AND 
GM’s Expectations for the Chevy Volt
Martin Lamonica of CNET had the chance to interview Tony Posawatz, the Volt’s vehilce line director about what GM’s expectations were for the car.
As to whether GM believes the Volt will be a commercial success Posawatz replied ominously “all bets are off if gas prices are under two bucks a gallon.”
“We don’t anticipate that in the long term, and because the launch volume in the first few months is relatively modest, I think we can do OK,” he said.
“I think the real question will be in the 2012 time frame,” said Posawatz. “Where will the economy be then and can we reach beyond the early adopters?”
Clearly GM knows it can count on us early adopters to suck up all the initial low volume production models, but another question posed to Pozawatz was whether GM believes it can one day reach a broad audience with the car.
“We think we can,” he said. “The intent is that in year two we will be making tens of thousands of vehicles.”
Posawatz feels the unique drivability will compel buyers. “You have a low center of gravity, and you have instantaneous torque–you can burn rubber on the car–and no transmission shifts… It will have a high “fun to drive” quotient,” he said.
Clearly price is an issue for mass market adoption, and GM has plans to get effective cost lower in addition to the $7500 tax credit available to initial buyers.
“We anticipate that some localities (could) give you preferred parking, HOV access, free electricity at place of work–all which will end up being positive,” said Posawatz. “And there are some interesting business models as it relates to spreading the cost of the battery over time (such as leasing). We’re investigating a lot of this stuff.”
He was asked whether it was OK that projections for electric cars suggest they will only make up about 1 percent of sales in 5 years, considering all the attention the Volt is beig given.
“Like a lot of stuff, the gen one version is probably not the most important play,” he repled. “It’s ultimately what we do after that.”
He referred to new body styles and cost reductions on the manufacturing and supplier side. “This is a much more of a longer-term game,” he said.
Finally the reporter asked him if he thought Toyota more conservative approach was a mistake.
“Every company has to find what they think is their formula for winning,” he replied. “We think the regular hybrid architecture is still an internal combustion engine. We now have the possibility of different variants for engine generators.” Though he added “we have hybrids too.”
Source (CNET)
UPDATE: If you are interested in asking questions of exiting Volt vehilce line executive Frank Weber and his replacement Doug Parks, come here at 4PM EDT they will both be present in the chatbox below:
150 Responses to “GM’s Expectations for the Chevy Volt”
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November 1st, 2009 at 4:50 pm
No question that price is a factor.
Cost must come down.
And the 1% of sales statistic, I believe is bunk.
Does anyone really think that if all these companies are investing heaving in EVs, that they all expect to capture much less than 1% of the market each?
Lyle, it was a nice thing you did yesterday in the road race.
You are a good human being, Doctor.
November 1st, 2009 at 4:52 pm
2.
Guy Incognito Says:
November 1st, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Try advertising.
=D~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
November 1st, 2009 at 5:02 pm
(click to show comment)
November 1st, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Toyota already has the Prius, so they can afford to be more conservative about next moves.
November 1st, 2009 at 5:05 pm
The options are endless with the Volt’s powertrain.
A better battery comes out, plunk it in.
A better genset configuration comes out, plunk it in.
These options don’t exist on the traditional Hybrid, EV or ICE!
All possibilities are on the table. I for one am going to put my $$ down in support of GM and the risk they took with this. I want my very own Volt
November 1st, 2009 at 5:08 pm
“all bets are off if gas prices are under two bucks a gallon.”
Since gas will likely not fall much below $2.49, even pondering the thought of $1.99 is rather pointless.
A far more insightful question/response would have been, what if gas prices remain stable for the next few years?
November 1st, 2009 at 5:16 pm
I think GM is underestimating demand. This will be a game changer.
Yes, the price will have to come down, and I’m sure it will. But there are a lot of reasons to want an EREV, most of which don’t have to do with the price of gas. For example, I know many people who hate going to the gas station, which is something the Volt largely eliminates. There are many other reasons like this that will attract people to EREVs.
In my mind, the only real questions are:
1) Will there be competition?
2) Will GM have the right EREV models?
Competition is essential. As more car makers get into this, the parts suppliers unit volumes go up, the reliability goes up, and the price comes down. This is what GM’s CEO is saying here:
http://gm-volt.com/2009/10/29/gm-ceo-says-help-needed-to-achieve-mass-adoption-of-electric-cars/
As for models, there has to be more than 1. The luxury Converj makes a ton of sense, and an EREV version of the Orlando will be essential for those requiring more seating or cargo space. Together with the Volt, thats 3 models that covers a lot of the market, and they all use the same exact compact car platform. Let’s hope GM management gets bold and sees the market potential here. Strong early demand for the Volt will help with this.
November 1st, 2009 at 5:23 pm
One thing I forgot to add…
I’m not an early adopter. Never liked being a Beta tester. Too much risk.
But this time I’m in line just due to the fact that I won’t be thinking of gas prices EVERY time I fill up. That piece of mind alone is worth a bit more on the monthly payment. Add to that most people will be driving ICE’s and I’m not just leaves me all smiles!! If I choose to I can fill up @ work, any buddy’s place, and maybe even while shopping.
November 1st, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Hello fellow ‘Volt’iers!
I’ve been reading very ‘insight’-ful comments, and none of the comments seemed to ‘pious’. Furthermore, I think that we are going to see a ‘fusion’ among the regular ICE dominance with the emerging PHEV’s entering the market. I don’t believe people are going to ‘leaf’ ICE behind completely b/c of the ‘range’r anxiety associated with BEV. ‘Altim’ately we will see a niche market for these vehicles that rely solely on the ‘tesla’ invention of centuries past. ‘Karma’ will come back and bite the companies that have gambled with this setup, as they find out that this market is truly ‘mini’ature. GM will ‘escape’ this trap and will instead be ahead of the game in 5 years.
So, its up to them (GM) to screw it up. They are leading the way…….. and….. IF there isn’t too many missteps, ….and they develop a variety of vehicles on the architecture (in a reasonable amount of time) then they will see mass adoption to their product. I’m pulling for GM, and if the Volt is as good as it seems to be….. then all of us are in for a brighter future.
P.S. I didn’t set out to write this response…..this way, it just came out like that by accident in the first sentence….. and I went with it..lol)
November 1st, 2009 at 5:35 pm
I hope GMAC offers some very good financing for this car. I want it, but I know I can’t afford without a good financing deal.
How long is the tax credit available for? First x amount of buyers? 1 year? How does that work?
Does anyone know what options there are for people in apartments like me to charge their Volt? I live in a apartment with a parking lot.
November 1st, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Folks, where I work (software company) the book “Crossing the Chasm” is becoming almost a bible. A key thesis of this book is how to take a product through various stages of the market and (it appears to me) that there is almost no respect for “early adopters”. But it strikes me that the Volt appeals to “early adopters” in more than one market. One market is for environmentalists, one is for electronics geeks, One is for unique performance in vehicles. How many others as well? What do you think?
John
November 1st, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Hmmm…never say never on gas prices…too many “ifs”. The last 20 years have proven it.
- BEVs/EREVs might get to an affordable price within a few years
- Government intervention
- Small cars and/or public transportation become the fad
- Oil companies decide windfall profits are not the norm
- Worldwide global financial depression (Hopefully not true)
While these seem unlikely… other events in recent history seemed unlikely. It can go either way…what does not change? The importance of oil to the industrial nations…at least until diversification of energy sources for automobiles is achieved.
GM wants to become viable…just make a great product (and service) at a great price.
November 1st, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Posawatz feels the unique drivability will compel buyers. “You have a low center of gravity, and you have instantaneous torque–you can burn rubber on the car–and no transmission shifts… It will have a high “fun to drive” quotient,” he said.
————-
“Fun to drive” — I hope Volt has enough acceleration to be so. The appearance is nice but sedate, in the elderly Buick sense, so Volt really needs a reputation for fun to drive.
November 1st, 2009 at 7:15 pm
I think that there is enough highly-serious long term distrust for the price of gas for it to become a greatly reduced factor.
The price of gas is so overplayed within America. Look around, and all you see jumping out as you pass by each gas station as you drive anywhere in America is the price of gas, held up really high and really large. It’s truly ridiculous.
These signs ought to be all taken down. It’s just gotten ridiculous how the price of gas is so “front and center”, even though the world is repeatedly bitten by speculation and whatever other thing is represented to spike the cost.
While yes, it really hurts a lot of people when it spikes, the very nature of the Volt is to help in the gradual reduction of the effect of those gas spikes with non-use. (Even, if you like, altruistic to others by your not using gasoline, and, reducing demand greatly on a “per vehicle” basis).
I like the idea as was presented about how a battery lease might somehow help in overall monthly payment costs, now that the battery might be represented to last something like 14 years at 5,000 charge and discharge cycles. My previous concern there was the statement made two years ago that the battery might be needing replacement once in the “life” of the vehicle.
But 14 years may be a whole different situation, making a 5 year lease sound not quite so bad if the lease factor was low enough, and, the buyout at the end was a dollar or a set low cost to be re-financed possibly at the end of a five year note or added in toward the end of a 6 or 7 year very low interest note, keeping the original low interest in place.
November 1st, 2009 at 7:40 pm
“We have hybrids too.” What GM doesn’t have is a $21,000 midsize hybrid that gets 50 mpg, and they aren’t working on one.
November 1st, 2009 at 7:46 pm
“Finally the reporter asked him if he thought Toyota more conservative approach was a mistake.”
That must be the stupidest question ever. Toyota’s developed a product no one else can touch, the car is profitable and they sell 18K of them per month. GM only has two vehicles that sell at a rate higher than 18K/month.
““We anticipate that some localities (could) give you preferred parking, HOV access, free electricity at place of work–all which will end up being positive,” said Posawatz.”
Woo-hoo! More subsidies for the Volt! Thank goodness! I mean, surely $7500/car can’t possibly be enough, can it?
November 1st, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Way too low production volumes, If it was in Australia for our smallest state it would still be low.
For the whole of the NA it’s a joke. What about exports for Opel or
even Australia ?
GM better ramp up production otherwise it will be labled a marketing “image” scam.
They have done that before, time to move on GM and make these in serious quatities – or you want to give the opposition time to ramp up?
I’m just amazed …….
November 1st, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Some very good points here.
All brands of EV will sell better with gasoline prices OVER three bucks a gallon. This means the Volt must be superior to the other available EV. The consumer will shop for EV and weigh sticker price against technology, design, and performance. In the Volt column are intensive testing, 0-60 time under 9 seconds, range well over 300 miles, American made, and a nationwide dealership network.
There is a chance for more incentive adjustments through Federal and State agencies. Maybe the Republicans can tie an increased green rebate/tax credit into an agreement over a national health care bill.
NGMCO can back up their “Best Car Win” statement with standard 100,000 mile drivetrain and electronics on the Volt. NGMCO can seal the deal with attractive GMAC financing.
The Volt is already a popular model with an ever growing “want” list here at gm volt dot com. And a large percent of future Volt owners have never visited this site.
My last car purchase was made immediately after the test drive. My mindset was that I expected X acceleration with Y comfort and Z gas efficiency. A national test drive week for the Volt will reveal true appeal and demand. Don’t fear accepting $5k down payments with a 4 month lag time on delivery. Just be honest on the timetable.
=D~
November 1st, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Hope dealers don’t try to over inflate the price, with the to be low supply.
November 1st, 2009 at 8:22 pm
I struggled to read you post, but your not saying that Australia is a state, are you? And, do you think that Australia is a state of the US?
I think I just misunderstood you post….right?
November 1st, 2009 at 8:23 pm
If they can get it, they likely will.
It’s the America way…you take the good with the bad, that’s just they way it is.
November 1st, 2009 at 8:36 pm
You know, I also keep wishing that GM would build many many more of these in the first years than they’re currently planning to. Honestly though, if I were in their shoes I’d want to start off small too.
Everything’s about risk minimization, and this is a new technology for such a large scale production. Tesla’s got what, 700 cars delivered so far? For the Volt, we’re talking tens of thousands in the first year or two, that’s a big delta from the only other highway ready production EV currently on the market. They (GM) can test the heck out of it, but they can only minimize risk, not eliminate it.
In the end, this slower rollout might help to ensure that EV’s and EREV’s really do make pure gas combustion vehicles obsolete, and I for one hope that comes sooner than later!
November 1st, 2009 at 11:02 pm
While seeing the negative vote -s for this comment i feel face of truth is always disliked, I gave one +1 vote for truth.
Again from
Is he talking on Vette or Volt? is it for a prius competer ? I would have agreed if volt was a RWD car, Volt as i know is a fwd car with negatives of a RWD car ( less interior space – 4 seats instead of 5 because of battery)
I still love if he says we have 3 motors where primary motor is connected to back wheels for normal drive and 2 inwheel motors on front for regenerative breaking and limited 4×4.
By the way, Any updates on the DOE money GM received for creating RWD electric platform (30 million ) ?
November 1st, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Since the prius currently gets all of those “subsidies,” I don’t think that it’s unreasonable for GM to hope the Volt gets the same treatment.
November 1st, 2009 at 11:08 pm
Just a thought – a “Energy Security Subsidy”. Every barrel of oil not imported, thus savings for America and savings from spending hundred of billions of dollars in subsidizing foreigners by our fighting Middle-East wars for China and Japan, goes to incentivize American made electric vehicle sales.
November 1st, 2009 at 11:12 pm
The word “state” is not restricted to the US. Australia is also a federation. It has six “states,” and my guess is that that’s probably what the original poster was referring to.
http://www.australia.gov.au/about-australia/our-government
November 1st, 2009 at 11:12 pm
I know everyone says price is an issue, but i’m just not sold on $40,000 +$7500 tax credit being overpriced. I live in suburban detroit, so i can’t speak for everywhere else, but when i drive down I-75 i think about what cars of all the ones that i see around me were $40,000 or more when new? A damn good chunk! I see a ton if i look.
What is really so huge about a net $32,500 and rarely having to buy gas?
Don’t compare the price to other compact cars, because people aren’t going to be deciding between a Volt and a Cruze! Someone who is cruze shopping will be also looking at a corolla or a civic. Someone who is MKS, Fusion Hybrid (very close to $32,500 with a few options), Taurus, Accord, Acura, Avalon, Maxia, or Altima shopping will have an electric option also, the Volt.
It’s price range, not platform.
I just look it as there are lots of people who spend $40,000 on an automobile driving all around me.
November 1st, 2009 at 11:13 pm
“We think the regular hybrid architecture is still an internal combustion engine. We now have the possibility of different variants for engine generators.”
This is exactly the way GM should be thinking! The ICE is a 20th century, overly complex, dirty, noisy, polluting, contraption. The hybrid makes it even more complex.
I would rather have an EREV (series hybrid) with a small battery and a 1 mile AER than a typical parallel hybrid. The all electric drive is just so sweet!
GM may be industry leaders again after all.
November 1st, 2009 at 11:36 pm
” “We have hybrids too.” What GM doesn’t have is a $21,000 midsize hybrid that gets 50 mpg, and they aren’t working on one. ”
Yes they are, google BAS + or BAS Plus.. this will be GM’s low cost hybrids.. similar to the Honda Insight powertrain architecture.
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:12 am
No, that system uses a smaller motor and delivers a smaller efficiency improvement. It and Volt leave a product void, no middle-market car to compete directly with Ford’s hybrid Fusion or Toyota’s Prius.
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:43 am
definitely the volt will be a game changer and it will help GM to gain the lost market share.
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:51 am
Man, looking at the Volt in the picture, it sure looks nice but ohh that clearance. That will definitely be a bit of a drag in northern US and Canada; the lands of ice, snow and heavy slush. But I assume they’ve conquered these concerns or maybe they’re planning a different vehicle for the north by 2012.
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:44 am
About 3 months ago engineering responded to the issue of ground clearance. They plan on keeping the Volt low. This provides higher range and also appeals to the younger buyer. Vehicles with higher clearance should reach showrooms as battery technology improves.
Many here have stated that the decision to buy an EREV will be made between themselves and their spouse. In my case, an EREV crossover is a much easier sale. I’ll be trading in our CR-V.
Chevy Orlando
=D~
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:02 am
Posawatz on the Volt: Not confidence inspiring.
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:53 am
In favor of your thinking is the world-wide demand for Volts, the international visibility of the Volt, and the relatively diminished value of the dollar. It may be that all available Volts can easily be sold outside the USA.
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:54 am
Japan gives up to $15,000 per buyer for some of their new auto technologies. I suggest you balance your arguments, dagwood55 whoever you are.
PS. Is that a short enough set of sentences for you to read through and comprehend? It would be difficult to make it shorter than this. Now you can “blast away all day” if you like. I’ve got to go to work.
Have a terrific day, everyone else.
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:05 am
I thought his comments were more substantialand believable than many other gm comments have been After reading them I thought more highly of the Volt program as one that has gm’s support as a commercially sensible program, one with high hopes but some realism too.
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:10 am
I imagine GM has to be somewhat coy with their future Voltec plans. This is the right thing to do strategically. I am concerned about Mr Pasawatz’s undertones. They extend a lot of the stubborness and lack of understanding for the entire market that GM has shown over the years. I just don’t see enough commitment to make Voltec. I’m hearing “if the stars align and we are somehow shown we can make SUV-sized profits because of incredibly high demand that we don’t fundamentally believe in we will continue to keep Voltec in our pocket.”
I hope I’m wrong and they have secretly greenlighted the Converj and an Orlando Voltec. Time will tell and we just have to keep up the pressure from our end to build these cars. We have to reach our friends and try to help them understand the long term importance of this technology so our collective voice gets louder. If we haven’t been fully listened to yet, we will be eventually.
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:45 am
Maybe Mr Posawatz and friends are doing things just right. In the face of considerable skepticism about the future commercial success of EREV, they have kept the Volt program going and seemingly on track. At the same time, they are not over-promising, which would be unbelievable anyway.
The future is going to be heavily dependent on how quickly people buy the intial batches of Volts. If the enthusiasm of those here converts into strong demand and actual sales of the first Volts, both in the US an world wide, Volts and Volt brothers and sisters will have a strong future.
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:46 am
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:54 am
I didn’t say those subsidies were right. HOV lanes are evil, anyway. And the Prius doesn’t get free electricity in the workplace.
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:22 am
Do you live in Japan? I don’t. And the fact is, Toyota has what GM does not have: a commercially successful hybrid. The report’s question was stupid.
RB discussed the commercial success of the Volt… the chief impediment to success will be cost. Much of the cost is driven by the battery, which will remain expensive for some time to come. When batteries are no longer expensive, the price of pure EVs will actually fall faster, as the battery is a larger percentage of vehicle cost. And manufacturers with strong hybrids (e.g., Toyota) will be able to offer PHEVs with little in the way of product development, on platforms that are already fully amortized.
We just gave GM about $60 billion. It’s not a loan, the government took equity in place of it. GM has no business doing anything that doesn’t offer immediate hope of commercial success and profitability.
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:55 am
Notice how this EXPECTATION topic glosses over the the subject of VOLUME.
That’s not a good sign, if the hope is a big price drop following introduction. For that to be realistic, annual production well over the minimum of 5,000 per month (60,000 annual) is required.
How will the confidence be established to justisfy (business risk) such an increase in production, then maintain it?
November 2nd, 2009 at 9:23 am
#25 jbfalaska
I did this math a while back but it is easy to argue that the $7500 government credit is totally worth it. And in fact it should be upgraded to a credit at purchase and extended well beyond the first 250,000 volts, to something like the first few million.
A car whose lifetime includes 150,000 AER and displaces 5000 gallons of gas or 120 barrels of oil. That alone at $100 a barrel (the average cost of oil over lifetime of car is likely to be more like $200 a barrel or more but even at $100 a barrel from 2012-2022) keeps $12,000 in our economy instead of going overseas to import oil.
So a $7500 tax credit helps
- keep $12,000 in our economy instead of our enemies, and probably more like $24,000 just for oil
- For the volt since largely American made there is more jobs in the building of the car
- Cleaner environment
- Brings us toward the day when we don’t have to import oil and have our national security dependant on keeping the Persian Gulf oil flowing. The value of this is hard to caluculate but this alone could be worth the $7500
November 2nd, 2009 at 9:39 am
#44 add on:
Another way to look at it is a government $7500 credit is $1.50 per gallon to use elecricity instead of oil.
So I think it can be argued that the payback for the government credit is pretty quick. But the huge payback is to get us quicker to that day where we import no oil, and of course the cost of these cars will come down much faster if EREVs and BEVS are being built in larger numbers.
My goal has been by 2012 to see EREVs/BEVs to reach sales of over 80,000 per month by the end of the year (so I’m pretty dissappointed to see the low numbers GM is talking about, maybe behind the scenes they are trying to get the government to expand their credits before increasing their production plans). This is probably the level of growth that will lead to the rapid technological developments (as well of economies of scale) needed to move EREVs and BEVs to be the mainstream. Then maybe be 2015 few people will want anything other than an EREV or BEV.
I think the Leaf could reach 20,000 per month by end of year (assuming gas over $3.50). I sure would like to see the Volt exceed that number and by then have other EREVs in different shapes and sizes on the way.
November 2nd, 2009 at 9:40 am
GM/Posawatz have lots of reasons to be conservative – starting with the tried-and-true mantra of “undersell and overdeliver”. Reason two is that they don’t want to start hyping potential demand and pull other OEM’s into this market prematurely.
As for the Volt being a “conservative/Buick” styled car, those remarks are from people who have only seen the car in pictures – mark my words here – the Volt in person is a beautiful, striking car, and projects a very modern look. The cues are unmistakable, and you WILL be impressed ! Two dimensional photos are VERY unflattering to vehicle styling ( think: putting greens on television, compared to what they actually look like in person ).
GO GM ! GO VOLT !
November 2nd, 2009 at 9:44 am
The current credit is 200,000 per automaker.
So… what happens when the credits, whatever the quantity, are phased out? How will production volume be managed then? Don’t forget about contracts with suppliers.
November 2nd, 2009 at 9:45 am
Immediate success? Is that really what you meant? A car company should only concentrate on immedaite success?
Thankfully the public investment is not under your control. It is this mindset that got them and many other companies into trouble in the first place. Car development is on a 3-5year design cycle and some techs take longer to develop. They need to be mindfull of the immediate, near, mid and long term or failure is just a matter of time. They could kill all car and program development and make lots of money for a couple of years. Death would shortly follow.
November 2nd, 2009 at 10:04 am
Price. I want an electric car because I want one, not because it will save me money, or because the price of gas is too high. Exactly what part of this don’t the GM ‘tards get? I have to be able to afford the car at all to even consider it.
November 2nd, 2009 at 10:05 am
Each company, just like people, must find their own way to success. Not every path is the right one for each company/person. IMO.
I might also add that the Volt looks mighty good sitting in that driveway. It looks ready to “rumble”.
November 2nd, 2009 at 10:06 am
I just hope we are on the list of dealers that get to sell “Year One” VOLTs. And I hope we get 1 unit just for test drives. i would like to be able to prove that “high “fun to drive” quotient,” to anybody that DOES HAVE $40 Grand to spend on a great car.
November 2nd, 2009 at 10:14 am
GM needs to look only to Ford for examples on what to do. They just cranked out a $1B profit in this recession. Very impressive numbers. They made the right play not taking bailout money. And their Focus hybrid and Escape are huge hits.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091102/ap_on_bi_ge/us_earns_ford
November 2nd, 2009 at 10:27 am
First of all, the whole reason Toyota has the Prius is because they planned ahead. Not short term as you would have GM do. GM needs to do more of that, not less. As a taxpayer, I want a long term repayment for my investment. THat means investing in the future.
Second of all–you’re OK with Japanese subsidies to their car companies because you aren’t paying for it? Do you think their government does it out of altruism? They do it because it helps their economy! The US needs to do the same thing if we hope to remain a relevant economy.
How do you expect GM, or any US manufacturer for that matter, to compete with Japanese manufacturing if we don’t give them the same aid that the Japanese give their manufacturers?
If you buy gasoline for work related travel, it’s tax deductable. That could be viewed as a subsidy to the oil companies. Do you have a problem with that too?
The free charging would be available for any EV from any manufacturer. In fact, it will probably help the LEAF (and other BEVs) more than the Volt since the Volt’s primary advantage is that it doesn’t actually need charging outside the home. Given the numerous benefits to society at large when drivers use electricity rather than gasoline (cleaner air, less money going to Saudi Arabia, etc.), I don’t see the problem.
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:06 am
Your short sighted fast make a buck paradigm is what made GM crash to begin with….they did NOT look to the future and L-o-n-g term investment. {naturally with endless cheap oil they didn’t have much motivation for the US market at least.}
Nothing is immediate…and if it is it never lasts….The Volt is indeed a game changer. I guess it takes time for people to embrace change….but it is coming in 2010. Volt 1.0
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:09 am
believe that bottom section, skirt, will tear away easily. easily replaced, come summer.
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:11 am
Isn’t it $33K with the tax benefit?
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:33 am
Toyota has one car that sells 18k/month, GM has “only” two that sell HIGHER, and therefore GM is the one that doesn’t know what it’s doing? You’re funny, lol.
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:40 am
With the recent statements from Fritz Henderson about the need for other auto makers to get into the EV business so as to help bring down the price of the EV power train parts, I got to wondering if GM was hoping someone else would do it all along, figuring Toyota and/or Honda would get into it and then they could capitalize once the parts came down. Eventually GM was pretty much between a rock and a hard place and they had to be the first ones. They knew when they saw Tesla selling cars for $110,000, they could sell Volts for a hefty premium and still move them.
I’m glad GM took the first step, even though it was an expensive one, but I have no doubt it will pay off. I think Pasowatz realizes the features of the Volt over a Cruze.
1. Instant torque, low center of gravity, quiet, fun to drive
2. Don’t have to feel guilty about contributing to US trade deficits/corrupt Middle Easterners/US soldiers sacrificing their lives in the Middle East to secure oil.
3. Don’t have to go to gas stations near as often.
4. Don’t have to worry about future gas prices for those who believe the prices will keep going up.
and many others.
But not everyone will be sold on those features obviously.
They are selling the Volt in low volumes for this same reason, they worry they can’t sell tens of thousands of them at a high price until the cost comes down.
For GM to encourage competing auto makers to compete with them on their flagship vehicle says two things which are ironically seemingly somewhat in disagreement.
1. They are very confident the Volt will stack up well.
2. They really don’t have faith that they can sustain high volume sales of the Volt unless others help commoditize the EV power train parts.
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:41 am
Yes, except that the Honda Insight isn’t completing all that well with the Prius, either. IMHO, it’s because the Prius isn’t half-assed about being a hybrid or about being a transportation appliance for people with modest needs, which makes it into a good overall A-to-B car.
But, I guess an Insight-style drivetrain could sell, if it’s cheap enough and in a car that’s already appealing for some other reason. And if it’s going to be sold to people who aren’t already driving hybrids of some sort — it’s hard to imagine a situation where such a vehicle probably wouldn’t convince us to trade in our paid-off ‘04 Prius.
But, then again, if I can afford a Volt, I’d love to kick the oil habit!
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:48 am
Er, I meant “it’s hard to imagine a situation where such a vehicle would convince us to trade in our paid-off ‘04 Prius” in the above comment.
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:05 pm
The point is IF we (U.S.) are producing 60 mpg-1000 mile range vehicles of any kind in the 2012 time frame, gas WILL be under $2.00. Gas prices are driven by pretty much by U.S. – China is not a prime factor – maybe in 25 years. Furthermore China has committed itself to leading edge EV’s. EU is a factor but its much tighter economic metrics only steepen the price-market elasticity curve.
GM went down over broad primary market factors consequentially adverse over which it had none or little control. Starting with $4+ gas prices hitting $5. From there it was all down hill- a very steep hill. A previous poster who believes we are working overtime on gas prices obviously doesn’t know the pain for working folks shelling out $50-$100 week just to get to work. Nothing ever impacted the U.S. economy as did $5 gas prices. Transportation, health, housing, food prices – and all the dominoes fell. Ultimately-agree or not, bail-outs & stimulus.
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Everyone who drives a Volt will make a giant contribution to keeping gas prices as stable as possible for as long as possible. The consequences of that for our economy and national security would be huge.
I don’t want to step out of character and sound too positive here, but I firmly believe that there are enough Americans who will step up and support this idea to let GM sell all of the Volts it can build in the next several years.
I would a lot rather fill up the “range extender” fuel tank on my vot with $3.00 gast than with $6.00 gas.
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Congratulations to Lyle on the marathon. Looks like a very good time to me (4:02:58).
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Absolutely. And how about people who want to help to maintain a viable economy in the U.S., slow the hemorrhage of oil dollars and jobs overseas, and minimize the need for military adventures to “protect” our “vital interest” in our oil supplies. And I’m sure that others can come up with quite a few more.
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Stock of GM will be resold next year. Returns to the government come from that. Funding GM was not a “gift” as you say. The government might even hold onto a greater part of GM stock to make more money later, selling only some of it at first to test the initial returns, which is very wise.
Your statements are all over the place and not grounded well in fact at all.
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Koz and LauraM,
There’s a difference between planning for the future and a senseless sacrifice. At this point, GM’s most optimistic projection for the Volt is 60K/year, five years from today. GM doesn’t have five years, even after our $60 billion. As I pointed out, the vehicle is expensive, by any measure, the subsidy will wear off before they break out of their 60K/year plan and the battery cost isn’t going to drop commensurate with the drop in subsidy. If battery prices do drop, cheaper vehicles with a battery as a higher percentage of overall vehicle cost will actually see their costs drop far faster than the Volt’s costs will (it’s two cars in one and the conventional bits aren’t going to get much cheaper at all).
My problem with the Volt is, still, that they would have been better off spending money on things that would return them to profitability in a reasonable time frame. Otherwise, GM will remain on the dole.
—
hayley,
Go look at Toyota’s sales volume, again. They have one HYBRID car that sells 18k units/month, profitably. Then there’s the Corolla and Camry, which outsell everything in GM’s lineup. Profitably.
This goes back to my original objection, Toyota has built a car that sells, profitably, in volume and is likely to do so for at least anothe five years. That’s not any kind of mistake. The reporter’s question was stupid. Further, Toyota’s play wasn’t even conservative… they introduced HSD when oil prices were relatively low and hybrid vehicles were entirely unknown. That took guts.
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Yes I did live in Japan, at Kadena AFB and served as a counterintelligence analyst specializing in technology investigations. The exceptional Air Force Tech School training had prepared me well to analyze automotive designs. And, as you know, I am wholeheartedly impressed with Volt.
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
When CorvetteGuy sells the Volt, it will be approx $43,000.00.
The price on the sales sheet will NEVER show a subtraction of the rebate nor will it show on the loan papers if financed.
So when you drive it off the lot, you paid full price.
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Way OT……
I have a question. When GM comes out with the Cruze, what will be the number built? 20,000? 30,000? 40,000? per year?
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
So long as there are more buyers than cars, they will and they should. It is the best way to allocate a car to the person who wants it most. But that will be only for a short time.
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:17 pm
CorvetteGuy–
In return for your loyal and informative posts, I hope you get Volts year one and get a substantial supply of them. They need to be in your hands. That is, they need to be in the hands of the few sales people such as yourself who understand what the car is all about and what makes it special, and they need to be sold by relatively few dealers so that those dealers have enough volume to make good service training and equipment worth its costs.
I know this argument means that Volts won’t get to NC for a while longer, but realistically they will never get to NC until they are successful in the first few dealerships, so I want those to be big successes for all concerned.
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Toyota unveiled the Prius in 1997. They started work on it in 1993. This was a multi-year project for them that’s now paying off. GM needs to make the same kind of long term investments. The US economy, in general, needs to make the same kind of long term investments. We don’t do nearly as much long term thinking as we should.
The Volt appeals to people who don’t want BEVs. Period. Unless they find a way to charge them in five minutes or less. And have the capability to charge them as widespread as the current gas stations. And I don’t see that happening, realistically, for at least 10 years. That makes the Volt the realistic solution for the forseeable future.
And, personally, I think they can easily do a lot more than 60,000 in sales five years from now. Hopefully, GM has more potential production under wraps.
And, by the way, the Volt is not the only thing GM is spending money on. Far from it.
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:20 pm
In real life the Insight gets about the same mpg as a Prius, people are not buying it because Honda made some mistakes decontenting the car to lower its cost. Its an economical architecture since it only uses one motor and one inverter.. the Volt, Prius and Escape use two motors and two inverters and that has to cost a bit more.
I really would prefer if GM had built the motor into the transmission, but keep it simple, no more of the 2-Mode complexity with its 5 clutches.
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:25 pm
There was an article here a while back, GM had ordered some specialized component (a pump?) for the Volt in very large quantities.. 500k I seem to remember.
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Here is a better picture showing the clearance.. it has lots.
http://gm-volt.com/2009/10/18/chevy-volt-prototype-spotted-in-a-home-driveway/
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I totally agree. In Jean Jennings’ column in the current “Automobile”, she describes the “surprise” of FIAT’s Sergio Marchionne, “at discovering that Cerberus had shut down Chrysler engineering two years ago.” Which only proves your point, IMHO.
As a non-volunteer “equity” holder in GM, I submit that they have a duty to pursue projects such as the Volt, which will clearly make an incremental contribution to the economic success and national security of the USA. If I were the POTUS, Secretary of the Treasury, or Chairman of the Federal Reserve, i would demand that they do so, on pain of withdrawl of taxpayer support, and the inevitable resulting corporate death.
It’s that important.
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Let me know when you get one, and I’ll be right there to pick it up. Are you taking deposits?
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:37 pm
I’ll be laughing at all of the poor jokers burning gas. That’ll be fun!
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Yeah, me too, as much as it pains me. “The truth hurts”, my mother always used to say.
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:48 pm
As many as they can sell.
Lordstown ‘has’ the capacity to build around 325,000 units in a year. Demand is currently clipping around 120,000 for the Cobalt.
***IF*** there is strong demand, it will likely be the new engine that could limit the production cap in the near term…not sure the export capacity is from Austria, or what importing does to the margin of the car.
The capacity for the new 4 banger out of Flint(sequential port…not DI) will be 200,000ish when it ramps up in 2011. (Very limited domestic production for first 6 months of Cruze production…thanks to bankruptcy putting it into hiatus for awhile)
GMNA is probably banking on the Cobalt’s replacement to be around 12,000/month going-forward (after the intial wave), and buiding inline with that kind of capacity.
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Honda had a problem .It is a small company and way behind in hybrid technology. Honda’s IMA only adds 10 HP. The new BAS II+ adds over 15HP,much more than the negligible 5 hp of the original, to the equation. So a Bas II hybrid is fully the equal and superior to the Insight architecture, as a hybrid.
The insight would have been laughed at if it were introduced by anyone other than sainted Honda. In a few months when people actually looked at the Insight and saw what it actually was, sales cratered. I just question whether there is that much demand for a sub C-segment mild hybrid, as a hybrid.
I believe Bas II was cost-designed to be an added as a standard feature, and will be looked at that way, much like windshield wipers, in a few years.
November 2nd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
CaptJack…
Based on current chevy Cobalt production, I would guess the expected year 1 Cruze production will be somewhere between 120,000 and 160,000 vehicles in the US.
November 2nd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
I agree. When one goes shopping for a car, they typically don’t care if it’s a mild or strong hybrid. They care for the MPG and if it’s a hybrid of any and doesn’t get at least 40-45mpg then they dismiss it.
Personally I think any hybrid should be “Strong” with high MPG and/or AER tiered at 10 or 20 or 30 or 40. The “tiering” will dictate cost and the shopper can purchase according to what they think
will be a best purpose.
November 2nd, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I am VERY CONFIDENT that EVERY VOLT GM CAN BUILD will find a happy owner in the USA! No need to think about exports in year one, although I agree the global market potential is HUGE for GM.
GM has been extremely open with VOLT development. They have been equally cautious with expectations. While there are still hurdles remaining, some of which are completely out of their control (like fuel prices), I continue to maintain that VOLT is a game changer and the Gen1 VOLT will be looked back upon in ten years as the watershed moment in GM’s turn-around.
Year one sales may not be huge, but every day the VOLT is on the market, hundreds, if not thousands, of consumer’s perceptions about GM will be changing. Many of them will not be able to afford the VOLT, but they will begin considering any number of other great GM products. The automotive press will also chime in as the doubters begin to see the VOLT in its ‘produciton flesh’ and the naysayers begin changing their tune.
November 2nd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
I didn’t use the term “gift,” although many see it that way. I said the government took equity. However, the government took equity in a business with negative cash flow. No sane financial analyst thinks the government is going to get its $60billion back next year. Analysis done on a “net present value” basis suggests that the government will never get its $60billion back. We don’t know if GM has positive cash flow, even today.
The proper term to use, when the time comes, will not be “gift” it will be ‘writeoff.”
November 2nd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Vincent:
Capt Jack is correct. As the plan works right now, the Buyer does not receive the $7500 until they file their next year’s Federal Tax Returns. This means that you pay sticker price if you want a VOLT. And you have to qualify for financing of a $40,000 auto.
However, I firmly believe that if our current President’s ‘approval ratings’ are as low, (or lower) than they are right now when the VOLT hits the showrooms, we will see some Democrat lawmakers pushing to get that changed to an ‘Instant Rebate’ just like the Cash-For-Clunkers” program.
Tick-Tock. Only time will tell…
November 2nd, 2009 at 3:52 pm
I hope your right because I wouldn’t be able to clear a lot of the speed bumps in parking lots.
November 2nd, 2009 at 3:54 pm
I am honored.
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:09 pm
When GM took the billions to keep afloat then wrote the debt off in BK, it’s a friggin “Gift”.
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:10 pm
I agree, it should also be a distinct model.. not an option for an existing conventional car.
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Ultimately, this may turn out to be true. My issue is that they don’t seem to be accurately assessing the market and the likelihood of events to occur. I have no issue with 10K units the first year. They have to familiarize themselves with producing Voltec vehicles and stabalize the tech in scale. This is smart and appropriate. The issue is what their plans and commitments are for the technology after the first year of production. This is what concerns me and where I get the feeling they aren’t accurately assessing the situation. The Prius is selling at @200K copies per year and there are another 50K or so other highbrids. The whole world stood up and took notice when Tesla was developing their $100K 2-seat roadster with 200+ miles of range. The Volt itself recieved tremendous attention upon the concept’s introduction, even before GM-Volt.com was born. To huddle behind the antiquated view of “greenies” and “EV fanatics” as the only low volume early adopters they can count on is bunk.
Yes, they will have to ultimately compete on a cost basis to tap into the entirety of the market. Nobody knows how EREVs will be valued by the market but there is more than just conjecture that the “early adopter” segment of the market for this type of vehicle is just a small niche. GM has said it themselves: Electrification of the automobile is inevitable. The handwriting is pretty clearly written on the wall and those that commit to leading this change will have a tremendous advantage if played correctly.
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Right. +1
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Statik, what will be the engine choices for the Cruze?
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Statik,
Perhaps you are a good person to answer this or another familiar with mass automobile production. Wouldn’t there be an advantage to producing the Volt at the same facility as the Cruze? Was it volume that dictated they use a different plant?
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Too soon, my friends… Too soon.
Nothing in the GM Dealerworld system to order, yet.
Unlike some REAL scumbag dealers, I don’t take orders for “air”.
If it’s in the system, then I’ll take your money.
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:30 pm
“4:23
Frank Weber: The battery pack is only 180 kg and by the way the impact on overall vehicle efficiency is fairly limited because you can recuperate your energy while braking. Our pack will be much lighter than the big packs you need in pure electric vehicles. ”
I have made that point before but no one pays attention, conventional vehicles are strongly affected by excess weight, mostly due to the poor torque characteristics that ICE have. Good tires, great torque and brake regen are the benefits of electric cars.
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:42 pm
But it is still just an ASSIST hybrid.
That means limited use of that 15hp, due to only having a single motor available… fewer electricity generating opportunities… and if not liquid cooled, shorter usage opportunities.
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:49 pm
I don’t think it is announced, but Flint is making the 1.4 and 1.4T so you have at least those. It is marketed as ‘regional specific,’ so I don’t know. It is also currently mated internationally with a 112-horsepower 1.6-liter, a 138-hp 1.8-liter, and the new 150-hp 2.0-liter turbodiesel…the latter we will never see.
I believe we are getting the 1.4, 1.4T and the 1.8 (seen the 1.8 as base in a ad)…I find it odd the DI was not added (as per GMI) to the 1.4T at least, I guess to keep the cost down? I don’t think there is anything official from GM yet. I could talk to the Cruze rep for you, and see if she knows yet if it is really burning a hole in you.
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:00 pm
I would think having everything under the same roof would be handy/cost effective. As per volume, Lordstown could probably handle the Cobalt/Cruze and the Volt…not sure about expansion of the ‘voltec platform’ though.
However, the production of the Volt went to Hamtramck, because they had earlier commited it there to the UAW in return for other concessions (namely votes from 16 factories around the country to ratify the VEBA/healthcare deal in 2007)
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:01 pm
It’s on sale now, in Australia, with a 1.8 liter, normally aspirated engine that develops 104KW. For the US, they say there will be a 1.4 normally aspirated engine and there’s reportedly a 1.4 turbo on the way.
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Statik, are you certain the Flint plant will not be building the DI 1.4. I ask because I thought the DI 1.4 is what is going into the Cruze, I find it hard to believe they can get 40+ MPG highway with the sequential port version.
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Your are living in the past. China’s annual auto sales alone have surpassed the NAM sales, and will never be below again. Add India, Korea, Japan, Europe, South America, etc we don’t gulp down nearly the annual percentage we used to and it is shrinking. The US car fleet is mature and will take many years to turn over. Barring another bad recession or depression it is highly unlikely you will ever see $2.00 gal again.
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:14 pm
The Volt will not compete well with the Toyota Prius that is for sure. The Volt’s sales number will be pathetic alongside the Prius. The Prius is so much cheaper and with a proven track record and 50 MPG something the Volt cannot approach. And you absolutely cannot discount Toyota Quality. The Volt will most certainly remain a niche vehicle for many years and its future remains cloudy after the wave of competition begins to overwhelm it. woot. Nothing about the Volt will make it stand out in a crowd of 2012 EVs. Sorry, but reality sucks sometime. GM needs a serious dose right about now. Listen to me now and you can believe me later. bonk.
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Just like a Prius.. only the Volt is a true BEV. The point of the BAS + is to increase mpg by taking some load from the ICE and providing some brake regen. 15hp is not the only measure of that motor, you also have to look at the low end torque it will produce.
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:28 pm
What does that say for their ENVI program? Smoke and mirrors?
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Nothing is certain at this point. I was surprised by that news myself, I had heard the 1.4L T was DI all along…but it was reported as sequential port (no DI) over at GMI. (so grain of salt until we have official word I suppose)
GM has been ratcheting down expectations on the Cruze MPG for awhile, now ‘around 40 MPG on higheay’ so it seems to have credibility. The Euro 1.8L normally aspirated four is now the base…and the 1.4 the option.
They just announced that the ‘XFE’ guys are ‘tweaking’ 1.4 and the six speed to try and get a 44 on the highway. Maybe there will be a ‘optional’ high end DI? All speculation still…whatever the case ends up being (in or out), one thing is for certain now, you are going to be paying a premium for the 1.4L
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:38 pm
They don’t compare at all. One car has a high MPG and the other has a 40 mile freeway EV range and an expected moderate 40-50MPG TBD.
So theoretically if you want a long distance high MPG affordable car, then the Prius is your car. But for those willing to pay the EAT fees [(E)arly (A)dopters (T)ax)] and want to go EV up to freeway speeds and higher and don’t travel long distance then a Volt is a viable option.
To me those are two different types of consumers, especially in the early years of the cars life.
That’s JMHO.
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:55 pm
The apples for apples tests for the Prius and Insight don’t show equivalent mileage which is to be expected based on the differences in the designs.
But the Volt doesn’t have a transmission. I don’t understand what advantage you feel they should try to gain.
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:59 pm
CorvetteGuy – agree 100% – it is too soon to take orders. I have seen some dealers out there asking for $1,000+ deposits – when there is no basis for deposits yet. GM has released no official info, they have released no official distribution plan, and there is absolutely no way that ANY dealer knows for sure that they will be getting any VOLTS in the first year.
We have a list of local customer’s who are interested, and as information comes out, we are keeping them updated. When the time comes, we will offer to take desposits – but only once we have a realistic idea as to when we will see vehicles. There is NOTHING worse than having a dissapointed customer BEFORE they even get their vehicle.
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Let me know.
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:23 pm
I wouldn’t be seen dead in a Toyota.
Or, as a South FL guy, I bet you can appreciate one of my other favorites, stolen from my old friend Jeff Jennings:
“I wouldn’t be seen at the dog races in one of those.”
LJGT!@#$%VWOTR!!
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:32 pm
I haven’t had a lot of respect for the BAS, having felt that it was just a Mickey Mouse bandaid to allow GM to slap a HYBRID badge on the back of a Malibu. The public showed that it was not gullible enough to fall for that one, and the “hybrid” Malibu crashed in flames.
Still I cling to the hope that somehow they will be able to use it on a smaller, lighter car and put up some better fuel economy numbers. Even if it had to be a Spark, if GM could get equal or better numbers than a Prius, it would give them some useful bragging rights. Or maybe the Cruze, which shoud be usefully lighter than a Malibu. Look at what they did with the Cobalt xfe. If they could layer the BAS onto that, they might have something. And the Cruze should be incrementally better than the Cobalt, and have a 6 speed automatic.
Maybe I’m just dreaming, but hope springs eternal.
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:35 pm
You would kind of have to think so, wouldn’t you?
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Sorry to repeat myself, but I really take issue with GM’s spin tactic of bragging about “highway” mileage. The real world numbers are city and combined, and you never see them in GM’s advertising. Very misleading and intellectually dishonest, IMHO.
I was just about to pat myself on the back for being so positive today, but seeing the “highway” mileage quoted once too often knocked it right out of me.
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Well you are doing a lot more than our local dealers, who just roll their eyes and shake their heads at the mention of the word “Volt”. Which means that you guys are going to sell some while they are still trying to figure out what’s going on, it there’s any justice in this world.
Puts me in the mind of Marvin Gaye: “What’s going on?”
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:54 pm
The ASSIST hybrid is nothing like Prius. FULL hybrids have a second motor and a device that allows independent component operation. It is very different.
Of course, Volt isn’t really a BEV either. Having 2 power source inputs, it is actually more of a hybrid than anything else currently offered.
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Spot on, IMO.
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:10 pm
That’s BS and you know it. The Volt is a BEV+. It has every single thing a BEV has plus a generator, pure and simple. Pull the generator out or don’t put gas in and it will work just fine but with only with a 16kWh battery.
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:24 pm
How about a long row of Volts at the dealership, in your choice of colors and options, with a red tag hanging from the rear view mirror.
Just another markiting stratagy….
/let me pinch myself, i need to wake up.
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:35 pm
The Volt’s a Hybrid. To be more technical it’s a Series Hybrid” but “Hybrid” nun the less. Two sources of energy, battery (stored) energy and ICE Genset (Petrol) energy.
The “Plus a generator” makes it a hyrid. A BEV has one source of energy, the batt pack.
If you don’t put gas in the Volt like you say or pull the genset out, it’s the worst BEV ever.
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Word of mouth. Early adopters will love the first round of cars and sing their praises. A little like what happened with the Pruis.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Hope GM gets Volt right & have no quality problems ..But I have no faith in GM ..They have managed to screw so much over the years ..& those who run the GM now better shape up & get things right but I doubt it …Only time will tell..
Meanwhile I will wait for Leaf and use it to commute to office & use my ICE car for long distance travelling ..I own a 13 years old Civic still chugging along and require very little maintenance ..
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:54 pm
Good for you!
Those who can maintain the finances for two cars, insurance, maintenance, registration, etc…, a BEV is perfectly fine.
But those who only have a need for one car the Volt will work fine. My point is, buy what you will need that works for YOU.
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:57 pm
It takes an entire year before serious attention can be drawn, since consumers want to know about performance aspects for all seasons of use.
If GM won’t be offering Volt in all regions until the second year, we’re talking 2012 before any sales momentum even begins… only to be impaired by the chicken/egg – price/production dilemma.
GM cannot afford that long of a delay. Of course, Volt could be branded as a “before it’s time” product too. Passive promotion is not enough.
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Lyle : Can you please get answers for the below :
I asked a question :
and got the answer ( i put my questions inline with [unni] :
[unni]
Question : So what happens in charge sustainance mode , how battery is kept at 30% when its below 30%, second what happens i go on a long drive and how much performace difference will occur.
[unni] It will be great if we can get some more explanation,Insights on those technologies Volt uses which may not work in a dynamic use in a conventional vehicle application.
[unni] What is meant by unnecessary efficiencies ? does this means that volt is trying to get a lower efficiency by purpose to have close simulation of conventional vehicle.
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:15 pm
If Volt can only get 30-35 mpg on extended trips (as per Lutz) then Prius is the car to shoot for …It costs 1/2 price of Volt …Price will be a big factor how well Volt does in the market ..even in daily commute if one to use only electric mode ..recharging infrastruture will need to be in place ..certainly household 120v charge will not be practical …So the Q is how Volt will compete in the market place ?
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Man, sure hope so. +1
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:17 pm
2015? 2020? I look to the day. +1
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:23 pm
What will they say?
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Got down to my local Chevy dealer today. I give them credit for not diving on me as I walked in.
Looked at the Malibu and a few Corvettes before a pleasant salesman asked if I needed assistance. I was right up front and told him that my plan is to buy next year. And that I would like to test drive a GM product to get a feel for the quality. Without hesitation he handed me the keys to a nice white Malibu 4 cylinder. Leather seats with a decent stereo and paddle shifters on the wheel. He told me to go ahead and take it out and to park in the same place when I returned. The test drive went well.
Upon returning I asked about the Cruze, the Volt, and plug in trucks. He stated, “We’re getting a lot of hits on the Volt”. He went on to say that he doesn’t have information at this time. I gave him my contact information and asked that I be contacted with any updated information on the Cruze or Volt. He agreed and we shook hands on it.
All in all, a very good test drive experience.
=D~
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:40 pm
There’s also the factor that people really crave those things they can’t easily get. The Volt’s initial scarcity will (I think) BE the chicken, who will pop out a substantial basket of eggs in 2011 and beyond.
I’ve said all along that GM has to get the Volt right out of the gate and that hasn’t changed, but I don”t see a viable model for release than they have already come up with. If it’s as spot on as I believe it will be, they won’t be able to keep them in stock.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:42 pm
If you don’t know the tune by now, there’s no sense in my singing it again.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
November 2nd, 2009 at 9:00 pm
The whole point of a song is for others to hear.
I know the song, and the dance. 9 years now.
November 2nd, 2009 at 9:36 pm
GM back in its heyday could really design fast.. in the early 70s they did the Vega in 2 years.. that was an amazing achievement, of course they did not do any testing.
November 2nd, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I could give 2 poops about the semantics. Some might say it it has 3 sources of energy after I’ve had some dried fruit. The facts of the matter are as I stated. It is every bit a functional BEV with a 16kwh battery. If you take a Tesla Roadster and strap on a 5kw generator does that make it some completely different animal? Does that make it a hybrid more like a Prius that the BEV you started with? Of course not. That’s BS. You know, John1234 knows, and anybody with a smiggin of logic knows it.
The switch to E-motor only propulsion IS a big deal. That is what is most important here and that’s what BEV’s and whatever the F you want call a BEV’s w/ a generator have.
November 2nd, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Its very hard to sell a hybrid option on a standard low cost ICE vehicle.. but I am hopeful the new stronger BAS + will allow substantial mpg improvements and still keep it to around a $2k option.. GM still can make the ICE an atkinson cycle when its paired with the BAS +.
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Then you’re basically saying the Volt is an EV that burns petroleum?
That makes no friggin sense. A polluting EV?
Any smart person knows that if your burning petroleum you’re NOT an Pure or 100% Electric vehicle.
You can call it whatever you want but when that ICE kicks in, your EV is now burning OPEC juice and a true EV does NOT do that.
November 3rd, 2009 at 12:58 am
Is anyone else worried about Lithium availability long-term??? I’m just not sure it’s going to be that easy, or that cost can come down because of a demanding market. I do love reading about new energy storage research!
As far as the “regular hybrids” are concerned, I wonder if GM has done any research on the compressed air systems. Integrating with a modified ICE, this could be a really cheap way of gaining just as much efficiency as a hybrid-electric drive, but be more scalable with materials.
November 3rd, 2009 at 8:23 am
What this car stands for is very important to my wife and I. We don’t want our two month old son being shipped to a foreign country to fight for energy reserves a few decades from now(that is a real plausible scenario). I swear to G*d we will get off oil! It’s not only the cost of the vehicle. It is what it stands for.
Respectfully,
Mike
PS – I only wish I could buy this vehicle from Ford. I believe the people are GM are working very hard and are good Americans. If it makes any sense I would just feel better to help Ford along. I like rooting for the underdog and I would not like for them to have to ask govt for money.
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:30 am
Exactly, but it is a matter of degree capt.. it will pollute very little.. and if you run it on E85 and dont drive past 40 miles much even less.. YOU will pollute more by farting than the Volt will.
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:51 am
Nope, the words are very close but the meaning is very different. You could accurate paraphrase to “the Volt is an EV that CAN burn petroleum”. It can burn petroleum if you want to continue driving after the AER is depleted or it will effectively burn none if you don’t.
The problem that I had with John1234’s semantics is that he was trying to draw a big distinction between a mild hybrid and a strong hybrid. Who cares beyond the differential in gas consumption? They both require to gas engine and electric motors to be fully functional. He then stated the Volt is more like a hybrid than a BEV in a strange twist of logic.
It is a BEV at heart with a range extender added. A 16KWh fully function, highway capable 5-door BEV sedan is not nearly as anemic as you portray. The hybrids, as the public understands them, took a step in the direction of reducing consumption. EREV’s take a leap and they provide the platform to easily eliminate the remaining gasoline consumption with minor improvements (bigger battery EREV), subtraction + improvement (remove range extender components + bigger battery), and alternative fuels (replace with 100% bio-fuel energy source).
November 3rd, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Consumers care, and they have clearly voiced their opinion. That’s why the FULL hybrids have dwarfed the sales of ASSIST hybrids.
Attempts to combine ASSIST and FULL hybrids together (by calling them both parallel) is disingenous, telling people what to think rather than just presenting facts to let them decide for themselves. It’s smug too, which paints a bad image for Volt supporters.
November 3rd, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Lastly, let’s not forget that an ASSIST hybrid can’t really be upgraded with a plug but a FULL hybrid can. The motor sizes are dramatically different and only the latter is setup for continuous operation (has active cooling).
November 3rd, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Yeah, can anyone say “Fisker”, LOL?
November 3rd, 2009 at 6:30 pm
I agree. That’s kind of what i was trying to say. I’m from Missouri when it comes to BAS but, if they can make it do what you are hoping for, I will be the first to stand up and eat my words.
November 3rd, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Not only are consumption(demand) and speculation driving up gas prices but so is the falling dollar. I wonder how much of the Volt is made over seas and if the falling dollar will significantly increase it’s price. I sure hope not, I can hardly wait for my VOLT!
November 4th, 2009 at 9:06 am
It has been true for decades that heavily taxing gasoline would have benefited the United States (that does not mean ‘higher’ taxes — higher one place, lower another). This would have led to smaller vehicles, better gas mileage, improved trade balance and less dependence on the petro states.
This would also be a huge incentive to electric vehicles like the Volt. However, we’ve never been able to do it, which is why I think the Volt’s best markets will be outside the US. Europe is the best, which is why I think it is fantastic that GM is holding on to Opel/Vauxhall. The car would be great in Japan as well, but that is not an open market (it seems to me).
November 4th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
[...] The Innovative New Chevy Volt May Not Hit market Filed under: Uncategorized — p-hred @ 6:24 pm http://gm-volt.com/2009/11/01/gms-expectations-for-the-chevy-volt/ [...]
November 5th, 2009 at 9:39 am
However “dirty” the ICE is, its a well understood method. But complex I do not think so, the corvette SBC is just a beautifully simple engine. it doesn’t have all that VVT VTEC iTEC and other BS its just simple and for that it was voted a best engine.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
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