Alex Cattelan is a GM engineer working on development of the Voltec powertrain, and has been involved in the Volt program ever since the beginning.
She recently had the chance to drive a pre-production Volt out among a fleet of seven cars to Knoxville, Tennessee. Cattelan also noted she has previously driven pre-production and mule Volts in cold Canadian winter conditions, high altitudes in Denver, and the scorching heat of Death Valley, and through it all “we have not found any surprises,” she wrote.
Cattelan says that the “twisty, winding roads” of Knoxville are particularly a place where “you really get to see what a car is made of.” And in that place she said of the Volt’s performance from a driver experience standpoint “we are happy with the results.”
She explains it was in those mountains of Tennessee that GM worked to “calibrate how the Volt’s battery energy, fuel efficiency, and drive quality work together in real world conditions.”
She explains that a car must give back to the driver what he or she would expect, and the Volt is no exception. It must feel right and respond intuitively. She says it should have the same feeling both in EV and charge sustainting mode, should climb hills as needed and if its 95 degres outside “take the heat.”
In all these ways on those mountains the Volt lived up to her expectations.
In an almost poetic fashion she writes:
As I stood next to the Volt on top of a mountain last weekend, I felt overwhelmingly enthusiastic about its capability.
I’m confident that Chevy Volt drivers will feel invigorated like I do by its exciting, smooth, quiet, and fuel-efficient performance.
I imagine there’s a lot of people just waiting to get their chance to see for themselves, myself among them.
Source (GM)
This entry was posted on Wednesday, September 2nd, 2009 at 8:21 am and is filed under Environment, Prototypes, Test drive. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:27 am)And we are waiting another year and a bit because….
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:34 am)Great. Now let Lyle drive it. Around his home area should be a good place to test the Volt also. I would be happy to test one in my home area, too.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:35 am)Boy, I’d sure like to hear more details about how it performed in the mountains. It’s clear that the Volt met her expectations but I’m not sure what her expectations were! Would someone else be just as satisfied? That’s why I’d like to hear something more objective like speed and acceleration figures, decibel noise levels, fuel economy results, miles per charge, regenerative braking results, and so on. When, oh when, will GM become truly forthright about telling us the whole truth?
+43
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:43 am)because they are setting up the manufacturing lines and firming up all the details of all the components.. plus dealer training to maintain and repair the Volt..
This is not your father’s oldsmobile, this is new stuff and lots of details have to be looked at. Respect the process.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:44 am)I couldn’t help but notice that she is taking up two parking spaces.
I also noted that her comments appear to be a very carefully worded press release. No word on the switch to charge sustaining mode etc. I can understand their caution given what is at stake. If any test driver gives bad marks on any feature, it can get blown out of proportion in the media.
I couldn’t agree more with Lyle getting to drive one!! That man needs to get behind the wheel.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:44 am)You realize anything they say will be used by the competition?
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:45 am)Consider the camaro time to market while the Mustang and Charger were already on the street.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:45 am)Well, there’s no pleasing everyone, it seems.
What will you accept? A Car and Driver performance review? You’ll have to wait until the cars are available for sale.
It seems to me that this report has at least taken some steam out of the trolls’ sails.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:48 am)This is a very good news and I don’t mean just Tn. But rather the fact that it is being tested in the real world.
I hope they test it in Tn. again only this time with a Prius as a standard and let us know how the Volt compares [beats the Prius I hope] on hills, milage, acceleration and cornering over say 100 miles. I mean a real 100 mile road trip not a loop that is repeated till the miles total 100.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:50 am)Speaking of training Chevy dealers to sell and service the Volt: I sure hope they take the product, and its implications for the new GM, seriously.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:51 am)…. there’s more going on than perfecting the car; they also have to bring manufacturing (all supply lines included) up to speed.
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:52 am)This is nice to hear, I would like to be able to do the same soon. I hope they surprise us with a large supply and early roll out.
Zel
And Remember GM:
Jacksonville Fl, 54 mile commute round trip, 110v 20a plug at work to recharge and designated parking spot. Just saying I will volunteer. Really.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:52 am)It will be next spring before the Volt is let out into the wild. Around that time we will start getting much more information from GM and outside sources. There will be plenty of car and driver type of testing and reporting. Some of it will be good, some will be great and some of it will not be as good as we would like for it to be. But that is the nature of the animal. The Volt is not going to satisfy every single person’s needs around the world. And some people will not be satisfied no matter how the Volt performs. GM haters will continue to hate GM. They will just have an additional target to point their hate towards. Nothing new there. Not now, not later.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:54 am)Sounds like a job for Consumer Reports. Again, this kind of thing is sure to come once actual production Volts become available. Anything done now would have to include the caveat “prototype Volt.”
+4
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:55 am)Other than the two parking places, what else would you expect? It is not her job to tell all there is about the Volt. Personally, I think we are lucky to even have heard this much about the test. Think of all the other test outside of GM that she mentioned and we had not heard about them. It is good to now hear that GM is doing exactly what some of us thought GM would be doing about now.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:56 am)Would it not be awesome to actually spot one of these prototypes out on a real-world test.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:56 am)This is a major problem!
My folks just had their Malibu Maxx in for service at the ‘biggest’ GM dealer in town and it was a complete gong show.
This sort of junk needs to stop NOW!
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:57 am)Good to see “there were no suprises”. I would be curious to know the efficiency of the vehicle under the extreme conditions. It is reasonable to expect a hit on the AER when the A.C. is blasting or when driving up and down the mountains, but I’m just wondering how it fares in those conditions? I doubt GM will share that info. at this stage but thought I’d ask anyway.
+5
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:59 am)Normally with new car development you would ‘just’ be starting to get grainy ‘spy’ photos of “an as-yet unnamed new model” at this point.
That’s why.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:04 am)Expand on the gong show. I don’t understand just what happened. Was service bad? Were they treated terrible? Explain, please.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:05 am)Never hurts to ask. Just don’t expect an answer at this time and you will not be disappointed. I hate disappointments! Don’t you?
+4
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:07 am)I wish I trusted CR but I don’t. I fear they will give as honest a report on the Volt as the minister of trade in Japan would.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:08 am)I wonder what the tall antenna on top of the Volt was used for. Communications back to home base or just among the test group. Interesting.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:09 am)“I couldn’t help but notice that she is taking up two parking spaces.”
She may be an engineer and a GM insider, but she’s still a woman.
… donning flame resistant suit …
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:10 am)I wonder if this is where they were?
http://www.tailofthedragon.com/dragon_radar.html
Looks like a fun place to drive ….. err burn up tires.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:10 am)Fewer people would trust GM to make such a comparison (sad, but true). I certainly would not trust Toyota to do it.
Perhaps other mags and sites will be more balanced.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:12 am)You really enjoy pain—–right.
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:13 am)I’m confident that Chevy Volt drivers will feel invigorated like I do by its exciting, smooth, quiet, and fuel-efficient performance.
————————
Coming from a professional driver, that is a strong statement.
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:13 am)Yes, we know a tremendous amount more about the Volt at this juncture in its development than any vehicle in history. At least it seems this way. I can’t think of any other vehicle that has been so open in its development. Not saying GM is not keeping secrets that we all want to know. Sure they are, but we know so much about this car compared to past developments. Even with that its like a kid eating candy. The more you give him, the more he wants. I am satisfied to take smaller bites and make the taste last as long as it can because I know more is coming soon. I can wait. I can wait. I can wait…. … … …
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:16 am)That was intended as humor, of course. For some reason it wouldn’t let me come back and edit in a smiley face, or a “ba-dump-bump.”
May Laura M have mercy on my soul.
(adding smiley face on first posting, this time)
-23
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:16 am)(click to show comment)
+6
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:16 am)Reports like this must really be discouraging to the Volt doubters.
It is becoming crystal clear that this car is being refined and tested thoroughly and properly. The attention to detail is evident. The fact that GM is not being influenced by the critics to speed up the release of the car, and cut corners, in light of all the other OEM’s flashy press releases about their “green car” entries to the market just again shows their commitment to doing this right. I think it is a sign that GM takes this drive train seriously; not just as a “green car” halo, but as a real, true progression of the automobile.
An electric car with no compromises and efficient and responsible use of the battery resource. I am sure that this time next year, other OEM’s will be rushing out their cobbled together prototypes stealing thunder from GM’s progression to the Volt release.
The difference is, once Volt comes out, the drawbacks and the corners that were cut with the other designs will be evident. Part of me almost wishes that the other OEM’s do rush their’s out first, just so the inevitable comparisons to the Volt are even more striking.
+4
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:16 am)Good try, Zel. I bet you will hear that type of “song and dance” plenty as the months roll on. I have done a little dancing myself. Pretty soon I might try the singing part. I just don’t have the conduit to GM like Lyle and some others. Nor does any of us deserve it like Lyle.
Hey Lyle! When GM gives you that Volt to drive for several months, let us know and we can line up at your house (or anywhere you name) to ride “shotgun”. Of course the line will consist of about 25,000 of the nearly 50,000 signed up on the site. But what’s that amonst friends. Just makes the party bigger.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:16 am)Per wsj, BP said today it has made a “giant” oil discovery in a deep well drilled in U.S. waters in the Gulf of Mexico. Guess the ICE is not dead yet.
-14
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:19 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:19 am)Was in that same area about 2 weeks ago. Most of the spaces in the parking lots at the overlooks were empty. Beautiful and uncrowded.
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:20 am)OK, first of all the basic stuff… The car has been with them for almost a week. There was a loaner so although inconvenient it wasn’t a show stopper. (My mother was laughing about the crank windows!)
So, they call and say the car will be road tested and good to go by ten. So they show up at 11 and the car is not ready, not tested, and NOT fixed. They had been working on the trans shifter and left it out of adjustment so the shifter did not work correctly.
Next Day…
They call and say the car will be road tested and good to go by ten. So they show up at 11 and the car is not ready and not tested (sound familiar?) the ‘service’ girl hadn’t done the paperwork for the warranty so they had to wait, again, They pay the cashier for ANOTHER deductable that the cashier insisted opon before they could get the keys… They mentioned this to the ‘service’ girl (sorry she can ONLY get that title with mini quotes) who of course hadn’t told the cashier not to charge them so they had to wait again.
YES they got the second deductable back, but they will likely NEVER go back to that ‘service’ dept. I wouldn’t!
If the GM dealer network cannot perform at least ‘good’ service then all is lost.
I CAN afford to buy a Volt.
But it’s about the same price as a MB C300 4-matic…
It’s time to put up or shut up.
Sadly as much as I like the Volt concept, I’m losing hope that the dealer network can come even close to doing a good job supporting it.
If this isn’t fixed and PRONTO GM will fail for good.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:20 am)My business is right on a secondary highway (rt 23) about 3 hours south of Detroit. I have seen many test cars and trucks (GM and Dodge trucks pulling car carriers, Malibu, Challenger, Charger, Vette to name a few) driving back to Detroit over the past few years. Still watching for the Volt however.
+10
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:22 am)“Because SloMoGM is on Snail time.”
… well, you ought to know. Say, how’s that dial-up workin’ out for ya?
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:23 am)I WOULD BE THERE! NO MATTER WHERE THERE IS!
+5
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:26 am)Great answer. I read this story yesterday, and I was thrilled to hear driving the foothills was a breeze with all the instant torque of the Chevy Volt. In a few years, this advanced vehicle is going to look like a dinosaur compared to the complex drivetrains being conceptualized by BMW and others, not to mention the dramatic .22 drag coefficient achieved through wind deflection and ducting achieved through discontinuous body paneling.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:26 am)LOL, may Laura M have mercy on your soul….
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:27 am)Hell hath no fury like a Volt driver scorned.
=D~
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:27 am)Best case, the Internal Combustion Engine will be around for a long, long time. Hopefully, most of that time will see a decline in size, fuel-use and number.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:28 am)Jackson
Totally agree with you regarding a fair report from GM. They can not fair as this is their big hope for a strong come back.
I would like to Lyle drive it and Statik among others from this site.
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:28 am)Hey! Hey! I am a subscriber to CR. Don’t insult the minister of trade in Japan like that! No, really. CR will give it a good going over and then at the end they will say: “Although we found the Volt performs as GM intended and we found no outright flaws, we can’t recommend it because of GM service and quality problems of the last few decades prior to 2007″. Or some snot like that. There are some things CR does good and one of them is to build up foreign vehicles and put down American vehicles. And, to be honest, they deserved to be put down. But in the past few years quality at Ford and GM has improved greatly and CR has begun to recognize it. But they still have a hard time recommending Ford and GM over most foreign makes. Chrysler, bless its heart, just gets raked over the coals without even trying to be fair.
But, what the heck. I just renewed my subscription for two more years because I believe that down deep they truly love us and want us to have only the best products at the fairest prices. And stuff like that. No, really, there is a service they serve and they do a pretty good job overall. Just not always. CR surveys results (because they are more people’s opinion than facts) are always biased against American autos.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:42 am)Hey, I have the same chance you do (i.e. none)
53 mile round-trip. No plug at the office that I know of, but it’s a parking garage for the building… Outside Chicago, IL.
I’ll take one too!
As Michael said: Waiting is.
…
…
difficult. (he didn’t say that part)
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:44 am)I think the large oil find is good news for the E-REV type vehicles while not so good for the BEV type. But it will not stop the revelution in cars because it will be to late and in my opinion to little. This additional oil will not begin to satisfy the growing thirst of China and many other countrys.
-2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:46 am)I would assume that for every “test driver” in this captured fleet, there are many rules and restrictions which go along with the opportunity. Alex’s comments probably had to pass the scrutiny of some big P.R. guy at GM before they could be handed to Lyle. I would expect many more such comments from other drivers.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:54 am)CR = “survey says … “
To some extent, US car prejudice in Consumer Reports is a reflection of what actual car buyers believe. Don’t shoot the messenger.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:57 am)Lets also not forget that oil gets used for a lot of things other than transportation; mainly chemicals, fertilizers and heating. In transportation, a serious fraction gets used for aviation, heavy trucks, trains, ocean-going vessels (etc).
We may never get completely off of petroleum; but I think there is at least some hope that one day the US may be able to stop importing it.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:01 am)Looks like a CB radio antenna.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:02 am)THAT is funny!
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:02 am)The simple fact is that it doesn’t matter what GM or Japan or even CR has to say about how the Volt performs.
WE will be posting the REAL WORLD driving results of the Volt, once we get our butts in the seats and hands on the wheel…. The reports will be from all over the world.
Those will be the best reports available, and they will be here as of Nov, 2010!!!! Can’t wait to post my report, and read all of yours.
Go GM! Go GM Volt Team!!!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:03 am)Great! Keep us posted.
As time moves forward, actual Volt road-sitings are going to become a more exciting aspect of this site.
I’ll accept a Volt-on-a-transporter sighting, at this point.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:03 am)Let’s get some Volts up here in the Rockies and see how they do. Rolling hills are one thing, but 10,000 ft mountain passes are a real proving ground!
And instead of “poetic” writing of an employee test driver I’d like to see some hard data from independent sources. 50-70 acceleration times, dyno results, etc….
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:05 am)Me too, i’ll renew my passport and cross the Atlantic for that.
Regards,
JC NPNS
+5
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:07 am)Simple is best… The more you put into a car, the more that can and will break.
-9
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:08 am)August U.S. sales results shows GM sales declining by 20.1% while Toyota sales showed a strong 6.4% gain.
Toyota is now less than 3 percentage points of taking over the entire U.S. auto market ! Of course they have already widened their lead in the Global market.
It’s very nice to be Toyota these days. Thank you very much.
+20
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:09 am)this advanced vehicle is going to look like a dinosaur compared to the complex drivetrains being conceptualized by BMW
The BMW struck me as an overly complex design without any real benefit. Rather than “less is more” the design principle seemed to be “more is more” and “a lot more is a even better”. Was there a design concept that wasn’t in the BMW? EV? Check. Parallel Hybrid? Check. Split power? Check. Multiple Motors? Check. Serial Parallel Hybrid? Check.
All rolled into an impractical shell from a company whose only accomplishment in the EV field to date is to have messed up AC Propulsions very good drive train. (Until actually proven I’d put the Cd claims in the same basket as range claims).
Going forward the issue is clearly battery technology and cost. For EVs to have a genuine impact, they need to cost less, not have more complex drive trains that cost more.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:09 am)The Dragon’s too *expletive* crowded with too many people that think they’re Valentino Rossi.
Cherohala Skyway’s nice, though.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:11 am)Sorry about the vent guys…
I just really hate that GM and it’s dealers keep shooting themselves in the foot.
Also anyone who treats my family badly does NOT get my business.
THAT dealer will not get my business, ever.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:12 am)Also note she didn’t say there weren’t any problems. She said there weren’t any “surprises”. Usually you expect some problems, and as long as they’re not in an unexpected area, that’s OK.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:14 am)WHO WILL BE FIRST on this site to actually purchase a production Volt?
Okay, who other than Lyle will be first?
This could become another growth-area of speculation at gm-volt.com!
-18
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:15 am)(click to show comment)
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:15 am)“and if its 95 degrees outside “take the heat.””
Living in Arizona, I wish Alex had said 110 degrees….95 is mid to late spring. But since they tested in Death Valley (hopefully in summer) we should be ok.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:16 am)CR is fine. It tests what it tests. But that’s true of all reviews. The car magazines go for performance and JD Powers goes for all kinds of wonky things (if a radio is different then it’s marked down as an “initial defect”). Probably no one review gives a complete picture.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:17 am)That’s a big 10-4, good buddy.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:18 am)Hi RB that was just a question asked during a master’s thesis presentation this morning, the student showed that the more we have EVs, E-REVs, BEVs, on the roads, the less the pressure on the price of gas will be.
So if more taxes are not imposed on gas ,gas may be there for a long time still.
Regards,
JC NPNS
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:22 am)So would we all!
But lets be realistic, THOSE numbers won’t show up for most of a year from now.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:22 am)“Less is more” and “more is more” are oversimplifications about how design is done. Yes BMW’s drivetrain is complicated but if it delivers the stated performance then what’s the problem? 62mpg in charge sustaining mode, 31 AER, 0-60 in 4.8. So whats the problem? If it turns out to be too expensive or difficult to manufacture then there is a problem but just because its got different split series and parallel paths does not mean this will be the case. If anything it will be simpler than a typical AWD car because you eliminate a diff with a dedicated motor on the front axle. Unfortunately it will never see production. I dont know why people are paid so much to design cars they will never make.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:22 am)Here in the States, if GM isn’t prevented by state law from terminating the dealer, and if it tries to terminate it on grounds that the dealer provides bad service, all the Republican representatives who support the free market, along with some Democratic representatives, will be outraged that the free market is working as it should so they’ll introduce a bill to stop it.
Having said this, my advice to your parents would be to contact GM and complain. There are benefits to avoiding this type of thing.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:24 am)Nothing better than a sunny afternoon on the Tail of the Dragon, the best motorcycle highway every created by mankind. Just took my new Triumph Tiger 1050 SE on a mission to carve up the Dragon. Mission Accomplished.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:26 am)As soon as I can…..
Zel
And Remember GM:
Jacksonville Fl, 54 mile commute round trip, 110v 20a plug at work to recharge and designated parking spot. Just saying I will volunteer. Really.
-7
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:27 am)You forgot to mention that Hyundai was up 47% and Kia up more than 60%. If Toyota doesn’t succeed in conquering the Americans the Koreans will. We love America and Americans love our superior cars. Enjoy.
-13
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:29 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:30 am)I think you stubbed your tow….whats it like under the bridge?
Zel
And Remember GM:
Jacksonville Fl, 54 mile commute round trip, 110v 20a plug at work to recharge and designated parking spot. Just saying I will volunteer. Really.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:32 am)“I wish I trusted CR but I don’t. I fear they will give as honest a report on the Volt as the minister of trade in Japan would.”
I agree.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:33 am)He’s a lifetime GM buyer and is right now very unhappy with the dealer (and by extension GM) he will NOT contact GM because he won’t, it’s not his way.
But you can BET that he will rememeber this next time he buys a car.
The sad part about this is that I did NOT know this was going on when I had my rant about dealer service last week. But the dealers operated down to my low expectations without hesitation.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:36 am)I wonder if GM has done any testing on the “Grapevine” section of I-5 north of Los Angeles. Those long, protracted grades and hot temperatures are a good test for any car!
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:37 am)In a few years this advanced vehicle is going to look like a dinosaur compared to the follow on vehicles offerd by GM as technology and development advance.
LJGTVWOTR!!
-3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:37 am)Why would I consider a 42 year old vehicle?
Here’s another make/model from the same release era as the Camaro:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Zephyr#Zodiac_and_Executive_Mark_IV
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:38 am)I wish GM would increase production and step up time table – they are letting the competition (MB etc…) beat them to market which will cause loss of market share (IMHO).
Great to see performance is as expected.
I still do not like the new hood on the Volt – Ir gives the car a cheap look with the seam/gap on the side instead of the drop in hood look of the Malibu and Equinox. Makes it look like a KIA – not quality
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:40 am)Hence all the testing for the Volt which is decidedly complicated!
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:42 am)The P.E.:
Can’t have door dings in one of the few existing Volts. Plus, you can’t get a decent photo with cars scrunched up to both sides.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:45 am)It’s to communicate with all of us in our tinfoil hats. And my personal favorite, the brazing rod pyramid hat. Can’t you hear the voices?
-18
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:46 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:47 am)It is reasonable to expect a hit on the AER when the A.C. is blasting or when driving up and down the mountains?
Probably not. Moving mass up hills takes energy, and the Volt may weigh 3800 pounds loaded. You’re looking at the force of gravity times the mass of the car times the vertical distance moved. That’s a large amount of energy as compared to say, the losses from rolling resistance, which is the mass of the car times the force of gravity times the coefficient of resistance which is a couple of decimals — like .007.
But with regen mountain should not be so hard on efficiency as it is for a combustion engine. Imagine if you started at a top of a mountain with 5 gallons of gas and finished the bottom with 6. That’s sort of what happens with regen.
-15
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:47 am)(click to show comment)
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:50 am)Forget Knoxville Tennessee. Let’s get it out on the track at Laguna Seca, Sears Point (sorry, Infineon Raceway) or Willow Springs and see what it will really do. You can learn more there in 30 minutes that you can cruising around Tennessee for a week. The real forced draft development.
The same goes for all of the Valentino Rossi wannabes.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:52 am)That’s a typical Soccer mom parking job right there. I can tell.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:53 am)This century will be one of great discovery for the growing Oil Industry. EV popularity will have absolutely no effect on the worldwide dependence on Black Gold. You just gotta love the times we live in. Many more fine discoveries on the horizon. Yes indeed. Cheers.
-15
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:57 am)(click to show comment)
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:57 am)Agree here in CA. We normally get at least 15 days of above 102degF, one year we were in the 110degF. I though I was breathing fire but that was just halitosis.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:58 am)I wouldn’t get overly excited. While this probably means 500,000 barrels per day, that won’t happen for another fifteen or twenty years. And while each barrel of oil will yield about 42 gallons of gasoline, keep in mind that ethanol production today is more than a billion gallons per year.
This is certainly helpful, especially for BP shareholders, but when you look at world demand for oil finds like this, even aggregated, aren’t going to dramatically change the price proposition. The fact is that we need a less expensive energy source in order to continue with economic development.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:01 am)I don’t think moving a body line is going to keep someone from buying a Volt. Heck, if they did that from the start (they should have done more homework on Europe laws in the first place) no one would know any different. They did what they did to be able to sell it in Europe. If you think about it one body that can be sold in US and Europe as opposed to 2 makes sense from the business standpoint.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:02 am)Here’s Alex Cattelan at Hybrid Fest 08
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3060916813586965796#
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:06 am)That too is true. I like how automakers are now trying to leapfrog each other, instead of copying each other to the point of being indistinguishable.
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:16 am)With that same sort of logic why do you ride on 100 year old technology?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Electric
I know you are a strong advocate of full BEV’s and I respect that but really, lets try to keep away from silly comparisons.
The new Camaro is a fully modern car with styling cues that hint to a nostalgic time. I think it’s beautiful, and have several times said an EREV Camaro would be fantastic.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:25 am)I can almost see her garbage can lodged under the bumper….
+6
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:27 am)True enough. They rated the Vibe lower than the Matrix. It’s the same… freakin’… car….
-7
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:27 am)Don’t bash Kia, their quality has greatly increased from a few years ago. So much so i might add that Kia Quality exceeds GM in latest independent tests. You prolly still driving your fathers oldsmobile. hee hee.
-11
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:30 am)(click to show comment)
-1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:34 am)“…handed to Lyle”?
I’m guessing you missed the link to her full blog entry at the end of Lyle’s piece.
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:34 am)The Volt eats grapevine for breakfast and spits its hot asphalt in your general direction. woot.
-9
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:37 am)OMG, what has happened to GM. I thought they was turning it around. oh….snap.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:52 am)25,001
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:53 am)friggin dealers huh?
-3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:55 am)Way to cut your carbon footprint…..
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:56 am)I’m starting to wonder if they have something with looking at ebay sales…
There is absolutely no customer service but at least they are honest about it.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:58 am)I’m generally a patient person; didn’t used to be but it has come on with age. I’ve learned that good things take time and patience is a virtue. But this slow, creeping, plodding, trickling, thirsting, new product release approach is starting to feel like a death watch.
Maybe the Volt will be a good, solid car. Maybe it will perform admirably for 78% of the American populace. Maybe the price sticker won’t seem quite so shocking. Maybe it will surprise folks from Tennessee with how seamlessly it blends into our well-worn internal combustion culture.
And maybe I’ll be dead by then. I’m afraid that, by the time I can actually test drive a Volt, I just won’t care to do so because there’ll be something much more interesting going on at Honda, Toyota, BMW, Ford, and others. Maybe GM will be left standing on the pier, having once again missed the boat.
These are not the words of a GM hater. But, more and more, they are becoming the words of those “disappointed once again with the General”. Maybe this wasn’t the best approach…
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:01 pm)Me thinks oil is traded by the barrel that equals 42 gallons of OIL. This is a “virtual” barrel as you cannot go out a buy a 42 gallon barrel of oil. And NO we do not ship oil in the old 55-gallon drums. Oil Up.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:07 pm)A small clarification…. My wife was born in Knoxville so the whole family is very familiar with the city, but not its “mountains”, which San Francisco comes closer to having in both height & number. I find it odd that Alex Cattelan never mentions that Knoxville is about 20 miles from any real mountains such the Smokies, yet the photo she took is a dead ringer for numerous parking “overlooks” in the Smokies (or any of the adjacent national forests). The link below is a map showing Knoxville & its location wrt the mountains…..
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=knoxville+tennessee&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ADBF_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=fKGeSpvUJueOtgfZ8ImKCQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1
+4
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:08 pm)It looks like CR is being judged right here and it doesn’t look good for CR the way I see it .
It is about time somebody called them for their “Anti American” reporting .
+6
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:10 pm)An EREV Camaro….
OH, GOD YES!
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:20 pm)That’s a good look at the new hood. Makes the Volt appear a little wider. Similar to Pontiac. I think it looks good.
=D~
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:22 pm)lol….
how do they test it? Bash a Trolls head against it?
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:23 pm)I’m with you on this DonC.
The BMW concept really struck me as a means to show everything that is technology possible. One feature that stuck me as an example of this was using a “heads up display”. I’m not into luxury cars, so it could be that some really high end cars already have this as standard. However, I do know that this is a standard feature on various jet fighter aircraft.
If BMW were to offer that for even the cost of two Volts say $80,000 as a Tesla killer and commit to a 10 year 150,000 mile warranty I’d be shocked. There’s so much in that concept that the price would be astronomical.
What’s needed is an EV that the US and other consumers can buy, and the Volt is an excellent first generation shot at that. The BWM is a fantasy for people who’s other vehicles include jet fighter aircraft — arh yes – Maximum Bob comes to mind there!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:24 pm)Jackson,
If I was responsible for an IVER (basically a six figure value prototype) I’d likely park it where someone won’t slam it with their 5 foot long ’84 Camaro doors. No need to flame, but it’s sad to point out such stereotypes are still strong in our collective consciousness in 2009.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:25 pm)Only complicated with regard to the software controlling the Volt’s performance based on various demands. It’s an EV; i.e. electric motor with a battery energy source, plus a range extender ICE driven generator. You can’t get simpler than that. Fewer parts than a ICE vehicle. The complex part lies in the software to control the electric drive and internal workings of the battery pack. this may be an over simplified statement of whats in a Volt but when you try to break down a hybrid like the Prius, you can see how different the two are. The Volt design is KISS sweet next to straight ICE and hybrid vehicles. As you will find out when you own a Volt and see what maintenance costs are.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:26 pm)The Flan is a bit grumpy today…
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:30 pm)BTW, in the same photo I notice a long “whip” antenna (next to the standard GM OnStar/XM/etc stubby antenna). I wonder if one of the team’s 7 test vehicles has one or more multi-track data recorder(s) aboard to which the Volt (& any of the other cars) are transmitting multiple data streams, such as performance, efficiency & thermal data.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:36 pm)With advances in electric propulsion, you will probably see a few enthusiasts electrify the Camaro on their own. If one can electrify a Ford Ranger for around $10,000 and plenty of labor, the Camaro would be a nice job. The former has been done with lead acid batteries. With lithium-ion batteries looking like the next power source for EV,s, the price will drop to where the DIY conversion of ICE vehicles will be the choice over buying a new vehicle. At least until the price of EV’s drops considerably.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:36 pm)hermant: If by the time you can test drive a Volt, there is not “something more interesting going on at Honda, Toyota, BMW,” etc., will you change your opinion?
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:38 pm)ARGH! I live here and I haven’t seen this Volt anywhere.
KEEPING EYES OPEN NOW
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:42 pm)@ MRB
I don’t own a Baker Electric. What I do ride was first released as such in 2007, while the Camaro was first released in 1967, the middle of last century.
I’m not talking about the age of the underlying technology – I’m talking about the age of the brand/model/name original release date, a point about marketing.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:44 pm)BTW, the Appalachians are not rolling hills. While not jagged peaks many are >4000/5000 feet with treacherous curves and inclines. It is a very good test of hill performance. I sincerely doubt that any roads in the Rockies are significantly more challenging.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:46 pm)“and so far they are still failing”
________________________________________________________
how do you figure they are still failing? That’s an amazing statement!
In about a year, you will find yourself eating those words.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:47 pm)Yes, old fashioned cars, such as the Camaro on this thread, are easy to convert:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=94038
BTW, does a Camaro really have an awful CD of 0.43? You don’t think that GM has already been there, done that?
http://www.hybridcars.com/carmakers/chevy-volt-no-longer-electric-camero-0617.html
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:49 pm)I want to see it too…..in my driveway!
Zel
And Remember GM:
Jacksonville Fl, 54 mile commute round trip, 110v 20a plug at work to recharge and designated parking spot. Just saying I will volunteer. Really.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:52 pm)It is a sad reflection on various governments that health safety and environmental standards are so woeful when there are clearly better alternatives.
A couple of examples:
In the US you may note that Jaguars have the leaping cat on the front of the hood. That is totally outlawed in Europe. Think of it as a bacon slicer when it comes to pedestrians!
The UK adopted lead free petrol (gas) long after the US did.
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:53 pm)Let me guess, Consumer Reports, right.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:57 pm)I mentioned the Baker electric because it has about as much to do with your modern electric bike as a modern Camaro does with a 67 Zephyr. (Almost nothing)
There are a lot of people who ‘pine’ for the old days.
This is powerful marketing my friend.
Marketing by it’s very nature appeals to some and not to others, in the Camaro’s case you wouldn’t consider buying one anyway so the fact that it doesn’t appeal to you makes sense.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (12:59 pm)If there is anyone that I would give more to credibility in GM it is the engineers.
Typically I would believe what the engineers say, even when filtered through management. Even more so when they are not under any pressure to give answers, remember the blog entries are no mandated. Sure I would expect details that are less favorable to be omitted, otherwise they are vulnerable to being quoted out of context. So rather than lie or distort the truth I would expect omission of any negatives.
How many times have you seen press reports that take things out of context, or competitors use a reported negative to their advantage?
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:01 pm)The BMW concept really struck me as a means to show everything that is technology possible.
This seems accurate. The vision is of the engineers pulling every toy out of the technology box — like the double clutching automatic transmission — and then asking themselves: “How can we design the car so can we use this?”
But some technology seems advanced now but is probably destined for more general use as time goes on. I’d put the heads up display in that category. I think you can get this option now on at least one Caddy, and it seems like it would be quite useful.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:02 pm)I’m going with a CB, but your explaination is MUCH cooler!
I’d think the data would be gathered onboard and manually transfered to the support truck. There is no guarantee of security over wireless.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:05 pm)I hate to have to point this out, but they’ve probably moved to a geographical region, to tackle different tests, by now…
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:08 pm)True enough, but as a fairly long time IT type I KNOW how complicated control software can be.
Mechanically simple but with a very complicated operating environment which means complicated software.
it’s going to take time to kill the bugs.
Which is what Alex is doing now.
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:08 pm)“CR is fine. It tests what it tests”
Yes but i lost faith when they started to recommend cars as best buys without actually testing them…and they have…
That alone makes them biased and full of b***
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:15 pm)My bad. Yeah, it’s 42 gallons of oil in a barrel. It’s hard to say how much gasoline comes from a barrel since there are so many products, but let’s say half that.
Still a lot of gasoline but not significant in terms of world demand.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:16 pm)You need to realize that bringing a new model car to the market, is a long process. Buy a book on car production and find out what it takes. New cars do not come to the market over night or even in two years. First the car must be designed, a mock up made and tested in a wind tunnel. Then the machinery to make the vehicle must be produced; yet another lengthly process. When you realize all of various parts that go into a vehicle, you can begin to aprpreciate what is involved. Unless other OEM’s have begun their effort to produce an EV, it will take them considerable time to bring their models to market. From the looks of things going on, that is what is transpiring. Some OEM’s in their effort to jump on the bandwagon are targeting niche markets. Clearly, GM is looking at providing the majority of drivers with EV technology.
IMHO, they have been transparent in the Volt’s development and production with the purpose of developing the market for EV’s; too many people are negative thinkers and GM needs to get the populace’s electric propulsion understanding up to speed. So far, they have done everything to schedule and have good results. I would especially like to hear a report on the test results for Death Valley! Being from the deep south, where temperatures climb above 100 Fahrenheit, it is my major concern about Volt’s performance.
They moved ahead on EV production before the other OEM’s, so they shouldn’thave any problem producing BEV’s. With all the development they have done in the area of batteries and the testing of Volt’s electric drive, the rest is cake.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:18 pm)No EVO…
If you read your own reference it was the concept Volt with the poor aero number.
That’s why the production car looks different.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:33 pm)A new generation of HB LED video projectors have been developed for a reasonable price. ‘Heads Up’ display for a car might well be the ‘killer application’ that makes them an everyday feature. It would help to keep people’s eyes on the road.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:36 pm)You could well be right with the exception of the long grade climbs that the Rockies are known for.
There are a couple 20 + km long climbs on the way to my inlaws place (yes there are corresponding downhills on the other side). These climbs are long enough that even with a ‘full’ battery you would likely hit ‘depletion’ before you got to the top.
The car would already be in CS mode when it got to these big climbs. Rogers Pass, BC is a good example and is part of the Trans-Canada highway. http://www.britishcolumbia.com/regions/towns/?townID=3496
There are higher climbs of course, but this is the main east/west route through the Rockies in Canada so it WILL be covered by Volts as their owners head to the “interior” for the skiing/boating/golf/wine that is seasonably available there.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:40 pm)At first read, I admit I was kind of unimpressed, thinking, “Mountains?! What mountains, the Appalachians are like 3000 feet, aren’t they?”
I mean, I routinely drive through the Sierra-Nevada mountains and Donner pass on I-80 (the PASS!) is 7200 feet.
Sure enough, though, the Appalachians near Tennessee are much taller than they are say around the Virginias. Looks like they have some roads upwards of 6000 feet so that’s actually pretty good, then!
That’s plenty high enough to feel the effects of the thinner atmosphere on a normally aspirated engine. If it worked well at that kind of altitude, that’s a useful good piece of data.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:44 pm)I have less then 40 miles round trip each day and at least 1 trip over 150 miles each week.
The best part I drive right past the Milford proving grounds every day and can just stop in so they can get a look at it.
I would make a great test driver.
Oh ya did I say I LOVE GM!
If it came down to me or Lyle, I would do the right thing and give it up. (Hope I get extra points for that.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:53 pm)I agree. Jackson made my day with that little “come back’.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:54 pm)i disagree, focus people!!… you are simply struck by a CONCEPT, thats a bling bling symptom you can’t even afford… focus on the technology under the hood of the VOLT, the unmatch battery management system which is the heart of the EV technology…
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:57 pm)Just take it at face value. “Success” simply means it didn’t fail.
The devil is in the details… which we still don’t have.
Someday that will be provided. Until then, it’s promotion that may or may not meet the price, efficiency, power, etc expectations consumers are assuming… since there’s no detail available.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:57 pm)Maybe you think JCJ should, what, swim across the Atlantic? And just how do you get around town or the country. Walking, bicycling or jumping on your broom? Or maybe you just stand in the corner with your nose against the wall and click your heels while repeating: “Take me to Europe”? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:58 pm)I recently visited Knoxville, and I have to agree that it the area represents the Appalachian driving experience pretty well, based on the time I spent living in Southwest Virginia and making frequent trips to West Virginia. You’re cornering all of the time, which is a lot of fun — and fun that isn’t to be had out here in the Midwest.
In the Midwest, all you can do is accelerate, decelerate, and look at blurry corn. Some of the natives seem to think driving 100mph on a straight piece of road is exciting, but I’ve found it to be pretty boring compared to driving at any speed on a twisty-tourney road in the mountains with a rock-wall on one side, and a steep drop-off on the other. Not being a native Midwesterner is probably one of the reasons why I think a 4-banger is adequate, and that torque is more important than power…
Sep 2nd, 2009 (1:59 pm)I know, but there is always hope.
And I was just mentioning the Volt today at lunch, too. It would have been cool if it was in the parking lot…
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:02 pm)I’m sure they went to Clingman’s Dome (6643 feet) which would be quite a climb. And if they went to the dome itself it’s a very tiring walk. It’s like a 50 degree vertical climb from the parking area.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:07 pm)Jim I at 10:02 am,
Right you are Mr. Jim I!!
Car mags are grossly influenced by their advertisers too much, it seems to me. So I don’t bother with them at all myself.
A driving report from Lyle is what most people would look for if they want unbiased fairness. Which unbiased fairness he has absolutely proven to us with his reports on the Mini-E.
(back to work).
-9
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:07 pm)Just another Volt article about nothing. No numbers, facts, graphs or tables. More “feelings”, “intuitively”, “poetic fashion”, “enthusiastic”, “exciting” crap. Jeez… this is becoming next religion.
Just noticed Purdy Propoganda post 19. Could not agree more. If this is really GM Engineer talking about Volt, then GM is doomed.
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:08 pm)Cranky,
Since I was the one who used that phrase let me mention a thing or two. First, Lyle does not need anyone kissing up to him. Secondly, I don’t kiss anyone’s a$$. Never have and never will. But I do recognize the contribution Lyle has made towards getting the information out to us about the Chevrolet Volt and many other vehicles and technologies we are all very interested in. Let me ask you a very simple question I think even you in your denuded state should be able to answer. Question: What have you done lately to advance the cause of electrifying our personal transportation or reducing our petroleum usage? I know, it is not your responsibility for either of these two things, but it is also not Lyle’s. We all have some part to play in our collective future. Your contribution should be greater than some snide remark seemly intended to mock myself or Lyle. You did neither of these things. You just showed a side of yourself that you probably would prefer to not show.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:10 pm)Did any of you all notice the name “Danica” on the name?
I assume the author of the post is referring to Danica Patrick, the professional Indy-car driver — and spokesmodel for an Internet domain registration company that shall not be named. Methinks some British humor was intended, and missed, here…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danica_Patrick
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:19 pm)Yeah, Occam’s razor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:21 pm)On the trip to the Knoxville area that I mentioned, we drive the Prius. It does fine there. It’s not a sports car by any means, but it corners and climbs better than most of the cars I drove while growing up in a similar landscape on the other side of the range in Virginia.
The Prius engine at WOT is still quieter than quick-shifting a 4-banger into 3rd to climb a steep hill.
Yet another reason why I’m mystified that everyone seems to want multi-hundred horsepower drivetrains. I guess if the car’s overweight, you need it — but, for a 3000lb car, 110hp can provide a wild ride, provided the driver understands energy-management. Since I can be satisfied with 110hp in the steep environs of the Appalachians (including up-mountain merges onto the Interstate), I’m totally mystified as to why everyone seems to think that 300hp is necessary out here in the flatlands…
I’d love to see the same comparison — but my experience growing up in the Appalachians suggests that the skill of driver and the environment have a lot more to do with how a car feels in the mountains, than a few horsepower.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:21 pm)“All that GM Hate was earned and well deserved.”
Some of it was well deserved due to poor decisions by greedy GM management and labor, but not all of it. Some of it is 20 year-old headlines that people without car knowledge still believe. And some of it is the tilted playing field. The foreign competition enjoys a protected domestic market and tax subsidies to ensure that they have a consistent advantage.
GM can only do so much, no matter how hard they try. It is up to us (and our politicians) to make one-sided “free” trade into fair trade.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:28 pm)@ MRB
Fair enough. That certainly shows that I don’t know much about the Camaro, a brand name launched in 1967, or other vehicles that manage only 19 mpg combined but don’t produce maximum torque at 0 rpm.
You win…
+4
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:36 pm)But that’s the problem. CR claims to be objective. Surveying car buyers is anything but.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:39 pm)Well, if you *really* want to find out what it’s made of, there’s always Sebring. I doubt we’re going to see this thing in the 12 Hours of Sebring any time soon.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:45 pm)I also subscribe to consumer reports. I think they do a very good job for certain things. (Laundry detergent. Toothpaste. Etc.)
But cars are difficult to get an objective opinion on. As a result they use subjective methodology. I think they do the best they can though. And the methodology works–eventually. If GM and Ford keeps on making great cars, and eliminates the quality gap with the Japanese, I think the general consumer will catch on eventually. And so will consumer reports. It just takes time. And I’m not sure GM and Ford have that kind of time.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:46 pm)The only ones who are going to conquer us are us. As Pogo said so many yers ago, “We have met the enemy, and it is us.”
If we keep buying their s**tbox cars, we are going to get exactly what we deserve. No Toyotas, Hyundais or Kias in my garage, in this life or the next.
LJGTVWOTR!!
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:46 pm)In reading the full post on voltage.com, they mention that 7 volts were taken along this course. I would assume that the C.B. allowed all of the drivers to coordinate potty breaks etc, without having to rely on spotty cell phone coverage to keep each other informed.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:47 pm)Right on! +1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:50 pm)Really John… what else is success but the absence of failure?
It’s well known that the Volt could hit the ground with 60 miles AER with the AC blowing hard on full cold and then get 100 mpg in CS mode and you STILL would say the Prius is superior because it has a Toy badge on the hood.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:59 pm)I see a fellow engineer (I never heard of her and I’m not in the auto business) taking a lot of flak over this auto test story devoid of meaningful data. First off, her story certainly isn’t written for this column. Secondly, I hope her bosses are reading this. If so, here’s my message: Glance over the previous article today regarding Mercedes Blue Zero E-cell Plus (BZE) EREV. In short order the reader has more of a comprehensive understanding of the BZE in maybe two paragraphs than all previous VOLT articles. What’s more, in trying to decode the VOLT ER mileage a few days ago right here I applied the Smart Car 3 cylinder turbo as a benchmark … lo and behold that exact engine is the BZE ER power. The 3 cylinder 1.0 L turbo is rated 67 HP (50 kW) for a 373 mile range. And I’ll bet the ranch that 373 number is real and conservative.
GM ER plans, of course allowing for weight, must be … have to be competitive. FTR: I’ve driven (c.1964) those Knoxville roads several times- border to border.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (2:59 pm)Do you really believe any of that?
Success is many levels deep. The best way to look at it is based upon the grading system.
Volt could easily earn a “B” grade, by meeting all performance expectations. Earning an “A” though is the challenge. For that, the middle-market objective of price must ALSO be met. Otherwise, volume simply won’t be there for the mainstream.
It’s all about balance. Engineers thrive on technical achievement. We know they can be innovative and find ways to deliver on performance objectives. Squeezing that into a tight cost-restriction is an entirely different matter though. GM’s target audience is supposed to be joe-consumer, since that’s where a bulk of the profit can be made.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (3:00 pm)Now that’s an entertaining suggestion …
Actually, why don’t we fire them out of a cannon?
cue Mythbusters …
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (3:05 pm)RickW,
I suppose the Chevrolet truck that, who was it – NBC or CBS, blew up with explosives and tried to pass off as a gas tank exploding was rightly earned by GM? Sure, GM built some pieces of sh!t during the late 70s through to the early to mid-90s. But not every GM vehicle was bad. There were some very good vehicles even during that period that won prestigious awards even during the time when Toyota, Honda and Nissan were just barely out of the beer can sheet metal vehicles they foisted onto us. I owned a good number of GM vehicles during period from the mid-60s through the mid-to-late-90s. Every single one of them were good vehicles that gave me good service and never once failed me. Not once! I admit some of the fit and finish was not all that great, but neither were some of the foreign vehicles that I test drove. Better than GM, yes, but not anywhere as good as they (the foreign makes) are today. But GM and Ford make vehicles today that are tremendously better than they were 10 or 12 years ago. Every auto company has improved fit, finish and quality. If not they would not be in business today. I am just not in agreement with your views on this subject.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (3:08 pm)Now that’s what we are looking for.
I have a strong feeling that all the sudden “me too” electric competitors will be far less refined and “raw”. A flip if you will. Like GM was in the 80′s and 90″s compared to refined BMW and the like.
Nice work GM.!
Don’t forget the Converj, Buick Rivera, Next Gen Vette, Z/28
Sep 2nd, 2009 (3:13 pm)John1701a
See my post at #5
Then you must really like my idea of a 100 mile Tn. test of the Volt and a Prius [using Prius as the standard for all results]. The Volt will either get +’s or -’s. I think they will all be =’s except for price, and I tip my hat to Toyota for bringing a good, primarily ICE propelled hybred to market at a good price.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (3:16 pm)Hermant
Some of the frustration you are feeling is because the development of the Volt has been so open as compared to other vehicles in the past. In the past about the only time you heard about a new vehicle from an auto company was when it hit the show room or maybe some bad photos of a masked-up version of the vehicle out on some test site. We are getting information about the Volt in “bits and pieces” and it is like the “cut of a thousand blades”. You read a little about this or that and it whets your appetite for more information and it makes you frustrated when it is not forthcoming. Yes, we all feel some level of the same frustration. But hang in there. Back away from the site for a week, two weeks or whatever. Let your life go on without the Volt and maybe after a while check back in, but don’t spend too much time worrying about something you have absolutely no control over. I learned a long time ago not to worry about something that I could not do something about. It has made my life a lot easier.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (3:22 pm)DonC
She did not mention the ICE coming on either, did she? Oh, to be able to see those test and ride shotgun on most of them. That would be great. I won’t mention that GM should allow Lyle to ride shotgun on some of the test where the ICE comes on because someone might interpret that as kissing up to Lyle. lol (very quietly)
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (3:26 pm)Jackson
Well, you asked for it. I hope you have that flame resistant suit on. Such a sexist comment in today’s P.C. world. The audacity you must have. LOL…. Such reckless abandonment!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (3:28 pm)So you are going back to that well worn chestnut.
“Gen 1 is too much money so the whole program is a failure.”
I haven’t heard anyone say that the Gen 1 car was going to be truly mainstream. If they did then they don’t “get it”.
You can bet whatever body part you prefer that the engineers are working hard on the early gen 2 car already and they will be focusing on cost reducing to sell profitably the high 20′s low 30′s range.
Gen 2 will compete dollar for dollar against the Camry, Accord, Taurus and the like.
If that isn’t the objective then it bloody well SHOULD be!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (3:30 pm)reply to me
Dang it, I shoud have used the shift key +’s not =’s
Sep 2nd, 2009 (3:36 pm)Maybe you have a point EVO…
Maybe GM marketing should take your lead…
Change everythings name every couple years to keep it ‘fresh’ don’t bother to change everything EXCEPT the nameplate like you have with the Camaro… JUST change the nameplate!
Pure Genius!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (3:48 pm)That’s called badge engineering. GM already has a history with that. I’m not advocating that.
How about a fundamental improvement (such as a much more efficient drivetrain and propulsion method) AND a new name once in a while (say, once a century or so). Oh, that would be the Volt.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (3:57 pm)In all the discussions, I never hear people discuss the “heavy-duty ” 20 amp @ 110 v circuits. Every post 1980 home should have them for the kitchen and workshop, and sometimes the assumed entertainment area.
Typically these have a slightly larger wiring to the home circuit breaker to safely support the higher rating. I wonder if the Volt charger can be configured to absorb the higher amperage. Or simply detects the voltage and assumes a 15 amp @110 v circuit, and restricts its amperage draw to prevent tripping a 15 amp breaker?
If it does, it should reduce charging time by 25%
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:07 pm)At the current speculated price of $43,000.00, it’s definatel NOT for the regular Joe Schmo the plumber. Waaaayy… out of reach for him/her. It’s for the niche.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:07 pm)http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/09/prius-sales-outmuscle-muscle-cars-in-august.html
It outsold the sum of all three US automakers’ pony cars.
So, if automakers would just have their engineers use performance 100% electric drive for both increased efficiency and pony car (Camaro) performance they (and consumers) could have their cake and eat it too? Wait, I think we’re talking about the Volt again.
Triple halo = Volt
Performance (100% electric drive) pony car = Volt
Super efficient (100% electric drive) car = Volt
Practical car = 5 door hatchback = Volt
Bring on the singing angels.
+3
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:11 pm)If you had taken a minute to see all the improvements in the new Camaro (yes it’s a gas car, get over it) it gets excellent fuel mileage for what it is.
Nothing BUT the name remains in the new car. Yes it resembles the older cars in it’s line, there is nothing wrong with that.
Some people appreciate heritage and some want to plow it all down.
I LIKE and appreciate the heritage of the Camaro, and for one I am glad they are back.
While you are at it you better go off on Toyota for still building those crappy old Corolla’s, Volkwagen for STILL building Beetles… Caterham for still building the (Lotus) Super 7 (actually you’d have a point there, it’s almost unchanged from 1957, and still scary fast…), Ford for the Mustang (older than the Camaro too, 1964) I guess I could mention a little runabout called the Corvette as well. (1953)
There are plenty of other examples.
Boeing STILL makes the 737… (why? because it’s the most successful aircraft series in history that’s why)
The Volt and more specifically voltec drive is the next generation of the personal car. I’d like my voltec drive wrapped in a Camaro convertible body shell thank you very much.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:15 pm)“As I stood next to the Volt on top of a mountain last weekend, I felt overwhelmingly enthusiastic about its capability.
I’m confident that Chevy Volt drivers will feel invigorated like I do by its exciting, smooth, quiet, and fuel-efficient performance.”
GM engineer Alex Cattelan did sound kind of poetic and symbolic there. She and all the other GM engineers should feel really good about the Volt. They are LEADING the rest of the auto industry into a whole new world … electric drivetrains. GM is like the first person to climb Mt. Everest or the first to step on the moon. GM wants to “boldly go where no one has gone before” … like in the Star Trek TV series.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdjL8WXjlGI
GM will be one of the first to bring to dealerships a genuinely viable, somewhat affordable, MAINSTREAM car with an electric drivetrain. A car that will not be all that different from the cars we are driving right now. That is, until they realize how much $$$$ they are saving in their transportation expenses each month. Lots of other benefits too as we all know in this blog. The whole driving experience, the benefits to the environment, the benefits for “energy independence”, etc.
It looks like the rest of the auto industry sees the writing on the wall about GM’s extended range EV technology. It’s going to be huge. Mercedes has announced that they are going to build a flexible ER-EV powertrain a LOT like Voltec (which used to be called E-Flex). Mercedes will call their ER-EV technology the “E-Cell Plus”. Emulation is the sincerest form of flattery you know. GM should be proud.
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/09/mercedes_e-cell/
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:22 pm)Jackson,
That is exactly what I said. “CR surveys results (because they are more people’s opinion than facts) are always biased against American autos.”
And people’s opinions are shaped by a multitude of sources including CR.
+6
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:27 pm)“All that GM Hate was earned and well deserved.”
No. Anti-American, self-loathing is a learned response. It is inculcated by one wing of one of the political Parties and is partially snobbery and partially a cynical, purposeful tearing down of the country to advance the interests of their favored ideology.
After all, You can’t “Change” a country that is satisfied with its institutions. One ideology can find nothing good to say about virtually every American institution.
They criticize most every American institution. From the Doctors that cure us, to the drug developers and drug makers that develop the drugs to help us, to the Oil companies that provide us energy, to the electric Utilities that light an our homes,to the Miners who provide our needed raw materials, to the Merchants who provide efficient distribution of goods, to the Automakers, like GM, who provide us mobility, to the Military that defends us.
The only thing they never attack is the ambulance-chasers that suck our blood, as they are also drawn from those legal bloodsuckers, and receive substantial political contributions from that portion of the legal profession.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:38 pm)Yeah, but did she test the VOLT on the ‘hills’ of “DollyWood” ?
Them’s some mighty big hills!
Weeeeeeeeeee Doggeeees!
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:40 pm)There you go again.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:41 pm)Agreed.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:43 pm)I agree with that Mitch. It kind of did not sit well with me either. They were working strictly off their own biases and experiences with subscriber surveys from past years. Not a good way to do it.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:46 pm)You should be venting about it. Your parents should complain to the owner and write a letter to GM. I would not go back as long as I felt the quality of service was not up to standards. Good luck.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:52 pm)DonC
Not very nice dragging the republicans and some democrats into this. But since you have:
These laws are state laws and when they were written most state legislatures were probably controlled by democrats. I know my state legislature is strictly controlled by democrats and have been so since the end of Reconstruction (about 135 years or so). Not many republicans in either house and certainly not able to affect any laws or regulations put forth. We have only had two republican governors in that same time frame (all in the last 20 years). So, in my state and a lot of other states we can place the blame where it properly belongs.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:53 pm)Again you do it. Keep on and GM might listen. Good luck.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:54 pm)No, but let me adjust mine. Static is pretty bad the way it is on my head. OK, yeah, that is better. Voices? What voices? All I hear is …. STATIK!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (4:56 pm)I looked at their highest performance version. 19 mpg combined and no maximum torque at 0 rpm is weak compared to what I am used to. That’s not to say that they don’t compete well with other American full gasser pony cars.
Here’s your series electric drive range extended convertible pony car:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche_Mixte_Hybrid
Yep, that’s pretty much how I recall those American pony cars from the late 1960s and early 1970s.
Or if you prefer a more modern one, in the European style:
http://jalopnik.com/5129546/fisker-karma-s-sunset-worlds-first-hybrid-convertible
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (5:03 pm)If you brainwash a generation of subscribers that certain brands are intrinsically superior, you can hardly use only that sample to get unbiased results. CRs entire basis for review is the comments provided by their brain laundered readership. And of that readership, only the most smug and thoroughly laundered bother to report their “observations” that confirm their intrinsic superiority and wisdom as consumers. Proven by their long association and because they solicit the advice of CR.
It is hardly surprising what results
.CR ends up giving reviews that reflect its readerships carefully taught prejudices. This circular tautology is so statistically distorted that any competent lawyer worth his salt could make millions taking them to Court to defend their wholly unsupportable methodology. The “teeth” of these reviews provide the “Proof” and basis for opinions that directly harm many firms. Critics are free to be critics, so opinions are guilt free, but their purported polling “proof” of many product attributes such as reliability, quality etc. is guilty of many infractions, when done improperly.
As a matter of fact, are there any legal professionals willing to make a few million bucks or more ? I could testify as to the absurdity of CRs approach to obtaining an unbiased evaluation pool.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (5:20 pm)Time is always extended (esp. to GM) where the clear technological-advancement processes are transparent and successful. Since GM efforts are technologically paying off with these successful benchmarks that we all witness, there is not a strong comparison therefore of GM to Ford Motor Company.
It is more likely that Ford might be gradually left behind in the technological past, although I’m not really convinced that Ford is hurting all that badly either as far as technological effort is concerned.
It seems to me that when an OEM is striving with strong and dedicated efforts in technological advancement, (especially if there is a public sharing of the benchmarks), generally speaking the public consistently extends at least an equal measure of patience. GM is certainly not running out of time from where I see GM. The opposite, in fact, has been occurring, as I think most of us can begin to see. GM has established that time is increasingly on GM’s side with E-REV, and decreasingly on the side of the majority of other OEM’s to technologically-compete with E-REV. The above test drive improves that advantage just a little bit more.
The only impatience I generally have is for so called “technical publications” where there is not sufficient technical talent.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (5:27 pm)John.
Its obvious that you were never an engineer. What you say they don’t do, is exactly what engineers do do. Any knot head can spend a million bucks and build his own hotrod. Doing it for a competitive few thousand takes a a good engineer.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (5:35 pm)I live in Evergreen, CO (8,500 feet above sea level). I work in Boulder, CO (~5000 feet above sea level). I used to live in NC and spent a lot of time driving in the mountains in that state. There is no comparison. I drive a Honda Civic hybrid and usually arrive at my house with no charge on the battery (actually, there’s a charge, but it’s at a SOC that registers as “empty” on my dashboard). After leaving my house in the morning, within a few hundred feet I’ve fully charged the battery. Coming home from work, the battery usually empties shortly after I start the climb into the mountains (just outside of Golden, CO). At that point, I’m driving the most sluggish car on the highway and often I find myself in 2nd gear just to stay above 50 mph. If I were to buy a Volt, I would bet that I would not even need to charge it at night. I’ll bet that by the time I get to work, I would have filled up the 8 kwh on the battery just through regen coasting downhill (maybe that’s an exaggeration–I have no idea how to do the calculations required to figure that out).
On a side note, I often see mules and test cars with their weird zebra stripes and Mondrian-like stickers driving on I-70 near my house. I’m sure the car companies are testing the climbing abilities of their new models on this turf. I have been keeping my eye out for Volt IVers and if I see one, I’ll be sure to snap a picture and send it to Lyle.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (6:06 pm)On those few and far between occasions where I have to buy some liquid fuel for my Volt, I’d like to be able buy 2-3 gallons of algae biogasoline made by Sapphire Energy. “Algae gasoline” can replace “regular gasoline” because it it’s pretty much chemically the same … only it is derived from algae.
http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=21683
In 2011, I don’t care if I have to pay $5 a gallon for it. I won’t be needing too much of it. The algae “biogasoline” in my Volt tank is just an insurance policy in case I drive more miles than I expected to on a particular day without charging her up.
If some oil company doesn’t distribute Sapphire’s algae gasoline in my area, then maybe some enterprising small company will do it. It would be great to buy it from WalMart or Home Depot or something though. They sell gasoline and propane at these stores already, why not algae gasoline? They could just have small underground tanks next to the regular gas pumps at first and then bigger ones as more people start asking for Sapphire’s algae gasoline.
http://www.sapphireenergy.com/
Sep 2nd, 2009 (6:11 pm)Tell it Brother Stas! I totally agree.
Although the need to break our oil dependency has been obvious since 1973, the pain of the problem has to be more than the pain of the solution.
Many of our newest cities are architected around the automobile and represent a severe impediment to reducing our need for personal transport.
If we, accept that our cities won’t be plowed under and that people can’t be driven like cattle into settling into high-rises in range of existing mass transit, we need alternate personal transport and some form of right-of-way for transport routes.
We have a centralized power production and large distribution infrastructure but lack the final leg to a delivery node for the plug-in vehicle that is the most likely candidate to replace the gasoline ICE vehicle.
Since we are unlikely to adapt our lives and locations to the existing battery technology, the battery technology must be adapted to us. This means advancements in materials science and battery chemistry are critical to our goal of moving transportation to a new and better power source.
Let’s look at the advantages of the ICE that must be matched, exceeded or negated.
The high energy density of gasoline and diesel fuel per weight and volume gives us cruising range and torque across a whole range of transport applications. This makes oil an extremely compelling solution despite ALL of its disadvantages. This is true even when we consider how inefficient and ICE engine is at drawing all the possible energy from oil-based fuels. Even if oil never ran out it would still be a good idea to dump the Carnot cycle for something different.
But oil has a number of problems we are all well aware of:
It has a measurable impact on air quality.
The earth certainly will reach a maximum rate of production even if oil the oil we draw out were magically replaced and we were permitted to build the required number of refineries to turn it into gasoline.
If our self-hating, crypto-communist enviro-fascists are to be believed, using oil for transport and heating may even be affecting the climate in ways unfriendly to human life and our primarily coastal habitats.
Oil, strategic minerals and metals distort the moral compasses of both countries that have them and countries that need them. Like alcohol, drugs and human trafficking, oil corrupts us as well as our political and business leaders. Competition for resources has driven us to war for at least a thousand years. The death throes of 17th century colonialism and mercantilism delivered us into a modern era where even the oldest democracies are girded for battle.
Of the great resources clean water, arable land, energy, and living space, energy dominates all we do and bounds all we are capable of. With enough energy we could provide all the other required resources for any number of people.
Don’t distract yourselves with past performance, demand better and go elsewhere when it is not forthcoming. GM is perfectly capable of producing what is required. Quit whining and buy into the future for once. I say reward anyone that produces a reasonably-priced alternative to the ICE personal vehicle.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (6:17 pm)Great news! Wish I could have caught a glimpse of it while it was close to home!
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (6:26 pm)Being a Midwesterner, for the most part driving 100 mph on a straight road is not so much excitement but a response to the lack of it. If it were not a danger to others, I would still drive 120 mph to keep my sanity on long drives. If possible, I would drive even faster through Nebraska slowing only for the Rocky Mountains and the suburbs of Denver.
Fortunately, the entire Mississippi Valley provides ample opportunity to experience moderate curves and changes in elevation with selected opportunities to become airborne if safety were not an issue.
For me a V-6 is adequate, but a V-8 is way more fun and can be equipped with very responsive steering.
As a current resident of the rainier than advertised Sunshine State, I say gimme a drop-top Buick roadster with some of that awesome VOLTEC goodness under the hood.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (6:45 pm)Hey guys, I hope I can help from my perspective.
Getting all costs down for purchase is a good thing. But from what I see, the main problem from the perspective of *all* service departments franchised dealerships, as well as independent service shops out here in the field, is stated as this:
“We just can’t get good help”.
“Training is important but comprehension isn’t like it used to be.”
Here’s part of the deal. All brand new (happens every day at the dealership service department) technologies are so far ahead of the logical comprehension level of most people, that the very top three percent of human beings with an IQ of 127 or more are offered higher paying jobs in plush offices that are air conditioned, with nice benefits, and on and on.
The problem in part is that we need gifted people that are logical-hemisphere dominant (that’s the left one, and those techs are the ones I seek out to train), but we must pay them more to be willing to work in service bays that (as have been here in Austin) 105 degrees to 118 degrees, on engines that are hotter still, with them getting cut, burned, subjected to carcinogenic greases and chemicals, getting occasionally yelled-at by frustrated customers, and on and on (you get the picture).
Why would any sane gifted individual do that when he or she can get a nice plush job?
*********************************************************
NOT AS LIKELY GONNA HAPPEN FOLKS!
**********************************************************
So, here we are, demanding OEM’s sell a kajillion extremely hi tech vehicles a year, and then, ( I know you don’t do this, but I hear this several times a year):
After neglecting for several months a check engine light, a customer says:
“I have to be in Dallas (4 hours away) in 4 and a half hours, and I need you to tell me how much it will cost me to fix the check engine light, promise me it will be safe, and get the gas mileage up where it should be because I have very little money to waste during this trip if you don’t do your job right”.
“And, my uncle is a lawyer”.
What gifted and trainable individual would work under that pressure? (THAT’S why there are service writers). What the truth is, is that the people who are that gifted do not know that they are, and they just put up with it.
(And I am always highly honored and proud to train everyone that puts up with all that pressure in these terrible conditions).
Walk a mile in that techs shoes and, in these 105 to 118 degree service bays here in Austin, Texas, you would call me crazy for asking you to. I will see the shops and service department sides of things every hellish day I go out to work in those HELLISH bays (after posting here each morning) with those
**********************************************************************
EXTREMELY PATIENT AND DEDICATED PEOPLE!
**********************************************************************
I think that when the general public does not know these things,
****************
it is shameful,
****************
and, wouldn’t it be easier to be aware of how awful the conditions are in many of these service bays, have some charity for those techs, if not an an extra christian effort to patience here?
Your new vehicles are so overloaded with the newest stuff that has not any previous failure-characteristics for techs to go on, especially when ANY new design is the issue, even the supposedly simpler ones. The patience of Job is required nowadays.
Please give these people a break folks. These outrages are not as reasonable-to-a-standard as used to be in simpler times.
As a matter of fact, you could instead consider giving some sort of tiny kind small consideration of some sort to the tech (a “thank you for working on my car in this awful heat”) for their suffering so much at times in this summer heat.
“It’s their job” you say? Well fewer and fewer want that job!!!
The law of supply and demand supplies excellent techs to people who get to know them and treat them respectfully.
Anger impedes logic. (Try to find your misplaced keys when you are frustrated in not immediately finding them).
Mistakes happen from the untrained, but more likely in new technological situations that are unfamiliar to service. (Expect more of that), but don’t get a stroke over it. It helps greatly to be bluntly honest. “I had the check engine light on for two months but didn’t have any funds available to take care of it.”
“Fine, let’s see what we can do for it, let you know, get your “green light” and fix it, and get you on your way”.
The fault lies in technological complexities or new unusual designs more than it does with the people who are working on your vehicles. That’s why I ask folks to not take these errors as if it were a personal attack. Especially if techs are working in conditions that are at “heat stroke” bay temperature level, and they have made an error on your car in the scalding-hot afternoon.
-7
Sep 2nd, 2009 (6:48 pm)GM and Chrysler will die sooner or later. As for Ford, they may be able to recapture 25% market share!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (7:04 pm)Engineers working for a big business are rarely allowed that kind of freedom. There’s always a set of criteria established by upper-management.
For example, gen-1 must deliver a 40-mile AER regardless of price. Worry about price reduction in gen-2.
The same is true for software programmers too. Deal with optimization in the next upgrade.
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (7:13 pm)CR seems to measure every vehicle as if it was competing in the mid-sized sedan market. I laughed when they gave a “not recommended” rating to the Tundra because it has a rough ride and poor fuel economy (but no mention of GVW, towing rating, torque, ground clearance, etc.). They liked the F150 better than the Ram because of the smoother ride (even though the Ram had more payload!). Perhaps if they would show some understanding of the intended purpose of the products that they evaluate, then they would have more credibility with me.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (7:18 pm)The point is, the Camaro is a totally new GM development that is just now being released. Its development cycle is a reference point.
Just because this new vehicle shares the name and shadow of a 40 year old vehicle means nothing in modern development times.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (7:18 pm)It must be working pretty well then!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (7:19 pm)Yeah, the famous bumps will really sort out the suspension, LOL.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (7:26 pm)When I was a freshman in engineering school in 1961, we took a class called Engineering 101, “Introduction to Engineering”. I will never forget the first day. The Dean, Alfred C. Ingersoll, stood up and said, “An engineer is a person who can do for $1.00 what any layman can do for $1.75.”
Thanks stas, for bringing back a great memory and an eternal truism.
+2
Sep 2nd, 2009 (7:35 pm)Yaay-Yuh! Put your hand on the Lithium Power Cell and feeh-ull the POWER-uh. It is the POWer of the ALLmighty VOLT-uh!!! Yaay-Yuh, brother… It is the new religion of the NEW-uh GM…! Praise be!
ALL you BLASS-feem-ers BEWARE! The VOLT is a comin’… SHo’ as there’s a heaven above!
Can I get an AMEN?!!!!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (7:46 pm)Tell me about it. I carried my 3 y/o daughter most of the way up!
She’s ten now, and I don’t think I could do the same now with her little sister… lol.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (7:53 pm)I see in the image that she used a radio transceiver in the Volt. There is an antenna on the roof. As a Ham-radio operator I would ask, “Was there any interference or electrical noise created by the Volt that had a negative effect on radio reception? Was there additional static, pulsing, buzz or other problem that she noticed?”
73′s,
Glen – Awaiting my Volt.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:01 pm)AMEN!
+1
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:07 pm)Well put stas!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:19 pm)Good reply Noel!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:38 pm)Oh Volt, where art thou?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDd_ryixqyA
(watch as “big GM Dan” gives a lesson)
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:40 pm)I feel GM is taking a lot of risk the way they are going. It would have been much better to get a few dozen vehicles to real customers – get their inputs before starting mass production.
Detroit needs to find a quicker way to develop cars and put them on the roads. Otherwise some nimble new comers will over take them. The industry is going through a major change and thats the time new comers can leapfrog to the front.
+6
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:43 pm)LRGVProVolt;
I disagree that the Volt is less complex than any other modern car. It will be somewhat more complex given the battery, electric drive motor, electronic controls. Battery cooling systems and software, etc.
The only major component the Volt lacks is a multi speed transmission. In all other regards it is at least somewhat more complex than a typical car.
The engine still has a multi-port fuel injection (or even direct injection), with an electronic control module, a multitude of sensors and relays, catalytic converters, etc. Basically all the OBDII compliant parts that make attempting any type of engine work almost impossible for the do it yourself types like me. A fully electric battery powered car is less complicated, but the Volt isn’t. That doesn’t make it bad, but it doesn’t make it simple either and there are bound to be teething problems for the first buyers.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:46 pm)Amen, brother!
Someday we will be driving heavenly streets of GOLD charged with electric power! No rust or dust to gum up the electrical contacts when getting the power from those streets!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (8:55 pm)Can’t agree with you more Dan.
It seems more and more that youngsters expect good paying jobs without any sweat and toil. Seems to me that that dealer is cutting corners with customer service. However, mistakes at the dealership over double deductible payments are inexcusable. In the last year, down here in the Lower Rio Grand Valley, I’ve noticed better treatment of customers in the stores, and banks. I wonder what the dealerships are doing about customer satisfaction as far as training of their employees. MuddyRoverRob’s parents should definitely let the dealership’s owner know about their problem.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:17 pm)Anyone out there can correct me if I’m wrong on this one! Please!.
Regen captures the electrical energy of the magnetic field as it collapses upon slowing down. Going down a hill would still require energy into the motor windings and consume some of the electrical energy in the battery. Regeneration only recovers some of the initial energy so you wouldn’t end up with more than when you started. It is one advantage that electric propulsion has over internal combustion engines but there are losses along the way.
The problem is with going up the mountain; there enormous amounts of energy are consumed that can not be recovered. Once the battery charge is depleted the only recourse is the range extender and stopping to recharge the battery.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:25 pm)GM needs to test the vehicle under as many different conditions and places so people living there will see how the Volt will perform for them. I applaud their plan to have 500 vehicles in the hands of consumers to demonstrate to people in those locals the Volt’s technology. GM would be smart having them at the raceways for all to see!!!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (9:39 pm)Your numbers are WRONG! Go back and look again! LOL
Who cares about comparing last year to this year??? We’re in a recession !
GM sold more vehicles than Toyota in August. That’s the GOOD news
Goof!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:00 pm)T. Boone Pickens, the King of Dry Wells, said that the likelihood of finding oil on the continental shelf is not very good except for the Gulf of Mexico. This is only one well and this find may not proof to have significant impact on total petroleum production. Mexico’s Gulf wells have reached peak and are declining in production.
As you say, Jackson, we need oil for other uses, and with peak production having passed, we need to conserve what is left, not waste it by driving our ICE(HOT) vehicles. If new homes were built for sale with Solar panels installed, the demand will increase production with the resulting lower prices needed to make this method of producing electricity economical and competitive with coal burning plants.
New Green home builders are including solar in the construction of new homes. Home owners of structures would find adding Solar very cost effective especially if they own an EV.
At the height of gasoline prices, T. Boone Pickens claimed that we would spend $700 Billion per year. The answer to controlling our National deficit is switching to a new economy based on electricity. Our nation is blessed with the best wind corridor in the world, from West Texas up to North Dakota, The switch over to a Green economy using wind and solar power will create new jobs and lower our spending on foreign oil. Hybrid’s, EREV’s, and BEV,s are the pathway to independence from foreign oil. We should move to this technology as fast as we can and save what oil is left for more important uses. Here, I am in complete agreement with you, Jackson!
GM is on the right path to corporate recovery and helping recovery of the nation. All of their research in bringing us the Volt will pay off in their future designs of pure EV’s. When the demand for them exists, they too will provide us with good looking, high quality pure electric vehicles; they will be very competitive with foreign OEM’s!
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:07 pm)I am plugging for a plug-in!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Zel
And Remember GM:
Jacksonville Fl, 54 mile commute round trip, 110v 20a plug at work to recharge and designated parking spot. Just saying I will volunteer. Really.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:32 pm)As I said in previous post above, anyone, please correct me if I’m wrong!
You will not charge the battery by regen. Regen only recovers magnetic energy in the motors windings as you slow down; the magnetic field will collapse since not as much energy is needed to keep the motor revolving. This energy must be channeled somewhere or the motor would be destroyed. The circuitry is designed to send this current back into the battery in the correct direction,; thereby recovering some energy. The real benifit of regen occurs when you come to a stop. The full magnetic field energy is channeled back to the battery with exception of electrical loses due to resistance in the wiring circuitry. The motor will still require energy from the battery or the ICE/generator as long as you are moving. Regen will not recharge your Volt battery.
Under the driving conditions, you experience, you will find that the battery pack will provide energy sufficient to drive for under the 40 miles normal AER. But you will have to charge the pack over night. You can’t get away from that if you want the benefits of power from the battery pack.
The Volt will use the ICE generator with some assist from the battery pack to traverse the hills. It would be interesting to see GM test a Volt along with a Prius, Honda Civic, etc. (foreign EV or hybrid) for true comparison of the competing technologies.
Best of luck in the future.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:41 pm)I have been driving a Camry for some years now. God willing it will last until I can buy a Volt. If I can’t afford the high price of a Volt, my next choice will be the Cruz. No more foreign cars in my garage.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (10:52 pm)Once attended a Bearing Seminar in Phoenix ( of all places to have a bearing seminar – lol). The heat was terrible. Locals told me stories of driving up on the plateau to get relief; only about ten degrees less.
Here, in the Lower Rio Grande Valley, the temperatures don’t get as high; still above 100 degF for several consecutive days. I am hopeful Lyle can get an interview with someone testing the Volt in Death Valley. These reports on the locations where GM is testing give us a good sense of real Volt performance rather than lab tests. Seeing is believing!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:04 pm)Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!! At first, I didn’t like the looks of the fender change. but when I saw this picture, I change my mind. I like it!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:11 pm)Mass production doesn’t start for another 14 months.
I’m sure next Summer there will be a lot more feedback from ‘real customers’ and journalists.
GM is working on the CS mode for another year, along with the ongoing battery testing, and working on setting up the factories by analyzing the pre-production vehicles.
Their plate is pretty full.
Sep 2nd, 2009 (11:13 pm)Sounds like a sweet opportunity Alex!
I’m from the hills of TN…so I can picture the scenic part of it. Based on the picture here, the tree leaves are not changing color yet. You should go back in a few weeks to enjoy it.
Hopefully, you got to use some of the TVA hydro electrical energy for the ride.
Sep 3rd, 2009 (2:09 am)Erkel
Sep 3rd, 2009 (5:17 am)Well said, N. Riley.
Cranky was is bit out of sorts, I think.
I don’t kiss a$$ either. Well, sometimes I have to kiss my wife’s when she tells me too, but that’s another story.
Sep 3rd, 2009 (12:41 pm)I sure would like to cut the travel-times, but the vehicle I drive get lousy mileage at that speed. I’m also not prepared for the flak I’d receive from the constabulary for staying about 100mph for hours at time. I’ve proven mathematically and experimentally that speeding doesn’t get me there faster unless i keep it up…!
Other than that, I really like my new home in the Midwest. It’s a great place to live! We moved here for a job and so that my wife can attend graduate school, but the quality of life has been a wonderful surprise for both of us. We’ve been totally lucky when it comes to the details of setting up our new life here, though.
Sep 3rd, 2009 (2:29 pm)Agreed.
I live in Fort Collins, Colorado; an hour drive north of Denver. If I take a Volt skiing, I will have used up all of the battery by the time I make it to Denver (50miles) and then head up into the mountains. Denver is 5280 feet and Eisenhower Tunnel is a tunnel that cuts through the mountains at about 13000 feet on I-70. Then it goes back down hill into Summit county and some of the best skiiing in the world.
I am curious how the Volt will do in that situation (already at minimum SOC then big uphills in front of you). Will the regen be able to keep up as I use up the reserve battery to keep the car going near the speed limit (60 MPH) up this hill?
Sep 3rd, 2009 (3:56 pm)Jackson,
It would be
nicegreat to get some third party quotes too.
Sep 8th, 2009 (7:34 pm)If anything, the shift to OBDII compliant cars makes fixing cars far easier.
Pull the code, replace the indicated part and you’re on your way.
Sep 8th, 2009 (11:52 pm)CR asks its members (including me) to fill out a detailed survey asking what specific problems we’ve had with our automobiles. That seems a useful methodology for determining reliability. Do you think all the Toyota owners lie because they’ve been brainwashed to think Toyotas are great cars? It’s a lot better than the apocryphal reliability findings of auto journalists driving a fleet car and occasionally borrowing one for a long-term test. Random surveys are better still, but would be prohibitively expensive, and JD Powers seems to sell a huge range of confusing awards to manufacturers rather than give consumers their raw data.
As for lawyers, it’s the other way around. CR found the Sharper Image Ionic Breeze doesn’t work nearly as well as a HEPA fan filter, despite subjective bias of all the people who bought it and thought it was great. The result: “Court Dismisses Sharper Image Lawsuit against Consumers Union.”
CR has led me to buy several cheap overlooked appliances, though I supplement with Amazon reviews.
Oct 16th, 2009 (7:21 pm)I second the question. Add cell phones and other wireless stuff to that.