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Pre-production Volt in Motion: Lead Designer Bob Boniface says “Its Like Christmas Morning”
Bob Boniface is the chief designer of the Chevy Volt. In this GM video he discusses what the current pre-production state means from a design standpoint and what work is yet left to do. We are treated to some new moving footage of the pre-production vehicle in black.
Boniface explains at this point his team is now looking for fit and finish, gaps and flushness.
He says cars are meant to be seen in motion and this is the first time he can do so with the Volt and thus “its like Christmas morning for me,” he says.
“It looks like a different car to me,” he adds.
He says buying cars is an emotional purchase and that cars are very much a fashion statement.
“We were able to strike a good balance between aerodynamic performance, and those visual cues that excite a buyer,” he says.
He closes by stating the car is “meeting the aerodynamic performance,” that GM had set out for it.
Below the video you can also join in a real time webchat with Bob today at 2PM EDT.
Posted by: Lyle
July 28th, 2009 at 6:04 am
“He closes by stating the car is “meeting the aerodynamic performance,” that GM had set out for it.”
Now there is some serious news! My commute is 90% highway and I don’t expect 40 AER at 70 mph, but anything close and this car is a SLAM DUNK! If GM can engineer a Volt to live up the the promises made two years and a bankruptcy ago, then the Volt, the Voltec program, and even ‘N’GM have a fighting chance.
And might I add that this car looks great in black?
NPNS!!!! =D~~~
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July 28th, 2009 at 6:19 am
The Volt will get 40 AER highway.
The Chevy Volt’s Electric Range is 40 Miles in Both Highway and City Driving:
http://gm-volt.com/2009/04/24/the-chevy-volts-electric-range-is-40-miles-in-both-highway-and-city-driving/
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July 28th, 2009 at 6:23 am
from the article,
He says buying cars is an emotional purchase and that cars are very much a fashion statement.
I will be happy to cut down on my support for terrorism.
I will be shocked that I am purchasing a GM car again after 20 years.
I will be sad for parting with $30K – $40K of my hard earned money.
And I will be extremely delighted if it helps keep are soldiers safe.
Yeah, it will be an emotional and very proud moment the day I drive off the lot in my new shiny Volt.
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July 28th, 2009 at 6:27 am
Yes, well said!
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July 28th, 2009 at 6:28 am
It’s a nice looking car… now it’s the count down to production. It does look especially nice in black.
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July 28th, 2009 at 6:43 am
My 1974 Chevy Nova was black. I don’t think I will own another black car again.
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July 28th, 2009 at 6:53 am
When they plug in the charging connector in the video, I could see a couple white fuzzy spots in the old charging port area.
Does anyone know if those are charging status indicators or am I imagining something ?
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:08 am
While the car is attractive, I think the more important appearance issue is that it looks “normal”.
For major market acceptance, I think its very important that the Volt NOT have an exotic, “I’m saving the planet” look, but instead is a car that most people could easily accept in their garage or driveway.
The real beauty, of course, is what it DOES, not what it looks like. And that is what people are really going to like about the Volt. I think that, because of its remarkable abilities, the first Volts will be a bit of a sensation wherever they go.
It would be really fun to be one of the first owners.
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:15 am
You can bet that if Chevy promises 40 all electric miles they will diliver at least 40. Under virtually any circumstances.
And the hypermilers will do considerably better.
You’ll see.
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:16 am
I love the looks of that car. Particularly the front end. The way the hood is designed is sweet.
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:16 am
THe US should design its cash for clunkers to only include the volt like japan did with their C fofC that only includes the prius.
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:24 am
By hypermilers I know you meant a group of people.. but you wont have to use pulse and glide tricks to get good mileage with the Volt, just drive it gently and perhaps even slow down and you will maximize range in both modes.
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:26 am
I would include the Ford Fusion.
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:27 am
Sweet video. It is so cool to see the actual car driving around now. And it looks awesome in black!
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:31 am
Rashiid, DaveG, I will third those thoughts! I will be visiting my Exxon dealer every 2 to 3 months, for a whopping 5 gallons of gas. I still think the gas tank should be at least 8 gallons for a total range of at least 440 miles, but I can live with the probable 6 gallon tank.
What is up with the Chevy bowtie? Dead as the dodo or simply fading into the grill? And didn’t one of the engineers say at one of the presentations that the plugin had been moved to the front license plate?
Definitely looks great in black, but I question the utility of a black EREV anywhere but up north. But it does look very good…
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:33 am
Yeah , I see those. And they don’t appear on the other side of the car.
My guess: One light indicates “charging” when you first plug in.
The other light indicates “charging complete”.
This would be useful and fun (for me) because I could peek out into my garage and see if the Volt is fully charged up, without having to get in the car and look at a dash light.
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:39 am
They should interview you for a Volt ad (seriously). Maybe drop the $ part (though true), but the rest rings true for a lot of people – even outside our “fringe group”.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:41 am
This is just like our “Voltmas Eve”. We should gather to watch the first production model roll off the line and sing Voltmas Carols!
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:49 am
AND it doesn’t look like an Insight/Prius Clone.
Well put, Mikeinatl
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:51 am
I don’t think I do what is commonly called hypermiling but, I do drive for milage. I pay attention all around me to the other cars so I know when I will need to speed up, brake, pass, or turn and try to do these things as smoothly as possible, In addition I drive at as constant a speed as I can while antisipating the start of a hill so I can optomise my down hill speed as much as possible. I hope this type of driving will serve me as well with my Volt as it has with the Buick.
My concern is regeneritive braking, I brake as rarely as possible and expect little advantage from that feature.
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:56 am
Yep, that’s the way I drive too.
By “hypermilers” I just mean sensible people that are in tune with the efficiency of their driving.
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July 28th, 2009 at 7:56 am
Tune = We wish you a Merry Christmas
We know we’ll be happy with our new Volt
We know we’ll be happy with our new Volt
We know we’ll be happy with our new Volt
‘Cause we’re driving gas free!
(or)
Bring a shiek to his knees!
(or)
‘Cause we’re saving our trees!
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:01 am
No, not moved to the license plate. It was moved down below the original electric door thingy in front of the driver’s side mirror. It is now a regular circular gas-type door.
This is visible in the video above.
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:07 am
As for the Bowtie, I think they probably just don’t have it on this pre-production car yet. Maybe they haven’t decided how big to make it.
You can see a couple of little tabs where it might attach.
Rest assured, it will be there for the production models. Chevy will be proud of this car and want everyone to know it’s a Chevy.
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:09 am
It looks like you have to pull everything out of the trunk if you want to get at the charge cord. From a practical matter, that means that the owner would probably buy an extra cord for their garage. It would make charging up overnight while on a road trip a bit of a nuisance.
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:12 am
All my cars are black…so we cancel each other out. (=
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Just because GM says it will have a 40 mile range doesn’t make it so. Let’s wait for real world driving.
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:18 am
You certainly can tell Bob was in charge of design after listening to that video…that man is really working hard to ‘talk it up,’ I would be too…he isn’t exactly batting a thousand with this project and the design elements.
In reality there is nothing particularly special about it. It is just a car like any other, in fact it may be less special than anything else in 2011…certainly it will be the plainest car in the $40,000 price range.
…but that isn’t why we are going to buy it, so I digress.
/just built it already
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:34 am
(click to show comment)
July 28th, 2009 at 8:35 am
So what you are saying is that my prefered smoky burnout launch when the light turns isn’t ideal?
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:36 am
From October 2007:
—–
“He (Bob Boniface) says the design goal was to make the car something people wanted to own from both an emotional and visual standpoint, beyond it’s sensibility, and not just be “a science project”. They wanted to steer clear of the “sensible shoes” or “Brussels sprouts” (good for you but you don’t really like them) look of the current hybrid crop”
“He says “the show car was very sporty and personal, and the production car will be very sporty and personal”, and will be a “handsome automobile”. He wouldn’t give too much more detail, because he doesn’t want to ruin the surprise.
In terms of the glass in the roof and doors, he corrected me that it is actually polycarbonate, and admits he is aware of the greenhouse effect of a glass roof requiring more electric draw. They are looking at both ideas of appearance and function and trying to find the balance, but the main goal is customer appeal.
http://gm-volt.com/2007/10/08/gm-volt-exclusive-brand-new-interview-with-bob-boniface-gm-director-of-volt-design-on-the-production-model-volt/
===========================
Mission accomplished?
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:38 am
I noticed the lack of emblem’s too.
The “Volt” one is missing above the plug door as well.
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:41 am
I just hope that GM can improve their paint quality… the last 2 GM cars I had…. the paint just does not stand up… unless you go to a metal flake… the basic paint jobs either fades quickly or chips off so easily… Multiple appications of a high end wax does help tho..
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:42 am
I don’t see that as an issue since I’ll install a 220 connector in the garage.
I’ve never seen a ‘public’ charging station, as far as I know there are none in Western Canada!
I think the ‘trunk cord’ will spend a lot of time in the trunk in my world.
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:43 am
There’s no reason that the vehicle couldn’t send you a time stamped text message to your cell phone when it’s recharged as recharged as it gets. They could also make it ding like a toaster when its recharged. Just sayin. Maybe for gen III.
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:45 am
In reality there is nothing particularly special about it. It is just a car like any other, in fact it may be less special than anything else in 2011…certainly it will be the plainest car in the $40,000 price range.
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I think that it is the best looking “green” sedan. I know that some people are disappointed that the concept look (sports car) was abandoned. On being “nothing particularly special”…that has good and bad points. It is “good” that it does not look like a “green” car. The “bad” is the preceived sub-par styling for the estimated price. People expect many things for $40+K…but those dollars went into the powertrain. However…the first Prius had the looks of a $15K or less vehicle…IMHO.
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:50 am
“My concern is regeneritive braking, I brake as rarely as possible and expect little advantage from that feature.”
Regenerative braking is not 100% effective in recapturing all the lost braking energy, so you want to do as little of that as you can.. even in a Volt.
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:51 am
DING!
I like that!
Maybe you can retrofit one to your bike!
That would be funny!
Jeez, even the cars are texting now…
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July 28th, 2009 at 8:54 am
I DO love a clean black car!
The reason that they look better in the shade is because then it’s harder to see the DUST!
I’ll take the nice cool silver blue, it’s close to the dust colour around here!
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Absolutely true.
It’s interesting what makes a car ‘feel’ like $40k.
Make the switches good ones and make the doors feel like vault doors.
STEAL the seats from a MB C Class, or BMW M-sport
If there is to be ‘wood trim’ make it REAL wood.
Perceived quality is in the details.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:04 am
The phrase “buying cars is an emotional purchase and that cars are very much a fashion statement” should be carved in to wooden plaques and placed on every office desk in the GM Design and Marketing Departments.
40 – 50 – or 92 mpg – - If the VOLT doesn’t have the Fit, Finish and Performance of a $50,000 car, I don’t think the “green” aspects will generate enough ‘emotion’ for the average buyer to plunk down $35,000 to $40,000 (and by average, I mean people other than those who read this blog).
Yes, we all agree the VOLT is one of the first steps to energy independance. Beyond this site, who cares about that? GM needs MASSIVE sales figures on the board. They have a lot of government loans to pay back. They need profits.
The engineers need to make the VOLT a “performer that just so happens to run on electricity”. The Marketing guys need to make sure everyone knows it.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:06 am
______________________________________________________
I’m very pleased with the looks of the Volt.
I find the looks to be very elegant with subtle yet distinctive styling cues connoting confidence, sport performance, & hi-tech.
Good job Volt Design Team.
I want one!!!
______________________________________________________
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:08 am
Jeff, I agree completely. Those who have seen the Volt in person will attest that it is a beautiful design. Trouble with 2 dimensional pictures is that they are only 2 dimensional – I think most of us will find the Volt to be both unique and striking in appearance, yet certainly mainstream ( but neither bulbous or teardrop in shape like the prissy and the insight ). It will NOT get lost in the clutter, IMHO.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:09 am
It is a ‘fine’ looking entry car, but that is about it. However, we just had a discussion that a ‘green’ car should have its own name/identity and its own easily recognizable look.
Clearly function over form has won here. Lets say this is 2011, how do you make the case that the Volt is any better looking than its own stable mate, the sub 20K Chevy Cruze?
http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/2010_chevrolet_cruze_official_image001.jpg
…if it was unique, you wouldn’t have to. Heck, you even have the sub compact at Chevy looking like this:
http://autonewsamerica.com/media/blogs/auto%20news%20america/2011_chevrolet_spark.jpg
I love what the Volt does, it lets me drive without using gas, and I’ll buy one (if they can get it to me in a timely fashion), but for $40K the car has to look/drive/feel like something as well to make a really big impact.
It is the most cutting edge car/tech GM has put out in a long time (maybe ever), yet it will be the plainest/boringest car on your local Chevy dealers lot in 2011 (had the new Mailibu not been delayed).
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:09 am
When they went to the water based color coat/clear coat process in the late 80s, car paint took a big step back.. but it still is one the most expensive steps in car manufacturing. The problem with clear coats is that it is hard to see how much of it you put down (since its clear), too thin a coat will wear out prematurely and then the color coat will go quickly. They also try to use the minimun amount of paint they can, its very expensive stuff.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:10 am
I think so.
Keeping in mind that 5 door hatchbacks appeal mostly to families.
I have one of those.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:12 am
I can’t argue that one, my ‘88 Calais was a nice car, but the paint was not great. (They missed the clearcoat in several places.)
Lots of wax was my solution too.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Troll alert ! I’m told the Volt will come in a variety of colors, but the fallback option is a Ford Fusion – not a prissy.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:13 am
I’m happy that Bob’s very happy. Good luck, GM.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:16 am
OK, so we have seen it in black. I don’t want a black car. I am ready to see some more colors. Bring them on GM.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:16 am
I never really noticed in the earlier photos, but is the front bumper REALLY low to the ground? I imagine it’s for aerodynamic reasons, but I hope they’re testing driving it over some good-sized speed bumps and the like.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:24 am
Does yours only have 4 seats?
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:25 am
Fringe group? Hey, and I thought we were part of a “cutting edge” group. You learn something new every single day on this site.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:25 am
OK, I prefer the look of the volt over the look of the Cruise.
Which makes sense to me because the Cruise is the latest in the “Cavalier” styling line. Which is expected because that’s it’s target market.
The Volt needs a few ‘high end’ touches and I think it’ll feel the part just fine.
Billet or stainless steel grill?
I’d still like to see LED headlights…
(although I also understand the cost issues)
Subtle top quality chrome/billet accents
I’m thinking BMW/Mercedes understated.
I see no reason why buying a Chevy should mean lame plastic interiors.
The Volt can and should stand tall with anything out there.
I say out German the German’s.
Make it a car people WANT not one they think they ought to buy.
Built like a Mercedes, priced like a Chevy. THAT will sell cars!
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:26 am
The material behind the head light lens appears to be too dark on this black version of the car. you can’t see the features of the nose well as a result. They need some light tones matching the grill around the edges of the headlights or something…otherwise it looks like ’stealth’ car. maybe it looks different in person…
am i alone? that is headlight area too black. Get a stylist down there and give it more highlights!!!!
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Still no video of the car running on generator? or have I missed a video of that?
I really want to hear generator mode and know what the MPG is.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Unfortunately, that wouldn’t help too much with today’s sales.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:27 am
OK, GM. You heard it hear. Now listen up. Good job, Corvette Guy.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:29 am
One more thing…
For all of the GM Engineers following this site: Mega-Kudos for your work on the 2010 Camaro! The Fit, Finish and Performance of that car is outstanding. Keep up the great work!
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:29 am
Why not be able to access the status by web or iPhone app like Nissan is proposing. Surely GM can do that.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:29 am
That would be hypomiling.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Oh my god look at how close the front bumper is to the ground…Don’t tell me that will clear the average parking lot or gas station ramp at 15mph w/o bottoming out…
Then again i am used to a pickup…
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:33 am
It is my understanding that “regen” braking will occur when you let up on the accelerator pedal, not just when you step on the brake pedal.
I think Lyle confirmed this some time ago when he did the mule test.
He said something like “it was like one pedal driving” or some such.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Those dots are the tabs for the Volt logo on the side of the car. But did you see the “filler” cap in the trunk when he took the charging cable out? What does it serve do you think? And was that “hump” part of the battery pack or did I see that correctly?
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:34 am
The Volt moved away from the yuppie/DINK/upwardly mobile (and want to look it) demographic and moved to the quasi-family/divorced parent/functional small sedan business. Sales in year two (after the initial demand is eaten up) will tell us if it was the right move.
The ‘greenies’/environmentally conscious (like myself) are onboard regardless…as long as we feel it is the best technology to suit our mantra at the time of purchase. (I obviously would have preferred something with a little ‘hotness,’ but that isn’t my top priority right now…I just want a EV already)
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:35 am
LOL!
I was wondering what sort of reaction that would get!
Sadly none of my current cars will actually do a smoky burnout…
I’m kinda hoping my 2017 Volt SS will be able to…
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:36 am
I think when you see the car in the flesh you will think it is special.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:38 am
LOL, yep!
But at least our resident troll was somewhat subtle today… a refreshing change!
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Yes.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:39 am
I have seen the Camaro on the street, but not very close up. I haven’t gone to a show room to look at one yet because I am waiting for the convertible version to come out. I wonder if it will be a spring 2010 release. Sure would be great if it were. I would get to enjoy it all next spring, summer and fall. Come on, GM. It is a very sharp looking car.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Paint has come a long way since then.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:40 am
OT:
Saints and angels, preserve us!! No wood trim, PLEASE!
My GF bought a new Malibu last fall, an LT1. GM coulda scored a LTZ sale instead, except that she (and I) couldn’t stand the look of the wood trim.
… not that I don’t get your point, Rob… they should definitely avoid using cheap materials, regardless of the design theme.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Dave, that’s the EPA highway, which can best be described as a leisurely drive on a country road. Top speeds aren’t anywhere near 70 mph and the top speeds that are in the cycle are quite brief.
It’s hard to say because we really don’t know about the drive train losses or, for that matter, the aero losses, but a guess of a range of 30 miles wouldn’t be a bad one. Could be as low as 25 miles on a nasty windy day.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Good to see one of my friends has some sense …
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Random shot of backseat of production Volt for fun:
http://www.chevroletvoltage.com/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/volt_photo_7/volt_back_seat_20090721_1778049081.jpg
Trunk capacity shot:
http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/X11CH_VT043.jpg?download=050093
Any sedans with smaller proportions? I just got my son out of a car seat and carting around a stroller…no chance to be able to accomplish that in the Volt.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:42 am
This is a Prototype Car, they won’t add very expensive plastics like headlight assemblies until the final shapes are set.
Notice the emblem’s are missing too.
All expected at this point.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:44 am
I have wondered a few times since I first saw the production Volt design, if GM looked hard at the Concept Volt and thought it to be “too controversial”. Aerodynamic efficiency was sited as the main culprit in the design change, but I also wonder if making the car less polarizing and more mainstream looking had a hand in this as well? Bear with me a moment.
As a car buff, I was really attracted to the aggressive look of the Concept. I am very accepting of the look of the production Volt, but not as smitten. To me, it’s what the Volt is and represents that is more the key than anything. When my wife looked at the production Volt, she thought that was the nicer car. To her it looked like a regular car, i.e. not controversial, not aggressive per se, not screaming “LOOK AT ME!!!” She, not knowing much of the technology with the car, preferred the production version. Maybe that’s GM pursuit with this car, in that they don’t want to shock and awe with their first mass-market EV. Maybe they want it to be “normal” in every aspect. If you listen to these guys like Farah and Laukner in the interviews, they even say that they want the car to feel as normal as possible.
I’m really fine with the production Volt design. Leave the shock and awe for the Converj. Just build them GM!
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Thanks for the Cruze link Statik. In my opinion (which we both know only counts for something to me) that picture of the Cruz shows one very sharp beautiful car. If it really comes to the dealerships looking like that it is going to nearly leap off the lot into people’s driveways. Assuming the regular assumptions we have all voiced before (quality, price and dependability). Just think what a good hybrid system like in the Ford Fusion would do for the Cruz that is already slated to get over 40 MPG. That would be quite a car to have.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Reports I’ve read say the convertible is back on track for 2011 now that GM BK is over. I’m seriously considering one of those too.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Agreed, Rob/Maharguitar. Most who can afford this car will want more than one cord for sure, if for no other reason than to have a backup in case of “oops, I cut the cord” incidents.
Plus, being that they’ve adopted a standardized connector (SAE J1772), I’m thinking there will be less expensive (think non-GM branded) cords available… at auto parts stores, for example. That should make them cheaper and easy to find. Hopefully they’ll become a ubiquitous commodity before long.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:49 am
I pretty much agree with you on that.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Plastic fake wood trim is AWFUL.
The real thing properly finished is a sight to behold, but likely out of budget for this car.
My Jaguar roots are coming through I think.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:54 am
I think it should be limited to GM, Ford and Chrysler vehicles. Period.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:55 am
corvette guy says “40 – 50 – or 92 mpg – - If the VOLT doesn’t have the Fit, Finish and Performance of a $50,000 car, I don’t think the “green” aspects will generate enough ‘emotion’ for the average buyer to plunk down $35,000 to $40,000 (and by average, I mean people other than those who read this blog).”
——————————————————————
I think that GM is thinking along the same lines as you are, but I think that’s wrong. GM has never had a car like this. Yes they had the EV1 but while the product was right the time wasn’t. The Volt is being released at a time when you have a confluence of concern about terrorism, a concern about the environment, and a concern about living ostentatiously. It is going to a huge hit.
With all this the Volt doesn’t have to behave like a $50K car. Given that it’s basically a $25K car with a battery pack It won’t. What it has to be is reliable. If it’s reliable then it will not only sell in decent numbers, it will help GM enormously with its product image. My advice would be if there is a trade-off between reliability and performance, go with reliability.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Ok, you got me…I can’t think of any popular 5 door, family sedan hatchbacks on sale now that only have 4 seats. You have me curious, what is it? I don’t think GM sells any.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:56 am
That is real cute, Tag. Somehow I don’t think your future is in writing songs. But a good first try.
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Android app… (puts on flame hat…)
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Muddy,
Same here on the 220, but I’m fortunate to already have one from a prior need (hottub, now gone). I agree that it’ll be some significant time before we’ll have access to any significant amount of public charging opportunities. Once we have a million or so plugs on the road, “they will come”.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:58 am
True art is never appreciated until the artist dies (lol), but you’re right – it won’t drag me out of retirement.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 9:59 am
That cord would be hung up in my garage where it would be used. The chance of me ever needing one on the road is next to non-existent. But I do wonder how much an additional cord would cost.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Schmeltz; That is how I see it too.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Miss Information,
I have to agree with one thing you said. Henry Ford certainly designed the Model T for aerodynamics. He was well ahead of the auto world in that regard. You could just see the old Model T slicing through the wind on the roads at 20 – 25 MPH. Must have been a really heart stopping thing.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:02 am
N.Riley
“Fringe group” and “cutting edge” are not mutually exclusive. I ALMOST said “lunatic fringe”, but showed some small restraint (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Agreed on the Fusion.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:02 am
GM – give us a video of someone “squawking” the tires.
Where is the gasoline port?
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:05 am
That’s one stream. There are some more, which might be stated as follows:
I will be happy not to make people sick with my emissions
I will be happy to have a lower carbon footprint
I will be happy to have a car that has such cool tech that it makes my neighbor, who owns the ever so expensive to buy and maintain BMW 7 Series, with the interface which is so complicated he can’t figure out how to turn on the radio, jealous
The Volt capitalizes on a number of disparate emotional threads. In an advertising spot you have to pick one, but GM has a number of different ways it can go.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:07 am
My hot tub is still plugged in happily, but a new plug is just a couple hours work away.
I’ll wait until the Volt is here so I can set the connector in the right spot.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:12 am
I don’t think you are looking at production lights on the car. It seems that was mentioned before. But I agree about lights being a very important aspect of the frontal view. They really need to be very sharp looking plus provide excellent lighting.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:14 am
The family only has 4 seats! (guess we crossed wires there, sorry!)
And one of those seats is away at university 8 months of the year. With his own car.
A Volt will be perfect for us.
It will replace a 2002 Subaru Impreza.
(Will sadly miss the AWD though.)
I can count on one hand the number of times we have squashed 5 people into the Subaru.
4 seats are fine with me for the primary commuter/daily driver.
If I need to take more than 4 bums I have my old Malibu and my Land Rover (seats 7).
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:15 am
Just think of your wife, if you have one, pulling up to a parking lot concrete stop and taking out the ground effect plastic. Probably won’t cost you over $500 – $750 to get it replaced. If GM is doing this to get air into the car, which seems the only reasonable explanation, they need to reconsider opening up the grille more and getting rid of the “low hanging fruit” on the front. IMO.
Edited: Went back and looked at the video again. The front air damn, if that is what it is, looks to be only about 3 inches above the pavement. The first speed bump will take that thing out or badly scrape it up. I know parking lot concrete stops will. I see too many people pulling up all the way until their wheels touch those stops. That will be the end of the plastic hangy down thingy. Maybe the wife or you son or daughter will stop and put what’s left in the trunk for you. Reckon?
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:18 am
I’ll put in with you there. Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Gas filler right rear quarter.
A little tire chirp is good fun!
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:22 am
The gasoline port is on the right rear fender. I wish it was on the driver’s side. I always hate walking around to put gas in that side. I always have to think “OK, which vehicle am I in and on which side is the gasoline filler port”. Why can’t the auto industry come to a common decision about which side to put it?
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:22 am
statik says “t is the most cutting edge car/tech GM has put out in a long time (maybe ever), yet it will be the plainest/boringest car on your local Chevy dealers lot in 2011 (had the new Mailibu not been delayed).”
———————————————————-
Very hard to argue with this. However, it may be a good thing. Without getting too deeply into it, this whole “super tech/plain package” is right on point for a new and expanding consumer desires — to be an insider. You see it on a lot of luxury products where they put a very subtle detail on the product that lets those “who know luxury” understand what “those who don’t” wouldn’t.
Having the Volt be a Chevy only makes the who superiority thing work even better, especially now when conspicuous consumption is out and inconspicuous consumption is in.
As you also point out, what you don’t want is something that even an insider would find hard to spot. For example, GM needs to avoid a situation like Lyle being disappointed that people don’t understand he’s driving an electric Mini. Why pay a bundle a month if no one will notice? (This sentiment has been mentioned by other Mini-E drivers). The separate look eliminates this problem.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:23 am
I’ve had daily driver Camaros, Corvettes and now a Solstice. You get used to not dragging the front end, you just need to be careful and not drive like a woman.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:24 am
“Built like a Mercedes, priced like a Chevy. THAT will sell cars!”
———————————————————————————————
It sure would, and it would drive them bankrupt again. It’s really easy to say “Just make it as refined as a Mercedes and go like a Ferrari, then sell it like a Hyundai and you will have huge sales!” Doing it is another story. Refinement, content and performance cost money and it’s difficult to get around that. The best way to get your Mercedes at Chevy prices is just compare you new Chevy to an old Mercedes. A 2010 fully loaded Malibu, blows away a 1990 Mercedes.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:27 am
You get kudos and grins for that! Great work. I especially like the combination of the sheik and the tree thinges.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Good thought that. Not saying lunatic fringe. Some of us “might” resemble that. Or is that “resent”?
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:31 am
I agree. The 4 seat thing is not an issue for us.
I like the looks. It really reminds me of our old Impala. I could do without the chrome side accents, but that’s why they make striping tape, so no problem.
After 14 years with the Impala (probably 16 or 17 by the time we actually get our hands on a Volt, LOL), I doubt if we will be getting another black car either. It does look great when clean, but it sure doesn’t look that way for long.
I’m a buyer boys. Just get ‘er done before it’s too late.
I also have to agree that the Cruze and the Spark look very promising. Maybe the game isn’t over quite yet (he said optimistically). Once again, get ‘er done before it’s too late.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:33 am
The paint on our Impala is 14 years old, and it still looks pretty good.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:33 am
I like the idea of reliability also. After all we all want a car that will be still providing a great ride and 40 MPC after the 10years/150,000 miles. Having it still look good would be an added bonus.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Rob/Neil, you guys are the “answer twins” today… LOL!!!
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:35 am
You got me wondering about that so I went back and watched the video again as well.
It looks a lot like the plastic ’spoiler’ under the nose of my Malibu.
More curved though.
That thing is tough. it has had several ‘meetings’ with concrete parking stops and suffered only superficial scratches.
If it’s a similar material then I’m not too worried.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:36 am
The front of our 95 Impala SS is that low. We are on our second air dam/spoiler, but they are sort of a consumable item and pretty chaep to buy and install. Not a big deal in our experience.
It drags the spoiler and the tips of the exhaust pipes every time you go out of a driveway which is the least bit steep, but it has cost us about $200 in maintenance over 14+ years. No big deal.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:36 am
I like the right side because it matches my other cars!
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:39 am
I can see my Volt having a facebook page and it updates it’s status: “My owner took me to work today, I had to wait 8 hours in the parking lot, man it was hot today.”
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:41 am
In the foot, my foot. We have been trying for a head shot. Thankfully we have missed and only shot ourselves in other areas not completely life threatening. I don’t understand some of our policies. I guess it depends on which lobby group you expect to get donations from. (And to hell with the American public.)
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Well, with that let’s hope appreciating your “art” is a long, long time away.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:45 am
You are absolutely right.
However aiming for the dirt pretty much guarantee’s you miss the stars.
What I’m saying is bring up the standard.
I’m not asking for gold plated window switches, I’m asking them to build a car the OWNER can be proud of.
“Hey Rob NICE CAR! Yep and it’s ‘green’ too!”
At the price we expect to see I don’t think most people would have any issue with a little bit more to have it ‘nicer’.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:47 am
I always look for the little arrow on the gas gauge when i rent cars.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:49 am
Work is painfully slow this month…
So I have WAY too much time on my hands!
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:50 am
(Away in a Manger?)
Ahhhway in old Hamtrack, cobwebs everywhere,
They’re building our Volts there. It’s no longer bare!
Our fringe group all love it, we’re saying our prayers,
That Gm can do it, avoiding all snares.
The engineer’’s toiling bears fruit on the road
and we’ll all be cheering our e-lec-tric mode!
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:50 am
The Volt looks really sharp in the hatchback view you provided, Statik. In the back seat shot, I thought GM missed a chance to add some storage in front of the cup holders in the hump. Looks like there could be some room available there. Thanks for the pics.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:54 am
There is a lot to be said for what you are thinking. Probably played a larger role than we previously thought. Someone at GM probably thought they might get some bad PR for bringing out another “sporty” car during these trying times for the company and the public.
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July 28th, 2009 at 10:57 am
DUST?! Now I had the distinct notion that it would be mud that you would have to mask, MuddyRoverRob.
I recall a certain Land Rover who’s very appearance was brilliantly camouflaged by the very, most abundant mud that we encountered on an expedition in Africa. From a distance you could barely make it out at 30 yards. In fact I lost it, temporarily, whilst going away for a little, ah, reconnoitering.
LOL!——–Higgins & The Lads
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:06 am
The one thing I noticed was the front air dam or chin spoiler on the front end is far too close to the road or low. The first speed bump would mess that up.
I recognize this issue because my sons 1988 and 1991 MR2 have this problem especially when the front struts start to wear just a little the car will bounce slightly on the speed bumps or dips/pot holes in the road. Most MR2’s have a damaged front air dam.
If you watch the video you will see a lot of bouncing not sure if its the camera or the car or both?
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:17 am
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:18 am
I think I saw it that way two years ago, but I can’t remember now
I would like to see Boniface and the Volt design team get their completed Volt from the IVER’s of a couple different colors with all the final trim including covers for the lights painted spoilers etc. for design evaluation purposes!
I hope this doesn’t sound like a snarky comment, well maybe only a little, but for those that can’t see the difference between the production Volt and the Prius, I’d suggest you stay away from decisions that involve aesthetic choices and maybe let the significant other take over that role.
If someone can’t pass the math classes a career in physics probly’ won’t be a good choice.
If metaphor, allegory and high concept are lost every time in a good ole’ belly laugh then a literary career is out.
If every question results in a knock down drag out fight a diplomatic career is a bad move.
And if someone can’t see the differences here; designing beyond the limits of your own property boundaries might feel good, but it’s not likely to gain any influence or win any friends.
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Truer than you know N.Riley. May we all live long enough to see the “ubiquitous Volt” (Ver. IIXC).
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:20 am
LOL!
My Discovery is actually quite shamefully Muddy AND Dusty!
Silver/grey base with flat black hood (Bonnet) off road bumper and expedition roof rack and a mild 2″ lift.
Hard to tell with all the muck on it though!
I use it sparingly where it makes sense to.
Next week it will pull our camping trailer for our vacation.
(Might even wash it for the occasion, my wife would like that…)
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Me too! I want to see some cool metallic blues….
Like a sky blue – looks clean most of the time.
That was always my problem with black. They look great for about the first 15 minutes after you clean them. Then they get that coat of dust, and it drove me crazy. Not that I need much help in that department…..
Looking forward to hear what Mr. Boniface has to say!!
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:21 am
What timeframe are you talking about…
I have not seen that issue since the 80’s. Recently I have owned a 1997 Malibu and 2003 Venture, neither of which I ever waxed (other than carwash “wax”).
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Gonna disagree with you on the doors. I don’t want my vehicle doors to feel like massive barn doors or weigh as much as them. I want my vehicle doors light, like the rest of the vehicle, for optimal performance. Please note that light is not the same as cheap or weak. Haven’t we learned anything from modern racing?
Cue Colin Chapman.
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:26 am
I believe they stated that they have not fitted head light covers to the IVER’s at all yet.
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:32 am
I agree with your wife. I wouldn’t want to drive a car that screams “look at me” either. I would buy it anyway, but I prefer the production version.
I do think the concept version looked great, but it’s not me. But I’m sure GM will produce the converj for those who a) care about looks, and b)are willing to spend extra to get it.
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Colin Chapman was a BRILLIANT racing car designer.
Maybe the best ever.
I actually have gone as far as a dealer visit and order form on a Caterham 7. (The modern ‘child’ of the Lotus 7.) I then came to my senses on how much money it was…
His road cars however had and I’m trying to be VERY tactful because I respect his legacy, spotty quality. A seven has no doors, so that wasn’t an issue there.
People need to feel SAFE in their car or it won’t BE their car.
The doors need to feel solid. That does not mean heavy, but they must close with authority and NOT rattle.
(Sadly very FEW Lotus’ ever felt like that.)
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:38 am
That is a beautiful car! I love it! Terrific job.
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Yeah that can be an issue if you have to drive more than one car. I always wondered why the industry couldn’t solve that, but there is a stress free way to know which side of the pump to pull up to at a glance. Look at the little pump symbol by the gas level indicator. The side of the symbol that has the hose is where your cars filler cap is located.
Edit: some cars have an arrow pointing to the filler side.
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Tag, old buddy:
Have you gone off your meds again???
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:41 am
In other news, GM cancelled their sponsorship of the Buick opening. Personally, I think it’s a good move on Lutz’s part–they have better ways to use their marketing dollars.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090728/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gm_buick_open_4
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Amen.
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:43 am
THANK GOODNESS!
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Spare me the polycarbonate. There HAS to be a way to opt out of that.
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:47 am
I’m just curious, why are you here then?
If you have a specific issue PLEASE share it.
Otherwise you are just an under bridge dweller.
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:50 am
I get by with a two seater Chrysler Crossfire for my daily driving, and would have been happy if GM made an E-REV Solstice.
Maybe for the second E-REV purchase!!
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:53 am
If we go by published data for the Tesla Roadster, they have a graph with wh/mile vs speed, essentially battery drainage per mile traveled, graphed against hwy speed.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog4/
We know the Volts has a usable capacity of 8kwh, so to get a range of 40 miles it must use no more than 200wh/mile, this is around 47mph for a Tesla, and we could assume a bit faster for a Volt since it does not use sport tires (large and sticky) like the Tesla. I believe the EPA Hwy cycle has an average speed of 48 MPH.
Note in the graph that the power requirements of the tire drag are pretty constant no matter how fast you go (it is determined by the tires and the weight of the car, not by speed), for the Tesla it is around 50wh/mile.. since the Volt uses narrower tires maybe we can assume the Volts will consume 25wh/mile to overcome tire drag, half of what a Tesla requires.
So from the graph we can guess at power requirements and range at different speeds for the Volt.
55mph= 200wh/mile = 40 miles
60mph= 225wh/mile = 35.5 miles
65mph= 250wh/mile = 32 miles
70mph= 275wh/mile = 29 miles
75mph= 300wh/mile = 26.7 miles
So about 30 miles range at an average speed of 65mph.
This assumes the Volts is as aerodynamic as a Tesla Roadster.
Another neat thing in one of the graphs, Power vs Speed.. we can see that a 100mph the Tesla needs exactly 50kw of electricity.. by coincidence the Volts genset outputs 50kw also and it can drive the Volt at 100mph on the hwy (original design spec).
We could also work out hwy gas comsuption from this graph, but I dont know much about genset efficiency. We also see that a small 10kw genset could power the Tesla up to 50mph, if it was a serial electric.
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:55 am
That charger port plug looks expensive. I hope they have it set up so that when you lock the car it locks the plug in the port. I can see that being a problem when charging it in certain areas!
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:56 am
I hate to say it but he is right. It looks like a 94 Dodge Stratus. I think he is saying the design is the specific issue.
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:58 am
The side plastic trim at the bottom of the rocker panels is not in yet. I think the car looks better without it, although there is something that looks like a structural rod or plumbing tube that is visible below the drivers side.
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July 28th, 2009 at 11:59 am
That’s an interesting bit!
Thanks Herm!
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
I completely agree with you. I would limit it further to cars those manufacturers build in North America, and require a certain amount of North American content. Spending our money to stimulate the Japanse/South Korean economy is not my idea of a good use of US taxdollars. Unfortunately, you really can’t do that, which is why I would skip the idea altogether.
Oh, and speaking of shooting ourselves in the foot/head/whatever, did you hear about the new cafe exemption for “small volume manufacturers?” Now Daimler and BMW (and Suzuki/Mitsubishi) can make all the gas guzzlers they want. And they don’t even have to pay fines for the privilege!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124873997073285323.html#articleTabs%3Darticle
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Right. It’s true that they’ve tested by EPA and other standards, like US06 mentioned in the 40/40 link, but it sounded like Mr. Zeilinski wasn’t allowed to expunge much at all. Some ranges are within a mile of each other, okay, but which ones? I am just skeptical that the range is 40 miles at 70 mph and 41 at 30 mph.
I suspect, as I’m sure we all do, that the real ranges for 30-55-70 mph will be something like 45-40-38 miles. Come production ads, if we don’t have more concrete data by then, I’ll be worried if we still haven’t heard a number higher than 40 for highway mileage, because in that realm they _can_ legitimately push the EPA numbers, and the AER at 55 mph surely can’t be the same when going 70.
If they’d release some numbers running more accessories like the AC, I might feel more comfortable. I was just happy to hear so plainly that the aeros are working as intended.
NPNS!! =D~~~
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I think most people are with you on this one LauraM.
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Exactly. We here at this site are the enthusiast crowd. But the thing I struggle to grasp is how many people outside of our little group would actually give an EREV a look and willingly write a check out for one of these, no matter how it looked? What is the TRUE interest in the exterior world outside the walls of this site? Maybe if we are honest about it, the truth may be a bit disappointing. I can’t help but wonder if Bob Lutz was right when he said that the bulk of customers for this technology reside on the coasts. Mainstream America may prove not to be an easy sell for anything electric. Many here tout the virtues of hybrids like the Prius, (myself included), but in reality they hold a very small portion of the overall market. Almost everyone has heard of a Prius, but that certainly doesn’t mean everyone is buying one. Pick-ups are still king in the sales category.
I really think GM had a difficult decision to make with developing this car. How do you develop a car with a revolutionary drivetrain, that will be universally accepted and recognized, yet not be polarizing, boring, or ugly, and will all the while meet or exceed efficiency targets, and not be too expensive? Talk about a balancing act! In the end, they made a choice to lean towards a mainstream design for the Volt. Looking at the big picture, I don’t know if I would have done it differently either.
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
…it sounds like Corvette Guy needs a new Corvette.
(=
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
They are 2 completely different vehicles. Aerodynamics, weight and drag are completely different. Also the Tesla graph will be in ideal conditions with no A/C or heating. I would love to see the volt meeting those numbers but I’m not holding my breath until somebody has some real world driving with a production vehicle.
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
I’ve heard that this arrow indicates to which side the filler location is, although it does not on my 2003 GMC Sierra nor my wifes 2003 Elantra. Go figure.
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
It is, first quarter of 2011.
Sidenote: It actually looks really nice as a convertible, I seen one kicking around the south end of Oshawa 3-4 weeks ago, albeit with hideous two tone paint….but it was a ‘onsie,’ what can you expect, lol.
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
That is a really good thread from Tesla’s site that we’ve referenced numerous times. Note they give the operating parameters as single person load, no heat, no A/C, no headlights. Hopefully GM has squeezed out some other efficiency gains beside the tires. It will be cool to see these graphs for the Volt.
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
“They are 2 completely different vehicles. Aerodynamics, weight and drag are completely different.”
I attempt to compensate for the differences in my estimate.
“Also the Tesla graph will be in ideal conditions with no A/C or heating.”
from the link provided:
“The simplest experiment to consider, and one that gives great insight into the whole vehicle performance, is how efficiency and range vary as a function of driving speed. This is assuming that speed is held constant (i.e. cruise control) at each point. For any test or model run, there are many inputs that need to be specifically stated to make the results meaningful. So here are some of the critical inputs that we have assumed:
• Single driver ~180lbs
• Soft top or Hard top on vehicle (with windows up)
• No air conditioning usage
• No heat usage
• No headlights or cabin air blower (large 12V loads)
• Tires inflated to recommended efficiency setting 30/40 front/rear psi”
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Sadly you are likely right about that.
The Volt needs to be a big number car post Gen1, so it needs to be very nice but inoffensive and affordable. Not an easy task.
I still think that GM could make a huge impact (both for oil use and their CAFE numbers) by making 2 mode the standard driveline on all light duty trucks. I don’t know if there is a heavy duty version or not but it would be good there too.
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
“Nurse, a round of meds for the “house”….
There, that’s better. Thanks, Jim
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Reminds me of the old bar toast: “May your wife be as dirty as your truck!”
Apologies to all…..
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Jim my friend, you ‘get by’ in style!
My neighbor has a convertable crossfire, it’s a really nice car.
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
garage kept?
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
I try to keep my foot off the brake as well. In fact, in the past I’ve been able to put 100,000 miles on a car before it’s needed a brake job. (Wish I could show the same restraint on the accelerator…).
The fact that regenerative braking has losses is actually a note of hope for getting a good AER on the highway. On the highway we will be trading regen losses for wind losses, and maybe it’ll come out a wash, which would be great.
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Patent that Idea
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
I thought there was Dual mode Regenerative Braking? City/low speed was more aggressive with the feel of brakes being applied and Highway mode allowing the car to coast alot further with very little Regenerative Braking? I’m pretty sure thats how it will work because you don’t want to lift the throttle on an interstate and the car slows down quickly.
When this was brought up earlier I immediately thought I would almost never use the more aggressive Regen brake setting given I’m one of those drivers who lifts off the throttle early and does alot of coasting when approaching lights, etc. And before I take any crap from Lead Foot Drivers on this web site, I do look in my rear view mirror and make sure I’m not holding any of you up…
I thought Lyle said it was a selector switch on the dash or in the controls so you as a driver get to choose….?
Todd
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Congrats to all that are involved on the Volt project. It’s a great day for GM!
Thanks Lyle for always working so hard on this site. Great Job friend.
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
LOL!!!
Errr, no comment…
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Volt in motion really conveys it’s image nicely.
Golden Pewter Metallic (a silvery-light-green-metallic) is what I want. Are current Malibu colors going to carry forward to Volt, or will Volt have its own color groups?
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
The comment about a car being an emotional purchase is basically correct; however, I’ve felt for decades that GM’s emphasis on this has been to the detriment of other factors.
Yes, avoid the turn-offs. Under promise and over deliver.
It sounds like you’ve gotten the engineering right (knock on simulated wood-grain).
But you’d better have more ‘under the hood’ of your ad campaign than the same old glossy brochures and mood-inspiring commercials. Volt (and hopefully, the new GM) is a whole new beginning, and will require some actual education and attention to the more analytical side of car purchasing.
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Lyle already has permission from his workplace to plug in his Mini. I suspect that finding a place to plug in while on the road won’t be all that hard. Most drivers won’t ask for permission to plug in if there is a socket right next to the parking lot at a motel. Stopping off at your cousins while on the road is a pretty common thing too. I suspect that owners will be getting out the charge cord more often then they think they will. Most likely, they’ll just leave is out while traveling.
I agree that most owners will get an extra cord to keep in their garage or even permanently connected to their 220v box.
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
(to “away in a manger”
Away in foriegn lands
our soldiers may die
While families and children
are left here to cry
reducing dependance
on foreign source oil
Bring back all our heroes
to American soil
Electrification of autos is great
for 2010 I can hardly wait.
Going to GM to buy me a volt
Giving the oil sheiks a tremendous jolt
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Nice job, Mitch. A bit gloomy, but uncontested.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
My cars are all silver or white. I like silver the best but it tends to fade weirdly in the sun and (plastic fades at a different rate than the metal paint) while the white cars are cooler and because they’re so much brighter your eyes are blinded and can’t see the dirt on them.
However, I note with some dismay that there are now so many traffic cops using LIDAR that I might have to get a black car and then black out all the chrome bits. That does seem to buy you a couple more seconds before they can get a lock on.
Still, I really don’t want a black car.
I wonder what colors they really were envisioning as the “primary” design colors? I always suspected it was silver. Somebody should ask at the webconference, today.
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July 28th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Sadly, no, because it will be AWD by then.
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July 28th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
One not-so-subtle indicator of quality is … quiet.
Ask a Buick salesman.
It’s hard to imagine a potentially quieter car than one with an electric motor. As a fan of classical music, I look forward to the day that I can actually hear soft passages while driving …
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July 28th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
When looking at the wh/mile chart published by Tesla, you have to assume that the Volt will probably have a lower Cd, say .25 versus .35, and have lower RR tires. The Roadster, however, looks to have a smaller cross section and will weigh 700-800 pounds less.
To some extent these things cancel out, though perhaps not fully, leaving drive train losses as the big unknown. Those are quite significant for the Tesla. We’ll see if the “transmission no one has ever thought of before” helps here. You’d have to guess that GM will do better than Tesla — this is one area the Tesla engineers struggled in — but whether this is true is something we’ll just have to wait and see on.
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July 28th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
A co-worker really wanted an Equinox to replace her old minivan; but when push came to shove, it wouldn’t be enough of a mileage improvement to qualify for the Cash for Clunkers bill. She drove out with a newly redesigned 4 cylinder Highlander.
Cash for Clunkers was the only way she was getting a replacement for the 10+ year old van.
Yes, there was an emotional appeal to buying American (especially given current realities). But when a company can’t seem to find an in-town mpg number higher than 24, practicality has to rule.
This is an example of what I mean about excess attention to the car as an emotional purchase to the detriment of other factors. There has to be a concession to reality on every side. I think the Volt has that, in spades; but there needs to more than “emotional purchase” thinking, or it could fail.
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July 28th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
***Threadjack***
Sorry to interrupt today’s topic, but this seems like it will be a big deal for GM or I am I reading too much into it?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124874527824585671.html#mod=djemalertNEWS
“Delphi’s lenders prevailed in a bankruptcy auction and are poised to take control of the bankrupt auto-parts supplier, beating back a government-orchestrated deal to sell the company to General Motors and a California-based private-equity firm.”
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July 28th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
You may be in for some disappointment. While they’ve done their best to hide it with bits of trim and odd window lines, it’s more or less a Prius clone in shape, with slightly worse aerodynamics. Not that there’s anything wrong with this– I’d rather see good engineering win over style, and there’s just not that many ways to get a small car to have a large interior *and* be slippery. Tall, fat “Kammback” hatchbacks like the Prius, Volt, and Insight are about as practical as it gets.
http://image.motortrend.com/f/17960367+w750/112_0905_02z+volt_insight_prius+drag_comparison.jpg
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July 28th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I heard about the Volt before I saw the show car version. I was hooked by “40 miles all electric,” and the rest was only investigating whether or not they were kidding.
You enthusiasts would have had a time rolling down those crooked windows …
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July 28th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
lol….
Getting errors on the Voltage site…
Database Error: Unable to connect to the database:Could not connect to MySQL
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July 28th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
At this point, I’d go for domestic production over fuel economy. But I find it hard to believe she couldn’t find a domestic option. What abotu the Ford Escape hybrid?
Environmentally speaking–we’d be better off if she’d kept driving her old minivan. The emissions involved in creating the car more than offset the fuel efficiency advantages. WHich is why I think the whole bill is a really bad idea.
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July 28th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Yeah. Early on there were problems viewing videos as well. The site does seem as if it were a little “rushed to market.” Let’s hope the Volt doesn’t seem the same way!!
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July 28th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
jdsv says: “I suspect, as I’m sure we all do, that the real ranges for 30-55-70 mph will be something like 45-40-38 miles.”
——————————–
Sounds about right, except that its rare to drive 30 mph for very long without turning, braking, stopping, etc, so that’s why city AER is 40.
As for the air conditioner, it shouldn’t be too hard to calculate. We did this a while ago using a room air conditioner, and IIRC it was about 15% less.
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July 28th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Have been busy writing today but I looked into the looking glass and saw the troll, and well, other remarks about the Volt in kind of the same venue. I think there is a well seated hidden background angst about the design as it stands now, post prototype. Even Lyle has offered a glimmer of thought on the posting of whether electrics should have a distinct shape or not.
Such as it is, we have what we have. The nose, egad man but the 19th century steam train cattle/buffalo catcher is surely going to catch all sorts of other things.
The Lads are smart enough to avoid being snagged. Aren’t you boys? Well, Zeus is at least.
Regards!——-Higgins & Co.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
The Bob Boniface Q&A session has just concluded. GREAT QUESTIONS Statik, Tagamet, and others!! Too bad he didn’t give more definitive answers to a lot of the questions
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
For example, this 10,000 BTU room air conditioner:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7661595&type=product&id=1134701146824
draws 8-8.9 amps at 115 volts, which is right around 1kW.
If you drive 70 mph, it would take you about 34 minutes to use up your 40 miles, which corresponds to around 0.5kWh for the air conditioner, leaving 7.5kWh for driving, which should get you around 37.5 miles AER.
If you drive more slowly on side streets, it may take you an hour to travel your 40 miles AER, so that would be around 1kWh for the air conditioner, leaving 7kWh for driving, which should get you around 35 miles AER.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
The chat is over.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
It is not clear that coasting to a stop when you have regenerative breaking is the most energy efficient thing to do. All of the do’s and don’ts of efficient driving will have to be rethought. Many things will stay the same but some will probably be different.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
There are “mountains still to climb” in the science of car painting. How about dark colors which reflect light in the infra-red (to reduce cooling load)? How about an exterior coating system which acts like a photovoltaic cell (generating electricity from sunlight) even as it protects the car? How about photochromic paint that changes color? These last two stretch the definition of paint.
Neither here nor there for this thread, perhaps; except to note that there is much more to the future of auto paint than matching some lost ideal for quality, or the lowering of costs for the manufacturer.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
We agree, then, that high quality and heavy are not synonymous, indeed can even be opposites. Yay! There is hope for efficient AND high performance vehicles on the planet yet.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I agree that some of the questions were sort of glazed over. There were quite a few deferred “stay tuned” kind of responses too. To Bob’s defense though, it’s tough to give depth to answers when you’re given such a finite window of time for a webchat.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Anything to do with Delphi is a big deal for GM. But I don’t know the implications of this particular deal.
It is good for future firms that want to go through bankrupty though. And, that’s just as important if not more so than than the immediate implications for GM.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
I felt like I struck a nerve with “When will someone outside GM get to experience charge sustaining mode” (g). Answer: What’s all the fuss? I drove it and it’s fine.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Lyle,
You have done it once more. Great chat session with Bob. I saw some great questions and Bob did some fancy foot work. Some he just wasn’t allowed to answer yet. Don’t you know he goes home and gets in the bathroom all by himself and talks about all the things he can’t tell anyone. Must be hard to keep from blabbing it all out.
Anyway. Great job, Lyle. I put in a good word for you to get one of the test vehicles for a few months. Of course, I added myself to the request and told Bob to not include Statik. I sure wish he could have answered more questions. How many questions were asked and how many did he answer?
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
ok..how bout more up beat “jingle bells”
reduce our oil
from foriegn soil
go and buy a volt
hear the sheik
give a shreik
we’ll give em quite a jolt
‘lectric drive
aint no jive
glory say amen
I cant wait
until that date
november twenty ten
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
You know like this full size SUV like seat:
http://www.vrrentals.com/images/2006_big_chair.jpg
or even
http://www.rusticwoodland.com/contents/media/t_rustic%20standard%20chair.jpg
versus this
http://www.dexigner.com/design_news/5042.html
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Tag, that sounds like a errogant bastards response.
“Answer: What’s all the fuss?”
What a jerk. It’s almost enough to assume that the experience is of one “Only a mother can love”.
That’s JMHO
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Bob did a really great job given that his department is specialized in the style and aerodynamics/physics stuff.
Anything we can learn from anyone at GM is a real help for us to understand the extremely high quality vehicle GM is working so hard to make for us.
Thank You Bob!!
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Edit: that answer is paraphrased. It was closer to “I can’t understand all the fuss is about… I drove it and its fine. If anyone has the direct quote, please post it.
got it
[Comment From Tagamet ]
When will someone outside of GM experience charge sustaining mode?
2:57
Bob Boniface: I have driven the mule in charge sustaining mode and, frankly, I don’t know what all the fuss is about. It was remarkably smooth and quiet with a nearly seamless transition. I think the team wants it to be perfect before letting others drive it. So, as far as outsiders driving it is concerned – stay tuned.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
I didn’t bother trying to join the webcast. I think it sucks that they have to pick and choose the Q’s they want to answer. They do that on their Voltage site. Pisses me off…..
Yeah, I’m a selfish jerk.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
I have never noticed that. I will take a look at my 3 vehicles and see what they say. My two Honda vehicles (Odyessey & Accord) are on the driver side while the Nissan Frontier Crew-cab is on the passenger side. I do wish they were all on the same side. Would not really matter to me which side. Just chose one and go with it. I can remember when most of the GM cars had the gas filler under the rear license plate. Wasn’t a bad location except in a rear end collision.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
2:03 [Comment From David]—Not me, by the way.
Hi Bob, Can you give us an approximate number of how many mpg the volt will achieve after the battery runs out?
2:04 Bob Boniface: When battery is depleted you should expect several hundred more miles running on engine generator.
———————————–
“several hundred more miles”
WOW!!! Several to most people more than three and close to 7, but I guess the strict definition is more than two.
But what if the tank is 8 gallon capacity and we get an additional 500 miles…62.5 mpg!!! Too optimistic? Ya, I know.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
I asked Bob that question about the front air dam being too low. He said it is the same height as the Corvette and should pose no problem if hit. Well, somehow that doesn’t really make me feel better.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Right on, Muddy!
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
I suspect the front grille is going to be a “sticking point” for bugs. If you know what I mean. Going to be like a mobile bug zapper. They just won’t fall off onto the road surface. They will stick there until you high pressure wash them off.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Bruce,
With the Volt, the design is just a part of the main issue. Sure it would be great if GM had designed the Volt to look like a Fisker Karma, but they did not. Design in this case is somewhat secondary to the primary purpose of the Volt. You will be able to drive 40 miles before having to use any gasoline. If your commute is less than 40 miles round trip and you re-charge each night, you may use very little gasoline during most of the year. So, driving as many miles electrically is the primary purpose of the Volt. If it looks like a 94 Dodge Stratus and does 40 MPC, great.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Maybe Tiger Woods and others will find some work some other place. GM can save a lot of money by staying away from high paid spokespersons. Just get some “everyday” people to do spots. They would probably be more believable. And save a ton of money.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Statik, once again, goes under the bus (g). I probably joined him with that last question, but to give BB credit, he DID choose to answer it.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
I hope they have a real “fire engine” red. Most of GM’s red colors look to blah. Ford and Chrysler have some good colors. Surely GM can do as good.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Probably for the best, don’t you think. One less company the government will totally control. Might get some better management in the bargain. Let’s hope so.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I think he can understand what the fuss is.
IMO, most of the people who post their opinions here seem to be pretty knowledgeable and the transition from Battery to ICE seems to be an (the most!) important aspect of this Voltec platform.
I’m not really a conspiracy theorist, so I think that they do have some issues to work through, but I believe that they will make it nearly perfect.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
I can never remember which sides my gas fillers are on and only one car has “Fuel door (arrow)” printed clearly on the dash. However, I found I can easily remember what the back end of my cars look like and the filler is always on the opposite side from the exhaust. For my one car with twin exhausts, the center pipe underneath the car is offset to one side and sure enough the filler is on the opposite side of that.
What might be kind of scary is that I can remember what the underside of my car looks like better than I can remember which side the gas filler is on. I try not to dwell on that.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
AWD is good!
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
We all knew he could not answer some questions that GM doesn’t want out just yet. But that should not keep us from trying and we did try, I am sure. I know I asked a couple I felt sure he could not answer without breaking confidences. But all in all, it was a good chat session. Looking forward to the next one.
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Funny! When I rode motorcycles there was some comment made about bugs and my teeth. Yes the Volt will have an interesting, ah, look, once encountering massive numbers of bugs not to mention cows. Oops, I mentioned cows. Well anything that encounters a cow mass is going to look, “different” as in destroyed.
Cheers!—-Higgins
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July 28th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
That IS interesting. Don’t know what it means, either, though.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
I agree. I have no problem with questions going unanswered. Besides, we wouldn’t want to have the Honeymoon night before the wedding! (ok, ok, some would, but I’ll keep looking forward to some surprises).
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
I haven’t posted here before but felt a need to clarify one of my comments from the chat. When I said that I did not understand what all the fuss was about, I was referring to the internal fuss. Of course I understand that this is a crirical part of the EREV experience and people are eager to understand this part of the puzzle. The point was that the transition is so good that I do not know why we do not allow people to experience it. Apologies for the confusion.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
He seems to be referring to the GM team’s fussing about not letting people drive in charge sustaining mode, not why outside people are wondering about it. Remember, his world is surrounded by GM folks and our world is surrounded by eager potential consumers.
The more I read it the more I’m pretty sure he was referring to wondering why the GM folks fussing about not letting people drive it.
So, I think the closest translation would be “Seems fine to me, I’d just let people drive it with the engine on. But the decision is not up to me so you will just have to wait until somebody says it’s OK”
But that’s just my interpretation, of course.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Bob, Thanks for the clarification.
Much appreciated.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Capt Jack,
Sorry if you don’t like the format. But if you have any questions you would like answered just ask them here on this site. I am sure someone will give you an answer. Might not be a good one or one you could “take to the bank”, but it would be an answer. I’m just kidding. I know how you feel.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
I asked a similar question, which didn’t get posted.
Overall considering he’s the big cheese I guess his answers were OK, overly politically correct, but ok.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Bob did as good a job as he was allowed to do. Answering some of questions would get him in hot water with the boss.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
I think of you as a straight shooter my friend!
No BS… you say it the way you see it!
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
That’s certainly a plausible interpretation. Although I felt a bit smacked down, he may well have been referring to their team, as opposed to our team.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Uncontested.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Actually it is quite clear. Most batteries only capture about 70% of the energy that is sent their way, and the remaining 30% turns in to heat. Special batteries may be better, but there’s no way (thermodynamically speaking) that they can be 100%.
I also drive like Old Man. Think ahead, drive gently, don’t get race to stoplights. It’s also great for avoiding accidents, especially the thinking ahead parts. It’s also a great way to keep passengers from loosing their lunch. I don’t get as much of an advantage out of the Prius’s drivetrain as someone who drives more aggressively, but my overall energy usage is lower. If you reduce the need for the HSD’s hybrid features in the first place, you win, even if you have it on-board.
Even though I was once 18, I am a little confused by people who want to race to a stoplight only to slam on the breaks and sit still as I glide through just when the light turns green. Being able to time a traffic light is both more efficient AND faster — the only downside is that it requires practice and knowing the peculiarities of your town.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Wouldn’t it be great if GM could post all the questions on the Volt-age site and answer them all as best as they can within what GM would allow? Doesn’t seem like too big of a job, but who at GM would have the time to go through all of the questions and formulate a “GM allowed” answer?
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Thank you.
Can you clarify one more…the mpg in Charge Sustaining Mode?
Just kidding!
I completely understand why that information can’t be divulged at this time.
Thank You (and GM) for your time.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Muddy,
Your have CJS pegged pretty good.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
What is the MPG in generator mode?
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
He did answer my question about the colors and design but he didn’t answer my question if there is going to be a Transformer’s edition (eh, I had to ask…
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
What do you want it to be? Not trying to be funny. If you ask that question you should have an acceptable number in mind. As to what number I would accept, anything over 30 would be acceptable because I don’t plan on using much fuel. Any MPG over 40 or 50 would be icing on the cake.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Absolutely.
I was on a team that built a Burt Rutan Long EZ aircraft.
It was VERY light and very strong it was well designed and our team (class actually) did a darn good job building it.
so yes I know from experience that light, strong and quality are not exclusive.
————————————————————-
MY SUV is a Land Rover Discovery, does that count as a large SUV?
I think of it as more midsize. The seats are excellent!
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
I want it to be 83.3 mpg.
Too greedy?
What about you?
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
I agree! Those are all things that I value.
However, I think that Bob Boniface could be missing something. A lot of the people who aren’t looking to make an emotional purchase are the people who buy Japanese Transportation Appliances and keep them for decades. (Not all Japanese cars are Transportation Appliances, but a lot of popular ones are.) Any car that I buy must be win on a buy-the-numbers comparison with the transportation appliance that we currently own, in order to justify the purchase to both the wife and also the financial planner.
I think Bob Boniface is absolutely right about the cars that GM sells, but it’s possible that by focusing on the emotional aspects, they might be missing a significant part of the market — and the same part of the market that they lost in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Or maybe his job is to focus on the emotional aspects, and other parts of the team are focusing on the numbers.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
And apologies from the Questioner for misunderstanding the reply.
Many thanks for all you do toward getting the Volt’s wheels on the road!!
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
David,
I don’t think any MPG would be “too greedy”. The more the better in my thinking. I would like to beat the Prius, the Insight and any other vehicle on the planet in MPG in generator mode. If that answers your question. And it was a good, valid question. Thanks.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Capt Jack,
Bet you didn’t expect an answer from BB, did you? Hey, I thought he had to head out to another meeting! But he took time to give you a shout out. Mighty good of him. He knows we got to keep our Captain happy. OK?
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Make my day! and let me feel it and drive it. It would probably be like Christmas to me also. It is good that GM is on track however, they need to shoot directly at the target and keep on track. The Volt team has been sounding a little flaky at times.
We need to see something on the road!
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
lol….
The squeaky wheel gets the grease I guess….
Hey Bob, if you’re ever in Northern CA, you & me, Lunch @ H( . y . )TERS, I buy!!
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Bob Boniface’s Volt is going to be black, how can the lead designer be wrong? lol
“Bob Boniface: We will have a full range of colors but you can be certain that the original concept Volt green will be available. I will order mine in black… “
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Heh, that sounds about right!
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Yep, just have to keep him stocked with Kaluha and hooters wings and he’s right as rain!
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
I want a button thats labled “BatOuttaHell”. That’s how my wife drives. It should get say 20AER….lol
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Thanks Bob!
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
He definitely issued you the ‘pimp hand,’ heeh. He is a lot more polished Jon Lauckner with the delivery…skipping over the parts he doesn’t want to answer.
Probably good for him…not so much for us on the outside.
I give Lauckner a ‘A’ for his webchat, maybe a C- for Bob.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Guess you win THAT particular argument statik!
(I’m still getting the blue silver for my prairie dust.)
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
I quite like the looks of the Prius. And the more I drive it, the more the shape means “efficient, reliable, and useful” to me.
When I first started driving the Prius, the shape meant “my other car is an Star Trek Shuttlecraft”. That really works for me, though, since I’m a geek to me core.
I have keep correcting you “prissy” people. You’re missing the point about the Prius and, until you figure it out, you won’t be able to best the Prius — or even understand what you’re seeing on the road. There are currently 4 Prii in my extended family, and they’re all owned by practical people who value both efficiency and utility — the hard-core environmentalists ride bicycles.
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July 28th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Actually thinking about it, an AWD Volt could be pure rear drive at the flip of a switch (ok, beep on the touchpad)
A Volt drift car…. ooooo