traffic is not backed up by people wrestling baby carriages and strollers over curbs and stairways?
Nov 25th, 2009 (8:56 pm)Too loud, should be a gentle reminder. Driver activated as a standard horn.
I would not like it if it was continuous, even at any level.
If lawmakers want something that does not require driver operation, then it should be radar or other range sensing device that can detect a pedestrian within a angle and speed that could be dangerous, and then automatically sound.
Nov 25th, 2009 (9:22 pm)There are physical “cures” for some forms blindness that don’t necessarily work because the brain has already been trained to process information without sight. Especially for adults.
Imagine waking up suddenly on an extremely bright day without notice, from a long sleep in pitch darkness. Imagine the terrible blurriness and pain in your eyes, that does not go away. And the blurs and blobs of light in your vision do not match your conception of the world as you know it. It would be disconcerting, distracting disorienting and painful to say the least, and then Rashiid Amul comes up behind you in his wife’s silent car, honking at you!
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:21 pm)Standard equipment in the new Volt. A kid sound system. BOOM<BOOM<BOOM<BOOM ! You can hear them coming from at least two blocks away.
Oh, it must be a passive system so it can never be shut off.
Nov 25th, 2009 (10:43 pm)Audible signals at specific intersections are very helpful. I don’t oppose Nissan’s idea, a slightly amplified electric motor sound at very low speeds. A softer driver activated horn noise can be beneficial for many situations, not necessarily to alert a blind person as demonstrated in the video… i.e. alert driver of green light, avoid possible road rage incident, etc.. As a blind traveler, loud noises like buses, semi’s, loud subwoofers are more detrimental since they mask all other sounds helpful for orientation. This includes masking traffic patterns such as right turning cars. My preference would be to eliminate more noise to make it easier to hear quieter vehicles. My wife and I own a Prius now and look forward to buying a Volt or some other electric vehicle in the future.
Nov 26th, 2009 (1:05 am)My sympathies to the blind. The biggest protection the blind can have is alert drivers who are ready to stop for them. Having noisy vehicles suggests that the blind have good hearing which many of them don’t. If there was real concern about peds getting struct, then they should be made king of the road.
I think the real culprit is the cell phone user who’s either talking or texting on the phone but not paying attention to driving. It’s taken years for some jurisdictions to address the problem and now everyone is excited about quiet cars ?
There will still be tire noise and brake noise from electric vehicles but please no tweeters.
Nov 26th, 2009 (1:42 am)Cars already have a driver activated alert system; it is called a horn and the button to operate it is placed in a driver friendly location right on the steering wheel.
Nov 26th, 2009 (2:05 am)I think sound can be an issue even when people aren’t using an ipod or doing something stupid. This comes from my personal experience of completely not noticing a Tesla coming right at me when crossing a crosswalk back at school (the kind where there is no stop sign). It noticed me and I fairly quickly realized it was there, thankfully, but I can definitely see how someone could be hit by a distracted driver (or in the dark or with sun glare, etc.). Electric drive is VERY quiet- and the Volt may be even more dangerous since it won’t even have the Tesla’s high-pitched whine. That said, if I could have my choice of things to run me over, I think I would be most honored to be smooshed by an EV
As a daily biker, I have also noticed that Prii can sneak up on you although the regen sound often betrays them. I don’t fancy being run over by an even quieter Volt.
PS. I am not a fan of the modern obsession for overly PC language. That said, I am somewhat surprised by the evident lack of concern for the impaired and lack of tact displayed by some of the comments today. PC mumbo-jumbo should go out of style asap. Courtesy should not. My sister is learning to be an interpreter for the deaf so I suppose I may feel more strongly than most about this after hearing more about the particular issues such communities face. They don’t need or want to be coddled by the PC crowd and their vacuous terms (“differently abled” and all that jazz), but certainly they also deserve respect.
Nov 26th, 2009 (7:03 am)I disagree that only one method (horn) will suffice for the danger of not having propulsion sound. (Back up and try to keep your hand on the horn while turning the steering wheel to back out left or right).
Yesterday, (Thanksgiving Eve Day), I was at the grocery store. People were clearly overly rushed and wanted to come and go as fast as possible, as their vehicles impulsively darted forward and backward obviously without sufficient observing and patience. Just the way that it is going to be all too often.
Very large and very bright backup light lenses that curve around the sides might help observability of them, and, your intent. But when people are in a rush to get in and out, you have a “crowded theater exit” problem, and, far more than one or several “no-cost” solutions make sense. Who cares if there are some interesting tones at two automatically-controlled loudness levels emitted by the backup lights? I don’t. I’d sure want them there.
Drivers may just have to get used to using lots of extra caution for pedestrians when driving in EV mode, in addition to wanting all the other solutions that are at no cost, and, especially where most can be automatic.
Nov 26th, 2009 (7:56 am)So, before I am about to run over the blind person I didn’t see, as long as I activate this goofy chirp, I’m OK?
Nov 26th, 2009 (11:44 am)@ DonC #84
I like the Volt interior better. (and it has 2 cup holders vs. 0 for the Leaf)
Nov 27th, 2009 (12:19 pm)#95 is right – How am I supposed to know when to turn on my Volt’s noisemaker, for a blind person I’m about to hit, when I didn’t see the blind person until it was too late? Why do you think they call them “accidents”? – because we don’t do it on purpose. Minus several million for clear thinking, GM.
————————————————————-
And jeffhre #88 – If a normal person woke up one morning, and became blind overnight, the last thing they would do is walk through traffic blind. “Blind person here, I’m an idiot”, “Blind person here – don’t know any better”, “Blind person here – exercising my civil liberties”. Not likely.
A newly blind person would be sure they COULD navigate safely before walking through town, using audible crosswalks (where available), or using a sighted guide person or trained service animal. They aren’t going to stumble through the streets like Mr Magoo.
Here’s your sign. (Tip o’ the hat to Bill Engvall)
Nov 30th, 2009 (3:10 pm)I would recommend ‘click’ transducers that would produce a stream of clicks at the square of the speed in MPH. It has long been known that humans can easily use clicks to audibly perceive objects in their surroundings. The clicks would not only announce the presence of the car, but the echos would help point out other obstacles as well as the general movement of the car itself. Using the square of the speed in clicks would easily relay information about the vehicles speed.
1MPH = 1 Hz
3 MPH = 9 Hz
15 MPH = 225 Hz
30 MPH = 900 Hz
60 MPH = 3,600 Hz