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Op-Ed: GM Offers 60 Day Money Back Guarantee, 80s Style
Looking to bolster sales in a post CFC (Cash for Clunkers) world, GM launched a new campaign entitled “May the Best Car Win,” led by a 60 day ‘Satisfaction Guaranteed’ promotion, designed to bring more buyers into their showrooms.
Beginning September 14th, the premise is straight forward: you buy a GM car; you later decide it just does not offer enough cup holders for your needs, or perhaps does not have the same quality of cup holder as the competition, then between day 30 and 60 of ownership, you can return the car for a full refund. Simple. Easy. Excellent.
Ok, there are a couple catches. For starters, it is only valid for surviving brands, so you can not return a 2010 Vibe to your now Pontiac-less, sales starved, Buick/GMC dealer as a early Christmas present. Same goes if you leased the car, or if you have driven it more than 3,999 miles from purchase.
Unlike some recent marketing snafus, (see any Buick commercial in the past couple years, or the 230 MPG fiasco), this one seems solid, and pretty original. A good combination.
The program gives some real peace of mind and just general good vibes to prospective buyers. It may actually offer some enticement to have shoppers come back and consider a GM product, time will tell. It is still early, but I would rate this akin to Hyundai’s “you lose your job, you can lose our car” campaign…which was very well received. Best of all, the cost to GM itself is fairly minimal, unlike putting $3,500 on the hood of a car to get it out the door.
So that is a winner, good job and good night, right?
Sadly no. GM also decided to ‘jump the shark’ at the same time by having Chairman Lee Iacocca deliver the program directly to the public with some straight talk. Alright, they didn’t do that, Mr. Iacocca was not available as a shill for hire. (How awesome would that commercial have been though?) In Lee’s place, they had newly-minted Chairman Edward Whitacre Jr. dub his voice over some old 80s Chrysler commercials. Ok, that is also untrue. GM shot a whole ‘new’ commercial from scratch, with GM’s Chairman doing the walk and talk.
About halfway through the spot, Mr. Whitacre deadpans a line that probably should have been left on the editing room floor, “We are putting our money where our mouth is.” Erm, sorta. Who isn’t mumbling at this point, “putting OUR money where your mouth is,” under their breath here?
Watch GM Chairman Ed Whitacre Here:
Watch then Chrysler Chairman Lee Iaccoca Here:
Side note: The new GM commercial has some shots of the Volt (huzzah for black), a ‘hood peak’ shot (that we are not unfamiliar with here at GM-Volt) of the new entry level Cadillac, and the as yet unnamed Buick Delta II CUV in clay form.
Not content to stop there, GM throws more gas on the ‘going too far’ bonfire, by introducing this site, The Best Car Wins, which basically asks you five simple questions on which brand you feel has the best fuel efficiency, best safety, best quality, best performance and best overall cars. At the end of the quick questionnaire it displays what the public opinion (to date) is, with a note to please, “stay tuned.” I’m thinking, I probably won’t be back.
You would figure being a GM site, some of the answers should come up with a GM brand…but no. As of going to press, the respective answers to those five questions were Toyota, Volvo, Honda, BMW, BMW. I guess nothing says “come to GM” more than by promoting the fact that everyone else believes that other company’s do things better than you do.
Overall thoughts? Good idea, bad follow through. Hopefully the site, and that commercial die a quick death, and the program lives on, filling a hole for GM in the near term.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go find a dealer with a in-stock, black Corvette ZR1 with the 3ZR package and chrome aluminum wheels, but hold the floor mats please (they don’t give refunds on dealer accessories).
238 Responses to “Op-Ed: GM Offers 60 Day Money Back Guarantee, 80s Style”
Leave a Reply
September 11th, 2009 at 9:01 am
The best car wins site is not a bad idea if GM hope to gather real data. I predict a Toyota win because of the perception of greatness. I expect GM to lose for the same reason. These kind of things have nothing to do with fact.
The commerical thing has been tried. No offense to anyone, but I think a hot babe walking would have been better than Mr. Whitacre.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:07 am
I guess it’s just an extended test drive?
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:08 am
Heh, well it worked for Chryco in the 80’s…
But seriously, I think the ability to return the car WILL have a few more people giving GM a try.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:09 am
60 days for me is about 4000 miles. I might just go do this so I can give my car a break. It has almost 200,000 miles on it.
Oh, I tried GM’s new web site for best cars.
I got them all wrong.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:18 am
“Peace” of mind, not “piece” of mind…
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:19 am
It’s fun to see how the many car manufacturers advertise their products. The Whittaker walk n’ talk is what it is. Displaying a futuristic and productive NGMCO.
I suggest future ads focus more on high points of the product. Show a Corvette cruising a freeway at 30mpg. Show a GMC truck easily pulling a boat up a lake ramp. Show the driving comfort of the Cadillac line. Place the Cruze, Spark, and Volt side by side in a “new and exciting peek at the future” ad.
And as Rashiid mentions above in post #1. New cars and pretty girls just go together.
yes we can (honey?)
=D~
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Rashiid,
I’m afraid I had the same reaction.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:29 am
This one could backfire.
They’ll get some extra lookers, and probably some buyers.
But how many who buy are then going to get some kind of buyers remorse?
Quite a few, and a lot of times it may not even be product related (i.e. job change, couldn’t sell the old car, found a better deal on a used car after the purchase, etc….). These people will then find some little detail on the car that’s a problem and blame the return on that. Just watch.
How often do you see a high dollar item 2 month money back guarantee? . . . . There’s a reason.
/might want to ask corvette guy how many times he’s had to deal with buyers remorse when it had nothing really to do with the product
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Cars have severe depreciation, so it may be expensive.. then again GM got a bunch of free money so…
What GM needs is an econobox that they can actually profit from.. and no I’m not talking about a Cruze at $25k.
Stacik, you may want to use “led” not “lead” in that first paragraph.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:32 am
an please no more Robin Blue paint jobs.. I want basic primary colors!
They should have used fricking Lutz for this ad, you have to admit the guy is impressive.. dress him up in his jet pilot outfit.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:39 am
I like the commercial. I predict it will lead to a boost in sales.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Really great reporting Statik. Now if GM can turn this PR move into sales it will be good. What GM really needs is to get some of the new vehicles in the pipeline into production faster than currently scheduled to jazz up their offerings. While at the same time improving value, quality and service. No small deeds, to be sure, but ones GM must accomplish if they want to grow the company.
Looking forward to your next post, Statik.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:49 am
They say timing is everything. Hopefully the GM marketing effort will not get swallowed up with the Plug-in Prius news of September 15.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:53 am
The only thing I can say about the Best Car Wins web-site is that GM should have not only shown “your picks” and “the most selected picks”, but should have shown the top rated brands based on over-all EPA average fuel effeciency figures. The added set of actual brands would let the viewer see how he and others have stacked up against the true top five brands.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:54 am
GM will do ANYTHING to sell a car. Except back it with a solid warranty for 10 years like Hyundai and Kia do.
This is because GM knows that their cars will require more expensive repairs in 10 years than Hyundais and Kias will.
Further, watch for bait-and-switch. GM is offering $500 to people who opt out of the program (source: ttac.com). In other words, it’s this program in lieu of an additional rebate.
It’s hard to say how many cars will actually leave the showroom enrolled in the program.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:56 am
N. Riley,
I didn’t think that statik was “on his game” on this one. Maybe I just need some more coffee, but it seemed disjointed and lacked any “flow”. His strong pitch is data, (most of which we can’t even FIND) that he’s so good at mining. JMO
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:57 am
Herm,
We all make grammatical errors from time to time. Including spelling Statik as Stacik. Although that is not a grammar error.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:59 am
The first car I ever owned was US made. Lots of problems. I’ve owned Honda’s and Toyota’s since and the US rental cars I’ve driven have done nothing to inspire me to change back to US brands.
*** I think GM has come to understand this situation and, yes, their offer is serious enough to convince me to give them another chance. Go GM!
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:00 am
I agree. It should help as long as the potential buyer is actually ready to purchase a vehicle and did not do so already in the C4C program. I think GM needed to do something to try to build on the C4C sales surge. Maybe they can capture some good sales for a change.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:07 am
I have felt “buyer’s remorse” several times. Actually, every time I purchase a high cost product I get that feeling. In October 2007 I purchased a new 2008 Honda Accord EX on Saturday and on Monday morning took it back to the dealer and turned it back in. They tore up the paper work. Good dealer and I have been a good customer of theirs for years. In October 2009 I went back and purchased my current 2009 Honda Accord EX and did not take it back. I still experience some remorse every now and then. Not anything to do with the car. It is a great car and I love driving it. I sometimes wish I had kept my money in the bank and purchased a good hybrid next year. But, that is just the way life is. You make decisions and although you may wish later you had done it differently, you live with your decision.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:09 am
“230 MPG fiasco” – truly unbiased
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Once you drive that puppy off the lot you will have a very difficult time getting GM to take it back. Sales guys are relentless. (Not just GM, all of them.)
I wouldn’t recommend going in with the pre-meditated intention of bringing it back. It’s going to be more hassle than just keeping it. Can you imagine reversing all the financing, DMV and other paperwork?
Also, might be tough to buy something else when your credit report already shows a new car loan. It could take months to clean that up.
What I would do is buy one of the demos after somebody drove it for a couple of weeks. That has got to be worth at least 5 grand off the price. They can’t very well sell it as new, but, it will still have a full warranty.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:12 am
Sounds like everyone is following Hyundai again. First with the “if you lose your job bring it back” now this. I think its a good idea, but not really original thinking…
BTW, I took the survey and voted:
Toyota, Volvo, Lexus, Porsche, BMW
Not sure how this survey helps GM.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:12 am
N Riley:
I can only agree. They can do all of these stunts they want to but, if they don’t have anything I want to buy, it’s irrelevant to me.
We are quite happy with the GM vehicles we have now, except that the Impala uses too much gas. As a response, we have just started driving it a lot less. Pretty simple, actually.
Unless or until GM produces a vehicle so superior that we “have to buy it”, we will just make do with what we have. I’m hoping that that vehicle is the Volt.
LJGTVWOTR!!
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:15 am
dagwood55:
Yeah, I would just take the $500. I would do my home work before i signed up to buy a car and be damned sure that it was what I wanted. I doubt if they extend this program to the Volt, LOL.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:18 am
“You’re GM, you’ve got to take risks…”
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10309170-54.html
=D~
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:24 am
If you really want a GM car, I think you’ve hit upon a winning strategy. Those 60 day wonders will carry substantial depreciation.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:25 am
This move sounds desperate, very Lee Iacocca-esque when he was trying to unload those K-cars. It hurts the image of the company IMO, showing again the company focused on “cash off” and “save now” type ads rather than product identity ads the Japanese run.
That is where US company marketing and product upgrades have always been lacking. The national ads have a local dealer feel rather than brand identification and consistent brand imaging. I fear this means the same shortsightedness that created the mess is still in the DNA.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Didn’t Saturn have a return policy as well? It helped build trust and better customer-dealer relationships.
And please, no comments about “And you know what happened to Saturn”.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Noel,
Have you checked out the 2010 Chevrolet Equinox yet? I have not, but I would like to. With the 4 cylinder and 6-speed auto trans it is supposed to get over 30 MPG on the highway. I am not in the position at this time to purchase another vehicle, but in a year or so I will probably buy one for my wife. But I do wish GM all the luck in the world, but they have to deliver quality, value and service to be able to “cash in” on that luck.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Nothing says it all like an opinion about advertising from someone …. who knows nothing about advertising. Unfortunately this is par for the course. A very good and close friend was once head of “marketing communications” at a Fortune 50 company, and it was a job she intensely disliked. In part because the subject was a little too squishy for her taste, but mostly because, as she said: “Everyone thinks they’re an expert on advertising”. And of course each and everyone of those people have an opinion, as uninformed as it is, and rarely is there an unwillingness to voice the opinion.
Ultimately you know who is right from the metrics, but we’ll never have access to those. Would be fun if we did. Here are my picks just off the top of my head: Volt ad from 2008 — utter and complete failure; Cadillac CTS ads from this summer — success; 230 MPG campaign — complete success. Doubtless others have different opinions.
However, if you can’t remember the Volt ad from 2008 but can’t get the smiley 230 MPG plug out of your head, then my point is made.
I suspect that they picked Whiteacre because he had no ties to the old GM and hasn’t said anything stupid about global warming — hence his “when I took this job” reference — and because the ad tested well with the intended demographic. Whether it works will be known by the sales numbers in the coming weeks. Personally I have no idea how it will work. But then again I’m one of the few who know they don’t know anything about advertising.
That said, the program itself doesn’t seem like a bad idea. It’s similar in appeal to the tried and proven “before and after” campaigns, and once someone bothers to arrange financing for, or to pay for, a vehicle, you have to assume the likelihood of that someone bringing back a car in 60 days is about zero. Corvette Guy should be able to offer some insight here.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:32 am
“You make decisions and although you may wish later you had done it differently, you live with your decision.”
—
Good point.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:32 am
As much as some GM tries to change their image, there will always be the negative nellies trying to keep its head underwater.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:34 am
The 14-mile car whose numbers will be in the hundreds for fleet testing in a handful of countries around the world in 2010, leading to perhaps higher production sometime in 2012?
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:35 am
I agree that Statik is not in his normal zone when publishing an op-ed versus making comments on some one’s op-ed piece. Over-all I thought it was a good report on a GM activity that is of interest to all of us. I would have to give him an A- for effort and a B+ for content. Sometimes statistics can be down right boring to read or comment about. There was just enough “meat” in this report to give us a reason to read it and make some comments. What else can we ask this late in the game and when there are not many things happening on the Volt front lines. That we know about, anyway.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:36 am
I have a 1996 Cavalier, which has been very trouble free. I know somebody else who had 1993 Cavalier with 390,000 kms on it and it was still running when she got rid of it… no major work on it either.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Most people do not follow auto shows. I expect a little flurry of news reports about the auto show and maybe some on the Prius plug-in. It will be quickly passed by because it is not in production yet and will not affect the market place until 2012. Most people don’t plan or think that far in advance. Of course, that is a shame to say it that way, but it seems we all practice “reaction theory” living rather than planning for the future.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:41 am
My first impression says. Wow, GM must be really confident about their new line of cars these days. It says “we KNOW we have a car you’re going to like” … “we KNOW we can match Toyota and Honda on quality now”.
I think GM’s new Chairman comes across pretty well. He comes across as an “honest broker” kind of guy … even though he works at GM now. He used to be the Chairman of AT&T you know. Those Texas cowboy kind of guys appeal to a lot of people. He reminds me of that actor Tommy Lee Jones from one of his cowboy movies … like “Lonesome Dove” that I saw a few months ago.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000169/
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:45 am
TheBestCarWins…hmmm…I agree that tends to be the case…the best car does win most of the time. The criteria for “winning” varies depending on needs and wants. Per this GM website, the top 5 criteria for “Best Car” are:
- Who do you think builds the most fuel efficient car? Per http://www.fueleconomy.gov, it is the Toyota Prius
- Who do you think builds the safest car? Per http://www.safercar.gov, several cars of varying brands have a 5 star crash rating.
- Who do you think builds the most dependable car? Per http://www.consumerreports.org, “Overall, the most reliable vehicles come from Asian nameplates. Though domestic cars are getting better, they still trail the Japanese models. European models are also improving, but the older ones tend to be among the most problematic.”
- Who do think builds the best performance car? If price is no object and performance means “speed, handling, braking” (not efficiency), some of the supercar brands were not listed.
- Who do you think builds the best car?
I would argue that cost of ownership should make this list.
Also, this GM website lists 36 brands. I’ve not even ridden in all 36 brands…much less owned a vehicle from each brand. My vehicle ownership over 20+ years is 6 of the brands. And would venture to say most people have more dedication to a brand(s) than me. Therefore I argue, the results of this website are based largely on 3rd hand comments from someone else’s experience and/or media stories.
Also, this criteria for “winning” is mainly for the owner of vehicle…what about the manufacturer and dealer “winning”? Will the Volt be winning vehicle for GM, dealers, and the consumer?
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:46 am
I don’t think the Volt will need any incentive program to spur sales. GM just needs to get them on the road as soon as possible and make sure it performs as expected. And be ready to ramp production up quickly if the Volt is accepted the way we all think it will be.
I agree about the $500 and the research. I research every vehicle I want to test drive and I do comparison shopping to test drive several vehicles to insure my research did lead me to the correct vehicle for my needs.
I have like every GM vehicle I purchased and was satisfied with them over the time I owned them. I intend to purchase a GM vehicle as my next vehicle. I just don’t know when that will be. I would love to purchase a 2-mode hybrid or Voltec small pickup truck. we will just have to wait to see what GM does about my wishes.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Sounds like a free 2-month car rental.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:55 am
N. Riley,
I guess it’s in the category of “I need to get a life”, but I’d love to know the status of the production lines (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Toyota would begin delivery of 500 Prius PHV vehicles in late 2009
Toyota is all set to introduce its new 2010 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid (PHV) Concept vehicle next week at the Frankfurt Motor Show.
I read this as the “concept” has become a production vehicle when they make 500……
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:59 am
The “Best Car” website is poorly worded and pretty silly. First off, one has to assume that it is limited to just the mass produced American market, hence the lack of so many brands. Second, the questions are phrased as singular, not plural so they only compare individual models, not the whole brand. So in the first question, it’s just a simple fuel economy metric and the Prius wins. On the second question it’s performance metric again, but there many ties for this, so people just have to go with the tired old saw, Volvo. Third question has to be Lexus, because the routinely score in the top three on any customer satisfaction or quality index since their inception. Why so many people seem to have chosen Honda is beyond me. The forth question, if taken literally, should be proven on the track and nowhere else. There are some very good contenders in this are on their list, but BMW is no where near the best performance car of the group at the track. Again, it’s not super clear cut, so I would expect people to gravitate towards Porsche, but I guess BMW springs to most minds. The last question leaves people with so many questions, like best for what mission statement? Best for me personally or best overall in these categories? The question is so open ended. I feel that there are an awful lot of disingenuous people out there, because if BMW really was the best car, we would see that company with a much larger market share than it does have.
BTW, I chose Toyota, Buick (just for the hell of it because I don’t really know and really didn’t want to research it.) Lexus, Chevrolet and Chevrolet.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:01 am
N Riley is this like the movie Frequency where you’re communicating with us from the future through your computer. If you bought your car in October 2009 then what is the date now? Better yet what is the Dow Jones at?
LOL. Sorry just couldn’t resist….
Now on a serious note I hope that they don’t have to many people abusing this offer or it will cost them dearly. Not only on the loss they will take on reselling those cars as well as the bad press for the inflated number of returns.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Well, nearly a full warranty less the miles and time driven. Not a bad suggestion, in my opinion. I agree it is much better to be sure the vehicle is the one you truly want before signing the sale papers.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:03 am
This gives the buyer 60 days to decide if they like the payments. It’s quite possible that more cars will be returned than usual, not what GM needs.
Time will tell.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:04 am
I gives GM feed-back on our opinions or the way we believe brands stand. Maybe that is useful, but they could get the same information by reading Consumer Reports Buyer Guides. Of course, they are biased surveys based on people’s perception. Just like their web-site’s vote.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:04 am
My first car was a ‘72 Datsun, it was a terrible car and I loved it!
Then I had a ‘78 Ford Capri (the german one) a wonderful car with a terrible (us built) engine.
My first new car was an ‘88 Olds Calais two door it was a great car, fantastic on fuel, would start first twist at -40 (that is a feat that LOTS of cars fail at) The Calais had the typical bad paint and ‘cheap’ interior bits that broke in that era, really too bad because it really WAS a nice car but those little details dug at us.
The next GM I bought is my current ‘98 Malibu that i bought used nearly 10 years old.
The little things make a BIG difference.
Saving a dollar by using a ‘cheap’ switch or panel that feels or looks like junk will make the customer think the whole car is junk.
That’s nearly 20 years between GM cars. The stupid little plastic panel had us thinking ‘junk’ and we bought cars built ‘elsewhere’
So if you build every car like the CEO is going to drive it as their personal car and your personal bonus relies on him being happy, these ‘extended test drives’ will work.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:09 am
If not a hot babe, Rashiid, at least someone with a passionate pitch!
I found it odd that the GM press release for this quotes passionate Bob Lutz more than once, but never quotes unexciting Ed Whitacre.
Lee Iacocca had about the same passion in the old Chrysler ad as Bob Lutz would have had in this GM campaign! Why not stick with what has worked!?!
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:09 am
60 days. Nah, that won’t get me to go look or buy. I do research first then go look or buy. What will they do with the car that’s returned? It’s no longer new. Is it resold as used?
Hmmmm…..
..oO(Wonder what a used Malibu will be)
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:10 am
I have..
…and was blown away, I have the order placed for the wife, just need to move a piece of real estate, and we are green light go..
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:11 am
They say bring it back “no questions asked”. That doesn’t sound too hard.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Gary that goes for all brands. That is not and excuse. If GM improves its products and, (and this is a very big “AND”), continues to do so over the next couple of decades, their public perception will change. They will then start taking back market share. One car model or one product cycle will not bring back buyers in droves.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:13 am
I liked this TV commerical by GM for the Volt when it came out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ITuKHpWKlQ&feature=PlayList&p=5C2069DBFCCB5638&index=8
GM should get the same ad agency to do something similar to this one next year when the Volt is about a month or two away from coming to dealerships around the country.
I like that theme about progress and moving forward … from the past to the future. That’s what America is all about. Progress. Making things better. Solving our problems of fuel efficiency, energy independence, global warming, etc. And putting all this cool new technology into a high quality, well tested car that some of the best people in the auto industry proudly designed.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Aw m@n, shot up. Ivery 1 phat f1ngirs or misspells wards onse in a whale.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Heh heh… I LIKE the blue!
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Say what!! Way to go….
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:27 am
As Capt Jack said: We all hit the wrong keys from time to time. I meant that I purchased one in October of 2007 and one in October 2008. I am not that far advanced in my planning or where I exist. Thanks for “catching” that for me. Sorry everyone. I had 2009 Accord on my mind as I was typing October 2009. Obviously I have not come back from the future. Yet!
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:28 am
The previous thread indicates 2010: http://gm-volt.com/2009/09/10/plug-in-prius-will-have-up-to-124-all-electric-miles/
So, in 2012 they will go to full mass production for the mass market globally.
I think 2012 is a big big BIG mistake for Toyota. By then the market will be saturated with BEV’s or other PHEV’s.
Anyway, that’s JMHO.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Because then statik would have hated it even more…..
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:33 am
I agree. I miss that type of “inside” information Statik was always providing. Lyle does a great, fantastic job, but he can’t provide us with everything. Well, neither can Statik, but he seemed to do a good job of digging up some facts and information I could never have found. Although I do enjoy his op-ed pieces, I do miss him on the site daily.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Mitch,
Keep us informed as to how you and your wife likes the Equinox. It looks really good on TV. I thought I saw a black one yesterday in traffic but did not get close enough to be sure. Good luck with it. And we will want to know everything about it and how it measures up.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:36 am
I like Grey or Gray or however it’s spelled. Shows less of the collected dirt on the car.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Correct assessment.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:39 am
N. Riley,
It’s nice that I’m not the only one that craves the data mining statik is so good at. I recognize that a guest opinion may have some parameters within which it needs to dwell, so all the more reason for statik to get back here and help us out!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Hey! It is Statik, after all. What do you expect. If he did not throw out a little hard ball towards GM, I would think some one else was posing as Statik. Nothing wrong with his comment. I wish GM had not played up the 230 MPG stuff the way they did. I would have preferred a much lower keyed announcement, if any at all. Or they could have balanced it more with some numbers for highway mileage in charge sustaining mode (like we all want to know that and they will not let it out). I think Statik did OK.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:43 am
True, Bruce. But there are always those pesky clauses in fine print. But, it will hopefully help a lot of fence sitters to jump down on GM;s side of the fence and purchase a GM vehicle. We can always hope.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:47 am
I meant what I said. 230 MPG is not just a fiasco, but a plain stupid lie by GM. Statik put it in very mildly IMO.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:47 am
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Stuart,
I agree. It is very difficult to create a great advertising campaign when public perception of your company is so low. GM needs to study the success of other company’s advertisements, especially the Japanese companies’ advertisements. Build great cars with quality, value and service and brand loyalty will come. Advertising helps if you can create masterpiece ads. What you want to do is to drive new customers into the dealership and keep convincing the current owners that they made a good decision. Advertising will not help convince current or new customers as much as quality, value and service across the product line. And don’t let me forget design and technology. GM has these last two. Time will tell if they have the first three. I truly hope so.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Actually to make the offer more credible they should take the car back with interest. They should pay the poor owner who was suckered into the deal. Now that would mean something.
Sadly, don’t look for anything like this from the New GM. This is a gimmick to try and get victims to visit their empty dealerships that is all.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Very good points and well stated, DonC. I agree on all counts. Well, not on whether you know anything about advertising or not because I don’t know you that well. But you know what I mean.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:54 am
But just imagine Lutz in the commercial…..wearing the pink tie.
Don’t underestimate the power of the tie.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:54 am
If i was Toyota i would pounce all over this guy. First off he knows nothing about cars (even admitted it when Obama hired him to run GM). Secondly everyone and their brother already knows Toyota makes the best cars in the World.
Toyota crushes Chevy in a cage match up.
Lexus destroys Cadillac in a cage rematch.
This could get ugly for New GM real quick.
Oh and don’t forget 11 more weeks before heads start rolling at GM.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:55 am
I do not know the details, but devil says it will cost you ~1000 in interest, fees and taxes.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Doofus Alert:
Please don’t mention GM and “high quality” in the same topic. It makes you look stupid. Gently reach down and pull your head out of your
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:57 am
No, it just becomes a small test fleet. Same as the current test fleet for the Volt and the 500 or so GM will roll out next year before starting production of the Volt to hit the showrooms late next year. Until it is in the dealer’s showroom where just any customer can walk in and purchase it, it is only a test vehicle. IMO.
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
dont give me no statik.. its an internet fact that you will always make a spelling error when correcting someone else..
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
I think you are overly optimistic on EVs. $40k Volt is just not gonna cut it. No way. Price has to come down a lot, like 50%. Ain’t gonna happen in 2012.
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
According to the article I read, they wanted an outsider. They’re trying to appeal to the non-GM customer here. Whitacre can say he was skeptical but impressed when he actually looked at the line-up, and you will be too. Lutz really couldn’t.
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
This is gonna be one helluva 60-day test drive. Yeah Baby.
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Yep the Prius PHEV (aka Volt Killer) will soon be taking the U.S. by storm. Hold on because its gonna be a fun ride.
Be advised that the Volt offers no competition to the plug-in Prius until at least 2013 model because until then Volt production limits will not challenge the might Prius. In reality the real competition to the Volt will be the 2nd generation plug-in that will drastically increase battery performance. Go Toyota !
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
that is such old thinking. Using rental cars are you judgment? Give me a break, you are obviously biased since the beginning. My first car was a 76 full size Chevy that ran like a tank, never had a problem. American cars since around 2000 or so have improved quality and reliability to match or exceed foreign manufactures.
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
I agree, but I never mentioned price. There will just be a boatlaod of them on the market by the time Toy brings on the PHEV Prius.
The expected PHEV Prius is roughly a SWAG somewhere in the close figure of ~$30,000.00. That makes it affordable to me. The lame EV specs of ~60mph and 12.5 AER will work also.
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Lee Iacocca pulled off a legendary turn-around at Chrysler. If GM pulls off something half as successful, we, the taxpayer, will actually make money on GM. I don’t think that’s going to happen, but you never know.
I agree that it might sound a little desperate, but GM has to try something to get people to try their products. They don’t have ten years to wait around and use word-of-mouth. Basically, they’re saying that GM’s current products are much better than people are giving them credit for. What’s wrong with that?
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
OMG are they just asking for a whoopin.
The Japanese and Korean brands are superior quality and lower price.
GM may be walking into a hornet’s nest with this offer.
Anyone even tempted to actually buy a GM should drive their car immediately to your nearest Asian Quality dealer and test drive the competition. This will go bad for GM, they are better quality than 5 years ago, but still far behind most of the imports.
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
this is the worst idea GM has had in months. Everyone and their dog knows that GM cars work fine for 60 days.
If GM wants to sell more cars, they should simply guarentee that every car they sell from this day on, will receive no worse than 15 percent of its out-the-door price on trade in, as long as it’s moving and in reasonable repair.
They should call it Cash for OUR clunkers.
If GM had given me 4500 for my Pontiac on trade in, I would have bought another one. Since I got chump change for it, I bought a second Nissan and cannot think of a reason to buy another GM, ever, other than a Volt Generation II or III.
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Mitch,
I agree with N. Riley that we’ll be very anxious to hear how it works out with the new Equinox. I’m especially interested in the mileage you get in actual driving. A friend of mine is a terminal GM basher and he claims that all the GM info is/are “lies and damn lies”. Let us know either way!
Be well,
Tagamet
/ he’ll wise up in a few years when he sees my new Volt (g)
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Fear not. Honda and Toyota vehicles have some of the highest resale values in the industry. You should be able to get a handsome amount when your trade-in for that hybrid next year. I will wait until 2011 to purchase because I believe that 2010 is just the start of the EV invasion and selection choices and quantities will be limited but by 2011 (that’s the 2012 model year) the selection of EVs should be very nice to choose from. Cheers.
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
I bet you can get a killer deal on some of those returned vehicles.
Like many others here, this 60-day return thing wouldn’t be a motivator for me. I would do my research and make my purchase.
What WOULD be a motivator would be a better warranty – bumper-to-bumper, covering everything except consumables and outright abuse. The old 3-yr / 36k miles just doesn’t cut it anymore. Give me free 30k & 60k services. Show me that my long-term cost of ownership is going to be low, and that the hassle factor of owning the car will be low.
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Nissan is one uninspiring car line up with the cheapest sh*t plastic interiors.
Enjoy your junk
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Guess your not up to speed on all the V6 Camry cars blowing up auto transmissions.
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September 11th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Articles should be written to higher standards than comments. I doubt Statik minded the correction.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
You probably having been keeping up with the LATEST models that GM has been making in the past 5 years. GM is DEFINITELY improving. GM and Ford both are VERY close in quality and dependability with Toyota and Honda.
Read this:
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/23/business/fi-autos-quality23
” Autos from Dearborn, Michigan-based Ford took the quality title in four categories and finished among the best in a fifth, while Detroit-based GM won in two segments and had its models judged among the top finishers in eight others.
Toyota and Chevrolet, the two largest-selling brands in the U.S., were separated by only 2 problems for every 100 vehicles sold, with 101 and 103.”
Guess what car companies actually were rated the WORST by JD Power in overall dependability? Suzuki is THE worst (Japanese) Followed by Volkswagen, Land Rover, Isuzu (Japanese), and Mazda (Japanese).
Suzuki, Nissan, Mitsubishi, and Mazda are all rated at the very bottom in terms of POWERTRAIN dependability. All are Japanese based auto companies.
Bottom line, yes, Toyota and Honda are all still rated high by JD Power but you cannot overgeneralize and say that ALL Japanese and Korean car companies are superior to American car companies. Not at all. A GM brand, Buick, is actually rated #1 in OVERALL DEPENDABILITY and #2 in POWERTRAIN DEPENDABILITY. Go to the JD Power website and see for yourself.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
N. Riley,
Although I heartily agree that there will be a very long line of Voltiacs waiting for the wheels to hit the road, GM will still need to crow about it’s virtues (as it should), if it’s to attain a good market share. I just hope that they are preparing for “year two” of production. After any limited release and slow roll-out, they really need to be ready to pump those puppies out! I’m hoping that that preparation is already in the works.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Hey, Statik, what’s this “OUR money” C$#P ? You’re Canadian. And I’m sure you’re quite happy about it right now.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Capt,
It’s words. Not wards.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
If Eco is actually interested in MPGs, it is hard to find a worse selection than at your Nissan dealer.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Be advised that GM vehicles usually suffer catastrophic failures at exactly the same time the warranty runs out. This is fact. Don’t forget that the largest selection of GM vehicles can be found in only one place (see below).
.
.
.
.
Salvage Yard
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
You obviously have never driven their Infiniti lineup.
- DIck
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Better make that “It’s.”
Sorry Herm
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
True enough, but I certainly wouldn’t be disappointed if someday kids were once again taught to spell, punctuate, and use grammar properly. Oh, and also to think critically. That seems to have “poof” in the last couple of decades, too.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
As far as the 2 commercials go, Lee Iaccoca said it better and with greater conviction. Ed Whitacre starts out with “having his doubts”.
I can’t speak for the other GM Brands, but I’m happy to match a Tahoe, Suburban or Silverado against any other truck out there for quality of fit, finish and comfort. The same for the Traverse. Bigger and better than a Honda Pilot. And especially for the Camaro and Corvette. I think they represent the best about GM and Chevrolet.
I have no doubt the VOLT will be built even better.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
To quote Steve Martin, “I moonambo dogface to the banana-patch.”
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
You are in LaLa land if you think GM will EVER repay $80 billion dollars worth of bailout loans. Not gonna happen.
- Dick
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
This is risk bidness.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Dude … could it be that you DON’T know what the heck you are talking about? Read this:
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/23/business/fi-autos-quality23
” Autos from Dearborn, Michigan-based Ford took the quality title in four categories and finished among the best in a fifth, while Detroit-based GM won in two segments and had its models judged among the top finishers in eight others.
Toyota and Chevrolet, the two largest-selling brands in the U.S., were separated by only 2 problems for every 100 vehicles sold, with 101 and 103.”
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
I don’t think they will either. They’d have to regain both the market share and the profit per car they had in the 50s to do that. And that’s flat out impossible given the realities of todays automobile market.
Getting our money back is a different story. I was taking into account the value added by preserving our manufacturing base. As well as the costs avoided by GM’s bankruptcy.
My point was that Lee Iacocca at Chrysler was a success story. Emulating his success isn’t a bad thing, IMHO.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Hey Ignorant MarkinWI
Just so you know the Canadian AND Ontario government put billions into “your” GM and Chrysler companies to save “your” asses .
Dont be too proud Yankee .
Canadians don’t take too kindly to that sort of thing .
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
It’s a shame GM has to resort to this when they now have great cars. Consumers today are so uneducated about cars. They just go out and automatically buy Japanese brands or maybe will read the bias Consumers Report who can never say a good thing about the domestic brands. I hope GM can get rid of that negative perception.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Even at that it would be pretty low risk to the consumer in that they could exit the deal if they choose to.
$1000 to ‘rent’ a car for two months is seriously cheap and you know it.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
It’s FINE that you are trolling the site, but as you change lame names try to use a wee bit of imagination and change your writing style ok?
Thanks.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
See Ed, . . .THAT’S how you do it! No doubt.
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
CorvetteGuy, I can’t speak for the other GM Brands, but I’m happy to match a Tahoe, Suburban or Silverado against any other truck out there for quality of fit, finish and comfort.
That is only your opinion , but the truth is that Ford trucks outsell GM trucks , so your opinion doesn’t count for much .
The Volt might be a better built car if it is built in Oshawa Ontario . GM’s best built trucks come from Oshawa , not USA .
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Mark,
If you go by $ per capita we are just as “invested” as the US in GM.
Please do a little bit of research before blowing up at someone who is correct.
/Rob in Canada
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
At least that one was funny.
A friend had a middle ’70’s Corolla.
The fender fell off.
Beauty quality!
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September 11th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
The Canadian government contributed 10.5 billion. As a result, they now own 12% of NGMCO. Why? I’m not sure. But I think they decided thatm, as long as the US goverment was bailing out GM, they might as well throw in enough to keep some of the jobs in Canada.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/2009/06/01/9642601.html
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
As long as the mileage numbers (highway) are still determeined at 55 MPH and are not reality alot of cars will bve returned for not getting the mileage on the sticker. I just hope I can really get 40 MPCharge from the Volt. I drive 42 miles round trip to work.
Take Care,
TED
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Just make sure you plug it in and use his electricity every time you visit him..
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
sheez not the 230 thing again.. its not a lie, its a long term statistical mileage
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Silly Khadgars – I bought my last Honda Civic in 1990 and it runs so well I haven’t even been in a car dealership of any kind since. How would I know what other cars are like except when I have to rent one at the airport?
Even with the rebate a GM Volt will cost ~50% more than I’ve ever paid for a new car. I can afford a Volt and I’m very inclined to buy one, but I have to say that GM’s money back guarantee is probably what it would take to ‘push me over the edge’ and spend that 50% “green premium” for a Volt regardless of how quickly it pays for itself in reduced fuel bills.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Err, RVD… you need to make up your mind…
Either say the Volt doesn’t really exist (your primary angle) or say it DOES exist but the Prius is way better. (your second angle)
Either way until the Volt hits the ground silently running you can’t possibly call ANYTHING regarding efficency a lie because there is no data one way or the other.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
“Getting our money back is a different story. I was taking into account the value added by preserving our manufacturing base. As well as the costs avoided by GM’s bankruptcy.”
We have to keep some manufacturing in the US, otherwise who will make the weapons if we ever need them again?
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
The cars and trucks Toyota started sending to our shores were like glorified beer cans on wheels. They were referred to as beer can cars. Back in the 1950s and 1960s if you wanted to spell “crap” products it was spelled J-a-p-a-n-e-s-e. I know. I lived through that period. American cars were much better than foreign vehicles back then. They were recognized as world class vehicles. During the 1970s the wheels started falling off Detroit at the same time as the Japanese started building vehicles that were of good quality, value and service. We all know the “rest of the story”.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
I’ve scratched a car off of my list because I didn’t like a rental.
It was a 2005 Chevy HHR. The car gave a very positive first-impression, but after driving it for a couple of days, my now-wife and I determined that the blind-spots created by the massive pillars were hazardous to our health. No amount adding luxurious options will fix that.
I guess if I’d driven the car for a month rather than a week, I could have adapted to the big pillars. But, in order for this to work, I’d have to be totally in love with the looks — but I merely found the vehicle’s unusual looks to be “kinda neat”.
With all apologies to the HHR fans on this board, this is the kind of issue that would have me return a car for this 60-day guarantee. I hope it doesn’t destroy the sales of the HHR.
P.S. The HHR is close to the right size and shape for my needs, these days. If they’d fix the blind-spots and add some sort of high-efficiency or alternative-fuel drivetrain, it would be near the top of my list.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
both Ford and GM large vehicles are the best in the world, there can be no doubt on that.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I can run a cord through the bushes between our houses. I wonder how long before he busts me (lol) ( I know we won’t be able to use extensions, but it paints a funny picture).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Ted,
Yeah, 55 mph doesn’t reflect real life too well, so people will be disappointed, but that should be the case with all vehicles then.
Cool avatar, BTW. You look “retirement ready” (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Actually, we make all of our own weapons. We even export them. In fact, we dominate the weapons market nationally and internationally. It’s not exactly something I’m proud of… But I suppose it’s better than the alternative.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/07/world/07weapons.html
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
My dad has a 1995 Infiniti J30. It’s worn out in many ways, but it still feels like a fancy new car, 14 years after it was built. The reliability has been pretty good, considering the age and miles — the only issues I heard about was that it need an alignment and a new pair of disc rotors, a set of tires, and some light bulbs. It seems perfectly normal for any high-mileage car of that vintage.
Unfortunately, I don’t need a luxury sedan for anything, so I can’t justify buying one. Also, the 25mpg mileage that I measured on it when I borrowed it for a fortnight isn’t too inspiring — my Ford Ranger gets the same mileage, but it can can haul a load of compost or sheet-goods.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
______________________________________________________
From Statik’s Article:
“…About halfway through the spot, Mr. Whitacre deadpans a line that probably should have been left on the editing room floor, “We are putting our money where our mouth is.”…”
————
“our money” ???
…You have got to be kidding me…
Mr. Whitacre,
That is MY money you are putting where your mouth is!
If that spot airs with the “our money” reference it will big time pis* off a bunch of viewers (including me and I’m a GM Volt fan wanting GM to succeed)…it will be ridiculed in the media … I hope GM has the good sense to either drop the entire “our money” reference or alternatively replace “our money” with “your money” or “taxpayer’s money”.
How about GM coming out with a commercial saying “GM thanks all of you for your making possible the re-birth of GM…we are so confident about the quality of our cars that we…”
______________________________________________________
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
You are showing an unusually US centric bias today Laura.
It’s actually pretty clear why our government got involved, auto manufacturing is HUGE in Ontario.
Many many jobs are tied to GM, and the other manufacturers.
Where do you think Magna is based?
(Who do you think is a REALLY big customer of Magna?)
http://www.magna.com/magna/en/
(BTW, Frank Stronach’s daughter Belinda ran for Prime Minister but lost.)
BIG well known money is involved here, that’s why.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
I will let you know about the lielage when we take delivery, but the test drive..it was quiet, VVVeerrryy smooth, (and we were on a VEERrrryy bad road) and power was very good for a 4 banger…its no Corvette, but I didn’t expect that, it DID however exceed expectation..passing will NOT be a problem.
Take 2010 for a test…its worht the time
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
It’s still pretty funny that even back in 1984 the American car companies were apparently getting their butts kicked in the small car market by the Japanese, 25 year ago! Lee Iaccoca makes a clear reference to this when he says that Chrysler was planning on making a small car that would beat the Japanese at their own game. This was what started NUMMI 25 years ago. GM wanted to learn how Toyota made such small cars so efficiently and affordable, so they paid for the factory.
In general, American cars never lost their lead in SUVs and trucks, but when it comes to small cars, the Japanese own it.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
The Black Volt in the comercial had the old-style hood.
I guess the return policy may work, but it reminds of all those “money back guaranteed” infomercials. There would have to be something seriously wrong for me to return a car.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
When I said “the wheels started falling off Detroit” I was speaking more from a quality standard more than a mechanical standard. While I was purchasing GM cars and trucks during the 60s through most of the early 90s, I never had a bad mechanical problem with any of them. Sure there was more plastic than I wanted to see inside and buttons sometimes would fall off after 50 or 60 thousand miles, but I saw Japanese vehicles that had mechanical problems and bad buttons during the same period. Overall Detroit just fell behind in quality, value and service. Plain and simple.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
I agree that GM won’t need incentives to sell the Volt. But they don’t need them to sell the Camaro either. And they’re including that in their 60 day money back guarantee. (Assuming you can find one on the lot for MSRP. I don’t know how this affects orders.)
If GM is having a promotion that covers all their cars, they’re not going to exempt the Volt. Hopefully, they won’t need to do that by the time the Volt is available…
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Mitch,
Most excellent! Keep us posted either way.
Thanks in advance,
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
LauraM:
Well that’s a pretty sobering link. Thanks (I think).
Somehow it reminds me of the famous line of Captain Jerk in “Star Dreck”:
“We come in peace, shoot to kill.”
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Richard Holder:
You got that right. Not in this life or the next.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Because GM did such a major restructuring of the COSTS that have been holding back their profitability for YEARS AND YEARS, I think that GM is LIKELY to pay back those government LOANS just like Chrysler did when they were bailed out in the 80s. If GM pays back those loans like Chrysler did, then in effect he IS talking about “company money” in this 60 day money back guarantee.
It’s the companies like that damned insurance company AIG and other scumbag Wall Street companies that got CAUSED America to get into the financial mess we’re in that I’m concerned about NOT paying back their government loans.
By the way … it is to the benefit of YOU, the taxpayer, to be rooting for GM to make a big comeback. You DO want GM to pay those government loans back as soon as possible don’t you?
America NEEDS some world class auto companies like GM and Ford. Do you REALLY want to buy all your cars from foreign auto makers? Not me. America is the birthplace of automobiles. We’ve always been a car-loving country. It’s a huge part of our culture. America SHOULD be the dominant manufacturer of automobiles in the world.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Luke, I can’t speak to an HHR, but I use my side and rear view mirrors to help me watch traffic coming up behind and beside me. I keep the side mirrors adjusted to pickup vehicles as they come out of the rear view mirror’s zone. By the time they get to where the side mirrors start losing them, I can see them directly by just barely moving my head to the right or the left. My wife and kids fuss because they like the mirrors to look down the side of the vehicle so they can see the edge of the vehicle in the mirror for backing up. I tell them its my vehicle, adjust or don’t drive it. Of course, most of the time I have to readjust the mirrors after one of them has been in the vehicle. Some of the newer technology of warning sensor lights in the side mirrors will really start helping those vehicles with blind spots.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
White doesn’t show dirt very much. Of course, fire engine red is really nice, but like all darker colors, will show a lot of dirt. I saw a Toyota Rav 4 yesterday that was a very pretty red. Neat looking vehicle.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
I believe GM will launch a series of TV commercials later this fall with the same quesitons, then the ’survey results’ and then clarify with an answer that gives GM the win. They are running this entire campaign to begin the slow process of changing public perception and opinion. Ultimately, GM will be successful by selling one great vehicle at a time. They have several new models that are clearly capable of changing perception and opinion – but there are still a number of older models that need to go.
The new Chevy Equinox is blowing people away – it is an absolutely fantastic vehicle at a value packed price. It will be one of the TOP selling vehicles for GM this year.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
I think he did a good job in the video. Came across good. But what will sell GM cars is quality, value and service. Or have I said that already? LOL.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
You do not need to have PhD in Physics to call 230 MPG a lie. But if you do have one it certainly helps.
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
MuddyRoverRob:
They slept in a bit late, but they’re really rolling now. See below. I hope that doesn’t mean they’re in our time zone, LOL.
If you buy into my theory that it’s all good, this must be a great day, LMAO!
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September 11th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
While I cannot disagree with your thinking, I will not take that route. I expect to purchase an American auto company vehicle next time and each time after that as long as I feel it provides quality, value and service. If not, then I wll cross that bridge when I come to it.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
well, devil could be wrong. It could be 2000. We’ll see, but I am sure GM will make return a major PITA to avoid “renting”.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Well, as consumers, we all know what will prompt us to take a look at GM’s new line-up. And what won’t. For example, I think the “more models that get > 30 mpg” line is bizarre given GM’s reputation for duplicate models.
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe it’s successful with other people. You’re right that I haven’t seen the numbers. But that doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion.
I agree about why they picked Whiteacre. In fact, Lutz said that’s why they picked Whitacre.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/business/11gm.html?bl&ex=1252814400&en=7d1cbc585712733a&ei=5087
As far as the returns, they said they’re not worried. But meanwhile they purchased insurance….I just hope that some of the GM haters don’t purposely buy the car and return it just to make GM lose money.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-gm-moneyback11-2009sep11,0,3642472.story
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
CorvetteGuy:
Well said. Our 3500 is amazingly comfortable for a 1T pickup, and it is a trailer towing SOB. Our 1500 is a total bottom feeder work truck, and even it is so much more comfortable than the one it replaced that it is a wonder.
If I was in the market for a Camry/Accord sized car, I would absolutely buy a Malibu. The 4 cyl, 6 speed auto, model is a really good package, IMHO. And a LOT better loking.
If, as you say, the Volt is even better, we will be there with the cash. We look to the day!
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Clearly you have not driven a new GM vehicle in a while – nor read many of the latest reviews and independent survey results. Go test drive a new Chevy Malibu, Traverse or Equinox; Cadillac CTS or Buick Enclave – and then go drive anything from Korea or Japan – and then revisit your comments.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
I agree with you. It all comes down to the product. But they also need good marketing, IMHO. They can have the best cars in the world. But it won’t do them any good if the consumers won’t even look at their products.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
I guess I should bow to your ’super powers’ and ability to see into the future.
But that’s unlikely.
If you had said (and you HAVE many times) that you don’t BELIEVE the number I’d let it go, that’s a guess or opinion and fair enough but call it a lie without PROOF and THAT crosses the line.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Those relentless sales guys are a BIG part of the problems with the auto business in general.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Richard, not sure where you are getting your facts, but I suggest rechecking them. GM is excelling at long term reliability – getting some very strong marks. Like this from JD Powers “J.D Power officials say they weren’t surprised at the strong showing by General Motors’ (GM) Buick and by Jaguar, sold by Ford last year with Land Rover to India’s Tata Motors.
“Buick has ranked among the top 10 nameplates each year since the study was last redesigned in 2003, while Jaguar has moved rapidly up the rankings,” said David Sargent, Power’s vice president of automotive research.”
Here is a link to the full story…
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-03-19-reliability_N.htm
And, oh yeah, maybe you haven’t heard about some of Toyota’s engine problems…
http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Truth!
But if this loser is going to spend all their time being a pain in our collective arse it would be better if they put even the tiniest amount of thought into those comments.
I guess it’s possible we’re getting all they have though…
The same text with different names is just plain getting old.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
True, Ford sells more F-series pickups. Full size trucks have extremely high loyalty and there is not much brand hopping. But the Chevy Tahoe/Suburban definitely outsell the Ford Expedition and now defunct Excursion.
Bottom line: both Chevy and Ford are built here in the US – and despite all the billions Toyota and Nissan have spent developing full-size trucks of their own, they fall far short in both quality and fuel economy.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
RVD,
Let’s say I drive my Volt round trip to work daily for 5 days a week. That is a round trip of 20 miles per day or 100 miles per week. On the weekend my present car generally sits in the carport. Once or twice a month at night or on the weekend I might drive an extra 8 or 10 miles. Not enough to exceed the 40 MPC prior to recharging each night after driving it. Only about twice a year I take a short trip out in the country to my home town. About 120 miles round trip each time. Let me ask you (without me trying to calculate it) what would my average miles per gallon of gas consumed be after one year of this routine while driving a Volt? And this is truly my routine for my current vehicle which gets 22.9 MPG city and over 32 highway. Give me how many miles do I travel per year and how many gallons of gas do I consume in a Volt rated at 40 MPC and 50 MPG in charge sustaining mode. Use 30 MPC and 40 MPG, if you like. What would my MPG in the Volt be for the year?
Anyone else care to tell me? I would like to see what you and our friend RVD comes up with. Incidentally, RVD, this is not a trick question. I would never propose a trick question to such a serious subject.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Tell me about it. Normally, I’m thrilled when I hear about the US exporting something. Anything. But this…not so much.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Right now GM owes the U.S. taxpayer about 62 billion dollars if they get all the loans offered by the government. It seems at GM’s best days the corporation was worth about 54 billion dollars. If we get our money back it will be more in the form of continued jobs that pay taxes and purchase products that manufacturers make money on and employee people and pay taxes and on and on. It is an investment in long term jobs more than one where we can expect much of a direct return on our money. Now, if GM turns the corner and offers stock in the new company for sale, the government will get the lions share of that money since it owns the lions share of the business. We will have to take a seat and wait the outcome.
GM: Just remember three words from today to carry forward. Quality. Value. Service. You must accomplish those three tasks to succeed. IMO.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
I got an email with a link to the survey also:
“As we work toward putting the Volt on the road, we’re hoping you could help us out. We have a short 15-minute survey that will help shape the shopping, buying and ownership experience of the Chevy Volt. It’s an important contribution we can only get from interested people like you. Click the button below to begin.”
It was a pretty extensive survey.
Hey, maybe since I’m on their list they’ll offer me one of the first Volts…yeah, right.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
I, too, liked that ad. It always made me stop and pay attention to the ad. I liked the sounds, the action on the screen and the Volt at the end. GM does need to do something like this next year starting in about June at the latest and run it all summer and fall. Then when production cars are being delivered come out with a revised one showing them arriving at dealerships and customers driving off in them. Of course that will make a lot of people to go to their local Chevrolet dealer to be disappointed when there is no Volts available. But it builds desire for the Volt and the mind and heart will remember until Volts are more widely available.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
I know that auto manufacturing is huge in Ontario. And there are a lot of jobs involved. But is Canada really better off with GM as opposed to Toyota and Honda? Wouldn’t they just pick up the slack if GM had gone under?
And if Chrysler had gone Ch.11, couldn’t Magna have bought it instead of Opel? I thought they tried to a couple years ago and failed. Although Opel might be the better bet technology wise, Chrysler’s closer. And there isn’t as much overcapacity in the US market as there is in Europe.
Besides, to be honest, the whole GM/Chrysler thing is a really bad bet. And I thought that the Canadian government stayed away from those. We didn’t have a choice because of our economic situation. And because we’re bleeding manufacturing jobs. And then there’s our massive trade deficit. I know you’re also losing manufacturing jobs, but you don’t have the trade deficits we do, so I would have thought you would have more flexibility.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Post that link.
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September 11th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Sh|t man, my 2002 Ford Explorer did the same fukin thing. Got damn car. Hate that MuthaF$%^&* thing.
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September 11th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Way to tell ‘em. Good points all.
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September 11th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Please do not use Ed for anything public. (Or other execs!)
Use GM engineers and designers. Practice, practice, practice! So that they are entirely at ease and casual.
It will be Bob Boniface, Frank Weber, and all the other extremely terrific workingmen and women that we have seen here on this site that will communicate best to America and the World the good stuff that GM is producing.
Rotate around all these dynamic pros who speak our language with at least 15 infomercials each, in all the markets, specifically targeted.
Executive positions used to communicate in the 80’s with Lee Iacoca very well because he was a new KIND of voice.
We want the professional workingman’s and working woman’s voices to tell us entirely new (but simple) tidbits of technology not spoken of before. Even if they are just 15 second to 30 second “techno-teasers” at a near-whisper. And please do not worry that everyone will not understand anything techno. It is about time American that are not techno started to work their underworked techno side of their brains a tiny statement at a time without hearing all the whining that “we don’t know what that means”.
Then get your butts over to this site and start to learn something that isn’t at all hard to begin to learn. PERIOD.
*************************************************
THAT IS WHAT WILL WORK!!!
*************************************************
And, don’t forget to pay them some well deserved bonuses for these!! (No bonuses to execs for once).
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September 11th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
If GM vehicles are so bad, then why is the Chevrolet pickup the longest running truck on the market. I see a lot more older GM vehicles on the road than I do older Japanese vehicles. I wonder why?
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September 11th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
That 54 billion dollar figure hasn’t been adjusted for inflation, or the rise in stock market valuation. Toyota’s total market cap today is 131.65B.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=TM
And that’s down from nearly 240 billion in 2007.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/18/magazine/18Toyota.t.html
And GM was much more dominant in its day than Toyota is now. I’m not sure what their market capitalization would have been in today’s prices with today’s stock market, but 60% would definately have gone for well over the 64.1 billion we put in.
By the way, I’m not saying we should or even could do this–but we could get that 81 billion we spent on Chrysler and GM back rather easily if we raided their pension funds.
http://moneywatch.bnet.com/economic-news/blog/macro-view/the-gm-pension-plan-a-100-billion-problem-swept-under-the-rug/641/
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September 11th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Just to clarify–I meant the above as a question. I really would like to know why Canada got involved. And if I remember correctly Canada offered money before Bush did, so it wasn’t just about keeping your share of the manufacturing. Obviously, I appreciate it, but it doesn’t make any sense to me.
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September 11th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
I doubt that GM execs are very popular with the public, so they would do far better with workers, engineers, etc.
This could be extremely smart….
In the UK when there has been over production of cars, many were “sold” to rental companies on the tourist island of Jersey (which has a speed limit of like 1 mph and about 20 miles of road). Then they were “resold” on the open market as “used” but with really low mileage (think 1000 miles).
So GM would keep its margin on vehicles not returned, and still move volume for vehicles that are returned, while enticing new customers.
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September 11th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
You have some excellent points there.
What needs to be recognised is that Ottawa is IN Ontario and the bulk of our population is too, therefore the Ontario provincial issues (which is a heck of a mess right now) sound much louder to the federal government than others.
Out here in the west we’re lucky to get mentioned in Ottawa, and the Prime Minister is FROM Calgary! Go figure.
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September 11th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
I’m thinking road trip! Get a nice spanking new Escalade, load up the family for a cross country trip. Then return it a month later with a simple “thanks, but no thanks” GM.
Sounds like a great plan, who else is in?
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September 11th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Actually the birthplace of the automobile was in Germany by Karl Benz.
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September 11th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
I set up the mirrors that way, too.
Compared to the Prius, the Ford Ranger, the Ford Tempo, the Honda Accord, and even the Volkswagen Jetta, the pillars are huge. The pillar is so huge creates a blind spot to to the front-left of the HHR that can hide a compact car that’s passing me one lane to my left on the Interstate — and I’m quite accustomed to moving my head around to see around the pillar in the cars that I mentioned earlier in this paragraph. Driving the HHR was like having tunnel vision.
It’s a shame, since it seems that the HHR hit the mark in so many ways. I figured that this didn’t impact sales of the HHR, since this problem didn’t really start to bite us until we started to feel comfortable in the car — which takes a lot longer than a typical test-drive. I wonder if this 60-day return policy would see a disproportionate amount of HHR’s returned?
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September 11th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
LauraM:
I slightly disagree with you. You don’t necessarily need a good product, or even a product at all. You can succeed with outstanding marketing alone.
2 Examples come to mind:
Microsoft: Crappy product, 90% market share.
Harley Davidson: Outdated, slow, poorly engineered (no engineering?) product with a huge market share that has nothing to do with the competitiveness of it’s product. Not only that, they (Harley) has an accessory line to sell you components the bike should have already come with from the factory. They will sell you these components at outrageous prices.
Before you call me a Harley basher, I own a Road King and I ride a Harley police bike 10 hours a day so I have every right to bitch.
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September 11th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Hey, when you’re getting paid by the comment, you don’t want to put a lot of time and effort into each one.
They try to create so much static (no pun intended) and background noise that it gets so old that people lose interest.
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September 11th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
LeoK:
He’s getting his facts out of the lower portion of his anatomy. They aren’t facts, so he can’t check them. My advice? Don’t waste your energy trying to be reasonable with this stuff.
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September 11th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Speaking of Canada, we saw Neil Young on TV last night from the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville. He sang Ian Tyson’s “4 Strong Winds”, with Emmylou Harris on background/harmony vocals. Now there’s a shot of Canadian culture that would knock your socks off.
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September 11th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Yeah, and spare me Bob Lutz. If GM can’t put a more modern face than Bob Lutz on the company, it is doomed, IMHO.
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September 11th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
I’d much rather just buy it new for a bit more money than go through some convoluted dance like that. As they say in the UK, “Too clever by half.”
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September 11th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
One vehicle that I think a lot of people ought to check out at the dealerships is the new 2010 Chevy Equinox. I’ve read several reviews so far, and all of them are good. It’s getting better reviews that the Honda CR-V and the Toyota RAV-4. It sounds like GM has a potential bestseller on their hands.
The smaller SUV segment is definitely one that GM should put plenty of resources into and try to dominate. With GM’s experience with bigger SUVs and trucks, they should be very good at making the smaller, fuel efficient ones that compete directly with the RAV-4 and the CR-V.
If I were in the market for a smaller sized SUV, I would probably take GM up on their offer. I’d at least test drive one. The money back guarantee is a bit like an extended test drive. From what I’ve been reading in the reviews, this Equinox will be a “keeper” for probably 99.5% of the people who buy it.
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September 11th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
The more I think about this advertising stunt, the more I think it’s a baaaad idea. I don’t know if GM’s stopped to realize how many “Kenny Powers” are going to step out of the woodwork with just enough credit history to qualify for a 2 month free ride . . . but I’m thinking there will be puh-lenty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI8×94EVQ7E
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September 11th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Maybe Karl Benz is credited with the first IC engines, but Henry Ford turned automobiles from being an expensive hobby for rich people into a gigantic, worldwide industry when he brought out the Model T in 1908. The Model T was the first PRACTICAL automobile on the planet that average people could afford. It is the car that opened the floodgates to the auto industry we see today.
I’m hoping that the Volt is the first (somewhat) affordable, no compromise ELECTRIC drive vehicle that opens the floodgates to a whole new era of automobiles. If GM is successful with the Volt I bet they’ll definitely be around for another 100 years.
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September 11th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Change of Subject… I wonder where Toyota got inspiration for this car interior?
http://green.autoblog.com/gallery/toyota-auris-hsd-full-hybrid-concept-2/#10
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September 11th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Just build my Volt Dangit!!!
No Power Windows
No Power Adjust Seats
No Power Side view mirrors
No Power Sunroof (Actually No Sunroof at all)
No Power Door Locks
No Power Trunk lock
No Radio (Remember that fiasco? – Get an iPod)
No Heated Seats
No MuthaF@#$&# OnStar!!!
Make the garbage I listed, but another mans treasure, an “Upgrade” for those who want these creature comforts.
Standard Features:
4 Wheels
Highway Capable
Power Windshield Wipers
AC
Heater
Defogger Front/Rear
Cupholders for Big Gulps!
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!!
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September 11th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
I’m with you on that Noel, at least now when I can afford to be.
I’m not sure it really worked for the UK car industry, that was back in the days of British Leyland (who have long since passed), so many things contributed to the demise. So maybe you are right “Too clever by half.” I guess that it is something to try when your back is against the wall.
However, 20 years ago, I couldn’t have afforded one of the “used” vehicles with 1000 miles (often less) on it. So sometime in between then and now that might have appealed to me.
Also looking at the GM ad, I think that the GM exec does quite a good job, partly because he admits he had some doubts before taking the job – empathy with GM’s doubters.
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September 11th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Worse they won’t even know for 2 months if it is good or baaad.
They could try to gather demographic data on who is most likely to return, and then later in the program “Pre-qualify” people who do not fit the “Kenny Powers” demographic.
There is a counter balance (as I said in #39) it will help move volume, and the used vehicle will likely be a bargain, and thus attract people for which a new vehicle was just out of reach.
The risk is the ratio of “Kenny Powers” to real new customers.
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September 11th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
POWER windshield wipers?
I’ld love to see the non-powered in use…well…make that a video of them in use. Not sure I want to be close enough to see.
Heater?
WTF. Man up!
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September 11th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Yeah, post the link. I didn’t get any email either.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
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September 11th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
Yep,
Almost as if they don’t WANT to sell you a lower priced (lower profit margin), economical (less petro $’s to oil funds who’s directors are also auto manufacturer directors) , lower maintenance (less $ to Mr. Goodwrench) vehicles . . . . . Hmmmmmm, now why would that be?
I think Ford has changed their ways. The Focus has been a decent competitor in the small car market for a few years now. GM and Chrysler? — we’ll see.
The whole idea that they just can’t compete is B.S. They’ll tell you about unfavorable conditions and unfair trade practices and all this other B.S. but then at the same time sell much higher quality small cars in other countries . .. all the while implying that you’re unpatriotic if you go out and buy a high quality small and economical car. (We don’t have one of those, but how about an all american 4 wheel drive decked out SUV?)
It’s all about the money boys!
Big Dan T can tell you all about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDd_ryixqyA
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September 11th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Koz:
You mean you never saw a Jeep with no wiper motor(s) and little handles inside the windscreen to move the wipers back and forth? You must be a young’un, LOL.
I saw some coverage of Le Mans racing in the rain recently. Lots of drivers carry a squeege or a little dust mop thingie in the car to use when the wipers and/or defrosters fail, as they all too often do. Maybe the Captain could order one of those and save a few more bucks, hehehe.
Captain:
Double ditto on the sunroof. No way, no time.
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September 11th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
This add is a winner as in a long deep shot over center field !
The GM products are now there to back it up….for real.
As I launch my own products in the coming weeks nationally I have learned a few surprising things….
Blogs serve the competition very well. They hire people to come on here and spin against what your doing, your goals, your dreams.
In this case GM, the Volt and the brilliant add campaign we see here.
Also what surprised me is when you do things like google adds where the goal is to get people to click on your add and bring them to your product….competitors hire people to click your add and burn up your add budget…each click eats your budget as you pay for each and every one of them…and they try to…. and in many cases do indeed eat your budget…. so minimal people get to your product.
As for the few that try to get under your skin by bashing GM….ignore them….
GM is back and the gloves are off. (Thanks Bob)
Please GM build the Buick Concept, the Converj, The Z/28 Camaro and the new Vette….I can name others to build…but you get the message.
Being September 11th and that fact that I was there at ground zero to help the next morning on the 12th…thank God for your Family and Friends
perhaps a moment of silence to remember.
Cherish your family and have a great evening.
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September 11th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Noel Park:
It is nice to have his post with good links for all to see. Thanks LeoK!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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September 11th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Perhaps it’s just me, or a slow news day.. Even Statik’s attempts at humor seemed a bit forced.. But does this entire topic/thread have anything remotely to do with the Volt?
How about the mileage numbers after 40 AER? That would get me interested.. How goes the plant builds, how many IV’s now?, how about the ICE starting transition?
This is just marketing to help unload the cars/inventory that they already have – I don’t really care, as Im saving my pennies to 2011 (Buy me a VOLT!), so this current “pitch” really doesn’t mean alot to me.
Give me a Plug, or Give me Death! (well, maybe not literally)
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
My reply is still “awaiting moderation”…bottom line is that it had a unique id that could only be used once.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
No windshield, no problems. Just bring some toothpicks to dig the bugs out of your EV smile.
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
I remember well when Japanese cars and motorcycles were junk.
Things change.
Goldstar used to make crap electronics. Now they changed their name to Samsung and compete with the big boys on quality and even top them.
Things change.
And that’s why we should not write off GM and Ford. They can turn things around and IMHO they are already well on their way (with a little help from the tax fund in GM’s case of course).
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September 11th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
I am in the process of buying an Equinox right now. I test drove one last week. The 4 cyl / 6 speed ran fine for me. Less power than I have now but that is the point (it also gets better mileage than I get now). I want a 4 cyl. I would like a tiny car with good mileage for commuting but I am in a carpool and I hate small cars. The problem is that I am not small myself. My head hits the ceiling and on days that I might have a back or neck issue (more common than I like), getting into the small cars is a real pain in the arse.
I wanted to get a car and started with the Malibu. Feeling cramped in the cockpit I was not sure. Then the Equinoxes started to come in. They have way more room and are similar in style to the Malibu. A car poolers dream and great for weekend warrior activities. (I wish my car pool buddies had Equinoxes).
Just a note. In the Baltimore/Washington area, these things are selling as soon as they hit the ground and sometimes before. I am talking with a few dealers and each of them tells me that the 4 cyl models are being sold as they arrive. It is common for them to tell me that they have 3 on the way and they are all sold. I have been trying the drive one for 3 weeks and just got a chance a few days ago. Twice I had gone to the dealer to test drive one only to find out that it had sold. Its tough to test drive a vehicle when the new owner is sitting at a desk signing papers.
They are building around 530 of them a day up at CAMI and the news just said that they started a 3rd shift. I assume that in a month or so they will catch up with the demand and start building some inventory but right now the 4 cyl 2010 Equinox is hot.
Owner reviews that I have found are almost all positive. Some don’t like the 6 speed shifting. I found it to be very nice.
I hope to order one soon.
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
May be because Lutz wanted to add “BTW, that global warming thing is a hoax” … and “Obama lies” for good measure
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Do you really think it’s going to pay for itself in reduced fuel bills? You must think gas is going to go upwards of $10/gal soon. Here’s an example, other than fuel savings I can’t see any tangible benefit the Volt has over a civic. You can argue it has many intangible, feel good, earthen benefits and that’s fine, but let’s just compare $ for now. Assuming the Volt doesn’t retail higher than $40,000, and you do get a tax break of $7,500 when purchasing here’s how it works out if you opt for a volt over a civic.
Assumptions:
12,000 miles/year driven
$4/gallon gas
$32,500 for the Volt (230 mpg)
$16,000 for the Civic (36 mpg)
Breakeven point for purchase, assuming you bought either car with 0 down, 5.5% financing for 60 months:
It would take 23.89 years to break even. I think my assumptions are pretty rosy. I drive about 4,000 miles/year. My 71 vette (which I’ll probably put less than 1,000 on this year) get’s 15mpg, I paid 15,000 for it, comparing it to the Volt, it would take me 27.5 years to break even if I started driving it as my sole vehicle. Put in $22,500 for a prius that gets 55mpg => 93 years for me, and 31.2 years for someone who drives 12,000 miles/year.
If you lower the 230mpg number into something less childish and more believable, let’s say 70mpg, then the civic comparison above goes to 42 years.
If you’re thinking you are a potential Volt buyer, aren’t you planning on doing some kind of cost analysis if you believe that the “green premium” will somehow be made up for by savings on fuel?
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Gary,
If everyone had your experience with a GM car, then GM wouldn’t need this Hail Mary play, would they?
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
As the day wore on and I was able to read the newspaper and so forth what became obvious is that GM is doing an excellent job of having marketing, advertising, and PR work together.
Using the trick that political campaigns have honed, GM managed to get huge press play about the ad by making the running of the ad and its message a news story. The ad was front page in the NY Times, on cable shows and NPR, and of course on internet sites like this one.
Nice job GM of stretching you ad dollars 1000X and making the claims inherent in the ads more credible.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
That’s initial quality. Nobody cares. If GM can’t screw their cars together properly by now, they deserve to promptly go out of business.
And there’s no useful or persuasive evidence in view that says GM long-term reliability is catching up. The GM cars of 2003 are not holding up particularly well (in spite of what Lutz said at the time).
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
Initial quality. Pfffft. Nobody cares. Wake me up when ten year old Impalas have the reliability of ten year old Camrys.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Too funny… You said “long term reliability” and posted a link to an article about 3-year stats.
I’ve got 4 Toyotas in the driveway, average age is just now hitting ten years, average mileage is well over 100K and they’ve required nothing but routine maintenance, wiper blades and brake pads (the car at 150K did get new rotors, too). Period. No failures, no fixes.
Oops… I forgot… a backup lamp. $2.50, installed by the dealer for the cost of the part during an oil change, no labor charged.
4 cars. 10 years. No failures.
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September 11th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
N Riley,
Here’s a heapin’ helpin’ of reality for ya:
http://www.desrosiers.ca/2007%20Update/Documents%20and%20Reports/2006%20OBS/Obs2006-8-Vehicle%20Longevity..pdf
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September 12th, 2009 at 2:09 am
All I saw was the Volt at :42 seconds. Why would I want to buy another common gas guzzler till then?
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September 12th, 2009 at 4:47 am
hmmmm well I certainly care about initial quality.
Have any evidence that GM vehicles since 2000 aren’t holding up?
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September 12th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Thanks dagwood55. Great link.
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September 12th, 2009 at 7:09 am
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Good points…I agree.
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September 12th, 2009 at 7:17 am
About the paint falling off on your 88 Olds, back then the EPA would not allow a certain chemical, which I forgot the name, to be used in the US while it was allowed in Japan. Back then , all Japanese cars were imported to the US so they had an advantage. Without the use of that chemical, paint would peel off. It was only many years later that a new process was developed that made paint better.
I think the Japanese gets so much undeserved credit, it’s pathetic. For example, when we had one of our first gas crisis in in the 70’s, I remember people saying that Japan had the foresight of building small cars. Hell, that’s all that built back then. It’s the same story today. Anything to discredit the domestics.
Read some of the blogs from this web site, it’ll make you sick.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-zombie-watch-17-may-the-best-automaker-win/
My point is: people in foreign countries don’t try to destroy their industries, but we do. I’m really afraid of the future of this country.
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September 12th, 2009 at 7:47 am
I forgot to mention about the above link. The author will remove your blog if your opinion is too much in favor of GM. That’s probably why it’s so anti GM.
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September 12th, 2009 at 8:22 am
GM still makes shitty cars and trucks. Ford is OK, and Toyota and Honda still rule when it comes to quality. As for Chrysler, they will die in the next 18 months. Too bad, I will never buy an American car unless it beats Toyota for cheaper price. Here in Central flroida, Toyota has a market share of 30% in the last 24 months. GM? about 15%.
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September 12th, 2009 at 8:31 am
Here it is…
( http://survey2.gongos.com/GP9410/Default.aspx?pid=00007707 )
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September 12th, 2009 at 8:31 am
Well, I trried to respond to both Tag & Jack, but it put the reply in the same spot.
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September 12th, 2009 at 8:38 am
Beyond Fossil just posted an article about Volt.
It’s “But”…. 9/11/09″ at the top seemed a little too over-reactive as much as the article was impractical.
Apparently lamenting that getting plug-ins [expeditiously] down to where the government wants them (Volt, and other plug ins) down to $28,800 for “most people” to buy them, [faster than practicable IMTO] would be a type of major fault, as the apparent message.
Well, you can’t go “zero to sixty” in two seconds either.
If I can’t afford a Volt right away, what’s the big deal?
It’s just the way it is.
This next full year is needed anyway to help others who can indeed afford one to be more educated to proper expectations, usage, and if it is right for them in the first place.
We can’t all just get what we want all at once. Extracting that much out of the planet would have tipped the thermal balance for us all with end results manufacturing-byproduct-CO2 a decade ago.
I’ll gladly wait for when and if it is my turn to get a Volt.
Until then,
NPNS for anything else but a Volt.
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September 12th, 2009 at 8:46 am
After using hundreds of hours of high power computer time, detailed modeling and statistical analysis, I am pretty sure you get 50 MPG or 40 MPG depending on which assumption I select for an input parameter.
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September 12th, 2009 at 9:30 am
it would be a one time stunt.. it will affect the credit history of a young person heavily..
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September 12th, 2009 at 9:48 am
If more op-eds are going to be posted by statik, then I think it is only fair for him to be considered a public-persona. That means it is only fair for us to receive a complete bio of who this person is.
Otherwise, there might be considered too many things that need to be kept hidden about that person whomever he is.
Why all the negative baggage all the time?
Is there too much “free time” available for all this unfounded negativity?
The bio needs to be checked out independently for facts without hedging and “filler” before listing it with full name and address and email address.
At this point in time, I would consider that GM will begin to consider the helpfulness of this site as a “neutral”, or begin to decline from “neutral” because of that.
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September 12th, 2009 at 9:54 am
Nice. So you have three spare Toyotas to keep the other one going. Awesome idea!
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September 12th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Now why in the world would you want to know his address, Dan?
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September 12th, 2009 at 10:41 am
You DID notice that SATURN (a GM division) was #3 on that list for “Passenger Cars Bought 11 to 20 Years Ago that
Remain on the Road Today” didn’t you? Right behind the much more expensive Lexus and Mercedes.
Looks like GM is quite CAPABLE of making high quality and super reliable cars when they work hard at it. They need to have CONSISTENT reliability and quality now. Just like you need an NFL QB who can consistently get the job done, with a good “QB rating” and all that.
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September 12th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Not that I would use regular mail at all. I don’t use email. (And I certainly don’t mean for a security problem).
Simply that I think that at some point, if you can’t have some background on someone where you don’t have enough foundation about their motives, you can’t as easily agree with them or disagree with them.
When I saw that first small picture, I got the impression (true or not) of someone that rides a bicycle, lives with their parents, and has no job as far as first impressions regarding all the negativity all the time, as if it were all written by a habitually-unfulfilled yet a skillfully-composing bitter individual.
I don’t think there is a normal (IMO) basis for that much relentless predisposition and prejudice to negativity against GM. I would not at all mind having a more fuller understanding about the writer (which could allow for some greater room for his perceptions). But the poor thing about the internet, is that at times,
“You can fool some of the people all the time”
“You can fool most of the people some of the time”
“But you can not fool all of the people all of the time”.
Does that answer your question?
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September 12th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
hmmm … no one notice the Converj in the ad??
I hope that is a teaser for the fact that it has been green-lighted!
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September 12th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
That would really be additionally-impressive!!
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September 12th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Well that’s the beauty of an open internet forum like this. If you disagree with what’s been said, you and anybody who wants to can counter. All the while leaving it up to the individual reader to decide what’s right and what’s wrong. Controversy is what keeps interest (and the hit count) up.
It’s just bad form to call out for someone’s private address on a very public internet blog. The only reason I think anyone would disclose this is if they thought they were garnering some free advertising in the process — also bad form. (imo)
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September 12th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
I accept your point on the private address, but it was not intended as per street, but for country. Not entirely unmerited, even though it might be common knowledge already. It would be just part of trying to find how to understand, if not an attempt to try to accommodate, (and laugh off creatively), all this negative head trip lots of us are getting tired of.
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September 12th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
There was much more in the video than the Converj look real close.
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September 12th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Assuming, that you plug in your Chevrolet Volt every night,
20miles weekdays roundtrip
5miles Average weekend
120 miles roadtrip every 1/2 year
For every 6 months
670 miles will be electric
80 miles would need some gas
Assuming charge sustaining mode of 50mpg, you will use 1.6 gallons of gas. Assuming a conservative measure of the charge sustaining mode at 40mpg, you will use 2 gallons.
When its all factored together, you will have 469 mpg with a 50 mpg charge sustaining mode measure, and 375 mpg with a 40 mpg charge sustaining mode measure.
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September 12th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Dan. If you are criticizing Statik from the little icon you see here, that is not him.
That is Jemaine Clement of Flight of the Conchords. They are a comedy duo out of my home country of New Zealand, and have a show on HBO, and are what you call underground hip. http://www.jemaineclementfanbase.com/
Jemaine probably rides bikes, but I doubt he lives with his parents, and he probably makes more money than any of us here.
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September 12th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Dese mutha uckers defnly ride bikes. — It’s a good thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqxnm6t3QMw&feature=related
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September 13th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Post script.
Lots of complaints down through the years of impersonation of “handles”. Perhaps Lyle’s programmers could set up something based on the known email address, to block usage of a “handle” by saying (to the fraud who attempts to misuse someone’s “handle”,
“Sorry, that name is currently already in use. Try another.”
What would be so hard about that.
Plus, it’s usually consistent that when failure is prevalent in someone’s life, negativity is also consistently there, but without any substantial helpfulness actually meant for readers.
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September 14th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
He did use led in the first paragraph.
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September 14th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Given my history concerning the Wal Mart 90-day return policy, I would like to jump all over this. But I have to guilt trip everyone because we should support GM.
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September 16th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
I think GM shoot itself in the foot – you CAN NOT return the vehicle if you were in an accident but the car was repaired.
No one knows when they will get hit at a red light..
Defeats the purpose of the program..
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