I recently participated in a segment for the NBC Nightly News in the New York tri-state area. The piece is also being nationally syndicated.
The main thrust of the story was to illustrate how electric cars have already arrived on the streets and that in fact now is just the tip of the iceberg.
The reporter and I tooled around in my MINI E electric car and we discussed why it is important to me to drive on electricity.
I also took the opportunity to explain the concept of range anxiety and the value of the Chevy Volt. According to BMW’s Rich Steinberg only two out of 450 MINI-E drivers have actually run out of charge to the point of needing to be towed, but also points out the car has a limp-home low power feature when for when battery level becomes critically low..
You can watch the video segment in the viewer below:
There is also an accompanied written story by the reporter Brian Thompson here.
This entry was posted on Sunday, November 22nd, 2009 at 9:34 am and is filed under BEV, Video. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+3
Nov 22nd, 2009 (9:48 am)“According to BMW’s Rich Steinberg only two out of 450 MINI-E drivers have actually run out of charge to the point of needing to be towed, but also points out the car has a limp-home low power feature when for when battery level becomes critically low..”
I wonder how many would have run out of gas in a similar trial. The psychology is different because you can put energy in so quickly with gas but the point is still noteworthy. The problem with BEV’s will not be with people stranded on the side of the road, but rather will the range limitations restrict the available market too much for them to reach high production volumes. Can the range limitations be effectively overcome with other means (e.g. Project Better Place, generator trailers, fast charging, renting, dual car households) to open up the available market?
+1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (9:54 am)Cant watch the video, hopefully later on. Definitely the tip of the iceberg and expect a flood if gas goes over $4 a gallon again.
Note that the Mini drivers in this trial are highly motivated to drive electric.. not the typical person. Can we say the Mini is an 80 mile range electric?.. how would it have turned out if it had a real range of 150 miles?.. perhaps range anxiety is overblown.
+3
Nov 22nd, 2009 (9:56 am)Once again Lyle, great work.
I am sure we will begin to see many more reports like these as we get closer to VOLT’s launch. There is no telling how many people saw that report and learned about electric cars and VOLT for the first time.
More often than not, when I tell people about the VOLT, they have never heard of it and are not aware of the coming electric car revolution.
+1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (10:12 am)Way to go Lyle! We’re inside a year now and the opportunities for *all of us here* to get the word out will just snowball. Let’s keep the good word positive and shout the Volt’s praises!
Again, great job!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (10:16 am)Koz, you bring up very cogent points. Limited range irritation is the second problem BEV’s have to overcome, the first, and primary, is cost. Cost will never disappear as a problem, but it will be mitigated.
Of all the remedies for short range issues, the only two that will probably be acceptable to most non-evangelical BEV supporters will be fast charging and dual car households. The main thing I want to know is, how fast can a Leaf get charged from 10 miles remaining to 70 miles remaining. (If the Leaf can actually get 100 miles AER) I wouldn’t need a full charge for a city car, just get me to my next errand and home. The slow part of recharging a car is getting from 70% of capacity to 100%. Carrying that question one step further into the real world, how fast will I be able to recharge a Tesla S from 20 miles remaining to 112 miles remaining of its 160 AER. But even there, you can’t use the electric vehicle in the manner we have grown accustomed to on road trips. And while recharging in the daytime is not exactly optimal, but it is a nice tool to have in the toolchest.
Bring ‘em on, there is room for BEV’s and ER-EV’s of a multitude of types, some will fit the needs of more people, but all will fit the needs of some, and they will be powered with domestically produced electricity instead of foreign oil.
+1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (10:29 am)That would be fantastic! Unfortunately, it’s a relative measure. (Please don’t shoot the messenger.)
Let’s be realistic. Of the 8 to 9 million vehicles expected to be sold in the United States alone next year, how many will be electric?
There is a tremendous amount of potential. But volume & price will remain barriers for many years to come.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (10:31 am)Ziv, you beat me to it. Upfront costs are daunting, which is why I am a proponent of compressed air vehicles. The components for them are very cheap, low tech and low maintenance. Yes, they are less efficient than batteries, but more affordable.
+1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (10:36 am)Jason, Autobloggreen has an article on compressed air vehicles that is not exactly supportive. I am a believer in starting on a multitude of tracks, encouraging private companies to get creative, and I think that compressed air is just that sort of innovative leap of the mind that is worth encouraging. It probably won’t pan out on a large scale due to the lack of efficiency, but if there is a way to get cheap, efficient compressed air the negatives tend to disappear. I think that tidal and wave generation of compressed air are possibilities. But if you generate the compressed air from electrical or ICE pumps, you kind of defeat the purpose.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (10:38 am)Cost will be solved soon, but you have to realize that you will be saving money for many years to come by not having to buy gas.
+4
Nov 22nd, 2009 (10:38 am)You’re right, but that journey of a thousand miles still begins with that first step. I’m rooting for *all* of the electric vehicles to get a toe hold, then a foothold, etc. And I DO think that it’ll snowball. Although the pure number to be overcome is daunting, we need to get started with plugins. JMO
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+6
Nov 22nd, 2009 (10:40 am)12 months from now, I expect to see Mr. Lutz handing Lyle the keys to Serial #EV000001 on the Today Show!
Right after that, we’ll cut over to CNN for a reaction shot from Saudi Oil Shieks sobbing like little girls…. HA!
+1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (10:49 am)AS long as they don’t hand the keys over to a SHEIK. Then we’d all be sobbing.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (10:59 am)I think you are right Herm, range anxiety is currently overblown and will go away in the near future.
GM has told us that 40 miles is enough to satisfy the commuting needs of near 80% of the population, so even 80 miles should be more than enough for the majority of people. I personally would only have to charge about 4-5 times a month with 80 miles of range.
There will always be those people that typically need more than 80 miles (or whatever) between charges. But those people probably shouldn’t be driving the Volt either if they are spending that much time on the ICE.
+1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:01 am)Lyle seems to be getting a little more well known every few months. If he keeps this up, he might be known as “Lyle Dennis … the electric car guy”. Like Bill Nye, the science guy.
http://www.billnye.com/
I bet Lyle gets interviewed quite a bit next year right before and after the Volt hits the showrooms.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:06 am)Slightly more specifically it’d be Lyle Dennis the VOLT guy. After all, Lyle is a specialist. (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+2
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:10 am)Many households have 2-3 cars with kids & all that ..a BEV with 100 miles range for commuting & local travel ….2nd car cud be ICE or VOLT ..those who dont have 2nd car …just rent one for long distance travel ..problem is that many in US want to drive big SUV or hummers ..unless that mindset changes …Europe & other countries will surpass US in BEV & other type of propulsion …as usual everyone in US is short-sighted its citizens & the CEO of the comapnies …
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:12 am)Sobbing like little girls…Not!!! Recently one of OPEC’s top ministers, said after earning trillions from oil revenue and having the average Saudi receive $70,000.00 per year to sit on the couch and veg watching free satellite TV, that the west must soon pay reparation and compensation for NOT exploiting their oil anymore, because of conservation efforts and alternative fuel technology….How the heck did we get ourselves in this mess?
You see they’re not sobbing – they have a plan!
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:17 am)I refuse to sob…for at least as long as you keep your license current and insurance pays for the meds
-1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:19 am)Many households have at least one truck. Will be interesting if the public chooses to replace the gasoline truck or the gasoline family sedan with an electric drive vehicle. My guess is that the public will gravitate to electric sedans then move decidedly toward electric trucks in 2014.
BTW: Good going Lyle. Very nice TV piece.
=D~
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:21 am)Wow Lyle – totally mind blowing dude, looks like genuine concern and an internet connection can take a guy a long ways, great to see it and thanks.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:22 am)Great job again, Lyle!
The more face time electrics get on national TV, the better. As we all know from personal experience. no one we talk to in ‘regular’ contact even knows about electrics and have never heard of Volt.
The more electrics get on the news, the better the chance that customers will ask about them when at a dealership.
Even though the official launch dates for a bunch of electrics seems close, we are a good 3 to 4 years from having mass choices. I doubt that I will be test-driving any electric before fall 2012 or even later simply because none will be at a local dealer.
First time a caddy-white Volt shows up though. It’s sold! The test drive is usually a formality to me. I research for a long time before making a purchase. Once I’m on board though, have those papers ready to sign!
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:25 am)Oh, come on, Let it out, you’ll feel better. (Just renewed my license and your meds should be covered).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:32 am)Hliarious -LOL- I feel better already; check is in the mail
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:58 am)The BEV / EREV conversation has more to do with cultural norms than technology. If all of us could get to work / school/ stores/ social events within a 15-20 mile range daily, what would make more sense? BEV, EREV, motorcycle or moped.
If I can get to a public transportation hub within a 15/20 mile range (to take me to a center city destination, airport or rail line for trips greater than a 4 hour drive) would I be better off financially renting a vehicle for long range trips as opposed to owning one?
Most modern western societies have realized the long-term negative impact of using vehicles inefficiently (12 mpg SUV to take children to school) and impose CO2, registration and property tax rates to encourage efficiency and discourage waste.
I think it’s time for the US to rethink our transportation model and land use/ public transportation is where the dialog should begin. Cars will always be a depreciating asset and is not an investment.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:59 am)Lyle Dennis the EV guy,
Soon, fame will overtake you. Please don’t start pimping your wardrobe and draping two hot supermodels around your neck.
Then again…
Nov 22nd, 2009 (12:06 pm)How ’bout “Lyle Dennis, ICE menace”?
Nov 22nd, 2009 (12:10 pm)Once a person buys an electric vehicle, the cost problem has been overcome, for that person. Now, it’s on to the limited range irritation…
If an EV like the Leaf has a nominal 100 mile range, that’s great for commuting for most people, but I predict problems at night or the weekend. I can see a lot of new owners getting on the computer, using something like Mapquest or Google to find destinations within 50 miles, and getting some friends together to show their new electric car. Or coming home from work with 60 miles left on the battery, and going out to a restaurant within 30 miles.
With extra people in the car, the range goes down. With variable winds, the range goes down (actually, headwinds are not the worst, because winds from 45 deg off from headwind catch much more surface area, and the car is not streamlined from that direction). With unanticipated hills, the range goes down. Unless new EV owners are extremely cautious, I can see lots of “stranded by the side of the road” situations as EV’s become more popular.
I wonder if a new breed of tow truck will become popular – fast charging assistance, a quick, high-voltage partial charge to get you home. You pay for how long it takes them to charge you.
+3
Nov 22nd, 2009 (12:28 pm)I don’t at all think range anxiety is overblown one bit, because when you have those instances when “limp in mode” is active, and, you are only able to go 20 to 40 mph, all those people behind you who are impatient to get home or to their destinations won’t appreciate your slower pace not just a little bit, it would seem to me.
That is what will diminish BEV’s if someone must, in an emergency, go somewhere without a sufficient charge level.
Thanks for the reports Lyle.
(Just had to format-out all kinds of clutter that slowed my laptop. Hope this posts ok).
+1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (12:40 pm)Great video Lyle. “If I did, I wouldn’t have anywhere to put it.” Funny. These kind of statements will get people interested in never having to worry about going to the gas station, buying gas, gas prices, when you made the comment about the great feeling of running on home grown US electricity was a great way to put and then I think it really put people over the top watching you take approximately 2.5 seconds to plug in the Mini, made it look so easy, I think the simpleness of EVs are winning people over all the time as they watch these TV spots.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (12:43 pm)I agree and really don’t think “limping home” is going to do much to improve people’s confidence in electric vehicles – to say nothing about the *embarrassment* of limping home. I can see kids pointing and saying “Mommy, why is that nice car going so sloooo?” Reply: “It’s ok honey, our car uses *gasoline* so that won’t happen to us” Nice teachable moment….. (not).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (1:04 pm)AS for the Saudi shieks sobbing like little girls, well they already own half of ameican business’s and a good chunk of the world financed by 60 years of soaking our wealth out of us. At present they are still soaking us for oil and are also loaning us back that same money within american companies like citibank and charging us 29% interest.
We are the ones who should be sobbing as we are 20 years late with electric cars.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (1:05 pm)Most people are creatures of habit. They make the same weekly trips, month after month, year after year. I would expect within a few weeks of BEV ownership, you pretty much know the limitations of the BEV, and just use your other car when necessary.
Might be interesting to know how many times a month Lyle ends up driving his Mercedes.
It also would be interesting to know how often BEV owners are able to take advantage of opportunity charging (usually at work or at home(?)) and are able to stretch their 100 mi BEV into a xxx mi BEV on a regular basis.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (1:25 pm)Related,
If you’re a “traditional” automotive manufacturer or parts supplier, there are some strong reasons why you wouldn’t want to see BEV’s taking market share:
Electric Cars Push Japan Engine Parts Makers to Crisis Mode
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aPO1VGC5sElw
“Engine components account for as much as 40 percent of a typical car’s total parts…”
+2
Nov 22nd, 2009 (1:36 pm)As much as I love the Volt and the ability to drive on electric power, I may get some negative votes for saying this: With so little driving, buying any electric car would be a waste of money. It’s sort of like people who were trading in their SUVs for small cars two summers ago and were spending more on new car payments than what they were spending on gas with their SUV.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (1:50 pm)Right you are Carcus1, there is a stupendously huge infrastructure for ICE that is deeply rooted into the entire economy. Simply lifting it away is akin to lifting an oak tree out of the yard and if you do there is a rather big hole left. I think some out there prefer to rest their minds in the realm of magical thinking when it comes to this.
And is not the same as the horse/buggy change over though I see some connection.
The lads like going to the parts shop and repair place. They are still whining about the pending death of Saturn as they have some “friends” there. Oh what would they do if they could not. I rather suspect nothing too good and I hazard to guess what goes on in their dogie minds.
I have been gone a bit. I see yet another new format.
Have to go on a marathon training run. URI has gotten better.
Regards! Higgins and the Lads, Zeus & Apollo
+2
Nov 22nd, 2009 (1:51 pm)For those who brush off the “Who Killed The Electric Car” as whacky conspiracy… I think the linked article @ 33 illustrates the contrary as well as any. The shift to BEV’s would be not just a rocking of the boat, but more like dumping the boat . . . . a veeeery big boat. Auto manufacturers and suppliers see their whole business turned nearly upside down if BEV’s become common place, and we haven’t even started talking about oil or all the other ancillary businesses (jiffy lube, muffler shops, brake shops, auto zone, pep boys, etc. etc….)
Just drive down the street and look at how many businesses are ICE car dependent. Now imagine that all of these businesses likely take at least a 50% hit or worse if BEV’s started to dominate.
The “economic pressure” to hold off non fuel burning, low/no maintenance BEV’s is much greater than most realize.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (1:57 pm)Hey Higgins,
Glad to hear you’re back on track, …. . , or road or whatever.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (3:27 pm)38.
Guy Incognito Says:
November 22nd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Lyle, you’re doing more to advertise the Volt than GM is.
For real Lyle.
Thank you.
=D~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nov 22nd, 2009 (3:42 pm)My truck isn’t going anywhere. It doesn’t burn diesel sitting there. That’s the case most days now and will be the case once I get some sort of EREV.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (4:23 pm)Probably abou 500% more than this year and 2011 looks like it will be another 500-700% more than 2010. Tip of the spear seems a very appropriate description.
+1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (4:26 pm)Hey Tag,
That’s really true. Also imagine if that “limp home” mode was when it was really dark, and, someone coming up from behind has depth perception problems (inherited or imbibed). I would seriously be concerned about being rear-ended.
On another concern regarding electrics displacing ICE auto repair work. That won’t really **begin** to happen for about 6 years, as the transition to electric will be really more gradual, and, those new ICE vehicles just sold this year and last, won’t be coming online to the independent shops for at least 3 or 4 years from now on average. So, any decline in ICE servicing overall, really won’t be a factor until 2015 to 2017, and, very gradual after that.
What really will impact the independent shop in lost work way before then is that the service and diagnostics complexities (for the untrained) will displace many more of these “routine maintenance and repair” shops later this next year due to CAN (Controller Area Network) diagnostics requirements of the higher percentage of the vehicles coming in for highly complex diagnostics. (Although these shops certainly have smart people who can be brought up to speed).
Nov 22nd, 2009 (4:35 pm)The compressed air car will not work in America. Those cars are really light, and have few options. Maybe a compressed air motorcycle.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (4:46 pm)True, it already has been nearly solved IMO. Leasing the battery “solves” this for people only concerned about first cost. The first round of cost savings from mass production of automotive batteries will bring the $/(lifetime kwh) down the 20-30% that is needed for them to compete favorablynwith ICE+gas for TCO.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (4:53 pm)compressed air was never going to work, horrendous losses in storing the energy.. with all the disavantages of a high pressure tank. If you gotta have that tank then fill it with methane.
Nice Leaf article in the LA Times
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-neil20-2009nov20,0,5609464.column
“Two decades of computerization of the automobile have created a kind of well-oiled semiautonomous being, half semiconductor, half metal and glass. Many cars today have electric steering, electric brakes, virtual gauges, video camera mirrors, even virtual bumpers. In other words, cars are nearly electrified already.
The next logical — even inevitable — step in the evolution of the automobile is when we jettison the big, heavy, hammering, noisy piece of reciprocation under the hood.
The Leaf is definitely Car 2.0. Sweet, glycerin smooth, techy, frisky and even a little bit beautiful. It just feels like tomorrow. Perhaps the question is not “Will people buy them?” but “Can we build enough?”
“
-1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (4:59 pm)GXT #13 Says: “There will always be those people that typically need more than 80 miles (or whatever) between charges. But those people probably shouldn’t be driving the Volt either if they are spending that much time on the ICE.”
===================
I have to disagree with that statement. For my personal driving needs, an AER of 35 miles would work for six days per week. But once per week, I drive about 135 miles, so the Volt is the perfect solution for me. That is not range anxiety, it is range necessity!!!!
NPNS
Nov 22nd, 2009 (5:06 pm)Too late, the sheiks are already whining for subsidies if the world moves away from their money maker.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (5:25 pm)Compressed combustable gaseous fuel may end up being the answer as the range extender for EREVs.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (5:53 pm)Way to go, Lyle! (They better get you your CS mode ride, soon).
Nice segment, but wish I could watch it without all the fits and starts.
The number of people who want to do all their TV watching online would increase greatly if they could solve that little problem.
NOTE: The link for a written article brings up only another player for the video.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (7:18 pm)Sounds like a voltec truck to me.
-2
Nov 22nd, 2009 (7:38 pm)The other problem is the inefficient 12v electrical system. Manufacturers are hitting a wall on how many electrical thingers they can add because of this limitation.
With the higher voltages of electrics, these problems go away. My guess is that GM will use voltec tech in all cars just so the electrical system can handle the loads.
+3
Nov 22nd, 2009 (7:54 pm)Range anxiety is real, for those who have it.
For me I am willing to deal with it, and accept the trade off. Lets stopping telling everyone what is right or wrong about range anxiety, and let every individual vote with his wallet.
End of range anxiety story!
-1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (7:54 pm)Screw that! WHEN we finally cut of Arabs and Venezuelans from the trillions of our money, if they don’t like it, let them declare war. I think we can take them.
Of course, if at that time we have another limp azz president like the one we have now, I’m sure he or she will DOUBLE any “reparations” the shieks request.
God help us on that day!
+1
Nov 22nd, 2009 (7:57 pm)I heard alot about this problem about 10 years ago, but I thought the problem had been solved with more efficient instruments and electronics. Anyone else know if 12 volts is still a limitation?
Nov 22nd, 2009 (8:02 pm)Maybe, but it won’t be quite so easy.
For one thing you still have high voltage DC. So, if you want to plug in you still need a dc-ac converter.
Yes, GM could build an on-board converter, but how big, and at what price?
Next you have all the safety issues that would arise if now your vehicle is equiped to provide 120 Vac, or maybe just high voltage DC. Your entering into low voltage directives (PELV), which will drive the cost of this, and now your liable for accidents caused by your higher voltage outlets.
Seems like a good idea on the surface, but I wonder if automakers are going to support it.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (8:08 pm)The problem with 12 volt systems in cars, is that if you want to deliver power, you need a LOT of copper.
To run a simple notebook using, for example, 120 watts, than you need the copper to carry 10 amps. I think this would translate to 16-18 awg wire. Now, say you have a couple kids, and your wife all wanting to run thier equipment simulateously, now you need to deliver 30 amps (assuming all running 120 watt items).
The wiring is difficult and expensive. You cannot just run a pair 16 awg wires from fuse panel to each outlet, you need to run 3 pairs, or you run a single pair of about 12 AWG, and daisy chain down the line.
12V sucks if you want to deliver real power in a vehicle!
Nov 22nd, 2009 (8:16 pm)BTW: If your daugher decides she wants to plug in her 1200 W hairdryer, into your 12V outlet, your going to need wire similiar to those coming into the mains of your house (well, if you own an old house, with 100 amp service, that is)
Nov 22nd, 2009 (9:07 pm)Congratulations to Lyle for working tirelessly to promote EV cars. We owe you a debt of gratitude.
With respect to Lyle’s self described “plug” for EREV, having gone with some “normal” people to see the Volt and Leaf this weekend (normal meaning people who have a passing familiarity with the concept of EVs but haven’t spent much time researching them), I can tell you that GM has the winning formula with EREV and that range anxiety is definitely real and not, as some have suggested, going away anytime soon.
I don’t see his enthusiasm for EREV as a plug for the Volt. More a recognition of the fact that pure BEVs will be a tough sell.
-2
Nov 22nd, 2009 (9:17 pm)13 GXT said … I think you are right Herm, range anxiety is currently overblown and will go away in the near future.
GM has told us that 40 miles is enough to satisfy the commuting needs of near 80% of the population, so even 80 miles should be more than enough for the majority of people. I personally would only have to charge about 4-5 times a month with 80 miles of range.
There will always be those people that typically need more than 80 miles (or whatever) between charges. But those people probably shouldn’t be driving the Volt either if they are spending that much time on the ICE.
————————————————————————-
“those people probably shouldn’t be driving the Volt”? Those people?
Sounds a little elitist, doesn’t it. Perhaps you could have your manservant serve you high tea and buttered scones while sitting in your Volt – just to let the peasants know who’s boss. Yes, you sound that arrogant. Are you afraid that if more people want a Volt, you might not get one. Hmmm…some people do hide their fears with arrogance – classic example: Dr. Smith from the Lost in Space series.
Really, your arguments do not apply to the Volt, as the Volt is range anxiety-free. Your arguments DO apply to the Leaf. I cannot see the Leaf being a big seller in the US, because so many destinations are more than 40 miles away. “Hey, you old grump, the Leaf gets 100 miles a charge.” Sure, but subtract 20 miles for heat or ac, and with accessories like lights (at night), or stereo (forget about subwoofers), and you’re left with 80 miles. That’s a 40 mile leash, if you plan to drive home.
Remember that trip when you were almost on empty, and there wasn’t a gas station for miles? That ache in the pit of your stomach, thinking about running out of gas in the middle of nowhere? THAT’S range anxiety. And it’s REAL. Fortunately, the Volt is range anxiety-free. The Leaf has range anxiety built-in.
Even a grump like myself with a 42 mile one-way commute can benefit from the Volt. If I run out the battery at 40 miles, and run on the genset for 44 miles, I still get well over 100 MPG – that beats the stuffing out of my 20 MPG Honda minivan.
+3
Nov 22nd, 2009 (9:52 pm)One mans anxiety, is an others freedom. Why are you so concerned that someone “feel” range anxiety?
I simply do not. Why, do people insist that, those who claim not to have range anxiety, must be wrong, and need to be righted.
Talk about elitist speak, Old Man, yours hits much closer to the mark.
Perhaps, someone should be telling us who we need to vote for in the next election, because only the chosen understand the issues, and it is for the good of all.
Ok, rant mode is disabled….time for an early Thanksgiving day drink.
PS: Do you think Christopher Columbus experienced range anxiety, on the Mayflower? If so, he likely would have turned around and never made the trip.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (9:53 pm)video freezes afer 5 seconds
Nov 22nd, 2009 (10:51 pm)I agree,
On a 100 point scale the Volt was a 100, the Leaf around 55.
I was there with Mini-E #163. This was my first look at the Volt and the Leaf, what I saw was the best GM car ever. I love the 68 and 2010 Camero as well as a few of the Vette’s, but, the Volt was tops.
It is better in person than in the pics. It looked like a milion bucks.
The Leaf looked like a 12k Versa, good luck getting more than 60 miles at 80 mph. Leased battery? No, Nada, seeyalater.
It’s between BMW and GM as to who is going to get my next 50K!
Cheers
Peder #183
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:22 pm)Hi Peter. Had I known you were there we would have tried to stop and chat.
I didn’t think the Leaf looked so bad. I thought the front was very attractive and the sides perfectly fine. The rear end? Pretty ugly as they say. The interior was quite lovely, way better than the Volt. You might not have been able to get close enough to evaluate the inside. The day before the Leaf was at Qualcomm and you could actually get in the car. Really nicely finished off. Hopefully GM will spend some more on the interior to make the Volt comparable — way too much plastic at the moment.
The big issue for the people I was with was the 100 mile range for the Leaf, which probably wouldn’t be 100 miles. They just vastly preferred an EREV like the Volt to a BEV like the Leaf or the Mini.
You probably didn’t get to go to the Leaf presentation. If you didn’t you missed nothing — it was awful. They had some guy who knew very little talk through a bunch of slides that weren’t his. The 30-something blonde woman with the Nissan group was the Leaf product manager and she knew just about everything. I’m puzzled why she didn’t do the presentation.
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:38 pm)It’s not a question of right or wrong. It’s really how most people feel. I think I’d be perfectly happy with a BEV. I’m not 100% sure but I suspect I could handle it without too much issue. But I can tell you that the vast majority of people I’ve talked to about it — and every woman — has basically said that they don’t want to be in a position where they can run out of battery. I’m dealing with a small sample, but with near unanimity on the issue I’m thinking the vast majority will think range is an issue. At least initially.
Very tangentially, I wouldn’t use Columbus as a good example of how to do something. The guy was a complete fool who got lucky. The story is that people told him the world was flat, but this is a crock. Eratosthenes had calculated the size of the spherical earth in the first century BCE, and the King’s advisers at the Spanish Court knew all about his calculations. These folks knew the size of the earth, the distance to the Far East (from the land routes), and how far a ship could go in a day. Putting the information together, they told Columbus that he’d run out of food and water before he got there — it was too far to sail given the existing technology. Columbus got lucky. He was running out of food and water when he ran into a new unknown land mass.
But you can’t count on getting lucky every time ….
Nov 22nd, 2009 (11:48 pm)I really, really like the Volt interior.
I got a chance to sit in the front seats. I loved the LED lighting and the comfort of the seats and the tech of the dash ov the Volt. Especially the long LED arch illuminating the rear seats.
I did miss the Leaf presentation. Too busy gabbing about the Mini-E.
OK, Both the Leaf and Volt are a huge step forward.
My gut tells me that GM has been very honest, understating and over performing and Nissan has been the opposite. The battery leasing they said was not going to happen on the US cars (it is) No, Nada, Seeyalater and is not attractive to me as a consumer, and the 100 mile range is not real world. It is the same test cycle that the Mini E did with 154 miles and the real world on the Mini-E is around 100 to 110.
That aside I am soooooo ready to get of fossil fuel. I love that the majors are in the game.
Cheers
Peder
Nov 23rd, 2009 (12:40 am)Somebody help me out here…
If I was driving a Volt, had plenty of gas and charge, and I see Lyle on the side of the road with no charge on his Mini-E (I know, this would never happen – Lyle will be on the Volt long before me, and is way too smart to ever “run out” of charge), would I be able to help him out and give him a charge one car to the other? It seems much more viable than siphoning my gas these days, and not nearly as ludicrous. With V2G talk, I figure the cord ought to have two-way capability, but charging software and lack of universality might get in the way…
Nov 23rd, 2009 (1:26 am)Interesting article on autobloggreen recently about how 39% of the cost of ownership of a vehicle is depreciation. Then you’ve got 15% is fuel, maintenance etc. All of these things will be much cheaper for EV owners. With no transmission or other engine parts to worry about wearing out and failing, besides no fuel, but no oil changes, air filter, fuel filter, issues, no transmission to wear out, no need to worry about engine parts wearing out and losing power and efficiency over the years. Besides, tires, brakes, and suspension, there is practically nothing that needs to be maintained on an EV (with the long lasting batteries like the Toshiba SCiB and next gen LG Chem etc. that should do 15-20 years easy), and they should command a much higher resale value. In reality, it probably won’t take long for EVs to be able to legitimately compete with ICE vehicles. As the dollar keeps tanking, and oil prices go up…
Nov 23rd, 2009 (1:29 am)I doubt it. Not in the gen 1. I could be wrong though. Seems Pasowatz or someone talked about “easily” being able to run your house off your Volt with the proper set up. Why not another EV?
+1
Nov 23rd, 2009 (4:18 am)Again with the range anxiety thing. We get it, BEVs have limited range. Don’t buy one then if that’s a big issue. Yes, I get there is a need to tell general consumers to be aware of this limitation, but we don’t have to convince them into not buying an BEV by focusing on this point. Again this is counter productive, since it’s only convincing possible buyers of BEVs to switch to PHEV or EREV, or maybe not buying any of them at all, which I feel is moving backwards, since the ultimate goal of plug-ins is complete electrification (or close). If there are people willing to try a BEV and deal with the limitations, we should be pushing them forward, not trying to scare them away.
The biggest competitor of EREVs and PHEVs shouldn’t be the BEV; if that’s the case, the plug-in market will always be small. EREVs and PHEVs should be targeting the hybrids and conventional cars. EREVs and PHEVs can work for anyone today and it should use that as an advantage to break into the mainstream market, not to steal sales from BEVs, which only has a limited market so far.
Nov 23rd, 2009 (6:47 am)Range anxiety is real. I just had to deal with that on the 2002 Elantra.
I had been driving quite a while with the fuel light on. I was sweating it out getting to a gas station.
What makes the range anxiety issue different between my Elantra and the Volt? The Volt has a backup system called an ICE.
This is the best damn idea GM has come up with. Range anxiety goes away with the Volt. How perfect is that?
+1
Nov 23rd, 2009 (7:31 am)JEC #58 Says: “PS: Do you think Christopher Columbus experienced range anxiety, on the Mayflower? If so, he likely would have turned around and never made the trip.”
Why don’t we take a small break for some fact checking?
I know it is close to Thanksgiving and all, but Christopher Columbus on the Mayflower??? That ship sailed 114 years after he passed away…….
Now back to your regular Volt discussion!
NPNS
Nov 23rd, 2009 (9:18 am)“According to BMW’s Rich Steinberg only two out of 450 MINI-E drivers have actually run out of charge to the point of needing to be towed, but also points out the car has a limp-home low power feature when for when battery level becomes critically low..”
Note how that number grows – 100,000 E-Mini = about 444 people sitting on the side of the road waiting for a tow. Or how about 4444 people stranded for 1 million sold. Not good and Rich is misisng the entire point. This does not mean the other 448 did not have range anxiety.
Nov 23rd, 2009 (11:20 am)#6
Somebody’s gotta be first.
Nov 23rd, 2009 (11:26 am)#69
Yeah, my S-10 will go about 125 miles with the fuel light on, so I basically ignore it. Range anxiety every tank, LOL. If I go on a trip with my Volt, I wll probably end up with my wife yelling !@#$%^ stop for gas before we run out!
The big difference is, as somebody pointed out above, that you can fill up the tank for the “range extender” in about 5 minutes. Depending on the size of the tank, of course, hahaha.
Nov 23rd, 2009 (11:52 am)That is my observation also.
+1
Nov 23rd, 2009 (1:35 pm)Lyle – Great posts / news the past few days – added to the very long list of excellent posts since the beginning of GM-Volt.com.
Thanks again for taking your personal interest to a level where so many others could benefit. Believe too there is consensus among many on this board that your efforts here in promoting interest in EREVs / EVs have at least in part accelerated the development and arrival of some viable choices.
Nov 23rd, 2009 (2:41 pm)My solution for range anxiety: a $130 2-stroke generator from Harbor Freight.
Pull it out of the trunk and let it charge for an hour (.8kWh). Should be enough to get you to you home…or at least to the next exit. LOL I’m kidding, but I’m kinda serious.
Nov 23rd, 2009 (6:24 pm)Though ultimately the Volt is susceptible to the same range anxiety as an Elantra or anything else, for exactly the same reason. Out of gas will still be out of gas, at least until the cold-fusion range extender becomes available.
Nov 24th, 2009 (3:00 am)thumbs up