Besides the MRSP two other things about the Volt people are very interested in is whether they might be available prior to November 2010, and whether GM will in some way use, honor or work with our GM-Volt want list.
Though this list was never intended as a true pre-order list it has served as a long-standing symbolic beacon to GM illustrating the significant demand that exists for this type of vehicle.
As launch day draws nearer, GM has begun to publicly acknowledge these issues, albeit slightly.
Brent Dewar is the new head of Chevrolet, replacing Ed Peper.
In a recent webchat, Dewar was asked if there was a Volt waiting list.
Dewar replied:
We have not started a waiting list, because we don’t want anyone waiting at this time. Once we get closer to production, roll out across the States and regions, we will start taking a list. We do not have our roll out plans decided yet. More to come. In the meantime, stay connected with me.
CEO Fritz Henderson took a similar question in his web chat.
“Will there be an official wait list established for the Volt next year?” asked a participant named Aldo. ” Will you work with the unofficial list at GM-Volt.com?”
“Work underway today to develop initial start up allocation plans,” replied Henderson. “While we really appreciate the strong initial interest, we do not expect to work from the unofficial waiting list.”
Not looking to good straight from the top.
What about the chance of an earlier-than-expected Volt launch? I asked Mr. Henderson that one myself.
What volume of Chevy Volts do you expect to build in year one, and is it possible the release could come sooner than November 2010?
Fritz Henderson: lyle- good to hear from you. we do expect a very controlled acceleration of volt start up beginning late next year. we are constantly evaluating and tweaking our plans, but do not look for a wholesale pull ahead.
This statement could be interpreted in different ways. I’ll leave it up to you to decide.
We do know GM will only be building around 2500 Volts in calendar year 2010 and at least 10,000 in 2011. I have recently discovered roll-out plans apparently have been determined though not yet made public.
“We won’t do a rollout in a way we typically do with a vehicle everybody understands,” GM VP Jon Lauckner told Wards Auto. “We’ll probably pick pockets to begin with, like the West and East Coast.
This entry was posted on Friday, October 23rd, 2009 at 6:13 am and is filed under Launch, Marketing. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+7
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:19 am)Good morning, Lyle.
From the article:
“We’ll probably pick pockets to begin with, like the West and East Coast.
I would think New York and Los Angeles would be interesting places to start. That covers Lyle and Noel Park.
I think GM would be crazy not to contact people on our over 50,000 want list. How many cars have a list that long of potential customers?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:22 am)By Nov 2010 there will be several electric varient cars rolling out.
So that will take the luster off the volt.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:24 am)They’re going to “pick our pockets?”
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:29 am)Lyle,
There was once talk about many vehicles being put into the hands of media for evaluation, demonstration, good will, etc. It sounded like that was going to be on the order of thousands. Is that the possible use of the first units off the assembly line? And would they still be called PPV’s (the first 2-3 thousand)?
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:41 am)Have one in every dealer’s showroom in 2010, that way people get to test drive them and build the public excitement for the full launch in 2011.
The best way to build a movment is with word of mouth and what better way to spread that word than across america!
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:43 am)The Volt list will likely be similar to the Camaro preorders, which involved a significant (although refundable) deposit and started about 6 months before the car showed up.
Of course, the Camaro involved a years’ worth of Volts in a single month, so to speak, so GM may manage the length of the Volt list more carefully.
It’s also worth noting that unordered Camaros were being sold (often at significant dealer markup) before GM shipped all the Camaros to all the preorders who, as I said, had money down. People complained to Henderson on a webchat and he shrugged it off.
So, don’t look for the list to be satisfied quickly or for it to seem particularly fair when cars finally start to ship.
And don’t expect an increase in the pace of Volt production. GM is going to have its hands full getting 10K done in the first twele months.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:57 am)>“We won’t do a rollout in a way we typically do with a vehicle everybody understands,”
Frankly this statement annoys me. How do they know where people will “understand” the Volt? It’s not that hard of a concept to understand. I think they misjudge the public.
Sadly, each statement they make seems to make the possibility of me seeing a Volt in Tennessee less and less. I just wish they’d be less coy about it and flat out state where they are planning on selling the cars initially and when general availability is planned.
+7
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:57 am)Yersterday I read a article about why Rick Wagner was fired, normaly I don’t give these articles too much credit but!! They talked about how poorly GM is managed and how GM managment lives in there ivory tower out of step with employees and the rest of the world. All that to say why would you want to tick off a list of 50k plus potential buyers. Talk about way over playing your hand, just out of bankrupcy. In my way of thinking there has to be some way of exploiting that list.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:57 am)They already have! But hey I’m in favor of the bailouts and GM’s survival, I want my Volt too!. Me and my father were part of the GM family till our plant closed: Moraine Assembly Truck Plant, Moraine, Ohio.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:00 am)LOL! I had to re-read that one too.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:01 am)Guess what folks… That’s a Better Place charge point the Volt is connected to.
Can we get some details on that relationship?
+7
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:05 am)“I think GM would be crazy not to contact people on our over 50,000 want list. I agree, Rashiid ….and they have all our email addresses! They might even offer gm-volt.com members an “early-adopter special” such as a free wall-mount charger cord kit as an early-buyer incentive.
PS: Don’t forget Florida’s also a coastal state with lots of savvy gm-volt.com enthusiasts!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:09 am)But why only the east and west coasts? There is a large section of the country (i.e., most of it) that does not consist of Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, (a corner of) New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North and South Carolina, (a corner of) Georgia, Florida, Alaska, Washington, Oregon, California, and – while it’s not on a coast, it is bordered by an ocean – Hawaii. I count 19 states that are on the coasts, leaving 31 states that are consistently ignored when it comes to products of this nature.
Having said that, I understand that many of the largest population centers are on the coasts: New York City, Los Angeles, (Chicago), (Houston), (Phoenix), (Philadelphia), (San Antonio), (Dallas), San Diego, and San Jose. Oh, I’m sorry – only 4 of the top 10 cities by population are on either cost. This, again, shows my point that there is more to America than the east and west coasts. Adding on the next 10, only 7 of the top 20 cities by population are on the east and west coasts. And the trend keeps going: looking into the next 10, again only 3 are from the east and west coasts.
Why does most of corporate America ignore the interior of the country?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:12 am)That makes two of us in Florida Phil.
Take Care,
TED
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:14 am)Maybe some other company might be interested in my business if GM won’t honor a wait list I’ve been on since 2007.
Take Care,
TED
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:17 am)A good deal of information in this launch and marketing post. NGMCO needs to be given credit for being straight forward on the question of honoring a waiting list and on not rushing the time line.
12,500 units produced by the end of 2011? Benefits of holding the release of the Volt from the mass market until 2012? What will this accomplish?
The Cruze will have a good chance of becoming a established factor in the mpg market. And the usual list of EV providers (and Ford?) will have highway ready cars for sale. Maybe the development time is needed to offer an even better battery?
As Hal mentions above, the question of lag time on the release of the Volt can be addressed by offering showroom test drives. Seems many will test a Volt and then buy a Cruze.
=D~
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:18 am)I too understand exactly how a volt works and I want one. That’s why I’m on the GM-Volt.com Waitlist.
Take Care,
TED
+6
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:20 am)“we don’t want anyone waiting at this time.”
That has got to be the dumbest thing I’ve heard come out of any GM executive.
The minute they announced the Volt would go to production, many people began waiting.
I for one attribute the drop in car sales to the Volt production announcement.
He’s lucky I’m not his boss; I have a small tolerance for ignorance.
NPNS!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:26 am)Rashiid:
I’m going out on a limb here but I’m guessing that GM wants to sell these cars in the first 2 years on the East and West coasts pretty much exclusively. You may see a few in other locations like Chicago, Toronto, and so forth, but they will look for high profile places for the first 2 years. Then you’ll start to see them filter down to more mainstream localities. I fully don’t expect to see a Volt in my little part of the world for at least 3-4 years from now–at the earliest. From everything that GM has said, they will sell these cars to select people, at select locations, at very high sticker prices. The so called “EV for the masses” is a few years away yet beyond the time the first car rolls off the lot for consumer purchase. Gen. 2 may be the car the bulk of us are pining for. Maybe even Gen. 3.
Personally I’m ok with all of this. The car needs to get out there and be seen and noticed and understood before prices can come down, technology can get better, bugs can be worked out, and volume capacities can be realized. It’s just the way the cookie crumbles.
+2
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:28 am)Rashiid noted I think gm would be crazy not to contact people on our over 50,000 want list..
But when Lyle asked Will you work with the unofficial list at GM-Volt.com? Fritz responded “While we really appreciate the strong initial interest, we do not expect to work from the unofficial waiting list.
—————————–
You have to ask yourself how many other corporations with something to sell would toss away a list of 50,000 good prospects. Would Toyota do that? Would Honda? Would Apple? Would DisneyWorld? The last is the only one I know well, and I guarantee you that they would be taking big deposits or even full prepayments. Of course, these companies are not so caught up in their own procedures, and all are profitable. And as gm dwadles, their prospects drift off to Ford and Nissan and all the others.
At the same time, we see again how critically important Lyle and gm-volt have been in the history of the Volt to this point. If these had not existed, the whole Volt concept would have been buried under 37 gm committees. Good work! At least somebody someplace sometime will get a Volt.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:29 am)“Sadly, each statement they make seems to make the possibility of me seeing a Volt in Tennessee less and less.”
____________________________________
Do you know what you WILL be seeing in Tennessee? — The Leaf.
Nissan plans to be pumping 150,000/yr out of the Smyrna plant by 2012.
In regards to their respective company’s potential in volume sales of electric cars — Ghosn and Henderson sound like polar opposites.
/I’d post a couple links, but it seems like half the time when I do my comment gets yanked.
//Lyle, are there some ground rules I should know about as far as what can or cannot be linked?
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:35 am)I always did theeenk that there Volt might be a wee bit hard for us to figur out four us dumb folk here in Youngstown, Ohio. I mean, mebbie we might try to plug in that adapter upside down or sumptin….
Give me a break!
Those are just about the most insulting comments I have ever heard!!
Instead of selling to people that have taken the time to understand the workings of the vehicle and are making themselves available to pay to be early adopters (read that as beta-testers), these guys have decided to take the movie star and politician route, because they think it will generate demand. Lets see how much feedback and understanding they get from those clowns when the inevitable bugs crop up in those first 10K units.
If they do not want to use Lyle’s list, that is their choice, but then they should be taking pre-orders with guaranteed pricing, so the dealers can’t just jack up the price by $10K on a unit that I put down a deposit of a similar size over a year before delivery. But I guess that is moot, as I live out in the sticks anyway…..
I really like the Volt’s design and technology implementation, but if GM thinks I will wait until 2013 to buy one, they are living in a dream world.
IMHO, this is just not a well thought out delivery plan for a brand new transportation technology.
And by the way, Mr. Henderson and Mr. Dewar, since you live in Michigan, does that mean you will also not be able to drive a Gen-1 Volt????
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:37 am)The other side is that until a Volt is there I will never go into a Chevy dealership, not even to replace my truck.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:38 am)I know it’s nitpicking, but Houston IS on a coast. It has one of the largest ports in the US. Also, for all intents and purposes, Philadelphia is on a coast. Philly has a Navy yard and a Cruise Terminal, so I’d consider that a city with “Coast Access”
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:39 am)What the movie title “Dumb and dumber”?
You can see re-runs here and there.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:39 am)Michigan has an East and West Coast! It is also 4th on the list!
+2
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:41 am)It’s not the Volt nation or public that needs to understand the Volt. It’s the dealerships and service people that need to train etc. The early hybrid Tahoes were delayed months waiting for this training. By the way my hybrid Tahoe is an excellent vehicle and almost matches my CR-V in mileage.
+4
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:42 am)RB says,
You have to ask yourself how many other corporations with something to sell would toss away a list of 50,000 good prospects.
My point exactly. And the question is not just, Who? But also, Why?
Why would GM want to ignore a list of 50,000 potential customers?!
It just doesn’t make any sense to me at all. But then again, I don’t really understand marketing because I thought the purpose of marketing was to get customers.
I know. I know. I’m the dumbest one here because I can’t figure this out.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:42 am)Wasn’t there mention of selling these on ebay initially? Maybe they won’t honor a waiting list because they don’t want to rule out an auction style sale. From their standpoint, that is probably the best way to get the most money on a limited supply from the people who want it the most.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:44 am)Fritz Henderson: lyle- good to hear from you. we do expect a very controlled acceleration of volt start up beginning late next year. we are constantly evaluating and tweaking our plans, but do not look for a wholesale pull ahead.
—–
Maybe Fritz is talking this way because he is in PR mode. If he actually talks this way in real life, I wonder if he is aware that nobody understands what he means. As Lyle commented, you can understand the sentence to mean any of several different things.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:46 am)The population in some of those Eastern and Western states have the highest density, and wealth. An excellent formula for the Volt where it would shine the most with all those commuters.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:46 am)“Oh, I’m sorry – only 4 of the top 10 cities by population are on either cost.”
Incorrect:
1. NYC
2. LA
4. Houston
6. Philadelphia (for practical intensive purposes, its on the coast)
9. San Diego
10. San Jose
That’s six out of the top ten, not four.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population
Respectfully,
Dr. Ibringdoh
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:47 am)Schmeltz,
I see your point, and don’t necessarily disagree with you.
The first year, GM will sell 10,000 Volts.
I wonder if it will be 5,000 in New York, 5,000 in Los Angeles.
Nasaman not withstanding down in Florida.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:53 am)Yeah, that “pull ahead” thing confused me. Perhaps this picture represents the kind of “pull ahead” movement Fritz is describing . . .
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jhcarter3/3865614527/
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:54 am)Schmeltz –> It is frustrating to me, but you could well be right. Another way of saying the same thing is that gm wants the Volt as a symbolic car that can be on TV in the hands of a few celebrities and spun to the government, but gm is not really interested in selling Volts as real cars to real people, thinking that if they can get the public’s interest with the Volt on TV then they can switch their interest and sell them a “real car” or truck instead. It is a somewhat cynical view without any hard evidence to support it, but possibly it’s correct.
+5
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:57 am)RB
I agree with all who think that GM should work with our list at least to the extent of e-mailing us when they are ready to take orders or deposits. To disregard a list of 50,000 + potential customers is a FOOLISH error that even a burger joint would not make.
Corvette Guy, wouldn’t you like the e-mail addresses of all on this list who are within 250 miles of your dealership.
+3
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:59 am)I think his answers were a bit arrogant. I’m sure he could have answered those questions with a little more finesse. I guess, it’s just part of the old culture showing up.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:03 am)Jim I
I would bet a FEW exceptions will be made for Michigan.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:07 am)Because the 1st generation Volt is basically an experiment……a trial balloon (albeit an expensive one). With the government in control now and a frantic need to turn the GM ship around the focus needs to turn to producing cars that make money for the company. Unfortunately the Volt won’t. Hopefully future iterations will. I still commend GM for taking the lead in E-REV development and hope the Volt lays down the foundation for others to follow and make the technology affordable for the masses.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:07 am)Dr lbringoh,
When I say dense, I don’t mean looking only at the population. I’m looking at the population and closeness of cities. For example, the Northeast has the highest density and this is a fact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=highest+dense+population+of+the+USA&sourceid=mozilla-search
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:09 am)I think they realize our list was started early and due to changes in Volt design & specifications, including price, over time some may have changed their mind. Also it is their Ace in the hole. They figure if somethign goes wrong, IE economy does not rebound in time, OPEC keeps gas prices low during Volt launch in effor tto kill it etc, they can then send our list to marketing to unload those already made. Additionally it could pose legal entanglements by honoring a list such as ours. Considering you now pay about 20K for an ICE car of the Malibu character, an extra $12,500 for the security of having transportation if Opec embargoes or nukes go flying in the mideast etc.. not to mention the green factor & energy independence is worth it.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:10 am)Lyle,
I suspect that the state franchise laws that hurt GM’s ability to sell cars through eBay also prevent GM from making good use of your list.
Remember, you can always share you list with competitors, if GM doesn’t want it.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:14 am)I think this territory is what the politicians call “fly over country”.
+3
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:22 am)I am also on the 50K + GM-Volt waiting list and I have a little different viewpoint. I am of the import generation, for good or bad. I have mostly driven Toyota’s, Honda’s (currently have my 95 still running solid), one Dodge van and one Ford Probe (with Mazda engine). I am not necessarily a fan of the bail-out, but I have this great faith in GM that they will prevail and the Volt will be the start of a new generation! I am holding out, saving my money for the Volt, and will purchase it as soon as possible (although talking my wife into that purchase amount is my biggest challenge!). And yes, I understand very well the whole concept of the Volt.
GM needs to look at this list long and hard and realize there are potential ‘New’ customers like me. My entire family and friend base already knows about the Volt primarily because of me, and from a marketing standpoint, what better way to get middle America excited than by the ‘average’ person being this excited.
GM marketing guys, please take a look at our list!
+2
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:24 am)I believe that is the work of photoshop.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:28 am)The list is probably just something they want ownership of. If people signed up in Lyle’s list, I’m sure they will sign up on the first one available to them from GM.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:37 am)Mr. Henderson’s company nearly evaporated last year. From what we’ve seen, he is making decisions that are decidedly in the interest of keeping his company running. This means taking very little risk and not heading down any paths to nowhere.
There is less risk in producing a low volume of EREV. Albeit in the face of mounting offerings from competition. Highway capable electric car manufacturing is new to all of the big brands. China and Japan have announced intention to build 50,000 units each (or more) per year starting in 2011. South Korea can not be far behind with EV truck production.
NGMCO has a big loan to pay back. Selling a Volt at $39,500 isn’t going to do much toward this goal. It’s safer to sacrifice future EV market share and to continue with the Traverse, Equinox, Camaro theme. The government loans were not connected to any fine print demanding EV production.
This being true. The question looms. Which EV will you drive in 2012?
=D~
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:43 am)I also signed up for email dumps from the official GM sites. Cover all the bases so to speak.
I am amazed that they are ignoring the ‘south coast’ (Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth, Austin, San Antonio, etc.) The home of Dell and NASA has some very intelligent people that can ‘understand’ this car.
We also understand ‘launch’!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:47 am)This may seem like a silly nit to pick but wouldn’t giving the list to GM violate the privacy policy of this web site? This site is not affiliated with GM and Lyle promises that the information will not be distributed.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:47 am)its only 2009 and people are already getting pissed off, can you imagine 2010 with only 10k Volts running around?. There will be many many articles and reviews on the Volt and YOU cant get one, or even get to see it.
This must be the reason Toyota does not pre-announce anything.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:51 am)Ooh a veiled threat, I like it. I bet Nissan would be interested.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:59 am)hi Herm … the point being that although the Volt will not be available for wide spread public purchase. The Volt may be able to stand on it’s own as THE car worth waiting for. This is obviously the force in play here. I truly wish NGMCO the best with this strategy.
=D~
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:59 am)“Fly over country” . . . until they want to appear sympathetic to those poor simpletons waay down below the contrails of the G-V they’re riding in, THEN it’s called “The Heartland”.
Heartland . . . I hate that word.
+2
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:03 am)I would argue that the list is not all that important to marketing people once the car goes on sale to the general public. People on the list are not going to sit on their hands and wait for GM to call them up. If you are serious about buying a Volt, you will seek one out for yourself whether you are on the list or not.
+2
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:10 am)That is what I have believed about Volt V1.0 all along. 60,000 cars in the first two years is a drop in the bucket.
This has been a halo car from the start. Bob Lutz thinks that way.
I think it is a great idea.
1. They should not plan on making 1 million of these things because they are a money loser. The 1 millioin Volts should be planned for V2.0 which will be better and hopefully cheaper.
2. This makes GM green and others green with envy. Picture the large 75 foot inflateable gorilla next to your local chevy dealer holding a sign that says “Chevy Volt, 230 mpg”. People stop to look, and if they are lucky they will see a demo Volt that is not for sale. Next, they look over and see the Chevy Cruze at half the price and with the 41 mpg sticker on it. Maybe that will do, or a Malibu, or an Equinox.
The bottom line is that most of us will not be able to buy an E-REV from GM until 2013 or beyond.
+2
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:14 am)Brian,
I agree in principle but in reality, they don’t need to. !0,000 cars in the first year will sell anyway. After that, the people on the list will proactivly order a Volt if they want one. The list is really not necessary.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:19 am)But it is plugged in to the passenger side which would make sense if we charge at a street station but I only see 1 charge point on the car and it is on the driver side–maybe there should be 2.
Roy
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:25 am)I would authorize Lyle to give my information to GM if it allowed me to purchase a Volt in early 2011 or so. I can’t wait much longer and if the coasts are the only place getting them I’ll probably have to look at an electric vehicle from another company.
I can’t imagine a company not honoring or even contacting 50,000 potential customers. 50,000 people willing to purchase! Whirlpool, GE, Sony et al would die to have 50,000 willing customers ready to buy their products. To ignore them or not offer them a chance to be early adopters will put many a sour taste in many a mouth. GM won’t be able to do much to fix hard feelings once they screw up.
+5
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:26 am)Throwing away a list of 50,000 eager customers is just bad business. They should at least get the opportunity to re-apply on GM’s “official list” if possible.
I have no idea how many cars our dealership will get; if they will allow pre-orders; pricing; and if there will be any markups – whether it is allowed by GM or not.
I do know that initial conversations with our General Manager suggested that if GM did allow markups on a VOLT, that he would choose not to for better PR reasons. (take that for what it’s worth, but I think he was sincere). I have a strong feeling that GM will restrict what dealers can do with the VOLT because THEY cannot afford a ton of bad press after receiving bailouts. That’s just my guess.
I still monitor the GM ordering system for any info on pre-ordering a VOLT. If something comes in, I will report it.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:26 am)Joe,
I would not disagree with that. In fact, I would include the entire strip from Greater Boston to Richmond as part of the “coast.”
I believe that Herman Kahn once referred to this as “BosWash.”
Respectfully,
Dr. Ibringdoh
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:26 am)Does your local GM dealer’s sales and service department understand the Volt? Does your local dealer WANT to understand a “one-off”, one model, limited quantity vehicle? Also, I would guess many of these dealers see the Volt as a model with an uncertain future.
Not speaking for myself…but not everyone has caught the Volt excitement. Also based on forum(s) for the Prius, Toyota dealers in rural areas still struggle with servicing the hybrids correctly after 10 years in the US.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:26 am)http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569217,00.html
Take Care
Arch
+2
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:27 am)Agreed. The focus sharpness of various parts of the foreground are inconsistent, and the car’s shadow looks all wrong. The reflections off the windshield seem inconsistent with its surroundings and the color of the sky, as well.
Plus (as RDOCA mentions below) the plug’s on the wrong side. I doubt (but hope!) we’ll get two.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:29 am)I agree Lyle’s list is unnecessary for selling the Volt, but it would make a nice target for some literature on the (affordable, available) Cruze while the Volt is in very limited production. Sometime around a year from now, I think.
I’d rather they didn’t, mind you. I’m just trying to think like salesmen do.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:29 am)Probably need to add DC. Payback to the Politicians that funded GM.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:33 am)It would violate the privacy policy of this website if they started handing over names and email addresses of posters. Presumably, people sign on to the *want* list because they want to be in line to purchase a Chevy Volt.
Respectfully,
Dr. Ibringdoh
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:34 am)Good golly, that seems like a long time already.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:35 am)They said Volt will be here in Vancouver for Olumpics – so i assume volt will be in Vancouver with in 112 days.
The best part is its not only volt. Leaf,Imiev etc are also going to be here on the winter games
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:35 am)The way you expoid the list is by contacting the people on the list and give them a 1 week window to get on the official list before you open it up to everybody.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:37 am)If they haven’t been, already.
+2
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:40 am)Why is everyone saying that GM should “work with” the GM-volt wish list, when GM doesn’t sell direct to ANY consumers? They sell to dealers, and dealers sell to consumers. GM doesn’t sell direct with any “elite” car; not Caddys, notVettes. They don’t do it at all.
That’s not to say they couldn’t figure out a way to keep list members in the loop. They could send out emails to the members keeping them apprised of Volt deliveries to dealers. Or they could set up a portion of their website so you could enter your zip code and find out Volt deliveries to nearby dealers within a given radius. But beyond that, there isn’t much GM can do.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:40 am)My thoughts exactly.
“We have not started a waiting list, because we don’t want anyone waiting at this time.”
Uh, what? Why wouldn’t you want to get people locked in on your product? Take (refundable) deposits as a show of commitment, provide a (rough) ETA for delivery, get folks on the books while they’re still amped up about your product. What is to be gained by ensuring everyone is a “free agent” for as long as possible? Doesn’t this just increase the likelihood that they’ll drift to some other product?
Granted, I’m not in marketing, but I just don’t understand this quote.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:43 am)Yeah, I thought that wording was a little funny too. I guess its sort of a double entendre. They’re going to pick pockets in a literal (market segment) and figurative ($40k MSRP) sense.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:44 am)How hard is it to email everyone on the list. It would take one guy about 5 minutes. That being said.
I believe GM will be able to make them faster once LG Chem gets its cell factory in Michigan built. They might be waiting on that before they can go full steam. NYC is a terrible first roll out place because there are so how many people could conveniently charge it at home in their garage? Maybe those out in the country. One thing is for sure, if gas prices start climbing at 20 cents/week and go back to $4+/gallon in 2011 (like they did in May-July 2008), people will be beating the doors down at the Chevy dealerships no matter where they live.
The Nissan LEAF is going to steal all of the electric demand before Chevy can get there.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:46 am)I assume that the people that took the time and interest to list their name if not more than to show support for the concept should be taken serious. Unfortunately, the NEW GM has leadership that seems to think of money in the same ole way. We are not the ones that can make decisions on the VOLTEC program and it sounds to me as the executive management doesn’t seem to care for the program that much.
Of course, us non-people could be discounted as just a fluke and people that would just put their name on anything. Get the VOLTEC built and built correctly and get some informtion out to the public and quit talking so much. Everytime you say something you kill interest.
We want to see a good US built product at a good affordable price that we can be proud of and if you can’t do that put it away for, someone else will do it. Don’t forget to give yourself a big bonus for your efforts.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:47 am)I agree that training is needed, but since they still have over a year before the release, this should not really be an issue.
If they have two training teams, they could have two sessions in each state and be finished in plenty of time…..
Or take a tech from each dealership that will invest in being a Volt dealer and send them to Michigan for a week of training.
But the way for the dealerships to decide if they should become a dealer for these new cars is to take pre-orders. If my local dealer had a dozen people willing to put down deposits a full year in advance of the release, they would sure sign up with Chevy for the Volt program, don’t you think???
JMHO
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:47 am)Herm,
Not a veiled threat, just a distillation of everyone’s position.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:49 am)Here’s a clip taken directly from a competitors web page.
“________ will release a consumer version of its zero-emission, freeway-speed, green vehicle in 2010. If you would like to be added to our mailing list and be one of the first in your area to own a ________, please complete the form below.”
=D~
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:53 am)Lyle,
We recently saw a news report about several electronic accident avoidance systems that are coming out on some new cars. Will the Volt include some of these?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:55 am)Living here in the middle of the USA I guess I can forget about Volt for a long long time. 2020?
By that time there will be so many plug-in vehicles available Volt will be but a memory. Like the Wright Brothers airplane.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:56 am)Hears the deal. If GM wants to ignore Texas I guess I’ll be forced to buy a Ford hybrid product. I want to pay cash for a Volt and have supported GM through thick and thin, including losing much on their stock when they went into bankruptcy. Disrespecting the GM diehards who want a Volt would be one of the last nails in their coffin. I want to see them turn this opportunity into a smashing success but you can’t repeatedly take advantage of your customer base while giving nothing in return.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:58 am)But once you start making exceptions, where does it stop????
And I am still trying to figure out why GM thinks the east & west coasts are so special to get the initial production run. The last time I looked, my money spends just the same as that in CA or NY.
And they don’t even have to spend any advertising money to get me into the dealership to buy, so it is more profitable to them by default.
The best advertising is still word of mouth. If we early adopters praise the heck of of these cars, then GM will have to increase the production run of the 2012 model year, just to keep up with demand. I just think it would be better to have Volts driving in all the states, not just two or three.
JMHO
+5
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:59 am)old man
I fully agree. What Fritz should have said was “We at gm will work with our dealers to go down the gm-volt list in order as soon as we can and we will get a Volt to every person on the list as fast as we possibly can.”
If he had said that it would not have committed gm to anything really, but it would have had a whole different tone. Instead of telling us that we don’t count, it would have been a statement that would have said “we at gm are doing our best to get every one of you a Volt as soon as we can.” The latter would have had a whole different tone and message, a lot better than “buzz off.” And, of course, experiment or not, every Volt sold brings money in the door, which for gm is timely and very nice indeed.
Volts are going to be in high demand for a short time as novelty items. Then they are going to have to be sold as real cars, and word of mouth is very very important in that second phase.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:59 am)GM can limit markups from the dealers?.. how so since the dealers own the cars?
What GM needs to do is to make sure many dealers have demo Volts that cant be sold. Otherwise we will never get to test drive one.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:01 am)You know, that *does* point out the advantage of having a charge port on both sides of the vehicle…
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:03 am)“In an interview on FoxNews.com’s Fox Car Report LIVE! webcast, Volt Vehicle Line Director, Tony Posawatz revealed that the fuel economy will be “better than any conventional car, and we’re trying to figure out how close, or if it will actually be better than any hybrids.”
They are talking about the CS mode mpg.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:04 am)Ted in Fort Meyers,
I’m with you, is this what we get for staying with this sight for two years? What a kick in the pants!! I’m in the first 10k for whatever that means now.
Mr. Fritz Henderson needs to know this is not AT&T with a captive market. I have a 2008 Escape and was waiting for the VOLT. I believe I’ll just stay with Ford and purchase another Escape, only a hybrid this time. GM is not the only game in town, My wife has a Cad and will be trading in 2010 to Lincoln.
God Bless America,
Tom
+2
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:04 am)There are about 5000 dealers and only about half this many will be made in 2010. In fact there are only about 2 per dealer through the whole 2011 model year. So gm is logically going to concentrate sales in only a few places, so as to make it worth while for the dealerships to equip the shop and train the techs. In the meantime, the rest of us will learn to like the leaf….
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:06 am)Maybe they could start a new business model, sell the cars directly to the public, perhaps charge about $5k more than they sell it to the dealers for.. gotta protect your dealer network.
That may not be allowed either by state law.. but perhaps in certain states.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:06 am)carcus –> put the link in quotes.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:07 am)If you want to get nitpicky, Michigan has more coastline than any other state.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:08 am)If FL is one of the states on the initial rollout list, I suppose I could just change my address to my other home in Boca Raton. But that sure seems dumb to me, just to buy a car……………..
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:09 am)gm gave up and closed the ebay program.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:10 am)RB:
I can understand your frustration, but with this particular car, I don’t see GM having much of another option in marketing it. By keeping volumes low in the first year or 2, they can build a sort of mystique around it. The car will be hard to find and expensive to buy. The well-connected with deep pockets will be privied to the early batches. We need this to happen because the early adopters can afford the extraordinary cost of the car. GM needs to watch the early cars like hawks as well to nip any problems that will crop up in the bud. By rolling out small numbers, GM can keep ample tabs on the cars to ensure they are working as promised. We’ve already heard Frank Weber and others say that the Gen 2 drivetrain is already considerably less expensive in nature vs. then the Gen. 1. I think Gen. 1 by all intents and purposes can be viewed as a huge experiment or giant learning tool for GM. It won’t be until Gen. 2 or even Gen. 3 that the public will be offered something that is close to being a competitive, affordable product for the masses. This is the natural progression of a new technology entering the market and the Volt will more than likely follow in those same footsteps. On the bright side, the sooner the cars are on the road and in people’s hands, the sooner the Volts for the masses will follow. This stuff all takes time, but we are getting there. Chin up.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:10 am)carcus1 — ROTFLOL. Thanks.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:13 am)Rashiid:
OMG, I’m honored by your words. It means a lot, coming from you.
Obviously, I agree with you completely regarding the GM-Volt.com “wait list”. I am convinced that they could instantly sell out the first two years’ production to folks on the list. They could probably get deposits and sell them all right now. I would think that any car company would see such a list as solid gold, made up of loyal, committed followers of the car, who are showing a high level of interest way before the thing is even available.
I am certain that GM will end up using this list as a valuable marketing tool, all in the fullness of time.
I felt like I had to scroll for about 1/2 hour to get to the end of the replies to your comment. First for the day, and with as many replies as I can ever remember seeing. Not bad!
LJGTVWOTR!!
+3
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:13 am)As you say, RDOCA: “….it is plugged in to the passenger side which would make sense if we charge at a street station…” If anyone at GM notices this and adds a passenger-side charging socket it’ll make this entire day’s post worthwhile!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:13 am)I believe that Lyle has always made it clear that the list could be conveyed to gm (only).
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:14 am)Arch
What’s happening with geothermal?
All installed? Do you like it?
RB
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:16 am)Dave K
You want to tell us whose page it was, or should we look on our own?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:16 am)kdawg, 8:24 am:
You beat me to it, LOL. In addition to being a neurosurgeon and a champion blogger, Dr. Dennis is getting so good with Photoshop he might be able to have a 3rd career doing that.
I wonder what Mr. Agassi would think of that? I guess it’s all good??
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:17 am)Larry:
True that!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:19 am)Or Apple. Sucks to be GM eh, actually having a desirable product in the pipeline?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:24 am)Last post for today…I promise. Off to the golf course soon. Great topic today. Good going Lyle.
Our local condo association requires garaged cars to be parked nose facing in. This results in a 50/50 split for access to the two (side wall) 110v outlets. My 110v outlet is where the Volt passenger side front wheel is located. My neighbor has his outlet on the driver side. Toss a coin. And “yes” I have contacted the association about installing 220v throughout the entire association garage system.
=D~
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:27 am)What did you expect signing up on a 3rd party website that has no affiliation with GM whatsoever? As great as this site is, its not GMs site and I’ve said all along they would never use the list. They simply can’t for a number of reasons including legally.
That being said, if GM really wanted to start a wait list they could launch one at any time and start taking actual deposits. That would seperate the truly interested from the fantasy crowd.
Of the 50,000 on the current “want list” I would estimate you had maybe 500-1,000 buyers max, when the rubber hits the road.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:28 am)I wonder how much Toyota, Ford or even Chrysler would pay GM-Volt.com for that list? The 50K on the list may not be a heck of a lot but it is a list of people very interested in new technology used to reduce dependence on oil. If GM really wants to avoid using the list but still keep the people on the list interested then something like a lottery of 50 Volt’s should go to the people on the list. Starting at the top of a randomized name list, the first 50 to come up with an approved loan get their Volt. For GM to ignore the list, I must agree with the majority of those who have posted – ignore = stupid move.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:29 am)All this talk of 2010 Volts confuses me. Won’t these 2010 models be NOT available for sale to the general Pat Q Public? If that is true, what’s the big whoha?
If GM will not use the wiating list here, then that’s just a kick in the nuts for all who are faithful and kind to GM.
/strappin my cup on…..
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:30 am)Rashiid Amul, 7:47 am:
One thought might be that they would sell the first few in areas with high market penetration of existing hybrids. That might be an indication of the percentage of potential “early adopters” In a geographical area.
Is that New York and LA? I dunno, but there are one heck of a lot of Priuses in SoCal for sure. Fair is fair. If they had some sort of rational explanation for it, I wouldn’t hold it against them if they sold the first 10,000 in “The Heartland”, Fort Meyers, Houston, or wherever else they got the most downstream marketing bang for the buck.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:31 am)Nope. Most likely you saw that on a Toyota commercial.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:32 am)So why not make those 1,000 easy sales?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:32 am)I think more of 2012, but you are correct still. There will be a flood of choices, especially in BEV’s. I think 2011 there will be some PHEV’s from major OEM’s.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:36 am)best podcast interview I have ever seen on the Volt, check it out..the interviewer must be a reader of this list, seems well informed..several firm statements by Tony:
1. a couple of drivers got 40 mile electric range (in the recent 5 state tour), but range does vary.
2. The ice will work in a stepped “sweet spot mode”, the ice will stop on occasion.. no loud rev-ups
3. The ice will be imperceptible
4. at the 4:39 spot, regarding ICE control by the driver “due to the unique regulatory environment the customer selectable features will be somewhat minimal”
5. brake regen will be driver adjustable, it will also have a mode that emulates normal cars.
6. CS mode mpg: “better than any conventional car in its class”
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:38 am)2 things worth repeating
(although talking my wife into that purchase amount is my biggest challenge!)
My entire family and friend base already knows about the Volt primarily because of me ~~ and people like me on this list
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:38 am)carcus1:
Yeah, I’m no big fan of Carlos Ghosn, but you’ve got to give him credit for guts on the Leaf deal. They must be all in for $billion +, and totally going for it.
I can’t see it myself, but more power to him if he can make it work.
Of course, we taxpayers are giving him quite a bit of help. Are we the greatest, or what?
+3
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:45 am)nuclearboy:
Yeah, but how can it possibly do any good to disrespect tens of thousands of loyal potential customers? My mother used to say, “If you can’t say anything nice, just don’t say anything at all.”
I mean, what would it have cost him to say something like, “We appreciate the loyal interest of the GM-Volt.com wait list folks, and will do our best to find a way to include them in our marketing and introduction plans.” It doesn’t commit him to anything, and we would feel a lot better.
I have to agree with Brian. GM still has a lot of cultural baggage. I mean, arrogance would seem to go by the wayside with bankruptcy and taxpayer bailout, but evidently not completely.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:47 am)RB:
I don’t know if I would go that far, but I hear you. I might go in to kick the tires of the Cruze, or the Spark if it ever shows up, but I’m not gonna buy anything.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:47 am)Arch,
This is a great interview that should be viewed by all.
Great Link.
Some notes I picked up.
Engine RPM does not respond to pedal. It will run at sweet spots for efficiency.
Only a few drivers have acheived 40 mile electric range.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:47 am)If you think about it not every single of the 5000 dealers need to have one. Let say a volt test drive within a reasonable driving distance. Maybe 500 volts, that is about 10 cars per state.
Even a touring group of volts around the country stoping at each dealership to offer test rides would be fine by me. Not everyone if fortunate to live in these focus areas.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:48 am)“But he added that the software that controls the car’s powertrain is still being tweaked, and a final number is still to come.”
Wait a minute, then what was that 100MPG highway they announced along with the 230MPG city?
Did they lie to us?
“better than any conventional car in its class”
So, what ICE car is in it’s class? I say a Civic or Corolla. A 2009 Civic gets ~40mpg highway.
http://www.edmunds.com/honda/civic/2009/review.html
A Corolla gets ~35MPG highway
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2009-toyota-corolla-13.htm
Technically if the Volt gets 45MPG, i’m fine with it.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:50 am)Herm:
Yeah, but Toyota wasn’t desperately trying to get billions of dollars from the Feds to ward off total collapse. Half of the reason for the Volt was to create a green halo to help with same. They didn’t have a choice.
Rashiid:
So much for me getting an early Volt, LOL.
+3
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:51 am)Joe:
You took the words right out of my mouth. I can only agree.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:52 am)It is a photoshop pic (a GREAT art concept!), though it would be a great idea if the 2 (Better Place, and GM) would get along and design the volt with a changeable battery.
Some think Shai Agassi is some middle-easterner who wants to play Jr. OPEC. Can’t a guy make some money for his ideas? I’m sure people will be hatin’ but the point stands.
The CEO blowing off the wait list like some little kid who could really care less about Lyle or this site is disturbing. After all Lyle has tried to do to promote the Volt, and gets an answer like this……… I’d be damned if I bought one now..
But really, it shouldn’t be so surprising though. GM never really wanted to produce it to begin with, until Lyle got promoting what GM “could” porduce, and what GM “will” produce is another story..
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:55 am)At the very least when the time comes to sell the car, GM can send all on this waiting list a sales contract to sign and return back within 10 days. Basically, they would be telling us that it’s now put up or shut up time.
I suppose their hesitation has to do with, among other things, selling a Volt to someone out of service range of the first dealers who are able to be successfully schooled in supporting the Volt. Given the shaky position the company is in, I wouldn’t blame them for being extra careful with making sure every Volt sold is able to be fully supported within its area.
+3
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:58 am)I’m more than happy to take everyone’s order.
But, as some of you have pointed out, 50,000 orders but only 12,500 cars makes for a lot of angry/disappointed people.
GM announced deliveries of Camaros would start in April this year and we started taking deposits in the previous October. As we know, the ‘re-alignment’ of GM killed the on-time deliveries and I got plenty of angry phone calls on that.
It is a double-edged sword. I’ll take the orders, but I’m not looking forward to the angry phone calls if they don’t come in as planned.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:59 am)CorvetteGuy:
As to monitoring the ordering system, that’s really great. Thanks. I’d give you +10 if I could, but that’s the best I can do at the moment, LOL.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:03 am)Nevada wins on coast line, we just dont have any water!
Lots of sand though.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:07 am)I’m gonna take a SWAG at your question. If you look at some population numbers, or better yet, open this pic…
http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov//1438/earth_lights_lrg.jpg
Where would you sell your product? I would sell where there are the most lights.
But that’s jus me.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:09 am)“As great as this site is, its not GMs site”
Oh boy it’s not “GM’s site. If it were, you’d need a Defibrillator to wake it up. It’s a dead site man.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:09 am)JMHO
I ordered my Tahoe in about Sept. for a announced Oct.- Nov. delivery. I ended up getting the Tahoe from another dealer in April. As was explained to me all training was done at a regional training center which meant Denver for the Rocky Mountain region. This was a major bottle neck and no cars would be delivered until after training. My dealer told me the queue was 3 -4 mos. long.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:12 am)“Hears the deal. If GM wants to ignore Texas I guess I’ll be forced to buy a Ford hybrid product”
That is your 100% right to do so my friend. That’s why this is America and God bless!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:13 am)I know. My city is one of those where the Leaf is going to be test marketed. I need more range than the Leaf offers, though, and I don’t need two vehicles.
Most likely I’ll be getting a Fusion Hybrid either next year or the year after.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:13 am)My prediction is based on:
a) Washington is holding the puppet strings of GM. The VOLT represents the “Green Jobs Policy” of the Obama Administration. With all the money “given” to GM and Chrysler, it would look bad for the President if dealers were gouging customers on this pet project. Especially since the customer is paying higher taxes just for the ‘opportunity’ to own one.
b) Dealer Agreements can be modified… i.e. GM shut DOWN plenty of dealers against their wishes. Some of those were even profitable!
c) Car sales in general suck so f””n bad right now, I doubt dealers could afford the added weight of bad press about the VOLT.
d) The only customer getting a huge markup from me is Arnold Schwarzenegger as a small payback for raising taxes and fees that is killing the car business (and the entire economy) in Kah-lee-forn-yah”.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:13 am)nuclearboy:
I said it yesterday. Arch is The King Of Links in my book. Welcome back Arch!!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:13 am)Ditto here in Louisiana! Although I’d be willing to pick up my new Volt (my wife thinks that I’m buying it for her – don’t tell her
in Dallas or Houston if they want to sell in Texas only. I drive a Prius for work, and bought my wife a Prius. I can’t wait any longer to replace the work Prius, so I’m waiting on delivery of a Ford Fusion Hybrid. The longer GM takes to make the Volt available to anyone who has the money, the more lost sales opportunities they’ll have. We all know where that leads us back to… 
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:14 am)I agree, many signed up when the SWAG price was said to be in the “$30,000.00, now at $43,000.00 I say 25% will shut up.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:17 am)Jim in PA:
I’m sure that, if they did what you suggest, everone would be quite happy. Why couldn’t they forward the list to dealers in our areas as a source of marketing leads as well?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:18 am)I don’t want it and I don’t need it. I am my own carbon unit accident avoidance system, thank you very much.
KISS
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:19 am)______________________________________________________
Mr. Fritz Henderson,
First let me say I appreciate the strong support GM continues to put behind the Voltec Program.
You statement “While we really appreciate the strong initial interest, we do not expect to work from the unofficial waiting list” with all due respect contradicts itself from where I’m sitting.
The better thing for you to have said is something along the lines that GM is looking into a way of allocating (say 250) pre-order vouchers that Lyle could apply to the GM-Volt.com Want List (first in first out method) . That kind of action on GM’s part is how GM demonstrates that they “really appreciate the strong initial interest” that the GM-Volt.com site has generated. That would be what I would do if I owned GM….oh wait….I forgot….I do own GM!!!…
Sincerely,
A GM Shareholder (American Taxpayer)
_____________________________________________________
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:37 am)If you ship the VOLT equally across the nation for 2011, there will be 200 cars per state. California has 58 counties. Hum… that averages less than 4 cars in each county!
Tesla does it right. Money talks. Handing over the deposit money gets you on a numbered list and it doesn’t matter where you live. Model S deliveries start in 2011.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:38 am)Good link Arch.
I’m sticking with my predictions:
Real world: 30 to 40 AER (much closer to 30 if it’s highway speed and A/C on), 30 to 35 mpg. Still vague and open to debate, but I’d say Posawatz’s comments seem to confirm these.
/I don’t think he’d make the “conventional car” comparison if the mpg was getting close to that of of an Inisght or Prius, he’d just hit the hybrid comparison right off the bat.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:38 am)230city, 150combined, 100hwy.. using epa statistical trickery.
CS mode (both city/hwy) 62.5mpg
Volt is a midsize class right?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:47 am)Looks like Fritz is blowing it already. This site and the good will it generates is in part responsible for the keen interest in Volt already.
Without a guy like Bob Lutz around to push the envelope – we can expect a guvmn’t agent like fritz to tank the whole show.
GM was better off with Rick and Bob running a public company. Sad.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:48 am)Capt the Honda Civic is a subcompact, the Corolla is a compact.. best place to compare car specs side by side is:
” http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm ”
Ford Fusion is a midsize and is rated 31hwy
Oct 23rd, 2009 (11:55 am)” I don’t think he’d make the “conventional car” comparison if the mpg was getting close to that of of an Inisght or Prius, he’d just hit the hybrid comparison right off the bat. ”
You are probably right, but:
Unless they are getting ready for a marketing tsunami come sept 2010.. they gotta hold back some news for when they actually start to sell these things.
“Chevy Volt, first 40 miles gas free, 62.5mpg afterwards”
most likely there is no way you could keep something like that secret for a whole year, too many people working on these cars.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:05 pm)The only way a car company can survive these days is build a great product and develope owner loyalty. If you look at the stats. in failures /hundred American made cars Buick and Malibu are right up there with Toyota and Honda as per JD Powers. The problem lies in owner loyalty buyers are less likely to accept problems in American made cars than the others. GM has lost the benifit of the doubt and doesn’t look like they are trying to get it back. They need to lose ther air of arrogance and develope one of humility. It seems like GM has a great Technical staff its there managment that holding them back. While its true they will sell there first 10k units with ease and more. Why should should we worried about a bunchs of techno geeks on a waiting lists attitude could cost them a lot. If I’m going to have to wait until 2013 before I can buy one I might have to check out the competion.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:14 pm)You hate Heartland.
I hate politicians.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:18 pm)NP,
You are exactly correct.
“If you can’t say anything nice, just don’t say anything at all.”
I think that GM does not need the gm-volt list for such a limited run of vehicles, but, you are right in pointing out that they should have commended Lyle for the llst and probably done something to get the list to dealers.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:19 pm)I respectfully disagree.
The Nissan LEAF is a BEV.
I don’t see that stealing anything with its limited range.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:23 pm)Ya Noel. You just blew it. lol
Now you are in the same boat as me.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:25 pm)Question. Would GM’s franchise with its dealers allow it to prioritize people on that list? Because I thought it was basically up to the dealers to sell to whomever they want to.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:31 pm)List or no list, most will have to wait until 2013 or later to buy one.
I base this on my recent experience with the 2010 Chevy Equinox.
They started making them in late May at CAMI. I saw one in August and decided to buy. I gave up looking for them and ordered one in late September (I still don’t know when I will get it). I think they sold about 13,000 cars in August according to cars.com and probably more than 60,000 so far.
My point in all of this is that even though they have made more of these than GM will produce of the Volt in two years, they are hard to get. Most dealers in my area do not have a 2010 Equinox. I worked for a few weeks just to find one to test drive.
Also, I look for them on the road and have yet to see a 2010 Equinox.
What I have learned from this is that 60,000 cars is a small number in this country when demand is high.
The Volts 10,000 unit run in the first year will be gone. Ordering one may take 6 months or more if you can get on the list.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:31 pm)All that being the case, why introduce the vehicle as a Chevy and not a Buick or Cadillac? I thought the idea behind making it a Chevy was to make it a high volume vehicle for the masses.
Another way of looking at this is the GM is minimizing volumes in order to minimize their losses should something not go as planned with this vehicle. It speaks to a lack of confidence. I would not be horribly astonished if Fisker or some other company had a high volume EREV on the market before GM.
Respectfully,
Dr. Ibringdoh
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:33 pm)I don’t think GM has a choice given that dealerships are going to need special training before they are able to service the Volt.
if they sell the Volt only in certain areas, they only have to train a certain number of dealers. Ahd they can guarantee those dealers more Volts than they could if they were doing a nation-wide roll out. So it’s worth it to the dealer to go through the training. I think that will benefit the customer as well. (This way the dealer isn’t necessarily always learning on your car. He’ll have more experience when the car needs a part replaced, etc.)
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:35 pm)CorvetteGuy,
Do you see an issue with training the dealers and service people on the Volt?
Thanks,
Rashiid
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:39 pm)Lyle, feel free to give GM my email address if it gets me a Volt.
Thank you.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:41 pm)Noel Park,
” I am convinced that they could instantly sell out the first two years’ production to folks on the list. They could probably get deposits and sell them all right now.”
Unfortunately if some of the earlier comments here are correct then that could easily violate GM franchise agreements with dealers, plus violate state franchise laws and could qualify for lawsuits in all 50 states and an enquiry by congress.
From what was written about the Camaro list, the many dealer sales had precedence over folks on the lists and customers got really angry waiting.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:42 pm)It’s not allowed in any state in the US. Maybe in Canada?
Regardless, it seems rather counterproductive to me. One of the major benefits to GM for the Volt is the “halo” effect. People will go to the dealership to look at the Volt even if they don’t want to buy it. Then they might wind up with a Malibu or an Equinox. If they cut out the dealer–no halo sales.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:46 pm)Requires garaged cars to be parked nose facing in??!? WTF? Why should they care, especially if you close the garage door?
Oh, I forgot. It’s a condo ass’n rules. HOAs and CAs are a PITA! In fact, I’d go so far as to paraphrase Bobby Boucher’s mother: “Homeowners’ associations are the DEVIL!!“
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:47 pm)50,000 people and 10,000 cars? And that doesn’t include the general public or interest stirred up by planned GM ads or gas prices going up. (see Puerto Rico)
If I was holding that list when you guys came looking for your cars I’d want to be locked in an armored car with my life insurance paid up!!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:48 pm)Must… resist… URGE TO … make … JOKE about…. salesmen … thinking!!
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:48 pm)Better off? They went bankrupt. I don’t think you can do any worse than that.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:49 pm)Those high on Lyle’s better hurry, or they’ll be lower on the official one though.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:55 pm)None of means that there won’t be mark-ups. Although if GM have the power to prevent it, they’d be crazy not to do it..
a)Washington is basically irrelevant to the mark-up question. Yes. I’m sure they’d prefer no mark-ups. But congress isn’t about to pass a law on a specific car. For one thing, they’ve got way too much else on their plate.
b)GM shut down those dealers when they were in ch.11 bankruptcy proceedings . That changes all of the rules. Now that they’re out of bankrupty they can’t do that any more. I understand that they modified the franchise agreements while in Ch.11. But I doubt it gave them that kind of power.
c) the US auto market was even worse a couple of months ago. And that didn’t stop dealers from charging huge mark-ups on the Camaro. I agree that it’s bad PR. But a lot of dealers clearly don’t care.
d)lol about Arnold Schwarzenagger.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (12:58 pm)He is really Buckaroo Banzai
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:03 pm)EXACTLY!!!!
Much of those features make me question if you should even drive if you need those kinds of assistance….lol
KISS!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:04 pm)If Texas is going to be ignored, then Gawd help us poor SOBs in Wisconsin.
On soooo many levels….
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:05 pm)I don’t have an answer for that yet.
As soon as they tell me who, what, where, when, why… I’ll get back to you.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:05 pm)Man, you got that right, Jack.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:06 pm)If Philadephia is on the coast so is Cleveland.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:07 pm)I think any major manufacturer is going to start out slow when they have a new product. 10,000 for 2011 is a reasonable number for something this new. And I’m sure GM can scale up if the demand is there.
China is in a different situation. It’s a goverment. Not a company. So they do what’s best for the whole country, not just what’s going to make a profit in the short term. And, oil independence is very much in China’s best interset. As is minimizing air polution. (hHich is alreasy a severe problem in China.) They also want to have a domestic auto industry, and they see EVs as the easiest way to accomplish that. And since they own most of the means of production, they can deliver. And they don’t have to worry about making a profit or losing money for the first ten years. Or ever actually. As long as they’re making money on other things.
As far as Japan–Nissan decided to go all in with EVs. They’re making a large bet. That’s their choice. But they’re going with BEVs, which is an inherently less complicated technology. So their risk level is lower. And they probably won’t have to iron out as many kinks in the first couple of years.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:09 pm)I really want to drive electric. I would buy a leaf here in North East Ohio if thats the only way I can drive electric.
100 miles range is enough for me most of the time, and the other times I guess I wouldn’t drive that car now would I (depending on the ability to charge along the way).
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:09 pm)If the dealer could only be promised one Volt from GM for the first two years after the release? Probably not.
As long as supply is so low, I think GM is wise to concentrate the VOlt is relatively few dealers. And preferably in those places with the largest potential demand.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:11 pm)So…everyone wants to see veiled threats distilled?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:13 pm)Most definitely. Besides the limited numbers of Volts available, I suspect another reason for the LA/NY release is to limit the training burden. The early hybrid Tahoe rollout tried to do too much too fast and GM was embarrassed.
The early Prius I had had a very limited availability and at the time service was only available in Denver, 300 miles away. With a early computer problem, Toyota trucked the Prius the distance. The local Toyota dealer said he was forbidden to even fix a balky fuel filler door. With this experience I understand the GM approach.
BTW, I have enjoyed your series of comments.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:13 pm)The training of the service people will probably start 90 days before launch. I haven’t heard when they plan to start that.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:14 pm)Thank the car gods on that!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:20 pm)Oh…OK, I’m not a car expert, that was jus a Kahlua induced guess.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:20 pm)One more thing, Herm:
If there are about 3000 Chevy Dealers remaining, I doubt each one will get a VOLT to use strictly for demo rides. Imagine how much madder everyone on this site would be if a third of the first year’s production were unavailable for sale!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:20 pm)‘The home of Dell and NASA has some very intelligent people that can ‘understand’ this car.’
Do your area dealers understand the car? Doeas GM trust them with the responsibility? See #13 for BigEd’s comments regarding dealer training and waiting.
I’d guess if GM tried to do this in every county of every state at the same time, it truly would be a “wait list” and wouldn’t be converted to a buy list for years. Would anyone wait that long? Would people feel deceived or get tired of the incompetence?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:22 pm)How can 50,000 people be early adopters when there will only be 10,000 cars?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:25 pm)Herm,
from GM’s point of view do we need to test drive them? It may be drive one take it home…who else needs to test drive it?
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:27 pm)I agree about New York City. And I live here. The garage thing probably won’t be a big deal-the condos and various garages are already offering outlets for a premium. But it certainly costs more than it would if you lived elsewhere and had your own garage. And we already pay more for electricity than almost anywhere else in the country.
Not only that, but the Volt really shines as a commuter car. . People here who have cars generally usually use them to leave the city on weekends. And, for that, we generally need to drive more than 40 miles on a given day.
Personally, I think they’ll probably go for DC for their roll out on the east coast. Lot of politicians trying to look enviromentally responsble while still supporting American manufacturing. And everyone I know who works in DC at least has a car.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:28 pm)good point Laura
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:29 pm)LauraM
It is one thing to mark up a ‘performance car’ that is designed to go really fast… it’s another thing to place big mark ups on a car specifically designed to SAVE the customer money at the pump.
I don’t speak for all dealers, obviously, but if the car saves you $1500 per year in gas, but the dealer marks it up $3000 over sticker, that makes for a tough sell, in addition to the customer destroying the dealership on the CSI (Customer Satisfaction Index Survey) which in turn has an effect on allocation of cars from GM.
In the case of the VOLT, I just don’t see how the dealers would consider shooting themselves in the foot by gouging. But hey, I just work here. I don’t sign the paychecks.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:32 pm)Noel,
I’m not sure I’d like 5000 dealers emailing me for new business
Well, it’s still early, maybe they will take our suggestions and make something that works. 10,000 cars 5000 dealers 50,000 on the wait list, no ad campaign yet, and gas prices are still moderate. I’m not holding my breath on this one.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:34 pm)Someone on one of the Lyle’s posts in the last few days said an accident avoidance system was available for his car through Onstar.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:41 pm)Jaime,
What are the legal limitations?
I can’t imagine there being any.
Companies use lists for marketing all the time.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:42 pm)Hey, alcarselectric has some dates and city locations for the tour of the “Catfish Car” Nissan Leaf..
http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1037047_nissan-announces-dates-for-nissan-leaf-zero-emissions-tour
Dec 1 2009 they’ll be here in Sacramento. Imma go chekitout if I could. I’ll snap some pics.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:47 pm)https://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/vehicles/retail-inquiry.php
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:51 pm)Mike:
I think it’s because lots of cars spew out a bunch of water and black carbon on cold start and leave an ugly black mark on the wall when parked headed out. Can condo owners correct me on this?
So maybe if Dave can explain the facts of life – that the car travels 40 miles before the ICE starts up, LOL – they will let him face out. Another great advantage of the Volt! No charge for the marketing suggestion GM. Or maybe they’ll just think, probably rightly, that if they let him do it all the iCE car owners will want to do it too, hehehe.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:56 pm)LauraM:
Where the heck have you been hiding? Captain Jack and I have been pining away over here. Nice to see your name.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:57 pm)All of them won’t purchase right away. Some will need more time to save up money etc. Others will want one as soon as it is offered them. The point I was making and seems to have gotten lost is that GM needs to utilize the 50,000 POTENTIAL customers first before wasting ad dollars and chasing others when they have a captive list right at their fingertips. Why run around trying to sell the car to ‘strangers’ when GM could use the wait list to court actual sales which would then result in ‘word of mouth’ advertising for free. Seems like a no brainer plan to me.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (1:59 pm)The exact rules will vary state by state but no doubt the dealers have a lot of freedom to choose. At the same time, every one wants to sell cars. That’s why Fritz should have said “We will work with our dealers to go down the gm-volt list and get everyone a car as soon as we can.” “As soon as we can” is loose enough, and including the dealers in the statement makes it broad enough.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:08 pm)Is there an Official willing to pay and put a deposit today for a $40K Volt from this site?
If so whats the total number for the list?
(ummmm didn’t GM already pick our pockets Fritz) at least your putting out some nice vehicles.
I drove a rental Chevy Malibu on business to New York and I have to say…I’m impressed….
The uneven painting, coloring whatever the proper term is of the trim across the dash going behind the spedo cluster was pure stupidity…that said it’s a great car….
Hey guys, please don’t forget the details you have zero room for error….
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:09 pm)CLEAR!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:10 pm)Not necessarily in the same order…
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:12 pm)Pictures, . .. . we’ve seen pictures.
How about a test drive and letting us all read from the “captain’s log” after you’ve taken the S.S. Catfish out of port?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:15 pm)LauraM:
There was a great link here recently to an Indian automotive website with an article about the BEV GM Spark which is about to go into production there. Go figure.
There was also an article about the Cruze, which is being introduced in India this month.
Who am I to understand these things?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:16 pm)I went on vacation. Yellowstone and Chicago. And then I had to do a lot of catch-up at work. And then we had a busy period when I had zero free time.
Thank you for the welcome back. Hopefully, I’ll have more free time for a while…
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:19 pm)Checkitout…
“Tesla Roadster, Toyota Prius and VW Touareg meet with disastrous results”
http://tinyurl.com/yk2qwgn
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:20 pm)Checkitout…
“Tesla Roadster, Toyota Prius and VW Touareg meet with disastrous results”
http://bit.ly/3pj1oG
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:23 pm)So Fritz, why are you putting the Volt on the home page of chevrolet.com if you aren’t planning to ramp up production and distribution quickly?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:27 pm)A token 250 vouchers for 50,000 on the list? The 250 would legally have to be routed to the dealers anyway and that would put Lyle in a position of picking 250 out of 50,000 that could get cars only from one of the chosen dealers.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:27 pm)jeffhre:
Well, it would be better than no dealers at all, LOL. I’m sure there is some way they could narrow it down to prospects in the dealer’s geographical area. Didn’t we furnish our hometowns, or some sort of location hints, to the “waiting list” at some point? I would do it right now, if it would solve the question which you correctly raise.
If I had 10,000 cars and a list of 50,000 hot prospects, I’m not sure how many $$$ I would be spending on an ad campaign. I know that it’s a “halo” car but, if it was effective, it would also seem to just create another large group of peolpe who are frustrated because they can’t get one.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:30 pm)This is really kind of strange.
I have a GM credit card and for years GM was sending me polls to fill and then litterature to try and sell me a car.
Now that I’m on a list stating I’m interested in this one, albeit a non official list, they will not consider these sales leads ?
I know they don’t need the list to sell the first 10,000 cars and possibly even many more. Yet, they should not dismiss potential buyers out of hand… they might appreciate my money in a couple of years when the Volt will be more available and the competition tougher.
There is an ‘old GM’ state of mind behind all this that is wrong.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:30 pm)Captain:
Did you notice that LauraM is back? I thought that would make your day.
Now, if we could only find old Muddy, the whole gang would be back together.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:30 pm)The first wave of people buying Volts aren’t going to be doing it to save money. At $40,000 MSRP, it’s highly unlikely they’ll save any money anyway. Unless the dollar really collapses, and/or Al Queda bombs the Saudi oil fields (which I don’t think they would do.).
Early adopters are buying the Volt because a)they like having the latest technology, and/or b)they want to use less gasoline for enviromental/national security reasons. And any time you have a hot car, the dealers are going to charge a mark-up. It’s the nature of the industry.
Let me put it this way–you’ve been allocated 3 Volts for 2010. You have 50 people on your waiting list. And one guy offers you $5000.00 to be put at the head of the line. Would you say no?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:31 pm)Aptera.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:32 pm)OK, but 75% of 50K is still 37,500, which is still almost 4 times the first year’s production run…..
In actuality, I would think that the number of people that would really pony up $40K for the Volt would be about 20%.
By my math, 20% of 50K is 10,000!!! Imagine that!! All cars produced in the first year can be sold, and no advertising money needs to be spent, so that all becomes cash to help the bottom line.
These big companies sure make their lives hard…..
First no blue, and now #1396 on the list means nothing. What is next? Will the battery packs have to be leased???? Or will we be told the car is too complex for us to drive, so we have to pay for a “GM trained and authorized” driver to drive us around?
And I do not see the legal problems. If I sign onto the Chevy site now, I am asked for my zip code. They then show me the dealers I can choose from. It could be the same thing with the Volt. GM gets the list, sends me an e-mail to choose a local dealer authorized for the Volt. Sale is made. Everone is happy.
What am I missing here????
I can hardly wait to see what Tag will have to say when he comes back…………….
I guess I have to change my signoff message. Here is the new version:
NPNS – No Volt Sale By Dec, 2011 – No GM Sale
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:33 pm)GM doesn’t sell cars to customers. GM sells cars to dealers and the dealers will handle all of the sales contracts. If we got contracts from GM we’d take them to dealers and the dealers would say, we won’t have any Volts this year (if they were realistic and honest) or if they were in the order system and qualified to get and serfvice Volts they would say…Get in line.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:34 pm)Off topic, but there was a really good item on allcarselectric.com yesterday about the impact of weight/mass on AER and gas mileage.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:37 pm)Captain:
LOL!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:42 pm)Seems easy enough on the surface. Send an email to wait listers explaining the process? At some point another email could say xy and z dealers have been selected, go see them before we start advertising.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:44 pm)It shouldn’t be that hard to find a workaround for that problem. I can see a few myself.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:46 pm)>> ugly black mark ont he wall
Hmm, a fascinating theory.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:48 pm)Hmmm… my previous comment was partially expurgated for some reason. It really was more complimentary in its entirety (to the other-official-site-that-shall-remain-nameless, though I don’t know why).
Somebody done edited that sucker down, though. Can’t say I’m too happy about being “edited” (that is, censored) for no good reason that I can discern. :-[
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:54 pm)No, as I stated before, GM couldn’t work out a way to make sales leads from ebay work, how are they going to make a list of 50,000 leads work? It won’t go to waste, because Nissan, for one, seems to know how to handle pre-orders, so maybe they can use the list.
There is no threat here. Just stating GM’s position and Lyle’s position.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (2:57 pm)“
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:11 pm)They did the same thing when I ranted/b|tched and moaned about all the not so good reasons for Onstar.
Yup, censorship for propaganda.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:14 pm)The most densely populated county in the US may be Pinellas, in FL.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:16 pm)I havent a clue where that pic above was taken but isn’t the charge port on the drivers side?
Or is it on both sides?
I’m gonna say it’s photo shopped because the shade in the lower quadrant of the pic don’t correlate to the rest of the shadow of the car and the view into the windshield isn’t representative of the outer rear perimeter.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:21 pm)Schmeltz on gen 1
Again you are quite possibly correct, and I think you gave a good analysis. The downside to gm’s “keep it exclusive” strategy is the following — when the Nintendo Wii first came out, along with many other people I really wanted one, but none were available. Now they are in stacks around many store doors, but as they have lost their newness I’m no longer particularly interested in the Wii.
That is, in choosing not to meet the demand while the Volt is new, gm may be losing sales they will never get back later on. Of course cars have a much longer lifetime than do computer games, but I’m not sure the interest of first adopters lasts any longer. After all, there are going to be lots of other cars that will be electric in some way.
I’m feeling frustrated today because I don’t think it is smart for gm to thumb its nose at gm-volt, but as for the availability situation I understand that it will be years and years before any are for sale where I live. The best we can hope for is a few at some demo or car show somewhere, for a day or two.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:23 pm)Same here.
I only bought imports since I started buying cars – Honda, Honda, Volks and now Nissan. To GM, I’m a potential new customer.
My entire family is aware of the Volt because of me. Even students I have are aware of it because of me. To them, this product is not for sale so it doesn’t exist.
Even my niece, who works at Ford in the HR department, was vaguely aware of the existence of the Volt. And replied that Ford was coming with a Fusion Hybrid much sooner. To them, a product not for sale is not a factor.
This product will exist and become a factor only because of early adopters / preachers as it happened for the first Prius.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:29 pm)Th!nk is still planing for products in the US. They’re finally out of BK.
http://www.ecogeek.org/automobiles/2929-thnk-car-coming-back-from-bankruptcy
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:30 pm)Noel
OK maybe I’ll go in on a Sunday night when they are closed
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:30 pm)Yeah I did, Welcome Back Miss Laura!
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:33 pm)I never say no to over sticker.
How else can I keep my reputation of being ‘pond scum’?!
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:35 pm)“The first wave of people buying Volts aren’t going to be doing it to save money.”
They’ll be the ones willing to spend their $$$ on E.A.T.
(E)arly
(A)dopters
(T)ax
“Let me put it this way–you’ve been allocated 3 Volts for 2010. You have 50 people on your waiting list. And one guy offers you $5000.00 to be put at the head of the line. Would you say no?”
I would say, “$5000 going once…….going twice…….”
P
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:37 pm)V=IR > Thank you.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:39 pm)RB Geothermal went on line July 14. It reduced my July electric bill by 25% August AC bill was down by 40%. Sept bill was 10 dollars
higher. NOW that does not take into account the $60 a month I did NOT spend on propane to heat hot water. Last year I spent $3200
on propane. This year I doubt that I will spend $200. We will have to see what cold weather will bring. So far I love the unit. The fan on it
runs 24/7. That has eliminated the temp difference between the floor
and the 10 foot ceilings. There is now just 1 degree difference. There are also no cold corners in the house. One other thing since the air
is always going through the filter there is no dust in the house. I used have to dust every other week. I have not dusted since the unit
went on line.
Take Care
Arch
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:41 pm)Add,
The volt is a compact car (not sub compact). Compact cars would include Civic, Focus, Cobalt etc… Of the compact cars I can think of, the highest mpg for “conventional” (non diesel, non hybrid) cars in this class is right around 28 or 29 mpg (city/hwy combined). This leads me to think Powsawatz’s remarks are inferring a little over 30 mpg combined.
/not to mention, the low 30′s is what I’ve been predicting for about the past year. . . so maybe my objectivity is clouded.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:45 pm)CJS–Thank you for the comment and link.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:55 pm)It looks like the entire eastern half of the USA is pretty evenly lit up in that picture, not just the coasts.
So unless GM was thinking about advertising in the Arctic, Sahara desert, Amazon delta, central Russia, or wertern Australia areas, I think they could still sell the production run of cars without much trouble….
And not piss off a large portion of possible buyers in the USA and Canada with the stupid statements that were made…..
Oct 23rd, 2009 (3:57 pm)yeah but no details.. the critical item not mentioned was the payback period … it may be 15 years.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (4:04 pm)Lol, you know you should drink more coffee than Kahlua?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (4:12 pm)Their SUV model looks like an Aztek.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (4:31 pm)I think your right …but only about 25% will remain if that.
And I am sure GM will release them (sell them) where the weather or conditions are favorable for this technology. Doubt they want bad reviews from areas that will kill batteries faster than others.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (4:32 pm)If he has made it clear, it is not anywhere I can find on this web site. I have no objection to this list being given to GM and maybe there is an implication that that is what will happen to it. However, it is not explicitly stated. Perhaps a note on the registration page is in order.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (4:32 pm)Payback to the politicians yes, but not only for that reason. DC is an excellent location for the Volt. Many commuters travel 50 miles or so to DC for their government job. During the hours of commute, the traffic on I95 is usually bumper to bumper. I can not think of a better location for the Volt after considering many other factors.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (5:11 pm)I still think GM will build the most & cheapest, Until BYD or KIA get involved…
Oct 23rd, 2009 (5:15 pm)I think that the truest and most honest thing for Mr. Henderson to do is to provide up-front indications well in advance regarding
“not working with the wait list”, so that as the time for initial release draws near, that many will not have excessively high expectations to be “let down”, due to the reality of very low initial production numbers. Mr. Henderson is doing the responsible thing here.
But on the other hand, I am sure many at GM greatly appreciate these very helpful discussions, because all manner of misconceptions, clarifications, new ideas, and especially, subject matters that are brought up in questions, allow for GM to address them all realistically if it is the correct time to do so.
So, it really seems to me that the contributions made here are truly that, very kindly given contributions.
Good things come slowly. Really good things seem to take as long as we used to wait for Christmas when we were all growing up. At least our expectations will be maturely “seasoned” by the vast helpfulness of everyone contributing to this site by the time it is our turn to buy.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (5:21 pm)Ferrari always builds fewer cars than they can sell. It WORKS for them. DeLorean built way more cars than they could sell, and look what happened. GM typically builds a few to many, hence the Red Tag sale. If we are lucky, a few years down the road…
I expect the first year the Volt will be way over list on price, want a Volt? Pay up. Money Talks. Now I am sure Lyle will keep us abreast of the market and its influences. So It may not be a bad thing to be a Friend of Lyle (FOL).
Oct 23rd, 2009 (5:40 pm)Is that why they call Africa the dark Continent???
Is that the trans siberian railroad in the upper right??
Now that is what I call a lot of Volts…?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (5:52 pm)I have to say, I’m impressed. Everybody walked away unhurt from a 50mph rear-end collision that smashed a standing-still convertible up underneath a standing-still SUV. I wouldn’t have expected the Tesla to fare that well with an SUV on top of it, and the Prius looks like nothing at all happened to the passenger compartment beyond the airbags deploying.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:00 pm)Ok, SO if the cars are sold first on the coasts, what about us Texans? Do I need to fly to the East coast to buy my Volt in 1Q11? I’d do that. Hey, Houston is the 4th largest city in the USA, so we should be the 4th city to get the Volt.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:23 pm)I dunno, sometimes I push the wrong button and censor myself, LOL. Not that you tech savvy guys would ever do that though.
Speaking of censorship, I haven’t seen much of our beloved trolls the last few days. Maybe Toyota’s in such bad shape they shut off their contract, hehehe. I read someplace yesterday that Toyota is in such bad shape that that VW thinks it is going to pass up Toyota as the world’s biggest.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:28 pm)With all this fuss about perfecting the technology and re-designing the exterior and interior, now the detailed testing schedule and building of a new assembly line – hasn’t anyone questioned GM’s earnestness to “revolutionize” the auto industry with the Volt? We’ve just found out an Opel version seems highly unlikely, and recent interviews with retired, now un-retired Bob Lutz, often mentioned as ” the father of the Volt “, have shown in his own words he doesn’t feel the Volt will be a “game changer “, he’s much more excited about talking performance cars and trucks!
So do we really buy that GM is not gonna incite a ” Who Killed The Plug-In Extended Range Electric Car ” video in the near future? I smell a rat – a big EV-1 rat.
10,000 unit production is a tiny drop in the bucket for a car with a potential 50,000 customers from this website alone! They got our stimulus money so each and every American taxpayer already owns a part of each Volt, look at it as the $7500 tax credit IF you purchase one.
With all the PR, advertisements and explanations to Congress regarding how public money is needed to further this project, I think GM is milking it like crazy and creeping along in the slow lane as far as rolling it out as a serious plan to change the way we travel and commute. Just think of the plans they have for the upcoming Cruze. Same engine from the same plant, and they’re projecting manufacturing in the 50′s of thousands!!!
Look out Volt fans. I think we’re being had.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:42 pm)Watch GM launch a multimillion $ marketing campaign for a product they don’t really have for sale. If they started taking deposits, their entire production for the first two years would be sold in a matter of hours. But they have to do it the GM way. And look how great the GM way has worked so far.
They should start a round of layoffs starting at the top where they could really save $. Gotta sell a lot of cars to pay one $16M salary.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:46 pm)Banjoez nailed it. Because they won’t make money, the only advertising will be education. They do know BECAUSE OF OUR LIST that they will sell enough, that Gen 2 will go forward. And THEN they’ll market the hell out of it, call everyone on the list that wasn’t camping out at their local GM dealer at 8:00 am on November 1st, 2010. Because then they’ll want to make money. Hell, then they’ll have to make money – the gov’t won’t have any left to give them by then!
PS – I love my country but I can’t stand how our government throws our hard-earned money away. Rather, throws China’s hard-earned money away… I owe more in my personal citizen’s share of the national debt than I do after buying my first hybrid upon finishing 4 years of college.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:07 pm)Has GM announced the Volt is a compact car?.. I think it is a compact based on the wheelbase.
The wheelbase on the Volt is 105 inches vs 109 inches for the Midsize Camry. The class of a car is determined by the interior volume and I could not find that for the Volt.
The compact class (Toyota Corolla, Ford Focus, and the Cobalt Sedan) get 33-34mpg on the hwy cycle. So we know the Volt will do better than that.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:08 pm)Parking face-in means that you have to back out, which is very dangerous because of all the blind spots. After watching a kid on a bicycle T-bone my neighbor’s car as he backed out, I *never* park head in. A child’s safety is far more important than the whim of some bored control freaks from the homeowner’s association.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:11 pm)I thought Phoenix went belly up..
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:31 pm)Arch, Herm
Yes indeed, the best podcast interview so far. Thank you for posting about it.
The discussion with about 2 min remaining as to what the AER was during the test drive was illuminating, especially. Your quote above, while accurate, does not do the Posawatz comments justice.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:32 pm)Arch
Thank you. Sounds fantastic. I’ll try to get geothermal too.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:54 pm)After looking at the schedule, I see I can be at the Nissan road show in Raleigh when they show off the Leaf there.
It is sort of sad actually that Nissan is moving so much faster than gm on marketing, when gm actually got the ball rolling for electric cars, (even recognizing the push from Lyle).
Wonder if they will be taking deposits at that time
Oct 23rd, 2009 (7:59 pm)http://www.thebigmoney.com/blogs/shifting-gears/2009/10/23/fox-news-dickers-chevy-volt-mileage
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/10/22/the-trade-off-why-the-chevy-volt-wont-be-a-winner/
Take Care
Arch
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:12 pm)http://www.mnn.com/transportation/cars/blogs/automakers-and-epa-agreeing-on-climate-and-fuel-economy-and-its-not-a
Take Care
Arch
Oct 23rd, 2009 (8:55 pm)The most energy efficient crash in history!
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/10/23/not-good-tesla-roadster-toyota-prius-and-vw-touareg-meet-with/#
Take Care
Arch
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:06 pm)I guess I’ve always seen it referenced as a compact car, so I took it at that. Don’t know if there’s any official confirmation. I can’t see it being sub compact, though. It just doesn’t look that small to me.
I’d expect the volt to do better on city mpg than highway. At highway speeds I think the 1.4 will be working pretty hard, and generator efficiency losses will be higher when it’s having to work under a relatively high load.
As long as I”m speculating . . . it’s possible that the volt mpg may fall off fairly quickly on a hard highway load. Put 4 adults on a cold day on a 75 mph interstate with a 20 mph headwind and I think you could see the mpg drop off into the mid 20′s.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:12 pm)Well I am out of here again. Just got another post killed. Must be the morning news. Real neat pile of energy efficient junk.
Take Care
Arch
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:14 pm)Man, are you guys just sitting around waiting to get angry or what? When you signed up for the Volt on this website, did you really think it meant anything?
The Volt is a bran spanking new vehicle that isn’t even out yet and people are complaining when they’re going to get one 12 months before it’s due for release?
Relax people, ANY new technology is always expensive and hard to get for the first year, period. This is not new.
And no the leaf will not be stealing any thunder any time soon, it’s not even in the same ball pack of the Volt
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:14 pm)Man, are you guys just sitting around waiting to get angry or what? When you signed up for the Volt on this website, did you really think it meant anything?
The Volt is a bran spanking new vehicle that isn’t even out yet and people are complaining when they’re going to get one 12 months before it’s due for release?
Relax people, ANY new technology is always expensive and hard to get for the first year, period. This is not new.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:19 pm)Going a little further with that last scenario. . . .
This could be a real problem for the Volt. I think the car may be at the ragged edge of enough power available in this scenario. If it is, that’s when efficiency (and mpg) will fall off rapidly.
With only an 8(?) gallon gas tank, you could be stopping every 200 miles for the low fuel warning. This could make for a less than pleasurable cross country driving experience, especially when you realize a Prius would have used far less fuel on the road trip.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:30 pm)The green market will go for pure BEVs instead of PHEV – as long as the family has a gas car too i.e. replace one gas car with BEN and keep the other/s.
BTW, some 60 Million US families have more than one car.
http://evnow.wordpress.com/2009/09/02/curing-range-anxiety/
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:32 pm)Not just that.
With just 5K cars in the first year, you want to sell them in just a few places – so that you have to train only a few dealers. As you expand the # of cars you sell, you can train other dealers.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:48 pm)I’ve been waiting since 2007, pushing and advertising and helping to get the word out without geographic boarders, and now I’m being pushed out till… 2012? (Montana won’t being seeing any Volts till then I presume)
I feel like GM just slapped me in the face.
Just remember Mr Fritz, the Volt exists today because of the GM-Volt waiting list and enthusiasts like me. It may be unwise to just ignore that fact.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:52 pm)Wow, Canada is really empty..
Oct 23rd, 2009 (9:59 pm)Well, as mentioned several times by other posters.. its a halo car, it will bring people to the showroom to look at the new ‘lectric car.. and then CorvetteGuy can pounce and sell them a Cruze or Equinox.
Perhaps GM should allocate 500-1000 Volts for the demo process, and rotate them around.. dont you want to test drive a Volt?, dont you at least want to SEE one?.. sell the cars afterwards as demo cars.
CorvetteGuy, how does the new 4 cylinder Equinox drive?.. read a review that the engine was struggling once you stepped on it?
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:10 pm)I think they are testing that now, fuel tank size may change but 300miles+ has been stated by GM people in previous interviews.
I actually think the Volt will get the same mileage (or very close) at both the city and hwy epa cycles.
I believe any driver would be lucky to do 20mpg under the conditions you described… 20mph headwind on a car already doing 75mph and you are approaching the 100mph speed limit of the Volt.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:21 pm)Thanks Arch, excellent links as usual.
” If you read between the line of the Fox News story, the question being asked is “Will the Volt have better mpgs than the Prius?” This makes sense, unless you take into account that the Volt is gradually unbecoming a hybrid and getting lumped in with a new generation of EVs, such as the all-electric Nissan Leaf. Comparing it with conventional gas-powered cars and hybrids doesn’t make sense, because owners will routinely be able to game the whole gas system.”
Finally someone says this, people are just too obsessed with the Volts CS mileage, its just not that important.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:37 pm)It’s frustrating. I feel your pain.
Thanks for the links today.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:46 pm)that’s ok, just picked up my ford fusion hybrid today. someone else can have my number. I am extremely happy with my decision so far.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:52 pm)Carcus
THANKS! This is the ONLY site I post on that kills my most hot posts!
I bet in the morning you see info on a crash between some high
priced energy efficient cars. We shall see.
Take Care
Arch
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:54 pm)If GM had been like Honda/Toyota they would be working day/night to bring the Volt early & surprise everyone …But like the big slumbring giant they are too smug with all the $$ given to them … They have been building cars for a long time – should have the experts to get the kinks out quickly & bring it to the market …Can you imagine what it will say about them ..but they will ha hum about & bring it in late …
Look at the hybrids Honda/Toyota brought in …Honda did not wait for years to catch up with Toyota…They went to work & brought the Insight back ..All these Cos GM, Ford, Crysler cant compete with the japanese/Koreans car makers ..in quality. Good Luck GM
Oct 24th, 2009 (12:51 am)I also noticed this the moment I glanced at the picture. There isn’t a charge port where the artist put it!
Oct 24th, 2009 (12:52 am)I can’t help the automatic engineer reaction to convert prefixes.
2500 volts is 2.5kV.
Oct 24th, 2009 (1:36 am)They use their own “vetted by attorneys” lists with specific rules, conditions, limititations and documentation of the process to cover their dxie cups. Not unofficial third party lists.
When I had info on lists by small retailers years ago, I heard about some pretty shady things done with lists, especially where there was value involved. A big compary with a big treasury and a badly designed list would make a good target for lawsuits.
Oct 24th, 2009 (1:39 am)Jaime, LOL
ROTHL…
Oct 24th, 2009 (2:07 am)I’d be pissed if someone sucked at backing in but tried anyways and hit my car.
Kids who ride bikes into a car backing out of a driveway (5 mph?) are idiots. I’d point and laugh.
Although, I rode a bike into a trash dumpster once. Maybe they should outlaw those.
Oct 24th, 2009 (5:16 am)“He’s lucky I’m not his boss; I have a small tolerance for ignorance.”
———————————————–
Actually, since GM took OUR bailout money, we ARE his boss – through President Obama. All it would take is a few words from the President, and there WOULD be more Volt production. WE paid for the Volt when we bailed out GM, and the Volt was a big reason we bailed GM out.
(Capitalized words for emphasis – I’m trying to rant emotionally here!)
Where is the leadership from the White House? Where is Omama? Where is the President we can believe in? Right now, he’s hell-bent to change a health care plan that 85% of the US population don’t want to be changed. He could really help us by pushing for more Volt production, but he cannot seem to wisely choose which fights to fight.
Lowering gas prices would certainly help the poor, fixing unemployment would be a huge help to everyone, losing the Space Shuttle program will hurt Florida’s economy, Medicare is hemoraging money due to fraud and abuse – there is so much Obama could do to help, if he had the will to walk away from his losing position on government-run health care, which most prople don’t want. He could just study health care while addressing the other important issues above – and of course, kicking GM in the pants, to get more Volts in 2010.
Come on Obama – you have to know when to fold ‘em, and you’re playing a losing hand with health care. Just walk away, and fix everything else.
-1
Oct 24th, 2009 (7:15 am)Nissan Leaf is the way to go …small EV car …Existing gas stations can install the high volt charging stations …It will be great if GM Ford etc come up with a small 2 seat commute car ..under $20K Once EV begin to sell & with the help of local Govt cities, counties can help to install chaging stations …Wonder what is holding up this transformation …?
Oct 24th, 2009 (7:33 am)too true, too funny
Wouldn’t want my wife or several other drivers I know backing in to tight spaces if I cared about dings.
Oct 24th, 2009 (7:35 am)Passenger side charge port option. Make it so NGMCO.
Oct 24th, 2009 (8:03 am)The techs already know the ICE part of everything. They already know the final-drive, the low-voltage electrical systems, the hydraulic parts of the brake systems, the non-compressor parts of the AC system, all of the lighting systems, all of the body control module related systems, the steering suspension systems, and on and on.
There ought not be any training-related delays from what I see from looking at the open chassis pic that was provided for us to see last year.
The pack is modular. We saw a picture of that many weeks ago, being installed up under the Volt. That procedure is likely the most process-based of all.
It seems to me that the simple reason GM needs to concentrate the deployment “East Coast/West Coast” is that these logistics for initial possible servicing concerns can make for quicker and more expeditious servicing with the unique components that need to be securely stored.
Shipping of the battery, for example, for a customer over a long distance by “who knows whose handling it” can present all manner of risk if it is not properly handled, and, is not a “just in time” sort of shipping component.
Oct 24th, 2009 (5:36 pm)Dear GM,
I watched in the 90′s as the EV1 arrive on the scene with great interest. I would have bought one but the technology wasn’t ready for Canadian winters nor the world… so I waited.
During which time I owned a Honda, GM, and Ford. I decided I’d never buy a GM again.
I watched the VOLT make it’s debut in 2007… so I waited.
A year ago I decided that come mid/late 2011 I would buy GM again in the form of the VOLT.
I don’t need another car, I like my F150 quite a bit thank-you, but I’m willing to part with $35k just cuz I’ll be driving electric. I don’t really have $$ growing on trees, I’d rather put it towards a solid return type investment, but I’ll spend it if I’m early on the roll out of the VOLT.
But GM hear me on this… If you think that I will wait until 2013 for a chance to pay for an over priced first gen of unproven technology built by a manufacture that has lost my faith in it, think again!
Get the VOLT out in quantity so I can GIVE you my money.
Oct 25th, 2009 (10:22 pm)No big deal. Just drive to buy and pick up the car. I flew to Utah to pick up a Lincoln MKX for my wife. $88 one way ticket and I drove it home. Just remember to order if you want a car and press on.
Oct 27th, 2009 (8:42 am)Typical corporate greed.
While GM benefitted from all the people here on the unofficial list, from our suggestions/etc, they dump us and will not consider us for their wait list. That is fine, my loyalty is now with Nissan.
Oct 27th, 2009 (2:02 pm)I currently drive a Honda that just turned 180k miles. I was planning on driving it until the Volt came out in 2010/2011. Doesn’t sound like I will be getting a Volt anymore. Nissan, here I come.
Oct 29th, 2009 (4:02 pm)And so they bite the hand that feeds them. So typical.
Oct 29th, 2009 (4:03 pm)“Nissan Leaf is the way to go”
You want to lease a battery pack??
Oct 31st, 2009 (2:17 pm)so like GM to think they are a god to all people who want cars.
I am number 56, i think, on this want list. Is GM really that stupid???
1st year orders, if they were to sell 50,000 units @ $35000.00 average price. They anticipate to only produce 60,000 units in a full production year. What ding dongs! They really have a numbers problem. They need to use that list! I give GM 24 months,TOPS, to be in business IF they continue to think that way.