OnStar is General Motors’ cellular and GPS-based system for monitoring vehicles.
It currently provides real time assistance, directions, theft prevention and other features to 5.6 million drivers who pay from $199 to $299 per year for the service.
Its no secret that GM believes the Chevy Volt could gain significant value-added utility from having access to OnStar. In fact, Volt executive Tony Posawatz says the possibilities for this relationship are “mind-boggling.”
GM has yet to confirm or finalize all the OnStar-mediated features the Volt will offer, but have just shown off their new testing facility called the OnStar EV Lab.
Currently the lab is using OnStar to monitor 19 of the Chevy Volt integration prototypes.
Engineers are collecting all sorts of data from these cars each of which have 20 different independent modules that are capable of transmitting back status updates to the system.
The data includes performance and diagnostic information and relays such things as battery state of charge, temperatures, and thermal management operation. Though the primary focus for now is real-time observation of battery health and function, GM is using the lab to develop the final features for the car once it reaches production.
Posawatz notes that OnStar could be used to communicate with the utility companies. Using this method, the cars could actually charge slowly or not at all when rates or demand is high, and then more rapidly when rates are lower, reducing the drivers expense.
A more simplified approach would be to simply let the driver manually program in those parameters in the same way one programs an automated household thermostat.
“The car will have to talk to the grid and be able to pull very sensitive (utility) data,” Posawatz told CNET. “Electric vehicle customers want to manage their energy–they’re very into data. OnStar is an enabling tool for us.” GM is currently working with EPRI to collect some of this data nationwide.
Posawatz also cautions that the ability of the car to communicate with local utilities will limit the pace of the car’s rollout.
“It certainly won’t be a nation-wide roll-out (at first),” he said. The whole nation might not see these cars until sometime in 2011.
Another potential use for OnStar will be in the other direction allowing for example firmware upgrades to the car.
And for those who might ask, Tony Posawatz has confirmed to GM-Volt.com, “OnStar will be standard with VOLT.”
Back in late 2008 we heard then GM executive Bob Kruse say that “OnStar gives us the opportunity to know more about the environment the driver is driving in,” implying that terrain could be taken into account to show the driver the most energy-efficient route home.
If it was clear that a driver was returning home, OnStar could also shut off the ICE to let the driver arrive “as close to zero as practical or possible,” minimizing the use of petroleum.
In response to that post, readers generated 180 responses, some of which I’ve been told by reliable sources were actually integrated into the car by the Volt team.
Any more ideas?
+11
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:32 am)Its great to hear that some of this site’s suggestions are being incorporated into the Volt.
I have seen many very good ideas from the many contributors to this site and had hoped that GM was watching all this as they went about designing the Volt.
Take a bow, VoltNation.
And you too, Lyle.
+6
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:34 am)Posawatz notes that OnStar could be used to communicate with the utility companies. Using this method, the cars could actually charge slowly or not at all when rates or demand is high, and then more rapidly when rates are lower, reducing the drivers expense.
–
Lots of possibilities here that are good for utilities, but are any of them good for the Volt’s owner? Rather than getting you Volt charged as expected, it may be that you are coming back and finding that your car did not charge as expected because your utility cut you off. That is going to be very disappointing, though I suppose you still can drive on gas.
+24
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:36 am)“Posawatz also cautions that the ability of the car to communicate with local utilities will limit the pace of the car’s rollout.”
This is BS. The first 10,000 cars will have zero impact on electric power in this country. Get them out as soon as possible.
Save your idiot proof communications with the utilities for Version 2.0.
Just get this simple electric car with a range extender on the road. We can handle managing our own electric use for now.
+4
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:39 am)That would piss me off if It did not charge when I plugged it in and told it to charge.
The solution is to have time of use metering. This encourages people to charge at night but gives them the freedom to charge anytime they like (at a cost of course).
+2
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:41 am)“It certainly won’t be a nation-wide roll-out (at first),” he said. The whole nation might not see these cars until sometime in 2011.”
———–
The 2011 (rather than 2010) availability has been rumored for quite a while, but so far as I remember this quote is more definitive than anything we’ve had before. From past experience, “sometime in 2011″ means late in 2011, so it looks like it will be a couple more years, at least.
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:44 am)If what it means is the choice of time of day metering , or not, as selected by the car’s driver, that could be a positive development. I hope so, but when push comes to shove, I wonder if that is how it will really work.
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:49 am)Good to see that buyer suggestions are being used in the final cut of the Volt.
I agree with you RB. With the recent Ampera news and this new delay report it seems the Volt is always just 1.5 years away.
Maybe we’ll see a basic EREV truck by then?
=D~
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:55 am)I keyed in on that statement as well. And I suspect that 2011 won’t be nationwide but selected markets — just a few more markets than 2010. Probably won’t be generally available until 2012 or 2013 most likely — if the car does end up succeeding in the market place.
+9
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:58 am)A cool thing for the OnStar GPS would be locating public charge spots. Lets say you are driving around, and want to stay and eat somewhere. Your GPS could then show you which restaurants on your route offer free charging (just put a freakin’ outlet near a parking spot). You get free charge while you eat – the restautant gets more customers.
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:00 am)Only two hundred bucks a year for ONstar!!?? I thought it was up there around $600!
Two hundred bucks a year after the first year IS NOTHING!!!!
I don’t ever want to get caught in a traffic jam if at all avoidable.
(Time is big money added up during that year!!)
I want to be able to talk to Britta if she has time sometime.
I want to be able to help GM study the battery for Austin TX traffic patterns all during the day, everyday.
I want to be able to help the local utility fine tune and study anything possible that they would like to study.
(They just put in my SMARTMETER last Saturday).
I want directions several times a day, (because of all the new business I’m getting from new shops that want demo’s on the Genisys scan system).
HECK YES ONstar is worth every single penny of that $199 a year. Only that much money is NOTHING FOR WHAT YOU GET!
I want one!
(off to work. Have a great day everyone!!!)
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:01 am)I thought it was clear from earlier discusssions that the Volts interface would allow you to set the time of charge (ie. when the charging should start).
This is no big deal. My diswasher and washing machine have delayed start. We use it all the time. In MD for the last 10-20 years, new houses have been getting time of use meters. If the rates go down at 11, then you initiate your power application to begin after 11. It’s not a big deal.
No need to delay production, no need to communicate with the utility.
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:05 am)Cool
it would be nice if OnStar was offered in 2 or 3 packages
First would be Data collection only
Second would have Data and limited Cell Phone
and the last would be the full blown OnStar
This would allow some of us who have Cell phones and GPS Nav system to just buy the first package and others to buy the full blown package.
I like the idea of have OnStar talk to the Volt on how far your from home so it would NOT start the ICE so you would run only on battery
I have a 56 mile commute and with the 40 mile range I would be running the last 16 miles on gas
Still have not heard back from the “powers to be” about renting a power outlet at work to get a quick top off during work
+5
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:09 am)Remember that the late 2010 rollout has always been a 2011 model year. Also, the 1st year of production is going to be 10,000 cars.
I would assume we get less than 1000 vehicles shipped in 2010. Thats not very many and means that you won’t see one.
Even 10,000 by the end of 2011 means that most people will not see the car.
As an example, I just bought a 2010 equinox (actually it is on order and being build this week) so I am looking for 2010 Equinoxes on the road.
I have yet to see one driving around in the wild in the MD/DC area and they are selling about 10,000 of these per month (an order of magnitude more than the Volts first year). I also cannot find them at the dealers I have been visiting. They are very hard to find right now and there are many more than 10,000 on the road. The point is, if I am having trouble finding a 2010 Equinox, then I have little hope of seeing a Volt in 2011.
+5
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:13 am)“A mid-day partial recharge extends the overall electric mileage reach.”
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
If this is the sort of thing we’re going to get from an OnStar EV Lab, somebody should have saved their money.
“If it was clear that a driver was returning home, OnStar could also shut off the ICE to let the driver arrive “as close to zero as practical or possible,” minimizing the use of petroleum.”
No kidding. I’ll bet a Garmin integrated into the system could do that and then you wouldn’t have to spend $whatever/year for OnStar. In fact, I’d look for software that could plan energy management to take advantage of terrain and I’ll bet Garmin could supply a system that would work autonomously.
“Another potential use for OnStar will be in the other direction allowing for example firmware upgrades to the car.”
On what schedule? I work in IT and I don’t allow updates to my PC or my servers willy-nilly. I run them when it’s convenient for me, when i’m sure they’re well tested and when I actually need the “improvement.” Imagine you’ve walked out to your car and you can’t use it for ten minutes while it finishes applying an update that addresses a problem with an option that’s not in your car.
“Tony Posawatz has confirmed to GM-Volt.com, “OnStar will be standard with VOLT.””
How many years’ worth is “standard?”
+7
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:17 am)“Onstar standard”: does that mean I have to buy it whether I want it or not. I’m not sure I want someone tracking my every movement. Pretty soon I’ll be taxed depending on what roads I drive on and when. This is a lot of info to give to someone and trust they are not going to abuse it. Take for example They will know when you are at home !!!! And when you are not!! Onstar is a great tool, it could also be a great weapon.
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:28 am)I still dont like the idea of shutting off the ICE before i’m “heading home”. How does my car know i’m heading home? Maybe i’m just heading towards my home, but will pass it and keep going to my actual destination.
Here’s my suggestion; either have a button to push saying “i’m going home” (or to a place I know i can charge), or let the driver choose a “stealth mode” where you force the car into battery mode, and vice versa, where you could force it into ICE mode.
3 position switch “Battery – Auto – ICE”
Obviously there would be limits set that if the battery was too low, ICE mode comes on no matter what mode you had selected.
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:30 am)So, if you are providing your own power, they will cut you off at a utility peak?
Utility peaks are temperature dependent; said it before and saying it again; during certain temperature extremes a few times per year, the Volt can delay charging if it has sufficient charging interval to be ready when the customer desires. Also it can randomize its charging cycles to distribute the load on the utility load curve. The GPS system can use elevations at trip start and finish to calculate how much to run the ICE if necessary. ONStar not really necessary, just a db of elevations. These could be recorded during normal daily driving or pre-stored for the region the car operates in. For long trips, the ICE should run at peak efficiency to 80% and then shut off giving the driver more quiet time. Who wants the ICE hunting around to try and keep the battery near 30% plus or minus? That would be silly. Knocks the hell out of the little hill problem too.
GM seems to be hedging on the release date.
Wonder if that new Toy-odor is an anti-Volt wagon? Just upgrade the batts as it makes competitive sense?
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:34 am)Here is a depressing thought: OnStar could also be used to communicate notification of safety recalls to the driver!
The Volt is a new vehicle, and I am sure there will be recalls on it. What I pray for is that GM quickly and effectively addresses the problems as best it possibly can, and that it keeps and open and honest dialog when these problems happen. I know the lawyers will advise against this, but I think all of us early Volt buyers realize that regardless of the fantastic job they are doing in preproduction testing, there will be issues that arise in the field.
+2
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:47 am)That’s what I’m thinking, too. Little hope of seeing a Volt around my area of the country for quite some time.
+2
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:51 am)This was a nice read.
I have a question. What does “OnStar Will be Standard in Production” mean? Do I have to pay yearly fees for this? What happens when I stop paying?
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:54 am)This point was rasied months ago. Everyone shutters at the thought of being wrist implant chipped. Yet, who doesn’t have a cell phone on their belt?
A 2008 child abduction case was cracked when cell phone evidence was presented showing the accused in a “wooded area” near her home. The area was searched and remains were found.
=D~
+3
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:56 am)“Posawatz also cautions that the ability of the car to communicate with local utilities will limit the pace of the car’s rollout.
“It certainly won’t be a nation-wide roll-out (at first),” he said. The whole nation might not see these cars until sometime in 2011.”
——————————-
Is it just me, or does it sound like GM is trying really hard to come up with silly ideas not to let us but a Volt????
Ohio Edison does not have residential time or rate based metering, so that means I can not buy a car????? Are you kidding me???
Come on, GM. We early adopters do not need to be hand held on how to use new technology…..
Just get us the cars!!
+4
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:56 am)Setting the time of charge for night time charging is one thing.
What if you are going to the movies and want to plug in while you are there? Or shopping at the mall that is 25 miles away from home?
Can I plug in and get charged, or do I have to wait until the preset time I setup for nighttime charging?
And if the utility says no, I can’t use electricity at noon while at the mall,
well, I’m with nuclearboy, this would really piss me off.
+3
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:56 am)That’s not what he is saying. He is saying that the first states to get Volt’s will be those who offer utility interfaces for the Volt, to maximize the value of the Volt to consumers.
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:57 am)What about those Volt owners who have solar and wind power creating enough electricity to power a small town. The Volt needs to have a manual override for the power management system.
NPNS!
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:02 am)I am assuming OnStar can be used for voluntary software upgrades to the vehicle, should they discover a problem. That would save a trip to the dealer.
+10
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:06 am)OK,
And I am saying this is BS. repeat of post above.
In addition..
“The car will have to talk to the grid and be able to pull very sensitive (utility) data,” Posawatz told CNET.
This is also BS, The car does not have to do this. Does my 65 inch Plasma TV have to do this. It draws plenty of power.
“Electric vehicle customers want to manage their energy–they’re very into data. OnStar is an enabling tool for us.”
This is also BS. My wife just wants to drive an electric car.
I still reccomend to GM. Save your idiot proof communications with the utility and get the Volt out to drivers in as many places as possible.
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:09 am)I agree, Dan! My 2008 Vue came standard with OnStar & transmits summary data from each of the following (from a monthly email OnStar sends me)…..
Engine and Transmission System, Emissions System, Air Bag System, StabiliTrak® Stability Control System, Antilock Braking System, Vehicle Maintenance (e.g., oil life & mileage), Tire Pressures & the OnStar System itself.
Actually, my OnStar subscription costs $30.78/mo or $369.36/yr, but this also includes GPS navigation that’s far superior to any of the 3 other GPS systems I’ve owned. WORTH EVERY PENNY & I LOVE IT!
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:14 am)OnStar already DOES in fact come in 3 pkgs: Data, GPS Nav & Hands-free Phone. You can have 1, 2 or all 3.
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:16 am)“Posawatz also cautions that the ability of the car to communicate with local utilities will limit the pace of the car’s rollout.”
______________
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:20 am)“OnStar standard” means the electronics are built in & the services are pre-paid (for the 1st year for my Vue). After that, you can order any of the 3 packages: Data, GPS Nav &/or Hands-free Phone. You can choose 1, 2 or all 3.
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:21 am)“Posawatz also cautions that the ability of the car to communicate with local utilities will limit the pace of the car’s rollout.”
__________________
Yeah right …. my BS meter pegged on that one.
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:26 am)Hi Rashid,
If OnStar works on the Volt like it did on my 2003 Envoy, you get the first year for free (with the purchase), and subsequent years are pay as you go. Depending on the level of support you want, the cost ranged from $199/yr to $299/yr as Lyle mentions in his post.
When you stop paying, you stop receiving the services, although emergency services are still available even if you don’t pay. I haven’t had to use it, but I would suppose they could charge you later if you had an accident and needed assistance.
The cell phone services were prepaid and could be used separately from the other OnStar services on my vehicle.
Hope that helps.
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:27 am)Come on, GM. We early adopters do not need to be hand held on how to use new technology…..
Exactly…
+2
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:30 am)Rashiid – on current GM vehicles, OnStar service comes standard for one year. After that, its about $199 per year to renew. However, on the VOLT, it sounds like the OnStar service will be more encompassing and may include programming of certain vehicle features – you could think of it as a landing page into the brains of your VOLT. I could see logging into my home or office computer, going to the OnStar website and then pulling up all the pertinent data about my VOLT – pretty cool.
The ‘Standard’ part is the OnStar hardware that is built into your VOLT. The ‘Service’ or ‘Software’ may be subscription based – but I would encourage GM to look at making it ‘standard’ as well on all Gen-1 VOLTs to allow better flow of real-world information back to the engineers who will be hard at work designing Gen-2.
+5
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:31 am)I have to agree here. My 2000 Bonneville isn’t going to last until 2011-2012. I need a Volt within the next 12 months. I don’t care about it communicating to Consumers Energy. It matters not to me. I will plug it in every day and charge it. I’m completely capable of doing that without any assistance or data from my utility company.
I want an electric car that has a range extender period. If I can’t get a Volt in the time frame I need it I will be buying another brand. I will not buy another ICE only automobile. Period!
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:31 am)It means onStar capabilities are standard on the Volt. It is an upgrade option on some GM vehicles.
I belive the first year is free on all GM cars, then after that paying an annual fee is optional.
For less than $17 per month I think it is a good value, the next person may not and can decide to opt out.
+7
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:34 am)I’m with you here. There is simply no need for making this complicated.
When I plug in the car, I expect it to charge. That simple.
When I pull the plug out, I don’t expect the car to charge.
Is this complicated? No. Even my wife will be able to understand this concept. And when you make things idiot proof, only an idiot will be able to break it. Keep it simple GM.
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:35 am)Sounds like a great way for GM to get a continuing revenue stream on the vehicle.
If the car has Bluetooth, well, I already have a cellphone. Guaranteed we won’t be able to access this data that way though, because it would undermine a potential revenue stream.
Just out of curiosity, does GM use CANBUS in their vehicles these days? The prius folks do all kinds of neat tricks by spoofing CANBUS messages (like sending an ‘out of gas’ message to enable 52mph EV mode… Yes, obviously this invalidates warranty coverage on certain components of your powertrain.)
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:38 am)Rashid, I have a Saturn Vue that came with “Onstar standard”. The first year was free, the next year’s basic service is very inexpensive, but premium services can definitely get you up to $300 per year or more.
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:38 am)Perhaps there needs to be a button the owner presses for an ‘instant charge’ when needed.
More importantly, if the owner can program the VOLT’s charging times using OnStar, it may make yesterdays discussion about home installed charging timers obsolete! If you can simply program what time you need your VOLT fully charged, say 6:00am, then OnStar can calculate how long the actual charge needs to be based on current battery condition and when the optimum time to charge it would be. This feature could be a great cost saver to the owner (paying lower rates for off-peak electricity) and for the overall grid.
Lot’s of possibilities with OnStar using intelligence gained from the operator’s use of their VOLT (info from inside the vehicle) combined with real world info gathered from the outside world – Utilities, Traffic conditions, weather factors, etc.
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:39 am)I got a different read on the statement
“It certainly won’t be a nation-wide roll-out (at first),” he said. The whole nation might not see these cars until sometime in 2011.”
I think he was talking about the feature of utility connection to the grid. Development of the Smart Grid is ongoing now and will take some time for utility companies to standard the specifications before they install equipment to enable Smart Grid features.
They also state: “Currently the lab is using OnStar to monitor 19 of the Chevy Volt integration prototypes.” That doesn’t sound like it will delay the Volt’s sales.
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:41 am)I’m sure the Volt will have a default mode if you don’t like all those fancy controls. Some individuals will chose for those fancy controls and others will not. I know I would, but then on the other hand, my wife would not.
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:44 am)GM has been hinting that OnStar will be integrated with Volt more than their other cars.
I am not pleased that the infrastructure (OnStar to grid communications) could delay the roll out plans. The dual-mode thing is looking more practical and available as time progresses.
Heck, I might just go back to my original plan and roll my own. GM is not bringing Volt to me any time soon it seems.
Let’s see… a ’57 4-door Nomad body on an ’02 Silverado chassis with wheel motors. Sounds doable. Junkyard Wars FTW!
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:47 am)OnStar comes in various packages already – but for the VOLT, there may just be one version on Gen1 vehicles to keep it simple.
What would be ultra-cool would be to see if OnStar could take a driver input destination, say a 100 mile trip, and program the ICE to engage at the optimum times. Even though the VOLT is electric driven at all times, I would be interested to learn if there is any range benefit if the ICE kicks in under certain conditions, such as severe elevation climbs, versus just waiting for the battery to reach a set state of charge. If OnStar could help maximize the pure EV range on each drive, it would be HUGE!
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:52 am)I long time ago, Lyle made a post where we could give ideas (OnStar and WiFi interconnect).
One idea I gave was to allow user to get deeper oversight of the usage from online reports from data pulled by OnStar.
It could become a key marketing tool for GM showing how many miles without gaz was done from the Voltec fleet. (Could even be a strategic position in the Carbon market).
With the Social Media growing, people would be able to share this data and become evengelist for the Voltec Technology.
Can’t seem to track back that post I made (the search tool only pulled forum post).
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:52 am)My Saturn Vue came with “Onstar standard” for one year. Onstar DOES have a three tiered service level. The first year was free for all three tiers. After that you decide. The really basic service level for emergencies is free, the Phone service is a small additional charge, the GPS service is about $350 per year (and it is NOT as good as stand-alone GPS devices), but that includes much more than just GPS, mainly because there is a warm body on the other end of the line.
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:52 am)OnStar already does this! They have a great monthly email that is sent to the owner of any enrolled OnStar equipped vehicle that shows the latest status of various vehicle systems; the current odometer reading and remaining oil life to help anticipate your next service; the current state of your OnStar subscription; the current state of you XM subscription; and also any current open recalls or safety bulletins. It is a great way to keep up on your vehicle.
see Nasaman’s comment at #6
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:53 am)FYI- On-Star does NOT cost 199 – 299 per year. When they call to renew your subscription, tell them you are only willing to pay 5.00 per month 60/year & they will take it. If not, hang up & let them call again, then they will!!
+4
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:55 am)Attention GM:
Each time you mention a costly new feature for the VOLT, all we hear is “ka-ching! ka-ching!”… You guys keep racking up the price!
Next time, replace “VOLT” with “Converj” and it will happily be accepted.
Keep on adding more crap and you might as well call it “The Homer”.
(all you fans of ‘The Simpsons’ know what I’m talking about)
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:55 am)I said it above and I’ll say it again.
I got a different read on the statement
“It certainly won’t be a nation-wide roll-out (at first),” he said. The whole nation might not see these cars until sometime in 2011.”
I think he was talking about the feature of utility connection to the grid. Development of the Smart Grid is ongoing now and will take some time for utility companies to standard the specifications before they install equipment to enable Smart Grid features.
They also state: “Currently the lab is using OnStar to monitor 19 of the Chevy Volt integration prototypes.” That doesn’t sound like it will delay the Volt’s sales.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:59 am)Or more precisely, give you advanced notice that you need to go to the dealer to repair or adjust something before it becomes a bigger problem.
Happy trails to yo ’til we meet again.
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:03 am)GM does read these posts fortunately. And maybe by now they’ve realized they’ve made another mistake (what else is new). Version 1 should have concentrated on just getting the car out and KISS.
Gen 2 could have included ONSTAR and utility company communication.
The most important thing about electric mobility happening is getting the cars on the road and ramping up production, Battery Development and getting those costs down.
They have several years until there are over a million cars on the road and thats plenty of time to worry about how to keep the cars from being charged during PEAK AC loads.
And as discussed yesterday thats as simple as just having time of day metering (with highest rates during Peak AC times).
They must think that by spending all this time and money on ONSTAR crap it justifies a $43,000 car.
How about let the owner’s program it and sell it for $35,000?
+6
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:08 am)I don’t need, or want my car to communicate with the grid! I will determine when and where it will charge and if it costs me a little more, so be it. I will learn what the rates are at what times and plan accordingly. I’m also not thrilled with transmitting my driving habits and destinations back to GM either. No On Star for me please. V2G?? The utilities can keep their fingers out of my car! Didn’t anybody read or see the movie 1984??
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:16 am)I’ve mentioned this before. Below is a link of German attempt to develop “charge while you drive”. EVs would only need enough range for maybe 40 miles max, daily commuting in town.
Hop on any limited access highway which could be installed with the roadcharging system and you can recharge while you drive, in effect UNLIMITED Range.
http://www.examiner.com/x-9508-Aspen-Environmental-News-Examiner~y2009m10d8-New-wireless-roadcharging-system-gives-electric-vehicles-endless-range.
The beauty of this is it would work for 18 wheelers. But obviously this would be a massive infrastructure investment that would take many years and corresponding increases in Utility comany investment, because unlike what we’ve been discussing, you can’t avoid needing juice during peak times. Of course maybe this would lead to truckers driving at night and sleeping during the day?
+2
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:20 am)Perhaps Lyle shouldn’t have let slip that GM takes directions from these message boards, because it seems to have reinvigorated the trolls to skew the community preferences. I hope GM can tell true criticism from troll venom.
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:29 am)I just spend 40K on Solar getting ready for my Volt, so I better be able to decide when I charge it. The Utility isn’t giving me a cent towards my solar. Maryland wants Utilities to help pay for this Solar systems by buying 15 years worth of Solar Renewable Energy Credits and they (Utilities) are fighting it all the way. i better have an overwrite button.
+2
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:32 am)Thank you GLV, LeoK, Nick D, and JohnK, for giving me a clue on what “Standard” meant.
This is one of reasons why I love this site so much.
We all help each other out.
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:32 am)All of this sophistication is software driven. In the manufacturing of IC, it is just as cheap to add extra features on a chip then not. What I’m saying is all this sophistication will not cost much more than a plain basic system. So if it too sophisticated for some, I’m sure there will be a default to simplicity if desired, but that might not get you the best savings on a daily basis of operation.
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:52 am)I like the idea of software updates through onstar and them being able to improve future models based on data collected about driver habits.
I don’t like the idea of not being able to manually adjust features. I would want to be able to turn regenerative braking on and off along with the ICE when I know I’m almost home and I’d like to program it to charge at specified times myself. I don’t really want Onstart to control my ICE for me.
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:57 am)Where I live (Central Alberta Canada) …. I do no expect to see a Volt at any of the Chevy Dealerships before 2013…
I purchased the 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid in the mean time…. When I buy my Volt in 2013 ish…. I will be keeping the Ford as it seats 5… Really does get what the sticker states (5.4 L/100 KM in town and 6.1 L/100 KM highway). and had been 100 % Trouble free so far ( almost 3 months and 8000 KMS ) .
Life time average as of today is 5.6 L/100 KMS ( 50.4 MPG Canadain) and that includes the morning warm ups to thaw the windows and heat the cabin..)
It will be a great thing to compare the 2 vehicles as to what they are capable of and what they actually do..
Ford had got it right so far… and in speaking to the Dealership… when I bring the vehicle in for service… any updates/upgrades in the software etc. will be done automatically.
+3
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:06 am)GM has said all along that they want this car to be very easy to drive.
As simple as the current cars of today.
But with this, they are trying to make it complicated.
They have to keep it simple.
I’m a computer programmer.
I am not going to struggle with the software and stuff.
But I’m betting there are plenty of people who are not going to have a clue. Remember all the people who couldn’t figure out how to program
a VCR?
Don’t get me wrong. I like a lot of options. Especially if the option has an off button. But I would still like my passenger ejector seat as an option.
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:10 am)LRGV—> thanks for the post. After reading your comments I went back and re-read the original post, and I think you may be right.
+2
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:10 am)I’m not paying for Onstar. These monthly fees for everything are riduculous. If I buy a Volt, I want a one time charge. I don’t want ongoing finance fees, battery lease fees, onstar fees etc.
I think for the premium Volt buyers are paying, this should be free for the life of the car.
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:11 am)Tibor — I like your idea. It might be extended to shopping malls and other places.
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:16 am)Jason M –> It’s very doubtful that gm would go around the dealer that way. The very best you can hope for is that they tell the dealer to be ready with the upgrade when you come in. (The dealer is always ready with the bill.) There is value though in having the dealership ready for you.
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:17 am)“Thank you, Captain Obvious.”, LOL.
You must be another Autoweek reader. BWTM is my favorite page in Autoweek, and Captain Obvious is one of my favorite characters thereupon.
Good man! +1
+2
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:20 am)Ray –> Thanks for update on the Fusion Hybrid. It’s impressive.
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:20 am)“How does my car know i’m heading home? Maybe i’m just heading towards my home, but will pass it and keep going to my actual destination.”
If the car guesses wrong the engine will go on as soon as you pass home. Your battery will have gone a little below the usual minimum, but that’s no big deal.
“3 position switch “Battery – Auto – ICE””
This may cause a problem with CARB or even the CAFE numbers.
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:23 am)Brian:
Yeah, I can’t wait until I get my first Onstar generated speeding ticket. If they can monitor all of these other sophisticated functions, they can sure as !@#$ monitor your speed. It’ll probably come in the form of an e-mail from the PD. Or maybe a tweet, LOL. I can see it on the Onstar screen now, “You’re busted! Charges will appear on your next credit card statement. Have a nice day.”
Plus, not only will they know if you’re home or not, they’ll know where you are all the time. It’ll be the biggest windfall for divorce private investigators since the fake mustache, LMAO.
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:28 am)Jason:
I dunno, sometimes I can’t tell the difference in my own comments, LOL.
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:35 am)Well, no, I don’t read AutoWeek. But it sounds like I should!
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:36 am)Thinking of it, this system converges slowly towards the Better place (and Nissan/Renault ) projects about the global electronic/telecom management of EVs (except for the management of the Volt ICE of course).
One keeps wondering who will set the standards, life is very interesting these days.
Regards,
JC NPNS
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:38 am)unfortunately they are not getting to market in a timely manner – this will cost them market share and is costing them new vehicle sales – i will not buy a new GM product – if I have to I am buying used and waiting for a good EV – EREV option
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:38 am)[...] http://gm-volt.com/2009/10/21/gm-reveals-onstar-ev-lab-which-connects-to-chevy-volt-prototypes/My Saturn Vue came with “Onstar standard” for one year. Onstar DOES have a three tiered service level. The first year was free for all three tiers. After that you decide. The really basic service level for emergencies is free, … [...]
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:40 am)Well, gee. Maybe people shouldn’t speed, cheat on their spouse, or use a car without paying for the roads (and infrastructure) it runs on. Maybe.
Meanwhile, back at the bankrupt GM:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/21/autos/auto_bailout_rattner_excerpt.fortune/index.htm
“Certainly Rick [Wagoner] and his team seemed to believe that virtually all of their problems could be laid at the feet of some combination of the financial crisis, oil prices, the yen-dollar exchange rate, and the UAW.”
I want an electric car. I’d buy one now. Oh, wait, no one makes one. And the volt will be available only to rich people.
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:48 am)Can I get mine with a bubble dome?
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:53 am)#23 Ray…..or anyone else for that matter.
Has anyone seen the Milan Hybrid and how does it compare to the Fusion? I assume the only difference is interior/exterior appointments.
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:54 am)Yes, the possibilities for a Volt-OnStar relationship are endless. I have a few questions:
1) How much will the service cost? It’s currently too expensive for average users. I like the emergency-for-free option. That is an ace that GM should market like crazy.
2) What is the bandwidth of the OnStar system? Soon 3G and even 4G networks will be available all over the U.S. (and many parts of the world). These are incredibly fast and users will already have it on their phones. Thus, it could be easily extended to the car they are driving in at almost no additional cost. How will GM compete with that? Faster 4G speeds and perhaps no extra cost to the phone owner?
3) How will this system compare to Better Place? They will already have tightly integrated communication to the car when charging. They have already demonstrated shifted charging and other cool features. This communication will be Ethernet fast and cost almost nothing. Then again, BP is not going to be up and running in the U.S. anytime soon.
Thus, I like the potential of having cars connected full-time to the Internet but am worried about GM falling behind in both speed and cost. I hope they are planning to take full advantage of the new phone networks.
Did they say $299 ($25 / month)? No way! That’s far more expensive than any cost savings that could be obtained from the service (not including emergency situations, but those are already free).
I believe if the service was sufficiently advanced, helpful and was reasonably priced then OnStar would be a great advantage for GM. We need a killer app at a minimal price.
+2
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:58 am)Software costs money to devlop–and plenty of it. It’s true that it’s essentially all development cost and no production cost, but the sunk costs still do have to be amortized in the production run.
So, yes, you’re paying for it.
On the other hand, as far as time is concerned, the people doing all the OnStar stuff and whatnot are likely totally different people than could work on the more basic aspects of the car. Being by nature a parallel effort, it’s not likely to be slowing anything down. That is, of course, unless they do something stupid like require some sort of perfect utility integration before they can roll out a handful or cars. Oh, wait…
+2
Oct 21st, 2009 (11:23 am)What GM needs to keep in mind here is the spirit of American (and many other) vehicle owners. A vehicle is an expression of free will. Owners want to be able to get in a go on the spur of the moment. Too much programmed linkage to utility companies will interrupt that.
GM must demonstrate to owners of Volt and their next line of products that owning a GM vehicle gives them a semblance of freedom. From wage gouging gas prices, gas-related add on taxes, carbon taxes, interest bearing oil company credit cards, and petrochemical pollutants. Going electric means no smog checks, incredible mileage, low energy cost, and “refueling” at home.
On Star data exchange with GM and ESPECIALLY with a utility must be owner selectable. In the way that web sites respect privacy of browsers (or should) GM must reassure owners of Volt that it is they who are deciding how much or little data exchange takes place. IF Volt makes rate shopping possible via On Star – it should be clear that the software needs owner authorization to set up the program. If driving habits and locations and routes are to be analyzed by GM data bases – it MUST be clear that owners must grant permission for this tracking to take place.
While Volt represents the next century of GM product development – GM should not forget the basic winning message to consumers: this vehicle represents unprecedented freedom from old school technology and systems. With a Chevy Volt you are freed from the bonds of petroleum economy and enter an age of clean, low cost, abundant energy. If they make that message clear – their new fortunes will dwarf the best of the past.
Oct 21st, 2009 (11:25 am)Rashiid:
Reminds me of the great Jonathan Winters routine from the ’60s, “Elwood P Suggins And His Automobile”.
“Push this button, eject that person!”
Nothing new under the sun.
Oct 21st, 2009 (11:27 am)Tibor:
Very cool. +1
Oops, sorry, ended up in the wrong place. I guess I got ahead of myself. See #5 above.
Oct 21st, 2009 (11:29 am)In the future, remote speeding tickets could be the case.
However, Onstar could be used by GM right now – to detect any severe driving habits that could be used to null the Volt’s warranty. It depends exactly how well Onstar is tied into the Volt’s operating system. Hmmmmm….
It doesn’t matter to me anyway. There are so many speed cameras in DC, it feels like I’m in SuperJail.
Oct 21st, 2009 (11:36 am)Dan Petit & nasaman:
My wife is going to love it. We will have the full package, without a doubt.
She fell in love with the nav system in the real estate lady’s Prius. I finally broke down and bought her a Garmin box down at Costco. She really loved it, and used it everywhere she went for about a week. Now it’s in the glovebox, and I haven’t seen it for months. What else is new?
Oh well, this contraption is built into the dash, so maybe you don’t have to hide it every time you get done with it to discourage the thieves. So maybe it’ll get used a bit more. It doesn’t matter though, gotta have it!
Oct 21st, 2009 (11:37 am)Just to complete my previous post #25, read the interview of Shai Agassi on CNN Money :
http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/14/technology/better_place_agassi.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009101509
Regards,
JC NPNS
Oct 21st, 2009 (11:41 am)The last page of Autoweek, actually I guess it’s “AW” now, since it only comes every 2 weeks, LOL, is called “But Wait, There’s More”, aka BWTM. It is by far the funniest page in automotive journalism (although I guess that wouldn’t be too hard, actually), and well worth the price of the subscription.
They have a cartoon superhero in a red, white and blue sort of Superman/Batman suit called “Captain Obvious”. He is presentedd along with quotes such as the one you noted above. I thought that they had invented him, but evidently not.
Anyway, well done!
Oct 21st, 2009 (11:45 am)eightzero:
Well, when Onstar can bust every single person in this country who speeds, there will be plenty of money to fix the roads, LOL. Assuming that’s what they spend the $$$ on, of course.
Oct 21st, 2009 (11:50 am)Jean-Charles:
I’m thinking Shai Agassi, Carlos Ghosn and Bob Lutz, LOL. And maybe the head of BYD, whose name i disremember and/or Warren Buffett.
What a great question. Oh the possibilities!
Oct 21st, 2009 (11:52 am)CaptJackSparrow said it a lot more eloquently than I ever could yesterday, but here’s my bottom line:
KISS – LJGTVWOTR!!
Sooner rather than later, please.
Oct 21st, 2009 (11:58 am)Dav
I want the onstar but only so GM can down load updates and keep track of how my car is performing. The grid thing is not that importamt to me. I can tell time.
Oct 21st, 2009 (12:02 pm)Right Noel, look at what GM is doing in India with the Spark EV, perhaps we should move to Kerala or New Delhi.
Regards
JC NPNS
Oct 21st, 2009 (12:13 pm)I think most of us on this site just want the Volt in production as soon as possible, without adding any ‘over and above’ features. I want to be able to go to the local Chevy dealership, pick my color, ‘basic’ option package, and drive it out (hopefully with a full charge!). I could see possiblities like updating my 2010 Volt firmware to upgrade some of the features (like grid control), but I think the main point is give me as much of a basic Volt as quickly as possible without adding too many unecessary bells and whistles!
Oct 21st, 2009 (12:20 pm)Maybe,
But when I read..
” Posawatz also cautions that the ability of the car to communicate with local utilities will limit the pace of the car’s rollout.
“It certainly won’t be a nation-wide roll-out (at first),” he said. The whole nation might not see these cars until sometime in 2011. ”
It sure sounds like he is talking about slowing down the introduction of the car to many parts of the country based on teh ability of the car to communicate with local utilities.
I would say that maybe this is just someone thinking out loud. In general, the rollout of the car is going to be slow and it may make sense to focus the cars into selected areas at first. No matter what they do, if they are producing 10,000 cars for the 2011 model year, most of the country will not see the car until late in 2011 anyway so this is a moot point.
Either way, I still don’t think V1.0 should communicate with the utilities.
Oct 21st, 2009 (12:22 pm)Off topic, more attitude from Carlos Ghosn coming in from Tokyo.
http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2009/10/nissan-leaf-2009-tokyo-auto-show.html
/or not
+2
Oct 21st, 2009 (12:30 pm)“This may cause a problem with CARB or even the CAFE numbers”
=———————————————————————————————————=
I don’t think it will, Greg. The CARB and CAFE numbers are calculated according to a standard formula. The way you drive has nothing to do with it.
Even now, if you drive the pedal to the metal, it doesn’t change the way your car is rated.
+3
Oct 21st, 2009 (12:32 pm)GM shouldn’t underestimate the repulsion many people have about Big-Brotherish features…They should be optional, easy to disable, etc…That recent story about the car-jacked SUV that was recovered without a crash after OnStar disabled the accelerator (upon request of the owner). It was amazingly cool, might have saved lives, but it’s also a little freaky.
Oct 21st, 2009 (12:34 pm)“And if the utility says no, I can’t use electricity at noon while at the mall,
well, I’m with nuclearboy, this would really piss me off.”
Rashiid,
There could be a nuclear melt down….
Oct 21st, 2009 (12:35 pm)if you are providing your own power, they will cut you off at a utility peak?
I doubt it because you are not connected to the grid.
Oct 21st, 2009 (12:36 pm)no..because there is no grid connected..you can get that information over thepower lines..not a cell receiver.
+4
Oct 21st, 2009 (12:37 pm)Nuclearboy, I cannot agree more. I wish I could vote many times. It’s pure BS. Reminds me of the old GM, the one that crashed.
Linking the availability of the car to some sort of capability my utility will (or will not) provide is wrong. There are plenty of things to tweak right now, this is not one of them.
Get the car on the road and show people why they should buy it, not why GM should not sell the car to the people.
Oct 21st, 2009 (12:45 pm)Working in manufacturing, and having worked in utilities, I cxan tell you it is unlikely that the Volt will get grid info via cell or Onstar.
data can be transmitted over power lines, and in many places the electric utility is an internet provider (lets face it we almost all have a plug in our home), the utility can just send pulse signals over the wire, saves them 100,000+ calls a day as volt owners plug in.
So if you are self generating power, there is no grid signal to slow / delay charging. It COMES THROUGHT THE PLUG…
think about it…lets say there are 10,000 volts in DC..all owners are average workers and get home between 5 and 6 pm, and plug in..the local utility will get 10,000 call in an hour to access SENSITIVE grid info..
really think it will happen? no, security reasons aside..that call volume even in a backdoor private access would MURDER a phone system, its 3 calls per second average, and it is entirely possible that you can get 1/2 (5000) in a 5 minute span. and a regular number is a security risk. a code rader on a plug in the vehicle..more safe..transmit 1′s (binary) ok to charge, transmit 0′s not ok, alternatre 0 then 1, reduce rate., car rads it and charges accordingly.
likely the grid information will NOT be onstar.
Oct 21st, 2009 (1:08 pm)The Grump:
I read a story recently about a car rental company which had some sort of a GPS nav system in its cars. It seems that this thing could track the speed. They had a fine print paragraph somewhere in the rental agreement about penalties for exceeding the speed limit. When people turned the cars in, they checked the system, and hit them with a HEALTHY extra charge if they had driven too fast.
My sense is that they got so many complaints that they quit it, but it’s an interesting cautionary tale.
Of course, I’m such a law abiding citizen that it doesn’t matter to me, but it’s fun to speculate. Isn’t that what they always say, “What’s your problem? If you’re not breaking the law you have nothing to worry about.” Warrantless wiretaps come to mind. Beware of the slippery slope.
Oct 21st, 2009 (1:18 pm)Jean-Charles:
I saw that via the link which someone so graciously provided yesterday. I was just thinking this morning how great it would be to have one of those, if it would go fast enough and have enough range to get me back and forth to work.
As I said yesterday, i find it difficult to understand why these sort of advanced products, including the Cruze, are being introduced all over the world before they make it to the U.S.
Anyway, it is pretty frustrating, but no enough so to convince me to move to Kerala or Delhi, to be quite honest with you.
Best regards to you.
Oct 21st, 2009 (1:24 pm)carcus1:
I couldn’t get the link to work, but it’s probably all for the best. I can just imagine, LOL. I can respect Carlos Ghosn, but that doesn’t mean I have to like him.
I look forward to the day when I can drive my EREV Volt past the Nissan dealerships with all of the BEV Leaves (Leafs?) they can’t sell parked out on the lot.
Oct 21st, 2009 (1:38 pm)I remember hearing that for 2010, we were looking at several thousand, like 3,000 Volts. For for 2011 we were looking at 60,000 and from their what ever the market needs.
Remember too, most other EV’s that will be introduced will also be selectivity introduced to specific areas. It’s just not the Volt doing this.
Oct 21st, 2009 (2:03 pm)What happens if there is no cell signal available? My cell phone dies every time I’m in the garage. The availability of OnStar service should not dictate where the Volt can be sold. It would be unconscionable for GM to build a vehicle that wouldn’t operate properly without the service.
Oct 21st, 2009 (2:06 pm)That is correct… The power train is the same… it is like the Camaro and Firebird being the same … the Cobalt and the Sunfire..
Basically the same… just rebadged
Oct 21st, 2009 (2:07 pm)Yeah. And the ‘Mother-in-Law’ seat in the back!
Oct 21st, 2009 (2:10 pm)I think OnStar is satellite-based. Fewer dropouts.
Oct 21st, 2009 (2:15 pm)I saw the recent number of 2-3000 in 2010 also.
The old numbers of 10,000 in the first year were used much more often.
see.
http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/19/lutz-gm-to-build-10000-volts-in-first-year-and-60000-in-second-year/
I hope they make more than 10K of the 2011 model but we will see.
Oct 21st, 2009 (2:19 pm)I also think it is erroneous to state that electric vehicle customers are very into data. I’ve been an electrical engineer and electric vehicle enthusiast for 30 years and I hate data. Data has many privacy and personal security risks associated with it. The article even speaks of very sensitive utility data. In my experience data lulls engineers down the path of building bad systems by relying on active controls too much when passive systems are much more robust. Software isn’t always the answer and the farther away from local intelligence you get the more brittle the system becomes. Just ask the truckers running into bridges because their GPS indicated they could take that particular route.
Oct 21st, 2009 (2:59 pm)For the Volt v.1, GM would best use a KISS strategy and focus on providing a bulletproof product with an absence of fussy things associated with it that could very well dampen enthusiam. I can just see now the auto publications saying, ‘while we like it, it’s not perfect’ because of imperfect ancillary items such as an overly complicated OnStar system.
GM already has a leg up on the competition with OnStar; minor tweaks for the Volt would be as far as I’d go at this point. Let the Volt’s revolutionary powertrain be its signature, and keep the OnStar system from becoming a complicated distraction until after a very positive market identity for the Volt (and GM) has been carefully and firmly established.
Oct 21st, 2009 (3:33 pm)It’s satellite for GPS but Cellular telecom for the rest.
Oct 21st, 2009 (3:34 pm)Wher’d my post go? I had this long drawn out gripe against Onstar but it’s gone?
lol…….or did I not click submit?
Should lay off the Saki Bombs at lunch.
Oct 21st, 2009 (3:54 pm)So lemme ask EVERYONE who drives a car now….
Does your current ICE powered car need to communicate anything to OPEC to see if you can “Fill up”?
Does your current Hybrid powered car need to communicate anything to OPEC or Utilities to see if you can “Fill up”?
Does your current DIY BEV powered car need to communicate anything to Utilities to see if you can “Fill up” your charge?
Onstar is not necessary for any of the consumers, it’s more stats pulling or “phishing” for data for GM and ultimately Govt.
“Phishing” is the precise behavior GM will be getting from your driving behaviors. Do you like your internet behavior “known” by someone else?
/End rant
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:19 pm)Hello Grid,
This is the Chevy Volt OnStar system. We have to ask you some sensitive questions about the state of your electrons. First off do you have any “Free” electrons available? If so what is the carbon footprint of these electrons. The Chevy Volt OnStar system is very sensitive to what type of electrons are available, and must check if these electrons are suitable to be used by the Chevy Volt electronic drive system. Electrons will be rated by a point system. Points are added to the electrons if they are created with solar or wind power. Additional points may be added if naturally occurring biomass is used, such as cow manure or landfill methane. The value of these points will be adjusted just before every election. In addition points will be subtracted if the electrons are created using fossil fuels. Electrons produced with coal will have a triple negative value, except for the states of Tennessee and West Virginia, where the will actually have bonus points. Electrons using hydro electric generation for their creation will be rewarded double points, except if the OnStar system detects the owner of the Volt has a fishing license. At which point the points will become triple negative. In addition if the OnStar system detects union or professional membership of the owner the value of individual points may be adjusted according to the latest lobbyist rate for that profession. The value of those points will go through a double jeopardy system, before and after every election.
In addition the location of the electrons will be graded and can adjust the point system. Electrons that arrive with free coffee for the owner of the Volt will receive an upgrade of value. Also let it be noted that any electrons that come with a valet and free dinner for the owner, will receive the highest of ratings. In comparison if the electrons come with three or more drinks to the owner, they shall also be diverted to the owner. Thank you and welcome to the Chevy Volt OnStare electron rating system.
Cheers
Red HHR
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:24 pm)Brian.
Sir, you have a cell phone. “They” (or anyone else possibly) already know where you are. If parents can do it with software to track their their kids phones, likely there is a hacked version of it for anyone to track anyone if they just know the phone number. Sad, is it not?
Lesson: No such thing as privacy anymore. And, you’d always better do the “right thing”, especially anyone who thinks they can ever “get away” from anything.
GM clearly states that this stuff is “with the customer’s permission”.
But, if anything is going to help you get a little bit higher to be in a better position to get the opportunity firstly to buy a Volt, helping GM to get data is likely a really big thing, I’d bet, at least for data transmission. (I want to say “hi” to Britta on the ONstar).
So there ought not be any surprise to anyone if someone gets to “jump toward the head of the “line” (if there officially was one), to get the opportunity to buy a Volt.
Speeding is not abuse, nor would it likely affect warranty, and, there are strict ethical standards GM most strictly upholds.
Abuse, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. It is seen immediately within the datastream as “Abuse Management Active/Inactive.” And, it shows up in multiple data subgroups if, say, someone was power braking. Definitely immediately knowable even by us independent techs who can often get blamed for something “junior” “didn’t do”.
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:24 pm)Aye, Captian.
See my post below…
Best read after Saki Bombs…
Cheers
Red
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:31 pm)Way off topic…
“15 return their rides under gms money back program so far”
http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2009/10/15-return-their-rides-under-gms-money-back-program-so-far.html
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:34 pm)hmmm “Censorship”?
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:35 pm)Rashiid, I agree with you entirely. You just said it better than me!
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:38 pm)PS.
I also promise to stop misspelling OnStar.
(Even spell check redlines the right spelling).
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:38 pm)Yes, the KISS principle!
I’ve followed your comments for the better part of 2-years now and it is amazing how often we agree. Just wish I had your way with words!
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:44 pm)So if i’m Ed Begly Jr and my house is “off grid” and the Volt talks to Onstar and the grid tells Onstar that it’s overloaded and I can’t charge….
WTF?
lol….jus sayn.
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:46 pm)I think what we need to take from it is, what really do not know yet what the real production numbers will be. My bet is, it will be higher than what was originally planned. Gm hasn’t really even marketed the Volt yet even with all the press it has gotten so far. Starting next year, I think you’ll see a big increase in interest in the vehicle.
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:47 pm)So if telecom/telemetrics is offline because the Aurora Borealis slowly passes over for 10hrs, when will my Volt get the “go ahead” to charge?
WTF?
lol….jus sayn.
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:51 pm)So if the cellular carriers upgrade out of CDMA to only operate in the EVDO/G3 RF band will Onstar’s hardware magically tune to the higher freq? Will the required “out of band” FFC regulations be relaxed so the modulation can be shifter to the EVDO/G3 RF band? Will the RF filters magically re-tune their physical RF characteristics to the new RF band?
WTF?
lol….jus sayn.
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:52 pm)Just serve coffee with them electrons…
Ed’s electrons (unlike mine) are highly rated…
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:53 pm)Been bounced off here myself, no other explanin…
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:56 pm)For safety purposes, I think I will add an “Isolation transformer” to my charging 220VAC charging circuit with ferrite beads at both ends and make sure nothing bad happens to my home wiring if something bad happens at the charging end.
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:56 pm)As for destination/energy management.
It could be as simple as programming “go to routes” into the navigation system. The car would manage energy based on its destination. By using the touch screen you could select your destination just like any good GPS system. Hopefully the route would change based on real time traffic conditions as well. GPS systems and been getting easier and easier over the last 12 years, find out what works best and develop a similar approach.
Oct 21st, 2009 (4:58 pm)My wit is over two…
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:02 pm)Ed’s are too bitter in flava….
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:03 pm)Whats wit u???
AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:07 pm)I think this is a great capability that Onstar provides:
“When two Visalia (Tulare County) police officers swung their cruisers behind a sport utility vehicle that had been carjacked at gunpoint early Sunday, they prepared for a dangerous high-speed chase.
The 2009 Chevrolet Tahoe roared away with officers in pursuit, but shortly after the suspect made a right turn, operators at General Motors Co.’s OnStar service sent a command that electronically disabled the gas pedal and the SUV gradually came to a halt.”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/20/MN531A7QVL.DTL
I grant that it is a little spooky that Big Brother can control certain functions of your car, but properly implemented it can obviously do good.
Lyle asked for other ideas. This one is more about Onstar itself than for the Volt. I’m wondering if there is some creative way to use for these tragic incidents where kids are forgotten or left in sealed, hot cars. These incidents happen every summer and there is no doubt they will continue to happen. Onstar saving lives; you’d have to be pretty hopeless to argue with that.
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:13 pm)Naaa, I would prefer the tasty coal flava, over imported…
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:14 pm)Anybody in for a talking power cord?
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:16 pm)Would I be able to ask my car to just take me home?
I would have to draw the line if the car attempted to get my out of bed for work!
Cheers
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:19 pm)Well I have to admit, we have a possibility here. If all GM cars were viewed as “bait cars” then nobody would steal them and the insurance would go down???
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:19 pm)That is a great idea! for folks who are willing to buy Onstar that is a great feature.
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:22 pm)Huh, what is wrong with a circuit breaker?
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:25 pm)Don’t get me wrong, I don’ oppose Onstar. I jus highly dislike the “mandatoryness” (if that’s a word) of something like this in a car.
It’s going to be like how Microsoft sez….
“Windows is not integrated into the OS, it can run without it….”
Yeah right!
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:29 pm)I guess it’s better than “the white Bronco, heading toward Orange County…..”
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:34 pm)Isolation xformer with RF absorbing ferrite beads will also absorb “rogue signals” in the power line as well there will never be a “physical” connection to the grid thus eliminate grid comm link.
You were joking weren’t U?
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:36 pm)That’s on my “Santa’s List” with Megan Fox’s voice. You should hear it when it gets plugged in!!!
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:39 pm)Whatever happend to KISS. This is a car right? Getcha one place to another? My current “driving experience” is normal and my cars are pretty normal and none need to talk to anything or anyone when it needs to get filled up, just a LBL (little blinking light). Why change that?
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:40 pm)Is this what you wanted?
http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2009/10/nissan-leaf-at-the-2009-tokyo-auto-show.html
Oct 21st, 2009 (5:44 pm)OK, Then I do not give them permission to turn on the Onstar device.
Will that work?
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:04 pm)AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!
u funny guy….
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:05 pm)Utilities should cover part of the OnStar cost in case we agree upon ‘Volt rate’ with possible restrictions of charging durng day time peack hours and set optimal charging time starting from midnight. In that case energy productio cost for VOLT will be just zero takin into account efficiency improvement and load evening.
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:14 pm)Shit, I meant…
“Internet Explorer is not integrated into the OS, it can run without it….”
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:17 pm)Just a thought, how much would it cost if the Onstar device broke in the car?
lol…..jus curious.
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:34 pm)I don’t think this would require Onstar or should be an adder in cost, but since your asking…Let the buyer maximize their use of the battery.
Under operation so far described by GM, there is some compacity kept in reserve for extreme circumstances. They haven’t divulged how much but it could be anywhere from 5-10% that is between charge sustaining initiation point and ultimate customer depletion point. It has been explained that this capacity will be tapped into during exteme operation such as extended hill climbs at high speeds. Well…living in South Florida, I don’t need or want this capacity rotting away to the calendar. Let georgraphic positioning open up this capacity when hill climbs are not within a certain distance (~50 miles). The generator could easily bring the SOC up to the charge sustaining point once the car is within range. In my case, this would be NEVER. Don’t try to say that draining to the ultimate point (25 or 30% SOC) would endanger battery life. That is BS.
Not for me but others may really want a parent control app for Onstar. See where your teenager has been, currently is, and how fast it has been driving.
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:38 pm)Maybe Onstar already has this but a good current traffic app would be great. Something like what the IPhone has.
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:39 pm)Not for me but for those with kids and if Onstar has enough bandwidth, movies and interactive gaming would be cool.
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:43 pm)“talking power cord” —>
what a wonderful idea. Delay the Volt if you must, but get that cord.
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:43 pm)Sorry there boss, bandwidth is very limited and even if they could, it would be low resolution and might look like animation with power point presentations slide flipping.
Try it on a 3G phone and stream a video. On my phone it’s pretty choppy.
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:45 pm)Garmin and TomTom have great products that already do that. AND, you can take it with you if you go hiking.
I think you’re right, they may already do that and it might be in one of those tiered packages they mentioned in previous posts above.
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:51 pm)I had a little blinky light on my Austin Healy Sprite (a car that made the Model T look regal). On a road rally, in the middle of the night in the darkest of corners of New Jersey it cam on and illumined the cockpit with the brightest of red light….
“What’s that?” “Dunno, never came on before” “You ever see it light up?” “Naaa”
Moments later we were greeted with the thumping of a rod knock… Now the little light was a mystery. There were exactly two wires to the engine. One for the coil, and one for water temp. The oil gauge was mechanical. The wire from the light itself disappeared into the marginal wiring loom. We yanked the engine out, OK we used a two by four and replaced it with another. Years latter the little light came on…
“Yikes! You remember the last time that came on?” “What are the odds?”
Well the odds were pretty good, I still have the light…
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:53 pm)The latest word from GM development is that the sticker price on the Volt will be just under 40k. OnStar, being a standard feature, shouldn’t bump the price over 40k. 70,000 Volt owners paying the $300+- OnStar fee will generate $21 million annually.
Wouldn’t be at all surprised if 1/3 the vehicles purchased in 2012 are either strong hybrid, EV, or EREV. This can easily be 1/2 by 2015.
Just wait until the good thing catches on.
=D~
Oct 21st, 2009 (6:55 pm)Why is Onstar on only 19 IVers but will be on 100% of the production cars?
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:01 pm)Not really, I thought you were. I was not thinking about having the electrons talk to each other. Your proposal would keep them from talking. Lets say some signal from the charging station would prevent the morning charge of the car, and there was bad gas in the tank I would be miffed… Talking electrons would have to be downgraded!
Besides, would I really want Sara Palin talking to my car?
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:16 pm)cAPTAIN
Not bad! There had to be many more who bought just so they could stick it to GM.
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (7:37 pm)The monthly fee when I was subscribing to onstar was $17.99/month. I’d bet $1000 that GM will make the Volt just like any other onstar equipped vehicle. You get the 1st year free, and pay for the year(s) after that inital year. This is a cash generating feature, you bet they’ll want to charge you, to tell you your battery is doing fine.
So if you want to take advantage of Onstar, when you plug in at home, I’m sure you’ll need to subscribe. I kind of see their point, but were paying a premium for the car to begin with, and GM clains they’ll be losing money to begin with. I think the battery charge feature should be free through Onstar, but I’ll bet it won’t be.
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:02 pm)You know damn well, they won’t, but will lie to you and say they do.
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:11 pm)Yes, GM uses a version of CANBUS, but they call it DATABUS.. People have intergrated radar detectors through the DIC (display information center) via DATABUS.
Oct 21st, 2009 (8:35 pm)Anything can be deactivated somehow if it would be safe to do so, and no systems were impacted.
However. Voltec is an entirely new SET of new technologies, new systems, new procedures, new software sets, new factory support programs, new driving procedures, new expectations, new care considerations, new business relationships, and on and on with about another two dozen “new” types of you-name-it that most all of us have never heard about.
It would be ridiculous from my perspective to have all those new sorts of things and NOT have telemetry going to GM engineering at all times. This isn’t invasion of privacy at all, it is THE MOST exceptional customer care in real time which, in all of history, has never occurred to the extent that GM will be protecting your Volt’s new systems. It really is a necessity.
Think of it as lots of engineers “taking care of business” in the background, taking care of you with the highest ethical standards. Nothing like this has EVER happened before in HISTORY, taking care of you and the vehicle this well, the way they are setting up the Volt.
No way that I would drive without Volt’s OnStar keeping in contact with “home” for all this new stuff. Just no way.
As a matter of fact, all the other practical comments within this thread today have absolutely convinced me that it would be more of a necessity than it is considered by most to be a luxury, even if it were not a Volt I would be buying next.
199 bucks a whole year is nothing at all for all it will do.
There just seems to be too much privacy-worry. It’s just a better version of a fancy cell phone. (I never get more than the free VERY BASIC cell phone at contract renewal. Don’t like all that tech garbage in it, nor a camera.
Just yesterday, the tiny tiny tiny inch by inch and a half screen had these microscopic letters inviting me to try it as an internet device (**LOL**). It was on the dash when a new blue colored backlit message lit up on it, and, I had to pull over to park, get out a magnifying glass, and read the first four words of an 8 word sentence before the backlight went off. Pretty undesirable what all gets crammed into a cell phone that’s unnecessary stuff I don’t want. NOR SHOULD CELL PHONE COMPANIES TRANSMIT TEXT TO A MOVING CELL PHONE FOR LESS THAN A 5 MINUTE STATIONARY SIGNAL!)
(What is it with people who have to strain their eyes to text on a cellphone while driving slower, and, dangerously? There ought to be mandatory software loaded into all phones that, if texting EVER occurs during a cell tower “hand-off”/vehicle moving, the phone is shut off except for 311 or 911 for the duration of the movement.)
But that OnStar is really a necessity for the Volt, it truly is.
Folks need to accept that GM’s strict ethical standards are highly adherent to the customer’s privacy. Perhaps a “chime” and a displayed message on the center screen when you first get into it could be set up like a voice mail.
When I first got a cell phone in 1985, I would always over-react in order to answer it (because it was expensive at $1300 a year). But as time went by, I got used to it but just enough to tolerate its minimal function as a necessity.
I think I will get used to OnStar quickly. I know I’d get spoiled by it within just a few minutes at most, because of that low cost of it per year. (I always thought it was way up there at about $600 a year. It’s really nice to find out these things here on this site).
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:17 pm)You can do that if you run Ubuntu with WINE.
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:26 pm)replying to all in this thread.
____________________________
I will be surprised if GM is not prepared to meet a higher demand than 10,000 the first production year. They need to show that when the sales are there, they can meet the demand. With the IPO supposed to come out about mid 2010, the issue is very important.
2,000 -3000 in 2010 would be 1,500 per month average, with the balance of 7,000 from January – July of 2011. Then a month vacation while the plants are retooled for the next production year, and new production beginning in September and 60,000 planned production for the second year. Hopefully those numbers will change when demand for the volt materializes in orders at the dealers show rooms.
I also do not expect the Volt to interface with the utilities for some time, definitely not Gen 1.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:40 pm)Regardless of the technology, BEV, EREV, Lux car, get the data when I bring it to the dealer for service. The telecom/telemetrics is available in cell coverage areas.
Murphy’s law states that you will break down in a black spot. Let’s take their commercial on where someone rams into a tree and move the scnario up to the Sierra Nevada’s after skiing. No cell coverage for CDMA/TDMA/AMPS/EVDO/3G. Onstar has no idea what has happened.
“Voltec is an entirely new SET of new technologies, new systems, new procedures, new software sets, new factory support programs, new driving procedures, new expectations, new care considerations, new business relationships, and on and on with about another two dozen “new” types of you-name-it that most all of us have never heard about.”
This is my interpretation…
Voltec is an entirely new SET of new technologies to breakdown and adds cost to repair,
new systems to breakdown and adds cost to repair,
new procedures to break and adds cost to repair,
new software sets to break/debu and adds cost to repair,
new factory support programs to breakdown and adds cost to repair,
new care considerations to breakdown and adds cost to repair,
and on with about another two dozen “new” types of you-name-it to breakdown and adds cost to repair that most all of us have never heard about.
If a car rams a tree in the forest, does it make a call?
Sure that sounds far fetched but remember murphy’s law, that mofo seems to hit all the time. Let’s also not forget if/when the wireless carriers move everything up to EVDO and dump CDMA/TDMA/AMPS.
Call me ol fashioned Dan but get the data when I bring it in for service and don’t have a system tell me when I can and can’t charge..
Oct 21st, 2009 (9:49 pm)“Voltec is an entirely new SET of new technologies, new systems, new procedures, new software sets, new factory support programs, new driving procedures, new expectations, new care considerations, new business relationships, and on and on with about another two dozen “new” types of you-name-it that most all of us have never heard about.”
This is my interpretation…
Voltec is an entirely new SET of new technologies to breakdown and adds cost to repair,
new systems to breakdown and adds cost to repair,
new procedures to break and adds cost to repair,
new software sets to break/debu and adds cost to repair,
new factory support programs to breakdown and adds cost to repair,
new care considerations to breakdown and adds cost to repair,
and on with about another two dozen “new” types of you-name-it to breakdown and adds cost to repair that most all of us have never heard about.
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:01 pm)19 IVERs are being *monitored* with it. I took that to mean additional hardware and telemetry was involved, above and beyond normal OnStar.
+1
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:08 pm)Netflix & buffering
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:12 pm)Small screens on portables, batteries, forgetting, dropping, spilling. Better to have it built in, IMO.
Oct 21st, 2009 (10:37 pm)Just saw this message in facebook, i thought i too have to spread this :
Chevrolet Volt For those of you who would sell your soul to drive a Volt, check back here or on Chevrolet VoltAge tomorrow. You may just get your chance. This year. Really. -Phil
from :http://www.facebook.com/chevroletvolt#/chevroletvolt?v=wall
Oct 22nd, 2009 (1:05 am)Agreed Noel, but it would be possible – I think – to do like Nasaman intended to do with the Ampera, to go there and bring them home.
be well, JC
NPNS
Oct 22nd, 2009 (1:54 am)What if I don’t want GM monitoring everything I do with the car? Can I actually disable OnStar by pulling a fuse or wearing a tinfoil hat or something? Furthermore, I can’t help but wonder what actual features that the car ought to have included in the purchase price are going to be held hostage by hundreds of dollars of yearly fees? I’m really not too thrilled with the whole OnStar thing, really.
Also, I’m not at all excited about the idea of the car and the power company controlling what I do, either. I mean, I’m looking forward to smart devices that I can control (I already have servers controlling the coordination between my central air, solar system and weather information) but I’m not interested in relinquishing that control to any other entity especially since they are paying so very, very little for that privilege, currently. Time of use metering is one thing (I have that now) but actually letting them pay you what amounts to practically nothing so they can turn off your appliances (and now car) whenever they want is totally out of the question for me.
Maybe I’m just being overly paranoid today (Is that MLB satellite watching me?) but not only do I not like to sell out control, I sure don’t like to sell it out cheaply!
Oct 22nd, 2009 (3:36 am)it never breaks
Oct 22nd, 2009 (6:01 am)I too hope they can beat the 10,000 number. In the grand scheme of things, 10,000 cars is a very small number.
I also agree with you on the interface with the utilities. I cannot see this being practical in the short term.
Oct 22nd, 2009 (6:20 am)There are several ways NGMCO can unfold the Volt. Recent news is that a very small number will be issed to selected markets a little over a year from now.
NGMCO could go full bore with production and have 80,000 Volt units available for sale in 2011. This will either be a huge hit with all selling quickly at $40,000 each. Or it may see a slower demand wherein NGMCO would need to lower the price to $36,000 (very unlikely).
There is one factor that’s out of the control of NGMCO. From 2010 and forward other manufactures will be releasing new EV and EREV cars. Add the newer effcient strong hybrids as well. This competition should double and then re-double each year.
Which is the better way to go? Testing the waters with 10,000 world wide units in 2011? Or meeting the competition head on with a flood of Chevy Volt?
=D~
Oct 22nd, 2009 (6:36 am)I like their approach.
I think selling tons of the initial Volt is risky and going slow at first is good. It is common for 1st year cars to have a recall and the Volt is so new that the risk is even higher.
I think GM should unleash a flood of cars with Volt V2.0 which should incorporate the lessons learned from V1.0 to improve quality, reduce cost, and improve performance.
Perhaps V2.0 should be a 2013 or 2014 model year.
Oct 22nd, 2009 (6:52 am)Trust me Estero, you do just fine.
Oct 22nd, 2009 (7:45 am)If I had to guess I would think of it this way: More than likely cars will have AI there will be defaults like performance, or maybe MPG KIng.
Cars will be designed to have fun with other drivers maybe my car will be able to compete with your more aggressive driving during the week, so It could show the Win on my display and the manufactures website with a crown insignia as MPG King!
Being MPG King for a month might earn me credits from the Dealer towards new features,like discounted maintenance, free software performance upgrades in the future…..
If I get service at dealerships maybe more credits towards an upgrade to 2nd generation hardware?? when available…
I see these typs of cars as a fun to drive car with VERY advanced and cool features allowing customized flexibility. I think we can assume there will be full duplex communications between the car and “Users”.
Also the Governments might give tax breaks if my driving for a year saves energy. Much like an energy tax credit as long as I own the car.
Just dreaming.
Oct 22nd, 2009 (10:26 am)Captain 5:29 pm:
“If it doesn’t fit, you must acquit.”
Oct 22nd, 2009 (10:28 am)koz:
Amen. nasaman says that the Onstar mapping system is the best he’s seen. That’s good enough for me.
Oct 22nd, 2009 (10:30 am)Dave:
Where did you hear that about the price of the Volt? Do you mean before the tax credit? If true, that’s the biggest news of the year.
As to the percentages of strong hybrids, PHEVs and EVs, God send that it shall be true!
Oct 22nd, 2009 (2:57 pm)As a software developer I like to, behind the scenes, save “usage” info so that we can analyse which features are being used, by whom, and how often (corporate industrial software, not public personal stuff). For eample “how often do users use the “undo” feature?” (the “undo” feature is a big pain in the neck to develop and code).
I can imagine that the auto companies would love to be able to collect all kinds of data about a car’s usage in the real world.
+1
Oct 23rd, 2009 (10:42 am)I do not want On-Star. Too nosey. They need to make that an option and not a standard or provide the information to remove the on-star feature set from the vehicle. I agree with the KISS process. GM keeps doing things that are more and more making me reconsider purchasing a Volt.
Oct 23rd, 2009 (6:30 pm)Yeah — I love the idea of other people having OnStar.
But for me? No — my privacy is a blurry balance, but it’s pretty clear that handing off so much of personal information to a giant multinational corporation is beyond what my personal sense of privacy will allow — even though I’m pretty sure nobody would ever look at it.
Heck, I thought it was creepy when a far-away Ford callcenter rang me to remind me of a 115k-mile service. It would have been fine if it had been someone at my Ford local dealership(we have a 2-way relationship and trust them with my safety), but the big callcenter in the sky’s model of my driving had produced a disturbingly accurate guess of my odometer reading — even though I hadn’t been to the dealer in months. It took me a while to remember that my local dealer must obviously be sharing their service database with Ford Motor Company. As I said, creepy.
And OnStar is even creepier than that.
But really, I want my car to just be a car — so that I can relax and take off my computer-security hat on my way home from work.
Oct 29th, 2009 (6:38 pm), ,
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