In August the DOE announced it would be awarding GM $30 million for fleet testing Chevy Volts, 500 with consumers and 125 with utilities.
When asked for specifics, GM has been silent about these plans.
However, it was just announced in a low key manner (no press release) that GM would be handing an unspecified number of Chevy Volts to two Virgina utility companies prior to the November 2010 launch.
“Part of the DOE grant is our partnership with key utilities,” said Volt vehicle line engineer Tony Posawatz. “We announced Dominion (in North Virginia) And Pepco will be getting some early vehicles and demonstration projects.”
The utility companies “will test the Volt in advance of the general public,” he said. He did not say specifically when those cars would arrive.
Expecting the testing to lead to sales, Posawatz also said “we hope Northern Virgina and the Washington DC area will be one of our first launch areas.”
For its part, Virginia’s governor has agreed to install charging stations in public areas and indeed the first one of these is already operational..
GM is nearly finished building about 80 pre-production cars. The next stage will be to build hundreds of “validation builds.” These will be assembled on part of the production Volt assembly line in the Hamtramck plant.
GM has not said where else early cars will go, nor what the consumer plans for these will be. Clearly they are targeting areas where local government has stepped up with plugin readiness initiatives including the installation of public charging stations.
This announcement represent the first of what is likely to be a series of announcement over the next several months.
So if you want to get early Volts in your area, consider talking to your local governments about installing charging stations.
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:07 am)Excellent news! GO GM!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:18 am)I wonder if I can get our town council to convert hitching posts to chargers…
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+8
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:25 am)I wonder if GM has thought their strategy all the way through. While the Volt does come with a plug and can certainly make use of public charging, the beauty in the design is that it isn’t important for the functionality of the vehicle unless charging is not available at home. Opportunity charging at work will be a great for the Volt, but beyond that I don’t see many drivers going out of their way to plug in. Perhaps if their happens to be an outlet at the most convenient parking spot, the average Volt owner will plug-in.
I must admit, I’m happy that GM is pushing in this direction. This is essential for plug-ins to fully cover the market and for them to get on par costwise with ICE vehicles sooner. The strategic problem for GM since they are posturing against BEVs, is that public charging is much more beneficial to BEVs.
+12
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:28 am)My community has charging stations for every household! Not only that but most of these charging stations are covered from the elements! We designed these stations so residents will be able to charge conveniently after work when power use is less. Lastly we did this in a way that the taxpayer didn’t see any of the infrastructure costs!
GM, please don’t ruin the perfect product by drilling into peoples heads that they need a charging infrastructure. This is your weapon against Tesla and the Nissan Leaf!
Chevy Volt, todays EV for todays infrastructure!
+3
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:37 am)You make a great argument for GM to release some preproduction volts to towns which are devoid of public charging stations to make the point that they are nice but not REQUIRED.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+5
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:38 am)Well put! Release them where no PUBLIC charging stations are around!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+4
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:46 am)I dont understand GM’s obsession with EV infrastructure, this is the basic difference between a Volt and a Leaf. They must be fishing for free publicity.
+2
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:53 am)Exactly, who’s going to be able to afford the volt initially anyway? Apartment dwellers with no garage for charging or homeowners who are well heeled enough to be able to put 220 in their garage. They need to push harder on the angle that no new infrastructure is needed. In fact no new infrastructure means no additional tax money spent to get these cars on the road. After all the tax money they’ve gotten lately they could really use that angle!
+2
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:53 am)It may be that the area around Washington DC is one they want to be “perfect” and show all the “pluses”, but your point is well taken that it may be “perfect being the enemy of the good” (enough). It’s especially troubling because it actually underplays the Volt’s biggest strength.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+2
Sep 27th, 2009 (9:15 am)This is all going to happen very quickly now. There are already dozens of Volts on the road. Soon there will be hundreds, then thousands, all in the span of the next 18 months.
In addition, countless other automakers will be offering their alternative fuel / propulsion vehicles. In a couple years, you will encounter these vehicles daily.
+2
Sep 27th, 2009 (9:28 am)Dale Evans and Roy Rodgers have been reported as very excited about the Volt. Rumor has it that they will drive up in a Chevy Volt at all the rodeos on their scheduled 2010 tour!
happy trails to you ’til we meet again.:)
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (9:32 am)His Volt will be the one with the Longhorn steer hood ornament.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-2
Sep 27th, 2009 (9:59 am)“Free publicity” , Yes! “Obsession”, No!! The placement of charging stations along the highway is an essential for the Volt to go where no other BEV has gone and use only electric. I hear you now — “No one will want to stop every 40 miles to charge up the battery.” Virginians will be able to take their Volt on a picnic to those roadside rest areas or just take advantage of fast charge stations on longer trips. The technology for 440 volt/ 5 minute chargers exists today and the location on expressways near power transmission lines makes sense to me.
As it is now Dominion Power has only installed a110 volt charge station at one rest area but plans expansion all along the expressway and will eventually install 220 volt units. DOE has been making grants to power utilities to test Plug in vehicles for some time now. Many of them have chosen the Toyota Prius. It’s great to see the Volt selected now.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (10:16 am)this must be a counter study to prove that charging stations are not really required for the VOLT.
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (10:19 am)I think the no-plug in-was the Prius-like hybrid era. No need to plug in! That was the motto because of the bad reputation BEVs had.
I think they need to differentiate from the Prius. Why else would it be so much more expensive? You have to bill it as the next new technology.
You can plug in and stick it to OPEC, bring home the troops, clean up the environment, solve global warming and toast your bread.
Sep 27th, 2009 (10:27 am)Gsned57 good points , the Volt’s main selling point is the fact that “No place to plug in No problem !!”, But on the other hand having public plug-ins will only speed the electrifying of the auto industry . Any way you go its all good . As far as Your Tax Dollars paying for pubic recharging stations , get rid of the worthless ear-marks in the 900 billion stimulus bill and reroute some of that money.
Sep 27th, 2009 (10:39 am)A large portion of Volt recharging will occur at the workplace. NGMCO calls this “opportunity charging”. Another large portion will be vampire charging during the off peak night hours.
The U.S. government has funds set aside for the expansion of the electric grid. This is a multi-decade capex spending cycle for grid infrastructure improvement. Expect builders such as Quanta Services Inc to kick into high gear to make this expanded system a reality.
NGMCO’s plan to inject over 600 Volt sedans throughout American communities is a good one. Allow real people with real routines to provide suggestions to the NGMCO engineering department. Gut feeling tells me that the control panel will be the system which requires the lion’s share of fine tuning. So much so that an alternate “traditional” dash may be offered on NGMCO’s next EREV model.
In December of 2008 the world was wondering if the low rolling resistance wheels of a Volt would ever see a freeway on ramp. The new question is, “How long will it take to get a Volt in the color of my choice?”.
=D~
+5
Sep 27th, 2009 (10:43 am)LRGV,
Sorry, but initially I think it’s counter-productive to have charging stations constantly shouting the message that “you need to charge those things”, and potential customers shrugging and saying “not for me”. GM should go with their strong distinction to BEVs – no need to stop until you need gas.
JMO,
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 27th, 2009 (10:44 am)Hmm- perhaps pushing the Volts to communities that commit to charging stations accomplishes a couple of things. First, it may be part of the deal that came with the DOE grant. Second, it may show a community’s commitment to this type of new technology, therefore increasing the odds that sales of the Volt will be successful in that area- think of it as a way to change a mindset from petrol to electric.
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (10:56 am)You know what is going to happen don’t you .
You will pull up to a store knowing that they have a 220 volt charge point only to find a normal car parked there or another car charging up and the pa system is paging the owner because the car has been there for 6 hours already and nobody knows who it belongs to .
But it ok , because you find out that you forgot your cord and left it on the roof of your car and it is somewhere between your house and the store with the “Free” charging point for shoppers.
Life is like that . Have a nice day .
Sep 27th, 2009 (10:57 am)Using my maximum torque, I could see it as a possible way to introduce a few dealerships in the service skills necessary to maintain the vehicles “in the wild”. Other than that, I still see the charging stations as the wrong message.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (11:08 am)The idea of needing public charging stations for the volt smacks of B.S. from multiple directions.
For one, a lead selling point for the Volt should be that there is no special infrastructure required. The reason you would purchase a Volt over a BEV is that you DON’T need charging stations — RIGHT?
Perhaps this is why Posawatz can’t stop wringing his hands.
+6
Sep 27th, 2009 (11:11 am)Herm
Here is something to ponder .
Why is a 100 year old corporation only going to make 10,000 Volts while all the other companies are going to make thousands more of the same type of vehicle . To me it looks like they were forced to make them for publicity sake , it sort of got out of control on them and the public wants to buy them . Now they are trying to find excuses why they can’t sell them .
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (11:16 am)We will know if it’s free publicity if they show up with giant decals on the side with some stupid ‘electrical plug’ logo on it. Gag!
+3
Sep 27th, 2009 (11:22 am)Tagamet ,
I thought that charging points were for Pure Electric vehicles , why does GM talk about charging points for the Volt ?
The whole point being that it is an Electric car that can be charged up at home .
Charging points are not needed when you have a range extender .
Maybe there are some executives at GM who don’t know how the Volt works .
-1
Sep 27th, 2009 (11:27 am)Virginia is a tobacco state, I think.
I hope you don’t mind all the cigarette burns in the upholstery.
Sep 27th, 2009 (11:30 am)Keith,
It’s not impossible that a GM exec might not realize that it doesn’t require a plug, but the odds of that AND the electric plugin mfg, AND the state/local officials not realizing that are pretty much nil IMO. I have to guess that it’s either to train the local dealerships to service the Volts in the wild, or a “follow the (grant) money” situation (or both).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 27th, 2009 (11:55 am)That too.. but perhaps they really need time to ramp up production and work out all the bugs.
I’m not worried about the $40k cost, there will be many rebates available for some time to come.. and while I think GM will break even at $40k they should start making a profit soon as mass manufacturing kicks in.
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (11:57 am)“Exactly, who’s going to be able to afford the volt initially anyway?”
Anyone that can afford a $32k car?.. and that is lots and lots of people, even apartment dwellers.
Sep 27th, 2009 (11:59 am)it may benefit a company to provide charging for its employees.. you know that if there is another gas crisis at least those guys will be able to get to work.
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (12:03 pm)Admit it, you just want to see a Voltec Camaro just spining in donuts all over the parking lot.. blue tire smoke everywhere
Sep 27th, 2009 (12:03 pm)lol, there are lots of hand waving in that video.
Sep 27th, 2009 (12:05 pm)I’ll readily admit that that’s a great picture, but probably closer to Gen VI (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-1
Sep 27th, 2009 (12:07 pm)Having public plugs means it greatly increases your chance of being able to charge and the whole selling point of the Volt is this capability (otherwise it is just another hybrid like the Prius), so it makes sense to maximize this usage, esp considering the next step from the Volt may be a battery only approach (which the Volt is doing its part to transition/prepare for). Also this is currently for utility companies so they will have to install their own plugs too.
Sep 27th, 2009 (12:14 pm)Trust me, when you get your Volt you won’t do something like that unless you are completely stupid, esp if you get into the routine of charging your car; it’ll be second nature.
And a ICE car won’t likely be left there for 6 hours. All they have to do is tow the car away at owner expense (at least that’s how they do it here in CA). If plug-in adoption accelerates, they might even start fining ICE cars who park in plug-in spots. On a related note though, I wonder how it will happen when BEVs and PHEV/EREVs go to market. BEVs should have priority to charge, since they actually need the charge. Maybe they will have some BEV-only spots and some spots for general plug-ins/BEVs.
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (12:28 pm)Who is going to foot the electric bill at the charging stations? Taxpayers? Or the driver/owner of the car?
It sounds like taxpayers, which if so, is going to create a backlash against EV’s.
There’s nothing like a free lunch. Except when you have to pay for someone else’s, then the idea sucks.
+2
Sep 27th, 2009 (12:51 pm)Hmmm … which company is making thousands more than 10K PHEV ?
—
Why is a 100 year old corporation only going to make 10,000 Volts while all the other companies are going to make thousands more of the same type of vehicle .
—
Sep 27th, 2009 (12:56 pm)Or stop spending trillions of dollars securing mid east oil so that sheikhdoms and big oil can make billions in profit.
Sep 27th, 2009 (12:58 pm)A lot of apartment dwellers will be able to afford it but there are millions of homeowners that won’t need to worry about infrastructure. GM shouldn’t confuse the message to homeowners who don’t need new infrastructure. With a Volt you can charge at home and have no range anxiety
Sep 27th, 2009 (1:08 pm)If you don’t have an obscene mortgage for your $475,000 900 sqft compton dream home with ‘lectricity then clearly you can’t afford a Volt. This is the subsidized poster child of Gob. Motors and those who are already on the federal dole, with complex mortgages they didn’t understand when they got them, through failed banking institutions should be given first grab at the Volt. I say, only sell them to Realtors and Investment Bankers for the first 10,000 units.
-2
Sep 27th, 2009 (1:22 pm)You just described GM, BOA, C, AIG and the Fiat/Chrysler fiasco. Why is there no backlash against the Volt/GM here? GM isn’t spending their money developing the Volt, they ran out of that and had to go to bankruptcy court to emerge as ‘New GM’, I think the ‘loans’ we gave to GM are all tied to ‘Old GM’, so pretty sure we won’t be getting that money back (fortunately the fed. gov. does have a controlling interest in the New GM, which totally won’t fail). 40% of your federal tax dollars go to pay the interest on our national debt, which we are now growing faster than ever before.
GM sells fewer cars and trucks now than at this time last year, and the trend for sales is lower. Even with CARS their numbers sucked. They’ll be back asking for more ‘loans’ soon enough, and 99% of the posters here will cheer hazzah when we give them another $30,000,000,000 we don’t have.
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (1:56 pm)Agreed jake. The utility companies power lines usually follow the highway or visa versa: so putting charging points along the highway further enables their fleet of Volts. Power Companies would rather use electricity so power their fleets than petroleum. They will be among the first to install super-fast chargers
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (2:00 pm)Texas,
add one more to that list of benifits: create new jobs!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (2:05 pm),”I wonder how it will happen when BEVs and PHEV/EREVs go to market. ”
___________________________________________________
With fast charge stations even that won’t be a problem. It will be just like at the gas stations we are using now.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (2:09 pm)As usual, the need for local guvvies to be seen as “doing something
constructive” is likely to backfire. These people are betting that the EEStor supercapacity won’t work, for if it does, the current Volt is doomed, as are any charging stations that lack high output capabilities, which I’m certain is true of all these being installed.
When thingsa re in such a state of flux, there is no logical reason to rush ahead doing siomething like this, which will have, at most, the most trivial effect imaginable, given that the Volt can take care of any unforeseen mileage requirements. Another example of how public pressure leads local officials to make less than intelligent choices with taxpayer money. I doubt that any of these goofballs can even spell EESotr, the bullet that’s got their name of it.
-1
Sep 27th, 2009 (2:21 pm)Tag,
GM will be selling BEV’s in the near future too. There is a need to get a charging station infrastructure in place as rapidly as possible. We need to end sending our hard earned wages abroad just to fuel our cars. Every additional charging station has a positive effect on cutting the deficit. Those saved dollars will enable the country to overcome its debt, and channel all that money into new jobs here at home. The range extending thyme is not being overshadowed by encouraging charging station infrastructure. I think its great that Dominion Power is installing these charging points and allowing us to use them gratis!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (2:28 pm)Jeff J, It just bothers me when betterplace and now too often GM talk about the “NEED” for public charging stations. EREV’s can work perfectly with no range anxiety without new infrastructure. That’s their biggest draw over BEV’s. If all we were talking about were BEV’s I’d be all for charging stations and investing in infrastructure (My main goal is to get off foreign oil EVNow).
To a point I’ve been stressing lately
If every car were to magically change to an EREV overnight nobody would be left stranded nor have any limitations on charging or filling up with todays infrastructure.
Talking about new infrastructure stresses the idea that the switch to EV’s is a long way out and is going to cost big tax payer dollars. If we switch to EREV’s today the market will develop quick charge stations based on a sound business case and from there we’ll see BEV’s take hold and oil slowly die out. We dont’ need an Apollo style push. We have the technology today GM just needs to start marketing it correctly
Sep 27th, 2009 (2:30 pm)The “40 mile” range and CS mode was that plugging in anywhere other than your home was a major selling point, making the topic of needing public charging stations totally unnecesary. If fact, it would have been considered spin from the competition to even address that. Now, GM itself is.
Could it be that they pushed the “green halo” message so hard it made Volt slip right out of the minds of mainstream buyers? After all, the $40k price is so far outside of middle-market that it’s a pretty tough sell on its own.
Of course, this idea does support the benefit of reduced battery capacity…
Sep 27th, 2009 (2:53 pm)The faster they can get those charging stations the better. I just hope those stations can charge faster than Volt capability. I believe the Volt has limited Fast Charging which is a real shame as Lithium is certainly capable of rapid 30 minute or less charging. Also the more charging stations the faster they can dump that heavy dead weight called an ICE. woot.
Sep 27th, 2009 (2:57 pm)It’s about time they get some in the hands of “independent” testers. Well at least more objective than the lowly GM engineer. This should yield some quality feedback that has been sorely missing from Volt testing. If this is really true GM just might be changing…but still doubt it.
Sep 27th, 2009 (3:00 pm)NANS = No Ashtray No Sale
That Volt better have a place to safely store the residue from my cancer sticks. I am serious, this is a deal breaker for me.
-1
Sep 27th, 2009 (3:01 pm)No, I think the Volt is designed as a ‘charge overnight at home’ electric commute/errands car, with a gasoline range extender (a regular series hybrid after the plug-in charge has been used up) for longer trips.
*Public* plugs are just icing on the cake. It is the home plug-in that is crucial for the Volt.
A workplace plug is nice, if your commute is close to 40 miles one way. I still think a 50′ heavy duty extension cord through the building window to a regular outlet is an OK way to charge at work, if the parking lot is close enough to the outlet. No need for special “chargers”.
Sep 27th, 2009 (3:09 pm)“Fast” charge is relative. 30 minutes is much faster than 8 hours, but if 3 cars are waiting for the charger at a ‘gas station’ when you pull in, you’re looking at 1.5 to 2 hours waiting time (you don’t know how far along the charging car is).
This is not quite how pumping gasoline works now.
Getting fast charge times down to a minute or two is very difficult without overheating the batteries, etc… I know they are working on much faster charging batteries, but I’m not sure how they rate on lifetime, energy density, safety, etc…
I wouldn’t expect 2 minute charging in less than 10-15 years.
-3
Sep 27th, 2009 (3:11 pm)Another $30 million dollar grant. Isn’t that sweet. Remember everybody that the Volt is really an $80 BILLION DOLLAR CAR . Without $80 billion dollars of taxpayer money there would be no Volt. I guess after raping the American public for untold billions and spending it like drunken sailors they need to go back to the well one more time so they can properly test their cars. This could happen only in America.
Sep 27th, 2009 (3:24 pm)Glad to hear GM will be getting some of these to institutions for testing. But why do I have the sinking feeling that when it comes time to release the other five hundred cars for testing, they will only go to GM employees’ families and famous people?
-3
Sep 27th, 2009 (3:25 pm)Question: Why is it called a Volt ?
Answer: Simple, VOLT is an acronym for:
Very
Outdated
Lithium
Technology
Consider yourself schooled by the Professor (aka Bus Driver).
Yes, I worked very hard to pay for my PhD. And I keep it in a special place. It is stored in my shed out back. Why you ask.
Because that’s where you are supposed to store your Post hole Digger.
+2
Sep 27th, 2009 (3:30 pm)I can assure you the EEStor energy packs are real. You may know them from their screen name.
The Flux Capacitor
Sep 27th, 2009 (3:35 pm)Okay it looks like GM is handing these Volts out like candy to Big Utility and Big Government and Big City but let’s not forget us small town folks. We still buy lotsa cars and that Volt is looking pretty fine and i be figurin on getting my hands on one right shortly.
Sep 27th, 2009 (3:43 pm)I saw that they will be providing a few hundred Volts for the public to test-drive in the coming months.
I live in rural Missouri and do a lot of highway driving (avg speed of 55-65 mph). I would LOVE to be one of those who test-drive the Volt for a few months and see how it performs under those conditions.
The Volt is an absolutely incredible vehicle and I hope it does well for GM!
Sep 27th, 2009 (3:48 pm)I still think a 50′ heavy duty extension cord through the building window to a regular outlet is an OK way to charge at work, if the parking lot is close enough to the outlet. No need for special “chargers”.
———————
You might get away with this for a while in a small company. But eventually the company safety director will put the kibosh on an extension cord run outside of the building 8x5x52.
Sep 27th, 2009 (3:50 pm)Geronimo,
we are not taling about 30 minute fast charge but rather under 15 minutes and likely around 5 minutes. One such company, you might look at, is Altairnano:
http://www.altairnano.com/profiles/investor/fullpage.asp?f=1&BzID=546&to=cp&Nav=0&LangID=1&s=0&ID=10724
There batteries might or exceed all the criteria you mention above.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:02 pm)John, 32 miles charge sustaining mode if you are a lead foot and ride around with the windows down and the AC at max.. I WILL get closer to 60 mile range and the average driver will get about 40..
You probably will do better than 40 too.
+2
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:08 pm)LRGV,
I’m all for getting off foreign oil., but INITIALLY I don’t see the charging stations in GM’s IMMEDIATE best interest. FIRST let’s get the Volt’s out there and advertising themselves. Then the charging stations will have less risk of painting the Volt as needing them to function.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:11 pm)EVNow,
Excellent point!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:12 pm)“I WILL get closer to 60 mile range…”
_____________
8kwh available/ 60 miles -= 133wh/mile in a 3,500 lb car . . . yea right.
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:18 pm)You would almost get the idea that GM does not want everyone to switch over to electrics.
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:21 pm)He meant by 2010.. by 2011 I think we will see electrics in the 100k range yearly and growing fast.
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:33 pm)10-15 minute FULL 100% charges are routine with A123 cells, and they are on the market now. I’m not sure about their new prismatic cells.. if they are made the same way they should be able to handle it.
http://www.a123systems.com/products
the 26650 format M1 cell can do over 1000 cycles at 100% DOD.. if you babied them that would probably increase. It has been on the market for some years now, they mention a “typical” fast charge of 14 minutes and have a very high power output. The Hymotion pack for the Prius uses these cells.
They also offer a 20Ah prismatic cell (thin rectangular format) intended for automotive applications.
Latest news on A123, regarding settling the patent dispute
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a0Kg.kW9OuMw
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:35 pm)GSNed57,
Well put and my thoughts exactly.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:40 pm)Herm,
I too see the benefit of employer provided chargers as a benefit just the way some have IRAs or day-care. Initially , I’d love to see the preproduction volts go to individuals vs company fleets though because the population would be much more diverse.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:45 pm)carcus1,
Perhaps it has more to do with GM somehow making money through it’s association with the charging station providers. I have no info that they DO, but it’d explain why they might be supporting charging stations for a vehicle that doesn’t require them. OTOH, it may just be pushing for infrastructure that will support future models that are pure BEVs.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:46 pm)Well if public charging is the main criterion then San Diego should be the destination for some of the early build Volts. As I understand it, the DOE issued a $100M grant to eTec to build 2500 hundred chargers in each of the five states which will get 1000 Leafs in 2010. California gave a matching grant of $8M to build more. So as it stands San Diego, as the sole market in CA getting the Leaf, will end up with 1000 Leafs and probably 3500 public charging stations.
The $100M eTec grant also includes installing 5000 home charging stations for each person/family/persons buying a Leaf.
Probably of more than passing interest to GM, Tesla, Fisker, and other companies building EVs, the public charging stations will support other EVs from manufacturers other than Nissan, probably through the J1711 plug. No idea if each charging station will charge more than one vehicle at a time.
3500 charging stations strikes me as a very large number. It will be interesting to see if this many stations more or less satiates the demand for public charging.
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:49 pm)stuart22,
I don’t doubt that the initial infrastructure of the stations may at least in part be supported with grants (which I oppose, btw), but the electricity bill can easily be charged to the users’ electricity accounts.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-1
Sep 27th, 2009 (4:57 pm)I’d say it’s the publicity more than anything.
GM knows the press is going to be swarming around these charging stations from time to time, and they want to be perceived as being in the mix or as being technology leaders.
This is Pose-a-what’s closing point at the end of the vid (2:40) — and the real purpose of the Volt (imo).
Contrast this to Aptera’s approach. If they get the 2e rolling out of Best Buy at $25,000 a pop, there’s going to be a line of customers out the door and down the block waiting to buy — mark my words on this one.
Sep 27th, 2009 (5:10 pm)MArcus,
I know that you are not alone in your concern that “The 500″ will go to mukkity-muks vs the general population (Lyle being the exception, as he should be). Since there’s nothing we can do about it, however, it’s not worth worrying about.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 27th, 2009 (5:16 pm)DonC,
For a State in such sorry fiscal condition (just like Penna) Calif sure has a lot of “pull” with the government – or is it just me?
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (5:17 pm)I have no clue why GM is placing so much emphasis on infrastructure that is not needed. There must be some financial reason that they are placing Volts where there are charging stations.
I am thinking that their best and greatest sales placement is with people that don’t really need charging stations. In other words, people with garages and local gas stations.
It really doesn’t matter in the long run. Just get them bad-boys out in the hands of the real testers!
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (5:18 pm)You know Herm, I never gave much though to that and just attributed their mistakes to poor management decisions. But you may be right. All I know is that as an Engineer and an American that wants to see his country energy independent this car gets me more excited than any. From everything I’ve been reading on this site for the last 2+ years the engineers are realy thinking about everything and doing a very good job. GM management, don’t mess it up.
Lyle, the next time you talk to management could you please ask them why they’re making the mistake of stressing new infrastructure so much! The Volt doesn’t need new infrastructure and its architecture could eliminate our dependence on foreign oil (not on domestic in the short term). It drives me crazy to see them trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory (A bit like the detroit lions)! Although even the detroit Lions have to win sometime in 3 years (I’d hate to be a redskins fan today)
+1
Sep 27th, 2009 (5:20 pm)What will you do if suddenly the price of oil goes back up to over $4.00? The fragile recovery from the recession we are in, will shatter in millions of people will be struggling to get from day to day. Maybe your rich enough to afford to pay through the nose for that gas. But that won’t save you when the price of everything you need to buy skyrockets. We need an option in place for that contingency. By getting a charging infrastructure in place rapidly, we also enable drivers to use less gasoline. In July, we spent approximately $25.2 billion on foreign oil! In one month, billion! The sooner we get charging infrastructure the better. I will be among the first to use those highway charging points. And Yes we go need an Apollo style push from the government. A new smart grid, new transmission lines for wind and solar farms electricity to urban areas, etc., etc., etc.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (5:23 pm)I’ve always enjoyed your posts Tag so thanks. Honestly I think Statik needs to do another guest post to interogate … interview GM brass to figure out why the hell they’re pushing so hard on infrastructure. The public is sick of insane bailouts and increased spending and the Volt doesn’t’ require any of it (well anymore than’s already been done that is (: ).
Sep 27th, 2009 (5:24 pm)And your point is?
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (5:31 pm)Media, PA spent $0 on public charging stations but over 80% of the households have garages that contain private charging stations. We also have a few owner operated petrol stations that I don’t believe were subsidised (well the fuel is but not the station). Didn’t cost the taxpayer a dime. That’s why the volt is so perfect today and not 10 years from now when infrastructure is in place.
Don, I think it’s important for charge stations to show up but GM is the last company that should be telling people they need to be installed for EV’s to work.
Personally I’d like to see the volt go on sale, be a huge success for people who can charge at home. Then others will demand that their landlords and businesses install charge stations. Enterprising individuals will figure out an inexpensive way to put charging stations in public places that doesn’t require tax dollars and actually makes money. All the while battery tech gets better and the EV only range continues to go up or batteries get cheaper. Let’s not put the cart before the horse. This horse takes electric and gas so we can electrify the fleet TODAY.
Sep 27th, 2009 (5:34 pm)We should see the demo by midnight Wednesday….
Sep 27th, 2009 (5:38 pm)There was plenty of backlash when Bush and Obama gave them monthly “loans” to keep going just to put them in bankruptcy and give even more money. Lyle put out a survey and most of us said let em go bankrupt. But what’s done is done. I could take it out on the Volt, but the volt and fisker Karma are the only cars that can reduce our foreign oil needs without new infrastructure.
+2
Sep 27th, 2009 (5:42 pm)DoNotMessWithMe,
can I mess with you a little, just a little?
No.1 The Volt isn’t the only car involved.
No. 2 Having the public test this new technology is cool.
No. 3 $80 billion is only a loan o be paid back with interest.
No 4 The United States is a Debtor-in-possession and as such, if GM does go under, has preference in distribution of assets during a bankruptcy proceeding.
No 5 For the U.S. to end its addiction to foreign oil that cost the U.S. $25.2 Billion addition to the deficit in July alone, we need GM to produce cars like the Volt and the Spark.
I hope that this doesn’t mess with you to much. Just trying to point out GM is one of the few companies that contribute to the goal of millions of electric vehicles on the road by the year 2020.
Happy trails to you ’til me meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (6:25 pm)I quit smoking 10 years ago. I just find it humerous that Virginia was chosen to get them first. What happened to the announcement 2 months ago about New York and San Francisco?
Sep 27th, 2009 (6:49 pm)Herm,
I’ve been following there progress too. I mentioned Altairnano because in their 50aH data sheet, they give information on temp specifications. I have not been able to find similar data for A123
Large con(fi)guration choices
• Greater temperature versatility with ranges of -40º Celsius to 55º Celsius
• Increased level of power (3 times more powerful than existing batteries)
• Long cycle life (exceeding 5,000 charges)
• Fast charge/discharge rates (within 10 minutes)
• Higher levels of operational abuse tolerance than existing batteries
http://www.avinc.com/resources/press_release/aerovironment_achieves_electric_vehicle_fast_charge_milestone/
Hopefully, A123 will be able to negotiate an out of court settlement. GM has considered them a possible Volt battery cell supplier at GEN2.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (7:21 pm)Calif sure has a lot of “pull” with the government – or is it just me?
It does account for something like 12% of federal tax revenues. Maybe that’s it. Anyway, CA was just one of five states, the others being OR, AZ, WA, and TN (which together probably don’t account for 12%). The biggest difference is that in the other states you have several municipalities participating so the 2500 charging stations get spread out over more cities. As to why certain cities were selected, it was a function of which utilities stepped up and agreed to partner with Nissan.
On the subject of utilities, I will say that CA (and NY and some other states) are way ahead of the rest of the country in electric utility regulation. Most places have rate systems that reward electric utilities based on how many kWh they sell. CA set up a system that allows the electric utilities to profit regardless of how many kWh they sell, and in fact pays them fractionally more if they get the rate base to buy fewer kWh. (The distribution charges are separated from the kWh charge, with the latter being set at cost). In those states that have gone this route the electric consumption per person is about 20% less than in the other states where utilities get paid more if they sell more kWh.
Funny how the market takes you where you want to go when you set up the right incentives.
Sep 27th, 2009 (7:32 pm)I agree with you. Yes it seems like GM wouldn’t be nearly as interested in public charging as those manufacturers coming out with BEVs. Also, in support of your point, the Volt can’t really accept a fast charge like the Leaf, so I’m not sure how helpful the chargers will be. It may be that GM is interested in having the charging stations available for people who don’t have garages. This would be an interesting question to ask of Posawatz.
On the other hand, if you want to find out, a city with 3500 charging stations might be a good place to find the answer.
Sep 27th, 2009 (7:33 pm)DonC,
Gee, where do the incentives come from? (that’s one of those “rhetoricals” – I think I know the answer).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 27th, 2009 (7:35 pm)AMEN!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 27th, 2009 (7:56 pm)No garage? Apartment living? How about a 100′ 110v extension cord?
Much of the EV recharge load on the electric infrastructure will be taken care of with individual household upgrades. Switch to coil light bulbs, a smaller water heater, unplug your cell phone charger when not in use, and in time buy a more efficient refrigerator. These easy changes will save $20-$40 per month on your electric bill.
By periodically charging your Volt at home. As well as opportunity charging away from home. You will see a refueling net cost of zero dollars. And in some cases a positive fuel cost cash flow.
Coleman Cable 02509 100-Feet 12/3 SJTW Extension Cord, Orange ($49.17)
yes we can?
=D~
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:18 pm)The difference is:
Without GM, we can continue to spent say $25 billion a month (July – $25.2 billion) for foreign oil,
or
We could give them another $300 billion ( a little more than a months foreign oil) to get us off this stupid addiction to oil that represent a huge part of our deficit.
Just kidding with you’all!:)
It will take time for the Volt and other EVs to make an impact on foreign oil. IMHO, the sooner the better.
As far as the loans, some of Old GM loans were recovered: I believe one figure I saw was for $1.5 billion. There were other amounts mentioned in the report. If my memory is correct, they were only in the $millions. Going forward from the bankruptcy, the government is a DIP – debtor in possession and has extreme leverage over the company and preference over other creditors. During a meeting with the Panel staff on August 11, 2009, Mr Bloom stated: ““likely scenarios involve a reasonable probability of repayment of substantially all of the government funding for new GM and new Chrysler, and much lower recoveries for the initial loans.” the Government Oversite Panel believes that the New GM’s stock will have to reach record levels for the taxpayer to break even through the governement share of stock in New GM. The Panel admits that Treasury may have other ways of recovering the taxpayers money but has not explained how.
The way,I see it, IMHO, GM is an enabler of ending addiction to foreign oil. An addiction which becomes a major contributor to national debt. There is no better time than right now to “Buy American” “Buy A VOLT” Buy a GM Car” Buy a Chrysler Car” Buy a Ford Car” But above all buy an American made vehicle. GM has vastly improved in quality and has its new 2 month guarantee. When GM turns the corner on the Volt, and mass produces it, it will have an affordable price, it should be the new one car for every American. AND THE END OF FOREIGN OIL DEPENDENCE! Amen.
If another American OEM produces an EV of any type, it too should be a potential sale based on the buyers needs and quality of the vehicle. But buy an American product and an EV if you can afford one. GM will offer a pure BEV in North America!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:19 pm)The good news is the infrastructure costs for a charging station are much less than the infrastructure costs for a fuel station. So even if it takes more time to charge, many more recharge stations could be made available for the cost of one refueling station.
Anyway this is good news for the folks in Virginia.
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:25 pm)Sounds like GM does not want the range extender to come on, except for the most dire of emergencies…
Political reasons? I guess I am glad I have a Prius for those long weekend drives. I do not want to start up that evil range extender.
You have a Volt and you use the range extender? How could you!
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:28 pm)Dominion Power will not be charging the public for the use of their charging points during the fleet test. It is gratis to the public.
Tag, I have read reports that utilities may very well charge to the user’s as you indicate.
Fair well my friend and Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:33 pm)Preteen boys will be disgusted by such blatant propaganda.
Preteen girls will be discussing that new Electric Range.
Politicians will smile at your tax dollar at work…
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:39 pm)Dave K, You are right on that, I will let GM build it. The only thing I want to have say in is the color, and maybe hubcaps.
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:40 pm)The Patient Department is supposed to issue their third tomorrow, September 29! The press release, they were talking about releasing at the end of the month, may involve a report of testing by the Underwriters Laboratory. Definitely know something by midnight Wednesday. Or we will all be booing them, not just some skeptics but a number of former well wishers. But it does look like something definitive considering:
“We have received a request to certify EEStor’s product,” said Priya L. Tabaddor, PhD, Global Energy Services, Underwriters Laboratories, Inc.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:41 pm)Cool, It would be hot in Japan as a drifter…
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:47 pm)Its great to see your post here BadassMofo.
GM is most likely playing it safe with their battery technology to ensure the battery warantee will be supportable. Down the road, we may see GEN 2 Volts that charge in under ten minutes that will probably be an option at time of purchase.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+2
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:48 pm)And how many billions does it cost the government to subsidize the price of gas???
Sep 27th, 2009 (8:56 pm)Happy Trails, Happy Trails, Happy Trails, Happy Trails, Happy Trails,
Something to be printed on the Volt hubcap.
Good Karma….
Sep 27th, 2009 (9:10 pm)Nissan has targeted five U.S. cities.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/090807-Nissan-Leaf-Electric-Car-On-Sale-Next-Year/
-and-
http://seattlecan.org/
DOE is just putting the money where there is a commitment to utilize EV’s. The Seattle area will get 2550 charging stations and the neat thing about those home charging stations for those who buy the Nissan Leaf is, they will be 220 volt!
http://www.examiner.com/x-17874-Seattle-Green-Living-Examiner~y2009m8d6-Leaf-grant-money-to-Seattle-Electric-Shocking-2550-electric-car-charging-stations-to-be-built
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (9:26 pm)Nissan has entered into agreements with five cities to export from Japan 5000 Leaf BEV’s.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/090807-Nissan-Leaf-Electric-Car-On-Sale-Next-Year/
It looks like Seattle, San Diego, Phoenix, and two others; one in each of Oregon and Tennessee
DOE is funding construction of charging stations by Electric Transportation Engineering Corporation.
http://www.etecevs.com/home.php
Nissan vehicles are pure EV and would need the infrastructure over a large area to overcome road rage that owners would otherwise experience. As GM will be building and selling BEV, they also want to see the infrastructure for charging stations.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 27th, 2009 (9:54 pm)Lots of good posts today. (Just got back from my 3 day vacation).
Utilities getting Volts firstly, it seems to me, is the right thing to do because they are the ones who will be “refueling” Voltec vehicles and they must be able to study the Volts’ needs.
Also, as “democratized” as GM mentioned it is, it is likely that the discussions with the Governor (which apparently yielded a lot of co-operation), was meant at least for possibly a set of infrastructures (National Electric Building Code) to standardize the procedures (fairly economically-distributed in our democracy) for automatic (so to speak) installations of charging stations for places like Condo’s and Apartment residences (no mention of who pays). BUT, the money to be made on that overnight electricity ought to offset that cost quite a bit if there is a very long term commitment to purchase 8 or more kilowatts of power every night for 8 to 10 years.
This is the very simple reason why the utilities must be provided the opportunities with the first Volts, so that they can actually PLAN the real load factors, logistics, the fielding of a trained workforce, and on and on.
That’s what I got out of the story above. Everything GM is doing is right on the most highly logical track from how I see it.
GM upper management is obviously working day and night to make this all happen for us. Often, these small descriptive explanations don’t sometimes get “detailed-out” for us, because GM is right in the middle and thick of it all.
It is GM who is motivating electrification infrastructure work, and no one else. Not the Asians, Not Ford Motor, Not Chrysler, Not the Euros.
It is GM doing ALL this hard work ALL the way.
The open mindedness of Governors to proactively act is important because GM can not do the infrastructure work, nor is that GM’s job, it is the Utilities’ job (and make that income).
History will look back on these exciting times and judge how we view all these masterful developments of GM for America.
Governments are excruciatingly-slow to come to understand who is the best for a given technological need. Government officials are not technical. Technicians (as we all know), do not always present things in the most diplomatic fashion, (because we must always look for “what could go wrong with this”, and, well, bluntly say so without hedging, or someone’s car has something really expensive in it that gets destroyed on them).
GM is doing everything in perfect time, and that impresses me every time something is posted here regarding what GM is doing.
If only more Governors would get comfortable and go to Detroit and talk to GM and ask how they can also help (you Honorable members of all the Legislatures could also fire off some emails and ask as well). If Governors are “mired down” in worry about budgets, and, can not go to Detroit in person to begin to learn what can be done to set up these VERY SIMPLE infrastructures, then,
***********************************************************************
you are TOTALLY incompetent to be a Governor. PERIOD!
***********************************************************************
(Chances of your re-election could greatly depend on your participation regarding all this as it becomes a heated up topic at the next election, I might add. A simple test is what this is as to your competence, to do what? require all utility exec to learn about these infrastructure requirements and then legislatively act on their behalf and our behalf. It will not cost the governments when it is done correctly!!!)
Sep 27th, 2009 (9:57 pm)The Tesla Roadster consumes 135wh/mile at a speed of 18mph, so for sure the Volt can get 59.3 miles of range using 8kwh of energy. Note the Roadster is a powerful sports car, capable of 0-60 in 4 secs.
Sep 27th, 2009 (10:04 pm)“It is GM who is motivating electrification infrastructure work, and no one else. Not the Asians, Not Ford Motor, Not Chrysler, Not the Euros.”
_________________________
I swear Dan. Sometimes you can really spew it out.
Sep 27th, 2009 (10:11 pm)I suppose, . . . if you really babied it at low speeds you might get that far.
I just don’t think it ‘s very realistic consumption in a day to day scenario. Not in a crowded and high speed suburban/city environment many commuters have to deal with.
Sep 27th, 2009 (10:26 pm)Sometimes it just seems some people have this need to expect that magically everything GM says is needed will be there to the umpteenth level of perfection, or, think they can do something really bad like use extension cords, and on and on.
I don’t take for granted what GM is doing because I’ve been working with their designs for 40 years. Some others do take GM’s efforts for granted or in bad faith.
It is hard enough as it is for GM to get all this done, and their job is impressive to me now, but will only be impressive to others only at some time in a retrospective future.
Sep 27th, 2009 (10:37 pm)What’s interesting is that the vast majority think incentives are what the “other guy” gets. They get something else, which of course is totally deserved.
Generally rural residents get more “incentives” than urban residents and “Red” states get more than “Blue” states, so the apparent rule is that you can identify the areas which get the most incentives by how many people in an area complain about them.
Sep 28th, 2009 (1:26 am)Well I hope that is sorted out as you mention. That is to say, users pay at the (pump) plug. I’m sure it wouldn’t be difficult to figure out a method to charge the user. But will it be done? And how? Those are my questions.
Dominion Power not charging the public for use of the charging points is not the way things must be in the long term. Joe Taxpayer is going to get smart one day and be upset that his rates have increased to cover the electricity DP is giving out for nothing.
Sep 28th, 2009 (3:34 am)Agreed. We are coming up on the true dawn of the electrification of the automobile. Prius and Insight were kind of on their own.
Many car makers are in now. Thank you GM.
Sep 28th, 2009 (5:13 am)I see the electrification of the automobile coming much faster if we start with EREV’s and work incrementally to get battery tech and quick charging out in the world. I’m not against battery research and quick charging I just don’t see the point in trying to say we can’t electrify the auto practically untill those things happen. When GM says that they only hinder the process because people will become disillusioned thinking we need to spend trillions and won’t be able to travel long distance without charging ever 100 miles.
+1
Sep 28th, 2009 (7:29 am)Red HHR … the Volt wheels look pretty good. Have a had the chance to view the Volt twice up close and have taken about 100 photos. The wheels I saw were 18″ although the stock wheels will be 17′s. The overall feel of the Volt is comparable to a BMW. The underside, although not production during the photo taking, was mostly smooth. Similar to the belly of the original VW Bug. I haven’t posted photos as they may not provide an honest image of the final production Volt underside.
=D~
Sep 28th, 2009 (7:38 am)I am in Virginia Beach and would be more then happy to accept a test vehicle. Dominion, if you are listening drop me a line.
R/Jim
Sep 28th, 2009 (9:04 am)Again, it seems like GM is saying that the Chevy Volt requires an infrastructure of charging stations to operate. This is nonsense. All you have to do is plug it in at night. I know that some apartment dwellers will have trouble, but these same people will not be able to just run over to the nearest charging station and plug in after waiting in line. Get the Volt out to the public and let us worry about the rest. Charging stations will follow. If you don’t have access to a plug at home or work, don’t buy one until you have access. Simple as that.
Sep 28th, 2009 (11:48 am)Yep, charging stations are the death nail for the Volt. Make the ICE just one big paper weight that follows you everywhere.
+4
Sep 28th, 2009 (11:58 am)Apparently Chevy still doesn’t understand that the single biggest marketing advantage for EREVs is that they DO NOT NEED any additional infrastructure. They integrate just fine into existing cities and neighborhoods. If they keep up this BS they will cripple the whole EREV product space by spreading the perception that they require special treatment. I will say this loud and hope someone listens:
DEAR GM:
THE CHEVY VOLT IS NOT A SPECIAL NEEDS VEHICLE. PLEASE DO NOT CRIPPLE THIS CAR IN THE PUBLIC’S MIND. IT WILL DESTROY YOUR SALES AND EVERYONE ELSE’S.
Sep 28th, 2009 (7:40 pm)What am I missing? I played the video over and over! Posawitz talks about charging the Volt at your home and state that GM wants to be sure that home charging stations are being installed correctly. Only the Dominion Power CEO talks about charging point and infrastructure. It is the likes of Nissan with its Leaf BEV importing 5000 to five cities and those cities utilizing DOE funding for charging stations to do a study on the charging practices of EV owners on their affect on the grid, etc.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.