GM recently announced it was forming a new partnership experiment with eBay Motors in California. The experiment is designed to see if this method of online buying can help GM be more successful in a state where sales have been traditionally slow, and if it works across the nation.
It seemed an obvious question to ask Chevrolet Brand Manager Ed Peper if GM might try using this technique to sell the first Chevy Volts. After all since those cars are being sold at a loss and demand will likely far outstrip supply, conceivably it could be a method for GM to actually make profit on those sales
Peper said of the eBay partnership, “in the interest of moving fast, and Fritz is really mandating we move as fast as we can on everything we’re doing, that’s something we’re looking at as a test here coming up.”
“It will be hopefully in the August – September timeframe and its again a test that we’re going to try in California using eBay,” he said. “We’ve got more details to work out on that and we’ll let those go at an appropriate time.”
When asked if the experiment works out whether could GM use the technique as a way of selling the first Volts at a profit Peper said “Exactly right.”
“We actually have been thinking about that same application to be able to do that, It something that’s definitely crossed our mind,” he said. “You could even have an auction on the vehicles. We use this already with certified used vehicles and its actually worked out very well. Dealers use it a lot.”
He also added “If it works in California its going to work just about anywhere.”
This entry was posted on Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 at 6:57 am and is filed under Launch, Marketing. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+10
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:00 am)The “Buy it Now” price ?
$29,995.00
Sign me up !
-2
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:00 am)Ebay as it works today is not good for selling cars, you need dealers to motivate people, to inject some emotion into an otherwise fully financial decision. Ebay should be used to list every car, new or used, that a dealer has for sale.. in an easily searchable format.
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:01 am)“After all since those cars are being sold at a loss and demand will likely far outstrip supply, conceivably it could be a method for GM to actually make profit on those sales.”
My thoughts, exactly.
Also: Nice to hear that Fritz has a sense of urgency about everything. How un-GM of him.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:10 am)Who would actually be selling the vehicles? I thought automakers weren’t allowed to sell directly to consumers. And if that’s the case, the entity who would stand to profit would be the selling dealer and not GM. (I’m assuming eBay maintains it’s broker stance and does not qualify as a dealer in the traditional/legal sense.)
I could see a partnership between GM, eBay, and local dealers where GM agreed to supply the dealer with vehicles and those vehicles would only be sold via eBay, but I don’t see GM getting extra profit from the deal. Unless, that is, they create a special, higher priced (higher profit) trim line for the eBay version.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:14 am)As long as GM creates a short run of Volts in a “signature series”, then an auction would definitely work. After that, Herm’s idea of a dealer listing all their vehicles has merit.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:20 am)I bought a 4WD ’92 Jeep Cherokee through eBay Motors several years ago. The owner included numerous excellent photos at eBay Motors showing the superb condition of the Jeep’s interior & exterior, photos which I was able to use a few years later when I finally sold it on autotrader.com. Given the availability of the detailed photos, the CarFax on the vehicle, and eBay Motor’s buyer protection measures, I found it to be an excellent buying experience. No regrets whatsoever!
It will be very interesting to see how it works out for GM & their buyers.
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:23 am)Great Idea. I think it will work.
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:30 am)Why don’t you just sell a little model of the Volt on e-bay! This sounds like the new deal from the NEW GM. Pretty tacky. I still don’t see anything at the GM dealerships on the VOLT. Are they part of the NEW GM?
What happened to the old days when GM would have a few big trucks taking a copy of the vehicle to different cities to promote the vehicle. You want to sell it on the internet and that is all we have seen about the VOLT. It sure is hard to touch, set in and get to know it but, I guess it is good for the Computer Rangers.
+9
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:34 am)I’m guessing “Buy it Now” around $49,995 at the start, lol.
——
Actually, ebay Volts sound pretty good for some people…not so much for others.
If you don’t live in the most ‘most plug-in ready’ early rollout locations (like power starved California), now all you need is some extra cash and a addy in California and you can be assured of getting a very early release Volt, no hassles at all.
No more pesky putting your name on a waiting list to pay MSRP (once you hunt down the participating dealers) and then watching GM deliver ‘inventory’ cars around the country before you get yours shipped, tediously pestering your local dealer about shipment and tracking the VIN through the build.
/now you can ‘incentivitize’ GM to sell you a car, lol.
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:35 am)If the car is sold at a loss, wouldn’t it be better for GM not to sell any, then they wouldn’t have to book it as a loss. After all, if a product is sold at a loss, it’s hard to make it up in volume. Just build them then recycle them. Still provides lots of jobs and the productions costs will be covered by gov’t anyway. Win, win for everybody… except for the few remaining saps actually working and paying taxes….
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:37 am)Got pay-pal or Visa, whatever’ll please ya…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKtlK7sn0JQ
+5
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:44 am)Sorry, but I need to smell the “rich Corinthian leather” (yeah, right), or at least pop the hood (lottsa new stuff in there) before I write the check.
I guess I’m old fashioned (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:47 am)That seems like a google product not an ebay product. If we are just talking about indexing and searching
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:47 am)Why Ebay? Why pay the overhead. If you can sell cars online, sell them online from chevy.com. Some advertisements around the web will pull people in.
GM can find some college kid to set up an auction site. Ebays cut would be too much. Sell online and then deliver through the closest dealer and pay that dealer the sales fees that you would have paid Ebay.
+7
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:47 am)I wonder how the dealers feel about GM scooping up the ‘premium’ pure profit dollars on a new product that historically would have gone to them? Corvetteguy knows what I am talking about…like that extra 5-10K on each ‘early’ Camaro they sold.
Sidenote: Why does GM need ebay at all to hock new Volts? Why not just convert one of the 50 sites and resources they have going now to a auction site, or add the app to the main site?
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:47 am)They’ll set up an in house dealer called “GM Direct” (or something similar) to sell these vehicles on Ebay.
I think it’s a good idea. More access to buy but, at higher initial prices.
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:52 am)“Ebay auction” and “mass produced” seem like polar opposites to me, but it might work at the start for low rate initial production.
I’m also worried that it means the price will stay well above my threshold for a long time.
Probably wouldn’t be a “buy it now” price at all, just a minimum bid.
GM should auction off each production slot individually – similar to how big airframers (Boeing, etc.) sell airplanes. Maybe put the first 100 slots up for sale.
I wonder how many non-Californians will finagle their way into buying one from a Californian dealer. Will be watching closely…
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:02 am)I would hope that E-bay sales would not be exclusive, that a dealer near me would at least have a demonstrator (not for sale) and a waiting list where I could plunk down $500, for metallic light brown Volt.
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:06 am)I prefer the Amazon model, with user reviews, “buy it used” features and so on but I think Ebay would be more popular… you may be right about Google.
How about you search for the particular car model you want, and then the dealers bid to sell it to you.. that would not be too popular with dealers
-1
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:08 am)Well I think its a desperation move. Wouldn’t you think the first 20 cars sold on an auction would be buyers from people affiliated with foreign car manufactures for reverse engineering?
The Volt would not be a car for a typical city commuter since you would not want to run the charging engine all the time for distances greater then the 40 mile round trip. I for one drive 120 miles a day for the last 20 years so I am looking for a diesel or the next step in storage technology. The Volt is a great first step compared to the moon walk but it has a limited appeal due to constraints on technology.
I kind of see In the next 12-15 years electronic devices not using modern batteries. IT could be grids many trillions of nano super capacitors embedded or grown into the chassis plastics and composites replacing the battery. If the light weight chassis gets damaged one could imagine much like computer memory the ability to block out parts of the bad area and continue to function fine from load balancing by other parts of the car.
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:09 am)Thank God for car dealers, otherwise we would all be driving used 2 year old Corollas.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:11 am)From someone who has purchased in excess of 30 GM products over my lifetime, I’ll pass on ebay an Volt for that matter, if they decide to go this way.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:12 am)The use of eBay will only create an inflated price due to the bidding process. GM should just set a price and let people decide if the price is right. I would rather buy a car from a dealer that will have a knowledgeable sales person for these new cars.
+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:20 am)I buy all my cars on eBay ! It Rocks.
It’s good to see GM finally moving to the 21st century.
Nothing finer than winning that Volt bid on the bay.
eBay is already one of the largest seller of automobiles in the entire world. Welcome aboard GM.
+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:23 am)THIS site would be a great site to have a link to buy Volts.
Be well,
Tagamet
+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:24 am)eBay FTW !
-2
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:26 am)Speaking of tests, how does one go about taking a test drive of a vehicle purchased on ebay?
I mean, whats the point?
You’re going to have to go to a dealer to pick the thing up anyway.
ebay cannot replace the dealership, especially when it comes to taking a vehicle you’re about to purchase for a test drive.
In fact, I will not buy a vehicle sight unseen.
I MUST take it for a test drive!
=D~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:35 am)Nothing wrong with eBay getting a cut. It’s a lot better than those greedy dealerships and their massive markups and add-ons. Car Dealers Suck.
BTW, dealers do not employ salesman, they are known as scam artist on their employment contract.
+6
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:42 am)I would go one step further and make eBay the “exclusive” seller of the Volt (at least in the U.S. where it is used by everyone).
One thing about eBay, if your product is bad word spreads fast. So GM must have a lot of confidence in their product.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:46 am)The problem with high ticket, high publicity items is then number of bad bids that get submitted. I see it all the time, auction is on the news for something on Ebay, pretty soon the item goes from say $2,000 to $4,000,000 because of bad bids. Causes all sorts of problems, re listings, canceled bids etc. Seems like a disaster waiting to happen to me.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:48 am)No need for test drive with eBay. They have all the photos and videos you will need to make an informed decision. If that is not enough, current and previous owners can post feedback.
You sir are showing your age. Are you a blue hair ?
Test Drive is an extremely old school method. You need to change with the times Bubba.
+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:52 am)Not True. You can already order cars on the Internet and the Dealer will bring it (an paperwork) to your house. You do not have to set foot in a dealership. It sounds like you are a little out of date.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:52 am)“He also added “If it works in California its going to work just about anywhere.””
—————————————-
I think that statement does not ring as true today as it did a year or two ago. Hopefully the rest of the nation will not continue following California’s lead. You can see where it has gotten California with all the problems it now has.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:53 am)You won’t find a knowledgeable sales person at a dealer anytime soon. At least not technical, practical knowledge. Just read this site and you’ll know way more than anyone at the dealers (based on my personal experience). They do have plenty of knowlege about finance options though if you’re looking for that.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:59 am)OK, maybe I’m a bit old fashioned but I have come to associate ebay with overpriced crap and outright lies in the auctions.
Please send my Volt to my local dealer.
I say using ebay is a poor choice.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:01 am)It would be good for GM and good PR.
Without eBay sales all of the Volts in the first batch will go to those either closest geographically or those connected to the dealership in some way.
Dealer markup would jack up the price to way above MSRP anyway. I seem to recall that’s what happened with the New Beetle and the Mini. At least this way the extra would go directly to GM and not to some slimy greedy car dealer types.
+8
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:02 am)According to the latest research (RDA Group) Ford Motor Co. now makes the highest quality cars. This is not a typo. Ford has overtaken Toyota in the latest survey. Also Ford has tied Toyota in customer satisfaction (80%) in the same survey.
I invite you to consider a Ford for your next purchase. Our Ford Fusion Hybrid will appeal to many a Volt enthusiast.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:02 am)You mean, like this?
http://www.amazon.com/Zero-Motorcycles-Zero-X-Sport-Electric-Motorcycle/dp/B001SK3GHA
+10
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:04 am)“you need dealers to motivate people, to inject some emotion into an otherwise fully financial decision”
Absolutley not, dealers are the most painful experience in buying a car. You pay for all these dealerships by paying too much at them. Lousy service from dealers who scrape by is what makes them the achilles heel of the auto industry.
If we all could just buy from the manufacturer, we would all be better off.
The dealer is hands down the worst part about buying a car.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:05 am)I understand GM’s desire to make a profit on its Volt vehicles, but it would seem selling the first ones over eBay is not keeping its commitment to its potential customers who would never purchase a vehicle over the web. I would have to assume their intent is to offer a few early sales over the web but to offer regular dealership sales later in November 2010. I wish them luck, but I for one would not take the “bait”. First of all, I could not afford to “bid” for a vehicle with a starting price of around $40,000. But that’s just me.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:06 am)I’m with you Guy!
I must see and drive any car prior to purchase.
Pictures do not cut it since I actually DRIVE my cars.
Pictures only might be fine for those who buy on image rather than substance but that isn’t good enough as far as I am concerned.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:08 am)No hands on test drive = many fewer sales.
This is a BAD idea.
+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:11 am)This makes perfect sense.
Since it is well known that only a very few “select” dealerships will be allowed to sell the Volt and most people will NOT live near one. By using eBay everyone gets a fair shake at an order. Sound fair to me. Actually it sounds too good. Where’s the kicker here ?
If there is no catch then I applaud GM for this decision.
+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:11 am)That’s right. And Buick has recently tied with Jaguar for the number one spot in JD Powers long term reliability. Goodbye Lexus. This could be one reason the Chinese have made Buick the top selling car in their country.
Americans are suckers for buying Japanese cars now. In this economy we nee to keep all the money we can within our own shores.
And please don’t tell me “well my Japanese car is made here in America, by American workers.” The PROFITS go to Japan Inc. And the jobs were not created – they were just shifted from American car companies to Japanese (and other foreign) car companies.
-1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:13 am)I can see it now…
“YOU ARE BIDDING ON a picture of A NEW CHEVY VOLT!”
BUY IT NOW PRICE $ 40000…
scambay is so full of crap over the last few years I long ago stopped buying anything there…
Please tell me the new GM is NOT a scumbag ebay seller… I find this terribly depressing…
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:13 am)If GM is motivated strictly on making a profit on the first batch of Volts, why not ship a few hundred Volts to California dealers but retain title to the vehicles. Let the dealer add a markup they think will sell in their area based on interest. GM and the dealer could then split the markup.
Or why not just let the dealers hold local auctions on the Volts and let everyone interested place bids. High bid gets the car and GM and the dealer could split the price over sticker. It would not have to be a 50/50 split.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:14 am)Lyle I would trust WAY before ebay, and I have never met the man!
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:15 am)Absolutely.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:15 am)Just wondering, Could GM use E-bay to presell a Volt and then offer it to the highest over normal net to the dealers in the general area?
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:16 am)How much would eBay make on the sale of a $40,000 Volt?
+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:18 am)I take it you stand outside your car and try to pickup ‘chicks’ eh?
Those of us who actually USE our cars drive them first.
You are acting like a fool if you spend $40+k sight unseen.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:18 am)Good idea to get the most bang for the product. I have to wait for gen 2 because my income got furloghed for the next 18 months. This sucks.
+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:20 am)I was thinking the same thing statik. The dealers can not get the cars and then list them on Ebay and make an extra $5k or $10k. The profits go from the dealer to GM …. not that that is a bad thing. I mean they are the ones shelling out all the money to build these cars at a loss …. no wait that is the US tax payers …. never mind.
Hey GM, while you are at it why not just sell all the cars on Ebay or a GM based web sight. You have 1 auto dealer per city over 35,000 people. (at least 8 within a 40 miles radius of my house) That dealer has 1 of every model on the lot that you can test drive, see options and will service all models. You figure out what you want and go onto the web sight to search for your car. You find it, bid on it and then have the car shipped to your house. (I can get a car shipped to my house for a lot less then what GM charges). This will eliminate a ton of jobs, cut costs and make a profit for the new Governmental Motors.
– the preceding is dripping with sarcasm.
+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:21 am)As in all other things, you can’t condemn every dealer based on experience with one or more dealers. There are a lot of very good dealers out there. It is up to you to find a good one and keep them straight by being knowledgeable yourself.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:22 am)The first 100 sounds about right.
The big money would be for the very first one. I wonder if GM would actually be willing to sell it, and not reserve it for Lutz or someone like that. If some pre-production Volts ended up on the road there could be hard feelings.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:23 am)______________________________________________________
Amazon.com would be a much better and more logical place for GM to retial new cars.
eBay is OK for pre-owned cars but does not make sense for new.
______________________________________________________
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:23 am)I fail to see the down side of getting up to 1/3 of your daily 120 mile commute gas free.
But I do see Batterys as a stop gap measure till some form of induction from the road is developed and then even E-REV will be a thing of the past.
+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:25 am)GM + eBay = More Sales
If this proves successful then I can see more models going the eBay route and eventually the dealers getting squeezed out. This would be fine with me. The only reason you cannot do a complete sale on the Net is because of antiquated laws to protect union workers in many states. It time to pull the auto industry into the new world order. BTW, in many countries you can order cars online with no problems.
I see future dealers located in mall parking lots as circus clowns where you go to test drive a car for a buck or two only and you must actually place your order online directly from the factory. This bypasses the greedy middleman that has been artificially inflating auto costs for decades.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:28 am)I am not sure if I like this, but at least I bid what I am willing to pay. Not the dealer mark ups for new vehicles. I hear dealers want $500 to $2500 over MSRP for the Camaro. How much mark up on a limited production car like the first year Chevy Volt?
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:28 am)eBay sounds interesting. Will there be combined shipping on multiple purchases?
I wonder if MLM is really the way to go.
… buy a starter pack of ten Volts and have ten of your friends do the same and ten of their friends do the same and ten of their friends….
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:31 am)Volume discounts for sure !!!
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:33 am)Gen 1 of any almost any new product makes little or no profit.
Once the product is in the field they find out where the redundancies are and they ‘cost reduce’ the production costs to make the profit margin larger.
Manufacturing 101 my friend.
+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:37 am)Are you kidding me?? Photos, videos and written descriptions tell you NOTHING about the mechanical condition of a car. I have bought dozens of used cars and trucks in my time, and I would never buy a used car sight unseen unless it was the last one of it’s kind or something. If you are willing to pay too much and accept “little surprises” when you get your car, then I guess eBay is OK for you.
-4
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:38 am)That’s a bummer Cap’n…
Personally ebay gets none of my money, so hopefully this is just a lead out ‘thing’.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:40 am)Statik, actually they can’t sell the car this way. It’s against the law. What GM has already said is that they will sell the car on eBay but the buyer must go to a dealer to pickup the car, and pay all additional fees. The dealer is not cut out of the loop. This is Federal Law. The dealer may give a discount because there is little time spent with the customer, but then again, they may charge full price on all fees to stick it to the buyer. It’ll be interesting to see how it works out.
+6
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:43 am)The Dealer markup on a Volt will be HUGE. Since only 10,000 Volts will be made from Nov 2010 thru Jul 2011 they will jack it up as much as the market will bear. IMO, eBay would keep the total cost lower for most customers. Look for battery packs (used from wrecks, refurbs, and stolen) to be readily available on eBay as well. This is a win-win situation.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:46 am)And where would you get your warranty work completed?
Where would you find a qualified Volt mechanic?
I get that you have had bad experiences at car dealerships and you are NOT alone. BUT to remove access to an actual person through the sales and support process is just crazy talk.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:47 am)Not really. Many dealers have demonstrators that you can test drive. Then you bid. When/if you win, you notify the dealer and a car is placed on order for you. Just try and buy a Camaro today. Most dealers can’t get enough in stock because they are selling so fast, but usually they have at least one on hand for a test drive. My niece picked up her Honda on eBay over seven years ago. The car is still running. You can buy quaility online, you just have to adjust how you do your research and validation that you really want that particular car/make/model.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:47 am)Or for that matter, how much would a dealer make on the sale of a $40,000 Volt? The “invoice” figure does not reflect the actual financial arrangement between GM and various dealers. The whole organization is shrouded in secrecy, sort of like the Mafia.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:48 am)This is definately a problem. The dealer network needs more oversight without doubt..
The NEW GM should go to a set pricing model (much like Saturn has/had).
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:53 am)Based on the bankruptcy, the new GM should be able to sell direct to the consumer without worrying about auto dealer protection laws.
+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:53 am)Does this mean we have to add 2% to the MSRP of the Volt to cover Ebay’s fees?
+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:54 am)Why stop at eBay. I would love to order my next car using my iPhone/iPod. Apple could easily setup an Auto Store via iTunes. There are hundreds of millions of users worldwide that can place orders using this method now. GM should seize the moment and contact Apple ASAP.
Until that happens I will settle for ordering a Volt using my eBay client on my iPhone if I must but I won’t be a happy camper until I can purchase directly thru an online Apple Auto Store. Let’s Do This !!!
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:54 am)A Fusion hybrid doesn’t even come close to what the Volt is going to do for me. My office is exactly 15 miles from my house (30 miles round trip). My future Volt won’t use a drop of gasoline. Your Fusion will. I see why Ford needs to sell cars though. Since GM has wiped out the UAW’s old pay scale GM will be able to build cars much cheaper than Ford. Ford is stuck in the old UAW pay scale. Do you really think not filing BK by Ford was such a good idea? Ford has also already tapped its last loan to keep the company running. Once that money is gone what will Ford do? They will run to the government. Some predict that we won’t be out of this mess until 2015. GM can now be profitable selling 1/3rd fewer cars per year than Ford. This all should get very interesting.
-2
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:54 am)I think that eBay GM sales is a really bad idea. It’s cheesy pandering rather than real car sales. Trying desperately to gain some 21st century internet cred. All it will do is transfer the bad rep of the car dealer directly to GM. People really don’t like mark ups. eBay is just a system to help the buyer get a big mark up, it’s all about the seller, not the buyer.
Think about this GM, how many potential Toyota conquest sales are you going to lose when it becomes public knowledge that Volts are going for $60k – $70? That Prius buyer is going to buy another Prius instead. You pushed for government tax credits to help people be able to afford the Volt, and now you’re going to piss that away??!!
You want good will and good PR? Sell the Volt at the dealership and use what ever leverage you can to force the dealer to sell the Volt to anybody (no games or contests) at MSRP! Let people know that THIS is the New GM and that it’s safe to go back in the Chevy dealership. The sharks have been driven off and now it’s all happy dolphins. Build good will, don’t become online slime balls with dollar signs in your eyes.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:57 am)The very first will certainly be reserved. It’s hard to determine order of production with mass production though. Especially at the start when everything is subject to minor changes and tweaks. VIN numbers, production slots, and designations get mixed and switched in the mass of details moving from the last non production cars into the initial production vehicles.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:58 am)A reverse auction like Priceline would be an absolutely great idea. Hadn’t thought of this.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:00 am)The question is then, WHY is ebay required? The price is almost without exception higher there anyway! (Yes I have looked for things there, and I go elsewhere.)
If I’m at the dealership and I LIKE the test drive car why would I want to go to scumbay to order the car through a questionable process??
I’d just order the car through the dealer at an agreed price and be done.
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:08 am)OK Neal, now you did it, just what are our problems sir
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:08 am)The entire system runs this way, there is no need to demonize GM for the way all retail works.
If you KNOW the dealers price then you hammer them close to that number and the dealer dies. Despite stories to the contrary there ARE good dealerships out there who care about their customers.
I hope the NEW GM audits the dealer MUCH more often to ensure excellent service.
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:12 am)Might as well, that is what GM does to its suppliers. I wouldnt mind returning the favor.
-1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:13 am)Right!
Skip the ebay silliness and force MSRP.
Dealers for their part need to either re-train or DUMP the “slimeball” sales agents.
Make walking into a Chevy dealer a comfortable experience.
-4
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:14 am)Hi boys,
Are you reading to take the final step and purchase your shiny new Volt ? You know you deserve it. Sign up now and get your Chevrolet Volt here:
https://scgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?RegisterEnterInfo
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:29 am)Oh god… G(a)Mway…
It’s both funny and terribly sad at the same time!
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:30 am)It all comes down to out of pocket cost for the buyer.
If the price is initially high, then potential buyers will delay buying. Or perhaps look elsewhere.
What will stunt Volt sales?
1>Price over $40,000
2>Having to wait until tax time to redeem the green incentive of $7500
3>Initial buyers reporting less than expected performance and quality
4>Production line problems, UAW strikes, supplier delays .. ect
What will boost Volt sales?
1>Price under $40,000
2>Instant rebate of $7500
3>Smooth driving performance and reliability
4>5000 parts per month manufacturing capability
It’s as simple as this
=D~
+5
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:37 am)I’m not a fan of car dealerships either. I just wish I could buy a car straight from the manufacture and not deal with the stupid commission people. “Let me borrow your keys”, “let me talk to my manager”, “let me talk to my manager#2″, “let me talk to my manager #3″, etc. The only good experience I ever had with any dealership is when I bought my truck through carsdirect. When I went to the dealership to get my vehicle all I had to do was sign stuff. There was no questions on price and no hassles or pressure and best of all no idiot people wasting my time.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:39 am)Yeah, especially the “Currently unavailable” part !
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:43 am)If you don’t live in the most ‘most plug-in ready’ early rollout locations (like power starved California), now all you need is some extra cash and a addy in California and you can be assured of getting a very early release Volt, no hassles at all.
_________________________________________________
Why do you keep saying that CA is power starved? Other than the situation created by Enron in 2001 this hasn’t been the case.
During the last few years there has been the occasional crunch for a couple of hours during the summer but that has been related to the drought in the Pacific Northwest. In the summer CA draws power from the NW; in the winter the NW draws power from CA. But the NW hasn’t had its normal excess power because of the drought.
CA has a good record on power for a couple of reasons. One is that the mix of power is fairly green: a lot of the baseline is nuclear and the 500MW of rooftop solar installations generates a lot of power during those hot summer afternoons. Second and more importantly is that regulatory action has cut the increase in demand fairly dramatically. Years ago the regulators split distribution charges from power charges. As a consequence, the electric utilities have had no financial incentive to sell power and, surprise surprise, the increase in demand for electric power has been far below the national trend line.
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:44 am)I haven’t kept up with all the info for a while – Is the “WAITING LIST” Dead or Not?
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:49 am)At 400 lbs I would think that the shipping costs would be a little prohibative for “used” batteries on E-Bay. I’m not sure that I could even get one in the back of my Toyota pickup.
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:54 am)I visited my local GM dealership and asked a salesperson if they had any literature on the Volt and his reply was “What’s that?” He had never heard of the Volt and had no idea GM was building an electric car.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:56 am)You are joking?
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:58 am)For better or worse, Rob, your local dealer would agree with you!
Luckily, I have two local dealerships that I can permit myself to like, so I’m on your side on this one.
It’s really a shame though, that they’re so far behind the learning curve, regarding the Volt.
OMG my own post is giving me emotional whiplash!!
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:58 am)In my opinion you have highlighted the main problem with the dealership model. Some are terrible and some are excellent. I know of people who had such a problem with a dealership that they will not buy the brand. Some of these people don’t have much of an option. Maybe that is the only dealer around. The manufactures try to keep them in line but the dealerships find ways to game the system. One example: After buying my last truck(the one before my current) I was called from the manufacture about a purchase satisfaction survey. I never received one and it turns out my sales guy filled out the survey himself. Nice job keeping them in check… I did get to fill out the survey eventually.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:58 am)You forgot to mention that CA gets ALL of the power from Hoover Dam in Nevada. Nevada gets no power at all from Hoover Dam!
-1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:59 am)MSRP? Who the hell pays MSRP???
I won’t buy any car inlcuding a Volt unless I can get a decent deal, which usually means near invoice.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:59 am)Induction from the road? I think it will be cheaper to put overhead wires across the entire Interstate system and we’re done – similar to what electric trains have. That would cover over 99% of driving conditions (while you’re on an interstate, you also recharge your battery)
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:01 am)Anything they can do to make it easier to buy it is a good thing. Most people would rather have a root canal than set foot in a car dealership, so if they can take dealers out of the equation I say excellent idea GM. I’d rather all the profits go to GM rather than some dealer.
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:04 am)You have to give Ford credit, however, for the Fusion. This is a cool vehicle similar in size to the Malibu but with better mileage. Too bad GM could not make a hybrid Malibu with the Fusion mileage.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:06 am)If I’m unable to get a Volt when I need to buy my car, I will absolutely go with the Ford Fusion Hybrid. From everything I’ve heard, I believe that Ford had made amazing strides in product portfolio and quality and reliability of vehicles.
I also believe that Ford is the American car company that is in the best position to do a geniune turnaround. And Ford is every bit as crucial to the American economy as GM is. I wish you the best of luck. Unfortunately, I really think you’ll need it.
+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:06 am)>> There was no questions on price and no hassles or pressure
>> and best of all no idiot people wasting my time.
*sigh*… this part of your post makes me miss “Classic Saturn.” That is, Saturn during their first eight years or so.
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:08 am)It seems like many people on the list think the problem facing GM is selling Volts. As I see it, the problem is rationing the meager number they are planning to build. The chances of my getting one in CT before 2013 seems pretty slim. Why they aren’t emulating Tesla and selling production slots to minimize the chaos is unfathomable. Could also improve cash flow.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:18 am)Believe me, if GM could get the dealers to forgo their mark-ups, they would do it with the Camaro. It’s ultimately costing them sales at a time when they need all the sales they can get.
As far as the Volt–I think the e-bay thing is a desperate attempt at controlling the dealers. This way GM can’t be blamed for the inevitable mark-ups, the way they would be if dealers decided to charge $20,000 over sticker. You can’t blame them if the car is in demand! And they can get a cut, which they desperately need.
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:19 am)I think this is a great idea!
Using an auction to determine the price of the first few Volts strikes me as Very Efficient in economic terms. The people who want them the most will get them first, and will pay a market-negotiated premium for the privilege. My guess is that this will more progress toward paying off the R&D and tooling costs than any other product-launch strategy.
But, alas, I’ll be priced out of this market. I’ll have to wait until the supply increases to the point where it looks more like the market for a normal car. But that was going to have to wait until this point one way or another, since I live in a college town — so a mechanism that comes from efficient operation of the market and makes it more likely that I’ll get mine is somehow more satisfying.
This also might increase the perceived value of the car. If I buy my Volt for an idealized $29,999 sticker price, but I know that the car is desirable enough that someone else paid $80k for theirs, then I’ll probably be a lot happier about paying MSRP for a Chevy…
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:20 am)You can’t condemn them all, but you can condemn 95% of them. They are in sales. Salespeople do not give a shit about you in any way shape of form. You are merely a person they fool into giving money to them from a crafted charade they put on.
If you fall for the illusion that salespeople even remotely care for you, then you must also think strippers like you as well.
Salespeople only care about getting $$$ from you and will do anything for it. You don’t keep a dealer “in check” you merely fall for yet another crafty illusion that they care about you. They would do anything to keep the mindless consumer to spend more money, and people think that this is keeping a dealer in line?
That is you being lead around like a puppet.
Eliminating auto dealers would be the single best thing for ALL auto industries.
I mean, seriously, what service does any dealer do to help you buy a car, besides convince weak minded people to buy a car they didn’t want. If you want it, then you buy it. If you get “talked” into it or think you got a good deal, then you were just had by the dealer.
So that being said a dealer physically does nothing to sell a vehicle, if you wanted it, and could buy it at a lot owned by the company without paying for all the dealer “fluff” versus buying it at a dealer, you’d buy it at a company outlet EVERY time.
Dealers are useless.
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:20 am)This may be a really dumb question–but is there a rule against purchasing a car from a different state? Why would you need to finagle?
And why would you need a California address if it’s done on ebay? Couldn’t you bid anyway if you’re willing to pick it up in California?
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:31 am)You are obviously dealing with the wrong dealer(s). Having a local dealer who is there to service your needs, take care of maintenance and interface with the manufactuer on your behalf is key. Manufacturers build vehicles, but they don’t service them nor do they provide warranty service. Rather, they rely on a network of franchised dealers to provide those services and perform warranty work. For the priviliage of being able to do so, each dealership runs as an independent business; investing their money in parts inventory, employee training and certification, local facilities, etc. At the end of the day, dealers actually loose money on most individual warranty jobs; as the cost of performing the repairs is greater than the reimbursement from the Manufacturer. However, dealers provide warranty service as just a part of their business, and they are required to do so to maintain their franchise.
The vast majority of dealers provide real and tangible value and service to their customers. Unfortunately, as in any business or industry, there are those few who spoil the reputation of many. Bob, you need to go find a new local dealer!
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:33 am)In my experience as a customer, it really depends on the dealership. Both on the individual character of the dealership and how irritating their sales and service people happen to be — and also on the standards set by the brand behind the dealership.
Reading stickers in the windows of a car at some dealerships can be like a gauntlet, though. I don’t set foot on the lot of those dealerships unless I have to.
As for service, the Toyota service departments that I’ve worked with have been much better than average. The Ford service departments that I’ve used pretty much define average — they want to take care of the customer, but sometimes $#!t happens and they can’t. Volkswagen seems to be hit and miss. I can’t speak to GM dealer service departments, since I’ve never owned a GM car.
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:35 am)Laura,
I don’t think so. People in the DC area that live in Maryland purchase cars from dealerships in Virginia all the time.
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:35 am)Storm – where in CT? I am confident the VOLT available for sale in CT early in the roll-out period. Although GM has made no firm announcement of distribution plans, it will definitely be coming to the metro NY market.
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:36 am)Everyone who posts on this site says the $40,000 price for a VOLT is too high, and now NGMCO is actually trying to sell them for a profit?
I guess that really sucks for all those “I’ll-never-pay-anything-close-to-MSRP-for-any-car” crowd!
Good luck fellas!
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:37 am)Agreed. It would most likely price me out of the Volt market as well. I’d end up waiting for the Zenn Motors EESTOR ultra capacitor all electric in that case.
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:38 am)I’m sorry. Is that part of the new budget that they just passed in California? It sounds horrible all the way around.
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:40 am)WOW! -4 at the time of this posting!
ebay must have crackhead followers!
I DID buy on ebay in the early years but got tired of all the crap (and fee’s).
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:41 am)“And now for something completely different…..”
Prius takes out town’s electricity, driver flees
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/07/21/prius-takes-out-towns-electricity-driver-flees/
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:41 am)My Chevy Malibu can be used to pick that up for you if needed.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:46 am)So GM should jump at the chance to have 50% of what it could get by just selling direct to customers via eBay? It looks like the only winner in that scenario is the car dealer; both the customer and GM would lose with that scenario.
I’ll Pass!
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:46 am)1. GM has been auctioning off early one-off versions of new models for several years. They auctioned off the first Chevy SS-R’s, Corvette Z06, Camaro, etc. There were a few early production models of each that, in most cases, GM donated to a major charity and the vehicles were auctioned off on eBay to raise money.
With the US franchise system, GM or any other manufacturer cannot sell directly to the consumer. This is not so much a penalty on the manufacturer, but a protection for the consumer. If manufacturers sold vehicles directly to the consumer, and then the consumer had a problem a few months later, what would they do? Call FedEx and arrange a large box and ‘return to manufacturer’ for repairs? I don’t think so.
Local Dealers make major investments on behalf of the manufacturer and the consumer. Each dealer carries a significant inventory of parts – all bought from the Manufacturer at pricing determined by the Manufacturer – and has them available for maintenance and warranty repairs. Yes, many times a dealer does not have the exact part YOUR vehicle needs – it just always seems that way – but it is virtually impossible to have every part for every model made by the manufacturer in stock. With over 25,000 parts per vehicle, the number of parts would quickly swell to something totally unmanageable. But most dealers do invest in and stock the most likely parts that might be required. Each dealer is also responsible for hiring and training qualified technicians to perform needed service work. This is a significant investment that the manufacturer does not incur.
At the end of the day, GM may decide to list dealer’s inventory on eBay, but I seriously doubt that they can begin selling vehicles directly to consumers. If they do, consumer beware that your local dealer is another step closer to disappearing.
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:49 am)Very neat idea – to fleece suckers
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:50 am)I’m thinking that on-line ordering would be better than the lack of response I’m getting from my local dealers. They only seem interested in selling what they already have on their lots right now.
Anybody know where I can get on a waiting list?
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:50 am)OK…
Hence the REASON that sales HAVE TO be ‘slimey’.
If the price is the price then you can have a cute blonde girl do your paperwork. No stress, no slime, NO MARKUP, with a fair fee to the dealer for perfoming their services.
The REASON people HATE buying cars is because some people get the inside track and then BEAK about it. So then the sales people need to lie to the customer so they can get their commission so they can keep their kids in Wii games. The Normal customer comes out feeling ‘ripped off’, it’s an awful system.
A set price no negotiating model is better for all involved.
Yes Jerry, that means you pay MSRP like everybody else including me.
Jul 21st, 2009 (11:55 am)A bid on eBay is a contract, just like any other. It is legally binding – read the eBay terms of service. The only problem is that eBay hasn’t aggressively gone after these bad bidding crooks (most of whom are probably tied to a competitor selling the same thing right on eBay). Enforcing the laws of this great country will nix that scum.
And this will not be the “standard” eBay Motors site, it will be tied to eBay but will be unique to GM. So GM will have a lot more to say about whether there will be prosecutions for breach of contract bidders. All eBay has to do is bring one or two of these cases to court and the press will do the rest.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:01 pm)I never said that the eventual car doesn’t end up at the dealer for you to pick up, with them making the spiff, and any residual cash flow generated for servicing…I fully expect that to happen. GM has to have a ‘face’ on the street level.
What I was saying is that this process takes the ‘premium dollars’ away. Dealers get there vehicles at a invoice price (plus a percentage kick back later), then turn around and sell them, hopefully around the MSRP. In some cases, when the car is new and/or hot, the car is easy sold at MSRP or more (generally under the auspicisous ‘dealer value added’ options, but sometimes just tacked on).
For example, lets say a GM dealer anticipates to make $2,200 per base Volt sold at a MSRP of $40,000, but due to demand and built in scarcity, he can mark up each copy he gets to $50,000. That dealer now makes $12,200…huzzah! That is what is happening now with the Camaro.
However, if it is ebayed directly from GM and then sent to a dealer, GM will give that dealer ‘his due’ of $2,200, as required by law and their dealer agreements…but GM will pocket the premium dollars.
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:03 pm)I’m thinking about building my own electric. Looking for a Suzuki or Geo Tracker to build it from. Lightweight and already has a place in the back for the batteries. About 10 Gell Cells from the local Auto Zone should give me about 80 – 100 or so miles per charge. A little custom paint and some wheels and it might make a fine ride. Very Cheap also.
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:06 pm)Their allotment for Amazon sales is already sold out for this MY and their production capacity is at 100% to try to meet demand (so why pay Amazon middleperson $). You can order directly from them at:
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/
with easy on-line deposits and shipping. Yes, they have local reps for service, sales and support, or you can always ask me how to change the brakes yourself (takes 5 minutes).
The direct sales link was right on the Amazon site page, but I guess you didn’t get that far.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:09 pm)Mike,
I don’t see an issue, the engineers currently are working on the integration vehicles. Once the production design is final (many months prior to actual manufacturing beginning) they will train the techs at the lead dealerships.
On the sales side they will have to get those folks up to speed.
There is time.
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:10 pm)I always go to the Toyota service center with our Highlander (the last non-electric vehicle I’ll ever own).
Car DEALERS however are totally unnecessary in today’s world. The service center is all you need. GM can have a “sales support center” in each city where you go to get a test drive if you want one.
Personally, I’d go to a rental place and rent the car before buying it anyway. What can you honestly learn about a car in the artificial 4 blocks long test drive. Heck, they won’t even let you take them out on the freeway sometimes. There is no value there for me. Instead, I rent the car for a day or longer and drive it like I normally would my present car, same route, same times, same everything.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:10 pm)We have no idea what new agreements or addenda to the franchise agreements GM will make with dealers regarding eBay sales!
+9
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:17 pm)This is the sort of thing that has to stop.
Those big markups scream of “bad” old GM…
They should go to set pricing like the origional Saturn dealers.
The price is the price.
Forget ebay and try customer service.
This is why people HATE buying a car… the experience (BOTH pre AND post sale) is terrible!
The service desk so often feels like you are playing 3 card monte.
The dealerships HAVE TO up their game without a doubt, but I still am not buying a car online.
It is clear my opinion is unpopular with a lot of people here today.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:21 pm)Funny, except that an MLM is a criminal enterprise. The only criminals in the car buying activity are the car dealers and their “value” add-ons like pin stripes for $700 or mud flaps for $220. And when you tell them you want a vehicle without all that crap added on the say “we don’t have any without the ‘value’ add-ons.” That’s when I walk out of their and buy from a different dealership. With the Volt, though, you won’t be able to set the terms. The dealer will set the terms and you will either agree or have “NO Volt for you.”
And don’t forget what happened with the New Beetle and the Mini. Dealers “marked up” the price of the first year or two production horribly. Supply and demand, they said. Just like a meth dealer would do.
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:22 pm)If there are any of those laws in your state you should begin a grass roots effort to repeal them and ban any such laws in the future. It is anti-competitive practice. It should be illegal.
+6
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:26 pm)DonC said:
Why do you keep saying that CA is power starved? Other than the situation created by Enron in 2001 this hasn’t been the case.
During the last few years there has been the occasional crunch for a couple of hours during the summer but that has been related to the drought in the Pacific Northwest. In the summer CA draws power from the NW; in the winter the NW draws power from CA. But the NW hasn’t had its normal excess power because of the drought.
===================
I say it because it is a fact.
The fact your lights haven’t gone out in your house for awhile does not indicate robust power generation or efficient streaming of supply.
California is the worst state in the union for power, and supply. It pulls power from every state around it, and it shows in the price premium users pay…and even then in some areas, it is not enough.
Several states are shipping every spare kW they have: Over 20% of its power comes from coal burning plants in Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado and Montana…and another chunk from hydropower in Oregon, Washington State and the Hoover Dam near Las Vegas. Those states are left to deal with the fallout of California’s demands. On top of all that, new power prjects are shot down constantly because of California’s eco-consciousness of ‘not in my state’ mentality, or because they hate windmills/turbines…why the frig does Texas a billion of them to lead the nation in production?
California has tons of people, that is just a reality, and they have/had a massive ‘well-heeled’ population that likes to feel good about themselves, and have the ‘principles’ to match…but they have no energy, no water, no oil…and now, no money.
Random quotes/links backing up my position:
“State auditors announced that California’s energy mandates pose a “high risk” to the state’s economy, and the California Energy Commission warned of power shortages in 2011 if current trends continue. ”
http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legislative_issues/federal_issues/hot_issues_in_congress/energy/Californias-Utopian-Renewable-Energy-Mandates-Already-Threatening-Power-Shortages-and-Higher-Utility-Bills.htm
“The state of California has mandated that 33% of their power come from renew-ables…That’s why they are broke and issuing IOU’s. Not content with setting goals that are impossible from a cost and physical perspective, the state has passed new regulations to curtail existing practices. Once-through cooling sucks water out the the ocean and rivers and discharges massive amounts of warmed water, supposedly harming some aquatic life. Ending this practice will close 19 plants that produce as much as 15% of the state’s power. The tab to get to the 2020 goal, $114 billion and growing. Federal and state tax dollars are going to subsidize the alternative power.
The result of all this. The state of California will run itself out of power as early as 2011. Utility bills will skyrocket. More businesses and taxpayers will exit California replaced by more illegal Mexicans. The state deficit will grow and the state will be asking for help from Washington.”
http://www.nosmokeblown.com/?tag=california-power-shortage
“State legislators in California are drafting regulations that may prevent California retailers from selling power-sucking big screen TVs by 2011. But the California Energy Commission is looking for ways to relieve the strain on the power grid. Officials say the standards, once fully in place, would reduce the state’s annual energy needs by an amount equivalent to the power consumed by 86,400 homes”
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/fresh-greens/2009/01/06/california-may-ban-big-screen-tvs.html
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:27 pm)Right on bro. Test drives ain’t what they used to be. Don’t think you will be able to rent new hot vehicles like Camaro or Volt though. I don’t like dealers and would much prefer a Factory Outlet approach. Each Factory outlet would carry ALL models for test drives only, orders placed directly to factory by buyer. Delivery is directly to owner in a timely manner without the outrageous union delivery charges !
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:28 pm)That’s not quite fair since the Volt is in the prototyping phase.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:32 pm)I agree with you that all car dealers are greedy slimeballs and just want to soak the consumer for all they can get on a vehicle purchase – and they don’t give a whit about making a vehicle purchase enjoyable. Quite the opposite. GM knows that this is a terrible way to do retail.
If it were any other industry these slimeballs would either be out of business or be arrested. Why is it tolerated in the auto industry?
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:33 pm)IF the car you want is available in a rental fleet then that is a great idea!
They are not always though.
If I am serious about the car the sales guy gets informed that the test drive will be a bit longer than they expected. Simple.
+3
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:37 pm)One more thing on California’s “solar”, you said:
“CA has a good record on power for a couple of reasons. One is that the mix of power is fairly green: a lot of the baseline is nuclear and the 500MW of rooftop solar installations generates a lot of power during those hot summer afternoons. ”
========================
Yeah, and one piece of legislation shut down the the Rancho Seco Nuclear Generating Station and ‘converted’ it to solar.
You know what it produces today? 4MW. As a nuclear station it was capable of producing up to 913 MW….which is more than double of all of California’s solar today. And that is the problem right there, ‘feel good’ over substance. It has taken TWENTY years to get half the capacity of one felled nuclear station back online. The only thing keeping California totally off the ledge, and another doubling of its citizen’s electric bill, is the economic crisis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Seco_Nuclear_Generating_Station
Don’t get me wrong, I love solar, heck I’ve done the solar system thing myself before I moved…and I will do it again, but it is decades away from being any viable answer for California.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:38 pm)It is time for Factory Direct ordering. GM can contract Apple to setup a very intuitive web portal to all models. A few chosen dealerships will be converted to Factory Outlets that carry every model and make for TEST DRIVES ONLY. All orders will be processed by Apple with GM getting a majority of purchase price (Apple will take its customary 30%). This is the way forward folks. Service centers will be created in already established shops (lube, tire, brakes, etc) around the country and will be open 24hrs a day. BTW, each service center will include free loaners as well as an on-site restaurant with free all-you-can-eat-while-you-wait food.
+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:40 pm)It has been said time and again that GM has too many dealers.
The dealers that continue to rip off customers should lose their franchise on the spot when caught.
Quick and GOOD for the customer AND GM.
The crooked dealer can become a used car dealer (where their skills seem to be the standard scummy issue) or go bankrupt, who cares.
The end result is a dealer network that is on a leash and can then mostly be trusted to do the right thing.
GM for their part need to step up and fix problems properly.
Happy customers tell friends and come back next time.
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:46 pm)You’re in luck. eBay may already be building a pre-order / waiting list .
A nominal deposit (< $100) may be needed to HOLD the vehicle (in this case a Volt SS) of your choice. A guaranteed delivery date would be given at the time of your order. This is the new GM / eBay alliance at work for you.
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:48 pm)…well, I hear the earth is going to open up and you are going to slip into the ocean at any moment. (=
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:50 pm)Thats bad news Capt, I’m sorry to hear that.
This part of you?
http://globalnation.inquirer.net/news/breakingnews/view/20090721-216496/15-pay-cut-for-California-state-workers
Jul 21st, 2009 (12:52 pm)Anyway, here are those customer reviews that you like so much.
You have to have an account at Amazon and actually own the product to post a review.
http://www.amazon.com/Zero-Motorcycles-Zero-X-Sport-Electric-Motorcycle/product-reviews/B001SK3GHA/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:01 pm)OK…
So you want to add 30% to the price of a Volt…
Errr, no.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:03 pm)It has been along time since they have had to pay MSRP+ for a vehicle from GM, heeh…this is one of those rare cases.
(Unless someone is planning on having a low VIN# Volt and Camaro in the driveway…but that seems like a bit of a oxymoron).
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:11 pm)those are the bad salesman, and they can be nasty.. there are some good ones out there but you have to ask around to find them.. ask your friends if they recommend a particular salesman..
We do lots of research on cars before buying them, why not research the salesman also?
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:13 pm)“I mean, seriously, what service does any dealer do to help you buy a car, besides convince weak minded people to buy a car they didn’t want.”
We would all be driving boring 2 year old Corollas if pushy car salesmen were not around.
BTW, stripers DO like me..
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:15 pm)Because you are deleting all current GM overhead (union delivery, state taxes, advertising, payment processing, etc) you would actually see a cheaper Volt. Don’t let Apple’s 30 percent fool you. GM only has to assembly the car and Apple will take care of everything else. Each service center will also have a GENIUS BAR. What more do you need.
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:17 pm)Ebay would have to cut their fees for cars.. the advantage is that you could have all the manufacturers in one web site.. if pigs could fly we would be able to buy cars from all over the world, never mind pollution, safety and other trade barriers.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:18 pm)You would trust Lyle to mess around and handle your brain, definitely you would trust him enough to buy a car
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:19 pm)Mmmmm. Nicole Jacobs. Mmmmm. [said in your best Homer Simpson voice]
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:20 pm)You are right, but isn’t it sad that it is necessary?
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:22 pm)It depends on the perception, though. It’s one thing if the auction looks like dealer is trying to screw a customer, it’s another thing if the auction looks like a release party for a hot new product. I hate to say it, but the PR people might earn their keep by making the distinction — and by knowing exactly when to stop and sell at MSRP.
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:23 pm)Wow. Were you choking on your own laughter as you typed this post? What kind of car dealer crook apologist crud is this? “Local dealers make major investments on behalf of the manufacturer and the consumer.” Yeah, riiiiiiiiight.
“Volkswagen of America has gotten complaints that some dealers are adding a significant markup on the new and desirable model” . . .
“The dealers are eager to make some money on the new cars while VW is concerned that customers may just look elsewhere because they feel they’re being treated unfairly.”
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/01/vw-dealer-relationship-souring-over-jetta-tdi/
-2
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:24 pm)Actually Apple would have a large say in the final price, thereby lowering it considerably. Look at the music industry, if it wasn’t for Steve Jobs everyone would be paying two(2) bucks a song by now. Apple knows how to contain prices. It is basically this simple:
Buy your Volt at the Apple Store for $29,500 with NO HIDDEN FEES and a 150,000 mile owner-transferrable warranty.
The old model would be to walk in to a local dealer and negotiate a price (already set to minimum by manager of say $42,000) and try to leave with your shirt still and your pockets not on empty.
This is an easy choice.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:24 pm)I’ll be doing a Ford Ranger next spring. I don’t know what VDC range you will have but stay above 96VDC. For a car of that size use a Warp9 with a less expensive Curtis controller up to 96 – 144VDC with a 600A max or 750A. I would higly reconsider the Gell Cells and they will not get you 80-100 miles maybe @ NEV speeds. By next spring, Li cells will have dropped close enough to upgrade. A 100AH 3.6VDC cell is $110.00
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:25 pm)Are they going to put you on a waiting list to bid?
lol…
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:25 pm)I purchased 2 vehicles from out-of-state when I was living in Virginia. It was only marginally more work than buying a vehicle in-state.
There can be some gotchas with respect to sales tax, though. Usually your home state will take the difference between the sales tax that you paid and the tax that you would have paid if you’d bought the car in your home state. So, I left the Virginia DMV several hundred dollars poorer each time I registered a vehicle that I bought out-of-state. Grumble.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:26 pm)Tell that to Congress that’s currently trying to force GM and Chrysler to reinstate their cut dealers.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124818970199168849.html
Right now the dealers still have all the cards.
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:28 pm)PLEASE…
This would be about the best way to keep me from buying anything.
I ended up in an apple store because a friend had a dead ipod, the “genius” could barely turn on the ipod…
The price premium was rediculous.
PASS
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:29 pm)Related today, re: Volt and profitability from Tom Stephens at GM yesterday (just thought it was interesting):
Stephens says GM should be able to make money on the Chevrolet Volt rechargeable electric car, but not in the first generation where volumes are low and prices are high. The Volt, due in showrooms by November of 2010, has a lithium-ion battery that can carry the car 40 miles on a single charge from a home outlet before a small internal combustion engine kicks in.
Generally, it takes three generations or several years of a new technology for prices to come down and sales volumes to go up, allowing the company to make money, Stephens said.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j-f5_ypyhH2xMDRDuDrOdkxRdOZgD99IF1AG0
-3
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:32 pm)Related today, re: Volt and profitability from Tom Stephens at GM yesterday (just thought it was interesting):
Stephens says GM should be able to make money on the Chevrolet Volt rechargeable electric car, but not in the first generation where volumes are low and prices are high. The Volt, due in showrooms by November of 2010, has a lithium-ion battery that can carry the car 40 miles on a single charge from a home outlet before a small internal combustion engine kicks in.
Generally, it takes three generations or several years of a new technology for prices to come down and sales volumes to go up, allowing the company to make money, Stephens said.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j-f5_ypyhH2xMDRDuDrOdkxRdOZgD99IF1AG0
P.S.: Wanted to say good post!
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:35 pm)That’s my better half getting that 3 day’s furlough. I work for an “Undisclosable Govt Agency”……lol
But we are still getting furloughed plus no COLA (cost of living adjustment) for the next 2 yrs plus no sellout of vac time anymore and last but not least, more layoffs come September.
And I left private indistry because of this, sheeesh.
Getta govt job everyone tells, they’re safe….
10 years later……..LAYOFFS!
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:36 pm)Capt, you’ll be putting in a Warp11 in the Ranger, though, right?
Warp9 wouldn’t quite cut it IMO for that size of vehicle.
It’d be great for the Geo/Suzuki. Or, if you can find an Isuzu car from the 1980s. They weigh about 1,000 pounds (just kidding – they’re very light).
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:37 pm)I agree. GM should be doing this on their website. What they should do is have a web page with numbers that represent the Volt in the order of manufacture, 1-500 let’s say, and names next to the numbers, and after the names, a price. Everyone can try to outbid each other because they can see exactly what other people have bid. Give everyone 2 weeks to bid and see where it goes. There would be rich movie stars and celebrities, businesses who want the green cred of driving one of the first Volts, rich car collectors like Jay Leno, and foreign auto makers trying to reverse engineer and who knows who all trying to get one. They’d make a fortune.
Any 20 year old computer science major could do this for GM in a few hours and GM could pocket all of the extra money.
GM needs to work out a way to do this through dealers somehow just to satisfy any contracts, but just have the vehicles shipped directly to the buyers.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:41 pm)It likely would require that the dealerships sign new franchise contracts.
(Which likely are required to apply to NEWGM in any case.)
Dealer Markup of any sort = loss of franchise.
One strike and you are out, no BS.
It would only take a couple of crooked dealers to be dumped for the rest of them to come onside.
+4
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:44 pm)OH MY GOD…
You actually said a LOWER price from Apple.
I don’t know what you are smoking but please don’t drive until you come down.
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:45 pm)Well, this is the death of an affordable Volt. Time to start watching the competition closer. It was nice while it lasted.
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:46 pm)Indirectly yes it is.
In CA it’s all horrible. Everyon blames the “Governator” or the legislature but they are only half of the problem. The other half is poor biz practices and inefficient methods of operation. I can go on but I don’t want to hijack the thread like I sometimes do.
Jus keepin my head up!!!
-1
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:48 pm)The Volt price has not changed. The ebay thing will be a fad which will only make sense when the Volt is very limited. Once production starts up in force in year 2, the Volts should be available at the dealers.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:50 pm)Totally agree. I stopped buying there 4yrs ago.
Interesting to search through some times but won’t buy there anymore.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (1:54 pm)My point is that GM is looking to sell the first Volts on eBay. If they do, the waiting list is irrelevant and people will bid up the prices. There are plenty of rich people out there that will pay whatever it takes to get the car regardless of their needs. That will knock most of the enthusiasts out of the running.
The “quoted” price is also irrelevant (and so is the waiting list if they go this way). That’s ok, GM won’t be the only game in town.
Either way, their message is not enthusiast friendly. The more stories Lyle posts, the clearer it becomes that this forum is not what GM is looking to satisfy. As we get closer to release it will be crystal clear. Get into the new line because this one is not going anywhere.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:00 pm)You would still be driving an older car is a salesman hadn’t duped you into another payment schedule?
You couldn’t just decide to buy another car on your own? You need to be taken advantage of at a dealership to get into another car?
Seriously? And you admit you let pushy salesman steer you into a deal? Gosh, you’re more gullible than I imagined.
Since you think strippers like you for your “personality” I totally understand why you enjoy getting raped by car dealers. I’m talking to the wall basically with you.
-1
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:02 pm)Why wait, I think the EEStor powered Zenn will be released BEFORE the Volt goes on sale.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:02 pm)Jeesh,
You don’t get it, you can’t research a salesman, because they are a salesman. They only care about how much money they can claw out of your sorry ass. Using the veil of they care about you to do it.
You fall hook line & sinker when you buy something form them.
Sadly, most don’t have the mental capacity to realize this.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:06 pm)I share your concerns.
Bob, please think this all the way through.
The best solution is to beat the dealers into shape.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:06 pm)Knowledgeable sales people? lol, they don’t exist. They just read off pamphlets and reiterate known facts. They may only seem they know something because you as a consumer never bothered to look it up yourself.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:09 pm)Typical of the idiotic sales team. If you sell cars you should be abreast of the new technology, especially as big as the Volt is.
He’ll just read off the phamplet when given one. That’ll be the new Volt guru at the dealership, the first one to read the phamplet.
Typical slovenly salesperson.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:11 pm)Please, you can test drive it after you buy it online. If it isn’t what the seller said it is, then just walk. If he was honest, then there won’t be a problem. If it was a bad deal hidden behind an ebay purchase, then just turn and leave.
Advice is to buy local when you can. If you ship it sight unseen, that’s your problem.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:11 pm)Muddy,
“It is clear my opinion is unpopular with a lot of people here today.”
——————————–
So, what is new about that?
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:12 pm)One thing eBay is good for is buying Electric Scooters. Like the Vectrix Scooter that Bob Lutz owns. Since they couldn’t find anymore suckers to buy them, they have layoff all employees and are now bankrupt. SO MUCH FOR ELECTRIC SCOOTERS. Now about those electric cars…..
-1
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:13 pm)A bid on fleBay is a contract, just like any other. It is legally binding
Yah right, puhleeze.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:14 pm)I would be willing to pay a “premium? for the first Volt with serial # 0001. In about 10 years the car could be worth some kind of money whether the Volt line is successful or not. So, what about it GM?
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:19 pm)LOL!
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:20 pm)Most states don’t car if you purchase a vehicle out-of-state, but when you bring it back to register it (like in Mississippi) they charge you sales tax based on the sales price. In Mississippi they make you show them the new vehicle window sticker also when you purchase your first car tag. That way they charge you the proper taxes on the tax based on the cost of the vehicle plus the vehicle class/weight. They don’t let you get away with anything here. The state is going to get “theirs” regardless. That may be why there are so many people living in Mississippi with Alabama, Louisiana or Texas tags. These people own homes here, work here and purchase and register their vehicles out-of-state. It is a good thing I don’t have a neighbor like that because I would certainly turn his butt in.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:21 pm)“They only seem interested in selling what they already have on their lots right now.”
Imagine that, how short sighted of them.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:21 pm)Just think how fun it could be to bid up the price on some sucker. Or better yet watch GM do it.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:28 pm)GM has ditched the actual Saturn, they would do well to resurrect that “classic Saturn” “The price is the price” system.
It’s what brought me to GM.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:29 pm)Um,,,,,it will happen!
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:30 pm)The Volt is only be made to get to the 2nd and 3rd generation models. It will be a massive money loser for GM. Think billion$ (not millions). They are just trying to initially capture some of the halo effect that Toyota gets from Prius. Only if battery get cheaper will they ever make money.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:35 pm)“I think it will be cheaper to put overhead wires across the entire Interstate system and we’re done – similar to what electric trains have”
What’s that? WHAT?!! Turn your radio down!!!!
Sorry, I couldn’t hear over all the static.
(not you, statik)
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:35 pm).
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:36 pm)Statik,
You named just some of the reasons why I say I don’t want my state (or any other state) to follow California’s lead. Following in the footsteps of California is a path way to certain financial ruin. Every state should take a pledge to not follow along with California from now on. IMO.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:37 pm)You should read the eBay terms of service sometime. Just a suggestion. And eBay Motors does not turn a blind eye to jokesters and scammers trying to hinder their competitors.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:38 pm)OK Joe.
It’s clear that you got burned BAD and you are bitter.
Being people funny enough some are good people who happen to work in car sales and who are enthusiastic about their products, some are complete arses.
I have spoken with both kinds. I bought from the ‘good’ one.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:41 pm)“He’ll just read off the phamplet when given one”
You mean a glossy booklet filled with beautiful pictures, glittering generalities and focus-group tuned phrases that appeal to your emotions (but very little solid information)?
I’ve hated GM pamphlets for years.
Their first web presence (in the days of modems) was to simply put the pamphlets online — to download at a page every 10 minutes. They’ve greatly improved since then, but they trail in the fine art of useful-content-rich internet sites. I don’t doubt they would rather trust e-Bay than fall flat online again.
Not only should there be a well-written functional GM ordering site, it ought to be possible to assemble and place a factory order (for exactly the equipment wanted) at such a site.
I fear that GM’s presentation will never be as cutting-edge as their Voltec cars.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:48 pm)I totally disagree. I have built a good relationship with my dealer over the years and with the same salesman for most of that time. We know each other and I trust them in most things. I do spend a lot of time before going to the dealership researching the vehicle I want to look at. Sometimes I know more than the salesman about a particular model (especially a new model). I have found that if you do your homework and let them know that you are a knowledgeable buyer, you get treated better. I push the salesman and the dealer’s sales manager as hard as I can to get the kind of deal that I want. If I don’t feel happy about the deal, I walk out and I let them know that I will shop other dealers. My relationship with my dealer is strong enough that I bought a new 2008 car on Saturday afternoon and on Monday morning I called my salesman and told him I was going to bring the car back and turn it back in. He said “no problem” When I got there the salesman met me and took the keys. The finance manager tore up the papers. The owner (a partner) came out and talked with me to be sure I was satisfied with the dealership’s handling of my problem. I told him that over the weekend I decided that I had “bought the right car at the wrong time”. He said he understood and hoped I would come back when I was ready. Almost one year to the day I came back and purchased the same car but as a 2009 model with some upgraded equipment. I was satisfied and the dealership was satisfied. That can happen to anyone who takes the time to understand the vehicle, the pricing and understand the dealer and gets to “know” them. There are a lot more good dealers than there are bad dealers. You just got to find them. Ask you neighbors, friends and family. It just takes a little effort on your part.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:49 pm)So you just drive the salesman to your house? Does he/she sleep on the couch or do you have a king size bed???
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:49 pm)Amazon does have customer reviews, so it’ll be like reading Lyle’s mini E review on GM-Volt.com. Just so GM knows what they might be getting into.
You have to have an sales account at Amazon and actually own the product to post a review.
http://www.amazon.com/Zero-Motorcycles-Zero-X-Sport-Electric-Motorcycle/product-reviews/B001SK3GHA/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:50 pm)Come on! Nothing on the “No Volt for you” thing?!? I give up trying to be funny today.
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:54 pm)So, basically, anyone who wants to can go to California and buy a Volt when they first come out regardless of whether or not GM puts the cars on ebay?
Jul 21st, 2009 (2:55 pm)I would agree on that. IF it were enforced and no dealer crap options added prior to sale to boot.
I walk out of any dealer on the spot if they try that crap. It’s sad that many people are lemmings or “born suckers” that these slimeball dealers get away with things.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:00 pm)What happens when you are not on an interstate with overhead wires? There is NO WAY we are ever going to build overhead wires or induction lines into every possible road. So, you have to have a means of propelling vehicles without overhead wires or induction lines in the road bed. Sounds a lot like what we have now or will have with battery powered vehicles until some type of fuel cell system is developed that can replace the ICE engine. That is still a long way off. Or at least one an ordinary person could ever afford.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:00 pm)The last new car I bought (Subaru Impreza) we took a good 2 hour test drive. Highway, city traffic, backroad.. no gravel, we gave it a good run.
I was then confident and DID factory order my car.
We took a very similar test drive before closing on the car we bought.
There is no need to be rude.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:02 pm)You seriously thought you’d get an affordable Volt when the dealer markup will be astronomical?!? May I say, “Puh-leeeease.”
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:03 pm)***not my post in #52****
Glad you liked the post, and no offense, but please don’t use my handle and/or hotlink my user name to a 3rd party site, please. I don’t want to be misrepresented in comment, or by endorsement of something.
I know there are no controls on unique IDs, and it is a free country/interwebs and all…but there probably should be.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:03 pm)Silicon Valley *cough* *cough*
I haven’t been able to reconcile California’s continued reputation as a hotbed of innovation and entrepreneurship with its continued reputation for outrageous real-estate prices and crazy taxes and rules…
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:07 pm)Their website (vectrix.com and vectrixusa.com) are both closed down!
Wow.
On the bright side, anyone who bought one of those now has a collector’s item. Hmmm. Can you say cha-ching!
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:07 pm)Sales people are no different than the average person. The VAST percent of the people in the U.S. and Canada don’t know a thing about the Volt. Of course, these same people don’t know the name of their governor, the name of the closest state to theirs, what the name of the U.S. capital city is and many, many other things that most 3rd graders should know. We have some real “dumb” people living here in his country and that is the way the government really prefers them. If you are dumb enough you can be led and will believe most lies if they are promising you something for nothing at the same time. Five years after the Volt is in full production and there are 1 million of them on the street (if it gets that many in 5 years) over half of the same people will still not know what it is and how it works. Just plain dumb. I know, it appears I don’t have a very high opinion of my fellow Americans. I really don’t because I believe they have earned how I feel about them.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:08 pm)The Ebay deal has come up before (yawn….). It might help drive up margin on the sale of the first generation, but aside from that it’s just a gimmick. The first 1,000 or so will go for a premium over sticker but after that the speculators will be out.
For regular buyers Ebay makes no sense until Volts really go mainstream. For cars that you can get serviced anywhere Ebay sort of works but for the Volt you have to live near a Volt-certified dealer to get service, which means LA, NY, Chicago or Miami (or wherever they get launched) so what’s the point of an Internet sale? You still have to go to your local dealer. Ebay adds no value to the process.
I think there is an expectation that a web-based purchase will prevent dealers from gouging customers (which they would if they had the opportunity) but we have to realize that the dealers have significant leverage in this process. In order to be a Volt dealer they will have BIG training and tooling expense, which they will have to recapture somehow (read : dealer charges tacked on to the sticker price). GM can’t make them completely eat the expense of delivering and servicing the Volt.
If I were a dealer I wouldn’t touch a Volt if I didn’t get some consideration.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:12 pm)Agreed. I would never purchase a new or used car without a test drive. With a used vehicle, I will test it harder and if a friend is handy that is also a mechanic, I will ask him to take a look. Just does not make sense to be careless with your money or safety.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:14 pm)A quick call to the GM complaint line that Bob is going to setup would trigger an immediate audit of the dealer in question.
Bob, for this to work the customer needs to feel valued.
This is something GM has been very bad at for a long time.
Giving a slimeball dealership a smackdown in short order would go a long way to fixing the problem.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:14 pm)Agreed.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:16 pm)Same for me.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:17 pm)Hence why GM needs to go to set pricing.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:20 pm)The downside is the engine running 2/3 of the commute. I personally believe GM will over build the volt for a couple of years since they have so much ridding on this technology. With that said it has to be a very small engine unlike the 2.2l ecotec which I own and has 255,000 miles on it. The car is not really designed for long commutes that’s where other technologies may come in after the volt…..? GM has to have a small turbo diesel for the US and/or hybrid in the works or they would be not so smart a company not to see the writing on the wall. Basically the Volt is not a one stop shop for everyone. It will be a very cool short commuter and weekend driver.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:25 pm)Jeffhre,
If you live there, you already know what the problems are. I agree it is a lovely state and there are many very fine citizens living there. But somehow the citizens of California have forgotten how to elect officials that will do what is good for the citizens and not just put forth every kind of feel good legislation. I know I am being over simplistic, but we don’t have the time or space to list all of California’s problems. Every state has many of the same problems, but usually on a much smaller scale. California seems to do things in big ways. The state is classic “Champagne taste on a beer budget”. Sorry if I offend anyone. My gosh, I know my state doesn’t rate very high with other people around the nation and some of it has been well deserved. Some of it is bullshit. I know someone living in a glass house should not start throwing stones, but damn, someone has to say it like it is. IMO.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:33 pm)1.4 litre engine, 50 mpg genset running (projected)
With your commute being so long is plugging in at work an option?
If so you are looking at 2/3 of the commute being Electric and only about 40 miles on genset.
That averages to just under 150 mpg. (That ain’t bad.)
Contrary to your prior comment you are an ideal Volt candiate!
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:34 pm)I agree about the Ford Fusion. I think they did an excellent job with the Ford Escape Hybrid also. Ford is a great company with a lot of very fine automobiles. I am a Chevrolet lover over Ford, but I have been purchasing Honda and Nissan vehicles for the past 17 to 18 years because of quality. Today, a buyer can find just as good quality and dependability from a Ford or a GM vehicle. I, too, would like to see GM build a strong hybrid vehicle line that could rival Toyota’s success with the Prius. But if they want to build several EREV models instead, I would be agreeable to that as well. All I can say is that for Ford and GM to be successful, they must build quality and dependability into every vehicle that comes off the assembly line and they must be a fuel sipping as possible.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:35 pm)Yes, I agree.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:36 pm)The Ebay page says Hawthorne, CA, which where I’ll be living in < 1 month! Man I wish that was real…
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:41 pm)I have always thought the dealer’s cost should be shown on the window sticker. Total dealer cost with all the “dealer installed” options included at their cost. That would give the customer all the information he would need in dealing with the dealer. The customer would also know immediately if the dealer was trying to maximize profit at the point of losing a sale. The dealer and the customer would know where each other stood and either a sale would be made or it would not. All dealers have a bottom line that they will not go below and they could always tell the customer “sorry, we can’t sell the vehicle to you at that price”.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:43 pm)I’m so sorry to hear that. And I’m sorry that you’re affected. California sounds like a major mess. I absolutely agree with you about the cause. It’s scary actually.
Hopefully, things will improve at some point…
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:43 pm)I know what you are saying, and since I’m not really holding out a lot of hope that I’ll get a first year Volt the disapointment of that isn’t really an issue.
The whole point of the Volt is to create a mass market electric.
If I don’t get ahold of my Volt until Gen 2 that’s OK.
It means that it is selling well and the world is a little bit greener.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:45 pm)Sorry to hear that Captain Jack. Wish there was something I could do to help out. Tell you what. If you come through Mississippi anytime just let me know ahead of time and I will have a place for you to spend a night or two with good home cooking meals. How about that? My wife is an excellent cook. Not the best housekeeper, but she knows her way around the kitchen. My belt line can attest to that.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:49 pm)I want to say that I hope California gets it finances under control soon. Somewhere along the way you have to pay for what you legislate. If people don’t like what is going on in their state legislature, they need to turn them out the very next election. It is the old story of having “eyes bigger than your stomach”. My worry is that the rest of the country is going to have to bail out California and New York to name just a few. I don’t like that one darn bit. I don’t think most of us do.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:52 pm)Capt Jack & CS Guy – where can I get more information on this WARP 9 and CURTIS Controller and batteries that you mentioned? I was going to use instructions from the following web site unless you know of a better one.
http://www.electricity4gas.com (I read that they have the best do it yourself instructions)
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:56 pm)Maybe we have just reached the saturation point and getting more people to sign-up will be much slower in the future. Close to 50,000 is still a very good number. Congrats to Lyle for all his efforts.
Jul 21st, 2009 (3:56 pm)Absolutely!
You should be able to “build” your car on the GM website and walk in with the printout. Their prices should match to the penny.
Factory authorized Dealer installed stuff should have a standard factory set price and match the website to the penny.
Value add dealer stuff (non factory) is up the to dealer and the client to negotiate. (Foose mag wheels or whatever)
Jul 21st, 2009 (4:01 pm)Realistically, anyone expecting to purchase a Volt during the first three years at sticker price is going to be sadly mistaken. I am not sure if the dealer markup problem can be solved in the first ten years. To remove the markup from the dealer, GM has to produce enough Volts to “flood” every local market area so the dealer doesn’t have a supply and demand situation. I just don’t see supply catching up to demand for the foreseeable future. Unless, of course, the Volt turns dog and digs a hole for itself.
Jul 21st, 2009 (4:03 pm)Exactly like that Evo, very nice amazon page.
Jul 21st, 2009 (4:04 pm)regardless of the method, i’ll be impressed if they actually sell volts unlike the lease-only EV1
Jul 21st, 2009 (4:08 pm)Good luck with that.
Jul 21st, 2009 (4:14 pm)LauraM:
The problem would be with service.
This car will require special training for the techs. I don’t think your local Mr. Goodwrench would even touch a car running on 300+ volts.
So if you are dead on the road somewhere, it would be a long ride on a trailer to get it fixed….
That, in my opinion, is the real problem of a “staged” rollout. What happens to the person that buys in CA, and wants to take a trip to FL, which is the beauty of the Volt design. If the car has a problem, what is GM going to do? They can Trailer it back to a Volt Authorized dealership or fly out a tech to your location. Neither of which are good options!
And the whole e-bay idea is just dumb……………..
Jul 21st, 2009 (4:24 pm)You would think that would be true. But you never know if the dealer will go along with that. He wants you to be a customer that comes back time after time for “service”. But, if the markup is high enough (and it will be) the dealer may not care.
Jul 21st, 2009 (4:24 pm)You know its really rat fur right?..
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (4:31 pm)Yeah!…the problems of a vehicle like the Volt.
I’m going to sound like parent talking to their child…or your accountant…for a minute.
Everyone…be careful…do not let your euthanism grow to be bigger than your pocketbook. A “dealer” or “auction” premium is almost never recovered on resale unless the item is still “hot”. GM should be careful not to hurt the EREV/EV/hybrid market with possible mass buyer’s remorse. For example, someone pays $50K (with premium) for 1st model…then 2nd model costs $30K with several improvements. The early adopter could experience significant depreciation in short period of time. The Volt should be life changing (less trips to gas station, curiousity from friends, etc.)…not your own bankruptcy.
Jul 21st, 2009 (4:34 pm)I am not saying they should not sell through eBay. It could be done in multiple ways. I just suggested a couple of alternate methods. I assume the cost to the customer is going to much higher through eBay than through a dealer, but I certainly could be wrong considering dealer markup history.
Jul 21st, 2009 (4:56 pm)I got modded on my post. Lyle probably doesn’t want me posting crap like that. Check out diyelectriccar.com
They have a bunch of info.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:17 pm)Jerry said;
“MSRP? Who the hell pays MSRP???
I won’t buy any car inlcuding a Volt unless I can get a decent deal, which usually means near invoice.”
—————————————————————————————
You won’t be buying a Volt until around 2013 or so then. Clearly you haven’t bought any hot, first year cars before. Chances are, nobody will be paying MSRP for a Volt any time soon… we will have to pay much more than that. eBay will make this situation even worse.
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:21 pm)it was never alive
-2
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:32 pm)This long rant runs short of actual facts. FWIW claiming something is a “fact” by citing opinion issued by an extreme right wing organization which spends half its time spouting off about global warming and the other half about anything that might be considered “green” doesn’t cut it in my book. If you want to cite sources at least make them superficially credible.
You are right that CA draws power from surrounding states but wrong that this is a bad thing. For example, during the summer, when demand is low, the Pacific NW exports its surplus hydro energy to CA. During the winter, when demand is high, the NW imports energy from CA. What exactly is wrong with this? Since the alternative is for both CA and the NW to build power generation facilities which would sit idle for a good part of the year, the export/import system is both logical and economically viable. From this perspective, CA imports of energy are a positive not a negative.
As for your rant about Rancho Seco, you need to do some more fact checking. If you did, you’d know that the plant was built by the Sacramento Municipal Utility not by a major utility or the state of CA. It turned out that the plant was too large for its intended base of users, and that the power generated by the plant was so expensive that it was impossible to sell it profitably in the larger CA market. The end result was that Sacramento residents paid much higher electrical rates than residents in the rest of California.
As a consequence, in the late 90s the citizens of Sacramento became fed up with paying higher rates and voted to close the plant (hard to blame them for voting this way). After the plant was ordered decommissioned, the Sacramento Utility went on a campaign stressing conservation and diversified their sources of power. In the end, electric prices in Sacramento went DOWN and power supplies became more reliable.
The real lesson to be learned from Rancho Seco is that nuclear energy may be carbon neutral but it is not low cost and it is not free of emissions. (It’s also not cheap to clean up. Sacramento has spent half a billion dollars doing that.) This is the fundamental mistake many people make in thinking that nuclear is a silver bullet. it’s not. It’s extremely capital intensive and the electricity it delivers is not necessarily price competitive with other less technologically advanced processes. It’s certainly not competitive with other alternatives like turning out the lights when you’re not in the room.
+2
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:36 pm)There is the bad statik and the worse statik??
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:36 pm)Good point regarding the neurologist. Until recently, even GM trusted Lyle to get the news out.
Be well,
Tagamet
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:39 pm)Personally I blame closed Primaries and gerrymandered safe districts. This has given the state a bifurcated population of legislators, very few of whom have any incentive to reach a compromise. This was not that hard of a problem to solve had there been a critical mass of legislators interested in solving it.
I do feel sorry for many of the state workers. It’s always easy to dump on them but the reality is that most do a decent job. Having spent more time in the private sector but some in the public, the levels of commitment and the work ethic are similar. If anyone doubts that not everyone in the private sector is a go-getter, they need only to watch “The Office”.
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:45 pm)“Dealer Markup of any sort = loss of franchise.”
This is prohibited by state franchise laws.
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:51 pm)This just in: A jet-turbine hybrid.
http://www.reuters.com/article/wtUSInvestingNews/idUSTRE56K1SC20090721
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:51 pm)Actually people on this site say the price of the Volt will be too high AND they won’t be available. Somehow the law of supply and demand seems to have gotten lost. That law would say if there is a shortage then the price is too low.
Rolling out the Volt is going to be hard given that you have service and selling issues and all kinds of things going on. When GM gets close to the release date it will definitely try and price the car to fulfill a number of goals, dealer markups probably not being one (but may happen as a byproduct).
+5
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:55 pm)So state auditors are merely third party opinions? And proposed legislation to ban big screen tvs to save power in no way reflect that California has a energy supply problem? They are just making up wacky, unpoopular regulations for fun? Everything is ok fine then?
How about a quote from the governer? Is that good enough for you?
“Governor Schwarzenegger said at the dedication, “Applied Materials is a real California solar success story and they are demonstrating the potential of turning parking lots throughout the state into power plants at a time when we need innovative solutions to the growing energy crisis…”
http://www.allbusiness.com/energy-utilities/utilities-industry-electric-power-power/11727101-1.html
Not the we are fine, nothing to worry about, solar is a great energy solution to augment our already great system…but “solutions to the growing energy crisis”.
I suggest to you that no quote/source is every good enough for you if it doesn’t re-enforce your own opinion, and especially not if it comes from me. If for some reason a direct quote from the primary source (like we often see from GM) somehow does not fit your narrow opinion, you will thow the ‘well you really can’t take it literally’ chestnut at me. Total no-win scenario.
—
How about this Don, instead of just hijacking threads with no facts or links, why don’t you do some homework…because I always do, and if you don’t retort in kind, you just look foolish.
If California is OK for energy, and there is no shortfall, or impending crisis, why don’t you go get some sources from your own acceptable, but incredibly high standard sources to dispute my point.
I anxiously awaited your link to a article that says Californians have nothing to worry about, everything is fine, use as much power as you like and that they will soon be paying the national average in the future of about 9.8 cents per kW.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:56 pm)I’m not sure what “modded” means but thanks. Perhaps if Lyle would show a little more interest in getting the Volt’s to the people who have been supporting him, the Volt and waiting on the list for the past 2 years he wouldn’t have all these people looking elsewhere.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:58 pm)OMG that’s funny. But the double post wasn’t cool. What we don’t need are a bunch of sock puppets.
Jul 21st, 2009 (5:59 pm)Interesting point. There has been talk of only leasing the battery pack.
Jul 21st, 2009 (6:06 pm)There is a wind turbine manufacturing facility starting up in Santa Paula. This is about 35 minutes drive from my house here in Southern California.
http://www.energycurrent.com/index.php?id=3&storyid=19119
http://www.santapaulatimes.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/18907/Continental_Wind_Power_looking_to_its_future_in_Santa_Paula.html
=D~
Jul 21st, 2009 (6:24 pm)Bob Lutz knows that “buzz” surrounding the Volt will be a key factor in sales generation and long term success.
How many times will “Chevy Volt” be typed into the eBay search box per day? My guess is about 4-5 million. If just 1 % of these are interested buyers we’re at the Chevy Volt dot com waiting list total of 50,000. This is not a per year number, it’s a per day number.
I see competition being the main counter balance to a run-a-way price on the Volt. There is plenty of competition brewing. I am still in the Volt camp.
BTW: I bought custom golf clubs through eBay this week. Would have cost around $1200 to have the manufacturer deliver these in graphite with the 1 degree lie angle adjustment added on. The eBay price, with shipping, $230.
2010 is fast approaching.
=D~
Jul 21st, 2009 (6:29 pm)You’ll be right around the corner from Elon Musk’s Space-X facility where the design of Tesla’s Model S prototype took place.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (6:31 pm)Somehow seeing that happen to someone doesn’t seem like a fun thing for me.
Jul 21st, 2009 (6:32 pm)“modded” means get moderated. It’s a form of censorship in that the subject is best taken up elsewhere.
Lookup evcomponents.com for cells and cloud electric for the rest of the stuff. EVcomponents have the best price.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (6:33 pm)Lyle (or someone else):
You need to correct this butchering of the Chevy Volt on Huffington Post!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/21/who-will-win-the-small-ca_n_242158.html
This is how they describe the Volt:
“The Chevy Volt is a 4-5 passenger Sedan that should get around 50 MPG and cost $30,000-35,000.”
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (6:39 pm)Is it just me?
Nearly all of the new EV and EREV are belly dragging coupe and family sedans. I realize that lifting the body 2 inches will possibly hurt roll over ratings. And that raising the frame a little will result in a 1/2 mpg loss of ground effect. But, let’s consider real world driving.
GM, and others, give us a few higher riding models please.
=D~
Jul 21st, 2009 (6:50 pm)Motorcycle dealers have been selling bikes for years with a no test ride policy. A dealer will occasionally have a test ride day. The local Harley Davidson dealer had his two years ago.
I have owned 6 new motorcycles. Didn’t test ride any before buying.
2 Honda, 1 Suzuki, 3 Kawasaki
Volt sales via eBay is very doable.
=D~
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:14 pm)It’s simply supply and demand. Dealers could turn the other cheek and make OEM’s really happy by selling at invoice and pretending they don’t see the demand.
But Joe customer who wants his Camaro right now is going to offer salespeople more money to keep Jim down the street from getting the car Joe just has to have.
The dealer could say no, I’m not taking your money. But the money will be spent one way or another. If the dealers don’t take it, Joe the buyer will get tired of getting bruises from constantly being tapped on the shoulder by people saying I’ll give you x dollars over what you paid for that Camaro or TDI or whatever the hot flavor is, that the dealers are too dumb or too nice or too constrained by OEM’s to take the money that buyers demand they sell the cars for.
I once tried to sell my home for a reasonable price in a hot market. The multiple would be buyers told me no way, and went on to submit higher and higher offers. That’s how supply and demand works.
I tried to sell the house to a nice family that turned out to be headed by a speculator who wanted to add a bedroom and sell the house ASAP for a much higher price.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:22 pm)Test drives?
What would happen if each dealer has one Volt as a test driver? He would get sales offers all day long. Wouldn’t be surprised to see $60,000 from a few test drivers. What is the dealer going to say, “No”?
Will be interesting to see how GM moves forward with this.
BTW: The performance model of the Volt won’t be called the Volt SS or Super Vee. It will be called The Jolt.
=D~
Jul 21st, 2009 (7:38 pm)I work in the energy field. I have seen many reputable studies that show nuclear is cheaper (all costs included) than wind or solar and of coarse with our current fleet of plants operating at around 98% efficiency, a nuclear installation produces far more power than an equivalent wind or solar installation.
Rancho Seco should have been built and with the population growing, CA should be planning several more Rancho Secos.
I see that all of the 25+ planned new nuclear units are near the East coast from NY down to FL and over to TX. In the future, as energy prices and the populations grow, these markets will have the cheapest electricity because they are installing the most reliable source of base load power.
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:43 pm)I love this stuff…really, this makes me smile broadly..you should see me smiling
Jul 21st, 2009 (8:45 pm)We used to have power brokers who could decide to put their foot down when things looked too idiotic for their own good.
Now we have term limits that shuffle politicians around from position to position. The new guys don’t have a clue how to get things to work, and the old guys work for the same narrow and like thinking groups from one job to the next. It’s like trading career politicians for resident carpetbaggers.
Term limits means: We want to elect the guys we want, and everybody else’s guys suck so much that we don’t trust ‘em to be in office for very long.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:06 pm)A bit of a sidetrack but, an AllCarsElectric article states that Nissan may use wireless charging in its upcoming all electric vehicles.
“It is possible they could design the wireless charging technology to be built into roads and highways and allow electric cars to continuously charge while moving down the road.” – from the article.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:08 pm)Hey Capn’ sorry to hear things are not running on all cylinders. Hopefully, the economy can slug out of this drowning pool, and jobs return.
Our company implemented a “temporary” across the board paycut, end of 401k match, and no incentive plan payouts, early this year. Now, they are saying, it looks like these “temporary” reductions will continue at least through FY2010. I know it’s better than the alternative, but at some point, the alternative becomes more attractive.
Hold on and good luck!
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:10 pm)Sure they can, but it won’t happen in this century.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:14 pm)Me et al,
Gerrymandering is a term that describes the deliberate rearrangement of the boundaries of congressional districts to influence the outcome of elections.
Bifurcated: to divide into two branches or parts
JICYWW
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:16 pm)So you would by a Volt while living in a location where you can’t get service? I thought the reason for the select dealer restriction was to allow for training and equipping for the volt. I believe that this could be your kicker.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:19 pm)BS. Nuclear is cheaper only if you discount the cost of safe storage of radioactive material till eternity (practically) and the govt subsidy in terms of accident cover.
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/01/nuclear_power.html
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:19 pm)And I thought your analysis of New York was bad. (And we actually had blackouts last summer.) Are we in better or worse shape than California?
And what about DC? I thought they were going to be the first to get Volts?
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:21 pm)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHFDa9efCQU&feature=related
-1
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:25 pm)Hey Nuke,
I would agree that nuclear (say it like Bush would say it..) is less expensive than wind or solar. But, when a wind tower fails, the worst case is that you kill a couple cows grazing underneath it. The worst case scenario for a nuclear accident are not as benign.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:25 pm)I think most first adopters will be aware that it’s a problem. And they’ll act accordingly. The point is in a year or two, GM should roll it out in more places, so it won’t be a problem for long.
Personally, if it were up to me, I’d roll the first volts out out in a number of places as a marketing move. That way they could get maximum exposure to the first adopters. And the car would advertise itself in as many places as possible.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:28 pm)What about all the hot chicks… ?
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:35 pm)I don’t blame the dealers for marking up cars that are in short supply. It’s supply and demand. They have to take losses on losers. So they benefit from winners. Besides, with a hot car like the Camaro–most people don’t want to wait. So why shouldn’t the person willing to pay the most, get it the soonest?
My problem is when they charge mark-ups for orders. Well, it’s not actually my problem. I don’t mind comparison shopping, and I’m pretty sure I can find a dealer who won’t do that to me. (Although with the Volt they might all do it–we’ll see.) But it is or should be a problem for GM since it costs them future sales. At the very least, the dealers should offer a two-tiered waiting list.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:42 pm)I agree. I can live without getting gen 1. It’s more important to me that the car be a success. I may have to buy a Ford Fusion Hybrid in the meantime, but it’s not the end of the world.
Jul 21st, 2009 (9:45 pm)Looks like GM folks read the forum here……
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:07 pm)Future news .. December 25th 2010.
NGMCO, manufacturers of the Chevy Volt, have announced the 1000th Volt having rolled off the assembly line. These vehicles are unavailable to the public as premium priced pre-orders were taken from high profile entertainers, world leaders, and executives. NGMCO will be selling the Volt at dealerships via internet menu starting in April of 2011.
The vehicles manufactured between 01/11 to 03/11 will be offered to the faithful who have been following the development of the electric Volt through Dr. Dennis’ GM Volt dot com web site. Lyle’s waiting list has been years in the making. Contributors will be offered a Volt at the $40,000 MSRP. These sales will be completed on a one per person basis and will involve 15,000 Volt cars.
NGMCO and GM Next thanks you all.
=D~
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:11 pm)My impression of this post is that GM Wants to experiment with cutting the dealer out of the equation by using eBay Motors to sell the early VOLTs. When it gets closer to November 2010, I’m sure they will change their mind on this plan, or seriously modify it to include dealers for the purpose of having showrooms to demo the vehicle. Otherwise, only the readers of a few blogs will ever know about the car. Sure, you guys would by a VOLT without a test drive, but John Q. Citizen is gonna want to see and drive it, or they will head over to Honda or Toyota in a New York minute.
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:24 pm)George Jetson:
Rosie has mixed too much motor oil in your coffee!
Your plan can’t work. His majesty Obama has decreed that there must be millions of VOLTs on the road by the end of his second term (if he hasn’t bankrupted the country before his second term starts). If GM doesn’t use dealers then they will build FEWER cars so that they are not stuck with excess inventory, which is the role of the dealerships.
That would increase prices AND you can be sure GM will not give you a discount even if the stock is 18 months old.
Give it up. Won’t happen.
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:27 pm)That is certainly a problem with a “staged” rollout but the biggest downside, IMO, is that it will delay mass adoption of this new disruptive technology. 10K early Volts spread around the country (Canada too, hosers) with lead to a lot more ready customers for the next 60k Volts. GM has stated on numerous ocassions, that educating the consumer will be one of the biggest challenges for the Volt. While this is a legitimate issue, I believe it has been a little overblown in a sense. Plenty of people will be reticent to accept this new technology. Most of them and others will have difficulty grasping what Voltec is and means to automotive transportation. They will, however, understand well enough once they ride in one or talk with a friend that has or that owns one. I think understanding, at least enough understanding, will come quickly with these closer personal experiences. This is why the Volts should be sold as far and as wide as quickly as possible.
The Volts on the road will be the best marketers and educators.
+1
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:30 pm)lmao… “eliminate a ton of jobs”
Jul 21st, 2009 (10:53 pm)Have you shopped at a car dealer? Most peole would prefer a root canal. The car salesmen jokes didn’t come from the ether. My apologies CorvetteGuy, but my dealership experiences have mildly annoying at best and so have those that I’ve heard about from people I know.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (12:04 am)Test drives?
What would happen if each dealer has one Volt as a test driver? He would get sales offers all day long. Wouldn’t be surprised to see $60,000 from a few test drivers. What is the dealer going to say, “No”?
____________________
Exactly. Another reason why dealers don’t usually have test drive cars handy for the hottest new vehicles. People usually drive ‘em then take ‘em home.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (12:28 am)He actually said they would try eBay in “California”! You also mentioned LA which is in California and you said what’s the point of an internet sale if you still have to go to your local dealer, which in this case is in California, and eBay adds no value to the process…Am I comparing apples to oranges or am I just missing on this one altogether?
Jul 22nd, 2009 (12:46 am)I agree with nuclearboy, I think it’s not meeting demand that causes problems. Once they can catch up to demand those problems will go away and folks can buy their Volts any way they want to through any sales channel at better prices.
Until then my fear is pent up demand. When new hot cars come out pent up demand drives people into a frenzy that allows them to say, OK I’ll pay the insane amount on the dealer sticker and completely ignore the OEM price printed right next to it.
And the Volt may may have to carry the pent up demand for a new model, and a never before seen propulsion system and the perception of hotness generated by the two facts, existing in a just released vehicle that few others will have for a long time due to it’s limited release.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (12:51 am)“The best solution is to beat the dealers into shape.”
Set pricing may be the way to go, it took some educating of customers to get it up to speed for Saturn, although beating folks into shape sometimes leads to prison terms.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (1:06 am)Although that tact might give the “New GM” a certain type of “street cred” with the dealers.
For example. “Hi this is George, the regional GM dealer rep calling from Folsom Prison in California. I’m really disappointed in some of the pricing issues I’ve been hearing about. Of course due to my current residency status I won’t be seeing you in person, but if this disturbing trend continues, I’ll have no choice but to call in a few markers and send a couple of the fellas by to have a chat with you.”
Jul 22nd, 2009 (1:12 am)Whhooo hooo, wait a second 15,000 Volts, what about the other 33,0000 of us on the waiting list?
Jul 22nd, 2009 (1:31 am)Clipper has been in Paso Robles for years, constantly hiring until the credit crunch. Don’t know about now though. ( http://www.clipperwind.com/ )
Jul 22nd, 2009 (1:46 am)I’m actually in the high desert. If that next in the line of projected apocalypses, apocalypse’, apocali or what have you, puts me on beachfront property, at least I already have plenty of sand!
-1
Jul 22nd, 2009 (1:59 am)Oops at first I thought Carpinteria, then Paso. Silly me for thinking I was wrong
Jul 22nd, 2009 (2:04 am)Yeah Statik, you are truly the bad analysis dude
“California has no oil.” ????? Google Bakersfield.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (2:07 am)Are you kidding? Those wind turbines are massive. At commercial scale they often start at about a million $ apiece installed.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (2:25 am)Beverly Hills High School had a very profitable oil well for years. It finally had to be removed because parents claimed the cumulative effects of breathing the fumes might lower the children’s SAT scores. And should that happen the School Board wouldn’t have to consist of spelling bee winners and film school grads to know the true meaning of the words “big trouble.”
Jul 22nd, 2009 (5:52 am)The difference is that Nuclear is one of the most regulated industries in our country. There have been less than 10 total commercial plant deaths mostly industrial type accidents.
Coal usage, on the other hand, occasionally ends up killing miners, truck drivers, etc. etc. Pick any big industry and you will find that people get killed in accidents every year. Not true for Nuclear however.
Accidents at nuclear plants are rare and usually benign compared to accidents at petro chemical plants.
In addition, the fears of nuclear plant accidents are far overblown by the public. Many still beleive that Three Mile Island killed people and caused massive cancer rates because that is what we are lead to believe. The truth is, no one died and the cancer statistics showed zero change.. Nothing.. This was our worst accident and plants are now an order of magnitude safer.
The new plants that are going through review now at the NRC (AP1000, ESBWR, EPR, et..) are another order of magnitude safer.
Fear of Nuclear is simply ignorance of the true risk. If you want to study this look up probabalistic risk analysis (PRA) and look at the risks of nuclear deaths compared to other things. Nuclear is far down on the risk scale. We should ban driving, McDonalds, and swimming pools before we worry about nuclear.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (5:56 am)It could be a car that belongs to GM, just for demos…so that they cant sell it. Part of the marketing budget.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (5:58 am)it MAY be a severe drag penalty, so that you lose 20 miles of highway range.. still interested?.. how about lifting shocks so that you can temporarily raise the car..
Jul 22nd, 2009 (6:11 am)“My problem is when they charge mark-ups for orders. ”
They have an allocated number of Volts that they can order, if another customers offers them more money even for an ordered car why should they not go with that customer?
The law of supply and demand is not the problem here, the problem is the nasty behavior on all sides..
Jul 22nd, 2009 (6:16 am)“You want good will and good PR? Sell the Volt at the dealership and use what ever leverage you can to force the dealer to sell the Volt to anybody (no games or contests) at MSRP! ”
The dealers did risk their money to buy Volts for resale.. why should the manufacturer dictate what price they will be sold at?
Perhaps for good will GM should increase the MSRP by 5% and then strictly enforce it.. with no negotiations allowed. The Saturn model.
+1
Jul 22nd, 2009 (6:21 am)I guess I should have read the comments down a little farther before posting my comments below. Would have saved my fingers some work since I nearly duplicated everything you wrote. Clearly, I concur.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (7:30 am)eliminating jobs is a side effect of the new business model that would go VERY far. internet shopping has become HUGE. why not order exactly what you want instead of being forced to order from what the local dealers have on their lot.
i went to no less than seven dealers when i bought my avalanche looking for the best one at the lowest cost. each one said they would give a discount if you bought from their lot and charge if not. i was pretty pissed at the time, i had lots of extra cash and wanted every option. there was only two in the area and neither was the color i wanted.
internet ordering would be one of the greatest things. you can already do it with a bunch of other car manufacturers.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (7:32 am)Apparently people have strong opinions of their home states, lol. Go figure.
The ONLY thing I was stating is if the early Volt states were net energy positive or negative and what their short tem outlooks and pricing were (specifically California and New York) …in reference to Britta Gross’ representation that early states were being chosen on a ‘plug-in readiness’ basis, whether or not ‘the grid’ was in good shape, with ‘green’ infrastructure behind it.
I agree Laura, New York is better than California…but that still doesn’t change the fact they are woefully short (and also predicting shortfalls), along with the highest price per kW in the USA (outside of Hawaii).
Jeffhre, agreed California has oil, and specifically Bakersfield, but like power, it is disproportional to the amount drawn/required.
Bakersfield is about 9% of the countries production, unfortunately America has to import 2/3rds of its oil. So Bakersfield only produces 3% of what Americas draws, while California requires somewhere around 15%.
Bakersfield (well, Kern county)specifically produce about 550,000 barrels per days, 68% of the states total of about 800,000 per month.
http://www.bakersfieldchamber.org/section.asp/csasp/DepartmentID.537/cs/SectionID.1171/csasp.html
Again, California has a lot of nice programs here, they actually retarded the curve for demand, and put a lot of programs in that at least in the short term peaked out total demand.
Sidenote: As a state California uses more gas than any country in the world (except China…and the UD of course)
Jul 22nd, 2009 (7:44 am)While there might be very good things regarding using ebay for the first Volt sales, there could be some unexpected bad things about that too.
Possibly from GM’s perspectives, what the market will bear for a Volt may be a double-edged sword, and I think it may be a good idea that if they are going to do that, do it in a very gradual manner.
There are so many unique ways that the process can be corrupted. Telling us all about safeguards to prevent the process from becoming corrupted would help a lot.
Having a little more information published about how that process was made to be fair would go far to prevent a bad set of public perceptions.
Selling only ten Volts per quarter this way might be a way to restrict compromises to integrity.
Selling this few Volts might do some good things for public perception regarding its value, and thereby cut out a significant amount of wasted time by unreasonably cheap-minded people who may otherwise offer, say, only 20,000 dollars only for it, when there are a high number of respectful customers.
OTOH, there may be a risk that the image of the Volt may become too elitist if the price goes far above the $40,000 mark (excluding the extended “bumper to bumper” extended warranty, which it would be absolutely unwise not to buy).
Not setting a price may begin to “burn out” the public and enthusiasts. Not setting a price fairly soon may have unrecoverable effects on all buyers, and, have GM be seen has being excessively indecisive on price.
A corporation is a financial machine. But alas, we buyers are only human. We need the price to be set soon, so that we do not have our financial targets move around too much.
While the higher we aim, the higher we land, I do not think GM wants dedicated people to finally begin to consider the term: “Oh, just forget it”, because it no longer appears that a cost-goal-post is not on an ebay roulette wheel. That’s what I would consider to be unfair, if the cost-goal changes unreasonably.
The costs ought to be known by now.
Does anyone else think that it’s time to set the price?
Jul 22nd, 2009 (7:48 am)Anywhoo…lol.
I’m actually not even suggesting California and New York shouldn’t get early Volts. I’m not mentioning that to start some kind of grassroots, no Volt for NY or Caliornia movement. (=
My opinion is actually the opposite, that they should get the Volts first. This all started out of the fact that GM was trying to tout some kind of ‘plug-in readiness’ program, with PR events in front of city halls that put plugs in their parking lots, or give tax breaks, or buy fleet cars off of GM.
Basically, GM is representing, that the places that were good, solid green producers, with stable grids and strong outlooks would be getting the early Volts…when clearly it is based on the market itself in relation to where they can sell the most cars. They are basically saying to anyone out there with some money to spend, or publicity to give, “hey…if you want to prostitute yourself for a little face time, we are here and ready to go”
Personally, if I had to choose specific states the Volt was available, I would chose California and New York, but for the reasons I mentioned, and not some weird bizzaro world logic. That those states have busted systems, scrambling to find a path out. And the Volt can be part of that solution, albeit a very small, insignificant part…but a symbol of change nonetheless.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (9:14 am)with only 10k being offered to sell, they won”t have the problem you are referring to.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (9:22 am)Statik,
I believe you are on the right track. Some of us do get a little defensive when our locality is called out for scrutiny. I know I do. We must first recognize that everyplace on God’s green earth has a fair share of problems. Some are similar to other location’s problems and others are unique to it. Some places are blessed with a core group of people dedicated to overcoming their problems while other places have core groups that just pile on more problems and want to blame others for their short comings. We are all human in that respect.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (12:02 pm)If they do it, I’m outta the game. I can wait as long as it takes for the price to become realistic.
They can overcome even my Chevy loyalty if they try hard enough.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (12:46 pm)I would be curious to see how the dealer can keep “One” Volt charged up enough for all the test drivers.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (12:51 pm)The down side to E-Bay instead of the dealer is the guy buying a volt – picking it up and taking off without the education about the car and its requirements that the dealer provides (especially with this car).
Downside – the guy has problems – battery runs down and nobody told him anything – then he will Bad Mouth the Car on E-bay for all to see. This could hurt GM a lot.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (1:01 pm)I was referring to Camaro orders actually. On the Volt, I agree. As long as there’s a limit, a mark-up makes sense. But there is no theoretical limit to Camaros. GM will probably produce roughly 100,000 the first year. And dealers are charging mark-ups to order them! If I were GM, I’d have a huge problem with that.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (4:23 pm)I might buy it without a test drive, but my wife never will in this life or the next. So I think you are quite right on that score.
Jul 22nd, 2009 (10:06 pm)They should have been auctioning their concept show cars a long time ago, not the production cars.
NPNS!
Jul 23rd, 2009 (3:08 pm)[...] the answer to all of those questions is yes. In an interview with GM-Volt.com, Chevrolet Brand Manager Ed Peper [...]
Jul 31st, 2009 (7:14 pm)I think this is BRILLIANT!!!!
The amount of media attention they will garner would be in the millions of $$$.
And instead of selling the first cars at say $45,000 to people who got connections. It’d be on the free market and many would sell for over a $100,000. It could make the first 100 or so cars, which would be unprofitable in normal sales, profitable.
If I were GM I would do it this way. I would serialize each car. The first 100 commercially sold Volts. Each would have a #xx designation.
GM can’t sell direct… so have a contest with their dealerships. Two dealers from each state would get 2 cars to sell. 2×50 = 100.
Aug 10th, 2009 (4:58 am)EBay, GM set to start car-selling trial Tuesday 08/11/09
EBay, GM expected to start trial program to sell new cars through online marketplace
GM CEO Fritz Henderson said in July that the company was working on an experiment that would let eBay users in California bid on vehicles or buy them at a fixed price. Dealers were to distribute the cars. At the time, no deal had been completed, though.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/EBay-GM-set-to-start-apf-84820375.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=4&asset=&ccode=
=D~
Aug 15th, 2009 (8:22 pm)Local eBay users have some shiny new products to bid on: General Motors’ vehicles. Hundreds of GM dealers across California will let consumers haggle over the prices of new cars and trucks through the Web-based marketplace
Chevy Cobalt ~ buy it now ~ $14,580
http://chevy.ebay.com/
=D~