Comments on: Driving the MINI E Electric Car: The First 1200 Miles http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/08/driving-the-mini-e-electric-car-the-first-1200-miles/ Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:53:37 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: John Avitable http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/08/driving-the-mini-e-electric-car-the-first-1200-miles/#comment-135719 John Avitable Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:39:34 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1749#comment-135719 Okay, so I would like to ask a stupid question. I understand that there was an issue with the charger before BMW could release it without it being UL listed. Why aren't the chargers integrated straight into the car? It seems to me like it would make more sense, not to mention that it would really suck if you were caught somewhere without your charger. Also, I'm not sure how the home charger gets connected, but I do theatrical lighting so I often find myself near a rather powerful 3-phase connection which to me, seems like it should probably charge pretty quickly. Okay, so I would like to ask a stupid question. I understand that there was an issue with the charger before BMW could release it without it being UL listed. Why aren’t the chargers integrated straight into the car? It seems to me like it would make more sense, not to mention that it would really suck if you were caught somewhere without your charger. Also, I’m not sure how the home charger gets connected, but I do theatrical lighting so I often find myself near a rather powerful 3-phase connection which to me, seems like it should probably charge pretty quickly.

]]> By: ZR http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/08/driving-the-mini-e-electric-car-the-first-1200-miles/#comment-128312 ZR Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:45:59 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1749#comment-128312 Hi, first time poster. The problem is not so much the connection. The problem is the grid capability. Which grid today is in a shape to handle hundreds or thousands (and eventually millions) of cars needing these types of power requirements? The picture you provide proves Dave G’s point. Quite clearly the grid can handle very few of these types “fast charges”. And then add in the strain of these “fast charges” turning on and then off hundreds of times a day. Quite clearly “fast charging” is not an option with-out some sort of buffer / electric reservoir separating the grid and the “fast charger”. And that’s why Better Place hasn’t got much to worry about “fast charges” making swapping obsolete, any time soon. Hi, first time poster.

The problem is not so much the connection. The problem is the grid capability. Which grid today is in a shape to handle hundreds or thousands (and eventually millions) of cars needing these types of power requirements? The picture you provide proves Dave G’s point. Quite clearly the grid can handle very few of these types “fast charges”. And then add in the strain of these “fast charges” turning on and then off hundreds of times a day.

Quite clearly “fast charging” is not an option with-out some sort of buffer / electric reservoir separating the grid and the “fast charger”. And that’s why Better Place hasn’t got much to worry about “fast charges” making swapping obsolete, any time soon.

]]> By: liion http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/08/driving-the-mini-e-electric-car-the-first-1200-miles/#comment-126033 liion Tue, 14 Jul 2009 07:56:03 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1749#comment-126033 The Mitsu IMiev claims even better efficiency : 100 miles on 16kWh and 63hp (certainly only urban cycle) :6.5miles/kWh ! On the other hand the car has been designed from scratch for EV application. 70 miles for the E-mini is if you use it at max power I guess, another comment says it can get 127miles/ charge which seems more realistic for 35kWh. difficult to compare ... The Mitsu IMiev claims even better efficiency : 100 miles on 16kWh and 63hp (certainly only urban cycle) :6.5miles/kWh ! On the other hand the car has been designed from scratch for EV application.

70 miles for the E-mini is if you use it at max power I guess, another comment says it can get 127miles/ charge which seems more realistic for 35kWh. difficult to compare …

]]> By: EVO http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/08/driving-the-mini-e-electric-car-the-first-1200-miles/#comment-125858 EVO Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:32:24 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1749#comment-125858 "as you would not want to attract attention to the sound of your generator running while parked unintended in some neighborhoods." So GM intends to have a "gansta" mode? That would be blingy. “as you would not want to attract attention to the sound of your generator running while parked unintended in some neighborhoods.”

So GM intends to have a “gansta” mode? That would be blingy.

]]> By: EVO http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/08/driving-the-mini-e-electric-car-the-first-1200-miles/#comment-125857 EVO Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:30:16 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1749#comment-125857 A 1 kWh genset is underpowered and not recommended for high power cell recharging in any modern electric vehicle application that I'm familiar with. If you were a cultural anthropology major instead an EE, you would figure out that any choice involves tradeoffs, extra weight, space taken and complexity among them in this case. Having said that, I suspect the Volt engineers are actually trying to optimize their EREV app, with the intrinsically superior off the line torque, near linear acceleration and quiet operation of electric drive foremost in mind. A 1 kWh genset is underpowered and not recommended for high power cell recharging in any modern electric vehicle application that I’m familiar with. If you were a cultural anthropology major instead an EE, you would figure out that any choice involves tradeoffs, extra weight, space taken and complexity among them in this case.

Having said that, I suspect the Volt engineers are actually trying to optimize their EREV app, with the intrinsically superior off the line torque, near linear acceleration and quiet operation of electric drive foremost in mind.

]]> By: liion http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/08/driving-the-mini-e-electric-car-the-first-1200-miles/#comment-125722 liion Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:22:54 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1749#comment-125722 Exactly! When we will think about it ten years from now, we will remember how impractical it was to refuel a gas tank compared to the fully automated fast charge station. Look, you don't even have to get out of your car! Exactly! When we will think about it ten years from now, we will remember how impractical it was to refuel a gas tank compared to the fully automated fast charge station. Look, you don’t even have to get out of your car!

]]> By: liion http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/08/driving-the-mini-e-electric-car-the-first-1200-miles/#comment-125721 liion Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:10:33 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1749#comment-125721 this reminds me of car tested by magazines where they claim some really low mileage and when I actually drive the car I get nearly twice...either I'm a very cautious driver or the testers have an issue with their right foot! this reminds me of car tested by magazines where they claim some really low mileage and when I actually drive the car I get nearly twice…either I’m a very cautious driver or the testers have an issue with their right foot!

]]> By: liion http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/08/driving-the-mini-e-electric-car-the-first-1200-miles/#comment-125720 liion Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:01:29 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1749#comment-125720 if the real range of the mini is 60 miles then it's pretty badly optimized for a 35kWh battery (or the battery isn't really 35kWh). The rule of thumb is ~4miles / kWh, which should translate into 140miles. I guess when car makers really switch to EVs they will have to think about making lighter, more efficient cars (the Tesla is based on the Lotus Elise, which body is under 1500lbs...) if the real range of the mini is 60 miles then it’s pretty badly optimized for a 35kWh battery (or the battery isn’t really 35kWh). The rule of thumb is ~4miles / kWh, which should translate into 140miles.
I guess when car makers really switch to EVs they will have to think about making lighter, more efficient cars (the Tesla is based on the Lotus Elise, which body is under 1500lbs…)

]]> By: liion http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/08/driving-the-mini-e-electric-car-the-first-1200-miles/#comment-125719 liion Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:53:35 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1749#comment-125719 Larry, sorry to say this, but if your commute is 96 miles a day, you should maybe reconsider where you live before thinking about mileage...you would save gas and a good part of your life spent in a car! Larry, sorry to say this, but if your commute is 96 miles a day, you should maybe reconsider where you live before thinking about mileage…you would save gas and a good part of your life spent in a car!

]]> By: Neil Cox http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/08/driving-the-mini-e-electric-car-the-first-1200-miles/#comment-125590 Neil Cox Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:54:20 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1749#comment-125590 I'll attempt a summary of this thread. The Volt will be a series hybrid. That means you run on battery the first 30 or 40 miles. Then a gasoline powered generator starts running to prevent the battery from further discharge. I presume the generator runs until the battery is recharged about half way. The driver likely has some control over when the generator starts and stops, as you would not want to attract attention to the sound of your generator running while parked unintended in some neighborhoods. The voltage of each cell is monitored by the computer. When one cell drops to about zero volts for about a second or more the generator starts recharging the battery which has 100 cells, perhaps a few more than 100. The voltage is 332 volts or 400 volts. Perhaps GM is undecided, or 400 volts is required for fast charging the battery and 332 volts is about the voltage, just before the generator starts to recharge. It is also possible that there will be a 332 volt model and a higher performance 400 volt model. The range is about 100,000 miles, by filling the gas tank at about 500 mile intervals. The Volt will have a lot of advantages over the competition. Disadvantages are the gasoline will get stale if you almost always charge before the generator starts to run. You will need to be towed due to some kinds of mechanical, electronic or electrical failure, while a parallel hybrid has at least a shot at limping to a repair shop on either the battery or the gasoline motor. The Mini Cooper is electric only that seats two persons with very little space for luggage. That means you need a tow truck, when the computer decides further driving will damage the battery. A hybrid or electric vehicle with higher voltage can possibly recharge a mini Cooper enough to drive a few more miles, but this is dangerous unless you have the proper jumper cable. Please correct my errors. Neil I’ll attempt a summary of this thread. The Volt will be a series hybrid. That means you run on battery the first 30 or 40 miles. Then a gasoline powered generator starts running to prevent the battery from further discharge. I presume the generator runs until the battery is recharged about half way. The driver likely has some control over when the generator starts and stops, as you would not want to attract attention to the sound of your generator running while parked unintended in some neighborhoods. The voltage of each cell is monitored by the computer. When one cell drops to about zero volts for about a second or more the generator starts recharging the battery which has 100 cells, perhaps a few more than 100. The voltage is 332 volts or 400 volts. Perhaps GM is undecided, or 400 volts is required for fast charging the battery and 332 volts is about the voltage, just before the generator starts to recharge. It is also possible that there will be a 332 volt model and a higher performance 400 volt model. The range is about 100,000 miles, by filling the gas tank at about 500 mile intervals. The Volt will have a lot of advantages over the competition. Disadvantages are the gasoline will get stale if you almost always charge before the generator starts to run. You will need to be towed due to some kinds of mechanical, electronic or electrical failure, while a parallel hybrid has at least a shot at limping to a repair shop on either the battery or the gasoline motor.
The Mini Cooper is electric only that seats two persons with very little space for luggage. That means you need a tow truck, when the computer decides further driving will damage the battery. A hybrid or electric vehicle with higher voltage can possibly recharge a mini Cooper enough to drive a few more miles, but this is dangerous unless you have the proper jumper cable.
Please correct my errors. Neil

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