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Fisker Automotive Awarded $529 Million Loan to Build Plug-in Cars in USA

September 22nd, 2009 | Posted in: Competitors, E-REV

The US Department of Energy announced that they have awarded Fisker Automotive $528.7 million to be used for the development and assembly of plug-in electric cars in the United States.

The money is coming from the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loan program. In the first stage, Fisker will use $169.3 million for engineering integration costs as it works with US suppliers to complete and launch its first electric car, the luxurious Karma.

The next $359.36 million tranche will be used to design, develop, and assemble Fisker’s next generation car. This smaller more affordable plug-in hybrid will come forth from what is called project NINA. The goal price for the car is $39,000 after the $7500 tax credit.

Fisker estimates it will be able to sell from 75,000 to 100,000 plug-in vehicles per year beginning in late 2012. They also claim 5000 US jobs will be created and 821 million gallons of gas and 80 million tons of CO2 will be offset by these cars through 2016.

“This conditional loan represents a significant step in America’s future,” Henrik Fisker, the company’s CEO, said in a statement. “With it, Fisker Automotive can rapidly develop affordable, clean cars that satisfy our passion for driving and help restore the U.S. as an auto industry leader.”

“This investment will create thousands of new American jobs and is another critical step in making sure we are positioned to compete for the clean energy jobs of the future,” said US Energy Secretary Chu. “Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles could revolutionize personal transportation and cut our dependence on foreign oil, not to mention give us cleaner air and less carbon pollution.”

The Fisker Karma is set to launch in May 2010, and is a 4 seat 4 door extended range electric car that delivers 50 all electric miles, and has a 300 mile cruising range using its gas range extender. It does 0 to 60 in under 6 seconds, and the gas engine is being sourced from General Motors.

Source (Automotive News)

Posted by: Lyle

126 Responses to “Fisker Automotive Awarded $529 Million Loan to Build Plug-in Cars in USA”

+2 NoMoreSmoke Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:15 pm

More choices. This is great!. If I don’t fit in the Volt maybe Fisker will have a car for me. Chevy broke my heart last year when I finally got into a Camaro and found my head too close to the roof. Thanks for continuing to cover all the latest in transportation that uses less or no gasoline Lyle. Keep up the good work.

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Randy Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:23 pm

How much did tesla get,i think it was less than $529M

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Bigbird Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:28 pm

Good to see the EV is taking hold. The ICE has had 100+ yrs to get where it is, this kind of investment will mean we don’t have to wait 100 yr’s for EV’s

I can’t wait to get my Volt!

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DonC Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:29 pm

This is a very big nunber. Hopefully it will provide some competition in the category. Fisker is known for design so we might see a really innovative car, at least on the exterior.

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+1 Timaaayyy!!! Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:37 pm

I gotta git me one of dem dare e-lectronic car cump-nees, wile the git’ns good!

lol

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Jason M. Hendler Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:52 pm

No doubt Fisker can succeed with this type of loan. Their suppliers will also be ecstatic – Quantum Tech, Enerdel, etc.

This is great news for the US auto industry.

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Shoufeng Yang Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 8:08 pm

I see several problems.
1). Car is a big purchase, so customers (forget about those with too much $) will only buy from established companies with available spare parts and franchised repair shops.
2). Even the cheap PHEV is way too expensive for average customers and you can never recoup the premium of a large battery by saving fuels.
3). Competition from Japanese and possibly Government Motors.

The only positive news I got recently is that Obama abandoned NMD in Czech and Poland, this indicates that Iran is almost becoming a nuclear country with WMD and Obama begs the russians not to sell S300/S400 AAM to Iran. WMD in Iran itself is horrible, but will push up oil price and jump start the PHEV/EV business provided that the battery last long enough.
Ojoker certainly has too much borrowed money to spend, maybe the US dollar will crash in five years, and annual inflation will hit 60%, just like the Roman empire.
Can anyone answer this question? Why Honda and Toyota is very very conservative in this business while the Americans just about willing to hype anything?

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ClarksonCote Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 8:33 pm

Yes, Tesla was approved for “about $465 million”

http://www.teslamotors.com/media/press_room.php?id=1539

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ccombs Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 8:39 pm

Musk is hopping mad right now, I’m sure. But it is only fair to give Fisker money as well. They should have gotten more similar amounts though so nobody complains.

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+1 ccombs Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 8:47 pm

杨先生，while I agree with some of your points, IMHO the only thing that is going to save us from this crisis is radical innovation. That does not come from conservatism and generally does not come from large corporations (with some exceptions like the Volt). US companies have a history of making drastic decisions that turn out poorly, but have also made some very gutsy moves that have left their cautious competitors in the dust. Exhibit A I suppose would be the early age of computer companies. Let Fisker innovate and I think the results will be good for us all.

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+2 CorvetteGuy Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:08 pm

Southern California welcomes Fisker!
I hope they have plans for dealerships around here!

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-4 Shoufeng Yang Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:15 pm

>>>While I agree with you 100% that difficult time requires radical innovation, however you are certainly not a battery scientist, as there are so many ridiculous fraudulent claims every day popping out from every corner, this can’t be good. The battery science is limited by fundamentals that can’t be overcome.
>>>I strongly believe the future will lie in Fuel Cell and other technologies. Lithium battery, at best is a transition technology and its long-term viability has not been proven. It is prudent for private companies to be cautious, at the same time, aggressively pursuing development in this area secretly, just like the Japanese did. The Volt concept is very good, but technically it is flawed and has been rejected by Ford, Toyota and Honda, it is nothing but ballyhooed hypes designed to sway public opinion. Think about this: Can’t GM just be a little smart by revealing the EV range and MPG (55 mpg is still very good) during CS mode instead of bragging about the non-sense 230 mpg. Dare I declare here that 230 mpg will be a PR disaster in two years for Government Motors? If not handled well, it will crush the crap out of Bob Lutz. (I know more about their story, but declined to reveal here).

The energy crisis is somehow too big to tackle by a single entity (not entirely impossible), it requires long-term commitment, full dedication w/o the political, commercial crap going on all the time and possibly many many years hard-work. Energy revolution will not happen just because someone want it to happen. Maybe someday someone can invent a base metal to replace Pt, maybe a new supercapacitor with high energy density (Not sure if you can trust EEStor), maybe other fundamental breakthrough. The overall trend of sexing up every bit piece of work by academia, industry and government entity to meet short-term expectation is serving no good to achieve the goal of energy independence, it is extremely poisonous to that goal.

ccombs: Dare you reveal your full name here?

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+1 carcus1 Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:19 pm

If by “succeed” you mean “burn through 500 million” I’d say that’s pretty much guaranteed.

If by “succeed” you mean “bring an affordable electric car to market while employing thousands of americans in a solid profitable business” , well, . . . . I’d say don’t hold your breath.

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+1 Texas Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:22 pm

See, the government can make great investments once in a while. God speed Fisker!

I think we are witnessing the birth of perhaps two of the next big American auto makers (Tesla and Fisker). Can the old guard with their obsolete infrastructure and oppressive labor unions compete with them on Car 2.0? It doesn’t look good. Not half as good looking as that Karma or Tesla Model S. Damn!

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+2 Texas Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:27 pm

Karma’s chassis is aluminum with composite body. That’s a step in the right direction. Light weighting will be key to not only getting maximum energy efficiency but maximum performance. Go Fisker!

Note: GM fans can love the Karma as well because it uses a GM engine.

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+1 Helmut Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:48 pm

Yeah, government is brilliant, just look at the shining successes of Fannie and Freddie. This is exactly what we need, let’s piss away another billion to fund competitors to GM, which we just bought. Brilliant! This is free enterprise at it’s best, the government decides which technologies are worth pursuing, chooses which companies to fund to produce said technologies then sits back and more than likely is never repaid.

At least the Fisker will have some exclusivity and novelty to it, if they manage to style the car well and make it outperform a mid-level accord it may even be competitive at 39k, probably not though.

You know, I wouldn’t have one bad thing to say about Volt, Fisker or Tesla if I weren’t involuntarily supporting them. Want to know how I know all these cars will be nothing more than niche halo cars? Because if there were a viable commercial market, none of the companies would need federal dollars. Venture capitalists and wealthy investors would see the opportunity and back them.

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+3 Helmut Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:48 pm

Yeah, $0.

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+5 Herm Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:58 pm

Its a lot of money to give to a startup manufacturer, and one that manufactures its cars in Finland.. I guess a new era of never ending subsidies has begun.

If they want to promote electric cars to increase energy security, increase the battery fed credit and institute a cash-for-clunkers that only applies to electric cars.. and good for several years. Mandate chargers on every parking space in large cities.. all that should generate lots of jobs.

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+4 EVNow Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:15 pm

Yes – I don’t see why govt should spend a penny on EV.

Govt should just spend trillions guarding middle east oil and the like. Thats it.

ps : If we keep buying oil at the rate we do, by end of the next decade middle east soveriegn funds will have enough money to buy atleast 20% of every S&P 500 company and thus get a director on the board.

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+6 LauraM Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:33 pm

Venture capitalists invested plenty of money in Tesla. And I believe there’s quite a bit of private investment in Fisker Karma as well. The problem, IMHO, is that the credit markets seized up for a while, and venture capital is basically dead right now.

However, if we want them to do their manufacturing here, we need to give them an incentive in the form of low interest loans, tax credits, or even outright grants. If we won’t do it, other countries will. The US government needs to do that with more companies, not less, if we have any hope of reviving our hollowed out manufacturing sector.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_38/b4147046115750.htm

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+3 Sam Y Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:37 pm

“Fisker estimates it will be able to sell from 75,000 to 100,000 plug-in vehicles per year beginning in late 2012.”

Wow…IF, & that’s a big IF, Fisker can pull this off…GM take notice! Even a novice car company is planning to build more plug-in E-REVs than you are! And they’ll pull it off, I’m sure; the integration of ICE into an EV is not THAT difficult, except the all-important software to control everything. Like everyone says, the devil is in the details, and that’s where they MAY lose some brownie points…(though some people will forgive them & not judge them on level par with already established giants like GM)

GM, ramp up your VOLT #s to 100K in 2012 or this would not be such a game-changer…I read the story where GM execs envisioned an iCar…well, remember, Apple sold a LOT of iPods…10K initial volume or even 60K/yr is gonna do nothing…

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Jorge Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:03 pm

And $0 for GM also.

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+1 Frank B Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:09 pm

It’s great to have more and this one looks great too! It’s too bad GM gave up on style and looks. Style counts, boldness counts, making a statement matters. As it stands now, GM will be introducing the Volt in the 2011 model year that looks like 90% of the cars on the road today. They should have stayed with their concept car or at least stayed closer to it. But that’s just me I guess. However the Converj looks great too, which I guess means it won’t ever happen. I’m a strong GM supporter but sometimes they really make it hard to stay that way.

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+32 Bruce Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:10 pm

Nice. A beautiful, EREV, American made car without all the baggage that comes with GM.

Where do I sign up!

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+1 CDAVIS Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:26 pm

_______________________________________________
CorvetteGuy,

Fisker has a surprising large number of established group franchise dealer groups across the United States (example is the very respected Shelly Automotive Group out of Orange County California) that are in the process of building out a Fisker dealership in preparation of the 2010 Fisker rollout…this aggressive National build-out event is mostly under radar. The Fisker retail channel model is very different than a traditional franchise model in that the Fisker franchisee/distributor will have demo cars in the Fisker dealership showrooms but retail cars will be delivered post customer order to the Fisker dealerships meaning that the Fisker dealerships will not carry retail inventory. The very large scale in which Fisker is actively building out a dealer network and how that dealer network will operate may be a post topic worthwhile for Lyle to investigate and report on. The Fisker model from manufacturing to retail may prove to be a game changer.
_____________________________________________

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+7 Muhammad Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:45 pm

It doesn’t come with GM baggage — only a GM engine

They use GM’s engine, used in the Cobalt SS. Enjoy … it’s a great engine

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+2 Texas Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:32 am

“I strongly believe the future will lie in Fuel Cell and other technologies.”

“ccombs: Dare you reveal your full name here?”

Don’t fool us with that “Yang” name, you sound like a FED! lol

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+4 DaV8or Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:43 am

Over 100 years ago, when the first cars hit the road, the government gave exactly zero money to the start up car companies. They also didn’t do a thing to save them when some of them failed. Money was raised back then by convincing venture capitalists and private investors that they just had an incredible product that was going to make them a whole bunch of money. Consumers proved whether or not they were correct in their bet. The government sat by and did nothing.

Today I have to wonder, why these new start ups can’t raise a half a billion dollars without the government and why it is that a new company can’t just get one car to market, successfully sell it and make a profit and then start a second product? Why do they feel compelled to go head to head with the big boys before they have even proven they have what it takes to be a viable car company?

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+2 jeffhre Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:58 am

“Today I have to wonder, why these new start ups can’t raise a half a billion dollars without the government and why it is that a new company can’t just get one car to market, successfully sell it and make a profit and then start a second product? Why do they feel compelled to go head to head with the big boys before they have even proven they have what it takes to be a viable car company?”

Would be nice if life or even industrial production were simple. 100 hundred years ago many investors may have felt things would inevitably be so simple, but the fact is that each of the thousands of auto related companies that failed at that time represents the savings of investors who were completely wiped out.

Should we not make investments like these in the aftermath of a worldwide credit crisis, countries that are more motivated to take advantage of emerging innovations and opportunities will continue to grow their manufacturing base and keep increasing our balance of trade deficits.

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+7 jeffhre Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 1:05 am

Yeah and $0 for AIG and $0 for Wall Street!!!! Who needs car companies, insurance companies and investment firms in a worldwide economic collapse any way. If Bush and Obama gave you what you wanted, cars would be unnecessary because enough Great Depression style charity soup kitchens would be built to be within walking distance for nearly all Americans.

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+5 omnimoeish Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 2:13 am

Good point, electric vehicles would definitely not take 100 years to beat out ICE vehicle methinks, but we are very well looking at 30 years to get to where they are the new vehicle of choice by most consumers, hopefully these loans, which are drops in the bucket compared to the US’s oil addiction pay outs will cut that time in half or so. I think we might have 15 years, but definitely not 30. The time to fix this problem that our government has perpetuated by keeping gas prices artificially low through military presence in the middle east has got to come to an end soon.

I think Chu has a plan for the US’s energy situation. We need to give hefty tax incentives to those who buy plug in vehicles (up to $7,500 tax rebate). We need to fund and treat battery research companies like royalty, they are the ones making the real break-throughs. We need to give emerging plug in vehicle makers a hefty boost to make sure they can do what they are trying to do and don’t get squashed by the (ending) cheap oil that we currently enjoy. We can pick some of the low hanging fruit by making a cash for clunkers system that gets a lot of the gas guzzlers off the road. We need to help our established auto makers stay on their feet as long as they are willing to play ball (CAFE standards, plug in vehicles, etc.). We need to make sure specs for plug ins are set (J-1772). We need to make sure people are aware of the problem (this to some extent has been done, but I predict much more will be done by the DOE and Chu once there are actual cars like the LEAF, the Karma, the Tesla Model S, and the Volt of course are in showrooms). Then slowly pull out of the middle east, allowing these countries to either sink or swim, if countries like Iraq and Afghanistan do become controlled by terrorists or whatever, we have technology to fall back on.

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tim-the-dreamer Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 3:29 am

Hey Lyle,

Thought I’d share something with ya. Before I came to work (9-22-09), I caught a preview of the local news from Alabama here in the Fl. panhandle. They were talking about a new car factory comming to the area (we’ll see), and they showed part of the vehicle silohete. Funny, I recognized it right away anyhow. Maybe they shouldn’t have shown part of that distinctive grill. Guess it ain’t gonna be made in Finland only, huh? Hope they (Bama) don’t frak up like Fl. did. Alot of folks could use the jobs. For those who might wonder, twas the Karma.

Have a good’n.

tim.

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FME III Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 3:54 am

Fisker’s dealer approach makes sense for a niche manufacturer. It raises questions, though:
1. Will the traditional car-buying public be put off my not being able to drive off the lot with their new car?
2. Servicing & maintenance?

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Gsned57 Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 5:31 am

I’m pretty sure the new fisker model is going to be called the Sutra couldn’t resist.

When GM got their bailout before going belly up last year I was pissed but the only light in my eyes was the volt. The fact that we are loaning Fisker a fraction of what GM/Chrysler got for a volt type vehicle seems like a sweet deal in comparison. They’re going to have lots of heartburn trying to get a startup car company going, but if ever there was a time in the last 50 years to do it in America I think this is probably that time. I also like the fact that they’re sourcing a lot of the more complex components from sources that are proven at doing it (the ICE from GM). Good luck to Fisker. I hope I see my loan money come back some day.

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nuclearboy Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 5:44 am

Good points…

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RamZ Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 7:07 am

>>CorvetteGuy Says:

Southern California welcomes Fisker!

I hope they have plans for dealerships around here!
———————————————————————–
They list a number of Southern California Dealerships on their website, Orange County, Pasadena and San Diego.

http://www.fiskerautomotive.com

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-3 zipdrive Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 7:22 am

This may come under the heading “promote the general Welfare” in the preamble to the Constitution. Just to give the broad perspective on this.

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common Defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

It actually could be Constitutionally mandated if you get the drift of the Founding Fathers.

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+2 zipdrive Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 7:24 am

I just wish that gorgeous car was assembled in America. Well, at least the engine in it is made by GM.

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Jason M. Hendler Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 7:31 am

I read an interesting point that the ICE beat the EV and steam car, because of Henry Ford’s innovative manufacturing approach using an assembly line to build the Model T.

This demonstrates how the business model is as much or more important than the technology. Had Henry Ford used his assembly line for EV’s or steam powered cars, things could have been quite different.

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JohnJ Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 7:47 am

Personally I’d welcome it. The salesman’s classic “what would it take for you to drive this home today” would vanish. Pressure to BUY NOW would be radically reduced if not eliminated.

Of course, if the time from order to delivery takes more than 3-4 weeks, it could put some people off.

Overall I like the model. Dealer costs are minimal as they need much less real estate; just a show room, service department, and small parking lot to float vehicles between delivery & pickup. Also, they would probably need fewer sales drones; maybe only one or two more people than they have demo drivers.

Alas, their price range is beyond what I’m willing to pay.

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+1 Murray Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:01 am

I contend that Fisker got more $$ than Tesla because somebody actually did some research and realized that Tesla’s approach using pure BEV, while certianly should be supported and offered as a choice, is just not as viable for wider acceptance as Fisker’s approach using EREV… that plus the fact that Fisker uses GM’s engine explains to me why Fisker was given a larger pile.

Lets all remember this is at least labeled as a LOAN …. so there is at least “potential” for some sort of return.

I cannot WAIT to see Fisker’s $39k model … are there ANY early sketches or secret spy photos of blueprints in existence? Please Lyle please keep us posted on the Fisker model that at least a few more us might be able to actually consider as I’m certainly NOT someone who can even think about paying $80 or even $60 thousand dollars on a car.

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Murray Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:04 am

So the glass is half …..

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Peter M Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:06 am

No, government shouldn’t be investing directly in automotive markets. If we are spending trillions guarding middle east oil, then we need to increase the cost of oil. All this investment is wasted if oil stays at $2.50 a gallon because gas cars will be cheaper.

The market needs to decide what the next great technology is.

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+4 Tagamet Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:11 am

zipdrive,
If the founding fathers’ “drift” was to promote the general welfare with govt (read our) money they left no other clue to that intent. Sorry, but this is a very weak argument, IMO.
Be well,
Tagamet

Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS

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+2 Jason M. Hendler Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:14 am

As stated elsewhere in this thread, poor government policies led to the freezing of the capital markets, so they are then responsible for providing capital until the markets resume their normal operation. Making loans to companies with strategic technologies / products, especially within the energy and transportation industries, is the best move our government could make.

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+1 Tagamet Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:18 am

DonC,
Thanks for pointing out that this is a LOT of money! Seriously, we’ve gotten so use to throwing around the word BILLION, a “few hundred million” “sounds” like chump change – and it’s NOT. Whew.
I feel a little better now (g).
Be well,
Tagamet

Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS

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Kevmark58 Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:29 am

Texas……

Labor unions are not oppressive. It takes two to tango and it just so happened that both labor and management got themselves into contracts that were unsustainable. The union is going to negotiate in the best interests of its members and same for the company. If the company settles on an agreement that isn’t so good, how is that the union’s fault? They asked and they received. That’s what negotiating is all about, give and take. Somehow we have lost sight of the good that unions bestow on Americans. It wasn’t that long ago (early 1980’s) that the USA was assisting unions in Poland to better their working conditions and help overthrow Communism. Did you forget that from your history classes?

That being said, you enjoy the safety of your workplace, higher wages, and way of life due to the advances UNIONS won against OPPRESSIVE and GREEDY corporations during the early to mid-20th century. Think about that when you go to your clean work environment and receive that paycheck. It was unionized labor that transformed the horrors of the 19th century workplace into what we have today. You should be supportive, not condemning. They are not the bogey men some politicians have made them out to be!

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+2 Starcast Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:33 am

Right on the money Tag!

In fact the tenth Amendment (part of the bill of rights)states:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

“if you get the drift of the Founding Fathers.” They were pretty clear they wanted very limited federal government. They did not want it to expand as it has.

Zip your right about one thing we need to listen to our Founding Fathers.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:40 am

GM will not ‘ramp up’ to 100k + volumes until Gen 2 (but I honestly believe they can’t wait for Gen 3 to ramp up.

I think they are painfully aware of this fact.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:43 am

This one Frank B, is a $90k car.

It BETTER look great.

The people who can afford this car honestly don’t care how much gas costs.

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Loboc Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:45 am

I was thinking recently (I think I posted it here) that the new car companies will build-to-order like buying a Dell.

It makes perfect sense to open a showroom with only demos and then produce an exact fit product for the customer.

The old car companies have already fallen under their own weight. They may recover, but, they need to look at these new guys’ business model.

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-2 Texas Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:48 am

“As stated elsewhere in this thread, poor government policies led to the freezing of the capital markets,”

Is that what Rush is telling his followers these days? It never stops amazing me what BS people will fall for. Did the government make all those banks make all those risky loans and create all of those shady investments?

I guess when you want to believe something so much you will justify anything to anyone, as long as it keeps your faith. Don’t worry Jason, all the events that happened last year was all caused by the Democrats… Sleep well.

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+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:51 am

The problem Kevmark58 is that the rest of us in the world are getting VERY tired of whining from people who get $90 an hour to put on a wingnut and who much too often do it wrong (MUCH more often than on the Toyota lines for example) and CAN’T be fired for incompetence.

That my friend is what I see wrong with the ‘modern’ “union”.

I have little to no repect for the UAW/CAW.

In a perfect world when GM did the bankrupsy they should have ’shed’ the unions and hired directly when they exited.

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+2 JackFlash Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:55 am

The engine, interior, and most of the car is manufactured in the US, it’s just the chassis that is manufactured in Finland. Most of the “LOAN” is to go toward the new car which will most likely be built here.

From their webpage…

“Fisker Automotive is a green American premium sports car company with a mission to create a range of beautiful environmentally friendly cars that make environmental sense without compromise.”

They outsource a lot of the parts on the first car because it makes sense, it’s nothing new and all car companies do the same thing. I would think most people would be happy that the US is leading the way on the electrification of the car…apparently not.

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+2 MuddyRoverRob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:57 am

That’s exactly right…

There is all this “I hate GM” stuff going on and almost NOBODY is talking about the real culprits in the finance mentdown… collectively called Wall Street.

GM got a pittance compared to AIG.

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+4 Texas Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:01 am

Kevmark58 wrote:

“Texas……

Labor unions are not oppressive”

Really? Please go tell the union that you would like to move the factories to southern states that have better tax codes and that you would like to use the best robotic technology known to man to automate many new tasks.

What is that sound you hear? Yes, that’s the sound of a strike.

Labor unions have their place, when companies are making people into slaves. However, their time has gone. If our companies cannot compete on labor cost, even on our own soil, then something is terribly wrong.

When someone gets paid over $70 per hour to put lug nuts on a car when another American citizen would gladly do it for minimum wage then the markets are not free. In a free market the workers should feel free to move around and pick the best employer. If they are not treated well, they can call on national programs to make sure standard regulations are followed. If that fails, they should then quit and go work somewhere else. If all of that fails then bring in the unions. If a modern company needs a union, they deserve it.

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Loboc Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:02 am

There were other car companies that never made it out of start-up mode. DeLorean and Bricklin come to mind. Tucker earlier.

This is a very risky business. Building some momentum in the form of sales and support is very expensive.

Hopefully, Fisker and Tesla can do something that hasn’t been done in a while.

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CorvetteGuy Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:05 am

If the car is worth the wait, 3 to 4 weeks is nothing. Trying to keep customers motivated and happy for 3 to 4 MONTHS has been the challenge with Camaros. Angry customers love to take their frustration with the factory out on the sales department. And GM has doubled their expectations on CSI results.

Attention Consumers: It is not my fault the factory is still backordered by 10 weeks or more… Thank you for your cooperation and patience.

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+1 CorvetteGuy Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:09 am

Pumping out 100K cars is not the issue. The question is how many off the line will have quality control problems. GM is taking their time to avoid recalls. The quality will show in the final product.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:13 am

Interestingly enough that’s how Land Rover have built for years.

Every build is to a “recipe”.

The dealers just put in ’stock’ orders.

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+1 Kevmark58 Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:15 am

Where in God’s name did you get $90 per hour? That’s not even close. Toyota workers make about $26 per hour. GM line workers make about $28 though all new hires are now brought in at $14. This is the problem….falsehoods spread to justify that unions are bad. Nobody on production lines in America’s auto plants make $90 per hour. Here is recent research on it in 2007. Since then it’s been less per hour, not more….

According to the Indianapolis Star:
Base wages average about $28 an hour. GM officials say the AVERAGE reaches $39.68 an hour, including base pay, cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday and vacation pay. Health-care, pension and other benefits average another $33.58 an hour, GM says. –

September 26, 2007 Striking back at globalization. By Ted Evanoff

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+1 Comcastic Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:18 am

This is great news however they should have taken some of those BILLIONS that GM has thrown down the toilet and redirected it to promising companies like Fisker. GM’s track record is horrendous and GM CONTINUES TO LOSE BILLIONS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS. When will this madness end. I say let GM go under and give ALL the money to Fisker, Tesla, Nissan, etc. These companies at least have a clue about what they are doing and are actually HIRING American Workers. GM is shifting all new employment overseas while slashing American workforce. I thought the bailout was to save American Jobs, guess NOT.

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+1 jeffhre Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:24 am

I contend that Fisker got more than Tesla because Fisker asked for more when they submitted their appliction. (just guessing)

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Johnny Mac Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:26 am

I believe Tesla is already profitable, so I think small companies can do this very well.

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sudhaman Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:29 am

fisker must build the cars in CALIFORNIA and not somewhere else. perhaps how can they sell 75000 cars per year of the karma. that would be too expensive. may be they can sell the $39000 one.

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+5 StevePA Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:29 am

Texas – Kudos for confronting the nonsense. Even though I have always considered myself “conservative” in matters fiscal / economic and social, agree with your characterization of what “people will fall for”. Same thing with the health care debate and the “Republican” (my party) position, if one can characterize zero as a position.

It still amazes that so many people choose to ignore that certain foreign governments have long invested in their domestic car makers, and hampered competition from outsiders. Those same people will readily buy autos from those foreign manufacturers. Now that the U.S. Government has invested in GM and Chrysler, the three are pariahs.

Hopefully the $300MM+ going to domestic production of Fisker’s second model will be a successful investment.

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CDAVIS Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:30 am

______________________________________________________

Breaking News…regarding LG Chem (maker of the Volt battery).

Source: MIT Technology Review

“In an advance that could help electric vehicles run longer between charges, researchers have shown that silicon nanotube electrodes can store 10 times more charge than the conventional graphite electrodes used in lithium-ion batteries…Researchers at Stanford University and Hanyang University in Ansan, Korea, are developing the nanotube electrodes in collaboration with LG Chem, a Korean company that makes lithium-ion batteries, including those used in the Chevy Volt…”

Source Link:
http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/23516/?nlid=2373&a=f
______________________________________________________

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+2 Roger Ramjet Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:33 am

Agree 110 percent. GM has massive loads of garbage in their trunk. And if they have problems/delays with GM engine they can swap with another provider at will. woot.

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+2 MuddyRoverRob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:36 am

According to the Indianapolis Star:
Base wages average about $28 an hour. GM officials say the AVERAGE reaches $39.68 an hour, including base pay, cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday and vacation pay. Health-care, pension and other benefits average another $33.58 an hour, GM says. –

————————————————————–

I stand corrected, by your own reference it’s $73.26 an hour.
($39.68 + $33.58)
I get that the ‘take home’ portion is more like $28 an hour.

This is the REASON a poorly “union” assembled car costs so much.
(With a union in place you can’t fire deadwood, (bad workers) don’t deny it this is a fact)

Drop the union overhead and drop the labour cost 50% or more.
The workers would STILL have the same take home pay.

The customer buying the new union-less Volt wins.

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Johann Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:37 am

The banks have both sides by their balls. Focus on the investment banks, and the federal reserve, not Obama or Bush. That just keeps you where they want you, looking at the “leader” instead of the puppet master.

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Lido Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:38 am

Ya, Henry’s mass production techniques made the car affordable to many more people. Many of these manufacturing methods are still in use today. Can you say Just-In-Time-Manufacturing.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:41 am

A good point Corvetteguy!

I was refering to the “cost reduced” Gen 2 car being profitable. (didn’t explain that very well though)

Absolutely quality is the highest priority!

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Marty McFly Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:41 am

DeLorean was the bomb. (Stay tuned for the movie). He’s downfall was choosing crappy GM components in his beautiful cars. That Chevy V8 was so underpowered it hurt sales.

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Kevmark58 Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:44 am

Yes you can fire workers…it happens all the time now. In the 70’s and 80’s…it didn’t…that is fact. Not now.

Also, if you add in YOUR benefit package into your hourly rate I’m sure it’s up there too!

That being said, we work off of hourly rate for most purposes when discussing what people make.

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carcus1 Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:51 am

I could attack this in about 10 different ways, but I’ll stick to just one here.

There are better ways to spend all this auto loan money if the goal is to shift from petroleum to electricity.

Taxpayers are estimated to be on the hook for 155 billion between auto bailouts and the ATVM loan program.
- It’s likely at least 1/2 of this money will never come back.

– So what if 75 billion (about 1/2 of 155 billion) was applied towards a $5,000 tax credit for anyone who buys a car with a plug.
– Car sales will likely not be above about 10 million per year in the U.S. for the foreseeable future. If 10% of these cars had plugs that would be highly optimistic. Sooo….
- At 1 million plug ins per year (10% of 10 million) times a 5,000 tax credit, it would cost the government (you and me) 5 billion per year.
- That would be 15 years (75/5) of 5,000 tax credits for any U.S. taxpayer who bought a plug in.

The government favoritism would be towards the energy source, NOT towards any particular design or manufacturer. This would benefit all the manufactures of plug ins — more free market, more competition, more cars with plugs on the road.

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Bootie Camp Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:53 am

May 2010 will be here sooner than you think. This should be a Wake-Up Call for GM who has been dragging their sorry asses on Volt development using mainly already designed components. There is no reason but incompetence for their delays. Hopefully a major shakeup will occur in about 9 weeks.

Fisker FTW !

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Neutron Flux Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:55 am

According to the Preamble you just quoted our government is to secure Liberty to the People of the United States. So why are we in Afganistan, they are not the 51st State? Don’t say 9/11. If our Congress would comply with Article 4 Section 4 & secure our borders & watched who was coming in the front door, let alone the back we would not have had 9/11. Last I checked Afganistan was not floating with oil anyway. Our war was supposed to be against Al Qaida not the Taliban. Amazing how the military industrial complex works, Democrats who campaigned against it are only too happy to fund it now that they are getting kick backs too. Putting the Volt & other electric cars on the road at an affordable price will reduce foreign dependency on oil but will not eliminate corruption at the highest levels of Government. If we charged the cost of the war to the price of all imported oil it would have ended many years ago & the Volt would have been in mass production over a 2 years ago with gas over $5.00/gallon. We subsidize fuel costs at the deteriment of new technology. If Volt tech is ever to mature to be affordable to the masses we need to stop subsidizing the cost of oil. All money spent to get it, including troops and ships in middle east should be charged to it!

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+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:00 am

From the workers standpoint I understand your position of hourly only.

I am GLAD they can now dump deadwood GM is in a bad place at least partly due to very badly built product.

My point had to do with the selling price of the car (the Volt in this case) so the ENTIRE package is absolutely relevant because I the consumer pay for it!

There are pensions and there are gold plated pensions and then there are auto UNION pensions which are only eclipsed by CEO pensions.

Yes I’m bitter.

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Jaime Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:00 am

This kind of startup innovation is what made our country great.

Go Fisker, Go Tesla, Go USA!!

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+1 Jason M. Hendler Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:01 am

Texas,

Risk is relative. Many of those investments were sound, assuming credit is cheap and plentiful. Once capital became scarce, investments were compared relative to one another and those with more risk lost to those with less risk. To call something high risk or low risk in absolute terms is meaningless without understanding the economic circumstances of the day.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:08 am

It’s too bad that Marty the troll didn’t do his homework.

The Delorean used a Renault 6 cylinder engine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLorean_DMC-12

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Super Battery Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:08 am

Breaking News:

Frod Battery Company based in downtown New York city (85 Broad St.) reports todat that they have invented a new cathode material with a capacity more than 4300 mAh/g at an average discharge voltage of 7.5V when combined with graphite. The energy density of the new cathode is about 23 Kwh/Kg, 50 times more than NMC based cathode material. 18650 battery based on this material achieved an energy density of 18 Kwh/Kg. The battery can also achieve a high rate discharge exceeding 500 Kw/Kg, and the most interesting property is that there is absolutely no heat generated from fast discharge, and the battery can also be charged at rate more than 200C. During demonstration, a battery pack (15 Kwh) of 5 Kg (including BMS, TMS) onboard a Toyota Prius achieved 300 miles. The battery can also be charged in only 30 second to reach 99% SOC. The cost of the battery is also expected to be only $50/Kwh. Prototype battery have been cycled at 100C for over 5,000,000 cycles with capacity loss less than 1%.

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+1 N Riley Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:10 am

I would be extremely surprised if Fisker could sell 75,000 to 100,000 cars per year. Maybe I am wrong, but I just don’t see it unless they get the cost much lower than $46,500 before the $7,500 tax rebate. Not at that price. There just isn’t enough buyers. Unless gas ends up costing over $6.00 per gallon. Lots of ifs. Maybe too many.

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-1 Scooter Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:11 am

Where is Toyota’s money ? Say $10 billion. Come on Obama spread the love. It’s only fair that the world’s leading automotive company get a fair shake.

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-1 Scooter Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:12 am

You forgot Go Nissan, Go Ford.

No thanks needed Mister Alzheimer.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:12 am

You are a busy under bridge dweller this morning.

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+1 LauraM Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:13 am

First of all, the unions had all the power in the negotiations. Strikes cost GM (and the other auto companies) billions of dollars in lost revenues. There is a reason why the UAW got better and better deals as GM’s balance sheet got weaker and weaker. (Yes, I know the UAW made concessions in the past 10 years when GM’s failure became immanent. But they were too little too late.)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20957632/

Basically, by negotiating with the “greedy” corporations, they negotiated their company right out of competitiveness and into bankruptcy. Sorry, I don’t see the benefit there to anyone. When you unionize against your boss, it creates an us against them attitude. And the truth is? It’s supposed to be both of you against Toyota and Honda. That’s how it works in private companies. It’s not supposed to be a zero sum game. And when you make it one, the company as a whole suffers.

And now they’re unionized against the US taxpayer, and they retain their sense of entitlement. We bailed your company out. And your jobs and retirement benefits with it. And your salary is still much higher than the national average!

My problem with the UAW actually isn’t the higher salaries though. When the companies had the profits to pay them, it made sense.

My problem is fighting technological unemployment (which is a fast route to rendering the company obsolete). Refusing to let the auto companies fire incompetant workers. And demanding retirement at the completely unrealistic age of 48. As well as pensions, health benefits, and life insurance for life. It’s one thing to demand a percentage of present profits. It’s another to demand your share of future profits.

There’s an excellent book on this called “As America Aged: How pensions debt ruined General Motors.”

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Scooter Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:14 am

Good to see the Koreans leading the Charge !

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Kevmark58 Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:15 am

You can’t go into the whole pension thing either anymore. The time of gold plated pensions you speak of have passed. Many, many union workers are facing reduced and eliminated pensions so the only ones left with those types are the CEO’s of which you speak. NOT the rank and file worker. Please do some research. The bitterness must be let go of. It is not the way you think it is any longer.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:15 am

Proof please.

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CDAVIS Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:17 am

______________________________________________________
FYI, LG Chem is no “Frod” Battery Co./EEStor.
______________________________________________________

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Kevmark58 Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 am

Careful of your assumptions. I do not work for GM nor in the automotive field at all. Assumptions and stereotypes are your problem.

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Super Battery Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:21 am

It is trade secret right now, the product will be demonstrated before Congress in the near future!

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Naddy Caddy Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:22 am

Henrik Fisker and Elon Musk, you sirs are the true pioneers in this space. Congratulations. You deserve every penny and more. Just keep the pressure on those clowns over at Big Auto, without you guys leading the way there would be no Volt and no other EVs coming. Thanks for your hard work and dedication.

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JackFlash Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:23 am

A conservative voice of reason from my former home state, your party could sure use more people of a like minded disposition Steve, kudos to you.

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Tall Pete Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:26 am

That can – and maybe will – be done. But before building an infrastructure, you need a car to use it. I’m pretty sure they didn’t build paved roads BEFORE we had enough cars that needed it, back then when we had horses.

So it makes sense to first help create an offering of electric cars. First thing first.

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+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:27 am

I honestly hope you are telling the truth.

BUT

The only evidence I have as a consumer is the end product.

My new 1988 GM car was painted badly and was badly assembled. (Olds Calais as if that matters)

My current commuter car is a Malibu, it’s reliable but the assembly was only good certainly not great.

I’m the customer and therefore I’m right unless you go out of your way to prove you (meaning GM/The Union) are better than I think you are.

I want a Volt, but I’m NOT sure I want a union built Volt.
There is a lot of very dirty water under that bridge.

I’m the customer, I don’t HAVE TO research whether the union is evil this week or not. I can assume it is and consider other options.

You say the unions have cleaned up their act, I say prove it.

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+4 Tall Pete Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:32 am

“The market needs to decide what the next great technology is.” says Peter M.

Actually, the market is flawed because we don’t account the cost of guarding the middle east oil in the price of gas. If we did, the gallon would already be at more than 5$ and people would beg for the electric technology to be available since it would make economic sense.

If you want a true market, let’s have one. The govt should make sure that each user of oil is paying the actual price; that includes the military, the roads (that are more often than not subsidized), the health costs of oil pollution, etc.

Then, we’ll let the market decide.

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Kevmark58 Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:37 am

I agree with you. I have been burned on several US, union built cars over the years. My 1978 Malibu Classic was a complete disaster. Lifters collapsing, power windows failing, gas in the oil pan constantly….it was awful. My AMC Eagle was another failure as was my Chevy Vega….that was a nightmare.

That said, I have faith in the American worker, truly I do. I am getting a Volt come hell or high water. That car is most likely going to come off the line in near pristine state, that is my true feelings on it. GM can’t afford a miss, not even a small one. The workers know it too and they aren’t going to put their livelihoods on the line either. I think it will be an excellent car.

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Jay Winthrop III Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:39 am

Good to see more battery innovation. Anything has to be better than that lame GM t-shaped monstrosity using old-school lithium design. I am sure their will be many batteries that will show that the GM battery was utter crap.

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Tall Pete Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:48 am

You and I, as consumers, have two choices regarding cars

1) The price is affordable and we buy the car

2) The price is higher than we want to pay and we don’t buy

If we don’t buy, the wages will tend to go down so the price can drop. If we buy, it means we somehow approve of the manufacturing.

P.S. The workers are not what cost a lot in a car. This discussion have been done over and over again. They deserve what they earn.

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Richard Holder Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:59 am

That is an awesome vehicle. Good to see that many Americans will get a chance to purchase such a fine example of automotive engineering excellence. GM fanboys need not apply.

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Tall Pete Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:59 am

I’m quite sure that Henry Ford didn’t think of Just-In-Time manufacturing back then…

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Tall Pete Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 11:02 am

I was about to write the same

DeLorean had problems but GM can’t be blamed for them.

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+1 Tall Pete Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 11:05 am

Any big corporation is moving slow, simply because in case of a lawsuit, it’s gonna cost a bunch.

Any new corporation can move fast since they have nothing to lose if they don’t make it. So they take chances and sometimes it works. Often times it don’t.

I prefer GM to be slow and cautious. But according to Toyota, bringing the Volt to market in 3 years was damn fast – they thought it couldn’t be done. So GM is as fast as can be for a big corporation, even faster than what can be expected.

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Richard Holder Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 11:07 am

Actually the GM engine is prolly the worst part of this well designed car. They might want to shop for ICE options for future production models. Just a thought. Aluminum frame is a nice innovative touch.

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Tall Pete Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 11:09 am

Oh ! Please…

“Reports today” now means it’s a secret no one should know ?

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Tall Pete Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 11:11 am

They don’t need it to compete.

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Richard Holder Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 11:12 am

You forget to point out that all those industries (auto,insurance,banking,brokering,etc) already have many smaller profitable companies that could have taken up the void from the Too Big To Fail corporations had they been allowed to go under. It’s called Capitalism and the governments action short-circuited it’s built-in mechanism for self-correction. Shame on the U.S. Government.

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-2 Richard Holder Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 11:14 am

Your contention fails and you must really work at keeping your doofus head away from your anal area. Please gives us a physical break.

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Goob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 11:17 am

And while you are “waiting” for your Volt many more Americans will already be driving their Fisker supercar and grinning ear-to-ear in your general direction.

May 2010 << November 2010

Fisker + 1

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Goob Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 11:27 am

The market has never decided the price of oil. At least not since the mid seventies. It cost less than $1 per barrel of oil out of Saudi Arabia. So we should really be paying around 25 cents a gallon or whatever it is in Kuwait. The market is currently being manipulated by speculators and that is a problem. Those guys are taking home huge bonuses while keeping oil prices artificially high for their own (and their company’s) greed. See Wall Street 2 coming to a theater near you soon.

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+2 LauraM Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 11:47 am

I apologize for assuming that you’re a member of the UAW.

But, then, how do you know things like “Yes you can fire workers…it happens all the time now. In the 70’s and 80’s…it didn’t…that is fact. Not now.” And the “time of gold plated pensions you speak of have passed?”

As far as stereotypes–I never said that every worker was lazy, or deserved to be fired. But every time you have a group of workers, there’s usually a few that aren’t as good as the others. In private practice? They’re fired. With unions? They’re not. Just look at how much more successful charter schools are than unionized schools.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/22/education/22charters.html?scp=2&sq=charter%20schools&st=cse

In the new UAW contract, it still requires six days unexplained absenses before the the workers can be fired. It does not take that much at Honda and Toyota.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124389995447074461.html

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Texas Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:12 pm

Does that include wrapping up low grade loans into a AAA sounding package? You got it, risk is relative. It’s nobody’s fault. They were just doing their job of increasing the wealth of their shareholders. No regulation is needed. Everything is OK. Relax, America. The banks and insurance companies have your back.

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LauraM Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 pm

They already got bailout money from the Japanese government.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/mar2009/gb2009033_969062.htm

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Cal Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:16 pm

Tex:

Actually Fannie and Freddie did guarantee the risky loans to the banks which is the reason they gave the loans to the people that could not afford them. Once the government gets involved, it affects the natural order of the market place, which leads to a disaster.

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mitch Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:23 pm

I know!!

Optomist = 1/2 full
pessimist = 1/2 empty

Engineer, the glass is 2x bigger than required…

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Thug McCalister Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:25 pm

Six days is reasonable. You have to realize that it sometime takes awhile for a UAW union employee to recover from a fun weekend with the boys. They party hard and work hard. Other workers may just get lost and no be able to find their way to work because they are driving a defective GM automobile. So these types of situation require several days of rest so the hard working employee can give a full days worth of work at the shop. GM understands this need. You are making too much of this needed legal clause.

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Tall Pete Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:29 pm

The market, through supply and demand, is deciding the price of oil every minute of every day.

As soon as the US demand grows again prices will rise because of shortage of supply vs demand.

Still, this mecanism doesn’t take into account all the costs of supplying oil to the US – military, health, and so forth.

The price they pay in Kuwait is irrelevant. The supply over there far exceeds demand.

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LauraM Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:32 pm

That’s not true. People at all different income levels have budgets. Maybe not Bill Gates or Larry Eillison, but you have to be extremely wealthy before you don’t pay any attention to what things cost. You only need to be moderately wealthy to be afford a Fisker Karma.

Admittedly, at that income level $2-3 a gallon gasoline probably doesn’t make too much difference, but $4 a gallon is enough to get people looking into alternatives. Especially when it could easily go higher. Besides, price isn’t the only reason to reduce gasoline consumption.

That said, once the Fisker Karma is out and has to compete against a)the Tesla roadster, and b)the converj (if it’s ever built), it needs to look good.

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Fisker Automotive Awarded Loan to Build Plug-In Electric Vehicles. | Cheap Texas Energy Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 pm
JonP. Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:50 pm

I work in Education and let me tell you….

The NJEA which is the New Jersey Teachers Union is the biggest hurdle quality low cost education. There’s a reason NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation. It’s the NJEA!

Principals retiring on 65% of 135K, and health & dental for life.

Unions have had a good impact on this country. But that time has well passed. Most unions today are a direct roadblock to buisness.

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Timaaayyy!!! Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 2:55 pm

or Truckdad

i couldn’t resist, either. lol

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CD Jenkins Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:27 pm

According to the Fisker web site, the half a billion is a loan,,,

http://karma.fiskerautomotive.com/news_items

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edward richardson Says:
September 25th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

how come over two years ago when i contacted gm over my design of producing the car i developed using an electric engine with a small motor to generate a system to re charge that produced over 250mpg your resurch and development team said it was not a good idea and less than one year after that look what you have stolen from me good going thats the american way thanks gm and you wonder why your sales are down alleast with imports you know where your money is going all i want to know why you would not buy the design off of me 2 years ago i am a simple man with 3 kids and have worked on cars all my life it is my passion and i had a great idea and still have paper work and freinds that have heard my idea that supposably you or you development team tought up ha! after they talked to me and i explained in detail i guess it was a good idea after all thanks for shafting people that call you with a great idea and you STEAL IT FROM THEM any one that would like to hear how gm came up with there brain storm of the 250 mpg volt call me edward richardson at 301 343 9789 thanks to all and have a great day hope everyone reads this letter and see how wrong general motors treats there comsumers i have owned gm products from the time i got my license and restored a couple to i am so dissapointed at how crooked they are it was not your IDEA IT WAS MINE . thanks edward richardson winchtk@aol.com

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Mary Says:
October 27th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

MUDDYROVERROB, you are a moron! Get your facts straight.

(Quote)

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