AND 
Bob Lutz Implies Chevy Volt Will Get Between 40 and 50 MPG in Charge-Sustaining Mode
GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz was interviewed on Fox Business News. The entire interview can be watched at the bottom of the post.
Just as vehicle line director Tony Posawatz was asked by Fox the other day, Lutz was also asked what the Chevy Volt’s MPG will be when it is running in charge-sustaining mode, after the first 40 all-electric miles have been driven.
As someone who has followed this Volt story since day one, along with many of you, I have found that Bob Lutz cannot help but be honest. GM has never officially acknowledged this number though at the time of the initial concept revelation they mentioned 50 MPG was the goal. However, in those days the generator was to be a 1 L turbocharged 3 Cylinder, and not the normally aspired 1.4L 4 cylinder it turned out to be.
When now asked what the Volt’s fuel economy would be in charge sustaining mode, Lutz replied as follows:
We haven’t published it and it’s not finalized. Once it’s running on pure gasoline it will be like a highly economical vehicle in that size class. It will be exceptionally good mileage but it obviously won’t be comparable to what it is when it runs on electric.
The vehicle is conceived primarily for urban or suburban use. It’s for that 80 percent of Americans who travel 40 miles or less per day; they will never use a drop of fuel. If you have a 60 mile commute, you’ll have 40 miles purely electric, the remainder of the mileage on very good gasoline mileage, and your average fuel economy will be somewhere between 120 and 150 miles per gallon.
So let’s do the math.
On a 60 mile commute, the first 40 miles are electric and the next 20 are on gasoline. At an average of 120 mpg, that would mean 0.5 gallons are used in those 20 miles (40 mpg). At 150 mpg, it would mean 0.4 gallons are used in those 20 miles (50 mpg).
Thus the Volt will average between 40 and 50 mpg in charge sustaining mode. Good enough for me, how about you?
Thanks to Philerup for the tip!
196 Responses to “Bob Lutz Implies Chevy Volt Will Get Between 40 and 50 MPG in Charge-Sustaining Mode”
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:18 am
Good morning, Lyle.
This is great if it is true. 40-50 MPG is awesome.
It will be less with E85, but we can’t find that here in CT.
I like Bob Lutz. He does seem to blurt things out.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:23 am
great thing the volt will be the best vehicle in 2010. lets hope the volt will release at a time when oil prices at $100 a barrel. the sales of the volt will skyrocket when production increases.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:36 am
There will be no sales anxiety or range anxiety with the Volt. Will be fun to watch the winner of the “name the hue” contest getting a test drive (in CS mode?).
=D~
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:37 am
What is up with these ads that take up the whole screen when you mouse over them!?! Please Lyle, draw the line somewhere.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:48 am
Great PR for GM. Sticks with their theme of re-framing the MPG rating. When people heard 230 mpg, they were thinking “that’s a bs made-up number”. Now they are hearing 120-150 mpg, and probably thinking “sounds too good to be true, but maybe…”. If people take enough time to think about these numbers, they will realize it depends on your driving pattern, as Lutz points out. Then the next thought is “Hmmm, I could get an even higher mpg rating if I drove all electric most of the time…”. Yes, the Volt will change how people think about driving. Bring it on.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:52 am
That’s good news but I’m wondering how much of the 40-50mpg depends on regenerative braking and in what braking mode the car is being run in (aggressive?)
Maybe that’s the low end / high end of 40-50mpg?
- low end 40mpg would be “driving down the highway in CS, not using the brake, just cruising on a family trip.
- high end 50mpg would be “driving around town in CS mode, stopping at lights, stop and go traffic with aggressive regenerative braking to add around +10mpg worth of recaptured energy.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:54 am
The ads irk me too but I can’t imagine the amount of upkeep a site like this must take so anything Lyle needs to do in order to help keep it up and running is fine with me. (just as long as I don’t start getting asked to punch a monkey or anything).
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:58 am
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:01 am
IQ delineator, enjoy your purchase
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:05 am
We still don’t know the mileage for sure, and Bob has been known to exaggerate numbers before.
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:11 am
Agree!!! It is irritating!
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:11 am
If Lyle’s calculations are correct and Bob’s assertions are correct, that is pretty good efficiency in charge sustaining mode. I would like to see the efficiency numbers made official, but at this stage, and just speculating, they look pretty good.
Well done GM.
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:16 am
The Volt is a winner, however you want to look at it. Most will never use a single drop in their daily commutes, and when you do need to make long trips, you get excellent gas mileage while driving a car that has good acceleration.
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:39 am
As someone who has followed this Volt story since day one, along with many of you, I have found find Bob Lutz cannot help but be honest.
———–
I love Maximum Bob. In the past his spirit has been right and I think he always tells the truth as he sees it. Even so, Maximum Bob’s numbers have often been far wide of the mark. He’s a marketing guy, not an analyst or engineer, so he tells you the spirit of things not their numerical values.
So I take Maximum Bob’s comment as meaning the Volt customer with a 60 mile commute will be pleased with the low gas usage, but I think it is too much of a stretch to convert that comment into specific number values. Maximum Bob is just not that kind of guy.
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:42 am
These ads are placed there to test your skillfulness with the mouse so as to verify your ability to drive an electric car
Please do not complain. They are paying for the web site we all enjoy.
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:43 am
Gee, 45 MPG in charge sustaining mode, where have I heard that before.
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:56 am
Baby Lutz… you just don’t get it…. but that’s fine – enjoy your Prius – you will leave one more VOLT available for one lucky person!
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:01 am
Those are great numbers and they will only get better in time.
Go GM Go!! It took many years for you to wake-up, but now you are on the right track. Today, the whole world is looking at you so please do not falter.
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:29 am
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:38 am
A Prius???, What a total Chick Magnet Car. Dude at least buy a Fusion. In my mind thats Volts real competition. The Fusion is around 41 mpg and from what I’ve read little or no sacrifice in performance and quality. As an American I really want those to become the 2 dominant cars in this class. And so far it’s looking good for both.
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:40 am
This sounds good. Pray for at least similar results in real life or measures on official EPA cycles, but there’s still months before theses…
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:41 am
I had the same thought. The mpg claim would mean a lot more at this stage if it was coming from Frank Weber (haven’t seen much of him, lately).
And of course you wonder why Lutz can’t just come out and say “somewhere around 40 to 50 mpg”, I mean, it was completely clear what the interviewer was asking. If you’re going to give the answer in a simple math problem, then why not just give the answer flat out?
I’ll give Bob the benefit of the doubt . . . for now. But I’m going to need independent verification of city/hwy combined 2008 epa style testing to totally concede my 30 to 35 mpg prediction.
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:41 am
“in the eyes of the people that no better….” Well then, you, Larry McFall, must KNOW something that the rest of us don’t … or more likely, we KNOW something that you don’t – the VOLT will blow away people’s current perceptions about GM as it will fundamentally raise the bar on what kind of fuel economy our everyday transportation can achieve.
In future generation VOLT’s and other vehicles with voltec technology, it is entirely likely that GM will use a new ‘generator only’ engine design. But for the sake of speed and complexity, I believe they have wisely stayed with an existing engine design.
Go GM. Go VOLT. Bring it on!!!
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:41 am
It makes me wonder why GM rarely talks about charging at work? How many charge cycles is the battery really good for.
When the example is given of a 60 mile commute, the ideal is to charge at work whenever you can. That way you can drive to work and back with air conditioner blasting and not worry about switching to gas.
The ICE is for longer trips other than going to work. But if you go to work every day it is worth getting your workplace to make daytime charging available. This is what we need to do as a country to have a real impact on reducing oil imports.
I realize all work places aren’t going to be ready for this by 2011, but I really feel that this is something that needs to be done.
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:44 am
When gas prices are high you won’t find a Prius for that price. The dealers stick on all the diddley-boom dealer installed options they can get away with to inflate the price.
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:44 am
I think maybe we are reading to much into this. It would be best to wait for the real number.
I see volts everywere, they are testing them many different ways. I have seen them in my parking lot pulling in and out going around the block with the lights off, then doing it all again with the lights on.
Some are now taking them home and will start to get a better idea of how they preform in the real world.
I do not work for GM in anyway but I have seen the Volt up close, inside and under the hood, I have talked to people who are driving them and I don’t think they know the number we are all looking for yet.
Personaly I would be happy with anything over 30MPG. I think the first 40 miles is far more important.
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:45 am
========================
I found this in Business Week. I think Mr. Lutz has earned some respect….
BACKGROUND:
Robert A. Lutz, Bob serves as Vice Chairman and Senior Advisor at General Motors Company. Mr. Lutz served as Vice Chairman and Senior Advisor of Motors Liquidation Company (formerly known as General Motors Corporation) from April 1, 2009 to July 2009 and served as its Acting Chief Executive Officer of GM Europe. Mr. Lutz is a Co-Founder of Cunningham Motor Company and is assisting in product development. He served as Vice Chairman of Global Product Development of General … Motors Corporation from March 2008 to April 1, 2009. Mr. Lutz served as Vice Chairman of Product Development of General Motors Corp. North America since September 1, 2001, Chairman of the Board since November 13, 2001 and Interim President of GM Europe from March 1, 2004 to June 1, 2004. Prior to rejoining General Motors, he served as Chairman of Exide Technologies from December 1998 to May 17, 2002 and also served as its Chief Executive Officer from December 1998 to September 1, 2001. He served as President of Exide from December 1998 to May 2000. He joined Exide after a distinguished career with Chrysler LLC from June 3, 1986 to 1998, where he served on various positions. He led all of Chrysler’s automotive activities, including sales, marketing, product development, manufacturing, and procurement and supply. He served as an Executive Vice President of Chrysler Motors Corporation from June 3, 1986 to 1991. He served as President of Chrysler Motors since 1988 and Chrysler Corporation since February 1991, responsible for it’s car and truck operations worldwide. He also served as Chief Operating Officer and a Member of the Office of the Chairman of Chrysler from January 1, 1993 to January 1, 1997. Before Chrysler, Mr. Lutz spent 12 years at Ford Motor Company, where he lastly served as Executive Vice President of Truck Operations. He also served as Chairman of Ford of Europe and as Executive Vice President of its International Operations. Mr. Lutz began his automotive career in September 1963 at GM, where he held a variety of senior positions in Europe and served there until December 1971. For the next three years, he served as Executive Vice President of Sales at BMW in Munich and as a Member of its Board of Management. Mr. Lutz held several senior executive positions with BMW and its subsidiaries from 1974 to 1986. He also served as a Jet-attack Aviator in the United States Marine Corps from 1954 to 1965 and attained the rank of Captain. He served as the Chairman of General Motors North America. He served as Vice Chairman of Chrysler LLC from 1997 to July 1998. He serves as a Director of ASCOM Holdings, A.G. He serves as a Director of General Motors North America. He served as a Director of General Motors Corporation since April 1, 2009. He served as a Director of Chrysler LLC since June 12, 1986, Exide Technologies from December 1998 to May 5, 2004 and Ford Motor Company from 1982 to 1986. He served as a Director of Silicon Graphics Inc., and Northrop Grumman Corporation. He serves as Chairman of New Common School Foundation and serves as a Trustee of the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute. He also serves as Vice Chairman of the Board of Trustees for the Marine Military Academy in Harlingen, Texas. He serves as a Director of the National Association of Manufacturers and a is a Member of the Board of Trustees for the United States Marine Corps University Foundation. He is a Member of the American Highway Users Alliance, the Advisory Board for the University of California, Berkeley, School of Business Administration and the National Advisory Council of the University of Michigan School of Engineering. His 12 years with Chrysler is chronicled in his 1998 book, Guts: The Seven Laws of Business That Made Chrysler the World’s Hottest Car Company. The SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) Foundation named him the recipient of its 2006 Manufacturing Leadership Award. Mr. Lutz holds a Bachelor’s degree in Production Management from the University of California-Berkeley in 1961, where he earned distinction as a Phi Beta Kappa. Mr. Lutz received a Master’s degree in Business Administration with highest honors from the University of California-Berkeley in 1962. He received an Honorary degree of Doctor of Management from Kettering University on June 21, 2003, and an Honorary Doctorate of Law from Boston University in 1985.
But on the other hand, he was not wearing the pink tie, so how can I believe him this time????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:52 am
The Prius is a great car.
The Volt will cost more, but fuel savings should make that less of a factor. For example, at $4/gal, $0.10/kwh, 18K miles/year (12K electric), the Volt will save around $700/year over the Prius in fuel costs. If the car lasts 10 years, total fuel costs for the Volt would be around $7000 less.
Bottom line: Total cost of ownership for the Volt (after tax credits) is around $3000 more than the Prius, with the above assumptions.
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:54 am
I think from a marketing standpoint Maximum Bob wanted to convey something that the lay person would hear as “eye popping.”
After all there are still a great deal of people who don’t know about the Volt especially the specific technology
To us here at GM-VOLT.com we know their is no difference in saying 40 to 50 mpg in CS mode.
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:59 am
When Road and Track, Car and Driver, and Motor Trend publish their testing figures, and they all agree, then we will know for sure. That’s what I’m waiting for.
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October 27th, 2009 at 9:00 am
What ever it is today, is just the beginning.>>
DOE -ARPA
Michigan State University
$2,540,631
East Lansing, MI
Vehicle Technologies
The wave disc engine, a gas-fueled electric generator that is five times more efficient than traditional engines for electricity production, as well as lighter and cheaper to manufacture. Could replace current generators for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles.
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October 27th, 2009 at 9:06 am
If plug-ins get popular and everyone starts charging at work, then we will have a lot of blackouts.
If everyone only charges at night, our current grid can support tens of millions of plug-ins.
If plug-ins get really popular, but only the people with long commutes plug-in at work, this would probably be OK. In other words, if the majority of plug-in owners only charge at night, this should work.
And that’s another strong point for the Volt. PHEVs with a low electric range pretty much require you to plug-in during the day, but most Volt users will be just fine only charging at night.
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October 27th, 2009 at 9:26 am
GM doesn’t talk about charging at work, but they talk all the time about “charging infrastructure.” In fact, they talk about it too much, IMHO.
I suspect that the reason they’re not mentioning the possibility is they don’t want people who can’t charge at work to lose interest.
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October 27th, 2009 at 9:32 am
October 27th, 2009 at 9:39 am
I REALLY hope that it gets 40-50mpg. But his first statement that it will get mileage comparable to a car in its size in CSM (charge sustaining mode) and the calculation that Lyle posted based on Lutz’s second statement are not in line with each other.
So which is it? I say about 35mpg.
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October 27th, 2009 at 9:40 am
The numbers I’ve seen all over is that over 30% of the energy of an ICE is spent on transmission. Shouldn’t there be at least a 25% gain over the best economical car in the class?
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October 27th, 2009 at 9:49 am
New image in comment feature
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Pure CS mode mileage is not statistically significant as Lutz’s market-eze is trying to say (without actually saying it).
You cannot ignore the 40 miles of zero gas usage to calculate the MPG. It is entirely correct for Lutz to say ‘if you go 60 miles, your mileage will be about x, but, your mileage will vary’. It would be irresponsible to say ‘in CS mode the mileage is 40mpg’ since nobody will drive exclusively in CS mode. It would be really dumb to not plug the thing in at least once a day.
With my 42 mile commute, my mileage (even if CS mode is only 30mpg) would be > 600 MPG! A plug-in Prius would get about 70mpg on the same commute since it only goes 12.5 miles on a charge.
In other words, for me, a Pruis uses 9 times more fuel than a Volt. Factor in the difference in ethanol between regular gas (E10 or 90% gasoline) and E85 (15% gasoline) and the Pruis uses FIFTY (50) TIMES more foreign oil than Volt!
Naturally, as the ‘commute’ goes past 300 miles, then, the Prius may catch up some. However, people that commute 300 miles daily are in the extreme minority. Even if you do occational trips on the open highway, the Volt’s accumulated electric-only miles will still make the Volt a better car to kill foreign oil.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:11 am
I’m loving it. In the absence of real data, Lyle’s calculations are the best available right now. If the Volt truly gets this mileage, it will be a huge motivator for people to consider buying one.
Some people buy American products on principle alone. Additional fuel efficiency will only “fuel” the fire.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:12 am
MPG of the Volt after the battery is depleted to the charge that starts the charge sustaining mode would be averaging the ICE drive power fuel usage and the regeneration recapture of energy. The Prius ICE normally will shut off the ICE at traffic light stop. Sound like the Volt ICE will continue to run as charge requirements dictate. But, it will still average power over the overall trip. I would think that it would be very close in MPG to the Prius in this configuration considering the regeneration charging is in affect same as the Prius.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Cool new image feature, Lyle # 36.
You just keep making this site better and better.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:18 am
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Lyle, how are you going to keep out porn or other inappropriate stuff?
I just pasted the Chevy Volt as a test.
It could have been a porn picture.
The way some idiots are around here (Comcastic comes to mind)
porn or something else is very possible.
–Rashiid.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:26 am
No problem there, IMHO. It was what, $82/barrel yesterday? Soon enough we will be looking back fondly on the days of $100/barrel.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:30 am
I don’t get them. I guess my computer’s too old and slow or something, LOL.
Anyway, I agree with xed at #7.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:36 am
If you could make a generator five times more efficient than the Volt’s that would imply 200 to 250 MPG in ICE mode. With mileage like that you might as well get rid of the large battery and just sip gas all the time. Diminishing returns of really high mileage would make a plug in unnecessary. But is a gas generator really so inefficient that you can improve it by a factor of 5? I’ll believe that when I see it.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:40 am
Yeah or, worse yet, a picture of a BYD.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Ares I-X launch is canceled.
Offtopic, but so sad
At least, here I see some good news today
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I have decided to try not to worry too much about this going forward. It’s going to be what it’s going to be. Time enough to decide what impact it has on our buying decisions when the real number appears.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Good point, Noel.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:51 am
BTW, did anyone see the WSJ story this morning reporting that Fiat/Chrysler is going to euthanize Dodge? RIP, along with so many other honored American car brands.
We have had 2 Fiats. They were really fun little cars if you could keep up with the constant battle to keep all of the parts bolted on. The current 500 is as cute as a button but, if they think that I am going to buy one which is assembled in Mexico, they are very much mistaken.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:53 am
I was really hoping for at least 50MPG or above. My commute is about 80 miles round trip. I just don’t think I can justify the added cost for a Volt, unless that gen mode number is high.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:54 am
If the daily commute is less than 15 miles or greater than 75 miles the Prius will burn less gas. If the daily commute is between 15 and 65, then the Volt will burn less gas.
Lets take a 40 mile daily commute, assuming the AER of the Prius is 15 miles and the Volt is 30 miles. Each day the Prius would burn (40-15=25)/50=.5 gallons and the Volt would burn (40-30=10)/45=.2 gallons. Therefore, if a person drove 14,000 miles per year, then over the year the Prius would burn 175 gallons, whereas the Volt would burn 70 gallons. 105 gallons @ 5.00 per gallon would mean the Volt would save about 500 per year or in ten years about $5000. So if the Prius is at least $5000 cheaper to buy, guess who wins.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:02 am
+1
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:06 am
…and I raise you one
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:07 am
The best part is that if you used EEscam caps with the wave disc generator, you would end up with MORE gas in the tank at the end of the trip as before you started.. its magical I tell you.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Dave G
With all due respect, most people are far underestimating the savings that electric cars will bring.
- Over 10 years of ownership gas will be well north of $4 a gallon, and could easily be north of $10 a gallon
- Electricity should not be 10c a Kwh, everyone should be able to get a night rate of $.05 or they need to talk to their congressman.
Above are the direct savings. Don’t forget the indirect savings which we all benefit from
- Every gallon of gas we don’t buy is redirecting money that would leave our country into our own economy, thus benefitting all of us.
- We won’t have to protect the middle east oil lanes any longer
- The more we keep demand down for oil, the more we’ll help keep oil costs from going even higher which will help keep the cost of the goods down.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Ok. Now we are comparing the actual cars instead of impact on foreign oil imports. In an actual car comparison, there is no way I am buying a butt-ugly Prius over a Volt.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:09 am
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:13 am
The US companies (GM, Ford, and Chrysler) rely too much, IMHO, on their being American companies to get out the American patriotic buyers. And, yes, lot of people, who don’t know any better, will buy their cars assuming they’re made in America.
But, personally, I wonder how much their moving manufacting to mexico, and sourcing parts from Asia has cost the “big three” in terms of US market share. I met someone recently who was furious when she learned that her Aveo was made in South Korea, and swore she’d never buy another GM car. She’s now looking at a US assembled Honda. I tried to explain to her about engineering and corporate jobs. But the Aveo was designed in South Korea, so that’s not really an effective argument.
At what point are we better off buying a Honda or Toyota than a Chevy or Ford? Personally, I think the balance already shifted for Chrysler. I just hope GM and Ford don’t follow suit.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Heck, I can’t help myself:
Someday…it will be mine.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:19 am
It sure would be nice if the Volt could match or exceed the 48 mpg that the Toyota Prius gets. It would be great for advertising and PR to say that “the Volt gets BETTER MPG than the Prius no matter how far you drive … from the 40 mile barrier til the gas tank is empty at 300 miles” or whatever.
Every little marketing advantage you can get is important in today’s super competitive auto market. If the Volt gets excellent reviews for quality and reliability from the auto magazines and reviewers like Consumer Reports and JD Power, it’s going to be a very compelling car indeed … even if it’s a few thousand more than the Prius and the rest of the competition.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Best feature. Ever.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:20 am
At some point, you have to consider this a hijack:
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Lyle, can we get a poll on gm-volt people’s commute distance?
If you are driving < 20 per day, it's probably better to have BEV. Greater than 75 miles is not really a 'commute' it's a trip.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:23 am
What is this? The Lutz photo gallery? Lol. Y’all make me laugh every day (in a good way).
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:23 am
“It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds…”
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:25 am
…getting old now
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:27 am
…getting old now
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:28 am
AHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!
I think about that movie everytime someone mentions the ICE will be made in Austria.
Captain Von Trapp is da MAN!
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:29 am
It’s not ‘cancelled’, its scrubbed because of weather.
“NASA officials have announced that it will attempt to launch the rocket tomorrow, however there is a chance of some isolated showers.”
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Can your super cool VW TDI go the first 40 miles without using any diesel fuel? Me thinks you are missing the point!
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Bob Lutz implies Chevy Volt will get 40-50mpg in charge-sustaining mode.
Sure… he also said it would be $25K. The man is a hero with prognostication!
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Diesel fuel is different than gasoline: diesel is basically C14H30, and gasoline is C9H20. Diesel has longer hydrocarbon chains, and 17.6% more energy per gallon (147,000 BTU vs 125,000 BTU).
A diesel car that got 50 mpg is equivalent, energy wise, to a gasoline car that got 41.2 mpg
Also, your 2002 TDI has only 90 hp and 155 ft-lbs torque. The Volt has 150 hp and 273 ft-lbs torque. Your TDI is rated 42 mpg city, 49 mpg highway. There will be different mpg for the Volt in city, vs highway, in Charge Sustaining mode as well. The Volt is also a bigger car.
http://www.greencarreports.com/specifications/volkswagen_jetta-sedan_2002_4dr-sdn-gl-tdi-manual
Of course, the main point is that you can’t plug in your Volkswagen overnight and drive 40 miles on outlet electricity the next day…
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:31 am
So I can post pictures now?!?!?!?
YEEEEEHAWWW!!!!
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Well if everyone is showing pictures of Bob Lutz, you might as well show the one he would probably like people to see.
Bob Lutz … the swashbuckling former U.S. Marine fighter pilot with his Aero Vodochody L-39, an advanced Czechoslovakian jet fighter trainer. He’d probably get himself if an F-16 if the government would let him.
http://www.airportjournals.com/Photos/0505/X/0505007_3.jpg
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Are there any pink ties in them?
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Nevermind, statik killed the html tagging of “src” for us but not him.
punk
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Actually the functionality is build straight in…click and acopy and paste.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:38 am
No its there…just below the ’submit comment’ button.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:42 am
fukit, too much work.
I’m lazy.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:43 am
I got rid of mine. No flashy stuff. I can’t tell you how to do it because i’m a jerk.
Besides, just like many free sites, you have to make some kinf of $$$ to pay for the URL and web hosting as well as data shtuff…..
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:44 am
It is not prominent…you just have to hunt for it a bit.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Ray Lahood, the current Secretary of Transportation and a former republican congressman just referred to the Volt by name as “the wave of the future” at today’s senate climate bill hearings, I would say that is a pretty good plug (pun absolutely intended) for electric cars. He also mentioned that he recently drove it while in Michigan.
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October 27th, 2009 at 11:59 am
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
First off, Bob Lutz is the right man at the toughest time for GM. Slowly, GM is regaining its marketing stride. Just look at the latest really neat GM ads like Chevy & GMC. One auto-market forecaster has GM recapturing a 30% share. Its also patently clear what goes on with VOLT will at some point propagate through the entire line. So being mindful of that fact…this interview is, really, the very first credible input anywhere regarding VOLT MPG performance. I just don’t know why GM needs to be so secretive. Maybe that’s changing.
Lyle’s figures are missing a charging factor in applying Bob Lutz’s tantalizing revelations to a MPG number. I must say however, given the agony this site has shown over a less than 40 mpg in ER, even a 50 figure looks wonderful.
Its no more Mr. Nice Guy for VOLT. Drop in a 25 galoon tank – do another Penna. 7 car (was it 9?) like test run. This time make it coast-to-coast. Show a VOLT can achieve an ER 1000 mile range no sweat. Then finally VOLT will be educating the marketplace of a distinct advantage over hybrids.
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Man, I bet you could show this thread with the Lutz photos to prisoners at Gitmo or Baghram and get them to talk faster than blasting AC/DC records at them 24/7.
Please, please, no more! I’ll buy the Hyundai, or whatever you say. Just no more Lutz!!!
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
[quote]It’s not ‘cancelled’, its scrubbed because of weather.
“NASA officials have announced that it will attempt to launch the rocket tomorrow, however there is a chance of some isolated showers.”
[/quote]
I know.
It is canceled today.
I hope it will be launched tomorrow
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Statik,
Welcome back, my friend.
Good humor with those photos.
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
#59 LauraM:
Alas, too true. I’ve told the story here before about buying a Silverado, and not realizing until I got it home that it was assembled in Mexico. Well fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. You can bet that I study the U.S. content sticker like a hawk now.
Your point about the engineering and administrative jobs is still prefectly valid, however. Plus keeping the profits, if any, at home is a huge plus as well. One just has to be an informed consumer. That’s why I’m so relieved that the Volt, Cruze, and evidently the Spark, are going to be built in the USA.
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Wow, a serious comment! And good news at that. And no photo of Lutz. +1
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Don’t fret…just due to weather…tomorrow will be better and Thursday even better than tomorrow.
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Well I just respectfully disagree. The litany of failed products developed under Lutz is much too long to repeat here. Did you happen to see the story on allcarselectric.com yesterday about the Pontiac Solstice/SaturnSky plant being sold to Fisker? With a taxpayer loan, BTW.
To have someone who is what, 76 years old(?), making product decisions for stuff to sell to present generations is self destructive. Go on down to the Chevy dealer and look at the present product line. See anything you want to buy? Then drive around LA and check out the Priuses, Fits, and Kia Souls (LOL) selling like hot cakes.
There is a reason why GM went bankrupt, and Bob Lutz gets plenty of credit for it. They NEED to have him step aside and bring in some 20-30 somethings to develop products for future generations.
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
22k for a Prius? Do you really think that is the average price for one? Many sell upwards of $30k
http://www.realcartips.com/2009-Toyota-Prius-Prices/3245.html
The Volt will more than likely sell around $32.5k with the Tax rebate, people will flock to pay the extra $2.5k over the Prius to acquire a Volt no question about it.
The Volt will be a huge success
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
…I miss the concept and here you guys are posting these hurtful images….sniff sniff
(cool feature Lyle)
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
I don’t know about anyone else. But after reading Steve Rattner’s take on GM’s culture, I have a newfound respect for Lutz. Like him or not, the product quality has improved in the past five years, and given everything Rattner said, that’s pretty amazing.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/21/autos/auto_bailout_rattner.fortune/index.htm
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
I took the opportunity to dump some of my ‘cache’…and I could not resist. I’ll stop now.
(=
/frig
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
You’re pretty far off the mark here buddy. GM currently has about a 20% market share, that alone says they’re selling more vehicles than just about any one. 2nd there are tons of vehicles this 28 year old would love to buy at a GM dealer, in addition you have the Cruze and Spark coming out next year not to mention the Camaro and most importantly the Volt, which I plan to buy.
Just because you see your teenybopper friends driving Kia’s around doesn’t mean that is the most significant market out there.
GM went bankrupt because it’s production cost were too high, not because it couldn’t sell a vehicle.
BTW a well equipped Prius starts around $28k
http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/trims-prices.html#/?view=showroom&vehicle=3
The Volt with Tax rebate is only a few thousand more than that, with much higher capabilities. The Volt will sell fine compared to the Prius, in fact I expect the Prius sells to dramatically decrease as the Volt gains momentum.
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
I agree about the engineering and management jobs. But there are a lot of people out there who just look at the percentage and go with the Hondas and the Toyotas.
My point is that GM and Ford shouldn’t take their “American” status for granted. They need to prove to the American people that they’re better for America than the foreign manufacturers. And that buying a car from one of them helps the American economy more than buying a domestically assembled Toyota Camry with 80% American content. Especially if they’re getting our tax dollars. (And even Ford is with the DOE loan.)
I’m also happy that the Volt and the Cruze will be built here. It’s a great start. But they also need to increase their domestic content.
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October 27th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
What ads? I use Mozilla Firefox with a plugin called “Adblock Plus”.
I appreciate that ads support many of the sites I view, but I’ve been running some form of ad-blocker since around the year 2000 — so someone peed in that pool long ago. And it looked like an angry fruit salad. Whenever I set up a regular browser on a new computer, I’m kind-of shocked at what the Web looks like to most people….
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
It’s a free country, you have the right to spend your money as you wish as long as it’s legal.
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
As a member of the younger generation (I’m 31), I can tell you that there are lot of guys drooling over the Camaro. And the CTS. And, personally, I’ve never been into cars period, but I want a Volt. So, he must be doing something right.
Steve Jobs is 54, and everyone I know either has or wants an iphone. Shigeru Miyamoto designed the wii fit, and I absolutely love mine. And so do some of my younger friends. You don’t need to be a 20 something to know what will appeal to the 20 somethings.
Alan Mulally is 64, and I don’t think anyone could argue he hasn’t been an asset to Ford. Or that he shoudln’t stick around at least until the turnaround he started is complete. He’s one of the best CEOs in the business. Personally, I hope he sticks around until he’s 85.
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Hey Statik,
How about this one ?
Having fun today
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
And when there are gas shortages and gas lines, the Volt’s 40-mile all-electric range will be priceless. (Not to mention its futuristic Electromotive Metallic hue!!)
The credit and job crises have worsened the global oil situation while at the same time taking attention away from it. Depletion of existing fields plus abandoned investment plans in new wells are bringing a new crisis to our doorstep about the time the Volt is due to hit the dealerships in significant numbers.
[My apologies: Since this car has a plug, I thought I'd include a plug for my hue-name entry.]
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Close…but it is missing something.
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Noel Park – ROFL
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
…as is my hotlink
/best 2 out of 3
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
#98 Khadgars & #102 LauraM:
Well everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, and it’s nice to know that Mr. Luz has some fans. I’m just not one of them. I sincerely hope that he can prove me wrong.
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Thanks. I needed that!
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Somethings missing….yeah the PINK TIE!
I don’t know, I can’t post a picture. It must have to be accessible to Lyle. Can’t just post a pic that I have store on my computer. -1 for me.
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Yeah, the site isn’t hosting the shots…has to be hosted already. Head over to a ‘photoshack’ and upload it, then hotlink it here.
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
#112 statik:
Solstice. I rest my case.
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October 27th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
GM went bankrupt because stockholders became addicted to high-profit margin SUV’s, and neglected their R&D on next generation cars. Classic short term thinking. I remember GM dismissing the Prius with “the numbers don’t add up. Americans won’t go for it.”
They are scrambling to correct that situation now.
The main ‘compensation’ difference between American auto factory workers and ones in Japan is healthcare: the American worker has to fight for company provided healthcare, and the Japanese worker has national healthcare, wherever he works.
GM bankruptcy has not fixed that huge disadvantage; all American companies, and American workers, are burdened by this disadvantage vs. Japan, Germany, Italy, France, UK, etc…
Toyota autoworker pay in 2007:
Average monthly base pay 350,580 yen.
Average annual bonus: 2.58 million yen
In dollars, that is:
$35,970 annual pay, $22,051 annual bonus =
Average total compensation of $58,021
http://www.japaneconomynews.com/2007/03/15/japans-auto-workers-get-pay-raises-a-bit-and-better-bonuses/
That’s $219 less, per year, than the average UAW worker makes. Given the exchange rate (the dollar collapsing), since 2007 the Japanese probably earn MORE than Americans now.
The difference is National Healthcare.
The lack of it is killing American companies – the game has changed a lot since WWII.
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October 27th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/sl6uio/4
So I can post pictures now?!?!?!?
YEEEEEHAWWW!!!!
Yes.
Visit gravatar.com with this image (address at top) and you can has gravatar, too.
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October 27th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Well now you’ve gone and done it. You gave away the secret. The Trolls will have a field day with that feature until it gets pulled down. Let’s see how long it lasts.
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October 27th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Um, maybe … (second attempt):
http://i33.tinypic.com/sl6uio.jpg
Download and take this to Gravatar.com and make yourself a gravatar (or GIS for Captain Jack Sparrow to pick your own).
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October 27th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
I’m not actually a Bob Lutz “fan.” I was definately put off by his “I’m going to retire at the worst possible time because the job won’t be fun anymore if the government’s in charge” comment. But I do think that, on average, he improved GM’s product line-up. Was he the best man for the job? I don’t know. But Rattner kept him, and I think that says something.
My main point is that age has nothing to do with it either way. I’m hoping to live to be 120. And I don’t want to have to retire at 65 because some people think 20 somethings are automatically better. Also, there are some people at my work place who are past the convention retirement age. And I’ve learned a lot from them, so I’m happy that they weren’t forced to retire. For my own sake as well as theirs.
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October 27th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Is it anything like this?
This is called a Nutating Engine (I made an early forum post about it). It was being evaluated by the military to power things like unmanned surveillance drones. In addition to continuous combustion (very efficient), it can run on many more kinds of fuel, even bunker fuel.
I haven’t heard anything new on this subject since the forum post. Can anyone confirm that this is the “wave disc engine,” or if anything more recent has emerged about the Nutating engine?
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October 27th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
May be number of cycles wories GM. Lets count – commuting 80 miles you have 2 cycles per day and at least 2000 per 5 years. And that is battery cycle limit and waranty limit. On other hand I would go for the Volt even knowing that and having 2 cycles per day. I expect batteries last longer or it would be possible to replace cells. I see good business oportunity for small companies just repackeging of Volt batteries.
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October 27th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Actually, it’s more complicated than that. The Japanese companies pay for current worker’s health care benefits. And they split the bill with the government for their retirees.
The difference is that health care is much much cheaper in Japan, so it’s much less of a burden for Toyota and Honda than it is for GM and Ford. Partially because insurance companies are the employers and nonprofits, and they have a strong public option. (If you don’t sign up for one, you’re automatically enrolled in the one provided by your state.) But mostly because the government sets strict controls on things like doctor’s and nurse’s compensation and drug costs.
It works because the Japanese doctors have a high status in their culture. So they’re willing to accept relatively low wages. And since we pay higher prices for prescription drugs, they don’t have too. The tradeoff for consumers is that they also get lower quality MRI machines. They also have 30% copays that are not allowed to exceed a certain amount per month.
Also, companies like Toyota run their own hospitals, and do their own health insuring. It helps them keep costs down. Personally, I’m not sure why the Detroit three didn’t get together and do that. Or even the UAW. They certainly have a large enough pool…
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October 27th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Well I’m 66, so I figure that I can talk, LOL. I’m not about to retire either. It’s not that easy when you own a small business, and are responsible for the jobs of 20 people. Plus it provides the platform for our racing, which I promise you I won’t give up as long as I can pass the physical.
But I’m also the guy who said that the Scion would never fly. I would never dream of designing something like the Scion Xb, less still the Kia Soul. I don’t even like tattoos.
I think that Geronimo sums it up pretty well at #114, If you look at the Aveo versus the Fit, Yaris, Versa, and the Cobalt versus the Civic, Corolla, Sentra, that is a failure of product development. They haven’t kept up, and they (well we, actually) are paying the price.
Is that an age issue? I dunno, but I don’t claim to be able to think for 20-30 year olds, and they are the future of the market. My younger son, who is 29 told me about 3 years ago that he was not going to buy another ICE car, but wait for an electric. I laughed at him then, thinking that he was living in a dream world. Look what is happening now. Lutz scoffed at the Prius, and developed the Solstice/Sky, Pontiac GTO and G-8, just for a couple of examples. For what those fiascoes cost, they could have a real Prius fighter on the road today.
And I bet Steve Jobs has a few 20 something “cool consultants” on staff or on call. And i bet he pays attention to them too.
And now, having seen your subsequent comment, I refer you to it as well. Very good.
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October 27th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Try again….
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October 27th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Oh. I’m sure he does. And I’m sure Mulally does too. But not all 29 year olds think alike. My 24 year old co-worker doesn’t care about gas miliage and thinks global warming is a hoax. He likes the Corvette and the Viper. Go figure.
About my other comment–on re-reading it, I just wanted to clarify that I’m definately not advocating that we also control doctor’s and nurse’s pay the way Japan does. That wouldn’t work anywhere outside of Japan. And it certainly wouldn’t work in the US where medical schools charge such high fees.
We do have amazing doctors in the US. And they do much of the world’s medical research. That’s an advantage the US economy can’t afford to lose. Also, I’d certainly rather pay doctors high salaries than bankers.
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October 27th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
The Volt can’t possibly get 40Plus MPG in sustain mode. Just look at other GM products with the same power plant (2.4). The Volt is probably one the heaviest vehicles powered by this engine. So forget the math…. do the compare…. that’s the true answer.
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October 27th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
That is assuming that the Genset will be 100% the sole energy source in CS mode. In actuality both the Genset and Batt Pack can and will deliver power. They can adjust the electrical boost to whatever you want. It will probably be set to achieve on average 40-50mpg.
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October 27th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Okay, some notes.
The “Wave Generator Engine” was noted as being 5 times more efficient as a typical engine in an earlier. Which doesn’t really say alot, since they didn’t talk about the actual meaning of efficieny.
What they most likely mean is that the loses from peak efficieny due to say pumping etc have been cut to 20% of the original losses.
That means if we look at an Otto Cycle Engine with a Theortical Peak Efficieny (based on the thermaboundries, etc) of 50%, a traditional pistion engine running that Otto Cycle might return 30%. A wave type engine runnign the same Otto Cycle (which is probably impossible) might run at an efficieny of 46%. A dramatic increase! but more like a 50% improvement than a 5 fold improvement.
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October 27th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
MSG FOR BOB LUTZ:
I am intrigued with this new car! I think it offers more than any other manufacturer has on the radar these days! And it’s got one helluva look! I love that front end!
I have submitted my suggestion for the color: Lightnin’ (or Lightning). The color reminds me of lightning in a Colorado night sky. I think the marketing campaign would be great! “The 2010 Chevy Lighnting Volt…The hottest car on earth!”
One other suggestion: When I’m in L.A. and you announce that I have won the color naming contest, let’s talk about GM gives me the car, with a body wrap on it emblazoned with my marketing tag line and I’ll drive it every day around Colorado-you get free advertising in a state where the Green movement is in full swing and I get a beautiful new car to sport around in!
Whaddaya say, Bob?
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October 27th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
If Frank Weber said it, we could take it to the bank
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October 27th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Capt Jack:
http://i33.tinypic.com/okx2ps.jpg
I thought that “smilin’ Jack” most matched your humorous bent …
http://i34.tinypic.com/jrd6is.jpg
… however, I suspect you may be going for that whole manliness thing …
http://i34.tinypic.com/210ghno.jpg
NOTE: Gravatar, unlike me, takes care of the re-sizing for you automatically to get that nifty little picture above your comments.
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October 27th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Thanks Jackson, I think I’ll use the first one you posted.
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October 27th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
The Volt uses a 1.4.
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October 27th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Jackson:
After seeing that many photos of Johnny Depp, I’m starting to like the ones of Bob Lutz, LOL.
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October 27th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
It is easily explained in a U-tube video, “turbo encabulator”.
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October 27th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
So… what happened to the promised transparency?
GM would share their testing results and we’d acknowledge that the information was work-in-progress, understanding it was subject to change.
Instead, we don’t get any beyond a vague range guestimate. Nearly 3 years into the process and 80 pre-production vehicles, why such a fundamental question still unanswered?
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October 27th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Dear runwithscissors,
Yes, indeed, while we are all in LA we will gladly announce that have won the color naming contest. And it goes without saying that we will give you the car, with a body wrap on it emblazoned with your brilliant marketing tag line.
Sincerely Yours,
Bob Lutz and the GM Board
PS. We all really like your Volt.com handle “runwithscissors,” Mr. Geithner.
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October 27th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Toyota has stopped selling the lowest 2 trims of the Prius to only sell for Fleet customers. Why they did that I dunno. Every low trim model got scooped up faster than any higher trim model. So the lower trim models you are quoting in price is as attainable as EEStore’s ESU.
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October 27th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Fisker continues to make progress on their Volt-competitor:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-plant-to-make-electric-cnnm-2258511504.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=8&asset=&ccode=
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October 27th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Hey dude, what’s your year to date average MPG and what’s your highes MPG and lowest?
Jus curious, I haven’t popped in your site lately.
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October 27th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Huh? Model I was always just a fleet-only trim. Model II is still available for consumers.
But like all models, it’s the quantity produced that actually matters. Lots of choices contributed heavily to GM’s struggle (spread too thin).
For Volt, what is the expectation of model choices during Year-2, which 60,000 are planned for production?
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October 27th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
The Volt uses the 1.4 liter engine from the Cruze, but without the turbo stuff. (Not a 2.4 liter).
The engine supplies all the power during Charge Sustaining mode, but you are forgetting that the Volt has a huge battery to buffer energy for peak power demands. The engine can be used at fuel sipping RPM’s (between 1200 and 4000, they say), and extra energy generated (beyond that used to power the 150 hp electric motor each second) can be stored in the battery for future demands. In this way, using the ICE, used at power levels of 70 hp and below, can give a driving experience very similar to that of a regular 150 hp ICE engine, but with much better fuel efficiency. This is one of the key advantages of a serial hybrid – the large battery which allows you to smooth down the power generation curve, allowing you to replace the horrendous fuel efficiencies of “stepping on the gas” with a big ICE engine with the very efficient low RPM power plus battery power for acceleration needs.
Add in the ICE turning off whenever not needed, and regenerative braking, and the efficiencies are even greater, compared to “other GM products with the same power plant”.
Example power/RPM curve:
At 1200 RPM, “sipping gasoline” is an overstatement.
Even 4000 RPM is probably well below peak hp for this engine: the RPM will be a complicated function of power demand that second (that the electric motor needs), plus the cost of storing extra power to the battery (some losses in charging/discharging), plus the state of the battery charge, etc…
There are many variables that Chevy can tweak for a final CS mpg:
40 to 50 is definitely attainable.
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October 27th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
No, we won’t have lots of blackouts. As you say, most people will charge at night. Even if they don’t, it’s still not going to be a problem. The transition to electric cars will take years, which will give the power companies time to upgrade their capacity.
Example from http://www.duke-energy.com/plugin/phev-faqs.asp
Q: Can the grid handle an influx of PEVs?
A: Numerous studies have shown that a large number of PEVs could be on the grid at one time. Duke Energy is incorporating the additional usage of PEVs in our electricity load forecasting.
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October 27th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
This stuff is fascinating! I too would love to have some numbers. But, the above curves make it obvious that there “is no single number”. And these curves do not reveal efficiency. A big variable that complicates all of it is that if the ICE is turned on and it is running at a power level higher than what is needed instantaneously (regenerative braking is active) then the excess engergy is pumped into the battery. Even assuming that there are no losses there (not true at all), if we measure the amount of gasoline (or E85) used we are not being accurate, because some of that gas is now stored in the battery. Not so simple to tease this stuff out. But I volunteer to do some testing to help you guys out!
John
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October 27th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Have to admit I’m disappointed in the 40 – 50 MPG figure. I was anticipating 50 ++
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Noel,
In all due respect, the turn-down in the market because of the recession lead to GM’s bankruptcy not Bob Lutz! You may think he is responsible but there were many others who made decisions about what cars to produce. No one individual in GM was responsible for what happened to “old GM”. If you don’t like what is happening with the Volt an Bob Lutz being where he is, your missing the message.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Lyle,
I for one initially didn’t like the new format. I said it before and i”ll repeat it with an additional idea. We need a way to track a thread! In my comment before this one, I noticed the code that captures the quote. Would it not be possible to add a reference to the comment number within the quote code? That way, the commenter can see what comment to go back to to see the entire context.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again. Great job Lyle.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
The main issue for EV owners will be with multiple EVs attempting to use the same “last mile” electrical connection. Some states ::coughcaliforniacough:: have a bad mix of poor power tranmission development and rapidily expanding population.
Black-outs in Today’s USA occur more because of poorly designed transmission systems that lack of Power Generation. Even the State of California has capacity for hundreds of thosands of EVs at peak on most summer days. However, if X% of households on a certain line decide to plug-in all at the same time, it may overload the local transformers/structure.
The bad news:
Blackouts and Equipment upgrades will be happen/needed to support widespread PHEV adoption
The good news:
Widespread blackouts are extremely unlikely until more than 10% of the population owns an EV
Tranmission upgrades just got around a 3+ billion dollar shot in the arm “thanks” to the stimulus bill
Noted infrastructure improvements should happen -anyway-. PHEV adoption just pushes up the time frame for these improvements.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Why all this worry about the grid load? Everyone should take the federal rebate they get the next year and put it towards a solar package for their home. Then you will be a producer. If all PHEV/EREV/BEV buyers do that there is no Grid issue. The grid will rely on you, not you rely on the grid.
There’s still plenty of Solar rebates out there.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
I’m convinced that the Volt will use an Atkinson cycle engine.
As an example, the Prius uses a 1.8L gas engine that only produces a maximum of 98 hp:
http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/specs.html
but since this uses an Atkinson camshaft:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle
it gets 50 MPG.
In both the Volt and the Prius, the battery provides the extra peak horsepower.
However, the Prius always runs on gasoline…
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
There is a need to implement Smart Grid technology ASAP. The Administration unveiled $3.4 billion in grants to upgrade the nation’s electrical grid. As Americans are used to freedom, they will attempt to recharge their batteries whenever they find a need to do so. The electric grid may have sufficient capability to charge a large number of vehicles but we can’t not leave it to chance that it will not cause a black-out. If world events result in a sudden spike in petroleum prices, there may be more EV’s on the road sooner than you think. A sudden rise in oil price may cause a national emergency necessitating a government supported effort beyond what is happening now in order to make large numbers of EV’s available in order to sustain our way of life.If such a need to mobilize the population similar to what happened during WWII, does occur, we will need to have our national electric grid modernized.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Then why didn’t Ford or Toyota go bankrupt?
I actually don’t think Lutz was responsible, but the decisions GM made as a whole definitely led to their insolvency in a tough market.
Thanks god they stuck with the Volt. I truly believe EREVs will dominate the market in 10 years.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
True, those curves do not reveal efficiency – that’s why future generations of the Voltec cars might use GM’s HCCI engine, because the more efficient you are at producing the power to the generator, the better the mpg:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/30/autos/hcci/index.htm
Super-efficient engines ditch the spark
The next big step in gasoline engines burns fuel like diesel engines burn diesel. But hurdles remain.
June 11, 2008: 9:07 AM EDT
Yes, some energy left in the battery could muddle the mpg figure of the CS mode, but the Prius has a similar “problem” yet a definite MPG from EPA tests. Just run the test, see what you get. I guess one could game the test by programming things to make sure the battery has an absolutely empty buffer at the end of the test, but the EPA could easily average over a few tests…
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
To the Bob Lutz bashers, Bob Lutz thinks as clear as a bell. He’s not your average doddering septuagenarian. The Wall Street crash which almost claimed America was brought on by many 20 and 30 yo’s. Men in their seventies can be as capable as anyone these days. I drop the name John McCain. Ronald Reagan was the best president we’ve had in the past 40 years another seventies something.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
How much smarter does the “Grid” need to get? At most upgrade the TX lines. They can already monitor my load/drain and charge me accordingly. When I plug in I want the energy there. That’s all they need to do, get it to me. What needs to get smarter? Throttle my usage? Throttle my charge rate on my maybe BEV? Tell me when I can charge and when I can’t?
I dunno man, it all sounds “Big Brotherish” to me.
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October 27th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
On the east coast, even with rebates, the payback for solar is around 15 years or more, which is more than typical roof shingles will last.
In the southwest, solar is a much easier sell.
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Some will say they didn’t go bankrupt because they didn’t have Bob Lutz working for them!:) But like you I don’t think he was to blame. As for Ford and Toyota, they also took huge financial loses but not quite enough to force them to bankruptcy. Part of that the reason that GM did, was because of the huge investment in developing the Volt which if my memory is correct which neither Ford or Toyota had much to do.
I like you think that it was fortunate that GM did develop such a dynamic car!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Geronimo,
That would be the case if the Volt actually used the ICE to charge the battery, but as we know, the ICE will only minimally sustain the battery, and is not intended to be used to act as a power leveling arrangement, that your suggesting.
This would be a definite plus if GM did this, but they have poo-pooed the idea of using the ICE to charge the battery. It will only sustain it.
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Still, we wait for the first article on the experience during charge sustain mode.
GM, come on, how long are you going to keep this under your hat? This is WHAT THE Volt is about! Otherwise, it’s just a BEV.
When I win the paint name contest, you can bet I will run the Volt into the CS mode, no matter what the guy sitting next to me says! So, I will likely be the first non-GM’r to experience this mode.
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
I wouldn’t wan to be embarased being the one who made the blackout!, CaptJackSparrow! The idea of having a Smart Grid is efficiency. It will provide you with cheaper electricity cost by telling you what the best time to run appliances like your dish washer, etc. It will allow electric utilities to balance supply of electricity and minimize the need to use additional power generation by say petroleum or natural gas generators when increased demand occurs.
Texas is not effected by Federal Government regulation since it’s grid is independent from the nationwide grid. It is a model for other states power generation industry. It is the leading state in wind generation. It’s legislature has already passed a bill to build a transmission corridor from the Pan Handel to Dallas/Fort Worth area. I would like to see them move to more natural gas generated power to replace coal burning plants which Texas has a lot of.
As a final comment on your thread, you wont have any say about when you can or can not charge up if you black out the grid.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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October 27th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
I agree with CaptJackSparrow on using the rebates to buy a solar array. Your utility company can then pay you for the electricity you don’t use and put onto the grid. If everyone had a solar array on their home, we wouldn’t need to burn coal to generate electricity. But until that happens, the grid is the primary source of power.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Texas is also going Solar Thermal out in Marfa TX, (least amount of cloudiness/rain). Mirrors are far cheaper than solar panels, and, Solar Thermal can store lots of heat in superheated synthetic oil reserve tanks. (An idea that I suggested 7 years ago to an EE friend who said to me,
entirely out of any context of any explanation,
“I need a large thermal buffer”, he said.
I had no idea of what he was wanting a large thermal buffer for, but, I just said “A large tank of oil can be heated up to high temperatures, say, 600 degrees”.
All he then said was “That’s a buffer”, not saying what for.
As the sun goes down, something like that could keep some reserve of heat to drive steam turbines a while longer to help with the first onset of peak demand after 3:00 pm, I would suppose.
Good things are happening all over the place for renewable energy production here in Texas, which is exceptionally cool.
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
This scourge shall surely be the demise of us all.
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
When evaluating the impact on foreign oil usage, two things must be considered, the number of cars cutting into usage and the amount each car cuts. So it the market price results in 5 times as many Priuses as Volts, then which vehicle is taking the bigger bite? For example, say 1000 people buy the Volt and drop their consumption from 470 gallons a year to 70 gallons, the bite is 400,000 gallons of reduction. But if 5000 people buy the Plug-in Prius, and drop their consumption from 470 gallons to 175 gallons, the bite is 1.4 million gallons.
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October 27th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Then surely GM must have at least a handful of “Atkinson” patents on the 1.4 by now. Can you find one?
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October 27th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Yes, I agree, it makes the most sense. I don’t think this has been confirmed by GM yet, but in the Forums on this site, it has been discussed as most likely. The Atkinson-Miller type cycles give good fuel efficiency at the expense of lower power, but the battery is there for power peaks.
But it can still be the Cruze 1.4 liter (economies of scale – GM wants to use an off the shelf small engine), they just have to change the timing of the compression and power strokes (different camshaft, maybe different fuel/air mixtures, etc – different engine control unit software). I think it is about 99% a standard Cruze 1.4 liter (hardware).
I wonder if these six-stroke engines that I just heard about could be useful as the generator power source ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-stroke_engine
Wikipedia says the Otto cycle engine is about 35% efficient, the six-stroke engines can be more than 50% efficient (I think the Atkinson is somewhere in the middle)
The Velozeta six-stroke engine ( which just injects air into a cylinder after the exhaust stroke, for another power stroke – the air expands from the heat of the cylinder – then exhausts out just the heated air) uses the heat of combustion more efficiently, almost eliminates the need for a cooling system, reduces pollution, and seems to show 40% reduction in fuel consumption. This engine was just developed in 2006 in India. Could be a winner.
And there are other designs of efficient six-stroke engines (but some require an onboard source of distilled water, etc…).
Any super-efficient engine (even a turbine) that can handle the 70 hp peak that the generator will use, is a candidate for future Volts…
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October 27th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Sorry, but that is incorrect. Overall, the ICE will supply the average power required by the Volt’s electric drive-train during charge sustaining mode. For example, when accelerating the excess power required (above the average power being supplied by the ICE/Genset) will be supplied by an energy buffer in the battery, just as it is in the Prius. If the instantaneous power required by the Volt’s electric driver-train is below the average power required (going down hill for example), the excess current produced by the ICE/Genset will charge the battery. It will all be controlled by SW that GM is fine tuning now. When in charge sustaining mode, the ICE/Genset will maintain the battery SOC (State of Charge) within a range — for example from 28% SOC to 32 SOC%. If the battery SOC gets above 32%, the ICE will shut off or drop to idle, whatever it takes to keep from charging the battery past the buffer upper limit using the ICE).
If the battery SOC drops below the battery buffer lower limit (28% SOC in my example) the power available to the Volt’s electric drive-train will be limited to what the ICE/Genset can provide. This is the notorious Pike’s Peak (long steep hill) example. Any excess electric demand will not be allowed to be withdrawn from the battery by the Volt’s SW as long as the battery’s SOC is at the low limit of the buffer.
Where the confusion seems to come into the picture is the fact that the ICE/Genset will not charge the battery back up to an 80% SOC, that would defeat the whole purpose of using the electric grid. To fully recharge the battery (80% SOC), you will have to plug it in.
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October 27th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
167.
Guy Incognito Says:
October 27th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Volt GenSet to get approx 40~50 MPG? Sounds good to me.
=D~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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October 27th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Don’t get confused by the words “charge” and “sustain” – the Volt will definitely use the large, expensive battery sitting next to the generator as an integral part of its Charge Sustaining mode.
The Volt does use a power leveling arrangement: – how else can the 71 hp generator power the 150 hp electric motor ? The power peaks call upon power from the battery. How can this happen over and over again on a 200 mile highway drive ? Because the generator puts excess power into the battery buffer for future use (as does the regen braking). GM has repeatedly said the CS mode will feel just like the CD mode – this is how they accomplish that. A small fraction of the battery (5% to 10%, it has not been finalized yet) is used as an energy buffer, which is charged/discharged over and over during CS mode.
GM calls this “sustaining the charge” to distinguish it from “charging (i.e., completely, as though the car has just been plugged in all night) the battery”.
The exact details of this complicated powertrain management will determine the performance, fuel efficiency, and “feel” of the Volt. That is why GM doesn’t want journalists to see this extremely important “work in progress” until it is ready for prime time (probably next Summer/Fall).
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Even though everyone bashed this comment I have to agree that for such a small engine which is programmed to run in specific “efficient” rannges 40-50 seems…… just acceptable. It won’t look too good in the eyes of many consumers who don’t consider the 40 mile all electric range when they compare it to a prius which is 50 combined EPA. From a marketing perspective people generally aren’t SUPER SMART (Hence all the though GM is putting into education about these “special electric cars) and alot won’t even consider the car if it does less than the competitions Hybrid. The sad part is I see it happening as the majority of people will look for a reason to justify getting a cheaper prius because it gets 2 mpg more than the Volt.
And I gaurntee Fox news running a segment about how Toyota is still ahead of GM because of those extra 2…
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Bob Lutz, I have to say you are a useless bonehead when it comes to tech&engineering, all you and other top managers are nothing but poorly business professionals, and your ex-experience with bankrupted Exide also cast doubt on your capability. There are two problems with GM.
1). Managers under wall-street pressure pursuing short-term solutions and gains, in sharp contrast to Toyota.
2). Companies are hijacked by greedy where their salary is unfortunately not supported by economic reality.
Should I manage GM, Bob Lutz and Frits will be terminated immediately! I will bring the Japanese style (not trying to copy Toyota completely), in combination with American ingenuity to get GM out of its 50y non-stop decline.
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Whoops, you commented before I Submitted, so I didn’t see yours…
Yes, you are absolutely correct.
I also wonder how often the ICE will be turned off completely. it’s not necessarily when the battery buffer is full (32% in your example). The Prius often turns off the engine at midpoint, not fullpoint. And when coming to a full stop, it would be nice if the engine was off completely (unless the energy buffer was completely depleted, 28% in your example).
I haven’t heard if GM intends to stop the ICE often during CS mode. It would be nice in touch and go highway jams, to cruise along in total quiet while the battery is going from 32% to 30%, or 35% to 30% (whatever the final energy buffer halfway point is). The Volt doesn’t need to idle in traffic jams. Once the battery buffer is good enough, it should shut down (the computer will know you’re in a traffic jam).
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
http://jalopnik.com/5391222/jaguar-pusses-out-of-jalopnik-vs-gm-race
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
#151 Dave G (the quote option didn’t work)
GM has been effectively bankrupt since 2000, which is well before Bob Lutz came aboard. They hung on for eight more years due to the SUV boom and loose credit markets. GM’s bankruptcy was literally decades in the making.
Ford borrowed a ton of money before the credit markets seized up. And they’re still far from being out of the woods. Especially given the UAW’s recent vote. (Sometimes I wonder what planet they think they live on.)
Toyota (and Honda) don’t have GM’s image problem that they earned during the 70s. They don’t have their enormous pension/retiree health care liabilities. They don’t have to deal with the UAW. They were able to automate much of their production. They dominate the 5 million unit Japanese market. And, as if those advantages weren’t enough, they have a weak yen to help them out. I could go on…
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October 27th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Yes, good point. I’ve read several statements by GM engineers stating this exact point. Under the right conditions, the ICE will shut off at stop lights. The details will be in the SW.
Cheers!
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October 28th, 2009 at 12:57 am
Good point. I just read an article where for night charging, transformers need to cool down and if there is too much demand at night, it will still cause a problem. Ultimately transformer upgrades and smart meters will fix these potential problems, so the stimulus money for this definitely makes sense (we need to upgrade the grid anyways as more people get big TVs and such).
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October 28th, 2009 at 1:33 am
His pink socks are just out of the frame.
I would love to see you on the Colbert Report Statik. You are entirely humourous.
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October 28th, 2009 at 2:23 am
I see no ads either. I have Firefox + NoScript, which doesn’t allow any scripts to run unless I give it permission =)
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October 28th, 2009 at 4:28 am
GM has the opportunity to shut the engine off even more often than the Prius, but these opportunities are during very low power operation so how often will they occur outside of the AER? I suppose those with commutes in heavy traffic and long enough to exhaust the AER could benefit significantly from this as they crawl home in evening traffic.
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October 28th, 2009 at 4:34 am
Didn’t see your original comment before my last one. I agree and GM engineers have stated this is their intent, but the devil is in the details here for them to properly maximize this advantage.
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October 28th, 2009 at 4:43 am
True for the average buyer. GM will have to hammer home what 40 miles AER really means. I’m sure this was a big part of their reasoning for the “230″ marketing campaign.
It is another matter for “Prius” minded buyers. Those buyers are more efficiency and energy conscious. They are just looking for the cheapest first cost or they would be looking at 3 year old Yarises.
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October 28th, 2009 at 5:32 am
Google fight!
Bob Lutz vs Ricardo Montalban
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Bob+Lutz&word2=Ricardo+Montalban
NRCLNS
=D~
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October 28th, 2009 at 5:54 am
Dave K. That was strange.
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October 28th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Rashiid:
Doesn’t it say somewhere in the Bible, “The last shall be first, and the first shall be last”?
5:54 am? Aren’t you in the Eastern zone? Sheesh, you guys are getting a little obsessive, LOL. By the time we get up in LA it’s all over, hahaha.
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October 28th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Smart Grid is a nonstarter and mostly nonsense. Most of the benefit comes from interconnecting localized grids. This stabilizes the Grid and it would be good, as any power EE would assert. But it has largely been done already.
The nonsense comes from ignorant clucks who want the ability to wheel power from Massachusetts to California and from Minnesota to Texas. But it is almost not worth the mega- billions to do so, as there is already plenty of grid interconnectivity to damp out oscillations and provide reliable power everywhere.
Much like train electrification it has proceeded about as far as engineers’ electrical loss calculations say it makes sense to go. Sending electricity into a grid for transmittance to a place several thousand miles away is idiotic and almost all of it ends up as simply as IR heat losses on the wires. What comes out the other end is a few dribs and drabs of what was put in.
Smart grid is also about enforced load shedding. The few billions that the politicians voted to spend is a drop in the bucket compared to the needs for grid inter-transmissions building and more insignificant in truly enforcing V2G or smart metering for selective load shedding. And Captain Jack is correct, Its Big Brotherish too.
As a Arizona resident,who has prudently paid the Utilities to build sufficient electrical reserves, I don’ t mind selling my surplus capacity at enormous profitable rates to to the green loons in California. The self-styled “Eloi” who have decided that it they are too fastidious to have things like power plants around their sweet little piece of synthetic heaven.
But I’ll be damned if my load demand is able to be shed, to sell the power more profitably to California “Eloi” when I need it locally, and I have no control or say about it.
Stick your Smart Grid up your ar$e for things like that. And yes the California Eloi Greens have almost created that very situation. They refuse ot allow any new electrical generation ot be buiilt and Califoria’s electrical generation is lower than it was 15 years ago. Every western state and even under-developed Mexico peddles power to fastidious California. When one stops, as its reserves grows too small, California goes dark. And many states are getting close to the point of doing so. See:
http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_2_californias_environmentalism.html
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October 28th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
I’m struck by the resemblence to cinematic Detective Frank Drebbin.
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October 28th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Sounds about right. My ‘09 Prius gets between 44 and 49 mpg driven normally. I can do some tricks and push it into the low 50’s but its not really worth it. A 1.4L in the the Volt should be on par with the Honda and Toyota hybrid’s gas engines.
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October 28th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Smart Grid makes sense actually. I work for a SW supplier. The current system is terribly ineffcient and antiquated. Updating will add the equivalent of millions of barrels of oil. Think of it as EFI for the power grid, and spread the cost over the entire country. Its actually a bargain.
FYI, believe it or not the main opposition to upgrading is from companies who fear liability. When a decision is made to cut power now its almost an indeterminant impact, but with a SmartGrid you’ll know what youu’re doing and so you open yourself up for liability. Funny, huh?
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October 28th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
True that! Did you see the photo of the, dare I say it, BYD on the next thread. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!
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October 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
1. Rashiid Amul
<>
yeah, we don’t get E85 in CA either. 40-50 MPG is no big deal. I get that (more like 48 mpg) wih my Prius. My brother claims that he has an overall 44 mpg with his very old Saturn… look ma, no battery!
Cheers!
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October 28th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Electrical power transmission does experience losses, but for example Los Angles imports power from the Columbia River over a 750,000 Volt DC line.
I do not believe the USA is connected with high capacity 500,000 Volt AC lines, and there are not enough variable transformer units to control power flow across the connections. But if such an infrastructure was built, we could transfer power from the East coast to the West and from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico. But government regulation and litigation have combined to prevent such a modern system from being built. With such a system we could optimize the utilization of the least polluting and most cost effective power generating sources.
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October 28th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
I’m gonna have to get up at 4 am so I can beat Rashid as the first poster on here since nobody ever reads ALL these posts do they? But as a Left coaster here at number 191 I have this suggestion: Test the Volt against a 2010 NIMH Prius on a 500 and 1000 mile loop. Then test the Volt against a 2011 – 2012 Plug in lithium Prius for the same cycle.
My guess is the Prius will be a higher value purchase with a much cheaper battery pack replacement. Higher practicability and a lower MSRP.
No I don’t work for Toyota, I do own a Prius. I’m impressed with my highway and long range mileage, even with four people in the car. It’s the short trips where my NIMH 2007 Prius falls short of expectations – pulse-and-gliding and all.
Will Americans turn out in droves for a $40,000 electric car with less range than pure electrics ( less than half ), but no range anxiety? It seats 4 and 4 bags of groceries….hmmm
GM has a TV spot where they claim one thing Honda makes better than they do is a lawnmower. Honda also makes the very best small, quiet gas generators. Put a little Honda generator in a box in the rear of a Volt and let it charge the drive batteries while traveling down the road.
Lol.
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October 28th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
What you can’t do with a Prius in Connecticut, Brian, is drive 40 miles without a drop of gas. The time is coming when this type of technology will pay for itself.
Nevertheless, I do find it interesting that a Prius can get similar mileage with an electric-assist 2.4L engine as the Volt claims using an indirect drive 1.4L engine.
It makes one wonder what the engine-mode mileage of the Volt would be if they had connected the motor to the drive shaft…
Respectfully,
Dr. Ibringdoh
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October 28th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Funny, I did.
Respectfully,
Dr. Ibringdoh
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October 28th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
The Chinese are already working on Ultra-High Voltage (UHV) transmission lines for their mega hydropower projects, and are redoing their entire power grid.
(UHV refers to 1000 kilo-volts or higher for AC, 800kv or higher for DC power transmission. Power losses are much less than for common 500kv AC lines)
They are also using these UHV transmission lines from the solar/wind production regions to the cities on the coast.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-02/07/content_10778346.htm
http://www.powermag.com/POWERnews/China-to-Triple-Ultra-High-Voltage-Transmission-Lines-by-2012_1773.html
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October 30th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Bob Lutz racing his Cadillac in the Best Car Wins race day.
http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2009/10/30/n_gm_cadillac_race_lutz.cnnmoney/
=D~
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November 2nd, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Have you looked at the styling of the 2010 Prius? It is now a stylel statement and turns heads. The base model is $22,400. Power and acceleration is more than adequate and the technology has a ten year head start with patent protection galore. I just did a calculation regarding how I actually drive. 6000 miles a year of trips that are 500 miles. 14000 miles per year on a 42 mile commute. At today’s prices of gas ($2.60 per gal) and electricity at ($0.10 per kwh) the Volt would be only $515 per year less expensive to drive. It looks like it will cost $17600 more to buy one. In today’s economy people buy Chevy brand because it is low cost solution to the masses’ transportation needs. If the Chevy Volt costs the masses $40000, it will fail as mainstream transportation. GM needs to wake up and set realistic price targets for the Volt if they expect the Volt to succeed.
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