Aug 25

Chevy Volt Underwater Testing

 

I previously had a discussion with Lance Turner, lead engineer in the Volt battery lab who also worked on the EV-1 program.

I asked him if there are any special considerations about the Volt and its high power battery getting exposed to water, such as in a flood, or accident where the car gets submerged.

Lance advised me that the battery pack is, although not hermetically sealed, sealed to be maximally waterproof. Special attention is given to the connection between the high voltage lines coming out of the front of the pack to the inverter, and these are sealed especially well. The pack also has the means of detecting water seeping into the pack allowing it to shut down.

Lance described one way the EV-1 was water tested. GM actually put a working EV-1 inside a large vat of sea-water, because it contains electrolyte and in theory one could drive into it.

Once the car was in, it was turned on and the seawater was gradually added. There was an extensive system of monitors including current detectors placed over test dummies in the seats, and noxious gas detectors.

As soon as the water level reached the battery, it shut down. There were some crackles and pops sounds, but in the end no significant current flowed into the dummies.

Will this be applied to the Volt?  We’ll have to wait and see.

Below is a new video GM released along the same theme showing the Volt IVer prototypes getting soaked in a test chamber. This of course isn’t to test the battery’s safety underwater but to check the final Volt design for leaks so that they can be fixed.

This entry was posted on Tuesday, August 25th, 2009 at 6:04 am and is filed under Battery, Prototypes, Safety. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 220


  1. 1
    Dave K.

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (6:14 am)

    A water tight Volt is sure to provide a very quiet driving experience. Wonder if BYD is going through this level of quality assurance?

    =D~


  2. 2
    Herm

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (6:20 am)

    Probably so, and perhaps even more extensive testing.. dont forget BYD is also a large battery manufacturer and they understand batteries.

    Salt water immersion would be nasty in any car, probably instant irreversible death for the Volts battery pack. There would be some vigorous hydrogen generation during the salt water immersion, perhaps an explosion danger if enough hydrogen accumulated.. but that would be unlikely.

    The aluminum tabs on the actual battery pouches would dissolve very quickly, and soon after the cell would be rendered inert.


  3. 3
    FME III

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (6:25 am)

    Herm, you may be right, but after the series of tainted-product scandals coming out of China, I’m more inclined to think that BYD will not be as thorough. Yes, they may know batteries, but when it comes to building cars, there’s no way they have GM’s 100 years of accumulated know-how acquired through trial and error.


  4. 4
    Schmeltz

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (6:26 am)

    This is good that safety with the presence of water is being considered. One situation I thought of, is when you drive the Volt into your home garage with rain and slush or snow melting off the exterior, and you go to plug-in the car. How is GM designing safety into the charging of the vehicle in that situation? Nasaman has little to worry about here, but us Northerners may have reason to be concerned. :)


  5. 5
    Rashiid Amul

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (6:36 am)

    In the on-line chat the other day, the answer to you question is, no problem.
    ————
    http://gm-volt.com/2009/08/20/charging-the-chevy-volt/

    Question: Asked at 2:18 from (whowhere).
    Assume I am charging my Volt now outside, then it starts raining, any safety issue in the rain?

    Answer:
    Gery Kissel: No. Adhering to the J1772 standard, we incorporate multiple levels of shock protection into the design, thus it will be safe to operate in any environmental condition.


  6. 6
    nuclearboy

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (6:39 am)

    And less face it, plugging the Volt in during crappy (a word from my graduate meterology class) weather is going to be a bigger issue for those parking on the street.


  7. 7
    Schmeltz

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (6:54 am)

    Thanks Rashiid. I missed that. I would assume that the engineers would take stuff like this into consideration but then you probably know what happens when one assumes anything…LOL.


  8. 8
    Xiaowei1

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (7:02 am)

    BYD may be a large battery manufacturer, but they are pretty new to cars, and battery packs for same. they have to contend with the problem of the quality inconsistency of different products they use for their car batteries which are much larger than the mobile phone batteries they are used to. BYD really have to address their battery packs high failure rate before they should think about such extensive testing of their cars.


  9. 9
    Rashiid Amul

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (7:11 am)

    Oh, so true Schmeltz.

    Trust me. I am an expert at making an A$$ of myself. ;)

    Like you, I have to worry about the weather also.
    Snow, ice, rain, sleet, etc. The question stuck in my head because it was important to me. I’m glad GM thought of this and made it safe for all environments.


  10. 10
    Joe

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (7:14 am)

    As I was writing this, i found the above is almost a duplicate. Yes, I agree with you.

    I seriously doubt GM’s competition is going the extra mile for the safety of their electric cars. Tesla is an example. Being a start-up company, there is no way they have the equiptment and expertise in bringing a car like the Volt to market.

    Go Volt Go!!


  11. 11
    Joe

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (7:16 am)

    Ground fault interrupters I’m sure will be used. Just like what is used for swimming pools.


  12. 12
    Shock Me

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (7:18 am)

    Yes I was going to ask about sub-zero weather where the plug has been in all night and maybe iced over but we ran out of time in the live chat.

    (I’m hoping waste heat will keep the line defrosted so the car doesn’t end up frozen to it’s leash. I hope the Volt will heat the plug, windows, seats, and door locks an hour before I leave.)


  13. 13
    Rashiid Amul

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (7:26 am)

    I seem to remember a bunch of us talking about this a year ago.
    What I can’t remember is whether or not we figured out if the car will do this. We talked about a schedule, where we could tell the car that at a certain time, heat up the interior and battery while plugged in.
    I wish I could remember if GM said this will be possible. Sorry. This brain is really useless sometimes.


  14. 14
    Adrian

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (7:38 am)

    If the new system is designed right and installed right, there shouldn’t be an issue.


  15. 15
    nuclearboy

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (7:41 am)

    I was thinking about multiple 8 foot ($1.99) lamp quality extension cords running accross the wet lawn to the Volt charging unit. The Volt charging unit will be wll designed but it may be laying in the mud connected to a cheap cord for some.

    I am thinking Chevy Chase in Christmas vacation with the cluster of plugs for the Christmas lights.


  16. 16
    dorp7

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (7:41 am)

    I’d much rather see the phrase “instant irreversible death” applied to the battery than to the passengers…


  17. 17
    Jason M. Hendler

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:04 am)

  18. 18
    Dan Petit

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:16 am)

    You cannot have multiple extension cords.

    I remember a service call I provided a Motor Home owner who was short of funding to get a proper 30 amp 25 foot extension cable for his motor home.

    “Both roof AC’s were inoperative”, he said, and he was worried about how that would impact his resale price.

    I came out and found that the RV 30 amp service cable was connected to a 30 amp-to-15 amp adapter. That, in turn, was connected to an extension cord that was rated at 15 Amp service (12 gauge). That in turn, was connected to a smaller extension cord that was rated at 10 amp capacity (14 gauge).

    Over at the outside outlet, the entire duplex outlet was black with overload carbon (it was originally white).

    “You can’t do this!” I said. “You overloaded the AC’s by undersupplying amperage.” “You can have an overload on the demand side, which can blow a fuse.” “And, you can have an overload on the supply side, which can harm the electrical devices ALL of which need proper power, amps and volts, at ALL times when they need it, especially when it is hot both inside the coach (115 degrees), as well as outside at the condenser up there on the roof (at 115 degrees).”

    “A 15 amp normal-load rated roof AC can initially-require 19 amps in these conditions”. “You have two of them up there, and, you could be initially-demanding 38 amps through a 10 amp “bottleneck” with these wimpy extension cords”.

    “Peak volts and adequate amps are everything when lots of work needs to be done.”

    Fortunately for him, all I needed to do was to remove the interior intake covers and reset the processors in each of the Roof AC’s. For most others, the compressor just overloads and overheats to the point of failure.

    No extension cords for Volt chargers that are not GM approved in both capacity as well as length. Even though those extension cord tags “list” they have that capacity, they in fact do not at all have that capacity long-term time-use wise, even if there is only an 8 Amp requirement by the Volt charging system. The protections of the charge cord are specific to HOW the charge cord is installed and specifically HOW and WHERE the Volt is connected to it, not just because it is there (somewhere in the circuit).

    (Yikes! 8:16 am. Off to work! Have a great day all!!)


  19. 19
    Jackson

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:46 am)

    For some reason, I’m reminded of Homer Simpson taking an electric car on a test drive underwater: “It’s electric, isn’t it?” …and then returning it to the dealership smoking and sparking.

    Or years ago, radio commentator Paul Harvey observing:
    “Who will be first to drive an electric car … (they’re coming, you know) … Who will be first to drive an electric car … into … a Car Wash? Page two …”


  20. 20
    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:55 am)

    It never rains in Southern California :)


  21. 21
    Jackson

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:56 am)

    I’ve seen my share of nightmare extension cord scenarios. My ‘favorite’ was a commercial freezer plugged into a light fixture with a screw-in to plug adapter and a 3-wire to 2-wire plug.

    He had to be constantly alert to reset the breaker.

    No, I don’t know how the restaurant kept from burning down.


  22. 22
    CorvetteGuy

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:58 am)

    If James Bond can do it with a Lotus Esprit, then Bob Lutz can do it with Chevy VOLT!


  23. 23
    Herm

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:58 am)

    Wang Chuan-Fu, the CEO of BYD very proudly says that his batteries are the only ones that did not have a recall, and BYD makes a lot of batteries .. regarding quality of the cars, if the customers want and pay for high quality, they will build to that level.


  24. 24
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:58 am)

    You have THAT right!

    Thanks for the laugh!


  25. 25
    Carcus1

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:01 am)

    meh. .. . .

    it’s been done already — back in about ’56.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyJiA3BbKLo


  26. 26
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:06 am)

    I wonder if I can run my Malibu through that water chamber… I was looking at the poor filthy hood of the car on the way to work and it occured to me that I couldn’t see the paint colour!

    900 gallons a minute should knock the dust off!


  27. 27
    Build Your Dream

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:08 am)

    (click to show comment)


  28. 28
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:11 am)

    I hadn’t watched that in years!

    Mr Magoo is the MAN!

    Thanks Carcus1!


  29. 29
    MuddyRoverRob

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:14 am)

    :-)

    The Volt is a fine looking car and much more practical but is there anything more pretty than the Esprit mark 1?


  30. 30
    Rob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:15 am)

    On a related matter: A friend of mine who’s a first-responder in Florida – which is criss-crossed with drainage canals – told me that, when it comes to hybrid vehicles in the drink, the unwritten rule among her colleagues is to STAY AWAY, for fear of being fried.


  31. 31
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:17 am)

    No Name is out from under the bridge early today.


  32. 32
    Jackson

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:21 am)

    I’ve heard that vehicles (and their drivers) are sometimes listed as missing for years before someone decides to go through and clean out one or another of those canals …


  33. 33
    Starcast

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:24 am)

    Shockingly, I will agree to be the first to drive a volt into a car wash!

    That means I get to drive volt! :>)


  34. 34
    MarkinWI

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:28 am)

    Yeah, but will the Volt’s extension cord and battery pack be brush-fire proof? :-)


  35. 35
    Jo Jo

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:29 am)

    I hope the Volt ICE can hold up underwater. Ha Ha. Me thinks NOT.

    FAIL :-(


  36. 36
    Loboc

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:32 am)

    I’d be more worried about AIR than electricity if under water!

    Although I did read once on the Darwin Awards site about an electrician that electocuted himself with a 9v battery. He was measuring his body’s electrical resistance with a VOM and stopped his heart!

    In the future, power outlets will all be ‘smart’ and not allow stupid human tricks. GFCI is just the bare minimum. There shouldn’t be any power unless a proper plug and load is attached. Paper clips and such shouldn’t activate the outlet.

    It looks like Volt charging cords have some intellegence in design and implementation. I’m glad they changed from the ‘orange extension cord’ charging scenario that was visible in early videos.


  37. 37
    Roger Ramjet

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:32 am)

    (click to show comment)


  38. 38
    Roger Ramjet

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:35 am)

    (click to show comment)


  39. 39
    MuddyRoverRob

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:36 am)

    Troll alert.


  40. 40
    MuddyRoverRob

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:38 am)

    Our troll gets that a $140k sports car can go faster than a $40k commuter car…

    Guess it’s all that experience living under the bridge.


  41. 41
    Tall Pete

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:39 am)

    But elsewhere in the country, we do have a lot of rain, and snow, and cold… :-(


  42. 42
    Tagamet

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:40 am)

    nuclearboy
    In the chat I think they mentioned that the Volt cord itself will be 20 feet long. That’s a good start.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  43. 43
    MuddyRoverRob

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:41 am)

    That beats my story of an office where 8 cubicals were serviced off 1 15 amp plug with a chain of power bars…

    Strangely it was reliable…


  44. 44
    Roger Ramjet

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:42 am)

    (click to show comment)


  45. 45
    Tagamet

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:42 am)

    Jackson
    The film leading this piece looked like a super car-wash (but I guess that that was your point).
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  46. 46
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:44 am)

    It seems to me that there is likely a fail-safe internal safety that would drain the battery across a big resistor (?) in short order were a worst case scenario to occur.


  47. 47
    Dwayne

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:45 am)

    What a dumb statemate to make – GMs design capability is much, much greater that Tesla’s. I am all for Tesla but lets not pretend that their car has anywhere near the engineering that the Volt has. Not even close!


  48. 48
    Scooter

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:49 am)

    That must be some really old Roof AC stuff. Most smart people now use DC-powered air conditioning that have no current surges like the old-school AC powered models. These are 12VDC systems but most people wire them for 24VDC so that they can use much higher gauge (thinner) wires. Anyway anyone still using AC powered air conditioning in a RV, Van or 18-Wheeler is just plain stupid.


  49. 49
    Roger Moore

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:54 am)

    Underwater Volt Testing :-)

    That is hilarious, they must be trying out for the next Bond movie. I laughed so hard I almost made a deposit in my depends.


  50. 50
    Speed Triple

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:01 am)

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  51. 51
    MuddyRoverRob

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:03 am)

    Calling someone stupid for running what they have is pretty judgemental.

    Sharing information about newer equipment is appreciated though.


  52. 52
    EMT

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:05 am)

    That is correct. You will not see emergency crews near HIGH VOLTAGE. I believe the Volt has a few hundred volts or so under the hood and this could spell trouble for some of those unfortunate victims (errr i mean owners).


  53. 53
    N Riley

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:19 am)

    Dave K,

    As with all Chinese made products they are fully tested and contain only the very best ingredients for the happiest consumer experiences. China would accept nothing else. Now, if you believe that, I have some ocean view land I want to sell you in Wyoming.


  54. 54
    Tagamet

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:20 am)

    Rashiid,
    I know that the battery will automatically warm itself from the plug, but I don’t know about the interior heating. I know you can schedule when the battery will charge through the middle console.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


  55. 55
    csmcg

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:20 am)

    After attending half a dozen extrication classes specifically about hybrid and electric vehicles, plus having recently cut someone out of a hybrid, I have decided that I would rather deal with batteries than with pools of gasoline.


  56. 56
    Jackson

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:22 am)

    You know where you can stick that proton energy pill, RR


  57. 57
    Gary

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:23 am)

    I don’t think that government fleet and taxi companies really equates to mass production. Selling to the public is mass production.


  58. 58
    Mitch

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:23 am)

    Off topic

    Here is an intersting look by Top Gear at the Prius vs a BMW M3…mileage wise…

    Its all how you drive….

    http://www.fark.com/cgi/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=4595664


  59. 59
    Gary

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:25 am)

    (Rolling Eyes)


  60. 60
    Jackson

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:28 am)

    No more than can the ICE in any other car, doofus. (Oops, have I just selected your next ‘handle?’)


  61. 61
    Gary

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:28 am)

    I don’t think that we can expect any motor, in any car–be it gas or electric–to be designed to be submerged under normal operating conditions.


  62. 62
    Gary

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:29 am)

    (Rolling Eyes) (Again)


  63. 63
    Carcus1

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:33 am)

    I don’t think “certain types” of extension cords have ever garnered too much respect.

    http://www.scodal.com/uploads1/whore.gif


  64. 64
    Jackson

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:34 am)

    It’s brilliant in it’s simplicity –

    The Chinese have come up with a foolproof way to dispose of toxic waste — export it!


  65. 65
    Tex-Arl

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:35 am)

    This water testing is not to test the battery. It is normal water testing to verify integrity of the body to the normal rain, carwash, road spray types of water .

    All assembly plants run the body assembly thru these “water test” units to provide a “water tight” body to the customer.


  66. 66
    Jackson

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:36 am)

    Never mind that, will it be earthquake-and-landslide resistant?
    ;-)


  67. 67
    Brutus Beefcake

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:40 am)

    Many years ago I had a dream while I was tanning my six-pack on the beach….

    To my horror I was brutally awakened by the sound of a white Chevy Volt (okay back then it was a Lotus) driving out of the ocean onto the beach and heading straight for me. Then all of the sudden the driver pulls like 3 feet away from my rock hard abs and rolls down the window wearing a tuxedo and promptly throws a stinking fish on my belly. I was shell shocked and immediately woke up only to realize this was just a dream.

    I will never forget that sunny California day on the beach, and the mexican weed was outstanding.


  68. 68
    V=IR

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:41 am)

    There was an extensive system of monitors including current detectors placed over test dummies in the seats….

    We’ve got a job for you No-name. Sure we’ll miss you, but it is for the greater good.


  69. 69
    Jackson

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:44 am)

    If you don’t get help at Charter, get help somewhere.


  70. 70
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:48 am)

    Well there IS the Otto engine in a torpedo… It burns a rather toxic stew with oxidizers included instead of just gasoline though.

    Definately not a car though!


  71. 71
    Timaaayyy!!!

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:04 am)

    bloop, bloop, bloop, look, the GM stock certificates are down here! In Sponge Bob’s house.

    He and Diver Dan want to order a Volt, but they’re worried about the destination charge.


  72. 72
    Billy Bob

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:05 am)

    (click to show comment)


  73. 73
    old man

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:07 am)

    Speed Triple

    You should have watched the clip before you posted.You wouldn’t look quite so bad. You know, be informed prior to shooting off your mouth.


  74. 74
    Jim in PA

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:17 am)

    Why did I think this story was going to end with a declaration of your hatred for monkeys?

    I will now press “Submit Comment” with my strong and shockingly well-defined index finger.


  75. 75
    Timaaayyy!!!

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:22 am)

    just a little lol on a sunny day


  76. 76
    Noel Park

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:24 am)

    Sell stuff cheap enough and the suckers will buy it.


  77. 77
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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:26 am)

    Call for Jake!


  78. 78
    Noel Park

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:29 am)

    I saw a cool new political term yesterday, “astroturfing”. That’s where vocal demonstrators who appear to be “grassroots” activists are actually orchestrated by corporations and PR firms.


  79. 79
    Noel Park

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:32 am)

    LOL from LA.


  80. 80
    Noel Park

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:34 am)

    csmcg:

    Got that right.


  81. 81
    Noel Park

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:36 am)

    Gary:

    The way it’s going today, I’m concerned that you will end up with a headache from too much eye rolling. Careful, it can happen.


  82. 82
    Noel Park

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:40 am)

    I nominate this for the funniest thread in GM-Volt.com history. I actually did LOL. Jim in PA and Timaaayyy!!! finally provided the critical mass.

    Well done guys.


  83. 83
    Noel Park

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:48 am)

    Having attended more than a few salvage car auctions, I can tell you that ANY car, conventional ICE, hybrid, or otherwise, which is submerged in water is INSTANTLY declared a total loss by insurance companies. It doesn’t matter if it’s salt or fresh water, or the result of a flood, or accidentally driving into a lake, canal, river, or the ocean. It’s history.

    Trying to fix them is not cost effective, and undetected problems tend to continue to show up forever. They just don’t want the headache.

    After Katrina, the huge number of “flood” cars which came to the junk market was astonishing. A few of them got bootlegged back into the car market. Pity the poor souls who got stuck with them.


  84. 84
    nuclearboy

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:58 am)

    I am just having some fun thinking of the poor knucklehead plugging in his volt from about 150 feet away using a series of cheap around the home extension cords.

    20 feet will be just about perfect for the average garage.

    For those others who will be on the street, its anything goes.


  85. 85
    nuclearboy

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:03 pm)

    I had an old CanAm dirt bike back in the 80s that I ran through streems up to the gas tank. It had an air intake high near the handle bars and the ignition still worked underwater.


  86. 86
    MuddyRoverRob

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:04 pm)

    Here in the north there is usually a plug in infrastructure for block heaters in the winter.


  87. 87
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:05 pm)

    Off topic but interesting.

    A possible genset engine for the Volt SS?

    http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/08/five-stroke-engine/


  88. 88
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:08 pm)

    Off road good times!

    My discovery is good for 46 inches of water, but I’m careful to stay well short of that…


  89. 89
    Streetlight

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:13 pm)

    First this video shows impressive test facilities. But if there isn’t, shouldn’t there be an SAE spec on EV water resistance? As to the battery enclosure not being hermetically sealed – lots of questions are raised. Of course as Argonne Lab points out in their EV standards presentation slide; the mfgs. don’t supply proprietary data. Water comes in many flavors – so does sea water. Flooding is one of many forms of pressure source. What’s more, batteries aren’t the only at risk component. There’s drive motor(s). The EV gots to continue propulsion under any water conditions. Is the preprogrammed water shut-down a hardship waiting to happen?


  90. 90
    Jackson

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:29 pm)

    Yup.


  91. 91
    Jackson

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:32 pm)

    When is this thing supposed to hit the showrooms, again?

    On a positive note, perhaps “no name” will get tired of us by then.


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    Jackson

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:35 pm)

    “Ilmor Engineering, a firm that is co-owned by Roger Penske…”

    Shades of Saturn?!


  93. 93
    MuddyRoverRob

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:37 pm)

    Nov 2010 for production start, so add 6 weeks to finish and ship them so ‘maybe’ Christmas 2010, but more likely Jan-Feb 2011 before they show up locally.

    I’d REALLY like Lyle to trace no-names IP address…


  94. 94
    Luke

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:40 pm)

    Neither one is available to the public yet, so I’d hesitate to judge.

    Our Prius is a nice vehicle, but Toyota’s thing is incremental improvement. The Volt isn’t an incremental change, it’s a moonshot… I think it’s fascinating how the two designs reflect the cultures of the companies that create them, and I hope they both work out. Hopefully I’ll get to test-drive both!


  95. 95
    Mike-o-Matic

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:42 pm)

    Hey Rob, no need to go to such an extreme, they got these groovy things nowadays called a “car wash”… all you gotta do is feed it a few bucks and drive in! Problem solved. :-)


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    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:43 pm)

    :-)

    The same, makes for some interesting possibilities!


  97. 97
    CorvetteGuy

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:45 pm)

    If this works out, just imagine the military applications!

    A whole fleet of EREV – Electric Submarines!

    http://www.ussubs.com/

    Cool.


  98. 98
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:51 pm)

    Ya I know, but the car is REALLY dirty and It just looked like fun to beat on a car like that!

    There ARE advantages to older cars… a little dent or scratch is called “personality”!

    The regular car wash will likely do a stand in soon though.


  99. 99
    Luke

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (12:52 pm)

    Huh, I wonder how they deal with all of the other vehicles and situations that feature high voltage now… Or are you saying that hybrid drivers never get into accidents, and that nobody has ever been injured by mains power? And that no has ever been injured by high voltage electricity on the job?

    BTW, if you’re interested in these issues, here’s a manual written by Toyota for emergency response personnel:
    https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/staticcontent/en/techinfo/html/prelogin/docs/2ndprius.pdf
    The manual also has a nice overview of the car’s mechanical systems that any backyard mechanic would find interesting (which is how I found it initially).


  100. 100
    Jackson

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (1:00 pm)

    What’cha wanna bet it’s an Asian domain?


  101. 101
    MuddyRoverRob

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (1:09 pm)

    A fair bet but I don’t care, I’d just block the IP and be done with him.


  102. 102
    csmcg

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (1:15 pm)

    Hello Luke,

    This page contains a nice list of ERGs for various hybrids:http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/University-of-Extrication/University-Of-Extrication–Hybrid-Emergency-Response-Guides/19$60219

    I hope that you find some of it interesting.

    Regards


  103. 103
    kdawg

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (1:19 pm)

    Most of the electrical applications I deal with where water is present, everything has to be rated IP67 (basically washdown proof). This looks like what GM is testing for.


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    Mark Bartosik

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (1:29 pm)

    Last year when I was laying conduit with a trencher around my house I laid two additional conduits precisely so I could fit charging points at two other locations without using excessively long extension cords.

    I put in 1.5″ conduit in one place so I could charge my Volt at any charging rate it would accept (which we now know is limited to about 3.3KW).

    If you want to charge from a place that doesn’t have conveniently located power and it is on your property, you have at least 1 year to run some conduit and wires there (of course comply with NEC and local codes).

    I won’t put the actual wires in until I have the 240v charger in my hand (since it needs to be hardwired).


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    jeffhre

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:02 pm)

    Ground fault is required for 240v and all outdoor receptacles in most places. It’s just a dumb off switch though.

    The inboard charger is where the real control is. It will sense what is on the line before it allows charging; and can detect a number of faults and shut off power, going to re-test, before it it will allow charging to continue.

    Unfortunately it seems most commercial (public) chargers planned will just shut off and not allow the charger to continue until manually reset, like GFI.
    _______________
    From ( http://www.teslamotors.com/blog5/?p=68 )… “(I) sat in the shade and read my Amazon Kindle while my car ate electrons at 240V/40A. I also walked a few loops around their nature trail for my daily exercise. After one of the loops, I returned to find that the circuit breaker had tripped. Resetting it worked fine but I lost a bit of time. After that I monitored the breaker more closely.”
    _________
    “Greg Ceisel is the Chevy Volt Program manager and has integral knowledge about the car’s engineering.

    He recently shed some light on how the battery pack detects and reacts if there are any problems.

    “The reliability of the Chevy Volt and its battery are essential to the success of this technology,” he said. “Our battery design includes multiple computers that run hundreds of tests to monitor the cells and the overall battery to confirm everything is working correctly.” ” ( http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/26/chevy-volt-battery-has-robust-cell-monitoring-and-safety-systems/ )

    Not sure if GM has publicly iterated the charger safety functions yet though, I’ll search a little more..


  106. 106
    Mitch

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:10 pm)

    Actually Diesel-electric subs have been around since WW2….


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    jeffhre

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:13 pm)

    That’s true but training does not always keep up with what’s on the road, and if they haven’t read the manual the first responders aren’t gonna try it.


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    Jackson

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:16 pm)

    Since the WWI, actually. They would be considered parallel hybrids, not EREVs, since the diesel drivetrain was capable of turning the propellers without the electric motors (Also, electric-only range was both limited, and low speed). ;-)

    And speaking of nautical endeavors (or naughty ones), where is our good friend Captain Jack?

    No offense, CorvetteGuy, but I think I’d rather have a small helicopter on my mega-yacht. :-)


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    jeffhre

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:18 pm)

    MuddyRoverRob

    That’s a good name for the resident troll, the big resistor.


  110. 110
    N Riley

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:20 pm)

    The old saying about “there’s a sucker born every minute” or something like that doesn’t hold up in today’s modern world. It should be update to say “there’s 10,000 suckers born every minute”. Or something to that effect. We sure have been some real first class suckers for the past 25 years or so.


  111. 111
    Noel Park

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:20 pm)

    Hey, he’s fun. Look at the cool replies he draws. It lightens things up, IMHO.


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    Zack Lee Wright

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:23 pm)

    Suggest they break out of the lab mentality and test in Seattle, Warshington. Now that would be a real water test. ;-)


  113. 113
    N Riley

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:23 pm)

    Like President Reagan used to say “Trust, but verify”. When I come home with a wet car I will probably take the time to dry off the port with a dry cloth before sticking a power cord to it. Some how I just feel safer taking that extra precaution.


  114. 114
    Noel Park

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:26 pm)

    More power to you!

    +1


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    Martin Winterkorn

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:28 pm)

    Enuff of dis krap testing and get on the road already. If you keep dragin yo feet u r letting the others catch up and slap u faster than Obama can runup the public debt.


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    h8gm

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:28 pm)

    So, what does this stupid test prove? That a car can’t operate under water? Who is paying for the test.?
    Oh yeah the tax payers bottomless pockets. What a waste.


  117. 117
    MuddyRoverRob

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:28 pm)

    First responders tend to be pretty couragous folks, they would do their best in any case.

    It DOES make sense though that GM would share the relevant information with emergency services folks prior to next November.


  118. 118
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:30 pm)

    Wonder how they would enjoy 16kw in a short condition…
    Err nevermind…


  119. 119
    Jackson

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:31 pm)

    And you live … where?
    ;-)

    I think they need to get some road time north of Atlanta, where there is plenty of bumper-to-bumper traffic in searing heat (full disclosure: guess where I live?)


  120. 120
    SpongeBob

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:33 pm)

    The ice won’t start or the car won’t go into charge sustain mode down here when I park it in my pineapple.

    Did they test the Suburban like this? or the Tahoe? or the Cobalt? or the Caddy CTS? or the Malubu? or the Camaro? how bout the vette? If not, why not?
    Oh yeah, that’s why they are such crappy quality, they didn’t test them like this.


  121. 121
    Noel Park

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:35 pm)

    Muddy:

    Excellent. Thanks for the cool link.

    I just finished “The Unfair Advantage” by the great Mark Donohue, the story of his years with Penske Racing. It is by far the best book on motor racing I have ever read.

    It is replete with stories about the painful and difficult development of racing cars. These included cars built by Lola, Porsche, McLaren, Ferrari, and many others. One would expect that these cars, built by the best in the business, would be super competetive right out of the box. Not so. In almost every case, they required extensive development to be competitive. The ability to do this accounts for a lot of the legendary success of Penske Racing.

    This has great relevance for the Volt development process going on at GM now. The Volt is an extremely complex device, and the law of unintended consequences lurks everywhere. Bon Chance, GM!


  122. 122
    MuddyRoverRob

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:39 pm)

    It proves that when your mommy drives you home in the rain you won’t get your 2nd grade scribbler wet.


  123. 123
    RP

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:40 pm)

    Penske Rulez !!!


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    Streetlight

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:42 pm)

    Hi: Hardly do I question Chevy’s engineering documentation processes.
    GM pioneered testing standards. And a quick Google turned up: SAE J 1976, Weathering; SAE J 1960-89, Waterspray; WSK-M3G178; and ASTM B117-05 Salt spray. (And commentaries attesting to GM’s high testing standards.)
    My question relates to the article itself. Here GM highlights its Volt production water test capability … its the manner in which the tester notes consequences of what-if’s that brings about concern. I don’t cotton to the idea of an involuntary drive-train shut-down under any condition short of fire – that kind of thing.


  125. 125
    MotherNecessity

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (2:46 pm)

    Is this test really nesessary? Are they going to blow it up too from the inside just in case an IED bomb was inside?
    Maybe they should drop a boulder on it to simulate a meteorite hitting it.


  126. 126
    FallGuy

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:00 pm)

    Why not do a ‘Drop Test’ at 50 feet, just in case Hollywood wants to use it as some stunt cars in the next Transformers movie, or whatever…..


  127. 127
    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:07 pm)

    Yeah, but did they get 230 MPG !!!


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    N Riley

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:08 pm)

    Somehow I am not comforted by a picture of an EV1 in a fish bowl. Where did that idea come from Lyle? Good subject matter, though. We had discussed several time how the Volt would react to driving through water deep enough to submerge the lower chassis. I guess the answer is that it will handle it OK. Not worse than an ICE vehicle that “drowns-out”. I don’t expect to be driving in deep water. So I am not really concerned when you get right down to it.


  129. 129
    CorvetteGuy

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:21 pm)

    Nope. Especially when it’s shooting fake torpedos underwater


  130. 130
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:25 pm)

    Too Right!


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    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:28 pm)

    Okay… Back to a serious question:

    I know the battery pack is loaded up from below the car and bolted in, but there is a COVER over that… right? It’s not just hanging out down there waiting for the first chuck-hole-mud-puddle to happen by, is it?


  132. 132
    Mitch

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:28 pm)

    gee wiilikers bobby…maybe because those cars don’t have a battery pack..you think???..

    oh right..no you obviously don’t…


  133. 133
    Mitch

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:30 pm)

    OOO…another genius!!!

    I see a serious deficincy in cranial horse power here…

    Yes..lets plant an explosive, and drop it like fall guy says…those are certain real world possibility…

    maybe we should set up a line of gents to shag your rmom in the back seat to test the upholstry too..you know …real world stuff…


  134. 134
    N Riley

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:30 pm)

    Yes, the battery pack is sealed from below as well. Aerodynamics dictate that as well.


  135. 135
    Pewter Godfly

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:31 pm)

    GM spends $1.5 billion on Volt and counting for…..

    8 minute water sprinkler.

    Nice to know where my tax dollars are going.

    WTF, when are these people going to start losing their jobs. This has to be a joke.


  136. 136
    BorderCollie

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:33 pm)

    I smell the pungent odor of GM sheep.


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    N Riley

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:34 pm)

    He can’t think! HE HAS A SPONGE FOR A BRAIN!!!!! Duh! :-(


  138. 138
    Mitch

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:35 pm)

    another shining example of towering intellectualism…

    I heard from your proctologist..they have located your brain…it was tough as it looks like everything else there…

    (today is feed the troll days for me…this is fun…bad day so I am taking out frustrations here)


  139. 139
    Mitch

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:36 pm)

    HEY!! sponges are living creatures…and ARE capable of thinking..REAL sponges aren’t making assinine comments here..THEY understand cars unlike meathead squareshoes up here…

    well you understand…lol


  140. 140
    Mitch

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:38 pm)

    you really think his education level is that high?!?!?


  141. 141
    N Riley

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:38 pm)

    As the video shows all car bodies being developed go through this type of water test to check the design for leaks. All auto companies do the same type of test. GM just has to go a step further and test for leaks in the battery compartment. But, if you had read the article, you would have seen that the battery test they were referring to was done to the EV-1′s battery. GM paid for that about 20 years ago. Read the full article and understand what you read before making a comment. Please!


  142. 142
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:39 pm)

    mis-post oops.


  143. 143
    Mitch

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:39 pm)

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    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:40 pm)

    Looks like it’s going to fit flush with the floor.

    http://www.gm-volt.com/galleries/album/72157607038955164/photo/3658614390/production-chevy-volt-preproductionchevyvolt001jpg.html

    I can’t find the picture right now of the battery pack but I recall the ‘bottom’ was pretty heavy duty looking.


  145. 145
    N Riley

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:41 pm)

    I got you. My comment wasn’t directed at your comment, but at the sponge head a$$hole.


  146. 146
    N Riley

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:43 pm)

    It is not measurable. Not at all.


  147. 147
    N Riley

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:45 pm)

    No one can move that fast, Martin. But a good analogy anyway.


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    N Riley

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:48 pm)

    I don’t like the “no name” either, but I agree I do like the replies. And it doesn’t hurt to lighten us up some. We get too darn serious sometimes.


  149. 149
    N Riley

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:49 pm)

    That is not GM sheep you are smelling, Border. Better get your nose out of your a$$.


  150. 150
    Jackson

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:52 pm)

    Another genius?

    This is a brain-trust of one, I suspect.


  151. 151
    SpankYourMonkey

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:53 pm)

    Yet another example of ‘towering intellectualism’.


  152. 152
    Jackson

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:54 pm)

    Mitch; did they use the electron microscope?


  153. 153
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:54 pm)

    Sadly they pass unfortunate minds (even those as weak as our trolls) through anyway.

    It shouldn’t happen but we all have seen the evidence, we know it does.


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    N Riley

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:54 pm)

    I wonder, myself, about what will happen when the Volt hits 2 or 3 inches of water in a dip in the roadbed while being driven 35 – 45 MPH. Is the engine compartment protected from water being splashed up onto the electric motors? How about the circuitry? Lots of questions still to be answered by GM. I feel fairly certain all of these conditions will be tested for and resolved. Can’t stop everything from happening, but I believe most problems will be overcome.


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    Shock Me

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:54 pm)

    Submersible Chevys!
    The easiest way to get those Holden Volts down unda!

    Where is that number I have for Electric Boat?


  156. 156
    Loboc

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:56 pm)

    They would just spoof another address or use a different stealth proxy.

    If you want to really get rid of them (think it’s only one person?) don’t reply and don’t click the neg button. It just encourages them. Totally ignored is totally irrelevant.


  157. 157
    SpankYourMonkey

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (3:59 pm)

    That was reserved for interviewing the GM engineers for the Volt.


  158. 158
    SpankYourMonkey

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:02 pm)

    The fishbowl/EV-1 indicates GM drowning and sinking to the bottom of the “Industrial” food chain.


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    N Riley

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:03 pm)

    I see it doesn’t take much to make you “happy” and “all smiles”. Must be your sunny disposition. Laughing is always good for you. Well, most of the time.


  160. 160
    N Riley

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:09 pm)

    You go that right, Mitch. But, if you park them both side by side, the use the exact same amount of fuel while parked. Now, that actually blows my mind!


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    N Riley

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:11 pm)

    You can’t trick him into taking that job, or any job. He is afraid the water might get over his head and flush out the remaining muddy water left in his brain cavity. Poor thing.


  162. 162
    N Riley

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:13 pm)

    Well, good for you, Roger. At least you will know where your next meal is coming from.


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    Loboc

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:14 pm)

    I guess that being open about your future products doesn’t pay so well with some.

    chevroletvoltage.com has some more videos. Interesting stuff for Volt fans.

    This car is going to production. Not much could stop it at this point.


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    N Riley

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:15 pm)

    Tex-Arl,

    Not need to try to explain. He has to have something between his ears to catch words and process them first. Poor thing has a large vacant area there.


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    DaveP

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:22 pm)

    I’ve driven through a rainstorm like that. It was in Hawaii :)
    (I also walked through a rainstorm like that in Hawaii. (They come up really fast!) Fortunately it was very warm…)

    That is an interesting tidbit of information about the Volt battery (and EV1) water testing. Thanks, Lyle.


  166. 166
    csmcg

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:27 pm)

    jeffhre,

    Training and the docs _never_ keep up with what is on the road. Combine that with the fact that every wreck is a new vehicle type as the vehicle has been modified in a way not replicated before. We constantly ‘try it’ without specific knowledge.

    We do use guidelines and general knowledge regarding tactics. Things like:

    * Where the service disconnects are usually found and what they usually look like.
    * Killing the 12v systems (when they exist) as this shuts down the big voltage relays.

    Muddy, GM has been good in the past about providing ERG data. I would expect that to continue with the Volt and other GM next-gen vehicles.

    Regards


  167. 167
    jeffhre

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:32 pm)

    It takes an unusual mentality to do the job, but they are trained to ensure that the environment is safe to begin rescue operations with the tools available. It’s often stressed that you can’t do anyone any good if you are injured or killed as well.

    The mentality of running toward gunshots or into burning buildings instead of the other direction is unusual, but just plain crazy is quickly weeded out in professions where complicated decisions must be made in life or death situations.


  168. 168
    Jim I

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:35 pm)

    If we are going to go back in time fo9r underwater cars, how about this one?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL2vaSNbPbo&feature=PlayList&p=E08B1E1D3CA16C41&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10

    ;-)


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    fred

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:41 pm)

    Is lithium recyclable or does it get used up?


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    jeffhre

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:45 pm)

    csmcg, I have nothing but admiration for you and the professional attitude you take. But I can’t blame someone who hasn’t been properly trained for not taking an undue risk of their own life in a situation with unknown dangers. I expect training budgets to fall farther behind until we are well past the recession.


  171. 171
    csmcg

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (4:58 pm)

    jeffhre,

    No worries. Not looking for admiration. Just trying to contribute to the discussion.

    You brought up an interesting issue (to me at least). New stuff is scary. Electricity and water is scary.

    I would not blame a responder for refusing a task related to 300v+ DC sitting at the bottom of an irrigation ditch…

    Regards


  172. 172
    old man

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:01 pm)

    h8gm

    Please watch the video clip before commenting. You might be taken off the list of unschooled if you did.


  173. 173
    Scrappy DooDoo

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:02 pm)

    So does this test offer an ‘Value Added’ anything to the car when Katrina hits again and floods my car.
    Nope, it’s just another waste of more public money.
    Sam ol’ GM, nothing changed.


  174. 174
    WopOnTour

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:02 pm)

    GM has been directly providing “First Responders” with training modules on all of their airbag and hybrid technologies for years. I see no reason why that wouldn’t continue with the Volt.

    No doubt they will recommend the IGN switch/button be place in the OFF position and ALL underhood cables carrying the “CUT HERE” (aka fireman’s helmet) labels be cut, and/or the manual disconnect service lever removed. Sure sometimes there are extenuating circumstances affecting one or more of these steps but multiple redundancy will minimize risk.

    If both the HV+ and HV- rails are shorted to each other, there’s gonna be SPARKS (and very likely one of the myriad of fused components will let go alleviating the danger) If just ONE of the + or – HV circuits were shorted out (to the chassis for instance) you would STILL have to simultaneously touch the “other half” of the electrical equation in order to become electrically engaged in the circuit.

    FYI-In a previous thread that showed the interface plate of the Volt battery I posted info on the identification of the various connections and the location of the manual disconnect levers (yes in this case levers not lever)
    http://gm-volt.com/2009/08/05/gm-leaning-towards-selling-volt-without-leasing-battery-seperately/
    WopOnTour


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    old man

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:09 pm)

    mother

    I think you are using several names as I find it hard to believe that, that many would post pure crap about something they have not watched. If you have watched it then I am sorry for your lack of ability to understand what they were doing.

    I will go so far as to say I think all cars go through such a test as it must be the fastest way to find problem areas.


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    old man

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:13 pm)

    I think it is the same ding dong


  177. 177
    nuclearboy

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:17 pm)

    On a serious note, it is good that GM is testing this. It is not unheard of to have to run through 8-12 inches on a flooded street. Given the Volts battery location, it better be fairly water tight.


  178. 178
    Koz

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:32 pm)

    Cool!!!

    On the surface this looks like a much better prospect for future Voltecs than diesel or HCCI. Lighter, smaller, potentially cheaper, less polluting than diesel, and just as efficient. I wonder if the noise/vibration characteristics are a good fit too.


  179. 179
    Andy Dick

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:32 pm)

    GM begins to remove “Mark of Excellence” from ALL ITS VEHICLES !

    It about damn time. That logo was recognized as a worldwide joke.

    Maybe, just maybe, GM is changing. Fingers crossed.


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    Andy Dick

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:36 pm)

    Lithium is definitely recyclable, I use it daily to calm my nerves. Works wonders. I never leave home without my Li.


  181. 181
    Xiaowei1

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:38 pm)

    Power to him, however not having a “recall” doesn’t mean BYD batteries do not fail. The big problem is consistency of quality of components is more obvious in larger car battery packs.

    i don’t know the exact sales figures now, but the F3DM as of April 2009 they had only sold 80 units.
    http://www.chinacartimes.com/2009/04/14/byd-f3dm-sales-officially-poor/

    As for your comment “if the customers want and pay for high quality, they will build to that level.” This does not really work well in China – it’s not absent, but it does not work well. You need to understand the market there, the lack of regulations, and training used inside the work place. The competitiveness means you have to build cheap. To build cheap you use dodgy quality and cheap unskilled labour… but don’t worry as it was so cheap, you can just buy another one when it breaks. if you want quality, look for a foreign made item (especially cars). Even if they try to build a quality item, who is to say the material they get for the production is of the quality required – the samples may be great, but even your suppliers are hunting for bargains for their own components… everyone is trying to cut down on costs to compete and the market is just so unregulated.

    This is the problem BYD are facing, there is low consistency in the quality of the components they buy from suppliers, hence the problem putting together large car batteries with the same consistency of quality so it operates like it should. So, BYD have had a large failure rate in the batteries and this is due to inconsistency of quality but it does not mean they have to “recall” all their batteries, they can however replace them and still say “we have not ‘recalled’ any batteries”


  182. 182
    Johnny Python

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:42 pm)

    It’s alright if you have a leak, just wear a raincoat. Practice safe driving when behind the wheel of your Volt. We don’t want a bunch of little Voltsters running around would we.


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    Noel Park

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:42 pm)

    Yeah, and how about the word “underwater”? At least I always try to say “no pun intended”, LOL.

    I really miss statik projecting out the cash burn rate to “tap city”. Given the product line they have to sell at the moment, and the end of “cash for clunkers”, I feel like something is sneaking up behind us. If they have to go back to the taxpayer well again, I think it’s really going to be tough.

    Dr. Dennis:

    Could that be the subject of a statik thread?


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    Noel Park

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:46 pm)

    That’s what I’m talking about. It is fun. You guys are doing great.

    When we were kids, one of the favorite “chops” was “I’d challenge you to a battle of wits, but I never fight an unarmed man.” As statik would say, “hehehe”.


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    Carcus1

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:50 pm)

    Off topic:

    Vauxhall (Opel) has a product that beats 40 mpg (with 3,500# towing capacity!) —

    . .. sort of(EU cycle 44.7 mpg, U.S. mpg),

    /http://green.autoblog.com/2009/08/25/vauxhall-releases-new-insignia-ecoflex-sports-tourer-with-under/


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    Luke

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (5:59 pm)

    It is quite interesting — thanks!


  187. 187
    Xiaowei1

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (6:03 pm)

    Exactly what do you mean by “more experience”. if you are referring to the F3DM, the production was rushed and is selling like… errr…. well like, ammm… well in June they sold 19 units so all that experience is paying off i see.

    Sure its just to companies and the government, but anyone that can afford a new car will buy it though a company for the right off on tax, and i need not say how big the government is there. I do wish them luck though, and i am looking forward to seeing the F6.

    Now there are other electric car manufactures, but where do you think they all get their technology? for example, Chery A5 hybrid sedan is also a hybrid just released in January this year, but they got assistance from British engineering firm, Ricardo, and is only a mild hybrid (with a Belt Driven Starter Generator – where the starter motor is slightly larger than usual, and allows the car’s engine to be turned off when coasting, braking, or stopped).

    Sooooo, can you point to the “BYD has more experience with producing Electric cars”? I’m quite interest in finding out more.


  188. 188
    statik

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (6:04 pm)

    I’m BAAAAAAAAAAACK……..NOT !


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    Taser

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (6:11 pm)

    The Volt is your own personal stun gun. When pointing toward your prey make sure you want to inflict serious damage.


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    Tagamet

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (6:48 pm)

    Ditto on the request for an IP block (assuming it’s one person). Like Lyle has nothing to do with his many free seconds/day (g).
    At this point I’m looking forward to tomorrow’s thread. No idea what it’ll be about, but I do know that it’ll have something VOLT related.
    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS


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    Ed M

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (7:07 pm)

    well I’m glad they tested for this, This will be a great help the next time I’m drunk and try to park in the swimming pool


  192. 192
    nuclearboy

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (7:34 pm)

    I really like the wagons. They have been all but replaced in the US with the CUV’s. You should be able to get better mileage with these lower profile vehicles and they are easier to throw stuff on the roof.

    GM staff. Think Malibu Wagon….


  193. 193
    Xiaowei1

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:15 pm)

    All they have to do now is actually sell some… Actually, the EV you speak of (the F3DM), is more of a Prius by design (although it is a plug in). It’s a hybrid, not an EV. Once you hit a given speed the motor assist will kick in; though credit to them for pulling it off so quickly.

    I do wish BDY all the best, but the product is not an EV. Hopefully they will correct this latter.


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    Jackson

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:49 pm)

    In case you’re not the troll, Fred; it is believed that Lithium can be recycled from old large-format (automotive) cells.


  195. 195
    Jackson

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:53 pm)

    Lyle;

    You could stop most of this troll nonsense by requiring a valid email address to post (send an activation key to that address).

    No, I don’t know the details of how to set it up, but lots of sites do it this way. Since you can’t take the time to moderate posts, this might be a pretty good gnat screen to put on the door.


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    Jackson

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:55 pm)

    On topic (sort of):

    Didja hear about the screen door on the submarine?

    Don’t laugh, it keeps the fish out.


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    Jackson

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (8:57 pm)

    Are you volunteering to be the ‘dummy?’ It’s clear you have plenty of experience.


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    Mark Z

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (9:05 pm)

    The EV-1 in the fish bowl looks cute and visualizes the topic well. A more appropriate container would be a beaker of water to illustrate the industrial laboratory tests that GM is conducting on the electric car batteries.

    Thanks again Lyle, for another great topic of discussion!


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    Jeff

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:11 pm)

    Will the Volt handle the water test in this video?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrk6vsb77xk

    If you do not want to see the other tests, the water test starts at 3:00 minutes….continue watching until the engine starts.


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    steel

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:14 pm)

    I have no doubt a Chinese company -can- produce high quality goods including cars.

    But to do so, they must be willing to hire expensive experience labour from top (Engineering/Design) to bottom. Buy quality materials, with quality QA and robust process development.

    Once that is done, the “Cheap” Chinese good/car is no longer really any cheaper than most manufacturers.


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    Tex-Arl

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:14 pm)

    N Riley

    You said it well. Some people just have their head where the sun has never shined.

    He must be unhappy.


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    Tex-Arl

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (10:56 pm)

    Why would you make such a stupid comment. It just shows how ignorant you are!!!!!!!!!!!


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    csmcg

     

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:33 pm)

    Zing! Nice shot. I heard the ricochet from way over here :)


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    csmcg

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    Aug 25th, 2009 (11:45 pm)

    WopOnTour,

    Thanks for revisiting the topic and providing the information concerning the connectors. I also have the nagging feeling that I should be thanking you for some of the well written ERG docs that come out of GM…

    You wrote: “the pair of smaller 2 wire orange connectors under the larger terminals are part of what’s called the HV Interlock circuit. It’s a secondary safety system that consists of a current monitored series circuit that routes through various “access” covers and elements that further act to improve safety from unintentional exposure to the HV source.”

    Does this mean (for example) if the hood is open, that the HV is dead? Would water immersion of any of the covers or elements trigger the HV disconnect?

    Regards


  205. 205
    WopOnTour

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (12:34 am)

    Actually no, not the hood switch itself. I know what you’re likely thinking- just open the hood and we’re “good to go for extrication” but it doesnt quite work that way on any of the current GM hybrids and likely wont for the Volt either. However removal almost any of the underhood access covers where you see the “orange” colored warning labels or cables WILL generally open circuit the HV Interlock Circuit (HVIC). But unfortunately these covers generally employ tamper proof fasteners making quick removal somewhat complicated. But there’s usually an HVIC pass-though on any manual service disconnect lever, HV battery source to cable connector and/or cover, and various 3-phase transmission covers as well.

    Moisture probably wont affect those connections much as they are using sealed connector technologies on most non-interior HVIC jumpers and the ECU monitoring structure is current (not voltage) based and would require significant shorting to affect it.

    Best thing to do is to continue to follow the ERGs provided directly from GM for rendering the vehicle safe. and rememeber to CUT ONLY AND ALL those “specially marked” cables! DO NOT just disconnect the 12V battery (which looks simple/fast becauseof the new quick-lock cable ends) as the Accessory Power Module will continue to pump out ~15V to all parts of the 12V system even with the 12V source disconnected!
    Stay Safe!


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    Electrical Power Testing Products

     

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (1:18 am)

    Testing every devices and equipments we have before using it is a necessary thing so as to avoid certain harm in the future.


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    Mitch

     

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (7:55 am)

    Sorry..humourous response for the protection of sponges….I know you did not direct at me…

    Kinda like calling hinm an idiot is an isult to idiots…I was thinking of the sponges


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    Mitch

     

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (8:19 am)

    same ole troll…


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    Mitch

     

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (8:22 am)

    only if you close it


  210. [...] the water for safety, proving GM’s not the only automaker testing its EVs in this manner. [Source: GM-Volt.com]Continue reading Q&A: What happens if the Chevy Volt sleeps with the fishes?Q&A: What [...]


  211. [...] [&#83ou&#114c&#101: GM-&#86olt.co&#109] [...]


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    Q&A: What happens if the Chevy Volt sleeps with the fishes?

     

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (2:12 pm)

    [...] [Source: GM-Volt.com] [...]


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    csmcg

     

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (2:22 pm)

    WopOnTour,

    Thank you very much for the info. We do follow the ERGs as best we can given whatever the situation.

    I suffer from being an engineer in my day job so knowing how things work under the skin really helps me devise tactics on scene. Thanks again.

    Regards


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    WopOnTour

     

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (2:40 pm)

    np you’re welcome
    Hopefully all of the OEM hybrid data will eventually make it into some of the various “on scene” guides like Holmatro. In the meantime if you shoot me an email to wopontour@gmail.com I’ll hook you up with additional GM hybrid data for First Responders.(hopefully that you already have ;)
    WOT


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    Ricky Bobby

     

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (9:24 pm)

    Current travels in the shortest path…. thats why birds don’t get shocked on the line. Current will not go out of the pack, way out to the people and then back to the pack. Thats even if it doesn’t shut down first.


  216. [...] [Source: GM-Volt.com] [...]


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    Chevy Volt Takes a Dive - for Safety! : Gas 2.0

     

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    Aug 31st, 2009 (1:07 pm)

    [...] GM took those concerns to heart, and released some rare “behind-the-scenes” commentary on the car’s underwater testing on GM’s VoltAge blog. [...]


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    Chevy Volt Takes a Dive – for Safety! | AvailableGreenEnergy

     

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    Sep 1st, 2009 (12:06 am)

    [...] GM took those concerns to heart, and released some rare “behind-the-scenes” commentary on the car’s underwater testing on GM’s VoltAge blog. [...]


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    Chevy Volt Takes a Dive – for Safety!

     

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    Sep 1st, 2009 (6:07 pm)

    [...] GM took those concerns to heart, and released some rare “behind-the-scenes” commentary on the car’s underwater testing on GM’s VoltAge blog. [...]


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    Zahar

     

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    Sep 5th, 2009 (10:47 pm)

    Один совет, который хочу дать, это то, что надо поменьше глупостей писать, а то скоро всему верить будут :)