Posted by Lyle in: Engineering, GM Q and A, Original GM-Volt Interviews, Production with 193 Comments
Share:
Alex Cattelan is head of the Volt propulsion engineering team. I had the chance to discuss the current state of Chevy Volt development from her perspective.
What is your role in the Volt program?
I head up the team that does all of the propulsion systems for the Volt. That includes motors, power electronics, we don’t do the battery but we work extensively with the battery team to do the integration of the battery, and the EV propulsion system
Are you only working on the Volt?
I am dedicated to the Volt and I heave a team of people that are dedicated to the Volt and I’m extremely enthusiastic about the Volt. We have segregated a team of people that are working on the Volt and the Volt only.
What are you doing now?
The specific stage of the program that we are in, for powertrain, is building on our third level of hardware which is integrated in the the vehicles. We’re doing all of our validation testing on that level of hardware; we’ve got past development where the architecture needs to be, through two generations of hardware we’ve confirmed all of our performance requirements with that architecture.
There are three major areas I’m focused on right now. Making sure that all of our hardware that has been built to date, that third level of hardware is in testing. We are validating all of our parameters for it; durability, that’s the hugest piece, the reliability, making minor fixed to areas that we’d like to improve.
The other major area that we’re focused on is the calibration of the system which is huge, because it’s a very complex system from the perspective of the torque generators we have, the engine, the motors, the power electronics. So we’re tuning all of those systems to make the vehicle fun to drive, to meet all of our efficiency requirements, our drivability requirements, noise vibration and harshness requirements, and we are now entering the phase of program where we will do all of the development for certification. So that’s fuel economy label certification, and that will continue for some months now. We’re going to test per the procedures that are being developed for this program and verify that all of our calibration is tuned in for optimization of the driving experience along with the efficiency of the vehicles. And that’s really the stage that were tuning into now.
In addition the third element that we’re working on is tuning in the manufacturing systems. So we’ve been building our production in our manufacturing plant and we’re right now preparing for what we call pre-production level hardware. That before we build saleable parts we’re going to build pre-production parts in the assembly plant so that its ready for volume. Make sure that our suppliers are prepared for that, make sure that our supplier’s tools are prepared for that and tweaked for quality, our manufacturing plant is tweaked for quality. I was just there last week and walked through all of their systems and systems development to make sure there ready for the production phase.
So those are kind of my three major areas of focus right now.
When you mention the production plant are you talking about Detroit-Hamtramck (DHAM)?
No that’s vehicle assembly plant but ahead of that we’re going to our suppliers and their manufacturing plants for individual parts and systems. And in addition, our drive unit and engine have their own manufacturing facilities that we are walking through and making sure they are ready.
Is GM building its own electric motor for the Volt?
The motor is actually supplied to us but we will be integrating that motor in our drive unit so its encased in our drive unit, we provide tooling, rotating components and all of that which is built in a manufacturing plant owned by GM. We are getting ready to do all of that manufacturing , so the housings, for example we take the castings from a supplier we do all the machining of the housings, the bearing the gearing, all of that kind of stuff.
So you get some of the parts from outside but you put them all together?
Exactly, so it’s a manufacturing step that happens and we send that drive unit and that engine to the assembly plant in DHAM for installation into the vehicle.
Have they done anything at DHAM yet to get ready?
There’s a ton of work going on at DHAM to get ready, and we’ve built our what we call our integration vehicle, and we’re towards the end of that phase. That is being built in pre production operations, however the DHAM team has been very integral in those builds. They have been overseeing the builds they’ve been doing slow builds, they’ve been identifying all issues for their production processes. They’re currently working on tooling for the body. There’s a number of things that DHAM’s doing to get engaged and ready. Because the next phase of vehicle, which is not a saleable vehicle yet, but its our next phase of product, will be built in DHAM so they are getting all of their systems tuned, the personnel trained and ready to go.
When will the first vehicle be built at DHAM?
We’re tuned towards first quarter of next year for that date.
+14
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:19 am)Great article Lyle.
I am extremely happy they are concentrating on durability and reliability. I can’t stress enough the importance of making this car “spot-on”.
I didn’t realize the electric motor was being made outside of GM. I really thought something so important would have been made internally. But I guess GM is watching carefully and making sure everything is up to par.
Thank you, Alex Cattelan for taking the time to speak with Lyle and giving us more insight into the goings on with our beloved Volt.
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:24 am)“When will the first vehicle be built at DHAM?
We’re tuned towards first quarter of next year for that date.”
That last line says it all. Great interview Lyle! Seems like things are really on track
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:25 am)Are you only working on the Volt?
I am dedicated to the Volt and I heave a team of Volt people that are dedicated to the Volt and I’m extremely enthusiastic about the Volt. We have segregated a Volt team of Volt people that are working on the Volt and the Volt only. Did I mention the Volt.
I wish he would answer the question…. Is he working on the Volt or what?
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:29 am)I added a Volt or two for emphasis.
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:36 am)Well, at least she was very clear with her answer.
+4
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:47 am)I agree. I am very excited about what GM brings to the development of EV’s. A vehicle is so much more than a battery and electric motor.
+4
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:50 am)Rashiid
Agree on all points. There seems to be huge progress but still a long way to go. Excellent interview Lyle; thank you,.
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:56 am)Rashiid:
I am not surprised that GM is purchasing the electric motor for now. I doubt they have enough real experience in that area to be ready for Nov, 2010. But I would expect that in the future they will take an existing engine plant and change it over to a motor plant…..
And is it just me, or does this woman really like the word “tuned”???
BTW: Great work Lyle!!!!
Go GM! Go GM Volt Team!!!!
NPNS
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:21 am)Sounds like the production level builds will be coming off the line by Independence Day 2010! I know the dealers won’t have them until November, but what a great opportunity to play up Oil Independence!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+6
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:25 am)I like interviews w/engineers. They speak my language
I would love if she gave even more specifics.
So what do they call the vehicle that is after the IV, but before production? Is that a pre-production vehicle? How many of those are they going to make, and is that what GM is going to give to the lucky 500 or so outsiders to drive before sales in 2010/11?
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:38 am)And is it just me, or does this woman really like the word “tuned”???
I noticed that too Jim. “We’re tuned towards first quarter of next year for that date.”
….Stay tuned, everybody —The first quarter of next year isn’t far away!!!
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:38 am)July 4th FTW!
They will need to build those 500 cars that the government wanted first. I wonder if those are pre-VIN #1?
Let’s see. By the time they get to full production, GM will have built more electric drive cars than Tesla & Fisker combined!
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:43 am)And to think that early threads here were about *IF* it would ever get built!
I hadn’t thought about the vin # issue. I have no idea how they’ll handle that. I’m spending a lot of time drooling at the thought of all those Volts coming off the assembly line.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+5
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:48 am)Even Boeing buys engines from outside. You have to keep within your core competence or lose.
It does not suprise me at all that the electric motor and traction batteries (not usual items in cars for the last 100 years) are outsourced. They didn’t do so well re-purposing lead-acid batteries for the EV1.
As they gain more experience, GM will probably bring these items closer to in-house to make sure quality and quantity are controlled. A supplier problem could cause major havoc with production.
Oct 8th, 2009 (8:01 am)Agreed,
I was just having some fun with the one paragraph. She seems to be very informative on this and it is great to here from the engineers.
Oct 8th, 2009 (8:07 am)Tag–>
Yes I am optimistic also, but the bird is still in the bush, not yet in the hand.
Oct 8th, 2009 (8:24 am)Yes, great article. Thanks Lyle!
There are supposed to be hundreds of pre-production vehicles. Someone mentioned 500 a while back, but that was before GM went backrupt, so they may scale that back a bit.
The important thing is that the Volt is going through the normal GM volume production process, and not a boutique process like they have at Tesla, Aptera, or Fisker. I heard someone say that GM will have built more electric cars than Tesla before the first Volt is ever sold.
Oct 8th, 2009 (8:36 am)RB,
Down the road from me in Amish country there is a town called “Bird in hand”. It’s near the town of Paradise. Seems like either would be a great place for VoltNation II (or a roll-out)!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (8:41 am)Rashiid Amul Says: “I didn’t realize the electric motor was being made outside of GM. I really thought something so important would have been made internally.”
————————————————————————————-
There are actually 2 electric motor/generators encased in the same housing. The main traction motor is attached to the wheels, and becomes a generator when you use the brakes. The second motor/generator is attached to the gas engine’s drive shaft. This is used to start the gas engine, and then becomes a generator mainly to supply the traction motor, and keep the battery around 30% charge, as shown here:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzenu6hr/ebay_pictures/Volt_Electrical_Block_Diagram.jpg
As for who builds the motors, it doesn’t matter right now, but once GM has sold a million EREVs, I’ll bet they start building these themselves.
Oct 8th, 2009 (8:45 am)Rashiid:
Agreed on all counts. I wanted to add that it is nice to hear that DHAM is gearing up to make these cars. The skeptics were speculating all Summer that nothing was happening there, but it appears there is.
Great interview Lyle.
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:04 am)Typically the process in GM has been—
1. Design
2. Prototype
3. Preproduction
4. Production
The present vehicle is a prototype with volume of about 80. This is a greater number than the “old days”.
The next will be Preproduction units and I had thought would number about 200. They are nonsalable and will eventually be crushed. They will be built in the assembly plant to prove the manufacturing process. Reading these comments, it appears they are going to build upwards of 500 units.
After 2-3 months of this process, the assembly plant should continue on “slow build” on a 90 to 120 day acceleration to volume.
Reading these tea leaves makes me think they will be in the dealers around Sept 1, 2010. That is different from their Nov date.
Hope it is all smooth.
+5
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:09 am)lets have the volt on the roads soon and change the way we live in this country importing less oil and making the environment
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:09 am)Tag:
That is only about 15 miles from Blue Ball, right????
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:17 am)The electric motor(s) is/are so important to the Volt, I just assumed GM would be taking the lead on them. I guess it never occurred to me they would give up that type of control. But then again, perhaps there is nothing to say they don’t have total control over the supplier.
I don’t really know for sure how these things work.
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:18 am)Agreed. IMO, these are the best articles that Lyle posts.
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:19 am)And how far is that from Intercourse?
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:24 am)heave,fixed,there.
Someone needs tuning to proofread.
Still waiting to buy an Electric car.
How many more years?.
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:25 am)Thanks for the info. I’ve wondered about the seemingly long time between the Preproduction and Production builds but assumed it was my ignorance of the process. They may be leaving more time in the schedule because the technology is new and they want some extra “wiggle room”.
The extra 300 Preproduction units should also help identify issues, and of course the decision to make those units was made much easier since the DOE is providing the funds for them.
What’s interesting to me is that BMW managed to get the Mini-Es out in a fraction of the time GM has been working on the Volt, and while there were some initial hiccups, most drivers (like Lyle) seem happy with them. AFAIK this has not been a disaster. Not saying the GM process isn’t a good one, and recognizing that the Mini was an existing body, but given the need for GM to move more quickly in bringing new product to market I wonder if there are some lessons to be learned here.
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:27 am)She seems enthusiastic about the Volt. That’s good to hear. The more like her on the team, the better IMO.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:33 am)She seemed a bit excited/anxious. It may have been her first media interview, or maybe she just had an extra cup or two of coffee.
In any event, technical people generally aren’t totally comfortable in the spotlight — that’s not what they do — but they’re also not adept at media speak, which is a refreshing change.
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:36 am)From what I know about electric motors. Any manufacturer who has experience building them and has half a brain should be able to make one that can run 300,000 miles easy. My 16 year old heat pump’s electric motor that runs for several hours a day 365 days a year is in perfect shape. The technician said it’s run the equivalent of 1,500,000 miles or something.
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:38 am)4 U, 1o
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:38 am)Sounds like the production level builds will be coming off the line by Independence Day 2010!
Yes this does sound that it may be right. So your predictions may turn out to be true, if slightly “interpreted”!
As for Paradise, I thought you were further West? True Confessions: When I was in High School we had two highway signs giving the number of miles to two places — Intercourse and Paradise. (I wonder how many signs the Department of Transportation lost each year?)
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:46 am)It’s a car thing…
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:47 am)DonC
I’m west and north of Amish Central, but there are Amish farms right here surrounding our town. Re the “signs”, they have now started selling them in gift shops – possibly to cut down on juvenile delinquent behavior (lol) (I was satisfied with a “Passing zone” sign).
I know I shouldn’t ask, but “slightly Interpreted”?
Spun a little, maybe (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:49 am)Knowing the auto industry, once the demand for the motors is assured, the motor supplier will either be bought out by the auto manufacturer or the production process will be brought in house.
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:51 am)Let’s not forget Toad Suck Arkansas!
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:51 am)Jim and Rashiid,
Yep Blue ball is there too. It’s been decades since I was down that way, but I think they are all in a line in the same highway. For “Plain folks” they have a great sense of humor. They DID stop short of a town named “Orgasm” though (g)
I suspect that Paradise will be fitting after this VERY long wait for the Volt’s release!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:52 am)Rashiid,
Lol, good one!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:59 am)Really more like two to four years.
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:12 am)***OFF TOPIC***
Where’s “nuclearboy” when we need him?
http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/10/liquid-nuclear-battery-that-could-have.html
Before jumping up and down and screaming about radiation, consider that a small nuclear battery (around the size of a deck of playing cards) could displace the tendency of many kinds of electricity storage devices to gradually lose charge as they sit. A slightly larger one (the size of a large book) could charge a pack at a greater rate than a car-top solar array (and do it 24/7 for 10 years), for whatever that’s worth. One which could completely recharge the Volt in 24 – 48 hours could be reasonably sized (though probably not reasonably priced).
Just throwing it out there as something interesting.
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:13 am)>> That last line says it all.
It’s even more impressive when you consider that “first quarter” (calendar year) is as little as three months from now, and no more than six!
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:15 am)I’m sure the local Amish would just LOVE having a couple-a-tens of thousands of wacko car enthusiast English flood their idyllic little town! Or not.
-36
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:17 am)(click to show comment)
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:20 am)Excellent! Great work Dr. D.
+8
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:20 am)It’s one of our “no-name” trolls, again.
To this negative statement, I can only offer:
“ba-a-a-ah!”
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:20 am)Mike-O,
You’re right about the traditional Amish, but the tourist industry that “plays off” the Amish would love it (I know *I* would!). Hmmmm, very quiet cars “sneaking up on” horse drawn carriages, maybe not.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-33
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:22 am)(click to show comment)
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:24 am)Lyle and the other participants in the Mini-E experiment did not purchase their vehicles. They are being leased for a set time, and will presumably be dis-assembled or otherwise disposed of afterward in diagnostic postmortems. And yes, they were hasty modifications of existing hardware, with electrics from a third party.
Whether this all leads to an actual market product, and after how long, remains to be seen.
-26
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:25 am)(click to show comment)
+9
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:27 am)Slack Johnson. Interesting name.
Do they call you that because your Johnson has too much slack and not enough of something else?
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:27 am)Ya, we got two of them.
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:29 am)I know, Fred. I was just joking with you.
I’m thinking more like 4-5 years for me. But time will tell.
+6
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:33 am)Or maybe just one with no imagination.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:34 am)I’ve been noticing this tendency for the current generation to classify nuclear power as “clean” and “green”. Whatever happened to the issues with disposing of nuclear waste from these operations? Boy oh boy, you take a nap for twenty years and everything changes!
Rumplestiltskin
+7
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:36 am)Go home and suck on your ramjet, Roger.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:41 am)what will be GM or any manufacturer’s core competency regarding EV?.. EV components with the exception of batteries can be made anywhere in the world, using low tolerances and low capital investments. Previously any auto company had to be an expert at making engines and platforms, everything else could be sourced out, including the transmission.
Does it matter anymore?
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:43 am)I’m guessing it matters from a cost control and “more profit for us” standpoint.
Why pay for someone else’s profit if you can keep it for yourself?
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:44 am)Thanks for the graphic. If it has been shown before I missed it. It definitely covers at least a thousand words of how the Volt is powered.
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:45 am)fred,
Based on what?
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-1
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:49 am)Tesla has been delivering EVs for many months. Fisker should start early next year. Nissan middle next year. Volt late next year. So looks like 2011 will be the Year of the EV when 35+ companies start offering models.
Weather the Volt gets lost in the sea of electric vehicles remains to be seen. Even if you assume the Volt is the BEST EV on the market does not mean it will sell well or even be profitable. Actually the most popular best-selling cars are almost never the best cars. So basically don’t look for the Volt do ever be the best-selling Chevy EVER. It will never happen. The Volt will be a niche vehicle its entire lifetime, only EV enthusiasts will even remember it in 10 or 15 years from now.
My hope is that some new energy invention will Change the Transportation game overnight and GM, Toyota etc will be out of business quickly as a newer more nimble companies takes over the Auto industry with true innovation. Big Oil and Big Auto have done nothing but Milk old technology for decades rather than invest in bold new game-changing tech that is on the horizon.
Oct 8th, 2009 (10:55 am)Jackson,
Great article. Amazing times we live in. Sometimes the old ways are good too – I just saw a piece describing a windup cell phone. Wind for a minute and talk for 4 minutes.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+5
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:01 am)Scooter,
“Just because” the Volt may be the best EV on the market *also* doesn’t meant that it won’t break away from the pack and be *widely* accepted. This is the very near future reality and doesn’t depend on some magical new discovery.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:32 am)hermant:
I don’t think anything changed, except the PR consultants came up with a new level of spin. The issues you raise are still there, as big and ugly as ever. It’s just that, if the PR guys chant “Clean, clean, clean.” and “Green, green, green.” long enough, people do tend to get lulled into taking a nap.
if you tell the lie often enough, people start to believe it. Ancient Roman politicians knew that, and their ancestors for many generations before them too, without a doubt.
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:33 am)“Are you only working on the Volt?”
“I am dedicated to the Volt and I heave a team of people that are dedicated to the Volt and I’m extremely enthusiastic about the Volt. We have segregated a team of people that are working on the Volt and the Volt only.”
I knew this program was rampant with segregation…
-14
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:37 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:40 am)“Best EV on the market” is very subjective. Highly dependant on the customer’s needs. Let’s pretend the ‘breakthrough’ in battery capacity does happen and all-electric cars easily get 500 miles range before a quick or overnight charge: you would still end up with a car market just like what we have today; Brands would differentiate themselves by style, performance, comfort features, gizmo features, speed, safety, and of course, price.
I’m pretty sure in the year 2020, an electric Mercedes-Benz will still be a VERY expensive car compared to a Chevrolet VOLT. Which is best is up to the buyer.
+4
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:41 am)Great point, GM is making great strides with the entire Volt program despite what a few lame ass GM haters have to say.
-12
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:44 am)(click to show comment)
-1
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:47 am)Affordability. I expect to pay a premium on an electric car and can justify it by thinking it will help slow down our war machine for oil. (save lives). But as a single income household, price will matter first, the manufacturer reputation for quality, long lasting engineering, second. I like the Volt but as GM kind of let it’s quality go for the past 20 years and the Volt is sounding overly complicated I don’t feel like taking a chance. The Leaf sounds much simpler or the Magna Focus with no generator or engine and as I will be mostly using it to commute to work I’m more inclined towards them. If there is a price difference of $6k or larger their will be no choice for me. I don’t understand why GM has to build something so complex when simple and cheaper would suffice. And what are your thoughts?
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:50 am)Blue ball?
Intercourse?
Oragsm?
Can you get a B J there?
(Ben n Jerrys – [Get your mind outta da gutter])
-11
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:58 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:59 am)fred,
My thoughts are that initially all bleeding edge tech is expensive, but somehow the good ones surmount that hurdle and economies of scale kick in to allow wider acceptance. I believe that the Volt and it’s progeny will strike a chord with the masses and be limited only by the number of vehicles available (read virtually unlimited). Just my opinion.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:59 am)Scooter, I agree with much of what you say, but the facts seem to indicate that BEV’s without a range extender will need far too many expensive batteries, or if you build a smaller battery pack, you will suffer from limited range irritations. In the near to mid-term, fast charging will be too expensive when you factor in battery life lost. But BEV’s still look good compared to hydrogen fuel cells, which will remain FAR too expensive, leak too much hydrogen, have too little infrastructure and will not be carbon friendly when you look at at EROEI. I love when fuel cell supporters say ‘we have cut the cost 50%’, but they don’t admit that the ‘engine’ still costs $400,000.
EREV’s like the Volt, and not necessarily limited to GM’s product, will use the flexibility of an approximately 16 kWh battery pack to give 30-45 mile range, depending on the size of the car. And the range extender ensures that there is no range irritation, no low speed crawls home or frantic searches for a plug in to give you another 3 or 4 miles of range. Tesla’s all electric cars are second cars, and will remain second cars because of their lack of fast recharge and their high, albeit declining, price. The crux of the matter is that if you build a BEV with sufficient range, the vast majority of buyers can’t afford it. And if you build a BEV that is sufficiently affordable, the vast majority of buyers will demand more range than the builder is able to price into the car. People demand a car that can do a road trip if it is their only vehicle because nearly everyone drives more than 250 miles in a day at least 2 or 3 times a year. In 15-20 years I fully expect BEV’s to have sufficient range and fast charge capability, but in the near term, ER-EV’s will rule the roost.
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:00 pm)I think Canadian launch should be in Dildo Newfoundland
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:00 pm)Jon,
I enjoy your wording.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+4
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:02 pm)Turbinite,
Your turbin is wound too tightly. It is affecting your brain.
Range in an EV is a real issue.
The Volt is a stop gap measure until range and rate of charge can be increased.
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:03 pm)I know that at one time there was NO WAY that a prototype or preproduction vehicle would ever be disposed to the outside world. There were too many people with good lawyers waiting to pounce.
It used to kill me to see perfectly good units being carried to the crusher with Plant Protection people observing. I believe (don’t know) GM made arrangement for some to go to schools to be torn down and built up for public school classes.
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:05 pm)Noel,
If modern nuclear reactors could be built, they’d deal with all of the old school ideas about it’s hazards – including nuclear waste and the China Syndrome. Seriously.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-8
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:11 pm)Which means there really is no Independence day for you thanks to GM’s Volt.
Thank you GM for forcing your nation to stay addicted to our plentiful bounty of black gold. Only you GM can make this happen for us and only you can falsely claim you have an electric car and have followers to keep my palace well fed.
Thank you.
+7
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:11 pm)Roger Ramjet————
When you make a comment like that, are you baseing it on fact–hate–knowledge or what.
If it is not based on facts or experience, you show your stupidity.
Quote your reason for the comment.
+4
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:13 pm)This is a troll; but for the record, the Volt’s range extender will be capable of burning E85; so pending celullosic ethanol being widely available in a few years, that’s quite a bit less “black arab tar” than it might seem.
78% of people won’t need to fire up the Volt’s engine at all for their daily commuting, mostly in urban settings, where pollution has the greatest impact. By volume, most gas is consumed in this way by the average driver. If a road trip or 3 a year is the price of cutting that out (vs the cost of some separate, expensive battery-only vehicle), I say pay it.
For real stupidity, it’s still hard to beat a simple-minded, knee-jerk (or regular jerk) troll.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:20 pm)I think the signs were available for purchase but buying one in the gift shop just didn’t have the same thrill! LOL
“Slightly interpreted” is a bit different than spin. Spin is when you cherry pick some fact or another in an effort to paint a picture which, while untrue, is consistent with your story line. “Slightly interpreted” is when you transparently move the goal line — it’s honest.
For example, a few days ago there was a lot of talk about how terrible GM sales were in September. Lots of numbers thrown around. If you look GM sold 155,679 light vehicles and Toyota sold 126,015. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/10/sep-sales-20091005.html If you wanted to spin it, and using Toyota’s sales number as a base, you could say that GM sold “25% more vehicles than Toyota” during the month. Not very illuminating but Spin never is.
My fav from yesterday was Senator’s Grassley’s reaction to the CBO scoring on the Finance Committee Health Reform Bill. The CBO report said the bill would cut the deficit, partly because of taxes on “Cadillac” health plans but mostly because it would slow the growth in Medicare spending. Grassley said that the Bill was terrible because it would spend “a trillion dollars” and “only provide 25 million people health care”. Spin spin spin. (I actually started laughing about the “only 25 million Americans” given that Iowa has a population of maybe 3 million).
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:26 pm)“You’re better off spending less money on a Prius” …
… and burning much more gas overall; unless most of your driving is long trips (which doesn’t match driving patterns for the majority of drivers).
The Prius definitely has it’s place (and we hope it stays there).
I wonder how Voltec’s costs will compare when the technology is in its fourth generation?
-6
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:28 pm)Then we shall continue to squeeze the rest of the 42% of your population and your transportation industry. We have no fear of losing you arab tar junkies.
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:28 pm)DonC,
I can live with “honest”.
Looks like the latest CBO report says the health, er I mean insurance reform bill will actually save 81 billion in the first 10 years. If, of course, Congress is willing to cut Medicare to the tune of 400+ billion (and they haven’t been willing to cut it 40 billion as recently as last term).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-1
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:29 pm)WTF?
Bro, you shudda been in post #6…..
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:30 pm)Herm
QUALITY electric motors are built to tight tolerances and as a result they last for many years under extreme stress without vibration or loss of power. This I know from many years of machine tool experience. When a customer buys a machine tool with 20 or whatever HP it is because they need that much HP. Some of these quality motors run 24 – 7 for years without failing.
That is the quality of motor all BEV and EREV vehicles will have.
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:33 pm)The Mini-E is nowhere near production ready. It’s more a proof of concept than anything else.
BMW was just trying to save face and gather some real-world info on the behavior of those cars.
You should consider this their EV-1.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:35 pm)AND NEVER GET OFF OIL!!!
+6
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:35 pm)78% + 42% = 120%.
Stupid.
I rest my case.
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:40 pm)Loboc says :
Let’s see. By the time they get to full production, GM will have built more electric drive cars than Tesla & Fisker combined!
—————————————————————————————————————
Exactly ! And we are not even counting the EV-1 cars they built and destroyed.
-8
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:45 pm)Stupid is calling the Volt a green car or worse, an EV.
Stupid is what stupid does.
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (12:46 pm)It depends on your usage of the car.
The Prius is a nice improvement of the conventional ICE car.
The Volt is a radical improvement, a true electric car with a twist, giving time to the battery technology to evolve so eventually we will use no oil at all.
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:01 pm)The tolerances and metallurgies of a high quality motor are NOWHERE close to what is required to build an ICE or auto transmission.. Modern ICE manufacturing is so refined that they barely need any break-in. A plant to build an ICE is an expensive proposition, and requires lots and lots of know-how.
Motors and inverters are very suited for mass production, but oddly enough you cant beat hand packing the windings in a motor.. but they are working on it.
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:03 pm)Sorry, Tex-Arl. I clicked the wrong box.
+1 for you.
-1
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:04 pm)The Prissy has it’s place BUT, the plugin that will have 10AER up to 63MPH will slowly creep into the Volts market at a much lower price. The next Prissy will probably come with tiered batt packs for a PHEV-10, 20, 30 at approx guess of $25,000? OK, that’s just a SWAG but it might happen. But make no mistake, Toy aint just sittin on da Pot.
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:06 pm)As a follow up to my thought yesterday (#9) on being top of the heap..here is an op-ed in the det news regarding being top of the heap.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20091008/AUTO01/910080432/1148/rss25
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:07 pm)but forest…
what if it is painted green?
and can you still get shrimp creole…or gumbo, soup, casserole, skewered, bar-b-q, stir fry…
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:09 pm)Run Forrrrest RUUUUUNNNNNNN!!!!
lol…..AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Shrimp huh…..gettin close to lunch and that sounds good right now. Dangit mitch, now look what you did, i’m hungry now.
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:11 pm)The Volt is an EV. If you don’t know that, please look up the definition.
“An electric vehicle (EV), also referred to as an electric drive vehicle, is a vehicle which uses one or more electric motors for propulsion. ”
From Wikipedia, and the Volt fits this definition.
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:16 pm)mitch, I read that big ass recall Toy did. The floor mats….
I wonder how many of the floor mats were actually OEM from Toy and how many were third party bought from other places. I’m not defending Toy but dang, my 96 Saturn had that prob so I used a high tech device called a scisor to cut the lip closest to the gas pedal put double sided tape so had no complaints.
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:17 pm)Slack Johnson Says:“…It’s gonna be many many years and the huge wave of competition will have their Volt killers out in force… You sound like some GM wack job dude.”
————————————————————————————–
First, I haven’t bought a GM car in 25 years. In fact, if it weren’t for the Volt, I wouldn’t even consider buying an American car.
Second, I would love to see some competition for the Volt, but there isn’t anything in sight. Specifically, there are no other cars with these basic features:
• at least 30 miles of all-electric range
• runs on gas or electricity
• from a major auto-maker with a large network of dealerships
• with an announced production date
So for now, GM is the only game in town. And since they have led the pack on EREV technology, they’ve earned my respect.
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:22 pm)Thanks Alex, thanks Lyle. Great interview. Is it me or could others listen to that level of detail all day long?
Seriously, no level of detail about the Volt is too much. Keep it coming, we will put on our bibs and eat it all up.
Please let us know when the first vehicles come off DHAM. That’s exciting stuff! Thanks again.
That reminds me, we need to get a countdown timer up on the website. Just about one year and counting.
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:23 pm)“… and we hope it stays there.”
Seriously, if your SWAG comes true, Prius still won’t be able to touch Voltec for performance (without a completely transformative re-design).
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:25 pm)It’s still “turbinite,” I bumped him off the name with his bad math.
-4
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:28 pm)An EV does not have a built in internal combustion engine. The Volt has a gas engine and a gas tank. It is by definition NOT an EV.
+4
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:29 pm)My company provides generators, motors, power electronics, etc. for the aerospace market (including Boeing). Granted, the automotive environment is more benign than the aerospace environment, but I can tell you that casting, machining, stamping, winding, and assembling generators that are consistently efficient and reliable is no trivial matter.
It’s not that GM *can’t* figure out how to do it, it’s just that it takes time and money to develop this core competency. With so much new technology under development for the Volt right now, I think GM is smart to mitigate their risk by finding someone who already has skills to build generators (I don’t know who they selected, but I trust they are competent.). Maybe later, when production is stabilized, GM might want to bring some more technologies in house.
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:32 pm)I’ve curious about what type of motor GM is using. Is it a permanent magnet AC or DC motor or AC induction motor?
Thanks for the info and graphic, Dave.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:34 pm)I recall Ford had a recall because foood and other stuff was getting into the belt buckle of the seat belts. Anyone remember that waaaayyy back?
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:39 pm)No. An EV is simply a vehicle propelled by an electric motor.
Where the energy comes from to drive that motor has nothing to do with it.
A BEV does not have a gas engine.
An EV can have a gas engine.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:39 pm)Rashiid Amul Says: “Do they call you that because your Johnson has too much slack and not enough of something else?
————————————————————————————
Limp Bizkit?
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:41 pm)The regenerative braking makes parallel hybrids (like the Prius) really shine for stop-and-go driving. But for primarily long trips, a diesel is a better choice.
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:42 pm)My feeling is that trolls should go back under the bridge, but the Penelope writer brings up a point that I like to make. If a Volt driver were to make very long trips 3 days a week during a year, the 40 miles electric AER for those three days would knock 6,200 gasoline miles from the drivers total for the year.
If a Volt driver took long drives every day of the year, charging each night would eliminate 14,600 miles of gasoline based driving. The Prius could not, since every mile of the Prius will be gasoline powered.
40 miles may not seem like much balanced against a long drive, however compounding it over time makes a big difference.
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:49 pm)Same here, Jack (with a ’97 SL2) but instead of cutting, I punched in some grommets at the near end and cable-tied the su’um-beotches to my seat mounts. No more sliding forward and under the pedals.
WTF ever happened to inventiveness and gumption, anyway? I didn’t go suing anybody — it never even occurred to me.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:50 pm)Yes, and I think Honda had the same issue.
Honda said It was an “American food slob” issue.
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:51 pm)shrimp is available at H(.)(.)ters!!
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:51 pm)“… I don’t understand why GM has to build something so complex when simple and cheaper would suffice.”
Suffice for who? It all depends on how you plan to use it.
For people who only want a short-range commuter vehicle, a range-limited BEV (like the Leaf) may suffice.
But for many others who take long trips once in a while, and who do not have a spare vehicle for that purpose, the complexity of the range extender is a necessity.
Once batteries improve to the point where I can get an affordable BEV with > 300 miles AER, and I can charge it in < 10 minutes at fueling stations everywhere, then I will not need the range extender any more.
Oct 8th, 2009 (1:54 pm)Thing is..when GM was top o the heap..all scrutiny was on them, not the T is..I have no slam on the T, but I mean really..Floor mats??
My wife’s Winstar hasa hook on the floor to hold em, and my 96 Lumina has little grippies. (of course I spilt a coke inthere a few years ago..it may be superglued in place now), but I have NEVER thought that a floor mat, and accessory would bethe biggest recall.
as I said yesterday…seems T is discovering that being top of the heap carries a shiny new coat with a big ole target embroidered on the back…
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (2:05 pm)Rashid..you are wasting time..
aurguing a troll is akin to being normal person running in against special olympians..you might win, but your opponents are still handicapped.. (with a note that I have many friends in special olympics and I did not mean to insult them..they are better and more gifted than trolls,)
Oct 8th, 2009 (2:13 pm)AC induction. The controller produces reversing pulses of different strengths and frequencies for desired speed and force (in essence, continuously customized AC current).
For regeneration, some power must be provided to the field coils in order to make the motor act like a generator.
This is mechanically simpler (and scales to large sizes better) than DC, but much more complex from an electronics / control standpoint.
Oct 8th, 2009 (2:33 pm)The Mini-Es are not an actual product. They’re something of an engineering experiment. If you recall, they tool out the back seat to stuff some electronics and such back there. That sort of thing’s pretty easy to do; making a salable product is much harder. In any industry–not just cars.
Which is not to say, of course, that a leaner meaner (probably smaller and newer) organization than GM couldn’t do better.
Oct 8th, 2009 (2:36 pm)Paul:
Or, why build it yourself when you can outsource it cheaper? Save the scarce resources to develop new and better products.
-6
Oct 8th, 2009 (2:58 pm)I predict GM will be going back to the US gooberment for more “Loans” as many of you call it just to go back in BK later to wipe out the debt to the US gooberment. What happened to the first loans? And your OK with that support for this company?
Burn me once, shame on you…
Burn me twice, shame on all of US…
It will be 4 years from now when they realize the Volt is a flop and sales after nerdy adopters and the rich runs dry and the rest of the America realizes that the car’s not worth the cost.
5 years of a “loss” wasn’t it for the Volt?
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (3:07 pm)One other big problem with the CBO on the bill is the taxes start next year but the benifits don’t start untill 2013 so they looked 10 years of tax but only 7 years of benifits. Look at what happens between year 10 and 20.
Not very honest!
Cut 400 B from medicare when more people will be on it. LOL Give me a break.
Not very honest!
Oct 8th, 2009 (3:11 pm)They all seem to have been brainwashed into green thinking the Volt is a pure Electric car. You are right. If it has a gas engine and a gas tank and burns the gas, it’s definitely not an Electric Vehicle.
So by their definition, I guess a large CSX Freight train is an EV as well, which means it’s clean and green.
Oct 8th, 2009 (3:14 pm)Blue ball?
Intercourse?
Oragsm?
I believe the Cities in PA are:
Blue Ball
Intercourse
Climax
All are on the same road, I refuse to drive in the other direction!
Oct 8th, 2009 (3:23 pm)Herm
It has to very close. When most people say something is round it usually is no wheres near round. Some/most think a basketball is round, it is no wheres near round. The need for round to be .0001″ or a bit more on a diameter of say 8″ requires the bearings and shaft to be even tighter.
Granted there is a LOT of tight tolerances in the manufacturing of engines and transmissions and the same is true for precision quality electric motors.
In machine tool applications it is not at all rare to have a motor running that is over 20 years old and that will not happen with loose tolerances.
Oct 8th, 2009 (3:29 pm)Yeah…they “move a ton of freight 423 miles on one gallon of fuel!”
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/can_a_freight_train_really_move_a.html
Oct 8th, 2009 (3:35 pm)Noel,
Very good point..
So soon we will be using Chinese motors then…
Oct 8th, 2009 (3:39 pm)Wait a minute here…..
We don’t need John Holmes in post # 6…………..
That was a perfectly legitimate posting discussing cities located in Pennsylvania and Newfoundland Canada!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Oct 8th, 2009 (3:41 pm)Anonymous Proxy
The Volt is not an EV?
I would love to see you drive it without its ELECTRIC motor!!!
Now do remember it CAN be driven with out its gas engine.
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (3:43 pm)Wow!
The trolls are really out in force today……
-6
Oct 8th, 2009 (4:14 pm)Give $80 billion to a Brain Dead Monkey and they could do better. Not a GM Hater just totally disgusted with Bad GM Management that has changed very little and was NOT worth bailout on the public’s dime.
Oct 8th, 2009 (4:20 pm)Jim I:
Yeah, PDNFTT has to be the best policy.
-1
Oct 8th, 2009 (4:30 pm)I don’t consider the Volt a pure EV but it is a step in the right direction. The Volt allows the Driver to determine how much non-gas driving he/she wants to do. The more electric-only driving will cause you some headaches but YOU still have CHOICE. With a pure EV you are STUCK with its built-in limitations. So EREV is the ideal stepping-stone until battery-only operation becomes practical nationwide. But I still don’t like the $40K price and do NOT think it will decrease in future generations. The battery costs will most likely decrease but the car makers will not be passing those savings onto the consumer you can be sure of that.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (4:31 pm)Turbinite = Forest Gump = AnonymousProxy = Pathetic Loser.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (4:32 pm)The troll
s areis out in force today ……FTFY
Oct 8th, 2009 (4:33 pm)You’re probably right, but it is far less amusing.
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (4:37 pm)“The battery costs will most likely decrease but the car makers will not be passing those savings onto the consumer you can be sure of that.”
How depressing it must be to live with such a dismal world-view. We know a good retired Psychologist who could maybe help you.
Tag?
-1
Oct 8th, 2009 (4:39 pm)I you to know want that Volt not electric has gas engine uses gas because not electric nohow to get food and must recharge but no electric here need propane only must use out house out back to git it done so you listen that Volt cannot hunt be no electric plug out back unless i tap that 7-11 cross my street. In sumry no volt work in alabama unless i get better electric service over river else no shower. See ya. Intanet time up. thanks have a good one you hear. Roll Tide.
Oct 8th, 2009 (4:51 pm)That’s about as absurd as traveling 230 miles on one gallon.
Oct 8th, 2009 (4:55 pm)Goob,
Off grid solar would be perfect for you especially considering that ‘Bama lattitude and the abundant sunshine you get – Amazing how the troll got out from under the bridge just long enough to underestimate the capabilities of the residents of southern climes.
Oct 8th, 2009 (5:11 pm)“When will the first vehicle be built at DHAM?
We’re tuned towards first quarter of next year for that date.”
Well, you all know that CEO, engineer and saleman never speak the same language, rigth?
I don’t know who I should believe but I still have my hope high.
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (5:30 pm)I just have this deep opinion that the value retention of Volt will be even better than my “Flying Toaster” (Element, which I really enjoy).
The reason why I think that is so, is because if the powertrain is designed such that the main components last, say 20 to 30 years, (no way to initially-know except from off-the-shelf parts-design MTBF’s (Mean Time Before Failure)) numbers that already have known lifespans.
It may be possible to extrapolate those known values into Volt Powertrain, especially if the lifespans are really “up there”.
Keeping in mind that the motor, for instance, might only need to run for an hour or so per day on average, in addition to other powertrain components, for a 20 or 30 year possible life.
If any vehicle can be demonstrated to have exceptional longevity and low maintenance costs associated with it, then the job Alex has is indeed a tremendously important one. She is, I think, another pro to be kept in mind when I believe credit is to be ascribed toward all these extremely talented and gifted GM professionals in the years to come.
It’s really nice to be able to meet all these terrific people, if even only online within these great interviews.
Great work, Alex!
+2
Oct 8th, 2009 (5:32 pm)Jackson:
It wouldn’t surprise me a bit. I take it as what my mother would call “a backhanded compliment”. This stuff only starts when somebody feels that what’s happening actually constitutes a threat to their rice bowl. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit to learn that it is some kind of a commercial PR operation at work.
Anyway, it only shows that the efforts of GM, Dr. Dennis and, in a small way, all of us, are making somebody very nervous.
+3
Oct 8th, 2009 (5:32 pm)Was it GM’s fault that Congress crushed the credit market with their obscene use/abuse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?
Don’t blame the Volt baby for the bath water.
Save the baby.
Oct 8th, 2009 (5:36 pm)http://www.chevrolet.com/malibu/
2010 Malibu MSRP: $21,825
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/malibu/2009/review.html
2009 Malibu MSRP: $21,605
Cars been out for a while, where the passed down savings for consumer cost? That’s right, none.
http://www.chevrolet.com/pages/open/default/family/cobalt.do
2009 Cobalt MSRP: $14,990
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2008-chevrolet-cobalt.htm
2008 Cobalt MSRP: $14,410
Cars been out for a while, where the passed down savings for consumer cost? That’s right, none.
These are basic cars for the common public and so far cars of this caliber show price tags going up. Not price reductions.
Why would anyone believe GM will drop the price. Price drops of the Plasma was because other manufacturers came out with their own, not because the first manufacturer bult them for less.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (5:39 pm)Thanks for the info, Jackson. AC induction motors do not rely on permanent magnets which require expensive PM material. I have been following Raser Technologies and its Symetron technology for some time. They have electrified a Hummer.
http://www.rasertech.com/media/videos/the-electric-h3
For those readers interested in electric trucks, you might want to check this website out.
That GM is using AC induction motors in the Volt is one more sign that they are on top of current technology.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (5:41 pm)Hoang:
Well I prefer to believe the engineer. And I still have my hopes high as well. In fact, this excellent interview has set my hopes as high today as they have been for some time.
So I’m saving my money, keeping my powder dry, and impatiently waiting.
LJGTVWOTR!!
Oct 8th, 2009 (5:43 pm)Jackson:
I’ll say it again, I think that they get paid by the comment. Maybe there’s a bonus, depending on how many responses they draw, LOL.
“Trolls R Us”
Oct 8th, 2009 (5:44 pm)OT:
Best idea I’ve heard in a while:
GM says they would consider selling GM Volt “gliders” to EV DIY’ers. A “glider” being a volt without a drive train so you could make it the way you want it.
THAT’s what I’M talkin ’bout, right there.
Source: ABG
/In fact, I’ll take a couple. One for me and one to make a little cha-ching off of. (as long as the glider is priced reasonably, of course)
// I’ve looked around for EV “glider” kits and there’s basically nothing out there. GM could probably make some money off this idea.
Oct 8th, 2009 (5:50 pm)YeeeeeHAWWWWW!!!!!
Let’s gitterdone boys!
I want the stripped down ghetto model….
For the right price of course.
Oh, and the Megan Fox trim
lol…
Oct 8th, 2009 (5:50 pm)Trollarama today…..sup wit dat?
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:04 pm)Captain:
Dr. Dennis’ post today was so encouraging that it scared somebody at T-word, H-word, N-word, or some such place. So they rolled out their troll(s) to try to take the edge off. They would love to strangle the Volt in its crib. JMHO.
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:12 pm)India looks like a likely source for the motors considering GMs joint venture with REVA. Back around 1970, GM usually outsourced parts from at least two sources to be sure of sufficient parts supply in case of a strike at one plant. However, in the Global market where auto manufactures are producing the same vehicles in various countries and using suppliers located close to the assembly plant such as the Japanese auto companies had been doing to cut warehousing and transportation costs of those parts that has yet to be determined. As those developing societies advance, their labor costs rise. The question remaining is how fast their labor costs approach those of the United States. It will be interesting to watch the joint venture they have entered into and see if they outsource most parts from India.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:22 pm)Touchy little basrards aint they?
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:24 pm)AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
If they got paid by the comment qty then they should get fired!!!!
Lets play “WhackATroll”……
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:25 pm)“WhackATroll”……
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:26 pm)“WhackATroll”…….
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:26 pm)Paul:
Well I hope not. I’m just saying that there are many qualified motor manufacturers in the US who are already geared up to go, so it’s questionable that GM could tool up and make them cheaper or better. But, if you look at the labels on parts from GM cars, they do come from all over the world. So alas, your point is well taken. Can anyone remember which U.S. assembled vehicle it is which has a Chinese sourced engine? I’m sure that there is/was one.
What was the name of that gear and axle outfit that went on strike some months ago and almost pushed GM over the edge? They were an independent business, but when the parts supply stopped, GM essentially shut down. So they already outsource PLENTY of parts. Don’t the manual transmissions in Corvettes and Camaros come from Tremec in Mexico?
I’m pretty sure that the Duramax diesels in GM light trucks are made by Izusu.
So maybe I’m arguing against myself here, LOL.
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:26 pm)” WhackATroll “…….
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:27 pm)“WhackATroll”..
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:28 pm)“WhackATroll”,,,,
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:28 pm)“WhackATroll”!!!!
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:32 pm)“Business is the equivalent of war.”
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:33 pm)Cars today are way past the initial cost improvement cycle. Plug-ins still have a long way to go. And remember, GM isn’t the only one making plug-ins, which means if they INSIST on not passing on cost savings then all they will be doing is losing business, since the whole industry is aiming at pushing down the costs/price of plug-ins.
+1
Oct 8th, 2009 (6:46 pm)Jackson answered my question about what type of electric motor the Volt uses: an AC induction motor. The Prius uses a permanent magnet AC motor which requires PM material that is expensive. The newly developed AC Induction motors are lighter and more powerful. Raser Technologies has an AC induction motor than has been put into an all electric Hummer that gets amazing MPG for such a behemoth.
http://www.rasertech.com/media/videos/the-electric-h3
On an off topic note: bloggers here were inquiring about cold weather reports on tested Volts. EV World had a recent article that stated:
“GM’s Rob Peterson indicated that the company will shortly be releasing its data on the Volt in cold weather testing conditions.”
http://evworld.com/currents.cfm?jid=28
The article also had some interesting facts about IC engines efficiency drop in the cold winters that Montreal experiences and generally true of all the Canadian provinces. They actually have a better climate for electric power generation than the U.S. has because of potential for overheating of transformers in the grid distribution network. The pending report from GM should really be a hold(cold) topic for all.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:02 pm)You forget that GM has gone to a flex fuel technology! Right now they are using an IC engine as the range extender. Most people here don’t believe we will see affordable hydrogen fuel cells but natural gas fuel cells could be a great source of extended power. With Congress considering the Nat Gas Act soon, and availability of natural gas from shale deposites increasing our reserves of NG, the NG fuel cell could be the next range extender for the Volt.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:06 pm)Jacko
If you think the other car companys are not trying to get their E-REV vehicles out as soon as possible then it may be time to try to pull your head out of your arse, open your eyes, and try to think logically not emotionally.
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:07 pm)Hey, I love that game.
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:09 pm)Well said, Mitch. I’m through.
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:11 pm)It is so bad today, I am starting to miss Comcastic. Sniff, sniff.
Nah, not really.
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:13 pm)Jackson, I hate to say it, but he is partially correct.
If the makers lower the cost, (which I doubt), the dealers will make it up in price gouging. My 2¢
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:14 pm)Which is EXACTLY why the car has to be SPOT-ON.
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:16 pm)lol!
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:30 pm)Tag
I’ll be very glad to see you at Volt Nation either in Paradise or Bird in Hand. I hope we both will be driving Volts to the meeting, but if not we can enjoy seeing those of others, on display.
RB
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:34 pm)RB,
From your lips to God’s ear!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:34 pm)When a manufacturing company begins production of a new product, it often has only one shift working. All the fixed costs of operating that plant are fairly constant. As GM ramps up production and gets to two shifts, those costs are prorated over greater sales. At some point, the operation becomes profitable and allows for the product to be sold for less than its starting price.
Ideally GM will realize a greater demand than just 10,000. This seems to be true even at this time a year before it will be in dealers showrooms. After looking at what will be available in the EV 2010 market, The Volt looks in MHO to be a bargan even at the projected price of 40,000 compaired to the competition. Being that 10,000 production at $40,000, and the current Want List demand of over 50,000, it seems to me that GM may very well surprise everyone and drop the price from $40K. It could be a smart move on their part. With Nissan talking about the Leaf being priced around the Honda Accord, and all the other competition, they may find this to be a wise move. And then there is talk about a greater rebate of around $10,000. WE can all hope for a lower price. Many here and on the Want List of +50,000 may not be able to afford $40,000($32,500 after rebate).
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 8th, 2009 (7:59 pm)Perhaps you should look at Two-Mode.
Consider how are those sales numbers being interpreted.
A mainstream vehicle is one with production of at least 5,000 per month.
Oct 8th, 2009 (8:07 pm)Off Topic: BANGKOK – There are plenty of needy countries at the U.N. climate talks in Bangkok…
Saudis want aid if world cuts oil dependence
OPEC: New climate pact could cost country $19 billion per year
Al Sabban (The head of the Saudi delegation Mohammad S. Al Sabban. ) accused Western nations of pursuing an agenda against oil producers, under the guise of protecting the planet.
“Many politicians in the Western world think these climate change negotiations and the new agreement will provide them with a golden opportunity to reduce their dependence on imported oil,” Al Sabban said. “That means you will transfer the burden to developing countries, especially to those highly dependent on the exploitation of oil.”
From MSNBC; no confirmation from CNN.com, Foxnews.com
Oct 8th, 2009 (8:51 pm)I admit I can’t think of a good antidote for the @#$m dealer price gouging. It’s the reason most of us here won’t see a Volt at home for at least 4 years.
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:21 pm)I just read that piece online!!!
My response?
“F” and “U”
Let them drink their damn oil!
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:30 pm)YeeeeeHAWWWWW!!!!!
………….
…………stripped down ………….
……………………………….
………………Megan Fox…
………
———————
uhhh,…. What did you say?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/2570659/Hot-Fox-strips-down-on-show.html
Oct 8th, 2009 (9:30 pm)Here’s on off topic piece almost as much fun as talking about Saudis sobbing over their soon to be turned off oil wells:
http://dvice.com/archives/2009/10/nissan-land-gli.php
Those clever guys at Nissan have even more ideas!
Oct 8th, 2009 (11:47 pm)Who built the motors and drive train for the EV-1?
I think I read somewhere it was a company in California.
Could Delco do the motor? I saw a show a while ago showing a Delco plant doing the GM hybrid vehicle controller.
GM owns 20% of Quantum Technologies, They did the Fuel Cell tanks for GM for the Fuel Cell Equinox. They did Arnold schwarzenegger’s hydrogen Hummer. They are doing the Fisker Drivetrain. Could they do the motor?
I heard on YouTube one of the GM engineers saying the EV-1 drive train was heritage for the Equinox drive train.
Oct 9th, 2009 (12:12 am)I’ve been looking at that. How much would it cost to get tickets to see it at the Tokyo Auto Show – traveling from the “IE”. Even Southern Californians might be stumped by that one!
Oct 9th, 2009 (7:29 am)Keep up the good work, Alex. You guys are almost to the finish line!
I am still very confident that the Volt powertrain is going to be the best choice for the next 20+ years as oil becomes more rare and precious. People will focus on the powertrain as the key aspect of their buying decisions, and the Volt technology will be the preferred choice.
Oct 9th, 2009 (1:46 pm)Recently there was lots of concern that China would restrict the export of Rare Earth minerals. This would supposedly kill or limit the Electrification efforts for Ground Transport. Here we can now see that such is not the case for the Volt, at all. All the lithium that the world would ever need to makes all the autos in the world Li-Ion powered, is available from mothballed mines right here in the USA. These formerly producing mines were closed when the very rich Atacama desert brines were found, but their quantities there are limited.
Toyota’s Prius on the other hand is literally a traveling mine of rare earth metals. It motor and electronics will eventually have to be re-designed, and the electronics scrapped and replaced to convert to an AC motor design.
Oct 9th, 2009 (2:13 pm)But few people drive only long trips, other than Class 8 trans-continental long haul drivers. And they do use diesels exclusively, but none that we are talking about. These Class 8 engines now have to be T2B5 dirty-clean, and that is an improvement too.
Long haul driving in cars is a much different thing. Diesels are suitable for that for a few more years only though, and there are not very many such vehicles for sale. But as they show up, they will start to meet competition form HCCI ICEs, that obtain similar fuel economy but are much, cheaper, much cleaner, while burning cheaper fuel.
Oct 9th, 2009 (2:55 pm)All the 35 Gen III+ reactors on order, are now fully passive. That means they can shut themselves down without reliance on anybody, or any outside actions, or under any stress to “do something” buy stressed operators. Natural circulation induced by thermal gradients ensure their cores won’t melt and keep them cool as the cool off, over a few days.
So they are certifiably several orders of magnitude safer than the safe ones running today.
Plus there is is an emerging solution for high level long-lived nuclear “waste” now .
Recycling saves and solves 90% of the waste problem. The rest of the World does that routinely, and no one followed the loopy Carteresque ideas of not re-cycling. No country has built a single bomb from commercial reactor waste, while thousands and on the way to tens of thousands of nuclear warheads from the Cold War are being permanently burned up in power reactors everyday.
LWR-based “Actinide Burning” removes the even numbered atomic waste isotopes, that constitute half of the “Transuranics” or long lived waste. The French do that today. The tougher to crack odd numbered atomic isotope Transuranic waste, about 1/2 of 1 % of the waste, can be “Actinide Burned” in future Fusion plants or a few Gen IV plants constructed for the purpose, or a couple of special Accelerators meant for the purpose.
The result is NO LONG LIVED waste older than 100 years before it innocuous and the definition of “innocuous” is that it equals the radioactivity of natural uranium ores. Problem solved.
(The guys who did that job of destroying lots of nuclear warheads, should have received the Nobel Peace Prize, Democrat Senator Shuman, and Republican Senator Lugar, and others including the Vice President, and their Russian equivalents)
Oct 9th, 2009 (6:31 pm)You guys are gonna get me in trouble yet!
Oct 9th, 2009 (6:33 pm)Delco? Why not? It’s all about the $$$ at the end of the day.