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Compact Power/LG Chem to Produce and Assemble Battery Packs for GMs 2-Mode Plugin Hybrid, Not GM
GM has been developing a plugin 2-mode hybrid since 2006. It was at first to be deployed in the Saturn VUE. The host vehicle was later changed to a compact Buick SUV when the Saturn division was sold. That decision too was scrapped, however, GM still intends to sell the drivetrain in some vehicle in 2011.
Although GM has decided to do pack assembly in-house for the Chevy Volt, apparently they have decided to let LG Chem subsidiary Compact Power assemble the packs for the plugin hybrid themselves.
“We will be supplying the production packs,” Compact Power CEO Prabahkar Patil told GM-Volt.com. “Those production packs will not be made by GM. We will actually be making them but in volume production.”
He explains that LG Chem and GM’s “relationship of course goes well beyond the Volt.”
The 2-mode plugin pack will be half the size of the Volt’s, consisting of 8 kwh of lithium ion cells.
“It’s a different form factor because its tailored to fit in the vehicle its intended for,” says Patil. “It is a different configuration, but there is quite a bit that is shared with Volt in terms of technology. The cell for example will be the same.”
He says that the thermal management system will also be “very similar” to the one used in the Volt.
“We try to commonize as much as we can,” he says. “That will always be our approach, to bring the cost down because of the volumes being higher and secondly because when you are reusing something it doesn’t require as much additional validation and testing and that also helps being the cost down and actually make the quality more robust.”
Patil says the packs will be made in a facility in Michigan that LG Chem just acquired in the past few months and refurbished. He says that right now the facility is “still in the prototype phase as that’s where we are also making the Volt prototype packs.”
GM has not announced what production volume they expect for the 2-mode plugin hybrid.
Patil gives some guidance be explaining that when the current LG facility “gets some automation by the end of next year, it will have the capacity of 2500 of the large Volt type packs or as much as 10,000 of smaller packs.”
“The capacity depends on the nature and size of the pack,” he says.
128 Responses to “Compact Power/LG Chem to Produce and Assemble Battery Packs for GMs 2-Mode Plugin Hybrid, Not GM”
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September 29th, 2009 at 6:56 am
Hmm, I wonder which vehicle will get it this time?
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:00 am
They dont know what vehicle will use the FWD 2-Mode transaxle .. but you can be sure it will not be a large number. Nasaman wont be happy about this.
2500 of the Volt’s large pack does not seem like much of a production line.. this must be a per month rate.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:01 am
OK, so GM spends tons of money to develop a battery center and assembly plant but outsources the 2 mode battery. Worse than that it sounds like GM gave LG Chem lots of proprietary info to “make the volt and 2 mode battery systems common” Doesn’t sound like a great plan to me. Hope they’ve got some good nondisclosure agreements signed. But even still they handed over proprietary knowledge to a company that can outsource battery packs to any other car company.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:09 am
You really think making a battery pack is more complicated and difficult than making the cells? . Any company could quickly figure out what GM did by just taking apart one of the packs.
Think which company owns what technology..
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:10 am
I’d like to see these packs could go into the GMT-900 series two-mode hybrids for an increase in battery-only range, better fuel milage, and also to improve their perception as high-tech green vehicles.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:16 am
I am happy that the US division of LG ended up with some battery contracts. I was sad when they weren’t rewarded for their work on the Volt – this is some consolation.
Remember, these packs are still made in America – that’s what counts.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:17 am
It wouldn’t help much; those vehicles have very high drag and are very heavy. Think about all the effort that has gone into reducing drag on the Volt.
A moderate size pack would offer very little useful EV range at high cost.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:18 am
None of the packs are out yet to take apart. I never said the cells were easy to make, but the systems level engineering that goes into making sure the battery packs last 150,000 miles was probably pretty extensive. IMO that seems like something you’d want to keep close.
LG owns the cells and GM owned the pack. I think I’ve got that under control
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:19 am
I agree and might add, I wouldn’t buy “any” two mode hybrid marginally better gas mileage for a lot more money. There is no pay off here. Kind of like a boat “The two happiest days of a boat owner(2-mode hybrid) the day you buy it and the day you sell it”. At least with the Volt you have a 40 mile range with no gas useage.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:20 am
True. Any company gets the benefit of Li-Ion when they think it’s economically feasible. GM gains nothing by running ahead of the curve.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:28 am
GMCO shouldn’t underestimate the popularity of the full Voltek system. The smooth, quiet, high torque, all time electric drive experience will change the dynamic of the auto industry.
Dealership sales people will be hearing questions like, “So this car runs on an electric motor all of the time?’”. And, “This car is like the Volt, right?”.
Two mode plug in hybrids will be popular when priced under $30k. The over $30k sticker sales will favor the full Voltek system.
BTW: It’s surprising to talk with “the man on the street” and find that many are still unaware of the wave of new electric vehicles being developed. When they finally get their test drive (2012?) it will be a rush.
=D~
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:30 am
It would make GM the only maker of full-size two-mode plugin hybrid flex-fuel SUVs, and I’d assume that the plugin pack could go into their hybrid pickup trucks, too.
After that, drop it into the Traverse and its siblings, and the new Equinox and its siblings, also.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:40 am
The 2-Mode system uses a smaller battery, plus it may have an mpg advantage over the Voltec in charge sustaining mode.. so there is a place for it … plus they already sunk a lot of money in the development, and Old GM paid for it
Pair it with a nice Ecotec 4 cyl or an Atkinson cycle ice and you may have a very economical package.. but a 6 cylinder plus all the goodies will make the car into another $50k wonder with poor gas mileage. No one is going to tow with a FWD vehicle anyways.
Perhaps GM’s strategy is to have the system in reserve in case oil prices spike again.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:40 am
I like your idea Daniel. It is true as Dagwood just mentioned regarding the aero drag and heavy weight issues of these vehicles. However if even a 5 or 10 mpg gain could be realized simply by swapping the NiMH pack for a slightly larger, longer range, and more robust Li-Ion pack, there may be an avenue worth pursuing. The current 2-mode Silverado gets 20 mpg, that’s already head of the class in fuel economy for gas engine trucks. Now put a diesel in there, and the economies run neck and neck. By using the Li-Ion packs being developed, the Hybrid option in this class of vehicles suddenly becomes a formidable competitor and surpasses the diesels. And it would look better and better when the price of gas goes up again. Nice.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:40 am
The article said that it was being made for a particular vehicle type but the two vehicles previously pegged for it aren’t an option any longer. How many more possibilities are left?
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:44 am
I believe the data and testing to make the packs last 150k miles came from LG also.. after all they have been testing these cells since 2005.
Lots of other companies know how to package cells into an automotive grade pack.. Tesla is one as an example.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:46 am
You’re right about the man on the street being unaware of the coming electrification wave in autos. But I don’t see that negatively impacting the future. Think about 3-4 years ago, when mostly businessmen and cybergeeks had Blackberries and PDAs. Now nearly every phone sold is a smartphone. Once people see good technology, they adopt it. Sometimes it just doesn’t make any sense to educucate them ahead of the technology being available. You’re right… it will be a rush when they first drive it, and the great automobile transformation will begin.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:55 am
A couple of things I latched on in the article:
Patil said: “The 2-mode plugin pack will be half the size of the Volt’s, consisting of 8 kwh of lithium ion cells.”
I understand GM is looking at putting the pack in a crossover, however, in addition to that, why not put this same drivetrain in say a 2-mode plug-in Malibu and/or Cruze as Corvetteguy and others have suggested? Proliferate the platform.
Patil said, “We try to commonize as much as we can,” he says. “That will always be our approach, to bring the cost down because of the volumes being higher and secondly because when you are reusing something it doesn’t require as much additional validation and testing and that also helps being the cost down and actually make the quality more robust.”
Commonizing among platforms is a must and a no-brainer really. I’m just glad that they seem to be applying sense here.
Patil said, “it will have the capacity of 2500 of the large Volt type packs or as much as 10,000 of smaller packs.”
I’m predicting a lot of people will read into this that there are going to be inadequate abilities to produce packs for these vehicles if there is strong demand. Capacity numbers like that don’t frighten me much. If a company has a hot product, there are always ways to increase production and automation. If demand would far outpace their production capacities, make no mistake, GM and LG Chem would see to it to meet it somehow. That’s JMO.
Another good article Lyle–Thank you.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:58 am
I’ll vote for this 2-mode system in the upcoming Chevy Orlando compact van – its the perfect platform for both family and business applications. And since it shares GM’s global small car platform with the Cruze, that could be added as well.
The more variations GM can bring to market, the more mainstream the technology will become. It may start as a 2-mode hybrid system, but as consumers warm to the idea that a vehicle can indeed run on electric power, perhaps GM can begin stretching the ‘electric mode’ portion of the 2-mode system. If battery performance is good enough, they may be able to delay the ICE from kicking in until the vehicle hits 20 or 25 mph. If they could get even a 5 mile range, it would be enough for many folks to their destination without use of fuel.
Keep them coming . . . but ultimately, I believe in VOLT!!!
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:09 am
“GM has not announced what production volume they expect for the 2-mode plugin hybrid.
Patil gives some guidance be explaining that when the current LG facility “gets some automation by the end of next year, it will have the capacity of 2500 of the large Volt type packs or as much as 10,000 of smaller packs.” ”
Maybe GM hasn’t announced but if CPI is accurate then they just announced it and it ain’t much.
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:33 am
Equinox SUV, with a 4 cylinder engine.. perhaps turbocharged and Atkinso cycle to get 30+ gas mileage.. but I doubt people would pay $10k for that option… perhaps a non turbo version can be sold for about $4k extra, but with a small nimh pack.
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Neil
I think it should be something to compete with the Ford Fusion. That car seems a run away winner, so maybe the Malibu.
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:44 am
Orlando is a great idea. Better than my first thought of the Malibu. The Orlando would having them leading the pack again as they are IMHO with the Volt.
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:46 am
This is interesting news.
But what is more important is:
Will there be Volts available for sale fourteen months from tomorrow? That is the deadline folks………
NPNS
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Are we talking 2500 and 10,000 packs per week, per month or per year? Even at 2500 per week that corresponds to only 130,000 per year for the Volt packs. Not a bad number, but not as many as GM should be shooting for. Or as much as demand will be calling for if GM can reduce the cost of the Volt by $5,000 to $7,500 over the next three or four years.
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:56 am
GM sells a lot of parts to Suzuki (Auto Div)… Do they have a 2-Mode in the works?
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Just stick it in the Chevy Equinox already. No brand engineering, maket it as a prelude to the Chey Volt.
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:59 am
ALL CARS ELECTRIC has an interesting article on a Prius that went cross country [the car was modified to plug in] on 25 gallons of Algae fuel.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:03 am
The 2-Mode Tahoes and Silverados work very well. They are just over-priced for the intended buyers. ($51,000 to $53,500 for Tahoe Hybrids)
If 2-mode is going to Malibu, it will also raise the price above the intended buyers (in my opinion).
Speaking of price, isn’t today the day EEStor “puts up or shuts up”??
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:07 am
And with 3000 remaining dealers, that means at least 43 or more units you guys can get from me!
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Absolutely agreed!
I’ve been saying GM should make all the light trucks 2-mode for a while now..
Don’t let the 20 mpg number fool you. improving from 15 to 20 mpg is a 25% improvement across the board.
That’s huge.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:24 am
Agreed.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:31 am
I totaly agree on this a full size SUV with 10 miles all electric would be great. Even if it is only good to 45 mph. Many many people could save a lot of gas with this.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Regarding a Malibu Plug-in, what is the level of interest for such a vehicle in your opinion, CorvetteGuy? Apparently even at the sky-high prices of the Tahoe and Silverado hybrids, GM still sells a minute few even in this challenging economy. If I were to take a wag, I would say a Chevrolet Malibu PHEV with say an 8 kwh pack like Patil discusses above, nicely equipped would probably weigh in at $32-$35000? That’s roughly $10,000 on top of a “standard” Malibu. Do you think people would buy it? IMO, I think there would be a market for it. Although, GM could be putting the relevance of the Volt in jeopardy. In effect, it would be a kissing cousin to the Volt. Tough call.
Sidenote: LOL! Yeah, EEstor missing a deadline to prove themselves is so unlike them.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:38 am
I agree with that. I’m very close to buying a Fusion next year. I’d love something well built that performs even better mileage-wise.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:44 am
That’s the real problem.
A new Tahoe hybrid is $71715 here in Canada, although the ‘online’ cash credit brings it to $65615 in Alberta (www.gm.ca)
Mass production drops prices… I can’t imagine that either GM or LG would be heart broken to have to spool up production were volumes to grow to 200000+ packs with all light GM trucks having a 2-mode system.
——————
EEStor…. errr… no comment.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:50 am
“Not a bad number, but not as many as GM should be shooting for.”
I think we are talking about Gen1 build numbers here and these make sense to me.
The Gen2 car will likely be quite different (meaning more refined, and therefore having different packaging) so I think this is a logical build up.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:51 am
FYI the 2010 ‘nox already gets 32 highway with the 2.4L 4 cyl engine.
http://www.chevrolet.com/equinox2010/features-specs/
Now, if you are talking 30+ city, that would be interesting.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:58 am
At the current price, GM can’t move the GMT900 hybrids. Adding Li-Ion and a few miles’ range will absolutely turbo-charge the price.
Nobody buying a GMT900-sized vehicle cares very much about fuel economy, it’s just part of the cost of owning such a vehicle. If the prospect cared about fuel economy, he’d simply buy a Lambda-based SUV/CUV, save himself $20K on the upfront cost and get highway fuel economy better than the GMT900 hybrid.
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:10 am
For many, including myself, that is so true. I own a 2005 Sierra extended cab, and had a 2000 model before that. The hybrid versions are rare; they have been from the first mild-hybrid versions right up to today. But even if I could have gotten my hands on one, the economics didn’t make any sense.
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:14 am
“GM still sells a minute few…”
First, it’s really minute, about 800/month. GM total hybrid sales of 1500 or so/month include the BAS vehicles. GM does not too often break out individual model figures.
Second, consumer acceptance is probably lower than those numbers indicate. I strongly suspect that one of GM’s deep, dark secrets of the GMT900 hybrid program is fleet sales. All the GMT900 hybrids I’ve seen on the road have been government fleet vehicles.
The local dealer has had a GMT900 hybrid on the lot for over a year without moving it. Sale tags come and go, at the moment it’s looking like $7K off list but it has been there before and even lower without anybody buying it.
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:19 am
>> isn’t today the day EEStor “puts up or shuts up”??
I, for one will not be holding my breath! Will you?
(yeah, yeah, I hope they succeed, revolutionize the world, and all that jazz… but I’m -still- not holding my breath!)
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:22 am
“Mass production drops prices… ”
True enough but the price of the two-mode transmission is going to fall more slowly than, say, electronics, where fabrication advances are continuous and significant.
The two-mode transmission has a LOT of parts in it and this means it’s expensive to fabricate and assemble and, even with production scale improvements, it’s going to remain expensive.
The HSD system, by comparison has relatively few parts in it and is easy to fabricate and assemble. That’s part of the reason Toyota can offer a full hybrid for a lower price than GM can offer their BAS “mild – very mild” hybrid.
The Toyota battery has come down in price in recent years but it’s not dropping 50% every couple of years. It has fallen by about 25-30% in 5 years. And Toyota sells a lot of those batteries, so Panasonic makes a lot of those cells. They are well into “mass production” regimes. Price improvements are likely to be slower from here on out.
You can hope that the Li-Ion battery price curve meets that but I certainly wouldn’t forecast that it would do better.
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Daniel:
A plug-in hybrid Colorado could be a pretty useful work truck for people like me. I do about 25K miles/year in my S-10, between commuting and work errands. I could save a LOT of gas. I DO NOT want to use a Silverado sized truck for these purposes.
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:25 am
GM could also buy packs manufactured offshore to meet larger production volumes and there’s no reason the manufacturer couldn’t ramp. GM also intends to do their own packs, still, don’t they? Perhaps CPI isn’t going whole-hog on this because they expect pack assembly to go to GM. They probably expect to market those 2500/month capacity of large packs to another automaker, so the plant is worth building.
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Brian, no new car provides a financial pay off.
This is the case with every car.
You want to save money? Walk. take the bus, hire a cab or buy an older car.
BUT, if you are going to buy a new car it might as well be the best it can be for the environment… right?
I’m all for Voltec drive, but if they can build 2-mode at a lower price and get a lot of the gains out in the wild then I say go for it.
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Off topic, but we have been gone for a few days, and I just want to give a shout out to Jim Northrup for his cool writeup on seeing the Volt test caravan.
The late Mike Pillsbury found our 1958 Corvette derelict behind Bobby Woods’ race shop in Pahrump. Woods is/was a pretty well known sprint car driver, so maybe Jim has heard of him.
The 1958 won its race at the Coronado Festival of Speed vintage car races this weekend, BTW. Ahem, ahem, LOL.
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:40 am
The CPI/LG facility will not be producing the packs for the volt once it goes to production. They are only building volt packs there during development. The number we should take away is the 10k for the 2 mode capacity.
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:43 am
The number of Volt packs is not really that important for this facility as it will not be the source for the packs once they go to production.
GM is still building their own facility for the production of Volt packs. this facility is intended to produce the packs for the 2-mode. They are just producing Volt packs now as GM does not yet have their facility online.
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Chevy isn’t selling a lot of Hybrids because they don’t have the ‘reputation’ of building great Hybrids. The 1st-Gen Malibu Hybrids (and I use the term lightly) were scoffed at by most customers who looked at it, and the price then was only about $3500 more than the regular models. They only sold well when Rebates and Fed Tax Credits more than offset the price increase. Chevy buyers DO WANT Hybrids, but not the price tag.
A new 2-Mode Malibu at $10K over the standard would be a huge loser. At least around here. I think it would do better in the new Equinox — which is getting a really great response! The standard model gets great gas mileage already! If a 2-Mode were added to the mix (hopefully for only $5000 more), I think that would sell and give GM a better “Hybrid” reputation.
Attn: GM Marketing
How about a TV Commercial with interview snippets of “happy owners” of the Tahoe and Silverado Hybrids… ?!!! We know the 2-Mode system works great. The general public is still in the dark!!!
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Just stick a “T” pack in the Spark and call it Done!
All I want is a BEV commuter with at least 40AER. My older “Child Unit” will be driving so I will only need 2 seats now.
Electrify the SPARK!!!
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!!
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:00 am
I am very much looking forward to the Orlando replacing the HHR! That little car is looking very ‘dated’, just like the PT Cruiser.
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Doesn’t that smell a little ‘fishy’ to you?
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:13 am
There are many unknown’s.
I do not know the real numbers and I’d be really surprised if anyone where does.
If the will to make it happen is strong enough then the 2-mode price could hit this target. This would require serious buy-in from the management team and the players.
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:19 am
lol….
Ditto!
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Ford Fusion FTW !
GM you are too late…once again.
Get off your lazy arses and just do it before the comp leaves you in the dust.
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:30 am
He’s just a Fungai 2 B around…
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:30 am
I agree, John —in fact, the new Equinox with it’s 2.4L 4Cyl would be a perfect host for the former Vue 2-mode Plug-in for the Chevy lineup. And the full V6 version would be perfect in the Caddy line-up as an SRX-style Plug-in CUV! There is an enormous latent demand for high-mileage CUVs in this country!
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:36 am
(click to show comment)
September 29th, 2009 at 11:39 am
I believe that bigger than the Spark that T pack is.
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Prolly per year. It has taken GM 2 years to get the first one hundred packs, so they are taking their sweet old time. Milking it for all its worth.
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Remember the cost of a replacement battery is built into ALL GM Hybrid vehicles. This was mandated from the top BC.
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:44 am
While I agree with your first comment I would like to minumize my losses 2 mode technology was obsolete before it hit the street. The complexity is high and the gains are low. Your true carbon footprint is the same or worse with most 2-modes and in most cases you pay considerly more for it. Its there clever marketing that makes us believe we are being green in our efforts to pay more. In Europe the diesel is king they get better mileage and it takes less energy to crack oil into diesel The new TDI Jetta is rated at 50mpg for 20k. hard to stack that against most 2-modes.
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Maybe the extra volume will enable them to bring the price down?
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:53 am
That’s a very good point! Toyota has (1) good hybrid system, and they promote the hell out of it. GM is trying out two or three at this point. No wonder people are confused or skeptical at best.
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September 29th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
I think the plan was to mate it with a V6 engine in the Saturn Vue. I don’t know why GM needs to do it with a V6 except they want to be sure it has the towing capacity needed to tow boats, etc. Personally, I think they should do both a 4 cylinder and a V6. The buyer can then choose power over mileage. Some of us don’t need to pull boats and trailers, but do want a small CUV to drive because of the storage space and multiple uses.
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September 29th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Since there will not be a Saturn or Buick version of this vehicle, GM should do a Cadillac or Chevrolet version. I could even see them doing both along with a GMC version. The new Cadillac CUV just announced, the Chevrolet Equinox and the GMC Terrain are possible vehicles to accept this two-mode hybrid set-up.
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September 29th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Agreed. Along with the new GMC Terrain, or whatever it is called. Cadillac is the only brand where they might be able to bury most of the extra cost and still make a profit. Maybe GMC more than Chevrolet. Even so, Cadillac and GMC would sell a lot less than the Chevrolet Equinox – if GM could get the cost down to a reasonable figure. That is why your suggestion of a V6 Cadillac and a 4 cylinder Chevrolet version makes sense. The 4 cylinder would cut a good bit of cost.
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September 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Why not use a Silverado sized truck? Not enough difference in mileage between an S-10 and a new Silverado to make any difference. The Silverado should get better mileage than the older S-10 unless it is a 4 cylinder stick shift and you drive it very conservatively. But, yeah, I wish GM had a good mileage truck that could get around 30 MPG on the highway and 22 in the city.
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September 29th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Thanks Lyle!
This site makes my day. Even the trolls are fun.
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September 29th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
“Don’t make me pull out another Doofus Of The Day Award ”
I thought you WERE that…
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September 29th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
SAVE THE TROLLS!!!
Collect a whole set!
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September 29th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I just got this in my mail.
GM India To Launch Chevrolet Cruze
Published:29-September-2009
By Staff Reporter
The small car Chevrolet Beat is expected to soon follow
GM India is going to launch the new mid-size sedan, Chevrolet Cruze on October 12. The small car Chevrolet Beat is expected to soon follow the Cruze – reported WheelsUnplugged.
Reportedly, GM Chevrolet Cruze was first unveiled at the Paris Motor show. In India, Cruze will be pitted against Honda Civic, Skoda Octavia, and Toyota Corolla which are also positioned in the upper midsize segment.
The Chevrolet Cruze is expected to come in two variants, manual and automatic, but only with the diesel engine, lifted from the Captiva. The car would have more than 50% localisation and will be rolled out from its Halol facility in the Indian state of Gujarat.
P. Balendran, vice president of General Motors India, said: “We are gearing up to launch Chevrolet Cruze on 12th October’09. Initially we’ll offer a diesel version and then we’ll offer the petrol version. A sizable chunk of auto parts, including the engine will be sourced from GM’s South Korean plant,”
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September 29th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I dunno much about the Cruze. Does anyone have specs or a link for me to read? Yes, even I can read….
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September 29th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
GM can do all the PR marketing that they want to, but until the hybrid cost is less than $2,000 over a non-hybrid model they are going to be losers. If the hybrid was a completely different model with different styling (like the Prius for Toyota) people “might” be more willing to purchase one. Not at a high premium price over a similar Malibu, Cobalt, Cruze or Equinox, for example. Speaking from a purely customer perspective, I am not willing to spend over $2,000 more for a hybrid that looks just like a standard vehicle and only gets 2 – 3 MPG more per gallon. Just not going to happen. Plus, every hybrid is loaded down with options that drive the cost sky high. Some of us don’t want to have to purchase the top of the line equipped vehicle in order to save a few dollars a year in gasoline cost.
I have always been of the opinion that GM should have come out with a specialized hybrid in a separate line like Toyota did with the Prius. But it should have been done about 7 years ago. Now, if gasoline prices sky rocket, that would be another story. All the marbles will change location then. IMO.
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September 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
But I want to drive gas free to a certain degree…..
What’s the Fusion’s AER?……wha………0?………FTW?
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September 29th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Yes and I think the only way GM can out do Toyota in hybrid technology is with the Voltec propulsion system. GM just does not have competitive hybrid technology that will let it go head-to-head with the Prius. That does not mean they should give up the 2-mode and BAS hybrid systems. They should continue developing them if they can see where they can increase their efficiency while reducing the cost. If they can not do that, they don’t need to waste the money on further development. They would be better off doing their own HSD hybrid drive system. IMO.
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September 29th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Good to see GM Korea plant utilization increasing. The more the merrier. USA labor costs are just ridiculous not too mention extremely poor work habits. Korean labor makes Americans look like retarded schoolboys. Yes, I have been to both plants. No comparison whatsoever. GM would do well to move as much production as possible to Asia and Europe since their efficiency is Top Shelf.
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September 29th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Troll Alert.
How’s that hair going Mitch ?
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September 29th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
It’s all perception. People who buy huge vehicles are labelled as being wasteful, but how about people who buy houses that are way larger than what they really need or can afford (vs. what they want)? Houses use fossil fuels to heat and cool as well. I’m sure the building and home furnishings industry wouldn’t be too happy if the “smaller is better” movement hit the housing market.
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September 29th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
GM almost never reduces prices. Have you been to a dealer lot lately. Incentives are being reduced, interest rates are creeping up, and prices for 2010 models have INCREASED. This is the New GM, deal with it.
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September 29th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
It’s good that the manufacturing is done in the US. Being able to reinvest the profits of the operation in other US projects would be better. Of course, if EVs take off, LG will continue to invest in the US, but only for so long – sooner or later the profits go back home to the owners. If the profits go overseas, it’s a lost opportunity for us.
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September 29th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Not gonna happen. And for even thinking of such a hair brained idea you have been issued a Doofus-Of-The-Day award. Kindly keep your head away from your anal area.
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September 29th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
What is the period for producing the 2500 or the 10,000 battery packs? Per month? If that’s the yearly production, it doesn’t seem like they are expecting any significant volume of orders from GM.
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September 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
You should be in a Toyota Tacoma pickup. Widely regarded as the BEST pickup in the world. Learn what a REAL truck is all about. After you get edumacated come back and spread the praise for this wonderful piece of best-of-breed engineering. Nobody does it better.
Your choice of current transportation hereby renders all your comments moot and poorly reflects on any intelligence you may have in your diminutive cortex.
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September 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
I’d like to hear Noel’s take.
But I feel like interjecting the reason why I don’t want a Silverado-sized truck. My workload doesn’t require it, and it’s just too big. Anything longer, taller, or wider than my Ranger is unlikely to fit in my driveway and garage. Smaller vehicles are less work to park and require less care when maneuvering in tight spaces, and most errands for which I use the truck require both.
Also, I’m short. Anything with a seat higher off the ground than my Ranger is going to be extra work to get in and out. Also, I’d like to be able to reach the roof of the truck with the door closed, so that I can wash and wax it easily — the Ranger is already too tall this way, so anything taller is going to be even less maintainable.
So, even if the cost and efficiency were exactly the same, I would still prefer the compact pickup truck over a 3/4 ton truck.
The only problems that I have with my Ranger (other than having a long list of components replaced in the 100k-150k mile range) is that it’s not 4wd/AWD, that it runs off of gasoline, and gets only 25mpg. Put a full-time 4wd system in it, and I’ll put it on my “next 7 years” list. Put a turbodiesel engine in it (with pretty good mileage), and it gets onto my “next 4 years” list. Put a 4wd Voltec system in it and it goes on my “as soon as my wife will let me buy it” list.
I’ve thought about the new Subaru Brat, but that 4′ bed it too small to be useful — I often haul 4′x8′ sheets of plywood, and I doubt that I can secure them in that bed. A 6′ bed works fine for me, but flatten out the wheel wells and I’ll never consider another brand of truck again.
I’m not a contractor or a farmer — I’m just a DIY type who likes to have some capability available.
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September 29th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
The 2010 SRX is pretty sweet looking and I dont even like SUV/CUV’s. I’d love to see this car get the 2-mode.
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September 29th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
The TDI’s are beautiful cars, especially if you drive a lot of miles.
But, please, for the love of your sanity, never buy one that isn’t covered under the factory warranty. I owned a 2001 VW GLS TDI, and I found Volkswagen’s quality-control the be lacking (especially in the transmission department) — and the replacement parts were quite expensive. Even though it was a maintenance whore (I got screwed AND I had to pay for it), my TDI is still one of my favorite cars of all time. That’s how amazingly nice the TDI is….
Alas, the wife’s 2004 Prius is a better fit for our needs now, so I sold the TDI, and the maintenance hassles that went with it.
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September 29th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
When we run out of algea, the prime ingredient of Soylent Green, we know what happens next…!
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September 29th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
This just in:
http://www.freep.com/article/20090929/BUSINESS01/90929057/1002/rss02
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September 29th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Good call — especially since there isn’t any competition for a high-mpg hybrid minivan in the US, much less serious competition. Perhaps GM could pwn the segment, as Toyota has pwn3d the market for the small hybrid, and Ford has pwn3d the market for the midsize hybrid.
I really like this idea!
Though I’d like a Voltec Mazda-5 sized minivan better, if the price were reasonable…
P.S. The in-laws rented a Camry Hybrid the other day, and let us drive it for a bit. I can see why the way the battery is shoehorned into the trunk is a deal-killer for many people. My wife did like the feel of the car, though — and she’s normally weirded out by “normal” cars. I’m curious to see what she thinks when she drives the Fusion hybrid.
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September 29th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
I thought that both the PT Cruiser and the HHR were supposed to retro?
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September 29th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Yes, if they want to infringe on GM patents.
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September 29th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
I’m still waiting for that post — showing that EEStor has been certified by UL that it works as advertised. That would be FAN….. Wait for it….. Wait… For… It… TASTIC!!!
But sadly… I’m still waiting.
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September 29th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
“EESTOR was issued new patent US7,595,109 today (9-29-09)”
http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat7595109.pdf
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September 29th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
lol…
My Saturn did that with the floor mats. I fixed it with a very expensive tool. I used a pair of scisors to cut off the foreward “tongue” closest to the pedals. It (My Saturn) didn’t have those hook thingy’s for the floor mat holes.
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September 29th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
I could be wrong, but the 2-mode PHEV CUV seems like a green washing exercise. If GM thought they would sell a lot of these, then GM would be assembling the production battery packs, not CPI.
As I’ve said before, a PHEV with only 10 miles of electric boost is, for most people, more hassle than it’s worth. They say it will get 70 MPG, but that’s only for the first 10 miles. With a typical driving pattern, it will be more like 35 MPG average. This means you’ll still have to go to the gas station every week, and plug in every night.
With an EREV, a typical driving pattern will yield over 200 MPG average. This means you’ll only have to go to the gas station every 3 months.
PHEVs are more like regular gas engine cars with a little bit of electric boost. EREVs are more like electric cars with a range extender that you only need to use once in a while.
That’s a huge difference. It’s the all-electric range that matters. A plug-in without much range will be more hassle than it’s worth, so these won’t be popular for very long. And it seems GM may know this, hence the decision for CPI for build the packs in low volume.
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September 29th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
My wife has one of those little trolls from 1970.
About 4 inches tall.
Got little outfits for it and everything.
Why I brought that up, I do not know.
Nevermind.
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September 29th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
I don’t know if I’d go as far as calling it greenwashing, but from what we’ve seen of the historical pricing for the two mode without the plug in, it may be an expensive way to go, all right. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if a plug in 2 mode exceeded the price of the Volt (considering the previous 2 modes were in that ballpark). If true, sales won’t be any better than they were for the non-plug-in 2 mode, which weren’t stellar by any means. And you’re right, I also suspect CP is making the packs because GMCO doesn’t expect stellar sales of this vehicle.
If the plug in 2 mode fits the ticket for anybody out there, I suggest you don’t dawdle on getting one once they become available!
Still, sales for my Accord hybrid were terrible but I like it.
(On the bright side, can we then infer that GMCO IS expecting stellar sales of the Volt because they are going to make the packs, themselves?
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September 29th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Apparently GM has begun to make the 2-Mode available in lesser equipped vehicles, you can start to get a hint that the true premium for the 2-Mode is about $4k.. you have to dig deep in the GM website to figure this out.
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September 29th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Eestor is a scam. They built a whole factory just to fool the public. Al Gore and Colin Powell were in on it…..Its like that movie, The Sting, with Robert Redford and Paul Newman. Ian Clifford as Redford, Richard Weir as Paul Newman. I can hear an old tinny piano in my ear playing a ragtime theme song……and the Oscar for best Scam, goes to Eestor, for The Eestory…..woo-hoo!…..I just lost a bundle!!!
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Gary:
We recently moved from a 2200 sf house to a 1500 sf house. It works a lot better since there are only the two of us now (plus Jake the troll biter, of course). We could actually get by with 12-1300 sf, now that we have made the adjustment. And it does save power, no doubt about it.
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
It is very interesting to read: 52,220 Wh in a pack weighing a total of 336 pounds in a box about a 13 inch cube.
So, if this thing is for real, would it hold more charge or less charge than the current pack designed for a VOLT?
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September 29th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
The expression is “hare-brained,” not “hair brained.”
But on the other hand, I guess that explains why you have so many DooD awards to give out… you have a shelf full of ‘em.
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
It would be way more, it holds 52kwh vs 16kwh for the Volt.. and in a much smaller volume. Pretty dense little box.
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
That’s exactly what I was saying and they are building out a new facility for a maximum of 10K. This doesn’t sound like much commitment by GM and not enough volume to bring costs down for the 2-mode. This seems like a tip of the hat to goverment oversight and little more.
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
52 Kilowatts is over three times the Volts entire capacity in a far smaller package.
You’re right, CorvetteGuy, the patent text is interesting. It’s basically the same text as I read last year, but there might be details that might be different in some areas that I couldn’t discern, nor am I qualified to discern.
The 336 pound 13″ cube is also really interesting if it turns out to be reliable. 3,500 volts is ten times that of Voltec, but again, it would have to go through the rigorous testing of the GM battery labs before I’d feel comfortable with all that concentrated energy.
Their patent of it over in Europe has some story regarding something called a “patent split”. This type of situation renews some of my interest to focus some attention toward EESTOR, because that reminds me of something called a “stock split”. Although the concepts are very different, the purpose is to divide an underrepresented value or newly-perceived double value, or separate distinctive values of some sort.
Perhaps something having to do with distinct market applications such as “stationary applications” and “moving applications”. Or, perhaps something entirely different regarding the processes, and future credits to be more clearly defined by different parties who might want to pursue entirely different applications (which, if proved successful, would be far beyond what one small lab in Cedar Park Texas could accomodate with all that applications potential).
(I happened to pass by EESTOR today on my way to some training appointments, but I always forget to look that way. If proved practicable, they undoubtedly would move anyway if they haven’t already done so.)
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September 29th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Nice toy!
http://www.manualgear.com/en/in_brief-331-e-WOLF+e-2.html
Take Care
Arch
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
They used to do a stellar job of “commonizing”, and since they aren’t going to drop GMC they may be able to do it again. It wasn’t until just recently that they really dropped the ball and started making their different brands produce cars that were actually different. Hopefully we will return to a vibrant GM that makes 3 different cars under 15 different names.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
First, you don’t hear much about the problem of using fossil fuels to heat HOUSES because this site is about CARS. Most people here don’t think about HOUSES, they think about CARS.
Second, in spite of the site predilection to CARS, I have actually posted, numerous times, about how we’re wasting tax money supporting the Volt when we could be doing more good for less money reducing the use of fossil fuels used in heating and cooling HOUSES. You will probably find these posts buried under an avalanche of thumbs-down votes.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/29/news/companies/toyota_lexus_floor_mats/index.htm?postversion=2009092918
Toyota Recalls Millions.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
I’ll see your e-wolf and raise you an essence.
http://www.asianweek.com/2009/09/27/the-spin-infinitis-stunning-essence-catch-it-if-you-can/
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
You can have all the will in the world to flap your arms and fly to the moon but it is not going to happen.
Review:
1) The two-mode transmission is extremely expensive and complex. Price cuts on that will be slow to arrive.
2) The battery is expensive. Price cuts will arrive here faster than on the transmission but still slow.
3) The vehicle is larger and has considerably more mass and drag than the Volt prototype, so range for a given battery size is far smaller in the two-mode PHEV than it will be for the Volt.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
They would waste a lot of time and energy figuring out how to do an HSD that isn’t Toyota’s HSD or Fords’ HSD-like system. They might as well license it. No development cost, faster to market, license it per-unit and then you have lower fixed costs.
I’d recommend to GM that they look more closely at BAS and see what they can do to cut the cost and simplify the manufacture. The battery cost is far lower and the benefit of idle-stop is significant in the city. Add DI technology (where GM has established some leadership) and they should be able to get class-leading fuel economy, city and highway, in the more conventional car arena. This is low-hanging fruit that they should be able to harvest for a reasonable price.
The one thing they really screwed up on with the original BAS system was the failure to switch to electric A/C. That prevents BAS from activating when A/C is on. They should have done so because the Volt project was going to need electric A/C, anyway. The two-mode system probably already has it, adapt it in.
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September 29th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
$4K more for the 2-mode hybrid, that sounds about right. For example, the Prius costs around $5K more than a similarly equipped Corolla.
But that doesn’t include the plug. For the PHEV version, you’ll probably add another $4K on top of that, or $8K total.
So for a well equipped Chevy Equinox PHEV, we’re probably talking just under $30K after tax credits. Not cheap. And for that, you’ll get around 35 MPG average, if you plug in every night. I just don’t see the bang-for-buck on this.
Now let’s look at a hybrid version without a plug. A well equipped Chevy Equinox 2-mode-hybrid would probably be $26K after tax credits. For that, you’ll get around 30 MPG average (combined city/hwy), and you won’t have to plug in every night. Seems like a better deal to me.
Of course, with the Volt, we’re looking at $33K after tax credits, and 230 MPG average. And rest assured that the 230 MPG average is real. In fact, by my calculations, a typical driver should get 311 MPG average. This point will really hit home when you only have to go to the gas station every 3 months.
So to summarize my opinions:
• Regular gas engine car – Bad.
• Mild Hybrid – Bad.
• Strong Hybrid – Good.
• PHEV (Mild Plug-in) – Bad.
• EREV (Strong Plug-in) – Good.
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September 29th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Right.
I remember back in 1997, this guy at work was talking about converting all of his audio CDs onto his computer, and then downloading that onto this special portable hard drive based music player that had just come on the market. I thought – “man, what a geek”. Boy was I wrong. Within 10 years, iPods and other MP3 players have made audio CDs passé.
So that’s geek-to-chic in 10 years. Let’s hope that by 2017, the same will happen with EREVs, and regular gas engine cars will be passé.
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September 29th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
I agree, that 230 mpg is very real. The Equinox is rated 17/24 mpg.. if you up that to 35mpg combined that would be a huge jump.. only econoboxes get that kind of mileage.
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September 30th, 2009 at 12:33 am
Problem is, every vehicle they install this in sees such a small improvement in gas mileage. I laughed at the saturn models, they got 1-2 mpg more than the regular model.
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September 30th, 2009 at 3:33 am
How about an Electric Truck for all the red necks who want to go green .
http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=21784
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September 30th, 2009 at 6:12 am
That would be me. !!!
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September 30th, 2009 at 7:41 am
Then buy a Prius
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September 30th, 2009 at 7:48 am
Obvious question…will it make a profit…for GM? I’m sure LG Chem will make a profit.
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September 30th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Mike-o-Matic:
LOL!
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September 30th, 2009 at 10:34 am
N Riley & Luke:
Sorry to be so slow on this, but I tried it yesterday and it wouldn’t post. had to leave and couldn’t reboot.
My S-10 gets 25 mpg every tank, about 1/2 city and 1/2 highway. Yes, it is a 4 cyl stick, because gas mileage was/is a big issue. We have lowered it, put on a fibergalss bed cover, alloy wheels, and a BIG front air dam, all of which help a bit.
I drive it HARD, 75 mph on the freeway whenever possible, and flat on the floor up the hills around my home. If you carry a passenger, you have to go down a gear, LOL. I do coast back down however, hehehe.
It has 231 K miles on it, and is still running strong.
As to “Bonk”, my older son recently got rid of his 2 year old Tacoma because the poor gas mileage was killing him. the Tacoma has the same problem as the Colorado. It got too big and too heavy at just the wrong time.
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September 30th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Seeing as how they were designed to include retro style references to bodywork from the 1940s I presume the more modern features are the elements that are now ‘dated’?
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October 4th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
October 31st, 2009 at 8:29 am
Having driven the Equinox hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, and work closely on the Volt and the CPI batteries. The combination of these two technlogies make the most sense long term. Use the fuel cell to recharge once the battery charge is below 30%. This gets away from the internal combustion engine altogether. The difficulty comes from the lack of infrastructure to support Hydrogen refueling.
By the way, the Fuel Cell Equinox rocks! Extremely good excelleration and quiet beyond belief.
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November 20th, 2009 at 8:05 am
This is the welcome page for the dentaldoctor.us Association web site.
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