AND 
Chevy Volt Fleet Goes on Extended Road Test
On Tuesday morning, eight Chevy Volt integration vehicles left the Milford Proving grounds compound in Michigan on a historic extended test drive into Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
The cars were driven for more than 9 hours and 300 miles continuously in a special effort to analyze their behavior, performance, and comfort on such a long drive in real word conditions.
Key personal in attendance on the drive included Volt chief engineer Andrew Farah, Volt vehicle line engineer Tony Posawatz, and advanced technology engineer Larry Nitz.
“Development drives are key milestones for every vehicle program,” said GM spokesperson Rob Peterson. “The extended seat time allows the engineers to experience every aspect of the vehicle – from ride, handling and performance to the comfort of seats. The drives also help uncover engineering issues that need to be resolved before the vehicles are put into the hands of customers.”
“Having the capability to drive several 100 miles in a day is a significant advantage for the Volt team too,” said Peterson. “Remember, the EV1 team needed to be trailered to areas like Pikes Peak or Pennsylvania for testing, or trailer a small generator to extend the vehicle’s range.”
Lead engineer Andrew Farah wrote the following observations about the drive:
HVAC comfort is good, and sound quality in the NVH (noise, vibration, handling) vehicle is excellent.
We have uncovered a number of minor issues with some of the gauges and displays. Up-level sound system makes XM really sound great!
City traffic in Pittsburgh was just what we were looking for after the rolling grades outside of town. On the way in, we all put the transmission selector into the “L” position and this worked as intended in the stop-n-go conditions. At speeds under 35 mph, you can basically drive with one foot because of the heavier regenerative drag as you fully release the accelerator. It is smooth and blended. Seat comfort evaluations are also being conducted. We have our top 3 comfort configurations from previous activities. So far, the top choice seems to be clear, but there is still some work to do.
This was the longest continuous real world drive to date the Volt development vehicles undertook in a single outing, and illustrates how the Volt is capable of doing what no pure battery EV could do.
Besides providing the engineer with valuable data on how to make the cars as perfect as possible, it also produced some very cool photo ops.
Meanwhile GM also announced it was investing over $200 million to upgrade several production facilities in preparation for building the Chevy Volt and Cruze. In particular, the engine plant in Flint where the 1.4 L Volt engine-generator and 1.4 L turbocharge Cruze engine will be made was allocated $202 million.
201 Responses to “Chevy Volt Fleet Goes on Extended Road Test”
Leave a Reply
Recent Posts
- New York Times Report on the Chevy Volt Generator Mode Driving Experience
- CNBC Test Drive of the Chevy Volt in Charge Sustaining Mode
- Chevy Volt Will be Able to Hit 104 MPH
- Chevy Volt and Battery Program Update
- GM to Announce Initial Volt Markets at LA Auto Show
- Coalition of Industry Leaders Releases Roadmap to get 120 Million Electric Cars on US Roads by 2030
- Op-Ed: GM Reports a $1.2 Billion Loss, but Has the Cash To See Volt Well into Production and Beyond
- Three Chevy Volt Paint Color Finalists Announced
- What BMW Has Learned from the MINI E Program So Far: That They May Need to Build EREVs
- GM: EVs are Cool, but EREV’s are Really Cool
Recent GM-Volt Forum Posts
- Hacked e-mails reveal global-warming fraud? November 20, 2009This is how open minded liberals operate. "And, perhaps most reprehensibly," Delingpole writes, "a long series of communications discussing how best... […]BigCityCat
- Is the Volt Engine Direct Injected? November 20, 2009I recently read that the Cruze's engine will be DI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_Cruze#Chevrolet_Cruze Obviously the Cruze's engine will... […]omnimoeish
- First Reports of the Chevy Volt's Charge-Sustaining (Generator) Mode Operation November 20, 2009The first two journalists' reports of what it's like to drive the Chevy Volt while in generator mode operation have been published. 1) New York... […]admin
- Florida giving $5000 rebate to convert Prius to plug-in November 20, 2009- Probably Hymotion - $10,400 standard price - $5000 state rebate - $1000 additional federal incentives - $4,400 final cost. Hurry because their... […]Texas
- New York Times CSM story November 20, 2009Link to the New York Times story of November 19, 2009 about a test ride of the Volt in charge sustaining... […]srschrier
- New video: Volt drive in Detroit November 19, 2009November 19, 2009 Detroit Free Press story with video featuring a Volt drive with Andrew Farah in... […]srschrier
- New Video: Volt Corrosion Testing November 18, 2009From GM VoltAge, the Volt's corrosion... […]srschrier
GM-Volt.com is not affiliated with General Motors Company
All contents copyright 2007-2009 GM-Volt.com, LLC - All Rights Reserved
Home | Contact | Privacy Policy | About | Back to Top
October 14th, 2009 at 6:31 am
The great news just keeps on coming. Great story.
Go GM. Make the Volt a great car!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:31 am
Tag
I hope you were there on the PA turnpike to see this.
Be well.
I wonder what type of EV range they got with all those people in the Volt and of course what was the mpg during the CS mode and did the shift to “L” in Pittsburg give them additional EV range.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:31 am
They neglected to mention the real reason they came to PA. The roads are about the worst in the country
Lyle, I live just outside of Philly and I would have gladly taken a sick (of work) day cough cough to check out the volt. GM needs to put together a tour schedule so people can check out some good that their tax dollars are doing.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:34 am
What we need is some spy shots from a Pennsylvania gas station showing the “gallons” readout on the pumps where the volt posse stopped for fuel.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:36 am
I couldn’t agree more – fantastic news ( along with the Dow futures ) !
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:51 am
This is such a cool event. There are too many questions to list regarding the results of this activity. I would love to have video footage of them in this real world action. One quirky thought:
I wonder if the lead Volt in the picture above (the one with the headlights on) had less EV range. If so, by how much (assuming of course that all other systems were equal)?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:56 am
How well does brake light activation function in city “L” mode? Testing with 87 octane fuel?
=D~
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:56 am
Not just incredible, *outstandingly-incredible*.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:02 am
If they took the OH Turnpike into PA to get to Pittsburgh, they were really close when they went by Youngstown, OH.
I agree with Gsned57 on this one. It would have been really cool to see them in person. Oh well, someday soon at a Chevy dealership!
As far as specs, I still doubt we are going to get anything with hard data. That info will be kept in-house until they get close to the introduction………….
But this is really great news! I’ll bet the engineers are really proud of the accomplishment they have achieved!!!
Go GM! Go GM Volt Team!!!
NPNS
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:03 am
Or what about when running on E85???
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:09 am
This was great. Just wish I was in Pitt to see them.
On a little different subject. I was at the DC Green Festival and a company was displaying their Ford Focus EV conversion. You need to buy a clutch Focus $5K plus give them $22K to get a 18 Mile pure EV. An additional $15K gets you Lion Batteries and a 30 Mile range. So for $42K you get a 30 Mile EV. $40K for Volt all of a sudden doesn’t sound that expensive anymore.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:12 am
“I wonder what type of EV range they got with all those people in the Volt and of course what was the mpg during the CS mode and did the shift to “L” in Pittsburg give them additional EV range.” Good comment!
….I counted 27 people + 7 cars in the bottom photo; if the other 2 cars were leading or lagging these 7 (and there were no other vehicles on the trip) that would mean almost every car had 4 people on board! And this “full load” would certainly test the Volt for comfort, as well as for CD range in addition to CS mode mpg.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:19 am
Did anyone ride with the windows open and the air off? If so how did it compare to the guy who had the windows shut and the air on?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:21 am
….I meant to say, “if the OTHER car were leading or lagging these 7 (and there were no other vehicles on the trip) that would mean almost every car had 4 people on board!”
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:27 am
Dave K. at 6:56
One approach I thought of for brake light activation *explanation*, (while crude), would be a pendulum and angle sensor. If going down hill the sudden net difference between the downhill angle gradually advancing a pendulum, and a sudden inertial advancement momentum of the pendulum (from slowing) might be a useful way to understand how to turn on brake lights from the “results” of accelerator . (But, more possibly, just the “direct” net difference software-wise just at the accelerator potentiometer inputs to the PCM (Main Program Control Module) coupled with VSS’s, (the vehicle speed sensors) at each wheel.)
But of course, the engineers have already thought of all that from a wide array of methods, because, for example, of the same sort of motion sensing is also within the Vehicle Stability System Sensor already incorporated in GM vehicles. Perhaps redundancy would also help here as well.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:33 am
Check out this British beauty.
http://www.lightningcarcompany.co.uk/home.php
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:45 am
It would have been a good photo if they could have showed all the Volts parked at a supermarket/whatever plugged in and charging. And then show the looks on the bystanders’ faces.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:48 am
I mean no offense by this statement, but I don’t like to see these people testing the cars.
I would rather see Lyle and the rest of us testing the cars.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:53 am
It is great to see these vehicles on the road, crossing the country in ‘normal’ driving conditions. The fact that these Volts were loaded with passengers on an hours long drive will surely help engineers make adjustments in the interior space, seat quality and software systems. I can’t wait to buy my Volt.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:53 am
I work within viewing distance of the Ohio turnpike. If they would pre-announce trips and stopping points I’m sure they would draw crowds.
In that picture of all the GM folks there was one real tall person. I wonder if they made him sit in the back seat for 9 hours? He might be on disability leave now.
Well the Volt is coming, but here in Ohio I’m still planning on 2012 to purchase the Volt or whatever else makes the most sense so I can drive without Oil. For the Volt to work for me, I will need to charge it during the day. When they talk about 100,000 mile warranty I plan to do 99% with the battery, so maybe i’ll kill the battery and get a new one put in for the second 100,000 miles.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:58 am
This is great news and the sort of testing I’m hoping GM does more of. Test the living daylights out of these things and get them right GM.
It is so surreal to see these actual Volts on real highways amongst the general population like in these pictures. Keep up the good work GM!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:00 am
Seems overly complicated. Brake lights on “mean” the brake pedal is depressed in conventional ICE automobiles, not necessarily that the car is slowing (e.g. steep downhill grade). The Volt just needs to monitor the amount of regen. Once the corresponding force exceeds what a typical ICE lift off condition would be, then engage the break lights.
Since we are on the subject it would be nice if break light standards were changed to show 2 levels of intensity. Dim for shallow breaking and bright for hard breaking.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:01 am
Teslas website said they did the brake lights as a function of regen intensity. (light regen no brake lights, heavy regen brake lights on). In other words the controller can also activate the brake lights! Cool!!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:20 am
I live in MD and frequently travel to PA. The roads are generally bad. I have experienced driving along at 75 mph on the smooth black asphalt of MD highways (paid for by the large taxes etc. etc.) and then experiencing the welcome to PA drop down (asphalt ledge) onto the pothole filled concrete patchwork of a highway as I pass the Welcome to PA sign.
klump, klump, klump……
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:21 am
Years ago a phrase entered our language, “Now you are cookin with gas.” Soon a new catch phrase will enter our language, also signifying doing something in a good way, and it will be, “Now you are driving electrically.” Go Volt.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:21 am
PS.
I love PA.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:21 am
Stunning… Reminds me a lot of my C6 Corvette in body style.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:22 am
Ya, that’s really sharp looking. Something that would be appropriate in a James Bond film.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:24 am
We can tell. SMILE
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:34 am
______________________________________________________
Excellent post Lyle…thanks! The photos are especially very inspiring.
But…
I’m disappointed that they did not include Lyle in the Volt caravan ride…or is that Lyle in the group photo (7th from back)?..lol
——–
In other news:
“…U.S. Energy Secretary Steven Chu said, “If it were up to me, I would put every cent into electric cars…”
Source: http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1036633_energy-secretary-chu-says-i-would-put-every-cent-into-electric-cars
_____________________________________________________
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Great article and photos.
The whole event seems to scream “see….no range anxiety”
The Volt is perfect for the era we find ourselves in. It is the vehicle that we need during our shift to electric.
It reminds me of what happened to cassette players in cars. Once CD’s came out, there was a time when the in-dash unit of your car could play both cassettes and cds. The volt is the same in that it can use either power or gas.
I fully see the time in the far future where these volts will have a huge nostalgic following. The surviving units will be restored, and will then travel through the auto show circuit, or be kept in the third garage as a reminder of the era. That would have happened for the EV-1s if it wasn’t for the pesky little “crushed” problem.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:49 am
re: #14. That site doesn’t render at all in IE8. It’s ok in FireFox 3.5.3.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:51 am
“On Tuesday morning, eight Chevy Volt integration vehicles left the Milford Proving grounds compound in Michigan on a historic extended test drive into Philadelphia.
The cars were driven for more than 9 hours and 300 miles continuously in a special effort to analyze their behavior, performance, and comfort on such a long drive in real word conditions.”
It is a lot more then 300 miles from Milford to Philadelphia.
I don’t understand that one. But great to see them driving them long distance because this is what make the Volt great.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:55 am
garrytman
I would like to see Top Gear put the lightning thru the same test they put the Tesla thru.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Great report! Good to see some play in the real world.
I’m not so worried about energy consumption (CS mode mileage etc.) as some others here. Going from a 16MPG vehicle to Volt will be good enough without all the nit-picky detail.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:59 am
Jason
I also wonder how bad the hit is on the EV mode with the lights on. I hope they drove back at night with the lightes on and will share that info with us
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:04 am
I think they only went to Pittsburgh not Philly. It is about 600 miles from Milford to Philly.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:17 am
Testing is important. Everyone agrees on that.
Marketing the VOLT against a dozen competitors also being introduced as 2011 models next year is critical !!!
Would someone ask GM why they can’t take the time to PAINT each of those 7 VOLTS in some kind of color besides Primer Gray??!!! And why the black, unfinished bumpers??!!!
As they travel across the country doing their tests, I believe they could generate tons of additional interest if they had them painted in a rainbow of Chevy colors.
Jetstream Blue
Silver Ice
Cardinal Red
Mocha Metallic
Velocity Yellow
Victory Red
Summit White
GM needs to get a serious jump on the competition. If other brands introduce theirs first, then buyers need to be shown the reasons they should “wait” to make their purchase for a VOLT.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:20 am
Lyle – great post – almost like a historic maiden voyage into the real world! Wow, those VOLTs look nice on the highway… I can imagine some strained necks from other vehicles on the road as driver’s and passengers tried to get a closer look.
Lyle, I suggest adding a photo album to this site to allow folks a spot to post photos snapped of VOLTs around the country during testing. It would be cool to see the VOLTs in many different settings – particularly if the photo included a road sign showing the actual location.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:22 am
ANy worry that this daily Blow by Blow information on the volt is helping the competition,which is largely silent with their progress on EV,s.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:28 am
That would indeed have been cool and an excellent advertising opportunity.
Why are these cars being tested at highway speeds without lens covers on the headlights?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:35 am
Did you look at the pricing?
For $200K, it should be the best…….
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Rashiid:
Hopefully that will be the next stage of testing in Project Driveway!!!
Hope springs eternal…..
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:42 am
I uploaded all the photos we were able to get yesterday to the Volt Facebook page. You should check it out, there are 22 more shots from the day.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Randy:
That is why we are not really getting hard data on the performance, just photo ops.
I have no real problem with this situation at this point. But before I write that check, I will want to know as much as possible about how the car will perform……
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:45 am
I don’t see how it will help them much. All we have learned is that the Volt can go on long trips. No hard numbers or figures, so the competition isn’t learning much other than the Volt works and is on schedule.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:48 am
On the other hand, if I put myself in the engineers shoes, what a treat they are having.
After seeing the EV1 program crashed just when they came up with the idea of having a generator on-board to sustain the batteries (as opposed to on-a-trailer or not at all), this is such a glorious day for them.
The sweet smell of revenge, when finally you’ll show the world that you had it right and would have nailed the competition if management would have been clever enough to keep investing in your idea.
This is so great. They deserve their ride. Soon, it will be our turn.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:51 am
I’m guessing Lyle wrote “continuously” to mean between gasoline fill-ups.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Small clarification in the article…NVH is Noise Vibration _Harshness_
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:55 am
If the trip was for bad roads, they could’ve stayed in Milford. I can vouch for Michigan roads being as bad as any in the country. I drive them every day. I live in Milford and see Volts zooming around town all the time. It’s cool to see
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:57 am
This ride, in a way, is some sort of marketing already. In fact, this site is free marketing, thanks to the efforts of Lyle and other contributors.
As for the black bumpers, it’s standard procedure to mask the final look of the car while testing in the real world. If you search ’spy photos’ of cars in final testing, you will get that kind of treatment. Generally much worse, as a matter of fact.
GM has already a jump on the competition in my point of view. They will offer an interesting novelty that will soon (hopefully) be affordable.
No need to worry, everything is on track. Hamtrack, that is.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Is it helping the competition or make them worry that they are late comers to this new market ?
The more manufacturers involved in developping EV cars, the better. If this site is improving awareness, that’s great.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:05 am
Whoa, had to do a double take… I thought Tagamet was on a trial separation from this website. Hi there, Jim.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:06 am
There will be lots of time to draw crowds and have PR frenzies. This was a working trip.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:08 am
Yeah, what’s up with those style posts? It’s like some sort of bot-tagging. Annoying as heck.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:11 am
I’m inclined to believe the PPV’s will be painted in ‘real’ colors. Recall that these are all IVERs and received minimal exterior treatments.
Although I’m partial to black and have seen one dressed in that, I’m getting impatient to see some brighter, lively colors, too! But it’s coming!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:12 am
I grew up just north of Baltimore and went to school in New England , so I’d take 83 to 81 into Jersey. 83 always had 20 years more use (so it appeared and felt) as soon as you hit that sign and then 81 was one lane for 2 miles every 10 miles for my entire college career. It’s not like PA doesn’t start projects but damn does it take forever to finish them.
Eh, I’ll take the lower taxes and just avoid potholes
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Great day! Oh, did anyone get that charge sustaining highway number yet? Ball park? 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, 50’s mpg?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Thanks Phil! Great looking photo shoot,
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Google Map directions from Milford MI to Pitsburgh PA “307 mi – about 4 hours 52 mins”.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Gsned57,
I live in Central PA and agree about the roads. Granted we have a very large network of roads, a lot of the major routes are in ill-repair. Perfect to take your prototype vehicle for testing IMO!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Hey, I counted 7 cars and 25 peeps. I wonder if some Volts had 3 peeps in the car and some had 4.
Or were there more cars?
Hmmmmm…..
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:45 am
I remember a while back the volt team talking about sourcing special low electricity parts such as wipers, etc.
Do we know if the Volt will use normal headlights or if it will use LED/fluorescent lights?
I wonder how much that could cut power consumption. It would certainly make the $40k price tag more reasonable.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:45 am
If they left Milford fully charged and with 6 gallons of gas they most likely did not need to stop for a fill-up. 40 miles EV + 6 X 45 = 310 miles. If they got 50 MPG with the engine it would be more like 40 + (6 X 50) = 340 miles.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Gsned57:
I totally agree with you on the idea of a road tour which would allow the public to see, ride in, and hopefully drive, the Volt. They are going to have to do something to keep the buzz going for 3+ more years. I can’t think of a better way.
As to bad roads, CA is right up there with PA, or any other state. I saw a recent study which concluded that we have the most miles of substandard highways of any state in the country. I wouldn’t doubt it. Some sections of I-5 between San Farnacisco and LA are so bad you would think that you were in a 3rd world country. What a disgrace.
Another great post Dr. D. Well done!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:47 am
The catch phrase is….
The ICEAge is over, embrace the VoltAge!!!!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Randy:
Blow by Blow information is the new reality, and companies had better get ready to deal with it. If somebody my age is going to sit here and blog every day, think what the next generations will do with these capabilities.
It’s all good for GM. This is publicity that money can’t buy, because it’s coming from the grassroots, and not from some PR firm. People CAN tell the difference.
Dr. Lyle Dennis is giving this giant corporation a priceless education in the future of viral marketing. And we are all lending a helping hand. You’re welcome, GM.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:54 am
I like KISS….
Brake lights illuminating means your intention is to slow down regardless of what is happening in the car or the results of what is happening in the car that causes the slow down.
KISS.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:55 am
I’m starting to get used to the look of the car, and it’s okay. I still think it should be more distinctive, though.
Let’s see, by the most direct route, that’s ~306 miles one way. Which would be quite impossible for any battery-only vehicle. And that’s not even a particularly long trip by my standards. Yep, pretty good architecture for a general purpose car. (And no, I don’t want to rent a car or a trailer just to drive to the next state.)
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:58 am
I wonder how bad the batt pack hit would be if driving at knight with high beams on and the AC on in the summer nights from LA to a Vegas strip joynt?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:02 am
This really has nothing to do with this particular article, I could have written this any day. I wonder if GM really knows how much enthusiasm there is for this car? I don’t know if I am typical but I have never been excited about a small car or a run of the mill sedan before. I like sports cars – who doesn’t? I have 3 Vettes and 3 Camaros, some old, some new. I like pickups and SUV’s (quadrasteer crew cab and suburban) and I like full size and sporty Cadillacs (wife drives a deville).
I will trade any one of them for a Volt.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Assuming this happened in the last few weeks, why would they need air-conditioning in Michigan this time of year? More like the heater.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Hey wait, Corvette Guy, what about Green. I want green. Whah! (jumping up and down stamping my feet) I want green. I want green.
Can I pweese? Pweese can I have it? Whah, Whah!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:20 am
What was the total MPG for the 300 mile trip?
Did they use 1.3 gallons of gas like the 230 MPG number would suggest? (wink, wink)
Or was it closer to 7.5 gallons as I would suspect?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:26 am
regular lights.. LED for cars are too expensive now, I would prefer gold plated magnesium rims, more practical, same cost.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Well said, Noel.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:49 am
I’m just sayin’…
Nissan and Honda are showing off ‘finished’ product and generating a lot of buzz. Especially on this site!
Meanwhile, GM has 1 finished car in Silver and showed it off once on David Letterman’s show.
Many have stated GM is always late into the game. In this case, they are starting to look late for “the pre-game show”.
I still think they should pick it up a notch. Soon.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Yeah, but if the driver behind you sees red brake lights every single time you take your foot off the pedal, they’ll become desensitized and start to subconsciously assign less importance to them.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Gee, . . … thanks BobS!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Then they need to be shot for not understanding what a brake light is signaling. B-Regen will slow the car enough for the other driver to notice that it IS slowing down.
I get your point because I see many drivers riding their brakes. Usually it’s those 2foot drivers……lol, but I at least notice them slowing down when they are.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Personally, I think Honda is far behind in the game. Nissn however is in a different caliber of the market, but they will have a BEV at least.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
I think it would be more like 5 gallons since the first 40 miles would be all electric.
MPG really doesn’t matter to me. I just want a Volt!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
I drive a car with regenerative breaking regularly. (The Prius)
What this discussion is missing is that (from the driver’s perspective), there can be two kinds of regenerative braking. One is “foot off the gas”, and the other is “pressing the brake pedal”. The Prius uses both.
The “foot off gas” amount of regenerative breaking was set by the designers of the car to create about the amount of deceleration you would see from a conventional car with normal aerodynamics and underinflated high-rolling-resistance tires. So, when you let your foot off the gas, the regen kicks in — but most drivers won’t notice. It’s there so that the car doesn’t get away from normal people when “coasting”. (I’ve never had the patience to put the Prius into neutral and coast it to a stop. I get bored before I loose half my speed.)
When you put your foot on the brake, more regen kicks in, until you exceed the braking capacity of the electric motor (or stop).
So, the car behaves exactly the way normal drivers (both inside and outside the car) expect. So the brake-lights are tied to the brake-pedal just like they are in a normal car.
Even though there is clearly a lot of software controlling things behind the scenes, this system works very well, and I’d be surprised if the Volt behaved any differently. I mean, GM wants normal drivers to be comfortable in the Volt, right?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Already have one: http://www.gm-volt.com/galleries/
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Texas, two points:
• GM probably won’t know the range extender mode mileage number until next spring or summer. There are a lot of software optimizations involved in this.
• For most people, the mileage in range extender mode doesn’t matter that much. For example, a typical driver might see:
Vehicle ……………… Gallons per year
Volt 50 MPG ……….. 37
Volt 45 MPG ……….. 41
Volt 40 MPG ……….. 46
Prius ………………… 228
30 MPG car ………… 380
20 MPG car ………… 570
Bottom line: GM announced the 230 MPG knowing they can make this easily.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Seems to me that brake lights during regen were discussed earlier with a GM representative and they ‘were not’ going to activate brake lights unless the driver pressed the brake pedal.
It would be very annoying for brake lghts to come on if I was following and they weren’t actually stopping/slowing substantially. Like somebody riding the brakes.
Any car driven in second gear (auto, autostick, or manual) would have the same deceleration affect as regen. Brake lights are not activated in these scenarios.
I agree with an earlier post that brake light standards should be adjusted. However, I think that non-braking deceleration should be another color (like yellow) instead of lower-intensity red. Also, hard braking should be something like flashing red.
DOT standards (and most laws) are too specific. They should just specify the height above pavement and the intensity. That way we would get more variation than the three-red-eyed look we have now.
Anybody know if Volt has follow-me cuise control? And/or collision avoidance? (auto braking).
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
The sentence still needs help, even if we correct the acronym. I think he was trying to say, “The sound quality and HVAC comfort is good, and the NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) of the vehicle is excellent.”
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
I agree! That is a neat idea. If the heavy regen matches the word choice, the drivers behind would appreciate it too.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
I agree. It depends on the game. Volt is in the EREV game.
Nissan is in the BEV game.
GM is going to win the EREV game.
The Volt is being made the correct way. Fully electric and with a range extender. I can take it from the East Coast and go visit Noel Park on the West Coast. The only down side is I will have to stop often to buy gas because of its low extended range.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
That was an astute observation and a clever way of estimating the payload for each car. Nice. But are we sure these pics are from this trip? My guess would be “yes” because from from the trees and jackets we know they weren’t taken last month!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
ron64:
I wonder too.
I wouldn’t trade my old Corvettes, and I need my trucks for work, but I would trade the good old Impala SS in a heartbeat, or just put down the cash. Right now!
LJGTVWOTR!!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
No offense taken, by me at least, but I’d have to disagree with your suggestion. End users are terrible testers. They don’t identify issues well and report far too many false positives. They’ll be time for end user testing down the road, but where they are now in the process is not the right time. It would slow the things down, and for sure that’s not what we want. Let the engineers with all their instrumentation do their thing.
But the time time for test drives of the “almost finished” product is getting close!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
If the volt comes in at under 30 mpg in RE mode, it’s going to be a real problem.
People are going to want to use the range extender (they paid for it didn’t they?). If they go on a couple of long road trips and the mpg is under 30, then the annual fuel usage will soon be near that of a prius. There’s no way you could ever justify the extra $20,000 purchase price (or the battery replacement cost at year x).
Volt mpg 40 to 50 . . it’s ok.
Volt mpg 30 to 40 . . it’s a detractor, but not a deal killer.
Volt mpg 20 to 30 . . .it’s a flop.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Tag put Rashiid and I in charge of the “everything is wonderful” duty while he is away……
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
You guys can work for free if you want to, but I expect to get paid for all the hard work I put into these posts that directly benefit GM.
My accrued bill to date is $759,432,617.18.
Does anyone have the address at GM where I can send the invoice??
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Texas
I googled [ford reflex mpg] and found 60mpg. The Ford reflex WAS a Ford CONCEPT vehicle that was a Diesel electric drive system in a very sportty car. It did not have any battery to even out the load or any EV range.
But IF this Ford Reflex could get 60 mpg without the advantage of selecting sweet spot rpm’s Then I dare hope the Volt will get the 50 mpg.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
This is Super Cool!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
I felt the same way of the New Camaro…but when you see it in person with full paint and detail…they become amazing again.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Careful…oil hit $75 today…
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
The Chu is The Man. Nuff said.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Good luck with that! Let us know how you make out on that one Jim.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
I would take time off from work get myself to Detroit in order to help test-drive a technologically innovative car!
No matter how much data-logging equipment and backseat-driving from a pro it took!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
My vote would be: “feel the 0-RPM torque, b1tch3s!”
I rode on a hybrid-electric city bus this morning. The diesel motor runs continuously, but it charges a stack of batteries while it’s decelerating and stopped. It’s the smoothest and quietest city bus I’ve ever seen. There was no jerking when the big engine changes gears, no high-revving, no jerking when the bus first starts to move — it was just smoothly controlled acceleration and deceleration. It was a big articulated bus, too. It served to remind me how cool it will be when I get to drive an electric car.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Thank you Phil. I appreciate that.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
link to death valley testing.
http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2009/10/spy-video-2011-chevrolet-volt-testing-in-the-desert.html?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..5.*
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Looking at the Volt’s Facebook page, it appears the typical load was two adults. There was also a large SUV (or maybe several) that contained some of those extra people. Hopefully one car was fully stocked with 4 people for the entire trip, but really I don’t care.
60% of my yearly miles are driven with just the driver
35% are driven with two people total
3% are driven with two people + tons of stuff
2% are driven with 3 or more
Which I think is fairly typical for a Compact/Subcompact Sedan whoose strength is commuting daily… so I’d prefer they really nail down 1/2 person performance.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Carcus, I just don’t see how the Volt could get less than 40 mpg in Charge Sustaining mode. They have tuned the I4 for efficiency, it will only operate at 2 or 3 of its optimal rpms, the car is going to have a better cDa than the Cruze which will get 45 on the highway, and the Volt will allow the generator to send electricity both to the motor and in some cases back to the battery. GM sent out a graph of battery levels over a typical day and it clearly showed that the ICE would be cycling on and off as the battery cycled between what looked like 30% and 35% state of charge. If the ICE is off part of the time, even if the Volt is getting 45 mpg when the ICE is on, you will be getting 50+ because the ICE won’t be on all the time. If the sweet spots are 25 hp, 45 hp and 70 hp, even at the lower sweet spot, there would be noticeable amounts of energy flowing back into the battery. If the Volt generator operates at 45 hp, more than half the electricity generated will flow back into the battery in town, and the engine would still be operating super quietly. I can definitely see the Volt operating in CS mode for 12 minutes or around 6 miles and the battery goes back up from 30% to 35%, which pops the Volt back into CD for another 10 minutes/5 miles, repeat as needed.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Volt vs. Cruze (which will not get 45 mpg), couple things . . .
1. The Volt is 800 lbs heavier
2. Generator Efficiency Losses.
The cruze will probably only experience 5% drivetrain losses. The volt could see 15%, 20%,or even more under high load conditions due to generator and other efficiency losses in the control electronics.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
And Mr. Chu gave 1/3 of a billion dollars of US taxpayer money to a Norwegian electric car company that has produced not a single car but promises to make a concept vehicle or two “soon”, in Norway.
Al Gore, that Noble Peace Prize Winner, just accidentally is a major owner of Fisker. Just a coincidence, Naturally.
Did any one mention that it helps to be politically connected Democrat?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
I’m a bit hesitant of LED headlights unless they have some sort of defroster heating elements built in.
Reason why: when driving in blowing snow in the winter in my car, the bumper and hood gets caked with snow while the headlights remain clear.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
I second the comment, profusely!!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Stop Often?
My Scion XB gets about 280 miles before the Low Fuel light comes on (after 9 gallons).
That is typically 4 hours of continuous driving. I dont know many people that want to drive that much without stopping to pee or eat or stretch…
I think the X-Range is adequate for most drivers.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
I think the aerodynamics of this vehicle along with the 1.4L efficiency tuned engine should net this car 50MPG Minimum in CS Mode. I mean GM gets 30MPG Hwy out of a Saturn Vue…
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
carcus ,
How in the world can you even consider that possibility that a tiny 1.4 liter engine running at it highest BSFC rpm is going to produce any figure even close to 20 or 30 mpg? or even 40 mpg?
And what difference would it make to the average VOLT owner who uses zero gasoline every day. And occasionally on trips uses next to zero gasoline…
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
“I wonder how bad the batt pack hit would be if driving at knight… ”
Depends on how well the knight aims his lance…..
now night time is a different story…lol
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
There’s no need for ‘camoflauge’ on the VOLT.
We’ve already seen the final design….. or have we…?
Could it be that these black bumpers are there as temps because they are going to “freshen it up”? There has been a lot of negative comments on this site about its ‘plain vanilla’ styling.
Maybe we will see something more “converj”-like after all.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
That first pic looks like a race….
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Nick D:
I agree. +1
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
Rashiid:
Thanks. It’s tough trying to stay up with you. It’s fun to see you commenting at allcarselectric.com. More power to you, my friend.
Schmeltz:
Yeah, he can send it in there and they will put it right in the same big round filing cabinet with the rest of the bills, LOL.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
I’ll keep my Vette – but my wife will gladly trade-in her Altima SL for the VOLT. I hope the seats are as comfy as they are hinting at.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Carcus1
If it comes in at under 30mpg on the highway it will be worse than my 99 buick. And way worse than the Ford C O N C E P T reflex which was a diesel electric drive system with no battery for BEV mode and was said to get 60 mpg.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Dave G in post #1 wrote:
Vehicle ……………… Gallons per year
Volt 50 MPG ……….. 37
Volt 45 MPG ……….. 41
Volt 40 MPG ……….. 46
Prius ………………… 228
30 MPG car ………… 380
20 MPG car ………… 570
Couple points.
- Dave is assuming a typical car will drive 11,400 miles a year and 1850 will be beyond AER. The average car will drive much more than that. 2 Car families will take the EV whenever possible. Drivers will quickly figure how to charge at work or somewhere else during the day to extend the AER.
- GM needs to come out with an SUV and a VAN EREV. This will replace much more gas. The volt is compared to the Prius and that comparison doesn’t save as much gas. What about a Suburban or some Minivan that only gets 25 mpg. There is much more gas to be saved in those cars.
I know I’ll be able to exceed 15,000 miles AER easily by charging some during the day, imagine the fuel savings in a Suburban at $5 gallon.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
CorvetteGuy:
Well the Impala is actually my wife’s, so it’s easy for me to talk, LOL. By the time the Volt is widely available it will be 17 years old and have 150K+ miles on it, so it probably won’t be worth anything anyway. If I can find a place to keep it, maybe we can just drive it down to cruise night once in awhile. As you know, the 94-96s have a bit of a cult following here in SoCal. It’s us and about 1000 homeboys, hahaha.
BTW, did you see the Chevy promo for the Caprice “PPV” – Police Patrol Vehicle? 6.0 V8, 6 speed auto, 4 doors. Is that a do over of the G-8? Only available to police agencies as I read it. Now that could give the old Caprice based Impalas a run for their money for sure. I wonder how much it weighs?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Well, alrighty, keep up the good work then!!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
If I could, Luke, I’d give you a +1 for the informative bus paragraph, and *another* +1 for the catchy slogan!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Jim, I’d be happy to give you the address, but there’s a $759,432,000 finder’s fee. (You can keep the $617.18
.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
“Let he among you who is perfect cast the first stone.”
Which lets me out for sure, LOL.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Maybe they put three “larger” guys in the cars without a fourth, to make ‘em all near a targeted average payload. Or maybe they added cargo to make up the difference. Or maybe they made “weight, cargo+passengers” a plotted data point. Who knows.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Ford reflex was turbo diesel and series/parallel. Mpg was estimated (but never verified, to my knowledge) at 40 to 65.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
“My accrued bill to date is $759,432,617.18.
Does anyone have the address at GM where I can send the invoice??”
_____________________
Here you go.
http://www.ustreas.gov/
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
….and it actually might get paid (at first)…..(lol).
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
I agree completely, with CJSparrow. Levels and gradations are great for websites, but brake lights being a simple, Give the driver in front of you adequate room when when you see red, is as complex as we need.
Taking even a split second to deliberate; hey ‘was that red flash – covering the brake, thinking about braking, a warning, or slamming on the brakes?’ allows hundreds of feet to roll by at highway speeds, obscuring decisions that could save our lives. IMO too many options is a bad option.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
CJS
You live in northern California, how often would you even make that trip, stop posing as a bad boy
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
[And what difference would it make to the average VOLT owner who uses zero gasoline every day. And occasionally on trips uses next to zero gasoline…]
Alot when my commute is 67 miles one way with no charge station at work. This is a very heavy car and expecting the small carbon banger polluter to get over 45mpg is a longshot. 3500lbs for the car is it not? This things a heavy mini bradley tank.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Yeah, I didn’t notice an issue with 300 miles, but 300 miles in NINE hours? That’s an average speed under 35 miles an hour. Just how congested are the freeways up there, anyway?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
[I think the aerodynamics of this vehicle along with the 1.4L efficiency tuned engine should net this car 50MPG Minimum in CS Mode. I mean GM gets 30MPG Hwy out of a Saturn Vue…]
Whay are you comparing two totally different engines? They’re not even close and where the hell did you get 30mpg on an Vue? Are you assuming a mild hybrid? Sure they get only ~30mpg but for any “Hybrid” thats a retarded joke.
http://www.edmunds.com/saturn/vue/2009/review.html
“front-drive Vues with the four-cylinder get an EPA estimate of 19 mpg city/26 mpg ”
http://www.edmunds.com/saturn/vuehybrid/2009/review.html
“Fuel economy estimates are 25 mpg city/32 mpg highway and 28 mpg combined.”
If the highway MPG is less than the Prius then this car is toast.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
[They have tuned the I4 for efficiency]
Thats either a flat out lie or you’re an idiot. As many posters here have already explained, the ICE is tuned to several rpm ranges. Many have also stated and are correct that an ICE has only one narrow rpm efficiency range not several. This means that at any given time, the car will NOT be in it’s efficien range and it’s more probably that whatever range that is, it may rearely even be at that point.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
When do you drive with only half a person? Just kidding.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Actually, the LED lamps may put out a fair amount of heat, currently (no pun intended). The $7k optional ones on the Audi have cooling fans to help keep them cool.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
I saw a short article online about it, but nothing in our ordering system to get one of those bad boys. If I see anything on pricing, I will report it.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
I have a Honda hybrid and it only goes to full regen if I actually tap the brake pedal slightly; not hard enough to engage the mechanical brake. I find that I hardly ever use “foot off gas” regen and instead opt for “tap brake lightly and look like idiot” regen. I know everybody behind me is saying “wow, look at that idiot riding his brakes all the way down the hill!” and I’ll have everyone following me know that the idiot is riding his REGEN all the way down the hill, thank you very much.
In any case, the slowdown due to my full regen (with brake lights on) is much, much less than the slowdown in one of my manual transmission cars if I just downshift. The message conveyed by brake lights definitely requires more interpretation than it once did.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
[ Which would be quite impossible for any battery-only vehicle.]
Why do you even bother comparing a BEV to the Volt? What planet are you from?
They’re totally different cars. Why compare the lowest range BEV to a Gas polluter range? Apples and Oranges. Quit making invalid nonsense comparisons. Do you just do this to make thr Volt look better?
Take the first ship back tou your planet. There’s no inteligent life there.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Kind of lacks punch, though. I think Jeremy Clarkson (Top Gear) said, “MY GOD IT’S ELECTRIC! REALLY!” which I thought was pretty good.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Do not talk about bad roads and don’t mention NYC lovely crazy awful baddest roads in the country…………………….
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Wish they just drove one into my driveway.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
“Take the first ship back tou your planet. There’s no inteligent life there.”
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH……
BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….
Holy sh|t homie, you made me laugh so hard I almost pissed my pants.
Yeah yeah, I know, spell check doesn’t work/get used all the time so don’t flame, but dang, you gotta admit that was funny as hell.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
I believe payload would be a problem… that they (or somebody else) will probably overcome soon. It would probably cut the EV range in half or more. For instance a Honda Civic gets over 30mph but a Honda Pilot gets less than 20. However I, and many others, would still buy a van with a 50 mile EV range + ICE extender.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Captain:
Yup, I gotta admit it. I thought we were getting a vacation from the troll(s), but I guess it’s coming to an end. As long as they don’t steal your name, LOL.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
jeffhre:
Reno?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
A Prius weighs over 3100#.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Dude, I think GM will kick in some electrons to boost mpg. Technically they can do that to a certain extent. But we’ll see what comes up. I know when they came out with that crazy 230mpg thang they also said highway was 100mpg. How the highway mpg was derrived I dunno. Any guesses?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Steal my name?
huh?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Conversion companies don’t benefit at all from the same amounts of volume that companies like GM do.
When the official BEV Ford Focus comes out in 2011, I would imagine it would get about 100 miles and cost ~$30-40k.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Cars are getting heavier. ~3000lbs is fairly common in cars. Most compact sedans with stock engines are ~2700-2800lbs. With a bigger engine they can weigh near 3000lbs.
Mid-sized sedans with 4 cylinders weigh ~3300lbs. With V6s they weigh ~3600lbs.
So the Volt isn’t that heavy.
From a previous post, weight matters less than aerodynamics in terms of efficiency (esp at highway speeds where EVs tend to do worse).
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Not to mention: No belching of obnoxious black smoke when accelerating from a dead stop.
Which makes me wonder: has anyone done a study of the overall reduction in particulate pollution is possible by running diesel/electric hybrids? Any guesses whether it might be significant?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
For example, a typical driver might see:
Vehicle ……………… Gallons per year
Volt 50 MPG ……….. 37
Volt 45 MPG ……….. 41
Volt 40 MPG ……….. 46
______________________
For some owners. But those that drive further, the numbers looks quite different.
14,600 miles per year is the maximum electric-only, nightly recharge distance realistically available. (40 * 365 = 14,600)
Those who drive 20,000 annually will use considerably more gas. Optimistically, the 5,400 mile difference at 50 MPG consumes 108 gallons.
That’s a whole lot more than the 37. In fact, not mentioning annual distance could be considered greenwashing. So again, please include that essential detail.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
I’m sure an SUV/VAN would need a 24kwh battery to do what the Volt can do with the 16 KWH.
However a 32kwh battery in 2014 will probably cost the same as the 16kwh battery in the 2011 Volt. So it’s time to start getting those babies on the drawing board.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
If the volt comes in at under 30 mpg in RE mode, it’s going to be a real problem.
Carcus, who knows what the MPG in CS mode will ultimately prove to be, but we are getting some clues. On the first day of the trip they filled up once with gas (not E85) and drove more than 300 miles.
If we wanted to assume the worst, we’d assume that they went 40 miles in EV mode, only went 300 miles, and then used every drop of gas before the refill. That would mean they went 260 miles on 8 gallons of gas and got an MPG of 32.5.
But this isn’t very realistic. More likely would be that they went slightly more than 300 miles and, most importantly, didn’t drain the tank before the refill. My guess would be that they drove 310 miles, 40 of which were in EV mode, and they filled the tank when they had used 6 gallons. Using these assumptions you’re looking at 45 MPG. If you wanted to be very optimistic you might say they went 320 miles and used 5 gallons, which would result in a 56 MPG number.
Anything is possible but I’d be inclined to go with the middle MPG number. Just thinking about human nature, most likely if they had gone 320 miles they would have said they went “almost 325 miles”. They said “over 300″ so I’m going with 310 – 315. On when they filled up, my guess is that after seven hours or so on the road they were just waiting for the tank to hit some level in order to call it a day. They wouldn’t want to cut it too close because that would mess with the test results, and they wouldn’t want to quit too early, so my SWAG is that when the tank hit 1/4 they were filled up and started looking for a hotel/motel.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
More pics.
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/volt-road-trip/
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
“…did anyone get that charge sustaining highway number yet? Ball park?”
The only numbers we have now are related to the Cruze.
1.4L ICE @ 2500 (?) rpm = 40 mpg highway
The Volt 1.4L ICE charge sustain system will be optimized to drive an electric generator. It will not work as hard as the Cruze system. The ICE rpm should run somewhat less than 2500 at highway speed. And possibly less than 2000 rpm at city speeds.
It’s likely the Volt will have two operating profiles. One being a mild ICE rpm profile for economy. The other being a sport profile for high speeds, climbing, or towing.
The ICE charge sustain mode mpg is all about rpm. At 60 mph the Volt will travel one mile per minute. Economy mode may do this at 2200 rpm or 132000 total revs. Sport mode at 2400rpm or 144000 total revs. We don’t know yet.
The Volt weighs more than the Cruze. While this cuts into the highway mpg number. The higher weight of the Volt is offset with advanced Voltec aero, regen braking, and low rolling resistance tires. A heavier car translates to a more solid feeling car. Weight also makes for increased control and safety in windy conditions.
I believe the average driver in will achieve between 45-55 mpg ICE sustaining mode (economy) highway. And 22% higher mpg in ICE city driving (62mpg).
Will the Volt default to “economy” mode with each restart? Will the Volt advise the driver when it requires “sport” mode settings? Will all of this be done intuitively with the driver out of the loop?
=D~
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Prioblem is we don’t drive in a vacuum and I bet you don’t hit your breaks as hard as you can every time you see break lights come on. Nobody that I know actually drives this way. They, and I, judge what “type” of breaking is occurring by other events such as stop lights, cars breaking in front, obstructions, etc. We break according to perception of all relevent events. Aoeba’s can adjust to sunlight. I’m pretty confident humans can react to 2 levels of break lights and I believe they can react more consistantly and more rapidly than they react without it.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Just remember everyone (also that poster that put down 60 mpg). If those numbers were true for real vehicles, we would already have serial hybrids (non-plug-in) that would beat the Prius. Right?
Don’t kid yourself about running in the sweet-spot. You will need to run the ICE exactly (or nearly at) what the vehicle needs or you will need to run the vehicle and store energy (if the gen is putting out more) or run the vehicle and deplete the battery (if the gen is putting out less). If the battery is already depleted, the ICE can ONLY run AT LEAST as hard as needed to run the vehicle at the desired speed, not less. I think people are forgetting this or think energy comes from the energy gods.
We use serial electric drivetrains for many reasons but efficiency is not one of them. Sorry, but true. Otherwise we would already have them on the roads. It’s NOT new technology, folks.
Again, I want to state that I don’t think this number is that important (stated this many times over the past months). I just want people prepared for this number and realize that it won’t make much difference to average drivers.
If you do a lot of highway miles, get a diesel powered vehicle. The new clean burning diesels will be perfect for that application. Besides, there looks to be real promise in biofuels. Your diesel powered vehicle will run biodiesel with no modifications.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
I didn’t perceive this to be a discussion about what to do when the break pedal is depressed. There isn’t anything to discuss about that situation as far as the Volt is concerned. The issue is how to handle accellerator lift-off regen. If the Volt only ends up having stronger regen than the Prius, which GM has indicated it will be more like Tesla’s, then they must be implementing some method of engaging the break lights with lift-off regen.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
hi Tex … You mentioned ~ if so good, why not already in use?
I see two reasons why not. The first being the initial cost of the vehicle. The Volt will cost 10K more than a similar size Asian sedan. Second, our caring friend BIG OIL has not only campaigned hard to maintain oil addiction. They have gone so far as buy out competitive ways and means to bypass the use of petroleum.
It’s hard to believe the bonds of oil addition are finally loosening from around our ankles.
=D~
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
The cars were driven for more than 9 hours and 300 miles continuously in a special effort to analyze their behavior, performance, and comfort on such a long drive in real word conditions.
Just enough info to cause speculation of the charge sustaining mode MPG and the fuel tank capacity.
————————————————————–
What a total tease!
I guess if the fans knew everything…it would take some fun out of it. But I have to agree…these are important specs that will drive buying decisions. Someone will crunch the numbers when the data becomes available…and report how so called “green” the Volt is.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Most people invest in what they believe in. Keep kicking the Gore dog. It is becoming and serves your purpose so well.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
That is one poorly worded and poorly thought out or more appropriately termed, thoughtless comment.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
I don’t think anybody else “wants” to do those things either but costs and/or efficiency may force compromises.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Agree with Nick D. Most drivers are not long-haul truckers.
Last weekend I took a 420mi run (and back). Stopped a couple times each way.
No reason to run the entire 400+ without stopping even though I technically could.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
I hope we will get to hear about the Volt being tested in the snow or even a blizzard during the winter months now that would be whole new leaf for GM. Even four wheel drive would be nice but I’m not sure if the Volt has that type of feature? Plus they should test the battery in frigid
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
It is standard practice to use fake bumpers and other stealth when road-testing pre-production cars. I would not like to see a full-on Volt on the road this early in the development cycle.
You need something left to the imagination!
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Shoot! I was there (Pittsburgh) today, and I missed them.
Since this is a route I sometimes take, I wonder what gas mileage the vehicles achieved on the drive?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Mike-O-Matic
I got a + for you on Luke.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Temperatures in the negative minuses so they know if the batteries can withstand subzero temperatures to see how long the batteries can live before they die it would be a great accomplishment to see if they will perform harsh test like these on the Volt during the winter months. Go GM don’t give up if you can succeed with green technology then the future of automobiles will be cleaner, brighter, we won’t have to worry about smog emissions, or the smell and maybe even global warming?
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Noel Park—
You got a + from me.
Be well
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Dave,
Actually the Volt, being Civic-sized from what I understand, costs ~$23,000 more than “a similar size Asian sedan”. Probably more like $32,000 when you add in financing and taxes and depreciation.
I think it is worth pointing out that even a small relatively fuel efficient engine running at a fixed RPM can use no fuel or huge amounts (< 5MPG). From what I can tell the load makes the difference. Therefore your RPM ‘calculations’ are largely meaningless.
I also want to mention that if one wanted to build just a non-plug-in serial hybrid one could do so for a lot less cost than the Volt. Most of the Volt’s cost comes from the battery and most of the battery is needed to take advantage of the plug, not for the serial capability.
Of course the most obvious reason why GM won’t hit 50MPG is that number is old (And with a different engine) and we KNOW GM is willing to talk about any positives, no matter how trivial (comfortable seats, XM radio, 230 MPG, etc.). Not that it matters… anyone who does a lot of ICE driving shouldn’t buy the Volt to begin with.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Well, that’s a lot of guessing Don. But I’ll go further.
Maybe they took it (one of the volt’s anyway) all the way to E to see if the engine shut down/ battery buffer zone takeover feature worked that tells you you’re now running on reserve battery power and have 2 miles to get off the highway before you’re absolutely dead in the water.
Perhaps that was at just over 300 miles and perhaps that Detroit News report was right on the 8 gallon gas tank. Perhaps the Volt then does get about 33 mpg.
Perhaps.
/I’d also guess they have mechanics, toolboxes, extra gas, and trailering capabilities on any one of these gaggle outings.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Dave,
I also think you should stop assuming 40 miles electric. Even “everythings perfect except tiny things that don’t even matter”-Farrah hasn’t managed 40 miles electric yet.
“GM has always promised the Volt’s 16 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery will provide a range of 40 miles, and Farrah says the prototypes are in that ballpark. “Pre-production (vehicles) still have some improvements to make,” he said. “I myself have not personally gone 40 miles on a charge, but I’ve come close. I don’t see any problems getting to 40.””
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/volt-road-trip/
Imagine on the highway with AC what will happen.
As for improvements in the production car… it is possible. But remember GM’s Hybrid Buses actually got much WORSE fuel economy when then went into production because GM was using an illegal engine configuration (didn’t pass clean air regulations) during the King County trials.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
The simple thing would be to have either the taillights or the central brake-only light band – one or the other, not both – light up during conditions of regen; and both light up during braking. I see a government mandated standard here….. which is a good thing in that operational consistency makes for a safer driving environment.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
staz, watching Faux News is going to make you need Viagra, if you don’t already.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Oh, Nissan has a BEV, huh? I thought it looked more like a CARP. That’ll sell like CRAP.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Those who drive 20,000 miles annually are not typical drivers.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
The “over 300″ miles is solid. They’re not going to get that wrong. The 8 gallon tank also seems pretty solid. I’ve seen it so often in so many places. But if that’s off then the guess as to how much gas they used is most certainly off.
And of course I’m just guessing. Nothing solid for sure, and I could come up with any number of scenarios. I’m just going with the most probable, and as we know probable is not actual.
On whether they bring tools and extra gas and so forth, in the pics from Voltage all I saw were guys in suits with computers. (Suits? What’s with engineers with suits? Did they not get the memo that the 1960s are, like, over man?)
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
The Chevy Volt’s Electric Range is 40 Miles in Both Highway and City Driving
http://gm-volt.com/2009/04/24/the-chevy-volts-electric-range-is-40-miles-in-both-highway-and-city-driving/
Translation: 40 miles AER is not a stretch goal for GM, it is their primary goal. They will do everything possible to make sure the Volt gets 40 miles AER in both the highway and city EPA cycles. Remember that the low-level software that controls the motor, inverter, gas engine, etc, is far from finished.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Dave K. Says:
The only numbers we have now are related to the Cruze.
1.4L ICE @ 2500 (?) rpm = 40 mpg highway
————————————————————————————–
The Cruze uses an Otto cam tuning, the Volt uses Atkinson:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle
Note that the Prius gets 50 MPG with a 1.8L Atkinson engine.
======================================================
GXT Says:“…even a small relatively fuel efficient engine running at a fixed RPM can use no fuel or huge amounts (< 5MPG)… Therefore your RPM ‘calculations’ are largely meaningless.”
————————————————————————————–
Yes, good point. RPM and fuel consumption are not necessarily related.
For example, a regular car engine may use 2500 RPM to go 60 MPH in the highest gear. If you are going downhill at 60 MPH or uphill at 60 MPH in the same gear, the RPM is the same, but the mileage would be very different. In other words, the amount of fuel used relates to the load on the engine, and this load can be very different at the same RPMs.
(Quote)
October 14th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
hi GXT … I mentioned that the initial cost of the Volt is 10K more than a similar Asian sedan. Be sure to include the 6 cylinder engine, NAV, OnStar, and leather. And don’t forget to deduct the tax credit off the price of the Volt.
2009 Toyota Camry
XLE 4dr Sedan (3.5L 6cyl 6A)
MSRP:
From $28,695
______________________________
2009 Lexus ES 350 Specs
4dr Sedan (3.5L 6cyl 6A)
MSRP:
From $34,470
______________________________
Is the Civic available in a 6 cylinder?
=D~
(Quote)
October 15th, 2009 at 12:21 am
15,000 miles per year is the standard industry measure.
Yet, the value you keep using is 3,620 miles less, without disclosure.
That’s an intentional misrepresentation of what consumers expect.
(Quote)
October 15th, 2009 at 1:10 am
The goods news just keeps on rolling in!
(Quote)
October 15th, 2009 at 4:29 am
Consumer Reports has been using 12,000 miles per year as their standard. For example, here’s a report they did back when gas was $4/gallon.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzenu6hr/ebay_pictures/cr_hy_3.jpg
I believe others use 12,000 miles as well.
I’ve actually never heard of 15,000 miles as a standard for a typical driver. Where does this come from?
(Quote)
October 15th, 2009 at 4:51 am
In case your daily commute is more than 40 miles like Rashiil Amul is doing and you have day time charge possibility then you can get best fuel economy and best ROI out of investment. In case you are traveling every day to you work place and back more than 80 miles and you have electric outlet at parking lot at your work place – Chevy Volt is best choice for you.
Excluding weekend your annual gasoline economy would be at least 200×80/30*$2,5=$ 1 300. Some added economy would maintanace and fuel price inflation plus environmental benefits and you end up $ 2000 economy every year. Those money you can deduct from your car lease payment bill.
(Quote)
October 15th, 2009 at 4:56 am
Dave G & GXT ….
“GXT Says:“…even a small relatively fuel efficient engine running at a fixed RPM can use no fuel or huge amounts (< 5MPG)… Therefore your RPM ‘calculations’ are largely meaningless.”
“Dave G Says:”Yes, good point. RPM and fuel consumption are not necessarily related.”
_________________________________________________
The figures I listed are related to a 1.4L internal combustion engine spinning a generator in the Voltec system.
An ICE powered car which directly drives the transmission and two 18″ wheels will use a small amount of gasoline when it’s coasting downhill @ 2500 rpm. An ICE powered car which directly drives the transmission and two 18″ wheels will use a large amount of gasoline when it’s climbing Pike’s Peak @ 2500 rpm.
The Voltec system uses the ICE to spin a generator at a steady efficient rate. No transmission to push. No 18″ wheels to spin. Am I missing something here?
Either I’m way off base. Or someone is bitter about NGMCO holding the mpg figures until the final adjustments are completed.
=D~
(Quote)
October 15th, 2009 at 5:00 am
GXT .. I posted a video here last week wherein a GM engineer continually mentions tweaks and adjustments “ensuring” 40 miles on electric. I will go with this until proven otherwise.
=D~
(Quote)
October 15th, 2009 at 5:41 am
I enjoy seeing you there as well, my friend.
I don’t recognize most posters there, do you?
(Quote)
October 15th, 2009 at 8:12 am
15,000 was an adjustment many years ago, when it was discovered that consumers drive further… as with the discovery of EPA estimates being way off too.
So, then why aren’t you using 12,000?
Of course, we know that the 40-mile range is quite optimistic too. Lyle’s estimate is a 10% to 15% drop in mild winter. 90 days of only 34-mile range (Dec-Feb in Minnesota) certainly wasn’t accounted for.
(Quote)
October 15th, 2009 at 9:27 am
15k is the standard for the 1st year of use is the DOT 17 year lifecycle. But it is closer to 12k I believe for the average year… you may be right that it is inaccurate.
(Quote)
October 15th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Those photos look great! Its nice to actually see it compared to other cars. Lets me know the first thing I am going to do… LOWER IT!
(Quote)
October 15th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
October 16th, 2009 at 5:58 am
Volt posse refueling….
http://garfwod.250free.com/volt%20e85.jpg
=D~
(Quote)
October 16th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
October 17th, 2009 at 11:20 am
One of these guys should get a ticket for speeding at 100 mph.
That would be good publicity
(Quote)