GM has just about finished production of 80 integration-vehicle version Chevy Volts. These are full production intent cars that are being used for extensive road testing to generate learning engineers can use to further refine the vehicle for production.
Part of that learning involves putting the car through rigorous real-world driving conditions. We have already heard the cars have performed well in the mountains of Tennessee and the heat of Death Valley.
A very storied and symbolic place to drive is Pike’s Peak. A GM engineer by the name of John Blanchard has written about and confirmed the Chevy Volt has climbed the peak.
This location is interesting because it is 14,115 feet high and has a 19 mile road going up to the summit. It represents the scenario of the car being in generator mode and requiring continuous sustained energy to climb the very long steep grade.
Blanchard confirmed “the Volt was in extended-range mode for the most part of this segment.” On the uphill portion the team was “making sure the Volt could climb the steep inclines and operate at a high altitude.”
As the picture shows, Volt made it to the top, and “climbed the mountain faster than we anticipated,” he wrote. How fast you say? Blanchard didn’t.
The team also evaluated the Volt’s downhill performance too which interestingly represents a long and continuous opportunity to regenerate energy.
“The regenerative feature produced a good amount of energy back into the battery,” said Blanchard. “We were also pleasantly surprised with the temperature of our brakes.”
Back in the summer of 2008 I speculated with the Volt’s chief engineer Andrew Farah whether the Volt (which didn’t exist then) would be limited in speed to due power limitations on Pike’s Peak.
He had said “it’s a problem if you want to do it at 90 mph, but it’s not a problem to get you to the top.”
“There are limitations to the E-REV concept,” he said. “But the people who will experience a problem with this are far and few between.”
It is great news to see that the day the Volt actually did climb Pike’s Peak has really arrived.
Source (GM)
This entry was posted on Wednesday, October 7th, 2009 at 6:26 am and is filed under Performance, Prototypes. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
+11
Oct 7th, 2009 (6:26 am)No surprise. But I would really love to know three things.
1) How fast could they get the car up to while traveling up? (just curiosity really)
2) How much energy did the regen give back during that long ride down? 1/4, 1/2? I don’t know what is possible to expect.
3) Did the EREV “limitations” show itself during the climb?
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+4
Oct 7th, 2009 (6:48 am)Lets bring on the Volt doubters. The car did not have a luggage rack on the roof and there were not 4 – 250 Lb adults in the car at the time.
On a serious note. Cool test and great story (even without the details). I wonder if this had to do with the gm-volt discussions of pikes peak about 1 year ago?
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-1
Oct 7th, 2009 (6:50 am)1,3 – Well obviously they didn’t want to answer that…
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (6:54 am)I really dont want to climb up Pikes Peak at anywhere close to 90mph, and look at all that snow!..
Not bad for a 75hp engine.
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+3
Oct 7th, 2009 (6:59 am)…“climbed the mountain faster than we anticipated,”
I would expect 55 to be the “target” MPH. And 50 to be the minimal “acceptable” MPH.
Have you ever heard of a car being put through the trials of the Volt? Dunk tank tests, 110 degree heat torture runs, and icey climbs to 14,000″ elevation,
=D~
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+8
Oct 7th, 2009 (7:08 am)Rashiid:
I have the feeling that GM is not going to release these specs, not because they are ashamed, but because there is now real competetive pressure no to tell every other manufacturer what your new car can do. Then they would have the target to beat, if only by a small amount.
I fully expect that all we will be getting until the release next November is articles like this, and I don’t blame them. After all, has any other manufacturer given out any real progress information on their electric vehicles like GM has with the Volt???
We know the Volt is real. We have a realease date. The rest will be a terrible waiting game for us……
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (7:08 am)About the snow. I’m more interested in how it performs in the snow then if it can go up the peak at 90mph. With the ground clearance the same as a corvette us Michiganders could be plowing with the Volt.
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+5
Oct 7th, 2009 (7:14 am)I’d like to know if they were able to maintain the battery at 30% SOC, or if it was slowly dipping into the “red-zone”.
I’d also like to know which mode they had it in going up and down.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (7:14 am)Rashid, very cogent questions! I would imagine that the Volt could do 60 mph easily on the first seven miles which is about 6% grade, but I am very curious as to how it did on the 12 mile upper section which averages 7%. The US interstate system tries to limit grades to 4% but some of the older interstates do have slopes that are steeper, so the Volt should be golden on any Interstate.
The regeneration percentage has been a question I have searched for over the last 2 years and I have not found any real answers, except that the best guesses are between 30% and 60% with the latter being a bit more wistful than scientific.
On the EREV limitations, parts of the slope are in excess of 7%, which is hella steep, so if they were in CS mode, I have to imagine that 70 hp didn’t get them above 50 mph or so on the straight parts. But that is part of the problem, there are corners the whole way up and how fast did the CS mode recharge the battery while the driver was cornering at lower throttle levels?
Interesting stuff that will have a great deal to do with how the production Volt is perceived next year. Even though almost no one will be climbing Pikes Peak, that is what Car & Driver will be trumpeting about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikes_Peak_International_Hill_Climb
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Oct 7th, 2009 (7:26 am)Point well taken, Jim I.
I am happy to hear it made up Pike’s Peak.
I live in CT though. I have only been up Pike’s Peak once in my life.
I suspect there is one more trip scheduled sometime in the future, but this time with the kids.
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (7:27 am)Yup. Especially with the low-resistance tires.
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-27
Oct 7th, 2009 (7:27 am)(click to show comment)
-4
Oct 7th, 2009 (7:28 am)I look forward to a fuel cell version of the Volt. Altitude has no effect on their performance.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (7:31 am)If the brakes were cold on the way down, this means “most” of the gravitational energy was recovered into the batteries instead of being turned into heat by the brake pads.. after all the Volt cannot brake using engine compression.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (7:32 am)I once owned a 150 hp car (1986 Buick Century) one of the best cars I ever owned. But on steep upgrades, it ran out of power and even floorboarded, I could not maintain speed limit speed. There is a grade off of I-15 in Utah up to the top of the plateau, and if I remember it was between 10% and 15%, the steepest road I have ever been on. My fully loaded with kids and camping gear car slowed and slowed, down to about 20 MPH. Whether it was the grade, the high altitude, or a combination, the power was inadequate. It would be nice for an independent evaluator to repeat the Pike’s peak run, and a real challenge would be to put the Volt on that road in Utah.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (7:44 am)“cold on the way down”? – Where did you read that? He said “We were also pleasantly surprised with the temperature of our brakes”. We don’t know if they had break temperature monitoring all the way down or they simply reached in to feel them once they arrived at the bottom.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (7:47 am)does anyone know what the speed limit on that road is?
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (7:49 am)if engineers were involved, you can be assured they knew the temperature to a 1/10th of a degree at ALL times.
“pleasantly surprised” means they expected the brakes to be hotter.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (7:52 am)Herm, the amount of energy recovered/regenerated is a question that I have looked into a lot, and I hope that you are right, that MOST of the energy required to push the Volt up a hill can be recovered by regen instead of wasting energy heating your disc brakes, but I am not sure that that is the case. Like I said above, I googled this subject extensively and most of the sources thought that 30-50% was about all you could expect to regenerate but that might have been regarding level accelerating and braking, which may yield lower numbers. I did see one site that thought that 60% efficiency in regen was possible, but it didn’t cite any source. I should have Favorited the various sources of regen info but I failed to do so.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (7:54 am)The Volt will slow itself down before allowing the battery to go below 30%..
This also ties in with this question: Does the Volt have an emergency limp home mode that allows the battery to go significantly below 30%?.. will it void the warranty?
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Oct 7th, 2009 (7:58 am)Not quite a Pike’s Peak climb but a home made electric drag racing — From Oregon Public Television: http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/videos/view/56-Electric-Drag-Racing
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+4
Oct 7th, 2009 (8:00 am)“Cool test and great story (even without the details).” I agree! And for convenience, here’s Blanchard’s complete blog* I’ve highlighted a couple of key points…..
“By John Blanchard, Lead Calibration Engineer, Engine Generator for the Chevrolet Volt
“I was recently part of a team that took several Chevrolet Volt pre-production vehicles to the Pikes Peak Summit House (altitude: 14,110 ft. above sea level) in Colorado. Getting to the Summit House involved driving the Volt on a partially paved, twisting 19-mile highway. It’s a great test for any vehicle.
“Our team used this trip to evaluate a number of aspects of the Volt. On the trip up, we were making sure the Volt could climb the steep inclines and operate at a high altitude. The Volt was in extended-range mode for the most part of this segment which means an engine-generator is providing the electricity to power the vehicle. This mode kicks in when the lithium-ion battery level has been depleted. On the downhill segment, we were examining how well the regenerating feature of the Volt was adding electrical energy back into the lithium-ion battery.
“We were pleased with the results on both segments. The Volt climbed the mountain faster than we anticipated and the regenerative feature produced a good amount of energy back into the battery. We were also pleasantly surprised with the temperature of our brakes. The National Park Service at Pikes Peak said it was one of the coolest temperatures on brakes that they had ever seen.
“This is just one of a litany of tests we’re putting the Volt through, so stay tuned for more. In the meantime, we took some photos of our experience and they are posted below. Enjoy!
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Oct 7th, 2009 (8:02 am)Really think it’s a big assumption? If the rate were 50 MPH would it be called “faster than we anticipated”. The statement “faster than anticipated” doesn’t promise anything. It’s a finding.
=D~
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Oct 7th, 2009 (8:08 am)Hill Climb record for Pikes Peak is a little more than 10 minutes. A mean speed of 75mph. I don’t think the Volt can do it at 90mph.
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+9
Oct 7th, 2009 (8:09 am)Remember “comfortably below $20,000.00″?
I remember under $30k but not comfortably under $20k. The $30k number was also speculative and, if you were familiar with new product development, you knew that, like most cost numbers at the beginning of a project, it was probably wildly optimistic.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (8:10 am)The car did not have a luggage rack on the roof and there were not 4 – 250 Lb adults in the car at the time.
Just think of all that extra regen!
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-3
Oct 7th, 2009 (8:10 am)Off Topic.
Toyota is doscovering that being top of the heap is like having a big ole target on you…
http://www.detnews.com/article/20091007/AUTO01/910070318/1148/rss25/Feds-probe-Toyota-Tundras
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Oct 7th, 2009 (8:17 am)Reminds me of a 1982 Jeep CJ7 I used to have. 258 CID 6 and sadly mated to an automatic transmission with a rear end geared more for economy than power. Going up many hills in PA my top end would drop to 45 mph, tranny in 2nd, the emission-controlled 258 six strangled but screaming. Let’s hope the Volt does better.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (8:24 am)I thought the engineers said it could dip into the 30% range when needed, but would take the first opportunity to trickle charge it back to 30%. There would be very little, or possibly no opportunities on the climb for a trickle charge. So i’m wondering how low it would be allowed to go in this rare situation.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (8:29 am)I believe the limitation is how fast you can recharge the batteries and how much power the motor and electronics can handle… and there is also customer comfort, a high level of regen is said to be uncomfortable.
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-4
Oct 7th, 2009 (8:29 am)Why didn’t they give out any information? Is “no news” “good news”? I mean, horse drawn carriages have made it to the top of Pike’s Peak! So what!
How fast was the ascent? Was the heater used? What was the state of charge at each mile marker? What was the state of charge when they arrived back at the bottom? Anything at all would make this report meaningfull. But nothing? Not a single tidbit? Makes me wonder what went wrong!
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (8:32 am)Not sure on the speed limit, or even if they have paved the road yet. It used to be gravel on the top 12 miles, but I think Greenpeace convinced them to pave it, not sure why. But the paving wasn’t supposed to be done until 2010 or 2011, if memory serves. So traffic probably is doing 35 to 40 mph on the top 12 miles, not 90. And I think someone pointed out that the fastest rally car set a record of 75 mph so this is not a road that welcomes high speed driving.
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (8:33 am)Van,
The grade you are referring to is called “Parleys Summit” and yes, it is a significant climb. Long haul trucks are reduced to a crawl. I have been able to take many of my cars up that grade. To me, 75 hp seems way too small to run with 180-230 hp cars. There is hope in the fact that published hp ratings for cars are usually based on the engine running at a specific RPM. Depending on the shape of the RPM/HP curve, cars produce far less than their posted amount. The volt however, has the ability to keep the IC engine in it’s sweet spot without gear ratio limitations. This could go a long way to making the car “peppy” on its limited HP.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (8:36 am)Excellent point…I want to see “real world” worse case…luggage rack on top, bike rack on trunk, trunk full of stuff, 4 large adults, and 10 years of age on the car (will have to wait for this one).
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+3
Oct 7th, 2009 (8:40 am)I’ve been wondering about those tires too as I’m in the Chicago area. Our
winters can be anything from mild to down right nasty. Low resistant tires
would seem to not fit well with snow or any icy conditions.
Just wondering…
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (8:45 am)Herm,
You are absolutely correct regarding brake rotor temperature.
There are two ways to do it. One, of course, is to shoot the rotors with an infrared thermometer calibrated to a tenth of a degree (which most all of them are), and, the other way.
The latest software download from GM into the Genisys diagnostic scan system for ABS datastream monitoring contained (for Cadillac),
“Brake Rotor Temperature”. While this might either be sensed or calculated, it’s important to know if the rotors are very hot before applying a sudden repetition of tons of force to very hot rotors so that they do not warp.
The other main question, it seem to me, up above this position in the thread, is why GM does not reveal certain things right now (or in the future).
Two parts to that answer from what I know.
1. Software.
From the various studies of everything, software vastly improves or eliminates just about all concerns, by taking tremendous advantage of other circumstances, which brings on the interrelated second reason,
2. Prematurely saying anything that is at a developmental stage is not fair to the product, since, related to a final software version, that temporary condition is not valid.
And, a “premature general misunderstanding” versus the true final merits of the product will not only be wrong, but, seized-upon by technically-dishonest or vain commentary, which always will have a dysfunctional need to hold onto that premature incorrect idea. (Yes, other OEM’s ought to be very worried if they are not on the pathway to EREV!!)
So, unanswered questions simply may not have an answer at this time, or, an answer that is at all germane in the first place.
The cool thing about abandoning the socially-entrenched idea of “miles per gallon”, is, that in a few years, instead of people thinking
“Gosh, gasoline is 5 cents a gallon less elsewhere” [a few miles in the other direction],
it will be,
“Gasoline?” “Who cares about that nasty stuff?”
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+17
Oct 7th, 2009 (8:52 am)OFF Topic
THE VOLT WHEELS ARE ON THE ROAD!!!!
I know this first hand, in the last week the Volt is everywere here in Milford, Mi. I have seen one at a time many different places from on Main street, on Hickory ridge rd near the proving grounds and even yesterday on M59. I was turning on to M59 from Hickory Ridge when in the turn around to go west on M59 I seen a volt about 5 or 6 cars in front of me. The volt pulled into traffic quickly and took off like any normal car. (not like some golfcart) I pulled out and drove over 65 mph on M59 (55speed limit) but I never could catch it. I was hopefull someone in the sub I live in was taking it home. (a lot of people work at the proving grounds in the sub I live in) But no such luck. I also was standing on Main street when a volt went by it was very cool and made not a sound.
Today I was late for work because just as I was turning into my parking lot a Volt went by and turned From Commerce Rd onto Main Street I cut through and followed it down Main street to GM Rd and back to the enterence to the proving grounds.
Everytime I see a volt it is grey with black front and back. I always give a thumbs up out the window and beep the horn when I see a volt.
What I have learned:
1 The Volt can take off faster then my V6 2003 S10 PU.
2 I get very excited everytime I see Volt.
3 The volt looks sporty low and wide unlike any othe so called “green car”
4 The volt on the road looks bigger then I expiected. (when I have seen the Cruze it did not look as big maybe the black bumpers made it look bigger)
5 I give thumps up and beep everytime I see a volt but noone else seems to notice it.
6 Some how it all seems more real when you see a Volt on the road.
Living here for many years I still like to see new cars. But I never follow them. Or go out of my way to see them. But with the Volt I Try to catch everyone I see. I have not been this excited about a new car since my dad took me to see the 67 chev Impala fastback before it came out.
If anyone in Michigan wants to see a “Volts wheels on the road” come on over to Milford they are running all over the place. Most I have see are between 7 am and 9 am and between 4 pm and 6 pm.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (9:06 am)So what was the MPG while they were in generator mode?
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:10 am)@ Bearclaw
It’s got electric drive and regenerative braking.
That means almost linear acceleration and, more importantly, almost linear deceleration available on demand, which means it’ll have much superior, safer and controlled starting and stopping in poor weather and road conditions for those who are properly trained drivers.
From personal experience, I can say that in snow performance is one the major strengths of electric drive.
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+4
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:25 am)“The National Park Service at Pikes Peak said it was one of the coolest temperatures on brakes that they had ever seen.” – John Blanchard
I’m guessing Blanchard must have stopped at a Park Service visitor’s center after driving back down, where he told them his brake temperature sensor readings. This is a seldom-mentioned side benefit of regenerative braking —minimal brake fading, wear, and/or overheating even in extremely steep mountain driving— way to go, Chevy Volt team!
PS: I’m also glad to learn they drove not just one but several Volts up Pike’s Peak!
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Oct 7th, 2009 (9:26 am)I think that most reviews of hybrids have shown that they do worse, mileage wise, in the cold. All cars do worse as it gets colder, but hybrids do significantly worse. Both the Prius and Ford Fusion Hybrid have seen their mileage numbers drop in cold weather.
I think that the Volt’s EREV will not perform as well in MN or MI winters as it will in more moderate climates. Flip side of the coin, FL or TX summers will probably cut its range a bit as well, though probably not as much as an International Falls winter.
I think, therefore, that Volts should be sold in Virginia at greatly reduced prices because we have the proper climate to allow the Volt to really show itself at its best!
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+4
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:26 am)Another official “sighting” report!
“THE VOLTS WHEELS ARE ON THE ROAD” is never off topic!
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:26 am)I’ve driven Pike’s Peak several times in the past year. I think the posted speed is 45 and while there are several places where one could drive faster there are also many tight hairpin turns where you wouldn’t want to go nearly that fast.
There are so many steep downhill grades that the park rangers often check cars’ brake temperature at the halfway point to prevent accidents.
I’m very interested in the regenerative braking. As long as the battery is below full charge you can just “ride the brakes” without any worry of overheating because the energy is being regenerated by the motor into the battery and the actual brake pads are not being used.
When the battery is full, however, what do you do? You don’t have the option of “downshifting into 1st” like a ICE car and the brake pads could overheat. Is there a brake temperature gauge standard to tell you to stop the car and let let them cool down?
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+6
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:26 am)We continue to follow the migration of the VOLT herd to the most fascinating places… Surefooted like a mountain goat, the VOLT quickly winds its way up towards the top of Pike’s Peak.
Moving in single file, the herd runs fearlessly, knowing that without a 220v plug nearby for nourishment, the Tesla will avoid such a dangerous trek.
One can only imagine the joy of riding one of these magnificent beasts to the top of the precipice.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:29 am)That’s because they use electric drive. Oh, isn’t the Volt already 100% electric drive, which is not affected by altitude? The first vehicle to the summit of Everest is likely to have electric drive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZreNS83JKM
How do think that does in snow?
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:29 am)It sounds like one set of brakes could last the lifetime of the car! Add that to the plus side when arguing Volt costing vs regular ICE …
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+4
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:33 am)“I look forward to a fuel cell version of the Volt”
You must be using binoculars.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:34 am)Maybe I’m oversimplifying things a bit, but why not put a button somewhere that says “Big Hill Coming Up!”
Push that button and the motor revs a little and cranks some more juice into the battery to keep it from depleting.
Also, I’m sure the car will have GPS, will it be smart enough to know you’re on your way to a steep road and to give the battery a little extra charge before you get there?
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Oct 7th, 2009 (9:35 am)#1 Rashiid Amul:
If GM were to answer questions like that right now, then that could become the expectation of the public. It might also give away too much info to the growing number of competitive electric cars. So such disclosures could be a big mistake.
This is just a guess, but I suspect at this stage Volts are being tested and refined. So its quite possible that the answers to those questions could improve once the engineers have their initial performance data and then get the cars back to the lab for refinements and fine tuning.
Its very cool to see the Volts at the top of Pikes Peak.
Great post Lyle!
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-1
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:37 am)For this to be a good ‘test’, they would have to compare to another $40k car (like a BMW 318i).
Giving us absolutely zero data is worse than just testing without the blog teaser. (Well not exactly zero. It *did* make it to the top of Pike’s Peak.)
Not exactly a huge feat. However, nay-sayers can no longer speculate that it can’t be done.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:38 am)… and not just on Pike’s Peak, while they’re at it.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (9:39 am)Perhaps that’s one of the “mind boggling” OnStar apps from yesterday’s article.
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+4
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:42 am)With a depleted battery (which you would most likely have starting down from such a height), that would be a lot of energy to absorb. I wonder if the theoretical downgrade required to recharge the pack to maximum allowable level really exists.
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:44 am)There’s also a limitation in that rolling resistance and aero losses are experienced in both uphill and downhill direction. Regen can’t do anything about that.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (9:45 am)The range extender is still affected by altitude, just like any other gas engine. Sorry, IANAAE (I am not an automotive engineer) so I can’t give you specifics.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (9:48 am)A simple “inclinometer” can do the same thing automatically. I think GM already had those installed on Hummer H2’s, so they should be sitting in a parts bin somewhere. Maybe it was the Toyota FJ. I can’t remember.
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+3
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:48 am)We’ve discussed cold weather nearly as much as Pike’s Peak on this site. I think it’s encouraging to see the Volt at the top of Pike’s Peak in the snow. Yes, mileage drops for all vehicles at extreme temperatures, but that’s a long way from a vehicle being disabled by those extremes.
Let’s see a BEV tackle extreme cold in an independent test … which Lyle will likely be able to provide from his Mini-E sometime this winter in NY. I expect this will be an eye-opener for the BEV favoring Volt detractors.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:49 am)“Most” would seem overly optimistic. There are too many variables, and different conditions will give different results, but at a minimum, in addition to regen inefficiencies, you need a certain amount of energy to overcome drag and frictional losses on the way down as well on the way up. Brakes are not the only thing that gets heated on the way down.
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:50 am)I hope one of the test vehicles is carrying the camera crew and they are filming all of this for future tv commercials.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (9:50 am)Hey Rashid,
you don’t have to go to Pikes Peak to test your Volt. Try Mt. Washington instead. It’s not as high, but much closer to home, and quite steep!
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Oct 7th, 2009 (9:51 am)The speed limit on Pikes Peak is 10 MPH in some sections. They say give yourself 2 hours to get from bottom to top and back down (not counting stops). 19 miles one way. I certainly hope 10 MPH is not the mark GM was shooting for.
Picture http://www.americansouthwest.net/colorado/pikes-peak/glen-cove_l.html
FYI-During the race there are some sections that the racers hit 100+ MPH.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (9:52 am)It will be a great day when members of this site can actually own Volts and report their experiences, here.
Hopefully, at least one will live near enough to Colorado to try this for him/herself …
Until then, there will always be someone who says “GM is lying,” (or withholding information), or the ever-popular “It wasn’t a fair test.”
I can hardly wait.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (9:54 am)Any data made public is useful to their competition. Other pre-production cars have way less public disclosure than Volt.
It *is* pre-production. We are a full year away from actual production line crank-up. Some data points discovered now will change due to tweaks made after real-world testing.
Suppose it ran out of power before making it to the top? Something that serious would have to be fixed before production.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:01 am)Do you put Granny Clampett’s rocker on the back too?
I think ensuring the car performs well for a long time is a big part of the work going on now.
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:03 am)I’m still waiting to hear that Road & Track and/or Car and Driver has received one of the IVers to do some testing of their own. I would prefer to see their test results in print.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:03 am)Don’t forget that the Volt pack has active cooling and internal controls; and ought to be highly resistant to regeneration-induced heating (I meant to do that
).
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:04 am)If the Volt were designed so that it could go 60 MPH on every stretch of road in America under every condition then it would be way over-designed. The maximum grade for an interstate is 6% in mountainous areas. A 10% – 15% grade is crazy. Next someone will say that they once transported carpet and the Volt should be able to go up hills at 80 MPH with rolls of carpet strapped to the roof. (I use the carpet example because a couple of years ago I saw carpet on the roof snap the axle of a Toyota pickup — carpet weighs a lot).
The Volt is a small four seat sedan best used for commuting and local driving. Let’s not stretch the performance parameters beyond the purpose for which the car is designed.
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:04 am)I figure on putting a set of “Hakka’s” for the winter and keep the super efficent rubber for summer.
http://www.nokiantires.com/tyre?id=11949&group=1.01&name=Nokian+Hakkapeliitta+R
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:09 am)MPG going up and down a 7% grade (about 30 miles) is a pretty narrow and useless data point.
The point of driving up Pikes Peak is to make sure you have enough power to do it, not, how efficiently it was done.
From wikipedia Pikes Peak International Hill Climb:
The Pikes Peak International Hill Climb (PPIHC), also known as the The Race to the Clouds, is an annual automobile and motorcycle hillclimb to the summit of Pikes Peak in Colorado, a distance of 19.99 km (12.42 miles) over 156 turns, climbing 1,439 meters (4,721 ft) from the start at Mile 7 on Pikes Peak Highway at 2,862 meters (9,390 ft) on grades averaging 7% over both gravel and paved sections.
2003: Jeri Unser broke the Electric Vehicle record with a time of 14:33.12, in the Compact Power ER3. The previous year’s electric record was set by Tim Eckert at 15:18.6 in the car’s predecessor, the ER2.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:11 am)Larry:
I think I read somewhere that, in the unlikely event that regen on a downgrade fully charges the battery, there is some kind of a gizmo to dump the excess energy into the air in the form of heat. Which is what the service brakes do, after all. Sort of like the “Jake Brake” on a big truck. It slows the rig down without frying the wheel brake linings/pads. It would make sense to me. If you have the capability, why not take advantage of it?
Can a Prius/Insight do that? Does anybody know?
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+3
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:13 am)I wish I lived in Milford.
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:14 am)Starcast:
Thanks for the very cool report. Keep ‘em coming. +1
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:14 am)I am assuming that I will still have to buy snow tires for the Volt. Yes, it may make a small difference in the AER, but I would rather give up a bit of range than have the car slide into a ditch!!!!!
On the other side, the weight and placement of the battery pack may mean that I do not have to put bags of rock salt in the trunk for weight over the rear wheels……..
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-1
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:15 am)Rashiid–
These are excellent questions. Without knowing the answers, the value of the post is knowing that somehow the Volts made it to the top, where it snows, and that is nice. Most likely they drove up there in the Volts, which is good as compared to being carried up in a trailer, although even that is not absolutely definitively stated
Anything more is pretty much pure speculation.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:15 am)ziv:
One word. “California.”
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:16 am)But a finding of what? Say Blanchard is a pessimist and only anticipated the Volt being able to climb the peak at 25 mph and they actually managed to get 30 mph. That’s “faster than anticipated”.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:18 am)I wouldn’t expect anything like that until maybe next summer.
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+3
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:19 am)Jackson:
Hubble telescope, LOL.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:23 am)CorvetteGuy:
Hey, I think you’re in the wrong business. “You’re a poet, and don’t know it.” as we used to say when we were kids. One of the few things I can remember from that long ago, LOL.
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+4
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:25 am)Dr. Dennis:
Great report! I love the photo. I swear, I don’t know how you do it.
+ 10,000, LOL.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:28 am)Never heard of the “Jake Brake,” but diesel electric locomotives use dynamic braking (drive motors act as generators, loading a resistor array, I presume).
How simple would it be for the Volt to have a big @$$ resistor with fins on it somewhere near the radiator’s cooling fan?
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:32 am)I’ve been saying this for a long time, tie the NAV system into the control software so the car ‘knows’ where it’s going.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:36 am)The Volts does not have resistors to dump the excess regen energy, GM has mentioned in the past that they only charge the battery to 80% to allow room for that extra electricity.. I always thought that was a hokey explanation.. not too many people live on top of Pikes Peak.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:40 am)Dave K-
Actually, all new cars with new platforms go through this kind of road and torture testing. It’s pretty common. It’s how all car magazines get lots of their spy photos. Usually the cars have to wear a bunch of camo, but the Volt doesn’t because everybody already knows what it looks like. Not just GM, but all the companies do this.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:48 am)It would be interesting if GM could use a special formula long duration engine oil in the Volt.. something that would last a few years if the genset did not accumulate too many hours.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:54 am)Can the Volt carry a stack of 4X8 plywood? .. I’m sure someone will ask this one seriously.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:54 am)I wonder if that 19 mile trek up the hill in CS mode will count as 19 miles run against the batt pack…..
Hmmm……
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:56 am)So if a couple of your 400lb bros sit in the back the genset would run all the time?
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (10:56 am)Jackson…
I guarantee that you have HEARD a “Jake brake”.
Think big Semi truck slowing down a hill making a very loud roaring sound… THAT is the Jake Brake ‘choking’ the engine causing the truck to slow.
—————————————————————————-
It’s really pretty simple, IF (and that is a pretty big if) the battery were to top up on a long down hill the car would simply use the conventional brakes to retain control.
Making you absolutely correct, since a brake rotor is basically a mechanical resistor/heat fin.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (10:57 am)The “Jake Brake” (named after Jacobs, one of the companies that market them) is really called a compression brake. On smaller trucks the system simply closes the exhaust pipe with a flapper valve. This in turn kills combustion and turns the engine into an air compressor and creates engine braking. Imagine switching the key off on your car as you go down hill. Better systems on larger trucks actually close the valves in the head and these systems are much more effective. Usually you can close off either groups of two or three cylinders at a time, so the driver can control how much engine braking effect they get. The down side is the noise. This is that loud exhaust blapping you hear as heavy tractor trailers are braking or descending steep hills. Sometimes in residential areas, you will see signs telling truckers not to use their Jake Brakes because of the noise.
There is no doubt that the Volt has a big resistor to waste off excess energy during regen braking down hills. The battery can only take in energy at a limited rate, the rest has to be wasted. This is why Gen 2 really needs to have ultra capacitors in conjunction with the battery. The ultra caps can soak up as much energy as the generator wants to give them at any rate, and then it can transfer the power to the battery at slower rate when you’re driving on level ground, stopped or accelerating. This will allow a much greater recapture of energy during regenerative braking.
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-1
Oct 7th, 2009 (11:03 am)As visionary as I am, it only seems that I am using binoculars …
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Oct 7th, 2009 (11:04 am)You should carry a camera and share over in the forums! Thanks for the update. It’s cool to know that the Volt is really being put through everyday driving and not just test tracks.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (11:07 am)Oh geez, why not throw an Airstream trailer behind too!
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+3
Oct 7th, 2009 (11:15 am)I live in Denver and have gone to the summit several times. NEVER would I take my Buick or Chevy. That road is murderous and the three hours to go 19 miles horrendous. This is more an accomplishment than first comes across in the post. There’s little air up there for gasoline firing going up and braking on the way down in a normal car is he_ _ on the system. I take the Cog Railroad to go up and the savings on wear and tear is well worth the $25 ticket price to the top and back.
This car is ready for prime time. Go Chevy Volt.
CHEVY VOLT: American-made, American-FUELED.
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (11:19 am)I do have camera, but I forget to use it. When someone in my Sub brings one home I will try to get a pic of it.
If I learn something new when I see some more I will post about it. But I am not going to to post 2 or 3 times a day that I just seen another Volt.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (11:22 am)I’ll take mine in bright International Orange please…
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Oct 7th, 2009 (11:25 am)That was my understanding as well.
But what I really want to know is why they didn’t start with a Volt that was completely in extended-range mode before starting the climb. That would have been the “proper” way to do this test.
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-4
Oct 7th, 2009 (11:31 am)Like 50 MPG on the ICE?
I believe the lowest price that was announced by a GM exec was mid 20’s, and that was hardly at the “beginning” of the project. As I recall, GM had already had Volt commercials on TV for quite some time.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (11:34 am)MRB
They sound like good tires for all weather. They have low roll resistance.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (11:36 am)Something to help recharge your Volt after your personal Pike’s Peak run – solar roof shingles from Dow – available next year:
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE5944NP20091006
Dow indicates they can be installed over existing asphalt shingles, and will require no additional installer expertise…
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Oct 7th, 2009 (11:37 am)I wonder at what C rate the brake regen was dumping juice back into the batt pack. We all know that going over 1C for charge is a negatice hit. 1C of ~40Ah @ 360VDC = 14.4KW
So at this rate brake regen IS a negative hit on the batt pack.
Hmmmm…..
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (11:48 am)Congrats on confirming this – I live in Seattle and we often climb the passes on the way to see relatives.
Now if they would only redesign the hood – the new hood doesn’t work for me. I t is like looking at the old Equinox model vs the new Equinox model. All of Chevy’s new desings have had th hood line disappear from the side view.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (11:54 am)Excellent point. All this research and testing would make for some great ads!
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Oct 7th, 2009 (11:56 am)GXT
I think they wanted to see what the starting of the CS mode would feel like while the car was under the stress of climbing Pikes Peak.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (12:05 pm)EVO
Great link. I had no idea!!!
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Oct 7th, 2009 (12:10 pm)Touche…
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (12:21 pm)I wonder if it can cary my trailer of MGD up to the cabins.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (12:22 pm)I use beer goggles.
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (12:31 pm)A rambling on power fade:
The important issue on the hill climb is power fade. . . if, during CS mode (ICE running) the battery “buffer zone” gets depleted there will be a substantial drop in peak power available at that point.
111 kW (149 hp) electric motor
53 kW (71 hp) generator
149 hp – 71hp = 78 hp (58kw) gap
If the “buffer zone” is 5% of the battery capacity, then that’s .05 x 16kwh = .8 kwh. That’s enough capacity to “fill in” for the missing 78hp (58 kw) for 50 seconds. (.8/58 = .0138hr, .0138 x 60 minutes = .82 minutes, .82 minutes = 50 seconds)
In other words, (assuming a 5% battery buffer zone) if you were demanding all 149 hp from the volt in CS mode, you could do that for 50 seconds and then the car would “fade away” to 71 hp.
Of course, anytime you are demanding less than 71 hp, then the generator has a chance to refill the buffer zone ,.. but I could see the volt not having enough time to catch up during some driving scenarios with only a 5% (or smaller) buffer zone. (If your were demanding an additional 39hp (1/2 of 78) for a total of 110hp, then you could run like this for 100 seconds solid or 1 minute and 40 seconds. I could see needing 110 hp for extended periods on the volt on long uphill grades, especially if high head winds were involved. It is a 3,500lbish car, after all.
It will be interesting to see how GM works this problem. I would assume it will be with a bigger buffer zone than what’s been discussed. For safety’s sake, I could see GM needing at least a 7% or even a 10% battery buffer zone. But the bigger the battery buffer zone, the more likely it will hurt battery life and mpg in CS mode.
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-3
Oct 7th, 2009 (12:31 pm)The engine produces 75 horsepower? If so it would have lost about 31 horsepower at 14100 ft. elevation. This means you would be driving a 3000+ car with 44 horsepower. Roughly like driving a loaded down tractor trailer rig.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (12:32 pm)Jackson:
Right.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (12:36 pm)Regarding this post. For me it is the final bit of news that tells me I will have no problems going across the mountains of PA on I-81 and I actually dare to hope that the regen braking will be a noticable help with the total MPG of the entire trip.
Those mountains are nothing compared to Pikes Peak but there is a lot of up and down driving which should make regen a major plus.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (12:38 pm)Herm:
Well maybe, if you started out on top of Pikes Peak with a flat battery, there’s not enough regen on the way down to max it out. It seems counter intuitive, but I suppose they’ve simulated it all.
Or how about from the top of Wolf Creek Pass to “downtown Pagosa Springs”, with apologies to C.W. McCall, good buddy.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (12:41 pm)Many commute from Park City to Salt Lake City and drive “Parleys” daily. Drivers that have the horsepower love to speed up to the top of the summit. Having Lyle drive up I-15 would be a perfect review location.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (12:42 pm)MuddyRoverRob:
Right. +1.
Isn’t that what people do in The Great White North? Have a spare set of winter wheels with snow tires?
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (12:45 pm)______________________________________________________
“Chevy Volt Climbs Pikes Peak”
———
Wow…that is indeed a very symbolic milestone for us Voltec Heads especially considering the numerous back and forth discussions on this site speculating how (or if) the Volt would perform on the infamous Pikes Peak.
Way to go Voltec Team!!!
Video to follow?
______________________________________________________
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Oct 7th, 2009 (12:46 pm)Jason:
I’ll give you a +1 for that. I’m just teasing. Nice comments on allcarselectric.com, BTW. Thanks for supporting it in its infancy.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (12:49 pm)Maybe GM should team up with Amsoil. Although it’s kind of expensive, they claim you can go 25,000 miles between charges. BUT they advise to still change it every 12 months even if you haven’t driven that far. A Volt needs the opposite features, less miles, but longer time between changes (like 3 years or so).
Volt owners would surely appreciate changing their oil once every 3 years and the brakes lasting perhaps 3 times as long as well. Going to the gas station once every 3 months or so. Far less maintenance hassles in general. No transmission to worry about maintaining or wearing out ever and replacing. Much quieter, especially at low speeds. Much smoother because of the electric motor with 100% torque all the time and no shifting.
It’s the first true luxury car.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (12:54 pm)jbfalaska:
Hey, great to se your name here. Did you happen to see the link here, yesterday or today, to the Deutschebank story about the cost of the Iraq war being $1.5 trillion? They calculate that if this cost was “internalized” into the price of gas it would add $0.54/gal. I thought of you when I saw it. I think that’s light, and that your $10 is a lot closer to the truth. Even so, it’s nice to know that influential business people are starting to think that way.
I think you’ll soon be seen as a prophet. Of course a friend once asked me, “Do you remember waht they used to do to prophets?” Too much truth can be a dangerous thing, LOL.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (12:57 pm)StevePA:
Oh yeah, that’s what I’ve been waiting for. Thanks for the cool link.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (12:59 pm)Thanks, guys! I learned something. Yes, I HAVE heard Jake Brakes (I used to live near a four-lane intersection at the bottom of a hill).
I absolutely agree with DaV8or about the ultra capacitors (or if that can’t be done for whatever reason, a small supplemental bank of something supporting high charge/discharge rates, and greater cycle life than the bulk of the LG Chem Li/Ion cells. Per unit, ultracaps or their alternatives would be more expensive, but there could be fewer of them; and they would make the cheaper Li/Ions go farther: saving money in the long run).
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:05 pm)A big congrats to VOLT. Now we’re talking. Couple things. My references (2003) to regen braking efficiency for charging report a 40%-50% range of recovery. That portion of the PP climb competition at 7% exceeds the 6% limitation of the interstate highway system. A really super confirmation of the ER concept.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (1:07 pm)Or my ex-wife!
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:09 pm)Nah. Just following up on the “wild kingdom” spotting of herds of VOLTs.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (1:12 pm)would you be willing to pay $5k for those ultracaps and the special inverter it would require?
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:21 pm)While Jim wrestles with the wild Volt herd, you’re enjoying a Daiquiri in your tent …
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (1:22 pm)Taking regen brakes into account, wouldn’t it be funny if, since they said most of the trip up was in charge sustaining mode, they reached the ground once again and has something like 20 miles of EV range?
Looking on their website…the pike’s peak drive is a 38 mile round trip. I’ll assume exactly 19 miles up and 19 down. If a Volt enters pike’s peak at the beginning of charge sustaining mode, and is supposed to get 50 MPG, getting 19 MPG should be easy.
So they’ll be able to say they did then entire thing with 1 gallon of gas (possibly less, very likely less if you TRIED) and gained 20 EV miles when they were done. Kinda cool.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:22 pm)CIGS hits the mainstream!! HOO-rah!
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:23 pm)I wonder if it would change anyone’s opinion of the Volt if they found out that it completed the second half of the hill climb at a maximum speed of 11 miles per hour?
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:33 pm)… the higher voltage is another reason to hope for an alternative to ultracaps. Any power supplementation bank will require another channel of control, which will add cost. I’m thinking most people won’t want to pay for it … for an early Volt (even Gen II is pretty early, in the scheme of things).
However, this technique would also make for an incredibly hot performing Sport Voltec offering. Things done in the beginning for power (supercharging, multiple valves, electronic ignition) have had a way of ‘filtering down’ to improve economy in less expensive vehicles, over time. Eventually, having two types of energy storage (small high performance expensive / large high energy capacity, cheaper) will become a standard feature, given the wide range of potential benefits.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:38 pm)Usually 1C is maximum, since the pack is 16kwh then 16kw in 1 hour would be the 1C rate.. obviously the pack only uses half of this so it could only do max regen braking for 30 minutes, assuming you started with an empty SOC pack.
The potential energy in a 4700lb (1000lbs cargo) Volt descending 14,000 ft is 24kwh, there is no way the Volt battery can hold this so it must dump the excess heat into the brakes. BTW, it would also take 24kwh for the same car to go up.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:44 pm)I am not slamming Toyota, I just noticed that it seems that when GM was top of the heap..they carried the target for years..now Toyota is, and all of a sudden…Whamo..
thank you, here’s the target.
3 years ago, you heard nothing bad even though there were massive recalls, but if GM had the wrong colour trim, it was all over the news.
I do not mind negatives, I also post GM news, and other items I feel may be of interest on this forum.
see here too for something re Prius.
http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2009/10/07/toyota-s-prius-threatened-by-probe.aspx
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:45 pm)Ya, Silvo. I’ve been up it a few times. Gorgeous place. I saw a live video cam this morning from there. It was snowing.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:47 pm)Oh sure, Ziv. Put a plug in for your state.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:48 pm)Perhaps GM will use an inclinometer to limit maximum power consumption.. so you dont run into power fade.
If the computer detects an consistently aggressive driver abusing the Volt in this way it could also bump up the CS point up 5% (reducing your all-electric range) and thus reserving that extra power to prevent power fade.. this would be an example of a computer that learns your driving behavior and adjusts its program, I believe GM does this already with some of its auto transmissions.
The opposite is also possible, the computer may unlock extra SOC if it learns you are a gentle driver.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:51 pm)Today, off topic, from wsj “Mr. Henderson also announced that Mark LaNeve, GM’s sales chief and longtime executive, is leaving for a job at an unidentified company.”
———————————————
Say it ain’t so Fritz. Mark has been a cheery brightness on so many dark days.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:51 pm)If a power supplementation bank (which I sometimes call a “surge buffer”) is able to allow cheaper cells to be used in the much larger Li/Ion pack, it could go a long way towards paying for itself.
The LG Chem cells have to be capable of sufficient power while storing sufficient energy overall. If the surge buffer is able to provide the power, all the Li/Ion cells really need to do is store energy. In most driving, this means that Li/Ion would be charged and discharged once during a cycle. Regeneration would be handled completely within the surge buffer. In the rare case of a long downhill grade, energy could be fed back to the Li/Ion storage pack at a relatively benign rate (or wasted through a resistor if absolutely necessary).
It would greatly benefit New GM Co to develop this surge buffer, since it could provide the capability for a non-plug-in hybrid when used by itself (and ought to perform better in that role than NimH).
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Oct 7th, 2009 (1:56 pm)With the Volt using the regenerative braking to do most of the stopping most of the time, instead of making the brake pads do the work, it seems like they would have a marketing advantage:
– GM Volt brakes are SAFER because they (almost) never overheat!
– GM Volt brakes will (probably) last the life of the car and never need changing.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (2:01 pm)It does seem like some kind of synthetic oil would be a no-brainer, and I’ll be a little surprised if the Volt’s range extender doesn’t come from the factory with it (and already broken in on a dynamometer, also. Come to think of it, isn’t a genset a kind of built-in dynamometer? This could make factory break in even easier).
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-3
Oct 7th, 2009 (2:02 pm)I can think of lots of interesting things to see on this test, but that is VERY low on the list, and certainly less valuable that a run up to the peak entirely on ICE. But assuming that was true, then why wouldn’t they redo the test completely in extended-range mode afterwards as that is the most interesting and valuable part of this test?
It makes you wonder if GM really is only moderately testing the Volt (e.g. this test, the “cold weather” testing in only moderately cold weather with cars that have been stored inside, etc.).
If they are doing the proper, more stressful tests, then why don’t they report it? Wouldn’t it have sounded much better to say the Volt made it all the way to the top of the peak entirely on charge sustaining mode? That the Volt’s started and flawlessly and got their expected range after sitting outside in -40 degree weather?
It they are doing the stressful tests but only talking about the less-stressful ones, then it must not be doing well. If they aren’t bothering to do the stressful tests at all, that also speaks volumes.
The “we set low expectations of the Volt in a moderately difficult situation and it ‘Exceeded all expectations’…. plus it did REALLY well on this unrelated and trivial aspect (handling, ride quality, etc.) but even that will be better in the final car” PR is getting a bit old. I’d think that even less discerning people are going to see through that soon.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (2:08 pm)I understand that GM has tested the Volt in Death Valley for heat resistance, but heat resistance with humidity is a whole ‘nother thing.
cough Georgia cough
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Oct 7th, 2009 (2:14 pm)Glass half empty?
Where is Tag today?
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Oct 7th, 2009 (2:19 pm)I’ll say it again: Pike’s Peak is an easy climb for the Volt. The road up to this peak does not allow for high speed driving. I’m guessing 45 MPH tops.
To be clear, it’s the combination of higher speed and steep uphill driving that may cause an issue, and the issue is that you will have to slow down.
I’ve driven in 40+ states, and the worst road I’ve seen for the Volt is heading west up out of Death Valley. You start out below sea level and climb to 6000+ feet of altitude over a 16-mile stretch of road. At the bottom, you can go pretty fast, maybe 80 MPH if you want to chance getting a ticket. Toward the top, there are curves and switch-backs, but I seem to remember staying above 55 MPH most of the way.
Someone saw multiple Volts testing at Death Valley here:
http://gm-volt.com/2009/09/25/chevy-volt-prototype-fleet-spotted-in-nevada/
Why doesn’t GM release this???
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Oct 7th, 2009 (2:22 pm)Regarding cold weather tests, weren’t the Malivolt mules tested in Northern Michigan last winter? It gets to be -20 deg F in the UP.
Regarding extended range, GM said it was in RE mode most of the time
“Blanchard confirmed “the Volt was in extended-range mode for the most part of this segment.””
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Oct 7th, 2009 (2:35 pm)The road I was referring to is SR 143 from Parowan to Brian’s Head. It has parts at 13% grade and is not recommended for RV’s or Semi-trucks. Since my Buick had difficulty, it would be nice to see how the electric motor with high torque would handle it. I expect it would do itself proud, but until we get some independent evaluations, we are in the dark.
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-5
Oct 7th, 2009 (2:40 pm)GM flunkies betta make that Regen Braking DRIVER ADJUSTABLE. If they don’t I will take on each one of those so-called engineers in a Steel-Cage death match. Do This.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (2:46 pm)A true test is to run the cars in the Rocky Mountains through the winter. There you will get well below freezing temperatures added to the climbs and downhills to test the car further. Having cold temperatures as in 20F is not really cold, it’s cool. For many of us further north above and below the 49th parallel, -20C(-4F) is cold and will make starting your car sometimes difficult in the morning. So when these tests are on going, leave the car in the cold overnight and try starting it then in the morning. There are 80 cars for extreme testing, test them then in extreme conditions so that everyday conditions would not be much of a concern to the buyer.
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (3:00 pm)“… There is no doubt that the Volt has a big resistor to waste off excess energy during regen braking down hills. The battery can only take in energy at a limited rate, the rest has to be wasted.”
I doubt it.
The battery can charge as fast as it can discharge, and the Volt has a *huge* battery. Resistors are unnecessary because the Volt has conventional brake rotors (like an ICE car), as well as the regenerative braking.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (3:02 pm)RB:
statik might have a bit different take on that, LMAO.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (3:02 pm)maybe they are going viral?
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Oct 7th, 2009 (3:07 pm)Interesting … The Volt has an Atkinson cycle ICE. I wonder if it is affected by altitude to the extent that we are accustomed (given that the intake valve stays open so much longer).
The Prius also has an Atkinson cycle ICE. Do any Prius owners have observations regarding this?
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (3:10 pm)The motor generates electricity. So if needed it would go to a higher sweet spot. Its the electric motor that delivers the power to the drive wheels.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (3:14 pm)Someone posted above that there are limit signs saying 40-45 miles per hour.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (3:19 pm)“.. after all the Volt cannot brake using engine compression.”
Has GM told us that?
It is theoretically possible for the drive motor to regenerate into the generator (the one physically connected to the ICE) while decelerating instead of regenerating into the battery. The generator would then act like a motor and consume that power by turning the ICE, thus braking using engine compression. After all, the generator is already set up to do this to a lesser extent during ICE starting.
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (3:30 pm)I also doubt it, GM has never mentioned or showed it.. or even talked about it. It would have limited utility.. not many people make the Pikes Peak trip.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (3:31 pm)Jackson,
I’m here wading through all the posts. Of COURSE the glass is over half full – they made it to the top and there was no mention of a tow truck.
All the speculation that they are going easy on the testing is just that – speculation. Why should GM “put it all out there”, for the competition to peruse? Still plenty of time before Independence Day of 2010!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+3
Oct 7th, 2009 (3:33 pm)Dave G
A better question is “Why does GM release anything?”
Just a thought.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Oct 7th, 2009 (3:37 pm)The shakeup continues..
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+1
Oct 7th, 2009 (3:46 pm)Jim I
Well said and way too accurate (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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+2
Oct 7th, 2009 (3:53 pm)Sigh…
Pikes peak highway has an average angle of 4 degree
Power Required (Speed) = Speed * (Sin (4) * Mass * Gravity + Mass * Gravity * Rolling Resistance + Air Resistance) + Losses
Mass * Gravity= 3,500 lbs = 15,600 N
Rolling Resistance = 0.01 pavement, 0.030 gravel
Air Resistence= 2.7 m2 * .5 * 1.23 (density of air) * Speed^2 * .27 (Cd) = 0.448 * Speed ^2
Check for Speed= 45 mph = 20.1 m/s
Pavement
Power = 20.1 * ( 1088 N + 156 N + 181 N) + Losses= 28.64 kW + Losses
Gravel
Power= 20.1 * (1088 N + 312 N + 181 N) + Losses= 31.7 kW + Losses
Seems like the generator provides sufficient gap between average power required on Pikes peak Highway to have no significant power fade provided the speed limit is maintained and -fast- acceleration is not required.
In a more realisitic example, consider a 2 degree angle on a major freeway traveling at 65 mph already and an acceleration of 1 mph per second?
Speed= 29 m/s
A/S= .447
Power = 29 * ( 544N + 156 N + 367 N + 15,600 N * .447/9.8) + Losses = 51.5 kW + Losses
If we assume losses around 30% of power, Power from battery = 14 kW. The 10 second burn up to 75 mph (going uphill) would only take a very small fraction from the battery, around .1 kWh (again assuming losses in drawing power from the battery).
Just seems to me that power fade, for a normal user, will not be an issue in a properly functioning Volt. Yes, the Volt will not be able to race a BMW or heck, even a Civic with Top Gear at the helm… but ummmm, Volt DNE Track Toy. Pikes peak probably has more to do with verifying the altitude performance of the ICE, and the altitude performance of the switch rather than verifying a power issue.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (3:54 pm)I remember way back when, when we said how hard the wait was going to be when it was 30 months to go……………..
But this last year really will be a killer!!!!!
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Oct 7th, 2009 (3:59 pm)Jim I
The wait will be over before we know it! (I know that that’s not true, but just had to say it). As you said, relative to where we started, it’s almost HERE.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Oct 7th, 2009 (4:10 pm)Granted, it’s not “both challenges at once,” but as I recall, the Volt team did do extensive cold-weather testing on the mules last winter in Canada.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (4:24 pm)Wouldn’t surprise me a bit.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (4:33 pm)Hey…. Somethin’s smelling a little fishy here….
We (the American People without so much as a ‘please’) gave a bunch of bailout ‘loans’ to these guys so that they could change the way they do business and manufacture the ‘car of the future’…. Now these guys are ever so s..l..o..w..l..y.. walking out the back door before that dream is realized…..
Are they getting some of them there “Golden Parachutes” on their way out? Huh?!
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Oct 7th, 2009 (4:34 pm)Someone has to be glass half-empty, what with all the overflowing glasses around here
According to GM-Volt.com:
The US testing involved, “…chassis control development including stability control and braking. Battery work was not the primary task…”
whereas:
“In Canada, the focus of the testing was the propulsion system. The cars were kept indoors overnight, and then they were evaluated to see how they started and how they ran after a cold soak.
According to Voltec team leader Greg Ciesel, temperatures the mules were exposed to were “very much below zero,” and even at the Milford proving grounds “we got to probably minus 10 or 15 degrees F.”
As anywone who lives in a cold climate knows, running a car in -15 is much different than running car that has sat outisde in -15 which is MUCH different than running a car that has sat outside overnight in -15.
Plus a lot of Canada (and I bet some of the central northern US) calls -15 a moderate winter day.
It was a soft test.
As for Pikes Peak:
The “most” of 19 Miles could be as little as 10. Regardless, if they were actually setting out to test the worst-case (and not even an unrealistic case) they would have been on the ICE before they started.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (4:40 pm)Remember the mule test drive Lyle was involved in several months ago? The mule climbed a straight uphill roller coaster-like incline at 50 MPH. Yes, the run was short. But this displayed the capability of the Voltec system. The Pike’s Peak test is more about keeping the support ICE running strong in the thin air of high altitude. And less about sweating the demand on the electric motor. Taking on the the climb and winning is a promising result.
=D~
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Oct 7th, 2009 (4:42 pm)Thanks for the info DaV8or. I’ll need to vacation in Death Valley more often.
=D~
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Oct 7th, 2009 (4:46 pm)What’s up with all this talk about driving in the snow? If it snows, my VOLT is staying in the garage where it belongs! (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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Oct 7th, 2009 (5:07 pm)“It is theoretically possible for the drive motor to regenerate into the generator….?”
Yes, but only if the controller is designed to switch disssipative loads (large resistors) to load the generator/motor in this mode (i.e., replacing the battery load) after the battery is no longer able to accept additional charge. My guess is GM has designed it this way rather than by using less-predictable engine compression braking. I may be wrong.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (5:07 pm)Care to run that last one (2 deg, 65 to 75 mph) with 800lbs of payload (4 big mac eatin’ adults) and 25mph headwind?
/My point about power fade is not whether it’s an issue that people would normally have to deal with. It’s the abnormal situation that turns into an accident and a lawsuit that’s the concern.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (5:08 pm)GM’s Top Sales Executive Steps Down
I had a feeling after Bob Kruse left others might follow. There is scoop they aren’t giving Lyle.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/07/gms-top-sales-executive-steps-down/
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Oct 7th, 2009 (5:20 pm)HEY!
HEY YOU!
Stop looking over there!
Look here! Right here at the nice pretty volt. Just keep looking riiiight here at the Volt. Thaaaat’s right.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (5:26 pm)What I remember, and I’m not taking notes so I could be very wrong, was that Lutz, around the time the concept was introduced, saying that they’d wanted to get it under $30k, as in $29.99k. After that it was more or less all downhill.
But this is so typical. Didn’t Fisker say something like $65K? Didn’t Tesla say something like $85K? It’s almost always works this way. And not only with new technology. I’ve had customers roll their own because they thought our offerings were way too expensive, and at the end of the day it costs them double. It’s just the way the human brain estimates.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (5:30 pm)Very cool. Not only does it seem more real when you see one on the road, it seems more real when someone reports seeing one on the road!
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Oct 7th, 2009 (5:33 pm)I haven’t looked for it, but I suspect you’re right. Anybody who’s eligible for a nice retirement package is probably gettin’ out while the gettin’s good.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (5:36 pm)Yes, but only if you drink all the MGD first!
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Oct 7th, 2009 (5:55 pm)Well it’s gotta be tough trying to sell Aveos and Cobalts against Corollas and Yarises and Civics and Fits. Right CorvetteGuy?
Again the question has to be, can they get competetive new products to the market in sufficient quantities before they run out of cash again..For the final time IMHO, as another bailout is going to be really tough.
Maybe these guys know something we don’t about this issue.
Come on Cruze, Spark and Volt, before it’s too late.
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Oct 7th, 2009 (5:57 pm)JB:
Did you notice the cool link below this story to one about the new Caprice Police Patrol Vehicle, supposedly based on the soon to expire Zeta/G-8? I wonder if that means a rwd Impala SS may yet come back to life?
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Oct 7th, 2009 (6:07 pm)DaveG, “Someone saw multiple Volts testing at Death Valley here:
http://gm-volt.com/2009/09/25/chevy-volt-prototype-fleet-spotted-in-nevada/
Why doesn’t GM release this???”
Pikes Peak is well known and reverberates amongst all generations of Americans as a true test of a cars abilities. Pikes Peak resonates instantly – over 14,100 feet, WOW.
I have lived in California and mainly within 50 to 150 miles of Death Valley all my life, and I didn’t know anything about “the worst road I’ve seen for the Volt is heading west up out of Death Valley. You start out below sea level and climb to 6000+ feet of altitude over a 16-mile stretch of road.” …until the first time you wrote about it! Without putting this drive in context, I don’t think it would have the same kind of publicity value for GM. And right now every one seems to be thinking, how will the Volt do in cold weather for some reason
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