AND 
Spotlight on the EDTA: Live Chat With President
The Electric Drive Transportation Association (EDTA) is according to their website:
The preeminent industry association dedicated to advancing electric drive as a core technology on the road to sustainable mobility. As an advocate for the adoption of electric drive technologies, EDTA serves as the unified voice for the industry and is the primary source of information and education related to electric drive. Our membership includes a diverse representation of vehicle and equipment manufacturers, energy providers, component suppliers and end users.
It sounds like the organization shares our common goals and is in a position to help make them happen.
The EDTA was first formed in 1989 when EVs were little more than a dream, and like us they are thrilled to see the radical transformation underway in the US (and global) auto industry.
Brian Wynne is the President of the EDTA and will be participating in a live chat in the box below at 2PM Eastern time. This will be simulcast on many EV-ralted websites. He will be taking our questions about the progression and future of electrification of the automobile and proving some answers.
Brian has written the following introduction on GM’s website:
Does it seem that suddenly everyone is talking about electric vehicles? Well, that’s because they are. But it’s not a sudden development in the automotive world. At the Electric Drive Transportation Association (EDTA), our members have been pushing technology boundaries, building business models and busting myths for a long time. Electric drive is not a fad; in fact, we’ve been at this for 20 years. And, of course, some of the earliest successful automobiles were electric!
But there is good reason why this is suddenly getting lots more attention. Not only has there been a wave of exciting vehicle announcements from manufacturers (check out a list of electric vehicle announcements on our website), the federal government just invested $2.4 billion in electric drive vehicle and component manufacturers, battery suppliers, infrastructure providers, and training facilities. This reflects a national recognition that electrification of transportation can help us achieve our energy, environment and economic goals. It also reflects how far the industry has already come. We are prepared to leverage the investment and take electric drive into the mainstream.
When hybrid technology breakthroughs made commercially viable grid-connected vehicles a possibility, EDTA hosted the first plug-in hybrid vehicle workshop in 2003–for an overflow crowd. In the short time since then, electric drive has come a long way, with the major automakers (and many start ups) developing and testing electric drive vehicles. Companies are going about the challenge in different ways: some are focusing on battery electric vehicles, several are moving on plug-in hybrids, and others are working on battery electrics with range extenders. Many manufacturers continue to work diligently on fuel cell vehicles. This demonstrates the flexibility of electric drive technology, and the innovative spirit which is needed to address the myriad of consumer tastes, and the variety of commercial vehicles in the fleet.
We all know that it has been a roller coaster of a year for the automotive industry, with the recession hurting every aspect of the value chain, from parts suppliers to consumers. But the industry has weathered economic and technology setbacks before and we are positioned to come out on top of this one. Vehicle electrification is not just a national policy goal; it is the foundation of our members’ business strategies. It is not just vehicle manufacturers that are bringing innovation to this game. Electric utility companies and component manufacturers are also investing time and treasure toward a common objective.
EDTA has been a steady voice for 20 years. Today’s unprecedented attention and investment might seem like an overnight success story, but this industry’s success has been years in the making. More to the point, we will be at this well into the future.
So for now feel free to browse the EDTA website, and get your questions ready. Who are they , why are they there, and how can they help us and we help them? Come back at 2:00 and join in the discussion and see how together we can help get this country off of oil.
143 Responses to “Spotlight on the EDTA: Live Chat With President”
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:17 am
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:27 am
I had no idea these guys existed. Any help is appreciated when it comes to electrifying the automobile. I am totally sold on this point.
Let’s get off of oil.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:28 am
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:41 am
I love the fact that there are so many automobile makers poised to produced EVs of some kind or another.
Is this trend stoppable? I sincerely hope not.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:46 am
This link below cracks me up:
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Preparing-city-for-life-after-oil-41240192.html#
San Francisco Radicals want to move forward to prepare for Peak Oil by getting people to convert their garages to liveable space, get public transportation for everyone and use an excuse to convert golf courses to farms etc.
How about just wait 3 or 4 years (after the early adopters have bought all the $40-100,000 cars) and have everyone buy cheap little electric cars to drive around the city. Then these folks will probably wish they had their garage to plug their cars in.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:48 am
You may be interested in this little news article from the Gulf Coast.
http://www.wkrg.com/alabama/article/auto-plant-in-bay-minette/379896/Sep-23-2009_11-27-am/
Hybrid Kinetic Automotive Holdings, a company owned by an exiled Chinese auto executive named Yong “Benjamin” Yeung. Yeung’s plan is to build a “full family” of affordable hybrid-electric cars on 3,000 acres in northeast Bay Minette, AL., just east of Highway 287 and south of I-65.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:54 am
Rashiid:
We are sure on the same page on this issue!!!!
I really am waiting to get that first test drive…..
And on this one, I am not kidding: NPNS!!
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September 24th, 2009 at 7:19 am
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September 24th, 2009 at 7:20 am
Jim,
There are plenty of hybrid electric and electric bikes, scooters and motorcycles that will convey the pros and cons of EV’s. When I rode my Ezip bike, I was sold on EV’s, because the low end torque in city driving is a real joy.
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September 24th, 2009 at 7:24 am
I wish him luck. If he has a good looking, good performing, affordable product, he should do OK.
Just as Dell and countless other computer makers displaced IBM, Unisys and other incumbant computer companies, new entrants are a very real threat to the old automakers – that is why they are scrambling to reinvent their product lines.
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September 24th, 2009 at 7:25 am
No harm to being first, but is this a kids game?
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September 24th, 2009 at 7:28 am
Once in a while, you have to make it kind of fun.
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September 24th, 2009 at 7:29 am
This is so far out that it is not believable.
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September 24th, 2009 at 7:36 am
I noticed during a fast glance of the EDTA website that the Range Extender is not included under “Types of Electric Drives”. Very disappointing!
Lyle, any chance you could ask the EDTA about that?
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September 24th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Having worked in the auto industry when the Japanese automakers began to ascend, I knew the time was near when Chinese and Indian automakers would arrive on our shores.
If, as some suspect, the auto industry may eventually mimic the computer industry, we will have countless automakers snapping together standard subsystems and components into rebadged vehicles. We see it to some extent today, with the Yaris being rebadged for nearly every automaker.
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September 24th, 2009 at 8:17 am
It is there, Estero. On the left side column, under
Types of Electric Drives”
In “extended range” electric vehicles, batteries are charged from the grid and by a small gas engine that powers a generator which powers the batteries (the engine doesn’t propel the vehicle, it recharges the batteries.)
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September 24th, 2009 at 8:20 am
“Does it seem that suddenly everyone is talking about electric vehicles? Well, that’s because they are. But it’s not a sudden development in the automotive world.”
We’ve been talking about it since I was a kid. Barely a month went by without some battery article in Popular Science or Popular Mechanics.
And nothing has changed. We are waiting for a battery that is high-capacity, highly dense and low in price.
We’ve finally gotten to the point where the economics and capacity are marginally acceptable and some will have the means to indulge in an electric vehicle.
Mass market? Not yet.
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September 24th, 2009 at 8:34 am
FWIW, their definitions consider the VOLT as a “Battery” Electric drive and not a “Plug-in Hybrid”.
Is that good, bad or indifferent?
“”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"
“Types of Electric Drive:
Battery
Uses batteries to power an electric motor which propels the vehicle. In “extended range” electric vehicles, batteries are charged from the grid and by a small gas engine that powers a generator which powers the batteries (the engine doesn’t propel the vehicle, it recharges the batteries.)
Plug-in hybrid
Uses electricity and gas to move vehicle’s wheels. Some, or all, of that electricity comes from the grid — from “plugging in.”
Hybrid
Uses both an electric motor and an internal combustion engine to propel the vehicle.
Fuel Cell
Combines hydrogen fuel and oxygen to produce electricity used the power an electric motor that moves the vehicle.”
“”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"
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September 24th, 2009 at 8:36 am
Well all I can say is big things are happening in the Southern US and along the Gulf Coast in the world of autos, ships and aircraft. Great area to live in and work, come grow with us.
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September 24th, 2009 at 8:44 am
dagwood55
I would agree with you IF it were not for ER-EV type vehicles. But because of them I expect the change to electric to be rapid and hopefully in time to be BEV with rapid charge or induction charge.
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September 24th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Mass Market? Not yet.
Yup. This is my main gripe. Still to expensive for the masses.
However, time is limited for this. Eventually they will be cheap enough.
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September 24th, 2009 at 8:46 am
I agree with them.
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Rashiid
I just went to their site and found the Fisker Karma listed in a different catagory than the Volt. The Volt is listed as a BEV while the Karma is listed under plug in hybrid electric vehicles.
I HOPE THE KARMA IS UNDER THE WRONG HEADING AND NOT THE VOLT.
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:08 am
Off topic (and out of place, I suppose) . . . . but,
I kind of glossed over this vehicle before, thinking it was just a concept car “attention getter”. But apparently VW is planning for production around 2013.
You usually would see a car like this and immediately think “it’ll never pass the crash tests”, but VW is claiming GTrace car like protection (the tandem seating allows for increased thickness/protection down the sidewalls).
I could see a 170mpg L1 being a serious contender (vs. plug-ins) in the green market.
The Volkswagen L1 Concept
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VemGJSIN1XY
/plus, it looks great
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:08 am
In the POST CHEAP OIL world, we all know we are moving to electric mobility. The more people understand it the easier the transition will be.
In addition to the benefit of not sending all our currency overseas to buy our energy, we also must not miss this huge opportunity to help our economy by having Manufacturing of vehciles and batteries also be done in this country.
Expensive OIL also means expensive SHIPPING. Cargo ships will not be converting to electric, and Nuclear for civilian shipping will never be allowed because of terrorism threats.
OEMs will want to build close to their customers.
My hope is the development of domestic energy and mobility will drive our economy for the next 20 years.
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:18 am
add,
Concept Car: Volkswagen L1
http://autos.terra.com/noticias/Concept_car_volkswagen_l1/aut66284/
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Same here, Rashiid. Never heard of this association. Too bad we did not hear from them two years ago. Of course, they operate in a different zone than does gm-volt.com. Same end game in sight, but not aware of the other. Maybe we will all gain knowledge from each other and be of help to each other. We’ll see.
And you guys lay off Jason. He deserves to be first a few times. He adds a lot to our discussion. Way to go, Jason.
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Anything is stoppable. But there is enough wind in the EV sails that we will go a long way before a course change affects us. Anti-gravity drive might be next.
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Yeah, I could laugh at that too if I didn’t know these a-holes were dead serious. San Francisco is a “strange” city that I used to want to visit. Now it would seem like punishment to be required to visit for any reason. It would have to be a required reason for me to visit because I would not do so voluntarily. IMO.
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Well, I guess that’s why they call ‘em “radicals.” If they had any common sense, maybe they’d be called “practicals.”
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:33 am
one more add,
This is the “clean sheet” approach I wish more manufacturers would take as they try to achieve high levels of efficiency. So far it looks like Aptera and VW are the only ones to really go after this.
I’d bet more than 80% of the cars I see on the road today have just got 1 or 2 people in them with no cargo. There’s a lot of room in the marketplace for an efficient 2 seater.
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:34 am
The problem with this Chinese exile building that plant in Alabama is that he has no money. He has to raise the capital. I doubt if that is possible. He had to flee China and leave behind his riches which he can not access. I wish him luck, but I am not holding my breath on this one.
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:37 am
Well, Old Man, the Volt is certainly not a BEV. I think they are confused about the Volt as much as anyone. The name “Volt” is somewhat confusing when you consider it also uses gasoline with an ICE range extender. Can’t be a true BEV.
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Yes, I can agree to a good degree. I got a good lesson yesterday about battery technology. My wife drives a 2004 Honda Odyssey. Purchased in August 2004. In October 2006 the battery died after just over two years of use (It was a Delco battery, which I always thought were good batteries). We replaced it with a battery from Interstate Battery. Well, yesterday after a little less than three years that battery died with a bad cell all of a sudden. Now, she has had this mini-van for just over 5 years and it is on its third battery. Battery technology leaves something to be desired when this type of activity occurs. I am sure I am not alone in experiencing the same problems with today’s batteries. Makes me really concerned for the battery technology in the Volt and other electrically driven vehicles.
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Two things: 1) Then why is the Fisker Karma listed separately from the Volt? 2) In the Volt the range extender spins a generator that sends power to the electric motor to turn the wheels. Some electricity from the generator may be used to sustain the battery but does not primarily re-charge the battery. That is not its purpose. Its purpose is to send electricity to drive the wheels.
In my opinion they are wrong to list the Karma and the Volt separately in different groups. Both are plug-in electric vehicles with ICE range extenders that power the wheels.
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Thanks, Jay. I have lived in close proximity to the Gulf Coast all my life and I have to agree with you except the “come grow with us” part. We are doing pretty well on our own and don’t really want a large influx of people and problems, thank you.
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Actually, most of it looks pretty good to me. First of all, it will take more than 3-4 years before “cheap little electric cars” become readily available. My guess is 20 years minimum before everyone can have one .
Second of all, we’re also running low on water. And available farmland. So converting golf courses to farmland sounds great to me. It will also cut down on agricultural runnoff, improve our carbon footprint. Etc.
Third, it’s always a good idea to improve public transporation, even if all the cars were BEVs, IMHO. It cuts down on congestion. Reduces traffic accidents. Etc.
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Jason, somehow I just can’t picture you on a bike. I don’t know why, but I can’t. Stop fooling us with that line.
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:06 am
I noticed this too, Rashiid: “….(the engine doesn’t propel the vehicle, it recharges the batteries.)” Oh well, they almost got it right.
For the Volt, as we all know, the genset actually DOES propel the vehicle by providing most of the current to the traction motor in the charge-sustaining mode!
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:09 am
ROTFLMAO!
I know, right, but since it is electric and doing all the work, it seems more believeable.
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:13 am
San Francisco has become a nightmare and their city of the future I want no part of. I used to live there and thought it was the one of the coolest cities in the world at the time. Now it’s the last place I would live. I avoid going there as much as possible. We have to keep an eye it though, because it is a proving ground for all the radical left’s ideas and policies. I can guarantee you that the task force report cited in the article will be taken seriously and many of it’s suggestions implemented, ie; forced on the people whether there is peak oil or not.
I for one, am not so defeatist and closed minded to believe that peak oil will force us all to return to the 18th century and give up on all the technology we have gained. No way I’m putting chickens in my backyard! I’m not serving time on some community farm, and the garage is where I’m going to keep my car, my motorcycle and my jet skis. They may not run on gas anymore and I may need to route more electrical power out there, but they will be there and I will use them. I don’t need any addition living space, but thanks for asking.
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:18 am
Really? I’m not aware of the Yaris being rebadged as anything outside the Toyota family. Who else has a Yaris besides Toyota?
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Getting back to the topic, EDTA’s Policy Strategy includes:
“4. Promote Deployment
… and support investment in metering and charging facilities needed for widespread adoption of electric drive vehicles. “
http://www.electricdrive.org/index.php?ht=d/sp/i/10875/pid/10875
This is a bit of a hot button topic for me. The implication is dangerous. When they say “metering and charging facilities are needed for widespread adoption of electric drive vehicles” – many people will believe them, and they won’t consider purchasing an electric drive vehicle until they see charging stations all over the place.
We need to stop spreading this false rumor. EREVs and PHEVs do not require metering and charging facilities for widespread adoption. What’s more: “Our existing electric utility system could handle tens of millions of plug-in hybrid vehicles if they would be recharged during off-peak times, such as at night.”
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/programs/ht/tm/3507.html?site=22&pl=wmp&rate=hi&ch=5
So what we should be saying is: Mass adoption of plug-in cars will work just fine with our existing infrastructure. This will focus the political discussion on the development of plug-in cars, which is exactly what we need right now.
In the future, as electric drive cars gain mass adoption, then we can start talking about metering and charging facilities. But talking about that now will only serve to delay the very thing we are all striving for.
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:30 am
DaV8or
I use to live in Sonoma and loved to go to San Francisco but no more. The press they get makes the city seem anti just about anything I believe in.
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:38 am
It may look great, but I would be completely surprised if it caught on enough to be sold in any great quantity. I am not interested in a vehicle that only carries two people and in-line at that. I know some people will be, but they will be a very small minority. IMO.
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:39 am
OFF TOPIC & Breaking news….
TESLA LOSES engineering chief…
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090924/AUTO01/909240353/1148/rss25/Tesla-Motors-loses-manufacturing–engineering-chief
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Carcus
I actually would consider such a car! BUT there would need to be one major change. The car would HAVE to be higher off the ground. And I would need to see the specs to know how fast it can go and does it have the power to climb mountains. and how many gallons of fuel does it hold.
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Its just a matter of a few lines of code in the computer.
The Volt is a BEV, it will run fine (and with unchanged performance) if the ICE genset was stolen, granted it will have a short range of 32-40 miles.
The Karma is a driver-selectable hybrid, works just like a Volt but when the driver selects “Sports Mode” the genset will come on continuously, the 260hp from the genset will be added to the power of the battery to make the electric motors deliver over 400hp to the wheels.. it is a sports car after all.
The Volts genset does not have to respond fast at all and probably can use simpler emission controls.
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Very good, valid points. I agree.
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:57 am
OK. I can see the “doing all the work” part with you. Have fun with it. Do you use it all the time or is it just recreational?
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September 24th, 2009 at 10:57 am
neeener neeener neeeeeener!!!!
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Dave G
I ASSUME they discuss charging stations and metering because some of their members are already investing time, research, and money to have these infrastructures in place as soon as is possible.
Even tho they will not be profitable for a while yet, I do want the research to continue at as rapid a pace as is possible.
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Dave, I ranted very similarly the other day about betterplace and was prepared to do it again today. I like your rant better (links are key). EV adoption is simple! stop making it complicated.
If every American woke tomorrow to find their ICE vehicle had been magically replaced by an EREV, there would be a grand total of 0 people stranded due to lack of infrastructure.
WE DON’T NEED INFRASTRUCTURE TO GET EV’S ON THE ROAD
LJGTVWOTR
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:03 am
HAHA yeah, I was thinking the same thing
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:03 am
LauraM, do you wonder if those SF “nuts?” thought about where people were going to park all those little electric cars that would be running around? Seems they ought to still have use of their garages. But maybe SF has plans to house all their street people in those newly created living spaces. I still think that loons think like loons. I don’t doubt there are a few good nuggets in the list of ideas. I especially like the one about putting chicken coups in peoples back yards. And the one about charging additional taxes on fast foods to support food farming within the city. One would think that if you grew good quality food in SF, you would not need a tax subsidy. I guess the loons don’t think anything can get done without tax support. Way to go SF. The loon capitol of the world. I am laughing so hard it is hard to type. I can’t wait for the next real life story to come out of the place. LOL.
Edited: I must apologize to the Loon birds around the world for disgracing their names like this. I hope they don’t swoop down and poop on me.
Edited: Laura, where do you think the agricultural runoff from these newly converted golf courses will go? I agree with some of what you said. But why not just ban petroleum use within the city? For SF that’s not too far out here, is it?
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:06 am
I would highly consider this. My oldest will be in college soon so that leaves just my son and I in the morning commute. The only small issue I have, and I’ll get around it, is the tandem. It’s gonna be hard to smack the kid around. I’ll just keep an old fly swatter in the car for this.
Back to my Kahlua and Mocha.
/whatever happened 2 the Tango?
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Old Man,
It is not that the “seem” against what most of believe in. It is that they “are” against what most of us believe in. It is not the press that created the loon capitol of the world. The citizens did it. Or rather they let it happen. They deserve every thing that happens to them. I have absolutely no sympathy for people who just stand by and let government run wild. Same for the rest of us with the U.S. government. OK, off my soap box. I wish them luck, but I don’t see them changing. Just getting worse. When the wheels start coming off, they seldom go back on straight by themselves. They either come off completely or you stop and fix them. I don’t see any activity there towards fixing their problems. They can keep the place. Just don’t export their ideas over to my home state.
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:21 am
the other big discrepancy is to list “fuel cell” separately. What difference does it make if the electric drive receives its electricity from a plug-in battery, ICE, diesel, fuel cell, flywheel or anything else? Fuel cell DOES NOT define the drive of the car, electric does.
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Also completely off the topic.
Whatever happened to Static?
Is he OK?
Did the flying saucers come and pick him back up?
Kinda miss his genius.
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Imagine tomorrow that you wake up and discover that you are unable to fill your gas tank up because oil just isn’t available anymore. You live outside the city where you work and can no long use your car to get into work. After a few days pase, you find the shelves of the local grocery store empty, and wonder where you can get food to eat.
People would need to live close to where they work, would need to resort to growing their own food. More people would migrate to the cities where adequate housing would be needed.
Peak oil according to experts occurred last year or will likely occur by 2012. Together with the increased demand by countries like China and India, dwindling supplies of oil will drive the cost of gasoline to over $5 per gallon. We got alook at what it will be like; last year when gasoline hit around $4. Consumable goods prices skyrocketed driving many to poverty.
Thank God, we are turning to an electric economy with companies like GM who realize what is happening and are giving us the future means of transportation independent of petroleum.
Go Volt!
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Actually Karma is a series-parallel hybrid, it doesn’t have a pure electric drive, its gas engine propels the wheels when its needed… I think that qualifies the car as hybrid not electric….
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:29 am
My 1.5cents….
Fisker & Volt are both “Plugin Hybrid”.
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Basaed on what you say, the listing of the Volt is wrong. Volt is a EREV not a BEV!
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Officials at Tesla don’t think it much of a big deal apparently. I wish them and him luck.
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Some of the concept specs are in the autos.terra link.
- Range is about 415 mi.
- Top speed is 100 mph
- Given the weight (800 lbs) torque (74+ftxlb) and hp (39hp) I would estimate that highway passing and hill climbing would be pretty average, maybe like a honda civic or similar.
- I’m a bit surprised by the leisurely 0-60 acceleration of 14 seconds, but that may be in the eco mode(?). In reality, this is about how fast most of us accelerate in day to day driving, but I would want the ability to do 0-60 in less than 10 seconds.
/if one could accept, say 80 to 100 mpg, I would think the L1 could return some very “sporty” performance numbers. I think it would sell better like that.
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Rashiid, The point I was trying to make is like nasaman said – EDTA got it almost right.
The ICE in Range Extender EV’s, like the Volt, drive a electric generator which in turn powers the wheels, None of the schematics on the EDTA website show that configuration.
Hope I got it right!
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:52 am
The only stopper is the battery. If it is cheap, light, and holds a lot of juice then the EV is a go, if not, its a bust.
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September 24th, 2009 at 11:54 am
OK. I can understand your logic here except the part where “more people would migrate to the cities where adequate housing would be needed”. I don’t agree that would be the case. In large part, I think the cities would be abandoned and people would migrate to the countryside or areas where food was grown. Two reasons for this would be that without petroleum more people power would be needed to grow the food and secondly the distribution of the food would be more local rather than national or world-wide as it is now. Sure, some enterprising people would start small farms in the city parks and vacant lots, but these would not support a very large population. They could convert the roofs of buildings to farm plots and that could give them enough land mass to provide food for a much larger population. It is a scary thought you have raised but one that could be overcome by going back to a much simpler way of life. In the meantime the world would lose about two-thirds or more of its population. Which some would agree would be a good thing.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Again, laughing so hard it is difficult to type. What are you drinking? I suppose there is a wife in the picture? If so, she would most likely be in the rear tandem seat with you driving. When that happens guess who will have the fly swatter. You might want to reconsider giving her the tools to smack you around while you are driving. That could be dangerous to your health. And scary. lol.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Add,
I hope VW would learn from Honda’s 2000-2006 insight: Watered down performance doesn’t sell.
If the L1 had sport car performance AND got high gas mileage , then I think it would sell. If it kind of creeps around, that’ll be a negative that could hurt sales substantially.
The L1 looks like it should go fast. They need to make performance to match.
/If there’s a LARGE perfomance/mpg gap inbetween the “sport mode” switch and the “eco mode” switch, that would be fine.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Statik is on sabbatical from gm-volt.com. He occasionally authors an article for Lyle to post and we enjoy his sense of humor and directed logic when he does. We miss him too. As far as the space craft, I think he was already working from it when he was regularly posting on this forum. Maybe he is on a short galactic trek and will return at some point in our future. He will only age a few years while our earth will age centuries. Just think. Our prodigy might have the “pleasure” of his wit. Think about that a moment. NO… don’t think to hard about it. It might make your head swim. It does mine.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
statik got short ciruited. The Unicorn came and bucked him in the a$$….
lol…
jk, he’s floatin around doing guest posts on occasion.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
many people have batteries that last 5 years, a lot depend on under-the-hood temperatures and driving patterns.
A lot of short trips with heavy electrical loads will not allow the battery to fully recharge..
Heat is a big killer of lead acid batteries.. in Arizona batteries seldom last more than 2 years. Keeping your battery in a sealed compartment away from the engine heat does wonders for its life.. Mercedes, BMW and some American cars do this.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Yeah, it sounds like he camein, did his job, now he’s done. There’s a story on thi on ABG.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Actually, Range Extended vehicles, like the Volt, are more like vehicles in the Fuel Cell category than those in the Battery, Plug-In Hybrid or Hybrid categories.
Replace the Fuel Cell with an ICE, diesel or whatever and then replace the Hydrogen fuel tank with gasoline, diesel or other fuel tank and what you end up with is a Volt-type Range Extended vehicle.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
It sounds like something from a list of ingredients:
“EDTA added to preserve freshness.”
If they’re so all fired terrific, why is this post the first time I’ve ever heard of them?
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Today’s San Francisco is tomorrow’s America. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Guess I forgot – the plug-in capability would have to be added.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
“- Range is about 415 mi.”
That’s 315 miles longer than I need for the whole week! Besides, traveling that long in that seated position would cramp my a$$ cheecks. Unless of course Jennifer Love Hewitt was sitting in my lap, then it’s all good!
http://jennifer-love-hewitt-nude.com/index_files/image/jennifer-love-hewitt-20070813-298051.jpg
“- Top speed is 100 mph.”
Man, i’m lucky to get up to 55mph on my daily commute. Damn rubbernecking drivers….
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
canuck
Dang! I thought the Karma was only propelled by electric motors.
They just moved down on my wish list.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
LauraM, I like your way of thinking in general. Always a pleasure to read you.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Boy…I’m glad I wasn’t first!
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Have to say I was a bit worried when Statik didn’t jump in on the eestor conversations.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
The important thing here would be to never give up the reserve fly swatter.
fly swatter wars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvCtosF1Vk4
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
My fly swatter is battery powered, although not by Lithium.
http://www.electricflyswatter.net/
And yes I do own one. These things are cool. It’s better than smahing the guts on the wall or kitchen counter. It even works on those pesky wasps/meat bees. Jus watchem fry!
I guess I should really take the garbage out more often, huh?
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
For once I agree with Capt. Jack. Well, I usually don’t disagree totally.
They both plug-in and have two sources of on-board energy. The EREV thing was invented by GM. It does nothing to improve the definition of an EV or distinguish Volt from any other plug-in hybrid other than marketing.
Only thing I would change is to say the Volt is a ‘plug-in serial hybrid’ whereas the Prius is a ‘plug-in parallel hybrid’. To a ‘normal’ person (normal = not a reader of this site), there is no distinction between serial and parallel.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
If JLH was on your lap, this would seem comfortable.
http://www.ahneugene.com/work/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/nailed-chair1.jpg
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
AHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!
I dunno man, I’m as soft as a Baby’s ……..
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Don’t get to carried away with this Electric Drive/Car stuff. It has yet to even be adopted in sustainable numbers yet. It could just be a temporary fad for the next five years and then fizzle out. Word to the wise: Big Oil is BACK with a vengeance this year. We are on a hot streak for sure. Here are some preliminary finding that show Oil will be around for quite some time to come even if EV does get adopted by a significant percent.
More than 200 NEW MAJOR OIL DISCOVERIES in dozens of countries across 5 continents found this year alone.
This is very exciting news and super excitement has permeated the petroleum sector. We are loving this. My Bonus this year alone equals my last five years of salary. Life is good in the oil patch
Peak Oil – Are you kidding me ? Ha ha
Oil is here to stay fellas. Deal with it. I am a happy camper and if I am happy you should be happy too. Have a good one.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
“Always a pleasure to read you…..”
with X-Ray eyes……
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
I suppose it’s more humane, too.
I’ve been strapping them to little fly chairs and giving them lethal injections. Pretty tough to find a vein, though.
/If you leave the garbage there long enough, it just sort of melts down into a smaller pile — less mass to carry out at the end of the year.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
You betcha.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
News of the day….
AONE goes public!
A123 offered their IPO today at the initial pre market price of $9 per share. This was amended up to $13.50 by the open. As of 2PM EST AONE is up 44% to $19.40 per share. This is after briefly touching $20 at 1PM EST.
A new Corvette!
NGMCO (formerly GM) today announced the start of production on the 2011 EEStor electric Corvette powered by Microsoft Vista!
BTW: Just kidding on the second announcement.
=D~
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Sure you’re a happy camper, but what if you could be permeated with super excitement?
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
yup, see. He’s walking funny.
Good Unicorn, good good Unicorn….
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Their website is pretty lame. You can’t even get the newsletter if you don’t live in the US.
Also, ’someone will contact you about membership’. Lol. It doesn’t even render properly in IE8.
Even their registrar record is funny. Although it *was* registered in 2002 showing they have been around for 7 years or so. Although if founded in 1989 and didn’t find out about the WWW until 2002? Lame.
On en.wikipedia.org they are second banana to some kind of chemical.
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
The agricultural “policy” in the United States is just as disfunctional as our default energy policy. Basically, the goverment is subsidizing our fast food industry. And the market price of “fast food” doesn’t even start to cover it’s actual price. First of all, there are massive corn subsidies, and subsidized water. It’s also major source of agricultural runoff which is contaminating our water supply. Organic farming done right doesn’t produce any agricultural runoff.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1917458,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/18/us/18dairy.html
It’s also extremely unhealthy, which is one of the major reasons our health care system is going bankrupt. It’s not the only reason, but it’s one of them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/opinion/10pollan.html?scp=1&sq=big%20food%20big%20insurance&st=cse
And then there’s the whole antibiotic resistance problem…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31766160/ns/health-food_safety/page/2/
So taxing fast food sounds like a great idea to me. I’d prefer a complete overhaul of our entire agricultural policy. But this is faster and easier. And much more politically doable.
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Concerned Reader,
So if the public is perceived to be that stupid (”many people will believe them, and they won’t consider purchasing an electric drive vehicle until they see charging stations all over the place,” lions and tigers and bears oh my), then who will be the folks that are smart, organized and directed enough to go out and by some form of electrified transport?
You’re angry and letting your buttons get mashed over semantics? Highway capable electric cars don’t exist yet and OEM’s say that’s 1/3 of the infrastructure. GM, Nissan and Tesla are all getting agreements from third parties to install charging stations and moving ahead with selling cars. No, the sky is not falling, electric cars will get to the market and be sold.
Don’t let OEM semantics, offloading of any external risks and searching for infrastructure movers and money stress you out. Besides it’s better to advocate for some infrastructure than sweep everything under the carpet out of fear. Maybe Tag can direct you to some of his favorite meds.
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
I forgot to add–yes, obviously, there are some ideas in their plan that seem a little…extreme. Chicken coops, and converting garages comes to mind.
Although, if I had a garage, and I suddenly had access to great public transporation, it might make financial sense to sell the garage (and the car) assuming it could function as a stand-alone building. (Land in the area would become a lot more valuable than it was before there was access to good public transportation.)
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Electric transportation at Best Buy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fizCP9hv_58
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Thank you. I enjoy reading your posts too.
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
It is unfashionable in this supposedly egalitarian times to say it is in the Nature of things that Loons will be Loons. Cognitive abilities are normally distributed and some non-cognates fall at the tail of the Bell Curve. We call them mentally challenged..
Unlike these cognitively handicapped or rather the mentally challenged as PC would use as terminology, the people we label Loons can think, but they don’t chose to do so. Or think in slogans supplied by others.
Two simple non-cognitive examples of Loon ‘thinking’.
There must be a reason why Tomorrow’s invention was not available or used Yesterday. It must be a Conspiracy.
A supply of something is not Infinite. Therefore we will run out immediately or Tomorrow, and the World will end then as there is no alternative. It must be a Conspiracy.
Please let Loons be Loons. As long as they remain ineffectual…
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Another thread jack that takes up cyber-space with out any point; I’m in!
Jason were you wearing that suit and tie when you typed in that now infamous comment?
Note: We sent the Shuttle back to you fellas in Florida on the back or a 747, but without Dave G’s biodeisel, it really makes you wonder…
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Discovering oil and taking it to market are two different things.
Pretty much everyone here knows that EV technology won’t be able to replace oil transport in several decades. Barring a break-through battery that has the same or higher energy density than gasoline/diesel, we realize that we are a ways off.
Some of us, though, think we can stop using at least half of the current imports fairly quickly. Especially if you guys keep gouging us on price!
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
DaV8or
N Riley
Are you confusing the attitudes of the residents for geographical features? SF is still an amazing place.
So amazing that some residents take that unique environment as evidence that the warm gasses propagating the sounds that emanate from their larynges are equally special.
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Oil is not going to disapear overnight. If peak oil happens, there’s going to be an extended period of time where it’s very expensive first. That will give people time to adapt.
Of course, the sooner we start working on substitutes, the better off we’ll be. And the smoother the transition.
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September 24th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Please Never say Never.
We are in the midst of an Interregnum time when Fossil fuels have been and are temporarily PRICE unjustified due to the imposition of an effective monopolistic concerns. Prior to 1973, Oil was priced near the cost of production plus profit. Since 1973 and probably continuing until about 2020, the Oil market has been “cornered” and Price is totally unrelated to cost of production.
Post 2020 the markets for Oil will have withered away such that the PRICE monopoly will be comprehensively broken and it will return to the pre-1973 usual commodity pricing condition, for the several hundreds of years or millennia while it is both available and desired.
You are most likely correct that maritime vessels will likely never use fisson power. But thermonuclear power plants may eventually prove to be of the size and power output suitable to be used for shipping needs.
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
You would have gotten votes for this, but the positives (first announcement) were canceled out by the negatives (second announcement).
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Unrelated but it has not come up in discussions that I have seen… A123 went public today and is trading above $20 a share (started at $13.50 this morning).
Very exciting news… lots of people seem to be behind the electrification of the automobile and are willing to put their money where their mouth is.
Lets get these cars on the road!
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
I think I just buried Mr Wynne with bout a hundred questions. This reminds me of my days on the undernet chat lines. I wonder if the undernet is still around ?
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
I’m sorry but I disagree. Please don’t treat the temporary 40 year condition that we are enduring, as a fact of Nature. In the normal course of events, Energy continually get More available and More inexpensive.
There is little reason any longer to contemplate much further reduction in the size of vehicles, as a necessity. Non oil substitutes are becoming available, at last. Bypassing safety concerns by the artifice of labeling is a momentary condition at best. These “enclosed motorcycles” will never be widely utilized except as a temporary expedient. Look at the history of industrial societies as they industrialize and get wealthier. In every case, Man progresses from animal/human power such as the horse or bicycle, to the motor scooter to the motor cycle, to the motor car. It happens in every society, You can’t find an exception. Downsizing is an artifice to improve fuel economy and not necessarily improve efficiency.
Tomorrow’s’ World won’t necessarily give a damn about fuel economy per se.
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Don’t get me wrong – research is great. We need to look at everything in the lab. But if they start talking to local governments and utility companies, that’s beyond research, and that’s where the problems start…
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Here in the deep South, I’d never had a (lead-acid) battery last longer than 3 years … until our recent drought. For the first time in my driving experience, I had one last 4 years. This makes me think that humidity, as well as heat, has an effect.
We must resist the temptation to apply our experiences with lead-acid batteries on other types; there really is no basis for comparison. Having said that, my experiences with cell phone and laptop batteries made me highly skeptical of Lithium Ion for transportation — before I came here, and learned of the steps GM has taken to prolong the life of the Volt’s battery pack.
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Yes! Well said.
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
There is no connection from the ICE to the wheels. There is no transfer of kinetic energy from the generator to the wheels. Propelling the vehicle is a tertiary function of the ICE. Primary is cranking the generator. The generator initiates a current for the motor. So can we say the ICE does not “propel” the Volt, but at times it transfers kinetic energy to the generator which provides current for the motor, which does propel the Volt?
Is there a way to electrically pre heat the cat converter and would it be worth trying? A parallel hybrid needs the ICE on sporadic occasions and at times immediately. But the Volts need for the ICE could be very predictable.
A cat converter preheat could potentially lower Volt emissions to make it safe enough to run in relatively enclosed spaces as an ultra low emission car or better, with the ICE running.
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
I’ve never seen any at my local Best Buy.
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
There was a fission powered cargo ship launched in 1959, the Savannah:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah
It was a demonstration subsidized by the US government as part of the “Atoms for Peace” program.
The “Polywell” nuclear fusion project has received funding from the US Navy as a potential powerplant for ocean-going vessels (no doubt military ones, initially). This reactor was designed and championed by Robert W. Bussard, a longtime fusion researcher. From what I’ve heard, performance of the experimental devices have so far proven to be very promising.
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Me either. But I do see those iZip bikes & Trikes flying by. I saw an old man on a trike in the bike lane passing everyone in traffic.
I asked the sales peeps at Best Buy when they expect to get them in and they said in a few months if things go well at pilot stores.
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
It’s not a question of smart/stupid, it’s more of a question of interested/disinterested. Many of the people I talk to are disinterested. In other words, they sort of filter out any information about electric drive cars because they’ve been led to believe it’s not ready for prime time. Talking about investment in metering and charging facilities only reinforces this…
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
“I think I just buried Mr Wynne with bout a hundred questions.”
… and he appears to have “answered” two of them. Aside from these, only Rashiid and I appear to have made it onto the chat from gm-volt.
I put “answered” in quotes because of what I took to be many vaguely and not answered questions (including mine):
“Solar energy, which would deliver power during on-peak loads (when the sun is up), seems capable of a synergy with on-peak charging of EVs. Is EDTA involved in any way with promoters of Solar energy, or do you have a program, yourselves?”
(Brian Wynne): “The future of renewable power and electric vehicles are closely linked. Using renewable power in vehicles is the way to end dependence on foreign oil and increase sustainability. The increasing addition of renewable sources to the grid not only advances green power and green transportation.”
I asked him about the relationships EDTA might have with other entities concerning Solar advocacy, or if he had a Solar program of his own; and his answer seems to boil down to “It’s all good. Whatever, dude.”
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Tesla and it non engineering department of its non existent manufacturing facilities had little need of him. Everything was contracted out to Lotus or others. You weren’t very observant if you did not notice the Farce that occurred when Tesla attempted to design a reduction gear set, and label it a transmission, and then find someone to construct it for them. That went on for what 4 years, before they just gave up and quit; and then said it wasn’t necessary to have one after all?
The Founders have reconciled to split the 3/4 of a billion dollars of taxpayer money and walk off into the sunset, as the real automakers start manufacturing electric vehicles of various types.
Just like the Fisker owners are splitting another half a billion dollars of of taxpayer money without having had anyone even build them a single vehicle. In both cases, It helps to be politically connected I guess.
I wonder just how much Al Gore’s ownership share of Fisker will pay him?
Ah the wonders of central planning and government by the Clueless One and his clowns.
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
JDR – What is your definition of major?
You could be in bonus territory for years to come…even if oil begins to be a relatively smaller part of the increasing energy pie. China became the largest auto market, India and Brazil are coming up fast – at projections of 100 mb’s a day consumption how long will any “smaller” fields last?
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September 24th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Estero, if the fuel cell provides most of the power it’s not a BEV, plug or not. Has to have a reasonably big battery to convert the fuel cell from main propulsion to range extender.
CaptJackSparrow, Fisker’s generator is user specified, which takes it from 1) range extender to 2) primary propulsion. That button takes the car from optimized range extended electric to parallel assist sport hybrid.
The second would be similar to the high end Lexus hybrid or the discontinued Honda Accord hybrid. Electric motors become just performance enhancers for the ICE.
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September 24th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
I currently live in Berkeley, (I came from Orange County in Southern California) and I assure you guys that you’re only looking at the area skin deep. It’s much more complicated than what you are implying. Sure there are very loud activists here in the area, which can be a good thing from time to time, but there are more brilliant minds in this area than almost any other part of the country. Don’t be so quick to pass judgment on only a few things you happen to notice and disagree with.
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September 24th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Yeah! Way to go, Jackson & Rashiid. Good questions. Although I did not learn anything new from what he said. We all have gone over all of this many times already on this web-site. Maybe Mr. Wynne needs to spend a little time on our site each day and he might just learn something useful.
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September 24th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
“That button takes the car from optimized range extended electric to parallel assist sport hybrid.”
Huh?
I thought the Whisker was a “Series Hybrid”? Did I miss something?
Or when you say “Parallel assist” you mean both the Genset and Batt pack is supplying juice in concert/together to do donut holes on Carcus1’s lawn?
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September 24th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
“You can’t find an exception.”
______
Sounds like a challenge.
Here’s an exception: Trains. “Light Rail” wasn’t even a term until 1972.
Here’s another exception: Airplanes. Regional jets have gained popularity over the past 10 to 15 years during he demise of the hub and spoke system.
Both of these exceptions have to do with convenience . . . picking the right tool for the right job. I see this as a potential trend for automobiles once people realize that they don’t need a 6,000 lb SUV to drive back and forth to work, or to pick up a gallon of milk. A smaller vehicle is easier (and more fun) to operate and park, and it saves money.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail#Pros_and_cons_of_light_rail
p.s. Your “bypassing safety concerns” remark is out of place. I addressed that in my original post. VW (and Aptera, for that matter) are very aware of safety issues and are apparently handling the issue with a lot more than “the artifice of labeling”. Read up.
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September 24th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
The company that Dr. Ballard founded, Energy Mass Conversion Corporation, can be found here:
http://www.emc2fusion.org/
I highly recommend the google video “Should Google Go Nuclear” (link on page), if you can handle some fairly technical discussion and don’t mind killing most of an hour watching a fascinating fusion history dissertation. Other resources concerning this approach to fusion are also linked.
Although the site looks primitive, the prototypes pictured are not (they’re pretty much operating on a shoestring there).
It would be ironic and fitting indeed if this turned out to be the true avenue to cheap, clean energy; and not the hundreds-of-billions funded, multi-decadal, multi-govt sponsored programs such as ITER. It would evoke the eminent Dr. S. P. Langley’s government-funded program to develop the airplane, vs the shoestring operation of two brothers named Wright.
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Donuts in the lawn . . . that’s how I mow it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5M_BpcC67o
/getrdone
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Hi guy,
Glad to hear you’re OK.
Pop in from time to time if the mood suits ya.
Besides, if you leave all that opinion pent up inside, you could blow a gasket.
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
It’s OK to be first (I was, yesterday). It’s not OK to be first, only so that you can say “first!”
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
I support your point of view in this, Dave G. If people, some people anyway, fear they can’t recharge easily, they will be turned off purchasing an electric vehicle even though 99.99999% of their charging would be done at night. We don’t need to sell the public a “bill of goods” from either point of view. The hardest part here is properly educating the potential consumers. Many of us here are already educated to the fact that we don’t need any additional charging structure to support a EREV like the Chevrolet Volt. That is what is so cool about it and the Fisker Karma. I look forward to seeing thousands of these and others like them on the roads of North America. I hope the same is repeated around the globe.
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
If there is no mechanical linkage from the ICE to the wheels, than it is an electric vehicle. Whether the current from the generator that is connected to the ICE runs into the battery first or goes directly to the electric motors that drive the wheels, is really just splitting hairs.
In the Volt, think of the wires that are connected to the electric motors as being similar to our electric grid. They get power from two different sources, a battery or an ICE. You could conceivably add other power sources. such as a steam turbine, EESTOR, Radio Isotope Thermal generator, or Nuclear Reactor. None of these would change the car from being electric.
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Off topic…..a little.
GM India and Reva announce electric vehicle partnership
GM India and Reva have announced a partnership to develop an affordable electric car for the Indian market. Both companies have started feasibility studies that would use GM small car platforms to host co-developed drivetrains and control systems. The partnership is supported by the Indian Government, which is very interested in keeping under control the country’s expected increase in oil demand thanks to new low-cost cars such as the Tata Nano and a complete array of announced competitors, including a model by GM itself. Nevertheless, further details about the result of this partnership and a possible prototype are to be unveiled “soon,” with production expected to start in 2010.
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
That’s what I am saying! My thoughts exactly. Maybe they have been collecting fees and grants and pretty much doing nothing except keeping the web page updated (and Lyle can tell you how easy that is. (lol)) and holding annual conferences to ask for more fees and grants. Maybe … I don’t know.
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Excellent news. Thanks!
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September 24th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
actually, the term “hybrid” has come to be used for “hybrid drive” as in the Prius where both the electric motor and ICE power the wheels. In fact, EDTA’s definitions are for “drive”. I personally think that “hybrid” is a HORRIBLE term – there are hybrid drives, hybrid fuels, and hybrid-hybrids (plug-in Prius). The VOLT is DEFINITELY electric drive, but I would consider it hybrid-fuel. Further, EDTA’s definition doesn’t distinguish a VOLT from a Tesla – they’re both “BATTERY DRIVE”, although the VOLT is distinguished with its hybrid-fuel capability.
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September 25th, 2009 at 1:53 am
Uh, no. If you think Tesla did no engineering work then you obviously haven’t been paying attention to EVs at all or even to the Volt. They worked on the motor, power electronics, control for regen braking, traction control, battery pack temperature management, battery charging management, etc. These are the same things GM is spending most of its engineering time on for the Volt and basically the most important engineering to do if you want a refined EV (not just a garage conversion). What Tesla contracted out was NON-EV parts like chassis, body, interior, and the transmission (in the end they stuck with the single speed design), which makes sense since most of this stuff is standard/widespread and there are plenty of firms who can do the engineering on this part. To say they have done no engineering on their own is to be ignorant.
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September 25th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
We agree on this.
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September 25th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Agreed!
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September 25th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
I live in the Deep South also (Jackson, MS area). My 2000 Nissan Frontier Crew-Cab pickup has an Interstate battery that is a little over 5 years old and is working OK at this time. I guess I should start worrying about it pretty soon.
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September 25th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Was that a “lawn mower”? Souped up with a false looking mower deck? I guess the purpose was to see who could spin the tires the most and send up the most smoke. Awesome!
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September 25th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Better check the spelling for that “satik” respnse. It is not our Statik.
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