Jul 25
Nissan May Unveil Three Production EVs Including an SUV Next Week and Wireless Charging Capability
Nissan has made it clear they intend to enter the electric car market aggressively. They have been working on lithium ion batteries for years since first showing the Altra concept 17 yeas ago, and have developed a unique large format laminate battery in a partnership with NEC.
For over a year the Japanese automaker has given journalists drives in their electric mule which has a production intent powertrain but borrows the sheetmetal of the second generation Cube.
Nissan has reported its plans to unveil an all new global pure electric car based on this platform in Japan on August 2nd. The car will get 100 miles of range and the company expects to produce 50,000 units globally in the first year. It will be available for sale in certain US markets by the end of 2010 for reportedly a lower monthly cost of ownership than a comparable gas car. Nissan has also been awarded $1.6 billion in loans to build-out a plant for this car in Smyrna Tennessee.
The car will be a compact or C-class hatchback sedan with a distinct electric appearance. It will use a 24 kwh battery pack mated to an 80 kw front mounted motor, and have a top speed of about 90 MPH.
Nissan has not officially announced the name of the car but a report in the Guardian calls it the “Nissan ZEV” for zero emissions vehilce. That report also suggest the car will have a more traditional look than jellybean EVs like the i-MiEV. Another claim being made about the car is that it will be capable of wireless charging.
Nissan has reportedly developed a wireless charging system that uses technology similar to that found in electric toothbrushes, called inductive charging. Current flows at a distance from a magnetic field generator, allowing the car to be charged wirelessly in a compatible parking bay. The company even has hopes of embedding these devices in roadways one day so the cars could charge on the fly as they drive by.
Nissan has also developed a battery swapping partnership with Better Place for use in Israel, but has no contracts or expectations do so so in the US market.
The latest report out of Japanese magazine claims Nissan will actually unveil a trio of new EVs on August 2nd. Besides the aforementioned sedan, one of the other vehicles will reportedly be an SUV.
It would be a compact SUV a bit smaller than the current Nissan Rogue. The vehicle would be 164 inches in length and capable of traveling more than 100 miles on a charge.
Between these three cars Nissan expects to put 5 million EVs on the worlds roads by 2012.
Big plans indeed.
Source (Best Car Magazine Japan) via (Left Lane News) and (PCW)
This entry was posted on Saturday, July 25th, 2009 at 8:58 am and is filed under BEV, Competitors. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:06 am)If Nissan brings a compact SUV (“crossover”) EV to market I believe it will be a success.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:07 am)I like the wireless charging idea. Maybe a future Volt will incorporate this.
Japan will benefit from this, especially the big cities Like Tokyo. I can see this working there. Crowded, tightly packed city, charging station every few blocks or whatever.
Could work in New York too. But most places in America have a long way to go before all electric cars will be sensible for most people. Those who live in the city will probably like it, but as we all know, range anxiety is a big issue. So the cars usefulness is limited. This would have to be an “extra” car, especially for people who live in the suburbs and commute to work.
The Chevy Volt is the the solution to America’s transportation prblem for the foreseeable future in my view.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:16 am)man its better that nissan make cars in japan and serve their own people. man thats a better idea. BTW the car u see in that image is a concept and it can never be a production concept due to its aerodynamics.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:18 am)Why would a Nissan compact SUV EV succeed? Because Saturn had a lineup last year that most automotive writers considered excellent —it included the handsome Sky roadster, the Motor Trend Car of the Year Aura, the compact fun-to-drive Astra and two SUVs, one of which —the crossover compact Vue— outsold all other vehicles in the lineup combined! I’m convinced this demonstrates that a huge pent-up demand for crossover SUVs exists in this country, and if an affordable, nicely-stytled, Rogue-like CUV is available as an EV it should sell —and sell well!
(Of course, I’d prefer that Nissan would reduce the battery size & make the CUV an E-REV!)
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+3
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:22 am)–Sorry, meant for this to be a reply to #2—
I don’t see the point of wireless charging at the home. It adds greatly to the cost and only saves you the ten seconds of physically plugging in your car. Not a huge benefit. I think it would be helpful for cell phones and other consumer electronics because you are always plugging and unplugging, but a car is plugged in for 8 hours.
I do like the idea of an “EV Lane” on major roads that uses this technology to charge cars as they drive, that would be cool.
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+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:34 am)I can see the benefit of wireless charging, even for the Volt. You pull into your garage, an indicator light comes on, indicating charging is happening. No hassle, all automatic. I think that’s cool.
GM has gone to great lengths with the Volt to make the whole experience similar to driving any normal gas engine car – ie. no lifestyle change is required, except for plugging in when you get home. A wireless charging setup would handle even this.
If this is successful with Nissan, I’ll bet anything future Volt’s will have it.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:35 am)The front end of the car in the photo looks a bit like the PT Cruiser.
Interesting idea on the charge as you go. I don’t see this ever taking off in the US but a good idea. $$$$$ is the big issue.
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+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:36 am)Nice!
The U.S. just kinda wants to get off oil. Japan REEAALLY wants to get off oil. (they’ve never had any, and when they tried to go out and “get sum” , . . . well , it all ended rather badly back in ‘45).
Let’s hope the big 3 feel the heat from these BEV imports and respond in kind very quickly.
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+3
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:36 am)Charging as you drive is the ultimate answer for BEV cars. Turnpikes would get new revenues selling the power.
The submarines at Disneyland use induction power underwater, so it is a workable solution.
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+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:38 am)While I’m near the top of the thread tree, I’ll point out Lyle’s ad near the top right of this page. He is running the NY Marathon, and could use some sponsorship.
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+2
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:46 am)I’m right there with you on this one Nasaman.
When I moved to the US in 2000 I hunted for a US made station wagon, CUV’s weren’t around then. But as I soon found there were no US made station wagons still in production (by US made I mean big 3 and physically made here). My preference now is a CUV, but no plug no sale, and 100 miles EV range would get me to the end of Long Island, but not home.
So an E-REV CUV is about the perfect vehicle for me.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:50 am)(click to show comment)
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:51 am)–
This would have to be an “extra” car, especially for people who live in the suburbs and commute to work.
–
Thats a huge population there. A LOT more than EV sales for years to come …
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:54 am)(click to show comment)
+2
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:54 am)With a range of 100 miles, how long a trip would you plan to be on the safe side ?
Maybe 40 miles one way? After that you start to sweat. Better stick to your plan no extra sight seeing or side trips or “short cuts”.
Might work for enough people to be a success.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:55 am)Of the big auto manufacturers it looks like Nisaan is the one firmly with pure EVs.
Toyota – Hybrids
Honda – ?
Nissan – EV
GM – EREV
Ford – Hybrids/EVs ?
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:56 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:59 am)This is why there needs to be battery manufacturing linked up with domestic auto manufacturers on U.S. soil in a hurrry. I suspect Nissan and Mitsu may very quickly (say, within less than 5 years) have 100+ mi BEV’s for sale at under the $20,000 price point. If the big 3 are caught flat footed in this market place, they could get knocked off their feet once again.
These low priced BEV’s won’t flood the market from “top down” buyers (i.e. well-heeled greenies), . . . it’ll be “bottom up” . This type of car will appeal to the market that has always been interested in an “economy car”.
/Ford’s at least dipping a toe in the water with the electric Focus, .. . Chrysler? . . GM? . . .
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Jul 25th, 2009 (10:00 am)ERev is a short term interim technology. Once true EVs start flooding the roads the EREVs will disappear rather quickly ol’boy.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (10:02 am)Move over GM, there’s a new EV Sheriff in town.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (10:05 am)(click to show comment)
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Jul 25th, 2009 (10:10 am)Adds greatly to cost ? I don’t believe Nissan has released pricing for their wireless charging device. Do you have some insider information ? If not than please STFU.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (10:10 am)It seems Nisson’s in general are a bit “pricey” aren’t they? In any case, more choice is far better than fewer choices. Obviously superior vehicles (*cough*VOLT*cough), will be the most successful.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR
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+2
Jul 25th, 2009 (10:12 am)If you think Nissan is bringin da heat, wait till you see Toyota, Daimler and Volkswagen put some EV heat on the so-called new GM. They ain’t seen nothin yet.
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+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (10:20 am)GM had inductive charging with the EV1. Though you still had to put the paddle in the car it was inductive/wireless charging. Nissan is taking it one step further.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (10:24 am)Wireless charging, also known as inductive charging, involves magnetic fields. Since reasonably fast charging would require a powerful magnetic field, I wonder what the engineers will do about credit cards’ magnetic stripe erasing.
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+3
Jul 25th, 2009 (10:28 am)I can’t help but to wonder where other manufacturers would be with their electric cars if GM didn’t publicly showcase the Volt and talk about its intent to produce it.
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+3
Jul 25th, 2009 (10:36 am)From what I’ve read, Nissan’s electric vehicles will be priced at about the same range as the Volt. I guess the consumer will decide if they want to spend $40,000 for the warm fuzzy feelings of a pure electric car which can only be used as their second car, which will leave them stranded if they try to push the limit of 100 miles, or a Volt (whose gas generator will occasionally turn on) which can be your only car car–and no dealing with dead batteries or desperately searching for electrical outlets.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (10:37 am)Can GM copy it? Or it patent protected?
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+2
Jul 25th, 2009 (10:44 am)Pure electrics will be able to advertise “Use no gas – EVER”. Then again, it hasn’t hurt the current hybrids to burn some gas.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR
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Jul 25th, 2009 (10:46 am)Perhaps the need or interest of Nissan for Better Place battery swap stations (at first possibly testing it in Israel), might portend to indicate what might be needed if the BEV batteries need frequent warranty replacements within all their dealerships.
That might make more sense for Better Place:
as “In-shop”, MASSIVE/ENTIRE BEV FLEET, ACROSS THE BOARD, “warranty- fulfillment” and “safety-campaign-recall” servicing equipment for BEV’s.
It’s getting really interesting and exciting.
“THE BETS ARE ON !!!”
History is happening.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (10:55 am)There is also a longer range version of inductive charging.. using tuned antenna coils and high frequency, more in the range of radio, probably safer for credit cards and what I think Nissan is planning here.. but I can see your concern with the magnetic strips, they can change those to RFID tags also.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:01 am)I think the original Tesla invented it, patents may have expired by now
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4220889.html
This one is 98% efficient before someone jumps in with criticism :
http://www.ecoupled.com/technologyMain.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070607171130.htm
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:07 am)Tesla is the one that lit the fire.. and using common off-the-shelf laptop batteries.. no more of we-need-a-magic-battery to do an electric car bullcrap.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:08 am)Thanks! Is there any way they could use that to do a fast charge safely? (As a layperson, I’m nervous about plugging in a high voltage cable.)
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:09 am)Nissan Wireless technology is totally awesome. Now local governments need to rapidly deploy this Nissan technology nationwide. Mandatory Nissan rapid charging driveways can be a nice little revenue stream for cities and counties as well as a nominal maintenance fee for Nissan.
Thank you Nissan.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:17 am)The federal government needs to mandate Nissan Wireless at every stoplight in the nation. You will automatically get a charge for 30 seconds at every stoplight, it will add up quickly within city limits. Red light time can be adjusted by local governments to obtain suitable charge/tax amounts. Of course utility charges can be automatically billed to EV owner. Green taxing these new EVs can be delayed for the time being IMO.
This is a great idea and I plan to propose at the National Mayors and Governor’s meetings this fall.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:18 am)“This is why there needs to be battery manufacturing linked up with domestic auto manufacturers on U.S. soil in a hurrry.”
The old 100 year old model was that the auto manufacturer made everything that went in his car, often in the same factory.. and that was the only way to be competitive. That may change with electric vehicles, allowing much lower cost auto factories in 3rd world countries.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:21 am)That is an interesting looking car at the top, but get rid of the creases at the front and smooth everything out.. get rid of the hood, there are no user serviceable parts underneath… no antifreeze, belts, oils and so on to replace. The dealership can unbolt that body panel as needed.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:22 am)EV owners absolutely do NOT want to deal with giant cables to charge their plug-in electric vehicles.
THE PLUG-IN CABLES MUST GO
This is 2009 and we don’t need no more stinking cables. I already have too many recharging cables for all my electronic gadgets. Atl least most cell phones will standardize on a single USB cable but NO CABLE is way more better.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:23 am)Battery life of at least 3 years is pretty reasonable, even with today’s tech.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:25 am)My idea was to have a big red light on the dash telling you reached the half way point, that should prevent most problems.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:28 am)Sure.. the advantage of the wireless method is that you dont even need to remember to plug it in… there are no safety issues with charging modern electric vehicles.
Are you also worried about plugging in your TV?, its about the same danger.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:29 am)Look no further than Palm Touchstone charger. GM needs to get a clue about cordless charging. Its now, it already exists. Word to GM: DROP YOUR VOLT PLUG-IN CABLE !!! Volt owners everywhere will thank you later.
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+4
Jul 25th, 2009 (11:33 am)Actually mitsu was out a couple days ago talking about a larger pack option for 2012ish…but I’m on a annoying iPhone and I’m not hunting down the link (sadly posting from the rogers center today, got tricked into a blue jays game…should be a real snoozefest)
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+2
Jul 25th, 2009 (11:39 am)I hate, hate nissans involvement with PBP, but you have to respect their battery capacity (over 180,000 packs per year by 2011).
I confess I am a little excited to see what they will announce, because unlike other ever wannabes, you can bet what they show will be reality, and more importantly than that, built in enough quantity to actually get to you if you want one.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:41 am)That should read, “other ever wannabe” lol
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:48 am)why this aversion to PBP?
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:52 am)Gimme an electric “Z”. Very cool.
I had a 260-Z way back when… That was a small car.
Bring that back as a BEV!
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+2
Jul 25th, 2009 (12:08 pm)Have any of you given any thought to the cost of digging up the highways and installing inductive charging?
Then, lets add in all the extra electricity needed to make it work.
Where does all this money come from??? CA is using IOU’s, most other states are heading into huge deficits, and lets not even talk about what the feds are doing….
This was all in the Popular Mechanics magazines back in the sixties, but then so was the jetpack I was supposed to be flylng around in by now and my cool vacations on the giant space wheel!!!!
Before we go too pie in the sky, lets just get some of these cars on the road.
JMHO
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Jul 25th, 2009 (12:16 pm)Also bear in mind that a high-voltage plug-in connection is likely to have its power interrupted until the charging equipment and vehicle do some handshaking to ensure a good connection.
In other words, no juice until the connection is safely made. The engineers know this sort of thing has to be pretty much foolproof to keep people from frying themselves.
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+2
Jul 25th, 2009 (12:17 pm)Personally, I think the govt has enough trouble maintaining the roads as it is. Mandating an extra cost, be it at stop lights, or driveways is (again IMHO) over the line.
Once the early adopters (read: us) establish a market, some enterprising company will provide the option.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR
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+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (12:20 pm)EVENTUALLY, you’re right. But FIRST LET’S JUST GET THE VOLT’S WHEELS ON THE ROAD!!” (Catchy phrase).
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR
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+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (12:23 pm)The thing about this that concerns me is how you might have to rip up roads to install the coils. Of course, maybe the coils could be installed by boring underneath, that’d save the hassle of road construction and the cost of ripping up perfectly good roads.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (12:23 pm)So many people are talking about Nissan eliminating cables, but we don’t even know what they have developed. You’re probably still going to need a “giant cable” going to the charging station under your car or wherever it is.
It would be neat if you could just pull into your driveway normally and not have to worry about plugging in or positioning this induction thing, but let’s see what they have before we get too excited.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (12:28 pm)Eight miles to work , eight miles home five days a week , maybe ten miles running around on Saturday , park it over the charger on Sat night , ready to go for another week on Monday morning .
Am I missing something here , what is all the foolish talk about range anxiety . Sounds much more like personal insecurity to me from people who can’t think for themselves .
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+3
Jul 25th, 2009 (12:35 pm)Yep, radio frequencies might have longer range, and as a side-benefit, at the power densities required, you could keep your lunch warm as you drive it back to the office — much like a cellular network version of a microwave oven! Of course, there is the nasty side-effect of slow-cooking the driver. Especially long distance commuters might suffer from a new disease called “crock-pot syndrome,” in which they, and everything they attempt, turns out half-baked. We will then get government grants to study this new disease, eventually developing a tinfoil “commuting outfit” to be worn on the energized roads. And so on….
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Jul 25th, 2009 (12:38 pm)My next car will be a Nissan. I will be looking at their EV selection as a strong possibility. However I cannot consider a vehicle from a failed corporation, its just too risky.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (12:41 pm)Me drove the wheels off my 240Z. It was an awesome car. Sweet memories. It started my love affair with Nissan that continues to this day.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (12:44 pm)The new Nissan Altima is a truly great American car. More American than Chevy Volt anyway.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (1:38 pm)I’m not gonna hold my breath for this one. Nissan hasn’t even made the hybrid Altima available nationally so there’s little reason to expect a national roll-out of an EV anytime soon.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (2:35 pm)Not if you have to cough up $6,000 for a new one every three years if ( for some “pennywise and ton foolish” reason), the Nissan buyer did not get a comparable warranty of ten years and 150 THOUSAND miles for the battery. Especially since the implied price would be comparable to Volt. How foolish would that be for just a three year battery warranty if that was the final deal.
Nissan will make obscene profits where the E-REV Genset is not part of the deal, and, they are counting on a “technically indifferent and undereducated” American consumer for them to make windfall profits if they sell it at $40,000 and do not have a battery warranty as does GM’s. (That’s were I help you to “hold their toes to the fire”.)
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+2
Jul 25th, 2009 (2:53 pm)Lucy,
Lets say you have a kitty. It is Winter. Your kitty gets out in the garage.
There is this inductive charger.
It is warm.
Kitty likes warm.
Inductive charger magnetism will harm your kitty and mine if it chooses to fall asleep at the inductive charger.
Inductive chargers are not a good idea.
A cable sprung down from the ceiling is an excellent idea.
So,
NO
inductive charger in my garage.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (2:55 pm)Waiting for an EV or EREV CUV with all wheel drive. Would rather it be a GM, but if not available Nissan will be just fine.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (2:55 pm)Perhaps the equipment could be on the side of the road, not below ground.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (2:58 pm)of course they make money of the power they sell, so that may motivate them to maintain the equipment.
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+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (3:01 pm)The cost of the economy grinding to halt when gas hits $8 a gallon will more than pay for the retrofit.. and think of all the work programs the Feds could setup building up the roads for wireless power.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:07 pm)Thanks Lyle for the heads up. I think I will wait till August 2 before I start begging for actual information, battery specs, such as cost, life, and weight. I sort of liked the picture too, reminds me of an updated Studebaker. But then many nifty cars remind me of a 1953 Studebaker.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:21 pm)Here’s a company which seems well down the road. i’m sure they have patents. This is a a BBC article and an interview about the technology. The interesting bit is that they’re targeting cell phones and EVs — the two ends of the power spectrum:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8165928.stm
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+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (3:24 pm)Tesla took the concept directly from AC Propulsion.
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+2
Jul 25th, 2009 (3:33 pm)BEVs are going to be a tough sell. They would work for people/families with more than one car, assuming the other vehicle has an unlimited range. But if you only have one car or if you need to go distances with more than one car it’s going to be an issue.
This point came home to me when thinking about getting a BEV and then, when the Volt became available, passing on the BEV to a family member. The problem is that she only has one car, probably wouldn’t want to maintain two, and, on weekends, likes to go hiking some distance from where she lives. Absent charging in the middle of nowhere a BEV just wouldn’t work.
But for some people they should be fine. It will be interesting to have Lyle report as he has even more experience with range limitations.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:36 pm)I don’t see why you’d think Nissan would be making a killing. It will cost more to add 8 kWh to the battery pack than to add an engine.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:37 pm)Agree with your assessment of PBP and with the fact that the Nissan vehicles will be for real.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:37 pm)Folks, this talk about coils installed in the roadway is just silly. It’s impossible to capture inductive charge in a moving vehicle. Just plug it in, baby.
LJGTVWOTR….
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:39 pm)Yeah, for the foreseeable future (2 or 3 days?) the BEV’s will make neat 2nd vehicles (neat if you can afford them AND a Volt)(g). One of the things on my “bucket list” is to buy a new car. Never had one of those, but hopefully the Volt will cross off two things from my list!
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!
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+2
Jul 25th, 2009 (3:40 pm)Other than it’s a really really bad idea, nothing at all! You probably want to be more specific, right?
1. It gives a company an effective monoply over both charging and battery design and production. This will stiffle all kinds of things, including innovation. Just seems crazy to work to take a commodity like electricity which has the advantage of coming from diverse sources and funneling it through a bottleneck.
2. Battery swaps are too clumsy and expensive to be practical.
3. It divorces the battery from the car, thereby eliminating all incentives for drivers to properly care for their battery packs (the commons problem).
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:42 pm)Please mark those words: Tesla has lost one major funding source due to the under performance of their car delivered to that rich person. The car has much lower mileage than claimed, when the rich person asked why is that, he was informed that the battery was probably abused or used incorrectly, the rich diaperhead got pissed and pulled out his fund!
You don’t have to believe what I said here, but please save this for later references. I can 100% guarantee that Tesla will be a failure. Also, anyone heard any latest development of the silicon nanowire battery, 10 times better performance or is that just a nonsense? There are no Japanese companies interested in this technology, Hmmm, maybe they are not as smart as Stanford.
I feel the approach by the Japanese respects the science&technology than the Americans, not sure if Nissan EV can be commercially successful (sold on a mass scale before 2015) or just niche products.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:49 pm)Why couldn’t the concept picture work? It largely resembles a 350z or 370z.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:51 pm)Jonathan, you’re a jealous ass clown. Grow up.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:53 pm)One small fact that could make a difference in sales is how far back the front seat will travel. I went to buy a Ford Escape Hybrid. Nice car – enough head room but the seat needs to go back about 2 inches more to be comfortable. I found this problem in several mid size cars. I understand that they want to be able to seat 4 people however, most of us either drive alone or with one other person. This small detail made a big difference in my desire not to purchase. The dealer tells me this has been a continued complaint.
Lyle – take note – make the front seat go back far enough for comfort or at least sell an optional extender the dealer can bolt on for this purpose – shouldn’t cost much and could make or break a sale.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:55 pm)Perhaps they can wait to install the induction cables for when the road needs replacement. There are several patches of roads and freeways up here in Everett, WA area that are being redone right now.
But really, in all fairness to the technology, the United States is much too large of an area to economically cover.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:55 pm)By high voltage do you mean 220V (instead of 110V that we normally use) ? Half the world uses 220V ….
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Jul 25th, 2009 (3:55 pm)Regarding the story behind Tesla, it is from reliable sources. Also another thing to remember, pure EV has range anxiety, so likely the customer will top the battery to “full charge” whenever possible, and this is no good for battery service life. Same reason why laptop computer battery performance degraded quickly.
Kudos to my fellow Japanese!
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:02 pm)—
From what I’ve read, Nissan’s electric vehicles will be priced at
about the same range as the Volt.
—
Where did you read that ? See what Lyle says above …
–
It will be available for sale in certain US markets by the end of 2010 for reportedly a lower monthly cost of ownership than a comparable gas car.
—
This is what Nissan has consistently said. I interprit this to mean – Nissan EV will be priced at a slight premium to gas car, with the premium being equal the savings while operating the car. So an EV that is equivalent to 20K gas car would be about 25K (may be after all the incentives).
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+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (4:02 pm)Please don’t propose anything that adds more taxes.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:03 pm)There you go! Finally someone that I feel truly understands planning.
I used to drive 30mi a day (to and from work), and with a 100mi charge……. what would I be afraid of? I have a “gas” station at home that’ll fill me up is how I would look at the “problem”.
Regarding commuting, isn’t it true that like 95% of the work force of USA don’t travel further than 100mi a day? That sounds reasonable until you hear all the people here bitching and complaining about needing more MPC. lol.
Of course, this kind of EV isn’t gonna get you from Seattle to take a trip up to Vancouver and back, but it’ll definitely play a role in a couple years as an excellent commuter car after the price drops a bit.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:04 pm)Lyle said The car will be a compact or C-class hatchback sedan with a distinct electric appearance.
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There’s an interesting competition shaping up here. GM’s strategy is to make the Volt look and perform very much like any other car, more or less hiding the EREV aspect. In contrast Nissan is building a car that says “I AM ELECTRIC” both in the way it works, and especially boldly in its appearance. We will see what works!
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:05 pm)By the time you smooth everything out it will look like everything else. I would buy it just like it is – looks like a new kind of roadster instead of a pregnant guppie.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:07 pm)I know. I’m so disappointed that stuff still hasn’t shown up. Dang gravity, anyway!
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:10 pm)Nissan says they will first see the car in some chosen metros (mostly in the west) – probably where cities are committing to adding charging stations – Seattle, Portland, SFO etc.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:17 pm)So those who do road construction, you need to apply to your nearest Electrical Apprenticeship program, so you can get your Journeyman licesne to work on the roads…..
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:18 pm)What don said, LOL. Thanks.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:19 pm)Maybe Honda has the answer …
A Honda generator in the trunk?
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:26 pm)BEVs will only kill EREVs as long as people are comfortable with their vehicle only having the range of about 3 gallons of gas when full (and the battery is brand new), and they are willing to deal with the hassle of only being able to fill up at home, they won’t be able to go farther than 40-45 miles from home, and still have enough to get back. Also, we will see how long these batteries last when they don’t have an ICE to keep their temperature within optimal conditions.
Putting a battery in an SUV big enough to carry it 100 miles could easily cost about $15,000 to replace. We’ll see how much the cost of ownership is. I don’t think pure electric SUVs have much of a market because they wouldn’t be able to do much of anything as far as camping, or backpacking off roading (unless you live with a couple of miles of your favorite off roading place). You would be very limited. Your SUV EV would maybe be good for some extra leg room in the back seat and that’s about it. Until an EEStor type device comes out, EREV SUVs will definitely beat out BEV SUVs IMO. An EREV SUV does have benefits over a normal SUV, for instance the ability to just plug in your trailer/RV into the battery and use the 25+ kWH for electricity and having the ICE automatically kick in as a generator.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:31 pm)PBP is an answer to the reality of “slow” battery pack charging…however, numerous other issues are introduced like the ones already mentioned. EREV is another answer…which is another set of issues. However, most of these issues do not require any new infrastructure (gas stations exist already…PBP stations do not exist) and limit innovation to much lesser degree. Also with the level of investment in automotive electrical storage devices only increasing, PBP does sound like a wise investment for a “large” 4 wheel passenger vehicle. Golf carts might be ok…but I would just buy 2 battery packs myself.
I also agree on the ownership issue of battery packs. I do not even like the idea of swapping propane containers for a BBQ grill. Think about swapping battery packs while on a road trip…and then you have problems with it. Arghhh… Also, the idea of owning a large, costly vehicle for local commutes only is not a wise investment.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:31 pm)Yeah, they got the idea from AC propulsion’s Tzero but AC propulsion had no intention of commercializing it. It was Tesla that got it into the public eye by building the Roadster (which inspired an explosion of plug-ins, since as Herm says, there’s really no more excuses left). Now AC propulsion is commercializing the idea with the MINI-E, but that’s only after Tesla paved the way.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:33 pm)Thanks for the post, Lyle, about who seems to be the leader in electric vehicles–Nissan. $1.6 billion US loan, $12 billion capital plan, 5 MILLION in expected sales by 2012… WOW! Makes a lot of auto co.’s electric car plans look like a hobby.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:40 pm)Uh, what does this have to do with Nissan? Nissan isn’t even targeting the same market from the sound of things. If anything, a premium sedan like the Fisker Karma (vs Tesla’s upcoming Model S) and a sports car like the Dodge Circuit (vs the Roadster) is more of a threat to Tesla’s market. And why would one customer guarantee the failure of the whole company? I know Tesla made plenty of bad moves in it’s history, but I have heard from plenty of satisfied customers too. And Tesla’s now has funding from the DOE and Daimler, and the Model S in case the Roadster market dries up. I think Tesla’s story is just beginning.
And about battery service life, you do realize the default charging mode on the Tesla doesn’t charge the battery fully. It only utilizes from about 90-10% SOC maybe even a narrower range. With a bigger battery you can afford to charge in a narrower range since you have enough extra to make a trip; with a smaller battery you might not be able to make the whole trip without charging in a wider range. And even with a smaller battery you can always use software to control how far to charge the battery. Another reason why this is different from a laptop is in a car you can have temperature control of the battery to extend it’s cycle life, while in a laptop you can’t.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:42 pm)The ten times storage for the nanowire battery was always nonsense. It only reduced the weight of part of the battery by eight to ten times, so the overall improvement was at best a factor of several. That would still be great, if they can produce a practical battery.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:53 pm)“full charge” means whatever higher SOC specified by the manufacturer as the upper limit, in reality it could be 85% of the full capability (around 4.05V for regular battery), but still the SOC is too high, battery’s comfortable zone is probably 50-60%.
Anyway, the Tesla story is true. It is also known that their battery pack is not robust (I mean prone to problems). It is a stupid company with stupid ideas by the founder and CEO!
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:55 pm)On the wireless charging…not a new tech…yet not many portable electrical devices are using it.
For a vehicle, the biggest advantage is “passive refueling” if you park at a charger. How many wireless chargers would be needed at your house? The idea of inducting charging in the roadways sounds too expensive to me. Also I would question the side effects of it.
In other words…I’m skepitcal unless the tech improves in many areas. And I would think that a physical connection will always be a cheaper, faster and simplier tech for refuelling…without some type of breakthrough discovery.
I’m glad to see battery packs (i.e. electrical storage devices) becoming more of an essential part of the powertrain for automobiles. Research and development in this area should grow.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (4:57 pm)At best, the battery energy density can be improved by 20-30%, which is quite good, but the battery life will be an issue. Also the process is tedious and expensive, for a market that is price-sensitive, that is DOA!
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Jul 25th, 2009 (5:05 pm)Speaking of Japanese cars…
This just in: Porche has nabbed the top spot in JD powers Owner Satisfaction Survey.
Jaguar was second.
Cadillac was third.
Audi forth.
BMW fifth.
Congratulation to Cadillac – the only domestic brand in the top five.
Kudos to the Germans for having three in the top five.
“Oh, what a feeling…”
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Jul 25th, 2009 (5:06 pm)Speaking of Japanese cars…
This just in: Porche has nabbed the top spot in JD powers Owner Satisfaction Survey.
Jaguar was second.
Cadillac was third.
Audi forth.
BMW fifth.
Congratulation to Cadillac – the only domestic brand in the top five.
Kudos to the Germans for having three in the top five.
“Oh, what a feeling…”
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Jul 25th, 2009 (5:18 pm)Right! That’s what you call E-rev
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Jul 25th, 2009 (5:24 pm)Yea if you only have 8 miles to do. Most people do not just have 8 miles.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (5:33 pm)Are we suddenly under estimating the importance of range anxiety? BEV-s are still not the short term future. EREV is.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (5:34 pm)Also what about efficiency? Inductive charging isn’t the most efficient and isn’t that going against the goal?
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Jul 25th, 2009 (5:34 pm)This is the best strategy!
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Jul 25th, 2009 (5:44 pm)How will they sell 5 million electric vehicles by 2012 if they just let it be sold in limited area’s ? Matter of fact, how will they sell 5 million BEV’s by 2012 anyway ? They would have to convert 1/3 of their production by 2010 to make that number !
Nissan is just giving bad info and a lot of people believe it just because they are a Japanese company.
BTW, I’m I the only person in the world that every had a Lemon from Japan ?
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Jul 25th, 2009 (5:49 pm)(click to show comment)
Jul 25th, 2009 (5:53 pm)IN YOUR DREAMS! HA HA!
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Jul 25th, 2009 (6:08 pm)What does “distinct electric appearance” mean?
I hope it doesn’t mean GIANT GREEN DECALS all over the body SCREAMING “EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE” something or other…
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Jul 25th, 2009 (6:29 pm)/CorvetteGuy asks “What does distinct electric appearance” man?”
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Answer: Look at the picture.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (6:37 pm)Within the new system of posts, sub posts, sub sub posts, sub sub sub posts, …., I wish there was a way to find what’s been posted recently, or after some particular time, without having to go through everything again. It’s discouraging. One has the sense that only posts number 1 and 2, with their many sub-level descendants, actually are read now, and there is no way to find out where the ‘action’ is at a particular time.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (6:49 pm)I’ve used 220V in Europe, and I’ve never worried about it beyond needing to buy a converter.
I was talking about a ten minute charge–something analogous to our current gas stations. Again, it wouldn’t have occurred to me to worry about it until I read a couple of articles like this:
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/electriccar-maker-touts-10minute-fillup
http://www.matternetwork.com/2009/3/reality-fast-charging-electric-vehicles.cfm
Are they wrong? Should I not worry about it? I don’t know anything about these things, (or the sites in question), so if you tell me it’s OK, I’ll believe you.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (6:55 pm)The problem is that most of the announced 100 mile range BEVs won’t have a 100 mile range in the real world. Check out Lyle’s experience with the Mini-E. The Tesla Roadster has a real 100 mile range but it has a 53 kWh battery pack. A lot of those 100 mile ranges might be 65 miles or less.
The other issue is that the while it’s true that 95% of people don’t drive more than 100 miles a day on any given day, it’s not true that 95% of people never drive more than 100 miles in a day. It’s the danger of averages. If your head is in the oven and your feet in the refrigerator you may be, on average, at a comfortable temperature, but you’re probably quite uncomfortable. Here the danger of averages leads to missing the important point that if most days you drive less than 50 miles that doesn’t mean from time to time you don’t drive more than a 100 miles. Most people want a car for all their days, not most of their days, so the 100 mile range is more limiting than you might think just looking at average driving ranges.
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+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (7:00 pm)Nasaman,
I know you have some sort of irrational love for the Vue, but that was about the most self-serving and misguided use of stats I have seen since I read a DonC post.
Saturn had a HORRIBLE line-up. Just because the Vue was the one cousin that had most of her teeth doesn’t mean that she was really a “catch” at the family reunion. The Accord and Camry both pretty much doubled Saturn’s entire 2008 sales of 188K. Not that it matters anyways… what you posted in no way says anything about demand for crossovers.
The Sky is a good car to mention. It was a Lutz low-volume and money losing attempt at a halo car. It wasn’t the “right” car for Saturn, and it really did nothing for Saturn except waste resources. In that way it kind of reminds me of another car…
Here are some of the 2008 sales stats in case you need them:
Camry: 436,617
Accord: 372,789
Altima: 269,668
Impala: 265,840
Malibu: 178,253
Fusion: 147,569
Sonata: 145,568
G6: 140,240
AURA: 59,380
CRV: 197,279
Escape: 156,544
RAV4: 137,020
Santa Fe: 92,421
VUE: 81,676
The Sky tipped in at a Volt-wanna-be ~9,000 copies… or about how many Camrys would have been sold in 5 sales days!
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Jul 25th, 2009 (7:00 pm)The technology would increase the storage by a factor of ten. That is, however, only for the anode. You still have the cathode.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (7:19 pm)There’s distinct, and then there’s ugly.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (7:24 pm)“distinct electric appearance”
I am thinking Golf Cart
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Jul 25th, 2009 (8:04 pm)I don’t understand why every post about a BEV everyone has to knock it.
If you drive exorbitant amounts a day, fair enough. But there are TONS of people who drive far less than 100 miles (or 70 to be on the “safe” side).
There are 5million + people in the greater toronto area. The majority who commute live within a radius capable of driving into the city and back without needing to charge (~100km or less round trip)
While you who in the US seem to live huge amounts of distances away from your jobs (at least that’s how you’re making it sound), the rest of the world does not.
Perhaps you need to rethink your living situation if you have to drive so far every single day.
I understand comments on vacations. Fair enough. But I can rent a car for a week for only $100-200. $200 once a year vs $2000 a year extra in gas.. tough choice.
If anything, BEV’s shouldn’t be a “second” car, but the opposite. Long range trips SHOULD be rare in your driving pattern. If they’re not, again, maybe you should be rethinking where you live.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (8:20 pm)http://www.gm-volt.com is getting to be ridiculous.
At some point, the nitwits and fools posting here will outnumber the Volt fans to such a degree that thinking people will go elsewhere for information on the Volt.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (8:21 pm)Don’t tell that to Shai Agasi, from Better Place..
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Jul 25th, 2009 (8:22 pm)On topic… It will be interesting to learn about the specifications of the Nissan EVs. Will they leapfrog the other EVs or simply produce a “me to” EV with similar or marginally better specs.
How far can an EV SUV (or SUEV) go?
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Jul 25th, 2009 (8:35 pm)Corvette Guy says “There’s distinct, and then there’s ugly.”
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As I said above at #30, that’s why there is an interesting competition to come as to styling. Volt is mainstream, or maybe Volt is bland. Nissan is distinct, or Nissan is ugly. It is hard (for me) to guess how people will react, but I know that styling produces strong reactions.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (8:37 pm)nuclearboy replies “‘distinct electric appearance’ I am thinking Golf Cart”
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Look at the picture. You might like it or maybe not, but it is not a Golf Cart.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (8:49 pm)I get the feeling that there’s more than one company in the race to get my money… and that’s a nice feeling.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (8:54 pm)I don’t see how Nissan BEV’s can succeed without a battery infrastructure (either quick-charge or battery swap).
Why are you so against someone who is trying to introduce mass adoption of EV’s? Why do you admire Nissan but hate BP? They both are companies promoting EV’s and both are trying to make a buck from it.
The cost to put in infrastructure in a country is estimated by Shai Agassi at about 2 mounths of oil. IOW what the US spends on oil in 2-3 months ($66 -$100 Billion in 2008) is what is needed to put in infrastructure to cover the US.
The real cost of gasoline cars are not reflected in the oil price. Add in the cost the Iraq war and the US military to safeguard the Persian Gulf etc. And then add in the cost health care from polluted air. You are ALREADY paying a huge price for the monopoly of oil.
In short, what can be so evil about BP for being a major push in electrification and trying to break the oil monopoly that you “hate” it. And how can you portray BP as a “monopoly”? It has plenty of competitors and sceptics to contended just to get off the ground.
It is folly to wait for the “perfect zero flaw” solution to get off oil. That is why we are in 2009 and still no mass produced EV.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:08 pm)And the Volt will probably only have a 20 or 30 mile range.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:21 pm)Numbers shows GM has to concentrate more on Impalas ( 2010 models and future ) , and they need a Camry and accord competitor.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:22 pm)Don C,
I just don’t think the quality of Nissan overall is anywhere close to its competitors. So, yes, I really think that they are going to use the more or most inexpensive hardware possible for highest profitability.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:26 pm)Not to mention taking your laptop to work only to find the project you spent the whole night working is now random bits of junk on the hard drive.
Ouch…
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Jul 25th, 2009 (9:37 pm)Hooray for us! We will soon be getting a large number of electric vehicles on the roads right here in North America! Congrats to Nissan.
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+3
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:52 pm)That seems unlikely, because the field strength falls off rapidly as distance increases. For this to work efficiently, you need to minimize the distance between the two interacting coils.
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+2
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:52 pm)It all sounds and looks interesting but I am looking for Voltec in other types of cars from GM. …hope I can last the wait.
Like many other people I know, we want efficiency, off oil, etc but also want some styling. We WILL NOT buy a boring jellybean or wedge of cheese. The current volt style is almost a no go (boring, j beans). The prototype was hot! I understand why it was changed but wonder if more styling of the prototype could have been saved.
GM put the volt technology into a convertible, small SUV and some dramatic styling sedans – even at the expense of drag issues. I am hopeful but not holding my breath…
How much would it cost to hack the top off my volt and make it a rag top??
Off topic: Thinking about buying a Merc Mariner hev in the meantime. Anyone have one of those?
Great job Lyle. Many of us out there reading and not commenting much.
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+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (9:53 pm)I totally agree… geez, with all the taxes we now pay and everyone wants to add more.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (10:01 pm)Then why are you here?
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Jul 25th, 2009 (10:04 pm)I completely agree with you! The only argument that I would have is noting that Lyle said he was often driving the car hard, of course draining the battery quicker.
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-1
Jul 25th, 2009 (11:25 pm)+1. These ARE Americans we’re talking about… People for whom pushing a button to make their own coffee is too much to ask.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:40 pm)Seriously not that big a deal. You’re not laying railroad tracks. You’re installing something along the lines of a traffic signal magnetic loop detector:
http://www.ecotrafficsolutions.com.au/attachments/Image/Loop.jpg
http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/Loop_Detector_Example9530.JPG
Also, what Zach said. You’re not gonna electrify the entire United States road network — that would take a hundred years. You’d electrify major trunk routes first (Interstates and major boulevards in cities).
Anyway, I don’t really see this happening but it’s a fun gedanken experiment.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:42 pm)o yeah!..how?
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:43 pm)Tesla Roadster range is 100 miles is BS.
It is 180 miles on the short side for full range. If you want to drive aggressively on hills every day, then you’re looking at 140 miles if you want decent battery life. Real everyday range is 180-200 miles.
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-1
Jul 25th, 2009 (11:50 pm)If an on the road charging tech becomes practical, the last place it should implemented is at stop lights. Today’s batteries offer plenty of range for city driving. The changing will have to be on the highway to fill a need. Theoretically, this could be a phenomenal solution but practical reality will probably prove insurmountable.
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Jul 25th, 2009 (11:52 pm)Nissan Versa sedan “base” is $9,990 MSRP . It’s the cheapest new car on the market. …If MSRP stands for anything
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+1
Jul 25th, 2009 (11:57 pm)here we go again, the picture looks so good, everybody likes it, i remember when the VOLT first came out…i hope it should look the same when you are ready to buy it….gud lak!
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+1
Jul 26th, 2009 (12:04 am)That is really not something that to be hated. Name another solution that the technology is ready TODAY that can affordably eliminate 100% of consumer light duty gasoline use.
Whose to say the battery format has to be proprietary? Does better place have patents that prevent other swapping companies from competing?
I think EREVs are great, but the added costs and inefficiency of carrying the genset components aren’t going away anytime soon.
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Jul 26th, 2009 (12:12 am)We didn’t seem to have a problem building all roads and all of the gas stations to support them, just for the pleasure of exporting about $300/yr for the fuel to use those roads. If there is a practical in the road charging solution, then we cancertainly more afford to install than not. This would also address trucking gasoline consumption. Of course, even if an effictive solution is developed, there would still be a chicken/egg implementation issue.
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Jul 26th, 2009 (12:21 am)I drove the wheels (well, axle) off my Geo Prizm, which started my love affair with Geo that continues to this… er, wait… *shakes fist into the air* Curse you, GM!!!!1!1one!!1!!eleven!!
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Jul 26th, 2009 (12:35 am)Really? Please elaborate. I’m interested in knowing more. I don’t have any knowledge in this area.
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Jul 26th, 2009 (12:53 am)What I meant by 100 mile real world range was that you can be more or less guaranteed to get 100 miles in almost any conditions. You’re defining real world everyday range as what the average person might expect under mild conditions. As an example of how limited this is, we’ll see the impact that cold weather has on range when Lyle reports on driving his Mini-E during the winter. Sure to be most interesting.
So I don’t really have any issue with your 180 mile range if we’re talking an average or median drive cycle rather than a very aggressive cycle in adverse conditions. 200 miles seems quite optimistic, however, since I don’t think most people who buy a Roadster drive it like a Prius (the EPA rates the Roadster as having a 211 mile range during its city and highway cycles — very mild cycles).
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Jul 26th, 2009 (1:01 am)The business model behind PBP rests on proprietary battery packs and captive charging. It’s basically a razor and blades idea, where the battery packs are the razors and charging or swapping out the packs are the blades. Since PBP wants to make money, you can see where this goes.
Note that this is also the idea behind electric utilities giving “incentives” for EVs. If the utility could require you to charge your EV from special chargers they could kick in quite a bit of the upfront costs of the EV and still make a profit. Personally I like this approach better because it’s at least battery neutral.
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Jul 26th, 2009 (1:13 am)“1. Just seems crazy to work to take a commodity like electricity which has the advantage of coming from diverse sources and funneling it through a bottleneck.”
There is no monopoly or restricitions, BP will put chargers in your garage and on the street, other cars besides BP will be able to use the stations to charge their own car
“2. Battery swaps are too clumsy and expensive to be practical.”
It is expected that the BP customer will charge the batteries in their own home most of the time.. on rare ocassions they will take advantage of the quick battery swap option.
“3. It divorces the battery from the car, thereby eliminating all incentives for drivers to properly care for their battery packs (the commons problem).”
The driver can be forced to take care of the battery thru automation, and that is the way it should be done.. the best part of the whole deal is that it insulates the customer from owning a battery, and that is good until the cost come down and the performance goes up. BP will be a huge market demanding new batteries, with constant quantity purchases negotiations… then they resell you miles of electric driving.
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Jul 26th, 2009 (1:18 am)Dan, it can automatically shut off when the right car is not nearby..and magnetic fields MAY be good for your kitty.
I think the system Nissan wants to use is way more sophisticated than what you are thinking about.
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Jul 26th, 2009 (1:31 am)3 year, 36,000 mile warranty on the battery is reasonable.. you can always get the extended warranty if you choose.. GM is forcing you to pay for that extended warranty by adding the cost of a second battery to each Volt it sells.. I want the option.
BTW, $6000 for a new battery every three years works out to 16 cents per mile.. and displaces about 1800 gallons of gasoline.
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Jul 26th, 2009 (1:36 am)You are thinking of the old electric toothbrush tech, the new wireless power transfer tech can be over longer distances without losing efficiency.
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+1
Jul 26th, 2009 (1:38 am)Lots of people had ideas, but it took Tesla to bring it to the market..
Finally!, after 100 years of electric cars.
Even today people still talk of magic batteries needed for electric cars.
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Jul 26th, 2009 (1:43 am)YES, BRING THEM ON NISSAN !!!!!
GO EV !!!!
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Jul 26th, 2009 (1:46 am)As GM has pointed out many times, ~78% of people drive commute 40 miles or less/day. So for the vast majority of people 100 miles will be sufficient for the vast majority of the time.
The occasional long trip will be a potential problem.
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+1
Jul 26th, 2009 (1:48 am)10 minute charges will never become popular, too low a demand and too expensive to do.
The safety issues are easily solved and will be for the equipment to receive UL certification, this is all standard stuff..
Like many have mentioned, the charging cables would be too heavy for self service refueling so you would need an attendant…
There is really no reason to worry about it much. The mindset of the need for 10 minute refueling will die with gasoline powered cars.
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Jul 26th, 2009 (1:52 am)a company claims 98% efficiency.. and that was for high powered stuff.
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Jul 26th, 2009 (1:53 am)“at the power densities required, you could keep your lunch warm as you drive it back to the office ”
it still would be safer than sticking your tongue in the charging cable..
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Jul 26th, 2009 (5:46 am)President Obama is pushing his national medical plan. Doctors will be linked to the government via bed side computer. The patient’s details will be entered into the computer and a suggested method of treatment (provided by the government medical team) will be displayed.
Arthritic knee replacement surgery’s will be replaced with pain killer plans. The idea being to avoid high dollar procedures on people who can’t contribute to society. The 30 year old will get a titanium knee. The 60 year old will get bed rest and pain killers. But his pain killers will be low priced.
See where this is going?
What’s next? A yearly city transportation services pass for $2000? Look at the benefits. Most city vehicles run on electric or bio diesel. Most have bicycle carriers. No need for drivers license or insurance premiums. Forget oil changes and gas lines. Side benefit: In an emergency the city transport card readers will know your location.
Oh, you want your own car? Maybe the green tax will change your mind. It’s for your own good.
=D~
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Jul 26th, 2009 (6:41 am)Never say never, Herm. I’m not a huge fan of the fast charge model. Too many battery issues, charger, cable, power, heat etc. I agree with your assessment about safety being a non-issue. I do think trucking may make fast or at least “faster” (something like 480V, 100A) charging a reality for highways at rest stops, truck stops, etc. This could catch on and be used as a customer draw for regional malls highway-side restaurants, etc rather than as a profit source.
A STP superconductor would negate most of the concerns but we shouldn’t hold our breath for that.
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+1
Jul 26th, 2009 (6:41 am)Huh? That’s the future!
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+1
Jul 26th, 2009 (7:16 am)You should be nervous about using gasoline. One gallon of gasoline has the explosive power of several sticks of dynamite.
Electric vehicles are just new to you now. Your kids/grandkids will wonder why you were crazy enough to drive around in a rolling bomb!
PS, you don’t feel fear when you plug in the toaster do you? Thought not.
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Jul 26th, 2009 (7:26 am)“Witricity’s approach exploits the resonance of low frequency electromagnetic waves.” (from the link)
People who are worried about cooking their dinner should now be able to breathe easy.
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Jul 26th, 2009 (8:27 am)Herm.
I am reading your posts up and down the thread.
Your philosophy seems to be more than just optimistic, it seems to me to be an
“IT’S ALL GOOD”, for the purposes of “the more consumer selections we have, the better”. (Understandably positive).
But I respectfully disagree extensively.
From my working and diagnosing ALL makes and models, ALL processor systems, ALL manufacturers’ design methodologies, ALL down through the last three decades , there is one and only one manufacturer that overall, hands down, is the very best at supporting its customers with new technologies, and it is GM.
If GM is not doing it, you can safely bet that there are darn good reasons. Because it is “NOT ALL GOOD” out there with all this experimental marketing of experiments. (It’s all, however, in the 150,000 mile warranty from a company that you expect to survive).
When I post, the very highest of industry, safety and product reliabilities as established from GM are my basis (as well as from my extended experience with all other OEM technologies when they all get old and fail). I don’t even work for GM, it has just happened to work out that way, that GM happens to test the best down through the last 30 years. And, those last 30 years retrospectively analyzed with a Genisys scanner back to 1980 GM’s and other OEM’s too.
I require the advanced independent technicians that I train to have 3 GM vehicles as the initial training vehicles in the service bays for L-1 advanced systems diagnostics seminars which I teach.
I have conducted 129 Automotive L-1 Advanced Processor Systems training seminars in the last 5 years with 418 technicians.
While many posts here are “forward-looking” and “optimistic” far beyond reality, my concern is always that the unsuspecting consumer will “generalize” that the expectations of exceptional industry standards GM has clearly founded **for us all** down through the decades is mistakenly transferred (onto other experimental automotive products) in an unrealistic acceptance of other ****really really***** BAD**** things that you have no way of being protected from.
Optimism is perfectly OK. But it ain’t “all good” by a long shot.
The poor consumer that buys into something that will be totally worthless at three years because he or she expected some sort of “industry standard like GM’s” was their unfortunate and overly optimistic mistake.
(The corporate veil protects “investors” and “management” far too much with these experimental products whereupon the consumer is most certainly going to loose big time, and, those who benefit got off with the income from yet another failed experiment at your expense).
We are
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extremely
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fortunate to have Lyle’s experiences published regarding the MINI-E!!!!
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Jul 26th, 2009 (8:51 am)“$200 once a year vs $2000 a year extra in gas.”
Excellent point!
This article has stirred quite an emotional response in some people. It all boils down to choice, in my opinion. More choice for consumers is the best thing that can happen.
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Go EV!
Electric cars + Nuclear Power 40% + Geothermal/Hydro 10% + Solar and Wind 50% + (Coal/Gas/Fossil Fuels 0%) = American Energy Independence and Environment Protection
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