Comments on: Lutz Still Dreaming of an Electric Cadillac http://gm-volt.com/2009/08/23/lutz-still-dreaming-of-an-electric-cadillac/ Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt. Sun, 21 Mar 2010 04:49:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: gieso http://gm-volt.com/2009/08/23/lutz-still-dreaming-of-an-electric-cadillac/#comment-140206 gieso Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:10:14 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1812#comment-140206 By 2014 I would expect that the "about two volts" will no longer be $80k. Hopefully this is a lot closer to $50-60K. The Tesla S is the direct competitor and it is listed on the Tesla Website at just under $50k. Of course, this might be a striped version and a more normal version might be $60k. Maybe I will have to lease a Volt in late 2010 and then get a Converj (or whatever it is called) when the lease is up. I guess that gives me a couple more years to save up $80k.... By 2014 I would expect that the “about two volts” will no longer be $80k. Hopefully this is a lot closer to $50-60K. The Tesla S is the direct competitor and it is listed on the Tesla Website at just under $50k. Of course, this might be a striped version and a more normal version might be $60k.

Maybe I will have to lease a Volt in late 2010 and then get a Converj (or whatever it is called) when the lease is up. I guess that gives me a couple more years to save up $80k….

]]> By: john http://gm-volt.com/2009/08/23/lutz-still-dreaming-of-an-electric-cadillac/#comment-140200 john Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:26:38 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1812#comment-140200 it's like your making things up as you type.... US department of energy study says the CURRENT grid would be able to handle off peak charging even if all 220 million cars in the US became electric tommorrow. THE CURRENT GRID. http://www.pnl.gov/news/release.asp?id=204 There is no infrastructure required, every house, building, and gas station already have power cables running to them that can be modified for high watt output cheaply. Most people will just plug into a regular outlet at night. There are peaks and valleys in electric utilization, (there is a big valley at night), existing gas stations can use live as well as stored electricy from off peak times to charge your car in a few minutes without overloading the CURRENT grid as it is. A123 cells packs can be charged in 4 minutes. Newer packs charge faster than it takes to fill gasoline or hydrogen into a vehicle. it’s like your making things up as you type….

US department of energy study says the CURRENT grid would be able to handle off peak charging even if all 220 million cars in the US became electric tommorrow. THE CURRENT GRID.

http://www.pnl.gov/news/release.asp?id=204

There is no infrastructure required, every house, building, and gas station already have power cables running to them that can be modified for high watt output cheaply. Most people will just plug into a regular outlet at night.

There are peaks and valleys in electric utilization, (there is a big valley at night), existing gas stations can use live as well as stored electricy from off peak times to charge your car in a few minutes without overloading the CURRENT grid as it is. A123 cells packs can be charged in 4 minutes. Newer packs charge faster than it takes to fill gasoline or hydrogen into a vehicle.

]]> By: CaliSteve http://gm-volt.com/2009/08/23/lutz-still-dreaming-of-an-electric-cadillac/#comment-140197 CaliSteve Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:12:19 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1812#comment-140197 Fuel cells are not an energy storage unit. The energy is stored in the hydrogen. Hydrogen is a massed produced industrial gas that is safely made and stored by the ton. It's used in gasoline, fertilizer, food processing, treating glass, making computer components, and goes into consumer products like toothpaste and laundry detergent. Most hydrogen stations, however, make their fuel at the station, eliminating the need to store large amounts of fuel like a gas station does. It's a whole new business model that actually cuts out the big oil companies and opens the door for new types of businesses. Unlike electricity, which keeps the monopoly on fuel firmly in place. Fuel cells are not an energy storage unit. The energy is stored in the hydrogen. Hydrogen is a massed produced industrial gas that is safely made and stored by the ton. It’s used in gasoline, fertilizer, food processing, treating glass, making computer components, and goes into consumer products like toothpaste and laundry detergent. Most hydrogen stations, however, make their fuel at the station, eliminating the need to store large amounts of fuel like a gas station does. It’s a whole new business model that actually cuts out the big oil companies and opens the door for new types of businesses. Unlike electricity, which keeps the monopoly on fuel firmly in place.

]]> By: LizR http://gm-volt.com/2009/08/23/lutz-still-dreaming-of-an-electric-cadillac/#comment-140194 LizR Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:06:10 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1812#comment-140194 Batteries are not cheaper. According to the MIT study conducted by Kromer and Heywood, and backed up by the DOE's Merit Review in February, 2009, fuel cells are currently on target to meet 2015 goals for durabilty, range and cost. Batteries are currently not on target to reach any of those. The fact that our government has just committed billions of dollars for manufacturing batteries when the R&D isn't nearly finished is scary. Our government is pushing us into a technology that is not ready for prime time...yet. Truth is that fuel cell and battery powered electric vehicles will come to market at about the same time. The infrastructure for both will be adequte for the first wave of vehicles, although both types will be inconvenient for many early adopters. As the market makes its choice for both or one over the other, the infrastructure will grow to meet demand. I suggest you read the well-referenced materials at www.cafcp.org. Batteries are not cheaper. According to the MIT study conducted by Kromer and Heywood, and backed up by the DOE’s Merit Review in February, 2009, fuel cells are currently on target to meet 2015 goals for durabilty, range and cost. Batteries are currently not on target to reach any of those. The fact that our government has just committed billions of dollars for manufacturing batteries when the R&D isn’t nearly finished is scary. Our government is pushing us into a technology that is not ready for prime time…yet. Truth is that fuel cell and battery powered electric vehicles will come to market at about the same time. The infrastructure for both will be adequte for the first wave of vehicles, although both types will be inconvenient for many early adopters. As the market makes its choice for both or one over the other, the infrastructure will grow to meet demand. I suggest you read the well-referenced materials at http://www.cafcp.org.

]]> By: LizR http://gm-volt.com/2009/08/23/lutz-still-dreaming-of-an-electric-cadillac/#comment-140191 LizR Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:00:14 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1812#comment-140191 Ulf Bossel's report is not a credible source of information. Bossel took the worst way to make hydrogen and ran it through a vehicle so inefficient that no company would bother making it, then compared it to a pipe dream for making electricity using a car that can't be produced. You need to read and cite credible sources of information, like Argonne National Labs, the National Academy of Science, the California Energy Commission, TIAX, DOE, MIT...studies done by real scientists. Ulf Bossel’s report is not a credible source of information. Bossel took the worst way to make hydrogen and ran it through a vehicle so inefficient that no company would bother making it, then compared it to a pipe dream for making electricity using a car that can’t be produced. You need to read and cite credible sources of information, like Argonne National Labs, the National Academy of Science, the California Energy Commission, TIAX, DOE, MIT…studies done by real scientists.

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