GM recently announced it was forming a new partnership experiment with eBay Motors in California. The experiment is designed to see if this method of online buying can help GM be more successful in a state where sales have been traditionally slow, and if it works across the nation.
It seemed an obvious question to ask Chevrolet Brand Manager Ed Peper if GM might try using this technique to sell the first Chevy Volts. After all since those cars are being sold at a loss and demand will likely far outstrip supply, conceivably it could be a method for GM to actually make profit on those sales
Peper said of the eBay partnership, “in the interest of moving fast, and Fritz is really mandating we move as fast as we can on everything we’re doing, that’s something we’re looking at as a test here coming up.”
“It will be hopefully in the August – September timeframe and its again a test that we’re going to try in California using eBay,” he said. “We’ve got more details to work out on that and we’ll let those go at an appropriate time.”
When asked if the experiment works out whether could GM use the technique as a way of selling the first Volts at a profit Peper said “Exactly right.”
“We actually have been thinking about that same application to be able to do that, It something that’s definitely crossed our mind,” he said. “You could even have an auction on the vehicles. We use this already with certified used vehicles and its actually worked out very well. Dealers use it a lot.”
He also added “If it works in California its going to work just about anywhere.”
This entry was posted on Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 at 6:57 am and is filed under Launch, Marketing. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
+10
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:00 am)The “Buy it Now” price ?
$29,995.00
Sign me up !
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-2
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:00 am)Ebay as it works today is not good for selling cars, you need dealers to motivate people, to inject some emotion into an otherwise fully financial decision. Ebay should be used to list every car, new or used, that a dealer has for sale.. in an easily searchable format.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (7:01 am)“After all since those cars are being sold at a loss and demand will likely far outstrip supply, conceivably it could be a method for GM to actually make profit on those sales.”
My thoughts, exactly.
Also: Nice to hear that Fritz has a sense of urgency about everything. How un-GM of him.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:10 am)Who would actually be selling the vehicles? I thought automakers weren’t allowed to sell directly to consumers. And if that’s the case, the entity who would stand to profit would be the selling dealer and not GM. (I’m assuming eBay maintains it’s broker stance and does not qualify as a dealer in the traditional/legal sense.)
I could see a partnership between GM, eBay, and local dealers where GM agreed to supply the dealer with vehicles and those vehicles would only be sold via eBay, but I don’t see GM getting extra profit from the deal. Unless, that is, they create a special, higher priced (higher profit) trim line for the eBay version.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:14 am)As long as GM creates a short run of Volts in a “signature series”, then an auction would definitely work. After that, Herm’s idea of a dealer listing all their vehicles has merit.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:20 am)I bought a 4WD ‘92 Jeep Cherokee through eBay Motors several years ago. The owner included numerous excellent photos at eBay Motors showing the superb condition of the Jeep’s interior & exterior, photos which I was able to use a few years later when I finally sold it on autotrader.com. Given the availability of the detailed photos, the CarFax on the vehicle, and eBay Motor’s buyer protection measures, I found it to be an excellent buying experience. No regrets whatsoever!
It will be very interesting to see how it works out for GM & their buyers.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (7:23 am)Great Idea. I think it will work.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (7:30 am)Why don’t you just sell a little model of the Volt on e-bay! This sounds like the new deal from the NEW GM. Pretty tacky. I still don’t see anything at the GM dealerships on the VOLT. Are they part of the NEW GM?
What happened to the old days when GM would have a few big trucks taking a copy of the vehicle to different cities to promote the vehicle. You want to sell it on the internet and that is all we have seen about the VOLT. It sure is hard to touch, set in and get to know it but, I guess it is good for the Computer Rangers.
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+9
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:34 am)I’m guessing “Buy it Now” around $49,995 at the start, lol.
——
Actually, ebay Volts sound pretty good for some people…not so much for others.
If you don’t live in the most ‘most plug-in ready’ early rollout locations (like power starved California), now all you need is some extra cash and a addy in California and you can be assured of getting a very early release Volt, no hassles at all.
No more pesky putting your name on a waiting list to pay MSRP (once you hunt down the participating dealers) and then watching GM deliver ‘inventory’ cars around the country before you get yours shipped, tediously pestering your local dealer about shipment and tracking the VIN through the build.
/now you can ‘incentivitize’ GM to sell you a car, lol.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (7:35 am)If the car is sold at a loss, wouldn’t it be better for GM not to sell any, then they wouldn’t have to book it as a loss. After all, if a product is sold at a loss, it’s hard to make it up in volume. Just build them then recycle them. Still provides lots of jobs and the productions costs will be covered by gov’t anyway. Win, win for everybody… except for the few remaining saps actually working and paying taxes….
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:37 am)Got pay-pal or Visa, whatever’ll please ya…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKtlK7sn0JQ
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+5
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:44 am)Sorry, but I need to smell the “rich Corinthian leather” (yeah, right), or at least pop the hood (lottsa new stuff in there) before I write the check.
I guess I’m old fashioned (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
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Jul 21st, 2009 (7:47 am)That seems like a google product not an ebay product. If we are just talking about indexing and searching
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:47 am)Why Ebay? Why pay the overhead. If you can sell cars online, sell them online from chevy.com. Some advertisements around the web will pull people in.
GM can find some college kid to set up an auction site. Ebays cut would be too much. Sell online and then deliver through the closest dealer and pay that dealer the sales fees that you would have paid Ebay.
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+7
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:47 am)I wonder how the dealers feel about GM scooping up the ‘premium’ pure profit dollars on a new product that historically would have gone to them? Corvetteguy knows what I am talking about…like that extra 5-10K on each ‘early’ Camaro they sold.
Sidenote: Why does GM need ebay at all to hock new Volts? Why not just convert one of the 50 sites and resources they have going now to a auction site, or add the app to the main site?
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Jul 21st, 2009 (7:47 am)They’ll set up an in house dealer called “GM Direct” (or something similar) to sell these vehicles on Ebay.
I think it’s a good idea. More access to buy but, at higher initial prices.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (7:52 am)“Ebay auction” and “mass produced” seem like polar opposites to me, but it might work at the start for low rate initial production.
I’m also worried that it means the price will stay well above my threshold for a long time.
Probably wouldn’t be a “buy it now” price at all, just a minimum bid.
GM should auction off each production slot individually – similar to how big airframers (Boeing, etc.) sell airplanes. Maybe put the first 100 slots up for sale.
I wonder how many non-Californians will finagle their way into buying one from a Californian dealer. Will be watching closely…
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Jul 21st, 2009 (8:02 am)I would hope that E-bay sales would not be exclusive, that a dealer near me would at least have a demonstrator (not for sale) and a waiting list where I could plunk down $500, for metallic light brown Volt.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (8:06 am)I prefer the Amazon model, with user reviews, “buy it used” features and so on but I think Ebay would be more popular… you may be right about Google.
How about you search for the particular car model you want, and then the dealers bid to sell it to you.. that would not be too popular with dealers
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-1
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:08 am)Well I think its a desperation move. Wouldn’t you think the first 20 cars sold on an auction would be buyers from people affiliated with foreign car manufactures for reverse engineering?
The Volt would not be a car for a typical city commuter since you would not want to run the charging engine all the time for distances greater then the 40 mile round trip. I for one drive 120 miles a day for the last 20 years so I am looking for a diesel or the next step in storage technology. The Volt is a great first step compared to the moon walk but it has a limited appeal due to constraints on technology.
I kind of see In the next 12-15 years electronic devices not using modern batteries. IT could be grids many trillions of nano super capacitors embedded or grown into the chassis plastics and composites replacing the battery. If the light weight chassis gets damaged one could imagine much like computer memory the ability to block out parts of the bad area and continue to function fine from load balancing by other parts of the car.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (8:09 am)Thank God for car dealers, otherwise we would all be driving used 2 year old Corollas.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:11 am)From someone who has purchased in excess of 30 GM products over my lifetime, I’ll pass on ebay an Volt for that matter, if they decide to go this way.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:12 am)The use of eBay will only create an inflated price due to the bidding process. GM should just set a price and let people decide if the price is right. I would rather buy a car from a dealer that will have a knowledgeable sales person for these new cars.
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+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:20 am)I buy all my cars on eBay ! It Rocks.
It’s good to see GM finally moving to the 21st century.
Nothing finer than winning that Volt bid on the bay.
eBay is already one of the largest seller of automobiles in the entire world. Welcome aboard GM.
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+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:23 am)THIS site would be a great site to have a link to buy Volts.
Be well,
Tagamet
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+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:24 am)eBay FTW !
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-2
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:26 am)Speaking of tests, how does one go about taking a test drive of a vehicle purchased on ebay?
I mean, whats the point?
You’re going to have to go to a dealer to pick the thing up anyway.
ebay cannot replace the dealership, especially when it comes to taking a vehicle you’re about to purchase for a test drive.
In fact, I will not buy a vehicle sight unseen.
I MUST take it for a test drive!
=D~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:35 am)Nothing wrong with eBay getting a cut. It’s a lot better than those greedy dealerships and their massive markups and add-ons. Car Dealers Suck.
BTW, dealers do not employ salesman, they are known as scam artist on their employment contract.
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+6
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:42 am)I would go one step further and make eBay the “exclusive” seller of the Volt (at least in the U.S. where it is used by everyone).
One thing about eBay, if your product is bad word spreads fast. So GM must have a lot of confidence in their product.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:46 am)The problem with high ticket, high publicity items is then number of bad bids that get submitted. I see it all the time, auction is on the news for something on Ebay, pretty soon the item goes from say $2,000 to $4,000,000 because of bad bids. Causes all sorts of problems, re listings, canceled bids etc. Seems like a disaster waiting to happen to me.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:48 am)No need for test drive with eBay. They have all the photos and videos you will need to make an informed decision. If that is not enough, current and previous owners can post feedback.
You sir are showing your age. Are you a blue hair ?
Test Drive is an extremely old school method. You need to change with the times Bubba.
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+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:52 am)Not True. You can already order cars on the Internet and the Dealer will bring it (an paperwork) to your house. You do not have to set foot in a dealership. It sounds like you are a little out of date.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:52 am)“He also added “If it works in California its going to work just about anywhere.””
—————————————-
I think that statement does not ring as true today as it did a year or two ago. Hopefully the rest of the nation will not continue following California’s lead. You can see where it has gotten California with all the problems it now has.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:53 am)You won’t find a knowledgeable sales person at a dealer anytime soon. At least not technical, practical knowledge. Just read this site and you’ll know way more than anyone at the dealers (based on my personal experience). They do have plenty of knowlege about finance options though if you’re looking for that.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:59 am)OK, maybe I’m a bit old fashioned but I have come to associate ebay with overpriced crap and outright lies in the auctions.
Please send my Volt to my local dealer.
I say using ebay is a poor choice.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:01 am)It would be good for GM and good PR.
Without eBay sales all of the Volts in the first batch will go to those either closest geographically or those connected to the dealership in some way.
Dealer markup would jack up the price to way above MSRP anyway. I seem to recall that’s what happened with the New Beetle and the Mini. At least this way the extra would go directly to GM and not to some slimy greedy car dealer types.
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+8
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:02 am)According to the latest research (RDA Group) Ford Motor Co. now makes the highest quality cars. This is not a typo. Ford has overtaken Toyota in the latest survey. Also Ford has tied Toyota in customer satisfaction (80%) in the same survey.
I invite you to consider a Ford for your next purchase. Our Ford Fusion Hybrid will appeal to many a Volt enthusiast.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:02 am)You mean, like this?
http://www.amazon.com/Zero-Motorcycles-Zero-X-Sport-Electric-Motorcycle/dp/B001SK3GHA
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+10
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:04 am)“you need dealers to motivate people, to inject some emotion into an otherwise fully financial decision”
Absolutley not, dealers are the most painful experience in buying a car. You pay for all these dealerships by paying too much at them. Lousy service from dealers who scrape by is what makes them the achilles heel of the auto industry.
If we all could just buy from the manufacturer, we would all be better off.
The dealer is hands down the worst part about buying a car.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:05 am)I understand GM’s desire to make a profit on its Volt vehicles, but it would seem selling the first ones over eBay is not keeping its commitment to its potential customers who would never purchase a vehicle over the web. I would have to assume their intent is to offer a few early sales over the web but to offer regular dealership sales later in November 2010. I wish them luck, but I for one would not take the “bait”. First of all, I could not afford to “bid” for a vehicle with a starting price of around $40,000. But that’s just me.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:06 am)I’m with you Guy!
I must see and drive any car prior to purchase.
Pictures do not cut it since I actually DRIVE my cars.
Pictures only might be fine for those who buy on image rather than substance but that isn’t good enough as far as I am concerned.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:08 am)No hands on test drive = many fewer sales.
This is a BAD idea.
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+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:11 am)This makes perfect sense.
Since it is well known that only a very few “select” dealerships will be allowed to sell the Volt and most people will NOT live near one. By using eBay everyone gets a fair shake at an order. Sound fair to me. Actually it sounds too good. Where’s the kicker here ?
If there is no catch then I applaud GM for this decision.
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+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:11 am)That’s right. And Buick has recently tied with Jaguar for the number one spot in JD Powers long term reliability. Goodbye Lexus. This could be one reason the Chinese have made Buick the top selling car in their country.
Americans are suckers for buying Japanese cars now. In this economy we nee to keep all the money we can within our own shores.
And please don’t tell me “well my Japanese car is made here in America, by American workers.” The PROFITS go to Japan Inc. And the jobs were not created – they were just shifted from American car companies to Japanese (and other foreign) car companies.
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-1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:13 am)I can see it now…
“YOU ARE BIDDING ON a picture of A NEW CHEVY VOLT!”
BUY IT NOW PRICE $ 40000…
scambay is so full of crap over the last few years I long ago stopped buying anything there…
Please tell me the new GM is NOT a scumbag ebay seller… I find this terribly depressing…
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:13 am)If GM is motivated strictly on making a profit on the first batch of Volts, why not ship a few hundred Volts to California dealers but retain title to the vehicles. Let the dealer add a markup they think will sell in their area based on interest. GM and the dealer could then split the markup.
Or why not just let the dealers hold local auctions on the Volts and let everyone interested place bids. High bid gets the car and GM and the dealer could split the price over sticker. It would not have to be a 50/50 split.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:14 am)Lyle I would trust WAY before ebay, and I have never met the man!
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:15 am)Absolutely.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:15 am)Just wondering, Could GM use E-bay to presell a Volt and then offer it to the highest over normal net to the dealers in the general area?
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:16 am)How much would eBay make on the sale of a $40,000 Volt?
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+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:18 am)I take it you stand outside your car and try to pickup ‘chicks’ eh?
Those of us who actually USE our cars drive them first.
You are acting like a fool if you spend $40+k sight unseen.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:18 am)Good idea to get the most bang for the product. I have to wait for gen 2 because my income got furloghed for the next 18 months. This sucks.
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+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:20 am)I was thinking the same thing statik. The dealers can not get the cars and then list them on Ebay and make an extra $5k or $10k. The profits go from the dealer to GM …. not that that is a bad thing. I mean they are the ones shelling out all the money to build these cars at a loss …. no wait that is the US tax payers …. never mind.
Hey GM, while you are at it why not just sell all the cars on Ebay or a GM based web sight. You have 1 auto dealer per city over 35,000 people. (at least 8 within a 40 miles radius of my house) That dealer has 1 of every model on the lot that you can test drive, see options and will service all models. You figure out what you want and go onto the web sight to search for your car. You find it, bid on it and then have the car shipped to your house. (I can get a car shipped to my house for a lot less then what GM charges). This will eliminate a ton of jobs, cut costs and make a profit for the new Governmental Motors.
– the preceding is dripping with sarcasm.
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+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:21 am)As in all other things, you can’t condemn every dealer based on experience with one or more dealers. There are a lot of very good dealers out there. It is up to you to find a good one and keep them straight by being knowledgeable yourself.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:22 am)The first 100 sounds about right.
The big money would be for the very first one. I wonder if GM would actually be willing to sell it, and not reserve it for Lutz or someone like that. If some pre-production Volts ended up on the road there could be hard feelings.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:23 am)______________________________________________________
Amazon.com would be a much better and more logical place for GM to retial new cars.
eBay is OK for pre-owned cars but does not make sense for new.
______________________________________________________
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:23 am)I fail to see the down side of getting up to 1/3 of your daily 120 mile commute gas free.
But I do see Batterys as a stop gap measure till some form of induction from the road is developed and then even E-REV will be a thing of the past.
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+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:25 am)GM + eBay = More Sales
If this proves successful then I can see more models going the eBay route and eventually the dealers getting squeezed out. This would be fine with me. The only reason you cannot do a complete sale on the Net is because of antiquated laws to protect union workers in many states. It time to pull the auto industry into the new world order. BTW, in many countries you can order cars online with no problems.
I see future dealers located in mall parking lots as circus clowns where you go to test drive a car for a buck or two only and you must actually place your order online directly from the factory. This bypasses the greedy middleman that has been artificially inflating auto costs for decades.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:28 am)I am not sure if I like this, but at least I bid what I am willing to pay. Not the dealer mark ups for new vehicles. I hear dealers want $500 to $2500 over MSRP for the Camaro. How much mark up on a limited production car like the first year Chevy Volt?
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:28 am)eBay sounds interesting. Will there be combined shipping on multiple purchases?
I wonder if MLM is really the way to go.
… buy a starter pack of ten Volts and have ten of your friends do the same and ten of their friends do the same and ten of their friends….
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:31 am)Volume discounts for sure !!!
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:33 am)Gen 1 of any almost any new product makes little or no profit.
Once the product is in the field they find out where the redundancies are and they ‘cost reduce’ the production costs to make the profit margin larger.
Manufacturing 101 my friend.
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+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:37 am)Are you kidding me?? Photos, videos and written descriptions tell you NOTHING about the mechanical condition of a car. I have bought dozens of used cars and trucks in my time, and I would never buy a used car sight unseen unless it was the last one of it’s kind or something. If you are willing to pay too much and accept “little surprises” when you get your car, then I guess eBay is OK for you.
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-4
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:38 am)That’s a bummer Cap’n…
Personally ebay gets none of my money, so hopefully this is just a lead out ‘thing’.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:40 am)Statik, actually they can’t sell the car this way. It’s against the law. What GM has already said is that they will sell the car on eBay but the buyer must go to a dealer to pickup the car, and pay all additional fees. The dealer is not cut out of the loop. This is Federal Law. The dealer may give a discount because there is little time spent with the customer, but then again, they may charge full price on all fees to stick it to the buyer. It’ll be interesting to see how it works out.
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+6
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:43 am)The Dealer markup on a Volt will be HUGE. Since only 10,000 Volts will be made from Nov 2010 thru Jul 2011 they will jack it up as much as the market will bear. IMO, eBay would keep the total cost lower for most customers. Look for battery packs (used from wrecks, refurbs, and stolen) to be readily available on eBay as well. This is a win-win situation.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:46 am)And where would you get your warranty work completed?
Where would you find a qualified Volt mechanic?
I get that you have had bad experiences at car dealerships and you are NOT alone. BUT to remove access to an actual person through the sales and support process is just crazy talk.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:47 am)Not really. Many dealers have demonstrators that you can test drive. Then you bid. When/if you win, you notify the dealer and a car is placed on order for you. Just try and buy a Camaro today. Most dealers can’t get enough in stock because they are selling so fast, but usually they have at least one on hand for a test drive. My niece picked up her Honda on eBay over seven years ago. The car is still running. You can buy quaility online, you just have to adjust how you do your research and validation that you really want that particular car/make/model.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:47 am)Or for that matter, how much would a dealer make on the sale of a $40,000 Volt? The “invoice” figure does not reflect the actual financial arrangement between GM and various dealers. The whole organization is shrouded in secrecy, sort of like the Mafia.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:48 am)This is definately a problem. The dealer network needs more oversight without doubt..
The NEW GM should go to a set pricing model (much like Saturn has/had).
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:53 am)Based on the bankruptcy, the new GM should be able to sell direct to the consumer without worrying about auto dealer protection laws.
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+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:53 am)Does this mean we have to add 2% to the MSRP of the Volt to cover Ebay’s fees?
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+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:54 am)Why stop at eBay. I would love to order my next car using my iPhone/iPod. Apple could easily setup an Auto Store via iTunes. There are hundreds of millions of users worldwide that can place orders using this method now. GM should seize the moment and contact Apple ASAP.
Until that happens I will settle for ordering a Volt using my eBay client on my iPhone if I must but I won’t be a happy camper until I can purchase directly thru an online Apple Auto Store. Let’s Do This !!!
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:54 am)A Fusion hybrid doesn’t even come close to what the Volt is going to do for me. My office is exactly 15 miles from my house (30 miles round trip). My future Volt won’t use a drop of gasoline. Your Fusion will. I see why Ford needs to sell cars though. Since GM has wiped out the UAW’s old pay scale GM will be able to build cars much cheaper than Ford. Ford is stuck in the old UAW pay scale. Do you really think not filing BK by Ford was such a good idea? Ford has also already tapped its last loan to keep the company running. Once that money is gone what will Ford do? They will run to the government. Some predict that we won’t be out of this mess until 2015. GM can now be profitable selling 1/3rd fewer cars per year than Ford. This all should get very interesting.
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-2
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:54 am)I think that eBay GM sales is a really bad idea. It’s cheesy pandering rather than real car sales. Trying desperately to gain some 21st century internet cred. All it will do is transfer the bad rep of the car dealer directly to GM. People really don’t like mark ups. eBay is just a system to help the buyer get a big mark up, it’s all about the seller, not the buyer.
Think about this GM, how many potential Toyota conquest sales are you going to lose when it becomes public knowledge that Volts are going for $60k – $70? That Prius buyer is going to buy another Prius instead. You pushed for government tax credits to help people be able to afford the Volt, and now you’re going to piss that away??!!
You want good will and good PR? Sell the Volt at the dealership and use what ever leverage you can to force the dealer to sell the Volt to anybody (no games or contests) at MSRP! Let people know that THIS is the New GM and that it’s safe to go back in the Chevy dealership. The sharks have been driven off and now it’s all happy dolphins. Build good will, don’t become online slime balls with dollar signs in your eyes.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:57 am)The very first will certainly be reserved. It’s hard to determine order of production with mass production though. Especially at the start when everything is subject to minor changes and tweaks. VIN numbers, production slots, and designations get mixed and switched in the mass of details moving from the last non production cars into the initial production vehicles.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (9:58 am)A reverse auction like Priceline would be an absolutely great idea. Hadn’t thought of this.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:00 am)The question is then, WHY is ebay required? The price is almost without exception higher there anyway! (Yes I have looked for things there, and I go elsewhere.)
If I’m at the dealership and I LIKE the test drive car why would I want to go to scumbay to order the car through a questionable process??
I’d just order the car through the dealer at an agreed price and be done.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (10:08 am)OK Neal, now you did it, just what are our problems sir
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Jul 21st, 2009 (10:08 am)The entire system runs this way, there is no need to demonize GM for the way all retail works.
If you KNOW the dealers price then you hammer them close to that number and the dealer dies. Despite stories to the contrary there ARE good dealerships out there who care about their customers.
I hope the NEW GM audits the dealer MUCH more often to ensure excellent service.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (10:12 am)Might as well, that is what GM does to its suppliers. I wouldnt mind returning the favor.
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-1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:13 am)Right!
Skip the ebay silliness and force MSRP.
Dealers for their part need to either re-train or DUMP the “slimeball” sales agents.
Make walking into a Chevy dealer a comfortable experience.
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-4
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:14 am)Hi boys,
Are you reading to take the final step and purchase your shiny new Volt ? You know you deserve it. Sign up now and get your Chevrolet Volt here:
https://scgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?RegisterEnterInfo
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:29 am)Oh god… G(a)Mway…
It’s both funny and terribly sad at the same time!
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:30 am)It all comes down to out of pocket cost for the buyer.
If the price is initially high, then potential buyers will delay buying. Or perhaps look elsewhere.
What will stunt Volt sales?
1>Price over $40,000
2>Having to wait until tax time to redeem the green incentive of $7500
3>Initial buyers reporting less than expected performance and quality
4>Production line problems, UAW strikes, supplier delays .. ect
What will boost Volt sales?
1>Price under $40,000
2>Instant rebate of $7500
3>Smooth driving performance and reliability
4>5000 parts per month manufacturing capability
It’s as simple as this
=D~
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+5
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:37 am)I’m not a fan of car dealerships either. I just wish I could buy a car straight from the manufacture and not deal with the stupid commission people. “Let me borrow your keys”, “let me talk to my manager”, “let me talk to my manager#2″, “let me talk to my manager #3″, etc. The only good experience I ever had with any dealership is when I bought my truck through carsdirect. When I went to the dealership to get my vehicle all I had to do was sign stuff. There was no questions on price and no hassles or pressure and best of all no idiot people wasting my time.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:39 am)Yeah, especially the “Currently unavailable” part !
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Jul 21st, 2009 (10:43 am)If you don’t live in the most ‘most plug-in ready’ early rollout locations (like power starved California), now all you need is some extra cash and a addy in California and you can be assured of getting a very early release Volt, no hassles at all.
_________________________________________________
Why do you keep saying that CA is power starved? Other than the situation created by Enron in 2001 this hasn’t been the case.
During the last few years there has been the occasional crunch for a couple of hours during the summer but that has been related to the drought in the Pacific Northwest. In the summer CA draws power from the NW; in the winter the NW draws power from CA. But the NW hasn’t had its normal excess power because of the drought.
CA has a good record on power for a couple of reasons. One is that the mix of power is fairly green: a lot of the baseline is nuclear and the 500MW of rooftop solar installations generates a lot of power during those hot summer afternoons. Second and more importantly is that regulatory action has cut the increase in demand fairly dramatically. Years ago the regulators split distribution charges from power charges. As a consequence, the electric utilities have had no financial incentive to sell power and, surprise surprise, the increase in demand for electric power has been far below the national trend line.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (10:44 am)I haven’t kept up with all the info for a while – Is the “WAITING LIST” Dead or Not?
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Jul 21st, 2009 (10:49 am)At 400 lbs I would think that the shipping costs would be a little prohibative for “used” batteries on E-Bay. I’m not sure that I could even get one in the back of my Toyota pickup.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (10:54 am)I visited my local GM dealership and asked a salesperson if they had any literature on the Volt and his reply was “What’s that?” He had never heard of the Volt and had no idea GM was building an electric car.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:56 am)You are joking?
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:58 am)For better or worse, Rob, your local dealer would agree with you!
Luckily, I have two local dealerships that I can permit myself to like, so I’m on your side on this one.
It’s really a shame though, that they’re so far behind the learning curve, regarding the Volt.
OMG my own post is giving me emotional whiplash!!
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:58 am)In my opinion you have highlighted the main problem with the dealership model. Some are terrible and some are excellent. I know of people who had such a problem with a dealership that they will not buy the brand. Some of these people don’t have much of an option. Maybe that is the only dealer around. The manufactures try to keep them in line but the dealerships find ways to game the system. One example: After buying my last truck(the one before my current) I was called from the manufacture about a purchase satisfaction survey. I never received one and it turns out my sales guy filled out the survey himself. Nice job keeping them in check… I did get to fill out the survey eventually.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:58 am)You forgot to mention that CA gets ALL of the power from Hoover Dam in Nevada. Nevada gets no power at all from Hoover Dam!
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-1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:59 am)MSRP? Who the hell pays MSRP???
I won’t buy any car inlcuding a Volt unless I can get a decent deal, which usually means near invoice.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:59 am)Induction from the road? I think it will be cheaper to put overhead wires across the entire Interstate system and we’re done – similar to what electric trains have. That would cover over 99% of driving conditions (while you’re on an interstate, you also recharge your battery)
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:01 am)Anything they can do to make it easier to buy it is a good thing. Most people would rather have a root canal than set foot in a car dealership, so if they can take dealers out of the equation I say excellent idea GM. I’d rather all the profits go to GM rather than some dealer.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:04 am)You have to give Ford credit, however, for the Fusion. This is a cool vehicle similar in size to the Malibu but with better mileage. Too bad GM could not make a hybrid Malibu with the Fusion mileage.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:06 am)If I’m unable to get a Volt when I need to buy my car, I will absolutely go with the Ford Fusion Hybrid. From everything I’ve heard, I believe that Ford had made amazing strides in product portfolio and quality and reliability of vehicles.
I also believe that Ford is the American car company that is in the best position to do a geniune turnaround. And Ford is every bit as crucial to the American economy as GM is. I wish you the best of luck. Unfortunately, I really think you’ll need it.
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+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:06 am)>> There was no questions on price and no hassles or pressure
>> and best of all no idiot people wasting my time.
*sigh*… this part of your post makes me miss “Classic Saturn.” That is, Saturn during their first eight years or so.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:08 am)It seems like many people on the list think the problem facing GM is selling Volts. As I see it, the problem is rationing the meager number they are planning to build. The chances of my getting one in CT before 2013 seems pretty slim. Why they aren’t emulating Tesla and selling production slots to minimize the chaos is unfathomable. Could also improve cash flow.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:18 am)Believe me, if GM could get the dealers to forgo their mark-ups, they would do it with the Camaro. It’s ultimately costing them sales at a time when they need all the sales they can get.
As far as the Volt–I think the e-bay thing is a desperate attempt at controlling the dealers. This way GM can’t be blamed for the inevitable mark-ups, the way they would be if dealers decided to charge $20,000 over sticker. You can’t blame them if the car is in demand! And they can get a cut, which they desperately need.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:19 am)I think this is a great idea!
Using an auction to determine the price of the first few Volts strikes me as Very Efficient in economic terms. The people who want them the most will get them first, and will pay a market-negotiated premium for the privilege. My guess is that this will more progress toward paying off the R&D and tooling costs than any other product-launch strategy.
But, alas, I’ll be priced out of this market. I’ll have to wait until the supply increases to the point where it looks more like the market for a normal car. But that was going to have to wait until this point one way or another, since I live in a college town — so a mechanism that comes from efficient operation of the market and makes it more likely that I’ll get mine is somehow more satisfying.
This also might increase the perceived value of the car. If I buy my Volt for an idealized $29,999 sticker price, but I know that the car is desirable enough that someone else paid $80k for theirs, then I’ll probably be a lot happier about paying MSRP for a Chevy…
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:20 am)You can’t condemn them all, but you can condemn 95% of them. They are in sales. Salespeople do not give a shit about you in any way shape of form. You are merely a person they fool into giving money to them from a crafted charade they put on.
If you fall for the illusion that salespeople even remotely care for you, then you must also think strippers like you as well.
Salespeople only care about getting $$$ from you and will do anything for it. You don’t keep a dealer “in check” you merely fall for yet another crafty illusion that they care about you. They would do anything to keep the mindless consumer to spend more money, and people think that this is keeping a dealer in line?
That is you being lead around like a puppet.
Eliminating auto dealers would be the single best thing for ALL auto industries.
I mean, seriously, what service does any dealer do to help you buy a car, besides convince weak minded people to buy a car they didn’t want. If you want it, then you buy it. If you get “talked” into it or think you got a good deal, then you were just had by the dealer.
So that being said a dealer physically does nothing to sell a vehicle, if you wanted it, and could buy it at a lot owned by the company without paying for all the dealer “fluff” versus buying it at a dealer, you’d buy it at a company outlet EVERY time.
Dealers are useless.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:20 am)This may be a really dumb question–but is there a rule against purchasing a car from a different state? Why would you need to finagle?
And why would you need a California address if it’s done on ebay? Couldn’t you bid anyway if you’re willing to pick it up in California?
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:31 am)You are obviously dealing with the wrong dealer(s). Having a local dealer who is there to service your needs, take care of maintenance and interface with the manufactuer on your behalf is key. Manufacturers build vehicles, but they don’t service them nor do they provide warranty service. Rather, they rely on a network of franchised dealers to provide those services and perform warranty work. For the priviliage of being able to do so, each dealership runs as an independent business; investing their money in parts inventory, employee training and certification, local facilities, etc. At the end of the day, dealers actually loose money on most individual warranty jobs; as the cost of performing the repairs is greater than the reimbursement from the Manufacturer. However, dealers provide warranty service as just a part of their business, and they are required to do so to maintain their franchise.
The vast majority of dealers provide real and tangible value and service to their customers. Unfortunately, as in any business or industry, there are those few who spoil the reputation of many. Bob, you need to go find a new local dealer!
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:33 am)In my experience as a customer, it really depends on the dealership. Both on the individual character of the dealership and how irritating their sales and service people happen to be — and also on the standards set by the brand behind the dealership.
Reading stickers in the windows of a car at some dealerships can be like a gauntlet, though. I don’t set foot on the lot of those dealerships unless I have to.
As for service, the Toyota service departments that I’ve worked with have been much better than average. The Ford service departments that I’ve used pretty much define average — they want to take care of the customer, but sometimes $#!t happens and they can’t. Volkswagen seems to be hit and miss. I can’t speak to GM dealer service departments, since I’ve never owned a GM car.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:35 am)Laura,
I don’t think so. People in the DC area that live in Maryland purchase cars from dealerships in Virginia all the time.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:35 am)Storm – where in CT? I am confident the VOLT available for sale in CT early in the roll-out period. Although GM has made no firm announcement of distribution plans, it will definitely be coming to the metro NY market.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:36 am)Everyone who posts on this site says the $40,000 price for a VOLT is too high, and now NGMCO is actually trying to sell them for a profit?
I guess that really sucks for all those “I’ll-never-pay-anything-close-to-MSRP-for-any-car” crowd!
Good luck fellas!
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:37 am)Agreed. It would most likely price me out of the Volt market as well. I’d end up waiting for the Zenn Motors EESTOR ultra capacitor all electric in that case.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:38 am)I’m sorry. Is that part of the new budget that they just passed in California? It sounds horrible all the way around.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:40 am)WOW! -4 at the time of this posting!
ebay must have crackhead followers!
I DID buy on ebay in the early years but got tired of all the crap (and fee’s).
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:41 am)“And now for something completely different…..”
Prius takes out town’s electricity, driver flees
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/07/21/prius-takes-out-towns-electricity-driver-flees/
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:41 am)My Chevy Malibu can be used to pick that up for you if needed.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:46 am)So GM should jump at the chance to have 50% of what it could get by just selling direct to customers via eBay? It looks like the only winner in that scenario is the car dealer; both the customer and GM would lose with that scenario.
I’ll Pass!
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:46 am)1. GM has been auctioning off early one-off versions of new models for several years. They auctioned off the first Chevy SS-R’s, Corvette Z06, Camaro, etc. There were a few early production models of each that, in most cases, GM donated to a major charity and the vehicles were auctioned off on eBay to raise money.
With the US franchise system, GM or any other manufacturer cannot sell directly to the consumer. This is not so much a penalty on the manufacturer, but a protection for the consumer. If manufacturers sold vehicles directly to the consumer, and then the consumer had a problem a few months later, what would they do? Call FedEx and arrange a large box and ‘return to manufacturer’ for repairs? I don’t think so.
Local Dealers make major investments on behalf of the manufacturer and the consumer. Each dealer carries a significant inventory of parts – all bought from the Manufacturer at pricing determined by the Manufacturer – and has them available for maintenance and warranty repairs. Yes, many times a dealer does not have the exact part YOUR vehicle needs – it just always seems that way – but it is virtually impossible to have every part for every model made by the manufacturer in stock. With over 25,000 parts per vehicle, the number of parts would quickly swell to something totally unmanageable. But most dealers do invest in and stock the most likely parts that might be required. Each dealer is also responsible for hiring and training qualified technicians to perform needed service work. This is a significant investment that the manufacturer does not incur.
At the end of the day, GM may decide to list dealer’s inventory on eBay, but I seriously doubt that they can begin selling vehicles directly to consumers. If they do, consumer beware that your local dealer is another step closer to disappearing.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:49 am)Very neat idea – to fleece suckers
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:50 am)I’m thinking that on-line ordering would be better than the lack of response I’m getting from my local dealers. They only seem interested in selling what they already have on their lots right now.
Anybody know where I can get on a waiting list?
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:50 am)OK…
Hence the REASON that sales HAVE TO be ’slimey’.
If the price is the price then you can have a cute blonde girl do your paperwork. No stress, no slime, NO MARKUP, with a fair fee to the dealer for perfoming their services.
The REASON people HATE buying cars is because some people get the inside track and then BEAK about it. So then the sales people need to lie to the customer so they can get their commission so they can keep their kids in Wii games. The Normal customer comes out feeling ‘ripped off’, it’s an awful system.
A set price no negotiating model is better for all involved.
Yes Jerry, that means you pay MSRP like everybody else including me.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (11:55 am)A bid on eBay is a contract, just like any other. It is legally binding – read the eBay terms of service. The only problem is that eBay hasn’t aggressively gone after these bad bidding crooks (most of whom are probably tied to a competitor selling the same thing right on eBay). Enforcing the laws of this great country will nix that scum.
And this will not be the “standard” eBay Motors site, it will be tied to eBay but will be unique to GM. So GM will have a lot more to say about whether there will be prosecutions for breach of contract bidders. All eBay has to do is bring one or two of these cases to court and the press will do the rest.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:01 pm)I never said that the eventual car doesn’t end up at the dealer for you to pick up, with them making the spiff, and any residual cash flow generated for servicing…I fully expect that to happen. GM has to have a ‘face’ on the street level.
What I was saying is that this process takes the ‘premium dollars’ away. Dealers get there vehicles at a invoice price (plus a percentage kick back later), then turn around and sell them, hopefully around the MSRP. In some cases, when the car is new and/or hot, the car is easy sold at MSRP or more (generally under the auspicisous ‘dealer value added’ options, but sometimes just tacked on).
For example, lets say a GM dealer anticipates to make $2,200 per base Volt sold at a MSRP of $40,000, but due to demand and built in scarcity, he can mark up each copy he gets to $50,000. That dealer now makes $12,200…huzzah! That is what is happening now with the Camaro.
However, if it is ebayed directly from GM and then sent to a dealer, GM will give that dealer ‘his due’ of $2,200, as required by law and their dealer agreements…but GM will pocket the premium dollars.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (12:03 pm)I’m thinking about building my own electric. Looking for a Suzuki or Geo Tracker to build it from. Lightweight and already has a place in the back for the batteries. About 10 Gell Cells from the local Auto Zone should give me about 80 – 100 or so miles per charge. A little custom paint and some wheels and it might make a fine ride. Very Cheap also.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (12:06 pm)Their allotment for Amazon sales is already sold out for this MY and their production capacity is at 100% to try to meet demand (so why pay Amazon middleperson $). You can order directly from them at:
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/
with easy on-line deposits and shipping. Yes, they have local reps for service, sales and support, or you can always ask me how to change the brakes yourself (takes 5 minutes).
The direct sales link was right on the Amazon site page, but I guess you didn’t get that far.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:09 pm)Mike,
I don’t see an issue, the engineers currently are working on the integration vehicles. Once the production design is final (many months prior to actual manufacturing beginning) they will train the techs at the lead dealerships.
On the sales side they will have to get those folks up to speed.
There is time.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (12:10 pm)I always go to the Toyota service center with our Highlander (the last non-electric vehicle I’ll ever own).
Car DEALERS however are totally unnecessary in today’s world. The service center is all you need. GM can have a “sales support center” in each city where you go to get a test drive if you want one.
Personally, I’d go to a rental place and rent the car before buying it anyway. What can you honestly learn about a car in the artificial 4 blocks long test drive. Heck, they won’t even let you take them out on the freeway sometimes. There is no value there for me. Instead, I rent the car for a day or longer and drive it like I normally would my present car, same route, same times, same everything.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:10 pm)We have no idea what new agreements or addenda to the franchise agreements GM will make with dealers regarding eBay sales!
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+9
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:17 pm)This is the sort of thing that has to stop.
Those big markups scream of “bad” old GM…
They should go to set pricing like the origional Saturn dealers.
The price is the price.
Forget ebay and try customer service.
This is why people HATE buying a car… the experience (BOTH pre AND post sale) is terrible!
The service desk so often feels like you are playing 3 card monte.
The dealerships HAVE TO up their game without a doubt, but I still am not buying a car online.
It is clear my opinion is unpopular with a lot of people here today.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:21 pm)Funny, except that an MLM is a criminal enterprise. The only criminals in the car buying activity are the car dealers and their “value” add-ons like pin stripes for $700 or mud flaps for $220. And when you tell them you want a vehicle without all that crap added on the say “we don’t have any without the ‘value’ add-ons.” That’s when I walk out of their and buy from a different dealership. With the Volt, though, you won’t be able to set the terms. The dealer will set the terms and you will either agree or have “NO Volt for you.”
And don’t forget what happened with the New Beetle and the Mini. Dealers “marked up” the price of the first year or two production horribly. Supply and demand, they said. Just like a meth dealer would do.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (12:22 pm)If there are any of those laws in your state you should begin a grass roots effort to repeal them and ban any such laws in the future. It is anti-competitive practice. It should be illegal.
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+6
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:26 pm)DonC said:
Why do you keep saying that CA is power starved? Other than the situation created by Enron in 2001 this hasn’t been the case.
During the last few years there has been the occasional crunch for a couple of hours during the summer but that has been related to the drought in the Pacific Northwest. In the summer CA draws power from the NW; in the winter the NW draws power from CA. But the NW hasn’t had its normal excess power because of the drought.
===================
I say it because it is a fact.
The fact your lights haven’t gone out in your house for awhile does not indicate robust power generation or efficient streaming of supply.
California is the worst state in the union for power, and supply. It pulls power from every state around it, and it shows in the price premium users pay…and even then in some areas, it is not enough.
Several states are shipping every spare kW they have: Over 20% of its power comes from coal burning plants in Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado and Montana…and another chunk from hydropower in Oregon, Washington State and the Hoover Dam near Las Vegas. Those states are left to deal with the fallout of California’s demands. On top of all that, new power prjects are shot down constantly because of California’s eco-consciousness of ‘not in my state’ mentality, or because they hate windmills/turbines…why the frig does Texas a billion of them to lead the nation in production?
California has tons of people, that is just a reality, and they have/had a massive ‘well-heeled’ population that likes to feel good about themselves, and have the ‘principles’ to match…but they have no energy, no water, no oil…and now, no money.
Random quotes/links backing up my position:
“State auditors announced that California’s energy mandates pose a “high risk” to the state’s economy, and the California Energy Commission warned of power shortages in 2011 if current trends continue. ”
http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legislative_issues/federal_issues/hot_issues_in_congress/energy/Californias-Utopian-Renewable-Energy-Mandates-Already-Threatening-Power-Shortages-and-Higher-Utility-Bills.htm
“The state of California has mandated that 33% of their power come from renew-ables…That’s why they are broke and issuing IOU’s. Not content with setting goals that are impossible from a cost and physical perspective, the state has passed new regulations to curtail existing practices. Once-through cooling sucks water out the the ocean and rivers and discharges massive amounts of warmed water, supposedly harming some aquatic life. Ending this practice will close 19 plants that produce as much as 15% of the state’s power. The tab to get to the 2020 goal, $114 billion and growing. Federal and state tax dollars are going to subsidize the alternative power.
The result of all this. The state of California will run itself out of power as early as 2011. Utility bills will skyrocket. More businesses and taxpayers will exit California replaced by more illegal Mexicans. The state deficit will grow and the state will be asking for help from Washington.”
http://www.nosmokeblown.com/?tag=california-power-shortage
“State legislators in California are drafting regulations that may prevent California retailers from selling power-sucking big screen TVs by 2011. But the California Energy Commission is looking for ways to relieve the strain on the power grid. Officials say the standards, once fully in place, would reduce the state’s annual energy needs by an amount equivalent to the power consumed by 86,400 homes”
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/fresh-greens/2009/01/06/california-may-ban-big-screen-tvs.html
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:27 pm)Right on bro. Test drives ain’t what they used to be. Don’t think you will be able to rent new hot vehicles like Camaro or Volt though. I don’t like dealers and would much prefer a Factory Outlet approach. Each Factory outlet would carry ALL models for test drives only, orders placed directly to factory by buyer. Delivery is directly to owner in a timely manner without the outrageous union delivery charges !
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Jul 21st, 2009 (12:28 pm)That’s not quite fair since the Volt is in the prototyping phase.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:32 pm)I agree with you that all car dealers are greedy slimeballs and just want to soak the consumer for all they can get on a vehicle purchase – and they don’t give a whit about making a vehicle purchase enjoyable. Quite the opposite. GM knows that this is a terrible way to do retail.
If it were any other industry these slimeballs would either be out of business or be arrested. Why is it tolerated in the auto industry?
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Jul 21st, 2009 (12:33 pm)IF the car you want is available in a rental fleet then that is a great idea!
They are not always though.
If I am serious about the car the sales guy gets informed that the test drive will be a bit longer than they expected. Simple.
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+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:37 pm)One more thing on California’s “solar”, you said:
“CA has a good record on power for a couple of reasons. One is that the mix of power is fairly green: a lot of the baseline is nuclear and the 500MW of rooftop solar installations generates a lot of power during those hot summer afternoons. ”
========================
Yeah, and one piece of legislation shut down the the Rancho Seco Nuclear Generating Station and ‘converted’ it to solar.
You know what it produces today? 4MW. As a nuclear station it was capable of producing up to 913 MW….which is more than double of all of California’s solar today. And that is the problem right there, ‘feel good’ over substance. It has taken TWENTY years to get half the capacity of one felled nuclear station back online. The only thing keeping California totally off the ledge, and another doubling of its citizen’s electric bill, is the economic crisis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Seco_Nuclear_Generating_Station
Don’t get me wrong, I love solar, heck I’ve done the solar system thing myself before I moved…and I will do it again, but it is decades away from being any viable answer for California.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:38 pm)It is time for Factory Direct ordering. GM can contract Apple to setup a very intuitive web portal to all models. A few chosen dealerships will be converted to Factory Outlets that carry every model and make for TEST DRIVES ONLY. All orders will be processed by Apple with GM getting a majority of purchase price (Apple will take its customary 30%). This is the way forward folks. Service centers will be created in already established shops (lube, tire, brakes, etc) around the country and will be open 24hrs a day. BTW, each service center will include free loaners as well as an on-site restaurant with free all-you-can-eat-while-you-wait food.
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+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:40 pm)It has been said time and again that GM has too many dealers.
The dealers that continue to rip off customers should lose their franchise on the spot when caught.
Quick and GOOD for the customer AND GM.
The crooked dealer can become a used car dealer (where their skills seem to be the standard scummy issue) or go bankrupt, who cares.
The end result is a dealer network that is on a leash and can then mostly be trusted to do the right thing.
GM for their part need to step up and fix problems properly.
Happy customers tell friends and come back next time.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (12:46 pm)You’re in luck. eBay may already be building a pre-order / waiting list .
A nominal deposit (< $100) may be needed to HOLD the vehicle (in this case a Volt SS) of your choice. A guaranteed delivery date would be given at the time of your order. This is the new GM / eBay alliance at work for you.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (12:48 pm)…well, I hear the earth is going to open up and you are going to slip into the ocean at any moment. (=
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Jul 21st, 2009 (12:50 pm)Thats bad news Capt, I’m sorry to hear that.
This part of you?
http://globalnation.inquirer.net/news/breakingnews/view/20090721-216496/15-pay-cut-for-California-state-workers
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Jul 21st, 2009 (12:52 pm)Anyway, here are those customer reviews that you like so much.
You have to have an account at Amazon and actually own the product to post a review.
http://www.amazon.com/Zero-Motorcycles-Zero-X-Sport-Electric-Motorcycle/product-reviews/B001SK3GHA/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:01 pm)OK…
So you want to add 30% to the price of a Volt…
Errr, no.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:03 pm)It has been along time since they have had to pay MSRP+ for a vehicle from GM, heeh…this is one of those rare cases.
(Unless someone is planning on having a low VIN# Volt and Camaro in the driveway…but that seems like a bit of a oxymoron).
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:11 pm)those are the bad salesman, and they can be nasty.. there are some good ones out there but you have to ask around to find them.. ask your friends if they recommend a particular salesman..
We do lots of research on cars before buying them, why not research the salesman also?
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:13 pm)“I mean, seriously, what service does any dealer do to help you buy a car, besides convince weak minded people to buy a car they didn’t want.”
We would all be driving boring 2 year old Corollas if pushy car salesmen were not around.
BTW, stripers DO like me..
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:15 pm)Because you are deleting all current GM overhead (union delivery, state taxes, advertising, payment processing, etc) you would actually see a cheaper Volt. Don’t let Apple’s 30 percent fool you. GM only has to assembly the car and Apple will take care of everything else. Each service center will also have a GENIUS BAR. What more do you need.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:17 pm)Ebay would have to cut their fees for cars.. the advantage is that you could have all the manufacturers in one web site.. if pigs could fly we would be able to buy cars from all over the world, never mind pollution, safety and other trade barriers.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:18 pm)You would trust Lyle to mess around and handle your brain, definitely you would trust him enough to buy a car
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:19 pm)Mmmmm. Nicole Jacobs. Mmmmm. [said in your best Homer Simpson voice]
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:20 pm)You are right, but isn’t it sad that it is necessary?
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:22 pm)It depends on the perception, though. It’s one thing if the auction looks like dealer is trying to screw a customer, it’s another thing if the auction looks like a release party for a hot new product. I hate to say it, but the PR people might earn their keep by making the distinction — and by knowing exactly when to stop and sell at MSRP.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:23 pm)Wow. Were you choking on your own laughter as you typed this post? What kind of car dealer crook apologist crud is this? “Local dealers make major investments on behalf of the manufacturer and the consumer.” Yeah, riiiiiiiiight.
“Volkswagen of America has gotten complaints that some dealers are adding a significant markup on the new and desirable model” . . .
“The dealers are eager to make some money on the new cars while VW is concerned that customers may just look elsewhere because they feel they’re being treated unfairly.”
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/01/vw-dealer-relationship-souring-over-jetta-tdi/
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:24 pm)Actually Apple would have a large say in the final price, thereby lowering it considerably. Look at the music industry, if it wasn’t for Steve Jobs everyone would be paying two(2) bucks a song by now. Apple knows how to contain prices. It is basically this simple:
Buy your Volt at the Apple Store for $29,500 with NO HIDDEN FEES and a 150,000 mile owner-transferrable warranty.
The old model would be to walk in to a local dealer and negotiate a price (already set to minimum by manager of say $42,000) and try to leave with your shirt still and your pockets not on empty.
This is an easy choice.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:24 pm)I’ll be doing a Ford Ranger next spring. I don’t know what VDC range you will have but stay above 96VDC. For a car of that size use a Warp9 with a less expensive Curtis controller up to 96 – 144VDC with a 600A max or 750A. I would higly reconsider the Gell Cells and they will not get you 80-100 miles maybe @ NEV speeds. By next spring, Li cells will have dropped close enough to upgrade. A 100AH 3.6VDC cell is $110.00
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:25 pm)Are they going to put you on a waiting list to bid?
lol…
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:25 pm)I purchased 2 vehicles from out-of-state when I was living in Virginia. It was only marginally more work than buying a vehicle in-state.
There can be some gotchas with respect to sales tax, though. Usually your home state will take the difference between the sales tax that you paid and the tax that you would have paid if you’d bought the car in your home state. So, I left the Virginia DMV several hundred dollars poorer each time I registered a vehicle that I bought out-of-state. Grumble.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:26 pm)Tell that to Congress that’s currently trying to force GM and Chrysler to reinstate their cut dealers.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124818970199168849.html
Right now the dealers still have all the cards.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:28 pm)PLEASE…
This would be about the best way to keep me from buying anything.
I ended up in an apple store because a friend had a dead ipod, the “genius” could barely turn on the ipod…
The price premium was rediculous.
PASS
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:29 pm)Related today, re: Volt and profitability from Tom Stephens at GM yesterday (just thought it was interesting):
Stephens says GM should be able to make money on the Chevrolet Volt rechargeable electric car, but not in the first generation where volumes are low and prices are high. The Volt, due in showrooms by November of 2010, has a lithium-ion battery that can carry the car 40 miles on a single charge from a home outlet before a small internal combustion engine kicks in.
Generally, it takes three generations or several years of a new technology for prices to come down and sales volumes to go up, allowing the company to make money, Stephens said.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j-f5_ypyhH2xMDRDuDrOdkxRdOZgD99IF1AG0
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:32 pm)Related today, re: Volt and profitability from Tom Stephens at GM yesterday (just thought it was interesting):
Stephens says GM should be able to make money on the Chevrolet Volt rechargeable electric car, but not in the first generation where volumes are low and prices are high. The Volt, due in showrooms by November of 2010, has a lithium-ion battery that can carry the car 40 miles on a single charge from a home outlet before a small internal combustion engine kicks in.
Generally, it takes three generations or several years of a new technology for prices to come down and sales volumes to go up, allowing the company to make money, Stephens said.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j-f5_ypyhH2xMDRDuDrOdkxRdOZgD99IF1AG0
P.S.: Wanted to say good post!
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:35 pm)That’s my better half getting that 3 day’s furlough. I work for an “Undisclosable Govt Agency”……lol
But we are still getting furloughed plus no COLA (cost of living adjustment) for the next 2 yrs plus no sellout of vac time anymore and last but not least, more layoffs come September.
And I left private indistry because of this, sheeesh.
Getta govt job everyone tells, they’re safe….
10 years later……..LAYOFFS!
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:36 pm)Capt, you’ll be putting in a Warp11 in the Ranger, though, right?
Warp9 wouldn’t quite cut it IMO for that size of vehicle.
It’d be great for the Geo/Suzuki. Or, if you can find an Isuzu car from the 1980s. They weigh about 1,000 pounds (just kidding – they’re very light).
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:37 pm)I agree. GM should be doing this on their website. What they should do is have a web page with numbers that represent the Volt in the order of manufacture, 1-500 let’s say, and names next to the numbers, and after the names, a price. Everyone can try to outbid each other because they can see exactly what other people have bid. Give everyone 2 weeks to bid and see where it goes. There would be rich movie stars and celebrities, businesses who want the green cred of driving one of the first Volts, rich car collectors like Jay Leno, and foreign auto makers trying to reverse engineer and who knows who all trying to get one. They’d make a fortune.
Any 20 year old computer science major could do this for GM in a few hours and GM could pocket all of the extra money.
GM needs to work out a way to do this through dealers somehow just to satisfy any contracts, but just have the vehicles shipped directly to the buyers.
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+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:41 pm)It likely would require that the dealerships sign new franchise contracts.
(Which likely are required to apply to NEWGM in any case.)
Dealer Markup of any sort = loss of franchise.
One strike and you are out, no BS.
It would only take a couple of crooked dealers to be dumped for the rest of them to come onside.
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+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:44 pm)OH MY GOD…
You actually said a LOWER price from Apple.
I don’t know what you are smoking but please don’t drive until you come down.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:45 pm)Well, this is the death of an affordable Volt. Time to start watching the competition closer. It was nice while it lasted.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:46 pm)Indirectly yes it is.
In CA it’s all horrible. Everyon blames the “Governator” or the legislature but they are only half of the problem. The other half is poor biz practices and inefficient methods of operation. I can go on but I don’t want to hijack the thread like I sometimes do.
Jus keepin my head up!!!
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:48 pm)The Volt price has not changed. The ebay thing will be a fad which will only make sense when the Volt is very limited. Once production starts up in force in year 2, the Volts should be available at the dealers.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:50 pm)Totally agree. I stopped buying there 4yrs ago.
Interesting to search through some times but won’t buy there anymore.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (1:54 pm)My point is that GM is looking to sell the first Volts on eBay. If they do, the waiting list is irrelevant and people will bid up the prices. There are plenty of rich people out there that will pay whatever it takes to get the car regardless of their needs. That will knock most of the enthusiasts out of the running.
The “quoted” price is also irrelevant (and so is the waiting list if they go this way). That’s ok, GM won’t be the only game in town.
Either way, their message is not enthusiast friendly. The more stories Lyle posts, the clearer it becomes that this forum is not what GM is looking to satisfy. As we get closer to release it will be crystal clear. Get into the new line because this one is not going anywhere.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (2:00 pm)You would still be driving an older car is a salesman hadn’t duped you into another payment schedule?
You couldn’t just decide to buy another car on your own? You need to be taken advantage of at a dealership to get into another car?
Seriously? And you admit you let pushy salesman steer you into a deal? Gosh, you’re more gullible than I imagined.
Since you think strippers like you for your “personality” I totally understand why you enjoy getting raped by car dealers. I’m talking to the wall basically with you.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (2:02 pm)Why wait, I think the EEStor powered Zenn will be released BEFORE the Volt goes on sale.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (2:02 pm)Jeesh,
You don’t get it, you can’t research a salesman, because they are a salesman. They only care about how much money they can claw out of your sorry ass. Using the veil of they care about you to do it.
You fall hook line & sinker when you buy something form them.
Sadly, most don’t have the mental capacity to realize this.
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+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:06 pm)I share your concerns.
Bob, please think this all the way through.
The best solution is to beat the dealers into shape.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (2:06 pm)Knowledgeable sales people? lol, they don’t exist. They just read off pamphlets and reiterate known facts. They may only seem they know something because you as a consumer never bothered to look it up yourself.
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Jul 21st, 2009 (2:09 pm)Typical of the idiotic sales team. If you sell cars you should be abreast of the new technology, especially as big as the Volt is.
He’ll just read off the phamplet when given one. That’ll be the new Volt guru at the dealership, the first one to read the phamplet.
Typical slovenly salesperson.
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