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Chevy Volt Underwater Testing

August 25th, 2009 | Posted in: Battery, Prototypes, Safety

I previously had a discussion with Lance Turner, lead engineer in the Volt battery lab who also worked on the EV-1 program.

I asked him if there are any special considerations about the Volt and its high power battery getting exposed to water, such as in a flood, or accident where the car gets submerged.

Lance advised me that the battery pack is, although not hermetically sealed, sealed to be maximally waterproof. Special attention is given to the connection between the high voltage lines coming out of the front of the pack to the inverter, and these are sealed especially well. The pack also has the means of detecting water seeping into the pack allowing it to shut down.

Lance described one way the EV-1 was water tested. GM actually put a working EV-1 inside a large vat of sea-water, because it contains electrolyte and in theory one could drive into it.

Once the car was in, it was turned on and the seawater was gradually added. There was an extensive system of monitors including current detectors placed over test dummies in the seats, and noxious gas detectors.

As soon as the water level reached the battery, it shut down. There were some crackles and pops sounds, but in the end no significant current flowed into the dummies.

Will this be applied to the Volt? We’ll have to wait and see.

Below is a new video GM released along the same theme showing the Volt IVer prototypes getting soaked in a test chamber. This of course isn’t to test the battery’s safety underwater but to check the final Volt design for leaks so that they can be fixed.

Posted by: Lyle

220 Responses to “Chevy Volt Underwater Testing”

+6 Dave K. Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 6:14 am

A water tight Volt is sure to provide a very quiet driving experience. Wonder if BYD is going through this level of quality assurance?

=D~
-1 Herm Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 6:20 am

Probably so, and perhaps even more extensive testing.. dont forget BYD is also a large battery manufacturer and they understand batteries.

Salt water immersion would be nasty in any car, probably instant irreversible death for the Volts battery pack. There would be some vigorous hydrogen generation during the salt water immersion, perhaps an explosion danger if enough hydrogen accumulated.. but that would be unlikely.

The aluminum tabs on the actual battery pouches would dissolve very quickly, and soon after the cell would be rendered inert.
+12 FME III Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 6:25 am

Herm, you may be right, but after the series of tainted-product scandals coming out of China, I’m more inclined to think that BYD will not be as thorough. Yes, they may know batteries, but when it comes to building cars, there’s no way they have GM’s 100 years of accumulated know-how acquired through trial and error.
+1 Schmeltz Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 6:26 am

This is good that safety with the presence of water is being considered. One situation I thought of, is when you drive the Volt into your home garage with rain and slush or snow melting off the exterior, and you go to plug-in the car. How is GM designing safety into the charging of the vehicle in that situation? Nasaman has little to worry about here, but us Northerners may have reason to be concerned.
+3 Rashiid Amul Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 6:36 am

In the on-line chat the other day, the answer to you question is, no problem.
————
http://gm-volt.com/2009/08/20/charging-the-chevy-volt/

Question: Asked at 2:18 from (whowhere).
Assume I am charging my Volt now outside, then it starts raining, any safety issue in the rain?

Answer:
Gery Kissel: No. Adhering to the J1772 standard, we incorporate multiple levels of shock protection into the design, thus it will be safe to operate in any environmental condition.
+2 nuclearboy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 6:39 am

And less face it, plugging the Volt in during crappy (a word from my graduate meterology class) weather is going to be a bigger issue for those parking on the street.
+1 Schmeltz Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 6:54 am

Thanks Rashiid. I missed that. I would assume that the engineers would take stuff like this into consideration but then you probably know what happens when one assumes anything…LOL.
+4 Xiaowei1 Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 7:02 am

BYD may be a large battery manufacturer, but they are pretty new to cars, and battery packs for same. they have to contend with the problem of the quality inconsistency of different products they use for their car batteries which are much larger than the mobile phone batteries they are used to. BYD really have to address their battery packs high failure rate before they should think about such extensive testing of their cars.
+2 Rashiid Amul Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 7:11 am

Oh, so true Schmeltz.

Trust me. I am an expert at making an A$$ of myself.

Like you, I have to worry about the weather also.
Snow, ice, rain, sleet, etc. The question stuck in my head because it was important to me. I’m glad GM thought of this and made it safe for all environments.
+5 Joe Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 7:14 am

As I was writing this, i found the above is almost a duplicate. Yes, I agree with you.

I seriously doubt GM’s competition is going the extra mile for the safety of their electric cars. Tesla is an example. Being a start-up company, there is no way they have the equiptment and expertise in bringing a car like the Volt to market.

Go Volt Go!!
+4 Joe Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 7:16 am

Ground fault interrupters I’m sure will be used. Just like what is used for swimming pools.
+1 Shock Me Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 7:18 am

Yes I was going to ask about sub-zero weather where the plug has been in all night and maybe iced over but we ran out of time in the live chat.

(I’m hoping waste heat will keep the line defrosted so the car doesn’t end up frozen to it’s leash. I hope the Volt will heat the plug, windows, seats, and door locks an hour before I leave.)
+1 Rashiid Amul Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 7:26 am

I seem to remember a bunch of us talking about this a year ago.
What I can’t remember is whether or not we figured out if the car will do this. We talked about a schedule, where we could tell the car that at a certain time, heat up the interior and battery while plugged in.
I wish I could remember if GM said this will be possible. Sorry. This brain is really useless sometimes.
+1 Adrian Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 7:38 am

If the new system is designed right and installed right, there shouldn’t be an issue.
nuclearboy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 7:41 am

I was thinking about multiple 8 foot ($1.99) lamp quality extension cords running accross the wet lawn to the Volt charging unit. The Volt charging unit will be wll designed but it may be laying in the mud connected to a cheap cord for some.

I am thinking Chevy Chase in Christmas vacation with the cluster of plugs for the Christmas lights.
+6 dorp7 Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 7:41 am

I’d much rather see the phrase “instant irreversible death” applied to the battery than to the passengers…
Jason M. Hendler Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:04 am

Here is a true underwater BEV:

http://auto.commongate.com/post/Lotus_convertible_goes_underwater/
+3 Dan Petit Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:16 am

You cannot have multiple extension cords.

I remember a service call I provided a Motor Home owner who was short of funding to get a proper 30 amp 25 foot extension cable for his motor home.

“Both roof AC’s were inoperative”, he said, and he was worried about how that would impact his resale price.

I came out and found that the RV 30 amp service cable was connected to a 30 amp-to-15 amp adapter. That, in turn, was connected to an extension cord that was rated at 15 Amp service (12 gauge). That in turn, was connected to a smaller extension cord that was rated at 10 amp capacity (14 gauge).

Over at the outside outlet, the entire duplex outlet was black with overload carbon (it was originally white).

“You can’t do this!” I said. “You overloaded the AC’s by undersupplying amperage.” “You can have an overload on the demand side, which can blow a fuse.” “And, you can have an overload on the supply side, which can harm the electrical devices ALL of which need proper power, amps and volts, at ALL times when they need it, especially when it is hot both inside the coach (115 degrees), as well as outside at the condenser up there on the roof (at 115 degrees).”

“A 15 amp normal-load rated roof AC can initially-require 19 amps in these conditions”. “You have two of them up there, and, you could be initially-demanding 38 amps through a 10 amp “bottleneck” with these wimpy extension cords”.

“Peak volts and adequate amps are everything when lots of work needs to be done.”

Fortunately for him, all I needed to do was to remove the interior intake covers and reset the processors in each of the Roof AC’s. For most others, the compressor just overloads and overheats to the point of failure.

No extension cords for Volt chargers that are not GM approved in both capacity as well as length. Even though those extension cord tags “list” they have that capacity, they in fact do not at all have that capacity long-term time-use wise, even if there is only an 8 Amp requirement by the Volt charging system. The protections of the charge cord are specific to HOW the charge cord is installed and specifically HOW and WHERE the Volt is connected to it, not just because it is there (somewhere in the circuit).

(Yikes! 8:16 am. Off to work! Have a great day all!!)
+1 Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:46 am

For some reason, I’m reminded of Homer Simpson taking an electric car on a test drive underwater: “It’s electric, isn’t it?” …and then returning it to the dealership smoking and sparking.

Or years ago, radio commentator Paul Harvey observing:
“Who will be first to drive an electric car … (they’re coming, you know) … Who will be first to drive an electric car … into … a Car Wash? Page two …”
CorvetteGuy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:55 am

It never rains in Southern California
+2 Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:56 am

I’ve seen my share of nightmare extension cord scenarios. My ‘favorite’ was a commercial freezer plugged into a light fixture with a screw-in to plug adapter and a 3-wire to 2-wire plug.

He had to be constantly alert to reset the breaker.

No, I don’t know how the restaurant kept from burning down.
+1 CorvetteGuy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:58 am

If James Bond can do it with a Lotus Esprit, then Bob Lutz can do it with Chevy VOLT!
Herm Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:58 am

Wang Chuan-Fu, the CEO of BYD very proudly says that his batteries are the only ones that did not have a recall, and BYD makes a lot of batteries .. regarding quality of the cars, if the customers want and pay for high quality, they will build to that level.
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:58 am

You have THAT right!

Thanks for the laugh!
Carcus1 Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:01 am

meh. .. . .

it’s been done already — back in about ‘56.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyJiA3BbKLo
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:06 am

I wonder if I can run my Malibu through that water chamber… I was looking at the poor filthy hood of the car on the way to work and it occured to me that I couldn’t see the paint colour!

900 gallons a minute should knock the dust off!
-18 Build Your Dream Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:08 am

(click to show comment)

BYD does have extensive testing facilities that are among the most advanced in the World. I doubt GM small shop test is comparable. They have the world’s first mass produced EV for a reason. Don’t knock what you don’t understand. Wisdom is not a strong suit of the posters here that is a given.
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:11 am

I hadn’t watched that in years!

Mr Magoo is the MAN!

Thanks Carcus1!
+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:14 am

The Volt is a fine looking car and much more practical but is there anything more pretty than the Esprit mark 1?
Rob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:15 am

On a related matter: A friend of mine who’s a first-responder in Florida – which is criss-crossed with drainage canals – told me that, when it comes to hybrid vehicles in the drink, the unwritten rule among her colleagues is to STAY AWAY, for fear of being fried.
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:17 am

No Name is out from under the bridge early today.
Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:21 am

I’ve heard that vehicles (and their drivers) are sometimes listed as missing for years before someone decides to go through and clean out one or another of those canals …
+2 Starcast Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:24 am

Shockingly, I will agree to be the first to drive a volt into a car wash!

That means I get to drive volt! :>)
+2 MarkinWI Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:28 am

Yeah, but will the Volt’s extension cord and battery pack be brush-fire proof?
-1 Jo Jo Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:29 am

I hope the Volt ICE can hold up underwater. Ha Ha. Me thinks NOT.

FAIL
Loboc Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:32 am

I’d be more worried about AIR than electricity if under water!

Although I did read once on the Darwin Awards site about an electrician that electocuted himself with a 9v battery. He was measuring his body’s electrical resistance with a VOM and stopped his heart!

In the future, power outlets will all be ’smart’ and not allow stupid human tricks. GFCI is just the bare minimum. There shouldn’t be any power unless a proper plug and load is attached. Paper clips and such shouldn’t activate the outlet.

It looks like Volt charging cords have some intellegence in design and implementation. I’m glad they changed from the ‘orange extension cord’ charging scenario that was visible in early videos.
-15 Roger Ramjet Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:32 am

(click to show comment)

The keyword is “designed” which is not a strength of GM. Never has been. Look for gen2 of Volt to fix a lot of poorly designed Volt components. You heard it here first. No Charge for the heads up.
-29 Roger Ramjet Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:35 am

(click to show comment)

Stupid Statement. Tesla Roadster will run circles around the Volt sedan. You are a clown. I enjoyed the laugh though.
+4 MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:36 am

Troll alert.
+8 MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:38 am

Our troll gets that a $140k sports car can go faster than a $40k commuter car…

Guess it’s all that experience living under the bridge.
Tall Pete Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:39 am

But elsewhere in the country, we do have a lot of rain, and snow, and cold…
Tagamet Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:40 am

nuclearboy
In the chat I think they mentioned that the Volt cord itself will be 20 feet long. That’s a good start.
Be well,
Tagamet

Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:41 am

That beats my story of an office where 8 cubicals were serviced off 1 15 amp plug with a chain of power bars…

Strangely it was reliable…
-19 Roger Ramjet Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:42 am

(click to show comment)

If you have any reservations about using Volt “tested” equipment you might just try the superior Toyota Prius plug-in equipment which is the gold standard and should work with the Volt and a few other GM upcoming vehicles. Also the Prius EV accessories will be much cheaper in addition to ruggedness that is currently beyond Volt capabilities.
Tagamet Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:42 am

Jackson
The film leading this piece looked like a super car-wash (but I guess that that was your point).
Be well,
Tagamet

Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:44 am

It seems to me that there is likely a fail-safe internal safety that would drain the battery across a big resistor (?) in short order were a worst case scenario to occur.
+7 Dwayne Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:45 am

What a dumb statemate to make – GMs design capability is much, much greater that Tesla’s. I am all for Tesla but lets not pretend that their car has anywhere near the engineering that the Volt has. Not even close!
-3 Scooter Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:49 am

That must be some really old Roof AC stuff. Most smart people now use DC-powered air conditioning that have no current surges like the old-school AC powered models. These are 12VDC systems but most people wire them for 24VDC so that they can use much higher gauge (thinner) wires. Anyway anyone still using AC powered air conditioning in a RV, Van or 18-Wheeler is just plain stupid.
-3 Roger Moore Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:54 am

Underwater Volt Testing

That is hilarious, they must be trying out for the next Bond movie. I laughed so hard I almost made a deposit in my depends.
-11 Speed Triple Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:01 am

(click to show comment)

Leave it to the New GM to waste more tax payer money on foolish testing. That car does have a gas engine don’t it ? I thought so. woot.
+5 MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:03 am

Calling someone stupid for running what they have is pretty judgemental.

Sharing information about newer equipment is appreciated though.
EMT Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:05 am

That is correct. You will not see emergency crews near HIGH VOLTAGE. I believe the Volt has a few hundred volts or so under the hood and this could spell trouble for some of those unfortunate victims (errr i mean owners).
+7 N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:19 am

Dave K,

As with all Chinese made products they are fully tested and contain only the very best ingredients for the happiest consumer experiences. China would accept nothing else. Now, if you believe that, I have some ocean view land I want to sell you in Wyoming.
Tagamet Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:20 am

Rashiid,
I know that the battery will automatically warm itself from the plug, but I don’t know about the interior heating. I know you can schedule when the battery will charge through the middle console.
Be well,
Tagamet

Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
+5 csmcg Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:20 am

After attending half a dozen extrication classes specifically about hybrid and electric vehicles, plus having recently cut someone out of a hybrid, I have decided that I would rather deal with batteries than with pools of gasoline.
Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:22 am

You know where you can stick that proton energy pill, RR
+3 Gary Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:23 am

I don’t think that government fleet and taxi companies really equates to mass production. Selling to the public is mass production.
Mitch Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:23 am

Off topic

Here is an intersting look by Top Gear at the Prius vs a BMW M3…mileage wise…

Its all how you drive….

http://www.fark.com/cgi/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=4595664
+2 Gary Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:25 am

(Rolling Eyes)
+1 Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:28 am

No more than can the ICE in any other car, doofus. (Oops, have I just selected your next ‘handle?’)
Gary Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:28 am

I don’t think that we can expect any motor, in any car–be it gas or electric–to be designed to be submerged under normal operating conditions.
+3 Gary Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:29 am

(Rolling Eyes) (Again)
Carcus1 Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:33 am

I don’t think “certain types” of extension cords have ever garnered too much respect.

http://www.scodal.com/uploads1/whore.gif
+5 Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:34 am

It’s brilliant in it’s simplicity –

The Chinese have come up with a foolproof way to dispose of toxic waste — export it!
+1 Tex-Arl Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:35 am

This water testing is not to test the battery. It is normal water testing to verify integrity of the body to the normal rain, carwash, road spray types of water .

All assembly plants run the body assembly thru these “water test” units to provide a “water tight” body to the customer.
+2 Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:36 am

Never mind that, will it be earthquake-and-landslide resistant?
-5 Brutus Beefcake Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:40 am

Many years ago I had a dream while I was tanning my six-pack on the beach….

To my horror I was brutally awakened by the sound of a white Chevy Volt (okay back then it was a Lotus) driving out of the ocean onto the beach and heading straight for me. Then all of the sudden the driver pulls like 3 feet away from my rock hard abs and rolls down the window wearing a tuxedo and promptly throws a stinking fish on my belly. I was shell shocked and immediately woke up only to realize this was just a dream.

I will never forget that sunny California day on the beach, and the mexican weed was outstanding.
+2 V=IR Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:41 am

There was an extensive system of monitors including current detectors placed over test dummies in the seats….

We’ve got a job for you No-name. Sure we’ll miss you, but it is for the greater good.
+2 Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:44 am

If you don’t get help at Charter, get help somewhere.
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:48 am

Well there IS the Otto engine in a torpedo… It burns a rather toxic stew with oxidizers included instead of just gasoline though.

Definately not a car though!
-1 Timaaayyy!!! Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:04 am

bloop, bloop, bloop, look, the GM stock certificates are down here! In Sponge Bob’s house.

He and Diver Dan want to order a Volt, but they’re worried about the destination charge.
-11 Billy Bob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:05 am

(click to show comment)

BYD has more experience with production Electric cars than GM has so dont be too coy about GM experience.
old man Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:07 am

Speed Triple

You should have watched the clip before you posted.You wouldn’t look quite so bad. You know, be informed prior to shooting off your mouth.
Jim in PA Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:17 am

Why did I think this story was going to end with a declaration of your hatred for monkeys?

I will now press “Submit Comment” with my strong and shockingly well-defined index finger.
+1 Timaaayyy!!! Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:22 am

just a little lol on a sunny day
+2 Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:24 am

Sell stuff cheap enough and the suckers will buy it.
Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:26 am

Call for Jake!
+1 Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:29 am

I saw a cool new political term yesterday, “astroturfing”. That’s where vocal demonstrators who appear to be “grassroots” activists are actually orchestrated by corporations and PR firms.
Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:32 am

LOL from LA.
+1 Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:34 am

csmcg:

Got that right.
Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:36 am

Gary:

The way it’s going today, I’m concerned that you will end up with a headache from too much eye rolling. Careful, it can happen.
+1 Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:40 am

I nominate this for the funniest thread in GM-Volt.com history. I actually did LOL. Jim in PA and Timaaayyy!!! finally provided the critical mass.

Well done guys.
Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:48 am

Having attended more than a few salvage car auctions, I can tell you that ANY car, conventional ICE, hybrid, or otherwise, which is submerged in water is INSTANTLY declared a total loss by insurance companies. It doesn’t matter if it’s salt or fresh water, or the result of a flood, or accidentally driving into a lake, canal, river, or the ocean. It’s history.

Trying to fix them is not cost effective, and undetected problems tend to continue to show up forever. They just don’t want the headache.

After Katrina, the huge number of “flood” cars which came to the junk market was astonishing. A few of them got bootlegged back into the car market. Pity the poor souls who got stuck with them.
nuclearboy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:58 am

I am just having some fun thinking of the poor knucklehead plugging in his volt from about 150 feet away using a series of cheap around the home extension cords.

20 feet will be just about perfect for the average garage.

For those others who will be on the street, its anything goes.
+1 nuclearboy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

I had an old CanAm dirt bike back in the 80s that I ran through streems up to the gas tank. It had an air intake high near the handle bars and the ignition still worked underwater.
+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

Here in the north there is usually a plug in infrastructure for block heaters in the winter.
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

Off topic but interesting.

A possible genset engine for the Volt SS?

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/08/five-stroke-engine/
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

Off road good times!

My discovery is good for 46 inches of water, but I’m careful to stay well short of that…
Streetlight Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

First this video shows impressive test facilities. But if there isn’t, shouldn’t there be an SAE spec on EV water resistance? As to the battery enclosure not being hermetically sealed – lots of questions are raised. Of course as Argonne Lab points out in their EV standards presentation slide; the mfgs. don’t supply proprietary data. Water comes in many flavors – so does sea water. Flooding is one of many forms of pressure source. What’s more, batteries aren’t the only at risk component. There’s drive motor(s). The EV gots to continue propulsion under any water conditions. Is the preprogrammed water shut-down a hardship waiting to happen?
Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

Yup.
Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

When is this thing supposed to hit the showrooms, again?

On a positive note, perhaps “no name” will get tired of us by then.
Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:35 pm

“Ilmor Engineering, a firm that is co-owned by Roger Penske…”

Shades of Saturn?!
+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

Nov 2010 for production start, so add 6 weeks to finish and ship them so ‘maybe’ Christmas 2010, but more likely Jan-Feb 2011 before they show up locally.

I’d REALLY like Lyle to trace no-names IP address…
+1 Luke Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

Neither one is available to the public yet, so I’d hesitate to judge.

Our Prius is a nice vehicle, but Toyota’s thing is incremental improvement. The Volt isn’t an incremental change, it’s a moonshot… I think it’s fascinating how the two designs reflect the cultures of the companies that create them, and I hope they both work out. Hopefully I’ll get to test-drive both!
+2 Mike-o-Matic Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

Hey Rob, no need to go to such an extreme, they got these groovy things nowadays called a “car wash”… all you gotta do is feed it a few bucks and drive in! Problem solved.
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

The same, makes for some interesting possibilities!
+1 CorvetteGuy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

If this works out, just imagine the military applications!

A whole fleet of EREV – Electric Submarines!

http://www.ussubs.com/

Cool.
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

Ya I know, but the car is REALLY dirty and It just looked like fun to beat on a car like that!

There ARE advantages to older cars… a little dent or scratch is called “personality”!

The regular car wash will likely do a stand in soon though.
Luke Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

Huh, I wonder how they deal with all of the other vehicles and situations that feature high voltage now… Or are you saying that hybrid drivers never get into accidents, and that nobody has ever been injured by mains power? And that no has ever been injured by high voltage electricity on the job?

BTW, if you’re interested in these issues, here’s a manual written by Toyota for emergency response personnel:
https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/staticcontent/en/techinfo/html/prelogin/docs/2ndprius.pdf
The manual also has a nice overview of the car’s mechanical systems that any backyard mechanic would find interesting (which is how I found it initially).
+1 Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

What’cha wanna bet it’s an Asian domain?
+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

A fair bet but I don’t care, I’d just block the IP and be done with him.
+1 csmcg Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

Hello Luke,

This page contains a nice list of ERGs for various hybrids:http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/University-of-Extrication/University-Of-Extrication–Hybrid-Emergency-Response-Guides/19$60219

I hope that you find some of it interesting.

Regards
kdawg Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

Most of the electrical applications I deal with where water is present, everything has to be rated IP67 (basically washdown proof). This looks like what GM is testing for.
Mark Bartosik Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

Last year when I was laying conduit with a trencher around my house I laid two additional conduits precisely so I could fit charging points at two other locations without using excessively long extension cords.

I put in 1.5″ conduit in one place so I could charge my Volt at any charging rate it would accept (which we now know is limited to about 3.3KW).

If you want to charge from a place that doesn’t have conveniently located power and it is on your property, you have at least 1 year to run some conduit and wires there (of course comply with NEC and local codes).

I won’t put the actual wires in until I have the 240v charger in my hand (since it needs to be hardwired).
jeffhre Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

Ground fault is required for 240v and all outdoor receptacles in most places. It’s just a dumb off switch though.

The inboard charger is where the real control is. It will sense what is on the line before it allows charging; and can detect a number of faults and shut off power, going to re-test, before it it will allow charging to continue.

Unfortunately it seems most commercial (public) chargers planned will just shut off and not allow the charger to continue until manually reset, like GFI.
_______________
From ( http://www.teslamotors.com/blog5/?p=68 )… “(I) sat in the shade and read my Amazon Kindle while my car ate electrons at 240V/40A. I also walked a few loops around their nature trail for my daily exercise. After one of the loops, I returned to find that the circuit breaker had tripped. Resetting it worked fine but I lost a bit of time. After that I monitored the breaker more closely.”
_________
“Greg Ceisel is the Chevy Volt Program manager and has integral knowledge about the car’s engineering.

He recently shed some light on how the battery pack detects and reacts if there are any problems.

“The reliability of the Chevy Volt and its battery are essential to the success of this technology,” he said. “Our battery design includes multiple computers that run hundreds of tests to monitor the cells and the overall battery to confirm everything is working correctly.” ” ( http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/26/chevy-volt-battery-has-robust-cell-monitoring-and-safety-systems/ )

Not sure if GM has publicly iterated the charger safety functions yet though, I’ll search a little more..
Mitch Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

Actually Diesel-electric subs have been around since WW2….
jeffhre Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

That’s true but training does not always keep up with what’s on the road, and if they haven’t read the manual the first responders aren’t gonna try it.
Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

Since the WWI, actually. They would be considered parallel hybrids, not EREVs, since the diesel drivetrain was capable of turning the propellers without the electric motors (Also, electric-only range was both limited, and low speed).

And speaking of nautical endeavors (or naughty ones), where is our good friend Captain Jack?

No offense, CorvetteGuy, but I think I’d rather have a small helicopter on my mega-yacht.
jeffhre Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

MuddyRoverRob

That’s a good name for the resident troll, the big resistor.
+3 N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

The old saying about “there’s a sucker born every minute” or something like that doesn’t hold up in today’s modern world. It should be update to say “there’s 10,000 suckers born every minute”. Or something to that effect. We sure have been some real first class suckers for the past 25 years or so.
+1 Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

Hey, he’s fun. Look at the cool replies he draws. It lightens things up, IMHO.
Zack Lee Wright Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

Suggest they break out of the lab mentality and test in Seattle, Warshington. Now that would be a real water test.
+4 N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

Like President Reagan used to say “Trust, but verify”. When I come home with a wet car I will probably take the time to dry off the port with a dry cloth before sticking a power cord to it. Some how I just feel safer taking that extra precaution.
+1 Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

More power to you!

+1
-6 Martin Winterkorn Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

Enuff of dis krap testing and get on the road already. If you keep dragin yo feet u r letting the others catch up and slap u faster than Obama can runup the public debt.
-5 h8gm Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

So, what does this stupid test prove? That a car can’t operate under water? Who is paying for the test.?
Oh yeah the tax payers bottomless pockets. What a waste.
+2 MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

First responders tend to be pretty couragous folks, they would do their best in any case.

It DOES make sense though that GM would share the relevant information with emergency services folks prior to next November.
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

Wonder how they would enjoy 16kw in a short condition…
Err nevermind…
Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

And you live … where?

I think they need to get some road time north of Atlanta, where there is plenty of bumper-to-bumper traffic in searing heat (full disclosure: guess where I live?)
-6 SpongeBob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

The ice won’t start or the car won’t go into charge sustain mode down here when I park it in my pineapple.

Did they test the Suburban like this? or the Tahoe? or the Cobalt? or the Caddy CTS? or the Malubu? or the Camaro? how bout the vette? If not, why not?
Oh yeah, that’s why they are such crappy quality, they didn’t test them like this.
+1 Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

Muddy:

Excellent. Thanks for the cool link.

I just finished “The Unfair Advantage” by the great Mark Donohue, the story of his years with Penske Racing. It is by far the best book on motor racing I have ever read.

It is replete with stories about the painful and difficult development of racing cars. These included cars built by Lola, Porsche, McLaren, Ferrari, and many others. One would expect that these cars, built by the best in the business, would be super competetive right out of the box. Not so. In almost every case, they required extensive development to be competitive. The ability to do this accounts for a lot of the legendary success of Penske Racing.

This has great relevance for the Volt development process going on at GM now. The Volt is an extremely complex device, and the law of unintended consequences lurks everywhere. Bon Chance, GM!
+2 MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

It proves that when your mommy drives you home in the rain you won’t get your 2nd grade scribbler wet.
+1 RP Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

Penske Rulez !!!
Streetlight Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

Hi: Hardly do I question Chevy’s engineering documentation processes.
GM pioneered testing standards. And a quick Google turned up: SAE J 1976, Weathering; SAE J 1960-89, Waterspray; WSK-M3G178; and ASTM B117-05 Salt spray. (And commentaries attesting to GM’s high testing standards.)
My question relates to the article itself. Here GM highlights its Volt production water test capability … its the manner in which the tester notes consequences of what-if’s that brings about concern. I don’t cotton to the idea of an involuntary drive-train shut-down under any condition short of fire – that kind of thing.
-4 MotherNecessity Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

Is this test really nesessary? Are they going to blow it up too from the inside just in case an IED bomb was inside?
Maybe they should drop a boulder on it to simulate a meteorite hitting it.
-4 FallGuy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

Why not do a ‘Drop Test’ at 50 feet, just in case Hollywood wants to use it as some stunt cars in the next Transformers movie, or whatever…..
CorvetteGuy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

Yeah, but did they get 230 MPG !!!
N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

Somehow I am not comforted by a picture of an EV1 in a fish bowl. Where did that idea come from Lyle? Good subject matter, though. We had discussed several time how the Volt would react to driving through water deep enough to submerge the lower chassis. I guess the answer is that it will handle it OK. Not worse than an ICE vehicle that “drowns-out”. I don’t expect to be driving in deep water. So I am not really concerned when you get right down to it.
+2 CorvetteGuy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

Nope. Especially when it’s shooting fake torpedos underwater
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

Too Right!
CorvetteGuy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

Okay… Back to a serious question:

I know the battery pack is loaded up from below the car and bolted in, but there is a COVER over that… right? It’s not just hanging out down there waiting for the first chuck-hole-mud-puddle to happen by, is it?
+1 Mitch Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

gee wiilikers bobby…maybe because those cars don’t have a battery pack..you think???..

oh right..no you obviously don’t…
+2 Mitch Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

OOO…another genius!!!

I see a serious deficincy in cranial horse power here…

Yes..lets plant an explosive, and drop it like fall guy says…those are certain real world possibility…

maybe we should set up a line of gents to shag your rmom in the back seat to test the upholstry too..you know …real world stuff…
N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

Yes, the battery pack is sealed from below as well. Aerodynamics dictate that as well.
-2 Pewter Godfly Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

GM spends $1.5 billion on Volt and counting for…..

8 minute water sprinkler.

Nice to know where my tax dollars are going.

WTF, when are these people going to start losing their jobs. This has to be a joke.
-4 BorderCollie Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

I smell the pungent odor of GM sheep.
+1 N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

He can’t think! HE HAS A SPONGE FOR A BRAIN!!!!! Duh!
+2 Mitch Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

another shining example of towering intellectualism…

I heard from your proctologist..they have located your brain…it was tough as it looks like everything else there…

(today is feed the troll days for me…this is fun…bad day so I am taking out frustrations here)
+1 Mitch Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

HEY!! sponges are living creatures…and ARE capable of thinking..REAL sponges aren’t making assinine comments here..THEY understand cars unlike meathead squareshoes up here…

well you understand…lol
+2 Mitch Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

you really think his education level is that high?!?!?
+1 N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

As the video shows all car bodies being developed go through this type of water test to check the design for leaks. All auto companies do the same type of test. GM just has to go a step further and test for leaks in the battery compartment. But, if you had read the article, you would have seen that the battery test they were referring to was done to the EV-1’s battery. GM paid for that about 20 years ago. Read the full article and understand what you read before making a comment. Please!
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

mis-post oops.
+1 Mitch Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

http://www.hookedonphonics.com/productdetail.aspx?c1=1&c1=18&categoryid=12&productid=207

ask for one for your birthday
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

Looks like it’s going to fit flush with the floor.

http://www.gm-volt.com/galleries/album/72157607038955164/photo/3658614390/production-chevy-volt-preproductionchevyvolt001jpg.html

I can’t find the picture right now of the battery pack but I recall the ‘bottom’ was pretty heavy duty looking.
N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

I got you. My comment wasn’t directed at your comment, but at the sponge head a$$hole.
N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

It is not measurable. Not at all.
N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

No one can move that fast, Martin. But a good analogy anyway.
N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

I don’t like the “no name” either, but I agree I do like the replies. And it doesn’t hurt to lighten us up some. We get too darn serious sometimes.
+1 N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

That is not GM sheep you are smelling, Border. Better get your nose out of your a$$.
+1 Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

Another genius?

This is a brain-trust of one, I suspect.
-2 SpankYourMonkey Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

Yet another example of ‘towering intellectualism’.
Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

Mitch; did they use the electron microscope?
MuddyRoverRob Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

Sadly they pass unfortunate minds (even those as weak as our trolls) through anyway.

It shouldn’t happen but we all have seen the evidence, we know it does.
N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

I wonder, myself, about what will happen when the Volt hits 2 or 3 inches of water in a dip in the roadbed while being driven 35 – 45 MPH. Is the engine compartment protected from water being splashed up onto the electric motors? How about the circuitry? Lots of questions still to be answered by GM. I feel fairly certain all of these conditions will be tested for and resolved. Can’t stop everything from happening, but I believe most problems will be overcome.
Shock Me Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

Submersible Chevys!
The easiest way to get those Holden Volts down unda!

Where is that number I have for Electric Boat?
Loboc Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:56 pm

They would just spoof another address or use a different stealth proxy.

If you want to really get rid of them (think it’s only one person?) don’t reply and don’t click the neg button. It just encourages them. Totally ignored is totally irrelevant.
-1 SpankYourMonkey Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

That was reserved for interviewing the GM engineers for the Volt.
-3 SpankYourMonkey Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

The fishbowl/EV-1 indicates GM drowning and sinking to the bottom of the “Industrial” food chain.
N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

I see it doesn’t take much to make you “happy” and “all smiles”. Must be your sunny disposition. Laughing is always good for you. Well, most of the time.
+1 N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

You go that right, Mitch. But, if you park them both side by side, the use the exact same amount of fuel while parked. Now, that actually blows my mind!
N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

You can’t trick him into taking that job, or any job. He is afraid the water might get over his head and flush out the remaining muddy water left in his brain cavity. Poor thing.
+1 N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

Well, good for you, Roger. At least you will know where your next meal is coming from.
Loboc Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

I guess that being open about your future products doesn’t pay so well with some.

chevroletvoltage.com has some more videos. Interesting stuff for Volt fans.

This car is going to production. Not much could stop it at this point.
N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

Tex-Arl,

Not need to try to explain. He has to have something between his ears to catch words and process them first. Poor thing has a large vacant area there.
DaveP Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

I’ve driven through a rainstorm like that. It was in Hawaii
(I also walked through a rainstorm like that in Hawaii. (They come up really fast!) Fortunately it was very warm…)

That is an interesting tidbit of information about the Volt battery (and EV1) water testing. Thanks, Lyle.
+1 csmcg Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:27 pm

jeffhre,

Training and the docs _never_ keep up with what is on the road. Combine that with the fact that every wreck is a new vehicle type as the vehicle has been modified in a way not replicated before. We constantly ‘try it’ without specific knowledge.

We do use guidelines and general knowledge regarding tactics. Things like:

* Where the service disconnects are usually found and what they usually look like.
* Killing the 12v systems (when they exist) as this shuts down the big voltage relays.

Muddy, GM has been good in the past about providing ERG data. I would expect that to continue with the Volt and other GM next-gen vehicles.

Regards
jeffhre Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:32 pm

It takes an unusual mentality to do the job, but they are trained to ensure that the environment is safe to begin rescue operations with the tools available. It’s often stressed that you can’t do anyone any good if you are injured or killed as well.

The mentality of running toward gunshots or into burning buildings instead of the other direction is unusual, but just plain crazy is quickly weeded out in professions where complicated decisions must be made in life or death situations.
Jim I Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:35 pm

If we are going to go back in time fo9r underwater cars, how about this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL2vaSNbPbo&feature=PlayList&p=E08B1E1D3CA16C41&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10
fred Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:41 pm

Is lithium recyclable or does it get used up?
jeffhre Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:45 pm

csmcg, I have nothing but admiration for you and the professional attitude you take. But I can’t blame someone who hasn’t been properly trained for not taking an undue risk of their own life in a situation with unknown dangers. I expect training budgets to fall farther behind until we are well past the recession.
+1 csmcg Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 4:58 pm

jeffhre,

No worries. Not looking for admiration. Just trying to contribute to the discussion.

You brought up an interesting issue (to me at least). New stuff is scary. Electricity and water is scary.

I would not blame a responder for refusing a task related to 300v+ DC sitting at the bottom of an irrigation ditch…

Regards
old man Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

h8gm

Please watch the video clip before commenting. You might be taken off the list of unschooled if you did.
-4 Scrappy DooDoo Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

So does this test offer an ‘Value Added’ anything to the car when Katrina hits again and floods my car.
Nope, it’s just another waste of more public money.
Sam ol’ GM, nothing changed.
WopOnTour Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

GM has been directly providing “First Responders” with training modules on all of their airbag and hybrid technologies for years. I see no reason why that wouldn’t continue with the Volt.

No doubt they will recommend the IGN switch/button be place in the OFF position and ALL underhood cables carrying the “CUT HERE” (aka fireman’s helmet) labels be cut, and/or the manual disconnect service lever removed. Sure sometimes there are extenuating circumstances affecting one or more of these steps but multiple redundancy will minimize risk.

If both the HV+ and HV- rails are shorted to each other, there’s gonna be SPARKS (and very likely one of the myriad of fused components will let go alleviating the danger) If just ONE of the + or – HV circuits were shorted out (to the chassis for instance) you would STILL have to simultaneously touch the “other half” of the electrical equation in order to become electrically engaged in the circuit.

FYI-In a previous thread that showed the interface plate of the Volt battery I posted info on the identification of the various connections and the location of the manual disconnect levers (yes in this case levers not lever)
http://gm-volt.com/2009/08/05/gm-leaning-towards-selling-volt-without-leasing-battery-seperately/
WopOnTour
old man Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

mother

I think you are using several names as I find it hard to believe that, that many would post pure crap about something they have not watched. If you have watched it then I am sorry for your lack of ability to understand what they were doing.

I will go so far as to say I think all cars go through such a test as it must be the fastest way to find problem areas.
old man Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

I think it is the same ding dong
+1 nuclearboy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:17 pm

On a serious note, it is good that GM is testing this. It is not unheard of to have to run through 8-12 inches on a flooded street. Given the Volts battery location, it better be fairly water tight.
Koz Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:32 pm

Cool!!!

On the surface this looks like a much better prospect for future Voltecs than diesel or HCCI. Lighter, smaller, potentially cheaper, less polluting than diesel, and just as efficient. I wonder if the noise/vibration characteristics are a good fit too.
-4 Andy Dick Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:32 pm

GM begins to remove “Mark of Excellence” from ALL ITS VEHICLES !

It about damn time. That logo was recognized as a worldwide joke.

Maybe, just maybe, GM is changing. Fingers crossed.
Andy Dick Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:36 pm

Lithium is definitely recyclable, I use it daily to calm my nerves. Works wonders. I never leave home without my Li.
+3 Xiaowei1 Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:38 pm

Power to him, however not having a “recall” doesn’t mean BYD batteries do not fail. The big problem is consistency of quality of components is more obvious in larger car battery packs.

i don’t know the exact sales figures now, but the F3DM as of April 2009 they had only sold 80 units.
http://www.chinacartimes.com/2009/04/14/byd-f3dm-sales-officially-poor/

As for your comment “if the customers want and pay for high quality, they will build to that level.” This does not really work well in China – it’s not absent, but it does not work well. You need to understand the market there, the lack of regulations, and training used inside the work place. The competitiveness means you have to build cheap. To build cheap you use dodgy quality and cheap unskilled labour… but don’t worry as it was so cheap, you can just buy another one when it breaks. if you want quality, look for a foreign made item (especially cars). Even if they try to build a quality item, who is to say the material they get for the production is of the quality required – the samples may be great, but even your suppliers are hunting for bargains for their own components… everyone is trying to cut down on costs to compete and the market is just so unregulated.

This is the problem BYD are facing, there is low consistency in the quality of the components they buy from suppliers, hence the problem putting together large car batteries with the same consistency of quality so it operates like it should. So, BYD have had a large failure rate in the batteries and this is due to inconsistency of quality but it does not mean they have to “recall” all their batteries, they can however replace them and still say “we have not ‘recalled’ any batteries”
-4 Johnny Python Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

It’s alright if you have a leak, just wear a raincoat. Practice safe driving when behind the wheel of your Volt. We don’t want a bunch of little Voltsters running around would we.
Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

Yeah, and how about the word “underwater”? At least I always try to say “no pun intended”, LOL.

I really miss statik projecting out the cash burn rate to “tap city”. Given the product line they have to sell at the moment, and the end of “cash for clunkers”, I feel like something is sneaking up behind us. If they have to go back to the taxpayer well again, I think it’s really going to be tough.

Dr. Dennis:

Could that be the subject of a statik thread?
Noel Park Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:46 pm

That’s what I’m talking about. It is fun. You guys are doing great.

When we were kids, one of the favorite “chops” was “I’d challenge you to a battle of wits, but I never fight an unarmed man.” As statik would say, “hehehe”.
Carcus1 Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:50 pm

Off topic:

Vauxhall (Opel) has a product that beats 40 mpg (with 3,500# towing capacity!) —

. .. sort of(EU cycle 44.7 mpg, U.S. mpg),

/http://green.autoblog.com/2009/08/25/vauxhall-releases-new-insignia-ecoflex-sports-tourer-with-under/
Luke Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 5:59 pm

It is quite interesting — thanks!
+1 Xiaowei1 Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 6:03 pm

Exactly what do you mean by “more experience”. if you are referring to the F3DM, the production was rushed and is selling like… errr…. well like, ammm… well in June they sold 19 units so all that experience is paying off i see.

Sure its just to companies and the government, but anyone that can afford a new car will buy it though a company for the right off on tax, and i need not say how big the government is there. I do wish them luck though, and i am looking forward to seeing the F6.

Now there are other electric car manufactures, but where do you think they all get their technology? for example, Chery A5 hybrid sedan is also a hybrid just released in January this year, but they got assistance from British engineering firm, Ricardo, and is only a mild hybrid (with a Belt Driven Starter Generator – where the starter motor is slightly larger than usual, and allows the car’s engine to be turned off when coasting, braking, or stopped).

Sooooo, can you point to the “BYD has more experience with producing Electric cars”? I’m quite interest in finding out more.
+1 statik Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 6:04 pm

I’m BAAAAAAAAAAACK……..NOT !
Taser Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

The Volt is your own personal stun gun. When pointing toward your prey make sure you want to inflict serious damage.
Tagamet Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 6:48 pm

Ditto on the request for an IP block (assuming it’s one person). Like Lyle has nothing to do with his many free seconds/day (g).
At this point I’m looking forward to tomorrow’s thread. No idea what it’ll be about, but I do know that it’ll have something VOLT related.
Be well,
Tagamet

Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!**********NPNS
Ed M Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 7:07 pm

well I’m glad they tested for this, This will be a great help the next time I’m drunk and try to park in the swimming pool
+2 nuclearboy Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 7:34 pm

I really like the wagons. They have been all but replaced in the US with the CUV’s. You should be able to get better mileage with these lower profile vehicles and they are easier to throw stuff on the roof.

GM staff. Think Malibu Wagon….
+2 Xiaowei1 Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:15 pm

All they have to do now is actually sell some… Actually, the EV you speak of (the F3DM), is more of a Prius by design (although it is a plug in). It’s a hybrid, not an EV. Once you hit a given speed the motor assist will kick in; though credit to them for pulling it off so quickly.

I do wish BDY all the best, but the product is not an EV. Hopefully they will correct this latter.
Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:49 pm

In case you’re not the troll, Fred; it is believed that Lithium can be recycled from old large-format (automotive) cells.
+1 Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:53 pm

Lyle;

You could stop most of this troll nonsense by requiring a valid email address to post (send an activation key to that address).

No, I don’t know the details of how to set it up, but lots of sites do it this way. Since you can’t take the time to moderate posts, this might be a pretty good gnat screen to put on the door.
Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:55 pm

On topic (sort of):

Didja hear about the screen door on the submarine?

Don’t laugh, it keeps the fish out.
Jackson Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 8:57 pm

Are you volunteering to be the ‘dummy?’ It’s clear you have plenty of experience.
+1 Mark Z Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 9:05 pm

The EV-1 in the fish bowl looks cute and visualizes the topic well. A more appropriate container would be a beaker of water to illustrate the industrial laboratory tests that GM is conducting on the electric car batteries.

Thanks again Lyle, for another great topic of discussion!
Jeff Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

Will the Volt handle the water test in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrk6vsb77xk

If you do not want to see the other tests, the water test starts at 3:00 minutes….continue watching until the engine starts.
+1 steel Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

I have no doubt a Chinese company -can- produce high quality goods including cars.

But to do so, they must be willing to hire expensive experience labour from top (Engineering/Design) to bottom. Buy quality materials, with quality QA and robust process development.

Once that is done, the “Cheap” Chinese good/car is no longer really any cheaper than most manufacturers.
Tex-Arl Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

N Riley

You said it well. Some people just have their head where the sun has never shined.

He must be unhappy.
Tex-Arl Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 10:56 pm

Why would you make such a stupid comment. It just shows how ignorant you are!!!!!!!!!!!
csmcg Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:33 pm

Zing! Nice shot. I heard the ricochet from way over here
+1 csmcg Says:
August 25th, 2009 at 11:45 pm

WopOnTour,

Thanks for revisiting the topic and providing the information concerning the connectors. I also have the nagging feeling that I should be thanking you for some of the well written ERG docs that come out of GM…

You wrote: “the pair of smaller 2 wire orange connectors under the larger terminals are part of what’s called the HV Interlock circuit. It’s a secondary safety system that consists of a current monitored series circuit that routes through various “access” covers and elements that further act to improve safety from unintentional exposure to the HV source.”

Does this mean (for example) if the hood is open, that the HV is dead? Would water immersion of any of the covers or elements trigger the HV disconnect?

Regards
+1 WopOnTour Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 12:34 am

Actually no, not the hood switch itself. I know what you’re likely thinking- just open the hood and we’re “good to go for extrication” but it doesnt quite work that way on any of the current GM hybrids and likely wont for the Volt either. However removal almost any of the underhood access covers where you see the “orange” colored warning labels or cables WILL generally open circuit the HV Interlock Circuit (HVIC). But unfortunately these covers generally employ tamper proof fasteners making quick removal somewhat complicated. But there’s usually an HVIC pass-though on any manual service disconnect lever, HV battery source to cable connector and/or cover, and various 3-phase transmission covers as well.

Moisture probably wont affect those connections much as they are using sealed connector technologies on most non-interior HVIC jumpers and the ECU monitoring structure is current (not voltage) based and would require significant shorting to affect it.

Best thing to do is to continue to follow the ERGs provided directly from GM for rendering the vehicle safe. and rememeber to CUT ONLY AND ALL those “specially marked” cables! DO NOT just disconnect the 12V battery (which looks simple/fast becauseof the new quick-lock cable ends) as the Accessory Power Module will continue to pump out ~15V to all parts of the 12V system even with the 12V source disconnected!
Stay Safe!
Electrical Power Testing Products Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 1:18 am

Testing every devices and equipments we have before using it is a necessary thing so as to avoid certain harm in the future.
Mitch Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:55 am

Sorry..humourous response for the protection of sponges….I know you did not direct at me…

Kinda like calling hinm an idiot is an isult to idiots…I was thinking of the sponges
Mitch Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:19 am

same ole troll…
Mitch Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:22 am

only if you close it
Q&A: What happens if the Chevy Volt sleeps with the fishes? | AutoBlog Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

[...] the water for safety, proving GM’s not the only automaker testing its EVs in this manner. [Source: GM-Volt.com]Continue reading Q&A: What happens if the Chevy Volt sleeps with the fishes?Q&A: What [...]
Q&A: What happens if the Chevy Volt sleeps with the fishes? » Hybrid News Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

[...] [&#83ou&#114c&#101: GM-&#86olt.co&#109] [...]
Q&A: What happens if the Chevy Volt sleeps with the fishes? Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

[...] [Source: GM-Volt.com] [...]
csmcg Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

WopOnTour,

Thank you very much for the info. We do follow the ERGs as best we can given whatever the situation.

I suffer from being an engineer in my day job so knowing how things work under the skin really helps me devise tactics on scene. Thanks again.

Regards
WopOnTour Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

np you’re welcome
Hopefully all of the OEM hybrid data will eventually make it into some of the various “on scene” guides like Holmatro. In the meantime if you shoot me an email to wopontour@gmail.com I’ll hook you up with additional GM hybrid data for First Responders.(hopefully that you already have
WOT
Ricky Bobby Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

Current travels in the shortest path…. thats why birds don’t get shocked on the line. Current will not go out of the pack, way out to the people and then back to the pack. Thats even if it doesn’t shut down first.
Q&A: What happens if the Chevy Volt sleeps with the fishes? » Green News Says:
August 27th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

[...] [Source: GM-Volt.com] [...]
Chevy Volt Takes a Dive - for Safety! : Gas 2.0 Says:
August 31st, 2009 at 1:07 pm

[...] GM took those concerns to heart, and released some rare “behind-the-scenes” commentary on the car’s underwater testing on GM’s VoltAge blog. [...]
Chevy Volt Takes a Dive – for Safety! | AvailableGreenEnergy Says:
September 1st, 2009 at 12:06 am

[...] GM took those concerns to heart, and released some rare “behind-the-scenes” commentary on the car’s underwater testing on GM’s VoltAge blog. [...]
Chevy Volt Takes a Dive – for Safety! Says:
September 1st, 2009 at 6:07 pm

[...] GM took those concerns to heart, and released some rare “behind-the-scenes” commentary on the car’s underwater testing on GM’s VoltAge blog. [...]
Zahar Says:
September 5th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

Один совет, который хочу дать, это то, что надо поменьше глупостей писать, а то скоро всему верить будут

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