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Guest-Post: Magna Group Reportedly Pulls Plug on Building Ampera
It was long thought that shortly after the Chevrolet Volt went into production in Michigan that a plant would open in Europe to produce the Ampera.
The front runner for this plant had been the Ellesmere Port plant in the United Kingdom, given the strong backing of the state government, and their willingness to subsidize the project to protect jobs.
On Tuesday, however, the Magna consortium reportedly decided it will not produce the Volt’s cousin at this time, and that the reason for this decision is that they feel demand will not exceed the amount of investment needed at this time.
In a report first brought forth by British media, it was said that Magna did not shut the door on ever producing the Ampera in UK, but felt it would not likely again consider that as a option until 2015 or 2016 in the project’s 2nd generation; although a mystery Vauxhall ’source’ later said that demand, “rather than the launch of the second-gen model, will drive the decision on timing.”
As of now the plan is to export the Ampera/Chevrolet Volt from the DHAM facility in Michigan indefinitely. Naturally, this may cause a strain on capacity and availability of the Volt going forward both domestically and internationally if demand has been underestimated.
Vauxhall’s unofficial-official stance from “sources” on this leak (according to autocar) was:
“There has categorically been no decision on where European production of the Ampera will take place, but in order to justify production at any European plant there will need to be sufficient demand…Obviously we would like to see it built at Ellesmere Port as the Ampera is underpinned by the new Astra. It would make sense”
According to our own GM “sources” here at GM-Volt, Ampera production volumes will be “minimal” anyway. One has to wonder if this development could cast doubt on whether the Ampera reskin of the Volt will indeed happen at all.
One unintended advantage to GM because of this development, is that the recent major devaluing of the US dollar against most major currencies has made exporting cars a much more profitable business. Provided that trend continues, any US made-European sold Voltec vehicle, should be profitable.
107 Responses to “Guest-Post: Magna Group Reportedly Pulls Plug on Building Ampera”
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October 17th, 2009 at 8:44 am
Welcome back Statik I was getting bored of only good news all the time!
At least this should mean that there will be more production of Volts, which should increase jobs and help to bring down costs.
October 17th, 2009 at 8:47 am
with the cost of fuel in Europe, it is amazing that the Ampera would not have been popular overthere.. probably they just dont have the money to build it. GM may have to build that second Volt line a little sooner than expected.
The Volts nose looks a lot better anyways.
October 17th, 2009 at 8:58 am
I’ll add my half-hearted welcome back, Statik! ….Because my heart was only recently broken first by the demise of Saturn; and second now because I definitely favor the highly-distinctive styling of the Ampera over that of the Volt. In fact, I was hoping to fly to Europe to tour several countries in a new Ampera purchased there (which I’d have shipped back here after the tour).
I truly appreciate the finesse Opel designers applied in the design of the Opel Antera CUV (inspired by the BMW X5 & identical to my Saturn Vue). This same flair/finesse was displayed in their re-rendering of the Volt as the Ampera. Sadly, my “Antera” (Vue) probably won’t wind up having an Ampera stablemate, as I had hoped.
October 17th, 2009 at 9:01 am
Wow, talk about backing down from a golden opportunity. I can’t believe that a company wouldn’t have the spine to walk through such a wide open door to help grab an enormous piece of a burgeoning market. It’s not like they’d be starting the revolution themselves – they’d simply be profiting from it.
I agree, Herm, but I think they cold get the money if they could set themselves to it. Why else hide behind the ruse that non-minimalist electric cars won’t see enough demand a couple years from now? Sure it’s a risk, but it’s probably one that a lot of manufacturers would LOVE the opportunity to take.
NPNS!!! =D~~~
October 17th, 2009 at 9:07 am
Rats! I was hoping that the Ampera would develop on a different path than the Volt in the years to come, kind of a Volt-lite for Europe. Given European fuel prices, it would have been interesting to see the Voltec tech in the US move up into minivans and mid-size sedans while the Ampera could explore the other direction, i.e. models with smaller gensets and slightly longer ranges, tho I believe Europeans tend to drive less than Americans, it still would have been a viable concept. Is Ellsmere the only place they build the Antera?
October 17th, 2009 at 9:35 am
GM and the U.S. should heed my warning. GM should not be allowed to go public until it has sold 1 million Volts. OPEC aims to destroy the VOLT, and they have the money to do so.
NPNS!
October 17th, 2009 at 9:39 am
If true, this would indeed be a “Sticky Wicket”.
I still say the European Volt vehicle should have been the re-born Opel GT but alas, with the demise of Saturn and the Sky model, not bloody likely.
See…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Opel_GT_front.JPG
October 17th, 2009 at 9:41 am
I feel bad for our European friends. GM will have to divide whatever they produce between here and Europe.
I agree with Herm also. Gas is so darn expensive over there. I don’t quite understand why there wouldn’t be a demand.
Nasaman, my condolences to you.
October 17th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Magna will be too busy with its Ford focus EV production. Kind of surprised Static didn’t mention that fact. He usually doesn’t miss that kind of stuff.
Take Care,
TED
October 17th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Our current presidential administration cannot afford to let the VOLT Project (and GM + Chrysler in general) fail. Too many billions of dollars were handed out to the auto industry to save it, while he let other industries go bankrupt during this long depression.
If GM were to go under a second time, or go back to the oval office with their hand out again, and it happens too close to re-election time…? You can plan on many attack ads on the subject.
That being said, it doesn’t matter if the UK goes with Magna (version 1) at the start. To make up for it, I’m betting our government will fire up the money printing presses again to do 2 things:
1) Buy a huge fleet of VOLT’s to replace many old government vehicles. I’m guessing an order for 50,000 cars nationwide in the first year alone. (Just imagine the FBI and CIA suits sneaking up on people in all-electric mode…)
2) Give the public a new Rebate: “Cash for Kilowatts” that will be available for any brand of BEV or EREV car available before election day. (And once again this will be a huge pumping of money offshore to Japan, Korea and others.)
Don’t worry. The VOLT is in no danger of failure.
October 17th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Considering all the circumstances, I think GM made a very responsible decision. For now concentrate on the local market and when the time is right to revive the Ampera, go to it.
October 17th, 2009 at 10:00 am
If you go to the Magna website, the first picture in the slideshow is a Ford Focus BEV.
http://www.magna.com/magna/en/
October 17th, 2009 at 10:03 am
From what I saw in Europe, they don’t seem to have nearly as many suburban garages. Multi-family dwellings are much more common over there. So unless they added charging ports near where they park their cars, EREV demand in Europe would be lower than in the U.S..
The same is true in Japan.
Perhaps this is why foreign companies are not as enthusiastic about plug-ins.
October 17th, 2009 at 10:05 am
Let me add another sad “me too” to the folks who like the look of the Ampera better than the Volt. We probably should not put too much stock into the reason given for the move, since a great product would create market demand and something overpriced yet under performs would not have enough demand to justify production. Perhaps they did not want folks waiting for the Ampera instead of buying the Volt.
October 17th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Thanks, Rashiid. But I’m not giving up all hope for the Ampera —who knows, I could wind up getting an Ampera made at GM’s DHAM facility in Michigan!
October 17th, 2009 at 10:08 am
GM sells a controlling interest in Opel. Most of the heavy lifting in the gen 1 Voltec development is done. Chevy Volt will be sold in Europe. Last minute hiccup in Magna purchase of controlling stake in Opel. European governments pressure the sale to go through.
There is more to this story than meets the eye. There is no way this car’s potential European market forced this decision at this time. Just consider the London market alone and the incentives for EVs there.
October 17th, 2009 at 10:13 am
I’m not too sure just what our presidential administration CAN afford.
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
October 17th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Bad news – then I have to go the long way – import a VOLT from USA
October 17th, 2009 at 10:28 am
I agree GM is broke. They need to focus on the current volt program and I guess just ramp up as they know the demand will take it.
Also I can’t help but think they know GEN 2 will be so much better that they don’t need to maximize GEN 1 production. But then again this statement “2015 or 2016 in the project’s 2nd generation” concerns me. Hopefully gen 2 will start earlier than 2015. I was hoping it would be more like 2013 for model yr 14.
October 17th, 2009 at 10:30 am
They can afford anything they want. It’s all just money on paper to them.
As Harry Reid stated so clearly about the health care bill just last week…..
It really does not matter how much it costs.
As long as it works.
October 17th, 2009 at 10:38 am
WHats the problem, we will just export volts for sale in europe. People will be lining up to buy with fuel at $8 a gallon in some places, and possibly more by the end of 2010. We need the work here anyway, we need to balance our trade as we import too much already.
October 17th, 2009 at 10:46 am
“The same is true in Japan.
Perhaps this is why foreign companies are not as enthusiastic about plug-ins.”
__________________________________________
Ummmm.. . .
In case you haven’t noticed, Japan is Leading this “charge”.
October 17th, 2009 at 10:46 am
All of the photos of VOLTs traveling the country for testing show these ugly black bumpers front and back. For weeks now I thought it was just laziness on their part; not wanting to paint the cars an attractive color to show off during their travels….
Now I starting to think that maybe we HAVE NOT seen the final “look” of the VOLT. Most of the differences between VOLT and Ampera were in the bumper and fender areas.
Maybe these test mules are NOT the final design and we are in for a pleasant surprise!!!
October 17th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Note to White House:
It’s the Economy… stupid!
October 17th, 2009 at 10:56 am
rrriiiiiiiight…….
Just print all you need. What could possibly go wrong?
October 17th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Either NGMCO plans on shipping 75% of produced Volt out of the USA. To England, Australia, Canada, Italy, France, Germany, Japan, India, China and others. Or the “hold the Ampera” announcement is an effort to leverage additional financial assistance.
Don’t want the Cruze, Camaro, or Ampera to compete with the Volt? Don’t be concerned about GM models being the better sellers. Look at high volume Japanese and Chinese entries currently on the production line.
Hope NGMCO can rethink this delay of product. The Cruze delay had been very costly. Cash-for-Clunkers could have been HUGE money for the Cruze. And in turn for Mr. Goodwrench down the road.
=D~
October 17th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Kind of like starting wars you can’t win. I’d rather spend it on Volts and health care.
October 17th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Randy:
Works for me. I just hope that this doesn’t mean that we have to wait that much longer to get one. I can see my 2012 fantasy flying away.
October 17th, 2009 at 11:10 am
do we need all these racist comments?
sorry, someone had to bring it up.. just kidding, dont take it seriously.
October 17th, 2009 at 11:10 am
I like the Ampera back much better than the Volt. The Ampera front is about the same to me. I hope they still make the Ampera because I want to buy a Volt and change out the front and rear bumpers and lights and badging. May be easier/cheaper than importing an Ampera plus you have a local dealer that will honor the warranty.
October 17th, 2009 at 11:12 am
The current nose of the Volt has a traditional Chevy look to it.. perhaps it will end up being a cadillac.
The Cadillac of Electric Cars
October 17th, 2009 at 11:12 am
______________________________________________________
From Statik’s article:
“… the Magna consortium reportedly decided it will not produce the Volt’s cousin at this time…As of now the plan is to export the Ampera/Chevrolet Volt from the DHAM facility in Michigan indefinitely. Naturally, this may cause a strain on capacity and availability of the Volt going forward both domestically and internationally if demand has been underestimated…”
——
That is excellent news…I’m all for Voltec cars being exported to Europe from America rather than being manufactured in Europe…this creates American jobs and helps reduce America’s trade deficit.
______________________________________________________
October 17th, 2009 at 11:13 am
“Naturally, this may cause a strain on capacity and availability of the Volt going forward both domestically and internationally if demand has been underestimated.”
I hereby nominate Mr. statik for the Understatement Of The Year Award.
October 17th, 2009 at 11:16 am
It may indeed be true that EV’s aren’t popular in Europe / China, as seen in the poor turnout for the Mini-E and BYD vehicle.
It is wise to build all EREV’s in MI for now.
October 17th, 2009 at 11:18 am
The U.S. dollar is sinking like a rock.
Gee, that’s great, now we can export more stuff, like China.
October 17th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Here’s an article I found about EV demand in the UK.
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=31500#post31500
It does appear market demand is weak over there for EVs in general, although the Ampera might not suffer from this quite as bad as a Mini E, but they just don’t know. I would imagine that if the Volt catches on in the US, it might get get the foreign interest in EVs to build up as well, but GM might as well just see how it goes exporting them (since they can make a lot of money this way) and get a plant for ready for Gen 2 if the demand is there.
October 17th, 2009 at 11:21 am
I think they should just use the Ampera front instead of the Volt. Costs the same and looks twice as cool.
October 17th, 2009 at 11:23 am
______________________________________________________
Demand being underestimated is a much better situation to have than demand being overestimated. JIT manufacturing and flex assembly lines make cranking up production a very doable thing if demand turns out to have been underestimated…I veiw all this as good news and great opportunity for GM America…
_____________________________________________________
October 17th, 2009 at 11:34 am
The delay (cancellation) of the Ampera will do four things. First, it will solidify 24hour EREV production operation in Michigan/Canada. Second, it will keep the EREV availability low for another year. Which will allow the world economy to further recover and accumulate the money to pay for them. Third, it will give the Afghanistan war the time to escalate and lift oil above $100 per barrel. Fourth, it will entice Japan and China to focus EV/EREV sales in countries other than the USA.
=D~
October 17th, 2009 at 11:34 am
The difference is the government usually steps up to the challenge in Europe. Already France is saying they will have a million charging points in 4 years.
http://www.inhabitat.com/2009/10/05/france-announces-2-2-billion-electric-car-charging-network/
—-
In addition to using tax money to create a network of battery-charging stations where drivers can juice their EVs, the plan also requires all parking lots to contain battery charging stations by 2015. All new apartment buildings with lots must also include charging stations by 2012.
—-
Other EU countries have similiar plans.
October 17th, 2009 at 11:39 am
I know, as soon as the new administration came, I decided to start tracking govt debt. Afterall we should only use Chinese money for killing people aborad – not to get off the fossil fuel habit that led to that war in the first place.
ps : If we continue to send so much money to middle east, in a few years they will have enough money in their sovereign funds to take 20% or more ownership in every one of S&P 500 companies and get a seat on the borad of each of those companies. Then, energy independence would be least of our worries …
October 17th, 2009 at 11:43 am
I think this kind of decision is what differentiates men from the buys. Companies that take the needed risk will thrive and others who ignore peak oil warnings will suffer.
October 17th, 2009 at 11:46 am
I think the Opel Ampera would look better if they somehow made the front end and headlight shape look more like the Opel Astra. This front end looks pretty cool in my opinion.
http://www.autoincar.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/2009_04_09_opel_astra_2010_leaked_2.jpg
I’m not too wild about that headlight thing on the Ampera. Looks like one of those Australian boomerangs or something.
I’ve also thought that the Volt and the Ampera could use a nicer looking rear end shape too. It looks a bit too much like, er … a woman with a flat butt instead of a curvier one.
Gotta have those aerodynamics though I guess. Flatter rear ends are better for aero. Once the batteries get better, maybe they do without a little aero and design better looking rear ends for the Volt/Ampera. More like the Aston Martin Vantage. This is the best looking car in the world right now in my opinion.
http://newcarconcepts.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/2010-aston-martin-vantage-v12.jpg
http://image.automobilemag.com/f/14941682+w750+st0/0902_06_z+2010_aston_martin_v12_vantage+rear_three_quarter_view.jpg
October 17th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Yes having the black primer fronts and backs to disguise the Volt is a little mind boggling since the car has been presented at car shows and photos from all angles. More of the fan dance I suppose.
October 17th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
evnow … you’re comment invokes images of BYD looming large on the horizon. The world cannot ignore the slow steady grind policy which China has maintained for 20 years. EREV will sell very well regardless of who produces them.
I like the Volt and don’t plan on buying from China. Just saying that China offerings will be available in predictably high numbers. Japan needs to enter the EREV race soon to keep up.
I may be slammed for this. But I do not believe American’s want BEV in the near term. Ironically, when the Ampera is finally realized, the BEV will be in the sweet spot. Hope Ford proves this as being wrong with the EV Focus. Time will tell.
Oh the drama.
=D~
October 17th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
SHANGHAI, Oct 16 (Reuters) – Chinese electric car and battery maker BYD Co Ltd’s nine-month car sales soared 50 percent over the previous year to almost 300,000 units, the China Securities Journal reported on Friday.
MidAmerican Energy Holdings has plans to sell its all-electric car e6 in the United States starting in 2010.
Sales in September increased 88 percent to 44,000 cars, the newspaper reported, quoting an unnamed company official.
=D~
October 17th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
One more issue in the mix is that the British Pound has been tracking the US dollar fall (for similar reasons).
Thus making an Ampera at Ellesmere Port in the UK may make more sense if the currencies look to stay that way for long enough. The UK may be a good base to export to the Euro zone. However, currency movements are likely too short term for plans like these.
October 17th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Just how many wrongs does it take to make a right?
October 17th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Hey Dave K., (off topic)
Could you tell me what the source was for the “volt posse refueling” photo?
http://garfwod.250free.com/volt%20e85.jpg
October 17th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
carcus1 … didn’t save the link. Happened upon it during a Yahoo search for information on the Volt test drive of this past week. Believe it was a GM twitter page. There were 3 or 4 photos from the posse of Volt. The “refueling stop” was the best photo. And E85 was mentioned.
=D~
October 17th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
ummm France; Nuclear power; lots of plugs; get off oil;
makes good sense to me.
October 17th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Maybe Magna thinks the Volt is a no go in a BEV world?
Could GM be wrong?!?!?
October 17th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Think BEV. Think two BEVs per Volt.
October 17th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Ok, thanks.
October 17th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Dave K, 2:07:
You aren’t going to get slammed by me. I agree 100%
October 17th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
That’s an interesting point, Jason. Do you think it’s because EVs have the range anxiety issue? If so, that problem goes away with EREVs and EREVs may be more popular than they expect (based on what sales EVs are achieving). But as others have said, it’s easier to crank up the build rate, than it is to ‘manufacture’ demand that just doesn’t exist. So on balance, I think this is ‘good-ish’ news.
October 17th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
On reflection, I prefer to believe that all this means is that Magna doesn’t want to overextend itself by gearing up to produce Amperas. They have to be stretched out about as far as they can go with the basic Opel acquisition.
GM would have to be crazy to try to start up Ampera production along with the Volt at this point. So I choose to believe that DHAM will produce Volts, and that the decision about what to do with the Ampera will be put off until everyone sees how Volt sales go.
LJGTVWOTR!!
October 17th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Hey, that’s a neat shot. And IRONIC too, when you consider the idea is to AVOID gas stations by owning a Volt!
October 17th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Being realistic. What’s the chance of 500,000 Leaf/BYD recharge stations being set up along the roads and highways of America? The recharge station for the Volt is a few gallons of gasoline at one of a million pumps.
The idea of buying a BEV (plus carrying a battery lease) and being able to drive about an hour before range panic sets in is lunacy. And the thought of having a drained BEV when an emergency comes along could make a Twilight Zone episode.
At NGMCO the Converj and Ampera are on long term hold. Yesterdays web meeting emphasized the sharp focus on Volt development in parallel on gens 1-3. This strategy may pay off if two things happen. First, the Volt sells as many units as NGMCO can crank out (which is a given). And second, this high demand is realized and built upon with the introduction of a crossover or truck model. Uncle Sam has his $7500 checks available. The time to get going is now.
=D~
October 17th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
They have a lot of low hp/high mpg diesels over there, and they are less worried about pollution.. so less demand for electrics.
October 17th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Interesting development . . . but I take this as very positive for GM. Since they are on the verge of selling a majority stake in Opel to Magna, that would mean that GM would have been sharing the VOLTec technology with Magna. Now they get to keep it all to themselves for now. If Magna wants to wait until Gen2 arrives, it will cost them alot more. Too bad for Europeans, but better for NewGMCo.
Hopefully GM will not get sidetracked with VOLT and try ot build a seperate Export Version on the same production line. IMHO the Detroit plant will need to work full-time to try and meet demand. In the past, GM has slowed production down on a hot new model in order to introduce that models’ new corporate twin. Keep the pedal down on VOLT production and the market will respond!
The more VOLTs that get into the hands of everyday consumers, the better. GM also needs to pay attention to all third party automotive sources such as Edmunds, Consumer Reports, online blogs (this site in particular:-)), etc. If GM dedicates itself to true continuous improvement of the VOLT and the VOLTec powertrain, then Positive word-of-mouth will spread… and long-term success will be assured.
Go GM. Go VOLT. Bring it on….
October 17th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
It’s really a hybrid on road trips.
October 17th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
More likely that BEV is a no go in an EREV world.
Ford is wrong, or just doing token greenwashing, IMHO.
October 17th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
It’s insanely infuriating. I’m paying the equivalent of $6.30 for petrol at the moment. How can ANYONE think there isn’t demand in europe? ok, so we aren’t all in our local dealer trying to buy one yet, and we couldn’t all sign up for the mini trial (i tried, they only wanted people in the OX postcode area though!) but there can’t be a single person in the country who doesn’t want to pay less for their fuel. if GM spent a few million on properly advertising this car and what it will do, they would generate millions of sales.
To give you an idea, the factory mentioned in the story, Ellesmere port, currently produces 190,000 Astras a year. if they start making Amperas there, (same platform, similar size) and offered Voltec with a couple of smaller motors (maybe an 85kw and 60kw) you could change every single sale to an Ampera. Call them an average of $28,000 each ($32k for the 112kw, $20k for the 60kw and $26k for the 85kw) and you’re talking $5,320,000,000 a year. screw it, spend $500million on advertising, you will still RAKE it in, and have amazingly happy consumers.
Well, whatever. If it comes to it i’ll import a Volt. the day can’t come soon enough.
October 17th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Charging stations in Europe is indeed good news. For those concerned about coal fired electric plants adding to pollution, Europe is a lot more nuclear than North America.
October 17th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Yeah, personally I think this is great news. The worst possible thing would be for Volts to sit on the lot. Demand has to be much, much higher than supply to finally show doubters that there is a market and to make the $40k price tag seem sensible. I think demand really is there, but doubters need to see it to believe it. I want them to see Detroit Hamtrack at full capacity straining to supply the world with Volts, and becoming a media sensation since it is “revitalizing Flint” or something to that effect. This is the first mass-produced US electric drive vehicle; it has to be a smashing success to win converts outside of early adopters and to drive infrastructure creation.
PS. I’m not looking to buy a Volt for a few years so personally I am not so concerned about them being in short supply. I know it will be terrible for those that want but can’t get one but I think it is best for the future of EVs for them to be in short supply at first.
October 17th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Glad there are people like you… gives us hope that something will be done in Europe. Keep pushing!
October 17th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
This is somewhat OT, but given the weekend guest post usually has a financial flavor, it’s at least in the ballpark.
The fact is that GM seems to be gaining market share after the bankruptcy. Perhaps the strategy of fewer brands, more advertising per brand and model, and better models is beginning to pay off. Or maybe it’s just Bob Lutz!
http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/10/gm-regaining-lost-market-share-ground-in-october-edmundscom-reports.html
Personally I’m going with more advertising and new and better models, but time will tell.
October 17th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
I’m with you on the styling of the Ampera being superior. It’s basically the same but the front end makes it more distinctive. The Volt front end is tres blah.
Too late now but perhaps for Gen II GM will “jazz up” the design for us.
October 17th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
More batteries for the US…..
October 17th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
I think EREVs like the Volt are here to stay even though the Volt hasn’t even come out yet. Eventually, I bet Magna will be building and selling an EREV if they won’t be doing the Opel Ampera.
Here’s a good article about what is on the way for range extenders like the Volt has.
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1767
Things like Wankel engines and micro-turbines. I agree that the name of the game when it comes to range extenders is they need to inexpensive, very lightweight, very quiet, they have very clean combustion, and they can run on several kinds of fuel … gasoline, E85, bio-butanol, algae biogasoline, etc.
They say the microturbine in this article can run on lots of fuels. An EREV with a microturbine range extender sounds a lot like that car in the movie “Back to the Future”.
October 17th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
The smaller motors would not save you much.. probably cost more since its another unique part they have to tool up for.. they could remove the airbags and some of the reinforcements, if allowed, that would save a bunch. If the Volt is a $40k car in the US it would be $50-$60k in Europe.. guessing on that.
October 17th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
They could also use a small diesel for the range extender, something that would be prohibitive in the US.
October 17th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
hi Flan … it looks like the entire NGMCO electric mash has distilled itself down to producing just the Volt. Many here feel this is a missed opportunity.
Have a read of yesterday’s web meeting and you’ll see what the concrete plans are. We here in the USA and Canada definitely understand your response.
=D~
October 17th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
OT: I’ve been invited to a focus group for the Volt. It is in LA. Has anyone else? I wonder if it is legit.
I said that I couldn’t fly to LA just now and they said that they are going to hold one in San Francisco in a few weeks. I told them I would be interested in that one.
October 17th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
So the socialist British won’t build it because there isn’t enough of a market to justify the expense? And the comments on this blog are, gee whiz, that’s too bad because the Ampera was prettier than the Volt. Why can’t our government piss money away on charging points for a car that won’t sell in volume? The French are so visionary, they don’t use any oil at all do they? They didn’t have any oil contracts with Saddam, did they? That wasn’t a reason they didn’t want the US to oust Saddam, was it?
If you think there is a market for a car that gets 31.5 mpg, costs $1.30 to charge for 40 miles at best, costs $40,000, is made by a company that many people, who aren’t twats, now despise and has all the space, luxury and prestige of a cobalt I am afraid you’re in for a nasty surprise.
October 18th, 2009 at 1:08 am
Since the New GM is primarily owned by the US Government & the taxpayer is vested in its success. I say Congress should prohibit States from charging a sales tax on its products until the US Government is paid off & divested of the new GM. I don’t think states tax the military for each tank or ship that ends up in their State? How about the guns & bullets sold to Uncle Sam, do those get taxed by the respective states in which they end up? In California with ever increasing sales & vehicle taxes that might help. The other problem with sales taxes & the rebate is, the car will be assessed at 40 K in value by the State of California so it will raise taxes significantly for owners. If the US Government would allow the 7,500 to go directly to GM for each vehicle sold in the US in exchange for reducing price tag to 32,500 it would reduce the sales tax (unless my first suggestion is passed – doubtful). Take that to your focus group meeting!
October 18th, 2009 at 2:06 am
I think they both may be right, but EREV is a GM project and no matter how nice GM may play for the headlines they are not happy that they didn’t have complete control of Euro and UK EREV promulgation. GM likely played nice when the teacher was looking (Merkel) and bared their teeth at the lower division student (Magna) when they thought no one was paying attention.
High stakes games and high stakes tactics, after 100 years and a bankruptcy GM remains one of the few survivors, and it wouldn’t be rational to invite others to gorge on the hard earned resources from their part of the island.
October 18th, 2009 at 3:11 am
At first, I just thought. Yes! Now GM gets to keep the Voltec technology to themselves, at least for now. GM would not have a Voltec competitor in Europe. But, now, I think, I could have gotten that Ampera front end! Well, at least GM is benefiting from this deal. This means higher production efficiencies at the plant in NAM. Good for locals!
October 18th, 2009 at 5:14 am
Hewth I’m glad it was some other car because the picture did throw me off a little don’t give up GM you can do it! I just hope the Volt will still proceed on and as well when it comes to improving the technology of the Volt?
October 18th, 2009 at 5:38 am
Dear Statik,
I was suspicios from the very beggining concerning GM-Magna/Sberbank deal and prospects of new Opel electrification. The main concern was Sberbank (like Gazprom)- Russian state facility ( banking monopoly) which owns 1/3 of Opel’s stake. And electrification of automobile never been core interest of Russian government because of the same black stuff – O……. So I do not believe being Gen 3 or Gen 4 produced at new Opel.
Best regards,
Darius
October 18th, 2009 at 5:56 am
NO. The Japanese are leading the charge for HEVs, and resisting PHEVS and EREVs. An HEV is a gasoline powered car with some electric assist. PHEVs and EREVs are electric cars, with some gasoline powered assist.
The first, or HEV, approach can double mileage. The second approach can produce ten times the mileage and make them essentially zero gasoline vehicles.
The US fleet is about 250 million vehicles, half cars and half trucks. If EREVs could replace the 125 million cars, the US fleet would appear to be only a 135 million vehicle fleet from the standpoint of an Oil Sheik/Commissar, quaking in his boots.
October 18th, 2009 at 5:57 am
Yeah you are right that the smaller motors would not save significant cost, however, it does enable you to justify the extra cash you’re asking for on the higher output models. If i was shopping for an ampera and saw the three power levels (and have them as trim levels too, so the 112kw has leather, nav, climate control, the 60kw has cloth, cd player and basic air con, the 85 is somewhere in the middle) then i can pick the pricey one, and the fleet market can pick the cheap one. And yes, a diesel genset would be a good move (not neccesarily from an efficiency perspective, but from a marketing one. so many people look at the prius and insight and just laugh because “what’s the point, they’re petrol?”) but i guess that’s another “wait for gen 2″ issue…
October 18th, 2009 at 6:04 am
Opel is discovering the benefits and limits of being independent and …too small !
October 18th, 2009 at 6:22 am
An unmentioned benefit of this decision is that the Chevrolet franchise in Europe is automatically being upgraded, in European eyes, just when it needs it most.
For along time Opel has been viewed as an European middle luxury, Buick-like franchise. The Chevy Franchise on the other hand was viewed as a purveyor of cheap Korean cars. With the the demise of Opel, Chevrolet has to move up in the eyes of European buyers.
The Cruze helps. It is a dramatically better car than what Chevy was selling in Europe, despite the limitations of the Family I engines.
Now Chevrolet will vend the pioneering Volt, moving it further away from its cheap Lucetti roots. I assume the turbo Family 0, 1.4 liter, will be available in Europe too answering the petrol engine problem with the Cruze.
Exports of both from from the USA will be beneficial and help provide work domestically, too. Exporting some Cruzes from the USA,say 1.4 turbos and SS versions, will help dispel the Korean image even further.
There is another benefit. Opel unions dissed GM fro wanting to downsize an Lay off people. Now someone else Will be the villains and do the dirty work that must still be done. Nostalgically, some will wish for GM to return. Its a Win, Win.
October 18th, 2009 at 6:28 am
Please cease the Peak Oil Cassandra myths. All that Peak Oil means when it happens, is that we only have a few HUNDRED YEARS worth of petroleum left. BFD.
We are moving off Oil dependency on a decadal basis, and with the coming of Fusion Energy, we can make as much Petroleum as we wish if we were ever in the position to ever want to do so.
October 18th, 2009 at 7:19 am
Very nice piece on the iMiev.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/10/mitsubishi_miev_test_drive_review.php
Makes my mouth water for electric cars….
October 18th, 2009 at 7:21 am
No one invited me
Darn, I want to be invited to something.
October 18th, 2009 at 7:30 am
Just look at all the extra mechanicals to support the ICE.
Range extenders may be successful in the short term (5-10 years), but in the long run, BEV’s will be winner.
It just makes the vehicle so much cheaper (once battery prices come down) to build and maintain, when you do not need to support all those “extras” that a range extender adds.
Having to support two kinds of propulsion systems for a single vehicle just seems so wrong (IMO).
It just has to happen, eventually…
October 18th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Would it be possible for GM Volt buyers to have the option of ordering the Volt’s original front panels or the stylish front panels of the Ampera design?
October 18th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Hi Ed look at what Renault is proposing just now and perhaps you would like to add some nuances to your text, please see :http://www.renault-ze.com/
October 18th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
I don’t think it is any secret that Sberbank is involved in the deal with Magana because GAZ wants access to GM’s small platform technology…and they are going to get it. Producing the Ampera was probably never of interest to any of the parties.
If GM could have seen anyway to have retained/gone in another direction with Opel over doing this deal, they would have done it. Stronach/Magna had the German gov’t in their pocket for this one…and in the long run that leverage, along with GM’s own situation, forced it.
October 18th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Hi Ed look at what Renault is proposing just now and perhaps you would like to add some nuances to your text, please see : http://www.renault-ze.com/
Regards,
JC NPNS
BTW, I like the Ampera a lot more than the Volt, I’m ready to buy one, but if competition is there and there is only the Volt and not the Ampera, I’m not sure I’ll go for the Volt.
October 18th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Strange wheels, how about some baby moons?
October 19th, 2009 at 3:07 am
Certainly GM has not great motivation for directly renting or licensing its brand new and quite exclusive technology to Russia. On a geopolitical point of view, it’s very different to using a sub-brand (what Opel was) for spreading technology to other continents.
October 19th, 2009 at 3:09 am
It’s hard work to make forget Daewoo, but maybe not impossible.
October 19th, 2009 at 3:20 am
About diesel, it’s true and sad to see that here in Europe (and especially in France), a car not proposing diesel engine is generally ignored by press (and as a consequence by market). Althrough most peopole don’t drive 15k miles a year, more than half the market is kept by diesel engines. It’s economically a bad choice for many buyers.
May this paradox be a good point for Volt (as it seems there won’t be Ampera) sales?
October 19th, 2009 at 7:35 am
Three. But I never made it without biting.
October 19th, 2009 at 9:49 am
I agree JEC, however, the time-to-market for BEV with ICE capability is decades, not 5 to 10 years.
The batteries have to develop much further for BEV to be viable for every day use. Infrastructure must be in place to ‘refuel’.
EREV will be viable for many, many years. The ICE will probably change to CNG or ethanol fuelcell before BEV is ready.
October 19th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Lol. Baby moons.
I think the Volt wheels should be more distinctive. Like a more closed ‘aero’ design rather than the open ‘look at my cool calipers’ design.
As far as facia. I think that the aftermarket will have some very cool tricks for this car once it is in the millions range of production.
October 19th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Not me. Too mouthy by half, LOL.
October 19th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Back under the bridge with you!
October 19th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
38.
Guy Incognito Says:
October 19th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
So they’re pulling the plug on the Ampera?
Does’nt surprise me, the Volt is next.
October 19th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
I hope you are wrong Guy. GM recently offered some insight into their strategy for electric vehicle production. Rather than offer several GEN 1 electric vehicles to compete with the 1/2 dozen available hybrids. They will co-develop Chevy Volt generations 1 through 3 in parallel. This being consistent with The Best Car Wins theme. Quality over quantity.
Considering NGMCO’s current financial position. And the limited range of nearly all competitors to the Volt. This seems like the smartest route to take.
________________________________
Wonder if any of the IVER test vehicles will make it to a Barrett Jackson auction block? Palm Beach, Florida has one coming up April 1-3 2010.
=D~
October 19th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Dec 17th 2008 at 10:27AM
First retail production 2010 Camaro to be auctioned by Barrett-Jackson
Bidding for the first retail production 2010 Chevy Camaro is set to begin in Prime Time on Saturday, January 17, 2009 at the Barret-Jackson auction in Scottsdale, Arizona. A similar move was made last year when the first production Corvette ZR1 managed to rake in an astounding one-million dollars. Like that ZR1, all proceeds will be given to charity, in this case, the American Heart Association, so anything over the car’s list MSRP will be tax deductible, which is nice.
Regular production of Chevy’s new pony car won’t begin until a month after the auction takes place, so the Camaro on display in Scottsdale won’t be the actual unit being bid on. We’re still awaiting official details, like if the Camaro – lot number 1316 for those interested in bidding (go for it, it’s for charity!) – is a base model (seems unlikely) or a fully loaded SS model, complete with a 422-hp small block V8. Of course, the big question is how much it’ll bring, and we’ll be sure to have that figure for you as soon as the gavel falls.
Jan 17th 2009 at 11:11PM
Barrett-Jackson 2009: First Retail Production 2010 Chevrolet Camaro goes for $350,000
One of the most highly anticipated vehicles to be auctioned off at Barrett-Jackson this year was the first 2010 Chevy Camaro. There are very few instant classics these days, and this is one of them. There’s still a month before actual series production of the car is slated to begin, but the winning bidder claimed the right to the very first retail production car that can be ordered in any color and with any options he chooses. Last year, it took exactly one-million dollars to win the hotly contested rights to the first 2009 Corvette ZR1, and this year $350,000 claimed the first edition of the newly-revived Camaro. Just as with last year’s ZR1, all proceeds from this Camaro’s sale will benefit the American Heart Association, which means that anything over the car’s MSRP will be tax deductible by the winning bidder.
=D~
October 19th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Magna is “focussed” on pure EVs. Voltec is a transitional technology. With the cost of Lithium-ion batteries dropping 10% per year and other potential technologies like ultra-capacitors and metal-air batteries on the horizon, my money is with Magna.
October 20th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
GM plans to offer the OnStar service in China next year. Also, GM intends to sell the Chevy Volt in China, western Europe, and Canada, executives said.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10378583-54.html?tag=mncol;posts
=D~