AND 
Survey Says 48% of US Consumers Interested in Purchasing a 40 Mile Range Plug-in Hybrid
Sometimes in our little world of GM-Volt.com it becomes hard to know how much consumer interest there really is in cars like the Volt.
Clearly there is interest, but how widespread is it, and more so how many people are actually considering buying one?
Pike research did a study to determine just these facts.
In a web-based prospective study of 1,041 respondents, it was determined that 48% of prospective US customers would be either “very” or “extremely” interested in buying a plug-in car with a 40 mile EV range, like the Volt. This was assuming electricity cost was 75 cents per gallon equivalent, home recharging, additional around town chargers, and the right features and price. Less than 20% had little or no interest.
The study also showed most buyers were willing to pay a premium for such a car. 49% said they would pay a 5 to 10% premium over a comparable gas car and 17% were willing to pay between 20% and 50% more. One-third said they would not pay a premium. The average premium people were willing to pay was 12%.
Of those who would not consider buying a PHEV-40, 45% said they wanted to technology to be more proven and 33% said 40 miles was insufficient. 29% disliked the idea of plugging in and thought it would be expensive, 28% thought the cars would be unreliable, and 25% felt the cars would be of lower quality.
The study also found that 82% of respondents drive less than 40 miles per day, with an average of 27 miles, and that 85% would consider fuel efficiency as an important factor in choosing their next vehicle.
Source (GreenCarCongress)
210 Responses to “Survey Says 48% of US Consumers Interested in Purchasing a 40 Mile Range Plug-in Hybrid”
Leave a Reply
Recent Posts
- New York Times Report on the Chevy Volt Generator Mode Driving Experience
- CNBC Test Drive of the Chevy Volt in Charge Sustaining Mode
- Chevy Volt Will be Able to Hit 104 MPH
- Chevy Volt and Battery Program Update
- GM to Announce Initial Volt Markets at LA Auto Show
- Coalition of Industry Leaders Releases Roadmap to get 120 Million Electric Cars on US Roads by 2030
- Op-Ed: GM Reports a $1.2 Billion Loss, but Has the Cash To See Volt Well into Production and Beyond
- Three Chevy Volt Paint Color Finalists Announced
- What BMW Has Learned from the MINI E Program So Far: That They May Need to Build EREVs
- GM: EVs are Cool, but EREV’s are Really Cool
Recent GM-Volt Forum Posts
- Hacked e-mails reveal global-warming fraud? November 20, 2009This is how open minded liberals operate. "And, perhaps most reprehensibly," Delingpole writes, "a long series of communications discussing how best... […]BigCityCat
- Is the Volt Engine Direct Injected? November 20, 2009I recently read that the Cruze's engine will be DI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_Cruze#Chevrolet_Cruze Obviously the Cruze's engine will... […]omnimoeish
- First Reports of the Chevy Volt's Charge-Sustaining (Generator) Mode Operation November 20, 2009The first two journalists' reports of what it's like to drive the Chevy Volt while in generator mode operation have been published. 1) New York... […]admin
- Florida giving $5000 rebate to convert Prius to plug-in November 20, 2009- Probably Hymotion - $10,400 standard price - $5000 state rebate - $1000 additional federal incentives - $4,400 final cost. Hurry because their... […]Texas
- New York Times CSM story November 20, 2009Link to the New York Times story of November 19, 2009 about a test ride of the Volt in charge sustaining... […]srschrier
- New video: Volt drive in Detroit November 19, 2009November 19, 2009 Detroit Free Press story with video featuring a Volt drive with Andrew Farah in... […]srschrier
- New Video: Volt Corrosion Testing November 18, 2009From GM VoltAge, the Volt's corrosion... […]srschrier
GM-Volt.com is not affiliated with General Motors Company
All contents copyright 2007-2009 GM-Volt.com, LLC - All Rights Reserved
Home | Contact | Privacy Policy | About | Back to Top
September 10th, 2009 at 6:22 am
They did ask me.
From the article:
The study also showed most buyers were willing to pay a premium for such a car. 49% said they would pay a 5 to 10% premium over a comparable gas car and 17% were willing to pay between 20% and 50% more. One-third said they would not pay a premium. The average premium people were willing to pay was 12%.
——
Here lies the cost issue. 1/3 won’t pay a premium and the average premium is 12%.
If people want a small fuel economy car, do they pay $32,500 for it. I think the answer is no. Most of these hybrids are not cheap yet. Thank goodness we have the early adopters to help drive the costs down. Competition will do the same thing as many of these car makers will have EVs or EREVs on the streets in a few year. Good luck to all of them.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:23 am
All because of you Lyle.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:26 am
They did ask me, either.
I’d look for those numbers to change significantly by 2012, when the Volt has been in production long enough for word-of-mouth to get around.
And in the meantime, I’ve no doubt that GM will sell every Volt that it makes,so I’m not worried about the low percentage of respondents willing to pay the premium that owners will fork over for the first generation Volt.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:29 am
Sorry. They didn’t ask me. Darn typo.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:31 am
From the article:
This was assuming electricity cost was 75 cents per gallon equivalent.
Really, 75¢ a gallon equivalent?
I had no idea it was that much. I was thinking it was
around 10¢. Of course it will vary depending on where you live and how you get your electricity.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:36 am
Asking about a “plug-in hybrid” isn’t the same as asking about an “extended range electric vehicle”. The extremely interested 22% may break down to being just 5% that are interested in the Volt or the high end Tesla.
The 52% who currently represent the “not interested” reveal the high water mark. From here on out, this number should drop several percentage points per year. In 2015, it’s very possible that 1 of every 3 car shoppers will test drive an electric before buying.
=D~
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:40 am
An excellent survey.. very surprising numbers, its understandable that people do not want to pay a premium.. but that may change suddenly if gasoline gets hard to find and expensive.
12% is a workable premium, after all a BEV will be a much simpler car, no ICE, transmission or associated components.
I wish they had asked about different battery packs, lets say a 10, 20, 40, 60 mile range and so on.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:41 am
$0.10/kwh is rough US average. In the case of the Volt, assuming their 50mpg goal, this is about 11kwh from the wall. So, it is more like $1.10 in electricity per gallon, but in comparison to a similar ICE car that averages 30mpg it is about 7kwh ($0.70).
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:41 am
As I said before I would have bought the Volt Concept as soon as it was available, but now I will be more incline to buy Fisker Karma at twice the price for better performance and those great lines. Does GM not understand why people who can afford a business jet will buy a Gulfstream with less interior space before they will buy a 737 for less money and twice the space or why people will buy a two door before they will buy a four door car? GM’s marketing needs to get some real people who understand people and how and why they will spend their money!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:42 am
It didn’t say 52% is not interested, it says 42% are “very or extremely” interested. There’s also those who are “somewhat interested” according to the pie chart in the source link.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:44 am
I missed that.
I equate a Plugin with an EREV. But they are not the same.
I would have answered “not interested” had I thought about it.
I can’t find the original question that was asked, but if someone asked me if I wanted to purchase a plugin vehicle with a 40 mile range, I would say no.
If someone asked me if I wanted to purchase a plugin vehicle with a 40 mile range and a 300 mile range extender, I would say yes.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:47 am
No its a good number.. compare a car that gets 30 mpg on gasoline.. it consumes 1 gallon to go 30 miles.. a typical BEV will consume 0.250 kwh per mile, thus a total of $0.8 if electricity is $0.11 per kwh.. its in the ballpark.
The extreme case would be if you had a solar porch to charge the BEV, your other car was an SUV and gas was not available except on the black market and at high prices.. You would see a lot of electric bicycles then.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:47 am
Seems kind of typical, doesn’t it?
The American consumer wants the high end technology, but only if they can have it at the Wallmart price, and only if it has no inconvenience to them…..
Straight BEV’s are going to have a problem for a while, especially if the “news” shows some stories of people being stranded on the road with empty battery packs.
The Volt idea still works for me!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:56 am
I am sure there are people willing the pay the cost of a small house for a car.. how many do you think there are and how many Karmas will be sold?
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 7:06 am
The “little world of GM-Volt.com” is not so little
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 7:10 am
These numbers will only improve as time goes by. Most people are barely familiar with these newly developing cars and I do not think they really understand all the details of these various classes of cars that are coming on line. I am not at all surprised at the numbers shown. Clearly short term gasoline prices and availability will have a great influence on the rate electrification is adopted.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 7:18 am
Haley.. I understand your comment. Most of the “somewhat interested” and even the “very interested” will not buy a first year electric car. I consider myself “extremely interested” and may wait a year or two. Just being honest.
=D~
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 7:36 am
I’m sure hoping that by 2012 the prices start coming down because thats as long as I think I can keep my current car going. And I am fairly confient oil prices will be far north of $100 a barrel by then, likely around $200.
Soap box time:
The prices of gas works both ways in the equation. Higher gas prices will make it easier to get electric cars.
The higher gas prices are the more a premium you would pay to drive electric. The higher gas prices are the more demand for electric cars which will drive prices for the cars down not up. This is because every car company is already competing in EVs. The impediments to prices dropping are battery improvements and selling enough cars themselves to drive down the production costs. Once they are selling millions of these a year, and industries pop up to recycle the batteries (buy the old ones), and economies of scale and all the other improvements that will come, the battery prices will fall and so will the prices of the cars.
How about we give people what they want. People want big cars and cheap energy. 95% of the people love the freedom of driving where every they want when ever they want. Maybe 5% or less of the people prefer to walk or ride bikes every where they want. There is nothing wrong with personal choice.
If someone wants to ride a bike 20 miles in a loop from their house that is fine. It is also fine if a family puts 4 bikes on their SUV, drives 40 miles round trip to do a 5 mile loop.
The point is lets spend the next 20 years building Solar, Wind, Geothermal, Hydro and Nuclear power generation so that after it is all built we don’t need any fuel for the next 2 billion years. Just maintain what we have so we can have cheap energy to power our Suburbans and Tahoes that have 100 KWH batteries. We can quickly learn to build large capacity cheap batteries that we can recylce. Or maybe Large capacity ultra capaciters or a combination.
Lets just assume that the technology will eventually end up with what people want, so lets go with the flow instead of against it.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 7:39 am
FME III –> Agreed that the first 10K will be easily sold to people who want an interesting and novel car. After that, I am really uncertain. That’s because there is so much emotion and identity tied to car purchases.
For the Volt I’m not sure who is going to be speaking logically but feeling “I’ve really got to have this one.” That’s in contrast to present-day Cameros (gotta go “room-ROOM”) and present-day Cobalts (gotta have a reliable car, cheap). Maybe they are out there, but my imagination is having a hard time bringing them up.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 7:41 am
As more education regarding Voltec continues, the World increasingly understands the extreme value of this engineering.
This is why I have been saying that far more production facilities ought to be in the planning stages immediately.
The only bad thing about the reorganization, is that excessive normally-resulting conservatism has impeded considerations for more rapid expansion of Voltec production facilities, in this extremely-unusual case where research investment yielded exceptional breakthroughs for electric propulsion.
All this hoopla about “government motors” is exactly the sort of thing that slows the needed **private** investment to greatly expand Voltec production facilities. And, as more people read each day for the next 14 months how extremely far ahead of everyone else GM is, even the most misled radio listeners will more likely accept that the best thing that ever happened here were the exact situations that have in fact occurred via federal requirement influences to have Voltec brought about. (Including the 10 year/150,000 mile battery warranty!!!)
Imagined-lower Voltec costs exclusive of that one-time warranty battery replacement included-cost would be an extremely BAD thing, because you can never again have the advantage of wholesale-cost economies of scale (and people that know what they are doing!!!). And, the replacement responsibility is a standardized responsibility of GM customer satisfaction and performance.
It is not going to be efficient, workable, **or motivational** to improve battery performance any other way. We are not changing out a 12 volt battery here!! The difference is as much as comparing a tricycle to a motorcycle.
It is time for some more boldness to somehow offer GM (et al) management more ways, methods, and opportunities to greatly expand E-REV production facilities.
Talents investiture is clearly indicated with the above findings.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 7:44 am
LazP –> You’re right that most people have only a fuzzy and fizzy idea of what electric cars are or how they might look or be used. As they fill in those details in understanding, what is going to get them excited? It has to be more than passing interest, if it involves thousands of additional dollars. With the Prius it is green-snob appeal coupled to a car that is actually pretty good. Will that be it for the Volt, or can it reach a broader market?
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 7:45 am
What do they mean by “premium price”. The maintenance costs on the Volt will be extremely low in relation to say a diesel powered vehicle. After 400,000 miles you will have to change the wheel bearings and the brake linnings. Electric motors can last 100 years with no maintenance at all.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 7:54 am
“29% disliked the idea of plugging in and thought it would be expensive, 28% thought the cars would be unreliable, and 25% felt the cars would be of lower quality.”
actually i thought some of the results indicated a great deal of people have no idea what benefits come from an electric car – more expensive to run (it will be cheaper by a long shot), unreliable (despite less moving parts), low quality (still made by the same people, so it would at least be comparable).
Also, it would be interesting to know where the survey was conducted, this can influence results substantially.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 7:57 am
Yes, when the Chevy Volt and Fisker Karma are seen on the open road far from home, while the BEV’s are tethered to their chargers in the urban and suburban areas, people will get the point that these vehicles can be used like a normal automobile.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:06 am
For my driving pattern it would have to be compared to a poor city mileage ICE car. If replaced with a EREV or BEV it would be like gasoline dropping to $0.31 per gallon. Or put another way, $4.50 of electricity compared to the $40.00 worth of gasoline I use to fill my tank.
Sure I could buy a cheaper gasoline car with way better CITY mileage, but there is something about sticking it to the petro-funded Dictators that I like.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:08 am
Is no one talking about the MPG rating of the Volt in the ICE mode? This mode is very important to me as I do a lot of long distance driving. I would love to get 50 MPG in the ICE mode as originally advertised. Is GM backing down from this number? If GM went to a diesel motor/gen set, could they “up” the ICE mode MPG rating? Frankly, I would loose a lot of interest if the true ICE mode MPG rating were in the low 40’s.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:09 am
I think all the car companies are moving slowly, waiting for the Peak-Oil shoe to drop. Then they’ll go 100% the EV road. The point is they don’t want to stick their necks out and assume Oil will be $200 a barrel in 2012 ,because what if it is only $95 in 2012, and doesn’t hit $200 until 2018. They don’t know if the huge EV demand will be here in 3 years or 10 years.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:30 am
You can git any result you in wants by the way you done structure yer questions ? Why they not ask if they willy to pay greater than $40,000 on such hybrid.
Even Granny don’t believe such results stew pot ready.
Better hunker down and build that Volt right. If electric contraption run good buyer show up with cash. Jed Out.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:32 am
only 30% with negative views is amazing at this early stage.. apparently the public is ready for electric cars.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:34 am
Dan
I think you believe in the Voltec as much as I do. I believe EVERY major car company is going as fast as they can to have something to compete with the Volt as soon as they can before being swept away by the wake trailing Volt sales.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:34 am
(click to show comment)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:36 am
You forgot the windshield wipers will need replacing also. It would be neat if GM set up the Volt to never need an oil change or tune up.. dont dismiss it out of hand, it can be done..
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:40 am
The whole point of the Volt is the 40 miles all electric sweet spot.. you may be better served by a hybrid with a direct connection of the ICE to the wheels.. such as a plug-in Prius or BYD F6DM.
GM could go to heroic measures to get above 50mpg in charge sustaining mode but it may add several thousands to the cost.. probably no payback at all.
No diesel please.. I want simplicity.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:42 am
Most people don’t have enuff xperiance to make an informed decision on electrics. Once they actually have to depend on one they will quickly realize that 40 mile range ain’t gonna cut it no way no how and those numbas will drop faster than Obama’s popularity. woot.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:45 am
They could easily package an attractively priced maintenance plan, and either build it into the sales price or offer it as an option. We recently bought a similar plan for my wife’s new vehicle, because it made sense when we looked at the numbers. In fact, GM might be silly to NOT do this, since it would allow them an opportunity to get more data about how the car is performing in the real world.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:46 am
That is a huge ICE something like 1.4 liters of metal thrashing for a maximum of 42 MPG with direct injection, atkinscycling and coasting down hill with a tail wind. woot.
You may now begin losing interest.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:48 am
I hope the survey stated that the Volt could be used for long trips without worry of the battery running out and still get great gas mileage. I for one would not buy a pure electric. Those who buy pure electrics better stick close to an outlet, but I’m sure you’ll see some stranded along the road. You know how that goes.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:50 am
I totally agree with you, Russ
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:50 am
I have several alternators, generators and starters in the garage that would strongly disagree with that statement.
No long term real world tests have proven the those electric brushless motors would last. Americans don’t treat their cars too kindly and Bubba will surely beat on those A/C motors like nobodies bizness.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 8:52 am
Even bearings can last almost forever.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:00 am
You will be required to take your Volt in for periodic ICE maintenance and Firmware Updates and OnStar Grid feedback adjustments. This is not your fathers Olds, GM must keep owners on a leash else troubles will escalate exponentially. For GM dealers this car will require a big change in the way they operate therefore only select dealerships who have advanced training and sophisticated diagnostic consoles to t-shoot Volt will be allowed to even sell this puppy.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:03 am
“Crack?” “buttocks?” You’ve been reported.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Right Jason,
I share your opinion,
JC NPNS
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Those 22 percenters must have been made up of Volt tards that frequent this site. The vast majority of people don’t know about Volt, Tesla or Any Electric cars. They actually have little or no interest at all. These numbers looks skewed as hell. Not buying the koolaid today my friends.
- Thug
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Why are you examining your uncles buttocks?
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:09 am
It may be true ultimately that people want big electrics and hybrids, but in the nearer term that thinking lead to the Toyota Hybrid Highlander, and GM’s full-size hybrid SUVs; none of which were sales successes.
I’m all for rewarding the behavior you want; in this case, I think big electrics should be the reward for creating that power grid you described.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:09 am
Herm.
many dealers (in my area) are offering 3 years routine maintenance with lease / sale..all fluid changes and tire rotations. wear and tear items not covered of course.
So if I buy a new Chev Equinox, I just show up and they do the maintenance and I drive away..NC.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:15 am
….um, batteries.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:15 am
Are you talking about BEV-s or the Volt? Or you do not know the difference?
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:17 am
The first couple years they will only sell a few hundred thousdand volts, it doesn’t have to be for everybody. Just people who pretty much drive 30-40 miles every day and can plug into their garage and have a second car for long trips.
Hopefully in 2012 they’ll have a new 2013 model with much lower price. 40 mile range will be fine if work places set up charging stations for the trip home. Then the car will appeal to just about everyone. Especially with gas at $5 a gallon or more.
I’m hoping in 2012 for a 40 mile EREV SUV anyways. I’ll plug it in at work and get around 20,000 AER a year. That will save me around 4-6K a year at what I expect to be minimum gas prices. By 2017 when the vehicle is 5 years old, I’ll be driving anywhere I want without thinking twice about the price of gas being $10 a gallon.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Troll
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Russ,
There has been LOTS of talk about the economy in CS mode.
Although I would really like that information I understand why GM is playing that card close to the vest.
14 Months to go.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Damn. Your imagination is running wild. $10 gas is totally off the hook. Can i get some of the stuff you are drinking or smoking. That must be some good sh#%.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:25 am
So, here in JAX where the nighttime/off peak rate is $0.048/kWh, in comparison to a similar ICE car that averages 30mpg it is about 7kwh ($0.34), or for my commute, a grand total of less than $0.60, but since my company provides the plug for free for the daily charge/fill up, around a quarter for a round trip!!! Okay, sign me up!
Zel
And Remember GM:
Jacksonville Fl, 54 mile commute round trip, 110v 20a plug at work to recharge and designated parking spot. Just saying I will volunteer. Really.
Plugging for a Plug-In!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:28 am
I admit it is impossible to predict future gas prices with any accuracy. You have to account for inflation, taxes, hurricanes in the gulf, wars and instability in the middle east. There are to many unpredicable variables.
What is for sure is the cost of getting it out of the ground is rising rapidly enough that $4 gas as a floor is pretty much guaranteed by 2012. What is hardest to predict is world wide demand outstripping supply and the resulting shortages driving the prices up. But that isn’t a matter of if but a matter of when.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Honestly, I’d LOVE to have a Tahoe Hybrid!
BUT, the $$$ point is way to high for this buckaroo.
I truly think all GM has to do is build a ‘work truck’ version of the hybrid trucks at around $25k usd and they will not be able to make enough of them.
The simple truth is that it’s MUCH cheaper for me to drive my ‘paid for’ truck and just close my eyes and hand over the credit card to the gas station attendant.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:37 am
Tommy, Tommy did your mommy forget to give you all your meds today ?
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:38 am
LazP, ignore ‘Studley’ it’s just the under bridge dweller being all it will ever be.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:39 am
yes, it’s obvious from the results that (like I’ve been saying all along) GM has to educate people. Such statements as:
29% disliked the idea of plugging in and thought it would be expensive
Expensive to plug in and operate or more expensive than a gasoline powered car? If the former then that’s an education issue, if the latter, then that’s true until mass production brings the cost down.
28% thought the cars would be unreliable
Unreliable in opearation or are they thinking that this is a BEV and will be unreliable to get them to where they need to go? With the Volt, again this is an education issue.
and 25% felt the cars would be of lower quality.
They must have seen the first and second gen Prius :^o
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Gas is already over $8 usd gal in Europe and $5 usd gal in Canada.
Who is smoking the good sh#% troll?
Why I think it’s YOU!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:48 am
i am EXTREMELY interested in a 40 mile PHEV. the problem is exactly what this blog is showing, i just can’t pay $40k up front with a tax return to follow later. the numbers MUST be derived from current spending habits that show $20k – $25k is the norm for cars. i don’t own a prius, but this is where that car sits and thus is where our beloved volt should sit. it would assuredly be the hugest automotive hit of all time if the volt cost were $25k….GUARENTEED!!!
the wallet doesn’t have a fudge factor for the masses, they can afford X per month and so they buy a vehicle that fits X. which vehicles can then fit X amount are what they then factor which one they like the most. this is the same principle as house buying. which ones are available and have the style one likes from X amount of money.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Divorced already?
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:48 am
If GM included maintenance (ala BMW) in the Volt price it would be over $50K and scare even more people away.
Remember the Volt will have many more parts than your typical gas car today. It has hundreds of battery cells, thousands of connectors, more wires and connectors, fuses, etc than you can imagine and all this in addition to what a normal gas car has. The end result is that maintenance costs on the Volt will be staggering (actually frightening or mind boggling may be a better description).
The Volt will be what Mr. Goodwrench has dreamed about his entire career. It will make his SECOND career.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Am I expected to believe in another poll that headlines 48% of US Consumers. I do not at all believe that a 1,041 respondents is an indicator of US Consumers that is interested in the Volt let alone, buy one.
GM should not get themselves into the old trap of making up such things as this which is somewhat like the high estimated Miles Per Gallon fiqure that they tried feeding the public. GM needs to stay perfectly honest.
The NEW GM needs to adopt an approach to making A market for VOLTEC and get some copies of the Chevy Volt on the street and the hell with the Internet Winnies. Let the public see it NOW!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:51 am
I’m wondering where on the web the respondents were found. Was it multiple sites or a single site? I’m wondering if that affected the replies. If it was at a “green site”, I’d guess that it should be read differently than if it was on a petroleum web site. As always, just curious.
I DO think that as “old man” said, every car company is scrambling to field something to compete with the Volt, so that in itself would indicate that they (and their research people) think that there are a lot of potentially interested people out there.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Largest segment on the pie chart: “somewhat interested somewhat disinterested” (or if I may paraphrase, “meh”), 34%. Second-largest segment, “very interested,” 26%.
I cannot help but wonder what those segments would look like at 50 miles, 60 miles (or for that matter, 20 miles or 30 miles) of electric range.
Sooner or later, I think GM is going to have to question it’s “40 mile” sweet spot, and enlarge it. I vote for sooner.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:03 am
I had a shot at a truck at a great price during the height of the ‘carpocalypse,’ and even though I actually need one rarely, I was tempted. I couldn’t have justified another vehicle, though; so it would have been my daily driver. I would’ve hated it at the gas station.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:04 am
I expect that my company will be highly motivated to install charging stations because I fully expect the government to offer carbon credits or royalty reductions to any company that does so. Given my daily commute and assuming conservative charging times, I fully plan on charging my battery primarily at work on their tab. Any residual charging, if required. I would do at home. This totally gives me all of the savings that I would need to justify paying a “premium” over ICE cars.
We should all keep in mind that there will be a significant “conversion” process to move from fossil fuels. Initial steps will be the least profitable and the benefits will be marginal. Once things gain momentum, all parameters will improve.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:04 am
It DOES seem there is a growing intrest without a doubt.
Your point of offering different battery sizes in a survey at this point is just too soon though. It ‘muddies’ the waters and confuses the potential customers.
As it is there is going to be a LOT of ‘public’ education required so that people understand how an EREV works. That has to come first.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:04 am
The BIG EVs can’t be justified until gas gets to $4, $5 a gallon and upwards, then the fuel savings pile up much faster on the larger vehicles for obvious reasons. We still have a couple years to go unless some instability in the middle east or something speeds up the process. But I’d buy one now if it were available for simple logic. I’m buying the vehicle for 10 years. So if my net fuel savings are only $1-2,000 the first year or two, I know when the unprecedented energy shocks come, I’ll be sitting pretty.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:05 am
I’m surprised, no make that shocked, that 100% of the respondents knew what a plug in hybrid with a 40 mile range is. In my experience most people wouldn’t know what that would be.
At this point the responses are probably determined by the wording of the question. You could goose the positive responses by asking something like: “Would you be interested in purchasing an electric car that would use inexpensive electricity to get 230 MPG in city driving?”
The reality is that people want everything. They want a car that gets 230 MPG and they want a vehicle that weighs 2 tons and can carry one quarter of their house around and they want it to be inexpensive.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Right on the money.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Heh heh… it happens!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Should they spend gazillions now for a car which officially won’t exceed a 250,000 unit volume in 3 years, or invest in the deployment of HCCI which can theoretically revolutionize many more vehicles at a lower cost?
I’m not bashing Voltec by any stretch, just suggesting that the current commitment may be appropriate for it’s status as a brand new kind of car.
I think I would wait until closer to breakeven on GM’s cost to produce before committing “to greatly expand E-REV production facilities,” even though I’m hot for the Voltec future to happen. It won’t happen if the new GM can’t make it past the next 4 years.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:12 am
I would assume the 22% translates into being able to sell up to 22% of the cars sold as Plug-in Priuses, Volts, Karma Fiskers, and other PHEV’s. So tell me again why only 10,000 Volts in the first year? 22% of 9 million units is a market for 2 million PHEV’s. It would seem 100,000 Volts could be sold, at $32,500.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:16 am
now I will be more incline to buy Fisker Karma at twice the price for better performance and those great lines
Depends on your poser quotient, among other things. While it’s true that the Karma is a nice looking car, it’s also true that it’s not nearly as efficient and it’s likely to be less reliable and far more expensive to maintain. The reality is that the Volt will have the coolest technology and, while it will be premium priced, it’s not going to be $90K, which puts it in the “Unobtainable” category for the vast majority of people. Plus driving a Chevy with cool tech has a certain amount of reverse chic appeal.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Jackson, you are not wrong.
But lets let them get the Volts wheels on the road first.
(To paraphase Tag…)
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:20 am
At the expected Gen 1 $40k price point Jay has a point.
A $25k Gen 2 car would turn that on it’s ear though.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Van 22 .. we don’t have enough information to deal with this issue now. What is the sticker price? Is the $7500 a tax credit or an instant rebate? What mpg is expected after the initial 40 miles (battery)? Can parts suppliers keep up with a high rate of production? Will the battery be leased or included in the sale? Does NGMCO have the money to fully fund a quick release?
And as a few have already stated here. Isn’t it better to have a small controlled release rather than a blow out with possible recall repercussions?
The longer NGMCO delays the more the competition grows. Where is the Cruze?
=D~
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:21 am
As more education regarding Voltec continues, the World increasingly understands the extreme value of this engineering.
In this regard, nothing would focus minds like $5/gallon gas.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:22 am
The problem is, the study showed most people would accept a 5%-10% premium. But the Volt is about a 60% premium over a similar $25k car.
I would guess the percentage who are willing an able to put up that kind of premium is very very low.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Great point. Also, with so much new tech, it’s likely there will be some failures. For example, with the EV-1 the biggest initial problem was with the tires.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Totally understood.
My truck does ‘truck stuff’ I drive an older Malibu as my commuter.
I have the luxury of having the ‘truck’ as the ‘third’ car.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:25 am
People in the “extremely interested” category of the survey are either early adopters (for whatever reason), or are using the same farsighted thinking concerning what could happen to the price of gas over the vehicle’s expected lifetime.
I’ve even wondered if one might buy a Volt with gas prices low, and intentionally use the range extender more than one might ordinarily like, in order to get more battery life later; when it could be crucial.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:29 am
I am extremely interested in a Volt but I think my chances of being able to purchase one in 2010 or 2011 for $32,500 is very low. I might end up settling for a Fusion Hybrid next year. Eventually I see my wife and I owning 1 EREV and 1 EV.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Don’tcha just hate it when a troll jumps in on you, and makes it look like you’re responding to him?
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:30 am
PeteVE;
Well I think we all need to learn a new math.
Let say you buy your car for $22,000 and take out a second loan for 10 years at 7% and a monthly payment of $255.44 (not recommending you do this, just trying to do apples to apples).
And I go out and buy a vold for $33,000 after tax credits and I take out a second loan mortgage for 10 years at 7% and my monthly payment is $383.16.
However over those 10 years the average gas price is $4 a gallon more than the cost I pay in electricity for the 50 miles (usually more) I drive every day electrically because I charge at work and at home between trips on the weekend. So you get 50 MPG with your Prius but I save $130 on energy costs and now (383.16 – 130 = 233.16) I am saving over $20 a month on my transportation costs versus your prius.
Plus I’ll not have to pay for oil changes or buy a foreign car. I’ll know I’m helping my country by not burning fossil fuels, and my energy dollars will go to Americans Utility companies instead of funding terrorists that kill american citizens and soliders.
Plus I am 100% certain that over 10 years from 2012 – 2022 the net savings per gallon will be WAY over $4 A GALLON.
Only problem is I’d rather have a SUV than a volt, but I’ll take what I can get.
My Mom just gave me my meds, so I’ll feel better soon.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:32 am
That’s the great thing about ‘possum innards. They’re just as good the second day.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:34 am
All we can do is … wait.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Agreed.
There is always the possibility of over-delivery (also somewhat Tag-like).
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:35 am
You’re absolutely right and GM certainly understand this. But new tech doesn’t come cheap. The choice was to introduce the Volt at a lower price later or at a higher price sooner. GM made the right choice IMHO by opting for the earlier, albeit, more expensive, release.
Gen II will lower the price and there will probably still be at least some form of rebate available. Remember that less than ten years ago the first digital SLRs without a lens cost over $5K for a sensor with a couple of megapixels. Now you can get one with a lens and a sensor with over 10 megapixels for under $500. The drop in prices for the entire car won’t be that dramatic, but we should see fairly quick price reductions for many components.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:35 am
I am sure the Nissan LEAF will be ready for you and your wife early 2010. Hold on a little longer and you won’t be disappointed. Oh, and you won’t need more than $20K for this great American made pure electric. We look forward to serving all your needs efficiently and affordably. See you next Spring and have a nice Fall and winter.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Muddy Rover Bob:
Yeah, no kidding. Nobody’s perfect, least of all me, alas.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:40 am
I could go for that if there were also a green credit or other incentive for companies (or individuals) to install solar collectors. Here’s why:
If, in a few years, most drivers charge at work, it will put much more of a strain on the grid than night (’off peak’) charging would. Solar arrays would bolster the grid, precisely during on-peak-demand charging. The solar arrays need not be installed at the place where the charging is being done, though this would be a plus.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Good report Lyle. Even when willing to pay a 12% premium I wonder from what cost are those people thinking. Maybe 12% over a car that would normally cost them around $22,000? If so, that means they are willing to pay only $24,640 for a vehicle like the Volt. That is a long way from the Volt’s expected cost of $32,500 after federal tax rebate. Looks like most of these people will be waiting until 2015 or later to purchase a Volt unless game changing fuel cost comes into play.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:44 am
Jackson:
I guess we’re going to have to go back to addressing our comments. It’s handy to just drop in a reply, but after 2 or 3 (or more) other comments get in between, it is really difficlult to follow who is responding to whom.
Having said that, they are pretty active this AM aren’t they? Warming up for the next big push of astroturfing on health car, IMHO.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:47 am
This is the best news I have seen here in some time. Given even the most optimistic projections of Volt production I have seen, it looks like the niche will be more than big enough to absorb all of them and more.
LJGTVWOTR!! Time’s a wastin’.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:48 am
“In this regard, nothing would focus minds like $5/gallon gas”
… except maybe sitting in lines for hours to get $5/gallon gas.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:52 am
A teaser is out on the plug in prius:
“The battery allows strong, seamless acceleration up to a maximum 62mph (100km/h) in EV mode. On a full charge, it can cover approximately 12.5miles (20km) in EV mode”
——————–
If this is in the EU cycle mentioned, then real world AER will likely be closer to 9 miles. Battery size has not been released.
To me, the real point of interest will be how much effort Toyota put into “blended mode” programming and what will the blended mpg results be on daily 40 mile cycles (100 mpg +?).
Also of interest, the price (of course). One would think that with a 6ish kwh battery this car could come in under $30k once the “shine” wears off (not incl. any rebates).
Frankfurt Preview: More on Toyota’s new lithium-ion Plug-in Prius
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/10/frankfurt-preview-more-on-toyotas-new-lithium-ion-plug-in-priu/
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:54 am
“Oh, and you won’t need more than $20K for this great American made pure electric”
… unless you want a battery to go with that fine Nissan automobile.
Also, the Volt is not a pure electric; that would make it less usable.
Thank you, CarlosG for helpfully illustrating the kind of deliberate misinformation and outright falsehood that the great unwashed public is going to have to wade through over the next decade.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:58 am
“Electric motors can last 100 years with no maintenance at all.”
WTF? Show me an electric motor that has been used regularly for 100years. Or even 75years. The Volt has BOTH an ICE and Electric Motor. Now you have to deal with two items to maintain. But wait, there’s more…..
You have the battery pack which requires monitoring too and will most likely need to be “Polled” for data on ocasion by the tech at your local dealer to see if anything has gone wrong or is within failure threshold.
This is not less maintenance, it’s MORE.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Or as Jeff Rubin has predicted $7/g
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:01 am
they really cant get any worse..
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:03 am
“I admit it is impossible to predict future gas prices with any accuracy. You have to account for inflation, taxes, hurricanes in the gulf, wars and instability in the middle east. There are to many unpredicable variables.”
can you imagine trying to run a business that uses a lot of fuel?.. deliveries, airplanes etc.. it must be hard on your nerves.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:06 am
we hope it was an honest and professional survey.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Yes Jackson I do hate that!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:07 am
I just got my Apple-Certified Solar Charger for my iPhone 3Gs. So my question is where is the GM-Certified Solar Charger for the Volt ?
Don’t tell me it can’t be done. For 2 hours of daylight i am getting 30 minutes of 3G talk time on my IPhone. Seriously it can be done GM.
Well I’m still waiting. It’s time for GM and the Volt to go Green.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:09 am
you realize charging at work for free would be taxable income?
I think a good business model is for utility companies to provide the chargers and power for FREE, as long as they can use a minuscule portion of your battery for grid stabilization.. just make sure all those cars are charged up before the afternoon peak demand.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:14 am
HErm
I’m definitely not questioning the honesty of the survey. I’m just questioning the sampling procedures. Some pollsters do it very well, some, eh, not so much. It does bear on the results.
Major IQ tests use just a few thousand people, but it’s a stratified random sample that reflects the general population of the US. This one may be closer to those described as “unscientific” or NOT.
I’m definitely hoping it’s been well done. We just don’t know.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:15 am
from $32k to $25k is a 28% premium..
Why not compare the Volt to a BMW or Mercedes of similar size?, after all the Volt will have a luxurious level of comfort, rarity and performance “feel”.. and use much less gas, many fewer trips to the gas station so more convenience also.
Dont forget, the chicks with the hairy legs will be all over you.. so it is a chick magnet also. Just make sure it is nice and soft hairy legs
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Excellent news! I’m willing to consider one on that basis given my usage patterns. If only they can make it less ugly.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:19 am
DonC,
I suspect some percentage did not know what it was, but responded out of “reflex” either yes or no. People do have habits of answering questions about things they know nothing about especially when it only requires a yes, no or maybe answer. It was an interesting survey although it is much too soon to expect opinions to be formed around any kind of decision one way of the other.
As you indicated, a person usually responds based on how the question is framed or worded.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Still trying to “bait” GM, I see. Well, good luck. I would think you are in a good location to be close enough to a city where some of the first 10,000 will be sold. I would expect Florida to get a small supply. If so, go get you one.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:25 am
There probably was some education before the survey started, things like what a BEV and EREV are and so on.. just this little bit of education is enough to make some people fall asleep so it probably weeded out some of the non-techies.
Surveys are very far from perfect.
http://www.marketresearch.com/vendors/viewvendor.asp?vendorid=3710&g=1
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:26 am
It should relate to around $.03 to $.05 per mile. $75 per gallon for a vehicle normally getting 25 MPG is the same as $.03 per mile electric cost.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:29 am
The evolution of the prius/ electric cars is starting to feel like that of computers/cell phones to me already.
The “blended mode” programming — which I would consider a key feature of the plug in prius — Toyota appears to not be offering at this time. Kind of like when the first iphone came out and you knew gps would be an awesome feature (and it’s inclusion was rumored) but apple held back on it till the v2.
I suppose that’s the way it will go. At least 9 mi aer would get me to town and back inbetween convenience charges.
/ at least gen iii is a little less ugly then gen ii (imo)
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Looks like MB is joining the scrum.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/09/10/s500_hybrid_merc/
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Yeah, by now we all want to “stick it to the petro-funded Dictators”. That certainly ranks very high on my list of why I want to purchase a Volt like vehicle or a BEV. I say stick it to them until it hurts all the way down to their balls. Ladies, please excuse my terminology but I could not think of a better word to say it with.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Polls like this don’t tell me anything. Just get the Volt out already. That will give you the data you require. Many can say their interested and say they’d buy but how many will is the true question. The answer will only be available once the car is available. Personally I think they should flood the Market with it. 10,000 for the first year just sucks a$$ for a BIG, ok not so big anymore, company. I think this small number is a mrketing ploy to get the best bang for the buck. Supply and Demand as Mr. DonC would put it.
Just get the Volt damnit! so the gen3 can get out so I can afford it….lol
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:32 am
This survey must have been taken in Podunk. It does not represent the opinions in America’s Hearland, that is for sure. And just for the record I don’t live in Podunk.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Jay has a very valid point if you can afford to pay the money for a Fisker Karma. It is certainly much better looking than the Volt. And who is to say that the gen 2 Fisker Karma will not be much cheaper than the current $80,000. Same economies of scale will apply, just on a smaller scale because Fisker will not sell the volume as GM. At least I don’t think they will.
I really don’t understand Jay getting negative votes for his comment. It was not a negative comment about the Volt. Come on people, be fair.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:37 am
DonC,
What you say is correct, but Jay still has a valid point. Plus, we don’t know the Karma will not be chocked full of technology and not be reliable. It may be just as reliable as the Volt or the Tesla Roadster. Let’s hope for the best for both vehicles because we need them to be successful and bring their cost down a lot.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Yes, Jim I. That formula worked well for Walmart, but it drove a lot of manufacturing jobs to countries like China. The same thinking will probably drive the Volts of the future to be made in China as well. I understand the 4 cylinder engine for the 2010 Chevy Equinox is made in China. So, what’s next? Sad for our country that we demand the lowest price over domestic production.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:41 am
“….the Vision S500 returns an average of 88mpg”
___________
That’s not bad on a 10kwh battery and a car that likely will curb out at over 4500 lb.
/ Probably on 30ish mile cycle with a full charge (?).
// The Frankfurt auto show next week should be quite interesting. (Renault’s now bringing 4 EV’s)
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:42 am
There are some large motors used to haul ships out of the water in S Florida, close to 100 year old I believe.. probably have been rebuilt many times.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:43 am
You guys are just plumb full of quotes (g), and it’s an honor to be quoted.
Thanks,
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:48 am
You are right Captain, but lets be honest about how ‘much’ that really is…
For example;
Our Subaru has just over 220000 km on it.
It’s getting a new wheel bearing as we ’speak’.
And it needs a set of tires before winter.
I put some new spark plug wires into it last year.
It will need a replacement exhaust next year.
3-5 oil changes a year (depending on the driving that happens that year. It has an aftermarket washable air filter in it that I service once or twice a year. (K&N)
That’s about it.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:50 am
A Tritch!
Troll + B|tch.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Nicely illustrated!
A similar comparision (although less dramatic) can be made with diesel power.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Agreed here too. My main reason for wanting to support the Volt and EV’s of any type is energy independence.
As it has been said before, we fund both sides of the war against Islamo fascism.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Another reason why electric vehicles will be taking over a lot sooner than people realize.
The Post office has already determined they can replace 150,000 of those little trucks they use. They ran studies and 99% of them go less than 40 miles a day, 80% go less than 28 miles a day.
Perfect application for electric cars, which will result in predicable expenses over time. They can plug them in easier than taking them to the gas station or having their own fuel complex.
But of course they’ll have to wait a couple years till the prices come down to start replacing their fleet.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
West Coast posting here ends up being buried past the 100th post – anyways we slog on. This Pike PHEV poll indicates an X% chance there’s a significant market for EV’s. Nothing more! No one’s ever driven a VOLT. No one has any idea if the car meets expectations – or even what those expectations are – or what the economic climate will be at intro. Its been a very long time since a new US model created awe that brings oohs and ahhs. That’s the mission for VOLT. Should VOLT even roughly match Fisker’s range potential – and that can only happen if it makes its ER ICE comparable – that’ll do the trick.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
The price of batteries and motors might be going way up according to this articale.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/6082464/World-faces-hi-tech-crunch-as-China-eyes-ban-on-rare-metal-exports.html
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
I can live with the percived uglynes as most see it. I don’t give a sh|t what others think of what I drive. You should see my 96 Saturn, lol.
The fact that this Prius can go a little above 60mph in EV mode is great because most of the time my commute get’s me only up to 45mph with rubberneking drivers watching the construction going on or knuckleads on their PDA phones writng sh|t down. I rarely get up to 60mph anyway. Even if it only went 10miles in EV mode it’s the car for my cheap a$$. My commute is only 9.5 miles one way and I have plugs in our parking lot.
Bring on the EV anything!!!!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
” at least gen iii is a little less ugly then gen ii (imo)”
I agree.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Seems like 2 or 3 times a week a major car company is announcing a new BEV, EREV or gas – electric hybrid with at least 10KWH battery. Today was BMW.
3 thoughts.
1) GM was probaby banking on the fact that they’d be able to sell the first 50,000 – 100,000 cars at whatever price they wanted because of eager early adopters. But it seems like there will be many hundreds of thousands of competing cars in many different forms. There aren’t enough early adopters to buy all these cars coming on the market the next couple years. They will have to compete and lower prices quicker than the wanted to get market share. They will have to get those battery costs downs. The Volt is a 20,000 car with a 10,000 battery and they want to charge 40,000 because they think they can. I think they’ll be selling them for 30,000 a lot sooner then they want to.
2) Even if gas hits $5 in a couple years, (and these car companies must think they will or they wouldn’t all be racing to get a piece of the pie) there will be enough competition to get the prices reasonable in a short order.
3) The winners will be the ones that can get those battery costs down and have the best warranty on those batteries. These are the areas where GM may have an advantage with their head start.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
If you can afford a $80K car, why would you settle for the features of a car half the price? Jay’s comment says more about what he wants to buy than about what the general public wants to spend their money on. The vast majority of cars on the road are quite boring, yet they sell. Still, I found the original Volt concept to be too aggressive and not something I’d feel comfortable in.
For the record, I drive a MINI Cooper S. Not your typical boring sedan, but also not a low sexy sport car. Unique without being ridiculously flashy.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
This has been discussed time and time again.
It is simply not cost effective as yet to add solar panels to a car.
They simply do not make enough power to make any sort of difference in battery pack charge level.
They can and have been used to run a little fan to cool the interior of the car in summer. But that’s about the limit.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Hot off the Press….
GM to sell Opel to Magna
I assume Lyle is lining up the next post around this? Or maybe Statik will take a stab at this. I think this would be right up his alley.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090910/bs_nm/us_gm_opel
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
I believe GM is more likely to seek very hot and very cold temperatures for real-life testing of the Volt.
Florida is not that hot. Arizona or Texas is. And it’s not that cold, they can go Vermont or up north in Alaska. Or maybe in Canada, who knows ?
Nice try though, Zel
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
When I question her about an EREV my wife says it’s a nice idea as long as she doesn’t have to sacrifice her current AWD, handling, capacity, or convenience. In other words, as long as it is better in every way than her current Forrester she would consider it. So she won’t be going to any sort of EV any time soon. At least not before there is an SUV or CUV version available.
When questioned consumers always want the new feature or technology as long as they keep everything they’ve currently got. Simply make it better in all ways and cheaper at the same time.
At least they did ask if they’d be willing to pay more for a car with 40 miles AER. I doubt most will be willing to pay the early adopters price. But they won’t be enough EREVs for everyone for a long time anyway. If everyone had to have one we’d never be able to get our own hands on a Volt.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Yes my only concern about the ugly Prius is that I would have to look at it also. If I cared what others thought I doubt I’d drive my current ride.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
tom,
“…Let say you buy your car for $22,000 and take out a second loan for 10 years at 7% and a monthly payment of $255.44 (not recommending you do this, just trying to do apples to apples).
And I go out and buy a vold for $33,000 after tax credits and I take out a second loan mortgage for 10 years at 7% and my monthly payment is $383.16….
I am saving over $20 a month on my transportation costs versus your prius.
Plus I’ll not have to pay for oil changes or buy a foreign car. I’ll know I’m helping my country by not burning fossil fuels, and my energy dollars will go to Americans Utility companies instead of funding terrorists that kill american citizens and soliders.”
_____________________
Tom,
I never thought of it in those terms because I want to save up and pay cash for my next car.
The analysis sounds doable and practical except for a few concerns. If you keep driving the car for ten years then this can make some sense. I you sell before ten years and you are upside down ( the loan is higher than the value of the car) you’ll have to pay cash to end the loan or be paying for two cars, one that you don’t even have any more!
Right now a second loan is hard to get, and many homeowners are upside down, both on their Houses and their SUV’s.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
“Should VOLT even roughly match Fisker’s range potential – and that can only happen if it makes its ER ICE comparable ”
Ummm you DO realize that the fiskar ICE .(drum roll) IS made by GM?? So as far as acheiving comparability..negative perpiration…
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
SEMI OFF Topic..
I love trolls.
As GM-Volt.com becomes #1 in search engines, many people visit here..Trolls in their inherently ignorant and stupid posting allow us the opportunity to correct the misinformation.
Plus I enjoy the occasional slam to stupid people.
Brutus, willie, studley, john, carlos, dunderhead, moron, stupis, sleepy sneezy and dopey…you are welcome here and IWFTT (I will feed the trolls).
Thank you.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
“When I question her about an EREV my wife says it’s a nice idea as long as she doesn’t have to sacrifice her current AWD, handling, capacity, or convenience. In other words, as long as it is better in every way than her current Forrester she would consider it. So she won’t be going to any sort of EV any time soon. ”
That is a pretty reasonable attitude with todays gas prices and availability.. but an EREV does not have to give anything up to the Subaru Forester and even have an advantage since it can be refueled at home.. but it will cost more.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Yep. Here’s a copy of my post yesterday’s Fisker article.
The key to ER success is range and the engine (ICE) selected by Fisker is an excellent choice. Fisker’s ER ICE being capable (a belief based on the article) of charging to 100% (80% actual or whatever) the Li-ion SOC stand-alone addresses a serious barrier any pure EV’s faces — range. That being the case, VOLT has to take notice. In this late 2009 era of instant awareness and response to competition, I would think VOLT is pulling all stops to have an ER ICE capable of stand-alone charge to a reasonable, if not 100%, SOC. As Fisker has shown, a modest GM engine can accomplish the mission. Hardly is under 300 HP being overpowered.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Although Florida does have Salt in the air. This might make Jacksonville an overall more extreme place than Arizona
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Well I said I didn’t recommend doing it that way, I was trying to do an apples to apples on the value of money.
But I do think this brings up an important point.
When you buy an electric car with a $10,000 battery, you are prepaying say like 80% of your fuel expenses. So you’ll save at least $100 month and probably more on fuel and oil changes, so maybe you need to take that into account when you figure how much you want to finance or even lease.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
I like to include a small quote of the comment I’m replying to, if it’s in the same sub-thread, it may not need actual addressing (but you notice I don’t remember to do it every single time).
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
That paint scheme has to go..
Assuming Toyota is paying $700 per kwh of battery capacity, assuming they have a SOC of 50% (like the Volt) plus 30% packaging cost then battery cost would be $4500.. substract the cost of the present battery and you would end up around a total cost difference of $2500
So perhaps the plug-in option would be less than $3k.. how much of a federal tax credit do you get for a 6.25kwh battery pack?.. about $3k
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Lots of room on the roof of a mid-to-large Post Office for solar arrays, too.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
I DO NOT want a power company cycling my limited-life, expensive battery; unless it’s actually their battery, that I am leasing. I’m not too hot on leasing, either.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
“I would have to look at it also”
Um, only the inside; most of the time.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Sounds more like 3-4KWh battery to me. 2KWh from wall and lifetime buffer. This would mean AER is more ear candy then a practical driving situation. Battery only acceleration would be very limited, but as Carcus1 points out it is the economy under blended mode that will really matter.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Yes, but that goes against the main mission of the Volt which is to use electric first and use as little gas as possible.
Hence the running the battery to depletion and THEN starting the genset.
If the genset charges the battery completely then what’s the point of buying a Volt in the first place? That’s what a Prius does!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
I think he may be talking about a stationary gizmo you would plug the Volt into.
The trouble with GM providing this is that the need to adapt it to different physical circumstances at different locations better meets the business plan of a local installation service. Also, unless you’re actually going to stay home all day plugged into the solar array, you need to sell the power back to the utility, or invest in some kind of stationary storage system to go with it. Either thing has ramifications which go far beyond the Volt, or what GM might provide for it’s use.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Not Hearland maybe, but perhaps Heartland?
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
The Fisker also uses a lot of parts from the Solstice. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find them using many of the Volt specific accessory parts (such as the A/C compressor and power steering motor). Except for the battery choice, one could almost call it the Pontiac Sport Voltec-by-proxy.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
3) The winners will be the ones that can get those battery costs down, have the best warranty, and most successfully demonstrate the actual usability and practicality of their core concept.
I don’t disagree with you, I just thought that was an important addition.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Tom,
Canadians are already paying over $4.50 a gallon for gas , it just looks cheap because the price is in liters at $1.13
(A liter and an American quart are nearly the same volume)
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
I had to explain to someone again yesterday that the Volt’s ICE did not charge the batteries. This person was also an engineer in the auto biz, and they still didnt know this simple fact about the Volt. Its going to take time to educate everyone.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Never heard of Hearland. Must be Tritchanese crap.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
On your way out to the car, you’d just have to keep your head down– “fiddling with your fob”– till you’ve had a seat.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
“I DO NOT want a power company cycling my limited-life, expensive battery; unless it’s actually their battery”
Exactly!
The whole V2G idea is really bad for the owner of the battery in my opinion. It’s highly unlikely that they (the power company) will pay enough to make up for the lost cycles on the battery.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Technically you have a point. They make us re-iterate the basic truth and bunk the myths of the volt on every subject matter. This does help those that just view. I just like playing “smack the troll”. Kind of like that kids game at Chuck E Chees’s where you whack a mole. I’m just a different kinf of troll, a “Troller Park MAggot!!!!”
AHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Yes. I will have to see how ugly it is inside as well. But I’m likely to be even more critical inside since I will be evaluating the placement, operation, and look of controls and readouts.
But if I’m paying any sort of premium for a vehicle a groan-worthy exterior will probably be a deal-breaker.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Hey Carcus1, ever try to go look a the mythical bas model Prius for $23,000.00? I went to 4 dealers and nobody had one. The only ones available are the 3rd tier or whatever it’s called that’s in th $28K – $31K. I think they’re fake and don’t exist myself. Their claim of that model was just advertising bullsh|t.
Just IMHO.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Also hot off the press.
(I hope none of these are Volt engineers)
GM To Layoff 1,000 White-Collar Jobs In September
http://www.automotive-business-review.com/news/gm_to_layoff_1000_whitecollar_jobs_in_september_090909
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
It’s no myth, you can find them for under $23k.
http://photos.streetfire.net/photo/Wrecked-Priuss-because-a_1306390.htm
/(I’ve test driven but never got down to talking about numbers)
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
DUDE!
You’r killin me. You’re comparing a small ass solar charger that’s only the most 4Watts to a charger required to charge an 8KW batt pack? WTF you smoikn hommie?
Here, try his…..
Take the physical size of your iphone solar charger and multiply it times 2000 (8KW/4watts) and that’s the size of your solar charger for any 8KWh batt pack. Lemme know if you want to mount that on your car, I have tons of duct tape.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Amen Captain
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
If the Solstice is being discontinued, how long are they going to be able to source these parts? And where will the parts support come from down the road? And didn’t somebody say yesterday the the turbo engine package is being discontinued after this year?
Careful guys. Can anyone say “orphan”?
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
See http://www.dsireusa.org for rebates in your locality.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
And to think some yahoos on this site actually think those batteries will decrease AND that the manufacturers will pass on savings to the customer. Feeble minded thinkers with shrunken cortex.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
LOL! subtle as always my friend!
Correct of course, but sooooo understated!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
To me it’s a backhanded compliment.
If your forum kicks up enough dust to make some corporate players somewhere nervous, they roll up their PR guys and their “astroturfing” operation to try to take the edge off. Dr. Dennis, and we, must be doing something right.
Plus, it gets the ‘hit’ count up, which can’t hurt either. Bring it on boys and girls, it’s all good.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Lithium batteries like the ones the Volt will use do not use rare-earth metals.. brushless AC motors (like the one in the Volt) does not use rare-earth metals either.
The Prius uses permanent magnet brushless DC motors and that will be affected.. but they could redesign. Not sure if the battery in the Prius is affected, probably not.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
I think Laura M brought this to our attention a couple of days ago. The loss of Neodymium is more harmful to Toyota (is it a trace component of NiMh batteries? I know it’s used to make permanent magnets used in DC motors, which doesn’t affect the Volt’s induction motor).
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
sheez, how about if they give you a credit for the battery when you buy it, free power and a charger on every corner?
Minimum cycling wont reduce the life of the battery.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
It’s ok to suggest enlarging, but shrinking isn’t.
That’s interesting.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Is there anyway to get this thread to list posts in chronological order? I sure liked the old way better, easier to check back and read. If you wanted to reply to something you could cut and paste it yourself.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
…add,
That base model doesn’t have cruise control. Do you REALLY want a car without cruise?
/I bought my new pickup without electric windows, but couldn’t live without the cruise.
//wouldn’t be surprised if that base model pricing was just a lead-loss, “oops, so sorry, we’re out of that one” kinda deal
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
I do have to admit that the Cap’n’s response was more entertaining than mine.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Well, I did say “Pontiac!”
But seriously, did you see the link MRB posted yesterday about an HCCI test engine? It was apparently new heads and such bolted on a block from that same family. How hard would it be to substitute for the turbo?
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
I’m afraid I can get pretty sick of them, at times.
Also, how do you know that only a couple of dunderheads aren’t behind most of the names we see here?
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
“By the end of 2011, the company plans to shutdown 14 of its US plants and three warehouses and also the sale/elimination of its four domestic brands.”
WTF?!!!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Well, I have to try. You never know, they may read it my message and go, hey, he would be a great early adopter.
I hope to be a proud owner of the first in JAX….I got the first Prius, 130,000 miles later, getting very long in the tooth. So I am replacing a competing product too.
Zel
And Remember GM:
Jacksonville Fl, 54 mile commute round trip, 110v 20a plug at work to recharge and designated parking spot. Just saying I will volunteer. Really.
Plugging for a Plug-In!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
_____________________________________________________
#16 Tom Said:
“…By 2017 when the vehicle is 5 years old, I’ll be driving anywhere I want without thinking twice about the price of gas being $10 a gallon…”
——-
I agree with #16 Tom that 2017 $10/gl gas is possible.
The historic 10 year weighted moving average trend of gas peek prices (those periods of peek prices experienced prior to a correction) applied forward to 2017 makes a case that gas could reach $10/gl (in current dollars adjusted for inflation). But we may not need to wait until 2017 to see those kinds of prices.
A major regional conflict breaking out in the Middle East (i.e. Israel bombing Iran’s nuclear processing plants and Iran in response going on a bombing mission and/or Iran inciting a partial US oil embargo) would quickly move the pump price of gas to crazy high levels ($10/gl is not out of the question). Gas prices would remain at very high levels for the period of time that it takes (which period may take anywhere from weeks to many months) for the oil commodity markets to gain confidence that the regional conflict will not significantly impact the future supply of Middle East oil. Such a conflict could degrade into a situation that will require massive additional American forces deployed into the Middle East (perhaps including an invasion of Iran) in order to insure uninterrupted oil exports. An American invasion scenario of Iran and/or Saudi Arabia is an active DOD contingent plan as publicly disclosed by former DOD officials.
The above scenario represents one of several real world possibilities that could overnight drive up the price of gas to very high levels and/or may result in gas rationing (like in the 1970s):
http://www.uwire.com/Article.aspx?id=3749452
Purchasing an Electric Car (including the Volt) is a smart consumer purchase/investment because the consumer is in the process purchasing an insurance policy against wildly swinging gas prices and the possibility of rationed gas.
I have insurance to protect my business, my house, my car, and my health. I want insurance to to protect me against high gas prices…the Volt gives me that.
Electric Cars = Good Business Case
_____________________________________________________
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
The battery’s life is measured in cycles. Any cycling with the car not moving, or preparing to move is against the best interests of the owner.
Herm, let’s say you arrive in the morning at work. The electricity peak has already started, and grows throughout the morning. By early evening, it has started to taper off a bit, but it is far from ‘off peak’ when you disconnect your car to go home.
Exactly how does using the car’s battery during this period help the power company?
I’ve said it many times, and need to many more, perhaps: The utilities and electric car drivers will be far better served if the utilities develop their own battery infrastructure (and invest heavily in it).
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Update to my post.
Just picked up the car from the Subaru dealer and I’m in shock.
The job was done right and I wasn’t ripped off.
I’m usually right in there slagging car dealers when the job is done badly, so it’s only right that I acknowledge when it’s done right.
This doesn’t change the long term record of service but it certainly shows there is hope.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Flour corporation has built some coal to gas conversion plants but the break even price is around $5 gal. So I doubt in the long term that prices would go much over that. There is ALOT of coal around!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Since the overall drive of this site is pushing toward fully electric drive, that really isn’t very surprising John.
Personally I think the 40 mile (65 km) AER will work just fine in my world but I understand the desire for more.
If they were to reduce the battery size in the Volt you would end up with a high-tech Prius, and that’s pretty much already been done hasn’t it?
Granted it is currently done using an old fashioned mechanical transmission.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
You are in dire need of a Checkup from the Neck Up
Something is loose upstairs Bubba. No Chance of $10 gas. This year alone has seen some of the most numerous oil finds in history. With drilling techniques advancing rapidly look for many new finds between the earth’s crust. Big Oil is growing rapidly and will get even bigger. Their trump card is their large cash reserves. They can easily takeover the EV market anytime they choose. Many advanced batteries already use technology that is patented by Big Oil.
I am going to nominate you for the Daily Doofus Award.
Congratulations.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
They sure ‘feel’ like the same few (maybe even 1) people.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Thank you for that constructive reply.
The way Volt is currently being depicted outside of this website, the message is that it will soon (within the next few years) be a high-volume vehicle in GM’s product-line. That’s quite a difference.
So… what does that mean?
Is GM really just going to give the high-efficiency middle-market to competitors for at least the next 5-6 years (until Gen-2)?
What will their product-line consist of in the meantime?
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
I remember back in the days of my youth, that the power companies of our rural area were giving away free electric water heaters. The power companies would like to see more demand for their electricity because they can increase their profit margin. Straining grids, although real, would be temporary because the power companies that own the HV lines would need only a few years to gather capital to increase the capacity of the major trunk lines. This new capital expenditure would be justified by the new demand going forward.
As far as fuel prices go, I would predict a slightly elevated, but rather flat trend going forward. I base this on the assumptions that U.S. demand will be leveling off and/or decreaseing slightly, where global demand will be on the rise. The latter because the other countries of the world won’t be driving Volts for a while and are just now able to afford their first TATA Nano.
Nice post Lyle, as always.
The “pleasedonthurtmeforusingtheword’assuming’ ” P.E.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
I just took a fairly lengthy email-delivered survey* (it said it would take 15 min, but I needed about 20 min). The survey claimed to be about the Chevy Volt and it seemed legitimate. But I was troubled that it said the “Volt warranty would be for 100,000 miles or 8 years!”
Did anyone else get this emailed survey request?
*Email return address…. Chevrolet@emails.Chevrolet.com
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
OT
If you google even with just the term “Volt”. You get this site as number 1 out of 61 million hits! Amazing how big Lyle’s site is.
It came in no 4 in another computer I do not use for Volt search.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
Fisker is more or less skipping the IVR stage. That has to lead to more reliability problems.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
“carpocalypse”…. I like it!
It sounds like a term you should copyright immediately.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Jackson:
I’m sure that GM will be happy to keep supplying Fisker with some configuration of engine. It’ll be interesting to see what they are. Maybe they will stockpile enough of the turbo Ecotecs to bridge over until the HCCI is available? I wonder when that might be?
I’m just saying that a startup car company, which history shows to be a very shaky proposition, tying itself to a bankrupt engine supplier, which is in a massive starte of flux, change, and brand euthanasia, seems to be doubly, or maybe quadruply, shaky.
I’m not putting my $80K into one for sure.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Jackson & MuddyRoverRob:
As to a couple of dunderheads, or maybe even 1, I quite agree. It would not surprise me a bit if they are getting paid by the comment.
The blogosphere is what it is. I used to post on a couple of local political blogs, and the comments there made this stuff look tame. It’s all part of the fun. The moderator of one of them called himself “Sam Yorty”, after the erstwhile ’60s vintage Mayor of LA. One of his favorite exhortations to his followers was “Blog on, dum-dums.” That’s my response to the trolls.
Once again, it’s all good. A modern version of “Any ink is good ink.” We just have to thicken up our skins and laugh.
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Buddy, once you’ve had fur… you never go back!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
I agree with Jay. The concept car would give you the plug in capability along with a hot looking car. Once they watered down the lines, you are left with a car that has to compete mainly on the economics. Much tougher sell!
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
__________________________________________
Dr. J,
With all due respect, I think it may be you that is out of touch:
The new “oil finds” will be 8 -10 years until producing and that new production will at best displace the then depleted oil fields.
“Big Oil” was not able to in the 1970s prevent gas from being rationed and prices skyrocketing 3X in price overnight…what makes you believe “Big Oil” somehow today or in the future will have the power to override commodity market forces?
Big Oil is about profits (as they should be and have been) and they will follow the profit stream including profiting from battery related patents they may own.
The genie is out of the bottle with regards to the Electric Car Revolution…it’s the future…no turning back…there is no organization (however big) that has the power to put that genie back in the bottle.
Welcome to the Electric Car Revolution!
____________________________________________
(Quote)
September 10th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
hey, heres a neat experiment I tried for those who want the cruze. take a look at the cruze and take a look at the pontiac G8. Kinda look similar. As far as the volt goes I like it, More affordable than the converj concept or the other fancied up competition. A $40K volt is not bad when you look at the price of the pontiac G8 fully loaded or say an acura fully loaded.
(Quote)
September 11th, 2009 at 8:00 am
No, didn’t receive the Chevrolet survey request. I have received a few email from the local Chevy dealer. These feature the latest deals and news updates like, “We’re staying in business and hope to serve you”.
I had received a Pontiac survey a few years ago. Asking about the brand in general and my thoughts on performance and dependability of Pontiac.
As far as offering an 8 year warranty on the Volt. If 8 years comes standard with a sticker price under $40k. And with the expected features like GPS and leather seats. Then it looks like a pretty good offer.
=D~
(Quote)
September 11th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Hi MuddyRoverRob: As an ER EV the mission of the VOLT are many things: to mass-market, mass produce an all electric-drive car; to achieve or exceed a hybrid competitive MPG; and so forth. These missions or milestones can be thought as being generic advantages. VOLT has still another mission: caveat emptor of plug-in duties. Failure to comply with said duties results in a dead drive. That is unacceptable for a mass produced EV. On top of that the plug-in station infrastructure doesn’t exist. Secondly, whether the ER is sufficiently configured to achieve a 20% or 80% (or whatever) SOC makes absolutely not one drop of oil difference. The premise being what I call “Range Logic”.
(Quote)
November 3rd, 2009 at 12:19 am