AND 
Video: GM’s Rough Road Chevy Volt Testing
A few days ago I wrote about an experience I had with my MINI E electric car. I rode over a construction zone pothole and as a result the power electronic unit failed, making the car undriveable until it was towed and the component replaced.
At the time GM Volt executive Tony Pozawatz assured me “we do more tests to our cars and especially the Chevy VOLT than anyone could imagine including some pretty severe potholes on our Milford Proving Grounds and other very difficult road surfaces.”
Whether by coincidence or not, GM decided to put out a highly-produced one minute 30 second video on none other than…pothole testing the Volt (see below).
Here we actually get to see the fascinating Belgium block and pothole test roads at GM’s Milford proving ground.
The track provides “rough road input on various grades,” says a GM engineer. She goes on to note that since the Volt is really “a giant computer”, its really important to see how rough roads affects the electronics.
The Volts do three laps per cycle and about 200 cycles per test on the track. The engineer says if the Volt could withstand that, “it could withstand anything you can see on the roads today.”
Let’s hope so.
Besides robustly holding its own on rough roads the Volt is apparently also very endearing.
“I’ve been spending a lot of time in VOLT IV’s lately,” Posawatz tells GM-Volt.com. “The car is very easy to fall in love with and holds great promise.”
We can’t wait to find out.
159 Responses to “Video: GM’s Rough Road Chevy Volt Testing”
Recent Posts
- Ford Unveils Transit Connect Electric Cargo Van, Will Enter Production This Year
- Chevrolet Chief on Volt Supply and Demand
- Jaguar Says Only ‘Self Charging’ Extended Range Electric Cars Make Sense
- Op-Ed: Prius Halo Damaged; Toyota Pressured to Announce Recall on 270,000 Units Already Sold, as CEO President Finally Breaks Cover
- GM Sends Dealers 2011 Model Year Ordering Guide: Includes Volt
- GM Partners with NASA to Build Next Generation Robots
- If Electronics are to Blame for Toyota’s Vehicle Failures, What Does this Mean for the Volt?
- The Chevy Volt Fuel Tank will be Sized to Deliver 300 Miles of Gas Range
- Video: How the Volt Works
- GM CEO: Volt Will Roll out Simultaneously in US, and a Billion Dollars Couldn’t Bring it Sooner
Recent GM-Volt Forum Posts
- Volt Test Drive by Vancouver EV Association February 8, 2010VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA -- General Motors issued a very special invitation to the Vancouver Electric Vehicle Association last week to drive the... […]WopOnTour
- gasoline cars are like smoking . . . . February 8, 2010interesting article, better presenting what I've had a hard time putting into words (which is why HE's a writer and I'M... […]prowler
- A common European strategy for electric vehicles February 8, 2010I coudn't resist to cut and paste the next excerpt : Link :... […]Jean-Charles Jacquemin
- Run flat option or standard? February 8, 2010I suspect that run flats might be standard because they get rid of the space and weight taken by a spare tire and may result in less fatal accidents... […]1nk
- Engine Thermal Management in a Series Hybrid February 8, 2010I've just recently discovered how different the environments under which a conventional (even parallel hybrid) ICE and series hybrid ICE are... […]XGC75
- electric car with wind generator February 7, 2010My design of ELECTRIC CAR WITH WIND GENERATOR: http://velkovelkov.blogspot.com/ I think this conception is original and realistic. The low position... […]Velko Velkov
- Please provide complete home solar systems. February 6, 2010Please provide both a volt charging solar system and a complete whole house solar system that takes the user completely off the grid and stays on... […]1nk
GM-Volt.com is not affiliated with General Motors Company
All contents copyright 2007-2010 GM-Volt.com, LLC - All Rights Reserved
Home | Contact | Privacy Policy | About | Back to Top
November 5th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
There are two kinds of testing: One to test within the design limits to demonstrate “it is ok to sell” and testing beyond the design limits to discover the failure modes. You would think a shaker table would be used to verify electronics system integrity.
November 5th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Go GM!!!
November 5th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
—
The Volts do three laps per cycle and about 200 cycles per test on the track. The engineer says if the Volt could withstand that, “it could withstand anything you can see on the roads today.”
—
Thats because the engr has never driven in some asian countries
November 5th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
I agree. Beat it up until it breaks. This process will allow engineering to improve access to suspected failure points. Better to do this now then to wait until crunch time.
=D~
November 5th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
I wonder where the “Volt is vaporware” people have gone.
Sorry, couldn’t resist
I love how “normal car-ish” this testing seems.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
Pfft, that’s hardly a pothole.
It should have “sharp” (steep drop?) edges and irregular shapes like the real things!
That’s just a minor dip in the road, like a small sinkhole. Hardly something to scoff at.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
I started off a couple years ago as a “GM killed the electric car” believer and have only bought Honda and Toyota cars for the past 20 years.
I have to say now that I believe 100% and plan to buy a Volt as my next car.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
if they want real pothole, they should come here in Quebec. But nice to see the Volt fly over obstacle silently
November 5th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
(click to show comment)
November 5th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Good video, but how about sharing a few scenes from the Milford proving grounds of the Volt’s high speed handling and performance?
November 5th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
GM might be spoon feeding us information but the Volt development has still been the most open I’ve ever seen. It’s been great to watch.
And yes, where are the vapor-car people?
November 5th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
I’ve no issue believing the \VOLT will come to market, just my chances at getting one. The initial price is just too high and it won’t be available where I am for a very long time.
I just hope to see one on the road come this time next year.
I’d go on one hell of a road trip just to get a look.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:11 am
Nice! I always wondered why the wheels didn’t fall off when one goes over a pothole — it seems pretty violent, but I assumed there was some engineering that kept them on there. Now I’ve got some idea what the test facilities look like!
November 6th, 2009 at 12:47 am
Wow. You have a commendably open mind. I think it will take a lot more convincing for some people but hopefully you are one of many.
Of course john1701a does have a point that not everything has panned out exactly as promised. Still, I think the glass is well over half full.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:49 am
Wow Larry. You have a commendably open mind. I think it will take a lot more convincing for some people who distrust the Volt but hopefully you are one of many.
Of course john1701a does have a point that not everything has panned out exactly as promised. Still, I think the glass is well over half full.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:30 am
Positive test results are no surprise to me.
I’m still hung up on the black temporary front and rear bumper covers.
I think the big surprise is going to be a styling upgrade to please all of the disappointed VOLT junkies (like myself) who still think that the ‘plain vanilla’ look needs a bit more ‘hot fudge’ to make it exciting.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:03 am
Where I come from, potholes don’t have nice slopes going in and out… they are pretty sharp drops.
Maybe potholes feel different when you are in a car vs watching a video, but I’m sure I’ve hit much worse than that.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:01 am
Great news and wonderful to actually see the Volt in real testing. In regards to the potholes, do all of you who are criticizing believe that by watching this very short video that you can conclude and comment on all the testing that goes on? You would have to be naive to believe GM has only that one single set of pot holes to test it’s vehicles. What you saw was one single example in a whole litany of different types of pot holes along the road.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:15 am
Very cool video.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:16 am
nice potholes BTW, try the volt on some a-holes also….hehehe…
November 6th, 2009 at 5:29 am
They probably when over to some Global Warming forum because the Volt is real and impossible to deny.
Just think how pissed they will be when they are passed by one on the road, and don’t even hear it coming. Priceless.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:46 am
I’ve seen some cities where paved road where much more badly paved than the road shown on the beginning of the video. I think every car pass through these kind of stress test from factory to parking during some hundrend meters.
I had yet seen rougther test… I’ll seek if I can find one on youmotion.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:48 am
“I’ve been spending a lot of time in VOLT IV’s lately,” Posawatz tells GM-Volt.com. “The car is very easy to fall in love with and holds great promise.”
Taking the article as a whole, I’m most impressed by this one sentence.
— but I know you form an impression over time that is much deeper than after only a few minutes.)
(I wonder what he has been doing during all that time he’s been spending with the Volt — probably not just riding around
November 6th, 2009 at 7:06 am
Ah, the Belgian Block test. Experienced test drivers such as myself have experienced that one on many occassions at Disney World’s GM Test Track in Epcot.
Here’s a serious question: There are several commenters here who wonder out loud if GM understand what a “real” pothole is. People… the GM guys all live in freaking Michigan, not Orlando. Something tells me that all the engineers, all the executives, and even Gloria in Accounting understand very well what a real pothole is.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:09 am
I’m glad we are past the vapor ware people. I would like to know if Weber is reviving the Ampera at Opel. Sidenote: I recently had the good fortune of driving a Honda Civic Hybrid with auto-stop engine feature. It’s cool sitting at a redlight in total silence. The Volt will be even better with silent movement. Another couple of cool things I noticed that will also be similar in the Volt. No A/C compressor kicking in and out (It’s electric… and that always bothers me with the on/off cycles) And no more downshifting when the cruise control is on and you start up a hill. (the volt is single speed trans and the honda has cvt) Yes the honda did ‘rev up’ up the hills, but it was not even noticeable except on the tach. But the Volt won’t even have to rev up, just smooth uphill torque. SWEET!
November 6th, 2009 at 7:22 am
I cannot wait…. I think that was my Volt they were testing.
Take Care,
TED
November 6th, 2009 at 7:28 am
Toss a mattress and maybe a pallet or two out there on the torture track. The worse potholes are 8″ deep and shaped like California.
Ever had your car in for repair to hear the mechanic say something like,”The new sensor is $129. But, with this model car, we’ll need to raise the engine a few inches to get to it. Parts $129, labor $520, and tax $11. So shall we keep it overnight and get this done for you?”
One of the glaring details listed in car magazine tests is cost of repair beyond expected maintenance. Let’s get the Volt right.
=D~
November 6th, 2009 at 7:28 am
Even, dare I say it, up in the corporate executive suite.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:29 am
That’s so true Jim. GM has 100 years of pothole datum for spring rates, sprung and unsprung weight formula’s, and on and on. The tests are just as likely to also see if the motor will “reverse-pulse” some sort of voltage spike back into the electrical system momentarily as a “generator” opposed to the next incoming wave-amplitude of power from the controller when a driven tire momentarily slows down against the spring rate of both the spring and the shock.
But I doubt that will matter much in the short term. It’s the long term of years of repetition that may add up cumulatively that may be the focus.
You just don’t see all of this sort of testing done anywhere else.
It is all truly an education in product perfectionism.
I think all the other OEM’s either worry entirely too much about their development cycles being shown as proof that they are keeping pace, or, more likely it is because they are tremendously behind. In which case they actually do have a lot more to be worried about.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:32 am
The “pothole” in the lower picture is unboubtedly an “engineered” pothole with known characteristics so they can measure suspension response of the vehicle. I’m sure they also have “real” potholes on the test track.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:33 am
This kind of testing is great, and I’m glad gm is doing lots of it. Even so, it may not be sufficient to find the kind of failure that Lyle experienced, which likely came about as a combination of hot-cold cycling of the car, which makes connections slip, along with the potholes. Saying that is not to criticize gm but only to recognize that some kinds of failures that occur over time are hard to bring on in a short test.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:44 am
The potholes slope down; that’s not an issue. Any vehicle can take the drop of a few inches and survive forever. The slope up is steep enough to be jarring – pothole effect – but not so sharp-edged as to destroy the tires & rims. Thus, they can repeat the tests quickly.
I’ve broken a rim before on a local pothole so I know the experience first-hand. What GM has is a good simulation that can be used again and again without unnecessary tire/wheel damage. That minimizes cost and maximizes track/test time.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:17 am
I agree…once the issues from short/long term use on the test track(s) are fixed, a few Volts should be tested until broken. GM should work toward improving the next vehicle to last longer than the last one.
Why?
Because the competition must be doing it…even for their least expensive model. Keep it mind that a new vehicle is the second most expensive purchase for a customer even if it is your lowest priced model.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:22 am
JohnJ is right. They probably have many different pot holes on the test track. Each is designed to isolate a different part of the pot hole “experience” so that, if there is damage to the suspension, they know which part of a typical pot hole caused it.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:26 am
I agree. I used to commute every day into Detroit from Windsor and I can tell you any real world driving in Michigan will demonstrate rough road conditions.
I used to see at least one person on the side of the road with a damaged rim or flat tire every day on Michigan freeways.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:27 am
To RB:
Even if the executive is in a limo. The limo hits a pothole and the executive gets moca-latte in the lap (hothothot ouch).
November 6th, 2009 at 8:31 am
For PR purposes, I would have expected the video to show the biggest, baddest pothole GM has on the proving ground. Hence I do not agree with your expectation that there are other potholes that resemble the craters we see in real driving.
I have to say that in regard to the Volt’s development, this is the first time that I feel GM is passing something off (namely, its pot-hole testing) as something more than it is.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:53 am
That’s a pretty smooth cobblestone road GM has. GM should drive the Volt to Liberty State Park in Jersey City, NJ for a real cobblestones road test and video. Let me know if they need directions. I’ll be more than happy to take them there.
NPNS!
November 6th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Todays big story (other than Fort Hood) is unemployement is now at 10.2% and will continue to rise. This threatens the recovery and GM’s surviavl (and the Volts survival).
Despite all the stimulus money, unemployment continues up, now at 10.2% and the real rate is 17% according to economists (those working part time that can’t find full time and those that have given up looking).
Productivity is up 10% because companies just layoff folks and make the remaining folks work harder because they know they can’t leave and find work elsewhere.
Also companies continue to offshore jobs to save money.
Obama during campaign promised to take away tax brakes for companies that offshore but has not delivered on that promise.
When unemployment is low, it makes sense for companies to offshore to fill needed jobs.
In times of high unemployment, offshoring is just cutting the throat of the companies because consumers without jobs can’t buy their products. Companies that offshore should have to pay an appropriate tax to pay for the unemployment they cause.
I work for a large company that outsource me to an overseas company so that the overseas company can do the layoffs and replace workers with offshore resources, thus making the American company look like they haven’t layed anyone off. So far 50% of us have been layed off.
So for example, if an American Worker whose complete cost of employment is $50 an hour is replaced by an offshore worker whose total cost is $15 an hour, the American company figures they could hire 2 offshore resources and still save money. However now we have an American worker that cannot find a job.
Because there is a direct relationship to offshoring and our unemployment, we really need a new tax that should be tied to unemployment. Like whatever money is going overseas for jobs that could be done in our country, multiply 10 times the current unemployment rate and that should be the tax. So if unemployment is 10%, there should be a 100% tax on the offshore resource. In my example an American whose total compensation was worth $100,000 lost his job to an offshore resource whose total compensation is $30,000. With a 10% unemployment rate there should be a $30,000 tax on that resource. If unemployment was 5% that tax would be $15,000.
All i know is this would result in the company that is now my client creating about 15,000 – 25,000 jobs in the next 2 years (as the offshore contracts expire).
November 6th, 2009 at 8:54 am
What makes me angry is I probably won’t be able to buy one as it won’t be available in sufficient quantities and in Michigan to boot!
November 6th, 2009 at 8:57 am
What happened to the edit function, I can’t go back and fix my typo’s after submitting the post. I guess I’ll have to proof read before posting.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:04 am
GM should take people like you and do commercials and commentaries once the Volt comes out. Have you tell the world how great this technology is and why that is important to you.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Good points tom #38,
The government is handing out huge sums of tax fund money to companies that are too big to fail. Under these agreements the companies will repay these loans when profitable.
Did I read the news of this morning correctly? AIG was bailed out in September 2008 for a total value of $182 billion from the government. Today from AIG, “Despite the improved performance, AIG CEO Robert Benmosche warned earnings will remain choppy as the company executes its restructuring plan.”
Very little is being done to ensure that American tax money stays in America. To what advantage is our representation splurging our tax money without simple hard fast rules to abide by?
When a citizen takes out a loan or insurance we have the facts right in front of our noses. If you do not repay the loan you will be delinquent and this will happen. If you smoke, your policy will not be honored. If you engage in dangerous activity you will not receive cash. And so on and on and on.
Who is behind this wholesale diluting of our currency? Why aren’t guidelines and penalty being attached? Talk about being taxed. This is tax in it’s purest form.
=D~
November 6th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Two-Mode has many lessons to teach about bringing up history.
For those unfamilar with the details of it or the “vaporware” claims, bringing up vague references can very much be a pot you’ll regret stirring. That’s why simply moving on and seeing what you have now is the suggestion, hence the advice to be careful.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:27 am
? Will the VOLT have daytime driving lights like all the other GM cars??
November 6th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Dave K;
It does seem like government is doing everything they can to undermine our economy and society. Government has the ability to direct economic activity with taxes and/or credits (as discussed in #38 as well as gas taxes, credits for PHEVs etc.), but they seem to be clueless to the consequences of their actions as they ignore simple obvious positive things they could do with taxes and credits, and instead pursue complex harmful actions (i.e. current health care plan).
November 6th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Tom and Dave You’ve got your finger on the problem. Shouldn’t be sending our jobs to countries without labor laws, environmental standards. But it seems the plutocrats are of a different opinion.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Harmful? Definitely complex. The medical staff who get behind an overhaul of the rendered care and compensation system will be blindsided and left wondering “what just happened?”.
If all are okay with taking health care up a notch by servicing 7 patients a shift instead of 4. And who are okay with limited fixed pay adjustment and less benefits. Then I give you sacrificing hard workers credit for being so giving and altruistic.
Sorry for wondering away from the Volt test track thread. The path we’re going down on rampant spending and reckless reform is troubling.
=D~
November 6th, 2009 at 10:03 am
I really would be very surprised if it does not have DRL’s.
There are very solid statistics proving the increase in visiblity of a car equipped with DRL’s. (Even in the daylight) DRL’s are so others see you not the other way around.
The small power draw is easily overridden by the safety factor.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Interesting video. Thanks, GM & Lyle.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Here’s my solution to stimulate the economy WITHOUT raising taxes:
Since bad bank loans (toxic assets) were the greatest contributor to the problem and has received the greatest amount of ‘bailout money’, here is what we do… Require that ALL BANKS and INSURANCE companies give every mortgage, both residential and commercial, a 12-month reprieve/break/moratorium/whatever on their mortgage payments. Let them ADD 12 months to the END of every mortgage, but for 1 year they receive NOTHING.
They caused the problem, they should feel our suffering as well. They have billions and trillions in reserve to survive the year. We don’t.
So, for 1 year, everyone who may still be in their homes and hasn’t been foreclosed on, can now use that money for food, clothing, appliances, cars, education, whatever, and start spending again. That creates jobs, and all will be right again.
Now tell me: “Why hasn’t fearless leader tried THAT kind of “Hope and Change” for us to believe in?”
November 6th, 2009 at 10:11 am
I love Govt. hypocricy. It happens all the time from both parties and I never tire of reading about it and wondering why politicians are so slimy. The latest is from Nanny Pelosi.
“Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office tells THE WEEKLY STANDARD that the speaker will not allow the final language of the health care to be posted online for 72 hours before bringing the bill to a vote on the House floor, despite her September 24 statement that she was “absolutely” committed to doing so.”
GM is more open with the Volt than these Nitwits in congress are with laws that they will impose upon us.
On a more upbeat note, I think the Volt will have some low power daytime running lights. Just enough juice to light them up. Maybe use a few separate LEDs to light up the headlight.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:18 am
Here is my job rant:
The government bails out the banks so they can lend money. The Banks stash the money on their books because they are afraid of whats coming next or what the FDIC is going to do or want next. Instead of lending to small companies they hire more lobbiest’s to convince the government not to put on more regulations on the banking industry.
What a sick cycle. I believe the GM and Chrysler loans will be repaid and the right thing to do as it saved jobs on our shores.
I also believe if the government wants to get the economy rolling they will start bailing out small business – it is small business that hires 70% of the workforce. It would be an easy thing to do – if you own a small business, bring in your last payroll and for every person you currently employ you get $25,000 or 50,000? to be repaid over 4 years. The small business administration could easily (oxymoron) administer this. I would be able to hire 2 people right now. I only employ 16 at this time.
I also believe the Government should purchase a fleet of volts maybe a 100,000 and this would help GM as well as provide leadership for energy independance – and require congress to drive them
Oh well – I dare to dream and I dream my black volt will be in my driveway by 2011, 2012, 2013 build them faster
November 6th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Its all those damned customers demanding low cost goods and services.. and the stockowners demanding returns.. its a nightmare.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Oh! I know! I know!
He’s too busy trying to get you and me to pay for free healthcare for every illegal immigrant standing outside of Home Depot.
(Gee. Did I just say that out loud? Silly me.)
November 6th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Corvette Dude;
Undoubtedly, there are many things government ‘could’ do. It is like they are duck hunting and each ‘duck’ is a solution with a positive outcome, and there are thousands of ducks overhead, but instead of shooting the ducks they shoot themselves in the foot. Our government is clueless.
So we all could come up with things they should do. My original point in #38 relates to the continuing rise in unemployment. The focus needs to be on jobs, because without jobs (and our huge deficits to service), we will spiral towards collapse.
So I was pointing out a simple fair solution to create and save jobs that Americans would support. Our focus needs to be on saving and creating jobs that pay taxes instead of creating more unemployment and more government payouts.
There are many things that could be done.
Because this is GM-VOLT site I keep bringing up the importance of redirecting money going over seas for oil should be used to create American Jobs here. Each Volt will displace $12,000 to $24,000 in money going to buy foreign oil, so maybe we should up the credit to buy volts to $12,000 for the first million volts (12 billion), how fast would GM open up another plant to build Volts if Government Motors did that?
November 6th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Of course, competition demands that if one company does this then its competitor must also do this to stay competitive. But by sending our jobs overseas we cut our own throats. Thats why we need this ‘unemployment tax’ I mention in #38 so that it will impact companies equally.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:39 am
They should give a test vehicle to my little sister…she seems to break cars in strange ways.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:47 am
The suggestion I made in #38 would actually tend to have companies hire more when unemployment is up, and offshore more when unemployent is down, exactly what is best for society and the companies.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:48 am
What a wonderful economy we have. Maybe eventually all jobs will be in health care.
Why don’t we just solve all our problems by giving everyone printing presses to make their own money?
November 6th, 2009 at 10:53 am
If my wife can’t put the front end out of alignment. No one can. The Volt will likely replace her Accord. She has dealt a nightmare of bashes and bumps on that poor Honda.
The politicians are adamant that illegals will not be provided coverage. Just like illegals are not allowed to work without “papers”. How many border cross babies are born in San Diego each year? Can they really be this blind out in DC?
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. Just be honest with the public when the truth is mainstream.
=D~
November 6th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Protectionism (taxing import/export of goods or services) never works in a global economy.
The Chinese are looking a US dumping of cars on their market and import duties on steel products. These are the kinds of things that cause global turmoil because the markets are not open. (The Chinese got a lot of room to talk about dumping, however.)
I don’t agree that there is a direct relationship between off-shoring labor and the US unemployment rate. The unemployment rate is directly tied to the health of the economy (both local and global). Yeah, some percentage of jobs may be displaced by the initial move to offshore labor, but, overall other jobs open up as the economy grows.
The other side of off-shoring is that if the company did not compete with labor costs, they would go out of business. In that scenario, nobody would have these jobs because they wouldn’t exist!
Unemployment is a trailing indicator of economic health. The economy has to turn around before companies hire their workers back. In other words, when unemployment rates start shrinking, the economy has already started growing again.
While I sympathize that some 10%+ are unemployed (I have been there on multiple occasions!), the notion that taxing offshore labor will improve US employment is flawed.
The trick of it is to try to be in the other 90%
November 6th, 2009 at 11:06 am
I see Volts every day running all over on our streets here in Milford.
Trust me we have many many real potholes on our roads here in Michigan, bigger then the ones on the proving grounds and they are out driving the volts over them in the real world every day.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:08 am
I wonder when they do the “Dukes of Hazzard” test and jump a river off a dirt pile?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHKwmwDQNjA&feature=related
….. Or a house.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:09 am
I am not going to jump into the social issues debate, or my post will be 20,000 words long….. Let me just say that I am not happy with how things are going!
Back on the Volt thread:
If I had to drive that course for 600 laps (3 laps per cycle times 200 cycles per test), I think my butt would be really sore!!!!
And I wonder how many tests they run per car?
Has anyone here actually been on this course to know how many different types of obstacles are actually in place? That would be interesting to know. Or better yet, a video from inside the car for a complete lap!!
Keep up the testing GM!!! We really do want the best car in the world!!!!
November 6th, 2009 at 11:13 am
#3
Or Interstate 5 in CA. Or I-710, come to that.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Hey Loboc;
You didn’t read what I wrote very carefully, but thats ok, I just pretty much skim everything myself.
Well it seems to work pretty good for everyone else. But I never said anything about protectionism. I just said we should have a sliding scale tax so that companies that create unemployed workers by sending their jobs overseas pay their fair cost of the burden of taking care of the unemployed.
We all benefit from cheaper good when companies lower costs, and we all suffer when we have high unemployement and our taxes have to support the families of the unemployed.
So since there are millions of jobs we’ve sent overseas to lower cost of goods sold, but now we have a higher cost of the unemployed.
A sliding scale tax on the funds going overseas for offshoring is an equitable approace:
5% unemployment, 10% tax on payments abroad for offshoring.
6% unemployment, 20% tax on payments
7% unemployment, 40% tax
8% unemployment, 60% tax
9% unemployment, 80% tax
10% unemployment, 100% tax
This would tend to have companies hire domestically when unemployment is high and offshore more when unemployment is low.
Of course if American companies offshore a million workers, that doesn’t mean unemployment goes up exactly a million. But there is a direct relationship over time.
Where I work, they layed off 50% of the Americans, but only offshored a small percentage of those because for now the object was to cut costs. But as they hire back they will be hiring offshore.
Historically the benefit of recessions is that companies cut waste and improve productivity. That is a painful but necessary part of our business cycle. But the offshoring only benefits us if our workers can eventually find jobs, and this is no longer the case because of the great advances in communication technology.
We can work with people around the world as if they are in our own office. This new reality will continue to bleed jobs by the millions over years if we don’t do something to bring back balance.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:25 am
#42
Fritz was quoted yesterday as saying that it’s OK for GM to use its bailout money to restructure Opel.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:27 am
yeah, they should test it in the spring on Quebec’s roads…
November 6th, 2009 at 11:30 am
#40 Well I proofread before I post, and there are still plenty left, LOL. Speaking as the self-appointed King Of The Typos, I have to add my voice here:
HELP!!!!
November 6th, 2009 at 11:36 am
what makes you think they aren’t using a shaker? just because its not in this vidoe?
c’mon…
November 6th, 2009 at 11:47 am
If it’s the law, it’ll have DRL’s. Probably smaller (LED?) ones though, which are low power. The lumens cast by a lamp intended for visibility are far lower than those required to light the way such as a headlight. Consider the many US cars whose DRLs are little more than a front-facing running lamp.
Edit: MuddyRoverRob’s comments vis-a-vis safety are also spot on.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:49 am
I respectfully disagree again.
Taxing off-shore labor effectively makes off-shore companies more competitive with US companies because US companies would not be able to get the labor savings. Treating a symptom (unemployment) not the problem (economic downward spiral) will not work.
In order to further protect these jobs, you would have to place import duties on the products as well thereby creating a snowball effect of protecting US companies right out of business!
This is the problem with government intervention in these market forces. Nobody in government (or anybody else for that matter) can predict what the actual outcome will be by manipulating the course of business.
These are global companies. If you forced them to use US labor exclusively (or effectively make their offshore labor the same price), they would not be able to compete in the global market place!
November 6th, 2009 at 11:54 am
I drive my Chevy trucks around on the LA freeways every day. We don’t have potholes so much, as we hardly get any rain. What we do have is MANY broken and shifted concrete slabs, where the truck traffic has literally beaten the pavement to death. Sometimes you just can’t miss the bumps at 75 mph.
I am always amazed that something doesn’t break in the suspension, a tire go flat, or a wheel break. Somebody must be doing something right.
BTW, my younger son broke a wheel on his fiance’s Mini Cooper S by hitting one of these things on the 405 some months ago, so I am not making this up. $850 for a new tire and rim.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:55 am
@68 Vanoc, Sweeeeet… check out that rim-wreckin’ Michelin-Muncher.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Their “promises without enforcement” is like a 55 MPH freeway sign. Those who break the law and go faster should be stopped and given a ticket, but the administration has told the enforcers to look the other way. Their promise is still intact, they haven’t lied, but we know what is really going on.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Dang! You found the downside to my proposal. You could never be a politician because you understand the law of unintended consquences.
Anyways, I understand that but I already write too much on this Volt thread to go into that much detail. Certainly it is imperative that our companies can compete in the global market and risk of companies locating overseas is certainly a reason to keep taxes lower.
However (almost) all countries tax corporations and their dividends. The goal for governments is to achieve tax policies that promote growth. So it is a question of balance. In fact we should probably be lowering overall corporate taxes, but we should tailor or taxes to achieve the best result for us. So an overall cut in the corporate tax rate and a simplification of those taxes is actually in order, but part of that should be taxes on behaviors that are not in our countries best interest (like sending good jobs overseas especially when unemployment is high, when unemployment is low we wouldn’t want to penalize companies for finding ways to support their growth, hence the sliding scale).
November 6th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
#66
Based on my past comments here, I hope that you know that I agree with you. At a personal level, I believe that we should all make every attempt to buy the things we need from American companies employing American workers. In other words, vote with our wallets.
Every time we buy a product from an offshore producer, or even an offshore corporation producing here, we shoot ourselves in the feet, IMHO. That’s why I’m here.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Loboc;
And I certainly respect your opinions.
Also the proposed sliding scale should be based on rolling 3 year averages but assessed yearly so businesses have time to plan and react.
A sliding scale tax on the funds going overseas for offshoring is an equitable approach:
5% unemployment, 10% tax on payments abroad for offshoring.
6% unemployment, 20% tax on payments
7% unemployment, 40% tax
8% unemployment, 60% tax
9% unemployment, 80% tax
10% unemployment, 100% tax
November 6th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Hi Noel;
Well unfortunately if the only jobs left in our country are in the healthcare industry, we won’t have anything left in our wallets to vote with.
Our government is dead set on taking over and mismanaging everything. We need to elect folks that will either just leave every thing alone, or understand the consequences of their actions enough to enact responsible changes.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Dave K said: “How many border cross babies are born in San Diego each year?”
Dude. Don’t even get me started on the freekin’ border fence!
I live in “Mexifornia”, and it gets worse and worse every year.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
“Promised”?! I don’t remember GM promising anything.
When we beat up company representatives for making estimates about how their products *may* mature in the future, we only give them an incentive to stop talking to us.
GM has been very open and honest with us as this product has matured. But development of a complex new product containing leading-edge technology isn’t as easy as it looks. Things *do* go wrong. Surprises *do* come up. Designs change as a result of detailed analysis and test results. Estimates are sometimes wrong.
Frankly, I am surprised (and impressed) at how well the Volt development is going.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Just back from the gym. Needed to vent a little energy.
NP … what is done is done. The billions of dollars that saved GM were called “a loan”. Don’t blame the spending on Fritz. Blame it on our cork headed representatives that wrote the check without adding guidelines and limits.
I work with many American’s of Mexican lineage. I love them. No problem with getting along and helping each other. It’s the criminals that are the concern. If I moved up to Canada I would register as an American living in Canada and abide by the rules associated with this relationship. I wouldn’t pay Lise Thibault $400 CAN dollars for false papers. This would make me a criminal. This means I would be illegal. Doesn’t anyone in DC get this?
There is nothing anti racial or unfair about enforcing the law.
=D~
November 6th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Great , just great. Let’s all beat up on Latinos today, who were driven here by US foreign policy. No soup, (no healthcare no living wage) for you Guatemala, Nicaragua, Mexico!. Just free markets…yikes..thanks
November 6th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
They are back to work at Toyota and Honda trying to catch up
November 6th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
We are the only country that taxes our corporations on overseas earnings. But we don’t tax them as long as they reinvest their profits overseas. Only when they repatriate their profits.
At this pont, I don’t think we have much choice but to drastically reduce corporate taxes. Offshoring and investing your profits overseas is the biggest tax loophole there is. And the longer we wait, the more investing they do there. And if we tried to tax them before they repatriate their profits, they could simply move their headquarters.
Instead we should do what every other country does. Charge admission to our domestic market. For everyone. Iphones. Xboxes. The works.
By the way, I don’t really care if “our” companies are successful in other countries. That helps their balance sheet and their stock prices. But it doesn’t help American workers keep their jobs or get higher salaries (other than the top management). They employ people there to do work that would have been done here. Not the other way around.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
I’d like to see a gas car surviving a 8″ pothole shaped like California lol =)
Eh, give it a rest. 10% unemployment means that for every 10 people in the job market, 9 can get one. Lots of other countries would kill for those kind of numbers. And besides, full employment in the US is defined to be 5.5% unemployed, if i remember correctly. So really, for every 20 people in the job market, only 1 more is unemployed now than before the recession. There is a problem, yes, but the media is blowing this thing way out of proportion.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
But how do we stop them from outsourcing their IT or their engineering? I try to support companies that do their manufacturing and engineering and design here. But I feel like I’m fighting a losing battle.
I still feel guily about buying that kindle since it’s made in china. And they don’t even have the apple “designed in America” on it. But I wanted an e-reader. What was I supposed to do?
November 6th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
let’s not forget the mofo’s skyrocketed interest rates on credit cards. The muth@#^&$ sent me a letter saying my rates are going to shoot up and gave me a number to call and “Opt Out”. When I called “Opt Out” meant you refuse to accept and therefore want to cancel your card. So I opted out and sent my last paymen/payoff. EF U Banks!
November 6th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
American immigration laws are bizarre. it is extremely difficult to come here legally. Part of that is because of the demand–there are a lot of people who want to come here. Much more than we can accomodate. But part of it is because we handle things extremely badly.
America was built on immigration. We need immigrants. It’s who we are. And I believe that its what keep us strong and vital as a country. It provides us with new ideas and a diversity of perspectives. And, immigrants, as a whole, are a self selected group of people who are willing to move to an entirely new country in search of a better life. Why wouldn’t we want them?
Also, practically speaking, we need them demographically. They’re our best hope for keeping things like social security solvent.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
#84 & 86 Laura M;
Laura M for president. Oops you aren’t qualified because you have a brain and you aren’t owned by special interests.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Your a Maverick!
November 6th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Many countries including Canada and Europe have figured out how to deal with this problem. It’s called a VAT tax. This creates incentive to reduce imports and increase domestic production. Unfortunately, because it is a tax most people are automtatically against it, without considering it’s merits. VAT tax would solve many of the problems of the U.S. auto industry and make imports from Asia much less competitive. What percentage of the European market is made up of imports from Asia. I don’t know but I’m guessing it is because of their VAT tax.
Peter M
November 6th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
I’ll drink 2 dat!!!!!
November 6th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
I have always supported a VAT Tax. But we should exclude foor and housing and it should be fairly low like 5%.
At the same time they should get rid of the IRS and make a 5% flat tax on income. NO tax returns, just 6.2% social security, 1.45% medicare, 5% flat tax. 5% national VAT excluding Housing, Foods and electric cars.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Of course if we took away all the deductions so we could do the above, people would know the true cost of healthcare and we’d need to implement my healthcare plan that works without the government or the insurance companies. But thats for another thread.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
lol….
ya know, I have 10yrs of mfgring experience. Companies out source because labor is much less. In what we manufactured, it was pretty mindless work. Personally if some kid came off the streets and was willing to get paid less than many other folks in there were getting, i’d say hire him/her. The issue is that Unions want high pay rate for simple repetitious work. To top it off this kind of work is no where close to what anybody can consider a “Career”. If Joe Finkerdinker can do the same job as Billy Bob and will accept getting paid less then go for it. We shoot ourselves in the foot on the mfgring biz because another country that has a lower standard of living is willing to do it for less.
Let me tell you from experience, 80% of assembly workers don’t need the pay they are getting simply because the Unions don’t like the “Pay per performance” metrics. Many segments of the process were engineered for simplicity of installation and dis assembly
I worked for a small electronics company with the reverse acronyms of PH.. And they were, at least back then, not Union.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Hope I’m not coming across as anti immigration. We laugh, eat, support, and greet each other each day. My neighbors on both sides are from South of the border. One is second generation. The other moved here just 10 years ago. My grandparents on both sides were legal immigrants from Europe.
80% of immigrants somehow go through the motions to become legal. How would you label the others? Do the tax payers owe these people health care carte blanche? Can you help me with this Laura?
=D~
November 6th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Germany has declared war on GM. Good on them. Actually the whole of Europe should boycott GM. We don’t need or want GM in Europe. You are NOT welcome here.
GM YOU LIE !
November 6th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Nothing is really ever promised by the auto industry.
They set a goal, then later moved the posts.
It’s good history we can learn & benefit from.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
#86
Well I feel like I’m fighting a losing battle as well Our house is as full of imported TV, computer, small appliances, tools, et al, as anyone’s. You will note that I said “make every attempt”. So, if I can find what I need and it’s made here, I’m going to buy it, even if it costs a little more.
I realize that it’s largely symbolic, and sort of a rear guard action, but I’ll keep doing it as long as I’m around. When I see the shoals of imported cars on the roads of LA, I really do see it as a metaphor for the demise of the USA as we have known it. I strongly feel a sense of impending doom.
As always, I highly recommend the “Blowback Trilogy” of Chalmers Johnson, “Blowback”, “The Sorrows of Empire”, and “Nemesis”.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
I’m not defending illegal immigrants although I sympathize with their desperation. My point was just that it’s extremely difficult to comply with our laws the way they’re written. If they had to comply, they probably wouldn’t be able to come here in the first place.
A lot of would be immigrants aren’t coming here for that reason. I’m not saying we should or even could take everyone who wants to come. But we’re losing valuable skilled labor and potential entrepreneur because they are denied visas or just get tired of doing the paperwork. And their home countries are doing everything they can to lure them back.
No, I don’t think that we should provide “free” health care. But morally, I can’t see turning someone out of a hospital because they don’t have their paperwork. And it’s much more expensive to treat people in the emergency room than it is in a doctor’s office.
I don’t have a solution. But I don’t think they come here just to loaf off our “free” benefits. Most of them come for jobs that they’re willing to do for much lower pay than Americans.
For whatever it’s worth, I think that “problem” is solving itself. There are no jobs here anymore, so they’re going back home. Including legal immigrants. If things keep going the way they are, soon enough, no one’s going to want to come here in the first place.
By the way, my great-parents were also immigrants. And I still appreciate that the US was willing to give them a home.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
#97
Well I could say the same for Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Porsche, et al in the U.S. Works for me.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
I really have to protest the disappearance of the edit function.
I make way too many mistakes. It is one of the great features on this site. Please put it back, Lyle. Thank you.
-One of your oldest commentators,
Rashiid Amul.
—-
Edit: Thank you Lyle. That was really fast.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
And I think Americans should boycott European companies. Of course, that’s rather difficult considering how many formerly American companies Europeans are buying these days….
By the way, you might have difficulty getting the British or the Polish to go along with that…But, hey, if Opel disapears due to the boycotts, the engineering comes back to the US. I think that’s a win win.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
#79
Exactly my point. I wonder how much of the growth of the health care industry is driven by people totally stressed out by the sorry state of the economy, LOL?
November 6th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
I find it almost impossible to accurately discover (before purchase) the country-of-origin for all the bits that make up the product. I have recently purchased what I thought were entirely USA-made products only to find the tiny little sticker later that says ‘made in China’.
As far as consumer electronics, that ship has sailed (pun intended). You can’t get a USA-manufactured LCD, for example, since no US companies make them. Ergo, anything with an LCD is foreign made, at least in part.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I would like to see it on a bit of a rougher road with blacktop potholes, etc. But that’s not bad.
As for the person who said they started off as a “GM killed the electric car” believer and only bought Honda and Toyota. It’s rather funny, as those last two companies had more to do with the killing of the EV1 than GM did.
That movie should be burned alive…..it so misrepresents matters. The truth of the matter, the technology wasn’t there yet. What made the difference from the 90’s to 2009. Cell phones. Yup, portable electronics drove a battery industry into advancement. That gave us better battery tech and more knowledge. It also placed a roadmap of advancement making it a more feasible task.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Brake for anglers…
Be careful out there.
=D~
November 6th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
The growth in the health care industry is a combination of an aging population and the fact no one pays the true cost.
On a slow day I’ll post the way health care should operate.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
That’s true in many cases, but not all. A lot of our manufacturing is currently automated so that labor is a small fraction of the cost of the final good. But they get tax benefits from producing overseas.
Take the pharmaceutical companies, for example. They get the vast majority of their money from ripping off the American consumer. Everyone else gets to pay less for drugs invented here. And manufactured by our companies overseas. (specifically Ireland) to get the tax benefits. Labor is more expensive in Europe (more expensive than here actually), but they wouldn’t dare manufacture their high tech new drugs in China where the formulas can be easily stolen.
At least with the unions, sometimes they can strike to prevent companies from moving jobs overseas. It’s definately not a perfect system. Take the recent UAW vote about Ford. That’s going to move more production overseas. But they don’t see that. Or if they do, they don’t care.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
What would you accept for a pothole the grand canyon, ?
November 6th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Health care prices are escalating all over the world. Yes. The world population is aging. But we also have new very expensive treatments that didn’t exist ten years ago.
But many countries with much older populations pay much less than we do. Our health care system is extremely inefficient in almost all respects. Take billing for example. US doctors have to hire full time staff to cope with all the different rules of all the different insurance companies. Plus medicare. In Europe, it’s quick, easy, and automated. Doctors generally do it themselves.
Also, our food supply is unhealthy even aside from our higher rates of obesity and general bad eating habits. Organic chicken isn’t just better for the environment. It has healthier fats. And then there’s the agricultural runoff that contaminates our fruits and vegetables as well as our water supply. Remember ecoli in spinach? That doesn’t happen in Europe. I could go on….
November 6th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
“I’ve been spending a lot of time in VOLT IV’s lately,” Posawatz tells GM-Volt.com. “The car is very easy to fall in love with and holds great promise.”
We can be sure that the Chev Volt will be well tested in every respect to diffuse the notion that the Asians are the only ones to build quality cars.
Over the last several months I’ve noticed comparisons with the Volt and the Prius, particlarly in pricing. That’s like comparing apples to oranges. The Prius is cheaper to purchase because its a cheaper car. The Volt will be a high performance vehicle and should be compared with other high performance classed vehicles. So to those that continue to run off at the mouth about the cost of the Prius vs the Volt, enough already.
Please excuse my morning rant.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
How did we go from a video of the IVER quietly cruising down a bumpy road to a debate on health care?
Looks like the nationalization issue is out of our hands Laura. Our representatives are doing as they feel best. We must submit to this reality adapt and continue on.
I have been accumulating medical diagnostics equipment stock for the last 9 weeks. Into it about 23k now. This is how I’m coping with the system. One of the main points we’re hearing from DC is that early detection will cost us less over time. I feel some sort of government system will be seeded soon. This is all the administration needs to claim victory. The seed will grow from this point forward.
The medical stock is scheduled to report on 11/11/09. It’s either sink or swim for Dave K next Wednesday. Wish me luck, a Volt purchase my be in the balance. My other large holding is with a lithium battery supplier (30k). I have no fear about this one. They have been receiving some very nice orders and have just shipped 100 lithium batteries to a competitor of GM.
=D~
November 6th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Everyone here (mostly) already loves the car. Get some on the road already. Even road trips so we can ride in one!
November 6th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
It’s Friday, for one thing.
TGIF GM!
November 6th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
It wasn’t in the Union contract so we can’t have it.
LOL…..
P
November 6th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
The sooner the better. But I’m glad GM is taking their time to get it right
November 6th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
I would say no based on the ones I have seen. In fact yesterday was the first time I have seen a volt in the dark. The volt stands out a night there is something about the headlights that seems different.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
========================
Sorry, but Mad Cow Disease started in Great Britain…..
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/5008.php
November 6th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Mad Cow Disease is a prion disease. It’s not an antibiotic resistant bacteria that developed as a result of feeding antibiotics to animals. And the problem was basically restricted to meat. It didn’t infect fruits and vegetables due to unrestricted runoff.
Now. Admittedly, the British farmers shouldn’t have been feeding other animal’s brains to their livestock. European farm practices vary from country to country. And they’re far from ideal. But our procedures are much worse. And much less sanitary. And they’ve done a lot to improve their food safety in the years since. We, on the other hand, have watched ours get progressively less safe.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
I agree about Larry and welcome him to the club!
Re “everything panning out”- I can’t think of a single human endeavor where “everything panned out” It HAS to be in fits and starts, but the trick is to continue to chip away at the problems until they are overcome. It’s looking as if that’s exactly what the Volt team has accomplished.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
November 6th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Ditto!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
November 6th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
This thread is starting to sound like some “Angry Mob”!!!!!! ;>)
Spend spend spend it’s fun to spend other peoples money!
Back on topic.
As I have said the Volt is being driven all around Milford here are some pics of our potholes!
November 6th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
I understand that you are passionate about health and healthcare, but maybe some Volt discussion would be good (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
November 6th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
I wonder how the ride feels when it’s flomping over those cobblestones? It makes me hope the seats are supportive and comfortable… Please, please, please don’t make the seats shaped to hold somebody shaped like a snowman or the Michelin tire man or something. I swear the last 2 GM cars I rented had concave seats that made you sit slouched over like somebody just shot you in the back with a .38. (which is pretty much how you feel after a couple hours driving in a seat like that
On the bright side, I guess I’m feeling pretty confident about the whole Voltec drive thing if I’m becoming mostly concerned about the seats.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Never was deleted, must have been a bug.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Now here’s POTHOLE!
November 6th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Fill that hole with Vodka, with an Olive and it’s a “Cartini”!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!
November 6th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Please don’t. I’d rather see this site focus on the Volt or on electric cars related topics.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
lol. Thanks.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!
Dude, that’s funnier than the picture!!!
November 6th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
For the same reason there are problems in the food supply in America. Greed. They wanted to maximize profit, they ended up paying the price.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
November 6th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Moooo…….hehehehehe….
Moooo…….hehehehehe….
Moooo…….hehehehehe….
Guess what that is?
.
..
…
…
…..
……
…….
……..
………
……….
Mad Cow!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
November 6th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
And now for something completely different… Actual Volt news!
http://www.reuters.com/article/Autos09/idUSTRE5A45XM20091105
Datelined Thu Nov 5, 2009 4:49pm EST:
“Our thought is to take the Volt technology to other products,” Brent Dewar, chief of global operations for Chevrolet, told the Reuters Autos Summit in Detroit.
Opel, which GM said this week it would keep, will sell its extended-range Volt-derived Ampera in Europe alongside the Chevy Volt, he said.
Does the Ampera live after all??
November 6th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Hey Kev,
While yes, I see where most folks might be frustrated in not being able to buy the first Volts, what I do to ameliorate that feeling is to know that the Gen 2 will have FAR, FAR
November 6th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
What I think sucks ass is that they get two models and we get one.
Sup wit dat?
November 6th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
Note: The new system has some bugs where possibly there is some entirely outside interference somehow and statement improvements and corrections are not given a time to be edited.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
(Perhaps the metal frame of my laptop has induced an incorrect command when I inadvertently touched it during typing). This post continues from 136 and 138 above.
Continuing:
The neat trade off here is that the improvements coming through the pipeline (for Gen 2/3) might be considered a perfect offset to the time it takes to be able to acquire a Volt. I’m still going to be happy no matter what happens.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Production numbers only. Whatever they can make there gets sold there. All in the styling and being able to switch the component supply over from one to another. Maybe it has to do with more finicky styling selective options over there is what my guess would be CJS.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
And, I didn’t have a chance to switch “most folks” to “some folks”.
(Baaaad Laptop Computer!!! Nauuuughty Laptop Computer!!! Good thing the sledge hammer is out in the garage still!)
November 6th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
I would be shocked if it doesn’t. The business case for the Ampera in Europe is much stronger than it is in the United States. Europeans tend to be very eco-conscious. And gasoline is sky high there. I still think the only reason it was ever off is because Russia thinks it’s a threat to high oil prices.
Of course, that assumes that GM manages to hang onto Opel as an intact entity. The Opel unions are on strike, and they might not give GM the necessary concessions that they agreed to give Magna. And GM needs money that the German government might not give. (Although they claim that they will need less than the initial 3 billion.)
By the way, the head of GM Europe just resigned. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. But Bob Lutz is taking over as interim chairman until they can find a replacement.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601100&sid=aTS9SHL_Hwtc
November 6th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
nuclearboy,
I’m disappointed in you. Do you believe everything you see in writing? The only reference to the statement is printed on the Weekly Standard. No other news media makes the statement.
http://mediamatters.org/research/200911060016
You should check out to see how many media cites state the same! Weekly Standard is one of the right-wing media spreading false lies. The ones that especially angers me are the ones lying about the public health option. We should have a single payer system like Canada, England, or France. It works in their countries, it’ll work here.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
#143
Amen brother. Tell it like it is! +1, and I’d do better if I could.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
“We’re very close” to having enough votes to prevail, said Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland, although he added a scheduled Saturday vote could slip by a day or two…”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul
Am I uncaring for not wanting to pay for others health care? Or is it my right to expect others to pay their own way? We as individuals should be able to spend our money where we wish to in this “free” country.
Can I hide my money overseas to be eligible for free insurance? If I shack up long term with a lady and her three kids and we stay unmarried. Will she and her children be designated as single mother with three kids? The young will learn quickly that marriage is a penalty of the State. Once this new path is taken, would it be possible to rebuild the one that used to work? This could get very ugly.
=D~
November 6th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
GM should do more testing on VOLT for rough surface , should look into problems other cos face like Toyota facing the mat issue with accelrator padel etc ..Make it a quality vehicle which will change the perception of public about GM products … Alas I will not buy Volt until the 3 or 4 th year as I have been burned twice owning a GM car in the 90’s ..
Good luck GM …Hope you do better this time ..& hope someone from GM reads the comments ..
November 6th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
#143
Bob Lutz. LOL.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
Welll..
Gotta go to a meeting with Pat & Ron.You guys know them together as Patron.
L8r!
November 6th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Frost Heaves? How about some launch em off the ground and into orbit frost heaves? Best car I drove over frost heaves was a hydronumatic interconnected Austin. Way better than a Caddy Coupe DeVille of the same era… (as far as frost heaves) The worst for frost heaves? My jeep truck, silly thing bottomed out on the first heave of the season. After the jeep I erred on the side of bone jarring over sprung trucks. I must say looking at the Video the Volt will be way better than my long gone Jeep. And probably be better than my totally adequate and fun to drive HHR. I will say that it will not be as good as the adaptive Caddy that I had. That was fun to drive, but I did keep it away from the big frost heaves…
I did see a video of a actively suspended Caddy that could jump a 2×4 laying on edge with out knocking it over… I mean the car totally cleared the 2×4 on level ground! I do not think it made it to production.
/Oh, and a note to Corvette Guy on change… “Jail Barny Frank”
November 6th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
When Americans wake up and realize that by not buying produce made in the U.S.A., we are destroying our economy. Just as Corporations are looking to max out their profit and turn to offshore labor, they should realize that the U.S. citizens they lay off are less and less able to find decent paying jobs which leads to a cascade effect. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer and in greater numbers. Without manufacturering, the middle class disappears. If conditions were the same everywhere across the world; wages the same, etc., the problem would be different. But as long as there is such a disparity in wages across the globe, there will be no simple solution to our companies remaining competitive,
The automotive industry is interesting in its approach to worldwide supply of a given make and model. The major automotive companies have spread production across the globe, placing their factories in regions and employing the labor in those markets. The models they make for each region are often different. GM makes smaller cars for South and Central America while in North America the demand for larger vehicles exists. Matters are somewhat the same in Europe with small cars but they also have a clientele that like fast sporty cars. Some believe that the only solution to the problem of jobs going offshore is new technology.
Unless we improve the education of our children, we won’t have the knowledge base needed to lead in technology. The Chevrolet Volt represents that kind of effort needed to retain jobs in our country. We may have a technological lead over the rest of the world but that kind of thing doesn’t last long. Unless we continually innovate, an advantage can not be retained.
The answer to retaining work for our labor force may lie in a combination of new technology, collaboration between business and labor, negotiation between governments of competing countries, and an attitude of each countries citizens to support its own economy by diligently buying produce made in its own country. The one problem with all of this lies with Wall Street; the very people who got us into the current recession and forever will be a problem unless they are regulated to prevent the type of schemes that got us into the current recession.
All in all, buying “Made in the U.S.A.” will take us all a long way to getting jobs for our fellow countrymen.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Only you can determine that! Just hope the shoe isn’t on the other foot some day. What goes around comes around.
As far as “Or is it my right to expect others to pay their own way?”, correct me if I,m wrong: I don’t believe the Constitution gives us that right.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
November 7th, 2009 at 12:47 am
ProV … the shoe used to be on the other foot. I went to the $10 clinic for medical assistance. In 2 or 3 years when 1 in 3 hospital beds are taken by street IV users. And people are working under the table to avoid having earnings on their record. You may see it a different way.
=D~
November 7th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
#150
Thank you.
November 7th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
#151
When i see stuff like this on health care, immigration, or Barney Frank, come to that, I think of the days when our poor mother used to dutifully drag us to Sunday School. Alas not very much of it stuck with me, but some things do come back sometimes.
For example, Jesus Christ was quoted as saying something like:
“As you do to the least among you, so you do unto me.”
In fact, didn’t he have quite a bit to say about our duty to help the poor? I dunno, I don’t go around proclaiming myself as a Christian, so probably others know better than I do.
November 7th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
I wonder what the UAW could do to back up GM return to a profitable company? Any Ideas?
November 7th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Looks like someone is going to donate their Volt to the Community Rehab Center. We’re proud of you.
“Thou shalt not kill”
Let’s petition the Senate to abolish the army. I recall reading that we shouldn’t be killing anyone.
______________________________________
If citizens wish to donate $1, $2 or even $5 million dollars to the local hospital it’s their choice. Many successful Hollywood producers, authors, and celebrities are doing this. But to frisk the guy on the street who has put the effort forward to get ahead a little in life is wrong. And on top of that, it’s un-American. You’ll see.
=D~
November 10th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Who needs a global economy, America certainly does not. It can make everything it needs. For a global economy to work, there has to be something in place to even out the disparity in wages, industrial costs, etc.