AND 
Lutz Says Volt SS a Possibility, Cadillac Converj Reportedly Greenlighted for Production
Cadillac Converj
The Chevy Volt is designed to have a sporty feel. It will cover 0 to 60 in under 9 seconds and can chirp its wheels from a stopped position to to instantaneous torque.
Engineers have found a balance to both achieve 40 miles of gas free driving yet still allow the car to deliver a feeling of power. It is estimated driving the Volt will as though it has a 250 horsepower engine.
Recently GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz was asked whether GM was moving away from performance cars instead focusing on fuel efficiency.
He responded “as the trend grows for vegetarianism the fruit and vegetable isles will expand but the meat counters won’t go away.” He predicts performance cars will exist because there will always be buyers, but they will become electrified.
“I would forecast that certainly there will be a growing trend to high performance hybrids,” he said.
When specifically asked if we would one day see a Volt SS he said with a wry smile “I would not discount that possibility.”
“That Voltec architecture with the lithium ion battery and the small engine gives us all kinds of possibility on when we run the engine, when we don’t run the engine, how hard we run it, how fast we charge the battery and so forth,” he said. “So if we want to sacrifice a little bit of fuel efficiency in the interest of performance and still get over 200 miles per gallon, we can do that any time”
Shortly after this interview the Detroit News reported that anonymous GM sources indicate the Cadillac Converj has been greenlighted for production. In fact Lutz’ wry smile in the video may be due to that fact.
An official announcement is likely coming soon.
The Converj will offer increased performance out of the same battery pack with some limitation in range. Lutz once said the car would cost the same as two Volts, or about $80,000.
The source also said it could be a few years for the Converj to make it to showrooms. I would also expect a name change in this case.
Source (Fox)
and (Detroit News)
120 Responses to “Lutz Says Volt SS a Possibility, Cadillac Converj Reportedly Greenlighted for Production”
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November 9th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Bob Lutz, LOL.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Wow, Bob was really pushing E85. Way to go Bob!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
November 9th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Gee, Lyle you are right on top of things! No, not surprized.
See http://detnews.com/article/20091109/AUTO01/911090394/GM-to-put-electric-Cadillac-Converj-into-production
November 9th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
“Shortly after this interview the Detroit News reported that anonymous GM sources indicate the Cadillac Converj has been greenlighted for production.”
Hopefully it will be built here in Michigan also we need the jobs.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
This is exciting news! The only thing I hope GM does is make the production model look as close to the concept as possible. It CAN NOT look like Volt or Ampera and must have its own Art&Science sheet metal. It also seems to me that they could also offer a slightly bigger battery to give it more Electric only range than Volt to give the premium buyer somthing special. Lastly I hope GM offers both Sedan and Coupe versions of Converj. This makes me wonder if perhaps GM has Plans for a Buick version too. I’m sure the Buick-GMC dealers won’t want to be left out.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
What happened to the small SUV 2-mode?
November 9th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
If the source the Detroit News interviewed can indeed be trusted, and the Converj is definitely a GO!, then I welcome this. I’ve been smitten with this car since they introduced it. If I had the funds, the Converj and the Tesla S would be on the shortest of short lists. Beautiful designs IMO. The Converj makes the most sense from a practicality stand point for most people due to EREV. It also makes the most sense for GM as a vehicle that would pay the rent for the investment GM is making into the Voltec platform.
I’m soooo hoping the Converj is definitely coming and hoping it keeps the looks of the concept in tact as much as possible.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
I was hoping and wishing very hard for the Converj to be a production car. This is great news!
Instead of greater AER, I would like more power (ala Karma) by using the generator and traction motors together more often. Cadillac owners don’t really worry about gas mileage or electric-only mileage.
An SS version of Volt is probably in the cards as well. Tweaks to be posted profusely on how to convert a ‘regular’ Volt to an SS
Like they have said in the commercial: ‘When you turn on your car, does it return the favor?”
November 9th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
E-85 in a Converj means the car will be good for about 200 miles between fillups. I thought Bob understsood ‘range anxiety?’
November 9th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
(click to show comment)
November 9th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Lyle, as always a stellar job getting the scoop!
No doubt GM will have multiple variants coming out in future years based on EREV technology – all exciting stuff!
BUT, before we get carried away with SS’s and Converj’s let’s get the VOLT on the road!!!
Go GM. Go VOLT. Bring it on!!!
November 9th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
I think it safe to say at this point that it has been “absorbed into the normal vehicle development program”. Maybe it will be re-excreted later on down the line.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
I suspect that he (and you) knows that range anxiety is more an issue related to BEV’s
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
November 9th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
This is great news; can’t do it fast enough. Electric powered cars are tailor-made for the luxury class, given their smooth, quiet power delivery. Which won’t really be terribly welcome with a performance car version. But – quick, easy handling and smooth, rapid acceleration should definitely be attractions.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Amen to the wheels on the road!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
November 9th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Bravo!
Now get the green light on the Rivera Concept.
Do not fall asleep at the switch again.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
I sure hope you meant Riviera concept, because this is what I consider to be a good concept of a Rivera…
November 9th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
YES!! Now if only I had hte money for that car…. if depreciation for that car is like other American cars, maybe I could afford one used someday…
November 9th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
I wonder which way GM will go when batteries get better. More HP or more mpg? I hope they don’t opt for more cabin comforts.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Nice looking Caddy. At $80k they are going to get a lot of competition. At that price, those who can afford it won’t be thinking too much about cost per mile, maybe those who think green.
Hey GM, what about a nice looking 2 door volt coupe for us who can’t afford the Caddy?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
$80k for a Converj …. not even in my ball park …. but neither is a ZR-1.
Of topic. I have a friend that works for Honda here in Ohio. Sunday I got to take a test ride in the new Acura ZDX that he had for the weekend. Sharp. The interior of the car was very sharp and similar to Volt photos (center stack screens and back lit buttons). If the Volt is anything near the ZDX quality we will hear no complaints. (I have a feeling it will be.) Being 6′2″ my head hit the roof in the back seat of the ZDX but the fit and finish was very clean. $45k-60k (depending on options) it is not a car I would think about buying but very nice. It should compete with the A6 Quattro and 5 series quite nicely.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
I’ve admired GM for trying to get first generation E-REV into a Chevy but like most have thought it would have made more sense to introduce it first in a higher end model like the Converj, an approach which would have allowed GM to introduce a vehicle at a much higher price point. My guess is that they badly miscalculated the cost. When the Volt was introduced Lutz was talking about a $30K Chevy with a $7.5K tax credit, which is definitely a car the Chevy demographic could get interested in. A $40K+ car not so much.
I love the idea of GM going 100% E85. That would be great, especially if the bio-fuel companies start making celluosic ethanol for less than a $1/gallon. E-REVs with E85 make for a wonderful combination for all kinds of reason.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
While there are differing opinions on this board about the value Bob Lutz brings to GM, his continued presence there bodes well for product variants the performance enthusiasts among us should appreciate.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Just a month ago a GM rep stated that the Converj was “not a go”. The reason being that the Voltec program is focused on getting a quality gen 1 & 2 Volt into the hands of consumers before widening the program base.
I see three reasons this original plan may have been changed. NGMCO may be turning an unexpectedly higher profit. The “board” may have pulled rank on floor management. Consumer surveys, dealer feedback buzz, and competitors production announcements may have created a new forward thinking electric reality.
To be caught with only a 4 seat freeway sedan as other manufactures are cranking out crossovers (BYD), city cars (Nissan), sports models (Tesla), and pick-ups (Phoenix) is worrying.
It’s obvious that NGMCO has the most advanced electric car in the world. The Tesla has been pieced together garage kit style. Nice, but still pieced together. The BYD is being introduced as a plain and undeveloped project with much future improvement expected as consumers perform the vehicle testing. This will bite BYD in the end and create a wide opening for NGMCO to drive through.
I expect Korea to surprise with an electric Soul model. And Ford may be working on more than the BEV Focus. Maybe an electric Escape?
=D~
November 9th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
A Volt-SS??
This is the first reason I have heard why it may be better that GM does a limited rollout of the Volt.
By the time it actually becomes available in Youngstown, OH, maybe I can get the SS model instead!!!!
Oh wait – they would probably do a limited release of that model too……………
Just get me an E-REV vehicle I can buy, before I am too old to enjoy it!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
And you can say what you want about Bob Lutz, but at his age, I think he still shows the excitement of a teenager when he talks about cars!
November 9th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, GM’s most recent real world production action, making GM’s actions speak louder than words statement of what it considers cutting edge style, technology and efficiency for the start of the second decade of the 21st century:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20091109/ANA05/911099985/1263
Where’s the variant that gets maximum torque at 0 rpm and instant strong near linear acceleration available at all times, for us REAL performance enthusiasts?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Cadillac Converj:
A 24 kWh battery would be a few $thousand more. Maybe go for 32 kWh if the Converj is coming out in 2014 or so.
A 250 hp electric motor, not much more expensive than 150 hp.
Add a luxurious trim, upgrade the power electronics, swap out the genset for a bigger 125 hp one, and you have yourself a luxury, performing series hybrid (or range extended electric car).
You probably need a new platform to put the bigger battery and genset on, but most of the engineering hurdles will have been met by the Volt. This would be standard, new model engineering.
It would be a mistake to just put makeup on the Chevy Volt.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
2015 will be a great year for car sales, if we can stay afloat till then.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
I’m looking forward to it. Maybe I should make a move to Cadillac.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
#10
I agree. +1
I wonder how many “dual mode” Escalades they’ve sold at $70K +? Not very many. So, if the idea is to get high mileage cars into the hands of the public and make a difference in oil consumption, an $80K Cadillac is not the answer, IMHO.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Bob incomprehensible, idiotic, insensible Lutz: “as the trend grows for vegetarianism the fruit and vegetable isles will expand but the meat counters won’t go away.”
So, when the entirely scavenging/meat-eating protohumans discovered that they could use fire to break down the starches in plants to become digestible sugars, and in doing so became more tied to a place where such things could be grown, which eventually grew into permanent settlements, and so civilization was born; at the time General Cave Chairman “Maximum Ug” Ug Lutz proclaimed THE EXACT SAME THING.
tl;dr summary:
Bob Lutz, AD 2009: “The hot rods I loved in the 60’s will NEVER GO AWAY!:
Ug Lutz, 10000 BC: “The mastodons I loved in the 10060’s will NEVER GO AWAY!”
P.S. What’s an “SS”? Does it burn more gas? AWESOME. In my entire life, American car companies have never built a single car I’ve wanted. The Volt will be the first one. Don’t screw it up by trying to fossil-fuel-it-up. I DON’T WANT A GAS BURNER.
Again, relating to the subject of vegetarianism, why spend so much effort making something resemble what it isn’t? Like veggie burgers that taste like meat? There’s no sense in it. A friend once observed “Why do that? You give up meat, you don’t want a substitute. Do priests buy a lot of blow-up sex dolls?”
November 9th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Finally a decent interview format that really lets Bob be at his best. (Thank you FOX, for having a savvy interview).
A Volt SS would be the ultimate version in my book.
(Bob, can you get engineering to “green light” a Volt for me with the SS performance software if I am lucky enough to get a Volt?)
I promise to talk to Britta every day on the OnStar to get the “green light” before I blow the doors off of all those pony cars out there.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
#23
I’m a “performance enthusiast” but, if they don’t get some product into the dealerships to compete successfully with the Yaris/Fit/Versa, Civic/Corolla/Sentra, and the various offerings from Hyundai, Kia, et al, GM will disapper before they get very many of those “variants” into our hands.
If GM is going to sell enough cars to survive, that’s where Mr. Lutz needs to focus his efforts, not on the “Volt SS”. We don’t need another GTO or G8, just for example.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Not everyone is concerned with mileage and many have the money to purchase what they want to purchase. Whats wrong with having something for most everyone?
November 9th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
#30
That’s kind of what I was trying to say at #1, but you did a lot better job of it, LOL.
As to priests, I dunno. Do you think?
November 9th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
The Volt SS is just going to be a high performance software subroutine, I’d bet.
There are so very many incredible and crazy-good things that you can do with just software at this point, that the only physical difference to the vehicle might be the “Volt SS” stickers on the left, right, and rear of the car.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
#33
Nothing. That’s the goal. If you build cool high performance cars for people who don’t care about gas mileage, and 90% of the population buys Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, Hyundais and Kias, you are out of business, That’s my concern.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
$80,000 is too high for a compact car. $67,000 makes more sense, which would be $60,000 after the tax credit.
But in any case, I’m glad to hear they have given the Converj the green light. Let’s hope they do the same with an EREV Orlando. Those 3 vehicles would cover a significant portion of the market.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
But Noel, what Bob is telling us here is that with Voltec, we can have our cake (high fuel efficiencies all over the place), as well as eat our cake too (occasionally blow to doors off of pony cars), just because we want to, when we want to, because the high performance might be a selectable software subroutine when we want it. (And, I’d bet you likely can lock out the “SS” subroutine for when your kids want to drive your Volt SS.)
Now this is where Bob’s leadership will carry the day for selectable performance, from my technical experience with GM Program Control Module capabilities down through the last 30 years. I like EVERYTHING EXACTLY like Bob says a lot. REALLY A LOT!!!
November 9th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
#37
I’m not interested in the Converj, but the Orlando could be a useful business vehicle. I hope that they would offer it in a stripper business oriented option. Based on what they did with the 2 mode pickups however, it’s probably too much to hope for. At least in my lifetime, LOL.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Keep pushing the cell E85 Bob! Give me the option with the Volt and I’ll take it. Bang on Obama about it.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Hey CJS, where the heck are you, dude? Time to “toast” Bob for a Volt SS version.
What’s your take?
November 9th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Awesome. Great news.
You just knew that “Maximum Bob” Lutz was going to get some sort of high performance Voltec vehicle into production as some point. If there’s going to be a market for high end Teslas and Fiskers, I’m sure there’s going to be room in that market for the Converj.
There’s plenty of people who like to buy the latest and greatest technology out there. They’ll think of the Converj as a futuristic, Star Trek type vehicle and they’ll be one of the first people in the world to own one. I’m sure GM will put their best engineers and designers on the project and make the Converj as good as possible.
Hopefully, they can tweak the powertrain so that it can go 0-60 mph in 5-6 seconds. Maybe better. I’m sure that there will maybe 3-4 powertrain modes so you can get the best of all worlds. A fuel economy mode for when you know you’re going to be stuck in traffic going slow anyway and a performance mode for when you want to show off the speed of the car with a friend or a date or whatever. Maybe a highway cruising mode and a hill climbing mode too. Whatever makes the Converj a better car.
I hope GM works with the people at the car magazines and other experts so that the Converj ends up with excellent reviews and all that. Cadillac could use a halo car and all the good publicity that goes with it. Cadillac needs to be super competitive with ALL their cars vs. BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus, Acura, etc. They need to become one of the top 5 brands that people go to year after year when it’s time to get a new car in the luxury/performance segment.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Excellent news for Cadillac and their customers. I expect it will be a big hit.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
I’m glad they’re building the converj. It always made sense from a business point of view.
By the way, I found Lutz’s “10 year” time frame really interesting. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but I would have said 15 or 20 before they transitioned to cars like the CTS…
November 9th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
General Motors — $105 million awarded for construction of U.S. manufacturing capabilities to produce the second-generation GM global rear-wheel electric drive system. Facility in Wixom
Is this 105 million on work for converj or oralndo ? ( So i am sure they will come with limited edition for sure – people will ask where is the output of the award )
November 9th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Noel Park,
you have been on this blog for some time (unless there is more than one of you) and should know that the Chevy Volt is the EV for the masses. GM would like to offer a luxury EV to those who want a car which is really classy; i.e., the Converj. You can expect GM to bring out EV’s in every model. If need be GM will engineer a different plateform. Expect GM hybrid trucks to be EREV alla Raser Technologies or similar. Take a look at what they did to electrify a Hummer. This was done with GM’s help.
http://www.rasertech.com/media/videos/the-electric-h3
Raser Technologies has demonstrated that EREV can be applied to heavier vehicles. The EREV concept can be applied across the board much as Bob Lutz has said with regard to an SS Volt or the Converj.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
I hope they keep the body desgin on the production Converj very very close to the concept version. Also giving it some more electric only range and power will justify the higher price.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
They should keep the Volt electric motor on the front wheels, and add another one just like it on the back wheels. That ought to do it.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Wow, I came to post on the last thread, which I did enjoy reading and get this thread. How fortuitous. It was hinted that there could be a linkup of the electric motor, generator and the ICE in some unusual manner. Of course in range extended version they would all be in use to propel the car. ICE drives generator, which drives electric motor. The thread hinted that the electric motor and generator would be somehow linked. Odds are that would be some sort of programing linkage, to keep the speed the same, however the mechanical linkage could not be ruled out by the statment…
IF all three, motor generate and ICE were producing positive torque, because of a mechanical linkage, I would think we would have a SS.
WAG on my part. 150hp traction motor, 75hp generator and another 75hp ICE =300hp. Now if a 150hp feels like 250hp we can add another 150hp so Volt SS would feel like 450hp. In reality the ICE could not kick in until sufficient speed is achieved so we would have a somewhat “peaky” output. However at low speed tire slip would be a limiting factor….
Cheers
Red
November 9th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
No surprise. The dual-mode ‘Slade gives no significant gain in anything except price.
The EFlex Caddy, in contrast, offers material gains (over its hypothetical all-ICE cousin) in a lot of areas–giving an unparalleled combo of acceleration, handling, coolness, exclusivity, greenness, etc. It’s a “YES, you CAN have it all!” and “NO compromises. NONE!” kind of approach.
Expect high volume, though? Of course not. No two seater is going to sell much. For high volume GM needs the Volt, a smaller and larger version of it, an SUV or two and a small truck, i.e., blanket the high volume categories. But they can’t afford to do that until EFlex makes money. Hence the Caddy now. Halo vehicle and money-maker.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
I agree Dan. GM will be able spread the cost of engineering the Voltec technology over many vehicles. The software can be set for the type of vehicle, and other parts can be upgraded to unsure lasting performance. This will definitely help GM to increase its profit margin and lower the price of their EREV line of vehicles.
Next should be light duty trucks; Raser Technologies has already partnered with GM on the hummer. Take a look at this Raser Technology link:
http://www.rasertech.com/motors-and-drives/products/drive-systems/series-phev-drive-system
Correct me if I’m wrong but this looks like a GMC Sierra to me.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Reports from early 2009 mention RWD for the Converj. High end buyers will be attracted to the smooth and quiet torque. Advertisements in medical publications and golf magazines will generate a good deal of interest.
=D~
November 9th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Now that’s exactly what lots of folks here in Texas would be looking for in a new truck. Great link! Greatly appreciated!!
November 9th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
I don’t look at the Converj as “THE” answer, but I do feel it is one of the necessary components in the equation that ultimately yields an oil-free world. Expensive vehicles like the Teslas, the Fiskers, the Escalade 2-mode, the Converj, even the Volt pave the way for less expensive brethren. I’m fine with it if cars like these turn out to be the conduit for mass EV adoption. Just my opinion.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
Good point!
Too many people pigeon-hole the Orlando as a family car, but there are a ton of other uses for a small cargo vehicle. And as I’ve said before, if you market it as a family car, it will fail. But if you market it for rock bands, mountain climbers, ski weekends, stuff from home depot, etc, etc, then you get a wide and exciting market, and families will come along for the ride.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
EREVs are FWD. You need the center hump for the battery, so there’s no place to put a drive-shaft.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Well said, except for the 2-seater part. The Converj is a 4-seater sports coup. Like you say, why not greenlight it if you think it can be sold profitably and Cadillac gains a lot of collateral sales in the process too? Additionally, they don’t have a vehicle in this class.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Depends on where you put the motor(s), doesn’t it?
November 9th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Put the motor(s) in the back, no drive shaft needed.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Great day for Volt and Voltec fans. Bad day for the neysayers. Sorry folks, “no soup for you” today.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
This is a shameless plug for my posting on the last thread. I suggested a possibility for a Volt drivetrain configuration that is consistent with Alex’s statements and with what GM has said previously.
I’ll paste it here since I can’t figure out how to link to it (sorry!)
:
nasaman: I seem to recall someone at GM (Tony Posawatz?) commenting about similarities between the housing (and perhaps even the two motor/generators used in their FWD 2 mode hybrid transmission?) and the two Volt motor/generators/housing. Both are FWD, thus use a transaxle(s) and both are extremely compact. The view below of the FWD 2 mode transmission 2MT70, shown in a paper at the SAE 2009 World Congress, makes me wonder if Alex Cattelan is possibly “dancing around” a Volt two motor/generators design having some significant similarities to the 2MT70…..
nasaman,
I was the one who asked the question:
Rick Hearn: The motor housing of the Volt looks very related to the 2 mode hybrid FWD tranny housing. Is that just a coincidence?
Jon Bereisa: It is darn deliberate.
I am going to throw out a possibility for the Volt’s drivetrain configuration that is consistent with Alex’s comments and what we have been told earlier.
Assume that a clutch (C1) connects the engine to the generator (MG1) which is connected by another clutch (C2) to the planet carrier (C) of a planetary gearset . The required gear reduction of the traction motor (MG2) output to the differential is accomplished by connecting MG2 to the sun (S) of the planetary gearset whose ring (R) drives the differential. A final clutch (C3) can lock the carrier (C) to be stopped. C2 and C3 are operated in an either/or mode: When C2 is closed C3 is open and vice versa.
When C1 is open, C2 is open, and C3 is closed the planetary gearset just accomplishes a fixed reduction from MG2 to the differential.
In exchange for the cost, weight, bulk, and complexity of adding the three clutches we get the ability (when C1 is open, C2 is closed, and C3 is open) to use MG1 speed to vary the reduction ratio from MG2 to the differential. (This is an Electronic Continuously Variable Transmission function like the 2 Mode Hybrid and Prius have.) The planetary gearset is mixing the torque from MG1 and MG2 to the differential.
Note that the engine would never be directly driving the differential if we never close C1 and C2 at the same time. Thus, you can still say the wheels are always driven electrically.
I don’t know whether the real Volt drivetrain is anything like what I have described here, but it is an interesting way to reconcile Alex’s comments with what GM has previously said.
ps I drew a diagram of this arrangement in Word, but the file is 26k and the limit for .doc file attachments is 19k. If anyone can tell me how to post the diagram I will be happy to do so. It is a lot easier to follow than my text description!
I’m interested in anyone’s opinions on this approach. I’m only guessing here! Feel free to say I’m crazy, propose alternatives, or refinements.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
There were some good posts in the last thread, if you are into arcane technical stuff. Cab Driver pretty much describing the proposed scenario, that the “clutch box” could be the SS option, that would also be standard on the Converj.
Smoky Volt Burnout….. ?
November 9th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
No one said the batteries need to remain in the T-shape configuration. The Buick that was scrapped was going to have a rectangular configuration.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Archaic Homo Sapiens were controlling and starting fires since about 400,000 years ago.
These hunter/gatherers and their descendants did not settle down into permanent villages until agriculture was developed about 9,500 BC (some say because after the Ice Age ended in 11,000 BC, humans flourished all over the planet, then the Younger Dryas Little Ice Age caused their food supply to shrink; agriculture was just the solution to a desperate situation, allowing them to feed a population now too large to survive just by hunting and gathering on the land. It was no big “invention”, just a lot more work, but it had profound consequences.)
Agriculture (farming and herding livestock) was the foundation of Civilization.
It’s ironic that climate change led to its development, since climate change might soon end the many thousands of years long, relatively-stable temperature and rainfall patterns that have allowed it to support a planetary civilization.
the first domesticated crop, Emmer wheat, which put Homo Sapiens on the road to Civilization
November 9th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
I saw the Converj in Detroit back in January, and it was by far the most striking car design at the show (imo). I think it actually won the award for that. Anyway, I really hoped this car would make it to production, so this is great news to me. By the time the engineers start tweaking the Voltec for the Converj, i’m sure we will have seen a few iterations in the technology by then. There’s a lot of room for changes to range/speed/cost/etc.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
I thought the Volt was suppose to be for fuel economy, or why didn’t they follow the lead of Tesla, and build a 2 seater? I don’t understand GM at times. Maybe Toyota should make a special version of the Prius, make it TRD equipped.
Oh, and preists don’t buy blow up dolls, they would rather sodomize them.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
It’s not just about volume sold. It’s about profits. The margins on cars like the Yaris are thin to non-existent. Obviously, GM needs a competitor in this area, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t go after the low volume, high margin market too. And due to its high margins, the converj should be a very profitable car even if they sell relatively few of them.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
LOL…yeah I meant the car.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
You need to take a look at sales figures of Mustangs, Camaro’s, Nissan Z’s…Corvettes and sooo many more performance cars and trucks for that matter. Put economical propulsion with tons of power and guess what people will purchase. Power…not econo boxes…
November 9th, 2009 at 11:47 pm
_____________________________________
Most folks don’t go 240 miles each day, and each evening there’ll be another 40 miles of range available from a socket. On the road, if the cellulosic E85 he referred to isn’t available, then there is corn based E85 and even gasoline, if range anxiety gets to be too much of a damper for folks with delicate sensibilities.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
I agree about the styling – it’s cutting edge gorgeous. This is the car that ought to be GM’s technological tour de force. Get a few Hollywood stars to own them – and it won’t be long before they’ll be THE car to be seen in at country clubs across the nation; to be valet parked in the most visible spots at the finest hotels and restaurants.
This car will make trickle down economics become a reality for GM.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:25 am
Yes and Noel Parks Impala SS, plus the redline Ion, Cobalt SS, Suburu WRX, Mustang GT, Civic SI, Nissan 370 Z, Infinity G37, even the plain old Toyota Camry has an SE Version with a 268 HP V-6
November 10th, 2009 at 1:47 am
300,000 Yaris buzzing around need spare parts and periodic maintenance. Big sales numbers support the thousands of support jobs saved by the TARP bail out. This is why it makes sense to go big on Volt production.
=D~
November 10th, 2009 at 4:02 am
The Chevy Volt is a high performance vehicle and its price should only be compared to the prices of other high performance vehicles. I don’t think theres any high performance vehicles selling for 22,500.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:15 am
What is Volt SS? What does letters “SS” mean?
November 10th, 2009 at 5:54 am
I think not 80K, not 60K, not even 40K, but 30K would be a highly affordable price tag for energy efficient vehicles when it comes to good competition period!
November 10th, 2009 at 5:57 am
80K Or 40K is just pathetic!
November 10th, 2009 at 7:04 am
The key to getting the cost of Voltec down is to run the tech across multiple lines and products. The Converj, hopefully, will be comparable with the Fisker,in performance and price.
In order to maximise Voltec I fervently hope they use the exact same battery that will be used in Volt Version two..
Cost reduction means, producing large volumes of the same product. In the same way Toyota is ready to roll out their synergy drive across their product lines as peak oil pricing, or CARB, dictates.
This is really a good news post in order for GM to avoid going the way of Chrysler. Will electricification go as fast as Nissan seems to have bet its marbles on? Time will tell.
One for sure the face of car companies will look VERY different a mere ten years from now.
Dan, I’ve been waiting for so long for this car, I can’t imagine letting ANYONE drive it. Certainly, no teenager will be behind the wheel of my Volt.
LJGTVWOTR And keep them there!
November 10th, 2009 at 7:26 am
Super Sport, Dmitirii.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:33 am
Well, said. The more EREV wheels on the road, the better and if it puts some money in the coffers, all the better (to support more erev, etc).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
November 10th, 2009 at 7:33 am
The Volt is about an eight-and-a-half second car (0-60). There’s plenty of cars in that price range that can go eight-and-a-half.
Aside from the electrics, the Volt compares to the Focus, Corolla, Civic and many other compact cars. Maybe even the Yaris and Fit (the Volt only seats 4, after all). Go look up their prices.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:33 am
GM once had a great animation of the 6 speed transmission on this site many months ago that was a selectable animation. (It was great.)
Maybe someone might get us the Volt powertrain animation someday. That would be the fastest way for people to learn how each component works. (But with a very magnified view of each process presented very slowly for us to examine, with toggle softswitches in an interactive set of automatic and manual modes.)
November 10th, 2009 at 7:34 am
Super sport?
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
November 10th, 2009 at 8:27 am
The concept converj looks great. I predict the production version will look like a prius.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Talking about GM cars, like the Monte Carlo, and Cobalt they include items such as a Supercharger, a stronger transmission, special leather seats. Just like the “Old School” cars, want to make them faster. It’s the same thing as Dodge with the R/T series, or not STR and R/T.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:56 am
You don’t need a driveshaft. Just put another electric motor in the rear. All you need is a cable/wire to run it.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:00 am
2015 is the first year when the new co2 (mpg) standards will be fully in place (the standards phase in starting with 2012). These standards mean sharply higher prices for generally smaller cars. Maybe they will help the Volt by making less difference between Volt and its competition. Overall it is hard to know the effects on buyers, but generally the change to smaller and more expensive goes in the opposite direction of what US customers have wanted to buy lately. They may rather keep the old car.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Super Sport = high-performance version.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Yup. That’s the beauty of electric motors. Estima was the first hybrid to take advantage of this. Next came Highlander.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Dave,
The solution to this is really straight-forward.
you simply transplant the limited slip diff and rear suspension from the base corvette into the back of the converj and add the electric drive motor at the differential input instead of a driveshaft. (The ‘driveshaft’ is a bundle of wires.)
To be a real sport coupe it absolutely has to be rear drive. Leaving the “volt-style” front motor in place is perfectly fine for an AWD version. (and would neatly double the available power) Although there is absolutely no reason why the engine/generator couldn’t be in the front with the drive motor at the back. The electronic’s will already be proven in, these are just packaging issues.
Otherwise it’s just another understeering hot hatch.
Developing this combination opens the door to a 4WD pickup/van/SUV/crossover etc as well.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Don’t use the SS designation – too much of a big gas engine identity.
Be bold and choose a new high performance designation……. how about calling it a Volt HV or in longhand, the High Voltage Volt.
That would work for the street performance versions. For a full-blown competition version of the Volt, call it the UHV – Ultra High Voltage.
I’d like to see GM build up a 225mph racing Volt and enter some tough event such as LeMans. They could develop a method for, and practice quick battery changeovers during pit stops.
Yoo Hoo!! Are you listening, Mr. Lutz???
November 10th, 2009 at 11:07 am
If they build it I’ll buy it
November 10th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Interesting take on the Opel deal. Daniel Howes is a writer at the Detroit news, who’s views are generally well thought out.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20091110/OPINION03/911100340/1148/rss25
November 10th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Ho hum….
Volt SS? Yes or No?
Don’t really care either way.
I was just thinking: Could you fit the 304 HP V6 under the hood of the Converj?
A small coupe like that would be really exciting if you could. It would easily sell for $50k.
A Cadillac Ferrari-Fighter? Well, maybe not that good…
November 10th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Heh, not Ferrari, but how about a Genisis/BMW/Infiniti coupe fighter? I can see that.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Hey “DirtyDawgRob” aka MuddyRoverRob, long time no see dude!
Glad to see you back.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Ya know, i’ll take a 20AER for a faster off the line….hehehe.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Thanks Cap’n, been a bit of stressful time.
Looking for work again.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:54 am
[...] [Source: Fox Car Report via GM-Volt.com] [...]
November 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
OHHHH I so want that Cadillac! The Converj, not the CTS-V.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
So if it will chirp the tires does that mean it drives both front wheels?
November 10th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Now we’re talking! Having VOLT SS really will dress- up a VOLT showroom. In its concept description, the Converj claims ER of ‘hundreds of miles’. I gather that’ll be the mission for VOLT SS. So why the 180? Last week we couldn’t get a peep about extended VOLT tech – and now our plate runs over. I read here (or one of these sites) there are a couple thousand auto websites. Maybe GM is actually reading some postings. So here’s a note to GM: Do it now. Get a few Converj’s … drive coast-to-coast. Doll up a VOLT SS. And one other point: Take seriously the VOLT waiting list ON this site. Bet you sell a few converj’s and SS’s.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Using the SS moniker is kind of…….well, most associate it with ICE muscle.
Call it the EE. Yeah not quite as sporty sounding but it’s “Electrically Enhanced”.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
[...] [Source: Fox Car Report via GM-Volt.com] [...]
November 10th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
no, they lure choir boys…
November 10th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Maybe GM should prove the technology before they use it in anougther vehicle isn’t that why they are where they are using UN proven technology
Robin S
November 10th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Sorry to hear bro. Keep your head up!
November 10th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
With Fisker’s vaporwear Nina targetted at $50G, the Converj better not cost much more than that.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
It probably does have sort of a negative connotation in Europe and Russia, when you think about it.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
#94 Thanks for the excellent link. Very interesting and amazingly positive, which is really pleasant for a change. +1
November 10th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
#68
Well right, but there’s also the issue you raised the other day vis a vis the Opel strike. Fixed costs. If the fixed costs are too high for the niche cars to carry, the whole thing is unsustainable.
I once suggested that GM should just radically downsize a lot more to become a truck manufacture for the commercial market, which is not going away. Maybe these supposed high margin cars could be part of the same strategy. If they can’t make money on small cars, they will just have to keep cutting the fixed costs to fit their actual market niche.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
[...] [Source: Fox Car Report via GM-Volt.com] [...]
November 10th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
[...] [Source: Fox Car Report via GM-Volt.com] [...]
November 11th, 2009 at 5:04 am
You are right. Everywhere in Eastern Europe “SS” is associated with nazi german invasion. “SS” is Schutzstaffel.
I guess that’s why carmakers never use this abbreviation here.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:26 am
Or just put the ICE & traction motor in the rear.. trunk up front. Lots of possibilities. I prefer FWD due to Michigan winters, but wouldnt be opposed to someone besides Tesla making a sporty RWD electrically driven car.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:30 am
Technical problems it appears. My post above was in response to Loboc #87.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
[...] GM-Volt | Images: [...]
November 11th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
The Converj is at the Seattle Auto Show, which opens today (11/11).
November 18th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
I actually think the SS name has a lot of positive street-cred with enthusiasts, and see no reason it couldn’t be applied to an electric car as well. Let’s face it, most car buyers are largely ignorant about automotive history, so I doubt many of them would have a negative view of it from the 60s and 70s musclecars.
Ironically, I think a lot of the same people that owned SS musclecars back in the day would also be interested in a Volt SS. There is a breed of enthusiasts (myself included) that don’t really care where the propulsion comes from, as long as it pushes us back in the seat!