Aug 05

GM and LG Chem Get Battery and Electric Car Grants: 500 Chevy Volts to Early Consumer Test Fleet

 

On Wednesday President Obama announced $2.4 billion in Recovery Act funding was being awarded for an electric drive vehicle battery and component manufacturing initiative.

“For too long, we’ve failed to invest in this kind of innovative work, even as countries like China and Japan were racing ahead,” he said. “With these investments, we’re planting the seeds of progress for our country and good-paying, private-sector jobs for the American people.”

“If we want to reduce our dependence on oil, put Americans back to work and reassert our manufacturing sector as one of the greatest in the world, we must produce the advanced, efficient vehicles of the future,” said President Obama.

The money is distributed as follows:

* $1.5 billion in grants to U.S. based manufacturers to produce batteries and their components and to expand battery recycling capacity;
* $500 million in grants to U.S. based manufacturers to produce electric drive components for vehicles, including electric motors, power electronics, and other drive train components; and
* $400 million in grants to purchase thousands of plug-in hybrid and all-electric vehicles for test demonstrations in several dozen locations; to deploy them and evaluate their performance; to install electric charging infrastructure; and to provide education and workforce training to support the transition to advanced electric transportation systems.

As noted, the bulk of the funds went to battery makers for use in creating battery manufacturing facilities. Johnson Controls was awards $299 million, A123 got $249 million, and EnerDel got $119 million among others.

Included in this category as well was General Motors and Compact Power Inc. GM received $105 million for the production of their Brownstone MI Chevy Volt battery pack assembly plant. Compact Power, subsidiary of LG Chem, was awarded $151 million to produce its lithium ion manganese cells that will be used in the Volt program.  LG Chem will be using these funds to build a US plant.

GM also received an additional $105 Million to be used for “construction of U.S. manufacturing capabilities to produce the second-generation GM global rear-wheel electric drive system.”

Since the Volt is a front wheel electric drive system, this suggests GM has something new in store for us with the second generation Voltec vehicles.

Finally, and most interesting, GM also received $30 million in another category. This money is to be used to “develop, analyze, and demonstrate hundreds of Chevrolet Volt Extended Range Electric Vehicles (EREVs) –125 Volt PHEVs for electric utilities and 500 Volt PHEVs to consumers.”

This certainly looks like GM plans on getting 500 Chevy Volts into the hands of US consumers for fleet testing sooner than the November 2010 launch date, with some sources saying perhaps as early as the summer of 2010.

I officially asked GM spokesperson Kerry Christopher about this.

“We’re excited about working on this project but not in a position to release specific details at this time,” said Christopher. “We just found out this morning that we would be receiving the grants. When we have information ready to share, you’ll be one of the first to know.”

Source (DOE )

This entry was posted on Wednesday, August 5th, 2009 at 5:57 pm and is filed under Battery. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 239


  1. 1
    Gary

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Gary
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:04 pm)

    I’d like to be one of those 500 early testers, even though I’m in British Columbia, Canada. BC is full of trees and tree huggers, so I have a fighting chance.


  2. 2
    ASR

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ASR
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:07 pm)

    This is good news!


  3. 3
    Gary

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Gary
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:12 pm)

    GM also received an additional $105 Million to be used for “construction of U.S. manufacturing capabilities to produce the second-generation GM global rear-wheel electric drive system.”

    Wha-wha-whaaaa???

    Let the speculation begin…


  4. 4
    Cooter Pewter

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Cooter Pewter
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:13 pm)

    Nice to see LG and A123 getting some green[back] love.

    Lithium Goodness spreading fast.


  5. 5
    Johnny Rotten

    -12

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Johnny Rotten
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:14 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  6. 6
    Charlie

    -8

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:23 pm)

    Do you suppose any of this taxpayer money showered on GM will affect the $40,000+ price of the Volt? Dream on.


  7. 7
    Bob G

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Bob G
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:23 pm)

    Heck, I’d even *pay* to be one of the 500 early testers … similar to Lyle and his BEV Mini.

    Seattle is full of Prius’, especially now with the latest stimulus program for the Japanese economy (i.e., “Cash for Clunkers”). It sure would be nice to drive by the gas station in my Volt, waving to the poor suckers whose “hybrids” are still addicted to foreign oil.


  8. 8
    Xiaowei1

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Xiaowei1
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:25 pm)

    Good luck with being a tester Lyle, I’d say your name would be at the top of their list; If your lease has not run out on the Mini-E by then, I can see the mini being parked next to a tree for a while.


  9. 9
    BillR

    -3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    BillR
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:26 pm)

    Yes, its seems like the site has been DeGaussed.


  10. 10
    BillR

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    BillR
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:28 pm)

    Tag,

    “This certainly looks like GM plans on getting 500 Chevy Volts into the hands of US consumers for fleet testing sooner than the November 2010 launch date, with some sources saying perhaps as early as the summer of 2010.”

    Looks like your Independence Day theme may not be so far off!


  11. 11
    Jay

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jay
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:29 pm)

    Possibly for trucks, SUVs??


  12. 12
    Xiaowei1

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Xiaowei1
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:34 pm)

    There is no point in testing only a couple of months before the actual sales begin. You’d expect a much larger lead time so as to implement any changes required. Otherwise the “test” would have no use (except perhaps for media purposes).


  13. 13
    DaV8or

    +14

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DaV8or
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:38 pm)

    Performance roadsters and coupes for me please! Or maybe a performance two door sedan like a 3 series BMW, except looking like a Camaro! There are a lot of people besides rich people that are ready for no excuses, kick ass electric cars.


  14. 14
    Jay

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jay
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:39 pm)

    Unless they’re just testing firmware.. that is easy to update.


  15. 15
    Dave K.

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave K.
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:39 pm)

    Obama has been in office for 1/8 of his first term. He has already made more big decisions than most presidents make in 4 years.

    I sent an email to The White House in March mentioning that although much has been accomplished he needs to stay on task and stay away from victory parties. Seems like he is listening and continues to act quickly.

    Wouldn’t it be fun to see a parade honoring returning Iraq War vets being led by a phalanx of Chevy Volt? Did someone mention The 4th of July?

    =D~


  16. 16
    Jody

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jody
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:40 pm)

    Yeah same here, I would more than love to be one of the one’s that get to test the volt.

    If your reading this GM, I’m ready, willing and in Ohio!


  17. 17
    Ted in Fort Myers

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ted in Fort Myers
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:40 pm)

    Guys I can be ready as soon as next summer. I will have no trouble finding a buyer for my 60 MPG 2006 Insight. May I be one of the first to purchase a new Volt.

    Take Care,
    TED


  18. 18
    Ted in Fort Myers

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ted in Fort Myers
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:42 pm)

    That’s likely to be the Converge… Don’t you think?

    Take Care,
    TED


  19. 19
    DaV8or

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DaV8or
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:44 pm)

    I’m not encumbered by any Mini lease programs, so I could take delivery anytime if needed. Just wanted to throw that out there. ;-)


  20. 20
    Volt45

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Volt45
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:49 pm)

    Maybe an EREV Corvette?
    A thru-the-road hybrid, electric rear-wheel, gas front-wheel?


  21. 21
    Xiaowei1

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Xiaowei1
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:49 pm)

    This may still be related to the volt. In Australia for example, rear wheel drive is much more preferred as in general we don’t have to deal with such harsh cold conditions as found in parts if the US and Europe where snow and ice affect steering to a greater degree. Front wheel drive simply sucks in the wet conditions when accelerating; especially when you are going uphill. I’m personally very put off by the Volt being front wheel drive; instant torque would mean spinning the wheels in wet conditions almost all the time when going up a hill – even though this would not be a deal breaker for me, many in OZ would not consider a front wheel drive car.

    Just to make it perfectly clear to GM, Having to lease the battery however would be a deal breaker for sure.


  22. 22
    Volt45

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Volt45
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:53 pm)

    Moses brought us the Ten Commandments.

    Obama brought us an alternative electric drivetrain with a 10 yr/ 150 k warranty!

    Oh Moses Obama! We are so sorry for our internal combustion fornicating ways! Save us!


  23. 23
    Xiaowei1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Xiaowei1
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:56 pm)

    Oh, I so want to argue with you!

    But you may be correct. That said, I’d still expect a better lead time so as to test all aspects of the car, not just programming.


  24. 24
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (6:57 pm)

    Emphasis on SECOND generation.
    (No wonder no one replied to my posts late in the last thread – all about the grant money.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  25. 25
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:01 pm)

    BillR
    I was JUST about to post that (lol). This may be the “possibility” that came out in the answer to my chat question.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  26. 26
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:02 pm)

    (raises had re Independence Day release)

    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  27. 27
    Tagamet

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:06 pm)

    Ted,
    Dibs on the Insight if I’m not one of “the chosen”. That should be an interesting process (picking the 500).
    Speculation on “how”?
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  28. 28
    Michael Robinson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Michael Robinson
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:08 pm)

    No, it isn’t. Obama is committing too much cash to a technology that will never replace the internal combustion engine when there is one that will. Battery technology has been targeted for improvement since at least the early 1990s. In all that time, it still isn’t practical to build a BEV. Recharge time will never be a matter of minutes, but instead it will be a matter of hours.

    Fuel cell technology since the early 90s however has improved exponentially. Prototype Chevy Sequels cost $250k a piece to build by hand using a lot of platinum. They are breakthroughs that are reducing the amount of platinum needed and honestly, mass production will drop that price even further. A billion dollar investment in fuel cell technology would bring this technology to market with the infrastructure to support it sooner than 2015.
    With the proper mandate and investment, I bet we could see affordable fuel cell cars hit the roads by next summer.

    The prejudice against fuel cell technology by the absence in this package of funding for the commercialization of fuel cell technology is disheartening to say the least.

    I bet you the price of this package that battery technology won’t improve enough to make it worth it. Even if optimistically it were
    possible to pack a 300 mile battery in a minivan without losing
    seating, that battery will require 8 hours or more to recharge.
    Most likely, that battery will add $30k or more to the price of the
    vehicle. Worse, everyone plugging in their 300 mile battery will
    result in a major strain on the electrical grid and rolling blackouts.
    With half of the nation’s electricity coming from coal, electric cars
    that recharge off of the current grid will be dirtier than clean diesels.

    NFCNS


  29. 29
    James

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    James
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:10 pm)

    It’s interesting that eestor was not included in the grants for such a promising technology (/vaporware).


  30. 30
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:11 pm)

    DeGaussed is a good term for it!

    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  31. 31
    CaptJackSparrow

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:12 pm)

    Now, with all this free friggin money for the Batteries thrown at GM AND LG, I need to ask,..
    WILL THE PRICE BE DROPPED FOR THE VOLT?!?!?!?!?

    /cue the crickets….

    If it does not, then something really fuked up is going on in this industry.

    I mean cmon, if they got funds to do this and the speculated price of the Volt remains the same or more or at/above $40,000.00 then cross my name off the fukin list. Serious, this sh|t has to end. Corporate welfare sucks A$$!!

    Yeah and I get that a price was not released but we heard it from the horse’s mouth on David Letterman and on many other sites indiacating prices above $40,000.00.


  32. 32
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:14 pm)

    Raises HAND I mean. Argh. The darn keyboard can’t spell.
    Statik SOOOO mis-timed leaving here. COME BACK!
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  33. 33
    Tagamet

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:19 pm)

    EEEEEasy Capt.
    We’re all just speculating. Price won’t even be addressed until a few months before the Production release.
    Right now we should be speculating about those 500 Volts!
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  34. 34
    CaptJackSparrow

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:21 pm)

    There’s nothing to prove they have a product to manufacture and/or works. Every company has one that was mentioned.


  35. 35
    Joe

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Joe
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:22 pm)

    It looks like EEStor did not get any money. Wouldn’t they have gotten some of that money if they really were close to a major breakthrough with their ultra capacitor as claimed?


  36. 36
    Tagamet

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:23 pm)

    Just the thought of half a thousand Volts rolling around out there makes me giggle.
    I DO worry that the placement of the 12,500 220V charging stations being done will match the production limited rollout – only because PA isn’t one of the 4 or 5 states listed.
    Oh well, I’m patient.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  37. 37
    Tagamet

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:27 pm)

    A complete list of what’s proposed is here:
    http://www1.eere.energy.gov/recovery/pdfs/battery_awardee_list.pdf

    Map is here:
    http://www1.eere.energy.gov/recovery/pdfs/battery_awardee_map.pdf

    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  38. 38
    CaptJackSparrow

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:28 pm)

    The 500 Volts means nothing to me. They’ll hand pick the person who get’s it these RC1 (Release Candidate 1) cars.

    You know, it’s one thing to offer speculated pricing in their situation given but it’s another to get showered by more tax payers $$$ and not offer a break. Sure it’s early n the news. Let’s wait and see what comes up…..the price!

    Just watch. Mark my words matey!


  39. 39
    Joe

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Joe
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:28 pm)

    Electric motors controllers can have a soft start which means gradual torque at startup as to prevent the wheels from spinning in ice and snow. I’m sure the Volt will have this.


  40. 40
    CaptJackSparrow

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:30 pm)

    You have to have a pruduct to manufacture and show it works first. Then they can have the money.

    It was for “electric drive vehicle battery and component manufacturing”, key word there is manufacturing. They don’t manufacture anything. Why give them $$$ to manufacture nothing?


  41. 41
    Tagamet

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:31 pm)

    Capt,
    Not excited about 2000 Volt wheels on the Road? I don’t get it, why not? Help me out here.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  42. 42
    CaptJackSparrow

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:32 pm)

    lol……AAAAHHHHHH…
    my typing sucks.


  43. 43
    LauraM

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LauraM
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:40 pm)

    Regardless of taxpayer assistence, GM already announced that even at MSRP $40,000 they’re losing money on each Volt produced because the specialized components are so expensive. So why wouldn’t they try to cut their losses?

    And even if GM reduced the price to $25,000, the dealers would probably mark the first generation up $20,000. It is, after all, a limited edition. Personally, I’d rather see GM get the money. Since we taxpayers own the company and all…


  44. 44
    Vincent

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Vincent
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:42 pm)

    Rear wheel drive Electrics. Momma that is just soooo sweet. Let the games begin!


  45. 45
    DonC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (7:59 pm)

    Your July 4th date was the very first thing that popped into my head when I read the last part. And I said you were overly optimistic! So much for realism.

    I personally love the idea of tying the Volt release to July 4th. That wold be very cool.


  46. 46
    k-dawg

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    k-dawg
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:01 pm)

    Zenn (and a few others did).
    … just sayin’


  47. 47
    DonC

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:02 pm)

    Oh he would have something major negative to say. The problem is, he was so good at it that I can’t even imagine what it would be. So I can’t really “statik in” for him, so to speak.

    Maybe he just knew things were getting better and he wouldn’t be able to have so much fun any more.


  48. 48
    k-dawg

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    k-dawg
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:02 pm)

    RWD = Converj
    I belive most if not all Caddy’s are RWD, but have not checked this


  49. 49
    DonC

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:06 pm)

    Hey Cap, repeat after me: Price is set by supply and demand. Price is set by supply and demand. Price is set by supply and demand.

    Seriousy, it doesn’t matter what MSRP GM sets. The market will set the price. If the the MSRP is $35K and people will pay $45K, the dealer will sell at $45K and keep the difference. Just ask Corvette Guy, he knows the drill.


  50. 50
    zipdrive

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    zipdrive
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:06 pm)

    Since I am one of the biggest fans of the Volt, and undoubtedly its chief proponent, I hereby submit my name to be among the first chosen to be a Chevy Volt tester.


  51. 51
    k-dawg

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    k-dawg
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:06 pm)

    Wonder how long the electric utilities and lucky 500 ppl get to keep their Volts before returning them to GM.


  52. 52
    zipdrive

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    zipdrive
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:08 pm)

    The current DTS is front drive. The rest are rear drive or 4WD.


  53. 53
    CaptJackSparrow

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:11 pm)

    Don’t they actually have a product to manufacture?
    ZENN that is….

    jus askin bro…


  54. 54
    Tagamet

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:11 pm)

    It would be sooo cool if that journey of a thousand miles started this coming Independence Day! What a dramatic move that would be! I know that they won’t be the final release version, but they have to be so close they’d still be “the real deal”. Maybe not QUITE like the lunar landing, but it could be the same kind of memory cue. Most people remember where they were when the lander touched down and Armstrong took those first steps. People may well remember it a few decades from now the Independence Day, 2010 first dramatic step away from oil.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  55. 55
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:16 pm)

    DonC re statik’s timing.
    Naw I doubt he’d bail just because things MIGHT be coming around. He still hasn’t SEEN or TOUCHED a production Volt, so anything could happen yet. He’d know that the production plant isn’t up yet or the batteries aren’t thoroughly tested YET. He could really peel a dark cloud out of a silver lining! (I’d bet he’d be high on GM’s list of beta testers)
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  56. 56
    Exp_EngTech

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Exp_EngTech
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:17 pm)

    I’ve been following this site daily for over 2 1/2 years.

    Since the President made this announcement while visiting my county today, I’ll happily accept one of the Consumer Test Volts.

    I’ll take one in silver with the Corinthian leather seats.

    Let me know when I can pick it up.


  57. 57
    CaptJackSparrow

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:18 pm)

    My issue is who’s really getting hit with the “LOSS” per Volt sold and aren’t we the tax payers covering this? We all know the govt doesn’t generate positive revenue to support this.
    Since we that tax payers are footing this “Golden Shower” upon them, why do we need to even pay the full price? Why do we even have to go through the rebate process to save our own $$$?

    lol, don’t get me wrong, I’m EXstatik about this.
    :-)


  58. 58
    Tagamet

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:24 pm)

    LauraM
    Congress will probably just pass a law that the dealers are only ALLOWED to make a 10% profit. Hey, why not? It’s not like it’s unconstitutional or anything. (sarcasm off).
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  59. 59
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:25 pm)

    DonC
    See my reply to LauraM
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  60. 60
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:28 pm)

    But they need the money to produce the product! (lol)
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  61. 61
    Tagamet

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:29 pm)

    Vinvent,
    AMEN! That will be sweet. Exciting times.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  62. 62
    Keith

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Keith
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:30 pm)

    Gary;

    I hope that you get one too .


  63. 63
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:30 pm)

    zipdrive,
    Ahem, take a number! (roflmao).
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  64. 64
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:32 pm)

    k-dawg
    I hope they don’t measure it in heartbeats, because mine is doing a little dance. Seriously, I wouldn’t be surprised if they wanted them back before the official Nov roll-out.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  65. 65
    Mike-o-Matic

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike-o-Matic
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:34 pm)

    Good news, indeed!

    So… Where do I sign up to be part of the consumer test fleet?


  66. 66
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:35 pm)

    Exp_eng
    I’m not as picky. I’d take one with 4 wheels, cloth seats, and a 40 AER.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  67. 67
    LauraM

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LauraM
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:36 pm)

    Yes, he’s made of bunch of important decisions, but I think that has more to do with timing than any virtue on his part. So far he hasn’t talked about anything remotely resembling decent regulation of the banks. (Giving more oversight to the Fed is a joke. At least IMHO. We need Glass Steigel back. And the uptick rule. Etc.) So far he hasn’t talked about raising the gas tax (an absolute necessity, IMHO). The stimulus plan was very poorly constructed–at least IMHO. And he signed that omnibus pork-laden bill without any serious attempt to reign in earmarks. The deficits are skyrocketing. And he doesn’t seem to be getting anywhere with health care. And while we haven’t seen his attempt at education reform, so far it sounds like he’s catering too much to the teacher’s unions with education reform. At least IMHO

    That said, I give him credit for these grants. He is trying his best to save our manufacturing sector. (Although I wish he didn’t give so much to the unions.) And, I agree with him completely about the necessity of saving American manufacturing.


  68. 68
    CaptJackSparrow

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:36 pm)

    “it doesn’t matter what MSRP GM sets. The market will set the price.”

    Yes, I will keep that in mind….

    Price is set by supply and demand.
    Price is set by supply and demand.
    Price is set by supply and demand.
    Price is set by supply and demand.
    Price is set by supply and demand.
    ….
    Thanks Mr. DonC


  69. 69
    CaptJackSparrow

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:41 pm)

    It’s gonna be a pickem up truck yawll!!!

    YEEeeeeehawwww…


  70. 70
    joe obrien

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    joe obrien
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:42 pm)

    Amazing, the thought of being able to drive an early version of the Volt is astounding.

    I would love the chance to drive and report details back of all the powertrain tweaks, and refinements.

    I’ve been working on cars for years, and have been a huge supporter of EV’s from back in the EV1 days.

    Only wonder how one could “apply” to be one of the lucky 500.


  71. 71
    Mike-o-Matic

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike-o-Matic
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:44 pm)

    AhHAahAHhaHAA!! You’re exactly right, Tagamet.

    To paraphrase an old saying, “Constitutional ain’t got nothin’ to do with it” … where what’s concerned is most federal government activities, throughout the past 12 months.


  72. 72
    CaptJackSparrow

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:44 pm)

    I think A123 deserves it myself.


  73. 73
    Keith

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Keith
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:44 pm)

    Now the pressure is really on at GM to perform .
    How do you spell “stress” ? “VOLT”


  74. 74
    Mike-o-Matic

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike-o-Matic
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:46 pm)

    Yeah, good luck with that ;-) You’re gonna have to arm-wrestle me for it!! :D


  75. 75
    CaptJackSparrow

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:51 pm)

    Hey Tag, when the 500 Volt’s wheels hit the road, you’ll need a new “tag” if you will….

    LJGTVWOTR will have past.


  76. 76
    kdawg

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8:57 pm)

    No. I was saying Zenn and some others gave a lot of $ to EEstor.


  77. 77
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:00 pm)

    Ya know, that hadn’t occurred to me yet. I’ll be thrilled to “lose” it. Then it’s just NPNS I guess.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  78. 78
    CaptJackSparrow

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:07 pm)

    OH!
    OK, I getcha now.

    My bad dude….no beef.


  79. 79
    ccombs

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ccombs
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:11 pm)

    as much as that sort of symbolism crap tends to annoy me, I think it would be incredibly good marketing to release the test fleets on July 4.

    “We declare independence from foreign oil” etc. would be a great slogan.


  80. 80
    reagan williams

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    reagan williams
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:20 pm)

    I WANT ONE PLEASE! I am #1200 on the waiting list. I am a high school teacher and very media savy and will get it in all of our local media outlets.


  81. 81
    kdawg

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:22 pm)

    Technically, that time has already passed


  82. 82
    Spin

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Spin
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:23 pm)

    If this is the place I would like to submit my application to test one of the pre-production Volts. I was formally employed by a major aerospace firm and held a position in their test laboratory so I am experienced in testing methods and practices. I have a 57 mile, one way commute to work, and the ability to charge at work. I work the afternoon shift, so the trip home will be with headlights on. My place of business is in midtown Manhattan, so the Volt will be driven in the worlds largest auto market daily, and when parked it will be visible from the street. On some weekends, the Volt will make the 400 mile round trip to my summer home in the Poconos.

    When and where can I pick it up?


  83. 83
    Tagamet

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:23 pm)

    They could buy the rights to the Independence Day movie soundtrack. It’s rousing and they could use Will Smith as their representative.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  84. 84
    Xiaowei1

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Xiaowei1
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:39 pm)

    Current volts are deliberately soft started to stop reporters spinning the wheels (as revealed in a review I read), but you will find a lot of people want the benefit of “instant torque”. The same review said the soft start won’t be there on the final product. This is of course counterproductive in the wet with a hill start. But again, there is the “instant torque at stake here. If the Volt can sense it is going to spin the wheels and accommodates, this would greatly improve the situation but this has to be carefully implemented, as the car might feel really slugish when taking off, or even worse not take off at all on those hill starts…


  85. 85
    omnimoeish

    -4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    omnimoeish
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:42 pm)

    What I think is interesting is that the DOE apparently has more access to GM’s future product specs than we do! How do they know there’s a rear wheel drive EV power train in the works. What gives?


  86. 86
    Spin

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Spin
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:43 pm)

    Actually, I was formerly employed. lol


  87. 87
    omnimoeish

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    omnimoeish
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:45 pm)

    Hehe, I love the green competitiveness that’s building up in the Pacific Northwest! I love how almost any corporation who needs sedans are using Priuses for their fleet for the green cred.


  88. 88
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:46 pm)

    Why wouldn’t the govt know what’s in store at GOVT Motors? We own the place, we’re just not management.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  89. 89
    omnimoeish

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    omnimoeish
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (9:47 pm)

    I think Prowler (from the forums), AKA SPARKZZ, should be a test driver. He is a loyal GM-VOLT.com poster and has been driving his Tesla now for a while so he could give some helpful comparative critiques of the Volt.


  90. 90
    mbartosik

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    mbartosik
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (10:10 pm)

    I wonder if this 500 will be in addition to the fleet that GM employees, sounds like it. Maybe GM will use our wait list to find some beta testers.


  91. 91
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (10:15 pm)

    Spin,
    You had me until you threw in the Pocono summer home. (g)
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  92. 92
    Lev

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Lev
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (10:18 pm)

    Was thinking the the same thing.

    Anyway this is great news, and I can’t wait to see these test fleets and the good publicity it will generate.


  93. 93
    Lev

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Lev
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (10:19 pm)

    Well there would only be one thing to do…paint the car in American Flag theme.


  94. 94
    Lev

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Lev
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (10:20 pm)

    This man does not speak for all of us…I personally have nothing to do with fornicating with engines of any type.


  95. 95
    texas

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    texas
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (10:34 pm)

    I’m surprised our government is being so smart! If you think this is good, wait until all the other countries start announcing similar programs so they can keep up!

    Since we know it’s all about the battery, the more billions that are spent the better. With good batteries we have a fighting chance to transition away from petroleum with minimum pain and suffering.


  96. 96
    hayley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    hayley
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (10:39 pm)

    Why do I get the feeling someone is going through and thumbs-downing every post from Tag?

    Interesting though not surprising that a bunch of schools are getting funding for this, not just companies.


  97. 97
    Unni

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Unni
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (10:43 pm)

    EEStor and Zenn didn’t get loans :-(


  98. 98
    CaptJackSparrow

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (10:50 pm)

    Technically, if I traveled 50 miles, the OPEC tether comes back like a choke chain.


  99. 99
    CaptJackSparrow

    -5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CaptJackSparrow
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (10:51 pm)

    phuk that. it’s all about MEEEEE dammit!


  100. 100
    jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (11:16 pm)

    Owners don’t get much say ultimately, except for the original entrepraneurs, until they’re pushed out anyway.


  101. 101
    jeffhre

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (11:18 pm)

    Oh my :(


  102. 102
    jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (11:20 pm)

    What do you do when someone gives you money? Complain that you don’t have enough time to use it :)


  103. 103
    DaV8or

    +10

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DaV8or
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (11:22 pm)

    Wow. I got minus 2 on this comment. I guess some people think EVs should only be shitty little low performance people movers. Truly sad. Let it be known that the desire for automotive performance (high speed fun driving) and stylish looks will not die with the ICE. I can guarantee you this.


  104. 104
    jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (11:32 pm)

    We need something akin to Glass Steigel, but you and I seem to be the last ones to think so, appears to be a hindrence to free markets in most eyes. I’ve been wanting to say deficits explode during wartime also but few complain about that, thanks for the opening.

    What was the topic, Hehehe, would be good to see ccombs / Tags Independence day commercial with a line of a hundred or more Volts driving out of Hamtramck.


  105. 105
    merlin

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    merlin
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (11:33 pm)

    I’m with you all the way on this. A lot of these decisions seem like they’ll be haunting our collective pocketbooks for a long while (horrible misuse or negligent pork protection for the taxpayer). But on this topic of supporting manufacturing jobs, the money doesn’t seem out of control and I certainly agree in principle about recovering manufacturing jobs in this company. (Excepting of course that it’s just more money, and we’ve already spent too much that we don’t have in general). Haven’t seen or heard anything that makes me think this was a bad idea yet. I haven’t seen anything specific on the bite that the unions might take out of this at this point though.


  106. 106
    jeffhre

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (11:43 pm)

    The revenue comes from developing a viable industry before Asia and Europe start sucking away the investment dollars, consumer dollars, market share, profit and taxes generated from innovative and successful industrial operations, while lessening receipts for foreign oil and gaining the economic multipliers of having those dollars in NA with less need to pay for the effects of pollution from using oil and burning gasoline.


  107. 107
    CorvetteGuy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (11:46 pm)

    To Kerry Christopher;

    I am available to join your National Presentation Team.
    I look forward to hearing more about the rollout.


  108. 108
    CorvetteGuy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Aug 5th, 2009 (11:58 pm)

    Did someone say $10,000 over?!!!

    That might work on a high performance car where the goal is to burn up as much gas and tires as quickly ad possible, but when the goal is to SAVE MONEY at the pump, a large addendum sticker is just going to piss people off and generate a LOT of bad press.

    I don’t think there will be much if any for that reason.


  109. 109
    Zel

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Zel
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:01 am)

    I’ll take one…no, really I would….today…now!


  110. 110
    LRGVProVolt

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LRGVProVolt
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:04 am)

    It sure would be nice if GM did use our wait list to choose beta testers. I have questioned about the testing done in the lab to see how the batteries perform under extremely hot weather like we have here in the Lower Rio Grand Valley. I am retired and have nothing better to do (well almost nothing to do – except for my wife finding numerous chores for me … lol) than test a Volt, if I were lucky to be one of those chosen few.

    Before retiring I knew an associate who was lucky to have a sweet deal testing vehicles. He would have a different vehicle every month. These 500 Volts that consumers will be testing probably will be providing GM with real consumer feedback on the Volt in a variety of locations around the nation under conditions more varied than what has been done before. They will no doubt be giving GM ideas that we will see in future Generations as well as important feedback on consumer acceptance of the Volt.

    What a fantastic way of advertising this car with 500 vehicles spread across the country!


  111. 111
    Silly Little Automobile

    -38

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Silly Little Automobile
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:10 am)

    (click to show comment)


  112. 112
    Spin

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Spin
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:18 am)

    It is actually a “cabin”.
    Did I get you back?


  113. 113
    Lars Hastrup

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Lars Hastrup
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:19 am)

    I like to be one of the testers too – even the fact that I live in Denmark – why not ?


  114. 114
    Zach

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Zach
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:21 am)

    You were -3 and I bumped you back up to -2 (lolz). I’m right on with you, however, I do think that now is too soon. GM NEEEEEDS to focus on energy efficiency, as that’s what the majority of the public is looking for.


  115. 115
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:38 am)

    hayley,
    I noticed that too, but I try not to sweat the petty stuff. Thanks for noticing it though!
    I’m glad the universities are getting some funds for research, simply because I was in education a lot of my career (though not in the union (I don’t like teacher strikes that hold kids hostage). Possibly to prime the pump in the areas the govt wants to emphasize? possibly to pay back teacher union favors. Lots of successful research turns into a small business and that eventually means cutting edge jobs e.g. MIT has a ton of startups. It’s not new to this administration – except for the sheer volume of $ (adding to our national debt.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  116. 116
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:41 am)

    Sorry, yachts have cabins too (lol).
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  117. 117
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:45 am)

    ESPECIALLY that last sentence. Great advertising and stirring up the “buzz”. I just hope that they don’t go to the most powerful congressmen’ districts based on political power.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    PS I’m retired and could test it every waking moment!! Even the “human engineering/industrial psychology” angles.

    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  118. 118
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:48 am)

    Statik would have known that and provided a link to back it up. Probably by how many they could build in a given timeframe.
    We miss you statik.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  119. 119
    Mark Z

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mark Z
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (1:21 am)

    It’s a clear message from the US government that eestor won’t be introducing a “battery” during the time frame of this grant.


  120. 120
    Capitalism Sucks

    -26

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Capitalism Sucks
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (1:39 am)

    (click to show comment)


  121. 121
    Rashiid Amul

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Rashiid Amul
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (5:05 am)

    Of course, I am volunteering to be a tester as well.


  122. 122
    Brian

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Brian
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (5:45 am)

    A traction control feature would allow you to easily turn this off or on. When on, you can’t spin the wheels.


  123. 123
    Brian

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Brian
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (5:49 am)

    this money infusion helps reduce the long term risk of this technology. But, if they rush the 500 Volts before they are totally satisfied that all bugs have been worked out, it would add risk to the long term confidence of the consumer.


  124. 124
    Rashiid Amul

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Rashiid Amul
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (6:16 am)

    The $7500.00 tax credit comes to mind.


  125. 125
    FME III

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    FME III
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (6:34 am)

    Undoubtedly GM had to do a little disclosing of how it would spend the money before it got the grant.

    I’m glad to see that LG will get the capital to build the plant in the US that they’ve said they would…. more jobs.


  126. 126
    FME III

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    FME III
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (6:40 am)

    Probably not the Converj … The idea behind the Converj is to minimize development costs, and maximize profit, by essentially putting new sheet metal and a nicer interior on a Volt platform.

    I would guess it’s the Voltec Orlando. THAT would be a killer app.


  127. 127
    Joe

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Joe
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (7:12 am)

    My guess is that would be for trrucks.


  128. 128
    Serpent2

    -3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Serpent2
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (7:24 am)

    We are catching up to them.. most countries that matter and have a big role in the economy have already invested heavily in battery tech.


  129. 129
    Serpent2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Serpent2
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (7:26 am)

    Next gen camaros and corvettes? Something I have been begging for on messageboards for a while.. We’d see the better, stronger, tech in those cars that would trickle out to the mainstream cars as new tech is created.


  130. 130
    Xiaowei1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Xiaowei1
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (7:44 am)

    Hope you are reading GM!


  131. 131
    RB

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    RB
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (7:51 am)

    Let’s watch carefully and see who these specially selected “testers” are.
    Maybe they will be a cross-section of people like us :)
    More likely, they will be well connected people, political, press, entertainment. :)
    Either way, it will be good to get some Volt wheels on the road.


  132. 132
    VOLTinME

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    VOLTinME
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (7:53 am)

    I am wondering why this sort of news doesn’t make the mainstream media. This is exciting but I just haven’t heard much about this in the news.


  133. 133
    Serpent2

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Serpent2
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (7:56 am)

    Will be great for GM if they do the EBay thing and then just ship to the nearest dealership for the winner to pick up. Then GM will be making that extra 10-20k per car that someone is willing to pay.. that will help offset the cost of things and prevent GM from taking too hard of a hit. Once auction sales start to level off then introduce the volt to the dealerships. It is a GM product and they should be allowed and able to make a huge profit off of it instead of some slimeball at a dealership that will charge over msrp and THEN even add some additional crap fees… and what can you say about the fees? “Well, then I am not taking the volt if you are charging those fees”.. They wont care.. they will just take the next person in line that will pay whatever for the volt.

    With the amount of money GM could make by auctioning the car it would behoove them to create their own auction site at GM.com. .. Pay the dealership for taking the car or setup GM owned dealerships/warehous/distribution centers.. a walmart/ sams club for cars. Keep it simple, cheap, and low overhead. Keep some models on site for test drives too. If GM is going to profit they need to rethink their distribution and sales method. Take out the middle man that is profiting hugely.

    There can always still be gm authroized dealerships and repair shops. That should be profitable still. At least for a little while until the cars become exteremly reliable.


  134. 134
    Jim in PA

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim in PA
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:12 am)

    Hmmm. Rear wheel drive EREV? Put the drive shaft AND the battery in a center hump and you are talking some serious space issues, folks. Seems like a rear-mounted electric motor would go a long way to addressing that.


  135. 135
    Jackson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jackson
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:19 am)

    With no need to route turning shafts through distributed gearboxes, perhaps electric rear drive is a (relatively) simple matter of bolting on and stringing wires (much more complicated from the electronics/controller point of view, though).

    These could be in-wheel motors, or an integrated motor/transaxle mounted in place of a conventional differential (and probably similar in size), with shafts from there to the rear wheels.

    As I’ve mentioned on the board in the past, these could have a higher final drive than the front wheels to give better performance over a range of speeds (front wheels do most of the braking, so a lower gear ratio there means more regeneration).

    There could very well be an AWD option offered on Voltec platforms that we already know about.


  136. 136
    Jackson

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jackson
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:23 am)

    Hmmm. Do you suppose he still votes?


  137. 137
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:39 am)

    Lol, that would explain all my negative 1′s.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  138. 138
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:41 am)

    Rashiid,
    This is likely different because it mentions how many of a specific company’s vehicles are to be purchased.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  139. 139
    N Riley

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:43 am)

    Let me say it once again. I am ready, willing and able to take a pre-production Chevrolet Volt and drive test it just as soon as GM is willing to give it to me. I have the time, money and desire to do this. GM, just contact Lyle for my email address and contact me when you are ready. I live in an area that would be good for testing the Volt.


  140. 140
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:43 am)

    Omni,
    It’d be nice to circle THROUGH gas stations to wave at the people at the pumps!(lol).
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  141. 141
    Arch

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Arch
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:48 am)

  142. 142
    Jim I

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim I
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:51 am)

    I’ll bet statik is really sorry he picked this week to muzzle himself….


  143. 143
    Jackson

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jackson
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:54 am)

    I think you have to run around bare-chested with a sword, or something.

    No wait, wrong “500.” ;-)


  144. 144
    Jackson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jackson
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:55 am)

    Canadian company.

    Not to diminish anything said above.


  145. 145
    Jim I

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim I
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:58 am)

    Since we have discussed being part of a test fleet years ago, I think that GM should go back through Lyle’s old posts from 2007. I think you will see that many of us volunteered for this way back then!!!!

    You newbees will just have to wait your turn…..

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    In all seriousness, I hope that GM places those 500 Volt’s all over North America (USA & Canada). That is the onlt way to get a real test of the system in all weather conditions, road types, and driving styles.

    Go GM – Go GM Volt Team!!!

    NPNS


  146. 146
    Jackson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jackson
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:59 am)

    Yes, or in-wheel motors.

    There’s no doubt that AWD on an electric car would be mechanically simpler, but don’t forget also that the power electronics (controller) is going to need an extra set of channels for each motor that’s added.


  147. 147
    Starcast

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Starcast
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:01 am)

    This is very UnAmerican. Sorry I want Electric cars as much as anyone. BUT throwing money at something never fixed anything.

    We are moving toward electric cars with or without government grants.

    These were not loans these are gifts to private companies.

    This is like no bid contract, But there is no contract, think about.

    The clowns we have in Washington will throw money at anything correction at everything.

    And they wonder why we are all mad as hell.


  148. 148
    ronr64

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ronr64
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:02 am)

    How would regen work on a rear wheel drive vehicle? The majority of your braking takes place with the front wheels since the vehicle transfers weight to the front under braking. (assuming you are moving forward!) Sure there is still some braking that takes place with the rear wheels but if you have ever driven a vehicle with only rear brakes (I have) it is downright scarey how little braking ability you have. It would seem to me that a rear wheel drive electric would have diminished ability to recapture its energy during regen braking.

    Now AWD is another story of course.


  149. 149
    Tagamet

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:02 am)

    Capt re 50 mile choke chain:
    And you’d have saved 80% of the gas. Just plugin between trips for an hour and save it all.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  150. 150
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:04 am)

    Lev,
    Works for me! I’d LOVE a flag on mine. Tough to do that with a Nisson.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  151. 151
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:12 am)

    Capt,
    I’m EXstatik AND EXlaxtic!
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  152. 152
    larrymcfall

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    larrymcfall
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:17 am)

    It appears as if GM was prepared for this eventuality and now it has come true. As we all know, new technology comes at an expense and GM has been aggresively working the VOLTEC issue.

    These grants which seem to fall in all the catagories that GM’s technology base covers will be a blessing if GM does not see it as an opportunity to give out ridiculous bonuses. NO! we will not forget in the near future that the American Auto Industry with the help of the Union caused their own problem.

    GM has a good restart with the Volt/VOLTEC project and it needs to be taken as a start for future success.


  153. 153
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:18 am)

    Mike-O-Matic,
    The constitution comment seems to have quieted things a bit (however briefly).
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  154. 154
    Tagamet

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:20 am)

    Jim I
    Yep re statik’s timing. I hope that it drags him back here!
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  155. 155
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:21 am)

    Rashiid,
    My bad, I got cross-threaded. You’re correct.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  156. 156
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:23 am)

    Jackson,
    That’d bring a chorus of “Put it back ON”. Besides wasn’t it the “300″ Spartans?
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  157. 157
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:32 am)

    RB,
    Good point re the selection process. Will they alot a certain (small) percentage to be assigned through this site (Lottery?). I hope so!
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  158. 158
    Koz

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Koz
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:34 am)

    Will it fit on your couch?


  159. 159
    Tagamet

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:39 am)

    DaV8or,
    Don’t worry about the negative points, someone is giving me a -1 on ALL my posts. Somebody’s just got too much time on their hands.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  160. 160
    Koz

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Koz
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:40 am)

    awd…Awd…AWd…AWD

    Forward genset/traction motor with clutch to switch or Hybrid through the road.


  161. 161
    Koz

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Koz
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:42 am)

    Maybe that’s Jay’s (Statik’s) new joy. Heeheehee


  162. 162
    Koz

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Koz
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:55 am)

    I would be very surprised if they don’t have traction control. Good question for Lyle to ask.


  163. 163
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:56 am)

    The clowns in Washington may be in for a little surprise next fall. I am going to be working towards that end as much as possible. Then in 2012 there may just be another surprise in store for the remaining clowns. No political party is exempt.


  164. 164
    LauraM

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LauraM
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:58 am)

    I don’t have a problem with this grant. I think it’s a great idea all the way around. My problem is that he gave too much to the UAW through the GM and Chrysler restructuring. And I’m worried that that will undermine their future viability. But that has nothing to do with this grant.

    I agree that US has too much debt in general. Public debt and private debt. But there is a difference between taking on debt for consumption and taking it on to make an investment. The US spends way too much on consumption and not enough on investment. IMHO, that’s our biggest problem. This grant is an investment. And I definately approve.


  165. 165
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:00 am)

    A rear wheel drive system could very well be for small pickup trucks and delivery vans. It does open up a wide range of possibilities.


  166. 166
    Lwesson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Lwesson
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:06 am)

    Lev, some enlightened one does not like your missive about our LEADER. Likely, your negativity will put you on an enemies list. I tried to talk to a friend yesterday about the inability to have any thought other than glowing smiles and a raised right hand to the current situation and also The Leader’s inability to tolerate opposition. I got a raving lunatic yelling that I was, along with others, dividing the country… . I am looking forward to a Reichstag type “fire” in the future to, ah, UNITE and guide the people.

    Per the money for research, fine. NASA is an excellent example of tax dollars doing something in the grand order of human achievement. Sadly, of the trillions of dollars being thrown about (away), devaluing the currency, (Humm thinking about the Reich Mark hyper inflation) NASA is only, NOW, about .5% of the Fed. budget and The Leader wants to cast a dark eye at that pauper’s budget! Why? Because things like NASA just don’t mean anything to this guy. So a bone to research is about one good thing done.

    The Lads are reminding me that the previous DECIDER was out of his league too and thus we have our new fearless LEADER.

    Zeus and Apollo smell, “What is it? Smoke?”

    Regards——–Higgins & Furry Co.


  167. 167
    Noel Park

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:15 am)

    How about that?


  168. 168
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:18 am)

    Me too.


  169. 169
    LauraM

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LauraM
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:19 am)

    Yes. Deficits explode during wartime. But that doesn’t mean that they don’t have a consequences. When you’re in a war that you need to win at all costs (WWII), it makes sense to take on that cost. But we didn’t needed to go into Iraq. And most of our spending over the last eight years wasn’t even war related! And it definately limited our ability to take on more deficits now.

    Also, there is a difference between domestically owned federal debt, and foreign owned federal debt. We paid over $400 billion in interest on the federal debt this year–that means higher taxes and fewer services. Roughly half of that went overseas, which adds to our trade deficit.

    These articles explain it better than I can:

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/28/federal.debt/index.html

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-07-04-national-debt_N.htm

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/business/economy/04rates.html


  170. 170
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:24 am)

    koz,
    For a Volt I’ll make house-calls (my house that is) (lol)
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  171. 171
    Lwesson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Lwesson
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:27 am)

    LauraM, well The Leader is on some constructive track for curbing the ridiculous neutering of the U.S. manufacturing base all for the profit of Corporations who seem to reside mentally, outside the confines of the host Nation State. Maybe.

    Raising the gas tax is too self serving for the Volt types. You will hurt the poor who need to drive, have to drive, to get to work… and you will hand Das State even more money to throw to it’s ever dependent and growing supporters. Europe taxes petrol to the sky and nothing has come Volt like from it. Unleashing the tech genie will do the trick and research and actually making an electric type auto will be the start to reducing the oil cartel.

    Unfortunately or not what I said about traders rigging the prices of oil is NOW FINALLY being give a serious look. The traders are in a sweaty panic! This will bring the price of oil in line to real market forces and not the Alice in Wonderland prices that we have seen. While that helped the Volt… it was not real, and pissed a great deal of people off. Oil will settle downwards but fear not, projects like the Volt are too well seated to just end! Yet the final paragraph sets a somber tone.

    The rolling disaster of hyper inflation due to devaluing the currency will wreck havoc not seen since the German Mark collapsed. Oh, and the price of oil will skyrocket. Likely the Dollar will then be replaced by the very demigods that created this situation.

    Regards LauraM!——-Higgins & The Lads


  172. 172
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:29 am)

    500 Volts, or 2000 wheels, are just a spit in the ocean. The new tag can be:

    Let’s Just Get Some More Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!

    LJGSMVWOTR!!

    Or:

    Let’s Just Get 1,500,000 Volts” Wheels On The Road!!

    LJG1,500,000VWOTR!!


  173. 173
    Ricardo

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ricardo
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:32 am)

    Actually, EEStor is American. ZENN, a Canadian car company owns a small part of EEStor, as does Kleiner Perkins – perhaps that’s what you’re thinking. Anyway, of course, GM’s going to get more money thrown at it, if only to prevent the original bail-out wasn’t a waste of taxpayers’ money. Besides, if EEStor comes through – and I know it’s a bif ‘if’ – EEStor won’t need any government money.


  174. 174
    Noel Park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:34 am)

    Hey Arch! Good to see ya man!

    I used to call you the King Of Links. Maybe you can take up some of the slack from the loss of statik.

    Best regards.


  175. 175
    Noel Park

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:35 am)

    Thank you Mr. President.

    Go ahead on!!!


  176. 176
    N Riley

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:35 am)

    I feel somewhat at a disadvantage when trying to make comments on this site because most of these articles Lyle post are at night (early evening) and I do not have the time to access the site until around 9 a.m. the next morning. So, if I reply to someone’s comments it is usually 12 to 15 hours after the person submitted the comment. By that time there might be 25 to 50 “replies” connected to that comment. Most of the “replies” don’t even have anything to do with the original comment, but are replies to other replies and cover a wide range of topics not even related to the original comment. This is one of the primary reasons I don’t like this new format. I do like the reply feature, but I wish people would not just tack any comment onto the original comment unless it is directly related to the topic of discussion. If you want to bring up a different topic, do it as a separate comment. Please! Just doing this one courteous thing would help keep the topic clear of “clutter”. Now, I have vented my thoughts. On with the discussion.


  177. 177
    N Riley

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:40 am)

    You do remember that Statik said he would be looking in and reading our comments. So, Statik is this the way you are treating our Tag just to kid with him? You are such a kidder. But we miss you still.


  178. 178
    Starcast

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Starcast
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:41 am)

    You & Me Both!!!
    I am long time member of the Libertarian party, maybe it is time to give us a chance.


  179. 179
    grat

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    grat
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (10:42 am)

    The majority of the public wants cheap cars that they don’t feel stupid driving. This is why hybrids still can’t crack 3% of the US market– they give up too much in the name of efficiency.

    The only concession the Volt appears to have made so far, is in styling– it’s a bit bland, but very aerodynamic.

    I’m hoping the Volt makes electric cars mainstream.


  180. 180
    Tall Pete

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tall Pete
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (11:05 am)

    Starcast wrote :

    This is very UnAmerican. Sorry I want Electric cars as much as anyone. BUT throwing money at something never fixed anything.

    ——————————————————————————————

    Well, it’s a bit naïve to think that ‘throwing money’ on something doesn’t change the dynamic of the situation.

    It’s misinformed to think it’s unamerican.

    The US engaged in the race for space in the ’60s because Russians were ahead. Realizing that, JFK set an ambitious goal. And threw money (a lot) toward that goal.

    End result : the US won that race, eventually the cold war ended in favor of capitalism and the entire computer industry (and silicon valley) was the benefit of that space program.

    So it’s truly american to spend lots of money to win a race where America is trailing. And the new industries that will be born thanks to that spending effort will help the country become richer. Or stop getting poorer, depending on how you look at things.

    The private sector will develop where it is cheaper to establish the manufacturing plant. Right now, it’s anywhere BUT in the US because other countries are subsidizing. To stay in the race, the US must do the same.


  181. 181
    Magilla

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Magilla
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (11:09 am)

    Since I live in northern VA and work in DC, I’m hoping that there will be an effort to get Volts on the roads where members of Congress and their staffs drive every day. :)

    If not, I am hoping for the lottery Tagamet mentions above!

    Good luck!


  182. 182
    Shock Me

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Shock Me
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (11:12 am)

    I think the reason he is talking about and acting on so many issues with time for adequate debate is that the longer people have to look at his plans the less they will like them.

    My personal opinion is that this is the first money he’s spent that might actually have an real impact on the economy (in the future) and our energy independence.

    Though I disagree with our current President on the solution to most of our problems, in this he has arrived where I have been since those snide sand hillbillies at OPEC choked off the oil in 1973.

    Then we can finally move on to finding new ways to finance and improve our roads, water networks, electrical grid, and waste disposal (minus Yucca mountain aaargh!)


  183. 183
    Shock Me

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Shock Me
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (11:19 am)

    k-dawg

    Could it be a modified Zeta RWD platform?

    Sign me up for a 2014 Buick Velite (Wildcat)


  184. 184
    LauraM

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LauraM
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (11:46 am)

    I understand that raising the gasoline tax will hurt the poor, but they can neutralize that by making part of it deficit neutral and sending the proceeds to the poor. A gas tax is the only way to encourage people to a)take public transportation (there are people who drive when they could take the subway), b)get kids to take the school bus, c)make people drive their cars around town instead of their trucks, d)stop buying SUVs if they don’t need them. I could go on….

    By the way, the federal government is broke. And they desperately need money to a)fix our crumbling infrastructure (and maybe making it more environmentally friendly), b)build more public transportation, and c) pay back the deficit. They’re going to have to raise more money somehow.


  185. 185
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (11:47 am)

    N+N,
    It DID occur to me that it might be the spirit of statik haunting the place. With all this funding stuff hitting the news, I really thought that he might come back. We could sure use him!
    Did you notice that some of the funds were to pay for the specialized parts – probably used in the Volt? THAT could effect the initial price and REALLY get it rolling out of the box!
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  186. 186
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:24 pm)

    I am not sure any particular week would have been a better week. I look forward to getting some good information at least once each week. There is just too much going on in the auto world for us not to. Plus, Lyle will be getting his IVer ride pretty soon. It is all good. Except no more Statik. Generally speaking, of course.


  187. 187
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:29 pm)

    I don’t see where this grant money will reduce the price paid for the first year’s production Volt. I think that price is pretty well set in stone. Some final minute positioning of the price up or down, but not enough that you would really tell. On the second or third year production Volt it may have more of an effect. Or help get a Volt sibling on the market sooner. Certainly will allow some companies to pursue technology that may have had to wait a while longer. Just helps the U.S. companies develop this new technology sooner.


  188. 188
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:32 pm)

    Yeah, but that MEEEEE is really me, not you!


  189. 189
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:35 pm)

    I hope you are right, Jim I. That would be the best plan, but I would not hold my breath until it happens. I suspect 5 or 6 cities and selected “big-shots” in those cities will be the testers. It will be a shame if that is the case, but that is the way of things, it seems. It is very unlikely it will be a steel worker from Pennsylvania, for instance.


  190. 190
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:38 pm)

    I agree. It would seem more appropriate to start the consumer testing by March at the latest to give plenty of time for analysis of the test results. Of course, they did not mention any time frame for the test including length. It may only be for 30 days. Who knows at this time.


  191. 191
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:46 pm)

    NASA funding does not buy votes. Simple as that. Plus funding NASA takes money away from funding projects that will buy votes.

    I would like to have a president who would get off the campaign trail and do some work in the White House. How about taking time to sit down and actually read the Health Care bill before asking congress to hurry up and pass it. They want it passed in a hurry so no one will have time to find out what is really in the bill. The devil is in the details. Old saying, but a very true saying.


  192. 192
    N Riley

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (12:59 pm)

    Whether this grant money has a real effect on the economy depends when it will be issued and spent by the companies. If it is next year it will be a day late and a dollar short. The Stimulus Bill enacted earlier this year was not a stimulus bill but a spending bill. Most of the money is to be spent on things that will not stimulate the economy one bit. The best thing the congress could have done is to reduce taxes on the middle class and small business or declared a tax holiday for 90 days. A number of things could have been done to actually stimulate the economy quickly. Every tax savings passed onto the average citizen would have been money spent to aid the economy. Even if the taxpayer paid off their credit cards with the tax cut savings it would have freed them to spend other money instead of paying off the C.C. debts. But our government only knows how to tax and spend. Plus you can’t purchase votes by giving middle class taxpayers and small businesses a tax break. You buy votes by passing out grants to your supporters around the country. And there is plenty of that in the so-called stimulus bill. IMO.


  193. 193
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (1:04 pm)

    I would be happy to take on the job of selecting the 500 consumers for GM. Well, the last 499 anyway.


  194. 194
    LauraM

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LauraM
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (1:15 pm)

    Tax cuts help the economy in the short term. But they do nothing to fix our fundamental problems. Too much consumption. Not enough investment. Too much debt. Too much outsourcing. And too much reliance on foreign oil.

    The best thing about Obama, IMHO, is that he does believe in scientific research. And funding alternative energy. This is only one of the projects he’s funding.

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10202041-54.html

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10291215-54.html

    http://earth2tech.com/2009/02/17/obama-signs-the-stimulus-whats-in-store-for-clean-energy/


  195. 195
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (1:28 pm)

    I doubt anyone in the government knows anymore about EEStor than some of us on this blog. That company is not giving out information to anyone not closely associated with them. The U.S. government is certainly not closely associated with the company.


  196. 196
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (1:30 pm)

    Capt Jack,

    Am I to assume you are not happy with this situation? You really need to clarify your position better and not hide your feelings. Just asking. And, no, the price will not be lowered enough that you could tell the difference. So, what’s new?


  197. 197
    Shock Me

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Shock Me
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (1:45 pm)

    A reduced tax rate in the proper range raises revenue but there is a point of diminishing returns if spending is not controlled as well.

    Raising taxes above a proper range slows economic growth. This leads to inflation and devalued currency.

    Too much economic growth leads to cheap money, bad debts, and eventual collapse of the credit system.

    We save too little, our government spends more than it collects. When it borrows it crowds out capital for private business raising the cost of borrowing for everyone.

    To top it all off, Since FDR we spend tax money before it is collected.

    We need to:

    Spend what we collect after it is collected.
    Divide what is collected among all the various priorities as a percentage of the budget.
    Use a percentage as a surplus to pay down the debt instead of borrowing more.
    Upgrade the electrical grid
    Build more power plants (u pick the kind)
    Pull the electricity the last twenty yards to the parking space.
    Fix the roads and bridges
    Build out every alternative energy source as much as we can afford

    Government should provide funds for basic research to produce:

    Batteries or other energy carrier that meets or exceeds the power to weight ratio of the Gasoline ICE
    Road surfaces requiring less maintenance
    Protective coatings for bridges, sewers, and water
    Improved PV materials
    Biologically-based substrates
    and a few others that escape me


  198. 198
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (1:54 pm)

    Capt Jack,

    I did like you being EXstatik about it. That’s a good term.


  199. 199
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (1:59 pm)

    Well, they are sucking away a large portion of the Cash for Clunkers money. At least you would think congress would have corrected their over-sight by limiting the new money to be paid on American owned auto company vehicles. It is just another example of a stupid congress and administration. Not thought given – just act quickly so they can waste more money. Heck, I am pissed because I don’t own any clunkers to trade in. I get rid of them before they become clunkers. Maybe that is my problem. I am too damned independent and don’t depend on the government largess enough. But, they couldn’t buy my vote anyway. It would be a losing cause. Anybody trying to buy me would make me go 180 degrees from where they want me to go. I am just that way.


  200. 200
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (2:02 pm)

    LauraM,

    Since you seem to want the government to get more money and GM along with it, why don’t you just write both a check each month. That way you could start a ground swell movement and get everyone doing the same. I bet an idea like that is just waiting for someone to get it started.


  201. 201
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (2:05 pm)

    DonC,

    Repeat after me: “Price is set initially by cost and then continued, increased or decreased by supply and demand”. Or do I just assume the company pulls a number out of thin air?


  202. 202
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (2:08 pm)

    Capt Jack,

    Zenn does have a product to produce and sell, but no one is buying them because of their range limitations, size and cost. If EEStor is able to do what they claim and Zenn can successfully install it into their latest prototype vehicle, they will have a very good product to sell. But, as always, it seems, that is a mighty big IF.


  203. 203
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (2:32 pm)

    Seems like most of the money is going to “Blue” states. Surely not by design like most of the stimulus money. Surprising too, there was little for California. Now why do you think that is so? You would think they would have a lot of companies and institutions that would qualify. Be interesting if they had to publish the reason for choosing each company/institution to get the money.


  204. 204
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (2:42 pm)

    Doesn’t matter what word or words define a “summer home”. That places you in a category most of us are unable to experience. The words “formerly employed” are words a lot of us are experienced with and the way congress is spending us into debt, many more of us are going to be experiencing those words. I hope you are now employed or are on track to get employed. We need every taxpaying citizen we can get to help pay this debt off.


  205. 205
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (2:45 pm)

    It was my impression the GM IVer test fleet would be supplemented by a release to the public, companies or groups for testing this coming year. That was covered several months ago. In other words, yes, it is in addition to the GM test fleet presently being built and tested.

    Edited: The IVer test cars are built in the “lab” where they are determining production routines, etc. The 500 next spring/summer will most likely be built on the actual assembly floor utilizing the newly created assembly lines an equipment. They, the 500, will be like a test run for the assembly plant. So, it will serve several purposes for GM.


  206. 206
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (3:02 pm)

    One way GM could improve this consumer testing is to produce 1500 Volts for us to test. Plus it would give them more testing of their assembly process. I think it would be a great idea, GM. The more the better all the way around.


  207. 207
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (3:10 pm)

    Arch,

    Thanks for the link. That link confirms what we were discussing a week or so ago about Buick getting the plug-in Vue technology. And the Spark and Orlando coming in 2011 is good news also. Just too bad that all three could not make it next year by the end of the summer. GM needs as many new high-mileage vehicles hitting the road as soon as possible.


  208. 208
    N Riley

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (3:15 pm)

    Reference comment #39 submitted by me at 10:35 a.m. today:

    This is what I meant in that comment. There is absolutely no other comment added to the end of this topic since 10:35 a.m. and it is now 3:10 p.m. CDST. Roughly five hours. If you want to see the comments added between these two times, you have to go through the complete list trying to find them by time submitted. That is a long, drawn-out process. It is enough to make you cry. I want the old system back. This is just too much to dig through. 206 comments and none at the end after 10:35 a.m.


  209. 209
    N Riley

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (3:23 pm)

    Now I see some of the reasons Statik gave for not having enough time to devote to the site anymore. I feel his pain. I am becoming of the same mind. Fast losing interest. There are other ways to contribute. More important things to occupy my time. I try not to blog at night and on the weekends because of “family time”. I am blessed with a job that pays very well but requires very little of my time on a day to day basis. I mostly just wait for something to happen out of the ordinary to our computer system (a failure of software, which is pretty unlikely, or a hardware failure, which is also pretty unlikely). We run an IBM mid-range computer system (AS/400. iSeries, System i type computer system). Software developed in-house by myself and my very small team. So most days I have plenty of time to blog. But it is becoming more of a chore for me each day. Thinking about taking that next step. Maybe Statik has something we all crave. (More free time.(


  210. 210
    stas peterson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    stas peterson
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (3:28 pm)

    It looks like money to bring the second generation dual -mode hybrid and PHEV drivetrains to market…


  211. 211
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (3:43 pm)

    OK. Now I see where some of you have gone. A new topic is available on the home page. Should have known. I will take a “read” view of it. Maybe more or less. Glad to see the plug-in Vue vehicle see the light of day. This might be more for me.


  212. 212
    Starcast

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Starcast
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (3:46 pm)

    To compare the Space race to out right giving money to private companies is a joke.

    All of us and many companies benifited from the space race but in no way did JFK just give money to private companies. Companies were hired by the Government to build parts just like any other government program they bid to get the contracts.
    Now we are just giving the money to some companies with no bid and in fact no contract this is just a gift or corprate welfare if you will. Nothing like that ever happend in the space race.

    This is what has made the USA the greatest country on earth. Our government has not (in the past) and should not pick the winners, The market should.

    Sorry you can try to spin this anyway you want but it is and always has been UnAmerican for the government to pick the winners.
    You state that other countries are doing this. How on earth can anything be more unAmerican then doing something wrong just because other countries are doing it!!!!

    These companies are all already working on electric cars is this just an attempt by Obama to take credit for something that is happening with or with out him?


  213. 213
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (3:50 pm)

    N.Riley,
    Lets just vote every incumbent out as long as the replacement vows to support term limits.
    Seems fair.
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    LJGTVWOTR!!***********NPNS!


  214. 214
    Starcast

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Starcast
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (3:52 pm)

    Also the cold war ended because of Regan not the space race.

    The space race was over long before the cold war ended.

    The arms race was what broke the USSR.


  215. 215
    Lwesson

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Lwesson
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (3:58 pm)

    LauraM per the Gov. being broke and it desperately needs money, it is kind of like handing a teenage boy the keys to a hot car and a pint bottle of bourbon. WEEEE! The car gets wrecked and by God here he is again whining about the need for another car. Magnum wrecked the Ferrari once and there he was back, looking sheepish as a choir boy.

    The situation of being broke is interesting. We are now spending as a part of the GNP somewhere near what we spent when we were fighting two major conflicts in WWII. Sure, let the State take all of the money made and it will still be looking for more. I know, they want more and more from me.

    THEY, are out of control and by the way, it is The People who are the ultimate arbitrators of power, in the US at least and not the other way around with People being but mere subjects of the State. From this perspective, using tax as a bludgeon because some think we need to do this and some people should not do that, really smells of a tyranny in the making. Bit by bit the State assumes all power.

    Sending proceeds to the poor. Redistribution of wealth and doing it by compensating the poor for higher gas taxes does not pull the poor by the nose to ride public transport…

    I will maintain that the tech genie is out of the bottle and it is only a matter of little time that we will have alternatives in “fuel” choice/freedom/liberty. I will have my electric, eventually and my ’51 Pontiac. Seeking a 1925 or so model of some vintage car to go with the ’25 bungalow.

    The Lads are barking at some kids walking outside. Walking! Heavens!

    Kind Regards!——–Higgins & Co.


  216. 216
    stas peterson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    stas peterson
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (4:05 pm)

    Laura M,

    When will you stop buying the hype that 19th century mass transit technology is more efficient than letting single drivers drive gargantuan SUVs? Moving several hundred tons of metal is expensive from an energy standpoint. A two hundred ton train carrying 50 passengers still allocates 4 tons or 8000 pounds for every passenger carried, Most SUVs with but a single driver only consumes 2 tons to that task.

    The official propaganda says that it is 28% more efficient; that is a distortion and true if and only if a) the passenger cars are fully loaded every stop from one end to the other, and they never are, of course .b) you neglect to include the cost or energy used to travel from your starting point to the train, and then from the train to where you really wanted to go.

    That also doesn’t include the lost opportunity costs for taking considerably longer to travel eliminating productive time.

    The only “mass transit” that makes sense is a 21st century model based on the satisfied millionaire’s model. Many Millionaires use a chauffeur driven driving experience. Modern technology can provide a ‘mass transit’ analogue, by fully lane packed utilization under robotic control, and that allows the vehicle to find its way to storage, and/or other use,

    Like driving itself home to provide the vehicle the wife needs for her daily driving needs, before returning for the evening commute. And always available for changing needs, like a summon-able Chauffeur does. It also provide door to door service and not to an often distant parking space.


  217. 217
    Lwesson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Lwesson
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (4:07 pm)

    N Riley I just wanted to say that I agree with you. I kind of want to know how one agrees about what is actually a real problem. If I get it, today we have pundits who announce that they se a problem and that’s it. No discussion needed, now go away quietly, nothing to see here… . Thus MORE Alice in Wonderland, ie: the Cap and Trade business.

    And now I can be burned at the stake for that last sentence.

    Regards! Higgins and the furry ones


  218. 218
    stas peterson

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    stas peterson
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (4:27 pm)

    Obama doesn’t give a fig for genuine Science. He casually killed the Yucca Mountain Waste Repository for a very transitory electoral boost for Harry Reid. Without a care for the future.

    He hasn’t funded our annual TREATY REQUIRED contribution for the ITER Fusion experiment for two years,as far as I can tell. His selection of that ignoramus John Holdren as his Science Adviser is further proof that he no respect or concern for it.

    According to Holdren’s analysis you are either dead or should never have been born, as the US population is less than 18 million starving peasants for the past twenty five years, So much for Mr. Holdren’s power to think or, Clueless’ ability to discern Scientists from demagogues.. Dr, Chu at DOE is better, but he is a useless, powerless, figurehead and easily and constantly ignored,

    Herr Obama’s respect for only politically correct Science is manifest in the Cap & Tax hoax that even AGW true believers like Dr, Hansen has cursed as an abomination.. And also in the refusal to fund stem cell research that has produced the only real advances; in favor of the unproductive phony, made-up, research, that is politically-correct but favorable to Planned Parenthood.


  219. 219
    Red HHR

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Red HHR
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (8:15 pm)

    Ah, have any in red? Red is the cover car color…
    Mecum auctions, I would say at least 50% of the cars are resale red.
    With a red Volt on the cover I might even buy the magazine,

    Red HHR (in victory red)


  220. 220
    Me (Rickey Bobby)

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Me (Rickey Bobby)
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:15 pm)

    I’ll bet statik wishes he stayed here now……..:)


  221. 221
    Me (Rickey Bobby)

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Me (Rickey Bobby)
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:20 pm)

    I think Lyle should be on the list of testers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  222. 222
    jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:24 pm)

    Billions more for a dump that’s already cost billions and remains unused. Funding this project financed solely by the government and not the market means someone is for science? I think I need a few more facts to be convinced of that one :)

    “Dr, Chu at DOE is better, but he is a useless, powerless, figurehead and easily and constantly ignored” …Interesting assessment?


  223. 223
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:27 pm)

    “me”
    I’ll bet statik is lurking here, just waiting for my thousand papercuts to heal (old joke here about us jabbing each other – had to be there).
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!!!***********NPNS!


  224. 224
    NZDavid

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    NZDavid
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:30 pm)

    But I read EVERY one of them.

    I SURE do miss your other half though. Its funny how attached I have become to a bunch of people I have never met.

    LJGTVWOTR
    NO plug, NO sale.


  225. 225
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:37 pm)

    NZDavid,
    It’s definitely amazing the kind of “relationships” that develop here. And yes, I miss statik too. (I think he’s here “undercover”)(lol).
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!!!***********NPNS!


  226. 226
    NZDavid

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    NZDavid
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:41 pm)

    Maybe Tag, but I’m sure I would be high up on GM’s list of better testers.

    /wink


  227. 227
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:51 pm)

    “NZDavid”
    You dawg. (g)
    Be well,
    Tagamet
    Let’s Just Get The Volts’ Wheels On The Road!!!!***********NPNS!


  228. 228
    NZDavid

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    NZDavid
     Says

     

    Aug 6th, 2009 (9:52 pm)

    I just want my Volt

    IJWMV
    NO plug, NO sale


  229. 229
    Lwesson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Lwesson
     Says

     

    Aug 7th, 2009 (8:14 am)

    Right there. What a mess. Of NASA, what is left to fund buying votes is pocket change these days. It is a personal disconnect for El Hefe. Events that NASA helps create also take away attention from someone who is the antimatter of what NASA is. Being able to tamp the agency down is a power play. More details, more Devil.

    Regards!——H & Co.


  230. 230
    Stan

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Stan
     Says

     

    Aug 7th, 2009 (11:31 am)

    I hope LG does a better job on the battery then they did on my lemon dishwasher. I wish GM would have kept everything made in the USA.


  231. 231
    Ian

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ian
     Says

     

    Aug 7th, 2009 (11:43 am)

    Sign me up for Volt test driver. I drive around 4000 kms a week. I would certainly give the vehicle a good going over with highway and urban driving.
    Deal me in.


  232. 232
    Tom Harwick

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tom Harwick
     Says

     

    Aug 7th, 2009 (3:23 pm)

    I reread your story a couple of times. You state that the fuel cell car at $250k per car is more practical than a Volt at $40k. This makes no sense.

    Just saying “I bet they will get cheaper” is not exactly a well reasoned argument.

    PS…your comments about EVs straining the grid are unfounded. They will be charged at night, when the grid is nearly idle.

    Hydrogen has no future as an automotive fuel because there is no good source for it. Hydrogen is not a natural resource, it is a manufactured product that requires more energy input to make than it yields as a fuel.


  233. 233
    LauraM

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LauraM
     Says

     

    Aug 7th, 2009 (4:22 pm)

    Have you ever seen the New York subway during rush hour? Let me tell you–they’re packed.

    And I walk to the subway, and generally to my destination afterwards. And so do most other New Yorkers. That is not expensive energy-wise. Or if it is–Americans need to get more exercise anyway.

    I don’t know the exact figures of how energy efficient the subway is. But I’m pretty sure its better than if we all took cars! The congestion alone is already problematic. And New York City’s emissions per capita are around a third of the national average. I’m pretty sure the subway has something to do with that.

    That said, I really like the idea of a car that drives itself. I’m not sure how much energy it would save. But it sounds incredably cool.


  234. 234
    LauraM

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LauraM
     Says

     

    Aug 7th, 2009 (4:31 pm)

    When gas was $4.00 a gallon, a lot more people took mass transit. And they flocked to hybrids. The price effect matters.

    As far as using taxes to force behavior–right now we keep gasoline artifically cheap. The price does not come even close to reflecting the actual price for society. Your right to an SUV doesn’t cancel out my right to clean air. Or my right to live in a secure country without paying a fortune in military spending. Or even paying for the wear and tear you caused on the roads with your heavier vehicle? If we taxed gas, SUVs drivers would have to compensate everyone else for the actual costs of their actions to society.


  235. 235
    Erin Rager

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Erin Rager
     Says

     

    Aug 8th, 2009 (5:38 am)

    I have been on the waiting list for the chevy volt at our local
    Dealer here in Modesto California. I paid a deposit to get onto
    the list. I have been a Professional Class A Driver since 1992.
    I would be willing to document any process that you need.
    I am trained to pay attention to detail, and skilled in defensive
    driving. Any distance testing that you needed, I am conditioned
    to do. I also have experience driving our great 48 states and
    Canada. My comment is, When I get my electric car, I want
    a stand alone solar power stand to plug into. NOT my house.


  236. 236
    Lwesson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Lwesson
     Says

     

    Aug 8th, 2009 (8:58 am)

    LauraM Who is or are, “we”? Who exactly is sitting someplace deciding some, “actual” price for society? What is the “actual” cost of gas? And the “actual” costs for SUV drivers on society? Again, what is that cost, who calculates this cost, how is it determined? I am not even certain that the actual number of SUVs on the road constitute a marked burden on the environment vs the police state action (cost to The People as per their Liberty) to “persuade” the public from this option on transportation.

    Your right to clean air is interesting. I live in Houston. A long time ago the air was more akin to that of Mexico City (been there) terrible! As a people dedicated to a highly organized and thoughtful culture, through their representatives, we have gradually paid a huge cost to greatly reduce pollutants. Remove LEAD from petrol (duh)… . Even our petro chemical plants that supply the rest of the country, while still most dirty are not anywhere the polluters that they used to be.

    Now if I were concerned with pollution and I am, I would look Globally for a broader perspective on what is hurting LauraM’s quality of life. Because of many factors, greed being foremost, somehow it is 3rd world China and India… that are somehow magically major industrial players. POOF! Just move 1st world manufacturing to dictatorships and 3rd world countries where “pollution” is NOT a concern to them, from autos to factories to power plants. And their contribution is growing with a never may care attitude.

    I am looking at the clock as I have to leave soon…

    Cap and Trade: Several points: When studying Earth Science, at a major University mind you, circa, ’80 there was not the manipulative hysteria about warming. We studied climate change in a geological perspective and in current times. Quickly, there was every indication that current conditions in the future would not prevail in the long projection. The rise and fall of global situations and showed that there are huge, really huge forces in play. HUGE. The GEICO cave guys did not end the last ice age but then being men, then maybe they did. In fact, there was much consideration and fear of ice age conditions and just how they show themselves before arriving and what the cycle of such icey calamities show for those who might be interested. Seems that the precursor is global warming according to ice cores, tree core samples on fossilized trees… Computer tabulated simulations according a very liberal prof (LOL!) could be manipulated and while 1980 was the Stone Age we studied the vagaries of how to construct global models, good ways and bad ways with our rocks and sticks. Like giving a statistician a hot computer global program and a pint of whiskey and saying, go have a great time.

    To me, cap and trade is a device to manipulate the wealth of the Euro Centric nations in a negative way and for some to make a great deal of money kind of like the stock traders who manipulate the actual cost of oil in wild speculation in something that they have created on the OUTSIDE of real economic forces. They are crying foul at being looked at and screaming NOOOOO, at having this Golden Goose turned over to a chef.

    Have to run. Regards! Higgins and the fur boys.


  237. 237
    Lwesson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Lwesson
     Says

     

    Aug 9th, 2009 (1:18 pm)

    Indeed! Bravo! Stas Peterson——-Higgins


  238. 238
    DTW

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DTW
     Says

     

    Aug 10th, 2009 (12:16 pm)

    Dear GM,
    Please consider me as a test fleet driver based in Western NY.
    DTW


  239. 239
    Milton

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Milton
     Says

     

    Aug 11th, 2009 (12:22 pm)

    Add me to the list of volunteer testers. As an electrical engineer who supports the development of electric propulsion in cars, I am impressed with the GM Volt’s capability.