The automotive portion of the Internet reverberated Thursday with the comment made by Audi President Johan de Nysschen in which he claimed that the Volt was a “car for idiots.”
The rush of negative press forced Mr. de Nysschen to issue a statement on the Audi Facebook page, in which he claims not remembering saying those words to the writer. Where have I heard that one before?
Anyway, we’ll let him speak for himself:
An online report today, subsequently picked up by various other forums, left an unflattering sense of my feelings toward electric vehicles and the people who support their development. Let me clearly state that, in my opinion, electric vehicles will be part of the future transportation of society – but only if we go about it the right way. In fact, Audi is working on electric vehicles.
I do not specifically recall using the term “car for idiots” during my informal conversation with the writer. It was certainly not my intention to leave the impression that I’m opposed to electrical vehicles, and if I was unclear on either of those points then I need to eat crow.
What I do recall is the essence of my contention, namely that the feasibility of the Chevrolet Volt as a concept is questionable. And that policy decisions – and the industry’s reactions to those decisions – are leading us toward a technology that may sound tempting on the surface, but, as of now, also contains many deep and unsolved economic and technological compromises.
“Mass electrification” of the vehicles on American roads could lead to problems like a strained electric grid. Large-scale utilization of electric vehicles will require massive investment in new power stations that are much cleaner than the ones in use in the U.S. today. Otherwise, it could merely shift greenhouse gas emissions from the tailpipes of cars to the smokestacks of coal-burning utilities. That’s not just my opinion. The California Air Resource Board this past April concluded that electric vehicles presently are second only to hydrogen cars in greenhouse gas impact when measured on a well-to-wheel basis.
Returning to the Volt, my point was simply one of its economic feasibility today. The 50% or so price increase that the Volt represents over a similar gasoline car cannot be offset through the savings from reduced fuel consumption. The only way to offset the extreme premium for the Volt is through taxpayer-funded subsidies. So I question if that makes economic sense.
Does that mean the Volt and other electric vehicles are forever impractical? Of course not.
In recent broadcast interviews, discussions with journalists and meetings with policy makers I have asserted that the future of automotive transportation lies not in any one “silver bullet”, but in a range of technologies that meet different needs – all while lowering emissions and fuel consumption. That includes plug-in electric cars when technological and economic hurdles make them more practical. It includes hybrid vehicles. And it includes clean diesel along with substantially more efficient takes on today’s gasoline internal combustion engines.
Admittedly I am a passionate advocate for the role that clean diesel technology can play in easing this nation’s challenges. Cutting through misperceptions about clean diesel and other technologies can be frustrating. If you’d like to hear my thoughts on these issues, go to a video of my recent remarks at www.audiusanews.com. Meanwhile, know that we are working toward a more sustainable future.
-Johan de Nysschen
So it seems he is focused on the old already refuted claims that electric cars will cause a “strained electric grid” and shift greenhouse gases to coal plants, despite studies by EPRI to the contrary.
He also seems to still be missing the point that the first generation price premium being offset by government incentives is necessary for GM and the industry to be able to ramp up to less expensive future generations.
Finally, he neglects the critical element that electrification of the automobile will allow America to become energy independent from foreign sources of oil.
And unless I missed it, no apology.
This entry was posted on Thursday, September 3rd, 2009 at 8:44 pm and is filed under Public Opinion. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+39
Sep 3rd, 2009 (8:59 pm)What a hole.
With him posing next to his $120K supercar, I stand by my previous observation.
+3
Sep 3rd, 2009 (8:59 pm)Poor argument against EV’s and EREV’s.
+9
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:09 pm)Who feels like an IDIOT now?
Yes, Volt is expensive. So was first generation IPods. If I remember correctly, the Gen 1 IPods were 599 $, this when other MP3 players were selling 200 $, but people linked up outside the apple store to buy, otherwise expensive IPods.
Second, third and fourth generation IPods followed. And became inexpensive and more importantly ubiquitous.
This will happen to Volt too.
+2
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:11 pm)This diesel-centric attitude has persisted in German auto circles for 50 years, at least. If it’s not diesel, German car makers simply aren’t interested.
To hand this moron and his haughty german company their @$$es on a platter, we should all be pulling for HCCI; which has the potential to make any diesel engine smaller than a commercial truck’s an exercise in absurdity.
I posted this, late in the last thread:
“In a nutshell, he is unrepentant. He stops just short of denying the use of the word “Idiots,” but it’s clearly what he thinks. His objections over the Volt concern mainly the economics of Gen I and he is openly critical of government support of mass vehicle electrification (a reference to the tax credit?).
He has misgivings about the US grid’s capacity to support EVs en masse which seem based mainly on misinformation and worst-case scenarios; which won’t in any case be applicable for decades (during which the grid’s engineering hopefully won’t stand still).
Mainly, his objection centers on his preference for everyone to adopt new diesel technologies as obviously superior.
Towards the end of his statement (which cannot in any way be misconstrued as an apology), he laments: “Cutting through misperceptions about clean diesel and other technologies can be frustrating.” Yeah, Johan; we know just how you feel.
In all, I see no reason to change my initial impression: the man is a self-serving @$$”
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:18 pm)Kinda looks like Ed Rooney, doesn’t he? Maybe Tony Montana could communicate the volt.com position.
Principal Rooney vs Scarface
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxKaYcQFP3Q&NR=1
-29
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:19 pm)(click to show comment)
+1
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:27 pm)I like baseball, and so it seems first he booted catching it, then he booted the toss. Lets just post a couple of “E’s” on the scoreboard and move on. Toyota may tell us more about their Plug-in Prius on September 15. Now that should generate some comparison threads.
+5
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:31 pm)Damn Skippy. Bought my first DVD player in 96 for $1000. If people do not get first gen, there will never be 2nd.
Also, with his lack of real facts, he needs to not eat crow, but raise a couple generations of them, cause he will need them.
Zel
And Remember GM:
Jacksonville Fl, 54 mile commute round trip, 110v 20a plug at work to recharge and designated parking spot. Just saying I will volunteer. Really.
Plugging for a Plug-In!
-17
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:32 pm)(click to show comment)
+6
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:33 pm)I did not see where he plans to increase Audi’s “0.6%” U.S. market share. It certainly will not be through his charisma and fashion sense.
+8
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:33 pm)I smell a new Chevy Volt T-shirt.
Reason’s why I’m an idiot:
- Oil Independence
- Investment in America
- No Tailpipe Emissions
- Quiet Ride
- Efficiency
That’s why I want a Volt!
+3
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:33 pm)Mr. Nysschen had the chance to clear the air on the earlier Volt report. He also had the opportunity to boast at how buying his brand of car is the efficient, clean, low cost way to go.
2009 Audi S5
MSRP $51,400
Standard Engine 4.2L V8
Standard Transmission 6 Speed Manual
Cylinders 8
Horsepower @RPM 354@6800
Fuel Economy Cty/Hwy 14 / 21
Combined Fuel Economy 16
EPA Class Sub-Compact
You’re right, most of us are not smart enough to buy the Audi.
=D~
+7
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:34 pm)Man can’t fly, otherwise he would have wings. WRONG.
There will only be about 5 computers needed in the world. WRONG
Sorry sir trollhimey, but you are wrong too. Don’t pee your depends. Get out into the real world and stop playing D&D for……5…..minutes.
Zel
And Remember GM:
Jacksonville Fl, 54 mile commute round trip, 110v 20a plug at work to recharge and designated parking spot. Just saying I will volunteer. Really.
Plugging for a Plug-In!
+11
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:37 pm)This is as technically-dishonest as I have ever seen for someone in his position.
The grid can handle 158 million 40 mile AER plug ins for overnight charging without overloading.
Not one statement this man has made is relevant today.
He is panic-stricken regarding how many other OEM’s are leaving his diesels in the dust. GM fastest of all.
He just made his companies’ position that much more worse.
Time for the rest of us to move along to learn more about E-REV, as he and others like him apparently are unable to compete with the new technologies finalizing.
I suppose he would not want to discuss carcinogenic diesel microparticulates that the lungs can not expel.
No-one should be surprised that these sorts of things happen (and will continue to happen) as the
“environment selects”
those things to survive which are the most efficient in the use of it.
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:42 pm)AUDI makes a hell of a nice car. Too bad the management is far less refined than their vehicles.
+6
Sep 3rd, 2009 (9:48 pm)Quitting or fired?? My guess is the later. Are you so dumb as to come on to a Volt enthusiast site and try to claim that the battery in the Volt is the one that Dr. Cui is working on at Stanford? If you’re going to come here and bash the Volt, at least get your facts correct and then put together a credible argument. After that I would suggest taking night classes in the English language, because it will give your arguments more credence and will help you get a new job.
+7
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:02 pm)Good point about him next to the Audi R8. Who would pay $120,000 for a car that can be bested or at least have to fight hard to beat a $75,000 Chevy Z06 Corvette at the track? Oh, that’s right, an idiot!
-19
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:02 pm)(click to show comment)
+3
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:05 pm)But not at night when capacities are utilized the very least, from 11 pm to 6 am, the designed charging hours.
-8
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:06 pm)This is pretty funny…
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/the-chevy-volt-mileage-numerology/
“Numerology.” So true.
+1
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:12 pm)How does crow taste Mr. Nyssenkskd;dkasdkf;dennn or whaterever your wierd name is….its Audi, who cares what he thinks anyway…..
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:16 pm)“Clean coal?”
There’s no such thing. There’s plenty of ideas about how we might get a clean coal tech but it’s not happening today. And, if it does work, Chu has speculated it might require half the output of a coal electric plant to accomplish it. Hardly a winning technology.
+1
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:17 pm)I find a post about US energy policy that doesn’t even mention natural gas as a source of electricity… unconvincing.
+1
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:29 pm)I’m going to take a different spin on the price of the Volt…
During this recession, the government’s printed 150% of the currency that was previously in circulation, i.e. we increased the supply of our money by a factor of 1.5
So, assuming this recession eventually goes away (and ignoring many other factors), there could easily be inflation in prices that would cause all commodities to over double in cost.
If the Volt is still 40k at that point, the price will look pretty attractive.
+1
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:38 pm)…and costs more than a Tesla Roadster but EVs will be part of the solution someday
He can wait for that day but I won’t.
NPNS!
+3
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:41 pm)Strained grid? I guess we can all expect Audi’s EV to be well supported by executive management. Can you feel his contempt? I would like to re-post what I said yesterday (still applies):
Does that make me an intellectually elite idiot? IEI
Lyle, perhaps we need some T-shirts printed… In war paint.
So, that genius wants us to stay hooked on diesel and all the infrastructure upgrades that go with it (have to build more if all the cars run diesel). He doesn’t remember last summer when the price of diesel in his own country was shooting past the roof? His logic and reasoning is so clear who needs to call him a name? What a Douche Bag (sorry, couldn’t resist).
I might be tempted to boycott Audi but they have never made my list of cars to consider.
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:42 pm)I’m a Battery Expert and so am I.
/That one’s for you, Tag
NPNS!
+1
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:45 pm)How about reason’s why we’re Volt savants?
-2
Sep 3rd, 2009 (10:50 pm)“Mr. Nyssenkskd;dkasdkf;dennn or whaterever your wierd name is….”
Hahahahahahah. Nice!
-2
Sep 3rd, 2009 (11:18 pm)15.
Guy Incognito Says:
September 3rd, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Audi President Johan de Nysschen = Idiot
_-=
-2
Sep 3rd, 2009 (11:45 pm)That Audi president Johan’s favorite smell diesel oil company make money! Why He don’t like EV cars.
-2
Sep 3rd, 2009 (11:49 pm)He kill Electric car I am sure! better watch out him!
Sep 3rd, 2009 (11:51 pm)All valid reasons, but unfortunatly price is the number on factor. If you can’t afford something you can’t buy it no matter how good the reasons. And the Volt is out of the range of 95% of the public (including me).
Sep 3rd, 2009 (11:56 pm)Who cares what this guy thinks? Does everyone have to like every car? This is not news.
People take this stuff way to seriously. It’s not like he insulted your kid or something. If you want a Volt, buy one. If you want an Audi, buy one. What some guy says shouldn’t matter either way.
+3
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:17 am)Even trying to spin his way out of his earlier comments, he screwed up badly.
I wonder how long it will be before he checks himself into rehab?
And then some silly confession of how he accidentally took the wrong medications for his cold, which caused him to say all those crazy things he never meant to say……….
If he then goes on Oprah and cries real tears, all should be forgiven, don’t you think?
If you can’t tell, I really hate it when they try to spin their way out of stupid comments…………
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:44 am)—
During this recession, the government’s printed 150% of the currency that was previously in circulation, i.e. we increased the supply of our money by a factor of 1.5
—
Can you give me a link to substantiate that claim ?
+4
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:50 am)Yep.
BTW, what are his plans for tackling global warming and peak oil ?
What an idiot.
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:52 am)I rode in one recently… so mediocre, I don’t understand why it’s called a luxury car except for the price. It was only an A4 but still, I was utterly underwhelmed.
+3
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:42 am)Michael,
The tric is that ‘green hydrogen’ will consume twice of coal than ‘green electricity’,
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:51 am)Supprisingly week statment. Every sentence smels. Who pays salary for him?
On my opinion Audi branch would be natural EREV developer for Vokswagen. I would understand VW talking about diesel and argue economics. But Audi is different story.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (5:09 am)Another Coroprate looser sponsered by EXXON,
Oh I get it …Audi doesn’t have anything viable with EV’s as he clearly has his head up his waaaa hooosi to counter act the many positives of the VOLT type of plug in vehicles.
Have you noticed how most Audi drivers usually drive with one hand on there crotch?
Johan must be an expert Audi driver as – look ma no hands as he’s got both down there!
Go GM Go Volt – bring it on!
+4
Sep 4th, 2009 (5:26 am)To right. this site seems to accept credible criticism, but is happy to defend against pointless argument. “GM to Prosper” has not presented anything credible. One battery type which has not progressed does not represent the worlds multitude of battery technology being created. There is absolutely no reason to think the PHEV as a concept is flawed due Dr Cui’s work, or your unsubstantiated slurs against same.
Quite simply the Volt has been demonstrated in public many a time, with 100% success. The only thing we have not experienced is the generator coming on, but this is a mere formality as we already know the engine chosen works fine.
Sure GM will be bagged if the car does not work, but till now, they have clearly demonstrated that is does. Just from what i have seen, i will be one of the first people in OZ to buy one.
+5
Sep 4th, 2009 (6:08 am)His statement that hydrogen and electric vehicles create more greenhouse gases than internal combustion engines, which are only 30% efficient is just foolish.
+3
Sep 4th, 2009 (6:29 am)This is my first post on this website, so please don’t slam me as I am about to give what I believe is a very honest opinion on this subject.
First of all I believe most of what this guy says is nonsense, however some may be valid.
Although I don’t consider the Volt to be similar to the Corolla, I do believe it is more like an extended range Malibu. Don’t get me wrong, the Malibu is a nice car. Johan de Nysschen says the Volt is too expensive. He may have a point there. I believe the average American will look at the price of a Malibu ($20,000) and Volt ($32,500 after rebate) and say to himself “Gee, I can buy a lot of gas for $12,500,” and buy the Malibu (or some other similar car). After the first round of Volt buying by greenies and technogeeks, I don’t think the Volt will sell until the cost gets down to the $25,000 range, which will probably be version 3 or 4, a good 7-10 years from now. I wonder if GM will be that patient, because they will be showing losses on the Volt for quite a while.
+3
Sep 4th, 2009 (6:33 am)Why is it when gasoline people talk about electric vehicles they talk about well to wheel energy for the electricity and polution, but when they talk about gasoline it is the polution out the tail pipe??? What about the energy and polution to get the crude out of the ground? the energy used to ship it across the ocean? the polution of the tanker ships leaking oil and worse the wreck of the tanker and the clean up that follows that we all pay for. What about the energy it takes to distill that crude to gasoline? then it has to be transported distribution points. More energy and polution there??? Then it has to pe transported again to the station down the road where we fill our tanks in the car. What about the polution of their tanks leaking and the energy it takes to get it out of their tanks and put it in our car??? where is all that figured in when the gasoline people talk about how inefficient electric is?????
Sep 4th, 2009 (6:49 am)I’m kind of banking on what you say being true so I stand a chance of being able to get a Volt. I can afford it and I really want one bad.
Sep 4th, 2009 (6:54 am)I just read the article. Seemed factual not funny. Perhaps the part about going to the EPA who referred them to GM who referred back to the EPA is humorous.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:08 am)“Clean coal?”
“There’s no such thing.”
Coming soon, however.
-13
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:14 am)(click to show comment)
+4
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:14 am)I didn’t know you could “back pedal” in an Audi R8… Wow…
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:20 am)Excellent response Dan!
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:23 am)What’s funny about it? Make your point.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:25 am)Although diesels may have better efficiency than gasoline engines (HCCI excluded), they still don’t change one basic parameter, and that is the world’s transportation system is 96% dependent upon petroleum. How does diesel change that value?
The presentation at this link verifys the 96% dependence.
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2008/02/driving_the_vol.html
This is where the Volt becomes significant, because it diversifies the energy mix.
Unfortunately, what you really need to do is read the underlying statement here. “I work for Audi. Audi makes the LeMans racing cars with diesel engines has invested countless millions of dollars to develop diesel engines. We want to recoup our investment, so therefore, please buy cars with diesel engines. Everything else is just rubbish that will only be bought by idiots.”
+9
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:27 am)By calling people “idiots” the man has resorted to ad hominem attacks – a sure sign he doesn’t have a leg to stand on with his arguments.
+5
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:28 am)The EPA ought to examine
carcinogenic diesel microparticulates which the lungs can not expel, and, ban the import of such vehicles where EPA finds problem potentials for not only owners of such vehicles, but, OSHA also ought to examine
carcinogenic diesel microparticulates as a job hazard to technicians who must potentially work on such hazardous engines in more confined places when doing
1. Annual emissions inspection, occupational overexposure.
2. Routine maintenance, (that old motor oil is most carcinogenic of all, WITH JUST A DROP GETTING ON YOU). And, having to run it in a service bay for any other minor reason to check servicing and repairs.
3. Hazards to children and infants who must be strapped into safety seats while the parent must begin to cool down the dangerous 140-degree-hot-summer-interior by running such a dangerous engine design, and, the wind wafts/carries these carcinogenic diesel microparticulates back to the baby as well as others in the car.
4. For too long, these carcinogenic diesel microparticulates have been improperly-exempt to the emissions schedule for autos in the form of grams per mile (because while weighing less, they are in an entirely new DANGER CLASS). That old standard is dangerously neglectful of the reality, and must be immediately updated to ban the import of such dangerous engines once findings are confirmed.
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:46 am)Here are historical data and actual data about the amount of US money currently (and physically) out there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply#United_States
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/h6.htm
It’s nowhere near the 150% increase that he talked about.
It’s more like 17 percent, High but not unprecedented.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:47 am)“the industry to be able to ramp up to less expensive future generations.”
I guess I have heard so much that the Volt’s price of 2nd or 3rd gen Volts will be lower than the first production models. I really question that. Look at the Prius. It’s price started at $19,995 back when you could order it online in 2000. I have owned 2 of them. Today after nearly a decade the price of a Prius has never been less than the original and we are on the 3rd gen. Maybe there is still time for its price to come down but I do not think the Prius’ price ever will.
That said, the Volt may gain better batteries with longer EV range and other extras over time but I doubt the Volt will ever be lower than whatever its target price will be in a few years. I still want one and I am saving my pennies. I can see the cost of the Volt may remain the same over time but to drop in price. I doubt it. Just had to share this.
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:50 am)and to think…just a short time ago you were overheard saying ” last yeer eye cood know spel enjinear…and now I art won..”
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:50 am)so is christmas and Santa claus
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:54 am)CorvetteGuy,
Great Observation and you said it perfectly…
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:56 am)koz,
Both of me agree with you. We ought to get together and from a therapy group.(g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:58 am)koz,
Far to many to enumerate. “To infinity and beyond!!”
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:02 am)Actually, I got my information from CNN.com from the article below. References are shown at the bottom of the table.
I was off slightly in my original post, as I was recalling from memory… It looks like the actual number is 125% (From September 2008 to May 2009). That’s compared with 17% printed during the Great Depression.
CNN article citing 125% with reference: http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/recession_depression/
And here’s another link about the fed planning to add a lot more money, though note that I haven’t validated this one. The CNN info is right from testimony on their monetary policy so I tend to trust that more over what the fed is ‘planning’ to do:
http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/03/fed-is-planning-15-fold-increase-in-us.html
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:03 am)Wolf doctor..
Not to slam you, but basing it on a return on investment (ROI) NO can mkes sense..you can buy a LOT of bus passes for $10,000.. Take a train or greyhound for intercity,and mass transit when you get there..you are still ahead NEVER buying a car.
if you use that logic comparing a Volt to a Amlibu..why buy an Audi vs a volkwagon? A lexus vs Toyota? you can get a similar car for less ALWAYS..
why spend 30k on a Prius, when you can get a yaris?
It is a really rendundant aurgument.
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:04 am)Mee to..the A8 is over rated, but the all wheel aspect is nice
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:04 am)dagwood55,
If he’s being misquoted it’s by still being reported by a lot of different sources. His unapologetic reply has done nothing to unring the bell, nor has he “saved face”. If anything, it’s great publicity for the Volt.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:07 am)Steve,
With that logic, no one should post here. We are all just “one man” (or woman).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-2
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:09 am)Jim I,
Yeah it shows (lol). He should skip Oprah and go right to Bill O’Reiley (or N. Riley). (g)
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:10 am)Reading between the lines…
It’s not that I think they are idiots, its just that they are not as smart or informed as audi drivers.
-2
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:11 am)Martin,
Even tougher to drive while covering his Arse with both hands.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:13 am)Jason,
Maybe we should point to something he said that’s NOT foolish. Er, wait, there isn’t anything. Humph, please ignore this post (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:14 am)This statement can only show how all other car companies (Toyota firs with their battery comments, Honda then with the same comments, Chrysler with their one only electric car comapny comments, Ford lately on the Chevy Volt range…, now Audi with their idiot comments) are looosing their sleep because of the Chevy Volt.
In my view, this represents one more reason why GM has to get even more serious about this car. GM has to do whatever it will take them to confront these ‘Idiots’ by making the Chevy Volt a very very useful and successful car.
Here is my slogan in response to Audi North America President comments: ‘I’m not as idoit as Audi North America President is, this is why I am buying a Chevy Volt ‘.
Go Volt Go!
Go GM GO!
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:14 am)I will never paint Mr. de Nysschen’s garage.
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:16 am)Wolfdoctor,
Welcome! Nicely worded, well reasoned replies are (almost) always received well here.
+1
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:19 am)Paul,
Love the statement. I think he “popped a hammy” backing up.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:34 am)I hear you. I usually buy used vehicles 3-5 years old around the $10K price point. As emotional as I am about the Volt, I don’t think I can justify it to myself (and especially not to my wife) for a while. The 2010 Prius may be an option for me in 2013. The 2015 Volt may be an option for me in 2020. In the meantime, I will continue to leer and dream and do my best to talk the Volt up to all the rich people I know and other “idiots” so that it becomes successful enough for it to be there for me later.
+3
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:37 am)______________________________________________________
Quicksand:
Mr. de Nysschen’s remarks reminds me of one of those old black-n-white movie scenes where a guy on safari steps into jungle quicksand and in a panic sinks further the harder he flails.
I look forward (and trust Lyle will provide it to us for our reading amusement) Mr. de Nysschen’s upcoming qualifying statement of his qualifying statement.
It is true that Audi has a very small market share. It is also true that Audi makes good cars and they have a very loyal customer base. Audi has an opportunity to widen its market share by joining the Electric Car Revolution…but that would require a more informed and more visionary top management.
______________________________________________________
+5
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:38 am)They never made my list of cars either.
I do like the way they look though.
The car above is beautiful by itself.
But standing next to the idiot, it looks even better.
But for $120K, I could buy 3 Volts. If I had the choice, I would take the three. It is about so much more than Johan de Nysschen mentioned.
For people who want to put down the Volt, don’t they get it?
Don’t they get that this is not just about GM and their competition?
Don’t they understand this is about the pollution, ending terrorism, energy independence, etc. ?
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:39 am)Wolf I agree with you, at face value, why spend hard earned money on a nice car.
Why buy an Escalade when the Suzuki XL-7 will put 1000′s in the bank account? Why buy a Prius when a Hyundai Accent allows us to pocket all that gas money?
But big numbers of people continue to buy Escalade and Prius.
Will it be the same for the Volt over the variety of 30mpg cars? Do people wish to drive past gas stations rather than filling up? Do car owners want quiet, instant torque electric drive?
Look at the 2001-2009 PT Cruiser. Nothing special really. A small vehicle assembled in Mexico having a 150hp 2.4L gasoline engine, 26 (Est) mpg Hwy, 21 (Est) mpg City. This vehicle is a good seller and voted Motor Trend Car of the Year in 2001.
Recall ID # 09E012000 – EXTERIOR LIGHTING
Recall ID # 07V149000 – VISIBILITY:GLASS, SIDE/REAR
Recall ID # 04V481000 – SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:ANTILOCK
Recall ID # 08E033000 – SUSPENSION
Recall ID # 04V268000 – STEERING:HYDRAULIC POWER
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass/Midsize_Cars2008.shtml
=D~
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:39 am)funny.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:46 am)Totally off topic..
CApt Jack..is this you??
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/09/electro-camino/
+5
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:51 am)“Mass electrification” of the vehicles on American roads could lead to problems like a strained electric grid. Large-scale utilization of electric vehicles will require massive investment in new power stations that are much cleaner than the ones in use in the U.S. today. Otherwise, it could merely shift greenhouse gas emissions from the tailpipes of cars to the smokestacks of coal-burning utilities.
ABSOLUTELY FALSE!!!
I work in the power industry, and FGD (Flue Gas Desulphurization) systems we install removes between 95% and 98% of all SO2 emissions.
Coal is not “dirty”, nor is it “evil”, as some suggest. 55% of our electrical generation is derived from coal-fired plants, with another 20% coming from nuclear. Our electric grid can easily handle an additional 25 MILLION EVs without any modifications to the grid or addition of new generation.
Not that we won’t eventually need it, but it’s certainly not an immediate need.
So, I ask you. Which is easier to control – emissions from an estimated 135 MILLION vehicles or from centrally-located electrical generation plants in each state (numering perhaps 400 to 500 total nationwide)?
Mr. de Nysschen is spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt). I said it in a previous post.
Many automakers have been caught with their pants down, and aren’t prepared to offer a serious competitor to the Volt (or any EV). They have a vested interest to NOT develop EVs.
They’re running scared, as evidenced by Mr. de Nysschen’s comments, won’t have an offering for at least another 3 to 5 years – plenty of time for their competitor’s to gain significant market share.
History is repeating itself, as we watched the introduction of the (non-Plug-in) hybrids almost 10 years ago here in the U.S., while U.S. automakers didn’t have response to foreign competition.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:58 am)WolfDoctor;
When you follow postings here long enough, you will find that the ‘Price’ of the new VOLT is a big issue for many. $40,000 is not an unusual price for a car (or truck) these days, but it is a price point higher than what most people [who are affected the most by the huge recession] are willing to pay right now.
So, when you compare the VOLT vs. Corolla, of course the VOLT is at a disadvantage. But the VOLT is nothing like a Corolla, not even in physical size (as far as I can tell since I have not seen a photo of a VOLT parked next to another car in its class unless it was done in photoshop, and that can’t be trusted).
Based on all reports so far, the VOLT is better compared to a smaller luxury car from say, Lexus, BMW or Mercedes. Now, before you laugh, let me point out that I do not expect the VOLT to beat one of those in an all out drag race, but it might. I feel that the level of quality as far as “fit, finish, ergonomics, and gizmos” that the VOLT will be more luxurious than you may currently believe, and would easily sway a potential luxury car buyer.
I’m not finalizing my buying decision until I read the reviews of the final production VOLT in Road&Track and Car&Driver. I recommend you do the same.
It’s not over until the fat German lady sings. (Unknown if she will be related to the clown above from Audi.)
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:06 am)The new (expensive) Camaro is unavailable in the Santa Barbara / Ventura area. With a few available in Los Angeles (with a short delivery lag). Who would have thought?
=D~
-14
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:12 am)(click to show comment)
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:13 am)This statement can only show how idiot Audi North America President is.
All other car companies have criticised GM and the Volt.Toyota first with their battery comments, Honda then with the same comments, Chrysler with their one only electric car comapny comments, Ford lately on the Chevy Volt range.
But no one has gone so far by insulting people and attacking their freedom because they have chosen and plan to buy a car that he doesn’t like.
Here is my response to you, Audi North America President comments: ‘I’m not as idoit as Audi North America President is, this is why I plan and or I am buying a Chevy Volt ‘.
Go Volt Go!
Go GM GO!
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:13 am)One of the huge advantages of having a battery range of 40 miles is being able to have a smaller battery, which of course leads to a lower cost. Unless Mr. de Nysschen and Audi have developed a new battery technology, the Volt will be the most financially viable electric vehicle available for a long time.
-9
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:14 am)The only time that Audi driver will ever see a Volt is in its Rear View Mirror. Ha Ha. Voltard envy has been unleashed.
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:25 am)Hard to argue with that BCC. I also might add that Wisconsin has recently announced three new electric generation facilities that will run on Bio-Mass. A major portion of what will be used (in at least one facility in Wausau) is wood waste products from a nearby paper industry facility. We’ve also got a methane project (which will likely be funded in part with stimulus dollars) outside of Madison that will generate electricity while eliminate cow waste. Yeah, that’s right, putting b.s. to good use.
My point is not that such things can completely displace traditional sources of energy entirely. My point is that there are opportunities to reduce our energy problem while eliminating what are in essence garbage disposal (wood waste) or pollution problems (animal waste, especially from larger factory farm operations).
These things are win-wins. They are economically sustainable. They will create more local jobs than mining coal (there are only about 12,000 coal mine workers left in West Virginia – strip mining has eliminated a lot of the human element). And they will reduce pollution problems instead of adding to them.
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:26 am)Now you’ve done it, NB. I sure hope you’re wealthy enough to go around using big concepts like paraphrasing. Otherwise, the Snooty Police™ will be knocking on your door.
+9
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:29 am)Scooter
Don’t forget the Volts passing the Audi as it is being filled AGAIN with diesel and while it is at dealers in the service dept.
-11
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:32 am)(click to show comment)
-9
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:34 am)Right on bro. This is a smart man. Wannabe Volt owners only listen to what they want to hear. They never let the facts get in their way.
-9
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:36 am)The EPA and GM are kissin’ cousins. Two of the most mismanaged organizations the world has ever seen. Incompetent Government Brothers in bed and doing the nasty.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:37 am)There’s an SS V8 in the showroom here.
I’ll match the fit and finish quality of that one against any Audi.
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:38 am)Jaime
As all electronics have been for me when they FIRST were put in the market place.
This car will be expensive when it first hits the market but will quickly be priced for the masses. Very few things lend themselves to automation as well as electronics.
Remove the electronics as a major cost factor and your left with the electric motor, which also lends itself to automation during manufacturing and assembly. Now try to compare that electric motor cost to manufacturing and assembling a transmission.
THE VOLT AND VOLTEC ARE WINNERS
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:41 am)And I see you’re more than willing to pay twice as much for that Audi while the Vette outruns you. I’m not saying the Vette is a better built car because it’s not, but it is also near half the price for a car that will outperform that Audi.
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:45 am)Van.
Definitely looking forward to that Prius plugin comparison! I hope Lyle gets one to drive for an article.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:46 am)The one I get a kick about is “Clean” fossil anything is such a lie.
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:47 am)I work in Hydropower (Wow really clean!). We see no problem supplying electric cars in the future. If you are really worried about the grid then charge at night, we actually shut down generators then because of the low loads.
This Sticker is both dangerous and inconvient, but I do love fig newtons!
-15
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:52 am)(click to show comment)
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:52 am)I can answer that for you. His plan is to have his own pockets well lined before petrofuels start costing upwards of $10-20 a gallon. Got moolah? No problem, you can afford to own and drive your own car. The working class can go pound sand and ride the bus.
Executing his plan may be a bit tough, though. What, with Audi’s market-share and sales being what they are.
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:53 am)I find the “economic arguement” maddening! Are you kidding me? Let me explain. If the Volt, starting on Nov 1 2010, made immediate financial sense, then it would absolutely mean the end of every other vehicle technology for the mass market. That is one heck of a high bar to expect new technology to leap over. Now I could see that in 10 years or so that every vehicle would be electrified in one manner or another, whether it be hybrid, pure EV or EREV. But today not even is every vehicle a mild hybrid because even that doesn’t pay off immediately.
To put it another way let me ask this question. If the Volt was priced such that comparing its purchase price and operating expenses, assuming $2.50/gal gas, over a 3 year period was equal to other comparable vehicles which would you buy? If that was a true statement (it might be if gas was $15/gallon!) then the comparable vehicles would be obsolete! Who would buy them? No one.
The Volt is a very attractive vehicle for a host of reasons but don’t expect your accountant to give his approval for quite some time. It will be 2nd or even 3rd generation before it makes immediate economic sense to go with a car such as the Volt. By that time the market will be flooded with variations because then it will be the winning technology. And when it happens everyone will have the purchasers of the first gens to thank – although I advise against holding your breath waiting for said gratitudes!
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:53 am)Yeah Tag, as Lyle pointed out there was no apology in his retort to the controversial interview. He conveniently seems to have forgotten the comments involving the word “idiots” but doesn’t flat out deny them or the comment about people buying electric cars to show off their enlightenment. He’s still a tool in my book.
Big picture though, much like Lutz’s personal feelings towards global warming, Johann’s statements are virtually irrelevant if his Company pursues EV’s of some form as they alluded too in their website. If Audi brings a viable EV product of some sort, I think that is wonderful. Does that mean I think we should give Johann a pass? Absolutely not. But the burden is still on GM to prove him wrong. I hope they can do it.
-4
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:54 am)Not compared to a Nissan LEAF which has more than twice the range of a Volt at half the price
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:57 am)Tag:
LOL! Thanks.
-7
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:57 am)Only an idiot would even respond to this guy.
Oops.
What does that make you ?
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:58 am)Were you replying to me or another person? Regardless, I agree with you. I also work in power generation, and see no problem with the introduction of EVs.
Presently, coal-fired and nuclear plants also can’t throttle back sufficiently at night to match dropoff in load. So, the turbine-gen sets spin whether there’s load or not.
EVs will allow utilities to smoothout those peaks and troughs (i.e., make better use of their fuel).
On a different topic, I didn’t understand your last comment: “Sticker is both dangerous and inconvient…”???
+3
Sep 4th, 2009 (9:59 am)Keep those early adopter examples coming! We can all use the reminder.
For my part, I submit the Personal Computer. Yes, it’s low-hanging fruit, but still a relevant example. My first was a TRS-80 Model III that my middle-class parents paid $2,500, a ton of cash for them in 1984. My latest cost me about $350 in commoditized parts to build. Measured by MIPS, that’s a [estimated] 5,000x increase in performance, for less than 1/7th of the cost, after about 25 years went by. Not too shabby.
Also we bought one of the least costly GE microwave ovens during that period, too… cost: $600+. Those damn things are cheaper now than a toaster was back then… and that’s in nominal dollars!! Never mind when you adjust for inflation.
Volt’s price will come DOWN. GM has committed to that idea, and the market will keep them honest. This guy misses the point completely.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:01 am)Chill out everybody. Give the guy a break. He was just having a bad day. It happens to everyone. Just sit back an relax. Cool your jets and have a cold one. Life is good. Enjoy. It’s good to be you.
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:02 am)Schmeltz,
In a very left-handed way, GM is in the “enviable” position of not only CAN they get the Volt right, they MUST get it right.
They’ll do good.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:04 am)Which makes me think the Leaf is not in the same ballpark as the Volt. You know how expensive any battery is, so where do you think the Leaf is cutting corners?
+6
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:05 am)That’s compared with 17% printed during the Great Depression.
Most economist would say the difference in the money supply figures is one reason why we had a Great Recession rather than a Great Depression. Seems very much what Milton Friedman would have suggested. Which don’t you like? More employment or fewer bank failures? Do you want a Depression? Do you want the price of the Volt to fall so badly that you’d be willing to lose a decade of economic growth?
The naivete here is overwhelming. Contrary to what you are saying, the Fed most certainly did not “print money”. It did do a whole bunch of things, one of which was to stabilize asset prices by buying assets and issuing credits. This is not, as you are suggesting, inherently inflationary, because the Fed can at any time reverse the process by selling the assets. While it is true, as the whackinut article you cite suggests, that this is somewhat limited by the value of the assets held, if you’ve noticed, the value of those financial assets have gone up substantially — by at least 50% — since the Fed bought them.
In this regard, if Fed policy was inflationary, this expected inflation would be reflected in rising interest rates for the 5, 10, and 30 year government bonds. Have you bothered to look at these? Take a gander at the 10 year note. It shows LOWER inflation expectations than during most times over the last 30 years.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^TNX#chart1:symbol=^tnx;range=my;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
Bernanke may have been late recognizing that the real estate and financial bubbles, perhaps blinded by his belief in the myth of “efficient markets”, but he did a heck of a job making sure we avoided a Depression. We should be thankful not critical.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:05 am)Actually from all I’ve read, the Volt WILL BE very much like a Malibu with extended range, not a luxury car. If it in fact turns out to be luxurious, then obviously my comparison of the Malibu and Volt is not valid.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:11 am)Accounting for inflation though if the price has remaind steady in dollars than the “price” has actually come down. Accounting for inflation what would have cost you $100 in the year 2000 would now cost you:
$125.03 using the Consumer Price Index
$122.38 using the GDP deflator
$134.05 using the value of consumer bundle
$125.84 using the unskilled wage
$134.58 using the nominal GDP per capita
$145.12 using the relative share of GDP
Using the consumer price index of 25% that $20000 Prius would cost $25000 today with no increases in cost other than accounting for inflation.
One has to be really careful as a car manufacturer when being asked for the pricing of future products. Because multiple years of inflation are involved the price you quote today could be way off by the time the vehicle hits the market. A good example of this is the Delorean. Remember this vehicle from the early 80′s? Remember the inflation of the late 70′s, early 80′s! Anyway the Delorean was originally called the DMC-12 where the “12″ stood for $12,000 which was supposed to be the selling price when the cars were first prototyped in the late 70′s but by the time they hit production in 1981 the price was double that to about $25,000!
Now one can understand why they have been so cautious about stating any kind of a price for the Volt until they are closer to retail sales.
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:11 am)Actually, I was comparing the Volt with the Malibu, not the Corolla.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:14 am)Todd:
Amen.
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:15 am)Who’s going to pay for the electricity you tap into at work? Other taxpayers?
This issue better be worked out before going whole-hog on putting charging stations in every parking garage in America. Just sayin’.
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:17 am)Mitch:
LOL, I’ve heard that all my life. I guess it explains all the typos in my comments, hahaha.
I’m sure my RN wife would second the motion. she claims she can spot ‘em a mile away.
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:17 am)Following up on your diesel champion comments, as I’ve mentioned before, what is somewhat comical is how blind he is to the realities of the situation. He’s touting diesels on the one hand and criticizing a government subsidy for EVs on the other, but diesel is so popular in Europe primarily because the price of diesel is effectively subsidized (it’s taxed far less than gasoline). Likewise, he touts diesels and criticizes EVs for “well to wheel” pollution, but doesn’t seem to recognize that diesel technology is inherently very dirty and polluting. Finally, he touts diesels while criticizing the price of the Volt, but diesel technology which can meet clean air standards is so expensive that GM has decided not to bring diesels to the US. (The line is something like if you buy a diesel you have to buy a car and a chemical plant).
Not a good week for Audi, especially as a run up to the unveiling of their new EV. That should now prompt a lot of questions and giggles.
-11
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:19 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:19 am)Whoever designed the Audi front end on the car pictured should be fired.
Nobody in their right mind would drive an expensive European sports car with such a bulky ugly duckling front end. I could justify the ugliness if it were a new technology that got exceptional performance, outstanding mileage and the huge openings had a real functional purpose(s).
Maybe they are planning to hang a family picture on the grill?
Maybe the dark patches under the headlights are like football players trying to block the glare back to the eyes?
Maybe the extended front bumper sticking out 3 feet from the center wheels are for leverage or balance?
I cannot wait until the industry copycats get past this petrock design phase. Its so ugly Mitsubishi has a couple of models like this it definitely does not attract the eye to the car.
Maybe they are jet intakes like batman?
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:25 am)In general I agree with this. The exception is that the cost of the battery itself will HOPEFULLY decline in price as well as the cost of the warranty when GM finds the battery actually lasts as long as they believe. Thus the cost of the Volt will decline some in the future… I hope.
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:26 am)I agree with zip.
Nothing funny here. Just points to a new paradigm.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:32 am)The difference is in the economy.
Toyota could afford to take the loss on the early Prii while cost reducing the car into profitablity.
I’m sure if GM were to comment about it (they won’t of course) in hindsight they wish would have built a ‘Volt’ 10 years ago. In todays climate and GM’s finance position now, they have to recoup more of the initial cost of the car up front.
The Price of the Volt MUST get at the least into the high 20′s in the US to have a chance to become the ‘everyman’ car that it is meant to be. This will happen in Gen 2 or 3.
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:32 am)Who among us hasn’t seen a car driving down the road and though, what an idiot that guy must be for buying that. I probably think that about 50% of the cars I see. Car are nothing but personal preference so one mans treasure is another mans junkpile. Don’t flame a guy just for having a differing opinion for something you like…
I happen to think the Volt will be a great car. On the other hand, I salivate at the thought of an R8.
+3
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:35 am)Fake Statik ALERT.
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:35 am)LOL!
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:36 am)Sober up, and get a haircut and a real job, ya smelly hippie.
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:36 am)My biggest argument is with misinformation. And the illusion of being knowledgable. This is serious business, particularily for GM.
And being aware that other motives are in play here, particularily from another OEM.
He can certaintly have an opinion. But he has a big title and a big pulpit too.
With that, I would think, comes some level of responsibility.
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:37 am)The guy’s a twit. Who cares what he says? If we can’t see spin for what it is by now, we had better just give up.
I highly recommend Jaime Kitman’s column in the new (October) “Automobile” magazine. It is titled “Genetically Modified Government-Monitored GM Needs An Energy Policy”. The accompanying illustration is Bob Lutz with the RenCen in the background. A cartoon bubble floating above, connected to his head, says “same old”.
Very sobering and thought provoking.
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:40 am)Scooter;
Your ‘no name’ speaks volumes about your knowledge of cars.
I tell you what… You spend $120K on an R8, and I’ll spend $120K on a ZR-1…. Then let’s race for pink slips. Quarter mile. Best 2 out of 3 just to give you a fighting chance.
Put up, or shut up.
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:48 am)The Captain is a ford man… Ranger!
That project shows both the good AND the bad of electric conversions. The car seems to work really well, and I have always had a soft spot for the El Camino, BUT $30k to convert a near 30 year old car?
As cell prices drop over the next few years a project like this will start to make sense, but about a year from now for the price of a Hyundai Accect on top of this projects cost you can have a NEW car with electric drive.
That makes more sense to me.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:50 am)Mr. de Nysschen must not realize that people already pay a $15K premium for a car that competes with the Toyota Corolla, its called the A3. Those people are not idiots, they just want a car with different driving dynamics so they are willing to pay more. Is that any different from people willing to pay more for a Volt? De Nysschens comments typify a “holier than thou” attitude that permeates most of Western European culture. FYI Mr. de Nysschen, that just pisses American’s off – we’re far from humble, but you guys need to seriously get over yourselves. One thing I’m 100% sure of, we are sick and tired of giving our money to Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Russia and other jerk water countries who use it to discriminate against women, minorities, and non-state-sponsored religion. I believe the Volt is a small step in cutting our dependence on Foreign oil (Canada and Mexico excepted), and if it were available today, I would trade my 330i without thinking twice. So let’s go GM, get the lead out – this idiot wants a new set of wheels! Just a side note for those who have never driven a modestly tuned electric car – they go like a bat out of hell off the line and with a sport suspension they are as fun to drive as a BMW – I drove a friends Tesla – OMG! Now if I just had a $110K to spend on a car.
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:50 am)I don’t post a heck-of-a-lot, but I’ve kept to date with the posts for a long while. If you are the real statik, elaborate…statik is sarcastic but he makes logical conclusions fully backed with credible sources.
If you are just using the name ‘statik’ though you are a fraud, which I strongly believe is the case here, SHAME ON YOU. How DARE you take another person’s name and tarnish it! Just because you can remain anonymous, it doesn’t give you the right to pull the crappy prank. If you want to play troll, take another anonymous name and play.
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:51 am)Please go back under your bridge no-name
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:00 am)Seats five?!
That’s funny. I’m sure yours does if your 3 kids are in the back.
All of the whiny trolls keep complaining about the VOLT because they can’t afford one. Well, that’s just too damn bad. But guess what? There are PLENTY of people who CAN afford a VOLT and are looking forward to owning one.
I’m guessing you know a LOT about Corollas because you can’t afford the $32K Prius!!! Maybe when Toyota gets around to electrifying your welfare wagon “Corolla”, then we can compare apples to apples.
+8
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:02 am)First of alll, we had deflation during the great depression, not inflation. I agree with DonC that one of the major causes of the great depression was the contraction in money supply. (Yes, the Fed increased the money supply, but given the evaporation of value in terms of the stock market and the many bank failures, there was a major net decrease.)
Are we going to have hyperinflation? Who knows? The expanded fed balance sheet is a concern. And, as that article pointed out, so is the amount of dollars circulating in other countries. If China, for example, decided to dump it’s dollar reserves, we’d have major problems.
But it’s not that simple. China has a vested interest in the US dollar. First of all they have a lot of them. But, secondly, if the “china price” suddenly became more expensive than manufacturing in the US and Europe as the markets overcorrected, China’s economy would go into a major meltdown as manufacturers (foreign, and maybe even domestic at that point) raced out of the country. Also, China’s not really considered stable enough to become the world reserve currency. US economic data is still considered much more reliable than anything out of China.
Not only that, but we’ve also seen a major evaporation of value. All those CDOs increased the effective money supply. We’re experiencing a deleveraging of the US economy, and that effectively decreases the money supply. The US government is trying to slow the process down by increasing the amount of public debt to offset the decrease in the amount of private borrowing.
That said, the 10 year note is more about flight to perceived safety than lower inflation expectations. A lot of people are worried about inflation. That’s why all the interest in TIPS (Inflation protected treasuries.)
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN0524144920090805
Not only that, but oil is going to get more expensive since we’re running out of the easily accessable oil. And it takes time to find substitutes. That has an inflationary effect as well.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:09 am)Well, for starters, we’re not out of the recession yet. The Great Depression stats were over 3 years, let’s see what pans out during a similar timeframe.
Second, I would suggest that increasing our monetary supply may help us lessen the effects of a recession in the short term, but in the long term it’s going to cause working Americans a lot more pain whenever they purchase something. If you made 20k per year, and you had a credit card with a 20k limit, you could certainly buy 40k worth of stuff in one year, but that extra 20k you spent is going to burden you for years to come. Printing more money is going to have similar effects in the long run, even if it helps in the short term (and many respected economists have already questioned its benefit).
Why is it naive to suggest that, in the long run, increasing money supply by 125% will half the value of the dollar? Unless every other country in the word doubles their supply, our value will most certainly decrease following the recession. I would question your naivety on the subject matter as well. There’s many economists for and against all the government intervention and monetary policies that have been taking place the last year or so. If there’s so much contraversy among people who are experts in the field, why do you believe it’s such a one way answer?
In any case, apologies to all for getting so off topic, my original post was more for humor and making the Volt price look more attractive, not to dive into a monetary policy debate.
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:10 am)As a former Volkswagen owner (Audi is the Buick of Volkswagen), I suggest that they strive first to make the cars serviceable, then strive for Camry-like reliability. Then we can talk about increasing their marketshare at their friendly local dealership.
I’d love a Jetta Sportwagen TDI… But I’m probably rich enough to drive a Lexus if I wanted to, but I know I’m not rich enough to drive any Volkswagen/Audi product, especially after the warranty period expires.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:11 am)But it’s not about luxury for me. There are a lot of people willing to pay a substantial premium for fuel economy. It’s not just about saving money. Or how luxurious the car may or may not be.
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:14 am)Well said, Old Man.
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:15 am)Jay,
I don’t think it is in the “American gene” to support and use high speed rail. It would cost big, BIG $$$$. And you still need to get from the station to work. And we have mass transit already. At least were it is practical. If the need were bigger, we would have more. Supply and demand. Americans clearly do not like to be inconvenienced; just look at the Volt. An electric car with no compromises. THAT’s one of its important selling points.
Don’t forget, please, that this is a BIG country. We have a sprawling society, specifically UNCONTROLLED, BTW, and we need to get around in it. Most of the people in this country do not live in cities big enough to allow high speed rail to make any financial or technical sense. Can you imagine the cost of such a national system that would actually have an impact? It would have to be much more involved and complex than the interstate highway system. You still have to drive too and from the stations. Think about it this way; what would we do if we had to park our cars on the off ramp of the highway in the morning? How would any of us finish getting to work? Talk about raising taxes……..
We have what we have and we do not get a do over. We can only be creative and figure out ways to be more energy efficient and environmentally responsible given our playing field. And no one has THE answer to that.
As far as you stating we are in a “100% controlled society”. We have the freedom to build a house where we want as big as we want, work where we want to, buy what we want to, drive what we want to. As long as we can pay for it all. Period.
IF these rights start to change, then we REALLY DO have a problem….
And IMO, the corvette is the best sports car you can buy for the money. And best of all, its American.
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:16 am)I thought there was still a waiting list? Is that over?
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:16 am)CorvetteGuy,
Nah, he can’t do that. He only rides a scooter and dreams about the Audi.
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:20 am)The initial production of electric vehicles will be bought by people who will charge at night in their garage. Which is a nice match for the grid since these are off-peak times.
Long term electric vehicles will not contribute to CO2 or other pollution since they will be charged by nuclear power plants (spent fuel is not waste/pollution, it is the fuel for the next generation of reactors).
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:21 am)LauraM
Spot on, I think for most of us here, luxury is WAY down the list of priorities. In fact, I doubt it’s at the top of any of the “regular’s” list.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:30 am)Muddy
I agree and hope to heck that the battery life AND cost of the batteries themselves drop, so that the Volt sales can really soar.
Early adopters (and fanatics) will snatch up the early ones, then word-of-mouth and price will determine the acceptance of later Gens.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:31 am)Ummm, I didn’t know that Germans drank american cool-aid. Sounds like Big Oil, Big 3 and Bush all rolled into one. “…it could merely shift greenhouse gas emissions from the tailpipes of cars to the smokestacks of coal-burning utilities”
Not sure if you all recall but that was the exact stance of almost every anti-electrification advocate. Seems times have changed, the electric car is no longer the pet of the commune hippie and green urbanite…
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:33 am)Jim M
I know what you’re saying, but you misspelled idiot….
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:33 am)YOU SHOW HIM BIODEEEE!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+10
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:36 am)Please note this is the same “commentator” who is going under the name of Johnny Rotten and Steinberg Jones among others, as can be determined by their IP address. It is not Statik.
Although I can block comments coming from these commentators’ IP addresses (and there are several of them), and I’ve considered it, I have decided not to in the interest of free speech.
Our voting system is the way our community can point out that they lack meaningful content.
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:38 am)As much as I would love to believe that, I honestly can’t see Audi’s given demographic (rich people who want V8′s) being interested in switching to a Volt. A Corvette maybe. But not the Volt. Or even the Converj. The German companies have paid fines for not meeting cafe standards for years. They’re not in the fuel efficiency market. At least not in the US. He might wish he could be with his deisel engines, but that’s obviously not going to happen.
I could see Volkswagen (who owns Audi) being worried about the Ampera’s impact in Europe. But nothing’s settled with Opel. The major hitch in the Opel-Magna deal is that GM’s worried about Magna’s Russian partners getting their hands on GM’s technology. GM may be trying to keep them, but if they are, it’s unlikely to work.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125190211768579751.html
The Ampera is on schedule:
http://www.just-auto.com/article.aspx?id=100994
But given the many questions about Opel’s ownership, I think there’s a huge question mark about whether or not it will ever come to market.
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:39 am)Edgar,
Thanks for the post and that sticker statement “lost” me too.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:39 am)One other thought You said:
Bernanke may have been late recognizing that the real estate and financial bubbles, perhaps blinded by his belief in the myth of “efficient markets”, but he did a heck of a job making sure we avoided a Depression. We should be thankful not critical.
Take a look at actual unemployment numbers. Not the 9% or so that the government reports. That figure was revised with the Clinton administration, to separate out so called “underemployment” and other factors that used to be all lumped into one figure (and that were all one figure during the Great Depression and its statistics).
If you report the combined number that better reflects reality, you’re looking at an unemployment rate of almost 17%. Comare that with the 25% from the great depression. Perhaps we should be more critical.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/economy-watch/2009/09/actual_unemployment_rate_hits.html?hpid=topnews
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:44 am)Audi has always played second fiddle to Mercedes. They offer just a huge line … trying to match car-for-car their dominant uncle. One model, the Audi A4 accounts annually for half of all sales. Where Mercedes sells three times (or more) Audi’s annual volume. Moreover, not one model other than the A4 has sales exceeding 1000 per month. Its flagship R8 sells less than 100 per year. In short, Audi trying to compare itself to GM is like a flea walking up you-know-what. Johan’s problem is Audi’s line up constantly gets high marks- and can’t seem to generate sales no matter how aggressive the marking. Johan’s explanation to find the high road instead finds a slippery slope.
-2
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:47 am)All the quotations stem from a single source. If that source got it wrong, they’ll all misquote him.
Not that it matters, he’s mostly right on everything else.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:49 am)Like numerology, the Volt’s 230mpg claim is complete BS. The term “numerology” and the tortured calculations to give the Volt the 230mpg rating are a match made in comedy heaven.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:51 am)Tag
I was thinking more like go directly to Springer!
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:54 am)Tag
Luxury as a reason to buy my Volt had not even crossed my mind. But since it was brought up it did cross my mind.
Stayed there for a second or so.
-2
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:58 am)old man,
Good point. Weber is pretty wiry. They could go on together. Keep the Bouncers busy!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:59 am)old man,
If you’re getting anywhere like me, it’s tough to keep ANYTHING in mind very long (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
-4
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:08 pm)what a lemming you are
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:11 pm)Mike
You nailed this —-whatever it is. We may not agree with our friend Statik but we do know his views are well thought out and NEVER limited to 4 words.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:11 pm)Thankyou Lyle for the clarification.
In life we all have to deal with NitWits. gm-volt.com is no different.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:12 pm)I think the corolla has more room than the Audi super car above. Perhaps we should compare his Audi to the corolla.
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:13 pm)As much as the blowhard was an A$$ in his comments the A4 and Audi’s in general have been the darlings of the auto journalists for a long time.
The driver ergonomics in an Audi are second to none, having said that they tend to be quite heavy. I test drove an A4 a few years back with the 1.8t gas engine behind a manual trans (I don’t remember if it was 5 or 6 speeds) In the Golf GTI this engine is a gem, it gets excellent economy while ‘tooling about’ and will go like a bat when called upon, in the A4 it was woefully underpowered.
The car itself drove and handled like a dream though.
The newer 2.0t engine HAS addressed the power issue.
A modern small diesel in an A4 would be a very good match, the torque of the diesel could make up for the weight of the car.
+5
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:19 pm)Nice job, LauraM. Unlike other posters, you have a knack for debate without the bitter aftertaste of personal attacks.
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:23 pm)There are a lot of unknown’s without a doubt.
I think that your $25k selling price (at a profit) prediction will happen sooner than 7 years because frankly is HAS to!
I also think you are right about the trim and ‘feel’ of the Volt, it’ll be quite Malibu-like.
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:29 pm)Are we talking about printing 150% of the money in circulation (meaning we’d have $2.5 for every $1 we had yesterday), increasing the amount of money in circulation by 150% ($2.5 for every dollar we would have had today – greater, if these are actual bills and recirculation is accounted for) or printing enough money to increase the amount in circulation to 150% of what it was ($1.5 for every dollar we had yesterday)?
These are all three different numbers, and a 150% increase is a LOT different from having 150% of something.
+4
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:32 pm)Thanks for the clarification Lyle.
Our pet troll isn’t THAT hard to detect but it’s good to know you are aware of the situation.
Of course a little ‘troll’ icon added to their posts by the system could be fun…
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:38 pm)I have often enjoyed reading Laura’s inputs…and questions as well.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:43 pm)Right on the money.
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:50 pm)One major difference is that the Prius has aways sold out (except very lately, due to the recession), so Toyota has never had a reason to reduce the price.
When demand from early adopters is exhausted, and we start to see some Volt inventory build up, then the price will fall.
This is simple, universal corporate strategy to maximize profits.
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:53 pm)Decent article. Nothing funny there. Pretty much lays out the 230mpg debate clearly and shows that GM isn’t making exaggerations, nor are they claiming that this is the best figure for comparison or that everyone will get 230mpg. Nice plug for Lyle’s blog though. Truth is, I believe that Dagwood agrees with Mr. Nysschen and his assessment that people that buy a Volt are idiots.
That’s OK, it’s a big road and we can share it. You go ahead and get real world 50+ mpg in your Prius on your daily commute, and I’ll get my real world 999 mpg on my daily commute in my Volt. Idiots of the world unite!
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (12:58 pm)It’ll just be more EV fun for *ME* and no EV for you! Audi owners.
I feel sorry for you. No, seriously. (Okay, I take it back. I don’t really care about them).
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:05 pm)“About 20 gallons of gasoline and 7 gallons of diesel are produced from each barrel of crude oil. ”
source: http://genomicsgtl.energy.gov/biofuels/transportation.shtml#gallons
so if we all went to diesel, we would hit peak oil a LOT FASTER!!!! with that said, i love the VW TDI platforms.
i did more research, and i found that his “and” was meant to be an “or” in the above quote.
-2
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:05 pm)“attitude that permeates most of Western European culture.”
Not so. Most of the Europeans I’ve heard from or read about are tired of the oil companies jerking their collective economies around and are definitely pro EV and pro Volt/Ampere.
This guy’s attitude is that of the wasteful rich who are going to want to continue polluting the rest of us to death – until we stand together and pass legislation like Cap and Trade, and a flat tax to make them pay for their excesses.
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:09 pm)Interesting article. And I agree with him. If the government wants the domestic auto industry to succeed by building fuel efficient vehicles, we need a gasoline tax. Pronto. I prefer a straight gasoline tax to a price floor (that way the government would get more money than Opeq out of it), but I’ll take a price floor.
But if I were Obama (and/or a democrat in congress), I would want to wait one-to-two years. For one thing, IMHO it will be a lot easier sell politically if the economy’s on the road to recovery. But more importanly, that way GM will have a chance to get the Cruze and the Volt into production in North America. And Chrysler will have the chance to introduce their new Fiat-based models. And Ford will be producting Fiesta’s and other of their European models. So why not wait until the domestic auto industry shifts its line-up before slanting the deck towards more fuel efficient cars?
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:18 pm)I’d love to know what kind of credentials Mr. Johan de Nysschen had to have in order to have been hired as President of Audi. Maybe he’s just some “idiot” married to the owner’s daughter. Or he used all his lottery winnings to pay for the position.
NPNS!
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:20 pm)Hey Muddy, calm down. Mr Larsen was just stating that he feels the Volt will be the most economically viable electric car for a number of years. He didn’t say “forever.”
Look how many companies are copying the Volt; Fisker, Mercedes, etc., and are coming out with their version of EREV. I think GM is going to lead that segment for several years to come.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:36 pm)Most of us here have a mainly engineering perspective. We need posters like Laura (and statik) who can set us straight and keep us level over these less-familiar fiscal grounds.
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:37 pm)I was refering to the “Steinberg Jones” post above which is yet another personality for our resident troll.
Our friend Mr Larson was also responding to the troll.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:38 pm)Perhaps he should go back to Audi-Arabia.
Ba-dump bump.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:43 pm)It will take at least a decade for EV penetration to reach the point that off-peak charging will strain our existing grid.
The question is, do you actually believe that the grid’s engineering will stand still over that time?
I can only hope that we increase our nuclear capabilities; particularly some of the newer, cleaner designs being researched to replace current designs that haven’t changed significantly in 50 years.
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:44 pm)Agreed! Nice post without resorting to some personal attack or attempt to make yourself appear to be on some higher than mighty hill.
Very refreshing….ahhhhhh!
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:45 pm)If you incentive for a volt..try this:
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE5832AV20090904?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews
Basically a Saudi prince says “Face it, America, you’re an addict: Your hooked on our oil, and you’ll never leave us,”
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:46 pm)Your praise of Audi cars reminds me of an old joke, MRB:
“It can pass anything on the road … except a repair shop.”
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:51 pm)What would be a cool feature. An icon or avatar based on IP address.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (1:59 pm)The usual misinformation we get here is based on a comparison between the Prius and Volt. Usually, the Toyo fanbois use a $25K figure for the Prius, and $40K for the Volt.
First of all, $40,000 is not etched in stone. The actual sticker price has not been set. It is not likely to be below $35,000 but there could a surprise in store.
Secondly, you will seldom find a stripped-down, base-price Prius offered for sale at any Toyota dealer. You’ll be far more likely to find one tricked out with every ridiculous and unnecessary option you can name (and likely some you can’t), which puts (particularly the upcoming plug-in) car into the same general $30K – $40K neighborhood. This also for a car not sold as “luxury,” but “extreme economy.”
As a result, you can substitute “Prius” for “Volt” in whazizname’s diatribe and it works nearly as well. He’s comparing apples to oranges all the way down the line:
Electric vs Diesel
Economy vs Luxury
New Tech vs New Spin for Old Tech
Far Sighted vs Short Sighted
Probably a lot more.
MRB:
With respect, the Volt will be smaller yet heavier, which is sure to lead to a more stable yet nimble ride. While it’s not a sports car per se, there’s every reason to expect the electric drive train to deliver standout smoothness in it’s acceleration. Not really a fair comparison to the Malibu.
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:02 pm)I have heard those stories which are without much doubt true, but I know a few people with Audi’s of various flavors and they have been very dependable cars.
The VW reliability issues are VERY real though!
Guess it’s hit and miss.
Heck, I have an absolutely no question it’ll go reliable Land Rover!
(That HAS to be dumb luck, right?)
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:07 pm)RN?
My wife is too…yesterday she went to sign a petition and pulled a thermometer out of her pocket”
Oh damn!1 some a**holes got my pen!!”
bada boom…
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:12 pm)Nice idea.
Maybe anytime Lyle detects the same IP for a different name, a little Billy Goat Gruff video would play next to the post.
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:14 pm)Here’s a trick question for you Mr. Nysschen.
How many cars does Audi have still in the design phase and more than a year away from availability that have a waiting list of 49,756 people in all 50 states of the USA and 93 countries around the world?
I know this is not a real waiting list where people have put down deposits, but it is still evidence of an unprecedented level of demand for this new Volt technology from people who understand the real issues. Although everyone on the list may not buy one, you can bet everyone on the list would LOVE to have one!
Wake up and get on board or you will be left standing on the dock when this boat finally sails.
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:17 pm)So, Mr. Rotten; according to your own world view, you’re even more of an idiot for responding to another idiot. How does it feel to be a hyper-idiot?
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:21 pm)“Not compared to a Nissan LEAF which has more than twice the range of a Volt at half the price”
… batteries not included. Add them, and then compare the price. Uh oh, you can’t, the plan is to lease the battery pack.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:26 pm)If Obama does not screw this up with his “science based” regulation, then we do have a set of new reactors on the way thanks to the 2005 energy policy act.
http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactors/col.html
All of these are genrally in the belt from New York down the east coast and over to Texas.
Sorry CA, no nuclear for you.
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:26 pm)I knew it.
He’s into our voting system, too; he uses his many personnas to give positive votes for all of them. This often undoes our votes.
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:29 pm)This will happen faster in Europe, where fuel prices are already much higher. This is likely at the root of our Audi Arabian’s recent rant.
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:30 pm)Sounds to me like the Audio PR guys got on the first plane and then met up with him for “a little talk”
I wonder when the new model “Audi BCKPDL” will be coming out…
http://blog.lib.umn.edu/bgleason/pt/Backpedal.jpg
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:32 pm)I apologize if I came off stand-offish as well. Certainly was not my intent, but I agre that engineering perspectives and personalities tend to result in defensiveness (myself included).
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:33 pm)“what an idiot that guy must be for buying that.”
I often think that when I see a car stopped at a traffic light with those ridiculous chrome wheels that continue spinning.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:36 pm)I agree. I went to the Toyota site and “built” my Prius and found that for all the same luxury features reported here for the VOLT, if you put them all in the Prius, you get a $32,650.00 price tag.
For the difference in price, I’ll take a VOLT.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:38 pm)The “science based” government crack refers to Obama’s attempts to kill Yucca mountain even though the DOE has cleared it for safety and wants to submit their 1000 page application to the NRC for review so the place can open up.
Science says that Yucca should proceed. That is the DOE conclusion.
The Law says that the Govt must take the waste into a repository. Yucca was built to comply. The Nuclear plants are counting on this. IF the Gov’t does not, they will owe billions in fines to the utilities.
Obama is saying “no we won’t” This is based purely on his political views of the issue and not on the science which in this case the DOE has settled.
Harry Reid, a guy who is hell bent not to let Yucca go forward even though his state has already made millions on it, just had his previous science advisor (a man too inexperienced for the job) installed as the chairman of the nuclear regulatory commission. Yet another example of politics over science.
Our Govt. is runamok as usual…
PS, this all makes nuclear more expensive and helps those who don’t support it by saying that waste is an issue and the cost is too high.
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:39 pm)We’re still taking orders. I just had one guy that got turned down on financing, so we put it in the showroom. Good thing too, otherwise we would have nothing to show.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:42 pm)What is the price of an energy independent United States? … an unimagineable amount
What is the value of an energy independent United States? … beyond measure
You can’t finish a race that you never enter; you can’t build a building by sitting on your ass and you can’t start the Unites States on a path to energy independence without the electrification of the automobile.
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:49 pm)….aah, let him swim for it.
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:52 pm)I hope PLENTY means at least 10,000 actual buyers willing to part company with 40,000+ greenbacks. Prolly be a lot more buyers of the Chevy Cruze, since it has been shown repeatedly that a Volt will not recover price differential in its entire lifetime. The smart dollars will stay with the Cruze.
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:55 pm)You can get a new Prius for a lot less than $32K. Inflating prices to try justifying a Volt purchase make you look like a Government Motors donkey. Or is that a jackass in your neck of the backwoods.
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:55 pm)…and has been smoked by a similarly priced Corvette ZR1
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (2:59 pm)That foul odor emanating from your person is surely that of GM Sheep. Buddy Ro, people can smell you a mile away. Word. Tone down your hate for anything non-GM. You are disgusting to many of the viewers here.
-4
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:04 pm)The Volt and Energy Independence are Mutually Exclusive. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Get a grip and then get a clue.
You have been taken to school. (no charge).
- The Bus Driver
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:08 pm)I own an Audi TT convertible. It is beautiful to look at and turns heads just sitting still, but it is infuriating to figure out. I don’t want to have to go to a training course to learn how to add coolant, for example. Still, a new Audi TT convertible gets 30mpg and has a street price of $36k compared to a projected price of $40k for a Volt. Frankly, I wouldn’t buy either as a new vehicle. I’ll let you guys get the bugs out of the new design first.
I know everyone here is a Volt enthusiast, but the reality is that the Volt will be a niche car, just like the Audi TT convertible is a niche car, until the price gets down much lower.
Most couples have two cars. So if you’re going to buy an electric car, why not go all the way and buy a Leaf? The Leaf with it’s 100 mile range makes more sense than the Volt for these couples because the Leaf can be used daily and the ICE vehicle can be used when traveling more than 100 miles.
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:25 pm)That was a fair explanation of the situation except to question the coming hyper inflation. There were lots of party-line talking head economists who predicted there would be no hyper-inflation in the face of the massive early Carter era Fed monetary surges. They even dreamed up the same arguments and sophistries used today.
But just as you might fall upward off a tree limb, according to the Laws of Quantum Mechanics, the vast probability is that we will join Humpty Dumpty on a great fall to the ground; and are due a replay of late Carter era inflation, once again.
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:31 pm)I am not a Volt hater, but I will be buying a LEAF because it make more cents. I can use one of my other gas vehicles for longer trips no problem. EV is perfect as a second vehicle. GM wants it to be your primary vehicle and that is off-base at this time. Time will tell who made the better decision. My money is with Nissan.
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:32 pm)I still say that paying a $15,000 – 45,000 dollars premium for the ethereal marketing created image of German auto superiority, is the true idiocy.
Reality is just as you describe. Most German marques are relatively unreliable cars, and require very costly maintenance.
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:35 pm)Same old tired set of clap-trap excuses for inserting his foot in his mouth and getting called out about it. No apology given, but none expected.
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:35 pm)REALLY FUNNY!!!!
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:39 pm)LauraM,
I agree with your view of Audi’s demographic. I don’t see the Audi faithful abandoning their following, but at the same time they don’t represent the much broader consumer market.
The thrust of my comment was that many automakers simply “haven’t done their homework”, so to speak, when it comes to vehicle and supporting infrastructure development. So, they’ve been caught by surprise as it relates to consumer demand, and realize that while the Volt is a mass-market vehicle, there will be other automotive entities (already in the EV market) developing EVs in what was their exclusive vehicle niche (sporty, trendy, “racetrack performance” oriented).
GM, so far (from what I’ve read), has managed to coordinate their efforts on so many fronts – particularly with the SAE plug standard (across all automotive vendors) and cooperation with thirty-five (35) electrical utilities nationwide.
You don’t hear the same coming from Ford, Toyota, or Nissan, and if they have done (or will do) this, it’s more of a reactionary response to GM’s effort.
Don’t get me wrong. I absolutely support any automaker’s effort to coordinate with electrical utilities or apply governing standards if they are going to provide an EV. It’s just that GM has led the way this time.
I only hope that GM doesn’t drop the ball, and continues to inform and educate the public, and for God’s sake, I hope they stay away from that gimmicky MPGe nonsense. It’s not intuitive in the least.
Certanly , the Volt was (or is) targetted for mass market consumption. The Volt’s engineering team clearly intended to deliver a “jack of all trades, but master of none” automobile, and I think they’ve accomplished that goal.
This first-generation Volt will serve as an excellent baseline upon which to build performance, extend range, or add amenities.
I’m reminded of what Burt Rutan (private spaceflight pioneer) had to say after the first successful suborbital flight (on October 4, 2004) of SpaceShipOne from a conventional horizontal takeoff and landing at Mojave regional airport.
“You think this is cool?” Rutan asked, pointing to the freshly flown SpaceShipOne. “Wait ’til you see SpaceShipTwo … it is erotic.”
He also went on to add the following:
“IBM didn’t know in 1975 that they were going to build $700 dollar computers for people and that they were going to build them by the tens of thousands. But then came Apple, and they had to.”
That being the case, Rutan made another prediction:
“They are thinking SpaceShipOne [insert Chevy Volt] is a toy…Lockheed and Boeing [insert Ford, Nissan, Audi, Toyota, BMW, etc.] will be making very low-cost access to space hardware within 20 years [insert 10 years or less]. They just don’t know it yet…because they’re going to have to.”
This is only the beginning for the Volt and other EVs. Keep the faith, and HOLD FAST.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:42 pm)That is one very smart member of the House of Saud. He is 100 percent correct. If every driver in American owned a Volt today he would still be 100 percent correct. Black Gold is the most addictive resource in the history of man. Learn to deal with it because there is no Rehab for this type of addiction.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:46 pm)What were we discussing? SMILE
-5
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:52 pm)I think Mr. Johan put on a pair of big-girl panties and said the truth. Back pedaling has diminished his cred, after all he is a President and you’re NOT.
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:54 pm)What, did I say something out loud (again)?
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:54 pm)Henderson has said GM knows what the Volt will cost, just not what the MSRP will be. Obviously GM wants as much money as possible, but the MSRP will be affected by things like the general state of the economy, the price of gas, and the availability of credit.
With respect to the price of the Prius, keep in mind that each generation has gotten better. The latest generation is larger, has better performance, gets better gas mileage, and looks a bit better. So while the price in real terms may have stayed the same, you’d be getting more for the same dollars.
That said, contrary to what the OP is saying, the price of the Prius really hasn’t changed. In fact, after the tax credits ran out, the price went down by the amount of the credit. AFAIK the best deal on a Prius could have been had a couple of years ago, when prices were dropped and financing deals were extended to clear an oversupply of inventory.
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:54 pm)In this he is correct. The ICE has been really cleaned up, beyond the the imaginings of even the looniest CARBite idiot. They gleefully created the ZEV category of polluting cars so they could gloat tha only FCEVs or BEVs woud be ZERO POLLUTION VEHICLES. A target the obviuosly fossil powered autos woud never achieve.
To their utter disbelief and consternation there were some 62 different car models that CARB reluctantly had to certify in rapidly created classifications as PZEVS or AT-ZEVs, that had no measureable emissions any more and qualified.
These models met the criteria of unmeasureable amounts of:
NMOGs 0.0;
CO 0.0;
NOx 0.0;
PM 0.0;
HCHO 0.0
These cars ranged from expensive, respected BMW 328is to pedestrian and panned Chrysler Sebrings and Avengers. All had no measureable emissions at all.
So all the Auto makers can do it, and…yes Fossil ICEs (but not diesels) can NOW be truly “clean”.
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:55 pm)If oil were the only natural commodity under supply pressures, it would be half as scary. There are a lot of core commodities (aluminum, copper, steel, etc) that are in similar situations to oil. A fast turn out of this recession would be brutal for prices even if without the federal stimulus and other fiscal policies. I do think the fed has a very close eye on the situation and will react quickly to try to tame the first glimmers of inflation or even just to back off the pedal as soon as they can. We are running on a razor’s edge right now and must for some time in order to pull out in a healthy manner. Fall one way and we double-dip into a nasty second phase of this slow down. Fall the other way and we have stagflation that may make the early 80′s seem tame.
Sep 4th, 2009 (3:59 pm)This is why a technological solution is always preferable to a political one.
A fusion / fission hybrid reactor using Thorium could greatly reduce the volume of nuclear waste from the last 50 years of commercial power generation with a bonus: more fuel for conventional reactors.
Guess what? The US has the second-largest known reserves of Thorium. The First? Australia.
(In a fusion fission hybrid, the fusor is used mainly as a source of neutrons to enable the Thorium-based fission, which does not produce energetic neutrons on it’s own. As a result, there is no reason for the fusion-half to meet energy “break even” requirements. Heat from the fission half is more than enough to power the fusor and still have usable output. Possibly something like the Polywell design would be sufficient for the neutrons. Safety advantage: When you turn the fusor off, the fission reaction stops).
It’s been a long time since I read about this, but the details can be Googled (and there are other new-wave nuclear proposals).
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:02 pm)Don’t try to confuse the chap, I am sure he would be scratching his head over this one if he could find it. Unfortunately his head is most likely firmly entrenched in the dark nether region of his hindquarters about now.
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:02 pm)On the Left Coast a fair number of people have traded in their German luxury cars for a Prius. I don’t see why some more wouldn’t do the same for a Volt.
As far as Audi id concerned, I don’t actually know anyone who is considering a Volt who drives an Audi, in fact I don’t know many people who drive an Audi other than the TT. However, the people in my neighborhood who are interested in a Volt are currently driving a BMW or a Porshe or a Lexus, so it wouldn’t be surprising if some Audi owners weren’t thinking about a new Volt as well.
+2
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:04 pm)Fake Statik ALERT.
The correct term would be “Sock Puppet Alert!”
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:05 pm)Bus driver
Sounds like a mail order class with you as the [teacher]
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:06 pm)DonC, I agree with your assessment and reasoning. Benanke was slow to recognize but quick to react effectively to the situation. Hopefully he can show a little more foresight in his policy making going forward. It can make a huge difference which direction we go from here. I would caution that we may not have avoid a depression yet from this economic collapse. For sure we have avoided it thus far and I think it unlikely we’ll enter something that will be categorized as one but there is still significant risk, IMO.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:08 pm)Most American consumers want a six month payback. (Unless of course when there is a crisis and then they go off the deep end in the other direction). But generally three years is too long a period, which is a big part of the energy problem. If people has a longer view then as a country we’d be far ahead of where we are now.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:17 pm)… this no doubt comes from your direct experience with addictive substances and Rehab.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:20 pm)What I hear is that someone finally explained to the top brass at Audi what “TT” actually means in American slang.
As a result, they will soon be changing the name of the car. The new name will be …
… the Euro-nator.
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:26 pm)So if you’re going to buy an electric car, why not go all the way and buy a Leaf?
What makes you think people who want an EV will stop at one?
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:38 pm)Nuclear is one of the cleanest sources for energy available. France gets something better than 70% of the energy that way and there is no reason we couldn’t do the same in the USA. The anti-nuclear folks are just igorant in my opinon. As a former nuclear power plant operator, I can tell you quite honestly that the dangers they bring up are grossly over stated and fail to the newer designs available today. As for nuclear waste, storeing it for a couple hundred years until we have the technology to ship to the sun is a piece of cake.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:40 pm)I have to disagree a little here. Once you get past significant fuel savings and advanced tech, I think the list will vary greatly. If they do end up with $40K as the MSRP, it should have a certain level of luxury to it. Not that it matters for the first year’s production of 10K but it will down the road. From what we do know, it has some “luxury” aspects already (quiet/smooth ride, good handling/performance, Bose audio, LCD screens, etc).
IMO, the breakout price is $30K after rabate. If they cost more, then it should have more refinement than a typical Chevy.
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:48 pm)You mean for the after rebate savings of $150
/Relax CJS, this is strictly MSRP-rebate math
Sep 4th, 2009 (4:55 pm)Didn’t Forrest, Forrest Gump have a better saying?
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (5:08 pm)You know, in reading your comment, I just realized how pet troll sounds a lot like petrol. Gasoline has been our troll for far too long.
Sep 4th, 2009 (5:11 pm)Agreed. Volt owners will come in all shapes and sizes. At least, until Converjs, Model Ses, Focus EV, Plug-in CUVs, and plug-in pickups are available.
Sep 4th, 2009 (5:31 pm)There should be a balloon caption above Nysschen’ head.
“I love the smell of gasoline in the morning”.
=D~
Sep 4th, 2009 (5:36 pm)Come on, grow up.
Sep 4th, 2009 (5:39 pm)The facts on well-to-wheel emissions of electric vehicles:
http://ohmexcited.googlepages.com/CO2.htm
Sep 4th, 2009 (5:54 pm)Probably prefers diesel.
Sep 4th, 2009 (5:55 pm)Jed, stop using your Thug McCalister alias.
Sep 4th, 2009 (6:02 pm)This is the kind of thinking that stagnates us all…our electrical grid needs updating along with our energy choices and investments…this means new jobs…it’s all about steering this Country to a better way of functioning!
Sep 4th, 2009 (6:27 pm)Stuart
I and I assume most who post here expect to pay for the charge in parking lots. However if an employer wishes to put in ree charging stations as a means of keeping the better employees, thats fine with me.
-1
Sep 4th, 2009 (6:33 pm)Yeah, and what about the hundreds of billions of dollars to pay for the military adventures to protect the oil sources and the supply lines? Externalized cost makes the world go round, and we pay for it.
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (6:36 pm)I always figured there were a lot of engineers following this blog (myself included). The fact that so many engineers are interested in this vehicle has to say something about the engineering solution GM has come up with.
And yes, I very much enjoy the financial perspective from someone who comes across as knowledgeable (statik and Laura M) with sources to back them up. No need for low blows when you’ve got data on your side.
Sep 4th, 2009 (6:44 pm)Lyle:
FWIW, i agree with you re free speech. Actually, I think that the little guys are kinda fun. They have given me a few laughs anyway. Plus, anything that increases traffic on the site is all to the good, right?
I cling to my theory that it’s “astroturfing”. Some PR firm probably pays him by the comment, LOL.
Sep 4th, 2009 (6:48 pm)Your logic holds up as long as your daily commute is substatially below the range of your electric car. Stuff happens. You go out to lunch sometimes? Now you are the guy who never drives. “Hey lets stop off after work at that beer and wings place for Dave’s last day” “Gee, I can’t its in the wrong direction for me.” etc. etc. Does that happen every day? Of course not but quite often things like that just pop up during the day.
Unless of course you’re one of the people that never go anywhere after work… Sorry I brought it up.
Seriously though the Volt is about having your cake and eating it too. No compromises. Guilt free. Until EV’s can go 300 miles and recharge in 5 minutes then EREV will rule.
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:04 pm)Very well put together study with one important mistake. He uses averages for his analysis and although he points out that the power grid may not be able to handle the additional load of electric vehicles his big mistake is that electric vehicles will mostly be charged off peak when the grid is under utilized. This will result in much lower than average line losses then what he used in his calculations. That is because line losses are current X current X voltage. Which means that if the power supplied by the grid is 1/2 as much during the night then the line losses are 1/4 as much. This is “free” power that will be delivered to the end user during the night rather than heating up transmission lines during the day.
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:12 pm)Lyle hit the nail on the head. It’s about Energy Independence. That’s the goal.
I believe global warming is real, but it’s a tough sell. About 1/3 of the population believe climate change is a critical problem that must be addressed immediately. Another 1/3 believe climate change is real, but won’t really affect people that much. The remaining 1/3 believe global warming is a basically a hoax. With that kind of mix, it’s politically impossible to get anything done.
But when you look energy independence, the political climate changes dramatically. All sorts of people can get behind this:
• National security experts agree that oil will become a huge strategic asset.
• Economists saw how $4/gallon gas came right before near economic collapse.
• The religious right doesn’t want to empower non-christian governments.
• More people are starting to connect-the-dots between oil money and terrorism.
• Some farmers are looking to cash-in on windmills and energy crops.
• Environmentalists can see how energy independence will help their cause as well.
• And if that’s not enough, it just feels really wrong to be at the mercy of other countries for oil, especially when most oil exporting nations don’t share our ideals of freedom, capitalism, and democracy.
So if we want things to get done, we should all get behind one phrase:
Energy Independence
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:12 pm)There he is….sinking….and me with a big stick.
Do I pull him out or club him?
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:19 pm)Scooter is a Homo
+1
Sep 4th, 2009 (7:36 pm)lol Nice! Me loves Pixar movie quotes!
“It’s a CONSPIRACY man!”
(Cars)
Sep 4th, 2009 (8:08 pm)Nothing like this floating around the NRC right now and it would take at least a decade to get moving through the system.
Right now, all of the new plants will be light water reactors that the country already knows how to run and regulate.
Maybe if we get the countries opinion turned around on Nukes we can do some of the more advanced plants.
Sep 4th, 2009 (10:47 pm)My point was basically that a) yes we have inflationary pressures, and b) yes, we also have deflationary pressures. I don’t know which one will win. But, you’re right, there is a high risk of hyperinflation. And it could be much worse than the Carter era. Especially if the US government decides to monetize its debt rather than facing up to the deficits.
My point about China was based on the blog that ClarksonCote cited. While I’m not optimistic about the future of the US dollar, I don’t see the Chinese renmimbi becoming the world reserve currency anytime soon. China just isn’t stable enough. And their economic data isn’t reliable. And their whole economy is based on a weak renmimi.
By the way, the decline of the dollar is not a totally bad thing. . Yes. It means we’re all poorer. But, in the long run, the strength of the US dollar has taken a major toll on our manufacturing sector. And on US jobs in general. US labor is much more expensive relative to that of other coutnries because of it. And as a result, we’re still exporting jobs, and those jobs are moving up the food chain. At some point it has to stop.
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:01 pm)I agree that it’s a very scary situation. And a delicate balancing act that the Fed can’t possibly get completely right. Not only that, but I’m not at all sure fiscal policies can cure inflation based on a rise in the price of commodities. I’m very worried that we might still sink into a depression. Those unemployment numbers are pretty scary. Yes, I know unemployment is a lagging indicator. But the last recovery was a jobless one, and that’s just not sustainable.
I’m even more worried that the US economy will return to “normal growth” because we’ve postponed the inevitable yet again, and made matters worse in the process. There is a lot of fiscal stimulus going on right now. by practically every government in the world. And at some point that’s going to have to stop. I just hope that when it does, we’re not worse off than before we started.
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:33 pm)It IS a conspiracy. Who told you??!?
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:53 pm)Thank you everyone for the compliments. But I want to add a disclaimer that I definitely don’t know anywhere near as much as Statik does. Especially about GM in particular, and the auto industry in general.
Sep 4th, 2009 (11:57 pm)I’m glad. It’s great that GM has at least one major hit that’s not a truck or an SUV.
Sep 5th, 2009 (12:46 am)“He doesn’t remember last summer when the price of diesel in his own country was shooting past the roof?”
Are you talking about the United States ?
Johan is from South Africa:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/johan-de-nysschen/4/70/691
What makes you think a rich, white South African has the best interests of the USA at heart ? A lot of them were pretty mad when the US (well, some in the US) pressured them to release Mandela and end apartheid…
Sep 5th, 2009 (12:52 am)Sadly true Thug Johnson.
The Volt’s large batteries are a mistake. They make the car cost a fortune and they have to perform beyond what is possible with the technology. These batteries will reduce passenger and trunk space. The energy density of these batteries is just too low.
Over 50% of America’s power comes from coal plants that do not sequester carbon. Making cars run off of the grid is essentially making them run on dirty coal. This means that diesels are cleaner than gas/electric Volts. The grid needs to be cleaned up, but a cap and trade system won’t help. Cap and trade will make energy more expensive. Get ready for your electricity rates to shoot up.
Hydrogen is what should replace coal. Steam reforming of natural gas is very efficient and it’s a place to start. Manure and other organic wastes can add to the natural gas supply. What we don’t
need to do is burn the millions of barrels of OIL that were recently discovered in the Gulf of Mexico.
I am hopeful when the Volt does hit the market that people will realize it isn’t worth the price it costs and considering that the battery is the number one cost problem for the Volt, I don’t see
the price coming down.
Sep 5th, 2009 (12:55 am)“So what’s left? There is wave power, there is natural gas, and
that just about sums up the options…”
Ahem, I did mention natural gas.
Sep 5th, 2009 (1:15 am)There is plenty of green energy potential to produce hydrogen which can be used at any time unlike green electricity which has to be used when it is produced. Hydrogen in a hydride or an organic liquid stores for a very long time and it transports easily. Hydrogen pipelines are relatively cheap at $500k a mile and they can be reasonably long. One possibility for Europe is solar power generation in the deserts of Northern Africa with the power being used to electrolyze water and the hydrogen can then then pumped via pipelines under the Mediterranean sea to Europe.
1 Every state with suitable land needs to establish a nuclear
waste repository and build nuclear power plants using the
latest and safest ever high temperature designs.
2 Coal plants need to be cleaned up so they don’t spew Mercury
and other heavy metals. Clean coal needs to be a reality.
Coal power is dirtier than nuclear power, clean it up.
3 Solar to hydrogen research needs a greater emphasis and
funding. All eco friendly means of getting to hydrogen need
more emphasis and funding.
4 The current battery focus needs to be toned down in relation
to the reality that hydrogen and a fuel cell make a better power
source than a battery alone, hands down.
5 Natural gas should be used to get hydrogen.
6 The electrical grid needs to be updated with
hydrogen on the table.
7 Government motors needs to rebel and start another
project driveway for the fuel cell Volt.
8 Petroleum based fuels should be abandoned for transportation
use within 10 years time.
The nation should set a short term goal to get to:
25% clean coal, 35% nuclear, 20% Natural gas,
20% a mix of hydropower, renewables, and hydrogen.
Old light water reactors need to be replaced with 6th
generation or later nuclear tech.
Sep 5th, 2009 (1:46 am)Lyle, if you came after me for pushing hydrogen as doing
something that is unacceptable on these forums than you
aren’t about free speech. You are as political as that
Obamanation in the white house who has already
decided that fuel cell cars will not be marketable for
20 years while battery cars will supposedly be
marketable sooner.
People, please don’t pretend to be someone else on here.
I think the president of Audi had something to say that needed to be said and he simply said it badly. He should have been more direct in his criticism of the Volt and more professional. He should not have made any attempt to apologize. The battery deserves very harsh criticism in my opinion and furthermore it should not be pushed as a substitute for a hydrogen fuel cell.
There is a fuel cell Volt Lyle that you don’t talk about much. You
really should, I hear there are many at GM in high positions that
believe hydrogen ultimately will bring energy independence.
Sep 5th, 2009 (6:15 am)I doubt you would want to hear what GM has to say about hydrogen behind closed doors.
Thankfully, the government has finally realized a bird in hand is worth more than 2 in the Bush (or 3/4 in the bush in this case).
Sep 5th, 2009 (7:21 am)Bus driver,
Technically you’re right and I concede. The US can build offshore drilling platforms to get more oil, add natural gas pumps to most gas stations, etc… but that’s a bandage.
It doesn’t solve anything; you still have the problem of being completely dependent on a non-renewable energy source. People only ever use 2 forms of energy, electricity and oil. Electricity is renewable, oil isn’t and having the US become energy independent by just using home grown fossil fuels is “better” but still a big problem. It just pushes the problem a little more down the road so that it becomes a bigger problem for later generations.
I also don’t like the idea of spending $$$ on a bandage when the same $$$ could be spent on a real solution; even though it may have to be done.
Personally I would rather the US not be involved in the inevitable “energy wars” that are bound to continue happening. We’ve already been involved too much and personally I’m sick of it.
- Xed
Sep 5th, 2009 (11:25 am)Excellent comment! But, what else should Audi say, as they overslept as every German car-maker the latest propulsion technologies. Sticking to the Diesel, an invention of the 19th century, to make “future-proof” cars is pretty unimpressive. That’s something for idiots.
Sep 5th, 2009 (1:11 pm)As long as I can still get a double-cheeseburger for $1.00, or a pizza for $5, i’m happy.
Sep 5th, 2009 (2:09 pm)Maybe he is saying folks who buy electric vehicles are idiots because he has not produced this product yet to the market. If you can plug it in at your house and only uses 2 dollars worth of electricity find it hard to believe the grid will be overloaded in the next decade .
Sep 5th, 2009 (3:44 pm)Yes Dan and I repeat it I swear I’ll never buy an Audi
And BTW, just a few hours ago I was going to the supermarket, a snob Audi driver was blocking the parking entry with five cars behind it, I don’t wont to be considered as on of those ..
Regards,
JC LJGTAWOTR, NPNS
Sep 5th, 2009 (3:45 pm)Yes Noel, Right,
Jc
Sep 5th, 2009 (4:05 pm)Most Audi drivers in Europe are not to be frequented, they are mostly snobs believing the road is theirs (unlike BMW and Mercedes drivers). The bad behavior of those completely degrades the image of Audi cars for me.
SO I’ll never buy an Audi. (it is the 5th time I repeat it since two days)
Regards
JC NPNS
Sep 5th, 2009 (4:13 pm)Hi Frank,
Here in the EU, the problem has been solved by the EC in Brussels. (Clean cars directive April 2009)
To evaluate the energy used by a car you just compute how much it consumes when running.
The environmental efficiency of electricity production is the problem of the electricity producers not the the one of the EV drivers.
Like it is for the refineries, not for the ICE car drivers.
Well said I must say.
Regards,
JC NPNS
Sep 5th, 2009 (4:40 pm)I agree with you Laura M, and pronto should have meant at least in President Carter’s time.
Regards,
JC NPNS
Sep 5th, 2009 (5:07 pm)Words spoken by a true dinosaur – someone has to take the first steps to get us off gas produced from dinosaur crap!!!
Sep 7th, 2009 (7:38 pm)Not really. First, we’re borrowing a lot more than we are printing, and if we printed 150% of what was in circulation, the increase in supply would 2.5x not 1.5x. Next, when inflation hits, which it will, the price of the Gob. Motors Volt will rocket upwards with it. It will be made from parts sourced outside the US which will demand higher compensation due to our weakening dollar. Also, if the Volt costs $40,000 when it debuts and you can’t afford a $40,000 electrified camry, why would you be able to afford it when everything else, like groceries, costs 2x what it does now? Do you think your income will go up more than inflation in a slowing economy with massive job losses? Generally, that’s not how it works, so you will likely be less able to afford a $40,000 car, using the same or slightly higher income than you have today considering groceries, gas, insurance, rent etc. will all be much more expensive.
2010 will be a landmark year for the US economy, 2011 won’t be any better. The Volt will debut at a time when people cannot afford $40,000 new cars, resent bailouts, stimulus and tax credits for consuming beyond your means. I expect it will fail.
Sep 7th, 2009 (11:28 pm)I would like to find the statement by CARB that EVs and FCVs produce more CO2/vehicle than ALL other vehicles. I would be willing to bet that Johan de Nysschen could not produce the source of that quote. In fact CARB says that well-to-wheels CO2 for FCVs must be less than 30% of typical gasoline car.
Sep 9th, 2009 (5:42 am)I guess I am one of those idiots that will take a Volt. This idiot has thirty thousand waiting to pay for his Volt. Can GM delivery soon?
Sep 9th, 2009 (9:20 am)First off the world is full of idiots, so he is not far off. Idiots may be harsh or derogatory but it does describe us in the right way. We are idiots, supporting a system that has built in failure and adding cost to everything and stifling the delivery of something I believe we all should be driving. The only way, and the cheapest way to create the most demand and lower the cost, and the fastest, is to stop subsidizing the cost of gas. Pull all the troops out of the Middle East and other countries that we have no right being. Let gas go to the actual cost which would be much higher without our involvement in other countries. Now we may have the right to some of that oil as to us bringing the technology to them but that is as far as it goes. Throwing our goodness around in the form of costly wars is not what this country should support. There should be no government involvement needed. If there is then it will never work. How long does the government continue to print money out of thin air to subsidize the plug-ins? How much of my money did it cost to run the “Cash for Clunkers” failure and how long did it last. Once its done is there so much prosperity in the country that we all are going to stand in line like “idiot” sheeple. No prosperity ever comes from printing money to solve problems. Until we all understand that principle in this country. We will continue to ask the government to step in and hand out some monopoly money and walla Utopia!