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Clarification: GM’s Chevy Volt Build Schedule for 2010

October 13th, 2009 | Posted in: Production

Some recently published numbers about Volt prototype production volume are inaccurate.

First, though the Detroit Press reported the 74th car was the final Volt prototype built at GM’s pre-production plant in Warren, according to Bob Warner, GMs Director Global Pre-Production Operations, it was actually the 80th.

“The 80 vehicles we built are now entering the next stage of development, which includes a series of crash tests, developmental drives, battery checks, climate tests and other measures we take to make sure the production vehicles meet our high standards,” he said.

Also, we reported that GM is preparing to begin building the next phase of Chevy Volts called pre-production or validation vehicles at the full scale production plant in Hamtramck Michigan next quarter.

Volt vehicle line engineer Tony Posawatz told us GM will build cars in “the two to three thousand range” of volume.

This led some of us to wonder what would become of all those cars if they weren’t saleable, as it seemed a rather high volume for prototypes.

When asked about that, it turned out Mr Posawatz wasn’t referring to PPVs with that number.

“The (PPV) number is much smaller,” he said. “It is easy to get caught up in terminology, certainly less than 100 non-saleable units beginning with PPV’s (will be built).”

Thus once those non-saleable PPVs have been built and the process for building them well understood and the tools for making them completed, GM will begin cranking out final Volts in significant volume.

It is therefore those Volts for sale that GM will build 2000 to 3000 of in the 2010 calendar year.

Posted by: Lyle

143 Responses to “Clarification: GM’s Chevy Volt Build Schedule for 2010”

+2 Herm Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 8:33 am

that makes more sense, what purpose could be served by 3000 pre-production prototypes?

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ronr64 Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 8:36 am

In the answer and question from the previous post this exchange occurred.

“PPVs are not saleable?
No, they’re not saleable yet”

Notice the word, “yet”. This led me to believe that at least a portion of this 2000 number of vehicles would be saleable.

Now it appears that only a couple of hundred are true PPV vehicles with the rest being… Post PPV?

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-1 The P.E. Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 8:38 am

Suspicious minds like my own are wondering if there is any clue that can be gleaned between the “74″ number and the “80″ number.
Is it possible that there are 6 volts out there that have a special duty or task to perform during their sojourn through this life?
This may help us understand why the 74 number was given out.

hmmmmmm. I say hmmmmmm.

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+1 Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:02 am

Hi,

the important thing is the Volt will be built, … the numbers will follow. We are several thousands on the want list and competition is building up. Renault just contacted us to see if you were interested in their ZE vehicles and look at their blog ,more than 60% of voters are ready to buy an EV right on the spot without waiting the end of their old ICE car.

That means that the demand is there.

regards,

JC NPNS

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:03 am

Sorry I forgot the blog adress :
http://www.renault-ze.com/fr/blog
JC

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+3 Starcast Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:06 am

This did not seem right to me yesterday. But what do I know.
It must be great to be working on this vehicle. I just look forward to the day I can drive one. I am sure it will be a long time before I can buy one as so few will be built at first. Maybe late 2011?

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Starcast Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:11 am

Nice site if you can read French.

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+2 Rashiid Amul Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:12 am

Thanks for the clarification, Lyle.

From the article:
“The 80 vehicles we built are now entering the next stage of development, which includes a series of crash tests, developmental drives, battery checks, climate tests and other measures we take to make sure the production vehicles meet our high standards,” he said.

I hope the high standards they have today are way higher than the standards of yesteryear. Bad perceptions don’t come from nowhere.

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Gsned57 Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:21 am

WHAT, no volt demolition derby or cliff smashing??? Good to get some clarification. So, does that mean there will only be 2-3K volts in 2010? I thought the number floating around was 10,000 for sale in 2010 or is the 2,000-3000 just the number made by the end of the first quarter 2010?

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Gsned57 Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:24 am

I kinda thought the delta might have been the 6 vehicles we’ve been seeing for the last year (although I’m not sure if there were actually 6). How many were destroyed in the making of transformers II?

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Schmeltz Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:28 am

Yeah, 2000 – 3000 PPV’s seemed like one big, honking huge “Project Driveway” program–that’s for sure! LOL

Kudos to Lyle for getting the clarification.

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:31 am

Starcast,

An English version exists but is less documented,

Regards

http://www.renault-ze.com/uk/blog

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-1 Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:31 am

Gsned57,

I have the same question as you.

JC

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dorp7 Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:36 am

Yeah. GM needs to optimize their manufacturing line with a good run of PPVs, but if they couldn’t sell them, I doubt that they’d optimize enough to make back the money lost on 3000 units. sheesh that’s like 10 million bucks (ok a drop in the bucket for our government, but it might show up on the balance sheet somewhere).

So the big question is if the PPVs are saleable, what will they sell for? I’d be willing to buy one at a discount…

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+1 Kaspre Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:43 am

I really hope they’re planning to underpromise and overdeliver on production numbers for 2010. 2000-3000 units is kind of pathetic.

Consider the over 50,000 people on the gm-volt.com “Want List.” If you say that 4/5 of those people aren’t really in position to buy due to a variety of factors, that’s still 10,000 people trying to buy 3000 units. Even if you are more pessimistic and say that only 1/10 of the people on the list would actually buy one, that’s still over 5000 people and only 3000 units. And that isn’t considering the people who haven’t managed to stumble across this website but that are still willing and able to buy the car.

I know its a risky proposition to build large numbers of a new vehicle using unproven technology, but it seems like they’re being slightly overcautious on this point. After so many years of development and so many millions of dollars of investment, I would have expected them to be a bit more bold and confident.

2000-3000 is such a disappointingly timid, toe-in-the-water introduction. With those kind of numbers, most people won’t ever see or even know these cars exist, especially if their marketing efforts are similarly restrained. I hope we’re not looking at another engineered failure that they can point at and say, “See? Look at these abysmal sales numbers. Nobody wants electric vehicles!”

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+3 Loboc Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:47 am

These are 2011 model year cars.

They wouldn’t build all 10,000 in 2010, some would be built in 2011 until they switch the production lines for when 2012s start being built.

Lyle, when will VIN #1 (your car hopefully) be coming off the line?

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+2 Nick D Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:48 am

The article stated they would have the 2010 Model Year. Typically they Switch the model year around the start of Q3 so My thought was perhaps the 3000 will be model year 2010 and there will be an additional 7000 model year 2011 all released Nov 1 2010.

Just a thought

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Loboc Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:48 am

I also noticed that ‘yet’ in yesterday’s post. Seemed kind of funny at the time.

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-1 tom Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:53 am

I still don’t understand the production plans. So now we’re talking about only 3000 for entire 2010.

It would be nice to have an idea of how commited GM is to making this car available.

How many per month will be manufactured in Dec 2010.
How many per month by March 2011
How many per month by Sept 2011

Or are they perhaps keeping the numbers low and not discussing this because after the early adopters pay > 40K they already have a better cheaper GEN 2 on the drawing board?

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+2 RSBaker Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:53 am

I hope they’ll really be flogging the IVers and later the PPVs in testing! I mean I hope they abusing the motors and power trains to absolutely make sure they are bullit proof and will not fail. I say this because I recently saw an episode of BBCs Top Gear where they tested the Tesla Roadster on the track and both vehicles failed. One car’s battery kept overheating and the other would not seem to hold a charge. I don’t expect anything like this from Volt but I still hope they are testing these early cars to their limits.

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Kaspre Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:02 am

That’s a good point, Nick. I wasn’t considering the difference between model year and calendar year. That could explain some of it.

If they spend the first few months of the year setting up their production lines and getting the plants operational, then 2000-3000 units by, say June-July seems reasonable. After that point they might switch over and start producing 2011 model year vehicles?

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+2 Mike-o-Matic Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:09 am

I think that’s a little bit pessimistic. Previously, we were hearing numbers like “10,000 in the first year of production” which to me, means 12 full months of making production Volts.

Well, these will be made in the initial few months of production — not a full 12 months, and not after the big machine is rolling full-steam. It’ll pick up pace after that. Be of good cheer.

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old man Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:17 am

RSBaker

I went to the site offered yesterday by Dave in response to post #34. My reaction to the Top Gear test is that it was a hatchet job and I do not like hatchet jobs that put my product or someone else’s down.
The Tesla IS what it was designed, built, and marketed as, a sexy,sporty,fun to drive STREET CAR and not a race car. I fear the Volt will not last even 10 miles on that track in BEV mode. It was not designed to and will not be marketed as such.

I can not afford a Tesla but do appreciate what it is. A great sexy,sporty,fun to drive street car.

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Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:19 am

dorp7:

$3000 x $40,000 = $120 million, actually. Which just reinforces your point all the more, I guess.

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Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:28 am

Loboc:

I thought that we had always heard that they were going to build 10,000 units in 2010, 50-60,000 in 2011, and then “ramp up” from there if the demand actually materializes. Or is it 10,000 in 2011 and 50,000 in 2012? Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me because I am so impatient to get a Volt. If it’s the latter, then those who have said that the likes of us won’t be able to get one until 2013-2014 are going to be proven right.

While this thread certainly is informative, and answers a lot of questions, it also seems to raise others.

Dr. D., do you suppose that your sources would clarify the above as well?

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Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:29 am

Kaspre:

No s**t!

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Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:35 am

Mike-o-Matic:

If they are actually going to start producing them in the 1st quarter of 2010, as the post would seem to indicate, and they are going to build 10K in the 1st year of production, then why wouldn’t they have 5000+ built by November when they supposedly launch?

Which, I guess, means I’m agreeing with you. I’m certainly not trying to argue with you, I’m just casting about for hope that we’ll get some cars before we’re too old to drive them.

LJGTVWOTR!!

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Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:37 am

RSBaker:

Wait for the Fisker, which is about 1000 times more complicated than the Tesla. $80,000, and YOU are the beta tester, LOL.

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+2 Dave K. Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:39 am

When the man on the street hears about the features of the Chevy Volt he usually asks the following questions:

1>How much do they cost?
2>Where can I buy one?

The Volt will be like the new Camaro. When folks see the car. And become aware of the home garage refuel feature (30 mpg highway for the Camaro). The only decision left is choice of color.
NGMCO can manufacture all the Volt they wish to. They will sell moderately well at $39,000 with a tax refund. They will sell VERY well at $39,000 with an instant rebate of $7500.
I strongly suggest the GM liaison speak with Obama’s people about converting the tax refund to an instant rebate. Do it through GMAC financing if need be.This is a repeat comment as it is crucial to maximum efficiency sales for the Voltec family of vehicles.

=D~

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+1 Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:45 am

Dr.D.:

Thanks for the very informative post. Alas, for every answer, 2 more questions are created, LOL. I guess that’s why the blog lives on and goes from strength to strength.

Great photo, BTW. I find it very encouraging to see the volts coming down the line, even if it isn’t the full on deal yet.

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Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:50 am

Nick D & Kaspre:

I sure hope so!

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+2 Dave K. Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:51 am

The Volt looks good in white. Do they dare show the Volt in red?

Hey, where’s Laura?

=D~

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CorvetteGuy Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:51 am

2000 to 3000 in the 2010 calendar year PLUS another 7000 to 8000 in the 2011 calendar year? — Making a total of 10,000 units TOTAL for the 2011 “Model Year”…? Is this correct?

I keep hearing only 10,000 in the first model year. I hope it is more… and after that great debate is settled, let’s move on to how many of those are headed for Southern California!

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+7 tom Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:55 am

Why do people put -1’s on posts like mine above? I was just asking questions, not saying anything controversial.

The following is a comment, feel free to put a minus on this.

I still like the old format for this website better where all posts were in chronological order. Much easier to read all the posts. It wasn’t that hard to say ‘responding to #nn above’.

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CorvetteGuy Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:55 am

I don’t think so. I think he means 3000 produced in November and December of 2010 — equals 1500 per month.

We can only hope that once the battery production is up to full speed, then they will build 1500 VOLT’s per WEEK, which is how fast they are building Camaros… and production of those took a while to get up to that level.

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MikeD Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:56 am

$40,000 will not go to GM. The dealer has a cut, as does the distribution network, etc. It’s a guess as to what GM will actually get from the sale of each car, and my guess is closer to $34,000 each. Still, that represents a good amount of $$ coming in. I hope they see at least an order of magnitude increase in 2011.

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CorvetteGuy Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:59 am

Color decision is made! Victory Red.

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kdawg Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 11:00 am

What about the Flint engine plant? Will these PPV’s be using the European engines, or ones from Flint? What about the engines for the first 3000 saleable Volts? When does the GM battery plant become fully operational and when will the LG cells be sourced by its Michigan plant? Would be nice to have a graphical timeline. I like visuals… sort of like AF’s countdown clock.

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+4 CorvetteGuy Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 11:02 am

So, would any of you consider a PPV “Demo Vehicle” if it had 20,000 miles on it, but the price was $10,000 OFF MSRP?

Or, would you take what’s behind door number two?

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Rashiid Amul Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 11:11 am

Don’t take it personally. I put a +1 on it for you.

I like to old format also.

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Herm Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 11:19 am

The engines are from Korea, until GM gets the Flint plant going.

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+1 tom Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 11:41 am

I certainly understand you can’t go from 10 per month to 20,000 per month overnight.

What I’m looking for is the level of commitment they have to this car. It isn’t just another flavor of a malibu here. The more they make the more the price will come down and make it affordable so they will have demand to make more.

As I see it there are 2 ways they can go.
1) Keep ramping up production and drive down the price of this generation.
2) Keep the volume low for first year or two, and then jump to Gen 2 and try to build volumes.

I just don’t see how GM can survive with too conservative of an approach. A take it slow with the volt means the leaf and other companies will surge ahead with economies of scale advantages.

They need to make this car profitable and that can only happen with large volumes.

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Edgar Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 11:55 am

I haven’t seen this, although someone may have addressed it already, but what are the anticipated (or known) production volumes for 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014?

I ask this because North American ANNUAL auto sales (domestic and foreign manufacturers) is somewhere between 11 to 15 MILLION autos (all types).

I think it was in 2007 that auto sales reached 17 million autos.

Assuming all automotive manufacturers begin producing some type of EV, and assuming that a meager 20% of all vehicles produced are EVs, then this would require EACH manufacturer to produce an estimated 500,000 EVs per year.

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CorvetteGuy Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

“Cardinal Red Metallic” is a new color used on the 2010 Equinox. It looks fantastic, and it would look even better on the VOLT.

Would somebody at the factory PLEASE find a couple gallons of this color and do one up for some press photos???!!!

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+7 statik Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:06 pm

What we have at the moment is Mr. Posawatz saying the goal is to build 2,000-3,000 saleable Volts in 2010…all of which will be classed as a 2011 model. Best guess as to if/how many from that goal actually reach customers in 2010, and or how many to fleet/dealer demos. The rest, another likely 7-8 thousand would fill out the year 2011. There will be no ‘2010 Chevy Volt’

There is actually a media release today that alludes to some of that information, and describes the ‘Flint Area’ tool up.

————————-

FLINT, Mich. – General Motors Company is investing more than $230 million in four GM plants in the greater Flint area to support the production of the fuel-efficient 2011 Chevrolet Cruze and Volt, representing more than 500 jobs.

The fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cruze, which is scheduled to launch next spring, is Chevy’s all-new global compact car. The Cruze will be powered by a 1.4L four-cylinder turbo engine and is expected to deliver better fuel economy than the current leader in the segment, the Chevrolet Cobalt XFE, rated at 37 mpg highway.

The Chevrolet Volt, which is scheduled to start production in late 2010 as a 2011 model, will be GM’s first extended-range electric vehicle.

* Flint Engine South: General Motors Company is investing $202 million in Flint Engine South to renovate the former I5/I6 manufacturing operations for production of a 1.4L four-cylinder engine generator for the Chevrolet Volt and a 1.4L four-cylinder turbo engine for the Cruze. The project represents approximately 240 employees.

* Flint Metal Center: General Motors Company is investing $1.7 million in Flint Metal Center to refurbish press lines that will produce sheet metal stampings for the Volt, representing 30 jobs.

*Flint Tool and Die: This facility designed dies for the Chevrolet Cruze and is responsible for the construction and tryout of stamping die sets for the Volt program. All dies for the Chevy Volt were engineered at Flint Tool & Die. Approximately 50 percent of dies for the Volt were designed at this facility.

* Grand Blanc Weld Tool Center: General Motors Company is investing approximately $30 million in this facility to build the robotic weld tool cells that will assemble the Volt body at the Volt assembly plant. Approximately 250 employees are working on this project, including 60 who are installing the weld tool equipment at the assembly plant. Grand Blanc Weld Tool Center also built the robotic weld tool cells for the body shop to assemble the Chevrolet Cruze at Lordstown (Ohio) Assembly.

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=57378

/hope that helps

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DonC Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

I assumed he meant “yet” as simply describing a process in which, at some point in time, all the tooling was complete and the cars coming off the line would be for sale, not that the cars would not be sold initially but would be sold at some later point in time.

IOW he’s thinking of a project time line and at some point on the line the cars aren’t saleable “yet” but later in the project time line they are. I’ve noticed that when the GM folks talk about production they’re invariably thinking about a time line, and this is reflected in the way they talk about production plans.

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+1 tom Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

Maybe we’ll see the day when 20 million BEVs/ EREVs are built in our country, sedans, SUVs, Vans, pickups etc.

But first we need to get past the level of 1 million BEV/EREVs per year. Once we do that the economies of scale and investment in battery technology should put us well on the road to electifying all personal mobility.

This can happen pretty quickly if enough players commit in a big way. Nissan alone will be making 150-200k cars a year in Tennessee in 2012. Hopefully GM will have a higher level of commitment. I include the Plug In Prius even with only a 12.3 AER.

So the million per year, or 80K per month sold in the country, hopefully will happen sometime during 2012. Hopefully the payoff will be for much lower prices shortly after that.

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+1 RB Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

Noel –> I think what we heard was 10,000 in the first model year (2011) and then 60,000 in the 2nd model year (2012 models). No doubt all these numbers are subject to change, but building a few thousand 2011-model cars in 2010 seems consistent (not to mention a huge achievement also).

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DonC Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

Great point. If demand is there then the numbers will most certainly follow given that we’ll have a number of choices.

It does seem like something in the ether has changed. People are ready for EVs, though perhaps not ready for the price. That will be the challenge.

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Tex-Arl Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

This indicates the PreProduction build will be in the 100 area. That is more in line with previous practice.

He is saying also that after the PreProduction build they will be moving into a slow build acceleration plan of production vehicles. The key to how many are built is the planned line rate and the length of the acceleration plan.

I see that there will be several thousand available at official announcement date. Sept-Oct-Nov?????????

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RB Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

Noel –> I interpret the posts as saying that production for testing purposes will begin in the 1st quarter. Remember that might be as late as the latter part of March. Then, once corrections are in place in the heavy equipment, which takes a while, they will start with the production cars.

No specific date is given for the first production vehicles, and it may be subject to a lot of contingencies, so that start may be late June, or with just a few delays (really it only takes one big item) easily could be July or August Then it will take a while to produce a large enough number of Volts to have some for sale in November or December After all, if the initial output was 3000 and the initial number of dealers was 500 (out of 5000), that is only 6 cars per dealer by the end of the year. Things are going to take a while.

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Tex-Arl Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

Have you counted the six???? design concept vehicles??? They can be considered Prototypes.

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Gary Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

Or Australia?

http://gm-volt.com/2009/01/28/voltcruze-engine-plant-delay-continues/

Who knows.

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+1 DonC Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

There are calendar years and model years. I’m thinking the 10K number refers to the first model year, which would span two calendar years, and the 60K number would be for the second model year, which would likewise span two calendar years.

For example, for the 2011 model year, GM would produce 10K cars during the last half of 2010 and the first half of 2011. Then it would produce 60K cars for the 2012 model year, and these cars would come off the line in the last half of 2011 and the first part of 2012.

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RB Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:22 pm

It will be 1 for Lyle in NY, 535 for Washington DC, 1 for Sacramento and 9,463 for Southern California. Everyone else waits for next year. (smile)

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RB Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

One really cannot know these numbers until one has some data about how many customers are willing to buy one, as distinct from talk about buying one. No one knows.

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+1 Herm Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

“NGMCO can manufacture all the Volt they wish to. They will sell moderately well at $39,000 with a tax refund. They will sell VERY well at $39,000 with an instant rebate of $7500.”

its not a tax refund but a TAX CREDIT, it is a big difference.. it means that you get that money even if you did not work that year.

I dont know how well they will sell once the pent-up demand for an electric car is serviced. The competition is a Prius at a slightly lower price point and it will be a moving target as Toyota increases the size of the battery to take advantage of the Tax Credit.

Hard to beat the convenience of a car that refuels itself as you sleep, and even easier to do if they market an inductive charging pad.

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kdawg Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

I’m pretty sure the plan is to source them from Austria… but not sure for how long. If they can hurry up and get Flint running.

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Tex-Arl Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

For those of you who do not know, the “Original” Preproduction build facility was at a small building adjacent to the Flint engine plant and was managed by GMAD (General Motors Assembly Division / BOP Assembly). When GMAD started building Chevrolets and Fisher was eliminated, This was moved to Warren.

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+3 tom Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

If no one knows, how come Nissan already announced they will make 150,000 Leaf’s in Tennessee in 2012 and 200,000 batteries?

I’m sure GM has a plan they just aren’t in a hurry to let us know.

But my point is their plan needs to be aggressive, because if they take it slow, they’ll go out of business.

IF they go slow, they’ll lose out to the competition that has a better balance sheet. They’ll end up losing money and going out of business.

If they go for it, they have a chance to be the leader in what is sure to be a very fast growing market. Of course they still have to deliver a good product.

Which will it be?

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Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:34 pm

RB & DonC:

Yeah, I’m sure you’re right. Patience Noel, patience.

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+1 Tex-Arl Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:34 pm

Don’t confuse calendar years with model years. Model years typically run to June-July depending on demand.

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Herm Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

7-8000 2011 Chevy Volts made in 2011, then production of the 2012 starts..

So what will be the actual build capability of the Volt assembly plant?

“The Cruze will be powered by a 1.4L four-cylinder turbo engine and is expected to deliver better fuel economy than the current leader in the segment, the Chevrolet Cobalt XFE, rated at 37 mpg highway.”

The Cobalt is a leader in the segment?

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Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

Dave K:

Good question. An extremely bright and obviously well educated woman, who adds a lot of value to the blog, IMHO.

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Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

Bring it on boys, LOL.

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CDAVIS Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

______________________________________________________
Not Directly Related…

Article:
FOX Drives the Chevy Volt…Courtesy of Mazda?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,564305,00.html

I found two items of interest in the above article:

1) The WOW declaration by the author that “The Chevrolet Volt may be the most famous car in the world…”.

2) The statement “Throw in a battery with a larger capacity and Mazda may just have a potential competitor for the Chevy Volt on its hands”.
______________________________________________________

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+2 Streetlight Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

How many units does GM need to sell in 2010 to be relevant in the market place … 10,000? 20,000? What if VOLT sales catches fire – GM certainly wants to be prepared. At this point GM has no slack, it needs to be pushing the marketing envelope with follow-up achievements to the Pikes Peak climb. No more inane pronouncements like the 230 mpg PR debacle. First off, GM now has lots of VOLTS to play with. How about souping up a couple concept VOLTS for a 1000 mile range drive. That’s the stuff that’ll wet buyers’ appetites. For other posters; I’m not suggesting a design change, only to restore GM pride and engage buyers imaginations.

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LRGVProVolt Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

I believe that GM usually sends the labor force on a month vacation while they retool their assembly plants. Anyone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong or confirm my comment.

On the numbers, they should be able to produce 2,000 – 3,000 vehicles in 2010 easily or even 10,000 considering the schedule they are now following. I agree this additional information explains a lot but leaves us with all these additional questions.

For example:

What is the maximum monthly production of the assembly plant?

With the Battery Pack Plant able to produce 75,000 packs, the yearly production of Volts would be limited to that number. Will GM be building one or more additional battery pack assembly plants or will they farm this additional demand for packs out to LG Chem or someone else? Nissan is looking at 200,000 Leaf BEVs per year!

What does GM look for production number per year in a best case scenario?

I don’t think they are looking at just 7,000 to 8,000 vehicles in the first part of 2011 before they go on vacation to switch tooling and get ready for the 2012 model year. That would mean only +1,000 vehicles at month from January to July. Too many people I talk to now give that bewildered look when I mention the GM “electric” car. Granted, I don’t get to see many new people each day so that might not be saying much.The way I see it, when the Volts wheels start hitting the pavement in larger numbers, the demand will materialize and we will see many more Want-a-Volt customers than the +50,000 on the current GM-Volt Want List. Lyle, it would be a good question to GM exec’s to ask what they plan to do if people start showing up at dealers showrooms in droves?

Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.

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jeffhre Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

Austria?

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DaveP Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

Ah, yeah. That makes more sense. You have a line, producing cars. Initially, the process isn’t finalized and the cars aren’t saleable. After adjustments to the process, at some point you go, “OK! the rest are saleable!”
It may not be true, but conceptually I think it kind of helps to imagine the last of the non saleable units rolling off the line as the first of the saleable units are starting on it. At some point the last “tweak” is made and everything else after that tweak is a finished product.

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RB Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

tom –> Nissan is just talking. It is however reasonable that they talk about a higher number as the projected price is lower. But the world turns in strange ways, so maybe the Volt will have a higher demand.

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David K (CT) Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 1:38 pm

Yes, Austria…that’s what I remember as well.

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Dave K. Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

Good point Tom. This is an opportunity for NGMCO to relay their scale of commitment to producing electric drive vehicles.

What will the future of two years ahead look like? Will the current citizen consider many vendors for electric vehicles? Or will it be obvious and mainstream that “electric vehicle” is synonymous with NGMCO?

=D~

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Dave K. Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

Okay herm. I agree that the money coming back at tax time will be called a “credit” and not a “refund”. I see why you’re critical on this. Because although one would think that a person would need a job to afford a 40k vehicle. There may be retirees and other status which would be in need of a “credit” over a “refund”.

Still, the bottom line is to get this changed to a cash-for-being-green instant rebate program.

And don’t forget the two tone Rich Corinthian Leather.

=D~

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carcus1 Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

CDavis,

Thanks for the link.

I googled around and found a few other data points:

1. High RPM’s when in RE mode (loud)
2. Limited range
3. Undisclosed volume of Hydrogen and gasoline tanks (i.e. they don’t give you enough data to figure out mpg in gasoline or equivalent mpg when running hydrogen)

(any of this sound familiar?)

http://blogs.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1035388_driven-mazda-premacy-hydrogen-re-hybrid

/maybe I’m premature on this one (the mazda), but I’m thinking that’s now 4 Range extender’s from 4 different manufacturers, and they are all essentially mum about the performance/efficiency in RE mode:
1. BYD F3DM
2. Fisker Karma
3. GM Volt
4. Mazda Premacy RE Hybrid

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+2 Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

jeffhre:

They have a plant up and running in Austria which produces the same engine, which is already sold in Europe.

Cheer up, it could be China, LOL.

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dorp7 Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

Right. Thanks for correcting me. The numbers are just too big to fit in my head.

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Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

tom:

Too true, alas.

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

Hi DonC,

I agree that price matters, look at the announced Renault price policy : the price of an EV must be lower than its ICE equivalent and its usage cost also. Source (in French, sorry ) : http://www.renault-ze.com/befr/ and then click on “Les engagements”)

I think that GM should (must) think of a specific anc new economic model for its E-… vehicles.

Regards,
JC NPNS

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+2 statik Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

The line capacity at DHAM is approximately 60,000 units per, in traditional usuage. At the moment there is only plans to tool up one line for the Volt.

One assumes that a 10+ billion DoE grant to build Voltec vehicles would increase the capacity to build more/similar vehicles at DHAM (like Delta MPV7 based-Buick CUV possibly, and Converj) and/or other locations worldwide. (One thinks of Vauxhall’s Ellesmere Port plant on Merseyside as a example, they are seemingly constantly lobbying for it for Euro supply/Ampera (w/state support)).

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steel Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

Yes, due to the funny way the EPA classifies cars,

The Honda Insight is a “Compact Car”
The Toyota Prius is a “Midsize Car”
The VW Jetta TDI is a “Compact Car”, the Wagon trim is a “Midsize Car”

wheras

The Cobalt is a “Subcompact Car”

Yet there is only around ~7% difference in the interior passenger volume across all four models, with the Insight the smallest of the group (The Prius is the largest by a smidge over the Jetta).

How does this occur? Well, #1, Luggage Volume is taken into consideration, making the Prius and Insight significantly larger.
#2. The Cobalt Coupes. Across a model line, all trims with more than 2 seats get averaged in…

GM managed to create a very large “Subcompact” Car (I think the average would come in at around 98-99 Cubic Feet. The Sedan version is 101 which puts it in Compact Car class). EPA really ought to drop the nonsense and make Coupe models seperate and rate all hatchback type cars as stationwagons

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Gsned57 Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

That response was way too informative not to be the real Statik. Are you posting because you know Tag is on vaca Been enjoying your guest articles

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+1 steel Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

Just for a bit of reference, typically it around 1-2 months from start of production of actual cars to delivery of said cars.

Looking at recent “all-new” launches by Chevy, I would expect production of 2011 Model Year to start around September to October 2010. Isn’t GM anniversary September 19th? I could see that being the target for the “completation” of VIN #1.

Keeping in mind that many “next year models” now arrive at Dealerships in the Summer, Looks like GM will ramp up to be producing 3,000-4,000 units within 6-12 months of initial production. In other words, “everything looks normal” for a car with no sales history and potentially sketchy market demand.

For a side note, in 2008, there were only ~50,000 Mini’s sold in the US. The Volt has a definate edge in enviro-credit, but the Volt and Mini are both premium market small hatchbacks.

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statik Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

Yeah, it is me. I had a little info, and Lyle suggested it would have some value in today’s thread. /tada

Thanks for the kind words G.

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+1 old man Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

I think they all have good mpg in CS mode and don’t want the competition to know how good.

Now how is that for being TAG GRADE OF OPTOMISTIC?

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frankyB Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

Always amuse me when some “serious” journalist says: “The Chevrolet Volt may be the most famous car in the world, but, since it doesn’t quite exist yet, we still know very little about it.”

I wonder where he was in the last year or so. And if you don’t know, may be should refrain from making comments.

And then he goes on and compare something totaly different to the Volt.

I don’t want to sound like a “fan boy”, but this such a bad article.

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Herm Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

Nissan is just talking, but they also got a LOT of fed money to build those EV in Tn.. I think it was $1.6 billion

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carcus1 Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

woops, ..

Should’ve read CDavis’ source article, I guess.
____________
“A 25 liter gasoline tank provides the vehicle with an additional 240 mile range, and the ability to refuel at any gasoline station.”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,564305,00.html
__________________

That works out to 36.4 mpg.

/Unfortunately, if that’s on the Japanese 10-15 cycle then that would likely mean somewhere in the low 20’s for U.S. city/hwy combined.

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Herm Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 4:08 pm

Details on BYD F3DM are very scant, but since it uses a tiny 1 liter 3 cylinder ICE then we can expect the mileage to be good once the battery is depleted.. note that they have a direct drive coupling mode in addition to a serial mode.. a unique architecture.

The Karma is a high performance sedan, high mileage in CS mode is not expected.

GM is being coy about the Volts CS mode mileage.. probably for marketing reasons, I think it will be ok.

The Mazda uses hydrogen.. you dont even want to know how expensive that will be.

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CorvetteGuy Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

Tease!

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Herm Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 4:17 pm

You realize the Volt does not exist either?.. all we have are about 80 hand built prototypes running around. Once they start coming out of the assembly line AND go on sale then we can start firming up details and specs on the Volt.. so far all we know is what GM tells us.

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StevePA Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 4:33 pm

Herm – IMO – agree some prospective buyers would consider the Prius to be competiton for the Volt…somewhat green, likely lower cost.
I suspect for many others Prius won’t get a second look – still mostly a petrol burner, and will be seen as a distant second in the appearance department for most of those to whom style matters.

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statik Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 4:34 pm

Addendum (and timely at that): Scratch Ellesmere Port off the short list for Gen 1. Apparently Magna doesn’t like the Ampera so much and has decided to take a pass for now.
—————-

“The new Canadian owner of Vauxhall has decided not to build a revolutionary electric hybrid car at the company’s Ellesmere Port factory, casting doubt over the future of the ultra-modern plant.
The decision by Magna not to invest hundreds of millions of pounds in the Ampera, which is capable of 176 mpg, is a major blow to the Cheshire plant and will undermine its long-term future.

Instead, the first mass-produced General Motors hybrid will be built from next year in Detroit and will be on sale in the UK from 2011. It is understood that a secondgeneration Ampera may be considered for production in the UK, but that would not be until 2015 or 2016.
According to a top-level source at General Motors, it has been decided that the level of demand for the new Ampera, called the Volt in the US, would not justify such a large investment in the UK. And it has also been decided that production costs in Detroit would be much lower

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1219433/Magna-snub-Vauxhall.html

/sorry JC

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Noel Park Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

Well, let’s see if I’ve got this straight. They’re looking to produce 10K Volts for the 2011 model year, which is roughly 11/10 to 11/11. Then they may produce 50K Volts for MY 2012 – 11/11 to 11/12.

So that would seem to mean that there will be a total of 60K Volts available for sale between now and November of 2012. That is 3 years from now, in case anybody didn’t notice. Which tells me that very few of us are likely to get our hands on a Volt for at least 2 1/2 years, and more likely 3. It’s gonna be pretty tough to keep the buzz going that long, IMHO.

Actually, statik says that the capacity of DHAM is 60K units/year, but that they are only tooling up one line. Does that mean maximum production is only 30K units/year? Well never mind.

On the other hand, I guess that, even if a commercial production Volt is never sold, it has probably paid for itself already from GM’s point of view. I truly believe that the green halo of the Volt provided a lot of the cover for the Feds to bail out GM. So, if the Volt helped them to get their hands on $60 BILLION, it has actually done enough already for GM to justify the whole exercise.

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carcus1 Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

Nobody’s getting any bacon. But you can go on line and listen to the sizzle…. for a little while.

Now, . .. . . wasn’t that satisfying?

Oh, and that will be 60 Billion please, it’s due april 15th, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013,2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, . . . .. . … . ..

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DonC Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

The most interesting statement is that the Gen II Ampera won’t be available until 2015 or 2016. That’s disappointing if true. I was hoping that we’d see Gen II 2014. Until we get to Gen II the price will remain high, which means that sales will be lower than we’d see at a lower price point.

I can see why Magna would pass. There will be a lot on its plate and until Gen II when the design is price optimized I can’t see the Ampera as a big seller, though I do like its front end.

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+1 DonC Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 5:25 pm

Dave, I give your proposal +5. I don’t see any reason to tie the sale to the a tax return. Moreover, we’ve gone through the process with Cash for Clunkers so we know it works.

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DonC Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

Tom, as Rashiid says, the vote thing can get weird and is frequently not understandable. Unless of course you’re getting -20. Then you’ve probably said something very negative and sort of off the wall. But even then It could be right, eh?

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+1 DonC Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 5:34 pm

Noel, the reality is that there is no such thing as a “car shortage other than in the very short term — like the first year. Production capacity always outstrips demand and, consequently, as Jean-Charles Jacquemin pointed out above, if demand is there then the cars will roll off the line.

60K units over two years doesn’t strike me as unreasonable estimate for a $40+K car. If the Volt would be $30K then the numbers would need to be much higher.

In this regard, Ford is planning to sell only 5k-10K Focus EVs in 2011, mostly because of the price. Basically there are only so many early adopters. As Ford has said:

“There are early adopters willing to pay quite a bit more than they will ever get back,” she said. “But there are only a small number of them. As battery costs go down and there is greater use and awareness of electric cars, we will be able to target a good-sized market.”

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/ford-takes-another-step-in-globalizing-electric-car-plans/

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+2 coffeetime Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 5:59 pm

Let’s cut to the chase: When is Chevy going to let Lyle (or any other journalist for that matter) test-drive a pre-production Volt in extended range mode?????!!!!!

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

Sure….I’d take one of those.

Take Care. TED

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

Magna will also be busy with the Ford Focus EV project. They are partnering with ford on this and is expected in 2012.

Take Care,

TED

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 6:49 pm

White for me… Red would never hold up in Florida… The red fades.
Take Care,

TED

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 6:57 pm

You forgot Miami.

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statik Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

Noel Park said, “Actually, statik says that the capacity of DHAM is 60K units/year, but that they are only tooling up one line. Does that mean maximum production is only 30K units/year? Well never mind.”

Sorry, I think you misinterpreted what I said previously,

“The line capacity at DHAM is approximately 60,000 units per, in traditional usage. At the moment there is only plans to tool up one line for the Volt. ”
—–
DHAM ‘can’ run 3 lines (although it has not done so in ages), it current only runs 1 line, which is the DTS and Lucerne. That DTS/Lucerne line is going to be taken offline in the new year and switched over to the Volt.

The capacity for 1 line there is aproximately 60,000. If the plant was fully utilized it ‘could’ put out 180,000-ish.

(Quote)
Nelson Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 7:03 pm

Might I suggest making color choices available to the public as soon as possible? I’d like mine with the original concept color. Silvery-Blue please.

NPNS!

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JeffB Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 7:07 pm

Will it come with the gray body panels, black fascia, and a roll of duct tape to secure the glove box? Heck it might become a collector’s item with the slight flaws.

The thought of 20,000 miles on the odometer makes me wonder about the resale value of the Volt. Will it perform in this area of true owner cost?

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JeffB Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 7:14 pm

Could Flint be part of a Phoenix (Old GM -> New GM) rising from the ashes story?

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LeoK Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 7:30 pm

Statik,

Any coincidence that GM is spending $230 million on the 230 mpg VOLT?

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Dave G Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 7:47 pm

Just to put some sense of scale behind these numbers, assuming they work 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year:

GM says they will build 10,000 Volts in the first year. That corresponds to 1 Volt every 12 minutes.

In the second year, GM says they will build 60,000 Volts. That’s a Volt every 2 minutes.

This is what differentiates the Volt from Fisker, Aptera, Tesla, etc.. The Volt is aimed at mass production.

Hopefully this EREV thing will catch on, and GM will add more shifts, more assembly lines, and more models (e.g. Converj, Orlando, etc.), so that within 5 or 6 years they can get up to 500,000 EREVs a year. At that kind of volume, EREVs will become a lot more affordable.

(Quote)
-1 Last pre-production Volt comes off the assembly line » Hybrid News Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
-1 Last pre-production Volt comes off the assembly line | The Ultimate Automobile News Site Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Tex-Arl Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

Nick D

I think that they will build approx 3,000 2010 models during the April-June time frame.

Then the “Normal” model year production for the 2011 model will start in August 2010 and produce 10,000 by the summer of 2011.

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Mike-o-Matic Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

Man… wouldn’t that be somethin’? 180k Volts per year would be suh-weeeet. Might actually see a few of ‘em around here, if that happened (near Milwaukee, Wisconsin).

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Tex-Arl Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:10 pm

You can build 2011 model year cars in March 2010 and continue until 2012 model changeover in August 2011.

You can start a model year early and then not start a new model year in the traditional month of September

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koz Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

I would be very surprised if there isn’t a lot more to the Ampera production story than is being told.

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LRGVProVolt Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

I was looking for that information. Thanks statik.

Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.

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koz Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

I think 2015-2016 is Statik’s interpolation. I’m sure GM will be implementing as many of the cost saving improvements as they can as soon as they can but many will have to wait for gen2 Volt or I think more likely a seperate EREV model meant to be lower cost. If the Volt sells well, I don’t expect it’s MSRP to ever go below $32k for the Volt.

I do agree 2014 is doable for a lower cost EREV. They will have plenty of funds for developing another EREV model.

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LRGVProVolt Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

Note to question no. 1: Statik answered this in a thread above.

Thanks again Statik.

Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.

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LRGVProVolt Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:36 pm

tom,

I think its easier to follow all replies to your post under the new format. They are follow one after the other.

Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.

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Dan Petit Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

I really think that not having parallel plans and capacities to ramp up reliably would be one of those MEGA-serious mistakes based excessively on historical thinking. VERY big mistake.

Possibly, it might be perceived by some (no-one here likely it seems) that the Volt excitement might be getting “over the top” to a slight extent at least, and, that toning expectations downward somewhat toward a “worst possible production case scenario” might be a small part of what is going on.
(But I hope not).

In a nation of, what, 100 million drivers, the statistical confidence level that 50,000 of us on this want list would have significant odds at possibly having a chance to get a Volt might be a significant worry for GM to at least a slight extent.
(This may certainly be an honest and valid concern where such dedication to Volt as tirelessly posted here may contrast ultimately to not work out statistically in relationship to the total Volt marketplace for chance of purchase. That, as has been mentioned here several times in threads past).

I really think that additional opportunities for Volt production ought to be made available to GM if GM would like this.

While it is sometimes impossible to know if we could get cues that that would be desirable, then ultimately barring that, it seems that what reasoning remains would be the carefulness that is rigidly required of the entire set-up process. (It being extremely interdependent on an entire concert of well-timed “other required processes” in highly specific orders.)

But I still strongly believe that currently-perceived understandings regarding Volt demand are extremely grossly and improperly under-weighted, and inaccurately gauged by entirely outdated and invalid historical benchmarks.

This is because historical benchmarks are ALL ICE based.

I do believe that GM is doing everything it possibly can for us every second of the workday. I’ll be patient for my turn to buy.

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frankyb Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

Are they on road? Are they working? 80 prototypes, how many Tesla on road?

As far as sharing, can you give me any other car builder being as open as GM on the Volt? You want details… we got plenty, can you get any details on others current BEV/EREV being built?

It’s normal for them keep a few things to themself for competitive raisons.

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LRGVProVolt Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:08 pm

statik,

is that 60,000 per lines, one shift?

Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.

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koz Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

I am confident GM is very pleased with their 230 marketing results and will likely do a heavy marketing campaign for the combined mileage number when they feel the time is right to expose it.

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carcus1 Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:39 pm

“60K units over two years doesn’t strike me as unreasonable estimate for a $40+K car. If the Volt would be $30K then the numbers would need to be much higher.

In this regard, Ford is planning to sell only 5k-10K Focus EVs in 2011…….”
_______________

Don,

I think you and GM and Ford are going to be surprised just how hard Nissan comes at the EV market.

When this happens, Ford at least has a potential low cost EV safety valve to react with. GM does not.

BEV’s are inherently simple. Much simpler than an ICE car. Much, much simpler than a plug-in hybrid. The only thing holding the price up on a BEV is the battery, and we’re seeing many indicators that the price is going to fall rapidly as soon as all those battery plants in Japan, Korea, China, and hopefully the USA gin up in the very near future.

The sad reality is that no major auto manufacturer with market share to lose WANTS to sell you an electric car. When Nissan gets rolling with the Leaf, they’re going to HAVE to.

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koz Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

“how many Tesla on road?”

800+

Not that I disagree with your main point and would add a lot of what we know about the Volt comes from GM but not all. Lyle might have a little something to say about Herm’s comment. I do take issue with the scud missile you, frankyb, aimed at Tesla and don’t see any good coming from comments like that.

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LRGVProVolt Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

statik,

is that 60,000 per lines, one shift?

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jeffhre Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 2:33 am

Noel,

That reply was for Gary, I should have scrolled down and I would have seen kdawg’s comment.

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joe obrien Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 2:44 am

I sure would!

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Dave K. Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 3:53 am

4:32 am EDT, Wednesday October 14, 2009

SINGAPORE (AP) — Oil prices jumped above $75 a barrel Wednesday in Asia for the first time in a year on investor optimism crude demand will improve ahead of the Christmas shopping season.

Benchmark crude for November delivery was up 73 cents to $74.88 by late afternoon Singapore time in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The price reached $75.15 earlier in the day, the highest since October 2008.

The contract gained 88 cents to settle at $74.15 on Tuesday.

=D~

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Herm Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 4:46 am

“Until we get to Gen II the price will remain high, which means that sales will be lower than we’d see at a lower price point.”

GM will never lower the price of the Volt, that would be unfair to the early adopters and also kill the resale value.

They may make a higher profit on it as time goes by, and they may decide to do a lower cost model, but it wont be called a Volt.

I dont think GM will lose money at $40k, not even at the beginning.

(Quote)
Herm Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 5:01 am

Is this because the dollar is dropping in value?.. there probably will be a lot of heating oil demand in the US this winter.. global cooling and all that.

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Gsned57 Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 5:15 am

Remember the Iphone launch. I wouldn’t say companies wouldn’t lower prices because it’s unfair to early adopters. Apple ended up sending $100 checks to early adopters but that was only after a lot of really pissed apple customers complained

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+1 carcus1 Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 6:13 am

“……. global cooling and all that.”
__________

It’s climate change, Herm. CLIMATE CHANGE.

!Please try to be more PC in any future posts dealing with global warm—errr, ah, climate change!

/p.s. In a related note, I’m running a special on carbon credits this month. Please make all checks payable to Carcus1.

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koz Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 8:03 am

$40k car (not = ) iphone

(Quote)
Darius Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 8:12 am

Bad news for me. I have not expected Magna will behave in such way.

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frankyB Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 8:44 am

I was not aiming at Tesla, I was just using it as a reference point. 800 after 2 year of being in the market. People here like to critic and most see the glass half empty. They also forget that we are talking about a car that will be mass produce, not a boutique car shop. Again not to critized the boutique car shop, I’m just saying it’s just not the same.

Me, I’m amazed by the number of details we get about the building process of this car. So when a journalist goes out of his way to say that there is little be know about the Volt to justify his comments on another car that he just tried (may he was frustrated for not being invited to try the Volt), my response is, he didn’t make his homework.

Anyhow, Tesla is doing good in what they are doing.

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Noel Park Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 10:31 am

Very possible, IMHO. As I’ve said before, Carlos Ghosn is nobody’s fool, and a very hard nosed businessman. If he is willing to take this gamble, with the help of the ever generous U.S. public of course, I would bet that he has some pretty convincing market research to back him up.

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Streetlight Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 11:08 am

Now let’s see the new marketing manager coming in being convinced.

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JEC Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

My main reason for posting so seldom now, is that the new format just requires to much time to rescan. I have limited time on the site, and going back to look for new posts is very time intensive.

I wish we had the old format back. I remember most of what I read and requiring me re-read what I already read just about kills me.

Anyway, I am now just an occasional poster/reader, unless Lyle decides to either add a feature to allow each person to select the format they find most useful, or he decides to revert back to the old way (Out with the new, in with the old..)

Enough whining for one day…Have a good one!

PS: This comment in no way means I do not find this site to be very informative and full of interesting opinions and ideas.

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JEC Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 7:39 pm

I gave him another -1 just to be mean spirited… )

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Geronimo Says:
October 17th, 2009 at 10:54 am

The whole point of the $7,500 tax rebate is to support the emerging domestic-electricity fueled vehicle industry until prices come down by economies of scale.

Of COURSE they will lower the price of the Volt as production numbers climb to 60,000 then 100,000 per year.
When the actual cost comes down by $7,500 and the tax rebates go away, the final price to consumers will be the same. If the price comes down even more 5 years from now, too bad for the ‘early adopters’. They had their time as “first on the block”…

They keep making the Prius better every 4 years, they don’t worry about people that bought earlier models being envious. That’s just how it goes.

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Geronimo Says:
October 17th, 2009 at 11:03 am

I heard some low-energy-consumption parts that they developed specifically for the Volt will be used on the Chevy Cruze, also (things like windshield wipers, radio, heater, headlights, whatever).
This will allow economies of scale on these parts to be achieved much faster than Volt sales alone would accomplish, with the added benefit of giving better MPG to the Cruze.

The Chevy Cruze is a global car, being rolled out in different regions at slightly different times (already on sale in Australia, parts of Europe, parts of Asia, coming to the US in 2010). I hope Chevrolet sticks with this plan, it makes good sense.

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