AND 
Mercedes BlueZero E-cell Plus Extended-Range Electric Car to go into Limited Production in 2010
Word is out that Mercedes will also be entering the extended-range electric car arena. The automaker has apparently confirmed it will be bringing an extended range electric car into limited production next year.
The car was described in concept form initially in January of this year, and now will be brought as a showcar version to the Frankfurt Auto Show later this month.
The Blue Zero E-cell Plus, as its known, is built off an A-class platform and has an 18 kwh lithium ion battery pack sandwiched into the floor.
There will be a 62 mile all-electric range and a 67 horsepower 3 cylinder 1.0L turbo gas range extender. The gas engine is taken from the Smart car.
The 70 kw electric motor can propel the car from 0 to 60 in 11 seconds and has a top speed of 93 mph. The car can be fast-recharged in 30 minutes and is front-wheel drive.
Total driving range will be 373 miles.
Mercedes says the car is “near series” production and will be offered as one member of a triad of cars. The BlueZero E-cell is the pure electric version with 112 mile range, and the BLueZero F-cell uses a hydrogen fuel cell.
Source (Auto-Motor-Und-Sport) via (Autocar)
115 Responses to “Mercedes BlueZero E-cell Plus Extended-Range Electric Car to go into Limited Production in 2010”
Leave a Reply
Recent Posts
- New York Times Report on the Chevy Volt Generator Mode Driving Experience
- CNBC Test Drive of the Chevy Volt in Charge Sustaining Mode
- Chevy Volt Will be Able to Hit 104 MPH
- Chevy Volt and Battery Program Update
- GM to Announce Initial Volt Markets at LA Auto Show
- Coalition of Industry Leaders Releases Roadmap to get 120 Million Electric Cars on US Roads by 2030
- Op-Ed: GM Reports a $1.2 Billion Loss, but Has the Cash To See Volt Well into Production and Beyond
- Three Chevy Volt Paint Color Finalists Announced
- What BMW Has Learned from the MINI E Program So Far: That They May Need to Build EREVs
- GM: EVs are Cool, but EREV’s are Really Cool
Recent GM-Volt Forum Posts
- Hacked e-mails reveal global-warming fraud? November 20, 2009This is how open minded liberals operate. "And, perhaps most reprehensibly," Delingpole writes, "a long series of communications discussing how best... […]BigCityCat
- Is the Volt Engine Direct Injected? November 20, 2009I recently read that the Cruze's engine will be DI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_Cruze#Chevrolet_Cruze Obviously the Cruze's engine will... […]omnimoeish
- First Reports of the Chevy Volt's Charge-Sustaining (Generator) Mode Operation November 20, 2009The first two journalists' reports of what it's like to drive the Chevy Volt while in generator mode operation have been published. 1) New York... […]admin
- Florida giving $5000 rebate to convert Prius to plug-in November 20, 2009- Probably Hymotion - $10,400 standard price - $5000 state rebate - $1000 additional federal incentives - $4,400 final cost. Hurry because their... […]Texas
- New York Times CSM story November 20, 2009Link to the New York Times story of November 19, 2009 about a test ride of the Volt in charge sustaining... […]srschrier
- New video: Volt drive in Detroit November 19, 2009November 19, 2009 Detroit Free Press story with video featuring a Volt drive with Andrew Farah in... […]srschrier
- New Video: Volt Corrosion Testing November 18, 2009From GM VoltAge, the Volt's corrosion... […]srschrier
GM-Volt.com is not affiliated with General Motors Company
All contents copyright 2007-2009 GM-Volt.com, LLC - All Rights Reserved
Home | Contact | Privacy Policy | About | Back to Top
September 1st, 2009 at 7:55 pm
How big is the gas tank?
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 8:00 pm
You have to wonder how much THEY will be asking for this. I suppose north of $40K by a bit.
You can really start to see what GM has started here. Good on you GM.
Steve
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Design-wise it’s shockingly very Chris Bangle.
Not too sure what I think about the plastic wrap on the rear tire well.
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Wow. Seems that other car makers now see the market potential for E-REV and will bring these cars to market.
What concerns me about the Volt is the limited numbers they are talking about for 2010 and 2011. Only 10,000 units in 2011? Toyota sells more Prius’s than that in a month. GM will be selling the Volt in such small numbers, they’ll likely come with dealer markups..
GM needs to stop worrying about things like infrastructure. I’ve got an outlet in my garage. That’s all the infrastructure I need. The ICE is there so I don’t need to worry about the infrastructure while traveling.
GM should be focussed on production quantities and the economies of scale this brings. The Volt could become a mainstream vehicle.
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Is that a tachometer I see on the dash. What would be the point of a tachometer. I assume the volt does not have one.
Peter M
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 8:52 pm
This tells me two things.
1. The Volt has a very good thing going. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
2. 18Kwh = 62 miles AER, but Volt (usable) 8kWh = 40 miles AER. Ergo, the Volt is more efficient.
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 9:02 pm
One has to wonder how much of their 18kwh pack they intend to hold in reserve. Since the vehicle contains an engine, under US law, it must meet a 10 year 100,000 (or is it 150,000) mile warranty. If they address this the way GM did, I don’t see how it can have such a high AER. Half of of the Volt’s 16kwh pack is 8, half of the Mercedes concept’s is only 1 kwh more. Are they this confident in battery performance to allow a larger percentage of the pack to drive the vehicle? Perhaps this is actually a sign of just how far in the future meaningful production could be.
I have to admit I’m a sucker for a good hatchback; though I doubt very much that this car will have a ‘hatchback’ price.
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 9:10 pm
A German made car rated at 93 mph top speed? Wonder which market this one is aimed at?
Good to see another participant step into the extended range electric car party. Japan vs Germany vs USA vs India vs Korea. Which manufacturer will dominate the EREV market?
My guess is the one who offers a clean, simple, and efficient EREV car and an EREV truck at the magic $30,000 mark.
=D~
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 9:37 pm
Perhaps it’s actually a “Tech-ometer.”
“Ooo, look! I’m really cool now …“
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Love the hatchback. One of my favorite layouts if the seats fold properly.
Love the EV range.
Disappointing acceleration times. Though I rarely get on the go pedal, these cars have to be done right so that when you give rides to others they have little to disparage.
I highly doubt they will get this to market next year though. And we’ll see which market gets this limited run. Somehow I doubt it will be the U.S. since major model releases are usually sold close to where it’s engineered the first year.
Though if they do come to the U.S. market before the Volt I would highly consider it. To me first come first bought is a plus for me as I am tired of my gas only car.
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 10:31 pm
It is a Benz, so expect it to be expensive!
So how limited is the production run for this one? I think that 10K units for the Volt is a very limited run…
And how exactly are they going from concept to production in less than two years????
Something doesn’t add up on this one.
But one thing is correct – GM has got it right! E-REV is the right idea!
Go GM! – Go GM Volt Team!
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Does that mean the Volt will be the #3 or #4 EREV to come out now? Oh boy, looks like GMs long development gambe is not going to pay off.
A 63 mile electric range sure is nice though. Thats almost in the territory of some BEVs,
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 11:15 pm
i don’t think they have similar battery management system that last for ten years like the volt…i simply see it like an EV with a built in generator , and a very expensive brand written all over it,..
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Did they say all 18kwh is usable ? That is a bad assumption – since no automobile manufacturer will have 100% of battery energy.
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 11:23 pm
5 miles / kwh (i.e. 200 watts per mile) is a good assumption in city driving. So, I think for 62 miles AER they will be using around 12 KWH or 66% of the battery. I think that is a good number. I think GM is being too conservative with their 50% – or their battery isn’t that good.
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Eleven seconds to 60…..and over 40K. Not a good sounding combination.
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 11:26 pm
If a Chevy PHEV costs $40K – how much will a Benz cost ?!
—-
It is a Benz, so expect it to be expensive!
—-
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 11:30 pm
The Volt’s limited numbers become a self fulfilling prophesy, GM says only 10k the first year, the dealers say “Oh goody! Mark that puppy up!” and low and behold, only 10,000 people with lots of money to burn show up to buy one.
I’d like to think that GM’s reasoning for only 10k is that they believe that they can only get that many battery packs out in a year, but the cynical side of me says that they aren’t all that committed to the electrification of the automobile. That they are more interested in a high value, exclusive green machine for PR and halo sales effect.
I agree with your statement on GM’s focus. I think that the “new” GM should be telling us that they will be ramping up to be cranking out as many Volts as possible the first year and every year, rather than telling us that there will only be 10,000, so get you A listing greenies get your wallets out.
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 11:31 pm
I fully agree in principle, but in reality, the sale of the Volt at $40k for 2010 and 2011 is a marketing stunt and I can’t really blame them – Each car is sold at a loss, so they dare not produce many more than the 10k units until costs come down. Once this has happened, then you will see larger quantities. I also expect huge mark-ups on the Volt at dealerships, and expect long waiting cue’s to get one.
In Truth, GM has spent so much time developing the Volt, it was clear advertisement to other auto companies of what will be here in 2010 and how to be prepared. The limited production numbers also assists manufactures from not having to directly compete on a large scale too, allowing an extra year or two to respond in any form of high numbers.
Plug-in cars for 2010 and 2011 are a token effort because the cost of manufacture will prohibit margins. We won’t see real introductions on a mass scale until 2012.
In any case, it’s good to see another manufacturer entering the EREV game.
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 11:35 pm
I agree. This car from the photos is clearly a concept show car, not a production ready car. It looks to be where the Volt was over a year ago. If they get any of these out to the public in the time frame they have suggested, it will be more along the lines of the Mini-e limited prototypes than actual cars for sale.
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 11:36 pm
Based on the color scheme, Duracell must be the battery cell/pack supplier.
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 11:36 pm
______________________________________________________
This Mercedes EREV will be a huge Home Run for Mercedes…
Welcome to the Electric Car Revolution Mercedes!!!
More photos:
http://www.carbodydesign.com/gallery/2009/07/13-mercedes-benz-bluezero-concept-updates/2/
______________________________________________________
(Quote)
September 1st, 2009 at 11:58 pm
Apparently, it holds about 290 miles worth of gasoline.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 12:01 am
This car as it stands is only a design concept exercise as I see it .
The doors for one thing aren’t bug enough for the fat American body to get into and back out without a real effort .
The car would have to be at least six inches longer for bigger front doors .
The overall design looks good except for that big star in the center of the grill , that is over sized if anything is .
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 12:37 am
Agreed! Simply a “me too” statement from MB
Since it’s getting such a late start, I cant see it being in any showrooms until Spring 2011 at the EARLIEST and perhaps that’s pusing it. Saying 2010 is a pipedream, unless it’s been in top secret developement for like, 18-24 months.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 12:59 am
Good to see another company get into the EREV market. Can’t have too many players.
But Mercedes is poorly positioned to compete in this space. In order to be profitable it has to make premium cars, and this is not a premium car. It would have been better off coming out with a Model S/Karma/Converj vehicle — very upscale and priced accordingly.
You also have to think that, after needing Tesla to help with the development, that they are far behind GM in technology. If this car uses the Tesla laptop battery packs you can put a fork in it.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 am
They must have broken GM’s patents on the Volt, no way they could have come up with all this new stuff so quickly.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:29 am
Very well stated. I wonder if GM has plans for limiting excess dealer mark-up and if these plans exist, will they have any effect?
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:31 am
Which one dominates the ICE market?
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:58 am
….concepts are quick…buying technology follows…
if MB wants to go around patented EREV technology, 2015 would be the production year…
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:23 am
Interesting photos. They have a PHEV, pure EV, and EV+fuel cell? layouts.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:29 am
For theses 2 cars we need compare them like that to determine witch one is the much heavier:
– the battery for the Leaf
– the battery + the gas engine + electric generator for the Volt
The Volt battery is smaller and lighter than the Leaf battery.
Anybody have the answer?
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:47 am
Everyone keeps talking about GM patents, but I don’t think any of us know for sure what is there yet. And it seems the serial hybrid (or EREV it’s now called) approach has less technology that can be patented. Mechanically, the series configuration is probably less complex than a parallel-series implementation (think about it, the ICE is not even mechanically connected to the wheels anymore, which simplifies a lot of things), it’s just the extra software, tuning, and testing that is taking up a lot of development. I’m not that surprised about the speed at which competitors are copying the idea (BMW is another one). Of course these are just concepts, so they may not even have a working model yet, but a good example is Fisker, a smaller company that seems to have gotten a working implementation (with the help from Quantum Technologies) at around the same time frame and with much less resources.
Daimler isn’t necessarily that far behind: remember in the traditional automaker world, you don’t know about progress of technology developments until it is almost ready to launch. It’s just GM is taking a transparent approach with the Volt, but I don’t think any of the major automakers are doing the same (they have more stuff ready behind the scenes).
Daimler has their in house work too, for example even though they are using Tesla packs, they designed their own drivetrain in the Smart EVs. They also have a battery deal with Evonik. And Daimler certainly has their fair share of engineers, esp with Mercedes’ history.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 5:26 am
Agreed, and it is ugly too.
At least the Mini E, Volt, Fisker, and Tesla look great.
But coming from Mercedes, I would expect something much better looking that this thing. Especially for the price they are going to charge.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 5:29 am
Agreed. It sort of makes me happy they won’t be selling them anywhere near me. It will just be a tease anyway as the price will be totally out of reach with dealer gouging.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 5:47 am
It’s smart (no pun intended) for them not to fall too far behind GM. If the E-REV concept becomes popular, which is very possible, they don’t want to let GM have all the fun. Do they?
1) Those clear plastic rear-wheel aero covers are a cool idea, until there is ANY dirt or water on the road. Then it will foul immediately.
2) They just had to put in a few more kWh just to be ahead of GM.
3) The 3 cylinder ICE turbo is a nice touch.
So, it’s basically a concept car that is not a full program with complete backing of upper management. Therefore, it’s at least a few years behind the Volt.
Nice looking vehicle and the more competition the better.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 6:14 am
This was a really great read, I am very glad I came across your site.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 6:30 am
All 18kWh usable? – Good question EVO! Nobody has that answer yet so there will be many more interesting blog posts on the Mercedes “EREC” over the coming months.
I’m just glad that yet another car maker has announced their EV plans and is heading for actual production.
In answer to an above poster who felt GM may be limiting Volt production on purpose so as to make the Volt nothing but a “halo” vehicle, that would be a fatal mistake for them financially. Their competitors are not holding back and neither should GM.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Funny quote of the day: “The past tense of BING is BUNG”
- Chris DiBona
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 6:31 am
I wonder what David Letterman will say about THIS car?
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 6:37 am
It’s not a few years behind the Volt; maybe not behind at all. They’re building 200 this year, which is about as many as the Volt and they step up production next year plus it’s a more capable vehicle except for performance (which is perfectly acceptable).
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 6:44 am
The Volt 1.0 car is just to get the ball rolling for GM and generate excitement.
10,000 cars the first year is probably a good number.
1. If they are loosing money on it, the number should be big enough to generate a buzz but small enough not to drain the bank to far.
2. Lets face it, 1st year vehicles have a high risk of problems. I have owned two GM first year vehicles (I am driving one now). There is a significant risk of a major recall. With the Volt on a moonshot schedule and the new systems within the vehicle that do not have a 10 year track record, recalls are a real risk. Testing has not been as extensive as GM originally had hoped. The IVs were late and not in the numbers originally planned. I have had recalls on my vehicles, its not a major deal for the consumer other than a pain to drop the car off. The dealer took good care of me and the car. The problem is, they could cost GM a fortune. Pumping out 500,000 vehicles and then recalling them would be a disaster.
Bottom line. I like the plan.
Start slow, build up a little. Be conservative. Keep testing and then get version 2.0 on the streets while others are still pushing their first EV. Version 2.0 might make some money for GM and will be a much better car than V 1.0.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 7:05 am
definitely the USA will lead erev vehicles starting with the volt and then chrysler 200c and fisker karma
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 7:16 am
Nice to see these Mercedes, but after seeing the snaz and pizzazz of the BMW shown the other day, it seems like the bar keeps getting raised. I worry a little sometimes that the Volt won’t have enough design juice when you see alot of these other cars (bearing in mind they indeed are carried into production and look as hot as their concept models do). Hate to keep beating the drum here on this, but with the Tesla S, these Mercedes, the BMW hybrid, etc., etc., GM better have the Cadillac Converj and a whole host of other EREVs right behind the Volt, or they will be ran over I’m afraid.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 7:24 am
As I see these car companies drag their feet for all the various reasons (fear to commit to greatly, fear that suppliers won’t be ready, fear that gas prices won’t be high enough, fear that too many malfunctions will kill them with warranty work, fear that consumers can’t figure out how to plug their car in, well basically just fear), it makes me think how these same companies in world war 2 turned their factories overnight to make tanks and planes.
Now I realize that world war 2 tanks and planes didn’t have to be crash tested etc., but I think it shows what can be done if they really want to. But these companies are just fearful of anything but incremental change.
We just have to grind our teeth and watch all of these companies that have the ability to mass produce millions of BEVs and EREVs if they really wanted to drag their feet. And the slow roll out guarantees higher costs and slower adoption.
At least the slow progress that has been made the last 2 years will get put to use if gas prices were to return to $4 or even $5 a gallon. Then all of a sudden we’d see these companies moving a lot faster because they know the demand for higher sales would be there.
So until gas prices get higher we’re stuck with the old chicken or the egg syndome, in that the car companies won’t commit to higher production volumes until electric cars are more total-cost-of-ownership competitive with ICE cars, yet they won’t be more cost competitive until they commit to higher production volumes.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 7:26 am
Except the Volt started out looking beautiful.
This one doesn’t come close.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 7:28 am
Nice pictures CDAVIS. The interior looks cool. I still don’t like the exterior.
Thanks for the link.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 7:40 am
The best just keeps getting better, too bad it wasn’t the turbo diesel.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 7:43 am
A middle of the road sticker price will keep the Volt and a soon to follow truck model on the best seller list.
Many buyers will be selling the EREV idea to their spouse. Any vehicle sticker priced at $50+ is an instant “no sale” to most couples. An upstart manufacturer like Tesla, BYD, or Aptera is also a difficult sell. The Chevrolet Volt will do fine at under $40k sticker.
=D~
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 7:44 am
That clear plastic part that is in the upper-forward quadrant of both the real left and rear right wheels is some sort of Aero-Shield to cut drag, I’d bet. (A lighter color tint of the same color of the body might be tried where the clear-color-tone matches the body nicely, and, utilizing a coating of rubberized clear on the inside might help greatly where sand would otherwise pit the insides of those plastic Aero-Shields). A second set of them ought to be provided to easily “swap out”, to be kept for more formal occasions, because snow-sand on the winter roads may quickly alter their appearances.
The car looks good to me, because it is not “overdone” with all sorts of outside fixtures compared to the day before yesterday’s artwork.
I really think that now is the time for all other OEM’s to let us know if they are putting plans into place for E-REV’s. That way, they will have the motoring public become less attuned to the possibility that they are not even planning E-REV.
Artwork-only is perfectly fine, it it looks like something that OEM’s will really do, and likely can do, and can likely (by 2014 say) cost it in the neighborhood of $32,000 or even somewhat lower. This might have the inversely-expected affect of taking some of the pressure off of those OEM’s, even though they might have relentless questions posed regarding “Where are you now in you business-plan for E-REV”. Then, answering only to the extent you want or need would be fine.
“Publish or perish”, as admonished to post-grad doctoral candidates, is increasingly applicable with E-REVing, since GM is doing such a great job at it.
Still, by 2014, it would seem to me, that traction battery pack cost will not come down more than 15% to 20% max, because overhead has it’s way of finding it’s place in product lines if that is what the component can command. So, the 10 year/150,000 mile warranty ought to be held true permanently, it seems to me.
The remaining OEM’s ought to really be planning E-REV, and, be very cautious about not letting the motoring public at least know that E-REV is in their works. Especially since principal majors have proven that now they are on track and well-along for E-REV.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:00 am
Off topic, but I am still fuming over this. Is it only protectionism is America does it?
The Japanese and Koreans must think we are the worlds biggest suckers for us to let our own industry go to ruin, while their governments support their corporations until they take over. This makes me sick.
And they are probably laughing all the way to the bank with our taxpayer’s money.
http://features.csmonitor.com/economyrebuild/2009/09/01/cash-for-clunkers-helped-foreign-automakers-more/
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:02 am
Haven’t heard a lot about BYD recently, but I doubt they are dragging their feet.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:03 am
Also interesting to think where we would be with these EVs and BEVs if gas never dropped down in price after summer 2008. What if GAS never dropped below $4 after last summer and it was $5 now. Lets say this resulted from disruption in oil because of terrorism against pipelines in IRAQ, or Saudi oil fields started to decline a little more. In this scenario would we be hearing GM PLANS to build 200,000 volts in 2011 instead of 10,000? The last 12 months could have played out a lot different.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:05 am
High demand is the kind of problem you want if you are GM. I suspect they will ramp up for the Gen 2 or 3 Volt, not the Gen 1.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:05 am
Well, BYD did announce something yesterday:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/09c7b274-9691-11de-84d1-00144feabdc0.html
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:05 am
PS.
And SHAME on any American who bought a foreign brand car during the “cash for clunkers” program with their fellow Americans’ hard earned money!!
SHAME ON YOU!
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:14 am
That car sets a new record for ugly. Not just for the looks.
This is a ploy by Mercedes to get a piece of the taxpayer in the U.S.
I’m getting sick of the gravy train lining up at the taxpayerbailout/soupkitchen for industrial failure window of the Fed.
Why is the health care industry NOT interested in being on the government payroll, and it seems like everyone else IS?
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:16 am
To me, over a billion dollars in development costs does not equal “they aren’t all that committed”.
Must be some other reason for the low initial production.
This is a whole new paradigm in transportation. Perhaps they want to go at this pace to be able to correct any unforeseen problems without huge recalls and the accompanying bad press. The threads over the last two weeks on underwater testing and on various infrastructure concerns were good examples. These are things you just don’t worry too much about when designing a new ICE auto.
This is a whole new world they are creating here.
Will the victor be the guys who get there first, or the guys who are the first to do it right?
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:24 am
Rashiid,
LOL, thanks for the first chuckle of the day. And yes, I think it’s ugly too.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:28 am
nuclearboy,
I was waiting for someone to restate the need to go slow with the release of a new vehicle in case there’s a problem.
I hate the initial scarcity, but I understand it.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:29 am
Jackson,
Now THAT’s hi tech! (g),
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:32 am
“Disappointing acceleration times.”
I have to agree. 0 to 60 in 11 sec is not good enough to get on the x way safely.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:44 am
Maybe it’ll only be released in Europe? I don’t know if they have the same mandates.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:50 am
I was interested in the battery being sandwiched into the floor. That format would be cool for the old skateboard, fly-by-wire, formerly fuel cell concept platform.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:03 am
The serial hybrid idea has been out there for awhile; only waiting for battery technology and economics to catch up.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:05 am
Um, but what does it do for temperature regulation? Every one of these”me too” concepts sandwiches the batteries in the floor, apparently forgetting that the resulting larger surface area will be that much more difficult to insulate.
Is GM overplaying the need for temperature regulation, or are the others just short (battery life) sighted?
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:16 am
Good questions. I wish I had the answers. Now that you mention all that insulation/temp comtrol, a flat well insulated battery pack would be ok for a pickup truck (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:32 am
Chris Bangle has nothing to do with this. He’s with BMW. He does much better design than this odd thing.
I guess some people will like it…
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:38 am
I agree with you. We should remember that GM was the first in the EV market with the EV1 back then so they know what kind of problem they might have to deal with in this new kind of production and want to make sure everything is tuned before ramping up. Smart move.
They had enough disasters through the years. They are too weak to afford a new Corvair.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:40 am
Groan….
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:43 am
Or they have 62 miles AER in their back pocket…
“Hey guys surprise the Volt can do 60 miles!”
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:44 am
I feel the same way you do, but not quite as strongly, maybe. I have vented my feelings several times on this site and where has it gotten me. I guess just the satisfaction of venting it. So, vent away. But at some point it is time to move on. No one is really listening. They have heard it all before and they just skip past. But, feel free to continue. I can’t blame you and I certainly will not place a negative vote on your comment as some have. Good luck.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:46 am
Personally most of the vehicles MB makes larger than the sedans look kind of “ugly”. So why would they change for this one? But they sure make some good looking sedans.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:47 am
Dan,
It seems unlikely that even with encouragement OEM’s will post their plans on whether or not they have an EREV in the works, if it’s not seen as in their best interest. Maybe I’m missing something.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:52 am
The B class starts at $30k Cdn.
http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/index.cfm?ID=6158
That’s about the same price as a Malibu LTZ.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:59 am
Low production numbers for a totally new car is not unusual. All auto companies do the exact same thing. GM knows there is a lot of demand out there, but they also know there are unknowns that may crop up as the vehicle is being purchased and used the way people in general will use it. If the first 5,000 have an easy time and demand increases, we may see GM increase that 10,000 units somewhat. We just don’t know yet.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:05 am
N. Riley
All the more reason to get some near-production vehicles out into “consumers” hands for some real world testing between now and the release!
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:07 am
I suspect this is an effort by MB to gain an advantage over the Volt in miles per charge for their concept car. Later as we find out more about the actual production vehicle, I would not be at all surprised to find the number of miles per charge is greatly reduced. MB will, of course, have a handy excuse for the change. Right now it is strictly market positioning that they are doing. They are trying to gain mind share today to pad reality in the future. Even as GM said 40 miles per charge when the actual number may be only 30. Who really knows at this point. There will probably be a lot of “ifs” and “don’ts” coming from MB later.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:11 am
This vehicle is designed primarily for the U.S. market but will sell a good number in Europe and Asia. It is a “me too” and “cover all the bases” effort.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:23 am
This is just a sop to CARB’s EV loophole that allows extremely limited production, take back short term leases and onerous consumer restrictions.
“The BlueZero E-cell is the pure electric version …, and the BLueZero F-cell uses a hydrogen fuel cell.”
The F-cell should be the H-cell, of course.
So, the P-cell uses LPG (propane) and the N-cell uses domestic CNG (compressed natural gas), the A-cell uses compressed air, the BD-cell is a three cyclinder turbo bio-diesel (B-100) generator engine (> 3 kWh), etc. etc.?
Brand the letter(s) (E,F(H),P,N,A,BD, etc.) on a rear haunch of the car and let consumer happiness ensue.
Now we’re getting somewhere. 100% electric drive, efficient, practical, (relatively) low cost with standard platform, quick refuel range extended with whatever fuel sources your little heart desires.
Yay!
ok, ok, I suppose we can do a BE-cell for for the non-food ethanol E-100 crowd.
Nope, no G-cell for gasoline, sorry. The G-cell will stay a concept car that will be teased as always just two years away for a couple of centuries as we switch everything over to 100% electric drive, extended by everything (including no extended, making EVs a special case of ER-EVs) except for gasoline. Folks who want the full G-cell will be patted on the head and told – if only we had a proper gasoline infrastructure, maybe, but you can see that folks will run out of gasoline and be stranded some distance from potential and existing gasoline stations so it could never really work.
BTW, EVNow is not EVO.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:25 am
Amen. +1. Thanks
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:35 am
Against most of my posts, and my conscience, we did just that. We replaced my wife’s Nissan XTERRA with a Toyota Venza under the clunkers program. We first looked at the new 4-banger Chevy Equinox. It was our first choice. However, per sticker the Venza was 80% North American parts, while the Chevy was only 30% NA parts. Final assembly for the Venza was in Kentucky, while final assembly for the Chevy was in Canada. Both vehicles featured Japanese-made transmissions. The Toyota had a Japanese engine, while the Chevy had a Chinese engine.
All that said, we would have preferred to buy Chevy based upon personal tastes. We went to a local dealer. We called the dealer for two weeks. We got no response. In retrospect, it was really odd because the XTERRA was not worth much less per KBB trade-in than the Clunkers program offered us. If the salesperson had asked us if we wanted to order an Equinox if they gave us X for trade-in we would probably have done it, but I did not think about that on my own until it was too late.
When I go to buy my Volt I will not even consider using this dealer. I will drive to Chicago if need be. Not only did they not earn my business, they did not have the brains to ask for it.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:43 am
or maybe a tacky meter?i.e.” look how tacky those etch a sketch wheel skirts are”
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:48 am
I suspect that it depends on who pays him to appear on his show…
I keep hearing people talk about selling advertising in the show (1950s-style), and I bet that David Letterman made a killing by having Tesla and then GM on the show to hawk their wares.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:52 am
I’m predisposed to dislike luxury-brands like Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus… But the compact-wagon shape of this thing looks like a good match for my purposes.
It’s hard to tell how big a vehicle is until I walk up next to it, though, and since it’s Mercedes, I imagine that the prices will make the Volt look cheap… But, still, I’ll be keeping an eye on this car.
But, then again, I like the appearance of the Prius and everything made by Subaru — so I must clearly be crazy.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:22 am
That 0-60 time is similar to the 2nd-gen Prius, and not too far away from my 2.5L Ford Ranger. My wife and I have put a total 200k miles on these vehicles over the last 4-5 years, and I think you’re a little nuts claiming that these cars aren’t safe on the highway. They merge and climb hills plenty fast, and they can out accelerate an 18-wheeler in any circumstances.
What is different between driving a normally-powered 4-banger and driving an overpowered sports car is that you have to look ahead, and think about the traffic and contour of the road a little. You can’t just rush up to the merge lane, realize there’s a car there, and then power yourself out of the situation — you have to look at the traffic as you’re going up the on-ramp, pick an empty spot in the traffic, and modulate your speed accordingly so that you can merge smoothly into that spot. It’s easy, and you should be doing that in a powerful car anyway — since it’s smoother and safer, and requires less consideration from the traffic that happens to already be on the highway.
If you just anticipate the movements of other cars, everything gets easier. I can keep a higher average speed than your average overpowered boy-racer, while maintaining bigger safety margins, while attracting less attention from the local constabulary — all with a smaller engine and while using less fuel. All that’s required is a little energy-management and forethought.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:25 am
That is a shame Mark. Not only the non-responsiveness of the dealer but also the low percentage of made in N.A. parts. I would have also been turned off with the Chinese motor. What is GM thinking? I know it is probably a GM facility, but yet it just rubs me the wrong way. I had been looking at the Equinox commercials on TV and wondering if it would be a good vehicle to downsize my wife from a Honda Odyssey to it, but I will have to really rethink this line of thought. Sorry, GM. I don’t think I will be looking at the Equinox any time soon.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:28 am
Not crazy, Luke. Just free to purchase what ever vehicle you think best fits your needs. Maybe GM will get their CUV ER-EV on the board before you decide to purchase this MB. It is still only a concept.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:33 am
That is what I would like to see also. GM had talked like it would be next summer before those 500 Volts would be released “in the wild”, but I think they are making a mistake if they wait until then. There are plenty of areas available for testing this winter in fairly warm climes. Plus some real cold weather testing like some of you guys “up North” could do would serve as a good test. GM needs to get on the ball and get the 500 out to me, you, Lyle, Statik and, oh yes, some of the rest of you other guys. (I wouldn’t want to leave you others out. Really!) GM would find a very good, diverse group of people dedicated to finding any flaws in the Volt. Get it going, GM!
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:41 am
N, Riley
Amen on all counts (except maybe the order) (lol). And to top it off we’re humble too! (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:48 am
Don’t forget the T-Cell (Multi-fuel Turbine)
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:52 am
Yeah. I’m not much for the outside of a hatchback sedan but it is a practical configuration. Make mine a coupe or a roadster with an multi-fuel turbine range-extender.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:52 am
Maybe it’s an “ugly-o-meter”. This car would peg it. Zero to Ugly, in 5 seconds….
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Here’s another example of a car company not staying in their most profitable and expert area.
- Porche makes SUVs. Why? They make more profit on high-dollar sports cars.
- Benz making a small commuter car. Why? They make more money on luxury sedans.
- Tesla making a family sedan. Why? They are profitable making electric sports cars.
- Tata making Land Rovers. Why? They make small commuter cars for the third-world. Land Rovers are making them bankrupt.
This would be like GM making a motorcycle and branding it as GMC.
We shall see if this ugly duckling makes it into production. And 0-60 = 11sec plus 94mph top speed ain’t gonna cut it on the autobahn!
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 12:27 pm
DaV8or,
I think you have it right on the money.
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 12:54 pm
A friend traded in his Chevy for a Honda. I ribbed him about stimulating the Japanese economy, and he told me that Hondas are made in USA. I pointed out the “Made in Japan” sticker in the door, and got an irritated glance (He hadn’t even bothered to look before purchasing.).
I’m not against buying foreign products in moderation, but we have a huge and unsustainable trade deficit that we ignore at our own peril.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:06 pm
You may wish to reconsider going the other way, back towards GM. The company I work for has our only production plant in China now. Why? Two reasons, the first is that of course it’s cheaper to build our product there. Our wages to the employees is higher than most other American production facilities located in China. The second reason and much of a shocker to many is that quality of the product assembled is very high. Our fail rate is better than 1 in 1,000,000. We didn’t even come close to that with our prior El Salvador facility, Mexico facility and certainly not even close to that with our Texas facility (now all closed). Remember that GM now has a higher quality rating than Toyota and Nissan, and the majority of Toyota and Nissan parts are made where?
On the other side of this message, it is too bad that the Chevrolet dealer wasn’t interested in making the sale. Maybe that was one of those dealers that should have been placed on the ‘close’ list. My best car deals have been from small dealers who need to move volume to stay afloat. The big guys just aren’t hungry.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Will it be available on Ebay? That would squash dealer mark ups!
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I thin MB sells more than just luxury cars… Outside of the US, anyway. They seem to sell big trucks and small cars world-wide, but I’ve observed that they’ve positioned themselves as a premium brand in the US, and only sell the expensive luxury cars here.
But I’m only basing this on Internet-reading and a little bit of touristing, so take it with a grain of salt.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:49 pm
There was a piece about BYD on Marketplace last night:
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/09/01/pm-green-cars/
It sounds like they invited NPR’s China correspondent to Shenzhen for the weekend, and took him around the track in the BYD plugin hybrid. The report focuses on the business and political aspects of the car, rather than the car itself, though.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Maybe you and Lyle are humble, but Statik and I are just too damn full of ourselves to be humble. (I wonder if that will stir up the old ash can for Statik.)
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Do you like the looks more or less than the Prius?
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:01 pm
One car that is made in Japan, but most US Japanese cars are made in Japan, and here’s the kicker, profits made from vehicles by Toyota go to often go to shareholders as dividends, many of whom are American.
I agree, our trade ratio is in shambles, but we need to figure out a way to get off of oil. That is about $1 billion a day going to foreign countries right there. If we could solve our oil issue, we would be in insanely better shape. We still have the highest GDP in the world by about 3x, so I think if we could solve our oil addiction problem and lower health care costs, our problems would be pretty much solved.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Statik probably still has his fingers in his ears singing LALALALALA. You three have to work at being humble, for me it’s my most realistic quality (g).
I miss statik. What’s it been now, a year? Two?
Be well,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:53 pm
I hate to break it to you but, the last I heard, the SUVs are Porsche’s biggest profit center. Sad but true.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Do I look like someone who cares what Mercedes Benz does? Ditto for BMW, BTW.
That’s a big 10-88 good buddy. Next case.
LJGTVWOTR!!
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
For me this is more of a 10-84 issue. Don’t care until there is a danger that it might be available for sale.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Definitely better looking than the Prius
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Something that Lyle did not mention is the rear ICE will recharge the battery and also drive the rear wheels.. so this is a combination serial BEV and a parallel-thru-the-road hybrid.. unique.
This method may improve the charge sustaining mpg that the mercedes will get over the Volt.. but its also a much larger car so it may wash out. The Merc will need a rwd transmission in addition to the normal motor and generator.. how many gears will the rear transmission have?
The under-the-floor components will make maintenance interesting, but these hybrids should not need much maintenance.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4299023.html
Rear engine drive:
http://green.autoblog.com/2008/12/11/mercedes-blue-zero-e-cell-two-more-benz-evs-coming-to-detroit/
“The E-Cell Plus adds the Smart ForTwo’s turbocharged three-cylinder engine to the E-Cell package, and its batteries can move the vehicle for 100 km (62 miles) on their own. With a full charge and a full tank (and using regenerative braking), the E-Cell Plus will go 600 km (373 miles). The engine powers the battery during the drive but can also directly move the wheels when needed. “
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 6:26 pm
I disagree with your premise. I would think that thermal management of the batteries has more to do with keeping them cool enough than keeping them hot enough. In that regard, the greater the surface area, the more passive thermal management you have. To keep the batteries warm when it’s too cold outside, a small resistance heater would do the job. But heat is the big problem with li-ion battieries (it reduces efficiency and can lead to the potentially catastrophic thermal runaway). I’ve seen several battery pack designs that not only utilize the air flow under the car to keep the battery cool, but also add ribbing to the undercarriage to better transmit that cooling effect into the battery pack.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 6:51 pm
One point that most commenters missed on this car is the relatively small size of the ICE–1 liter, 3 cylinder, 67 hp. People get understandably hung-up on the battery technology, but just as important in an EREV is the ICE technology. GM officials have repeatedly said that they have sacrificed an efficient and right-sized ICE in order to get the Volt to market quickly. The Gen-2 Volts will have an engine purposely designed for an EREV architecture. What does that mean? Nobody knows because nobody has built a production EREV yet. The dream ICE for an EREV would some form of diesel. Two reasons: the higher energy value of diesel means less liquid weight has to be carried around for a given amount of power; secondly, diesel engines perform most efficiently when they remain at a constant speed.
On another note, I just have to sit back and marvel at what interesting times we are living in for the auto industry. At the same time that the conventional way of business is collapsing, everybody is spending their scarce R&D dollars on the next generation of vehicles. Toyota rules the current hybrid roost and therefore spits on any attempt at advanced hybrids. Honda is desperately trying to keep track of Toyota. Nissan is trying to leapfrog all the intellectual property that Toyota has amassed by going straight to BEV’s. GM is betting the farm on EREV’s. Meanwhile, Toyota is working on the ultimate moonshot: a production fuel cell vehicle by 2015. This is going to be fun to watch.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 6:53 pm
“… we need to figure out a way to get off of oil.”
I agree, and that’s a big reason why why I am so interested in the Volt.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Why so ugly MB??? Was expecting better. Why do “green” cars have to look so ugly.
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Actually the Hydrogen F-cell stands for Failed-cell.
What’s next, C-cell for “cold fusion”-cell?
P-cell for perpetual machine cell?
M-cell for Cow manure cell?
and
U-cell for EESTOR ultracap-cell
Get a life MB!
(Quote)
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:33 pm
N Riley – You could always look at one of the other 9 or so GM crossovers that are available. Surely one or two of them are 50% NA parts while assembled in the US/Canada!
And in a PSA to the average reader in response to Todd’s reply : don’t let the quality of one or a small handful of plants fool you. Quality of heavy parts from over there is still atrocious. Cheap plants are cheap, and most pricier plants are cheap. You can’t run cheap, consistent quality out of China unless it is nearly 100% your own facility. This exists, but it is not the norm. For a foreign company outsourcing through partially-owned facilities or quick-and-cheap middlemen, a large amount of the cost is shifted from wages to the quality management, rework, and recall.
As a rule of thumb, any quality of product is available, at any price.. the difficulty is knowing which you’ll be getting from week to week. Heisenberg would understand.
(Quote)
September 3rd, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Choice is cool like that.
(Quote)